More Thoughts On ADHD

The episode about ADHD got a huge amount of feedback from people who felt like they identified.

Jen is doing a solo episode to talk more about what she's learned this year about ADHD symptoms like talking too much, being reactive, hyperfocus, not going to bed on time, and Rejection Sensitivity Dysphoria.

For more information on Jen Kirkman, the host of Anxiety Bites, please go here: https://jenkirkman.bio.link

and to get the takeaways for this episode please visit: http://www.jenkirkman.com/anxietybitespodcast

To send an email to the show write to anxietybitesweekly at gmail dot com.

Follow Jen on Twitter @jenkirkman or Instagram @jenkirkman 

Anxiety Bites is distributed by the iHeartPodcast Network and co-produced by Dylan Fagan and JJ Posway.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:08):
This is the Anxiety Bites podcast and I am your host,
Jen Kirkman. Welcome to another episode of Anxiety Bites. I
am your host, Jen Kirkman. Well, today is the second
to last episode of Anxiety Bites. If you get separation anxiety.
Thinking about that, let's think of it as the end

(00:29):
of season one. Will there be a season two? I
don't know, but I have to be quite honest. I
do not have the bandwidth or time. I guess is
another way to put things. We used to just call
it time. Now everyone calls it bandwidth. I guess bandwidth
means more than time either one. I don't have bandwidth
or time to do another season right now because of
I have a full time writing job and will be

(00:51):
pretty tied up for the next year. But let's not
worry about what's to come and what's not because none
of us know. But for right now, let's call the
season one and it's coming to an end. As we
always knew, there would be forty six episodes of season one.
Maybe you didn't, but I did. And this week is
a solo episode. Next week we have Dr Julie Smith,

(01:13):
who wrote a book called Why has Nobody Told Me This? Before,
which I thought would be the perfect guests and book
and vibe for the last episode. And I'll tell you
more about that next week during the actual episode, But
for this week, I thought we could have a bit
of a potboury of an episode, but with the focus

(01:37):
of a d h D. Pun intended get a focus
a d h D. I have a few listener emails
to read and some thoughts about this podcast, and then
I really do want to get into a little more
talk about a d h D, so let's just start there.
You know, when I started this podcast, I wasn't that

(02:01):
in touch with my own d h D. I was
diagnosed in my mid thirties, and I have to be honest,
I didn't really know much about it. I didn't quite

(02:22):
relate to having it. I was told at the time
by someone I lived with that they thought I had it.
I was seeing a psychiatrist already for medication for anti
anxiety for depression to go over my phobia of flying,
and this doctor was not surprised that I had been

(02:44):
diagnosed with a d h D. And I think there's
something that goes on sometimes between a doctor and a
patient where a patient might say a symptom, they might
say a disease name instead of a symptom, and the
doctor then treats the disease, but symptoms are never talked about,
and so I really didn't get solutions for relief, and

(03:06):
I didn't talk about it with my talk therapist either.
It just seemed like something you medicate or you don't.
And because I didn't know exactly what a d h
D really was besides inability to focus or pay attention
and being hyper and I honestly don't totally suffer from
the inability to focus, and I was basing that on

(03:30):
that I've always been quite successful at whatever job I've had,
whether it's being an administrative assistant or whether it was
being a writer on staff. I was successful in the
sense that I always paid attention. I was always the
most organized. I mean it, on the surface, you would
not think that I had a d h D. Maybe hyperactive, sure,

(03:51):
but not in the ways that like I was always
allowed talker, a fast talker, quick to react. But I
never thought any of that was a d h D.
I never really thought that much about that. I did
any of that stuff to me hyperactivity. I was still
thinking about the way they diagnosed a d h D
in young children specifically, Usually this is white boys with

(04:14):
you know, they got ants in their pants, they're jumping around,
and I I rationalized my diagnosis, which was based on
a young child's view of what a d h D
is or what psychiatrists view a d h D is
four children, and thought, well, may I mean, I mean,
maybe I was hyperactive growing up, and you know, but
I was took dance lesson so maybe I got out

(04:34):
of my system. I don't know. I just didn't have
any idea that everything I was suffering from, all of
the ways in which my life was unmanageable. I look
back on it now and it seems to fit that
I had a d h D very untreated, untreated not
just medically, but more importantly cognitively. I didn't have tricks
and tips and coping mechanisms and just the knowledge of Okay,

(05:00):
so this is going to happen to you because of
your lack of executive functions in some areas, or you
dopamine and so you're going to have to make a
big decision to do blah blah blah. Now, some of
the work I did on anxiety, whether it was spiritual
work or a little more cognitive behavior therapy in the
sense of my work, you know, with fear of flying

(05:22):
phobia and more of an exposure therapy thing or cognitive
behavior therapy where I would tell myself things that weren't true,
whether it was you know, low self esteem kind of
things about myself or doom things about the future. Do
I think I legitimately had depression and anxiety? I think so.
But whereas I never could have ever wrangled my a

(05:49):
d h D without actually knowing the symptoms and wrangling
it the way I am now, I think I could
have wrangled some of the depression and anxiety if I'd
only been properly diagnosed with a d h D and
given a tool kit. So it doesn't really matter what
I had what I didn't, because that time has gone now.

(06:13):
But the thing, the behaviors and the thought process and
the actions I've taken in life that I regret the most,
or that I can see caused some problems that I've
been very lucky in life. Some of the problems I've
caused myself, they've worked themselves out. And I'll give you
an example, like certain jobs I've quit, I've been able
to go back to UM. And I'm looking back on quitting.

