November 19, 2025 • 21 mins
Is Aiden trying to control Carrie or does he genuinely want the best for her? It’s a debate that has been raging for 25 years! Is Aiden actually the better boyfriend. Is he better than Big? Plus, the kiss that left its mark on Charlotte was based on Kristin’s real life — hear the story!
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hi, I'm Kristin Davis, and I want to know are
you a Charlotte? Hi, everybody, welcome to Are You a Charlotte?
I am back with the incredible, knowledgeable, brilliant Alina Waite
for part two of Are You a Charlotte? Rewatching No
ifs ands or butts. All right, now, we have not
(00:24):
talked about all the different things. Let's talk a little
bit more because you know, we like talk about the
macro here.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
I love that about you.
Speaker 1 (00:32):
But I wanted to get your point of view on
Aiden and Carrie. But Aiden especially because obviously at the
time that Aiden showed up, he was like the anti
big yes right when I see his little baby.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
Face, Oh my gosh, hair, I mean.
Speaker 1 (00:48):
Just so adorable. And he was always wearing what he wanted.
I just want to go on record about this because
people really criticized what he wore on just like that.
And I was at his fitting. I had pulled out
some things I had fitting right before him, and they
were like John is coming. I was like, oh, these
clothes are beautiful. So I pulled out all the beautiful things.
I put them together like I was picking outfits for Corbett, right,
and he got there and he was like no, And
(01:09):
I was like, okay, all right, I'm leaving goodbye, right,
and I left Molly with him and he wanted that
narrow jacket thing. That's what he wanted to wear, right,
And then everybody was like, why did Molly Rogers put
him in that? She did not put him in that, right,
Like when he was wearing the double jean in the beginning,
that is Corbett right with the rings. This is Corbett, right,
(01:32):
No one put that on him.
Speaker 3 (01:34):
Well, the child he is supposed to be, like, is
he like a Midwestern type guy?
Speaker 2 (01:37):
I mean, ever say?
Speaker 1 (01:38):
I mean.
Speaker 2 (01:40):
Where Maybe he doesn't say that.
Speaker 1 (01:42):
I don't know, because remember he had been on the
Northern Exposure.
Speaker 2 (01:45):
Okay, I remember that show.
Speaker 3 (01:47):
I mean what I what I liked was the voiceover
is that he's very all American, right, so he's also
something that's been out of a rap Lauren ad you know,
think about it.
Speaker 2 (01:55):
They're wearing the dinner on dinner the turquoise way.
Speaker 1 (01:58):
And he's got his longer hat. The dogs babyface, and
the dog who wants to hunt carry's legs about this.
And he makes.
Speaker 3 (02:05):
Furniture, literally makes furniture, which is so dreamy a chair
that lives in the show long pastes him.
Speaker 1 (02:12):
I had forgotten all of this.
Speaker 3 (02:13):
His chair survives him. I think, you know, I think
I love the introduction of that character. I love how
they introduce him. I love that she says she has
a crush. I love that she has to There's always
going to be a conflict, so I love that she
has to choose to see him and cigarettes. And I
even googled. I said how addictive are cigarettes? And I'm like,
(02:35):
I just googled because I'm not a smokeer, but I saidtive, like,
I mean, yeah, there was like there is addictive as
heroin and like you know, like all other kinds of
the hard drugs.
Speaker 2 (02:45):
So you really feel for her, you know, trying to think.
Speaker 1 (02:48):
About and everything right.
Speaker 3 (02:50):
But what I do appreciate is that she's willing to
say you know what, and all of the girls who
are like, we all hate it.
Speaker 1 (02:56):
We all hate that I forgot about or were like
he's right, yeah, like we put up with it, Like
that's so rare that we're like some guy we've never met.
We're like, yeah, you should listen to him.
Speaker 3 (03:07):
Well, but doesn't even listen. It's more about it's not
a great habit. You know, it's tough, and so I thought,
that's what's so great about that argument is because you
can say, oh, he's being controlling, and so I can
say or he's trying to say, yo, it's not healthy.
Speaker 1 (03:21):
Definitely, absolutely. I mean I feel like.
Speaker 3 (03:23):
Also, if anybody's ever kissed somebody who just tooked a cigarette.
Speaker 1 (03:26):
I'm with you. That's so funny to me. When she
so she gets the cigarette out and he goes, oh,
we have a problem, and then she's like, what she
thinks it's about that she lied that she was a designer,
right to get the chair, but it's not. It's a cigarette.
And he goes, you know, I can't date a smoke her.
And then she's like, oh, I'll just put away. She
turns her back. Then she turns back to him. She's
taken a puff. And then he gets her and then
he goes and it doesn't.
Speaker 2 (03:47):
Even occur to her that she took away.
Speaker 1 (03:49):
She's yeah, And I think some of that is the
nineties New York, like everybody was just smoking. Like when
you see the first season and she goes to that
book party of the justin what's his name? Thank You
Throw's character like he plays two writers. Do you remember
the writers? His first rider is like kind of an ick, like, oh,
(04:11):
now I'm gonna say name, but I shouldn't say name.
He's like one of those, like, you know, super cool
young guy writers. And every one of that party is smoking.
That's what I remember. Yeah, you know, and like on
our set, everybody would smoke. So we'd be in that
small like the sound stage at Silver Cup. I feel
like the ceiling was this low, and like our first
a d would smoke like a chimney start just with smoking.
Speaker 2 (04:33):
Everyone there's just.
Speaker 1 (04:33):
A cloud of smoke, do you know what I mean?
Like all night long, you're just in there.
Speaker 2 (04:38):
You be like outside to breathe. Whoa.
Speaker 1 (04:41):
Yeah, it was a lot. There was a lot. I know.
