May 9, 2025 • 38 mins
Before you fell in love with her on The Marvelous Mrs. Maisel, she was Pamela Glock — the realtor that Samantha two-timed for a man! Caroline brings a unique perspective, because when she filmed that episode, she couldn’t have imagined how the show would explode. She reveals why she loved it just from reading the script.
And a fact about Charlotte is revealed that you may find shocking!
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hi, I'm Kristin Davis, and I want to know are
you a Charlotte? Hi? Everybody, welcome to Are you a Charlotte? Today?
We have a really fun guest is Caroline Aaron, who
was in the first season. She is an incredible actress
who has done Broadway film, She's worked with amazing directors
(00:24):
and so many incredible parts on television. She's incredible. We
have a great conversation. We talk about Michael Patrick King,
who she's known forever and loves. So please join us
for a fun talk with Caroline Erin. Welcome. Welcome, Caroline Aaron.
(00:44):
I'm so excited to have you, so exciting to you.
Oh you're so sweet. We I mean, first of all,
when they printed out your look at the number of
papers I have about your resume. My good lord, I
don't even know where to start, but we're going to
start with sex and the City because I swear were you.
But I mean, there's so many things I could talk
to you about. Your career is so amazing, which I
(01:05):
knew but now I really really know. And props. Okay,
thank you sweet are it's so so so nice. So
tell me. I love to ask people what they remember
this would have been what nineteen ninety eight?
Speaker 2 (01:22):
Was that the first season?
Speaker 1 (01:23):
Yep, you were on the first season.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
Wait, you're wow? I know wow. And I'm only thirty
so that was twenty so I must have been three,
So I mus have been three years old.
Speaker 1 (01:34):
Yeah. We were all little babies, all of us.
Speaker 2 (01:36):
Much little babies. Yes, this is what I remember. Of
many things that I remember, I remember meeting Sarah. I
had never met her before. Okay, I think I said
to her, do you have all the same number of
organs that I have? Because I could. She was so
tiny that I thought she can't also have a gallbladder
and a pancreas that little ribcage.
Speaker 1 (02:00):
She's tiny.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
Yeah, she was itty bitty. So that was like really different.
And I knew all that, you know, I'd met Michael
Patrick King doing a play that he wrote. Oh which
one it was, I don't even know what the name
of this play was, but it was from a long
time ago before he was mattress Michael Patrick King, and
I was sitting on a white bench popping up and
down in Culver City. He'll wow. And then I knew
(02:23):
Darren and I knew Andrea King, who was a writer
during that first season, but I didn't know, if you
ladies right, it was sort of right at the beginning.
And I'm thinking when I first got there, I was
in New York City during my salad days in that
and I went, Wow, I wish I'd had the life
these girls had when I was in New York.
Speaker 1 (02:42):
But listen, I felt the same way because I was
also in New York City when I was an actress waitress.
So I was like, this, this is the life, and
I'm just going to try to pretend like this is
my life because it felt very surreal. You know. So
you knew Michael Patrick years before.
Speaker 2 (02:59):
Yes, years before, I knewhim, and I think I knew Darren.
I mean they just asked me. So it was hot
off the press, so nobody knew it was Sex and
the City.
Speaker 1 (03:07):
Uh huh oh no, you just go, Okay.
Speaker 2 (03:09):
I just want to be there for my friends that
are working on something new. It's got an incredible cast
with the four of you, and I don't think Evan
Handler was on it.
Speaker 1 (03:18):
Then, No, not yet. Harry had not shown up. Yet.
Speaker 2 (03:21):
Harry hadn't shown up. I did a Broadway show with it.
So now that you guys have been on for so
long and done so much. I probably know almost everybody
who's ever been on it.
Speaker 1 (03:30):
Ah. I love that well you I think you have
worked with everyone in the industry for sure. What play
did you do with Evan?
Speaker 2 (03:37):
A play called I Hate Hamlet?
Speaker 1 (03:39):
Oh yeah, yeah, I heard of that. Yeah, oh wow, wow,
I'm going to talk to him about that. Now. This
is what I love so much about you. Like, as
much as you are a brilliant character actress, where you
can do Broadway film, Woody Allen, Mike Nichols, television, vintage
you know, period pieces, blah blah blah, everything, you are
(04:01):
also very specifically you like your voice alone is like
so evocative, Like I just hear your voice and it's
very powerful. So when Mazel came on, I was like,
this is like the best thing that's ever happened. We
just get so much Caroline, which I really love.
Speaker 2 (04:19):
Right, I have to say that was the gift that
keeps on giving and so special, very special and very exciting.
And you know, because I'd worked with so many great,
great film directors who were all tours starting with I
think the very first Broadway play I ever did was
directed by Robert Altman one of the Wow filmmakers with
(04:39):
cher what Love It, and Chassy was always there and
that's Chaz now I understand share and Sandy Dennis and
Kiaren Black and directed it. So that was really exciting
because it was his first time sort of doing theater himself,
and because I've worked with so many iconic filmmakers, and
(04:59):
you know, I always say, like, tour filmmakers are different
because there's nothing being done by committee. It's all one vision.
You die on that hill or you succeed on that hill.
And then when I got in Mazel, I went, oh,
there's a tours in television too, and you are a
part of a show that has a television a tour,
(05:21):
and so was I.
Speaker 1 (05:22):
Definitely, I'm doing.
Speaker 2 (05:24):
A lot of TV. I remember one time years ago,
I auditioned for something and my agents called me and said,
you're their first choice. And I was excited and they went, unfortunately,
this time they're going with their second choice.
Speaker 1 (05:37):
Oh my god, And I went.
Speaker 2 (05:39):
Your kid what they said, because you think about it,
when something's being done by committee, not everybody's going to
have the same first choice. So you and I have
to agree, we're going to throw out our first choice.
Then we're gonna go to our second choice or our
third choice, whatever it is. So when you work on
a show like Sex and the City or Mazel or whatever,
it's one person's vision and that's pretty exciting.
Speaker 1 (06:00):
I agree, I agree totally. And I don't know, I
don't know if people really realize that in a way.
I mean, I think true fans realize that, you know,
but I don't know if everyone does. And I sometimes
wonder if everyone realizes that. I mean, for us also,
it's been amazing to also have this length of time
working together. You know, it's very unusual obviously, and we
(06:23):
have a lot of input, which is great. But it
is still Michael Patrick's vision.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
You know, Yes, you're dealing with one person who has this,
and you know, I love him and I tested for
a bunch of shows, you know, he did a bunch
of shows before you did your show. And but he
the reason he I think, once he became even like
mildly successfully, he either rented or bought this theater in
Culver City because he wanted doing work. He wanted to
(06:49):
keep turning over the soil of his own artistic imagination.
And then you guys snatched him up and kept him.
Speaker 1 (06:55):
Ahha, we kept him. But then he did Two Broke Girls,
which you were also on.
Speaker 2 (06:59):
Oh it's right, that was Michael's. Oh that's right, that
was right, right, right, right, right, so fun.
Speaker 1 (07:05):
I mean, you do everything like you do multi cam.
It's very impressive. What is your favorite?
Speaker 2 (07:11):
Well, I just closed in an off Broadway play here
and I had and it was just a two hander
and it was just me and this kid and for
two hours, and I loved it so and I went, wow,
I'm really working for a living now. I had no
when you're doing eight times a week and it's just you,
it's but you know, I loved it, and I would
(07:31):
have to say, it's not the what I would say,
the delivery system. Whether it's television single camera for camera
or film, indie or studio, or theater Broadway or off Broadway,
it's it's the part. Yeah, It's always about what is
the part? What are you communicating to people? And who
(07:52):
is this person? And that's always going to be my
favorite is whoever it is that I'm playing. If I'm
very turned on by that, and I like to do
a deep dive. I'm sort of a nuisance when you
work with me because I ask so many questions.
Speaker 1 (08:07):
Haha. I love it. I love it.
Speaker 2 (08:10):
I'm not difficult, but I'm curious.
Speaker 1 (08:13):
Well, I think that you cannot be a good actor
and not be curious. I mean, that's I think possibly
number one.
Speaker 2 (08:20):
I know.
Speaker 1 (08:21):
Yeah, my question for you about choosing roles, if that's
the thing that's really driving you, because sometimes for me,
it's about the role, but sometimes it's also about who
you're working with, which sometimes I make a mistake that
way what I'm saying. But I love the like the collaboration.
You want to be with people that excite you creatively.
But also I feel sometimes when I look at different
(08:44):
things that I've done in the past, and maybe there's
a practical reason or whatever, but usually it's like some weird,
unconscious reason that I choose a role. Do you ever
feel that, like something in yourself that you need to
express or that hasn't gotten attention or light.
Speaker 2 (08:57):
Yes, you know, I'm always going to be drawn to
not repeating myself, you know what I mean. It's like
if you were offered like in the next ten years. Charlotte, Charlotte, Charlotte, Charlotte,
Oh god, no, yeah, and you would go. You know what,
I've already played in this sandbox. I want to play
in another sandbox.
Speaker 1 (09:15):
Oh for sure. Oh I've definitely taken parts just based
on that. It's not always a great thing, I know,
really yeah, no, I definitely have done that. Also because
I have now played Charlotte for almost thirty years, which
is really plenty. I love her. I would like to
keep going, but I don't need to do any other
versions of her.