(06:34):
It wasn't the way I quit. I didn't. I didn't
go fuck you, I'm leaving. Just certain things where you
work a job in writing and you don't reap your
contract for the next year. It's all very paperwork and
lawyery and dignified quitting. But the decision was not thought through.
It was a little bit rash, even though it seemed

(06:54):
thought through, and things that where I go, oh, I
legitimately made a mistake because I had this inability to
critically think in some areas or not make these rash decisions,
or the way I would just move across the country
with you know, five dollars and you know, get on

(07:16):
a train and you know, and a lot of that
could be maybe I was young, whatever, it doesn't matter.
But a lot of things I regret, I go, oh,
my god, doesn't that go really well with an A
d h D symptoms? Relationships? I regret was like I
was emotionally reactive. You know, None of the things I
worked on that surrounded problems like those have ever brought
me much relief. And now I feel for me getting

(07:39):
further into my diagnosis of a d h D. I
can see why I did certain things, and I can
now have better tools in the future. So my point is,
so I was diagnosed mid thirties. I bring it up
to my psychiatrists. He's like, oh, yeah, you know, that
makes sense, and we talked a little bit about things
here and there, and we don't really get too deeply

(08:00):
into it because I don't know I'm suffering from it.
I don't know. I don't even think to say, so,
I do this, this, this, this, and I don't want
to do this, this, this, this anymore. Is this a
d h D when it doesn't den't daunt at me
that half the things I was doing all the time
we're a d h D. Whether it was trying to
accomplish every single thing in one day and feeling bad

(08:20):
if I couldn't, or burning out so badly from you know,
like there's like an a d h D burnout where
you just kind of have to stare at a wall
for a day. You know, there's so many I just
didn't know. I thought it was normal, everyone does this,
or it's part of your depression and anxiety. So he

(08:40):
put me on this drug called focal in, which is
kind of in the Adderall family, but it's not a
it's it's still one of those like drugs. I guess
that's a stimulant, but where's Adderall's more of a quote
drug in the bad way, Like if you put it
up and snorted it, you would get high, but Folklin

(09:02):
like has to be absorbed through the liver, and those
kind of drugs are usually you know, better to take
long term. I guess I don't. The point is it
didn't do anything for me, Like I literally didn't notice
a difference in anything. And at the time, I was
at a writing job, and again, like I always felt
like I had a pretty easy time focusing. I didn't
sit daydreaming maybe after hour four, but that's just anyone.

(09:26):
So and it made my skin break out really badly.
It was stimulating something my sabacious glans, and and I
just went off it and then we just never talked
about it again. I was like, I guess I'll just
have to deal with my a d h D. But again,
the symptoms I thought were a d h D, I
was like, I don't only have them anyway. So as
my quote what I would have called anxiety maybe like

(09:48):
five years ago, was ramping up. It wasn't making sense
to me because people in my life were saying, you're anxious,
You're anxious, and I was like, but I've never been
better like my careers where I wanted to be. I'm
happy be I'm completely over my flying phobia and flying
by myself to like Australia, you know. And I just
didn't understand the feedback I was getting from people, and

(10:11):
they didn't have the right language either, and it led
me into this, you know, over the past seven years,
really drilling down in therapy and with my psychiatrist, really
looking at the anxiety I was accused of having, which
is certain thought for rocess uh, certain reactions, certain whatevers.
And I mean, I can't tell you the amount of

(10:33):
work I've done the past seven years. It's as though
I were really someone that just needs to be locked
up and thrown away without the key. You know. It's
like we did twelve step four, we did cognitive behavior
with every we did a m DR, we did you know,
somatic therapy, we did medication, and I was just like
this thing that just feels like I'm wrong, you know.
Then we did like all this like shame and trauma therapy,

(10:56):
and I'm like, I listen, I know a lot of
things are trauma, but I don't have big teen trauma.
And I was like this whole notion that like I'm wrong,
like I just exist as a wrong person, like I'm
just something's wrong with me, Like I never felt it
in a deep, like childhood primal way, the way that
like my therapist was making it seem like I was
saying it. I just meant like something's off here, you know.

(11:20):
And once I so then I talked to my psychiatrist,
but he was he was telling me that he's going
to retire, you know, He's like, we've got about a
year left together. And I said, I really want to
revisit this a d h D thing. So I'd read
this book about how a d h D is different
and women, and I said, I think half the ship
that I do that is habitual now is is like

(11:42):
an a d h D maladaptive coping mechanism. And he's like,
oh yeah, and he's like, I'm sorry, I didn't, you know, know,
you want to talk about this. And it was all fine,
and we really kind of drilled down on stuff and
I realized, yeah, that's my focus. But that was kind
of going on behind the scenes of anxiety bites. And
then I started researching it more and reading things and

(12:06):
talking to a d h D coaches and it's just
it's unreal how much I relate, and it just it's
it's literally taking a deep breath. And I have now
different coping mechanisms and different ways I do things like
bullet journaling. I don't do it as detailed as some
other people, but in the sense that I write things

(12:28):
down every day that I need to do, and I
have forced myself through writing it by hand instead of
typing it in my notes section of there's something about
here's what I want to do this week, and here
is my daily goals, and to be able to really
not have twenty things in a day that I think

(12:49):
I can get to and I may be able to,
but also work a full time job so you can't
always do that. And then there's just you know, sometimes
you have time to do something but you're just you
need to zone out for a minute. You might not
have the most productive lunch hour in history where you're
returning every call and every email, and you know, it
was like I couldn't even go hang out with a friend.

(13:11):
If I hadn't completed my to do list, well, if
I live that way, I'll never see another soul as
long as I live, you know. And so really being
able to be comfortable with writing five things and and
feeling like that's enough and just I really I can't
explain too much, but it's little things like that dancing

(13:32):
in the morning for three minutes for dopamine. I am medicated,
I have vivants and I'm not on it right now,
but I have taken it. It does work really miraculously
for me because it slows me down, It centers me,
it focuses me. It does help with the executive function

(13:57):
of begin to look at time management differently um in
the sense that it helps my dopamines so that I
can actually motivate to do something. But I have to
be already doing that thing. It doesn't make you go
right a screenplay. You know you're but I have to

(14:19):
be very careful because at night, I've learned that when
I would get this insatiable urges, it was always after
six pm to have like sugar, and you know, it
was like I almost was like, am I a binge eater?
Am I an emotional eater, and I spent two years
trying to figure out the underlying emotion of why I'm

(14:40):
just so drawn to eating at night by myself that
you can be really missing misdiagnosed a d h D
people because of I'm just putting it in like quick
easy Layman's terms, because of our kind of irregular dopamine.

