June 19, 2025 • 45 mins
John Benjamin Hickey aka THE GUY WHO HAD TO SHOWER EVERY TIME HE HAD SEX WITH MIRANDA!
Who could ever forget Thomas John Andersen, Miranda’s hot date who turned out to be one odd bird!? We wanted to revisit the Season One finale and get down and dirty about this character! You will recognize John Benjamin Hickey from dozens and dozens of your favorite shows but this Sex and the City episode is truly unforgettable.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hi, I'm Kristen Davis, and I want to know are
you a Charlotte? This is very exciting, you guys. We
are in the sidebar part of Are You a Charlotte,
which is catching up with friends, and here we have
the incredible John Benjaminicky.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (00:20):
Now we are a little bit past his episode. I've
been trying to get him on. Okay, he's a hot ticket,
you guys.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
I didn't realize.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
I was so busy. Yeah, we were much desired.
Speaker 3 (00:28):
Trying to figure out what I was doing that I
could be so unavailable.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
But here I am.
Speaker 1 (00:32):
That's okay. It was important stuff. You told me at
the premiere what you're doing, and I totally understand. Yes,
it's okay, it's okay, but you're here now and that's
all that matters. So John is in the first season,
which really surprised both of us.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
We thought it was like later on in the run.
Speaker 3 (00:47):
Absolutely, I would have probably said end of the second
maybe even the third third.
Speaker 1 (00:51):
Which I think of as our best season. If we
have to pick an overall season in.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
My episode for your episode, that's.
Speaker 1 (00:58):
Why I'm saying I would put it in the bed
because it's such a good episode and it was written
by Michael Patrick King, which you can completely tell. Oh god, yes,
John plays the Catholic Guy. He has a real name,
is called Thomas John Anderson, which is kind of funny
because John Benja three and he's playing Michael Patrick King
basically and his own episode, and he is called the
(01:19):
Catholic Guy. That's what we call him in the shorthand
to the friends. And he's opposite Cynthia and they are incredible.
This episode was directed by Matthew Harrison. We don't have
a ton of memories about him. We're really sorry, I
who it's apologized.
Speaker 3 (01:31):
If I never remember the direct vivid memories of MPK
not directing me, but just he's such a brilliant, extraordinary
presence on set and his writing was so great that
I remember him and of course have known him all
these years after. But yeah, I don't remember the directors.
I know, but that's not because he didn't direct a
great episode.
Speaker 1 (01:49):
Absolutely, because that's an episode.
Speaker 2 (01:50):
Good director disappears a little bit.
Speaker 1 (01:52):
This is a good point. And you also direct, so
you know very well. You know very well, so tell
us your memories and your thoughts about the new It
was relatively new show.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
Yeah, how is this a G rated program?
Speaker 3 (02:03):
Okay, great, Well, what I vividly remember is being on
top of Cynthia, having being in the throes of passion
and having orgasm after or fake orgasm after orgasm, and
getting up and sharing. And you know a lot of
people have seen it in syndication and all that stuff's out,
but in the I guess the DVD or box set
(02:25):
or whatever you call it these days, you.
Speaker 2 (02:27):
See all of those sex scenes.
Speaker 3 (02:29):
So what I remember most vividly is being in bed
in flagrante with Cynthia Nixon. Thank goodness, I had known her.
We'd done a play together, which is the way you
get very intimate, very quickly, is by being on stage together.
And we had such a great time doing this play
and such a great rapport and such great trust that
(02:51):
we immediately threw ourselves into it. And you know, this
was before Sex and the City was Sex and the City,
So going to that set and having to do such
a huge.
Speaker 2 (03:02):
Sex scene was really nerve racking.
Speaker 3 (03:06):
Nerve racking, So that's my biggest memory is just being
on top of Cynthia, and you know, and then the
casual after an hour or two, it becomes so casual, like,
what are you gonna have for lunch? I think I'm
gonna have that, you know, totally both yeah, naked, and
I mean we all had We've talked about cook socks
and all that stuff. Yeah, right, right right, and I
(03:28):
guess I remember the cok sock as well.
Speaker 1 (03:30):
There you go. Very memorable. I mean the thing about
Cynthia too, which is a theme in every guy that
I've ever spoken to who was opposite hers, that she
has no real fear or self consciousness about it.
Speaker 3 (03:42):
Yeah, no she doesn't. But listen, this is the all
of your reputations precede you when actors go on your show.
And this was true twenty how many years ago, twenty.
Speaker 4 (03:53):
Five years, twenty seven or six, unbelievable, And now you
get a job on that show and you're decided to
go there because of the way you guys treat people.
Speaker 3 (04:03):
It's guesting on a show, even if you're in the
first season or now, is being is like being forced
to go to somebody else's office Christmas party. You know,
there might be a little bit of a feeling of
nobody really understands why you're there, but you're there, and
so it's very important for the top of the call sheet.
(04:24):
To treat people, you know, this very very well. To
make people feel comfortable one of the biggest parts of
the job. And this was a show that did that
even then. And you know, Cynthia was amazing that way,
because she's so free, such a great actress, and so
unintimidated and unintimidating.
Speaker 1 (04:46):
Absolutely. I mean it's funny because she sometimes I would
be so worried if she had one of these scenes
because I was like, she's not going to take care
of herself, and you know, not with you, because you're
a season pro. But like sometimes people just grab an
all crazy way and no one would say like stop,
and I think, like I should go, I should go,
and she'd be like delicate, delicate, you know, But she
(05:07):
didn't care. And that's so freeing when you're watching her.
Speaker 3 (05:09):
Yeah, yeah, really, she's really she's really fearless. We went
on to do another series together called The Big c
and had so many sex scenes. Like I think maybe
as many sex scenes as Cynthia has played over the years,
I might be at the top of the list of
the just the quantity.
Speaker 2 (05:28):
I love it, and I hope the quality. But you
did a lot.
Speaker 3 (05:32):
Together, and oh my god, by the end of our
run on the Big Sea together, we were.
Speaker 1 (05:36):
Like amazing, like an old Mary com I know, really
love that because you're so perfectly matched. You know, you
are so complex as an actor, which I think you
often like are more into your directing now and whatever.
But to me, whenever I watch you on film, you're
so complicated, and she also has so many layers, and
she kind of does it so effortlessly. Wish you as well,
because you've been doing it so long. It's very interesting
(05:58):
to watch. I could see why they would cast you
again opposite each other. It makes perfect sense. So way back,
take yourself way back. Do you remember, like, what were
you doing? You've done this play with Cynthia. You were
on Broadway, you were doing yep.
Speaker 3 (06:10):
I want to say I done a play a playwrights
rising It's called on the Bum with Cynthia, which is
one of the great experiences of both of our lives.
Speaker 2 (06:17):
I think she would say the same.
Speaker 3 (06:18):
It's just an amazing group of actors, a very large
cast and all of off Broadway's finest Campbell, Scott and yeah,
just incredible people. And Cynthia and I really had a
great bond. I do remember that her mother sent me
a note. Cynthia was very and if her mom liked
an actor she was playing opposite.
Speaker 2 (06:37):
You really rose in the ranks. You rose in her eyes.
I'm still very proud of that.
Speaker 3 (06:43):
Yeah, and so I feel like I knew going in
that that I was going to be well taken care of.
Speaker 2 (06:56):
I don't remember. I don't think I auditioned for the part.
Speaker 3 (07:01):
I think I was offered the part, which so perfect, Yeah,
which was very rare back then.
Speaker 2 (07:04):
I auditioned for everything happily.
Speaker 3 (07:06):
Would audition again if it was a role like what's
his name, Paul Thomas Anderson.
Speaker 1 (07:11):
That's a director, Thomas J and N Anderson.
Speaker 2 (07:16):
But I don't remember auditioning for it.
Speaker 1 (07:18):
But would that have been Sir Jessica's relationship with you?
Speaker 3 (07:22):
Maybe, yes, we were. We were close back then, but
we got really close. Maybe in seasons three, four and
five we were. We got closer as friends then in
the beginning, I don't think we were quite that close.
We knew each other, but not that well. To be
completely honest, I don't know. I don't know.
Speaker 1 (07:42):
I think it was because you were so perfect for
that part.
Speaker 3 (07:45):
I guess uh, and and you know, but there's a
there's a fear in that because if you haven't auditioned,
you're going in and you're thinking, I hope they I
think they've made the right decision, and I hope I
don't show up and they're like, oh, that's not what
we wanted, because if you have auditioned, then they've seen
what you're what you're bringing. So I went in cold,
(08:09):
and when you're having to do nude scenes, you want
to be very warm. You want to be warm warmed
up pretty quickly. And I think it was one day.
Maybe you're kidding, Yeah, maybe, Oh my god.
Speaker 1 (08:21):
You're so tremendous. It's crazy to think you would have
done that in one day because you're so mad. You
get so angry when she tries to tell you not
to shower.
Speaker 2 (08:30):
I'm on the rain, complete Catholic meltdown. Oh excuse me.
Speaker 3 (08:35):
I'm so sorry that you think I'm not going to
go to hell for having sex.
Speaker 1 (08:39):
Yeah, yeah, that fixes it. You're like, that fixes it
right away. It's so good.
Speaker 3 (08:44):
And I vividly remember MPK and the wonderful director saying
go further, because you know, I was a theater actor
and I was like, oh boy, that was probably really
over the top, and Michael's like, no, get madd go further,
really lose your on her and loving it and having
a ball. And at that point we had simulated sex
(09:06):
and orgasm so many times together that we could do anything.
Speaker 1 (09:12):
Absolutely, absolutely, so for me, when I think back on
the first season, this is what's been so interesting to
rewatch it. First of all, I thought the first season
that we weren't together. When I watch it back, I'm like,
all the pieces are there. We might not have been
completely structurally together the writing, but like the acting and
everything is so great, so much better. Yeah, that I remember,
But we definitely did the whole first season without anything airing, right,
(09:35):
which is kind of wonderful in a way because you're
just being creative without any outside input, but also scary,
kind of like not auditioning for a part because you
have no idea how people are going to respond, absolutely,
and I remember having a lot of anxiety about that
and talking to each other like a people going to
freak out, which some people did right, And then it
went well and it got bigger and bigger. Like third
(09:57):
season is when I consider us to have gotten kind
of popular. That's what I felt at least, But do
you remember, like what was your feeling being on the
show and then having people see it.
Speaker 3 (10:06):
As you describe the only way I can really articulate
it is very niche Like my family in Texas didn't
have HBO, so and I was probably relieved because there
was so much sex going on that that I probably
had some relief in that. But I remember it being
(10:27):
very blue, you know, blue as in a little more
than R rated for the time, especially now it's like,
you know, but it felt way out in Queen's Yes,
and I mean that in the metaphoric sense as well.
Speaker 2 (10:44):
It seemed like to be way over there. HBO was
so the wild wild West. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (10:52):
And I it's interesting because I'm good pals with Darren
Star because my partner Jeffrey Richmond and he created this
beautiful show called Uncoupled Together, and I've spent time with
Darren through the years. But he talks about that first
season and he's very articulate about like none of us
knew really what we had or what you guys had
(11:14):
worked together before, of course, and he and Sarah had
never worked together. And then Michael coming in and doing
such an amazing job kind of helping the show explode,
and Darren gives him such a major props for that.
Yeah so, but everybody to a person never really talked
to MPK about it or like, wow, I wonder if this.
Speaker 2 (11:35):
Is ever going to.
Speaker 3 (11:38):
Catch more than just a specific population's imagination, because it
was really out there. So that's that's basically my memory exact.