Speaker 2 (09:33):
And you get into the mountain, you know what I mean,
You've got to talk with this character. You don't need
to do that again.
Speaker 1 (09:40):
You no, so in your mind, like with Mazel. I mean. Also,
part of the reason I talk about Mazel is that
we have a lot of the crew members from Mazel.
You love to remind us, do we have a lot
(10:00):
of the camera crew, and they're always like that time
on Mazel when we shot a three block with the
crane and we're like, we know, it was amazing, you
know what I mean, you're still you know, basking in
the glory basically, So I feel like we talk about it.
I mean also it was such a beautiful New York show,
(10:21):
you know, in a different way, in a different era.
But so for me like, I love that era so much.
Speaker 2 (10:28):
I know it made me miss my mother every day.
I wrote that was published in a magazine. I think
the name of the article was called The mother Load.
And originally they were going to interview me about Mazel.
And then it's like, and I'm sure you feel this too,
I really am so sick of talking about myself when
you're doing that blot of press all at once, and
you just feel like, oh no, no, don't talk to
(10:49):
me about me. So then they said they offered for
me to write it. Well, right, So I wrote about
my mom, sang a mom. It was great where there
was an overlap between her mother ing and and Shirley
the character. It was putting on the clothes. It was
like and I kept thinking, why did I give away
(11:10):
all on my mother's clothes?
Speaker 1 (11:12):
Oh my gosh. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:13):
And you know, I don't remember it well enough. But
one of the sort of like iconic things about Shirley
was this white mank that she had all the time
with her, no matter if it was eighty degrees up seven,
and it was a real mink, and Amy wanted it
to be white as opposed to brown, and it went
fift decent they searched it out, and then a couple
of months after the show wrapped, they sent it to
me as a gift.
Speaker 1 (11:35):
It's so sweet.
Speaker 2 (11:36):
That's so sweet, and I go, what will I ever
do with it? But maybe it will come back in.
But it was those kinds of things, gloves, hats, all
those things that my mother always it was just her
everyday life, yeah, other things, and I think that made
me miss her.
Speaker 1 (11:51):
Yeah, well, those details. I mean, that's such an interesting
thing to think about when you're playing a part, and
sometimes when you're doing something on stage. Also because I
feel like when you're doing something on stage, they really
build a costume from the ground up, you know, in
a wonderful way, which changes how you feel and how
you're moving and all of those things, which is also
(12:13):
true of modern clothes as well. We just kind of
take it for granted. But I feel like the details,
the details that went into those costumes amazing.
Speaker 2 (12:22):
Are costume design genius. I would come in some days
and I'd go, do I have to put on the girdle?
You know, and the point you brought out because there'd
be a scene where I just be in my road
and she goes, yes, you have to put it on.
It makes you walk differently, it makes you talk to
you know what I mean. It's like, yeah, I cannot
believe that women in that aid and during that time
didn't have a lot of bladder infections. I can tell
(12:43):
you that because none of them I did to go
to the bathroom. There was a lot to take off.
Speaker 1 (12:47):
Oh my god, I feel you. I mean I can
only imagine. Yeah, like even just for sex and the city,
there's a lot to take off. And sometimes we're in
locations and they don't have nice bathrooms and were like, you, guys,
you gotta sweep the floors because these clothes are going
to be a wreck because we got to take care
of all the layers anyway, and the belts and the
wh Yeah, yeah, but yes, I mean Mazel. But I'm sorry.
(13:09):
I obviously I'm a big band, So I'm just gonna
talk about Mazel. But I'll get off Mazel.
Speaker 2 (13:14):
For my whole life. I loved it so much.
Speaker 1 (13:16):
I'm so glad. Isn't that just such a gift. It's
such a gift to have something you guys.
Speaker 2 (13:20):
Have to is that we are all in touch with
each other all the time. We will never yah and
I kept thinking to myself. I even said to Amy
and Dan once and you should ask Michael this too,
because I don't know the answer. Did they cast chemistry
for us and all those people? I mean, it was
unbelievable and they didn't.
Speaker 1 (13:39):
It was just so amazing.
Speaker 2 (13:41):
They just looked out And we still are all very
much each other's family, creative.
Speaker 1 (13:46):
Family, absolutely, I mean for us. They also we didn't
read together anything like that. I've never met Sarah Jessica,
I had never met Cynthia. I've met Kim briefly. But
it is just such a very very unusual situation and
where and I mean, this is our job, right, Like
our job is to go onto a set and to
make that work, you know, to connect, but it doesn't
(14:08):
always work the way you want it, to write, like
you can try and try and try, and sometimes you
still don't have that like kind of frision, you.
Speaker 2 (14:15):
Know, doubt and yes you're right. I remember when I
was studying when I first came to New York, I
was studying with the great Uda Hagen, and one of
the big questions was, so I'm in a scene and
it's a love scene, and I hate the guy I'm with.
I just hate him. I hate what he's doing on Uda.
What do you do? She said, you know you use
(14:36):
the magic if it says if he's the love of
your life, it'says if you can't wait to get your
hands on him. Sometimes that works, sometimes that doesn't. And
if you can't make it work, you have to quit
because you can't let you can't legislate another actor's performance.
I'm sure you know urse you've tried to legislate what
you're doing. I would never do that to another actor.
(14:56):
It's certainly been done.
Speaker 1 (14:57):
To me me too, right.
Speaker 2 (15:00):
Haven't you been to it? Yeah? I'm like, okay, you know.
Speaker 1 (15:03):
Usually by men, by me, by male actors.
Speaker 2 (15:06):
Male actors saying things to me, I will be nameless.
But I was doing a movie and the actor came
up to me and said, you know, if you if
you make it very real, little be funnier, and I went, really,
thank you so much for that tip. I'm going to use.
Speaker 1 (15:20):
My god. I was like, oh my god, I had this.
I've had two actors say this to me kind of early,
like like maybe the first week where you know you're
you've got some scene, and these were roles where I'm
like the mom right. So you're usually in a kitchen,
you know those kitchen scenes. We have all these props,
but you're you have like little kind of inconsequential dialogue
(15:43):
and the actor has the main he's driving the scene,
and so you're just trying to be real, as you said,
and do your best that you can do, and you're
actually rehearsing. So I was rehearsing the prop work and
the actor is standing maybe three feet from me in
terms of the director and says she's not going to
do it like that is she?
Speaker 2 (16:00):
Oh my god?
Speaker 1 (16:02):
And I'm just like, oh my god. I was like, ah,
I was rehearsing, Hello, I can hear you, and I
was rehearsing and we ended up getting along great. But
in the beginning, I mean, it does scare you, like,
oh God, Jesus, is the whole job going to be
like this? Yeah, but that's good to know.
Speaker 2 (16:21):
I would never say anything to another actor. So we
were really really lucky on Mazel that the chemistry we
got for free we did it was just there. We
cared about each other and we see each other now
all the time. And the opening up the play I
just did off Broadway, my pretend son Michael Zigan was
there with my real the son of the play. So wow,
(16:46):
my three sons all standing there. It was really crazy.
Speaker 1 (16:48):
Oh I love it. I love it so much. Rachel
is so nice. I see her at event. She's so
lovely and I'm so looking forward to Superman. I feel
like she is the star of Superman.
Speaker 2 (16:56):
It is and let me just say, you know, it
starts with the umber one on the call sheet, and
I kept thinking, why is this working so well? But
I'll tell you, and it was Rachel's that it was
all of our attitudes. The project was more important than
any single one of us. So everybody was bringing their
A game to the material and so that was the
star of the show.
Speaker 1 (17:17):
The show, Well, that's what we wanted, that's what we
tried our best to do.
Speaker 2 (17:22):
I mean, I think you did. Thank you by it
because where you are you're still going Massie.
Speaker 1 (17:28):
That's right, which we're just so incredibly lucky. Like do
you ever think about your whole career and like when
you were starting, what was your biggest dream er? What
was your fantasy version of your career?
Speaker 2 (17:41):
My fantasy version hasn't happened yet. Can't wait for it.
Speaker 1 (17:44):
Oh, I love that, Okay, do you want to put
it out there? What is it?
Speaker 2 (17:47):
I lived in La you know, for twenty four years,
and I said until I came back to New York
for Meson, what I used to say, what I want
for my career is to know where my parking place is.
So I just want, you know what I mean? It
was like, I just pray for them. I just pray
I would I think I would like to be on
(18:08):
a successful, important, interesting TV series for a number of
years I've never done. I mean, I did that with Masiel,
really great, and I would like to have that back
because it's like being a school teacher. You have three
months off in the summer. You can do other things
that you really really want to do. And although what's
going on in our business now is very complicated.
Speaker 1 (18:31):
Oh my god, Yeah, this is chaos.
Speaker 2 (18:33):
It's just unbelievable, and who knows where this is all
gonna land. But I just keep thinking, you know, artists
are the witnesses and it will be our footprints in
the snow that a one hundred years from now people
will follow and say they'll be watching your show to
try and put together what was it like to be
like then?