(15:02):
It's dopamine that you know. Look, people are like shooting
heroin to feel dopamine for like a second, you know,
and uh, it's the feeling you feel when you're in love.
But I mean, like normal everyday functioning dopamine. If you're
able to throw the laundry in the machine and you're
not like, wow, that's fun, but it's not killing you
to think of doing it, Like, that's because of dopamine, right,

(15:23):
And when ours isn't totally regulated where we want, they
call it stim you're stimming, you're looking for stimulation. Some
people eat for stimulation. It's not quite the same as
eating to cover up emotions. And when I could not
find the emotion that I was supposedly trying to cover up,
I felt like I was going crazy. I was like,

(15:45):
oh my god, I must be so blocked. Oh my,
And I'm thinking, oh, how could I be this blocked?
With the years and years of therapy, and I'm so
open and willing, and I'm doing prayers and meditation in
the morning, and the Gratitude Journal and this, and I'm
reading books and just been such a seeker my whole life,
and my God, and you think of people who are

(16:05):
really really blocked, and you just you can usually tell,
you know, those people seem just so um uh. And
I mean this in the in the loveliest way, like
just kind of fragile and delicate, and like, you know,
just like, oh God, you just want to hug them
and be like You've got so much trauma, and like
I'm more blocked than those people. And then you find

(16:27):
out oh, like, yeah, you're dopamine levels change at night,
and when you have a d h D you need
stem Oh what do I do? Oh? You find other
ways to stimulate your dopamine. Now, before what I was
doing was, oh, I'm not hungry in a hunger pangs way,
I'm fiending for sugar. Do I drink three glasses of wine?
Do I go to the store and get candy? Do

(16:48):
I order a pizza? You know that feeling where it
was like it felt like an addiction, where it felt
like I cannot stop thinking about this and the only
way to stop is to give into the thing I
want and then I go, Okay, tomorrow would be different, right.
And when you are told that that is emotional eating

(17:11):
because you're not feeling something, so I would Okay, I'm
gonna stop, and I'm not gonna drink the wine, and
I'm not gonna go get the candy, and I'm not
gonna wear to the pizza. I'm gonna sit and think
about my emotions. It was torture because there was nothing there.
I'm not We all have emotions, we all have things
we don't like deal with at the forefront of our
brain at all time, right. But for me, it was

(17:34):
just I need stimulation. I need to trigger the dopamine.
It could have been solved as simply as get up
and take a walk, turn on some music and dance
for three minutes, or just know, oh, this is your
a d h D and you're wanting to stay even
just knowing that I may not go do a solution
based thing, but knowing it makes me go, I'll get

(17:55):
out of here. But when I thought it was emotional troubles.
It would almost make it worse because I would think
I can't access these emotions and I'm so overwhelmed by that,
I gotta eat. And so now that's just an example
of these weird things that are a d h D
that looks so much like other stuff. And it's tough

(18:17):
because you might have emotional eating issues, you might need
to really work on them. You might also have a
h D. You know, it's tough when it all kind
of feels the same. But there was that moment for
me when I went, it's as simple as there is
a disorder that is on the scale of being neuro divergent,

(18:39):
where certain things are overwhelming for you, certain things need
a little extra TLC, certain things needed extra attention, certain
things need a little extra handling, and you've got you
kind of kind of go out on your own and
do it. And not a lot of psychiatrists who deal
in a d h D are as familiar with all
the nuance and everything knew that's coming out, unless it's

(19:01):
their passion and they're sitting there researching it every day.
But if they got their degree and they can prescribe,
I mean I don't know many that bother to sit
around learning more. That's why for me, uh, I have
really enjoyed subscribing to this magazine called Attitude A d
D Get It, and I've I've enjoyed reading what a

(19:22):
d h D coaches say and I'm going to get
an a d h D coach. You know, that industry
in the d D world is is really huge, and
I do think for some of us it can be
alongside having a psychiatrist if you do need a prescription.

(19:43):
It is one of the disorders that I find is
very kind of d I Y in a way in
terms of really knowing what you have and what works
for you and what doesn't. It's a lot of trial
and error. So I wanted to read a few emails
because the most popular episode by far that I did

(20:04):
was my episode with Kristin Carter called I Have a
d h D. And it really was fascinating to me
because it was through doing this podcast that I finally
realized my a d h D has run my life.
And you know, I'm I'm it's like not bad or good,
it just is. And going forward, I will be identifying

(20:26):
that way. For me, I feel like doing this show
was was a love letter to my anxious little self
as a kid, where I wanted people to talk about
things I never could talk about as a kid because
society didn't. And as I did the podcast, I started
to realize, I don't think I have half the stuff

(20:46):
that I'm hearing that people with anxiety have. And then
it became very clear, you know, I think this a
d h D thing is a is my thing, and
it does sort of explain certain anxiety and certain lack
of anxieties that normally people have with an anxiety disorder.
And again this all this stuff moves around, it can

(21:08):
change with circumstances, blah blah blah. So you know, but
for me, finding this, really locking into this diagnosis and
kind of looking at everything through that frame has helped me.
So this is an email from Kate. She says, I'm
listening to your Anxiety Bites episode with Liz fosse Lean

(21:29):
and found the discussion about anxious fixing particularly interesting. Coincidentally,
this article popped up in my news feed. Um, and
that news feed is chore Charm bracelets are helping people
diagnosed with a d h D stay on track. Kate
asked what do you think of the concept of chore charms.
Is it more list ticking, albeit in a different format,

(21:50):
rather than taking time to check in with how you're feeling,
or is it a productive way to feel accomplishment. Let
me look at this article. So, this is an article
from ABC dot net dot au, so Australian ABC news.
And there's a woman named Matilda Bosley, and she's smiling,
and she's holding up her wrist and she has it

(22:13):
one of those rubber elastic kind of phone cord looking
phone cord, you know, landlines from the eighties. Key ring
on her arm, a bunch of them, and each one
has instead of a key, a little tag that has
a chore she needs to do. So she started using

(22:34):
these wristbands to help keep her on track. Each morning,
she sets herself up with physical reminders of her tasks
in the form of a key chain wrist bracelet known
as charge arms, with a tag on each one to
reminder of a particular task such as making the better
taking medication. While she says, the rattle that the tags
create annoy her, the sound also motivates her to get

(22:55):
them off, she says, but she's not allowed to take
them off. Until she actually does it. Part of having
a h D is having to manage her mind going
off on tangents. Staying on task, especially when it's a
task that's fairly mundane, can be really difficult. I mean, listen,
I don't know, but to me, this seems like a
legit a d h D solution from Matilda. I mean,
there are tasks that we need to get done every day.