I just want to talk about Aiden some more. Okay,
I don't know what to make of Aiden when I
look back.
Speaker 3 (04:58):
Oh, I think I think Aiden is actually quite old fashioned.
Speaker 2 (05:04):
In a good way. Yeah, I mean, I think just
in many ways.
Speaker 3 (05:08):
I don't know if it's good or bad, you know,
but I think, and obviously I love I started. It's Netflix,
so the next episode begins, and you know, just kind
of let it all a little bit. But I do
love the episode where he waits to have sex with Carrie.
Speaker 1 (05:22):
I've forgotten about that.
Speaker 2 (05:23):
Yeah, She's a little like what is happening?
Speaker 1 (05:27):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (05:28):
And I think that to me again, what's cool about
the Second the City is that that's why I don't
get too concerned about the politics around certain things, because
it's more about how do I age with the show
rather than how does the show age?
Speaker 2 (05:41):
Interesting because for.
Speaker 3 (05:43):
Me, you know, in my early forties now and watching
a character say, you know what, I want to hold
off on like just jumping in the bed right away.
Speaker 2 (05:50):
I want to really continue to get to know you.
Speaker 3 (05:52):
I want to make sure we have a foundation that's
something now that you can look at and go, oh,
I relate to this. I understand the idea of not
sitting terring sex.
Speaker 2 (06:01):
In a relationship.
Speaker 3 (06:02):
And it shows his maturity and that he's like, look,
I've done the we have sex early and it hasn't
quite worked out, and so he's like, I want this
to work. And I love that She is like, huh now,
I'm like nervous to have because because there's there's an
investment definitely, and I just sort of think that and also,
(06:23):
you know, Ai, I'm talking about Aiden later too, like
when he there's a breakup obviously, and then he comes
back and it's a willingness to forgive, there's a willingness
to keep trying. But I also think because look, I'm
childless by choice, and I think some Aiden was very
determined to be a father, and we see how that
(06:44):
choice affects his life later with Carrie. Yeah, and sometimes
it can be frustrated because you're look at You're like, okay, bruh,
your kids are practically grown, like they're.
Speaker 2 (06:55):
Their own people. How much micro manager do you need
to do? Again?
Speaker 3 (06:58):
You have to have conflicts in TV, not complaining. But
I do think there's this idea if he hadn't been
so concerned with being a father, he might have been
able to be a better partner and a for sure
you know, free version of himself.
Speaker 1 (07:13):
That's so interesting. I like that so much. Yeah, I mean,
I'm gonna, I'm gonna now that I'm back in the
old Aiden, right, Yeah, No, we're early Aiden.
Speaker 2 (07:22):
Early Aiden with.
Speaker 1 (07:23):
That little little baby face of his is so adorable,
and he is so different and the just the energy
that he brings is so different, just it himself. It's
very it's specific and interestingly different.
Speaker 2 (07:37):
Yeah, he's a bit of a hippie and you know,
a free spirit.
Speaker 1 (07:41):
He's got a strength.
Speaker 3 (07:43):
Very grounded, yeah, very comfortable in his skin, yes, yeah,
which is so nice for her, absolutely, Like he wants
her to meet his parents and she's all like what right.
So it's that thing of I love how he's offering
obviously everything Big didn't. And what I really appreciate about
the difference between the two is that Biggest who women won.
(08:04):
Aiden's almost like the person you need and so you
because because Aiden's concerned about her health, right, Big is
like I smoke too, definitely, Big like, I'm not really
trying to commit and she's like, well that's frustrating. And
Aiden's like, how about I buy the apartment next to us.
We can break down that wall and make this a home, right,
And she's like what you know? So it does kind
(08:27):
of push, you know, Carrie or a woman to ask themselves,
wait a minute, what do I actually want? Because the
thing I said I want right right, And that is
something I'm so fascinating.
Speaker 1 (08:41):
And it's so real.
Speaker 2 (08:43):
It's so real, so real.
Speaker 3 (08:44):
Because she literally is having a panic attack with the
with the gag with the wedding gown with him coming
through the wall, and it's like she can't, you know,
keep the track of his dog for the enough time.
So it's just sort of like Carrie. And I think
that's the that's it's interesting because it's a question I
ask in my work on the page and also in
life a lot is what do you actually want? And
(09:06):
I think you know in life, in a relationship, in
your career, and I think people are almost afraid to
say it out loud because then you can't you can't
unsay it. And once you've put it out there, and
also you have to ask yourself, is this what I want?
Or this is what I've been taught to want? Is
(09:27):
this what my parents want? Or is this what society
is telling me I should want what my friends want?
Speaker 2 (09:33):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (09:34):
Or is this what I actually want? And I think
we as individuals have to really decipher what is what
because you've been fed something your whole life, particularly if
you're a woman, particularly if you have a certain class,
if you're a woman of color, because a lot of
times you're raised to be straight, you're raised to be
of a certain religion, you're raised to make money, you're
(09:56):
raised to be successful, and we don't even have our
own definitions what success, what is success and so, And
that's why I even say it goes back to like
how do we handle this? I'm like, you handled it
the best way you could at the time.
Speaker 1 (10:09):
I mean, that's true, that's true. I guess for me,
I I you know, because I'm in it, right, I
was in it then, and I always want us to.
I guess sometimes when I watch it, I'm like, Wow,
it's so great, it's so much better than I remembered.
Sometimes I feel that right, which is of course so
rewarding and amazing. And then sometimes I'm like, hmmm, I
(10:31):
don't know. I know the idea maybe, but I don't
know exactly how that got how that got got fleshed
out well.
Speaker 3 (10:39):
As a person who's on the other side of it,
where we're writing, a lot of times we're under in
terms of like, yeah, we're kind of.
