August 20, 2025 • 52 mins
Actress and producer La La Anthony joins Angie Martinez to discuss the emotions felt sending your child away to college. Her son Kiyan Anthony recently left to play basketball at Syracuse University. She then discusses exciting television projects such as ‘The Chi’ and her new project on Hulu ‘Group Chat’ that she’s working on with Kim Kardashian. This leads to a conversation with Angie on work-life balance, and being able to find time for oneself. Angie asks La La some ‘In Real Life’ questions, and they have a broader discussion on love.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
I'm not an emotional person. That's right, You're not, even
though are like lately than I've ever seen you cry. Ever, yeah,
it'd be the kid that doesn't. Kid. This has just
been so so hard. But I know that I'll get
through it. Of course you will. Yeah, it's just of
course you will.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
And you're gonna be surprised too, because usually after that
first year, and I heard this from a lot of moms,
they come home and they're like a little different because
now they've had this like I don't know, independence, and
it's like fun to like see that evolution for them, right,
And you'll enjoy that process, but man, it is it
be your kid. This episode of IRL podcast is powered
(00:46):
by boost Mobile.
Speaker 1 (00:47):
All right, guys, I'm excited about today's episode. I can't
believe it's taking her so long to get here. I'm
so happy. But today we have actress, producer, entrepreneur.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
She has built a career spanning TV, film, beauty, fashion,
from early days radio MTV to television power BMF, The Shy.
Speaker 1 (01:08):
There's more. There's many minutes more.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
She is also like one of the most recognizable and
relatable voices in entertainment.
Speaker 1 (01:14):
She is also a very proud mom.
Speaker 2 (01:18):
She's a published author, best selling author, and she has
gracefully navigated public love, heartbreak, and reinvention all in front
of our eyes.
Speaker 1 (01:28):
Well a lot, Anthony. They can't want an intro thank
you hi, true, but I love that, and you know
it's so funny as I'm saying all that, And even
when you came in today, I was like, Yo, We've
had so many great interviews over the years, and.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
Really it's because, like I said there, you have lived
like your life has been really public for a really
long time, but you also know how to navigate those waters.
Speaker 1 (01:54):
So I don't always know, like I learn as I go.
I learn as I go. What season are you in now?
Right now? So I think for me, I'm in a
very interesting season of my life. Cayenne has officially left
for college, and I keep telling people that it's just
(02:15):
something that I don't think I heard enough people talk about,
or like maybe I just wasn't prepared for it. Like
you hear conversations about everything that people go through in life.
For some reason, I wasn't private to the conversations about
when your kid leaves for college, when your only child
leaves for college, and like that void and you know, sorry,
(02:38):
but like the void and the emptiness and just like
literally one day he's there and then one day he's
just not. And when he left also like how long
has he been gone? So he's been gone now for
about I would say, like a month, and you know
when he left is like I just feel like and
(03:00):
the house kind of just left, because my house has
always been the fun house, all his friends and music
and just fun all the time, and then he just
left and it just got quiet. And that has been
really really hard for me. And I'm not embarrassed to
say it, or like I'm leaning into it so I
can understand what that feeling is and try to like
(03:21):
move past it and get to whatever the other side is.
But right now I'm so deep in that feeling and
it's been hard. Yeah, did you not expect it? I
don't know what I expected. Like I think that obviously
I always he was going to go to college, but
it always seems so far away, and then as it
even got closer, I'm like, well still another month. Still,
Like I was just savoring all that time, and I
(03:42):
guess I didn't just realize just what avoided was an impact,
Like it was gonna happen. Like I said, it's not
something like I'm never in conversations with people and that's
what people are talking about. I don't know if I'm
not running with a different crowd, but I don't talk
to people that are like, prepare yourself. This is how
it is, or this is how we should have talked more.
We should have talked more. We should have sure.
Speaker 2 (04:04):
Talked more, because I definitely had. I think before Nico left,
I had maybe like I was six months in preparation
for him leaving. I was like sad and almost it
was weird because it was almost like things.
Speaker 1 (04:18):
I was just like irritable and said like I.
Speaker 2 (04:20):
Had built up so much before he left, right because
I was anticipating it, which I think maybe you weren't
even I was right, So I had been anticipating it,
and then when he left, I was I remember telling,
you know, my friend's Shaka, not Zulu, Chaka Pilgrim. I
was telling Chaka Pilgrim. I said, Nicos, I gotta take
him to school. I'm gonna I'm gonna lose it. I'm
gonna be a mess. And she was like, no, you're not,
(04:42):
and I was like, no, I am she was like, no,
you're not.
Speaker 1 (04:44):
I was like, what do you mean.
Speaker 2 (04:45):
She was like, imagine for him, this is the first
time he's not he's leaving home. He's not going to
be living in the house. He's walking into a new place,
and you don't want to add to that. And it
had that had an even I was so, I was
so in myral how I was feeling about it. I was, oh, shit, okay,
you're right. I don't want to do that to him.
So I went I dropped him off.
Speaker 1 (05:03):
I was fine. Of course, I was a little emo
on the way home.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
But then I realized, like, they don't go anywhere, you know,
I'm saying, like, okay, tve me that, so.
Speaker 1 (05:17):
I don't you know, we facetimed a lot. We I
felt like the conversations.
Speaker 2 (05:21):
Were more meaningful on the phone and longer before it
would be like if he called me because he needed sover,
Hey Mom, I'm trying out here. But now because he's away,
when we would be on the phone, the conversations just
a little stronger and more meaningful because and then they
come home for the holidays and you still miss them,
but they still come home and you're still their mother
and you guys are so close. It's just it's just
(05:45):
an adjustment. There's no easy answer, but it is you
you are okay, and you realize like your bond is
not going in where.
Speaker 1 (05:53):
I don't know if that helps that it's because I'm
talking to somebody who's been through it, so it's like
I'm really listening to your words because you've been through it.
Speaker 2 (06:00):
And then it started to just become more comfortable. I
can't expect, like this the new norm.
Speaker 1 (06:04):
It's like the new norm. Yeah, in a weird way.
I'm just praying that. So you're like, I get there.
You're like in the early stages of it noon And
like you said, I don't want to put that pressure
on him because it's not his responsibility to take care
of me or make sure I'm good. So like I
always try to like I'm okay. I think one time
it was one night, it was like two o'clock in
the morning. I couldn't sleep and I called him and
(06:27):
I just started crying. He's like, no, are you don't care?
Like I He's like, I can't come home right now.
I have like basketball practice I got. I was like,
but that it only happened once, so and then I
like pulled it together. But see I get sad.
Speaker 2 (06:46):
Just oh but how great is that that you have
a love that strong that he knows that you love
him that bad?
Speaker 1 (06:53):
You know what I'm saying, Like that you unraveled that way. Yeah,
I tell you I'm not an emotional person. It's just right,
you're not, even though more like lately than I've ever
seen you cry. Ever, Yeah, it'd be the kid that doesn't. Kid,
this has just been so so hard, but I know
that I'll get through it. Of course you will. Yeah,
(07:14):
it's just of course you will.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
And you're gonna be surprised too, because usually after that
first year, and I heard this from a lot of moms,
they come home and they're like a little different because
now they've had this like I don't know, independence, and
it's like fun to like see that evolution for them, right,
and you'll enjoy that process, But man, it is it'd
be your kid.
Speaker 1 (07:39):
Just figure it out, Like you know what this next
chapter looks like? Me too? You know that part that
part had you thought about that before or no? I
feel like I mean I always think about like work
and what I have coming up, but not in this
way to where like I come home and he's like
not there. Like I would work and know that when
I got home, he's there. You know, we would plan
(08:00):
our evenings or whatever we're going to do. And now
it's like I could come off of you know, a
trip or doing some work somewhere and get off the
plane and come home and it's just like quiet. So
it's just adjusting to that, but also finding things that
I enjoy doing or that I want to do in
my spare time because my life has always just been working, Cayenne,
(08:21):
I never had like I never made a life for
myself in between that. It was always work.
Speaker 2 (08:26):
And Kyane, really that's so interesting because you are known
right as different, like yeah, you have so many your
so many friends, you have like just a full life
you would seen.
Speaker 1 (08:38):
But life was always has always been about work, and
I'm able to be a great friend of people. It
doesn't change because I'm working all the time. But I've
never been a person taking trips all the time on
vacations or like like that person. I used to always
feel guilty about that, Like I used to be like
I gotta work, Like I don't have time to be
sitting on a beach somewhere. I'll be on Instagram like,
(08:58):
how is everybody always on a fucking vacation? Like this
is crazy, I'm on set. I'm more like everybody's just
But I just never did that and never allow myself
time to really find things that I really enjoy it.
You know how people are like, well, what are you
doing your free time or what do you do to unwind?
Like yeah, I never really had the answer to that
because it was always like I'll mean with Cayenne or
(09:20):
I'm you know, like I'm working or I'm working. So
now it's like finding those things and I am excited
to find that because I do need to find stuff
to fill that time and to avoid when I'm not working.
And also I've been working for so long. Do you
feel like you've neglected yourself in a way. I definitely
feel like I've neglected myself. I feel like I've worked
(09:42):
so hard to probably in some ways avoid like dealing
with life stuff like if I'm always working, then I
don't have to pay attention to feel in this way
or different things that I went through, whether it was
publicly or privately, or what happened, you know, in my
relationship or whatever it's like just keep working, just keep working.
Then you could be distracted. You can not have to
deal with that. But at some point it all comes
(10:05):
back around and you have to face it and deal
with it. There's only so many shows I could be on.
Everyone's like, oh we think about lolaves, you gonna find
a job, you gonna find a check, You're gonna find this.
There's only so much of that. Or it's like, no,
you gotta deal with some of this stuff and you
gotta be okay with being with yourself. But what do
you do when it's quiet? Like how do do you
have a quiet thing that you do?
Speaker 2 (10:26):
Like comfortable quiet, like if somebody just flopped you on
a beach by yourself.
Speaker 1 (10:30):
I'm not comfortable quiet, really, and I'm not comfortable alone.
I always have been the person that's around so many people,
So I created that environment in my house to be
like that, which is why it's Kyanne's friends. You know,
they open in the fridge cooking with they like that's
always been the environment at the house because I always
just function better when there's a lot of things happen
(10:52):
in any I could still be super focused, like I'm
focused even in all this stuff. Happening around me. But
when it's just me, I'm not good at that. And
I know that that's a thing that I have to
work on, Like you have to be okay with being
alone and being by yourself and having those alone moments,
and I just haven't mastered that.
Speaker 2 (11:10):
Yeah, I think it's amazing and super brave that because
we always share our story afterward at the victory we
passed the victory of it, you know, we're like, yeah,
I went through that and I came out on the
other side, and this is how I did it right,
And it's you know, but it's another thing to talk about.
Speaker 1 (11:24):
Man, I'm so sad right now. But it's like I
can only be honest with where I'm at right now.
It's going on. Of course, I still have my incredibly
happy moments and laugh and have fun and like success
has been great and life has been great, but this
is just like a moment of adjustment and like reframing
things and that's kind of like where I'm at. Yeah. No,
(11:45):
I'm sure there's a lot of women that can relate
to this, to this moment. Yeah, And I want to
be the person I want to use a platform like
this to talk about it because, like I said, I
never heard people talking about it. I would hear every
other issue, but I would never hear about when your
kids lead. Don't you hate it's the fucking podcast talking
about when you're geting for college. So I couldn't listened
to that.
Speaker 2 (12:05):
I feel like I've talked about it a couple of times.
I will send you some clins, but it wasn't. But
it's not because it's a very specific situation. I mean,
this shit that we never let what about parenting. I
always say, there's things that nobody ever told me about
parenting that you don't find out too.
Speaker 1 (12:21):
We see people talking about parenting, but there's things that
you just don't know until you're going it.
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Speaker 1 (13:15):
So how did that, even just becoming a mom change you? Like?
