Keri Hilson Inspiring Comeback In Music After 15 Years & Overcoming Depression

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
I would pray a certain prayer that always got answered,

(00:02):
Well what is it? That prayer was something like, if
this is not who and where I'm supposed to stay
or be, let me know, knock me down if you
have to. I'll know, I'll hear you. I'll accept that
it is you. I'll know that it was you, and

(00:24):
I can walk away with the knowing as opposed to
guessing or fear or anything else. Right, And so I
would just pray that, like, just knock me down if
you have to, please take it to rip it out
of my hands, if you must, wow, Because there was
a time when it was like that would have had
to be the case. I prayed that prayer and I
was like, I mean, it just all started revealing itself.

Speaker 2 (00:54):
This episode of Viral Podcast is powered by boost Mobile.

Speaker 3 (00:58):
All right, guys, here we go. We got Rammy nominated
songwriter and artist. She has crafted song for Britney Spears,
Mary J.

Speaker 2 (01:04):
Blish Year, The pussy Cat Dolls, Chris Brown, so many
more before she delivered.

Speaker 3 (01:08):
Her own smash hits, which she has. But she has
taken a fifteen year hiatus and she is back.

Speaker 1 (01:14):
In these streets.

Speaker 2 (01:15):
Well you know, yes, back in the streets getting ready
for a new project, and her return is centered around
new priorities of integrity, freedom and purpose.

Speaker 3 (01:27):
Please welcome the amazing Carrie. I'll send to the edge
Martina darl thank you.

Speaker 1 (01:31):
Hi carry hi Angie.

Speaker 3 (01:33):
Fifteen years is not a small little hiatus. God look amazing.

Speaker 1 (01:37):
Thank you.

Speaker 2 (01:37):
Because when you would say normally to someone the fifth
after they took a fifteen year hiatus.

Speaker 1 (01:42):
They might look very different.

Speaker 3 (01:43):
They might look very different. I feel like you look
exactly the same. Really I do.

Speaker 1 (01:46):
I'll take it.

Speaker 3 (01:47):
I'll take it.

Speaker 1 (01:48):
I don't feel the same, you know, and I don't
feel that I look the same either.

Speaker 3 (01:51):
What feels different, ah, from whatever, from.

Speaker 2 (01:55):
Whatever our sit down was, fifteen years or sixteen years ago,
whenever it was.

Speaker 3 (01:58):
What feels different?

Speaker 1 (02:00):
So much the world? Yeah that's number one the world.
But you as a woman, Me as a woman, I
feel older. I feel like my bones, my hips don't
move the way you feel. Yeah, I mean on stage
like not wait a minute, now, wait a minute, this
is the same routine I've been doing all this time.
I need some like lubricant. I can tell to stretch her.

(02:22):
I mean I always stretch before I go on stage.
But now I gotta stretch a little longer.

Speaker 3 (02:25):
For sure.

Speaker 1 (02:28):
I just feel I do feel a lot more mature.
I feel a lot more like self aware than I
was then. Very comfortable, comfortable, very confident. Like all of
that is really sounds cliche, but it's the truth.

Speaker 3 (02:42):
No, it really is true.

Speaker 2 (02:43):
That's definitely with fifteen by the way, it's not after
fifteen years, especially right, especially when you think about taking time.
There's so much pressure when you have some success, right,
it's like, uh, I'm sure the label people were like,
what's next, come on, hurry up, and so tell me
about what that moment? Was there a moment? Was it
a decision or did it just kind of happen this break?

(03:06):
Was it like intentional or was it circumstance?

Speaker 1 (03:09):
Like what was the thing? It was many things. It
was like an avalanche effect for me just wanting to
take I think I said six months off, I was
coming out of an eleven year breakup. And that wasn't
the only catalyst. I was alsowithstanding a lot of professional
blows to the in the public eye, and it was

(03:32):
just heavy and it was at the height of like
pretty good rock and then one night stand and like
I had immense success, right, and I was like at
the top of the mountain as far as like who
I'm being named amongst the stages and the carpets and
the you know, the places that I've been invited and
all the things. Right, So it was like my dream

(03:53):
was absolutely like unfolding before my very eyes, but there
were so many other things pulling me down, and so
it's a breakup. It was, you know, being forced to
do things I didn't want to do, like you know,
me having to stand proud and carpets and sometimes be
taunted by the interviewer or you know, if I'm at
radio or if I'm met you know, on a carpet

(04:14):
or whatever, and just feeling like, oh my god, I'm
like I felt like public enemy number one. You know,
it felt like that for me, and I'm like, this
is not how I saw it going.

Speaker 2 (04:24):
And it's so funny because when you came in too,
that I was like, she's talked about it so much.
It's probably not something we'll go down, but it just
feels like an elephant that it's like, is this because
of this one moment?

Speaker 1 (04:34):
Yeah, it sounds so small, but like when you're the
person living it. It's really really you can't escape it. Yes,
I'm in the center of it. I'm the the epicenter
of I had to stand alone in it in something
that I didn't choose or didn't decide.

Speaker 2 (04:51):
Just so I get the full thing I want to do.
There was a there was a song you put out.
You said you were covering up for people about this song,
but it sparked.

Speaker 3 (05:00):
Was it? Was it even a diss record? Was it
even that it was?

Speaker 1 (05:03):
I guess so yeah, I mean that's what they called it,
So I guess that's what it is.

Speaker 2 (05:09):
Okay, So this moment happens, Yeah, you didn't feel good.
Did you feel good about it or not?

Speaker 3 (05:12):
No?

Speaker 1 (05:13):
No, no, you didn't feel good. Moment didn't write like
the worst parts. I had to like patch it up.
I was literally threatened, not physically, but professionally threatened to
do it. And it's like I remember saying, I'm a
like I was an athlete. When I was coming into fame,

(05:34):
I was also coming off the court, so I was
I just remember arguing, like, I'm a finesse player. I
don't have to play dirty, I don't have to say
anything about anybody else. I can put my blinders on
and win the game with fundamentals. That's not this shock job,
you know, doing things for shock value and belittling another

(05:55):
black woman or any other black or any other women period.
Like that's not who I am. And I definitely tried.
I tried to fight. I guess I didn't have enough
or it would truth be told. It's there's power dynamics involved,
you know, when you aren't in control of your career
and you're not the only cook in the kitchen and

(06:15):
there are cooks like you're just a sous chef, you
know what I mean, just kind of it's really what
it was. You just have you have no you're especially
when it's presented in a certain way, you don't have
a choice.

Speaker 3 (06:25):
Let's just say it.

Speaker 2 (06:26):
Let's just even say And it's what's more fascinating interesting
to me just as a woman going through that. It's
like we all in our lives, not every moment is
our best decision.

Speaker 1 (06:37):
That's true to you know what I'm saying.

Speaker 2 (06:38):
We all do things that you know, if you think
about your life ten years ago, you'd be like, oh,
why did I do that?

Speaker 3 (06:43):
That was dumb?

Speaker 2 (06:44):
I shouldn't have did that, Or yeah, that's not my character.
I got a lot of pocket right there. I think
a lot of people will have moments like that in
there less.

Speaker 3 (06:52):
However, go ahead, what we're gonna say.

Speaker 1 (06:54):
When it's your choice, when it's something you chose to do,
it feels different. You wear that different. You can accept it.
You can acknowledge it and come to a place of
acceptance when you're forced into something you don't believe in
or didn't choose to do, or weren't like you didn't
trick yourself like you know, I mean you. That is different.
That is a different kind of regret.

Speaker 3 (07:13):
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(08:22):
So the regret is what that you didn't stand up
for yourself, fight harder or I don't even know what
I could have done to be honest, but yeah, Like
the regret is I.

Speaker 1 (08:31):
Guess not not putting my voice to those words, hearing
that I remember being like shocked, sitting in that studio,
like and the first thing I said was, I'm not
singing that. Let me write something else. I'm not singing
that someone else had written it. I was like, I'm

(08:52):
not saying that. So I ended up like trying to
like change some of the lyrics and it softer.

Speaker 3 (09:01):
Yeah, yeah, you know.

Speaker 1 (09:03):
Because I already had Actually I knew that I had
to write a remix. I knew that I was coming
to the studio. I was on tour, we left tour,
we had a little break, and I was coming and
writing remix to the record. I'm thinking it was about guys.
I'm thinking I'm going to stay on subject, but like
write different verses.

Speaker 2 (09:17):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (09:18):
Song is called turning me on, turning me off, So
that's what I was thinking. So I had pieces that
I wanted. I come in and I'm like, what is this.

Speaker 3 (09:27):
What?

Speaker 1 (09:28):
So I guess it's just the ultimate thing of like
putting my voice on that song. Just I was in teared,
like just not doing it, just not doing it. I
think that was the only choice that I had, and
that was probably the biggest regret.

Speaker 2 (09:46):
I just think that sometimes in our life, whether it
was your I mean, things happen, right, and then I
just think when you're inside of the world and there's
so much energy around it. I just wonder what that
did to you, like when you take time and then
go home.

Speaker 1 (10:01):
Yeah, it's my dream, like I had dreamt about that.

Speaker 3 (10:05):
It does that still?

Speaker 1 (10:06):
Yeah wow?

Speaker 3 (10:08):
Yeah, but what is that that?