Speaker 2 (10:45):
Stress, so stressed, or an actor can't.
Speaker 3 (10:47):
Do a thing, wants something, and we're trying to do
this and we have to do it quickly. We have
to lose a scene, and you know, and oftentimes with
TV people on us, it's quick.
Speaker 2 (10:57):
Like you have to hurry up and turn the script
around to get it out.
Speaker 1 (11:00):
Third season we did like twenty something or whatever, and
we were you know, it was like kind of the
end of that era in a way. Like I don't
think after that we ever did that many. I think
we did a lot for season, but not that many.
And I think it HBO very rarely said that much
to us, So it wasn't so much that though I
know obviously normally do have notes and yeah, different things, right,
(11:22):
But I think also, and I'm curious your thoughts on this.
You know, the way that we're living now, the way
that we're able to immediately critique everything, line and everything
is kind of like open season, open season and compounded, right,
So like if someone starts complaining about something, everyone kind
of jumps on that bandwagon in a way where they
(11:45):
somehow feel community with each other. Right, what do you
make of that in terms of what we do for
a living.
Speaker 3 (11:53):
Well, I think here's the deal. As artists. We if
a Bob isn't chasing you, you're not doing it job.
Speaker 1 (12:00):
Wow, love it, I'm going to try to.
Speaker 2 (12:06):
Art isn't meant to be kind or to coddle. It's
good point pointople feel comfortable that's a good point.
Speaker 3 (12:12):
A lot of the art that I that has changed
me or has pushed me to want to be a
better artist often comes in very uncomfortable, uneasy packages, and
there's no right or wrong way to handle sensitive content
or material. I think also, I think the real test
(12:33):
is not where a piece of art sits right now,
but how we examine it ten years from now or
twenty years from now. And I think the reason why
you can do a podcast about the show is because
it's still relevant.
Speaker 1 (12:47):
Absolutely, it's such a gift. It's amazing, it's amazing. But
who knew then?
Speaker 3 (12:50):
We didn't really know, because that's how it goes, you
know what I'm saying. I love what you said too.
You said, Oh when when Carrie wound up with Big,
people were outraged, she wound up along people were outraged.
Speaker 1 (13:02):
It's so true. It's so true, so true.
Speaker 3 (13:05):
The truth is an artist has to do what feels
right to them right in that moment, right right right.
Speaker 1 (13:21):
I mean the kissing. All I remember is this. It
was Nicole holoffson Er.
Speaker 2 (13:26):
Do you know her, I mean I know of her, Yes, yeah,
she would come.
Speaker 1 (13:29):
I don't know how we got her to do so
many episodes because she was always trying to do her
own films, right, yeah, exactly, but we would just deal
her in between, and she was so funny and kind
of light about it all, but also sometimes she would
just give crazy direction. And I remember her telling that
guy whose name I could never remember. We would run
into him and said they would be there's that guy,
and I'd be like, which one you like? The one
(13:51):
who licked your face? He's over there. I'd be like,
oh my god, what's his name? We could look up
his name right now, but I just remember standing. That
was before I married Kyle, so I hadn't moved to
Park Avenue. So I'm actually on Central Park West at
an apartment building that I actually looked for an apartment in,
not realizing it was Charlotte's apartment building. This is very meta,
(14:11):
so meta, and I was like, oh god, I can't
live here.
Speaker 2 (14:14):
Like like it's too much.
Speaker 1 (14:16):
If I was just going to work out the door
with that that frilly iron work, this door looks familiar,
and they were like, yeah, you filmed, yeah, the door,
So sorry that you and a number of other things.
I think like other other men have been standing at
that door with me in the beginnings out there, the
husband I know, and just just sampling all kinds of
(14:39):
different people. Wait, was it is it? No Brad the
bad yet Ross Gibby.
Speaker 3 (14:45):
Rosy say in real life he's like, I'm not that bad.
This is I'm sure he was acting that almost.
Speaker 1 (14:50):
Like just like liquor liquor and I would just be like, ah,
it was hard to watch it.
Speaker 2 (14:56):
It was it, yeah, because you're like, yeah, man, that's bad.
Speaker 1 (15:00):
It was bad. It was.
Speaker 3 (15:03):
You need coaching, though I thought was nice because you
were always trying to like you were really trying to
get the guys to.
Speaker 2 (15:11):
Let me help. Yeah, just just like that unless you're.
Speaker 3 (15:15):
Not giving up on the guys straight away. The girls
got like dump.
Speaker 1 (15:21):
Kiss because he does seem really nice. We never see
him other than when he's like my face. But previous
to that, in real life, I had there's a guy
and he had a prominent chin, and I have a
prominent chin, and I had gone to work with like
a like a rug burn on my chin. Wow, you
know when you just really kissed a lot.
Speaker 2 (15:42):
Okay, I've never had rugbun on my chin.
Speaker 1 (15:45):
I couldn't find okay, but you know when you've kissed
a lot, right, sure, yeah, and it's fun. Yeah, yeah,
for sure, for sure, for sure it was like that.
But I had like a like a scrape on my
chin like a kid would get if they fell down.
Speaker 2 (15:58):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (15:59):
Yeah. And it was fun, it was worth it. But
then it was bad at work, do you know what
I mean, to the point where I think they had
to go in and post and fix it.
Speaker 2 (16:08):
Really yeah, it was.
Speaker 1 (16:11):
It's the really embarrassing. It's second season. It's when the
old Man the sex Charlotte has a guy who falls
asleep while she's having sex with him, so she goes.
She gets the girls to go with her to a
workshop given by this older lady who demonstrates on her husband.
Speaker 2 (16:32):
Right, and then that's when bad episode.
Speaker 1 (16:34):
I had like a scab on my chin.