How what did you learn about that? What was your
It's just I just when I had Kienne and because
he is my only child, I just like gave my
whole everything to him, and he became, you know, my
best friend. He became everything. And you know how many
(13:36):
people be like, oh, your kid's not supposed to be
your best friend. I hear that all the time. I
guess supposed to be the disciplinarian, your kid is supposed
to fear you. They're not supposed to say, my son
is my best friend. Like, it's just what it is,
and that's the relation, sorry that we formed. And does
he have the utmost respect me? Of course he knows
I'm his mommy. He knows I'm not I'm not playing
with you, Like, at the end of the day, we
(13:56):
have a good time, but you're gonna respect me and
you're gonna respect what I have to say. But he
just that's our relationship. So it's just like, that's so
beautiful and it is great and it just took it
just became that and then you don't even remember what
life was like before that. Before it's just what is
the trick to that?
Speaker 2 (14:13):
So for people who say you can't be best friends
with your kid, because I think there probably is sometimes
some challenges.
Speaker 1 (14:19):
It can't be perfect all the time, right, I mean
there's been a couple like, he's never given me any problems.
He's just a quiet, calm, good kid. But there had
been a couple of times in his life where I
had to remind him like, yo, i'm your mom, Like
I'm not one of your friends, Like I'm your mom, Yes,
best friend, but I'm your mom first. Yeah, And I've
had to remind him, not often, but there were times.
But I think that, you know, because of our relationship,
(14:41):
it makes it easier for him to feel comfortable talking
to me about things. I want my kid to be
able to come to me and ask questions and you know,
ask advice like I love that we have that.
Speaker 2 (14:49):
Yeah, okay, so new season of your Life now because
my life.
Speaker 1 (14:54):
Empty nester, empty nest. And then the work perspective like
be a method done. So you know, I had a
cool closure there. We had a good a good run,
you know me transitioning from I went from Power right
into BMF. It's six seasons of Power and then four
seasons of BMF. So it was like that's ten almost
(15:14):
ten years of just back to back television there, and
in between I was shooting the Shy as well. The
Shy is still continuing, which is amazing. So you'll still
see me there. But you know, kind of like you said,
closing a chapter on even though BMF and Power aren't
connected to me, it's the same kind of world, you know,
on top of all of that, So it's closing that
(15:36):
chapter and figuring out, okay, what's next there. And people
just got used to seeing me on those shows, you know,
playing those characters, and now I'm stepping into something different
with the new show Group Chat that Kim and I
are producing for Hulu. It's gonna be interesting in this
new season of your Life.
Speaker 2 (15:52):
How the scales shift because at some point it's like work.
I don't know, it's like doesn't Does it give you
back what you put into it?
Speaker 1 (16:02):
Would you say that it does?
Speaker 2 (16:03):
Like do you do you feel that amount of your
life that you've put into it work? Is?
Speaker 1 (16:09):
I think in many ways yes, because I'm able to
live the life that I live because of it. You know,
I'm able to do certain things because of it. But
sometimes I'm just like this, like this is a lot.
It's okay to slow down a little bit. It's okay
to pour into you. It's okay to take that trip
that you always say no to because you gotta work
(16:30):
or you feel guilty about like you said, sitting on
a beach somewhere, when you feel like I should be working,
I should be doing this, Like it's now for me
exactly what you said, finding more of the balance. I
don't think I ever had the balance. We got to
get you some balance. I gotta get some bal You
gotta get you some balance. But it's good that I'm
recognizing it because I'm like, Okay, I got it. I
got it. First to recognize the first step is to
(16:53):
and start saying yes, like you know, get invited to
certain events or trips and be like you know what,
I'm going like cool instead of like nah, I gotta
do this or I gotta go to this this work thing,
like I'm not gonna be like fuck it, I'm going
going like I'm just going. You just went on a trip, right,
I just went on a trip to Korea, and I
was like fuck it, I'm going like I got the
call like what were you doing? Want to come to
(17:14):
just like doing all different Korean like skincare and all
like you know on TikTok everything is Korean skincare products
and finding out like what the best like cleanser and
best this is, and just I was like again, I
just said I'm going like fuck it, I'm going like
I'm not gonna look for a reason to say I can.
I'm busy. I got this or Cayenne like I'm going
(17:35):
And I had a great, great experience. It was a
two day quick trip in and out. Was it like
an old girls or yeah, it was like Kim, myself, Chloe,
a few a few other stuff, a few other of
our friends and we were just like let's roll out.
So Kim caught me like, yo, you want to go
to Korea, Like Korea. It was like, I'm out, We're going.
I love that, And I just rolled. Is it good?
(17:56):
Did you learn anything? Any good skin treatments? I did?
I brought back, man, I brought back a whole luggage
just filled with shit. I'm just like all my fathers, like,
come over and just take whatever you want. I love
that you're doing that. You gotta do trips. You gotta
live with your life, definitely. And I'm also super excited
and happy because Sierra is in New York now. You know,
Russ got traded to the Giants, so they're living in
(18:18):
New York now. And I I've been the only one
in New York for a long time out of like
my immediate friend group. Everyone's like La and other places,
so I've just been here. So it's nice to have
one of my best friends now living in New York.
Speaker 2 (18:34):
Are your friends all aware of like this state that
you're in right now? Like have you shared this with
all my closest.
Speaker 1 (18:40):
Friends I have shared with? And yeah, they're they're well,
their kids are younger right now. Yeah, their kids they
are younger. They haven't had this experience. So I'm just
like telling them, like it's just real like prepare yourself.
But what is it?
Speaker 2 (18:54):
What of your friend group or just your friends in general,
what do you think is like, ah, the best or
important friendship qualities? Like you know what I mean, because
even in these moments, you it's like you want people that.
Speaker 1 (19:08):
Yeah, I think. I think for us it's it's the support,
it's the trust. Like even just going on a trip
to Korea, like she knows how I've been feeling, and
it's like you just kids. You just get out of
New York, come to Korea. It's a crazy trip for
two days. It's a thirteen hour flight, but just come.
I'm like, all right, cool, I need it and I
needed to do that. Yeah, you know, so it's unspoken,
(19:31):
like I know that's why she told me to come
on that trip, you know what I mean. So it's
like it's unspoken, you know, whether it's Kelly or Sierra
or anyone, like the check ins or the come meet
up with us here, you know, like I know that
they're aware and they're trying me going to La now
to shoot the pilot, just getting to be around everybody
in La again, Like I am excited for That's good,
(19:53):
you know. And I also outside of my friends, I
have an incredible family, you know. Yeah, close with my family.
My cousins die to all of them, Like that's my
you know this squad, my squad. Yeah, they come stay
at the house, like they'll just pop up, like you
they probably miss kay into. Yeah they visit too, but
like that, so calm my cousin Lauren, you know news,
all of them just we here, were staying for a
(20:14):
couple of days with you. I'm like, yeah, stay there,
like yeah, we just stay and we don't want you
to be here by yourself, And like I love that,
you know it. Yeah, it means a while. And I
think everyone will find either a character or something that
they can personally relate to.
Speaker 2 (20:28):
How about like, because even like thirties and forties is
a whole different Your life in thirties and your life
in forties is a whole difference.
Speaker 1 (20:35):
It's very different.
Speaker 2 (20:36):
How has that been for you because you started sixteen?
Yeah so you you did twenties publicly, you did thirties publicly,
You're in forties now publicly, how have you transitioned? And
like dealing with age and stuff like that, how are
you managing like age?
Speaker 1 (20:53):
Yeah, that and changes and like you're the only person
who's ever asked that. Quizarly, it's such a good question
because the industry you we're in doesn't always make you
feel good about getting older. It's like you feel like
the industry can make you feel like after a certain age,
you're not relevant anymore, you're washed up, or we said
(21:15):
at the same time, or especially in an acting space
where the roles are getting cast younger and younger, or
once you reach a certain age, now you're not being
looked at as like the hot girlfriend anymore. It's like different.
So I see all that happening. So there are times
where I've struggled with it because I'm like, my whole
thing claim to fame was being on a radio at sixteen,
(21:39):
doing this at seventeen. You'll being on MTV at nineteen,
Like that was always what came behind, Like she the
youngest to ever do that, she was the youngest on
the radio. She was like that was everything. So that
when you get out of that and that's not what
people are, that's not the story anymore, you just kind
of like, don't I don't want to be the old head,
you know what I mean. But it's life, and you
get older, So I'm I'm trying to lean into it
(22:01):
with more you know, grace, and like embrace it because
it is such a blessing to be able to, you know,
get older and have the wisdom and everything that we've
been through. And just I think I'm at a place
now where outside noise and opinions don't matter to me
as much anymore. I used to really care about that stuff,
like I was always even before in the industry, like
in high school, like the girl that wanted to be
(22:24):
liked by everyone. If someone didn't like me, it's like,
well what did I do? Like why? Like I'm a
nice person, Like why don't they like me? And then
you get in this industry and people just tearing you
up twenty four to seven about anything. I just gotten
to a point where it the public perception, outside noise
just doesn't matter to me as much anymore. We all
(22:44):
say that, but sometimes that's just still cut. Sometimes it cuts.
But I've gotten better, I understand and what works for me,
So for me, I don't read the comments, you know, yeah,
because if I'm having a good day, why am I
gonna purposely fuck my day up by reading the comments
that I know are gonna tear me up, say some
crazy shit like why would I do that? And just
human beings we're going to focus on the negative is
(23:04):
one hundred thousands I love you. That is like these
and that's what we're hyper focused so on, like oh
is Peter is so unhealthy? So I'm like, I just
don't read the comments anymore, like I had to figure
out what works for me, and like I just I
just I don't even touch it, like I'm don't the
shade room posts. I do not think that is so funny.
(23:26):
If they post it about me, I'll go under and
I'll just put like them emoji or like thank you
or heart and I just get right out of it.
I will not read a comment. And sometimes Brittany's here,
my sister would be like not the actually was saying
good things about you, Like I'm like great, I just
leave it alone, like I will not do it because
you gotta know what works for you, good for you. You
(23:48):
gotta know what works for you.
Speaker 2 (23:49):
But the thing too is it is like, especially when
we've been at this for so long, it's like it's
hard because people want to compare you to an older
version of yourself. But sometimes I feel like women, whether
you're in the public eye or not, women in general,
we like we want to hold ourselves to a version
of us. It's so funny because yesterday I had this
little these shorts on. I was at Joe's house birthday
(24:11):
and had these little shorts on, and a girl said
to me it was actually Christy jim Jones, like Christy
was I had shorts.
Speaker 1 (24:18):
So she was like, you look cute. Those look good.
I was like, oh, my legs right here if I could,
and the thing, you.
Speaker 2 (24:22):
Know, and she was like, you not twenty five, those
are good And the way she said it, I was like,
because in my mind I wanted to look like the
same way they looked when I was twenty five.
Speaker 1 (24:35):
I understand that. And it was such a like a
she just said it on subit you? You like, so
what about You're not twenty five? Your legs look good?
And I was like, okay, all right.
Speaker 2 (24:45):
But we do that shitting to ourselves where we compare
ourselves to a version of ourselves from ten years ago,
twenty years ago, and it's really hard not to do that.
I just wonder for you, especially because you take a
lot of photos.
Speaker 1 (24:58):
It's really hard not to do that. Everything you just said,
it's hard not to do that. And sometimes in my
mind I feel super young, so like in my bottom
like why they're not handling me like I'm twenty five
thirty years old? Like and I'm like, because you're not,
like you know what I mean. But if you got
to remind yourself, like because like you said, sometimes I'm
stuck in that old version of me. So you do
(25:21):
deal with that. But that's why you have to get
off of caring so much about what people say and think,
cause you'll be miserable every day. There's nothing you, I,
or anyone could do that's gonna please everybody across the board.
There's not an outfit, there's not a makeup, there's not
a hairstyle that it's going to be like they all
loved it. It's never gonna happen. Oh my god. I
(25:43):
just by the way, I just did a I don't know.
I'm like, I'm not to lead.
Speaker 2 (25:47):
I'm about to lean into some other shit right now
because I just did. I just did a photo shoot
for so Far to collab with Timberland. So they asked
me to come down and I was like, normally those
things you know how it is you go in you over.
I don't want to way that. I don't like the
way this riats to take me look fat? How does
it look when I sit here?
Speaker 1 (26:05):
This hair? Does this make me? Hair? Make me look older?
Speaker 2 (26:07):
You know all that shit that we do to ourselves.
I was like, I'm gonna go have fun. I just
had a different mentality.
Speaker 1 (26:13):
I'm gonna put the.
Speaker 2 (26:14):
Crazy out for you want to put on right, Let's
just see, let's just try it. Hey, guys, it's Angie.