Speaker 1 (10:12):
It's you you were leading me to remember, like how
it felt. And all I could think about was me
being a little girl with a karaoke machine and watching
like Star Search and Apollo and like, you know, seeing
people do their Grammy speeches and do all this stuff,

(10:34):
and and also like someone enjoying, like enjoying the people
that you have me talking about, you know what I mean,
being a fan of them. Thank you because thank you. Sorry, No,
it's okay. I didn't expect it.

Speaker 3 (10:49):
I didn't know. I didn't. I didn't either. I just
feel like I feel like that's a moment. It's a moment.

Speaker 2 (10:53):
And so to talk about everything else without pinnacle, that's
what I mean, because it wasn't really my intention to
even talk about it today. But I don't know how
we talk about how you come out of that and
how it affects you in health, because.

Speaker 3 (11:05):
It was a big thing for you. It wasn't a
it wasn't a did.

Speaker 1 (11:09):
It never went away. Wow, And that's probably because I
never talked about it. I never got to I never
wanted to out anybody. I just I really so badly
wanted it to disappear. I wanted it to go away,
and I thought I was kind of told like, if
you just don't say anything, like, it'll disappear. But it
never did. I wore a scarlet letter and in my heart,

(11:31):
in my like, I was like, this is not the
trajectory I saw my career on having to fight something
stupid that I didn't even choose for myself for this long.
So it was just it was awful. It was awful.
I had nightmares like it was awful. And so that's
the other part of stepping away was just I was

(11:51):
depressed when I should have been the happiest.

Speaker 3 (11:53):
Because you had just had so much success.

Speaker 1 (11:56):
Yeah, I was still in this success. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (11:58):
What is the depression rooted?

Speaker 2 (11:59):
Is you feel feel that you let yourself down, You
feel like you let somebody up, like or was it
just abuse, like people attacking you so much?

Speaker 3 (12:05):
Like what was it all that?

Speaker 1 (12:07):
All of that and probably more that you didn't mention that. Uh, yeah,
it's just all of it. I was so disappointed in
the people who I thought understood me, the people who
held my career in their hands. I thought they knew
who I was. I thought they saw and cared who
I am and the integrity that I have and had

(12:30):
respect for all that I had gone through to get
to the point that I was in.

Speaker 3 (12:34):
I thought that to any of the other parties involved
ever apologized to you, really.

Speaker 1 (12:39):
No, I'm being no, No, you're still the bad guy.
I'm still I'm not the bad guy. But they just won't.
There is no level of I did get something that
I guess I accepted as an apology. One of the

(13:05):
guys involved told me something like, I shouldn't have forced
you to be like me. I shouldn't have forced you
to be like me. I shouldn't have forced you to
think like me and to behave and act and react,
you know, like me. And he said I did that

(13:27):
to another artist too, and I see the error in
my ways, you know what I mean. But it was
not like, hey, I'm sorry. There was no like because
I've been trying to tell him, like what I go through,
what I've gone through. And it was actually in twenty
twenty when we were all sat down that I got
even that much, So that was very recent. I withstood
all of that alone, Like, there was so many times

(13:48):
I wanted to cry standing somewhere feeling embarrassed, feeling ashamed
of myself, and I couldn't, like stand tall. I couldn't.
I did physically, but inside I.

Speaker 3 (13:58):
Was just why, Like what was that?

Speaker 1 (14:01):
Just shame? Just shame?

Speaker 3 (14:03):
Really?

Speaker 1 (14:03):
Yeah? I think shame weighs a lot. You have you embarrassment?

Speaker 3 (14:10):
Yeah, oh, I'm sorry.

Speaker 1 (14:14):
Yeah, it is kind me. I can't believe that it
is coming up much, but I think revisiting it, yeah,
recalling it. I don't do that often, so I guess
that's why this comes up every time.

Speaker 3 (14:30):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, no, I get that.

Speaker 1 (14:31):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (14:32):
And people think, I don't know, they think celebrities or
of your published figure.

Speaker 2 (14:36):
There's no you know, whatever the posts are, the comments
are that there's not a human on the other side.

Speaker 1 (14:42):
Right, I'm not a stone pile of feathers.

Speaker 3 (14:45):
And because you came in before, just a girl, you
came in before kind of like the explosion of what
social media is now.

Speaker 1 (14:53):
Yeah, and do you remember you're the reason I got Twitter.
You forced me to get a Twitter because that's on air.

Speaker 3 (14:59):
I did that? You did that?

Speaker 1 (15:00):
Well? No, it was good, it was good.

Speaker 3 (15:02):
Sorry, it was great. I kind of remember that. Yeah,
oh god, wait.

Speaker 1 (15:05):
What was your station?

Speaker 3 (15:07):
What was it?

Speaker 1 (15:07):
Though?

Speaker 3 (15:08):
You tweeted something too, wasn't it? Ah?

Speaker 1 (15:10):
It was probably you you for probably my first, your
first Andree Martinez, that's crazy. Make this page.

Speaker 3 (15:17):
Yeah that was your first tweet. Probably.

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So if you think about it, you're like an early
because what you're experiencing or what not, what you're experiencing
now that you're revisiting now, it's probably something that a
lot of artists who are just starting their career in

(16:22):
this time deal with often. And you were kind of
like straddling the life before that and then the life
of an artist after that.

Speaker 3 (16:31):
You know what I'm saying.

Speaker 1 (16:32):
That's profound, that's real. Yeah, And so you're like, wait
a minute, like just what comes with being a public figure.

Speaker 2 (16:42):
It's great when it's a good thing, but when something
bad happens or a mistake, you consider it to be
a mistake.

Speaker 3 (16:47):
Yeah, for sure.

Speaker 2 (16:48):
When a mistake happens, it's it can be unbearable to
deal with the blowback of that.

Speaker 1 (16:57):
Oh yeah yeah yeah, but you know you find a
way to. Everybody just wants to move forward. We're all
just trying to to to move forward from whatever it
is that you have done. You know, whatever it is
you've gone through.

Speaker 2 (17:13):
Has anybody given you good advice about that? Like, what's
the best I'm imagining? There was some therapy or there
was some deep conversations or yeah, there.

Speaker 1 (17:20):
Was some therapy. I don't even know. I don't know
that there's anything you can say other than like time hels,
you know, time, time and finding that understanding, taking the accountability,
gaining acceptance, and making better decisions, moving moving forward. Like
that's that's really all anyone could say. I think that

(17:41):
would help me.

Speaker 2 (17:43):
I just think they'll also in terms of dealing with
that energy from that side of people like.

Speaker 1 (17:48):
How oh yeah, oh well it did there good things
came of it because I am so thick skined now
oh yeah, oh yeah, oh yeah it did that. It
definitely for you, not for you were not before.

Speaker 3 (18:02):
You didn't have to be a sick.

Speaker 1 (18:04):
Skin more sensitive. Yeah, And like you said, we were
on the cusp of the industry and the way of
being even for fan hood, like we were on the cut.
I was on the cusp of when things were not
salacious really like everyone just was who they were. Everyone
appreciated every artist for what they do and their uniqueness,

(18:25):
and like you know, the design of things. I think
there was like media takeout and like that. There were
a couple really salacious things happening where you could find
like yeah, Windy and certain magazines and the grocery stores
at that time, like that was really it.

Speaker 3 (18:42):
Yeah, no, no, but not to the extent of not
single human has the opportunity to yeah yos.

Speaker 1 (18:50):
Yes, not just a writer, yeah, just yeah, one publication
or whatever. Yeah, and fans like and it commenters and
you know. So we came into that and then you
came in with a bank, came in with a bang,
and there were a lot of opinions. And I was
not as strong. Thicker skin now, much thicker skin, much

(19:13):
thicker skin. And I guess there's always something to be
grateful for an age age. You'll do that too, Yeah,
and the time away learning who I am, understanding growing.

Speaker 2 (19:25):
But wait, so you're going through that time in your
life and there's a break, the breakup is the same
time in.

Speaker 3 (19:29):
Your life time.

Speaker 1 (19:30):
Yeah, eleven years too. So I was seventeen when we
got together. I was twenty eight when we broke up.
And that's like you're developing years, that's like your formative years.
So I needed a break for many reasons.

Speaker 3 (19:43):
Yeah, and you took the.

Speaker 1 (19:45):
Break, took the break. I took the break. It was
like January of was it twenty ten or eleven eleven,
I think, And I thought it'd just be six months.
I was like January, that's a good it's a good
time to you know. And I broke the news and
they were like are you sure, Like wait, are you
taking a.

Speaker 3 (20:03):
Break from a career? Okay, relationship?

Speaker 1 (20:05):
Oh well both yeah, right, I think want to leave
you alone?

Speaker 3 (20:10):
Yeah? I need it.

Speaker 1 (20:11):
I needed I needed some space. I needed some space.

Speaker 2 (20:15):
And when you break the news, you said, I'm going
to take six months like a break from my career.

Speaker 1 (20:22):
And it was just hard to reassemble the team, if
I could put it in, it's just hard to reassemble
after taking a break. Everybody's onto their own stuff, everybody,
so they got to make their money. They still got
to you know, they're passionate people. They're gonna move to
where the passion is and if I kind of, you know,

(20:43):
abandoned that ship, then they're going to find their way.
And it was really difficult.

Speaker 2 (20:54):
Actually, so it's almost like so it's almost like you
were forced to kind of like because one thing, when
an artist is brand new and there's like potential, people come,
oh god, let's sign her, or we got a manager
everybody's like trying to get this because they see this
potential of this artist, who's who's blossoming into something from
being a writer to now artist. But once you've been

(21:17):
out for a while and then you take a break,
it's probably harder to kick start the excitement again.