It wasn't TV, baby, it was HBO, and TV was
a completely different thing, and now, of course everything is
(11:58):
kind of melded together, and Sex and the City was
the pioneer of that.
Speaker 1 (12:04):
Thank you. That's so nice, really is so tell me
you when I saw you at the premiere, which was
so nice to see there at our crazy, crazy party
that they threw for us.
Speaker 2 (12:12):
It's insane. I've never seen more people in my life.
Speaker 3 (12:14):
And let me just say too that, like I live
right down the street from where the party was, so
we threw on a pair of jeans, like let's just
go say hi. I mean because Sex and the City
and just like that have been such a part of
my life, our lives of Yeah, yeah, so long, I
don't think of it as a big deal. This party
was so fucking packed and so packed with young people.
(12:36):
I know, young young people who were just so happy
to be there were so maybe it did my heart
so good. It is so means so much to so
many people, not just us old folks.
Speaker 1 (12:47):
Absolutely absolutely, And also we didn't this was the first
time that they had thrown this type of an event,
fir Us. We used to it in the olden days,
which I'm sure you came yea of those huge parties
with the pr and that bed in front of like
Lincoln Zentner. Do you remember this, like insane level parties.
But this was not a premiere exactly, so we didn't
exactly know how to dress. We didn't really know what
(13:08):
we were doing, and we didn't really know who they
invent invited. And they kept talking about activations which were
still just like what you tell me, you're not knowing
it has to do with social media, and I don't
totally understand it, but in that party was a Hot
Fella's activation, and that's why those guys were their dresses
hot fellas. And I believe that, yes, Mario's Bakery and
(13:31):
just like that, and maybe there was bread there. I
don't know. I never saw any bread, but maybe there
was bread. I'm not sure. I'm not sure, but that
was an activation and then there was maybe another activation.
I don't know, but like there were just a lot
of people there, and I mean very cool people were
there who later texted me on Instagram that they'd been
there because I couldn't find anybody. We were in that
corner and we were like trapped in that corner.
Speaker 2 (13:52):
I mean, if you wanted to bread a hot cross
bun for one of those about twenty five.
Speaker 1 (14:00):
But it was so nice to see amazing, It was amazing.
Speaker 3 (14:03):
Also you bring up, you know, the bakery, and you
have such chemistry with such people who have.
Speaker 2 (14:10):
Been in my life.
Speaker 3 (14:11):
Mario and Evan, I mean have known Evan since, you know,
he made this massive uh took New York by storm
with his show Time under Fire, which was about his
sickness and yes, and he was just always been one
of my favorite actors and favorite people. And Canton, of
course I've known Mario Cantone replaced Nathan Lane in Love
Valor Compassion, which is the first Broadway play I did, Wow,
(14:33):
and he and I were instant best buddies, and it
remains one of my favorite people on the planet. And
how hard it must be to go to work with
Mario every day because he's not funny.
Speaker 2 (14:45):
He doesn't know how to do.
Speaker 1 (14:46):
It's so painful, Paul. I mean, the one challenge is
that Michael loves to give him like a lot of props,
and that's not really Mario's I was like, please let
me sing. I just want to say, I don't really
want to do you a microphone exactly, give you a microphone,
not a loaf of bread. But he's he's growing and expanding,
you know, every season.
Speaker 3 (15:04):
Credit because he's not I mean, he's a great actor,
but it was he hasn't done a lot of tell it.
Speaker 1 (15:09):
It wasn't his thing when we hired him. He was
and he was only supposed to do a few episodes,
as he told us when he came on the podcast,
which is also what I love. And it's amazing because
as much as I know you, I don't even know
all your connections. I just know that you're part of
the family.
Speaker 3 (15:21):
Well that yeah, when you're on a show in New York,
and when it's an as iconic a show as this
New York show as this is, and there are very
few who that are.
Speaker 2 (15:31):
You really do attract.
Speaker 3 (15:33):
That's one of the great things about shooting in New
York City, man, is you get Fanny Sternhagen, Mary and
Selda's you know, you get you get the greatest character
actors in New York.
Speaker 1 (15:52):
So when John Benjaminski who plays Thomas, John Anderson many
so many names in Oh Come All, Ye Faithful, Well
that's the episode just to refresher, but it was maybe
like three four episodes. We recapped it ago and is
the one where Carrie and Miranda go to a church
because Carrie wants to see Big and his mother because
(16:13):
she wants to hang out with him on Sunday. And
he says, no, I go to church every Sunday with
my mother, which She's just like what, And so she
wants to go. So they wear these huge hats because
they're going to hide up in the balcony of a
beautiful big church. I should know which one it is.
And then he comes out and she's across the street
and her joggers looking so cool with her cigarette, and
(16:34):
his mom is played by this incredible woman, incredible actress
and teacher named Mary and Sildas who was Hiickey's teacher
at Juli are.
Speaker 3 (16:41):
Yes As she was so many many, Kevin Klein, Patti Lapone,
from group one to I was Group eighteen to probably
group thirty five. Marian there ushering us into our careers
and our lives as actors. And there was no greater teacher,
no greater actor, no greater person of the theater in
the history of the twentieth century than Mary.
Speaker 1 (17:03):
Yes, her presence, I mean she doesn't have a lot
to do in our episode, but just her presence standing
there is so powerful.
Speaker 2 (17:09):
Absolutely, absolutely, it was real cool.
Speaker 3 (17:12):
And you were saying earlier she was so perfect as
BIG's mom because she's kind of a big person herself.
Speaker 1 (17:18):
Big presence, Yeah, intimidating and kind of aloof to where
you can't read her. It makes such perfect sense for
his character that he has a mom like that that
he kind of caters to. You know, it's super interesting.
Speaker 3 (17:29):
I did a production of The Crucible on Broadway and
with his credit it was Yeah, Laurea Lenny Liams an amazing,
amazing production and Brian the great actor Brian Murray was
in it. Who is Marian's best friend. And Marian came
to see the show and I said, oh God, I
hope Marian likes it. And he said, well, if she doesn't,
you're never going to know. I was like, what a
great thing, because she's such a gracious, warm human being.
(17:52):
She gives great backstage. You know, she's not there to
tear anybody down. She's Yeah, she's the greatest, the greatest.
Speaker 1 (17:59):
So you also said when I saw you at the party,
and I was I just looked at you. I didn't
even say anything, I don't think, and You're like, I'm
coming on the podcast. I was like, thank god, because
I've just been waiting. I'd just been waiting ran you'd come.
And you said, I have so many memories of Cynthia
Michael and I think you said Sarah too, So even
though you weren't super close, do you remember those early days,
because she remembers.
Speaker 3 (18:20):
Yeah, I just remember how lucky I felt. She had
done a play at Lincoln Center, and she, even though
she doesn't remember anything, she remembers meeting me, which is
a terribly flattering more than I do. She met me
on the stairs of Lincoln Center, and I think it
was what was what year?
Speaker 1 (18:41):
Was the first season we filmed? In ninety seven. I
didn't come on til ninety eight.
Speaker 3 (18:46):
Yeah, yeah, wow, Yeah, So we were really good pals
by then. I think I remember being very glad that
my stuff was with Cynthia because I had become the
kind of friend with Sarah at that point that that
I would have been.
Speaker 2 (19:06):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (19:06):
I think I would have been more intimidated by taking
my clothes off in front.
Speaker 2 (19:10):
I mean, that would be weird, and she would too.
Speaker 3 (19:12):
I mean she has we both know, and I'm sure
you've said many times she's an incredibly shy, discreet person
that she is not Carrie Bradshaw, which is a testament
to her just brilliant acting.
Speaker 1 (19:25):
Chops absolutely and in my mind just sidebar because you
know her so well. I believe that that's one of
the things that makes Carrie so interesting. Yeah, is Sarah's
own differences from the character and that kind of internal
conflict that that comes, and also that kind of friction
playing a character so long. Also, she just makes her
so deep.
Speaker 2 (19:44):
Yeah, so deep, so so deep. She's very all of you.
Speaker 3 (19:48):
It's like time has been so kind to those characters,
and you guys have too, Like you're it's like every
it's like you see it in your shoulders. Everybody is
just so relaxed, even when they're playing the most fraught
moments on the show. There's such a relaxation watching and
the newcomers as well, Oh, I know are just it's
such a lovely family now.
Speaker 2 (20:09):
It's really really great to say.
Speaker 3 (20:11):
But going back, I remember being glad it was Cynthia,
not because I didn't want to work with you or
with Sarah.
Speaker 2 (20:18):
I didn't know.
Speaker 3 (20:18):
You, and I knew Sarah in a way that would
have been like, oh man, I don't want to have
to pretend to bang her.
Speaker 1 (20:25):
I know that would be very weird. You know. I
had to kiss Matthew in a movie wow after the
show ended. So I had known him for many years
and I kept saying, this is so weird, and he
was like, no, it isn't. I was like, all right, Matthew,
not weird at all. Okay, I didn't have to have sex,
thank god, because I don't know how I would have
gone through it.
Speaker 3 (20:43):
Yeah, that would be weird to kiss Matthew. Yeah, but
Matthew's got that thing. Like a couple of times I've
seen Matthew nervous because I have directed him.
Speaker 2 (20:54):
It's weird to see Matthews.
Speaker 3 (20:56):
Matthew has lovely blood pressure maintenance, like he knows how
to in his work be very still and very calm.
Speaker 1 (21:05):
That's true and scary.
Speaker 2 (21:07):
Yeah, it's scary. It can intimidate the other person. Yes,
that's yeah.
Speaker 3 (21:11):
I'm like trying to juggle kittens meeting and Matthew's like,
why don't you just sit here and we'll do the scene.
Speaker 2 (21:17):
It's like that totally Okay.
Speaker 1 (21:19):
We got off on a Matthew tangent, which is rare
because almost no one has Matthew's story.
Speaker 3 (21:23):
Oh my goodness, I have to you should get Matthew
on this podcast.
Speaker 1 (21:28):
I don't think he'll do it. I mean every time
I see him, I'm just like and he's like, oh God,
there she comes.
Speaker 2 (21:34):
You'll get it, You'll get it.
Speaker 1 (21:35):
Maybe that would be awesome because I love to hear
the memories of the beginning. And that's part of the
reason I wanted to do the podcast is because everyone
was in such different places, coming from such different worlds.
I mean, even Cynthia and Sarah who had worked together,
known each other their whole lives almost still very different experiences,
and then we all came together in this kind of
crazy thing that just formed a.
Speaker 3 (21:54):
New and yeah, and everybody has what do they call it?
You know a sprie descalier, which is the French expression
for spirit of the staircase, the thing you like if
you and I are in a big fight and on
my way home, what I should have said to her was,
you know you remember the thing? So you have this
(22:15):
odd twenty twenty hindsight with the show, like you always
thought or somehow knew that it could be what it
has become.
Speaker 2 (22:24):
And no, not at all. Yeah, never in a million years.
Speaker 1 (22:28):
You know who could have jumped?
Speaker 3 (22:29):
Okay, I know this is you interviewed, but now you
signed on. Were you like gung ho?
Speaker 2 (22:36):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (22:37):
Oh I'm the most gung home. Yeah, I'm the most
gung host still to this day.
Speaker 2 (22:41):
Well that's fantastic.
Speaker 1 (22:43):
But in the beginning, because I was in La right,
but I had been an out of work actor here
right after I went to records right with Bill Asper
and everybody.
Speaker 2 (22:51):
So yeah, brilliant, brilliant Bills, I know.
Speaker 1 (22:53):
Incredible, And I moved here like everybody did, and we
were poor and you know, you waitress and you auditioned
and whatnot, which is hard to be poor here, absolutely right.