Thank you so much for watching the pod today.
Speaker 1 (26:21):
We appreciate you. I cannot believe summer is over.
Speaker 2 (26:24):
We are in a new season, and for me that
means doing some updating in my house when the season changes.
I like to do something fresh, even if it's something small.
I was just saying recently, I just changed some of
the doorknobs in my home and that makes a really
big difference in the house.
Speaker 1 (26:38):
But also like storing things.
Speaker 2 (26:40):
From last season that you're not gonna wear that stuff
up your closet. They have great bins of all sizes
at Wayfair. I'll get some bins that put stuff under
the bedd I get some bins to just pack up
seasonal clothes that I know I'm not gonna wear for
a long time. Very easy stuff to get at Wayfair. Also,
my son just went away to college. We got a
lot of stuff for packing and storage there, and also
(27:03):
I bought a few things to refresh the room so
I could use it while he's gone. It's a little
kind of place for me, so I got a new
rug in there. It looks great. So yeah, Wayfair is
great for all of those type of things, and they
have something for every room.
Speaker 1 (27:14):
They have something for every budget.
Speaker 2 (27:17):
Get organized, refreshed, and back to routine whatever your routine is.
For way less at Wayfair, you can head to wayfair
dot com right now and shop all things home that's
w a y fai r dot com. Wayfair every style,
every home the dair style is wanted to put I
don't ever wear wigs. I wear extensions wigs and some
(27:37):
people will love them.
Speaker 1 (27:38):
It's for me. I just it's not my thing.
Speaker 2 (27:40):
I never realized it was a wig girl, right, I
will wear extension or I do clippings or something like that.
They wanted to put me in a wig. I was like, Okay,
fuck it, let's try it. They pulled up some photos
of me from back in the day. They were like,
you used to do this color, Let's try it.
Speaker 1 (27:53):
I was like, Okay, fuck it, let's do it.
Speaker 2 (27:55):
And then they were putting me in clothes I would
never pick for myself, and it was I think it's
really good.
Speaker 1 (28:02):
I'm like yeah, And everybody was like, oh, this is fire.
I gotta spot. I'll show you show why now, don't
show you what now.
Speaker 2 (28:12):
But my point was just like you had to surrender.
I had to surrender, and it was so much more fun.
Speaker 1 (28:18):
Yeah. And now, granted it could have gone bad. It
could have, but I still had so much fun. Yeah.
You know what I'm saying. It's like something I had
gone loud. My god, it's like a whole production.
Speaker 2 (28:35):
You hear Brittany's voice in the background that they come out, okay,
here's cut.
Speaker 1 (28:40):
Hold on, yeah, yes, why not right? How you hear this?
Your color? I love this?
Speaker 2 (28:53):
You know? No?
Speaker 1 (28:55):
But I had too much fun. But don't you love that?
Speaker 2 (28:58):
No?
Speaker 1 (28:58):
I had so much fun. I love that you just
let yourself be free and experienced like I would never
We don't know. Not the head though. I was like, mofu,
this not the hat? Oh yeah, the red hair, the
red orange anyway, point what stop? Get out of you?
(29:19):
Please go. I just like your hair that color for sure.
Point is is that it was like, let me just
go and lean in and have fun and like not
micromanage or think about this isn't gonna work, or worry
about how it's gonna somebody else is gonna think it.
Look that's what I mean. Should she be in that hair? Yeah?
Or what she just trying to look like he's twenty five?
Speaker 2 (29:38):
Like, No, I didn't care, like I just and honestly,
it's a testament to the energy on set.
Speaker 1 (29:44):
Have you ever met tell phar Yeah, and I have.
You know his energy is beautiful maybe yeah, yeah, so like,
and he just made you feel confident, and everybody in
the room was super like just it was good energy
and sometimes you just gotta lean into the energy of
a space.
Speaker 2 (29:57):
I love that And so yeah, I went a little
bit out of my comfort zone. But I had so
much fun. I told him I'm start dressing like this
old not but like I'm just gonna start just wearing good.
Speaker 1 (30:08):
So I can't wait for this that's dropping soon. I
can't wait. I can't wait. So cool that I can't
wait do you do stuff like that?
Speaker 2 (30:14):
Off, it was the last time you leaned into something
that is completely out of character for you.
Speaker 1 (30:18):
I would say, like a lot of times with the
wigs and stuff with arrogant ay, he's always like, no,
you about to try this, We're doing this, and he
doesn't even give me a choice. There's not even a conversation,
like you're putting this on, and then afterwards, I'm like,
with ice blue hair, something crazy, but I'm like, I
like it, Like it just feels fun and freeing, and
like I'm out it. He's like, if you wear another
(30:40):
fucking ponytail, half a half down, Like I'm sick of
seeing that look half a bad dab. I'm sick of
seeing that. Like I'm like, all right, So he's the
person that pushes me out of my comfort zone just
to have fun and try different things.
Speaker 2 (30:54):
But part of that also is it's having people that
push you, which is great, but also it's like allowing
yourself self, Yeah, be free because because you have to
do like what you said, you have to not care
about the outside, because if you live your life on
how the outside is perceived, you don't even allow yourself
to be free.
Speaker 1 (31:12):
I don't even allow yourself to be free. And like
I said, this industry makes you feel like after a
certain age, like what do he wants to be doing?
Like turtlenecket, Like what do we like after so like
why she's she's a mom? She's like what does that mean?
Like you can't lean into your sexiness, you can't be free,
you can't have fun, Like I just never understood that.
But it starts. Yeah, it's like nah, fuck that, Like
(31:32):
I'm gonna be who I am? Word love that for you. Yeah,
I can't wait, d see my whole Shoot, that's how
I can't wait.
Speaker 2 (31:39):
Oh, we should talk about this work that you're doing
with reform.
Speaker 1 (31:42):
Years ago I did a panel.
Speaker 2 (31:44):
It was actually the Obama administration brought me in to
speak at this reform panel. That was my introduction to
the space. And I wasn't as educated as I wish
I had been for a long time. I mean, I
knew the system, right, I knew a lot of things,
but I just learned a lot when I went in
for that, And I made a lot of friends in
this And I think what has what drew me to
it is the idea of redemption.
Speaker 1 (32:06):
I believe in it.
Speaker 2 (32:08):
You know, and so I think a lot of times
people get thrown away, and they get thrown a system,
and then the system's not set up for them to
bounce back or to help them at all anyway. So
when I see this work that you're doing, I'm like, Wow,
that's super dope.
Speaker 1 (32:20):
But yeah, so for me it was. You know, the
name of my program is three sixty and we're based
in Rikers Island. We're in the R and DC Building,
which is a building that houses the younger population, so
young men ages eighteen or twenty one. So for me,
I always felt more connected to that age group because
of Cayenne, Like I felt like these are Kyanne's friends,
(32:41):
it's peers, like I can talk to them the way
I talked to Kyen, And I felt like at that
age there was still a chance to change the mentality,
change the way of thinking. So we run a program
inside Rikers Island. We go in there like twice a
week with mentorship, how to conduct yourself in a job, interview,
just self esteem, anything you could think of. We're tackling it.
(33:03):
And then when the guys are released, some of them
have to go, you know, upstate to do a significant
amount of time. But the ones that are able to
come home, we set them up with jobs, we help
them with housing, like anything that they need, and we've
seen so much incredible success and to me, like that's
the most fulfilling work for me. Like and I myself
(33:23):
am going into Rikers Island all the time, Like there's
never been someone that spend more time in Rikers Island
on the outside than I have. Like I'm there. They'll
tell you we see lat here all the time. It's
just like that's become you know, take bridge over there,
you take that little bridge, that bridge of like here
we go and going there and just seeing the work
that's happening is so like powerful. What's the best story
(33:46):
you have from that? So I don't know. Best story
I have is a kid name we call him Rondo's
name is Michael. He was incarcerated Rikers Island and I
remember he was in my program, and I was like,
there's just something like you always know when it's something different.
They're all special, but you always know when there's something
a little bit different. And I called Jessica Jackson from
(34:06):
Reform a Line who works with Michael Rubin, and I said,
you got to come in here and see this kid,
like this is different. So she came with me, met
with him and said, when you get out, I'm going
to have a job for you, Like there's something so
special about you. He got out on a Thursday. That Monday,
he started at Reform. Who's you know, Jay Meek, Michael Rubin,
all of them he started at Reform. Now he's the
(34:27):
head of their entire gen Z division, pushing for policy
change all over the United States. Has spoken on panels
with Kim and little Baby and Michael Rubin and it
just got a full scholarship to Columbia University. Like it's incredible.
And when I saw him, he was a former gang member,
like just defeated, didn't know what he was doing with
his life. So to see him now, I see him
(34:48):
all the time, Like he spends Christmases with me and
my family Thanksgivings, like he's just part of our family now.
But to see how his life has just changed, that's
like one of my most successful, powerful stories. That's beautiful.
Love that.
Speaker 2 (35:01):
Yeah, Dad makes the comments section feel a little less
right exactly.
Speaker 1 (35:07):
It's like, come on, we all here doing real work,
like changing lives, and you know, even for the kids
that unfortunately have you know, I have eighteen year olds
facing life and the kids that have to go upstate,
Like I always feel like I hope even if they
kept a little piece of what I told them or
taught them or whatever, like, as they continue on their journey,
I feel like I did my job because unfortunately a
(35:29):
lot of them don't get the opportunity to come out.
I got kids fifteen years, twenty years. The numbers in
my mind just keep getting bigger, Like it's very rare
I meet someone that's like, I got a year, I
got two years. It's like to the point now of
a kid tells me, you know, I got eight years,
I'm like, oh, that's all right, Like you could do that.
Like eight years feels like a small number now because
everything is double digits and that. But I always feel
(35:49):
like even when they go and leave the program, because
I try to still keep in touch with them upstate,
like and they'll repeace stuff to me, like when you
told me that, that just stuck with me, and I'm
like wow, Like it's the littlest things times you don't
even think makes an impact on somebody that really does.
How many kids are in the program, so generally we
have like fifteen or twenty at a time because it's
a smaller group. But you know they're constantly rotating in
(36:10):
and out when they go upstate or new people come in.
So but fifteen or twenty at a time, that's beautiful. Man. Yeah, wow,
wow wow, Yeah, you gotta come up there. I will
allow you that we talked about. I just said a date.
Let's listen it. I would love love for you to Yeah,
I would love that. Yeah, that would be great on
the little bus that goes Aquosy. I've been up to
records a lot of times. I did I used.
Speaker 2 (36:29):
I've done a lot of time with the women with women. Yeahs,
I would love that.
Speaker 1 (36:33):
She just set that up. Okay, good, Okay? In real life?
Should we do the bowl is boll time? That's fun.
Speaker 2 (36:39):
I have a bowl of questions in the bowl la
la oh god these are in real life.
Speaker 1 (36:45):
Question here we go? Okay, I don't know? Am I? Oh?
I like this? What is it when I walk in
a room. I want people to feel blank when I
walk in a room, I want people to feel happy,
like I just want to be that person at like
when people see me, it's like happiness like, oh, there's
a lot like they're happy about it. I think you
(37:05):
do that, Thank you, I try. I think you do that.
I think people are genuinely happy to see. Let's do
what more? Okay more, let me see. Uh, if you
could instantly master any skill, what would it be? And
I don't know, you know what's funny, I don't know
if this is a skill. But you're going to be
surprised by his answer. Okay, I'm excited love. Oh if
(37:27):
I can master that, I should I'll be perfect. But
if I can master that, all right, I'll be perfect. Well,
let's be honest, is that a skill? No? I was
going to ask, how many people do you know that
have mastered love? I don't think anyone's mastered it. I
don't think anyone's ever mastered it. But I do you know,
(37:48):
there was a time where I felt like I didn't
really know or see people that were happy with love.
That has changed, like now I do feel like I
didn't really have ever have examples of that girling up.
But I do have examples of that now, like where
I could look at certain relationships like no, they're actually
like genuinely happy, like this is a good well, what
(38:08):
do they do? How do they get it right? Like,
what is the thing? Have you figured that out? Well?