Speaker 2 (16:35):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (16:36):
And I sit in the episode like this, oh see.
So then Michael Patrick had me sit in the coffee
shop of the Kissings with my you don't see it
for the longest time. So I'm listening, I'm listening, I'm listening,
and then I take my hand down there.
Speaker 2 (16:51):
Like wow, I know it's very It was.
Speaker 1 (16:54):
Him writing in something from life, which is bad behavior
on his part.
Speaker 2 (16:57):
I mean it too. Everything is come on, we all
decend us some NOI efron. We just wanted to put
it all in there. That is the goal.
Speaker 1 (17:07):
So embarrassed.
Speaker 2 (17:07):
Real life is better than fiction, that's true. That's true.
Speaker 1 (17:10):
Sometimes it is, but it's so embarrassing when you have
to play something that was your own thing. Which another
time that that happened. I did a play about people
wrongfully convicted and put on death row. Wow, and it
was all based on true stories. And we were downtown
off Broadway, and this interviewer came down to interview me
for the New York Times. I was so excited, right,
and they take your picture like they're not a photo shoot,
(17:32):
like while you're rehearsing, right, And when that piece came
out in the New York Times, there was like a
smudge on my upper lip and it looked like a
like a Hitler little mustache. So Michael Patrick wrote it
in for my engagement pictures. Do you remember this?
Speaker 2 (17:46):
WHOA?
Speaker 1 (17:47):
I like, open the paper and I'm like, oh, oh yeah,
that was from real life.
Speaker 2 (17:52):
Oh wow. You can't tell him anything.
Speaker 1 (17:54):
I know it.
Speaker 2 (17:55):
He'll use it, right, But that's what good writers do,
I know.
Speaker 1 (17:57):
But we learned that. So then if you'd walk over,
we'd be like, get in there, right, and then we
told everybody that was always the writers, which usually it
was the writers right there and there, yeah, but occasionally
it would be so when that. But the thing that
was funny was that Nicole's direction to the guy was like, liquor,
How would I get a rug burn from the tongue?
Speaker 2 (18:17):
I don't.
Speaker 1 (18:18):
I don't think that would happen.
Speaker 3 (18:19):
I just feel like there is a frame where he's
legit sucking on your chance.
Speaker 1 (18:22):
Okay, but eye witness, do you feel like i'd have
like an open wound from that? You didn't bother you?
Speaker 2 (18:29):
Okay, it didn't, But it's very given TV a.
Speaker 1 (18:32):
TV storyline, Yes, yes, yes, on the street even like
we're on the street, what would we be doing? I
mean yeah, yeah. And also I got my actual rug
burn from like a lot of kissing, right, not a
bad kisser, really good kisser. And I'm saying so there
were some similarities, so it.
Speaker 2 (18:54):
All kind of it's all kind of real.
Speaker 1 (18:56):
It is all kind of real. It is all kind
of real because obviously we've all kissed a bad kisser.
Speaker 2 (19:01):
Right, I'm grateful to not have had that experience.
Speaker 1 (19:05):
Actually, women and women are generally I think that they
don't like to make generalizations.
Speaker 2 (19:10):
I haven't.
Speaker 3 (19:10):
I don't know if I can confirm that. I mean,
but I've never had no a bad experience.
Speaker 1 (19:17):
That's nice. Yeah, that's nice. That's nice.
Speaker 2 (19:22):
This is promoting women. This is what they say.
Speaker 1 (19:24):
They're like it. Please go ahead, go ahead, as you
as you brought up earlier. It is something more people
are now considering in the face of Look, because.
Speaker 2 (19:35):
What is what is straight?
Speaker 3 (19:36):
Even like, we're all humans having a human experience? Absolutely
what don't let gender get in the way of your
And that's that's the Miranda your Hello.
Speaker 2 (19:46):
Yeah, don't don't let it get in the way.
Speaker 1 (19:50):
Be open minded, open you live a better life.
Speaker 2 (19:53):
That's absolutely true. I'm a testament to that.
Speaker 1 (19:55):
I think I am too. Yeah, in my own way.
Speaker 3 (19:58):
Hello, yes, yeah, You'll still be still a work in progress,
you don't.
Speaker 2 (20:01):
We all are. Yes.
Speaker 3 (20:02):
You don't have to be partnered, you don't have to
have children, you don't have to get married, you don't
have to do a lot of things society tells you
to do.
Speaker 1 (20:09):
That's right, Lena. We want you every week. We love
it so much.
Speaker 2 (20:17):
You're amazing, You're amazing.
Speaker 1 (20:19):
Thank you for having so wise and wonderful. I'm just
so honored that you're my second repeat, my first repeat,
you're my second you know, to come.
Speaker 2 (20:28):
Twice person, to come a second time, and.
Speaker 1 (20:30):
Rightly so you should have a place of honor.
Speaker 2 (20:34):
Look, I'm honored. You know. I study the show you
studied in real time. I continue to study.
Speaker 1 (20:38):
I know it.
Speaker 2 (20:39):
I love it. You know, it's a joy, and it's
it's a time capsule for us.
Speaker 1 (20:43):
And also I never know what you're going to say,
and I love that so much. You know, I love
that you have a point of view that's unique in
your own and so well studied. Right, It's not like
you're like knee jerk. You're you have a lot of evidence,
you know, a lot of deep thought, and I appreciate
that so much.
Speaker 2 (20:58):
Thank you. I'm gratefully that you'rereciate it.
Speaker 1 (21:02):
When I first as Lena before we started the podcast,
she was like, I say, I wrote to her, you're
an encyclopedia and she was like, well, thank god, someone
wants that.
Speaker 2 (21:09):
That was like, I do I want everybody does?
Speaker 1 (21:13):
I get it? But whatever, I love it.