Speaker 1 (18:51):
This is why I'm doing the podcast because I thought
to myself, you know, we've been incredibly lucky and blessed
to be a part of this thing. And many other
people have shared their thoughts about the show and the
people on the show and what they think went on
or didn't go on. But I thought, why shouldn't we
share our own thoughts and memories. So there's like a
time capsule because things are changing so rapidly, you know.
Speaker 2 (19:14):
Funny because I was only in that one episode for
a minute in the first season, and like even very
early on in the first season, and then the show
grew up to be it will go down in history,
right obviously. And I went to see it Bucks County.
I saw the original material from Kandas Bush.
Speaker 1 (19:34):
Oh you saw her show?
Speaker 2 (19:35):
Yes? I saw her show How Great, which was so interesting.
Did you ever see it? No?
Speaker 1 (19:41):
She I just started on the podcast. She talked a
lot about it. I mean, she's a fascinating person.
Speaker 2 (19:45):
So fascinating. And you know what the set was. Did
you tell you what the set was? No? Imagine a
set like a stage, and it was all of these
different platforms made out of blue sight and on every
platform was just a pair of shoes, a hundred pair
of shoes.
Speaker 1 (19:59):
Wow, Oh that's a great idea.
Speaker 2 (20:02):
It's a great idea. And yeah, our shoes. I mean
I thought about it like we could probably all do
that with our own closets, you know what I mean,
pair of shoes or that pair of shoes or you know.
It's like I did Nora Front's play Love Lost in
what Yeah, the same idea, which is I don't know
if it's true for men, but it's certainly true for women.
Clothes are like electricity. They're conductors of things and events
(20:25):
and memories, yeah, that we have in our lives. Like
when I went back and looks at the episode, I went,
I know that jacket. I know that you know what
I mean? It was like, yeah, oh I remember all
of that and why I had that on and.
Speaker 1 (20:39):
So great, so great, and the thing that I love
about you, and I mean, this is true in all
the roles that you do. But when also I don't
always remember. Part of what's interesting looking back on the
show is like I would never have thought that you
were in first season. I remember you so vividly being
on because you're such a presence, but I would have
thought it was later but first season, we hadn't even
been on the air, right, so you definitely.
Speaker 2 (21:00):
Knew that it was the city exactly, you know what
I mean. It was like and I, yeah, wonder what
people are going to like this? You know, it's oh,
it's you know. I when people would interview me about
Maisiel and they'd go, why do you think it's a hit?
And I would go and it was a When they
first sent it to me, I was like, Okay, this
is great. Jews will like it. New Yorkers will like it.
(21:20):
I guess that's a lot of people. And then it
turned out that it blew up internationally and we did
press all over the world, and I would ask people
all the time, like we were in Milan doing press
and there were all these journalists that came in from
like Sweeten and Brazil and this place, and I'm like,
why do they like? Where do they line up?
Speaker 1 (21:40):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (21:40):
Find find a place to relate to. And it was
one of the most interesting things that I heard was
there was a young woman, a young journalist, I think
she was from Sweden, and she said, we see a
lot of young women on television, but we don't see
confident women our age. Wow, Oh, she's you know, most
(22:01):
of the women they were seeing on television, you know,
they had boyfriend problems or parent problems or job problems
or whatever. They didn't see confident women. And it was
so meaningful to her to see a woman who was
ambitious and confident in her thirties. And I, wow, isn't
that interesting? I thought that was interesting. And also it's
(22:22):
about family and everything else, even if it's not even
if your specifics are not their specifics, I think. And
it's about dreamers dream and I think people like really
really responded to that, and so it was a big mystery.
And I felt the same way when my friends all
(22:43):
started on Sex and the City because I knew Dark,
I knew Michael, and I knew one of your writers
at that time, this woman Andrea King, who's a wonderful writer.
And I think we had become friendly. She was like
the editor of the Hollywood Reporter or she'd been in
journalism in some way.
Speaker 1 (22:57):
Wow. Oh, I didn't know that, yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:59):
And was like one of her best friends. He asked her,
you know, to come to the party, and I remember wondering, people,
I don't like this.
Speaker 1 (23:08):
I mean, we wondered as well.
Speaker 2 (23:10):
We were staring to know from you you didn't the scripture,
cheating a pilot, you go, I don't know.
Speaker 1 (23:15):
I mean, we knew that we loved it, you know,
I think that we had I mean, I know, for myself,
I had a sense of how special and different it was.
You know, certainly I had been I had been my
out of work afterself in New York, and then I
had gone to LA because there was more work, right,
and then in LA everything was much more you know, soundstagey.
(23:36):
The guys are the leads, the girls or the girlfriends,
you know, all of that kind of thing. So for me,
it was something where I thought that this is like
shocking basically that four of us are here, you know,
with our own storylines walking around Manhattan at night time,
like yay. But I didn't know if it would resonate
(23:56):
out in the world, and we all really thought that
it might just well, Sirjisca says that she didn't even
really think about the success part, which is super interesting.
But I do think she's very you know, kind of
what you're saying about the part. She's kind of project focused,
you know, she's not big picture focused. I myself, I
felt like I want this to keep going, and I
(24:16):
hope we can get at least a niche type following,
you know, and wouldn't that be great?
Speaker 2 (24:21):
Right?
Speaker 1 (24:21):
And obviously it unfolded in a very different and fantastic way,
but we none of us saw that coming. You could
never see that coming.
Speaker 2 (24:29):
You know. It was really interesting when I went back
and watched this episode. So we are saying it was, well.
Speaker 1 (24:35):
Here did you say the first season ninety eight?
Speaker 2 (24:37):
Okay, so it's ninety eight and there was all of
this talk about oral sex for women, and I like,
I'm rewatching it now and going that was radical. Yeah,
it's radical. It doesn't feel radical right now to revisit it,
you know, to have that conversation with your character about
when you said I don't like it, and even a
(24:57):
woman saying I don't like it, I don't want to
do it. It's not for me, and I'm like, going, wow,
this is pretty brave.
Speaker 1 (25:04):
Oh, I know, we were scared.
Speaker 2 (25:06):
Yeah, this was really brave. I don't think people can
for now can even realize how brave it was.
Speaker 1 (25:11):
Absolutely. Yeah, things have changed in some ways so much,
and then other things have not changed, which is really
interesting to look at. I remember being nervous about so
(25:33):
many elements of it and thinking like, are people just
going to be outraged, like, oh my god, turn this off,
you know.
Speaker 2 (25:39):
Exactly, nobody should see this. It was like, yeah, yeah, yeah,
it would have been you know, you would have thought
it was late night cable.
Speaker 1 (25:49):
Right because it did have that element. It did have
that element, and there were I remember the press that
came out in the beginning, and a lot of it
that was kind of male driven reviewers kind of snow,
you know, reviewers was very negative, very negative, and part
of us was I remember, I'm not a big review
person anyway, but it trickled down to me generally speaking,
(26:11):
and we were just like, we're not gonna be That's
not who we're making the show for. We're just gonna
block it out. We're not making the show for these
white guys who write for papers, you know. Yeah, And
that is a good skill to have anyway, because you
can't really do your job if you're worrying about them.
Speaker 2 (26:27):
My daughter told me when she first discovered it, she's
twenty at out care. So let's say, you know, she's
the second round of audience members for Sex.
Speaker 1 (26:35):
In the City, second or third, Yeah, second or third.
Speaker 2 (26:38):
So she started like, let's say five years ago or
whatever it was. So I kept saying to her, so said,
why do you like it? What's in it for you said,
because it's women talking about sex. We don't ever get
to see that. And that was say, that was a
couple of years ago.
Speaker 1 (26:56):
That's incredible.
Speaker 2 (26:57):
So that has not happened, you know, like it's it
still occupies that own the loan territory, which is crazy.
Is that crazy? Yeah, it's crazy, said, some things have
stayed the same. Yeah, for young women who want to
have that conversation or see that conversation, it was very
(27:19):
She felt very much like it was a source for her.
Speaker 1 (27:23):
Yay, I like that. I mean, younger women say that
to me, and I'm pretty sure. I'm happy. Like sometimes
I feel a little nervous, like, oh my god, I
don't know, uh, you know, because we were trying. We're
playing very flawed characters obviously, you know, or it wouldn't
be interesting. But then on the other hand, I think, no,
I think that the main message is, you know, we're
representing so many different viewpoints and we're all together in it.
(27:45):
That's right, you know, the friends And I think that's
a powerful message.
Speaker 2 (27:49):
And for each other. And you're also imperfect and you
remember in their Internet Instagram generation, perfection is always being
put in front of them and making them feel really insecure.
And then they watched this show and it's not about perfection.
It's about insuality for women. And I think that's a comfort.
Speaker 1 (28:12):
Really absolutely, thank god, you know, I'm just so so
happy to be a part of it. Yeah, it's amazing.
I have a pressing, pressing question for you.
Speaker 2 (28:20):
Oh good, I'm excited. I love pressing.
Speaker 1 (28:23):
Are you a Charlotte?
Speaker 2 (28:24):
I don't think so. I mean, let's see, Am I
a Charlotte? I don't think so.
Speaker 1 (28:31):
No, what are you?