I just thought to see her about all ye's super happy, Yeah,
super and like got it right. And definitely if you
were to ask her, she would say, you know, it's
primarily because God is at the center of their relationship
and date nights and putting each other first and communication
all of those things. When you have to find someone
(38:30):
that's equally yoked with you in that sense. I still
think it's it's it's always going to be work. It's
never like a care free kind of thing. But I
would just like, I don't know, you never master it.
Maybe you can better at it. That's so funny because
we just our last guests, we had Asia and Israel here.
I saw that and they same thing. They got it right.
(38:53):
They're so happy and really happy.
Speaker 2 (38:55):
Yeah, you could tell. And God is at the center
of it. They make time for check in.
Speaker 1 (39:01):
Date night nights, all the things.
Speaker 2 (39:03):
There are some threads that when you speak with people
who have gotten it right and are truly happy.
Speaker 1 (39:08):
And yesterday the trainer I was telling you about, the
one that keeps me going to them. She got married yesterday,
which is so crazy that I went to her wedding
and even the vows, everything was God at the center
of everything, Like this is the first time I went
to a wedding where they washed each other's feet and
like did it all. And I was like, wow, this
is different. But God at the center. God at the
center every single time.
Speaker 2 (39:29):
Yeah, for sure, it's funny we're talking about because we
talking about Adrian and that whole thing. We also had
Evonne who was telling the story about meeting her husband
and the state that she had to be in because
she said she had stopped dating because she was tired
of like the guys and she's like, I was living
in LA and the guys were like, you know, I
like you, you like me. Let's see how this goes.
Speaker 1 (39:50):
Situation ships, right, situation, and she just was like over it.
Speaker 2 (39:54):
She was like, I wanted something grown up. I wanted
something real, And so she had to make it. She
had to make a decision to shift, and so she
just shut everything down. And then she met him and
she said she reverted. She went back to like when
he first called it, she was like, you know, cause
I'm seeing some few people and he was like, all right,
we'll call me when that changes, she was like.
Speaker 1 (40:16):
Okay, all right, o man, right, okay, growl man.
Speaker 2 (40:21):
But I think I think there's something too that, like
making a decision for the type of love you want
in your life so that you set the.
Speaker 1 (40:29):
Sierra always talks about that. She does this is my
guru for all. She always talks about like she's just
like you have to envision it, like every part of it,
like how you want it to be, what you wanted
to look like, like you have to write it down.
You have to like feel it, like you have to
like it. She really like steps into that. Do you
feel like you're going to get this right?
Speaker 2 (40:50):
You had to put money on yourself if you had
to bet on yourself, you were outside betting on law.
Speaker 1 (40:56):
Do you think you're going to get this right? I
think that I have to believe that I am. The
only way to get it right is to believe that
I can and that I will. Otherwise what am I
doing it for? Like just to fail?
Speaker 2 (41:13):
Like?
Speaker 1 (41:13):
What am I doing it for? I have to believe that? So, yes,
what do you think it will take from you? From me? Uh?
Speaker 2 (41:23):
Because we always think about what the person has to
do the other person? Yeah, like yeah, the person has
to do, but we don't always talk. Yeah, I think
what would we have? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (41:30):
No, And I have thought about that because when you
know things didn't work out in my marriage, you have
to look at things and take accountability, like for whatever
you could have done better. You know, you have to
look at the whole thing. It's funny. I think I
saw your interview with uh Tiana. She was talking a
little bit about that. But for me, I think the balance,
(41:53):
the balance, the balance of like being okay with it's
not even like putting somebody else before me, but like
the balance like where they feel like a priority or
they are a priority, and it's not after work and
after this and after that. You know, I think that
that's probably something I can be better at in real life.
Speaker 2 (42:14):
This might be tricky because of this actual moment that
you're in, but in real life, how happy are you
on a scale of one to ten?
Speaker 1 (42:21):
Generally? Maybe not right now because of Cayenne leaving. Generally
I would say I'm a strong eight. Yeah, I would
say a strong eight, A strong eight. I would love
to be at ten, but I'm a strong usually a
eight eight, like I can live and they're talking about
right now today today, today, I'm like at a five,
(42:43):
at a five, but only because of what's happening with Cayenne.
It's not like I feel like my life is bad
or yeah, I'm just like that's the reason. It's like
that our kid, like the Cayenne thing. You missed your son.
I missed him so much. That's okay, so much any
mother can understand. Yes, And it doesn't mean that the
parts of my life aren't great and amazing or that
you're not grateful for those Exactly, yeah, exactly. How often
(43:07):
in real life, how often do you think about your legacy?
That's a great question. I won't say I think about
it often. I feel like I think about it the
most when I am doing the prison reform work. Like
I'm sitting there like these kids, these young men are
(43:28):
like hanging on to my every word, Like if I
say this is how it is, they really believe that
this is how it is, and there's such a responsibility
that comes with that. And I don't take that lightly.
I don't take that for granted. So in those moments,
I'm like, I'm really leaving a legacy that these kids
could say I impacted and affected their life in this way,
like it's a big deal to me. So in those moments,
(43:51):
I'm like, Wow, this is powerful work and not that
my other work isn't, but like entertaining is cool, but
this is like people's lives and like you helping them
with direction in their life. It's just that's when I
think about legacy.
Speaker 2 (44:05):
Yeah, my brain just went tend different places because I wonder,
because I know Kim does a lot of reform work,
have you brought her down at all?
Speaker 1 (44:13):
And then I thought could she be at Riker's? And
that be crazy, like does she could come to Rikers?
She hasn't come yet with me, but she could come
to write. I don't mean that in any way.
Speaker 2 (44:20):
It's just that and this is a whole other topic.
It's like there's like levels of fame.
Speaker 1 (44:26):
Yeah, no, it's a real No, no, it's a real thing.
It's a real thing. It's a real life, like understand
what you can do.
Speaker 2 (44:33):
It's that's not only it's safe and not just for
yourself but for other people even.
Speaker 1 (44:39):
Like you have to move 're moving around. Yes, it's
end of different. It's different. No, it's really different. It's different. Yes,
it is levels you're right, but she can come to
Rikers and has been super interested in coming and support it.
We just got to get her out here and in there.
But she does a lot of you know, reform work
as well, and you know, with her becoming a lawyer,
(45:00):
now there's so many things that I can ask her
from a legal perspective, like with certain people's cases, like
what does this mean? And like she knows, like he
really knows. He's like, okay, this is that. This is
how you translate that. I'm like, this is like my
own like pocket lawyer that I got all the time,
which is incredible. So it is so helpful. What are
you most proud about of yourself? I'm most proud of
(45:24):
you that I the things that I've went through and
that I still here, I still could have a positive
outlook on life, love, relationships, whatever it is, despite what
you know I went through, Like a lot of that
stuff could harden somebody, could make somebody really bitter, like
I never allowed that to happen. I remember speaking of
(45:45):
friends like Sierra. I remember one day I did an
interview I think it was with like Charlemagne and they
were like, you know, would you ever get married again?
And I was like no, like I'm never getting married again.
It's not for me. And she called me and was like,
stop saying that, Like words have so much power, like
stop putting it out there, like whatever God has meant
for you, it's gonna be like stop saying that, like
(46:06):
so definitely like and she checked me in a real way,
in a loving way, but in a real way, and
I had to stop and think, like she's right. And
since then, I've stopped saying that, like I don't know
what the future holds for me. I don't know what
it's gonna be, but I'm not gonna put that out there.
And understanding how much power our words have on us
(46:26):
and how we approach certain things. And she really gave
me an understanding.
Speaker 2 (46:31):
Of that, probably protecting yourself too, yeah, just guarding yourself.
Speaker 1 (46:34):
Yeah, and that's I was like, man, I want I
was like, ah, we skim over that. But it's like
people don't realize that.
Speaker 2 (46:43):
I've always said this, like people don't talk about how
bad and we don't prepare ourselves to like heartbreak.
Speaker 1 (46:49):
It's how you was like nobody told us.
Speaker 2 (46:53):
Nobody told me as a mom, I'm gonna miss my kids,
and that I feel like for young people, you get
into bad relationships or you or a marriage that doesn't
work out, Like how challenging that could be to your life.
And we hear it heartbreak, and we know people have
gone to jail for it, they've murdered for it or whatever,
but like really like the depths of that feeling of like,
(47:14):
I'm sure there's moments after everything that happened that you
probably didn't want to get up off of floor.
Speaker 1 (47:20):
Yeah, of course, the hardest part of my life. And
then playing it out publicly, so then you have that
part like to where they're watching it she looks as
she looks depressed, like they're watching everything. So then you
have like the fake smile like no, I'm good, everything's okay,
and you're like fucking dying inside and you're just like,
I'm all right, But it is. It is incredibly you know, hard,
(47:42):
incredibly hard, But what are you gonna do? You got
to push forward, like every day a little bit, a
little bit stronger, stronger, stronger, until you get past it.
And there are days could be years later where it'll
something will just hit you and it'll just hurt or
you remind you of something because nobody gets me. I
always says, nobody gets married with the thought of getting divorced.
(48:04):
You don't marry somebody thinking I'm gonna get divorced. You
marry somebody thinking that's who are gonna be with for
the rest of your life. And this is your life.
Someone that changes, It's like, oh, what do I do now?
I wasn't prepared for this. This is not what I
thought was gonna happen. But you have to and you
and you have to keep going. You got to live.
You have a child or women out there with children
like you got to keep going. And you're not the
(48:25):
first person. By the way, Gee, well, my mom tells
me all the time, you know, I know, my moll
tells you all the time, like all the like during
when it was going to like and you won't be
the last. I'm like, my damn you, Like you're not
the person. You won't be the last. I'm like, all right,
So you just watching you guys like do an interview
with your son at this point, right, like, yeah, you
(48:46):
got you did something right, you got something right, and
I'm and I'm proud of that. I'm proud of that.
And if that's what that was supposed to be, then
we did a hell of a job at that.
Speaker 2 (48:56):
What is the number one thing you could what the
number one advice you could give this someone who's on
the other side of the divorce or going through it
and starting the journey of co parenting.
Speaker 1 (49:06):
It does get better. It is hard, you know in
the beginning. But just remember every single thing you do,
your kid is watching and looking at that and forming
their own ideas and opinions about how parents should be.
A relationship are or love is, and I never wanted
Cayenne to have like a messed up view or version
(49:28):
of that. It's like it didn't work out, but we
still are family. We still love you, We still love
each other, and we're going to be there for you
no matter what. That was so important to the both
of us that he saw that because how we acted
was going to affect how he is in relationships. He's
eighteen now having his he has a girlfriend. Now you know,
do exactly doing his own thing. Like we wanted to
(49:48):
be a good example when it came to that. So
just remember the kids are watching everything.
Speaker 2 (49:54):
How you dealing with the girlfriend? How's that this first girlfriend?
He has a girlfriend? Yes, he has a girlfriend. How's
that first how's that going.
Speaker 1 (50:00):
It's going well. I really like her. I think he's
made a great choice. I'm just like, we're here now.
My kid has a girlfriend. His first girlfriend is like
but like girlfriend where it's like, Mom, this is my girlfriend,
and like brought her home to meet me. Yes, this
is the first time. How did that go on the
first meeting? It wasn't great? It wasn't great. I mean,
(50:22):
she's a great girl. He seems super I think is
if he's happy. I'm happy, Like he seems happy, she's great.
Like i'd be like, who is you? Yes see No,
I'm like I'm like, yeah, you know, I'm just what
are you thinking? Let me see who this girl? Attention? Okay,
I think I know I don't always have it right,
but I think I know some of the signs are
(50:42):
like the red flags and haven't seen that? Thank God?
Thank God? All right, before we go, last I r
L question, Oh not from the ball? Yeah, take the ball?
Speaker 2 (50:51):
Okay, take it from the ball? Okay, okay, pick whichever
one you want to that resonates. Wow, it was a
good One's questions?
Speaker 1 (51:02):
Is it a good one? Is it my favorite one?
Maybe it's my favorite? If God were to text you
right now, what would it What would it say?
Speaker 2 (51:10):
That's my favorite question in that bowl, and I swear
it just comes every time.
Speaker 1 (51:15):
I think that if God were to text me, it
would say I've never been asked that, it would say
I got you. I think it would just say I
got you, like I got you, and that's enough for me.
That's enough to make me feel like I got this.
I can go through anything I can. It's it's okay.