Speaker 2 (21:15):
I love it. I love you. I love you too.
I know they have to wrap us up.
Speaker 1 (21:20):
We just be here,
Hi, I'm Kristin Davis, and I want to know are
you a Charlotte? Hi, everybody, welcome to Are You a Charlotte?
I am back with the incredible, knowledgeable, brilliant Alina Waite
for part two of Are You a Charlotte? Rewatching No
ifs ands or butts. All right, now, we have not
(00:24):
talked about all the different things. Let's talk a little
bit more because you know, we like talk about the
macro here.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
I love that about you.
Speaker 1 (00:32):
But I wanted to get your point of view on
Aiden and Carrie. But Aiden especially because obviously at the
time that Aiden showed up, he was like the anti
big yes right when I see his little baby.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
Face, Oh my gosh, hair, I mean.
Speaker 1 (00:48):
Just so adorable. And he was always wearing what he wanted.
I just want to go on record about this because
people really criticized what he wore on just like that.
And I was at his fitting. I had pulled out
some things I had fitting right before him, and they
were like John is coming. I was like, oh, these
clothes are beautiful. So I pulled out all the beautiful things.
I put them together like I was picking outfits for Corbett, right,
and he got there and he was like no, And
(01:09):
I was like, okay, all right, I'm leaving goodbye, right,
and I left Molly with him and he wanted that
narrow jacket thing. That's what he wanted to wear, right,
And then everybody was like, why did Molly Rogers put
him in that? She did not put him in that, right,
Like when he was wearing the double jean in the beginning,
that is Corbett right with the rings. This is Corbett, right,
(01:32):
No one put that on him.
Speaker 3 (01:34):
Well, the child he is supposed to be, like, is
he like a Midwestern type guy?
Speaker 2 (01:37):
I mean, ever say?
Speaker 1 (01:38):
I mean.
Speaker 2 (01:40):
Where Maybe he doesn't say that.
Speaker 1 (01:42):
I don't know, because remember he had been on the
Northern Exposure.
Speaker 2 (01:45):
Okay, I remember that show.
Speaker 3 (01:47):
I mean what I what I liked was the voiceover
is that he's very all American, right, so he's also
something that's been out of a rap Lauren ad you know,
think about it.
Speaker 2 (01:55):
They're wearing the dinner on dinner the turquoise way.
Speaker 1 (01:58):
And he's got his longer hat. The dogs babyface, and
the dog who wants to hunt carry's legs about this.
And he makes.
Speaker 3 (02:05):
Furniture, literally makes furniture, which is so dreamy a chair
that lives in the show long pastes him.
Speaker 1 (02:12):
I had forgotten all of this.
Speaker 3 (02:13):
His chair survives him. I think, you know, I think
I love the introduction of that character. I love how
they introduce him. I love that she says she has
a crush. I love that she has to There's always
going to be a conflict, so I love that she
has to choose to see him and cigarettes. And I
even googled. I said how addictive are cigarettes? And I'm like,
(02:35):
I just googled because I'm not a smokeer, but I saidtive, like,
I mean, yeah, there was like there is addictive as
heroin and like you know, like all other kinds of
the hard drugs.
Speaker 2 (02:45):
So you really feel for her, you know, trying to think.
Speaker 1 (02:48):
About and everything right.
Speaker 3 (02:50):
But what I do appreciate is that she's willing to
say you know what, and all of the girls who
are like, we all hate it.
Speaker 1 (02:56):
We all hate that I forgot about or were like
he's right, yeah, like we put up with it, Like
that's so rare that we're like some guy we've never met.
We're like, yeah, you should listen to him.
Speaker 3 (03:07):
Well, but doesn't even listen. It's more about it's not
a great habit. You know, it's tough, and so I thought,
that's what's so great about that argument is because you
can say, oh, he's being controlling, and so I can
say or he's trying to say, yo, it's not healthy.
Speaker 1 (03:21):
Definitely, absolutely. I mean I feel like.
Speaker 3 (03:23):
Also, if anybody's ever kissed somebody who just tooked a cigarette.
Speaker 1 (03:26):
I'm with you. That's so funny to me. When she
so she gets the cigarette out and he goes, oh,
we have a problem, and then she's like, what she
thinks it's about that she lied that she was a designer,
right to get the chair, but it's not. It's a cigarette.
And he goes, you know, I can't date a smoke her.
And then she's like, oh, I'll just put away. She
turns her back. Then she turns back to him. She's
taken a puff. And then he gets her and then
he goes and it doesn't.
Speaker 2 (03:47):
Even occur to her that she took away.
Speaker 1 (03:49):
She's yeah, And I think some of that is the
nineties New York, like everybody was just smoking. Like when
you see the first season and she goes to that
book party of the justin what's his name? Thank You
Throw's character like he plays two writers. Do you remember
the writers? His first rider is like kind of an ick, like, oh,
(04:11):
now I'm gonna say name, but I shouldn't say name.
He's like one of those, like, you know, super cool
young guy writers. And every one of that party is smoking.
That's what I remember. Yeah, you know, and like on
our set, everybody would smoke. So we'd be in that
small like the sound stage at Silver Cup. I feel
like the ceiling was this low, and like our first
a d would smoke like a chimney start just with smoking.
Speaker 2 (04:33):
Everyone there's just.
Speaker 1 (04:33):
A cloud of smoke, do you know what I mean?
Like all night long, you're just in there.
Speaker 2 (04:38):
You be like outside to breathe. Whoa.
Speaker 1 (04:41):
Yeah, it was a lot. There was a lot. I know.
I just want to talk about Aiden some more. Okay,
I don't know what to make of Aiden when I
look back.
Speaker 3 (04:58):
Oh, I think I think Aiden is actually quite old fashioned.