Speaker 2 (28:32):
I don't know. Let's think. The reason I was saying
that I wasn't a Charlotte is I feel like Charlotte
stays in the lines of the coloring book, or she
used to, and that's where her comfort is is. And
I don't think. I think I always felt very other. Oh,
and I don't think Charlotte is the character on that
show that's other.
Speaker 1 (28:52):
You're so right. Yeah, you're so right.
Speaker 2 (28:55):
And I don't think probably if I had to be
one of the four, i'd be.
Speaker 1 (29:01):
Cynthia yeah, Miranda. Yeah, Miranda, you seem like a Miranda
to me. She's very intellectual, but she's also like says
it like she sees it, you know. Yeah, yeah, I like.
Speaker 2 (29:10):
That, and she's kind of she's willing to go into
uncharted territory certainly now in her character. But yeah, four,
you know what I mean, she's yeah to go out
there and say, Okay, I don't know if this is
going to work out for beer or not. Charlotte seems
a little risk at first.
Speaker 1 (29:29):
Well, I have to say the funny thing, I totally agree.
And I know why you're saying that, because she was
so focused on her goal of marriage and whatnot. But
when you actually look back when we finished the series,
the first series, they did a book called Kiss and Tell,
and in the back of the book they put all
the guys that each character had been with, and guess
(29:50):
who had been with the most guys.
Speaker 2 (29:52):
Now, Charlotte is the slut, so a study girl. I know.
Speaker 1 (30:00):
I also was a little shocked. I was like wow,
But I mean, in some way, so in some ways
she's got this kind of more traditional picture she's trying
to create, right, but she was pretty adventurous in terms
of how she was going to get there, which is interesting.
Speaker 2 (30:17):
Isn't that interesting?
Speaker 1 (30:18):
I know, yeah, it's also surprising when I watched, when
I rewatched back to the early days, I'm like, wow,
I am all over the place, man. I mean, it's fun,
it's fun to watch, and I don't I don't always
remember those parts, you know, because I think her through
line was always this much more traditional thing, which was
kind of my role right on the in the mix,
(30:38):
and that was it's not really my life. So I
had to work hard on making that, you know, grounded. Yeah,
but it is interesting to think about it. I mean, yeah,
she's she's done some slightly crazy things, but that's okay.
It's fun, you know, why not? She has friends with Samantha,
so you know, show.
Speaker 2 (30:54):
Going off the air, Sex in the City. How many
years was it until just like that? When did that?
Speaker 1 (31:00):
Well, the movies were in between, right, So like for me,
it all blends like I have to remind myself of
the actual shifts and breaks that happened because obviously, like
we're there together still, right, so it still feels like
the show, except that we're getting ready to air season
three of it, just like that, and I watched the
first one. I'm like, oh no, these shows are very different.
(31:21):
They're very different. It's so fascinating. You know, same characters,
but the vibe, like the way that we shooted and
the pattern and the timing and kind of the subject matter,
all of it very different. It's super interesting.
Speaker 2 (31:35):
That's so great. That's so great.
Speaker 1 (31:37):
It is it's a very rare situation. But in between,
to answer your question, we did the first film I
think was released in two thousand and eight. I think
we went off the air in like oh four, I
feel like wow. And then so then the movie, the
second movie would have been roughly twenty ten, twenty eleven,
something like that. Then we took a kind of a
(31:57):
long break, but we saw everyone we're saying with your cab,
So you had a through line, you know personally.
Speaker 2 (32:05):
Right right, and what you guys have, what your own
personal lives have evolved. You became mothers, you became wives,
you know, all those things happened to you guys along
the way, which is which is also very exciting because
you do bring that whenever you know, the great director
Peter Brooks said, you know that which is truly personal
as universal, and we're bringing our personal selves to whatever
(32:30):
we are doing as actors. And I think that's really exciting.
I agree, gotten to do that through time.
Speaker 1 (32:37):
I agree, you're a.
Speaker 2 (32:38):
Different woman than when you started this show.
Speaker 1 (32:40):
I mean yes, like we were a little children when
we started this show. Really, you know, we lived lives
like lives multiple It's really fascinating.
Speaker 2 (32:51):
Are you in La?
Speaker 1 (32:52):
I am. I'm in La right now, getting ready to
go back to New York. We're back and forth still,
which is great. I love to be back and forth. Yeah,
I aint't ready to do the press for and just
like that, which is fun but also stressful in this
new streaming world, you know, because it's just like a blast,
like you just blasted out there, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (33:09):
I took a picture of all of the underwear I
had on the years we were going to you know,
when you're going through the Emmys and the Golden Globes
campaign problems I understand.
Speaker 1 (33:20):
But yeah, yeah, yeah, the shoes and.
Speaker 2 (33:22):
The clothes and the underwear. And I was like, oh
my god, I'm doing a show about feminism and look
what I have to put on.
Speaker 1 (33:28):
No joke, no joke.
Speaker 2 (33:31):
I know.
Speaker 1 (33:31):
It's really an interesting thing and sometimes you can go like,
I'm not going to do this. I mean, certainly in
my regular life, I just wore my jeans and my
Adidas and I'm not going to be bothered. But that
is the joy of what we do in a way,
too write, because if you don't do it for a while,
don't you kind of crave the costumes? Yes, exactly, Yeah,
I mean too.
Speaker 2 (33:50):
And I a lot. And you know, because Sex and
the City has also been about fashion, and I didn't
know anything about fashion until I did Masel and I
was like, wow, it's quite a subject and it's really interesting.
Speaker 1 (34:02):
I agree.
Speaker 2 (34:02):
I do think that fashion is the breadcrumbs of the
times we live in. Yeah, I can know a lot
about us from fashion.
Speaker 1 (34:10):
Absolutely, that's a really valid point. And I think our issue,
I think sometimes with Sex and the City is that
it almost seemed like fashion overtook the actual stories, you know,
the actual storylines, and we felt some stress, like it
seemed like we were just trying to sell shoes, which
was really never our intention. It just grew, you know,
(34:31):
and then I think we felt this this this pull
away from that when we came back for just like
that partly based on the stories. Also, like we you know,
there was mourning and death and whatnot. We didn't want
to be like running around and head to toe gucci,
you know, necessarily. So it's interesting because you want to
have the through line be there, but at the same
time we're going through different things, so that's going to
(34:52):
be reflected and what we're wearing. It's always super interesting.
It's always super interesting to think about it.
Speaker 2 (34:57):
It's really funny about on MASL which I never said
in any interviews was and this never has happened, is
that four of the seven regulars were over fifty. Amazing,
amazing and amazing. I'm on a TV show. It's like,
who am I gonna have lunch with? I'm the only
one who's over fifty?
Speaker 1 (35:18):
I understand, Yeah, we're in the same boat over there.
And then just like that.
Speaker 2 (35:22):
Exactly, you're the only one. Then I go, wow, take
a note, you know what I mean? Like this, Yes,
this could take a note. And it wasn't about being
over fifty. No, that it's okay. You could put characters
on the air all different ages, and you don't you know,
there is this feeling that you know, the thirty and
under is where where the pot of gold is. But
(35:42):
maybe fairly maybe.
Speaker 1 (35:45):
And also why can't all the stories get told right exactly?
Why not? You know? I mean, I know, we're so
lucky that we get to do our show. I fully,
fully understand that. But sometimes when people are like, you know,
are you shocked that you know, you ladies who are
over fifty are getting to be on the television, I mean, like,
(36:05):
it's hard not to be offended, like, why wouldn't we
get to be on the television?
Speaker 2 (36:09):
Well? Why because there it hasn't happened for you know what.
Speaker 1 (36:13):
It is messed up. It's just so messed.
Speaker 2 (36:15):
Up, it's so wrong. I remember I actually sold a
television pitch many years ago. I'd never done it before,
for a show that I wanted to see about women.
And we got to the point of having auditions, and
I don't know if you remember this company, Carcy Warner.
Speaker 1 (36:30):
But Marcia, yeah, of course.
Speaker 2 (36:32):
I put a friend of mine down on the list
to come in an audition, and after she had she's
a brilliant actress, and Marcy went like this to me,
what is she thirty? Like that? And I went, no,
she's not, But I said, because I played my daughter
in a play and so I know her, and I went,
but I said, so is the moral of the story
that when you get your period you shed just cut
(36:52):
up your sad card? And she said pretty much that's
what she said.
Speaker 1 (36:57):
Oh my god. I mean it's so I'm saying. But
I do remember as a young actor being so worried
that I wasn't successful. I wasn't successful until I was thirty,
and I was like, well, I'm only going to have
ten more years and it's going to be over. That's it, right,
because that was how we were brandwashed, and.
Speaker 2 (37:16):
Everybody seemed to accept it as a truth exactly. Every
time that truth gets disproved, like by your show or
our show or whatever. Yeah, like so relieved. Not no,
not that they catch up to that truth.
Speaker 1 (37:27):
No, no, I know they forget immediately.
Speaker 2 (37:29):
They forget immediately. But it's like, that's what I want
to see, is like I want to see everybody. I'm
we too. I want to see it all. I want
to see young people and older people and old old
people and yes, the human ex yes, what our.
Speaker 1 (37:42):
Job, yes, yes, yes, God, yes, all right, you're a joy.
Thank you for joining us.