(51:35):
I think that's that's what. That's all the kind of
strength I would need. Lalah, thank you. This was awesome. Hey,
what's up? Everybody? Is La La Anthony and this is
in real life.
Speaker 2 (51:49):
For more episodes, you know to do subscribe like comments
and we'll see you on the next I r L
podcast
I'm not an emotional person. That's right, You're not, even
though are like lately than I've ever seen you cry. Ever, yeah,
it'd be the kid that doesn't. Kid. This has just
been so so hard. But I know that I'll get
through it. Of course you will. Yeah, it's just of
course you will.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
And you're gonna be surprised too, because usually after that
first year, and I heard this from a lot of moms,
they come home and they're like a little different because
now they've had this like I don't know, independence, and
it's like fun to like see that evolution for them, right,
And you'll enjoy that process, but man, it is it
be your kid. This episode of IRL podcast is powered
(00:46):
by boost Mobile.
Speaker 1 (00:47):
All right, guys, I'm excited about today's episode. I can't
believe it's taking her so long to get here. I'm
so happy. But today we have actress, producer, entrepreneur.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
She has built a career spanning TV, film, beauty, fashion,
from early days radio MTV to television power BMF, The Shy.
Speaker 1 (01:08):
There's more. There's many minutes more.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
She is also like one of the most recognizable and
relatable voices in entertainment.
Speaker 1 (01:14):
She is also a very proud mom.
Speaker 2 (01:18):
She's a published author, best selling author, and she has
gracefully navigated public love, heartbreak, and reinvention all in front
of our eyes.
Speaker 1 (01:28):
Well a lot, Anthony. They can't want an intro thank
you hi, true, but I love that, and you know
it's so funny as I'm saying all that, And even
when you came in today, I was like, Yo, We've
had so many great interviews over the years, and.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
Really it's because, like I said there, you have lived
like your life has been really public for a really
long time, but you also know how to navigate those waters.
Speaker 1 (01:54):
So I don't always know, like I learn as I go.
I learn as I go. What season are you in now?
Right now? So I think for me, I'm in a
very interesting season of my life. Cayenne has officially left
for college, and I keep telling people that it's just
(02:15):
something that I don't think I heard enough people talk about,
or like maybe I just wasn't prepared for it. Like
you hear conversations about everything that people go through in life.
For some reason, I wasn't private to the conversations about
when your kid leaves for college, when your only child
leaves for college, and like that void and you know, sorry,
(02:38):
but like the void and the emptiness and just like
literally one day he's there and then one day he's
just not. And when he left also like how long
has he been gone? So he's been gone now for
about I would say, like a month, and you know
when he left is like I just feel like and
(03:00):
the house kind of just left, because my house has
always been the fun house, all his friends and music
and just fun all the time, and then he just
left and it just got quiet. And that has been
really really hard for me. And I'm not embarrassed to
say it, or like I'm leaning into it so I
can understand what that feeling is and try to like
(03:21):
move past it and get to whatever the other side is.
But right now I'm so deep in that feeling and
it's been hard. Yeah, did you not expect it? I
don't know what I expected. Like I think that obviously
I always he was going to go to college, but
it always seems so far away, and then as it
even got closer, I'm like, well still another month. Still,
Like I was just savoring all that time, and I
(03:42):
guess I didn't just realize just what avoided was an impact,
Like it was gonna happen. Like I said, it's not
something like I'm never in conversations with people and that's
what people are talking about. I don't know if I'm
not running with a different crowd, but I don't talk
to people that are like, prepare yourself. This is how
it is, or this is how we should have talked more.
We should have talked more. We should have sure.
Speaker 2 (04:04):
Talked more, because I definitely had. I think before Nico left,
I had maybe like I was six months in preparation
for him leaving. I was like sad and almost it
was weird because it was almost like things.
Speaker 1 (04:18):
I was just like irritable and said like I.
Speaker 2 (04:20):
Had built up so much before he left, right because
I was anticipating it, which I think maybe you weren't
even I was right, So I had been anticipating it,
and then when he left, I was I remember telling,
you know, my friend's Shaka, not Zulu, Chaka Pilgrim. I
was telling Chaka Pilgrim. I said, Nicos, I gotta take
him to school. I'm gonna I'm gonna lose it. I'm
gonna be a mess. And she was like, no, you're not,
(04:42):
and I was like, no, I am she was like, no,
you're not.
Speaker 1 (04:44):
I was like, what do you mean.
Speaker 2 (04:45):
She was like, imagine for him, this is the first
time he's not he's leaving home. He's not going to
be living in the house. He's walking into a new place,
and you don't want to add to that. And it
had that had an even I was so, I was
so in myral how I was feeling about it. I was, oh, shit, okay,
you're right. I don't want to do that to him.
So I went I dropped him off.
Speaker 1 (05:03):
I was fine. Of course, I was a little emo
on the way home.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
But then I realized, like, they don't go anywhere, you know,
I'm saying, like, okay, tve me that, so.
Speaker 1 (05:17):
I don't you know, we facetimed a lot. We I
felt like the conversations.
Speaker 2 (05:21):
Were more meaningful on the phone and longer before it
would be like if he called me because he needed sover,
Hey Mom, I'm trying out here. But now because he's away,
when we would be on the phone, the conversations just
a little stronger and more meaningful because and then they
come home for the holidays and you still miss them,
but they still come home and you're still their mother
and you guys are so close. It's just it's just
(05:45):
an adjustment. There's no easy answer, but it is you
you are okay, and you realize like your bond is
not going in where.
Speaker 1 (05:53):
I don't know if that helps that it's because I'm
talking to somebody who's been through it, so it's like
I'm really listening to your words because you've been through it.
Speaker 2 (06:00):
And then it started to just become more comfortable. I
can't expect, like this the new norm.
Speaker 1 (06:04):
It's like the new norm. Yeah, in a weird way.
I'm just praying that. So you're like, I get there.
You're like in the early stages of it noon And
like you said, I don't want to put that pressure
on him because it's not his responsibility to take care
of me or make sure I'm good. So like I
always try to like I'm okay. I think one time
it was one night, it was like two o'clock in
the morning. I couldn't sleep and I called him and
(06:27):
I just started crying. He's like, no, are you don't care?
Like I He's like, I can't come home right now.
I have like basketball practice I got. I was like,
but that it only happened once, so and then I
like pulled it together. But see I get sad.
Speaker 2 (06:46):
Just oh but how great is that that you have
a love that strong that he knows that you love
him that bad?
Speaker 1 (06:53):
You know what I'm saying, Like that you unraveled that way. Yeah,
I tell you I'm not an emotional person. It's just right,
you're not, even though more like lately than I've ever
seen you cry. Ever, Yeah, it'd be the kid that doesn't. Kid,
this has just been so so hard, but I know
that I'll get through it. Of course you will. Yeah,
(07:14):
it's just of course you will.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
And you're gonna be surprised too, because usually after that
first year, and I heard this from a lot of moms,
they come home and they're like a little different because
now they've had this like I don't know, independence, and
it's like fun to like see that evolution for them, right,
and you'll enjoy that process, But man, it is it'd
be your kid.
Speaker 1 (07:39):
Just figure it out, Like you know what this next
chapter looks like? Me too? You know that part that
part had you thought about that before or no? I
feel like I mean I always think about like work
and what I have coming up, but not in this
way to where like I come home and he's like
not there. Like I would work and know that when
I got home, he's there. You know, we would plan
(08:00):
our evenings or whatever we're going to do. And now
it's like I could come off of you know, a
trip or doing some work somewhere and get off the
plane and come home and it's just like quiet. So
it's just adjusting to that, but also finding things that
I enjoy doing or that I want to do in
my spare time because my life has always just been working, Cayenne,
(08:21):
I never had like I never made a life for
myself in between that. It was always work.
Speaker 2 (08:26):
And Kyane, really that's so interesting because you are known
right as different, like yeah, you have so many your
so many friends, you have like just a full life
you would seen.
Speaker 1 (08:38):
But life was always has always been about work, and
I'm able to be a great friend of people. It
doesn't change because I'm working all the time. But I've
never been a person taking trips all the time on
vacations or like like that person. I used to always
feel guilty about that, Like I used to be like
I gotta work, Like I don't have time to be
sitting on a beach somewhere. I'll be on Instagram like,
(08:58):
how is everybody always on a fucking vacation? Like this
is crazy, I'm on set. I'm more like everybody's just
But I just never did that and never allow myself
time to really find things that I really enjoy it.
You know how people are like, well, what are you
doing your free time or what do you do to unwind?
Like yeah, I never really had the answer to that
because it was always like I'll mean with Cayenne or
(09:20):
I'm you know, like I'm working or I'm working. So
now it's like finding those things and I am excited
to find that because I do need to find stuff
to fill that time and to avoid when I'm not working.
And also I've been working for so long. Do you
feel like you've neglected yourself in a way. I definitely
feel like I've neglected myself. I feel like I've worked
(09:42):
so hard to probably in some ways avoid like dealing
with life stuff like if I'm always working, then I
don't have to pay attention to feel in this way
or different things that I went through, whether it was
publicly or privately, or what happened, you know, in my
relationship or whatever it's like just keep working, just keep working.
Then you could be distracted. You can not have to
deal with that. But at some point it all comes
(10:05):
back around and you have to face it and deal
with it. There's only so many shows I could be on.
Everyone's like, oh we think about lolaves, you gonna find
a job, you gonna find a check, You're gonna find this.
There's only so much of that. Or it's like, no,
you gotta deal with some of this stuff and you
gotta be okay with being with yourself. But what do
you do when it's quiet? Like how do do you
have a quiet thing that you do?
Speaker 2 (10:26):
Like comfortable quiet, like if somebody just flopped you on
a beach by yourself.
Speaker 1 (10:30):
I'm not comfortable quiet, really, and I'm not comfortable alone.
I always have been the person that's around so many people,
So I created that environment in my house to be
like that, which is why it's Kyanne's friends. You know,
they open in the fridge cooking with they like that's
always been the environment at the house because I always
just function better when there's a lot of things happen
(10:52):
in any I could still be super focused, like I'm
focused even in all this stuff. Happening around me. But
when it's just me, I'm not good at that. And
I know that that's a thing that I have to
work on, Like you have to be okay with being
alone and being by yourself and having those alone moments,
and I just haven't mastered that.
Speaker 2 (11:10):
Yeah, I think it's amazing and super brave that because
we always share our story afterward at the victory we
passed the victory of it, you know, we're like, yeah,
I went through that and I came out on the
other side, and this is how I did it right,
And it's you know, but it's another thing to talk about.
Speaker 1 (11:24):
Man, I'm so sad right now. But it's like I
can only be honest with where I'm at right now.
It's going on. Of course, I still have my incredibly
happy moments and laugh and have fun and like success
has been great and life has been great, but this
is just like a moment of adjustment and like reframing
things and that's kind of like where I'm at. Yeah. No,
(11:45):
I'm sure there's a lot of women that can relate
to this, to this moment. Yeah, And I want to
be the person I want to use a platform like
this to talk about it because, like I said, I
never heard people talking about it. I would hear every
other issue, but I would never hear about when your
kids lead. Don't you hate it's the fucking podcast talking
about when you're geting for college. So I couldn't listened
to that.
Speaker 2 (12:05):
I feel like I've talked about it a couple of times.
I will send you some clins, but it wasn't. But
it's not because it's a very specific situation. I mean,
this shit that we never let what about parenting. I
always say, there's things that nobody ever told me about
parenting that you don't find out too.
Speaker 1 (12:21):
We see people talking about parenting, but there's things that
you just don't know until you're going it.
Speaker 2 (12:25):
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Speaker 1 (13:15):
So how did that, even just becoming a mom change you? Like?
How what did you learn about that? What was your
It's just I just when I had Kienne and because
he is my only child, I just like gave my
whole everything to him, and he became, you know, my
best friend. He became everything. And you know how many
(13:36):
people be like, oh, your kid's not supposed to be
your best friend. I hear that all the time. I
guess supposed to be the disciplinarian, your kid is supposed
to fear you. They're not supposed to say, my son
is my best friend. Like, it's just what it is,
and that's the relation, sorry that we formed. And does
he have the utmost respect me? Of course he knows
I'm his mommy. He knows I'm not I'm not playing
with you, Like, at the end of the day, we
(13:56):
have a good time, but you're gonna respect me and
you're gonna respect what I have to say. But he
just that's our relationship. So it's just like, that's so
beautiful and it is great and it just took it
just became that and then you don't even remember what
life was like before that. Before it's just what is
the trick to that?