Speaker 1 (21:24):
Yeah right, yes for them, yes right, yes, which is tough.
I'm now I'm ready. Yeah, it was tough. I was like,
I'm ready now. They're like, I'm going on tour or
I'm working on this project. Maybe after that, you know,
just it was it was tough.

Speaker 3 (21:41):
What was that time?

Speaker 1 (21:42):
Yeah, I was still in a depression. Let's you know,
call it what it is. Yeah. Yeah, I'll be very
honest about that part. I was still in a depression.
But when inspiration hit if and when it hit, I
had to get it out. I had to express. So
that's how that went. So then what did you just
never really happen?

Speaker 3 (22:01):
It never happened.

Speaker 1 (22:02):
The reassembling of the team of the team.

Speaker 2 (22:04):
Wow, but you were still working, you were writing, I
was writing, I wrote for others.

Speaker 1 (22:09):
I I what was.

Speaker 3 (22:11):
The first thing you did coming out of the depression.

Speaker 1 (22:14):
I I me coming out of the depression was probably
only like ten years ago. Oh wow, yeah it was
that long. Yeah, it was long. Yeah, it was like
what does that mean?

Speaker 3 (22:25):
What is your because everybody's definition of depression it's different.

Speaker 1 (22:29):
It was several years. For me, it was dark cloud.
It was just nothing could make me truly happy. It
was hiding. I isolated really badly. I could sleep for days,
like not literally, but you know, yeah, like I would
get up and shower and go right back to the bed.

(22:51):
Just just this is for years. This is yeah, a
couple of at least a few years.

Speaker 3 (22:56):
Wow.

Speaker 2 (22:56):
Yeah, when people were were your family and friends like worried?

Speaker 1 (23:00):
They didn't I didn't tell anybody what I was going through.
I think people I don't know. I think people maybe
had a clue that I wasn't myself. Maybe I wasn't.
I'm usually very I'm like a relentless optimistic optimist.

Speaker 3 (23:23):
So you were you were good at like faking it.

Speaker 1 (23:26):
Yeah, yeah, I definitely had. I think my assistant I
had to have known. My road manager had to have
known who's now my manager now. He had to you know,
certain figures. I think saw family. Mom said she didn't
know really, Yeah, she just told me that recently. She
was like I didn't even know what are you talking about? Wow,

(23:48):
it's like, okay, you just job right.

Speaker 2 (23:50):
People come over the hollidays, they come for dinner, we
meet up for lunch, you go to the thing. Yes, Carrie,
you have no idea, no clue.

Speaker 3 (23:58):
It's interesting how you explained the pre I had.

Speaker 2 (24:00):
I heard Joe, if I had Joe one time was
talking about a time when he lost his sister, He
lost a pun and it was really he talked about
depression one time. I don't know something about the description.
It always stuck with me and he and the way
you said it was almost.

Speaker 3 (24:13):
The same thing.

Speaker 2 (24:14):
It's like he said, it's like it could be sunny,
but you feel like it's gloomy. Nothing makes you happy.
Every it's everything feels dark. Everything feels gloomy. Yes, you
just you don't want to get out of the bed.

Speaker 1 (24:26):
Just dim the world. If it was once bright and
pretty and colorful, it's just everything's dim. Everything. Every advice
someone's giving you is just like you're just it's just
mundane and melancholy and just.

Speaker 2 (24:40):
And then when do you say, when does something change?
That's what's what's the When does the light come back in?
Or how do you get it back.

Speaker 1 (24:49):
I want to say this responsibly. Mm hmm. But there's
one I mean I did. Let me let me preface
this by saying I had done like spiritual things, I'd
kind of really come into a closer relationship with God.
And there, you know, just I went on retreats and

(25:13):
I built a community of those who were kind of
like minded in that sense, you know, spirituality, and my
tribe really appeared during that time. My tribe really stood
up and some I knew already somewhere new and it
was just like, Okay, the team is not professional team,

(25:38):
but carries carry the humans. Tribe was starting to appear
angels really. And then I met a doctor who assisted
me with shrooms, medicinal grade trooms psychedelics. I can say

(26:00):
without a doubt that I did like two macro doses.
And I'm saying this responsibly because again it's doctor assisted, right, and.

Speaker 3 (26:09):
Also this is your experience. This is not what we
were not promoting this.

Speaker 1 (26:14):
Yes, yeah, but I can say that. And I was
already coming out. I was already pretty much out, but
I still would struggle with here and there, and that
doctor suggested that I just research, which I did because
I was very scared of like.

Speaker 3 (26:30):
Drugs, smoke weed or anything like that.

Speaker 1 (26:33):
Nah. I would do edibles occasionally, yeah, low dose, yeah probably,
I mean, and I would take if it if they
recommend a half, I'm really taking an eighth of the half, right,
I'm easily affected by everything caffeine, Like I can't, I don't,
you know. So I know my my personnel, which is me,

(26:55):
and so I was very very nervous. But then I
learned that there are retreats all around the world for
shrooms being used medicinally as healing modality. And like I say,
is it worked for me? It works?

Speaker 3 (27:12):
Okay, you're not gonna just say that. I need, I need,
I need, I need some share. I need to understand
what what do you say it worked?

Speaker 2 (27:18):
Because I'm fascinated by this, by the way, and I've
definitely read a lot about it.

Speaker 3 (27:23):
I call people who have had incredible experience, okay with it.
I know somebody who's dealing with severe grief and.

Speaker 2 (27:34):
She's she's she's gone down this road and it's given
her some relief.

Speaker 3 (27:39):
And so I know it does work for some people.

Speaker 1 (27:42):
I know many as well.

Speaker 3 (27:43):
I have I have feed my own personal fears about it.
So that's why I'm so interested. So I have questions.

Speaker 1 (27:48):
But anyway, so what you say, because there's different there's like.

Speaker 3 (27:53):
There's names for them, right, which one did you do?
Is it that?

Speaker 1 (27:57):
I don't know?

Speaker 3 (27:58):
You don't.

Speaker 1 (27:59):
I don't even know the name. I'll find out for you.

Speaker 3 (28:01):
Yes, because there's different versions.

Speaker 4 (28:02):
Yes.

Speaker 1 (28:03):
And then and then.

Speaker 2 (28:06):
There's likesca I haven't done that yet not. And then
there's like a toad the yeah not that No, I
haven't done talks about the and the.

Speaker 3 (28:18):
D M T and all that, like I haven't. This
is even Will Smith shrooms, Will Smith has done it. Yeah,
Mike can trace it. Mike Tyson swears by.

Speaker 1 (28:27):
We can see the change in him.

Speaker 2 (28:29):
Right, Yes, Well, Mike Tyson has an extreme level of rage.
He did this podcast and this let me tell you
how to explained rage to me. I thought it was fascinating. Okay,
he said he did he went to a doctor and
he told me this. He's like, you know, you could
see rage on a brain scan. I was like, well,
what do you mean. He said that he went to
the doctor and they could see it on his brain scan.
That the doctor showed him that this is where and

(28:49):
he lives with that rage all the time. So Mike
Tyson was talking around life trying to manage that, and
he's found ways. He's got an amazing family and amazing white.

Speaker 1 (29:00):
It was there before, it had to be there before boxing,
which is probably why he got into boxing.

Speaker 3 (29:03):
Oh no for sure, okay o, no, for sure.

Speaker 2 (29:05):
He's got high levels of rage, and so I think
that that has helped him manage that's he's leaned into shrooms.

Speaker 1 (29:12):
Because he seems so like calm.

Speaker 3 (29:14):
Now Adams probably aged probably so much mushrooms. Yeah, yeah,
and yeah whatever whatever, he's found a way for him.
I will say, I know, I don't ayahuasca.

Speaker 1 (29:24):
I don't think derives from mushrooms.

Speaker 3 (29:27):
I thought it was we need we need research.

Speaker 1 (29:30):
Okay, so yeah, I don't think so, I don't know,
but I haven't done those I want to.

Speaker 3 (29:34):
Okay, So wait, you just did regular rooms.

Speaker 2 (29:37):
I just did regular psychedelic but medicinal great rooms. And
is it like organized because there's places that you do
cut our places.

Speaker 1 (29:45):
Mine was DOC assisted at home.

Speaker 3 (29:47):
Doc assisted at home. And was it scary at all
or not?

Speaker 1 (29:50):
Yeah? I was scared at first. I was scared. I
was scared. I was actually as as it was hitting,
I was like still reading articles and still like you.

Speaker 3 (29:59):
Know you're reading about it.

Speaker 1 (30:04):
Really it was great because it gave me comfort. That's
it gave me, Like things are scary until you understand,
until you seek to understand that, right, They're only as
scary as you when you, I guess, aren't informed or
lack knowledge about it.

Speaker 3 (30:20):
Right. Okay, the more I learned, the more comfortable I was.
I was like, oh, so, what did you learn? What
did it tell you?

Speaker 1 (30:26):
Just it was talking about the retreats and how I
think it's eighty percent. I hope I can't remember. I
think I have it in my notes in my phone, right,
I'm a note tacker because I know I don't retain
things like numbers. But like eighty percent of people something
like that I have reported in these psychedelic retreats that

(30:46):
it has completely cured their depression. And then there's another
percent of people. I don't think it's the remaining twenty
Maybe it was, but another chunk of people reported that
it severely minimized the depression their depression.