And then I went out to Berkeley. I did a
play and it was pilot season my agent said, come
down to LA on Mondays because there's so many parts
you could play, because I was still playing pretty young
at that point, and I was young, and I was
(23:14):
playing even younger.
Speaker 2 (23:14):
Do you play you were doing?
Speaker 1 (23:16):
I was doing Oh my god, Oh my god, my god,
I'm not.
Speaker 2 (23:18):
Going to Berkeley Rep. Yes, that's where I was when
I couldn't do your podcast.
Speaker 3 (23:22):
I was doing the production of Uncle Vanya with Hugh
Bonneville at Berkeley brilliant Speed of Light.
Speaker 2 (23:30):
Oh yeah, I feel like I don't.
Speaker 3 (23:31):
I feel like I know that play and if you
gave me more time, I would know who wrote it
right now.
Speaker 1 (23:36):
It's a it's a great playwright who I think went
to records. Yeah, yeah, my god, we have to look
this up. Anyway, I was there, which was incredible. It's
a special, special place. I love Berkeley Rep much. It
was great. It was great. But I went down to La.
It was sunny. I auditioned for sitcoms. I was like, m,
this seems an easier life than then the New York
(23:56):
City as a poor person, right, it's more work than
and now it's totally floating, which is so sad, But
what can you do? So I went I ended up
moving to la and then eventually a few years later,
I mean I don't remember how many, but a lot
of auditions later got Melrose. Then Darren sent me the
script and I was like New York City, like walking
the streets. Four lead characters that are women, unheard of
(24:21):
HBO confused that had the boxing.
Speaker 3 (24:24):
But hey, yeah, not no other show pre Sopranos. You
were it, right, So yeah, I've been a couple of
those dream.
Speaker 1 (24:31):
On and also Larry Sanders, yes, which was obviously, but
that's what I thought. We would be a small cult
like very industry you know, loved show and which has
lived on of course because it's so great, right, it's.
Speaker 3 (24:43):
Weirdly, it's still that what you just described. It's also
just a global phenomenon as well.
Speaker 1 (24:48):
Yeah, exactly, which is a weird. Like it's a very
weird and wonderful thing that happened. But in my gut
I felt the potential. I never could have dreamt two
movies and another there is no precedent to that, so
that wouldn't have come. But to me, I felt, yes,
it's very special and I will do whatever I have
(25:09):
to do to be on that show. Yeah, those women
and then once they told me Sarah because when they
Darren first sent it to me to read for Carrie,
and I could the way she was on the page
was much more like Candace is, you know, persona, and
I couldn't pull that off, smoking and swearing and you
know the girl. I was like that people are going
to laugh at me, right, So I was like, Darren,
please don't make me audition for that. I need to
(25:30):
beat this other one who was kind of in the
side over here that's me. And you know, thank god,
he listens and you.
Speaker 3 (25:36):
Really recognize, like, oh, I've got a think I relate
to this part. That's incredible because it's like all of
you were born to play those.
Speaker 2 (25:44):
Parts, you know.
Speaker 3 (25:45):
I know, we're so lucky that we found I do
remember in the early days of casting. I remember so
so so Sarah and I certainly were hanging out enough
to where she would talk to me about people that
she was interested in for I think was probably Symanthic,
because I think Cynthia was in early on.
Speaker 1 (26:03):
I mean, Cynthia wasn't, but she didn't feel she was in,
like they kept her dangling, do you.
Speaker 2 (26:09):
Know what I mean?
Speaker 1 (26:09):
And then I remember at one point they were talking
about hiring like a stand up comic or whatever from Miranda,
like they didn't know what to do, you know.
Speaker 3 (26:17):
Yeah, And now that I'm really thinking about it, your
brilliant casting director Jennifer Macnami.
Speaker 1 (26:24):
Yes, but I don't think we had her for the pilot.
I think we had Kerry Barton.
Speaker 2 (26:27):
Kerry Barton, Kerry carry.
Speaker 1 (26:29):
Jennifer when the show started, it was so great.
Speaker 3 (26:31):
And Jennifer's assistant, I think on that first season was
my old college friend, Camille Hickman is her name, And
Camille now works at Lincoln Center and she's one of
the great casting directors in New York. And she and
I had been best buddies at Fordham University, where I
had gone some ten years before Sex in the City,
and she would talk to me about this show is
(26:51):
so exciting and it's so weird and odd.
Speaker 2 (26:54):
I don't know if anybody's going to see it.
Speaker 3 (26:55):
And I also remember very vividly Camille had a small
part as one of the talking yes because did you do.
Speaker 2 (27:01):
Talking heads through the whole first season?
Speaker 1 (27:03):
Yes, And I mean we just Sarah Jessica just looks
at the camera. In the last episode I watched which
is in the second season, and you know she hated it.
Oh yeah, she hated it so much. But she looks
at the camera and then she makes a face which
I think was about having to talk to the camera.
Speaker 3 (27:18):
Of course, do you have you I'm sure you've probably
talked about it on the show. When was that decision made,
like we don't need.
Speaker 2 (27:24):
To do this.
Speaker 1 (27:25):
I feel like it was an ongoing thing. Michael Patrick hated.
Oh he did the talking to the camera. Melfie hated
the people on the.
Speaker 3 (27:33):
Street sidebar John Melfie who went to Ford him with
me and Camille. So I knew Melfie some ten twelve years.
Malfie and I'd known each other forty something years.
Speaker 1 (27:41):
I don't even know this incredible Malfie is the unsung
hero of our whole entire world. I told him in
Paris that he's got to come on the podcast. He
looked a little scared, because I think he likes his
secrets to remain on camera.
Speaker 3 (27:52):
Nobody knows more stories and knows where more bodies are buried.
Speaker 2 (27:56):
John Melphie.
Speaker 1 (27:57):
I know that's why I got to get him in
that chair. You better believe, right, I know I got
to loosen him up and get him in the chair.
But he would tell everything about everything, which would be great.
But he when he came he said his secret mission
was to get rid of the talking heads, and Sarah
Jessica's very open mission was to get rid of talking
to the camera, because I remember in the pilot her saying,
(28:20):
you know, do I have to talk to the camera.
It's so strange to break the fourth wall. I'm in
this scene. She's not wrong, I mean, it's a very
weird thing as an actor to do. And then what
she told me when she came on was that also
she had been worried about Ferris Bueller, which I had
never thought of. Oh wow, yeah, here of course is
this like you know, her husband's you know, humane iconic
(28:40):
film that he's done where he so brilliantly talks to
the camera pretty much the whole time exactly. She felt
like she was never going to live up to that,
which is so adorable, which I don't interesting. Yeah, but
she when I was sitting there, what I remember is
thinking that I had never seen an actress be able
to speak so clearly about what they wanted to do
(29:00):
and what they didn't want to do without being angry
or historyonic or whatever, just like very clearly articulating why
it was hard for her, why she felt like she
wasn't doing it well, how she felt like it was
better to stay with us in the scene. And I
was like, yes, yes, I agree with her, not that
anyone cares what I think over her, but I was like, yeah, yeah,
that's well put, that's well put. But it took her.
(29:21):
I mean, she's still doing it in season seven, second
second season, which I didn't even realize.
Speaker 3 (29:26):
That's amazing. I did not know it went on that long.
And frankly, I don't remember her doing it. I remember
more of the side people yeah doing it than which
is kind.
Speaker 1 (29:35):
Of interesting, and I think trying to be almost like
an anthology or like, you know, relating to the fact
that all kind of people are having all kinds of
relationship things that you don't know about, right like the
people on the street, This one's going to tell you
something surprising. That one's going to tell you something surprising.
I get the idea of, but it was taking story
time away from the bigger stories here.
Speaker 2 (29:54):
Well, you have twenty five minutes to pack four stories.
Speaker 1 (29:57):
In, right, Yeah, which is hard.
Speaker 3 (29:59):
Yeah, speaking of my partner, Jeff. He's a comedy writer,
wrote Modern Family for all eleven years, and he's like,
the hardest thing that there's eleven characters on that show
and they have twenty two minutes. And that makes me
think about writers like Michael Patrick and all the great writers.
Jenny Bicks ran The Big Sea, so many great writers
who have come into your world, and how difficult it
(30:22):
is to pull that off for four and now, however,
many you have extraordinary characters, and everybody's got to have
a story, and everybody needs their time.
Speaker 1 (30:32):
It's true, And I mean, I don't want to spend
much on this, but sometimes when you see people's criticism,
you're like, oh, do they know how hard it is?
Speaker 2 (30:39):
Yeah? Yeah, you know they don't. Yeah, no they don't.
Speaker 3 (30:42):
And you know, I think back to that first season
because I think we were recently overseas and sometimes you know,
a show will be on like an older versions of shows,
And I watched a few episodes and this was long
before you and I talked about doing this. But what
I remember when I was watching, it's like, Wow, not
only was it good, it got more sophisticated, it got
(31:06):
more maybe clever. It was always super smart. But before
it had flash, it had such warmth. It had such
warm I mean, it's the reason why it goes on.
It's because it's a love story. Yeah, love story, and
and and it had a confidence about that love from
(31:28):
the very get go. Even though the show evolved, I mean,
you know in that in the same way any great
writing would evolve. But it even though it took a
while to figure out we don't need the talking heads,
we don't it knew you guys, knew who you were.
Speaker 1 (31:45):
It's true. That's what I'm so surprised about when I
watched the first season.
Speaker 2 (31:48):
Were you was it were some? Was it was? It was? It?
Speaker 3 (31:54):
Was it first season nerve wracking? Or were you more
nervous when it became so successful? Because some times, you know,
it's scarier when there's a lot of responsibility, like yuah, oh,
where we're let's not blow this right, you know right?
Speaker 1 (32:10):
I think for me, because there's a whole long story
I'm not going to bore you with because all of
our listeners have heard it in my first episode of
the podcast, when I so I signed in my mind,
Sara Jessica did not sign a big deal, a big
pilot deal, which I didn't know about, And it's good
that I didn't about because I would have been super
nervous that she wasn't sewed up for like seven years, right,
But I did sign one. But then during the pilot,
(32:31):
which we were over budget. It was two point five
million dollars, which back then was a lot of money
for the pilot exactly. They were trying to cut costs,
and they tried to get me to sign a new
contract that would revoke my previous contract and make me
a series recurring for five thousand dollars an episode. Oh
my god, I know.
Speaker 2 (32:50):
Thank you. Heny tried to do this during all your ship.
Well that that's awful, I know, thank you. Yeah, what
it suggests is that you don't have the cough like that.
Speaker 1 (32:58):
I'm not. You're not seeing I'm.
Speaker 2 (33:00):
Trying to cut corners. You're like, wait a minute, Yeah,
I know.
Speaker 1 (33:04):
So I knew this, Brandon, tell you, I'm executives. I know,
and no one will take responsibility.
Speaker 2 (33:11):
Somebody knew.
Speaker 1 (33:12):
Somebody knew. I think those people aren't with us anymore. Yeah, whatever.
So I haven't gotten to the absolute bottom of it,
but I have. It's been very therapeutic. For me to
talk about it, because I'd never realize that. I never
told Sarah, I never told Cynthia. I never talked about
it except to my team. Because what I did was
this line producer knocked on my door, just hand me
this paper and said you need to sign this. And
(33:32):
I was like, oh, what's this and I read. I
was like, oh my god. And I called my lawyer,
who's still my lawyer all these many years later, and
he said, don't sign the paper. Take it home and
tell them that you forgot.
Speaker 2 (33:44):
Brilliant loves this lawyer every day.