(23:17):
Taking meds and making the beds important to you, then
that certainly is something that needs to be done. And
you know it sounds like these serve as a reminder
because things can slip our mind, even the most important
thing in the world all the time with me, I
will make my lunch the night before, I will put

(23:38):
it in the refrigerator. I will even put a little
bag out next to the refrigerator, which is my little bag.
I will put my luncheon and bring to work. And
I will forget almost every day unless I put a
note on the front door. This say is get your lunch.
But then to get me to write the note and
stick it on the door, I start thinking, you don't
need a note. What are you at a D You

(24:00):
have Alzheimer's, You forgot you made a lunch. You're not
going to forget. Just stop. And I'm like, in the
time that I beat myself up for having to write,
I know what I could have written. So it sounds
like she needs reminders. And then with something like making
her bed, it sounds like she needs motivation. She's made
a pactor of herself that she can't take these annoying
things off her wrist until she does the things. So
she does the thing, gets to take the thing off
her risk wrist. I think that's to me, sounds like

(24:23):
a really for her that this I would not want
to do this, but it sounds like for her a
really good, for lack of a better word and more
interesting word, good way, motivating way of getting her things done.
I don't think that she's doing it instead of sitting

(24:44):
with her feelings. I think there are tasks that need
to be done and things that need to be remembered.
And again, a d h D really affects our executive function,
those things can be almost impossible. So to me it
seems not the same as anxious fixing because for me,
I know when I'm anxious fixing, my mind will begin

(25:04):
to say, oh, you've got a free you've technically got
free time. You're not at work, You're not on any
kind of deadline with any of your podcasts. Jen. You know, Um,
your place is clean, so you know you're home for
the rest of the night. Do you want to watch
some TV? Do you want to read a book? Do
you want to Hey, didn't meditate this morning? You want

(25:25):
to do that? You want to journal? And I'm like,
I'm gonna um go through all my emails, and you know,
I can see it happening. I can see the moment
where I can feel that my mind might have a
free moment and I fill it up and I can
feel myself doing them. So I think it's a little

(25:46):
different than when I need to get something done and
I need to motivate myself to do. Will be right back, Jen,
Thanks so much for your Anxiety Bites podcast, and especially
the episode about a d h D when you said

(26:07):
that our fellow householders may notice that something may be
amiss even when our coworkers do not. I had an
AHA moment last week. I had a tallehealth appointment on done.
The nurse confirmed that I have a d h D.
And now I take riddle in which has the lowest
risk of interacting with my anxiety medication, which is an
s s R. I I agree with you that I

(26:28):
wouldn't want to trade in my brain for one that
is neurotypical, but the medication plus meditation and exercise equals
a calmer me in a happier marriage. Best wishes for
the next chapters of your life. Regards, Dana Jen I've
been a fan blah blah blah, Jose. I wanted to

(26:49):
say thank you for the I Have a d h
D podcast because I have finally let myself acknowledge that
I took all the boxes. Been sitting and digesting all
the info for a while, but I thought it'd be
nice to drop your word to emphasize that, yes, it
does resonate with me. I'm a bit shocked and relieved
at the same time. And guess what, I'm almost thirty eight,
which means I could just put the diagnosis on my

(27:10):
birthday wish lists and grant it to myself and not
feel guilty. All of my life, I was a high functioning,
high achiever who just started struggling with simple things at
some point in life and always thought I was just weird, tired,
and goth. Well, yes I am, but that's not the point.
I was listening to the podcast, learning that all these
glitches and my behavior have actual names, and taking notes,

(27:33):
only later to notice that you've already done that for
us on your website. I can't express how much I
had to or red. Yes, we all go to Jen
Kirkman dot com and click anxiety bites. You can read
the takeaways from every episode in bullet point form. I
think I'm finally feeling empowered enough to get a diagnosis

(27:54):
because I have a long tick list thanks TikTok with
a science based vocabulary, and also because would bring a
huge relief to my crazy brain. So thank you, thanks, thanks, thanks.
I did speak to my therapist about it briefly, but
she said, if I feel something is actually making it
difficult for me to function and do normal things in life,
then yes, I should get it checked. But how many

(28:14):
of us actually rationalize and minimize our a d h
D behavior just to not make a big deal out
of it? Is it the patriarchy again? Is it all
because for our own safety we don't want to be
labeled hysterical, crazy or unpredictable. So I think that's true.
I think for me. I was told, I mean, you

(28:36):
know you're off the first time I tried meds. You're
off the meds. I mean, if you feel like you're
a d h D is getting in the way of
your life, we can talk about other solutions. I was like, no,
it's not because they didn't know what it was and others.
I was like, Oh, it's the other things getting the
way in my life. Those were a d h D
symptoms our regrets, Jen. When I started anxiety Bites, Oh,

(28:57):
that was from Izzy Jen. When I started Anxiety Bites
A listen to the a d h D episode. People
have told me I was a d h D my
whole life, but I've never received a diagnosis from a counselor.
In school, my nickname was the butterfly, as I have
never been in one place for too long. I excellent
public speaking and split decision making where I'm not given
time to ruminate, but I struggle with so many other

(29:19):
aspects of life. It's brought about pretty severe self esteem
issues when I can't complete tasks or I get overwhelmed.
And I was literally in a state of overwhelmed when
I listened to your podcast. I'm sorry listening to the
podcast has motivated me to seek advice from a professional
and also gave me the self compassion I needed in
that moment. So there you go. And they asked me

(29:41):
not to include their names, so I thought I would
go over some things that maybe you would want to
learn more about a d h D. And I got
all of this from Attitude mag dot com and I subscribe,
which is a paid subscription, so I think a lot
of the things I have access to or because I've

(30:03):
paid for them, so you can get a lot of
info for free on their website. So definitely had over there.
But if you're looking for what I read, I think
mine is under the paywalls, so pay attention. UM. I
know for me, some of the things that I've realized
where a d h D symptoms is talking too much,
you know, not being able to shut up, talking really fast,

(30:25):
talking loud. I've been reactive in relationships. I've felt like
I was never good enough just in general. Um, I
felt like I had emotional problems, you know, like I
hurled my emotions at people. Sometimes. I think I dabbled
in something called rejection sensitivity dysphoria, and a lot of
that has been thankfully just weed it out of my

(30:47):
system by other ways, but truly looking at it. You know,
if those feelings come up where I want to react
a certain way, now I know, well, this is part
of a d h D, and here's what I can
do about it. So there are some self defeating behaviors
of a d h D, and one of them is

(31:12):
trying to do something all yourself, and that just really
resonated with me. Um. You know, there's there's things where
it's like, oh, I can't do that, you know, I
can't get an assistant because I just need to do
it all myself, you know, and or the there's just
a lot of I'll just do it all myself. It's

(31:32):
easier because I need to do it right now. You know.
There's there's not a lot of before my you know,
learning how to take better care of myself. Of course,
with a d h D, there was not a lot
of planning, right so if it's like, oh, someday I
want to get this from my apartment, it's like, well,
I'm just gonna do it right now, you know. And
then you do something because you need to do it