Speaker 2 (37:49):
So great, give my love to everybody.
Speaker 1 (37:51):
Thank you. I will, I will, I will I talked
to Michael soon. Okay, bye, k bye, honey,
Hi, I'm Kristin Davis, and I want to know are
you a Charlotte? Hi? Everybody, welcome to Are you a Charlotte? Today?
We have a really fun guest is Caroline Aaron, who
was in the first season. She is an incredible actress
who has done Broadway film, She's worked with amazing directors
(00:24):
and so many incredible parts on television. She's incredible. We
have a great conversation. We talk about Michael Patrick King,
who she's known forever and loves. So please join us
for a fun talk with Caroline Erin. Welcome. Welcome, Caroline Aaron.
(00:44):
I'm so excited to have you, so exciting to you.
Oh you're so sweet. We I mean, first of all,
when they printed out your look at the number of
papers I have about your resume. My good lord, I
don't even know where to start, but we're going to
start with sex and the City because I swear were you.
But I mean, there's so many things I could talk
to you about. Your career is so amazing, which I
(01:05):
knew but now I really really know. And props. Okay,
thank you sweet are it's so so so nice. So
tell me. I love to ask people what they remember
this would have been what nineteen ninety eight?
Speaker 2 (01:22):
Was that the first season?
Speaker 1 (01:23):
Yep, you were on the first season.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
Wait, you're wow? I know wow. And I'm only thirty
so that was twenty so I must have been three,
So I mus have been three years old.
Speaker 1 (01:34):
Yeah. We were all little babies, all of us.
Speaker 2 (01:36):
Much little babies. Yes, this is what I remember. Of
many things that I remember, I remember meeting Sarah. I
had never met her before. Okay, I think I said
to her, do you have all the same number of
organs that I have? Because I could. She was so
tiny that I thought she can't also have a gallbladder
and a pancreas that little ribcage.
Speaker 1 (02:00):
She's tiny.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
Yeah, she was itty bitty. So that was like really different.
And I knew all that, you know, I'd met Michael
Patrick King doing a play that he wrote. Oh which
one it was, I don't even know what the name
of this play was, but it was from a long
time ago before he was mattress Michael Patrick King, and
I was sitting on a white bench popping up and
down in Culver City. He'll wow. And then I knew
(02:23):
Darren and I knew Andrea King, who was a writer
during that first season, but I didn't know, if you
ladies right, it was sort of right at the beginning.
And I'm thinking when I first got there, I was
in New York City during my salad days in that
and I went, Wow, I wish I'd had the life
these girls had when I was in New York.
Speaker 1 (02:42):
But listen, I felt the same way because I was
also in New York City when I was an actress waitress.
So I was like, this, this is the life, and
I'm just going to try to pretend like this is
my life because it felt very surreal. You know. So
you knew Michael Patrick years before.
Speaker 2 (02:59):
Yes, years before, I knewhim, and I think I knew Darren.
I mean they just asked me. So it was hot
off the press, so nobody knew it was Sex and
the City.
Speaker 1 (03:07):
Uh huh oh no, you just go, Okay.
Speaker 2 (03:09):
I just want to be there for my friends that
are working on something new. It's got an incredible cast
with the four of you, and I don't think Evan
Handler was on it.
Speaker 1 (03:18):
Then, No, not yet. Harry had not shown up. Yet.
Speaker 2 (03:21):
Harry hadn't shown up. I did a Broadway show with it.
So now that you guys have been on for so
long and done so much. I probably know almost everybody
who's ever been on it.
Speaker 1 (03:30):
Ah. I love that well you I think you have
worked with everyone in the industry for sure. What play
did you do with Evan?
Speaker 2 (03:37):
A play called I Hate Hamlet?
Speaker 1 (03:39):
Oh yeah, yeah, I heard of that. Yeah, oh wow, wow,
I'm going to talk to him about that. Now. This
is what I love so much about you. Like, as
much as you are a brilliant character actress, where you
can do Broadway film, Woody Allen, Mike Nichols, television, vintage
you know, period pieces, blah blah blah, everything, you are
(04:01):
also very specifically you like your voice alone is like
so evocative, Like I just hear your voice and it's
very powerful. So when Mazel came on, I was like,
this is like the best thing that's ever happened. We
just get so much Caroline, which I really love.
Speaker 2 (04:19):
Right, I have to say that was the gift that
keeps on giving and so special, very special and very exciting.
And you know, because I'd worked with so many great,
great film directors who were all tours starting with I
think the very first Broadway play I ever did was
directed by Robert Altman one of the Wow filmmakers with
(04:39):
cher what Love It, and Chassy was always there and
that's Chaz now I understand share and Sandy Dennis and
Kiaren Black and directed it. So that was really exciting
because it was his first time sort of doing theater himself,
and because I've worked with so many iconic filmmakers, and
(04:59):
you know, I always say, like, tour filmmakers are different
because there's nothing being done by committee. It's all one vision.
You die on that hill or you succeed on that hill.
And then when I got in Mazel, I went, oh,
there's a tours in television too, and you are a
part of a show that has a television a tour,
(05:21):
and so was I.
Speaker 1 (05:22):
Definitely, I'm doing.
Speaker 2 (05:24):
A lot of TV. I remember one time years ago,
I auditioned for something and my agents called me and said,
you're their first choice. And I was excited and they went, unfortunately,
this time they're going with their second choice.
Speaker 1 (05:37):
Oh my god, And I went.
Speaker 2 (05:39):
Your kid what they said, because you think about it,
when something's being done by committee, not everybody's going to
have the same first choice. So you and I have
to agree, we're going to throw out our first choice.
Then we're gonna go to our second choice or our
third choice, whatever it is. So when you work on
a show like Sex and the City or Mazel or whatever,
it's one person's vision and that's pretty exciting.
Speaker 1 (06:00):
I agree, I agree totally. And I don't know, I
don't know if people really realize that in a way.
I mean, I think true fans realize that, you know,
but I don't know if everyone does. And I sometimes
wonder if everyone realizes that. I mean, for us also,
it's been amazing to also have this length of time
working together. You know, it's very unusual obviously, and we
(06:23):
have a lot of input, which is great. But it
is still Michael Patrick's vision.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
You know, Yes, you're dealing with one person who has this,
and you know, I love him and I tested for
a bunch of shows, you know, he did a bunch
of shows before you did your show. And but he
the reason he I think, once he became even like
mildly successfully, he either rented or bought this theater in
Culver City because he wanted doing work. He wanted to
(06:49):
keep turning over the soil of his own artistic imagination.
And then you guys snatched him up and kept him.
Speaker 1 (06:55):
Ahha, we kept him. But then he did Two Broke Girls,
which you were also on.
Speaker 2 (06:59):
Oh it's right, that was Michael's. Oh that's right, that
was right, right, right, right, right, so fun.
Speaker 1 (07:05):
I mean, you do everything like you do multi cam.
It's very impressive. What is your favorite?
Speaker 2 (07:11):
Well, I just closed in an off Broadway play here
and I had and it was just a two hander
and it was just me and this kid and for
two hours, and I loved it so and I went, wow,
I'm really working for a living now. I had no
when you're doing eight times a week and it's just you,
it's but you know, I loved it, and I would
(07:31):
have to say, it's not the what I would say,
the delivery system. Whether it's television single camera for camera
or film, indie or studio, or theater Broadway or off Broadway,
it's it's the part. Yeah, It's always about what is
the part? What are you communicating to people? And who
(07:52):
is this person? And that's always going to be my
favorite is whoever it is that I'm playing. If I'm
very turned on by that, and I like to do
a deep dive. I'm sort of a nuisance when you
work with me because I ask so many questions.
Speaker 1 (08:07):
Haha. I love it. I love it.
Speaker 2 (08:10):
I'm not difficult, but I'm curious.
Speaker 1 (08:13):
Well, I think that you cannot be a good actor
and not be curious. I mean, that's I think possibly
number one.
Speaker 2 (08:20):
I know.
Speaker 1 (08:21):
Yeah, my question for you about choosing roles, if that's
the thing that's really driving you, because sometimes for me,
it's about the role, but sometimes it's also about who
you're working with, which sometimes I make a mistake that
way what I'm saying. But I love the like the collaboration.
You want to be with people that excite you creatively.
But also I feel sometimes when I look at different
(08:44):
things that I've done in the past, and maybe there's
a practical reason or whatever, but usually it's like some weird,
unconscious reason that I choose a role. Do you ever
feel that, like something in yourself that you need to
express or that hasn't gotten attention or light.
Speaker 2 (08:57):
Yes, you know, I'm always going to be drawn to
not repeating myself, you know what I mean. It's like
if you were offered like in the next ten years. Charlotte, Charlotte, Charlotte, Charlotte,
Oh god, no, yeah, and you would go. You know what,
I've already played in this sandbox. I want to play
in another sandbox.
Speaker 1 (09:15):
Oh for sure. Oh I've definitely taken parts just based
on that. It's not always a great thing, I know,
really yeah, no, I definitely have done that. Also because
I have now played Charlotte for almost thirty years, which
is really plenty. I love her. I would like to
keep going, but I don't need to do any other
versions of her.
Speaker 2 (09:33):
And you get into the mountain, you know what I mean,
You've got to talk with this character. You don't need
to do that again.