Speaker 2 (05:04):
In a good way. Yeah, I mean, I think just
in many ways.
Speaker 3 (05:08):
I don't know if it's good or bad, you know,
but I think, and obviously I love I started. It's Netflix,
so the next episode begins, and you know, just kind
of let it all a little bit. But I do
love the episode where he waits to have sex with Carrie.
Speaker 1 (05:22):
I've forgotten about that.
Speaker 2 (05:23):
Yeah, She's a little like what is happening?
Speaker 1 (05:27):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (05:28):
And I think that to me again, what's cool about
the Second the City is that that's why I don't
get too concerned about the politics around certain things, because
it's more about how do I age with the show
rather than how does the show age?
Speaker 2 (05:41):
Interesting because for.
Speaker 3 (05:43):
Me, you know, in my early forties now and watching
a character say, you know what, I want to hold
off on like just jumping in the bed right away.
Speaker 2 (05:50):
I want to really continue to get to know you.
Speaker 3 (05:52):
I want to make sure we have a foundation that's
something now that you can look at and go, oh,
I relate to this. I understand the idea of not
sitting terring sex.
Speaker 2 (06:01):
In a relationship.
Speaker 3 (06:02):
And it shows his maturity and that he's like, look,
I've done the we have sex early and it hasn't
quite worked out, and so he's like, I want this
to work. And I love that She is like, huh now,
I'm like nervous to have because because there's there's an
investment definitely, and I just sort of think that and also,
(06:23):
you know, Ai, I'm talking about Aiden later too, like
when he there's a breakup obviously, and then he comes
back and it's a willingness to forgive, there's a willingness
to keep trying. But I also think because look, I'm
childless by choice, and I think some Aiden was very
determined to be a father, and we see how that
(06:44):
choice affects his life later with Carrie. Yeah, and sometimes
it can be frustrated because you're look at You're like, okay, bruh,
your kids are practically grown, like they're.
Speaker 2 (06:55):
Their own people. How much micro manager do you need
to do? Again?
Speaker 3 (06:58):
You have to have conflicts in TV, not complaining. But
I do think there's this idea if he hadn't been
so concerned with being a father, he might have been
able to be a better partner and a for sure
you know, free version of himself.
Speaker 1 (07:13):
That's so interesting. I like that so much. Yeah, I mean,
I'm gonna, I'm gonna now that I'm back in the
old Aiden, right, Yeah, No, we're early Aiden.
Speaker 2 (07:22):
Early Aiden with.
Speaker 1 (07:23):
That little little baby face of his is so adorable,
and he is so different and the just the energy
that he brings is so different, just it himself. It's
very it's specific and interestingly different.
Speaker 2 (07:37):
Yeah, he's a bit of a hippie and you know,
a free spirit.
Speaker 1 (07:41):
He's got a strength.
Speaker 3 (07:43):
Very grounded, yeah, very comfortable in his skin, yes, yeah,
which is so nice for her, absolutely, Like he wants
her to meet his parents and she's all like what right.
So it's that thing of I love how he's offering
obviously everything Big didn't. And what I really appreciate about
the difference between the two is that Biggest who women won.
(08:04):
Aiden's almost like the person you need and so you
because because Aiden's concerned about her health, right, Big is
like I smoke too, definitely, Big like, I'm not really
trying to commit and she's like, well that's frustrating. And
Aiden's like, how about I buy the apartment next to us.
We can break down that wall and make this a home, right,
And she's like what you know? So it does kind
(08:27):
of push, you know, Carrie or a woman to ask themselves,
wait a minute, what do I actually want? Because the
thing I said I want right right, And that is
something I'm so fascinating.
Speaker 1 (08:41):
And it's so real.
Speaker 2 (08:43):
It's so real, so real.
Speaker 3 (08:44):
Because she literally is having a panic attack with the
with the gag with the wedding gown with him coming
through the wall, and it's like she can't, you know,
keep the track of his dog for the enough time.
So it's just sort of like Carrie. And I think
that's the that's it's interesting because it's a question I
ask in my work on the page and also in
life a lot is what do you actually want? And
(09:06):
I think you know in life, in a relationship, in
your career, and I think people are almost afraid to
say it out loud because then you can't you can't
unsay it. And once you've put it out there, and
also you have to ask yourself, is this what I want?
Or this is what I've been taught to want? Is
(09:27):
this what my parents want? Or is this what society
is telling me I should want what my friends want?
Speaker 2 (09:33):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (09:34):
Or is this what I actually want? And I think
we as individuals have to really decipher what is what
because you've been fed something your whole life, particularly if
you're a woman, particularly if you have a certain class,
if you're a woman of color, because a lot of
times you're raised to be straight, you're raised to be
of a certain religion, you're raised to make money, you're
(09:56):
raised to be successful, and we don't even have our
own definitions what success, what is success and so, And
that's why I even say it goes back to like
how do we handle this? I'm like, you handled it
the best way you could at the time.
Speaker 1 (10:09):
I mean, that's true, that's true. I guess for me,
I I you know, because I'm in it, right, I
was in it then, and I always want us to.
I guess sometimes when I watch it, I'm like, Wow,
it's so great, it's so much better than I remembered.
Sometimes I feel that right, which is of course so
rewarding and amazing. And then sometimes I'm like, hmmm, I
(10:31):
don't know. I know the idea maybe, but I don't
know exactly how that got how that got got fleshed
out well.
Speaker 3 (10:39):
As a person who's on the other side of it,
where we're writing, a lot of times we're under in
terms of like, yeah, we're kind of.
Speaker 2 (10:45):
Stress, so stressed, or an actor can't.
Speaker 3 (10:47):
Do a thing, wants something, and we're trying to do
this and we have to do it quickly. We have
to lose a scene, and you know, and oftentimes with
TV people on us, it's quick.