Speaker 2 (14:13):
So for people who say you can't be best friends
with your kid, because I think there probably is sometimes
some challenges.
Speaker 1 (14:19):
It can't be perfect all the time, right, I mean
there's been a couple like, he's never given me any problems.
He's just a quiet, calm, good kid. But there had
been a couple of times in his life where I
had to remind him like, yo, i'm your mom, Like
I'm not one of your friends, Like I'm your mom, Yes,
best friend, but I'm your mom first. Yeah, And I've
had to remind him, not often, but there were times.
But I think that, you know, because of our relationship,
(14:41):
it makes it easier for him to feel comfortable talking
to me about things. I want my kid to be
able to come to me and ask questions and you know,
ask advice like I love that we have that.
Speaker 2 (14:49):
Yeah, okay, so new season of your Life now because
my life.
Speaker 1 (14:54):
Empty nester, empty nest. And then the work perspective like
be a method done. So you know, I had a
cool closure there. We had a good a good run,
you know me transitioning from I went from Power right
into BMF. It's six seasons of Power and then four
seasons of BMF. So it was like that's ten almost
(15:14):
ten years of just back to back television there, and
in between I was shooting the Shy as well. The
Shy is still continuing, which is amazing. So you'll still
see me there. But you know, kind of like you said,
closing a chapter on even though BMF and Power aren't
connected to me, it's the same kind of world, you know,
on top of all of that, So it's closing that
(15:36):
chapter and figuring out, okay, what's next there. And people
just got used to seeing me on those shows, you know,
playing those characters, and now I'm stepping into something different
with the new show Group Chat that Kim and I
are producing for Hulu. It's gonna be interesting in this
new season of your Life.
Speaker 2 (15:52):
How the scales shift because at some point it's like work.
I don't know, it's like doesn't Does it give you
back what you put into it?
Speaker 1 (16:02):
Would you say that it does?
Speaker 2 (16:03):
Like do you do you feel that amount of your
life that you've put into it work? Is?
Speaker 1 (16:09):
I think in many ways yes, because I'm able to
live the life that I live because of it. You know,
I'm able to do certain things because of it. But
sometimes I'm just like this, like this is a lot.
It's okay to slow down a little bit. It's okay
to pour into you. It's okay to take that trip
that you always say no to because you gotta work
(16:30):
or you feel guilty about like you said, sitting on
a beach somewhere, when you feel like I should be working,
I should be doing this, Like it's now for me
exactly what you said, finding more of the balance. I
don't think I ever had the balance. We got to
get you some balance. I gotta get some bal You
gotta get you some balance. But it's good that I'm
recognizing it because I'm like, Okay, I got it. I
got it. First to recognize the first step is to
(16:53):
and start saying yes, like you know, get invited to
certain events or trips and be like you know what,
I'm going like cool instead of like nah, I gotta
do this or I gotta go to this this work thing,
like I'm not gonna be like fuck it, I'm going
going like I'm just going. You just went on a trip, right,
I just went on a trip to Korea, and I
was like fuck it, I'm going like I got the
call like what were you doing? Want to come to
(17:14):
just like doing all different Korean like skincare and all
like you know on TikTok everything is Korean skincare products
and finding out like what the best like cleanser and
best this is, and just I was like again, I
just said I'm going like fuck it, I'm going like
I'm not gonna look for a reason to say I can.
I'm busy. I got this or Cayenne like I'm going
(17:35):
And I had a great, great experience. It was a
two day quick trip in and out. Was it like
an old girls or yeah, it was like Kim, myself, Chloe,
a few a few other stuff, a few other of
our friends and we were just like let's roll out.
So Kim caught me like, yo, you want to go
to Korea, Like Korea. It was like, I'm out, We're going.
I love that, And I just rolled. Is it good?
(17:56):
Did you learn anything? Any good skin treatments? I did?
I brought back, man, I brought back a whole luggage
just filled with shit. I'm just like all my fathers, like,
come over and just take whatever you want. I love
that you're doing that. You gotta do trips. You gotta
live with your life, definitely. And I'm also super excited
and happy because Sierra is in New York now. You know,
Russ got traded to the Giants, so they're living in
(18:18):
New York now. And I I've been the only one
in New York for a long time out of like
my immediate friend group. Everyone's like La and other places,
so I've just been here. So it's nice to have
one of my best friends now living in New York.
Speaker 2 (18:34):
Are your friends all aware of like this state that
you're in right now? Like have you shared this with
all my closest.
Speaker 1 (18:40):
Friends I have shared with? And yeah, they're they're well,
their kids are younger right now. Yeah, their kids they
are younger. They haven't had this experience. So I'm just
like telling them, like it's just real like prepare yourself.
But what is it?
Speaker 2 (18:54):
What of your friend group or just your friends in general,
what do you think is like, ah, the best or
important friendship qualities? Like you know what I mean, because
even in these moments, you it's like you want people that.
Speaker 1 (19:08):
Yeah, I think. I think for us it's it's the support,
it's the trust. Like even just going on a trip
to Korea, like she knows how I've been feeling, and
it's like you just kids. You just get out of
New York, come to Korea. It's a crazy trip for
two days. It's a thirteen hour flight, but just come.
I'm like, all right, cool, I need it and I
needed to do that. Yeah, you know, so it's unspoken,
(19:31):
like I know that's why she told me to come
on that trip, you know what I mean. So it's
like it's unspoken, you know, whether it's Kelly or Sierra
or anyone, like the check ins or the come meet
up with us here, you know, like I know that
they're aware and they're trying me going to La now
to shoot the pilot, just getting to be around everybody
in La again, Like I am excited for That's good,
(19:53):
you know. And I also outside of my friends, I
have an incredible family, you know. Yeah, close with my family.
My cousins die to all of them, Like that's my
you know this squad, my squad. Yeah, they come stay
at the house, like they'll just pop up, like you
they probably miss kay into. Yeah they visit too, but
like that, so calm my cousin Lauren, you know news,
all of them just we here, were staying for a
(20:14):
couple of days with you. I'm like, yeah, stay there,
like yeah, we just stay and we don't want you
to be here by yourself, And like I love that,
you know it. Yeah, it means a while. And I
think everyone will find either a character or something that
they can personally relate to.
Speaker 2 (20:28):
How about like, because even like thirties and forties is
a whole different Your life in thirties and your life
in forties is a whole difference.
Speaker 1 (20:35):
It's very different.
Speaker 2 (20:36):
How has that been for you because you started sixteen?
Yeah so you you did twenties publicly, you did thirties publicly,
You're in forties now publicly, how have you transitioned? And
like dealing with age and stuff like that, how are
you managing like age?
Speaker 1 (20:53):
Yeah, that and changes and like you're the only person
who's ever asked that. Quizarly, it's such a good question
because the industry you we're in doesn't always make you
feel good about getting older. It's like you feel like
the industry can make you feel like after a certain age,
you're not relevant anymore, you're washed up, or we said
(21:15):
at the same time, or especially in an acting space
where the roles are getting cast younger and younger, or
once you reach a certain age, now you're not being
looked at as like the hot girlfriend anymore. It's like different.
So I see all that happening. So there are times
where I've struggled with it because I'm like, my whole
thing claim to fame was being on a radio at sixteen,
(21:39):
doing this at seventeen. You'll being on MTV at nineteen,
Like that was always what came behind, Like she the
youngest to ever do that, she was the youngest on
the radio. She was like that was everything. So that
when you get out of that and that's not what
people are, that's not the story anymore, you just kind
of like, don't I don't want to be the old head,
you know what I mean. But it's life, and you
get older, So I'm I'm trying to lean into it
(22:01):
with more you know, grace, and like embrace it because
it is such a blessing to be able to, you know,
get older and have the wisdom and everything that we've
been through. And just I think I'm at a place
now where outside noise and opinions don't matter to me
as much anymore. I used to really care about that stuff,
like I was always even before in the industry, like
in high school, like the girl that wanted to be
(22:24):
liked by everyone. If someone didn't like me, it's like,
well what did I do? Like why? Like I'm a
nice person, Like why don't they like me? And then
you get in this industry and people just tearing you
up twenty four to seven about anything. I just gotten
to a point where it the public perception, outside noise
just doesn't matter to me as much anymore. We all
(22:44):
say that, but sometimes that's just still cut. Sometimes it cuts.
But I've gotten better, I understand and what works for me,
So for me, I don't read the comments, you know, yeah,
because if I'm having a good day, why am I
gonna purposely fuck my day up by reading the comments
that I know are gonna tear me up, say some
crazy shit like why would I do that? And just
human beings we're going to focus on the negative is
(23:04):
one hundred thousands I love you. That is like these
and that's what we're hyper focused so on, like oh
is Peter is so unhealthy? So I'm like, I just
don't read the comments anymore, like I had to figure
out what works for me, and like I just I
just I don't even touch it, like I'm don't the
shade room posts. I do not think that is so funny.
(23:26):
If they post it about me, I'll go under and
I'll just put like them emoji or like thank you
or heart and I just get right out of it.
I will not read a comment. And sometimes Brittany's here,
my sister would be like not the actually was saying
good things about you, Like I'm like great, I just
leave it alone, like I will not do it because
you gotta know what works for you, good for you. You
(23:48):
gotta know what works for you.
Speaker 2 (23:49):
But the thing too is it is like, especially when
we've been at this for so long, it's like it's
hard because people want to compare you to an older
version of yourself. But sometimes I feel like women, whether
you're in the public eye or not, women in general,
we like we want to hold ourselves to a version
of us. It's so funny because yesterday I had this
little these shorts on. I was at Joe's house birthday
(24:11):
and had these little shorts on, and a girl said
to me it was actually Christy jim Jones, like Christy
was I had shorts.
Speaker 1 (24:18):
So she was like, you look cute. Those look good.
I was like, oh, my legs right here if I could,
and the thing, you.
Speaker 2 (24:22):
Know, and she was like, you not twenty five, those
are good And the way she said it, I was like,
because in my mind I wanted to look like the
same way they looked when I was twenty five.
Speaker 1 (24:35):
I understand that. And it was such a like a
she just said it on subit you? You like, so
what about You're not twenty five? Your legs look good?
And I was like, okay, all right.
Speaker 2 (24:45):
But we do that shitting to ourselves where we compare
ourselves to a version of ourselves from ten years ago,
twenty years ago, and it's really hard not to do that.
I just wonder for you, especially because you take a
lot of photos.
Speaker 1 (24:58):
It's really hard not to do that. Everything you just said,
it's hard not to do that. And sometimes in my
mind I feel super young, so like in my bottom
like why they're not handling me like I'm twenty five
thirty years old? Like and I'm like, because you're not,
like you know what I mean. But if you got
to remind yourself, like because like you said, sometimes I'm
stuck in that old version of me. So you do
(25:21):
deal with that. But that's why you have to get
off of caring so much about what people say and think,
cause you'll be miserable every day. There's nothing you, I,
or anyone could do that's gonna please everybody across the board.
There's not an outfit, there's not a makeup, there's not
a hairstyle that it's going to be like they all
loved it. It's never gonna happen. Oh my god. I
(25:43):
just by the way, I just did a I don't know.
I'm like, I'm not to lead.
Speaker 2 (25:47):
I'm about to lean into some other shit right now
because I just did. I just did a photo shoot
for so Far to collab with Timberland. So they asked
me to come down and I was like, normally those
things you know how it is you go in you over.
I don't want to way that. I don't like the
way this riats to take me look fat? How does
it look when I sit here?
Speaker 1 (26:05):
This hair? Does this make me? Hair? Make me look older?
Speaker 2 (26:07):
You know all that shit that we do to ourselves.
I was like, I'm gonna go have fun. I just
had a different mentality.
Speaker 1 (26:13):
I'm gonna put the.
Speaker 2 (26:14):
Crazy out for you want to put on right, Let's
just see, let's just try it. Hey, guys, it's Angie.
Thank you so much for watching the pod today.
Speaker 1 (26:21):
We appreciate you. I cannot believe summer is over.
Speaker 2 (26:24):
We are in a new season, and for me that
means doing some updating in my house when the season changes.