Speaker 1 (33:46):
I know Jason Sloan incredible daughter Charlotte.
Speaker 4 (33:52):
For that.
Speaker 1 (33:52):
So he says, it's not going to me, but whatever,
I still love it. So every day they would knock
and every day I'd be like, oh, I'm sorry, I forgot.
You know, I'm a good girl, like so like it
took a lot from me. That's how badly I wanted
to stay on that show as a series regular.
Speaker 3 (34:09):
I have to say, it's not an un Charlotte storyline.
I know, Yeah, that's like, that's the story Michael. I
would write for her totally. It's so like her and
she'd be crafty. But it would seem like it was
under the guise of like, oh mind, yeah.
Speaker 1 (34:24):
Right, I can do that. I can actually do that
in life. It's kind of amazing what happened to me.
And what I saw when I looked back at the
first season was that inside I had the anxiety of
not being good. Oh of course, I mean yeah, And
it did work with Charlotte in a lot of ways.
And also Michael told me when he came on, he thought, oh,
I don't know how to write for that character. So
(34:44):
I was the one who wanted to get married, right,
and so it took him a while to understand me
enough and the character enough. And then Jenny came and
she knew how to write me, which is great because
she kept on the breast side. It was perfect, brilliant.
So the piece has come and you can see that
in my performance. You can see it in the writing
for sure. But so like when I look at myself,
there's some some episodes where I'm like, I am really
(35:04):
literally just trying to walk properly with them.
Speaker 2 (35:08):
You know, wow, yeah, nobody else does.
Speaker 1 (35:12):
I'm just trying to walk in those heels, in those
outfits back in.
Speaker 3 (35:17):
Fall Down and look like I belong here back in
La But you know, I've talked to and I'm sure
Sarah Jessica would would would has probably talked about this
with you on this podcast. But like every season you
guys start every movie, I will talk to her in
the first four days and She'll be like, I don't
know what I'm doing, I can't I feel so, I
(35:38):
don't know how to do this, and I'm not good
at this.
Speaker 2 (35:40):
And like you, that never goes away. True, no matter
how iconic you guys are, It's true.
Speaker 3 (35:48):
You never lose that, and you should We shouldn't of course.
It's the thing that keeps us alive to act too, Like.
Speaker 1 (35:55):
Why else would you want to do such a crazy
thing if it didn't bring all the feelings and.
Speaker 2 (35:58):
Challenge us totally?
Speaker 1 (36:00):
That's what we love.
Speaker 2 (36:01):
Yeah, and there's real no.
Speaker 3 (36:04):
Sense of security that's born out of this kind of success.
In fact, sometimes the very opposite as we talked about,
can happen.
Speaker 2 (36:10):
It can make you a little more kind of.
Speaker 1 (36:12):
That's true for me because I started out at the
crazy place of like are they going to keep me
or not? It did just get better.
Speaker 2 (36:19):
And you did that first season and then where you
sort of.
Speaker 1 (36:23):
Like you had to wait and see if they were
going to fire me.
Speaker 3 (36:26):
I'm sorry I lost that. I probably interrupted you. You
really even when that first season was over how many
episodes thirteen? Yeah, you were like, didn't know, maybe I'll
come back, maybe I won't exactly, Holy.
Speaker 1 (36:37):
Crap, I know. And I didn't tell any of them,
which is crazy to me that I didn't tell them,
do you know what I mean? But I think that
if I thought that, if they knew, they'd be like, oh, yeah,
maybe you're not going to have which of course they
wouldn't have, but like I just didn't have the security
in it all yet.
Speaker 2 (36:51):
Yeah, yeah, totally.
Speaker 1 (36:52):
So I was just on this like h exactly, didn't.
Speaker 2 (36:55):
Know if it was coming back much less you know,
it wasn't.
Speaker 1 (36:58):
No, we didn't know anything. I didn't know any thing, right,
So it was all good And then they were then
they were like, yes, yes, we do need it.
Speaker 2 (37:03):
I was like, thank you God, thank you. Was it
a rating success its first season?
Speaker 1 (37:18):
You know what? No one ever spoke about the rating?
Speaker 3 (37:21):
Yeah, those metrics are still to this day.
Speaker 1 (37:25):
I know, right, But I mean for me, I'd come
from network where like Monday morning you went in and
everyone was like, oh five point eight to ten point whatever.
No one cared. I'd be like, does anyone know if
anyone's watching it? They didn't care. You know what they
cared about. They cared about press. They wanted press hits.
Like we worked hard in the beginning. We talked to
anyone and everyone who would talk to us, because it
(37:45):
was the traditional press back then. Right, they didn't have
all the things we have now. And they cared about awards,
which took us a while to get there, but we did.
But they that was what made people want to pay.
You had to pay so much, right, It wasn't just
how many eyeballs, It was more about the kind of likechet.
So lucky for us because it did take a while.
Speaker 3 (38:07):
You don't, I mean, that's never gone away because it's
a show about you know, about the people in New
York City and the way they dress all of you,
and so that's a big.
Speaker 2 (38:20):
Part of the show. The press is a very big
part of the show.
Speaker 1 (38:23):
It is it is, and thank god they still write
about us.
Speaker 3 (38:26):
Yeah, oh god, yeah, as well they should. You mentioned
those big hats in that first season. I wonder if
they were as big as that hat that Sarah has
all nothing.
Speaker 1 (38:33):
Nothing is as big as that hat.
Speaker 3 (38:35):
Thing is god that I'm sure people are probably talking
about that.
Speaker 2 (38:38):
They go everywhere just a blanket. It's a great, It
was a great, it's beyond.
Speaker 1 (38:48):
She has the most incredible knack for dressing of any
individual I've ever seen. And obviously she does not dress
like Carrie, which I think is a big, big misconception,
but her sense of how and what and when and like,
it's like magic. Watching it. It's incredible.
Speaker 3 (39:07):
It's really, it's really amazing. I directed Sarah, Jessica and
Matthew in this Broadway revival of Plaza Suite.
Speaker 2 (39:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (39:15):
Yeah, And I'm just bringing up all of my career.
I love to do it, but I it was just
amazing watching them work together and how extraordinarily different they
are as performers and people, and what kind of chemistry
that produces. But I just wanted to bring it up
because the legendary costume designer Jane Greenwood did the clothes,
(39:35):
and she had done Sylvia with Sarah, many things with
her and Matthew, and the way I went to her
costume fittings and they're so great because she's got such
an unbelievable uncanny sense of lines and every cut of things,
and Jane, who knows so much more than Sarah, Like
(39:58):
it was a real collaboration. Yeah, and I'm sure, and
the way it was with Pat and this brilliant new person.
Speaker 1 (40:03):
Yet really Molly's not actually knew she's been here.
Speaker 3 (40:06):
Molly was the path and that's one of the reasons
why she's doing such a great, great job is because
she has a history.
Speaker 1 (40:13):
With Definitely, I mean trust her so much, but she's
so Molly's also really into the details, like the two
of them can just go down the rabbit hole of
like how something was woven or whatever.
Speaker 3 (40:22):
It's very Do you spend a lot of time in
wardrobe fittings before each season?
Speaker 1 (40:26):
Oh yeah, we all do. I mean there's there's a
lead up. Yeah, there's a lead up like prep. But
then also during the you know, it doesn't it's never
very big part of it. And I used to kind
of kick in screaming. Now I'm like, yeah, I love it, Yeah, yeah, exactly, surrender.
I love it. You were so spoiled.
Speaker 3 (40:43):
It's such a It's as you said earlier, like you know,
I would have I might have thought it could or
could not be a hit, But never in a million
years would I have imagined what did happen because it's
unprecedented exactly because it's never happened, there's.
Speaker 1 (40:57):
No model for us. And that's partly what I love
is well. And people can feel all different ways about
the first movie, the second movie, the new show, whatever,
I don't care, because to me, we are just creating
and creating and creating. And I know that we're creating
from such a sense of love and respect for each
other and the fact that we love to be together
(41:17):
and to make a show that people can relate to.
And you know, our eye has never been on like
the big success models or whatever. It has been on
just making a story that.
Speaker 3 (41:27):
We love absolutely and and that and that you did
it on this little wild, wild West furthest place in
the frontier HBO that then became HBO that we know today.
And and then whoever the smart people were who said, yeah,
let's sell this into syndication because one of the things
being my age being young ish when it all started,
(41:51):
Sarah's age, that that it would be generational, that incredible,
So like Wicked is doing that now, is a show
that young women went to see when they were twelve
years old twenty years ago, and now they're taking their
daughters to see it.
Speaker 1 (42:06):
Incredible.
Speaker 3 (42:06):
And this show, which was so blue as and where
we started, you know, was so r rated, has become
this thing that people have passed down to their children
and said, watch this. This is New York City, this
is friendship, right, this is yeah.
Speaker 1 (42:23):
Right, I know, it's it's incredible, It's really well. I
just want to say, I'm so happy that you're a
small but brilliant part of it.
Speaker 2 (42:30):
I was naked in the show, so let's not use
the word small.
Speaker 1 (42:34):
You were mighty fine behind mighty fine. But also, wouldn't
it be incredible if we could bring Catholic Guy back?
Oh my god, where's Kavla Guy?
Speaker 3 (42:44):
I really do every now and then I've said to
Michael Patrick, like not even about me, Like it would
be nice to see a couple more of the old timer's, but.
Speaker 1 (42:52):
Like what happened to them, because they're such vivid, vivid characters.
Speaker 3 (42:55):
Who was the brilliant I'm sorry, I wish I knew
his name because I'm such a big fan of his.
Speaker 2 (42:59):
The guy who played Scooter in the first season.
Speaker 1 (43:03):
Yeah, what is that guy's name? We never. I don't
know where he is. He's very good, Oh he was.
Speaker 3 (43:08):
He was very good, unique and odd, like a puppy.
Speaker 1 (43:13):
A little puppy. But that is just mean to him.
Speaker 2 (43:16):
Genius casting all through it. Ben Webber, web Ben Weber.
But you know when you mentioned Kyle, brilliant Kyle, because
you and Evan are so brilliant together. I almost feel
like you've been together forever.
Speaker 1 (43:29):
But no, Look, we've been together a long long time.
Speaker 2 (43:32):
Yeah, long time.
Speaker 1 (43:33):
But there was Kyle before him, absolutely incredibly vivid and
wonderful as well, just very very different, incredibly Yeah, I've
been so incredibly lucky before that. There was so many guys.
Charlotte had so many guys.
Speaker 3 (43:45):
Yeah, and you're not going to We're not going to
see Kyle show up at the end of the season.
Speaker 2 (43:50):
You'll never tell.
Speaker 1 (43:51):
I don't know. I don't know, but we we discussed
some things, but we you know, this is the thing.
Harry and Charlotte are the last couple of so I
don't know that we want to mess.
Speaker 2 (44:04):
They so know each other. That's what I love about
watching them.
Speaker 3 (44:07):
They they people who've been together at the You know,
you may may hate each other at times, you may
bore this out of each other. You know the other person,
warts and all. And that's what's great about the writing
for those two characters. They really they really look at
each other and they see each other.
Speaker 1 (44:23):
I agree, I agree, Hickey. I knew it would be incredible,
is it?
Speaker 2 (44:26):
Okay?
Speaker 1 (44:29):
This is the catching up with friends you delivered and
then so to honor a real.
Speaker 3 (44:34):
Thrill and an honor to be here, to have known
you and admired you for so many years now and
that it's still going on.
Speaker 1 (44:40):
I know, it's incredible. I'm so happy that you're with us.
Love to see you always. Let's get Catholic guy back.