Speaker 2 (10:57):
Like you have to hurry up and turn the script
around to get it out.
Speaker 1 (11:00):
Third season we did like twenty something or whatever, and
we were you know, it was like kind of the
end of that era in a way. Like I don't
think after that we ever did that many. I think
we did a lot for season, but not that many.
And I think it HBO very rarely said that much
to us, So it wasn't so much that though I
know obviously normally do have notes and yeah, different things, right,
(11:22):
But I think also, and I'm curious your thoughts on this.
You know, the way that we're living now, the way
that we're able to immediately critique everything, line and everything
is kind of like open season, open season and compounded, right,
So like if someone starts complaining about something, everyone kind
of jumps on that bandwagon in a way where they
(11:45):
somehow feel community with each other. Right, what do you
make of that in terms of what we do for
a living.
Speaker 3 (11:53):
Well, I think here's the deal. As artists. We if
a Bob isn't chasing you, you're not doing it job.
Speaker 1 (12:00):
Wow, love it, I'm going to try to.
Speaker 2 (12:06):
Art isn't meant to be kind or to coddle. It's
good point pointople feel comfortable that's a good point.
Speaker 3 (12:12):
A lot of the art that I that has changed
me or has pushed me to want to be a
better artist often comes in very uncomfortable, uneasy packages, and
there's no right or wrong way to handle sensitive content
or material. I think also, I think the real test
(12:33):
is not where a piece of art sits right now,
but how we examine it ten years from now or
twenty years from now. And I think the reason why
you can do a podcast about the show is because
it's still relevant.
Speaker 1 (12:47):
Absolutely, it's such a gift. It's amazing, it's amazing. But
who knew then?
Speaker 3 (12:50):
We didn't really know, because that's how it goes, you
know what I'm saying. I love what you said too.
You said, Oh when when Carrie wound up with Big,
people were outraged, she wound up along people were outraged.
Speaker 1 (13:02):
It's so true. It's so true, so true.
Speaker 3 (13:05):
The truth is an artist has to do what feels
right to them right in that moment, right right right.
Speaker 1 (13:21):
I mean the kissing. All I remember is this. It
was Nicole holoffson Er.
Speaker 2 (13:26):
Do you know her, I mean I know of her, Yes, yeah,
she would come.
Speaker 1 (13:29):
I don't know how we got her to do so
many episodes because she was always trying to do her
own films, right, yeah, exactly, but we would just deal
her in between, and she was so funny and kind
of light about it all, but also sometimes she would
just give crazy direction. And I remember her telling that
guy whose name I could never remember. We would run
into him and said they would be there's that guy,
and I'd be like, which one you like? The one
(13:51):
who licked your face? He's over there. I'd be like,
oh my god, what's his name? We could look up
his name right now, but I just remember standing. That
was before I married Kyle, so I hadn't moved to
Park Avenue. So I'm actually on Central Park West at
an apartment building that I actually looked for an apartment in,
not realizing it was Charlotte's apartment building. This is very meta,
(14:11):
so meta, and I was like, oh god, I can't
live here.
Speaker 2 (14:14):
Like like it's too much.
Speaker 1 (14:16):
If I was just going to work out the door
with that that frilly iron work, this door looks familiar,
and they were like, yeah, you filmed, yeah, the door,
So sorry that you and a number of other things.
I think like other other men have been standing at
that door with me in the beginnings out there, the
husband I know, and just just sampling all kinds of
(14:39):
different people. Wait, was it is it? No Brad the
bad yet Ross Gibby.
Speaker 3 (14:45):
Rosy say in real life he's like, I'm not that bad.
This is I'm sure he was acting that almost.
Speaker 1 (14:50):
Like just like liquor liquor and I would just be like, ah,
it was hard to watch it.
Speaker 2 (14:56):
It was it, yeah, because you're like, yeah, man, that's bad.
Speaker 1 (15:00):
It was bad. It was.
Speaker 3 (15:03):
You need coaching, though I thought was nice because you
were always trying to like you were really trying to
get the guys to.
Speaker 2 (15:11):
Let me help. Yeah, just just like that unless you're.
Speaker 3 (15:15):
Not giving up on the guys straight away. The girls
got like dump.
Speaker 1 (15:21):
Kiss because he does seem really nice. We never see
him other than when he's like my face. But previous
to that, in real life, I had there's a guy
and he had a prominent chin, and I have a
prominent chin, and I had gone to work with like
a like a rug burn on my chin. Wow, you
know when you just really kissed a lot.
Speaker 2 (15:42):
Okay, I've never had rugbun on my chin.
Speaker 1 (15:45):
I couldn't find okay, but you know when you've kissed
a lot, right, sure, yeah, and it's fun. Yeah, yeah,
for sure, for sure, for sure it was like that.
But I had like a like a scrape on my
chin like a kid would get if they fell down.
Speaker 2 (15:58):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (15:59):
Yeah. And it was fun, it was worth it. But
then it was bad at work, do you know what
I mean, to the point where I think they had
to go in and post and fix it.
Speaker 2 (16:08):
Really yeah, it was.
Speaker 1 (16:11):
It's the really embarrassing. It's second season. It's when the
old Man the sex Charlotte has a guy who falls
asleep while she's having sex with him, so she goes.
She gets the girls to go with her to a
workshop given by this older lady who demonstrates on her husband.
Speaker 2 (16:32):
Right, and then that's when bad episode.
Speaker 1 (16:34):
I had like a scab on my chin.
Speaker 2 (16:35):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (16:36):
And I sit in the episode like this, oh see.
So then Michael Patrick had me sit in the coffee
shop of the Kissings with my you don't see it
for the longest time. So I'm listening, I'm listening, I'm listening,
and then I take my hand down there.