(31:53):
right now, even though you don't need to, and you
do it all yourself, and then you waste the time
you should have been doing something else. You know. It's
a lot of that. It's it's like this absolute need
to do it right now. And that's that's what I
mean by reactivity too. I don't mean like you're hauling
off hitting someone, but I just mean you might be
having a reaction to your own need to do something.
Like it's impulsivity and compulsiveness. But I never felt like

(32:16):
I had O c D. But I had like impulsivity,
and I think that was always a big, big thing
with me. And that can manifest for a lot of people.
It can look even like love, addiction and things like that.
It can look like recklessness, you know, in certain ways.
And so that was something that I had to realize.
It's like, oh, like I I just have impulsivity, and

(32:40):
it it can come up in big ways, but it
can come up in small ways, like getting an idea, Oh,
I might want to um take some photos and put
them on this wall in my place, and then it
suddenly like I have to leave the house right now
and started taking pictures and I have to buy free
and it's like I was just doing something else, but
this urge like no, I need to do it now,
and it's like as though like writing it down on

(33:01):
a future to do list and getting excited about it.
Oh my god, I figured out when I want to
do it that wall I want to take photos and
put them up Like that wouldn't be satisfying enough. And
so when you think about it in ways like that,
it's like, oh, how many times have you done that
with people? Right like you fall in love so quickly,
or you need this right now, or just like nothing
can wait, and everyone's sort of like confused by your

(33:22):
just kind of like spinning around. A lot of that
is a d h D. So okay, so there's an
a d h D test now again. This is from
Attitude mag dot com. Attention deficit hyperactivity disorder is a
neural development disorder diverse sorry, neurodevelopmental disorder that impacts the

(33:42):
prefrontal cortex of the brain, the area responsible for executive functions,
emotional regulation, and impulse control, among other things. Those symptoms
may shift and change with age, they rarely go away altogether.
So you had as a child will most likely have
it as an adult. But a d h D in
adults looks and acts different than in children. But unfortunately,

(34:06):
the clinicians diagnostic criteria as outlined in the d s
M five does not differentiate adult versus childhood symptoms, which
can sacrifice the accuracy of assessment. So there is an
a d h D test. It was developed by the
World Health Organization and it's how often do you have

(34:30):
difficulty concentrating on what people say to you even when
they are speaking you directly and you can answer very often, often, sometimes, are, rarely,
or never? So there's five options, Very often, often, sometimes, rarely, never.
How often do you leave your seat in meetings or
other situations in which you're expected to remain stated? Very often, often, sometimes, rarely, never.

(34:51):
How often do you have difficulty unwinding and relaxing when
you have time to yourself when you're in a conversation.
How often do you find your self finishing the sentence
of the people you are talking to before they can
finish it themselves. How often do you put things off
until the last minute? How often do you depend on
others to keep your life in order and attend to details? Now,

(35:13):
I don't relate to a lot of those, So then
you go to, well, there's a female a d h
D test symptoms and women and Girls. And I know
that this is very binary, and I'm sorry. I don't
mean to exclude um our trans friends and non binary folks.
I can only talk about my experience as assist gendered woman,
and so I'm just going from my own experience right now,

(35:35):
and I would assume that anyone who fits these symptoms
this this is an a d h D diagnostic test.
I think the reason it's put this way, as in
Women and Girls is again, a d h D diagnoses
were usually based on studying young boys. Okay, so is

(35:59):
it impossible for you to shut out sounds and distractions
that don't bother others? Again? We go very often, often,
sometimes rarely. Never do you start the day determined to
get organized and end the day feeling defeat at ding
ding me very often? Do you feel like you're always
at one end of a deregulated activity spectrum, either a
couch potato or tornado me ding ding very often? I

(36:22):
literally and that, but as different than mania. It's not
like you're up all night going, you know, It's it's
just you either feel like you're this whirling dervish of
a person, good or bad or you just have to
hold up and be by yourself for like a day.
Are you called a slob or spacey h? No, but

(36:43):
very often often, sometimes rarely never are you clueless as
to how others managed to leave consistent, regular lives ding? Ding?
Very often? Do you feel as if life is out
of control and that it's impossible to meet demands? Yes?
Very often. Do you feel like you're passing for normal
but you're really an imposter? Yes? For me the one.
Very often. Do you hesitate to have people over to
your house because you're ashamed of the mess? No? Never, immaculate,

(37:06):
that's the one way I'm not an ad D. Do
you feel overwhelmed at stores, at the office, or at parties? Yes?
Does time, money, paper, or stuff dominate your life and
hamper your ability to achieve your goals? Me? Very often
I get stuck in the nitty gritty minutia that getting
someone to help me with things would solve and I
could have more time to achieve goals UM in work

(37:29):
and creativity. And it's a miracle I've gotten far enough
in my career UM because I have so often been
focused on these little minusha things that are important. Do
you request for one more thing at the end of
the day put you over the top emotionally, yes, very often.
Have you ever been thought of as selfish because you
don't write thank you notes or send birthday cards? I

(37:51):
think I must sometimes on that one. I think there
are times in my life where I just cannot comprehend
things like that. Do you watch others of equal intel, legends,
and education pass you by? Do you despair of ever
fulfilling your potential in meeting your goals? Do you shut
down in the middle of the day feeling assaulted? Is?
Do you have trouble balancing your checkbook? Do you feel

(38:12):
that you have better ideas than other people but are
unable to organize them or act on them. Is your
time and energy taken up with coping, staying organized, and
holding it together with no time for fun or relaxation.
I'm feeling that one. So that's the last question. Listen

(38:35):
to this quiz. This is rejection sensitive dysphoria test. This
is another UM. It's rejection sensitive dysphoria, or the extreme
emotional pain linked to feelings of rejection and shame, commonly
affects adults with a h T. Use this self test
to determine if your symptoms mentioned match those of ours team.