Just hang out with us, doing my squats.
Speaker 2 (44:50):
I was doing my squats. The butt is still kind
of perfect.
Speaker 4 (44:55):
Okay, all right, thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (45:00):
The Constans Disco Basias
Hi, I'm Kristen Davis, and I want to know are
you a Charlotte? This is very exciting, you guys. We
are in the sidebar part of Are You a Charlotte,
which is catching up with friends, and here we have
the incredible John Benjaminicky.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (00:20):
Now we are a little bit past his episode. I've
been trying to get him on. Okay, he's a hot ticket,
you guys.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
I didn't realize.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
I was so busy. Yeah, we were much desired.
Speaker 3 (00:28):
Trying to figure out what I was doing that I
could be so unavailable.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
But here I am.
Speaker 1 (00:32):
That's okay. It was important stuff. You told me at
the premiere what you're doing, and I totally understand. Yes,
it's okay, it's okay, but you're here now and that's
all that matters. So John is in the first season,
which really surprised both of us.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
We thought it was like later on in the run.
Speaker 3 (00:47):
Absolutely, I would have probably said end of the second
maybe even the third third.
Speaker 1 (00:51):
Which I think of as our best season. If we
have to pick an overall season in.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
My episode for your episode, that's.
Speaker 1 (00:58):
Why I'm saying I would put it in the bed
because it's such a good episode and it was written
by Michael Patrick King, which you can completely tell. Oh god, yes,
John plays the Catholic Guy. He has a real name,
is called Thomas John Anderson, which is kind of funny
because John Benja three and he's playing Michael Patrick King
basically and his own episode, and he is called the
(01:19):
Catholic Guy. That's what we call him in the shorthand
to the friends. And he's opposite Cynthia and they are incredible.
This episode was directed by Matthew Harrison. We don't have
a ton of memories about him. We're really sorry, I
who it's apologized.
Speaker 3 (01:31):
If I never remember the direct vivid memories of MPK
not directing me, but just he's such a brilliant, extraordinary
presence on set and his writing was so great that
I remember him and of course have known him all
these years after. But yeah, I don't remember the directors.
I know, but that's not because he didn't direct a
great episode.
Speaker 1 (01:49):
Absolutely, because that's an episode.
Speaker 2 (01:50):
Good director disappears a little bit.
Speaker 1 (01:52):
This is a good point. And you also direct, so
you know very well. You know very well, so tell
us your memories and your thoughts about the new It
was relatively new show.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
Yeah, how is this a G rated program?
Speaker 3 (02:03):
Okay, great, Well, what I vividly remember is being on
top of Cynthia, having being in the throes of passion
and having orgasm after or fake orgasm after orgasm, and
getting up and sharing. And you know a lot of
people have seen it in syndication and all that stuff's out,
but in the I guess the DVD or box set
(02:25):
or whatever you call it these days, you.
Speaker 2 (02:27):
See all of those sex scenes.
Speaker 3 (02:29):
So what I remember most vividly is being in bed
in flagrante with Cynthia Nixon. Thank goodness, I had known her.
We'd done a play together, which is the way you
get very intimate, very quickly, is by being on stage together.
And we had such a great time doing this play
and such a great rapport and such great trust that
(02:51):
we immediately threw ourselves into it. And you know, this
was before Sex and the City was Sex and the City,
So going to that set and having to do such
a huge.
Speaker 2 (03:02):
Sex scene was really nerve racking.
Speaker 3 (03:06):
Nerve racking, So that's my biggest memory is just being
on top of Cynthia, and you know, and then the
casual after an hour or two, it becomes so casual, like,
what are you gonna have for lunch? I think I'm
gonna have that, you know, totally both yeah, naked, and
I mean we all had We've talked about cook socks
and all that stuff. Yeah, right, right right, and I
(03:28):
guess I remember the cok sock as well.
Speaker 1 (03:30):
There you go. Very memorable. I mean the thing about
Cynthia too, which is a theme in every guy that
I've ever spoken to who was opposite hers, that she
has no real fear or self consciousness about it.
Speaker 3 (03:42):
Yeah, no she doesn't. But listen, this is the all
of your reputations precede you when actors go on your show.
And this was true twenty how many years ago, twenty.
Speaker 4 (03:53):
Five years, twenty seven or six, unbelievable, And now you
get a job on that show and you're decided to
go there because of the way you guys treat people.
Speaker 3 (04:03):
It's guesting on a show, even if you're in the
first season or now, is being is like being forced
to go to somebody else's office Christmas party. You know,
there might be a little bit of a feeling of
nobody really understands why you're there, but you're there, and
so it's very important for the top of the call sheet.
(04:24):
To treat people, you know, this very very well. To
make people feel comfortable one of the biggest parts of
the job. And this was a show that did that
even then. And you know, Cynthia was amazing that way,
because she's so free, such a great actress, and so
unintimidated and unintimidating.
Speaker 1 (04:46):
Absolutely. I mean it's funny because she sometimes I would
be so worried if she had one of these scenes
because I was like, she's not going to take care
of herself, and you know, not with you, because you're
a season pro. But like sometimes people just grab an
all crazy way and no one would say like stop,
and I think, like I should go, I should go,
and she'd be like delicate, delicate, you know, But she
(05:07):
didn't care. And that's so freeing when you're watching her.
Speaker 3 (05:09):
Yeah, yeah, really, she's really she's really fearless. We went
on to do another series together called The Big c
and had so many sex scenes. Like I think maybe
as many sex scenes as Cynthia has played over the years,
I might be at the top of the list of
the just the quantity.
Speaker 2 (05:28):
I love it, and I hope the quality. But you
did a lot.
Speaker 3 (05:32):
Together, and oh my god, by the end of our
run on the Big Sea together, we were.
Speaker 1 (05:36):
Like amazing, like an old Mary com I know, really
love that because you're so perfectly matched. You know, you
are so complex as an actor, which I think you
often like are more into your directing now and whatever.
But to me, whenever I watch you on film, you're
so complicated, and she also has so many layers, and
she kind of does it so effortlessly. Wish you as well,
because you've been doing it so long. It's very interesting
(05:58):
to watch. I could see why they would cast you
again opposite each other. It makes perfect sense. So way back,
take yourself way back. Do you remember, like, what were
you doing? You've done this play with Cynthia. You were
on Broadway, you were doing yep.
Speaker 3 (06:10):
I want to say I done a play a playwrights
rising It's called on the Bum with Cynthia, which is
one of the great experiences of both of our lives.
Speaker 2 (06:17):
I think she would say the same.
Speaker 3 (06:18):
It's just an amazing group of actors, a very large
cast and all of off Broadway's finest Campbell, Scott and yeah,
just incredible people. And Cynthia and I really had a
great bond. I do remember that her mother sent me
a note. Cynthia was very and if her mom liked
an actor she was playing opposite.
Speaker 2 (06:37):
You really rose in the ranks. You rose in her eyes.
I'm still very proud of that.
Speaker 3 (06:43):
Yeah, and so I feel like I knew going in
that that I was going to be well taken care of.
Speaker 2 (06:56):
I don't remember. I don't think I auditioned for the part.
Speaker 3 (07:01):
I think I was offered the part, which so perfect, Yeah,
which was very rare back then.
Speaker 2 (07:04):
I auditioned for everything happily.
Speaker 3 (07:06):
Would audition again if it was a role like what's
his name, Paul Thomas Anderson.
Speaker 1 (07:11):
That's a director, Thomas J and N Anderson.
Speaker 2 (07:16):
But I don't remember auditioning for it.
Speaker 1 (07:18):
But would that have been Sir Jessica's relationship with you?
Speaker 3 (07:22):
Maybe, yes, we were. We were close back then, but
we got really close. Maybe in seasons three, four and
five we were. We got closer as friends then in
the beginning, I don't think we were quite that close.
We knew each other, but not that well. To be
completely honest, I don't know. I don't know.
Speaker 1 (07:42):
I think it was because you were so perfect for
that part.
Speaker 3 (07:45):
I guess uh, and and you know, but there's a
there's a fear in that because if you haven't auditioned,
you're going in and you're thinking, I hope they I
think they've made the right decision, and I hope I
don't show up and they're like, oh, that's not what
we wanted, because if you have auditioned, then they've seen
what you're what you're bringing. So I went in cold,
(08:09):
and when you're having to do nude scenes, you want
to be very warm. You want to be warm warmed
up pretty quickly. And I think it was one day.
Maybe you're kidding, Yeah, maybe, Oh my god.
Speaker 1 (08:21):
You're so tremendous. It's crazy to think you would have
done that in one day because you're so mad. You
get so angry when she tries to tell you not
to shower.
Speaker 2 (08:30):
I'm on the rain, complete Catholic meltdown. Oh excuse me.
Speaker 3 (08:35):
I'm so sorry that you think I'm not going to
go to hell for having sex.
Speaker 1 (08:39):
Yeah, yeah, that fixes it. You're like, that fixes it
right away. It's so good.
Speaker 3 (08:44):
And I vividly remember MPK and the wonderful director saying
go further, because you know, I was a theater actor
and I was like, oh boy, that was probably really
over the top, and Michael's like, no, get madd go further,
really lose your on her and loving it and having
a ball. And at that point we had simulated sex
(09:06):
and orgasm so many times together that we could do anything.
Speaker 1 (09:12):
Absolutely, absolutely, so for me, when I think back on
the first season, this is what's been so interesting to
rewatch it. First of all, I thought the first season
that we weren't together. When I watch it back, I'm like,
all the pieces are there. We might not have been
completely structurally together the writing, but like the acting and
everything is so great, so much better. Yeah, that I remember,
But we definitely did the whole first season without anything airing, right,
(09:35):
which is kind of wonderful in a way because you're
just being creative without any outside input, but also scary,
kind of like not auditioning for a part because you
have no idea how people are going to respond, absolutely,
and I remember having a lot of anxiety about that
and talking to each other like a people going to
freak out, which some people did right, And then it
went well and it got bigger and bigger. Like third
(09:57):
season is when I consider us to have gotten kind
of popular. That's what I felt at least, But do
you remember, like what was your feeling being on the
show and then having people see it.
Speaker 3 (10:06):
As you describe the only way I can really articulate
it is very niche Like my family in Texas didn't
have HBO, so and I was probably relieved because there
was so much sex going on that that I probably
had some relief in that. But I remember it being
(10:27):
very blue, you know, blue as in a little more
than R rated for the time, especially now it's like,
you know, but it felt way out in Queen's Yes,
and I mean that in the metaphoric sense as well.
Speaker 2 (10:44):
It seemed like to be way over there. HBO was
so the wild wild West. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (10:52):
And I it's interesting because I'm good pals with Darren
Star because my partner Jeffrey Richmond and he created this
beautiful show called Uncoupled Together, and I've spent time with
Darren through the years. But he talks about that first
season and he's very articulate about like none of us
knew really what we had or what you guys had
(11:14):
worked together before, of course, and he and Sarah had
never worked together. And then Michael coming in and doing
such an amazing job kind of helping the show explode,
and Darren gives him such a major props for that.
Yeah so, but everybody to a person never really talked
to MPK about it or like, wow, I wonder if this.
Speaker 2 (11:35):
Is ever going to.
Speaker 3 (11:38):
Catch more than just a specific population's imagination, because it
was really out there. So that's that's basically my memory exact.
It wasn't TV, baby, it was HBO, and TV was
a completely different thing, and now, of course everything is
(11:58):
kind of melded together, and Sex and the City was
the pioneer of that.
Speaker 1 (12:04):
Thank you. That's so nice, really is so tell me
you when I saw you at the premiere, which was
so nice to see there at our crazy, crazy party
that they threw for us.