Speaker 2 (16:51):
Like wow, I know it's very It was.
Speaker 1 (16:54):
Him writing in something from life, which is bad behavior
on his part.
Speaker 2 (16:57):
I mean it too. Everything is come on, we all
decend us some NOI efron. We just wanted to put
it all in there. That is the goal.
Speaker 1 (17:07):
So embarrassed.
Speaker 2 (17:07):
Real life is better than fiction, that's true. That's true.
Speaker 1 (17:10):
Sometimes it is, but it's so embarrassing when you have
to play something that was your own thing. Which another
time that that happened. I did a play about people
wrongfully convicted and put on death row. Wow, and it
was all based on true stories. And we were downtown
off Broadway, and this interviewer came down to interview me
for the New York Times. I was so excited, right,
and they take your picture like they're not a photo shoot,
(17:32):
like while you're rehearsing, right, And when that piece came
out in the New York Times, there was like a
smudge on my upper lip and it looked like a
like a Hitler little mustache. So Michael Patrick wrote it
in for my engagement pictures. Do you remember this?
Speaker 2 (17:46):
WHOA?
Speaker 1 (17:47):
I like, open the paper and I'm like, oh, oh yeah,
that was from real life.
Speaker 2 (17:52):
Oh wow. You can't tell him anything.
Speaker 1 (17:54):
I know it.
Speaker 2 (17:55):
He'll use it, right, But that's what good writers do,
I know.
Speaker 1 (17:57):
But we learned that. So then if you'd walk over,
we'd be like, get in there, right, and then we
told everybody that was always the writers, which usually it
was the writers right there and there, yeah, but occasionally
it would be so when that. But the thing that
was funny was that Nicole's direction to the guy was like, liquor,
How would I get a rug burn from the tongue?
Speaker 2 (18:17):
I don't.
Speaker 1 (18:18):
I don't think that would happen.
Speaker 3 (18:19):
I just feel like there is a frame where he's
legit sucking on your chance.
Speaker 1 (18:22):
Okay, but eye witness, do you feel like i'd have
like an open wound from that? You didn't bother you?
Speaker 2 (18:29):
Okay, it didn't, But it's very given TV a.
Speaker 1 (18:32):
TV storyline, Yes, yes, yes, on the street even like
we're on the street, what would we be doing? I
mean yeah, yeah. And also I got my actual rug
burn from like a lot of kissing, right, not a
bad kisser, really good kisser. And I'm saying so there
were some similarities, so it.
Speaker 2 (18:54):
All kind of it's all kind of real.
Speaker 1 (18:56):
It is all kind of real. It is all kind
of real because obviously we've all kissed a bad kisser.
Speaker 2 (19:01):
Right, I'm grateful to not have had that experience.
Speaker 1 (19:05):
Actually, women and women are generally I think that they
don't like to make generalizations.
Speaker 2 (19:10):
I haven't.
Speaker 3 (19:10):
I don't know if I can confirm that. I mean,
but I've never had no a bad experience.
Speaker 1 (19:17):
That's nice. Yeah, that's nice. That's nice.
Speaker 2 (19:22):
This is promoting women. This is what they say.
Speaker 1 (19:24):
They're like it. Please go ahead, go ahead, as you
as you brought up earlier. It is something more people
are now considering in the face of Look, because.
Speaker 2 (19:35):
What is what is straight?
Speaker 3 (19:36):
Even like, we're all humans having a human experience? Absolutely
what don't let gender get in the way of your
And that's that's the Miranda your Hello.
Speaker 2 (19:46):
Yeah, don't don't let it get in the way.
Speaker 1 (19:50):
Be open minded, open you live a better life.
Speaker 2 (19:53):
That's absolutely true. I'm a testament to that.
Speaker 1 (19:55):
I think I am too. Yeah, in my own way.
Speaker 3 (19:58):
Hello, yes, yeah, You'll still be still a work in progress,
you don't.
Speaker 2 (20:01):
We all are. Yes.
Speaker 3 (20:02):
You don't have to be partnered, you don't have to
have children, you don't have to get married, you don't
have to do a lot of things society tells you
to do.
Speaker 1 (20:09):
That's right, Lena. We want you every week. We love
it so much.
Speaker 2 (20:17):
You're amazing, You're amazing.
Speaker 1 (20:19):
Thank you for having so wise and wonderful. I'm just
so honored that you're my second repeat, my first repeat,
you're my second you know, to come.
Speaker 2 (20:28):
Twice person, to come a second time, and.
Speaker 1 (20:30):
Rightly so you should have a place of honor.
Speaker 2 (20:34):
Look, I'm honored. You know. I study the show you
studied in real time. I continue to study.
Speaker 1 (20:38):
I know it.
Speaker 2 (20:39):
I love it. You know, it's a joy, and it's
it's a time capsule for us.
Speaker 1 (20:43):
And also I never know what you're going to say,
and I love that so much. You know, I love
that you have a point of view that's unique in
your own and so well studied. Right, It's not like
you're like knee jerk. You're you have a lot of evidence,
you know, a lot of deep thought, and I appreciate
that so much.
Speaker 2 (20:58):
Thank you. I'm gratefully that you'rereciate it.
Speaker 1 (21:02):
When I first as Lena before we started the podcast,
she was like, I say, I wrote to her, you're
an encyclopedia and she was like, well, thank god, someone
wants that.
Speaker 2 (21:09):
That was like, I do I want everybody does?
Speaker 1 (21:13):
I get it? But whatever, I love it.
Speaker 2 (21:15):
I love it. I love you. I love you too.
I know they have to wrap us up.
Speaker 1 (21:20):
We just be here,
Host
Kristin Davis
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