Speaker 3 (31:00):
Yeah, and it's just like you said, you did two sessions.

Speaker 1 (31:04):
I did two sessions of you know, there's macro and micro,
so I did two macros macro dosis. Like, I don't
want to tell how much. I don't want to influence
anyone to like try it on their own or it
could do that street version or late version. Yeah, I
would not suggest that, So I'm trying to be responsible
about what what I say about it.

Speaker 3 (31:24):
But what was your experience? Did you because they said
the walls melting.

Speaker 1 (31:29):
Up, No, it's not even trippy. It's not your experience.
It was not trippy. My experience was not trippy like that.
But I did want to listen to music and I
did want to be outside. How long is it lasts
you outside in nature? Uh? They say six hours? But
for me, I'm again, I'm kind of easily manipulated because

(31:49):
I I don't take substances, so it lasted longer for me,
Like maybe I felt different, maybe about eight to ten
hours something like that. Wow, and I just went to
be I went to sleep at the end of you know,
end of it, had a super vivid dream, but it
was just it pulls me outside. I remember passing a

(32:09):
mirror one of the time, one of the two times,
and I realized I had been happy, but I passed
a mirror and I would just you know, and I
saw a smile on my face and I'm like, that's weird.
So I try to like wipe the smile off my face,
and I literally couldn't because I was like, that's freaking weird.

(32:30):
Like the doctor's here, like I looked, I look nuts.
I'm sure I look nuts. And I try to like
get serious, and I couldn't.

Speaker 3 (32:38):
I was just happppy. Wow.

Speaker 1 (32:40):
And I hadn't seen that in a while either, So
I was just kind of staring at it like this
is what I look like. Yeah, a little Carrie, That's
how it felt. Wow, that's how it felt. And you
have these you have these like realizations. They call it
like a dot connector the Native Americans would call it
like a vision quest where a child coming of age.

(33:02):
I think it's boys coming of age. They would give
them shrooms, send them out into the wilderness, and by
the time they make it home, they understand who they
are and their purpose in their life. And so I
can absolutely say that I had some of that effect too.
Things became clear. It was bird's eye view. Dots were
connecting for sure.

Speaker 3 (33:22):
Wow, and with no fear.

Speaker 2 (33:24):
No is it because you had the doctor there maybe yeah,
or you just were so ready for a change.

Speaker 1 (33:35):
I don't know. I think I just had researched it,
I trusted him and I was ready. Yeah, it's just
that ready. Yeah, you were so I was ready for
things to turn up. So this is just you're in
this moment twice.

Speaker 2 (33:50):
You do it twice, Yeah, and then there's another side
so it's over. Yeah, but then there's another side to it,
and you feel a shift in your life beyond those
two sessions.

Speaker 3 (33:59):
Absolutely, Wow, Like what what does that feel like?

Speaker 1 (34:02):
Optimism? Again?

Speaker 3 (34:03):
Wow? Just like.

Speaker 1 (34:07):
Curiosity, childlike wonder, and it's not like it. It doesn't
like close chapters for you. You know, you still got
to work through things that are occurring. You still got
to live your life. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (34:19):
Yeah, they're still emotion, you still feel, there's.

Speaker 1 (34:21):
Still yeah, you still feel. But I have never been
in a dark place for long or as dark since then.
Like I can confidently say that cured my depression. Confidently
I can say that. And the other work that I
you know, therapy, I was definitely in therapy. I was
definitely doing my spiritual practices. I was definitely on retreats.

(34:42):
I was definitely building community you.

Speaker 3 (34:45):
Were actively trying to get out of it.

Speaker 1 (34:47):
Yeah, so it was one of the catalysts to curing
my depression. I was an active participant in it, but
but that was a major piece for sure.

Speaker 3 (34:57):
What did you learn?

Speaker 2 (34:58):
Because some people therapy comes up a out here and
everybody has different experiences. But I always say it's like
dating because some people, like I tried it, I didn't
like it. I'm like, you try one.

Speaker 3 (35:07):
That's like going on one day with one person and
being like, dating's whack. I don't even know. You don't know.
You need to try other people exactly.

Speaker 1 (35:14):
It is like dating.

Speaker 3 (35:15):
Yeah, it's the wrong therapist. It is a waste of time.

Speaker 1 (35:17):
Yeah, and I have heard horror stories from people.

Speaker 3 (35:21):
But you find a good one.

Speaker 1 (35:22):
Yeah, it took me a couple two be a couple also, And.

Speaker 3 (35:26):
What do you think is a good one?

Speaker 1 (35:27):
What do you think makes a good one?

Speaker 3 (35:29):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (35:33):
I think a good therapist coaxes you via their questioning
and they're listening, coaxes you towards having your own realizations.
I think a good one allows you to discover yourself

(35:57):
and become aware of yourself, kind of on your own,
but with their guidance. I don't think that it is
wise for them to tell you certain things, but suggest
and kind of you're just your guidelines for me to
not look at this wrong or to not you know,
you're helping me see what's true about life, about my childhood,

(36:19):
what's true and how I'm experiencing things and how I
may view it differently and how you know, You're just
you're to me a guide. Yeah, sure, I think that
makes a good one.

Speaker 3 (36:30):
What was your childhood like? Like what? You probably just
a talented little kids.

Speaker 2 (36:36):
I just imagine being like an active, pretty talented little kid.

Speaker 1 (36:40):
Yeah. I was a creative, very active, very creative, very expressive,
a little bit of a show off, you know. I
was one of five. So it's like I wanted if
you want attention from your parents, you better be great
at something. So everything I did, I was great at
you because I'm like, hey Dad, watch this?

Speaker 3 (36:58):
Hey mom? You know, hey what did you do? He
was singing or I'm singing?

Speaker 1 (37:02):
But from dad. I played sports like I became a winner,
like in the like I was actually my first trip
ever to New York. I was the Junior Nationals for swimming.
That's right.

Speaker 3 (37:14):
I didn't remember that about okay, yeah.

Speaker 1 (37:16):
Yeah, wow, And I think I was like fourteen, so
I swam. I was the youngest on the swim team,
three years old making it across the pool, and I
swam from three to about seventeen. Wow, I think you
age out at eighteen in that league. But yeah, that
was that was for that, yeah kind of yeah. That
his side of the family swam. I got swimming from

(37:38):
like his sister and her kids, like my cousins and
my cousin, one of which made it to the Olympic trials.
I think it was Australia whatever year that was. So like, yeah,
like you know, were you close sports and music was dead?

Speaker 3 (37:53):
Were you close to them? Yeah? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (37:56):
I just like because I could understand me going through
something and my mom not knowing. And me and my
mom are close, but I can know I go through
something and she doesn't know. But when I think as
on the other side of that as a mother, and
to think, hmmm, one of my you know, like my
kid could go through that for a couple of years
and I wouldn't know.

Speaker 1 (38:13):
That's notice very scary to me.

Speaker 3 (38:15):
Yeah, that's very very scary.

Speaker 1 (38:17):
Well, when you become adult too, you can be close still,
but you do start to do things independently when you
are an adult, like you can have your own life,
you have your own friendships, you're building, you're building your
own life. So I could hide it within that, yeah,
if that makes sense. I hit it within. I guess
under the concept or the context that like, oh, I'm

(38:41):
just you know, I put things in the context that
was just like had nothing to do with her, you know.
So I would hide my depression in those realms and
when we were around family, like I would try to
you know, but I'm still so intrigued that she didn't
know anything. No, I don't know how we'd have to

(39:02):
talk to her.

Speaker 3 (39:03):
It might be really sing.

Speaker 2 (39:04):
Well, that goes to show you you just never know
what somebody is going. When somebody is going.

Speaker 1 (39:09):
Can miss it. And my mom is quite attentive, is she?

Speaker 4 (39:12):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (39:12):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (39:13):
Yeah, But is she like a talker like that she is,
because some parents are not. They're not going to ask, like,
what's going on with you?

Speaker 1 (39:21):
Yeah, she would, and I would just lie, Yeah, you
would lie. I'm good.

Speaker 3 (39:25):
Oh my god.

Speaker 1 (39:26):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (39:27):
So now we're here on the other side, yes, yeah,
and then you decide let me put myself back out there.

Speaker 3 (39:34):
Right, let me go back outside, right, Is that must
be a little scary. Yeah, she could just disturb this
piece that you've built.

Speaker 2 (39:41):
Now, yes, yes, absolutely, so here you are, I'll side talking.

Speaker 1 (39:45):
Share, talking, share, crying, crying.

Speaker 3 (39:49):
No, it's like rehashing, rehashing.

Speaker 2 (39:53):
When you talk about it. It's just it's a new Yeah,
people are just learning it. Some some people might just
learn about.

Speaker 3 (39:58):
What happened or yeah, all of that.

Speaker 1 (40:00):
Yeah, yeah, I think. And you want to give it justice.
You want to give everything you talk about the proper justice,
especially when you know you're on camera and in front
of a mic. You're like, wait, you know, but yeah,
but I'm on this side. And yes, there is a
lot of fear there. There are a lot of fears.