Speaker 2 (12:12):
It's insane. I've never seen more people in my life.
Speaker 3 (12:14):
And let me just say too that, like I live
right down the street from where the party was, so
we threw on a pair of jeans, like let's just
go say hi. I mean because Sex and the City
and just like that have been such a part of
my life, our lives of Yeah, yeah, so long, I
don't think of it as a big deal. This party
was so fucking packed and so packed with young people.
(12:36):
I know, young young people who were just so happy
to be there were so maybe it did my heart
so good. It is so means so much to so
many people, not just us old folks.
Speaker 1 (12:47):
Absolutely absolutely, And also we didn't this was the first
time that they had thrown this type of an event,
fir Us. We used to it in the olden days,
which I'm sure you came yea of those huge parties
with the pr and that bed in front of like
Lincoln Zentner. Do you remember this, like insane level parties.
But this was not a premiere exactly, so we didn't
exactly know how to dress. We didn't really know what
(13:08):
we were doing, and we didn't really know who they
invent invited. And they kept talking about activations which were
still just like what you tell me, you're not knowing
it has to do with social media, and I don't
totally understand it, but in that party was a Hot
Fella's activation, and that's why those guys were their dresses
hot fellas. And I believe that, yes, Mario's Bakery and
(13:31):
just like that, and maybe there was bread there. I
don't know. I never saw any bread, but maybe there
was bread. I'm not sure. I'm not sure, but that
was an activation and then there was maybe another activation.
I don't know, but like there were just a lot
of people there, and I mean very cool people were
there who later texted me on Instagram that they'd been
there because I couldn't find anybody. We were in that
corner and we were like trapped in that corner.
Speaker 2 (13:52):
I mean, if you wanted to bread a hot cross
bun for one of those about twenty five.
Speaker 1 (14:00):
But it was so nice to see amazing, It was amazing.
Speaker 3 (14:03):
Also you bring up, you know, the bakery, and you
have such chemistry with such people who have.
Speaker 2 (14:10):
Been in my life.
Speaker 3 (14:11):
Mario and Evan, I mean have known Evan since, you know,
he made this massive uh took New York by storm
with his show Time under Fire, which was about his
sickness and yes, and he was just always been one
of my favorite actors and favorite people. And Canton, of
course I've known Mario Cantone replaced Nathan Lane in Love
Valor Compassion, which is the first Broadway play I did, Wow,
(14:33):
and he and I were instant best buddies, and it
remains one of my favorite people on the planet. And
how hard it must be to go to work with
Mario every day because he's not funny.
Speaker 2 (14:45):
He doesn't know how to do.
Speaker 1 (14:46):
It's so painful, Paul. I mean, the one challenge is
that Michael loves to give him like a lot of props,
and that's not really Mario's I was like, please let
me sing. I just want to say, I don't really
want to do you a microphone exactly, give you a microphone,
not a loaf of bread. But he's he's growing and expanding,
you know, every season.
Speaker 3 (15:04):
Credit because he's not I mean, he's a great actor,
but it was he hasn't done a lot of tell it.
Speaker 1 (15:09):
It wasn't his thing when we hired him. He was
and he was only supposed to do a few episodes,
as he told us when he came on the podcast,
which is also what I love. And it's amazing because
as much as I know you, I don't even know
all your connections. I just know that you're part of
the family.
Speaker 3 (15:21):
Well that yeah, when you're on a show in New York,
and when it's an as iconic a show as this
New York show as this is, and there are very
few who that are.
Speaker 2 (15:31):
You really do attract.
Speaker 3 (15:33):
That's one of the great things about shooting in New
York City, man, is you get Fanny Sternhagen, Mary and
Selda's you know, you get you get the greatest character
actors in New York.
Speaker 1 (15:52):
So when John Benjaminski who plays Thomas, John Anderson many
so many names in Oh Come All, Ye Faithful, Well
that's the episode just to refresher, but it was maybe
like three four episodes. We recapped it ago and is
the one where Carrie and Miranda go to a church
because Carrie wants to see Big and his mother because
(16:13):
she wants to hang out with him on Sunday. And
he says, no, I go to church every Sunday with
my mother, which She's just like what, And so she
wants to go. So they wear these huge hats because
they're going to hide up in the balcony of a
beautiful big church. I should know which one it is.
And then he comes out and she's across the street
and her joggers looking so cool with her cigarette, and
(16:34):
his mom is played by this incredible woman, incredible actress
and teacher named Mary and Sildas who was Hiickey's teacher
at Juli are.
Speaker 3 (16:41):
Yes As she was so many many, Kevin Klein, Patti Lapone,
from group one to I was Group eighteen to probably
group thirty five. Marian there ushering us into our careers
and our lives as actors. And there was no greater teacher,
no greater actor, no greater person of the theater in
the history of the twentieth century than Mary.
Speaker 1 (17:03):
Yes, her presence, I mean she doesn't have a lot
to do in our episode, but just her presence standing
there is so powerful.
Speaker 2 (17:09):
Absolutely, absolutely, it was real cool.
Speaker 3 (17:12):
And you were saying earlier she was so perfect as
BIG's mom because she's kind of a big person herself.
Speaker 1 (17:18):
Big presence, Yeah, intimidating and kind of aloof to where
you can't read her. It makes such perfect sense for
his character that he has a mom like that that
he kind of caters to. You know, it's super interesting.
Speaker 3 (17:29):
I did a production of The Crucible on Broadway and
with his credit it was Yeah, Laurea Lenny Liams an amazing,
amazing production and Brian the great actor Brian Murray was
in it. Who is Marian's best friend. And Marian came
to see the show and I said, oh God, I
hope Marian likes it. And he said, well, if she doesn't,
you're never going to know. I was like, what a
great thing, because she's such a gracious, warm human being.
(17:52):
She gives great backstage. You know, she's not there to
tear anybody down. She's Yeah, she's the greatest, the greatest.
Speaker 1 (17:59):
So you also said when I saw you at the party,
and I was I just looked at you. I didn't
even say anything, I don't think, and You're like, I'm
coming on the podcast. I was like, thank god, because
I've just been waiting. I'd just been waiting ran you'd come.
And you said, I have so many memories of Cynthia
Michael and I think you said Sarah too, So even
though you weren't super close, do you remember those early days,
because she remembers.
Speaker 3 (18:20):
Yeah, I just remember how lucky I felt. She had
done a play at Lincoln Center, and she, even though
she doesn't remember anything, she remembers meeting me, which is
a terribly flattering more than I do. She met me
on the stairs of Lincoln Center, and I think it
was what was what year?
Speaker 1 (18:41):
Was the first season we filmed? In ninety seven. I
didn't come on til ninety eight.
Speaker 3 (18:46):
Yeah, yeah, wow, Yeah, So we were really good pals
by then. I think I remember being very glad that
my stuff was with Cynthia because I had become the
kind of friend with Sarah at that point that that
I would have been.
Speaker 2 (19:06):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (19:06):
I think I would have been more intimidated by taking
my clothes off in front.
Speaker 2 (19:10):
I mean, that would be weird, and she would too.
Speaker 3 (19:12):
I mean she has we both know, and I'm sure
you've said many times she's an incredibly shy, discreet person
that she is not Carrie Bradshaw, which is a testament
to her just brilliant acting.
Speaker 1 (19:25):
Chops absolutely and in my mind just sidebar because you
know her so well. I believe that that's one of
the things that makes Carrie so interesting. Yeah, is Sarah's
own differences from the character and that kind of internal
conflict that that comes, and also that kind of friction
playing a character so long. Also, she just makes her
so deep.
Speaker 2 (19:44):
Yeah, so deep, so so deep. She's very all of you.
Speaker 3 (19:48):
It's like time has been so kind to those characters,
and you guys have too, Like you're it's like every
it's like you see it in your shoulders. Everybody is
just so relaxed, even when they're playing the most fraught
moments on the show. There's such a relaxation watching and
the newcomers as well, Oh, I know are just it's
such a lovely family now.
Speaker 2 (20:09):
It's really really great to say.
Speaker 3 (20:11):
But going back, I remember being glad it was Cynthia,
not because I didn't want to work with you or
with Sarah.
Speaker 2 (20:18):
I didn't know.
Speaker 3 (20:18):
You, and I knew Sarah in a way that would
have been like, oh man, I don't want to have
to pretend to bang her.
Speaker 1 (20:25):
I know that would be very weird. You know. I
had to kiss Matthew in a movie wow after the
show ended. So I had known him for many years
and I kept saying, this is so weird, and he
was like, no, it isn't. I was like, all right, Matthew,
not weird at all. Okay, I didn't have to have sex,
thank god, because I don't know how I would have
gone through it.
Speaker 3 (20:43):
Yeah, that would be weird to kiss Matthew. Yeah, but
Matthew's got that thing. Like a couple of times I've
seen Matthew nervous because I have directed him.
Speaker 2 (20:54):
It's weird to see Matthews.
Speaker 3 (20:56):
Matthew has lovely blood pressure maintenance, like he knows how
to in his work be very still and very calm.
Speaker 1 (21:05):
That's true and scary.
Speaker 2 (21:07):
Yeah, it's scary. It can intimidate the other person. Yes,
that's yeah.
Speaker 3 (21:11):
I'm like trying to juggle kittens meeting and Matthew's like,
why don't you just sit here and we'll do the scene.
Speaker 2 (21:17):
It's like that totally Okay.
Speaker 1 (21:19):
We got off on a Matthew tangent, which is rare
because almost no one has Matthew's story.
Speaker 3 (21:23):
Oh my goodness, I have to you should get Matthew
on this podcast.
Speaker 1 (21:28):
I don't think he'll do it. I mean every time
I see him, I'm just like and he's like, oh God,
there she comes.
Speaker 2 (21:34):
You'll get it, You'll get it.
Speaker 1 (21:35):
Maybe that would be awesome because I love to hear
the memories of the beginning. And that's part of the
reason I wanted to do the podcast is because everyone
was in such different places, coming from such different worlds.
I mean, even Cynthia and Sarah who had worked together,
known each other their whole lives almost still very different experiences,
and then we all came together in this kind of
crazy thing that just formed a.
Speaker 3 (21:54):
New and yeah, and everybody has what do they call it?
You know a sprie descalier, which is the French expression
for spirit of the staircase, the thing you like if
you and I are in a big fight and on
my way home, what I should have said to her was,
you know you remember the thing? So you have this
(22:15):
odd twenty twenty hindsight with the show, like you always
thought or somehow knew that it could be what it
has become.
Speaker 2 (22:24):
And no, not at all. Yeah, never in a million years.
Speaker 1 (22:28):
You know who could have jumped?
Speaker 3 (22:29):
Okay, I know this is you interviewed, but now you
signed on. Were you like gung ho?
Speaker 2 (22:36):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (22:37):
Oh I'm the most gung home. Yeah, I'm the most
gung host still to this day.
Speaker 2 (22:41):
Well that's fantastic.
Speaker 1 (22:43):
But in the beginning, because I was in La right,
but I had been an out of work actor here
right after I went to records right with Bill Asper
and everybody.
Speaker 2 (22:51):
So yeah, brilliant, brilliant Bills, I know.
Speaker 1 (22:53):
Incredible, And I moved here like everybody did, and we
were poor and you know, you waitress and you auditioned
and whatnot, which is hard to be poor here, absolutely right.
And then I went out to Berkeley. I did a
play and it was pilot season my agent said, come
down to LA on Mondays because there's so many parts
you could play, because I was still playing pretty young
at that point, and I was young, and I was
(23:14):
playing even younger.