Speaker 1 (09:40):
You no, so in your mind, like with Mazel. I mean. Also,
part of the reason I talk about Mazel is that
we have a lot of the crew members from Mazel.
You love to remind us, do we have a lot
(10:00):
of the camera crew, and they're always like that time
on Mazel when we shot a three block with the
crane and we're like, we know, it was amazing, you
know what I mean, you're still you know, basking in
the glory basically, So I feel like we talk about it.
I mean also it was such a beautiful New York show,
(10:21):
you know, in a different way, in a different era.
But so for me like, I love that era so much.
Speaker 2 (10:28):
I know it made me miss my mother every day.
I wrote that was published in a magazine. I think
the name of the article was called The mother Load.
And originally they were going to interview me about Mazel.
And then it's like, and I'm sure you feel this too,
I really am so sick of talking about myself when
you're doing that blot of press all at once, and
you just feel like, oh no, no, don't talk to
(10:49):
me about me. So then they said they offered for
me to write it. Well, right, So I wrote about
my mom, sang a mom. It was great where there
was an overlap between her mother ing and and Shirley
the character. It was putting on the clothes. It was
like and I kept thinking, why did I give away
(11:10):
all on my mother's clothes?
Speaker 1 (11:12):
Oh my gosh. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:13):
And you know, I don't remember it well enough. But
one of the sort of like iconic things about Shirley
was this white mank that she had all the time
with her, no matter if it was eighty degrees up seven,
and it was a real mink, and Amy wanted it
to be white as opposed to brown, and it went
fift decent they searched it out, and then a couple
of months after the show wrapped, they sent it to
me as a gift.
Speaker 1 (11:35):
It's so sweet.
Speaker 2 (11:36):
That's so sweet, and I go, what will I ever
do with it? But maybe it will come back in.
But it was those kinds of things, gloves, hats, all
those things that my mother always it was just her
everyday life, yeah, other things, and I think that made
me miss her.
Speaker 1 (11:51):
Yeah, well, those details. I mean, that's such an interesting
thing to think about when you're playing a part, and
sometimes when you're doing something on stage. Also because I
feel like when you're doing something on stage, they really
build a costume from the ground up, you know, in
a wonderful way, which changes how you feel and how
you're moving and all of those things, which is also
(12:13):
true of modern clothes as well. We just kind of
take it for granted. But I feel like the details,
the details that went into those costumes amazing.
Speaker 2 (12:22):
Are costume design genius. I would come in some days
and I'd go, do I have to put on the girdle?
You know, and the point you brought out because there'd
be a scene where I just be in my road
and she goes, yes, you have to put it on.
It makes you walk differently, it makes you talk to
you know what I mean. It's like, yeah, I cannot
believe that women in that aid and during that time
didn't have a lot of bladder infections. I can tell
(12:43):
you that because none of them I did to go
to the bathroom. There was a lot to take off.
Speaker 1 (12:47):
Oh my god, I feel you. I mean I can
only imagine. Yeah, like even just for sex and the city,
there's a lot to take off. And sometimes we're in
locations and they don't have nice bathrooms and were like, you, guys,
you gotta sweep the floors because these clothes are going
to be a wreck because we got to take care
of all the layers anyway, and the belts and the
wh Yeah, yeah, but yes, I mean Mazel. But I'm sorry.
(13:09):
I obviously I'm a big band, So I'm just gonna
talk about Mazel. But I'll get off Mazel.
Speaker 2 (13:14):
For my whole life. I loved it so much.
Speaker 1 (13:16):
I'm so glad. Isn't that just such a gift. It's
such a gift to have something you guys.
Speaker 2 (13:20):
Have to is that we are all in touch with
each other all the time. We will never yah and
I kept thinking to myself. I even said to Amy
and Dan once and you should ask Michael this too,
because I don't know the answer. Did they cast chemistry
for us and all those people? I mean, it was
unbelievable and they didn't.
Speaker 1 (13:39):
It was just so amazing.
Speaker 2 (13:41):
They just looked out And we still are all very
much each other's family, creative.
Speaker 1 (13:46):
Family, absolutely, I mean for us. They also we didn't
read together anything like that. I've never met Sarah Jessica,
I had never met Cynthia. I've met Kim briefly. But
it is just such a very very unusual situation and
where and I mean, this is our job, right, Like
our job is to go onto a set and to
make that work, you know, to connect, but it doesn't
(14:08):
always work the way you want it, to write, like
you can try and try and try, and sometimes you
still don't have that like kind of frision, you.
Speaker 2 (14:15):
Know, doubt and yes you're right. I remember when I
was studying when I first came to New York, I
was studying with the great Uda Hagen, and one of
the big questions was, so I'm in a scene and
it's a love scene, and I hate the guy I'm with.
I just hate him. I hate what he's doing on Uda.
What do you do? She said, you know you use
(14:36):
the magic if it says if he's the love of
your life, it'says if you can't wait to get your
hands on him. Sometimes that works, sometimes that doesn't. And
if you can't make it work, you have to quit
because you can't let you can't legislate another actor's performance.
I'm sure you know urse you've tried to legislate what
you're doing. I would never do that to another actor.
(14:56):
It's certainly been done.
Speaker 1 (14:57):
To me me too, right.
Speaker 2 (15:00):
Haven't you been to it? Yeah? I'm like, okay, you know.
Speaker 1 (15:03):
Usually by men, by me, by male actors.
Speaker 2 (15:06):
Male actors saying things to me, I will be nameless.
But I was doing a movie and the actor came
up to me and said, you know, if you if
you make it very real, little be funnier, and I went, really,
thank you so much for that tip. I'm going to use.
Speaker 1 (15:20):
My god. I was like, oh my god, I had this.
I've had two actors say this to me kind of early,
like like maybe the first week where you know you're
you've got some scene, and these were roles where I'm
like the mom right. So you're usually in a kitchen,
you know those kitchen scenes. We have all these props,
but you're you have like little kind of inconsequential dialogue
(15:43):
and the actor has the main he's driving the scene,
and so you're just trying to be real, as you said,
and do your best that you can do, and you're
actually rehearsing. So I was rehearsing the prop work and
the actor is standing maybe three feet from me in
terms of the director and says she's not going to
do it like that is she?
Speaker 2 (16:00):
Oh my god?
Speaker 1 (16:02):
And I'm just like, oh my god. I was like, ah,
I was rehearsing, Hello, I can hear you, and I
was rehearsing and we ended up getting along great. But
in the beginning, I mean, it does scare you, like,
oh God, Jesus, is the whole job going to be
like this? Yeah, but that's good to know.
Speaker 2 (16:21):
I would never say anything to another actor. So we
were really really lucky on Mazel that the chemistry we
got for free we did it was just there. We
cared about each other and we see each other now
all the time. And the opening up the play I
just did off Broadway, my pretend son Michael Zigan was
there with my real the son of the play. So wow,
(16:46):
my three sons all standing there. It was really crazy.
Speaker 1 (16:48):
Oh I love it. I love it so much. Rachel
is so nice. I see her at event. She's so
lovely and I'm so looking forward to Superman. I feel
like she is the star of Superman.
Speaker 2 (16:56):
It is and let me just say, you know, it
starts with the umber one on the call sheet, and
I kept thinking, why is this working so well? But
I'll tell you, and it was Rachel's that it was
all of our attitudes. The project was more important than
any single one of us. So everybody was bringing their
A game to the material and so that was the
star of the show.
Speaker 1 (17:17):
The show, Well, that's what we wanted, that's what we
tried our best to do.
Speaker 2 (17:22):
I mean, I think you did. Thank you by it
because where you are you're still going Massie.
Speaker 1 (17:28):
That's right, which we're just so incredibly lucky. Like do
you ever think about your whole career and like when
you were starting, what was your biggest dream er? What
was your fantasy version of your career?
Speaker 2 (17:41):
My fantasy version hasn't happened yet. Can't wait for it.
Speaker 1 (17:44):
Oh, I love that, Okay, do you want to put
it out there? What is it?
Speaker 2 (17:47):
I lived in La you know, for twenty four years,
and I said until I came back to New York
for Meson, what I used to say, what I want
for my career is to know where my parking place is.
So I just want, you know what I mean? It
was like, I just pray for them. I just pray
I would I think I would like to be on
(18:08):
a successful, important, interesting TV series for a number of
years I've never done. I mean, I did that with Masiel,
really great, and I would like to have that back
because it's like being a school teacher. You have three
months off in the summer. You can do other things
that you really really want to do. And although what's
going on in our business now is very complicated.
Speaker 1 (18:31):
Oh my god, Yeah, this is chaos.
Speaker 2 (18:33):
It's just unbelievable, and who knows where this is all
gonna land. But I just keep thinking, you know, artists
are the witnesses and it will be our footprints in
the snow that a one hundred years from now people
will follow and say they'll be watching your show to
try and put together what was it like to be
like then?
Speaker 1 (18:51):
This is why I'm doing the podcast because I thought
to myself, you know, we've been incredibly lucky and blessed
to be a part of this thing. And many other
people have shared their thoughts about the show and the
people on the show and what they think went on
or didn't go on. But I thought, why shouldn't we
share our own thoughts and memories. So there's like a
time capsule because things are changing so rapidly, you know.