(40:21):
But you and I before this interview, we're talking about
like when you take a break, under whatever circumstances, when
you pull away from anything, you have these like proper
realizations and for me, coming back just meant it has

(40:46):
to mean something. It has to mean something. Yeah, I can't.
I'm not doing this for a hit song. Of course,
that's one of the main things you want, But like,
I'm not doing it for that reason. I'm not creating
I haven't been creating or putting any of this together
for like the wrong reasons. It's all like I am expressive.

(41:09):
I was born to express, I was born to saying,
I was born to write. I was born to create
and purpose like you know, coming back in It's like
it has to be purposeful. It's got to mean something.
You gotta tell a story. I got to teach somebody something.

Speaker 3 (41:23):
Yeah, I got to say, what do you want it
to mean?

Speaker 1 (41:26):
I want to lead others. I wanted to mean a
lot of things. Redemption for myself, triumph because I've had to.
I went from mountain to valley and I'm climbing back
up the mountain. And that's how it feels to me.

(41:48):
So that's what it means for me. And what I mean,
what I wanted to mean for others is like just
that same story, like that you can come back from anything.
You can come back. You don't have to let that
fear stifle or you know, stop you.

Speaker 2 (42:03):
By the way, there's people who have come back from
doing way worse things.

Speaker 3 (42:08):
Very true.

Speaker 2 (42:09):
I have a friend, very true named Shaka, who went
to prison for a very long time for murder and
has led all types of reform initiatives and best selling
books since he's been out of prison has changed his
life around in a major way.

Speaker 3 (42:23):
After murder.

Speaker 2 (42:25):
I'm just saying, yeah, redemption is possible for people, for everyone,
even if you pursue it.

Speaker 1 (42:29):
Yeah, for sure, if you see it and you believe
in that for yourself and you pursue it is possible.

Speaker 3 (42:36):
What about forgiveness.

Speaker 1 (42:39):
From others?

Speaker 3 (42:40):
Just? I don't know, in general? Where do you? Because
we talk about redemption, we talked about like purpose. I
just think in experiencing what you've experienced and even.

Speaker 2 (42:50):
Just the depression part of that, And I don't know,
break up and it's just so so much sadness around that.
I'm sure there had to be some forgiveness. I don't know,
for yourself, for other people. Yeah, so I don't know
for myself. For yourself, you have to forgive yourself?

Speaker 1 (43:06):
Yeah, yeah, and I do? I did? I do?

Speaker 3 (43:09):
You do?

Speaker 1 (43:10):
I do?

Speaker 2 (43:11):
We don't talk about that a lot. No, we say
a breakup all I had to forgive, how I put
it past me. But for ourself forgiveness, what does that
look like?

Speaker 3 (43:21):
And how hard is that right? And why do why
don't we offer that to ourselves.

Speaker 1 (43:25):
I don't know. It's uncomfortable because forgiving yourself means you
admit that you played a part in something, you made
a mistake, or you uh miscalculated something or made a misstep. Right,
So I think a lot of people don't even want
to do that much, so they don't get to the

(43:47):
forgiveness because they're like, stuck on I'm perfect, Yeah, stuck
on it. It wasn't my fault, it was your fault,
you know. I feel like maybe that's why we can't
get there.

Speaker 2 (43:56):
Yes, that's not a good place to be, but the
way forgiveness is a big part of the redemption.

Speaker 3 (44:02):
You gotta it's got to be forgiveness.

Speaker 1 (44:04):
And redemption and others and others, Yeah, others that don't
even ask for your forgiveness, others that may still be
perpetrating things against you, may still be gaslighting you, you know,
and you still got to forgive them because why are
we harboring bad feelings, bad ill feelings? Yeah, like why
are we doing that? That's at how long?

Speaker 3 (44:23):
How long does that have to go on for? Right?

Speaker 1 (44:25):
That's just more burden the.

Speaker 3 (44:27):
Other thing, So redemption, forgiveness, what about love?

Speaker 1 (44:30):
Because you say all of this.

Speaker 3 (44:32):
Happened at one time.

Speaker 2 (44:34):
So I wonder how much of that depression also had
to do with you ending this like long relationship.

Speaker 3 (44:38):
Yeah yeah, this wasn't all. It was probably little bits
of it all. Yeah, where did you land with love
after that?

Speaker 1 (44:47):
I haven't landed right after that? You know you rebound? Yeah,
you were privy to one of my rebounds.

Speaker 3 (44:58):
Yeah, we've seen the rebound.

Speaker 1 (44:59):
Yeah, no, you saw rebou The others didn't say, wait,
I saw one, Yes that no one else saw.

Speaker 3 (45:04):
Am I forgetting my mind? My brain?

Speaker 1 (45:08):
We were dating friends, You and I were dating.

Speaker 3 (45:12):
Oh my god, oh yes, oh yes, oh my god.
That's right. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (45:18):
So right on the heels of that eleven year breakup,
that's what I did for a year, year and a half.

Speaker 3 (45:25):
Whatever, okay, and then that was it. It was super private.
Yeah that's right. I forgot about that.

Speaker 2 (45:31):
See that's why I'm a good person to trust, because
I forget get. People be like, listen, don't tell anybody.

Speaker 3 (45:37):
I'd be like, don't worry. I promise you don't worry.
It's in one ear and not the other. We forgot
about Yeah, oh my god, that's right.

Speaker 1 (45:45):
Yeah, okay, but you do it.

Speaker 2 (45:48):
But it's been a little quiet, Like you haven't you
haven't jumped into like another long term.

Speaker 1 (45:54):
No, but they are, I guess not that long. But
I've done five years, three years, you know, one year.
I've had a couple of relationships after that, just a couple,
but haven't landed.

Speaker 3 (46:11):
In Yeah, what did you have you learned about it?
Do you still believe in it? Do you look for it?

Speaker 1 (46:16):
Is important to you? It's important to me, not in
the same ways that it was.

Speaker 2 (46:20):
Do you mean like.

Speaker 1 (46:23):
Love to me? I I don't crave it. I accept
and welcome it. I'm open to it, but I don't
force it, like I'm not getting on dating apps and
doing anything about being single. I really really this people,
I don't know. I think people can't fathom it for themselves,
so they think I'm cappin. But I like me. Yeah,

(46:47):
like I enjoyed. I am perfectly fine. And there was
a time when like after that break, like reason for
the rebound, like you can't be alone, you're just like
I'm used to having someone and I broke out of
that and I call actually my manager called that relationship

(47:11):
my ferrari cause you know, you get like a Ford
or Honda or something you're like, this is reliable. This
is a reliable vehicle. You can have it up until
one hundred and fifty thousand miles if you need to.
You know, it's safe, it's safe, it's reliable. Your ferrari,
it's for fun. It's for fun, and you just want

(47:31):
to be pretty shiny, it's pretty, it's bright red, it's fast,
you know, and you just want to like take me
up out of here, real fast. Yeah, that was my Ferrari.
And it's not meant to last. It's not meant to
be a long We almost did permanent things. We almost
did permanent things, and we almost did public things. You know,

(47:54):
we were wise because it was really a rebound for
both of us at that time. You know what was
going on in his life and what he had just
encountered and now you know what was going on in
my life. So we were each other's rebound for a year,
year and a half, somewhere between a year and eight
year and a half. But it's just like, take me
up out of here. I'm not trying to think about heartbreak.

(48:15):
I'm not trying to you know, have these have the heart,
you know, just don't heartbreak. You don't have heartbreak. You
don't want to think about it. You're not even trying
to find a lesson in this ship. You're not trying
to heal for real, you just are like I need
to replace what I lost with something new and shiny

(48:35):
and beautiful. Yes, okay, and it was that and so
uh yeah I appreciated that for right, for what it was,
but it was it's not a car that you have forever.

Speaker 3 (48:47):
You could, but it wasn't for your it was forever.

Speaker 1 (48:51):
Yeah, it was my forever, you know.

Speaker 3 (48:55):
Wow.

Speaker 1 (48:56):
So yeah, I don't need it in the I don't
need love in the same way like I needed to
be uh strong and healthy. That's what I need now.
I need it to be real, I need it to
be stable. I need it to represent truth and have

(49:20):
trust and have all the foundational things. Like I don't
need it at any costs, Like I'm not sacrificing my Yeah,
I know love is not perfect and it disrupt your
peace a little bit, but no more ferraris. But no
more ferraris, no more. Maybe maybe it can have like
a ferraris can.

Speaker 2 (49:36):
Be dangerous because women do this right there, They'll come
out of a long term relationship, they'll go get a ferrari.

Speaker 3 (49:42):
But that's gonna stay forever.

Speaker 2 (49:44):
They're gonna go get a ferrari. But sometimes you get
comfortable in the ferrari.

Speaker 3 (49:51):
And that's if you crash in a ferrari.

Speaker 1 (49:53):
Oh yeah, you crash.

Speaker 3 (49:55):
You gotta be careful. You think you're safe because you're like, oh,
this is just fun. And then women I've seen this
mm hmm many times. Friends, they were like, I'm just
having fun here.

Speaker 2 (50:04):
Yeah, and then you find yourself in a situation because
you made.

Speaker 3 (50:07):
A choice to be with somebody that's not safe.

Speaker 1 (50:10):
Yes, you made a choice.

Speaker 3 (50:11):
You made a choice to be with somebody who's not safe.
And now now look what happened to you.

Speaker 1 (50:16):
You gotta and that frights.

Speaker 3 (50:18):
You got stitches over your eye. I don't mean literally,
figure crash. Yes, it crashed. It does what it does.