I like to do something fresh, even if it's something small.
I was just saying recently, I just changed some of
the doorknobs in my home and that makes a really
big difference in the house.
Speaker 1 (26:38):
But also like storing things.
Speaker 2 (26:40):
From last season that you're not gonna wear that stuff
up your closet. They have great bins of all sizes
at Wayfair. I'll get some bins that put stuff under
the bedd I get some bins to just pack up
seasonal clothes that I know I'm not gonna wear for
a long time. Very easy stuff to get at Wayfair. Also,
my son just went away to college. We got a
lot of stuff for packing and storage there, and also
(27:03):
I bought a few things to refresh the room so
I could use it while he's gone. It's a little
kind of place for me, so I got a new
rug in there. It looks great. So yeah, Wayfair is
great for all of those type of things, and they
have something for every room.
Speaker 1 (27:14):
They have something for every budget.
Speaker 2 (27:17):
Get organized, refreshed, and back to routine whatever your routine is.
For way less at Wayfair, you can head to wayfair
dot com right now and shop all things home that's
w a y fai r dot com. Wayfair every style,
every home the dair style is wanted to put I
don't ever wear wigs. I wear extensions wigs and some
(27:37):
people will love them.
Speaker 1 (27:38):
It's for me. I just it's not my thing.
Speaker 2 (27:40):
I never realized it was a wig girl, right, I
will wear extension or I do clippings or something like that.
They wanted to put me in a wig. I was like, Okay,
fuck it, let's try it. They pulled up some photos
of me from back in the day. They were like,
you used to do this color, Let's try it.
Speaker 1 (27:53):
I was like, Okay, fuck it, let's do it.
Speaker 2 (27:55):
And then they were putting me in clothes I would
never pick for myself, and it was I think it's
really good.
Speaker 1 (28:02):
I'm like yeah, And everybody was like, oh, this is fire.
I gotta spot. I'll show you show why now, don't
show you what now.
Speaker 2 (28:12):
But my point was just like you had to surrender.
I had to surrender, and it was so much more fun.
Speaker 1 (28:18):
Yeah. And now, granted it could have gone bad. It
could have, but I still had so much fun. Yeah.
You know what I'm saying. It's like something I had
gone loud. My god, it's like a whole production.
Speaker 2 (28:35):
You hear Brittany's voice in the background that they come out, okay,
here's cut.
Speaker 1 (28:40):
Hold on, yeah, yes, why not right? How you hear this?
Your color? I love this?
Speaker 2 (28:53):
You know? No?
Speaker 1 (28:55):
But I had too much fun. But don't you love that?
Speaker 2 (28:58):
No?
Speaker 1 (28:58):
I had so much fun. I love that you just
let yourself be free and experienced like I would never
We don't know. Not the head though. I was like, mofu,
this not the hat? Oh yeah, the red hair, the
red orange anyway, point what stop? Get out of you?
(29:19):
Please go. I just like your hair that color for sure.
Point is is that it was like, let me just
go and lean in and have fun and like not
micromanage or think about this isn't gonna work, or worry
about how it's gonna somebody else is gonna think it.
Look that's what I mean. Should she be in that hair? Yeah?
Or what she just trying to look like he's twenty five?
Speaker 2 (29:38):
Like, No, I didn't care, like I just and honestly,
it's a testament to the energy on set.
Speaker 1 (29:44):
Have you ever met tell phar Yeah, and I have.
You know his energy is beautiful maybe yeah, yeah, so like,
and he just made you feel confident, and everybody in
the room was super like just it was good energy
and sometimes you just gotta lean into the energy of
a space.
Speaker 2 (29:57):
I love that And so yeah, I went a little
bit out of my comfort zone. But I had so
much fun. I told him I'm start dressing like this
old not but like I'm just gonna start just wearing good.
Speaker 1 (30:08):
So I can't wait for this that's dropping soon. I
can't wait. I can't wait. So cool that I can't
wait do you do stuff like that?
Speaker 2 (30:14):
Off, it was the last time you leaned into something
that is completely out of character for you.
Speaker 1 (30:18):
I would say, like a lot of times with the
wigs and stuff with arrogant ay, he's always like, no,
you about to try this, We're doing this, and he
doesn't even give me a choice. There's not even a conversation,
like you're putting this on, and then afterwards, I'm like,
with ice blue hair, something crazy, but I'm like, I
like it, Like it just feels fun and freeing, and
like I'm out it. He's like, if you wear another
(30:40):
fucking ponytail, half a half down, Like I'm sick of
seeing that look half a bad dab. I'm sick of
seeing that. Like I'm like, all right, So he's the
person that pushes me out of my comfort zone just
to have fun and try different things.
Speaker 2 (30:54):
But part of that also is it's having people that
push you, which is great, but also it's like allowing
yourself self, Yeah, be free because because you have to
do like what you said, you have to not care
about the outside, because if you live your life on
how the outside is perceived, you don't even allow yourself
to be free.
Speaker 1 (31:12):
I don't even allow yourself to be free. And like
I said, this industry makes you feel like after a
certain age, like what do he wants to be doing?
Like turtlenecket, Like what do we like after so like
why she's she's a mom? She's like what does that mean?
Like you can't lean into your sexiness, you can't be free,
you can't have fun, Like I just never understood that.
But it starts. Yeah, it's like nah, fuck that, Like
(31:32):
I'm gonna be who I am? Word love that for you. Yeah,
I can't wait, d see my whole Shoot, that's how
I can't wait.
Speaker 2 (31:39):
Oh, we should talk about this work that you're doing
with reform.
Speaker 1 (31:42):
Years ago I did a panel.
Speaker 2 (31:44):
It was actually the Obama administration brought me in to
speak at this reform panel. That was my introduction to
the space. And I wasn't as educated as I wish
I had been for a long time. I mean, I
knew the system, right, I knew a lot of things,
but I just learned a lot when I went in
for that, And I made a lot of friends in
this And I think what has what drew me to
it is the idea of redemption.
Speaker 1 (32:06):
I believe in it.
Speaker 2 (32:08):
You know, and so I think a lot of times
people get thrown away, and they get thrown a system,
and then the system's not set up for them to
bounce back or to help them at all anyway. So
when I see this work that you're doing, I'm like, Wow,
that's super dope.
Speaker 1 (32:20):
But yeah, so for me it was. You know, the
name of my program is three sixty and we're based
in Rikers Island. We're in the R and DC Building,
which is a building that houses the younger population, so
young men ages eighteen or twenty one. So for me,
I always felt more connected to that age group because
of Cayenne, Like I felt like these are Kyanne's friends,
(32:41):
it's peers, like I can talk to them the way
I talked to Kyen, And I felt like at that
age there was still a chance to change the mentality,
change the way of thinking. So we run a program
inside Rikers Island. We go in there like twice a
week with mentorship, how to conduct yourself in a job, interview,
just self esteem, anything you could think of. We're tackling it.
(33:03):
And then when the guys are released, some of them
have to go, you know, upstate to do a significant
amount of time. But the ones that are able to
come home, we set them up with jobs, we help
them with housing, like anything that they need, and we've
seen so much incredible success and to me, like that's
the most fulfilling work for me. Like and I myself
(33:23):
am going into Rikers Island all the time, Like there's
never been someone that spend more time in Rikers Island
on the outside than I have. Like I'm there. They'll
tell you we see lat here all the time. It's
just like that's become you know, take bridge over there,
you take that little bridge, that bridge of like here
we go and going there and just seeing the work
that's happening is so like powerful. What's the best story
(33:46):
you have from that? So I don't know. Best story
I have is a kid name we call him Rondo's
name is Michael. He was incarcerated Rikers Island and I
remember he was in my program, and I was like,
there's just something like you always know when it's something different.
They're all special, but you always know when there's something
a little bit different. And I called Jessica Jackson from
(34:06):
Reform a Line who works with Michael Rubin, and I said,
you got to come in here and see this kid,
like this is different. So she came with me, met
with him and said, when you get out, I'm going
to have a job for you, Like there's something so
special about you. He got out on a Thursday. That Monday,
he started at Reform. Who's you know, Jay Meek, Michael Rubin,
all of them he started at Reform. Now he's the
(34:27):
head of their entire gen Z division, pushing for policy
change all over the United States. Has spoken on panels
with Kim and little Baby and Michael Rubin and it
just got a full scholarship to Columbia University. Like it's incredible.
And when I saw him, he was a former gang member,
like just defeated, didn't know what he was doing with
his life. So to see him now, I see him
(34:48):
all the time, Like he spends Christmases with me and
my family Thanksgivings, like he's just part of our family now.
But to see how his life has just changed, that's
like one of my most successful, powerful stories. That's beautiful.
Love that.
Speaker 2 (35:01):
Yeah, Dad makes the comments section feel a little less
right exactly.
Speaker 1 (35:07):
It's like, come on, we all here doing real work,
like changing lives, and you know, even for the kids
that unfortunately have you know, I have eighteen year olds
facing life and the kids that have to go upstate,
Like I always feel like I hope even if they
kept a little piece of what I told them or
taught them or whatever, like, as they continue on their journey,
I feel like I did my job because unfortunately a
(35:29):
lot of them don't get the opportunity to come out.
I got kids fifteen years, twenty years. The numbers in
my mind just keep getting bigger, Like it's very rare
I meet someone that's like, I got a year, I
got two years. It's like to the point now of
a kid tells me, you know, I got eight years,
I'm like, oh, that's all right, Like you could do that.
Like eight years feels like a small number now because
everything is double digits and that. But I always feel
(35:49):
like even when they go and leave the program, because
I try to still keep in touch with them upstate,
like and they'll repeace stuff to me, like when you
told me that, that just stuck with me, and I'm
like wow, Like it's the littlest things times you don't
even think makes an impact on somebody that really does.
How many kids are in the program, so generally we
have like fifteen or twenty at a time because it's
a smaller group. But you know they're constantly rotating in
(36:10):
and out when they go upstate or new people come in.
So but fifteen or twenty at a time, that's beautiful. Man. Yeah, wow,
wow wow, Yeah, you gotta come up there. I will
allow you that we talked about. I just said a date.
Let's listen it. I would love love for you to Yeah,
I would love that. Yeah, that would be great on
the little bus that goes Aquosy. I've been up to
records a lot of times. I did I used.
Speaker 2 (36:29):
I've done a lot of time with the women with women. Yeahs,
I would love that.
Speaker 1 (36:33):
She just set that up. Okay, good, Okay? In real life?
Should we do the bowl is boll time? That's fun.
Speaker 2 (36:39):
I have a bowl of questions in the bowl la
la oh god these are in real life.
Speaker 1 (36:45):
Question here we go? Okay, I don't know? Am I? Oh?
I like this? What is it when I walk in
a room. I want people to feel blank when I
walk in a room, I want people to feel happy,
like I just want to be that person at like
when people see me, it's like happiness like, oh, there's
a lot like they're happy about it. I think you
(37:05):
do that, Thank you, I try. I think you do that.
I think people are genuinely happy to see. Let's do
what more? Okay more, let me see. Uh, if you
could instantly master any skill, what would it be? And
I don't know, you know what's funny, I don't know
if this is a skill. But you're going to be
surprised by his answer. Okay, I'm excited love. Oh if
(37:27):
I can master that, I should I'll be perfect. But
if I can master that, all right, I'll be perfect. Well,
let's be honest, is that a skill? No? I was
going to ask, how many people do you know that
have mastered love? I don't think anyone's mastered it. I
don't think anyone's ever mastered it. But I do you know,
(37:48):
there was a time where I felt like I didn't
really know or see people that were happy with love.
That has changed, like now I do feel like I
didn't really have ever have examples of that girling up.
But I do have examples of that now, like where
I could look at certain relationships like no, they're actually
like genuinely happy, like this is a good well, what
(38:08):
do they do? How do they get it right? Like,
what is the thing? Have you figured that out? Well?
I just thought to see her about all ye's super happy, Yeah,
super and like got it right. And definitely if you
were to ask her, she would say, you know, it's
primarily because God is at the center of their relationship
and date nights and putting each other first and communication
all of those things. When you have to find someone
(38:30):
that's equally yoked with you in that sense. I still
think it's it's it's always going to be work. It's
never like a care free kind of thing. But I
would just like, I don't know, you never master it.