Speaker 2 (19:14):
Funny because I was only in that one episode for
a minute in the first season, and like even very
early on in the first season, and then the show
grew up to be it will go down in history,
right obviously. And I went to see it Bucks County.
I saw the original material from Kandas Bush.
Speaker 1 (19:34):
Oh you saw her show?
Speaker 2 (19:35):
Yes? I saw her show How Great, which was so interesting.
Did you ever see it? No?
Speaker 1 (19:41):
She I just started on the podcast. She talked a
lot about it. I mean, she's a fascinating person.
Speaker 2 (19:45):
So fascinating. And you know what the set was. Did
you tell you what the set was? No? Imagine a
set like a stage, and it was all of these
different platforms made out of blue sight and on every
platform was just a pair of shoes, a hundred pair
of shoes.
Speaker 1 (19:59):
Wow, Oh that's a great idea.
Speaker 2 (20:02):
It's a great idea. And yeah, our shoes. I mean
I thought about it like we could probably all do
that with our own closets, you know what I mean,
pair of shoes or that pair of shoes or you know.
It's like I did Nora Front's play Love Lost in
what Yeah, the same idea, which is I don't know
if it's true for men, but it's certainly true for women.
Clothes are like electricity. They're conductors of things and events
(20:25):
and memories, yeah, that we have in our lives. Like
when I went back and looks at the episode, I went,
I know that jacket. I know that you know what
I mean? It was like, yeah, oh I remember all
of that and why I had that on and.
Speaker 1 (20:39):
So great, so great, and the thing that I love
about you, and I mean, this is true in all
the roles that you do. But when also I don't
always remember. Part of what's interesting looking back on the
show is like I would never have thought that you
were in first season. I remember you so vividly being
on because you're such a presence, but I would have
thought it was later but first season, we hadn't even
been on the air, right, so you definitely.
Speaker 2 (21:00):
Knew that it was the city exactly, you know what
I mean. It was like and I, yeah, wonder what
people are going to like this? You know, it's oh,
it's you know. I when people would interview me about
Maisiel and they'd go, why do you think it's a hit?
And I would go and it was a When they
first sent it to me, I was like, Okay, this
is great. Jews will like it. New Yorkers will like it.
(21:20):
I guess that's a lot of people. And then it
turned out that it blew up internationally and we did
press all over the world, and I would ask people
all the time, like we were in Milan doing press
and there were all these journalists that came in from
like Sweeten and Brazil and this place, and I'm like,
why do they like? Where do they line up?
Speaker 1 (21:40):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (21:40):
Find find a place to relate to. And it was
one of the most interesting things that I heard was
there was a young woman, a young journalist, I think
she was from Sweden, and she said, we see a
lot of young women on television, but we don't see
confident women our age. Wow, Oh, she's you know, most
(22:01):
of the women they were seeing on television, you know,
they had boyfriend problems or parent problems or job problems
or whatever. They didn't see confident women. And it was
so meaningful to her to see a woman who was
ambitious and confident in her thirties. And I, wow, isn't
that interesting? I thought that was interesting. And also it's
(22:22):
about family and everything else, even if it's not even
if your specifics are not their specifics, I think. And
it's about dreamers dream and I think people like really
really responded to that, and so it was a big mystery.
And I felt the same way when my friends all
(22:43):
started on Sex and the City because I knew Dark,
I knew Michael, and I knew one of your writers
at that time, this woman Andrea King, who's a wonderful writer.
And I think we had become friendly. She was like
the editor of the Hollywood Reporter or she'd been in
journalism in some way.
Speaker 1 (22:57):
Wow. Oh, I didn't know that, yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:59):
And was like one of her best friends. He asked her,
you know, to come to the party, and I remember wondering, people,
I don't like this.
Speaker 1 (23:08):
I mean, we wondered as well.
Speaker 2 (23:10):
We were staring to know from you you didn't the scripture,
cheating a pilot, you go, I don't know.
Speaker 1 (23:15):
I mean, we knew that we loved it, you know,
I think that we had I mean, I know, for myself,
I had a sense of how special and different it was.
You know, certainly I had been I had been my
out of work afterself in New York, and then I
had gone to LA because there was more work, right,
and then in LA everything was much more you know, soundstagey.
(23:36):
The guys are the leads, the girls or the girlfriends,
you know, all of that kind of thing. So for me,
it was something where I thought that this is like
shocking basically that four of us are here, you know,
with our own storylines walking around Manhattan at night time,
like yay. But I didn't know if it would resonate
(23:56):
out in the world, and we all really thought that
it might just well, Sirjisca says that she didn't even
really think about the success part, which is super interesting.
But I do think she's very you know, kind of
what you're saying about the part. She's kind of project focused,
you know, she's not big picture focused. I myself, I
felt like I want this to keep going, and I
(24:16):
hope we can get at least a niche type following,
you know, and wouldn't that be great?
Speaker 2 (24:21):
Right?
Speaker 1 (24:21):
And obviously it unfolded in a very different and fantastic way,
but we none of us saw that coming. You could
never see that coming.
Speaker 2 (24:29):
You know. It was really interesting when I went back
and watched this episode. So we are saying it was, well.
Speaker 1 (24:35):
Here did you say the first season ninety eight?
Speaker 2 (24:37):
Okay, so it's ninety eight and there was all of
this talk about oral sex for women, and I like,
I'm rewatching it now and going that was radical. Yeah,
it's radical. It doesn't feel radical right now to revisit it,
you know, to have that conversation with your character about
when you said I don't like it, and even a
(24:57):
woman saying I don't like it, I don't want to
do it. It's not for me, and I'm like, going, wow,
this is pretty brave.
Speaker 1 (25:04):
Oh, I know, we were scared.
Speaker 2 (25:06):
Yeah, this was really brave. I don't think people can
for now can even realize how brave it was.
Speaker 1 (25:11):
Absolutely. Yeah, things have changed in some ways so much,
and then other things have not changed, which is really
interesting to look at. I remember being nervous about so
(25:33):
many elements of it and thinking like, are people just
going to be outraged, like, oh my god, turn this off,
you know.
Speaker 2 (25:39):
Exactly, nobody should see this. It was like, yeah, yeah, yeah,
it would have been you know, you would have thought
it was late night cable.
Speaker 1 (25:49):
Right because it did have that element. It did have
that element, and there were I remember the press that
came out in the beginning, and a lot of it
that was kind of male driven reviewers kind of snow,
you know, reviewers was very negative, very negative, and part
of us was I remember, I'm not a big review
person anyway, but it trickled down to me generally speaking,
(26:11):
and we were just like, we're not gonna be That's
not who we're making the show for. We're just gonna
block it out. We're not making the show for these
white guys who write for papers, you know. Yeah, And
that is a good skill to have anyway, because you
can't really do your job if you're worrying about them.
Speaker 2 (26:27):
My daughter told me when she first discovered it, she's
twenty at out care. So let's say, you know, she's
the second round of audience members for Sex.
Speaker 1 (26:35):
In the City, second or third, Yeah, second or third.
Speaker 2 (26:38):
So she started like, let's say five years ago or
whatever it was. So I kept saying to her, so said,
why do you like it? What's in it for you said,
because it's women talking about sex. We don't ever get
to see that. And that was say, that was a
couple of years ago.
Speaker 1 (26:56):
That's incredible.
Speaker 2 (26:57):
So that has not happened, you know, like it's it
still occupies that own the loan territory, which is crazy.
Is that crazy? Yeah, it's crazy, said, some things have
stayed the same. Yeah, for young women who want to
have that conversation or see that conversation, it was very
(27:19):
She felt very much like it was a source for her.
Speaker 1 (27:23):
Yay, I like that. I mean, younger women say that
to me, and I'm pretty sure. I'm happy. Like sometimes
I feel a little nervous, like, oh my god, I
don't know, uh, you know, because we were trying. We're
playing very flawed characters obviously, you know, or it wouldn't
be interesting. But then on the other hand, I think, no,
I think that the main message is, you know, we're
representing so many different viewpoints and we're all together in it.
(27:45):
That's right, you know, the friends And I think that's
a powerful message.
Speaker 2 (27:49):
And for each other. And you're also imperfect and you
remember in their Internet Instagram generation, perfection is always being
put in front of them and making them feel really insecure.
And then they watched this show and it's not about perfection.
It's about insuality for women. And I think that's a comfort.
Speaker 1 (28:12):
Really absolutely, thank god, you know, I'm just so so
happy to be a part of it. Yeah, it's amazing.
I have a pressing, pressing question for you.
Speaker 2 (28:20):
Oh good, I'm excited. I love pressing.
Speaker 1 (28:23):
Are you a Charlotte?
Speaker 2 (28:24):
I don't think so. I mean, let's see, Am I
a Charlotte? I don't think so.
Speaker 1 (28:31):
No, what are you?
Speaker 2 (28:32):
I don't know. Let's think. The reason I was saying
that I wasn't a Charlotte is I feel like Charlotte
stays in the lines of the coloring book, or she
used to, and that's where her comfort is is. And
I don't think. I think I always felt very other. Oh,
and I don't think Charlotte is the character on that
show that's other.