Speaker 2 (23:14):
Do you play you were doing?
Speaker 1 (23:16):
I was doing Oh my god, Oh my god, my god,
I'm not.
Speaker 2 (23:18):
Going to Berkeley Rep. Yes, that's where I was when
I couldn't do your podcast.
Speaker 3 (23:22):
I was doing the production of Uncle Vanya with Hugh
Bonneville at Berkeley brilliant Speed of Light.
Speaker 2 (23:30):
Oh yeah, I feel like I don't.
Speaker 3 (23:31):
I feel like I know that play and if you
gave me more time, I would know who wrote it
right now.
Speaker 1 (23:36):
It's a it's a great playwright who I think went
to records. Yeah, yeah, my god, we have to look
this up. Anyway, I was there, which was incredible. It's
a special, special place. I love Berkeley Rep much. It
was great. It was great. But I went down to La.
It was sunny. I auditioned for sitcoms. I was like, m,
this seems an easier life than then the New York
(23:56):
City as a poor person, right, it's more work than
and now it's totally floating, which is so sad, But
what can you do? So I went I ended up
moving to la and then eventually a few years later,
I mean I don't remember how many, but a lot
of auditions later got Melrose. Then Darren sent me the
script and I was like New York City, like walking
the streets. Four lead characters that are women, unheard of
(24:21):
HBO confused that had the boxing.
Speaker 3 (24:24):
But hey, yeah, not no other show pre Sopranos. You
were it, right, So yeah, I've been a couple of
those dream.
Speaker 1 (24:31):
On and also Larry Sanders, yes, which was obviously, but
that's what I thought. We would be a small cult
like very industry you know, loved show and which has
lived on of course because it's so great, right, it's.
Speaker 3 (24:43):
Weirdly, it's still that what you just described. It's also
just a global phenomenon as well.
Speaker 1 (24:48):
Yeah, exactly, which is a weird. Like it's a very
weird and wonderful thing that happened. But in my gut
I felt the potential. I never could have dreamt two
movies and another there is no precedent to that, so
that wouldn't have come. But to me, I felt, yes,
it's very special and I will do whatever I have
(25:09):
to do to be on that show. Yeah, those women
and then once they told me Sarah because when they
Darren first sent it to me to read for Carrie,
and I could the way she was on the page
was much more like Candace is, you know, persona, and
I couldn't pull that off, smoking and swearing and you
know the girl. I was like that people are going
to laugh at me, right, So I was like, Darren,
please don't make me audition for that. I need to
(25:30):
beat this other one who was kind of in the
side over here that's me. And you know, thank god,
he listens and you.
Speaker 3 (25:36):
Really recognize, like, oh, I've got a think I relate
to this part. That's incredible because it's like all of
you were born to play those.
Speaker 2 (25:44):
Parts, you know.
Speaker 3 (25:45):
I know, we're so lucky that we found I do
remember in the early days of casting. I remember so
so so Sarah and I certainly were hanging out enough
to where she would talk to me about people that
she was interested in for I think was probably Symanthic,
because I think Cynthia was in early on.
Speaker 1 (26:03):
I mean, Cynthia wasn't, but she didn't feel she was in,
like they kept her dangling, do you.
Speaker 2 (26:09):
Know what I mean?
Speaker 1 (26:09):
And then I remember at one point they were talking
about hiring like a stand up comic or whatever from Miranda,
like they didn't know what to do, you know.
Speaker 3 (26:17):
Yeah, And now that I'm really thinking about it, your
brilliant casting director Jennifer Macnami.
Speaker 1 (26:24):
Yes, but I don't think we had her for the pilot.
I think we had Kerry Barton.
Speaker 2 (26:27):
Kerry Barton, Kerry carry.
Speaker 1 (26:29):
Jennifer when the show started, it was so great.
Speaker 3 (26:31):
And Jennifer's assistant, I think on that first season was
my old college friend, Camille Hickman is her name, And
Camille now works at Lincoln Center and she's one of
the great casting directors in New York. And she and
I had been best buddies at Fordham University, where I
had gone some ten years before Sex in the City,
and she would talk to me about this show is
(26:51):
so exciting and it's so weird and odd.
Speaker 2 (26:54):
I don't know if anybody's going to see it.
Speaker 3 (26:55):
And I also remember very vividly Camille had a small
part as one of the talking yes because did you do.
Speaker 2 (27:01):
Talking heads through the whole first season?
Speaker 1 (27:03):
Yes, And I mean we just Sarah Jessica just looks
at the camera. In the last episode I watched which
is in the second season, and you know she hated it.
Oh yeah, she hated it so much. But she looks
at the camera and then she makes a face which
I think was about having to talk to the camera.
Speaker 3 (27:18):
Of course, do you have you I'm sure you've probably
talked about it on the show. When was that decision made,
like we don't need.
Speaker 2 (27:24):
To do this.
Speaker 1 (27:25):
I feel like it was an ongoing thing. Michael Patrick hated.
Oh he did the talking to the camera. Melfie hated
the people on the.
Speaker 3 (27:33):
Street sidebar John Melfie who went to Ford him with
me and Camille. So I knew Melfie some ten twelve years.
Malfie and I'd known each other forty something years.
Speaker 1 (27:41):
I don't even know this incredible Malfie is the unsung
hero of our whole entire world. I told him in
Paris that he's got to come on the podcast. He
looked a little scared, because I think he likes his
secrets to remain on camera.
Speaker 3 (27:52):
Nobody knows more stories and knows where more bodies are buried.
Speaker 2 (27:56):
John Melphie.
Speaker 1 (27:57):
I know that's why I got to get him in
that chair. You better believe, right, I know I got
to loosen him up and get him in the chair.
But he would tell everything about everything, which would be great.
But he when he came he said his secret mission
was to get rid of the talking heads, and Sarah
Jessica's very open mission was to get rid of talking
to the camera, because I remember in the pilot her saying,
(28:20):
you know, do I have to talk to the camera.
It's so strange to break the fourth wall. I'm in
this scene. She's not wrong, I mean, it's a very
weird thing as an actor to do. And then what
she told me when she came on was that also
she had been worried about Ferris Bueller, which I had
never thought of. Oh wow, yeah, here of course is
this like you know, her husband's you know, humane iconic
(28:40):
film that he's done where he so brilliantly talks to
the camera pretty much the whole time exactly. She felt
like she was never going to live up to that,
which is so adorable, which I don't interesting. Yeah, but
she when I was sitting there, what I remember is
thinking that I had never seen an actress be able
to speak so clearly about what they wanted to do
(29:00):
and what they didn't want to do without being angry
or historyonic or whatever, just like very clearly articulating why
it was hard for her, why she felt like she
wasn't doing it well, how she felt like it was
better to stay with us in the scene. And I
was like, yes, yes, I agree with her, not that
anyone cares what I think over her, but I was like, yeah, yeah,
that's well put, that's well put. But it took her.
(29:21):
I mean, she's still doing it in season seven, second
second season, which I didn't even realize.
Speaker 3 (29:26):
That's amazing. I did not know it went on that long.
And frankly, I don't remember her doing it. I remember
more of the side people yeah doing it than which
is kind.
Speaker 1 (29:35):
Of interesting, and I think trying to be almost like
an anthology or like, you know, relating to the fact
that all kind of people are having all kinds of
relationship things that you don't know about, right like the
people on the street, This one's going to tell you
something surprising. That one's going to tell you something surprising.
I get the idea of, but it was taking story
time away from the bigger stories here.
Speaker 2 (29:54):
Well, you have twenty five minutes to pack four stories.
Speaker 1 (29:57):
In, right, Yeah, which is hard.
Speaker 3 (29:59):
Yeah, speaking of my partner, Jeff. He's a comedy writer,
wrote Modern Family for all eleven years, and he's like,
the hardest thing that there's eleven characters on that show
and they have twenty two minutes. And that makes me
think about writers like Michael Patrick and all the great writers.
Jenny Bicks ran The Big Sea, so many great writers
who have come into your world, and how difficult it
(30:22):
is to pull that off for four and now, however,
many you have extraordinary characters, and everybody's got to have
a story, and everybody needs their time.
Speaker 1 (30:32):
It's true, And I mean, I don't want to spend
much on this, but sometimes when you see people's criticism,
you're like, oh, do they know how hard it is?
Speaker 2 (30:39):
Yeah? Yeah, you know they don't. Yeah, no they don't.
Speaker 3 (30:42):
And you know, I think back to that first season
because I think we were recently overseas and sometimes you know,
a show will be on like an older versions of shows,
And I watched a few episodes and this was long
before you and I talked about doing this. But what
I remember when I was watching, it's like, Wow, not
only was it good, it got more sophisticated, it got
(31:06):
more maybe clever. It was always super smart. But before
it had flash, it had such warmth. It had such
warm I mean, it's the reason why it goes on.
It's because it's a love story. Yeah, love story, and
and and it had a confidence about that love from
(31:28):
the very get go. Even though the show evolved, I mean,
you know in that in the same way any great
writing would evolve. But it even though it took a
while to figure out we don't need the talking heads,
we don't it knew you guys, knew who you were.
Speaker 1 (31:45):
It's true. That's what I'm so surprised about when I
watched the first season.
Speaker 2 (31:48):
Were you was it were some? Was it was? It was? It?
Speaker 3 (31:54):
Was it first season nerve wracking? Or were you more
nervous when it became so successful? Because some times, you know,
it's scarier when there's a lot of responsibility, like yuah, oh,
where we're let's not blow this right, you know right?
Speaker 1 (32:10):
I think for me, because there's a whole long story
I'm not going to bore you with because all of
our listeners have heard it in my first episode of
the podcast, when I so I signed in my mind,
Sara Jessica did not sign a big deal, a big
pilot deal, which I didn't know about, And it's good
that I didn't about because I would have been super
nervous that she wasn't sewed up for like seven years, right,
But I did sign one. But then during the pilot,
(32:31):
which we were over budget. It was two point five
million dollars, which back then was a lot of money
for the pilot exactly. They were trying to cut costs,
and they tried to get me to sign a new
contract that would revoke my previous contract and make me
a series recurring for five thousand dollars an episode. Oh
my god, I know.
Speaker 2 (32:50):
Thank you. Heny tried to do this during all your ship.
Well that that's awful, I know, thank you. Yeah, what
it suggests is that you don't have the cough like that.
Speaker 1 (32:58):
I'm not. You're not seeing I'm.
Speaker 2 (33:00):
Trying to cut corners. You're like, wait a minute, Yeah,
I know.
Speaker 1 (33:04):
So I knew this, Brandon, tell you, I'm executives. I know,
and no one will take responsibility.
Speaker 2 (33:11):
Somebody knew.
Speaker 1 (33:12):
Somebody knew. I think those people aren't with us anymore. Yeah, whatever.
So I haven't gotten to the absolute bottom of it,
but I have. It's been very therapeutic. For me to
talk about it, because I'd never realize that. I never
told Sarah, I never told Cynthia. I never talked about
it except to my team. Because what I did was
this line producer knocked on my door, just hand me
this paper and said you need to sign this. And
(33:32):
I was like, oh, what's this and I read. I
was like, oh my god. And I called my lawyer,
who's still my lawyer all these many years later, and
he said, don't sign the paper. Take it home and
tell them that you forgot.
Speaker 2 (33:44):
Brilliant loves this lawyer every day.
Speaker 1 (33:46):
I know Jason Sloan incredible daughter Charlotte.
Speaker 4 (33:52):
For that.
Speaker 1 (33:52):
So he says, it's not going to me, but whatever,
I still love it. So every day they would knock
and every day I'd be like, oh, I'm sorry, I forgot.