Speaker 1 (50:26):
You were racing in the mountains and yeah, I've done that.
I tricked myself one time too. It definitely was like
I'm just gonna have fun. He's younger than me. I
don't see it. But then love happened, and three years
down the line, you know you're still there, just like
this was just supposed to be a ferrari. I think

(50:49):
I'm trying to make it a Honda.

Speaker 2 (50:53):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (50:53):
Maybe your car is somewhere in between a Honda and
a Ferrari.

Speaker 1 (50:56):
Yeah I think it is.

Speaker 3 (50:57):
Maybe you're not built for a Honda either.

Speaker 1 (51:00):
It's something, you know, I don't know, something in between.
Maybe yeah, maybe you know. But if I don't know,
I think so because I am somewhere in between it.
You know, I'm like a Porsche. I'm like, I love
a Porsche. I have one.

Speaker 2 (51:15):
You do, I do.

Speaker 3 (51:16):
And it's so funny that you say that because I
told you before I was talking about my car accident.
I used to drive like fast.

Speaker 2 (51:22):
Cars and whatever, and then I had a car accident
and I drove a mini van after my cars because
I had so much trauma on PTSD that it was
the only car I felt safe.

Speaker 3 (51:33):
It was slow, it was big, it was my transition car.

Speaker 2 (51:38):
But what happened was the transition car was supposed to
be like for by the way. I came out of
the hospital and my partner was like the minivan came up.

Speaker 1 (51:45):
I was like, what is this?

Speaker 3 (51:47):
He was like, oh, I got you a minivan?

Speaker 1 (51:49):
Oh what?

Speaker 3 (51:50):
I got me a minivan?

Speaker 2 (51:52):
And I'm went on the thing and I get in
the car and I'm like okay, and I wound.

Speaker 3 (51:56):
Up keeping it for I don't know, a couple of
years because I felt safe. Yeah, but at one point
my niece.

Speaker 2 (52:03):
Shout out to Asie, was like, are.

Speaker 3 (52:10):
You gonna make an for the rest of your life?
And I was like, well, I don't know that. We
were trying to figure out what car is me in
this version of me.

Speaker 2 (52:18):
I remember sitting in the parking lot with her and
we were talking and we were like and it just came.

Speaker 3 (52:22):
Like She's like you you're like something classic, something that's
like timeless, okay, and I don't know what we figured out.
She was like, oh, Porsche.

Speaker 1 (52:31):
I was like, I've never had a Porsche.

Speaker 3 (52:32):
She was like, get a poorche that'd say. And I've
got one and now it's Porch, however, and I've been
driving it ever since. That's my that's my car.

Speaker 2 (52:41):
But yeah, so there's like, yeah, you know, you have
to figure out I don't know, there's something here with it.

Speaker 1 (52:46):
There's something there, something here. I'll tell you one thing
when it comes to minute, I ain't no minivan. I
ain't going I'm not going that far from from from
fer work.

Speaker 3 (52:55):
You don't want to date a minivan.

Speaker 1 (52:56):
No, I don't want to date a minute. I'm cool
on that.

Speaker 3 (53:00):
Uh yeah, I see you in a range Rover. Yeah,
I see you dating.

Speaker 1 (53:03):
That's my car.

Speaker 3 (53:04):
I see you dating a range.

Speaker 1 (53:05):
Rover, and that's my car.

Speaker 3 (53:06):
That's my truck.

Speaker 2 (53:07):
Like shiny, but safe and and like not necessarily a
sports vehicle.

Speaker 1 (53:15):
No, it's very it's very reliable, very safe, but fly
and fly.

Speaker 3 (53:20):
Yeah, there you go. I like it. You go find
you another, Go find your range Rover.

Speaker 1 (53:25):
Okay, that's crazy. I named your car, you name my car.

Speaker 3 (53:29):
That's so funny.

Speaker 1 (53:29):
That is crazy.

Speaker 3 (53:30):
That's what we're doing, the right thing right in real life. Oh,
let's go to your bowl?

Speaker 1 (53:33):
Can we do both bowl?

Speaker 3 (53:35):
Go in some questions and then I have some in
real lives that will go through it. You you go
in there. Okay, good carry.

Speaker 1 (53:40):
How many am I doing?

Speaker 3 (53:41):
Try one? Think a good one. There's just real life questions,
nothing but crazy.

Speaker 1 (53:49):
All right.

Speaker 3 (53:50):
I got one real quick before you read yours. What
do you like most about yourself? Oh?

Speaker 1 (53:57):
That's oh. I like how content I am with myself.
I look out into the world and I see that
that's rare. People are like scrambling and seeking validation and
dating people sometimes for validation to feel like I'm a

(54:19):
wife or to feel like, you know, I've been chosen.
I've been validated. I've been you know. And they buy
things they don't need for that reason, and they do,
you know. I love how content I am in my life.
That's one of my favorite things.

Speaker 3 (54:31):
What is the key to What do you think the
key to that has been for you?

Speaker 1 (54:35):
Oh?

Speaker 3 (54:36):
Maybe being down in the valley and coming back up
out of the.

Speaker 1 (54:39):
Valley maybe, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, just when you come
out and how we said things have to have meaning.
I think maybe it's that something around there, Yeah, just
things a dulled like and in COVID too. I don't
know if you were like me, but I got rid
of a lot of shit you did. Yes, I purged.

(55:00):
I'm still purging. I Purching stuff does not mean the
same as it once did. Wow, I am so content
with the few bags that I kept and the okay,
it's not a few bags and it's not a few shoes,
but it's way less, it's way less, way less, Like
it doesn't mean anything, even my stylust. It's like you're
gonna get rid of that. I'm like, yeah, she's like,

(55:21):
you have changed. We're talking watches, we're talking stuff like stuff, stuff,
it's just stuff. I'm like, I don't want excess anymore.
I lived in excess. My closet was ridiculous. I don't
want excess. I don't need extra. I just need what
I need. Wow, you know. But and I'm still doing it.
I'm still purging, like, have a great closet still. No,

(55:42):
it's good, it's good. Good, it's good, it's great. It's great,
but it's not excessive.

Speaker 2 (55:46):
But you know what's interesting about with the closet and
also with life, it's like if you clear out the ship,
not the ship, but the stuff that doesn't really mean anything,
you see the things clearer that really mean.

Speaker 1 (55:58):
That, Yeah, that you really love.

Speaker 3 (56:00):
That's why I need to do it.

Speaker 2 (56:01):
My closet is a mess right now, and I feel
like I'm I will be a happier person if I
could get to that.

Speaker 1 (56:06):
Here's my advice. Yeah, don't overwhelm myself. Just take it
section by siding.

Speaker 3 (56:10):
That's the problem.

Speaker 4 (56:11):
Yeah, I feel oh, because it gets dirty or before
it gets better, you're.

Speaker 1 (56:14):
Looking at the whole project, right, I do shoes just
do flats. Okay, just do Oxford's one day. Just do
heals one day, you know what I mean? And not
the same week, Like, just take it when you feel,
when it hits you. P one section and I'm gonna
attack just this section. What in here do I love?
When in here?

Speaker 3 (56:33):
You're in Atlanta? And my clause is probably way bigger
than mine. So I have a small closet.

Speaker 1 (56:37):
Well, I had to make other closets, other rooms, closets.

Speaker 2 (56:40):
Yeah sure, But all right, I'm going to declutter. You've
inspired me to declutter. Okay, it has literally been I
feel it. I'm bad, I'm caring. Okay, Okay, on my back.

Speaker 3 (56:51):
All right.

Speaker 1 (56:52):
That's when you know it's time.

Speaker 3 (56:53):
It's so time de clutter. Okay, all right, I'm inspired.
All Right, you get another one. That was my question
that you answered so oh no, but it's fine. It's good.

Speaker 1 (57:02):
I'm like, is that not?

Speaker 4 (57:03):
No?

Speaker 3 (57:03):
No, that's good, you did it right. One more?

Speaker 1 (57:06):
What is it one value you think we're losing as
a society that's heavy. Yeah, there are a lot of values.
One that first came to mind, and I don't want
to sound I'll just say it, but I think Kuth
and class.

Speaker 3 (57:27):
You know, I think we're losing and I blame social
media for this. It's because everybody's opinion.

Speaker 2 (57:34):
But I think we're losing like empathy, because he's looking
for like, what's wrong with that?

Speaker 3 (57:39):
How can I call it? We just we look for
the easy thing.

Speaker 2 (57:42):
That's wrong with things and kind of lean to that
as opposed to like, what must must that person have
been through to have experienced that?

Speaker 3 (57:50):
Yes, what must that person be living with to put that?

Speaker 1 (57:54):
For?

Speaker 3 (57:54):
I just feel like the world could use a little
more empathy.

Speaker 1 (57:58):
Yeah. Yeah, we're not seeking to understand anything. We're seeking
to attack, We're seeking to diminish, we're seeking to devalue,
we're seeking to make a joke. You know, we're just
looking to We don't care about anyone's feelings or any
humans or what makes them.

Speaker 3 (58:17):
Put yourself back in the in the excited.

Speaker 1 (58:21):
Yeah, I'm excited because I'm a habit. How I want it?

Speaker 3 (58:24):
Period?

Speaker 1 (58:26):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (58:26):
How do you do that? Watch me?

Speaker 1 (58:32):
I'm doing it right now?

Speaker 3 (58:33):
Okay, okay, I love that for you in real life.