(38:57):
So again, this isn't its own to sort er. It's dysphoria.
It's one of the symptoms of a d h D.
So rs D rejection sensitive dysphoria is an intense emotional
response caused by the perception that you have disappointed others
in your life, and that because of that disappointment, they
have withdrawn their love, approval, or respect. The same painful

(39:19):
reaction can occur when you fail or fall short of
your rather high goals and expectations. This can plague both
children and adults, even when no actual rejection has taken place.
It's difficult for people with a d h D to describe,
but all who have it agree that it feels awful. Indeed,
the term dysphoria is literally Greek for unbearable. Often those

(39:42):
with rs D hide these intense emotional reactions from other
people and feel ashamed of their vulnerability. The condition often
triggers a profound and wide reaching sense of failure, as
though the person with rs D hasn't measured up to
personal or external expectations. So this is a test that

(40:03):
you can take to see if you relate with r
s D rejection sensitive dyspharior, which again is a common
trait of a d h D. Your options are very often, often,
sometimes rarely or never. Do you experience sudden, intense bouts

(40:26):
of rage when your feelings are hurt? Do you experience
sudden intense abouts of extreme sadness when you think you
have been rejected or criticized? Are you your own harshest critic?
Do you feel anxious in social situations because you assume
that no one likes you? Do you consider yourself a

(40:46):
people pleaser, going above and beyond to get on someone's
good side. Do you pass up opportunities or start avoiding
projects because you're afraid you'll fail. Have you been called
overly sensitive or a head case because of your strong
emotional reactions. Do you dedicate more time than is necessary
to a project or become perfectionistic to make sure your

(41:09):
work has no mistakes and is above reproach. Do you
ever experience your emotions as physical sensation, as though you've
been punched in the chest or physically wounded. Do you
feel shame about the quote lack of control you have
over your emotions Before you were diagnosed with a D
h D. Were you told you might have a mood

(41:31):
disorder a borderline character disorder. Do you shy away from
close friendships or romantic relationships because you worry that if
people know the real you, they won't like you. Do
you assume the worst in commonplace interactions, worrying you'll be
fired every time your boss calls you into their office,
for instance. Do you think that you cannot go on

(41:52):
feeling this way? Do you avoid meeting new people or
trying new things because your fear of rejection and criticism
is so strong? So that was the rs D Rejection
sensitive dysphoria test. Okay, So now you've taken your a
d h D tests right, and you're thinking, Yeah, I

(42:14):
think I think I might have this? Now what you know?
This is so exciting. I'm so glad that I I
think I have a diagnosis. But but what do we
do about this? Well, you can find an h D
h D specialist and get, you know, an official diagnosis.
Professionals who are trained in diagnosing a d h D

(42:35):
will routinely screen for a comorbidity like a learning disability
or mood disorder, or an autism spectrum disorder. If you
are a parent of a challenge. You can ask a
school psychologist or a guidance counselor for a referral. You
can talk with your internist or your child's pediatrician, but

(42:56):
start the conversation as saying, I've noticed these symptoms in
myself or my wild and I like evaluations. Do you
know if someone who specializes in diagnosing a d h D.
You can check with your insurance obviously, um if there
are experts trained in diagnosing a d h D covered
by your health insurance plan, then you will be able
to look those up. You can call your local chapter

(43:19):
of the National Alliance on Mental Illness or c h
A d D and ask for the names of people
who specialize in a d h D. People are getting
brain scans now, then they do reveal that certain parts
of the brain appear different in people who have a
d h D than in people who don't. You don't
need a brain scan there to be diagnosed with a
d h D, and they're not the standard of care.

(43:41):
But and they're not a cost effective way you're spending
your health care money, and they don't contribute much to
the diagnosis. But some patients do love seeing a picture
of their brain, and the scans can often help them
own their diagnosis. Now you want to learn how to
manage your A d h D symptoms. After you've been
diagnosed out, you'd want to follow up and make sure

(44:04):
to get therapy with a psychologist, therapist, a d D coach,
or another expert. You might want to get recommendations for
a d h D medication if considered appropriate, and then
scheduling follow up appointments with the diagnosing physician or psychiatrist.
There are common mistakes that people who get an a
d h D diagnosis make, so a lot of times

(44:26):
people will not take enough time to get a thorough
evaluation that can't always be done in a fifteen minute visit.
Rushed visits create the likelihood that you or your child
will be misdiagnosed and that the doctor could miss a
secondary diagnosis that may be important to treat diagnosing the
symptoms not the underlying problem. Physicians sometimes misdiagnosed secondary symptoms

(44:48):
as the person's primary problem without looking for coexisting a
d h D. So, in other words, you could have
something that is an a d h D that's a comorbidity,
or you could have a d h D and your
doctor thinks the symptoms you're talking about are are some
other things, which I think was my case of position
may focus only on your mood disregulation, which is a

(45:10):
symptom intrinsic to a d h D, and they may
make a mood disorder diagnosis that completely is a mistake
and misses your other underlying a d h D symptoms.
Another mistake people make is sticking with a doctor you
don't like. If you don't feel a positive connection with
your doctor, if they don't seem to respond to you
as a person, or they reprimand you for asking too
many questions, you will not have confidence in their diagnosis,

(45:34):
and obviously treatment won't go well. So lastly, there are
seven self defeating behaviors that aggravate a d h D,
and I talked about one of them trying to do
everything yourself. The seven are poor nutrition. That was something
I wanted to talk about earlier, with the craving of
the kind of sugary things at night or just something

(45:55):
to stimulate my brain. A lot of times I wasn't
having enough protein in the day, and or it was
like not enough protein closer to the end of the day,
so that it does something to how full you feel,
but it also helps regulate your sugars, and so for me,
it was making sure to eat more sugary things, even

(46:18):
if it's just fruit, like at the beginning of the day,
not towards the end of the day. We're in a
few hours, I'll have another craving for it. I don't
personally get snacky or craving in the late morning or afternoon.
For me, it's always after six, So I could have
a bagel and like a glasses something sugary if I

(46:39):
wanted to eat that way and a few hours later
if it's daytime, probably not be that effective by it,
but it's just something about like the end of the
day really crashes me and I need stim And that
was another thing that we're got kind of confused with
an emotional disorder, is you know, the therapist will ask
you questions, does this happen when you're alone? Yes, Oh,

(46:59):
you have trouble being alone, And it's like, I love
being alone. It doesn't happen when I'm out with people
after six because I'm stimulated by conversation or the sensations.
You know, maybe we're out of play or maybe we're
walking around. You know, dopamine is being created taking a
walk with a friend, laughing with a friend, going to

(47:20):
see a Broadway show, you know, whatever you're doing. Eating.
Sometimes I have trouble calming down and coming down from
a fun night out. So I might really really want
to go to bed at ten because I have to
get up at six am, and I might get home
by ten. And there's something that I don't have trouble
transitioning from the fun I just had with all of