Maybe you can better at it. That's so funny because
we just our last guests, we had Asia and Israel here.
I saw that and they same thing. They got it right.
(38:53):
They're so happy and really happy.
Speaker 2 (38:55):
Yeah, you could tell. And God is at the center
of it. They make time for check in.
Speaker 1 (39:01):
Date night nights, all the things.
Speaker 2 (39:03):
There are some threads that when you speak with people
who have gotten it right and are truly happy.
Speaker 1 (39:08):
And yesterday the trainer I was telling you about, the
one that keeps me going to them. She got married yesterday,
which is so crazy that I went to her wedding
and even the vows, everything was God at the center
of everything, Like this is the first time I went
to a wedding where they washed each other's feet and
like did it all. And I was like, wow, this
is different. But God at the center. God at the
center every single time.
Speaker 2 (39:29):
Yeah, for sure, it's funny we're talking about because we
talking about Adrian and that whole thing. We also had
Evonne who was telling the story about meeting her husband
and the state that she had to be in because
she said she had stopped dating because she was tired
of like the guys and she's like, I was living
in LA and the guys were like, you know, I
like you, you like me. Let's see how this goes.
Speaker 1 (39:50):
Situation ships, right, situation, and she just was like over it.
Speaker 2 (39:54):
She was like, I wanted something grown up. I wanted
something real, And so she had to make it. She
had to make a decision to shift, and so she
just shut everything down. And then she met him and
she said she reverted. She went back to like when
he first called it, she was like, you know, cause
I'm seeing some few people and he was like, all right,
we'll call me when that changes, she was like.
Speaker 1 (40:16):
Okay, all right, o man, right, okay, growl man.
Speaker 2 (40:21):
But I think I think there's something too that, like
making a decision for the type of love you want
in your life so that you set the.
Speaker 1 (40:29):
Sierra always talks about that. She does this is my
guru for all. She always talks about like she's just
like you have to envision it, like every part of it,
like how you want it to be, what you wanted
to look like, like you have to write it down.
You have to like feel it, like you have to
like it. She really like steps into that. Do you
feel like you're going to get this right?
Speaker 2 (40:50):
You had to put money on yourself if you had
to bet on yourself, you were outside betting on law.
Speaker 1 (40:56):
Do you think you're going to get this right? I
think that I have to believe that I am. The
only way to get it right is to believe that
I can and that I will. Otherwise what am I
doing it for? Like just to fail?
Speaker 2 (41:13):
Like?
Speaker 1 (41:13):
What am I doing it for? I have to believe that? So, yes,
what do you think it will take from you? From me? Uh?
Speaker 2 (41:23):
Because we always think about what the person has to
do the other person? Yeah, like yeah, the person has
to do, but we don't always talk. Yeah, I think
what would we have? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (41:30):
No, And I have thought about that because when you
know things didn't work out in my marriage, you have
to look at things and take accountability, like for whatever
you could have done better. You know, you have to
look at the whole thing. It's funny. I think I
saw your interview with uh Tiana. She was talking a
little bit about that. But for me, I think the balance,
(41:53):
the balance, the balance of like being okay with it's
not even like putting somebody else before me, but like
the balance like where they feel like a priority or
they are a priority, and it's not after work and
after this and after that. You know, I think that
that's probably something I can be better at in real life.
Speaker 2 (42:14):
This might be tricky because of this actual moment that
you're in, but in real life, how happy are you
on a scale of one to ten?
Speaker 1 (42:21):
Generally? Maybe not right now because of Cayenne leaving. Generally
I would say I'm a strong eight. Yeah, I would
say a strong eight, A strong eight. I would love
to be at ten, but I'm a strong usually a
eight eight, like I can live and they're talking about
right now today today, today, I'm like at a five,
(42:43):
at a five, but only because of what's happening with Cayenne.
It's not like I feel like my life is bad
or yeah, I'm just like that's the reason. It's like
that our kid, like the Cayenne thing. You missed your son.
I missed him so much. That's okay, so much any
mother can understand. Yes, And it doesn't mean that the
parts of my life aren't great and amazing or that
you're not grateful for those Exactly, yeah, exactly. How often
(43:07):
in real life, how often do you think about your legacy?
That's a great question. I won't say I think about
it often. I feel like I think about it the
most when I am doing the prison reform work. Like
I'm sitting there like these kids, these young men are
(43:28):
like hanging on to my every word, Like if I
say this is how it is, they really believe that
this is how it is, and there's such a responsibility
that comes with that. And I don't take that lightly.
I don't take that for granted. So in those moments,
I'm like, I'm really leaving a legacy that these kids
could say I impacted and affected their life in this way,
like it's a big deal to me. So in those moments,
(43:51):
I'm like, Wow, this is powerful work and not that
my other work isn't, but like entertaining is cool, but
this is like people's lives and like you helping them
with direction in their life. It's just that's when I
think about legacy.
Speaker 2 (44:05):
Yeah, my brain just went tend different places because I wonder,
because I know Kim does a lot of reform work,
have you brought her down at all?
Speaker 1 (44:13):
And then I thought could she be at Riker's? And
that be crazy, like does she could come to Rikers?
She hasn't come yet with me, but she could come
to write. I don't mean that in any way.
Speaker 2 (44:20):
It's just that and this is a whole other topic.
It's like there's like levels of fame.
Speaker 1 (44:26):
Yeah, no, it's a real No, no, it's a real thing.
It's a real thing. It's a real life, like understand
what you can do.
Speaker 2 (44:33):
It's that's not only it's safe and not just for
yourself but for other people even.
Speaker 1 (44:39):
Like you have to move 're moving around. Yes, it's
end of different. It's different. No, it's really different. It's different. Yes,
it is levels you're right, but she can come to
Rikers and has been super interested in coming and support it.
We just got to get her out here and in there.
But she does a lot of you know, reform work
as well, and you know, with her becoming a lawyer,
(45:00):
now there's so many things that I can ask her
from a legal perspective, like with certain people's cases, like
what does this mean? And like she knows, like he
really knows. He's like, okay, this is that. This is
how you translate that. I'm like, this is like my
own like pocket lawyer that I got all the time,
which is incredible. So it is so helpful. What are
you most proud about of yourself? I'm most proud of
(45:24):
you that I the things that I've went through and
that I still here, I still could have a positive
outlook on life, love, relationships, whatever it is, despite what
you know I went through, Like a lot of that
stuff could harden somebody, could make somebody really bitter, like
I never allowed that to happen. I remember speaking of
(45:45):
friends like Sierra. I remember one day I did an
interview I think it was with like Charlemagne and they
were like, you know, would you ever get married again?
And I was like no, like I'm never getting married again.
It's not for me. And she called me and was like,
stop saying that, Like words have so much power, like
stop putting it out there, like whatever God has meant
for you, it's gonna be like stop saying that, like
(46:06):
so definitely like and she checked me in a real way,
in a loving way, but in a real way, and
I had to stop and think, like she's right. And
since then, I've stopped saying that, like I don't know
what the future holds for me. I don't know what
it's gonna be, but I'm not gonna put that out there.
And understanding how much power our words have on us
(46:26):
and how we approach certain things. And she really gave
me an understanding.
Speaker 2 (46:31):
Of that, probably protecting yourself too, yeah, just guarding yourself.
Speaker 1 (46:34):
Yeah, and that's I was like, man, I want I
was like, ah, we skim over that. But it's like
people don't realize that.
Speaker 2 (46:43):
I've always said this, like people don't talk about how
bad and we don't prepare ourselves to like heartbreak.
Speaker 1 (46:49):
It's how you was like nobody told us.
Speaker 2 (46:53):
Nobody told me as a mom, I'm gonna miss my kids,
and that I feel like for young people, you get
into bad relationships or you or a marriage that doesn't
work out, Like how challenging that could be to your life.
And we hear it heartbreak, and we know people have
gone to jail for it, they've murdered for it or whatever,
but like really like the depths of that feeling of like,
(47:14):
I'm sure there's moments after everything that happened that you
probably didn't want to get up off of floor.
Speaker 1 (47:20):
Yeah, of course, the hardest part of my life. And
then playing it out publicly, so then you have that
part like to where they're watching it she looks as
she looks depressed, like they're watching everything. So then you
have like the fake smile like no, I'm good, everything's okay,
and you're like fucking dying inside and you're just like,
I'm all right, But it is. It is incredibly you know, hard,
(47:42):
incredibly hard, But what are you gonna do? You got
to push forward, like every day a little bit, a
little bit stronger, stronger, stronger, until you get past it.
And there are days could be years later where it'll
something will just hit you and it'll just hurt or
you remind you of something because nobody gets me. I
always says, nobody gets married with the thought of getting divorced.
(48:04):
You don't marry somebody thinking I'm gonna get divorced. You
marry somebody thinking that's who are gonna be with for
the rest of your life. And this is your life.
Someone that changes, It's like, oh, what do I do now?
I wasn't prepared for this. This is not what I
thought was gonna happen. But you have to and you
and you have to keep going. You got to live.
You have a child or women out there with children
like you got to keep going. And you're not the
(48:25):
first person. By the way, Gee, well, my mom tells
me all the time, you know, I know, my moll
tells you all the time, like all the like during
when it was going to like and you won't be
the last. I'm like, my damn you, Like you're not
the person. You won't be the last. I'm like, all right,
So you just watching you guys like do an interview
with your son at this point, right, like, yeah, you
(48:46):
got you did something right, you got something right, and
I'm and I'm proud of that. I'm proud of that.
And if that's what that was supposed to be, then
we did a hell of a job at that.
Speaker 2 (48:56):
What is the number one thing you could what the
number one advice you could give this someone who's on
the other side of the divorce or going through it
and starting the journey of co parenting.
Speaker 1 (49:06):
It does get better. It is hard, you know in
the beginning. But just remember every single thing you do,
your kid is watching and looking at that and forming
their own ideas and opinions about how parents should be.
A relationship are or love is, and I never wanted
Cayenne to have like a messed up view or version
(49:28):
of that. It's like it didn't work out, but we
still are family. We still love you, We still love
each other, and we're going to be there for you
no matter what. That was so important to the both
of us that he saw that because how we acted
was going to affect how he is in relationships. He's
eighteen now having his he has a girlfriend. Now you know,
do exactly doing his own thing. Like we wanted to
(49:48):
be a good example when it came to that. So
just remember the kids are watching everything.
Speaker 2 (49:54):
How you dealing with the girlfriend? How's that this first girlfriend?
He has a girlfriend? Yes, he has a girlfriend. How's
that first how's that going.
Speaker 1 (50:00):
It's going well. I really like her. I think he's
made a great choice. I'm just like, we're here now.
My kid has a girlfriend. His first girlfriend is like
but like girlfriend where it's like, Mom, this is my girlfriend,
and like brought her home to meet me. Yes, this
is the first time. How did that go on the
first meeting? It wasn't great? It wasn't great. I mean,
(50:22):
she's a great girl. He seems super I think is
if he's happy. I'm happy, Like he seems happy, she's great.
Like i'd be like, who is you? Yes see No,
I'm like I'm like, yeah, you know, I'm just what
are you thinking? Let me see who this girl? Attention? Okay,
I think I know I don't always have it right,
but I think I know some of the signs are
(50:42):
like the red flags and haven't seen that? Thank God?
Thank God? All right, before we go, last I r
L question, Oh not from the ball? Yeah, take the ball?
Speaker 2 (50:51):
Okay, take it from the ball? Okay, okay, pick whichever
one you want to that resonates. Wow, it was a
good One's questions?
Speaker 1 (51:02):
Is it a good one? Is it my favorite one?
Maybe it's my favorite? If God were to text you
right now, what would it What would it say?
Speaker 2 (51:10):
That's my favorite question in that bowl, and I swear
it just comes every time.
Speaker 1 (51:15):
I think that if God were to text me, it
would say I've never been asked that, it would say
I got you. I think it would just say I
got you, like I got you, and that's enough for me.
That's enough to make me feel like I got this.
I can go through anything I can. It's it's okay.
(51:35):
I think that's that's what. That's all the kind of
strength I would need. Lalah, thank you. This was awesome. Hey,
what's up? Everybody? Is La La Anthony and this is
in real life.
Speaker 2 (51:49):
For more episodes, you know to do subscribe like comments
and we'll see you on the next I r L
podcast
Host
Angie Martinez
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