Speaker 2 (58:37):
Let's see here, in real life, if God were to
text you right now, what would it say?

Speaker 3 (58:42):
Oh?

Speaker 1 (58:43):
If God texts me right now, the text from God
would say I'm so proud of you. We're moving forward,

(59:04):
we're moving on, and your dad says hi and he
loves you.

Speaker 2 (59:10):
Yeah, that text would take you down because it almost did.
Just now, it almost to imaginary text me out now,
because that's what you it's a question, right, but it
is an imaginary text.

Speaker 3 (59:28):
But that is also what you probably hope.

Speaker 1 (59:32):
Yes, clearly, I would hope that I'm is what we're done. Yeah,
job well done, job well done. I would really really
I do want to be pleasing in God's eyes. And
it's hard in this industry. It's hard to have that
be a part of your your heart because a lot

(59:52):
of what you're called and asked and kind of what's
normal is kind of in a lot of ways opposite
what you think would be proud of. Yeah, so walking
towing that line is is is difficult. But hmm yeah

(01:00:15):
and your dad yeah mm hmm. I ain't about to
cry again.

Speaker 3 (01:00:20):
Where are we going here?

Speaker 2 (01:00:21):
So I just think, you know, it's like we're that age,
you know, like once you hit the age is things
your life changes, and the people that are closest to
us are now our relationship with them is different because
they're not here in the physical form.

Speaker 1 (01:00:33):
Yeah, I to tell you something beautiful about that though,
as close as we were, and we were close, because
that is someone like I could curse around and like
just be completely myself around. I've always wanted to impress
him too. But when I became an adult, like I
just he was so cool. He was so cool, so cool.

(01:00:54):
My dad was like word like gold rings all over
his hands, you know, just cool guy, right, cracking dirty,
you know, not dirty, but crass jokes and things. But
and I don't know if you've experienced, have you lost
a parents.

Speaker 2 (01:01:09):
Ye, well, not a parent, okay, but just family members Okay,
grandmother that was a very close to grandmother.

Speaker 1 (01:01:14):
I don't know if you can relate.

Speaker 3 (01:01:15):
But I feel close, even closer to my.

Speaker 1 (01:01:18):
Dad really in whatever room he's in, whatever realm he's in,
I feel even closer. And that's saying a lot. If
anyone knew me and my dad, like, that's saying a lot.
But I'm like, wow, I feel closer to you. I
hear you, I smell you sometimes, I know that you're present,

(01:01:38):
I know that you're watching. I get what I feel
are messages from you. He appears in my dreams and
I'm like, wow, I'm more aware of you in your
pat in that other I'm more aware of you because
you know, we take people for granted. We do.

Speaker 3 (01:01:51):
We do.

Speaker 1 (01:01:52):
We don't mean to, but we do. And when they're gone,
you're like, yes, for a while you're painfully aware of them,
but on the other side of that grief, it's like
you're just beautifully aware of them. And that's where I am.
I'm like, oh my God, and he orchestrates things where
I'm like, you're an angel for me now and our

(01:02:15):
family like you're you know, things have come together in
certain ways that I'm like, only you couldn't have done
that in your body. You could not have inspired that,
even though I'm sure you wanted it. Certain things that occur,
but like, he can do so much more from wherever
the hell he is let me not put hell in
that word, Like wherever the heaven he is, he's doing

(01:02:36):
so much. It's so it's so it's it's oh it hurts,
but it's so beautiful after that.

Speaker 2 (01:02:43):
That's so nice to hear because I think you know,
people say when people when we lose somebody important, people
always say, well, they're always with you, and unless you're
on the other side of the grief, you might that
sounds almost cliche or.

Speaker 1 (01:02:55):
Something that you don't know what it means.

Speaker 2 (01:02:56):
But the way you just explained it is exactly what
that means, is exactly why people people who are connected
to you will always be connected to Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:03:04):
Yeah, like I almost want to be like Dad, because
we're talking about you. Make a light flicker, Please make
a life flicker. If you're in this room, make a
light flicker. Please, that would be cool. I don't know
if you know how to do.

Speaker 2 (01:03:15):
That, but you have that much faith in your connection
with him, then you feel like, I.

Speaker 1 (01:03:19):
Know he's here now because I know when I'm talking
about him, like he's like he's near.

Speaker 2 (01:03:24):
Wow.

Speaker 1 (01:03:25):
Yeah, I always feel that. Sometimes I'll smell his cologne
or wow, he smoked cigarettes, I would smell like a
smoke you know. So crazy, it's so crazy, but I
feel like talking about him and sensing him makes then
I feel him, you know. Or I see a sign
or something, Yeah, you know a car he used to

(01:03:46):
have or just something like that. It's just so it's.

Speaker 2 (01:03:49):
Really he's still there.

Speaker 1 (01:03:52):
Yeah, for sure, that's still present. Even more, I think
I just feel closer somehow.

Speaker 2 (01:03:58):
Yeah, it has that changed your relationship to your mom
sometimes losing a parent one parent.

Speaker 3 (01:04:03):
Yeah, I just wonder how that ship.

Speaker 1 (01:04:05):
Yeah, we've grown even closer to it. Gave me a
fear though, because I don't want her to go. So
I'm like, you're eating what you know we'll be on
the show. She says, I'll take a number two.

Speaker 2 (01:04:19):
Am.

Speaker 3 (01:04:20):
What are you doing? Do you need your mom healthy?

Speaker 4 (01:04:22):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (01:04:22):
I need health.

Speaker 3 (01:04:23):
I need you here. What are you doing?

Speaker 1 (01:04:26):
I'm like, are you walking? You want to go walking?

Speaker 3 (01:04:29):
Let's you know you're going to the gym with your mom?

Speaker 1 (01:04:31):
Okay, I can't get her to I don't think I
could go that from Maybe maybe she does, like my
sister takes her to like jazz or size type, I
don't know, zumba. Yeah, so that's fun, that's funny. Yeah,
so she enjoys but walk her girlfriends. You're cherishing her presence.
I'm cherishing her presence while also fearful of her demise. Yeah,

(01:04:52):
so it does kind of.

Speaker 2 (01:04:54):
Gets the quilt part of life is that everybody's just
a beginning and end for every single.

Speaker 3 (01:04:59):
You can't really avoided no, you know, No, it's the
suckiest part of life though, it really is.

Speaker 1 (01:05:05):
It is, yeah, it is.

Speaker 2 (01:05:07):
I'm glad you're on the other side though. I'm glad
you're okay. I'm sure it's still a soft spot.

Speaker 1 (01:05:11):
But yeah, but yeah, not that's not the same, not
the same certain maybe subjects, certain subjects around it. Yes,
but yeah, I just I just I need my mom
because that mom, when I think, is still different. Dad
is dad, but like mom is mom, you know. So
it did give me that fear. And I'm not a
person with a lot of fears. I don't have a

(01:05:31):
lot of fears anymore.

Speaker 3 (01:05:32):
Really, no, no, what scares you? Something has to just that.

Speaker 1 (01:05:37):
Really, that's the only thing I could really recall. I mean,
I guess, uh snakes, you know, like it's I'm really
not a scary I don't have a lot of fears anymore.

Speaker 2 (01:05:51):
Wow.

Speaker 1 (01:05:51):
And coming back to the industry and like clickbait fucking
scares me, uh lies about myself character attack Like I
like to be seen and known for who I am,
who I really am. Yeah, I just I don't have
a lot of fears.

Speaker 3 (01:06:08):
It's a good way to live.

Speaker 1 (01:06:09):
Yeah, I don't fear. Some women fear not having children
or not being married, and I don't have those fears, really,
I don't. I don't.

Speaker 3 (01:06:19):
It's a lot of peace that comes with that life.

Speaker 4 (01:06:22):
Also, by the way, for you, oh yeah, yes, yeah,
because kids are great and spouses can be great, but
not always.

Speaker 1 (01:06:33):
Not always.

Speaker 3 (01:06:34):
That's a very I mean beatul not always.

Speaker 2 (01:06:39):
Yeah, and it always it's not always the most peaceful
things either, by the way.

Speaker 1 (01:06:44):
Yeah, my house is very quiet and peaceful, very quiet
and very peaceful. My life is loud enough.

Speaker 3 (01:06:50):
All right, So what is this new season now that.

Speaker 1 (01:06:51):
We are at But I would welcome a child and
a husband. Let me not right, you know, I'm not
trying to like say that it's not something I would
want or I would push away like no, I'm not bitter,
I'm not broken, I'm not on heel like I'm not
you know.

Speaker 3 (01:07:06):
Yeah, that's fine.

Speaker 1 (01:07:07):
I'm fine. I'm just fine. But and if it came,
it would be great too, if it happened, like we're
not like at the point where we're aborting. I'm not
doing that, you know what I mean?

Speaker 3 (01:07:17):
Yeah, So what would that have to let you? Uh,
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (01:07:24):
I just hope they're quiet people.

Speaker 2 (01:07:26):
There was a question of real in real life, and
there's one in there in the bowl. It says, if
your heart had a rule book, what are two qualities
that would be written in bold when it comes to
a partner?

Speaker 1 (01:07:36):
Like, what qualities would have to be written in bold.

Speaker 3 (01:07:40):
When it comes to a partner?

Speaker 1 (01:07:41):
Ooh, okay, fourth right, like all the let me just
get fourth right? Honest, truthful, trustworthy.