(47:43):
these people. And it's not the thing of I need
to be around people all the time. I come home
and I'm lonely, and so you know, I'm I. It's
not that, but it can get confused with them, right.
It's like, I really am intrinsically excited to be home
by myself and to go to bed. But I need
to give myself a buffer. I need a kind of
a transition ritual to bring myself down and embrace the positive,

(48:11):
excited energy that I have that I just had this
great time. But I have to come down without crashing, right.
I have to come home and not keep the stimulation
up by deciding, oh, do some writing, or I'll watch
a movie or you know, I'll have warm, more drink
or whatever it is. It's like you you know that

(48:32):
you want to actually go to bed, but you don't
feel it yet because you're still kind of jacked up.
Now again, any normal person might feel that way, but
with a d h D it becomes a problem because
it's like it's like almost impossible to make yourself do
a thing you actually want to do, which is go
to bed and calm down. It's like hard. So you know,
I've had that misdiagnosed as not wanting to be alone,

(48:52):
and I'm like, God, that doesn't ring true though. So
poor nutrition and staying hydrated is a big part of
helping with your a d h D. Another self defeating
behavior is too much screen time. Another self defeating behavior
is beating yourself up negative self talk, don't take yourself

(49:15):
so seriously and track your successes. Another self defeating behavior
of d h D is psyching yourself out. You want
to have all the answers before you take the first
step towards something, but you don't need the full picture.
Self defeating behavior number five multitasking. We often think that
we're really good at multitasking, but it's a myth, because

(49:38):
we have to realize that we can't shift our attention
from one item to the next, back and forth during
a multitask seamlessly. It is going to be a disaster.
You need to focus on what I am doing now,
What I'm not doing now important, but again not what

(49:59):
I'm doing out. These are things you have to say
to yourself while you get the urge to multitask. Self
defeating behavior number six trying to do it all yourself.
Maybe you need help with a task putting something together,
maybe you need to delegate something at work, maybe you
need to hire a part time assistant just for one
big project that you have. Whatever it is. A self
defeating behavior is doing it all yourself. And number seven

(50:20):
self defeating behavior that d d ars have is worrying.
Remember the past is gone, the future is not predictable,
and listen to your inner dialogue, monitor the negative self talk.
So I hope any of that was helpful. I know
it's just a little bit of an extra primer from me. Again,
everything I read to you I got from Attitude mag

(50:43):
dot com. I have a couple more emails to read
that are not about a d h D. And before
I do that. I also wanted to talk about an
episode that we recorded that we never got to air

(51:04):
because of a terrible, terrible sound issue that we didn't
realize until we tried to edit the episode. And my
guest for that episode is an author, writer and photographer
named Frea Benson, and she is a trans woman living

(51:26):
in the UK, and she wrote a book called Anxiety
for Trans People and it's such a great The Anxiety
Book for trans People, How to Conquer Your Dysphoria, Wearing
Less and fine. Joy and Frey and I didn't interview together.
God almost probably could have been almost a year ago,

(51:46):
and we banked a lot of episodes in advance, and
when we came to editing this one, it was like,
oh my god, that we were using zoom still and
she was way way out in this kind of remote
part and the connection wasn't great but and sometimes it
would sort of make sounds. But I thought that all
sound fine, and it just didn't. It would have it

(52:08):
would have driven you completely mad because when both of
us talked to her, because and our editors did the
best they couldn't, they got it down to sounding pretty okay,
but it was it was just really like the sound
quality was just not there, and you missed kind of
every other word. It was maddening, and we tried to reschedule,
but I had by that point, I had an almost

(52:30):
impossible schedule where I could only do like a certain
morning hour in New York City and um Phrase in
the UK, and our days and times did not add up.
But I told Fred that I wanted to still talk
about our interview and what I loved about her book

(52:50):
and just chatting to her was again as we've seen
with anyone who's come on the show, whether they're talking about,
you know, anxiety and women are anxiety in black population,
or anxiety in men or whatever. If you don't identify
as you know, a certain gender, or if this you know,
you're a different race than what the topic is that

(53:12):
we're talking about, there's still something in it for everybody.
And what I found cool about phrase book that I
don't see in a lot of books about anxiety was
the goal as stated in the title, how to Conquer
Your Dysphoria, Wearing Less and Fine Joy. There was not
so much talk ever finding joy. You know, usually a

(53:34):
lot of anxiety help books kind of end with and
once you get all these problems wrapped up and you're
able to look at things in a different way. You know,
then you'll live your best life. And it's like, well
how do I do that? You know? And some of
the solutions that Freya had for finding joy we're simple things.
And and again I think people with anxiety do this

(53:56):
all the time. We look at something that says, go
outside in nature, hern on music and dance. Do you
have an artistic ability that you maybe don't want to
do for a living. But do you paint? Do you draw?
Do you right? Do you sing? Is it something you
can do around your home and you know, or simply
go out with friends anything? And you might look at that.

(54:18):
I know for most anxious people we do have a
streak of perfectionism. So when someone says, you know, you're
going to find the joy in your life, and then
you look at a list of what brings joy, I think, well,
that's not enough. I want the big joys. I want,
you know, I don't know, to fall in the most
love anyone's ever fallen in and everything perfect and every

(54:39):
day just be on a high. And it's like that's
not really what joy is, you know, that's like impossible
situations and being high. But joy is you are able
to kind of balance around from thing to thing. You know,
you go to work, I mean, you go home, but
you find your joy in between. Do you pick flowers?

(55:01):
Do you garden? Do you cook? You're saying dance right
all that you you actually are able to participate in
things that bring you joy without your anxiety and your
worry stopping you. A lot of times are worry and
our anxiety and our whatever our issue is, we want
to just sit and focus on that, like, but not

(55:23):
in the way that helps us overcome it, Like we
feed it with worry, or we feel unmotivated, or we
think it's going to take a lot more than you know,
gardening to get me out of this funk that I mean,
And usually you're not right about that, And so I
like that the goal was overcoming anxiety to find your joy.

(55:47):
And usually the joy has already existed inside of you.
It's not like now you've got to go figure out
what makes you happy. It's like, there's stuff that makes
you happy. It's not doing it because you're having all
this anxiety. But there was also interesting things for anyone
in my audience who is trans or non binary is is.