Speaker 1 (28:52):
You're so right. Yeah, you're so right.
Speaker 2 (28:55):
And I don't think probably if I had to be
one of the four, i'd be.
Speaker 1 (29:01):
Cynthia yeah, Miranda. Yeah, Miranda, you seem like a Miranda
to me. She's very intellectual, but she's also like says
it like she sees it, you know. Yeah, yeah, I like.
Speaker 2 (29:10):
That, and she's kind of she's willing to go into
uncharted territory certainly now in her character. But yeah, four,
you know what I mean, she's yeah to go out
there and say, Okay, I don't know if this is
going to work out for beer or not. Charlotte seems
a little risk at first.
Speaker 1 (29:29):
Well, I have to say the funny thing, I totally agree.
And I know why you're saying that, because she was
so focused on her goal of marriage and whatnot. But
when you actually look back when we finished the series,
the first series, they did a book called Kiss and Tell,
and in the back of the book they put all
the guys that each character had been with, and guess
(29:50):
who had been with the most guys.
Speaker 2 (29:52):
Now, Charlotte is the slut, so a study girl. I know.
Speaker 1 (30:00):
I also was a little shocked. I was like wow,
But I mean, in some way, so in some ways
she's got this kind of more traditional picture she's trying
to create, right, but she was pretty adventurous in terms
of how she was going to get there, which is interesting.
Speaker 2 (30:17):
Isn't that interesting?
Speaker 1 (30:18):
I know, yeah, it's also surprising when I watched, when
I rewatched back to the early days, I'm like, wow,
I am all over the place, man. I mean, it's fun,
it's fun to watch, and I don't I don't always
remember those parts, you know, because I think her through
line was always this much more traditional thing, which was
kind of my role right on the in the mix,
(30:38):
and that was it's not really my life. So I
had to work hard on making that, you know, grounded. Yeah,
but it is interesting to think about it. I mean, yeah,
she's she's done some slightly crazy things, but that's okay.
It's fun, you know, why not? She has friends with Samantha,
so you know, show.
Speaker 2 (30:54):
Going off the air, Sex in the City. How many
years was it until just like that? When did that?
Speaker 1 (31:00):
Well, the movies were in between, right, So like for me,
it all blends like I have to remind myself of
the actual shifts and breaks that happened because obviously, like
we're there together still, right, so it still feels like
the show, except that we're getting ready to air season
three of it, just like that, and I watched the
first one. I'm like, oh no, these shows are very different.
(31:21):
They're very different. It's so fascinating. You know, same characters,
but the vibe, like the way that we shooted and
the pattern and the timing and kind of the subject matter,
all of it very different. It's super interesting.
Speaker 2 (31:35):
That's so great. That's so great.
Speaker 1 (31:37):
It is it's a very rare situation. But in between,
to answer your question, we did the first film I
think was released in two thousand and eight. I think
we went off the air in like oh four, I
feel like wow. And then so then the movie, the
second movie would have been roughly twenty ten, twenty eleven,
something like that. Then we took a kind of a
(31:57):
long break, but we saw everyone we're saying with your cab,
So you had a through line, you know personally.
Speaker 2 (32:05):
Right right, and what you guys have, what your own
personal lives have evolved. You became mothers, you became wives,
you know, all those things happened to you guys along
the way, which is which is also very exciting because
you do bring that whenever you know, the great director
Peter Brooks said, you know that which is truly personal
as universal, and we're bringing our personal selves to whatever
(32:30):
we are doing as actors. And I think that's really exciting.
I agree, gotten to do that through time.
Speaker 1 (32:37):
I agree, you're a.
Speaker 2 (32:38):
Different woman than when you started this show.
Speaker 1 (32:40):
I mean yes, like we were a little children when
we started this show. Really, you know, we lived lives
like lives multiple It's really fascinating.
Speaker 2 (32:51):
Are you in La?
Speaker 1 (32:52):
I am. I'm in La right now, getting ready to
go back to New York. We're back and forth still,
which is great. I love to be back and forth. Yeah,
I aint't ready to do the press for and just
like that, which is fun but also stressful in this
new streaming world, you know, because it's just like a blast,
like you just blasted out there, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (33:09):
I took a picture of all of the underwear I
had on the years we were going to you know,
when you're going through the Emmys and the Golden Globes
campaign problems I understand.
Speaker 1 (33:20):
But yeah, yeah, yeah, the shoes and.
Speaker 2 (33:22):
The clothes and the underwear. And I was like, oh
my god, I'm doing a show about feminism and look
what I have to put on.
Speaker 1 (33:28):
No joke, no joke.
Speaker 2 (33:31):
I know.
Speaker 1 (33:31):
It's really an interesting thing and sometimes you can go like,
I'm not going to do this. I mean, certainly in
my regular life, I just wore my jeans and my
Adidas and I'm not going to be bothered. But that
is the joy of what we do in a way,
too write, because if you don't do it for a while,
don't you kind of crave the costumes? Yes, exactly, Yeah,
I mean too.
Speaker 2 (33:50):
And I a lot. And you know, because Sex and
the City has also been about fashion, and I didn't
know anything about fashion until I did Masel and I
was like, wow, it's quite a subject and it's really interesting.
Speaker 1 (34:02):
I agree.
Speaker 2 (34:02):
I do think that fashion is the breadcrumbs of the
times we live in. Yeah, I can know a lot
about us from fashion.
Speaker 1 (34:10):
Absolutely, that's a really valid point. And I think our issue,
I think sometimes with Sex and the City is that
it almost seemed like fashion overtook the actual stories, you know,
the actual storylines, and we felt some stress, like it
seemed like we were just trying to sell shoes, which
was really never our intention. It just grew, you know,
(34:31):
and then I think we felt this this this pull
away from that when we came back for just like
that partly based on the stories. Also, like we you know,
there was mourning and death and whatnot. We didn't want
to be like running around and head to toe gucci,
you know, necessarily. So it's interesting because you want to
have the through line be there, but at the same
time we're going through different things, so that's going to
(34:52):
be reflected and what we're wearing. It's always super interesting.
It's always super interesting to think about it.
Speaker 2 (34:57):
It's really funny about on MASL which I never said
in any interviews was and this never has happened, is
that four of the seven regulars were over fifty. Amazing,
amazing and amazing. I'm on a TV show. It's like,
who am I gonna have lunch with? I'm the only
one who's over fifty?
Speaker 1 (35:18):
I understand, Yeah, we're in the same boat over there.
And then just like that.
Speaker 2 (35:22):
Exactly, you're the only one. Then I go, wow, take
a note, you know what I mean? Like this, Yes,
this could take a note. And it wasn't about being
over fifty. No, that it's okay. You could put characters
on the air all different ages, and you don't you know,
there is this feeling that you know, the thirty and
under is where where the pot of gold is. But
(35:42):
maybe fairly maybe.
Speaker 1 (35:45):
And also why can't all the stories get told right exactly?
Why not? You know? I mean, I know, we're so
lucky that we get to do our show. I fully,
fully understand that. But sometimes when people are like, you know,
are you shocked that you know, you ladies who are
over fifty are getting to be on the television, I mean, like,
(36:05):
it's hard not to be offended, like, why wouldn't we
get to be on the television?
Speaker 2 (36:09):
Well? Why because there it hasn't happened for you know what.
Speaker 1 (36:13):
It is messed up. It's just so messed.
Speaker 2 (36:15):
Up, it's so wrong. I remember I actually sold a
television pitch many years ago. I'd never done it before,
for a show that I wanted to see about women.
And we got to the point of having auditions, and
I don't know if you remember this company, Carcy Warner.
Speaker 1 (36:30):
But Marcia, yeah, of course.
Speaker 2 (36:32):
I put a friend of mine down on the list
to come in an audition, and after she had she's
a brilliant actress, and Marcy went like this to me,
what is she thirty? Like that? And I went, no,
she's not, But I said, because I played my daughter
in a play and so I know her, and I went,
but I said, so is the moral of the story
that when you get your period you shed just cut
(36:52):
up your sad card? And she said pretty much that's
what she said.
Speaker 1 (36:57):
Oh my god. I mean it's so I'm saying. But
I do remember as a young actor being so worried
that I wasn't successful. I wasn't successful until I was thirty,
and I was like, well, I'm only going to have
ten more years and it's going to be over. That's it, right,
because that was how we were brandwashed, and.
Speaker 2 (37:16):
Everybody seemed to accept it as a truth exactly. Every
time that truth gets disproved, like by your show or
our show or whatever. Yeah, like so relieved. Not no,
not that they catch up to that truth.
Speaker 1 (37:27):
No, no, I know they forget immediately.
Speaker 2 (37:29):
They forget immediately. But it's like, that's what I want
to see, is like I want to see everybody. I'm
we too. I want to see it all. I want
to see young people and older people and old old
people and yes, the human ex yes, what our.
Speaker 1 (37:42):
Job, yes, yes, yes, God, yes, all right, you're a joy.
Thank you for joining us.
Speaker 2 (37:49):
So great, give my love to everybody.
Speaker 1 (37:51):
Thank you. I will, I will, I will I talked
to Michael soon. Okay, bye, k bye, honey,
Host
Kristin Davis
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