Speaker 3 (01:07:56):
Those are pretty much all the same thing. But yeah,
they're all Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:07:59):
I'm just saying that's one category, but I don't want
one without the other. Generous. I've never really I don't
receive much in love. I haven't to date, received that
much in love relationships. So someone who's generous with their energy,
their time, thoughtfulness, gifts, you know, like, I'm open to

(01:08:23):
receiving and seeing what that fucking feels like.

Speaker 2 (01:08:27):
I'm surprised you haven't experienced that dating ferraris and dating
you know, you've been in relationships like I would imagine
that you would have received that.

Speaker 1 (01:08:38):
No, not really, No, I think they just perceived she
can buy it herself, you know, And if there's something
that I want, I would buy it myself. But no,
like having someone's card and just going to like I
want to know what that feels like.

Speaker 2 (01:08:54):
Now.

Speaker 1 (01:08:54):
I did have a guy I told my last relationship.
Actually he was like, what, no one's ever taken you shopping?
I was like no, but they would be like, if
you see something you like, put it up here, something
one thing, you know what I mean. And so when
he learned that he was, he took me on a

(01:09:14):
shopping spree and then we went like gambling and palm
springs like you know, we like it was just a
whole shopping day. Whole shopping day that sounds. We drove
to yes, and we drove in, you know, and I
got to spend. I got to gamble however much money
I wanted to get, like and not my own money,
so I didn't have to think about anything. It was fun.

Speaker 3 (01:09:34):
That was fun.

Speaker 1 (01:09:35):
But for the first time, at like forty, I was like, damn,
like other women, that's that's something I would love to experience.
So generosity, generosity because they had it. I'm not dating
you know what I mean. These guys have it.

Speaker 3 (01:09:47):
I remember I saw you on some I think it
was camp did a pod. You had Cam's pott and
you said that you had wish you had gotten out
of that relationship sooner. Sooner.

Speaker 1 (01:09:58):
Yeah, I thought that was Yes, what was that I
learned that?

Speaker 3 (01:10:02):
I learned that?

Speaker 2 (01:10:03):
Oh yeah, I found that so interesting because I think
people stay in comfort fear.

Speaker 3 (01:10:08):
Like you said, people think you have to have a partner,
so they stay for longer.

Speaker 1 (01:10:13):
Yeah, and they want that. They want the end result.
They want the ring, they want the wedding, they want
the dress, they want the house, they want the car,
they want everything that goes along. They may want the child,
they may want.

Speaker 3 (01:10:24):
Yeah, why did you do it?

Speaker 1 (01:10:25):
Why did I leave?

Speaker 2 (01:10:26):
No?

Speaker 3 (01:10:26):
Why did you not get out sooner?

Speaker 1 (01:10:29):
Oh yeah, same? But nah same, you know.

Speaker 3 (01:10:33):
Yeah, like you had pretty so much to believe.

Speaker 1 (01:10:36):
That I made a good choice in this person. I
wanted to believe that what I thought I saw was real,
So I was waiting to kind of see the glimpses
of that, and he just kept showing me. I'm a
fuck boy, it's not gonna be bad, like I am
who I am. And I learned to leave sooner, like

(01:10:58):
I don't overstay anymore. And I could be I'm a
sad so people call sagittarius like noncommittal. I could I
could maybe resemble that. Yes, you saw how I move,
but but I do believe. I just I'm not willing
to settle on certain factors. I don't want it that
bad to like suffer through you know, I do not

(01:11:20):
doing that. Wow, you tried, though, I'd be trying. I
be trying. I'd be trying.

Speaker 2 (01:11:28):
When do you know when somebody who's watching this now,
who's thinks they probably should have left already and they
haven't yet, when do you know?

Speaker 1 (01:11:39):
I don't know if that's the same for everybody. We
all have I think our different levels of awareness and
also like some people could take licks, some people could
take blows out here, no, I know, sometimes stuck around
through that like you know people some blows out hers. Yeah,

(01:12:01):
I think we have different what is that word?

Speaker 2 (01:12:04):
I don't know, just different lines, different barometers, different yes.

Speaker 1 (01:12:08):
Yes, different material you're made of teflon, yes, And I'm
nothing else right, So for me, I think, you know, well,
this is how I knew more than more times than
I I would pray a certain prayer that always got answered.

Speaker 3 (01:12:25):
Well, what is it.

Speaker 1 (01:12:26):
That prayer was? Something like I haven't said it in
a long time, so it may not be as smooth
as but it always got it always gets answered. But
I would say Lord, if this is not where who
and where I'm supposed to stay or be, let me know,

(01:12:52):
knock me down if you have to. I'll know, I'll
hear you. I'll accept that it is you. I'll know
that it was you, and I can walk away with
the knowing as opposed to guessing or fear or anything else, right,
And so I would just pray that, like, just knock
me down if you have to, please like take it

(01:13:13):
to rip it out of my hands if you must,
because there was a time when it was like that
had would have had to be the case, you know,
And because I just I was somewhere and I just
I this was early this is the next relationship after
the eleven years, and I just couldn't leave. I saw
so much I couldn't even believe that I was still there.
Like yeah, So I prayed that prayer and I was like,

(01:13:39):
I mean it just all started revealing itself.

Speaker 3 (01:13:43):
Wow. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:13:44):
So and I tried it again the next really, you know,
and it was it was like I was like, oh, okay, so.

Speaker 3 (01:13:48):
This prayer work.

Speaker 1 (01:13:49):
It's a dangerous you gotta be careful because it's Yeah,
I even the last time I used it, things kept
revealing even after I had left, to make sure that
I stay gone. I guess, right, because do you ask
to be asked to be knocked down? And he was like, ah,
just in case you're still vulnerable, let me show you this,

(01:14:09):
and let me show you this, and let me let
your sister's friend's husband tell you what he experienced through
your I could have been none. I should have been
this man. Don't even know that I know, but it
kept me away. I learned things after a breakup for months.
Months after breakup. I was just like, you know, that's
what you know. Wow, it's a it's a prayer. Now

(01:14:31):
with that prayer, careful with that prayer. But I hope
I'm not leaving anything out. Maybe I should sweet it
like when I the fully Yeah, yeah, because.

Speaker 3 (01:14:38):
I send it to us. We'll put it on a
little card on the I r L page, on the
Instagram page. Quote.

Speaker 1 (01:14:43):
Yeah, I probably haven't written.

Speaker 2 (01:14:45):
Down as the carry of prayer put the car if
you read it, If you read for sure, God wants
you to know.

Speaker 3 (01:14:51):
Somebody needs that prayer today.

Speaker 1 (01:14:52):
Somebody needs this. God wants you.

Speaker 3 (01:14:54):
We're gonna put it up there. He wants you clear,
all right, I know we're gonna lose you, but I
know music is coming. Is all of this in the music? Yeah?
Actually it is. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:15:01):
I tell one of the stories that we've kind of discussed.
I tell one of the stories in an interesting way.

Speaker 3 (01:15:12):
And what's it called?

Speaker 1 (01:15:14):
So the project is called We Need to Talk and
I broke it into three scenes. I call them Love,
which is out now, Drama which is coming this weekend
Friday Thursday night for you know, and then Redemption. So
those are three themes like it. Literally the album goes

(01:15:37):
through a lot of what we're talking about when we're
you know, in the love department, like we're meeting someone
and believing and seeing and hoping and you know, and
just all the feels and all the things you're willing
and wanting to do for your man, and that dreamy phase.
And then drama, which it's kind of self explanatory, right, yeah,

(01:16:04):
but you can you can literally on this album, you
can hear me going through it in real time. Wow,
that's all I'm gonna say. In real time. So uh,
and then you hear me having redemption in real time?
Do you talk about the shrooms?

Speaker 3 (01:16:19):
I don't, No, I don't know. I don't I don't.
I don't.

Speaker 1 (01:16:22):
This is a love story. This is a love story.
It's a love story, but not a fake one. It's
a real one. It's one of my relationships. And I
love the way I'm presenting this project. I really do.
So I hope people like it. It's fine if you don't,
but I have fun making it. Yeah, I'm satisfied.

Speaker 2 (01:16:41):
Well, congratulat, welcome back to thank you and.

Speaker 3 (01:16:45):
Your upswing from the turning up. You're turning up from
the valley.

Speaker 2 (01:16:50):
Yes, And in real life we ask everybody in real
life today, how are you on a scale?

Speaker 3 (01:16:56):
Once a time?

Speaker 1 (01:16:57):
Well, I'm happy with this interview. You're the start of
my day.

Speaker 3 (01:17:00):
Thank you.

Speaker 1 (01:17:01):
So today I'm really happy and it's good to see you.
You look great, you feel good you yeah, and you're
you're safe and you know, I feel careful. I feel
your care So I'm really happy. And and today it's
fashion week. You know we're going into street. Yeah, I'm

(01:17:22):
about to be these fashion streets. I'm excited for a
lot of what's going on this week. So I'm really happy,
very happy.

Speaker 3 (01:17:30):
So what's your number?

Speaker 1 (01:17:31):
Number? Oh, I think I'm like out of.

Speaker 3 (01:17:34):
Ten it is, Yeah, Karry Hillston everybody in real life.

Speaker 1 (01:17:41):
Yeah, this is Carrie Hillston in real life.

Speaker 2 (01:17:45):
For more episodes, you know to do, subscribe, like comments
and we'll see you on the next I r L
podcast

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