(56:07):
Freya has a specific tool kit for managing anxiety as
a trans or non binary person, exploring specific triggers like
coming out, gender dysphoria, voice anxiety, transphobia, validity, passing, gender expectations,
you know, and and just sort of what it's like
and for people to understand how to be a better ally,
what it's like to go to a party with your

(56:30):
sister friends if your trans, and just sitting there worrying
how someone's going to react to you or what they'll
say to you, you know, And it's not even a
matter of what if they beat you up. It's like, yes,
that's the extreme example, but just unkind and uncouth and
invasive and rude things that people say, you know, and

(56:52):
just having to deal with that, having to do sometimes
the emotional labor for other people at a party, or
having to all your friends, you know, if this happens,
please do that. I mean a lot of times, if
you've got the right people in your life, you they
may kind of instinctively know, but you know that's everyone's
I guess decision on their own or feeling unsafe, you know,

(57:13):
walking around in the world or walking home from said party,
where your sister friends may have a totally different experience
walking them, And there were a lot of What I
liked about her book too, is there's a lot of
practical things like, Okay, I want to transition, I want
to get a certain surgery, Okay I can't afford it. Okay, Well,

(57:34):
how do I take these next steps and and live
the next few years in a way that I think
would not be exactly how I want to live? But
how do I how do I work on that anxiety?
And so it was very specific. And then also I
feel that you don't have to be trans, transitioning or
non binary to get a lot out of this book

(57:57):
as well. And so chew out out to BRA events
and I'm sorry that there are audio is so challenging,
but highly recommend the Anxiety Book for trans people, How
to Conquer your justys, for your worryless and find joy.
If that is something that speaks to you, I will
put the link in the show notes as well. So

(58:19):
here are just some last few emails from some listeners.
And as you can see, I'm kind of stalling because
I put my papers, I put them behind something. Here
we go, Okay, Jen, thank you for your podcast. It's
really helping me learn and grow from anxiety. It's helped
me accept the fact that anxiety never truly goes away,

(58:41):
but with healthy coping skills, it's more manageable. Love listening
from Jenny Melanie says, just found the podcast and your
interview with Judy Gold was amazing. I was bullied relentlessly
as a kid and could relate to every word about
how that trauma lives in the body. I have the
same response to some of the taunts. If I hear
of them again, I just recoil and my body instantly reacts.

(59:04):
I have a daughter with anxiety as well, and we
work every day to help try to push through the
triggers or the episodes. Thank you for such a great episode.
I'm a new fan. And lastly, somebody wrote, Jen, how
do I deal with a specific anxiety around bed bugs? Now?

(59:26):
I have no idea, but I'll tell you one thing.
I don't believe you need to find someone who specializes
in a bed bug phobia a bed bug oop session.
I think you can do a few things, and I
would recommend re listening to two episodes that I think
could be extremely helpful. First, the O. C. D. Episode

(59:50):
that um that we did I was gonna see a
few weeks ago. It's actually God, it's actually a couple
of months ago now. But if you listen to the
episode thirty two, it came out May eleven with O
c D specialist and therapist Kimberly Quinlan. The episode is
called the a b CS of O c D. Now,
it doesn't mean you have o c D. But I

(01:00:12):
do think in the realm of obsessive compulsive disorder, people
even without o c D can be helped by What
she talks about is the exposure therapy of your own thoughts. So,
do you need to be exposed to bed bugs to
get over this fear or worry that they're there when
they're not. No, But for you, it's it seems more

(01:00:35):
about exposing yourself to your thoughts, and so listen to
that episode with that in mind, about finding safe ways
to expose yourself to your thoughts about bed bugs and
when you worry, and replacing those thoughts more you you're
going to need to do your own digging on this,

(01:00:56):
but it's definitely going to be You may never stop
the thoughts about that coming into your head, but that's
how people handle kind of an obsessive thought loop is
you have to expose yourself to your thoughts and learn
how to make them not so powerful. Then you may

(01:01:17):
want to think about listening to the talk of positive psychology.
In my episode forty one Therapy for Gay Men released July,
psychiatrists Kenna Howard talks about using positive psychology with his patients,
and some of them have worries about things. You know,

(01:01:37):
you're not saying, I'm worried a dragon is going to
fall out of the sky. Um, that's never happened, but
people have had bed bugs, right, and it could happen
to you. There's nothing you can there's no way to know,
you know, it might happen. So I would recommend listening
to that episode and zeroing in on the parts where

(01:01:58):
Ken talks about dealing with some of his patients who
have fears of things that exist in the world and thinking, okay, well,
what would you do that happened? Okay? And then what's
not you know, taking yourself down the logical plan. You know, Okay,
well I contact my doctor and watched the sheets, you know,
whatever you do with bed bugs. And then besides that,

(01:02:21):
if you want to take kind of a more spiritual approach.
You can think this is something that was said to
me once. You know, if I didn't, if I wasn't
thinking and worrying about bedbugs, what what could I be
thinking right now? And that's a two pronged thing. It means,
is there a real underlying problem in my life that
I'm not looking at, but the bed bug obsession keeps

(01:02:45):
me focused away from feeling the feelings of X Y Z.
Or is it imagine the fun and creative and great
things I could be thinking if I weren't so focused
on this now. That is a tough thing to say
to someone with actual o c D. So I'm not
suggesting you use that little whimsical thought to overcome a
real disorder that needs exposure and commitment therapy or acceptance

(01:03:07):
and commitment therapy and exposure therapy. But it's just something
to keep in mind. You know, thoughts are free if
you wanted to think that sometimes. Who knows how that
might help you or might not. But I would just
suggest you know, even if we don't have full blown
this or full blown that, there's treatments within o c D.
There's treatments within a d h D there's treatments within

(01:03:31):
I don't know whatever panic disorder that can help all
of us in these areas of life where we might
have this one little thing that is just stuck for us.
You know, there's nothing wrong with using some of the
techniques and tricks and therapies prescribed to people that have
a disorder that you don't have. There's always one or

(01:03:53):
two symptoms here and there that you can relate with.
So I hope that helps and it We'll see you
next week. My guest will be Dr Julie Smith. I
won't have takeaways from this episode on my website because
it was kind of all over the place. I usually
don't with the solo episodes because I really don't like

(01:04:16):
saying this is this other amazing thing I said, But again,
highly recommend checking out Attitude magazine dot com. I'll put
the link in the show notes to that and to
other things I've mentioned in this episode. Thanks again for
writing in and for listening, and we'll see you next
week on the finale of Anxiety Bites and remember Anxiety Bites,

(01:04:41):
but You're in Control. For more podcasts from my Heart Radio,
visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcast or wherever
you listen to your favorite shows,