You know, I'm a good girl, like so like it
took a lot from me. That's how badly I wanted
to stay on that show as a series regular.
Speaker 3 (34:09):
I have to say, it's not an un Charlotte storyline.
I know, Yeah, that's like, that's the story Michael. I
would write for her totally. It's so like her and
she'd be crafty. But it would seem like it was
under the guise of like, oh mind, yeah.
Speaker 1 (34:24):
Right, I can do that. I can actually do that
in life. It's kind of amazing what happened to me.
And what I saw when I looked back at the
first season was that inside I had the anxiety of
not being good. Oh of course, I mean yeah, And
it did work with Charlotte in a lot of ways.
And also Michael told me when he came on, he thought, oh,
I don't know how to write for that character. So
(34:44):
I was the one who wanted to get married, right,
and so it took him a while to understand me
enough and the character enough. And then Jenny came and
she knew how to write me, which is great because
she kept on the breast side. It was perfect, brilliant.
So the piece has come and you can see that
in my performance. You can see it in the writing
for sure. But so like when I look at myself,
there's some some episodes where I'm like, I am really
(35:04):
literally just trying to walk properly with them.
Speaker 2 (35:08):
You know, wow, yeah, nobody else does.
Speaker 1 (35:12):
I'm just trying to walk in those heels, in those
outfits back in.
Speaker 3 (35:17):
Fall Down and look like I belong here back in
La But you know, I've talked to and I'm sure
Sarah Jessica would would would has probably talked about this
with you on this podcast. But like every season you
guys start every movie, I will talk to her in
the first four days and She'll be like, I don't
know what I'm doing, I can't I feel so, I
(35:38):
don't know how to do this, and I'm not good
at this.
Speaker 2 (35:40):
And like you, that never goes away. True, no matter
how iconic you guys are, It's true.
Speaker 3 (35:48):
You never lose that, and you should We shouldn't of course.
It's the thing that keeps us alive to act too, Like.
Speaker 1 (35:55):
Why else would you want to do such a crazy
thing if it didn't bring all the feelings and.
Speaker 2 (35:58):
Challenge us totally?
Speaker 1 (36:00):
That's what we love.
Speaker 2 (36:01):
Yeah, and there's real no.
Speaker 3 (36:04):
Sense of security that's born out of this kind of success.
In fact, sometimes the very opposite as we talked about,
can happen.
Speaker 2 (36:10):
It can make you a little more kind of.
Speaker 1 (36:12):
That's true for me because I started out at the
crazy place of like are they going to keep me
or not? It did just get better.
Speaker 2 (36:19):
And you did that first season and then where you
sort of.
Speaker 1 (36:23):
Like you had to wait and see if they were
going to fire me.
Speaker 3 (36:26):
I'm sorry I lost that. I probably interrupted you. You
really even when that first season was over how many
episodes thirteen? Yeah, you were like, didn't know, maybe I'll
come back, maybe I won't exactly, Holy.
Speaker 1 (36:37):
Crap, I know. And I didn't tell any of them,
which is crazy to me that I didn't tell them,
do you know what I mean? But I think that
if I thought that, if they knew, they'd be like, oh, yeah,
maybe you're not going to have which of course they
wouldn't have, but like I just didn't have the security
in it all yet.
Speaker 2 (36:51):
Yeah, yeah, totally.
Speaker 1 (36:52):
So I was just on this like h exactly, didn't.
Speaker 2 (36:55):
Know if it was coming back much less you know,
it wasn't.
Speaker 1 (36:58):
No, we didn't know anything. I didn't know any thing, right,
So it was all good And then they were then
they were like, yes, yes, we do need it.
Speaker 2 (37:03):
I was like, thank you God, thank you. Was it
a rating success its first season?
Speaker 1 (37:18):
You know what? No one ever spoke about the rating?
Speaker 3 (37:21):
Yeah, those metrics are still to this day.
Speaker 1 (37:25):
I know, right, But I mean for me, I'd come
from network where like Monday morning you went in and
everyone was like, oh five point eight to ten point whatever.
No one cared. I'd be like, does anyone know if
anyone's watching it? They didn't care. You know what they
cared about. They cared about press. They wanted press hits.
Like we worked hard in the beginning. We talked to
anyone and everyone who would talk to us, because it
(37:45):
was the traditional press back then. Right, they didn't have
all the things we have now. And they cared about awards,
which took us a while to get there, but we did.
But they that was what made people want to pay.
You had to pay so much, right, It wasn't just
how many eyeballs, It was more about the kind of likechet.
So lucky for us because it did take a while.
Speaker 3 (38:07):
You don't, I mean, that's never gone away because it's
a show about you know, about the people in New
York City and the way they dress all of you,
and so that's a big.
Speaker 2 (38:20):
Part of the show. The press is a very big
part of the show.
Speaker 1 (38:23):
It is it is, and thank god they still write
about us.
Speaker 3 (38:26):
Yeah, oh god, yeah, as well they should. You mentioned
those big hats in that first season. I wonder if
they were as big as that hat that Sarah has
all nothing.
Speaker 1 (38:33):
Nothing is as big as that hat.
Speaker 3 (38:35):
Thing is god that I'm sure people are probably talking
about that.
Speaker 2 (38:38):
They go everywhere just a blanket. It's a great, It
was a great, it's beyond.
Speaker 1 (38:48):
She has the most incredible knack for dressing of any
individual I've ever seen. And obviously she does not dress
like Carrie, which I think is a big, big misconception,
but her sense of how and what and when and like,
it's like magic. Watching it. It's incredible.
Speaker 3 (39:07):
It's really, it's really amazing. I directed Sarah, Jessica and
Matthew in this Broadway revival of Plaza Suite.
Speaker 2 (39:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (39:15):
Yeah, And I'm just bringing up all of my career.
I love to do it, but I it was just
amazing watching them work together and how extraordinarily different they
are as performers and people, and what kind of chemistry
that produces. But I just wanted to bring it up
because the legendary costume designer Jane Greenwood did the clothes,
(39:35):
and she had done Sylvia with Sarah, many things with
her and Matthew, and the way I went to her
costume fittings and they're so great because she's got such
an unbelievable uncanny sense of lines and every cut of things,
and Jane, who knows so much more than Sarah, Like
(39:58):
it was a real collaboration. Yeah, and I'm sure, and
the way it was with Pat and this brilliant new person.
Speaker 1 (40:03):
Yet really Molly's not actually knew she's been here.
Speaker 3 (40:06):
Molly was the path and that's one of the reasons
why she's doing such a great, great job is because
she has a history.
Speaker 1 (40:13):
With Definitely, I mean trust her so much, but she's
so Molly's also really into the details, like the two
of them can just go down the rabbit hole of
like how something was woven or whatever.
Speaker 3 (40:22):
It's very Do you spend a lot of time in
wardrobe fittings before each season?
Speaker 1 (40:26):
Oh yeah, we all do. I mean there's there's a
lead up. Yeah, there's a lead up like prep. But
then also during the you know, it doesn't it's never
very big part of it. And I used to kind
of kick in screaming. Now I'm like, yeah, I love it, Yeah, yeah, exactly, surrender.
I love it. You were so spoiled.
Speaker 3 (40:43):
It's such a It's as you said earlier, like you know,
I would have I might have thought it could or
could not be a hit, But never in a million
years would I have imagined what did happen because it's
unprecedented exactly because it's never happened, there's.
Speaker 1 (40:57):
No model for us. And that's partly what I love
is well. And people can feel all different ways about
the first movie, the second movie, the new show, whatever,
I don't care, because to me, we are just creating
and creating and creating. And I know that we're creating
from such a sense of love and respect for each
other and the fact that we love to be together
(41:17):
and to make a show that people can relate to.
And you know, our eye has never been on like
the big success models or whatever. It has been on
just making a story that.
Speaker 3 (41:27):
We love absolutely and and that and that you did
it on this little wild, wild West furthest place in
the frontier HBO that then became HBO that we know today.
And and then whoever the smart people were who said, yeah,
let's sell this into syndication because one of the things
being my age being young ish when it all started,
(41:51):
Sarah's age, that that it would be generational, that incredible,
So like Wicked is doing that now, is a show
that young women went to see when they were twelve
years old twenty years ago, and now they're taking their
daughters to see it.
Speaker 1 (42:06):
Incredible.
Speaker 3 (42:06):
And this show, which was so blue as and where
we started, you know, was so r rated, has become
this thing that people have passed down to their children
and said, watch this. This is New York City, this
is friendship, right, this is yeah.
Speaker 1 (42:23):
Right, I know, it's it's incredible, It's really well. I
just want to say, I'm so happy that you're a
small but brilliant part of it.
Speaker 2 (42:30):
I was naked in the show, so let's not use
the word small.
Speaker 1 (42:34):
You were mighty fine behind mighty fine. But also, wouldn't
it be incredible if we could bring Catholic Guy back?
Oh my god, where's Kavla Guy?
Speaker 3 (42:44):
I really do every now and then I've said to
Michael Patrick, like not even about me, Like it would
be nice to see a couple more of the old timer's, but.
Speaker 1 (42:52):
Like what happened to them, because they're such vivid, vivid characters.
Speaker 3 (42:55):
Who was the brilliant I'm sorry, I wish I knew
his name because I'm such a big fan of his.
Speaker 2 (42:59):
The guy who played Scooter in the first season.
Speaker 1 (43:03):
Yeah, what is that guy's name? We never. I don't
know where he is. He's very good, Oh he was.
Speaker 3 (43:08):
He was very good, unique and odd, like a puppy.
Speaker 1 (43:13):
A little puppy. But that is just mean to him.
Speaker 2 (43:16):
Genius casting all through it. Ben Webber, web Ben Weber.
But you know when you mentioned Kyle, brilliant Kyle, because
you and Evan are so brilliant together. I almost feel
like you've been together forever.
Speaker 1 (43:29):
But no, Look, we've been together a long long time.
Speaker 2 (43:32):
Yeah, long time.
Speaker 1 (43:33):
But there was Kyle before him, absolutely incredibly vivid and
wonderful as well, just very very different, incredibly Yeah, I've
been so incredibly lucky before that. There was so many guys.
Charlotte had so many guys.
Speaker 3 (43:45):
Yeah, and you're not going to We're not going to
see Kyle show up at the end of the season.
Speaker 2 (43:50):
You'll never tell.
Speaker 1 (43:51):
I don't know. I don't know, but we we discussed
some things, but we you know, this is the thing.
Harry and Charlotte are the last couple of so I
don't know that we want to mess.
Speaker 2 (44:04):
They so know each other. That's what I love about
watching them.
Speaker 3 (44:07):
They they people who've been together at the You know,
you may may hate each other at times, you may
bore this out of each other. You know the other person,
warts and all. And that's what's great about the writing
for those two characters. They really they really look at
each other and they see each other.
Speaker 1 (44:23):
I agree, I agree, Hickey. I knew it would be incredible,
is it?
Speaker 2 (44:26):
Okay?
Speaker 1 (44:29):
This is the catching up with friends you delivered and
then so to honor a real.
Speaker 3 (44:34):
Thrill and an honor to be here, to have known
you and admired you for so many years now and
that it's still going on.
Speaker 1 (44:40):
I know, it's incredible. I'm so happy that you're with us.
Love to see you always. Let's get Catholic guy back.
Just hang out with us, doing my squats.
Speaker 2 (44:50):
I was doing my squats. The butt is still kind
of perfect.
Speaker 4 (44:55):
Okay, all right, thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (45:00):
The Constans Disco Basias
Host
Kristin Davis
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