August 28, 2025 • 30 mins
What happens when you are a writer with no fashion sense and start working on Sex and the City... Game changer! How this job helped rearrange her closet.
Plus, why Cindy and the cast had to go backstage at a Cher concert to speak with her.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hi, I'm Kristin Davis, and I want to know are
you a Charlotte? Everybody, welcome back to Are You a Charlotte?
We are here with the amazing and so brilliant Cindy Shoepack,
our writer and producer of Sex and the City, to
discuss part two of Evolution nineteen ninety nine. Okay, let's
(00:24):
talk about the others. Okay. This is when I also
feel and I felt this way also the last episode,
which is when we're getting pedicures talking about the classes,
class and cast system. I feel like our group scenes
are like really coming together now kind of for the
first time in a way like they've been kind together.
Like you remember when we shot it at a restaurant,
we had the pepper Mill. That was one first season
(00:45):
where I'm like, oh, that's working. Like you know, the
group scenes were so challenging to write and they had
to really like we would work on those things all
day long and we had to run those lines and run.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
Those lines, and then the film the scene over and over.
Speaker 1 (00:58):
Now, yes, and the timing of any but.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
Those are my favorite scenes, are they really? I mean
I love the scenes of you guys all together and
just you know, breaking down. Well, I love a lot
about the series, but those were like so fun for me.
They seemed really fun to write and to watch because
in a way, when I wrote those essays about dating,
like for Glamour, they would want you to end on
(01:21):
some kind of revelation about some advice. And what was
fun about writing the four of You is you could
just dissect an issue and you could all four have
different perspectives and nobody was right and nobody was really wrong,
and so it was like commiserating and that's my favorite
thing toct and do. So those scenes were just fine
to like. And sometimes I would be surprising what like
you would think Charlie would think about this and what
(01:42):
she did think of.
Speaker 1 (01:43):
Oh, definitely, everyone surprises almost all the time, which I
think is great and that's the joy, you know, that's
the joy, And that's also you're right, It is a
unique unique to the show that there'd be four characters
with distinct viewpoints that are friends and that can freely
that it's like they have an agreement. Yes, we're just
going to really discuss it all and not say that
(02:03):
there isn't judgment. There is occasionally judgment or like no
don't do that, you know, then people just go ahead
and do it, and we're still there for each other.
It's not like we're going to be like, well I
didn't agree with that.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
Yeah, you know what I mean, I told you that.
Speaker 1 (02:13):
Ye right, no, thank god, thank god, thank god. But yeah,
it's interesting to think back on it, you know, the
things that made it unique. It's interesting. And in this
particular scene we talk about fertility, which is fun, and
I say, I have a tilted uterush and Miranda tells
us about her her lazy ovary, which I don't even
know if they use that term anymore. It's kind of interesting.
(02:35):
Do you think.
Speaker 2 (02:36):
I think they might, but I don't know for sure.
Speaker 1 (02:38):
I don't know either. It seems not very scientific.
Speaker 2 (02:41):
That's why that started on the cologists table, this episode
with them, which was so.
Speaker 1 (02:46):
Great because Pam Thomas, again the director, is so visual
and she's just got a shot above of Cynthia because
it's so awkward. We've all been to and you're going
to see Charlotte at the gun Collegist. But Pam just
had such a creative way of filming.
Speaker 2 (02:59):
Yeah, and like how Cynthia is just looking up and
talking to the person who's like inside exactly and then
taking them and having to describe she's not on birth
control because her relationship ended, Like you get too much anyway,
it's so a lot I love about how.
Speaker 1 (03:13):
Relatable, so relatable and so great. So then we talk
about so this is when Carrie wants to leave things
at bigs. People talk to me about this, which I
find really interesting.
Speaker 2 (03:24):
I thought it was who Christy Brinkley, Oh, Christy Brinkley,
thought that was Carrie pushing the shed. I saw that
clip on tik talk and it was interesting to me.
Speaker 1 (03:36):
Can I tell you that I kind of wanted to
push back a little, but I love Christy and I
respect Christy, and I didn't want to because she was
talking about her daughters and watching with her daughters. I
just felt like it was a little delicate to push back.
But I kind of wanted to say, like, you know,
Carrie puts up with a lot, like way more than
(03:57):
Big puts up with.
Speaker 2 (04:00):
Not air dryer.
Speaker 1 (04:03):
Is that so bad?
Speaker 2 (04:05):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (04:05):
I don't think so, you know, but I didn't want
I didn't want to because I felt like I'm always
so appreciative when people come on and talk about their.
Speaker 2 (04:13):
Own and I love hearing the different perspectives, and I
thought that was interesting to think of it that way
when I just felt like she was so gingerly trying
to like leave with something I know. But yeah, it's
interesting that like she was pushing. Maybe Christy knew more
than we did that it.
Speaker 1 (04:27):
Was not everybody knows their own experience, I guess, but
like for me, I'm like Harrie's like bending her whole
self around who that man wants her to be or
trying you know, yeah, with middling success, and she holds
so much in that I feel like when she does
finally speak, sometimes it does come out, you know, with
(04:48):
a lot of drama or whatever, because she's been shoving
it down, shoving it down, shoving it down, and not
really free like he he is, so you know, obviously
doesn't want her to be doing the things she wants
to do. Like at one point, doesn't she say something
to him like, you know, like people in a relationship,
do you know what do you think people should be doing?
(05:09):
Like don't you think this is normal? And he goes, no,
I think we're doing exactly what people. You know, I'm.
Speaker 2 (05:13):
Totally happy with what we're doing. Because he is happy yeah,
and he wants that situation. Actually two apartments, we can
be together. She wanted to be together, but she.
Speaker 1 (05:21):
Feels like she needs to look good in the morning,
and yeah for him. Also, you don't even trying to say, like,
you know, she's trying to look amazing for him. And
so she wants her little baby, tiny hair dryer that
I've literally never seen this tinier hair dryer in my life.
She wants to leave it at his house. Like, I
just think he's so mean sometimes, you know.
Speaker 2 (05:38):
Obviously I guess I could see I like that because
I felt like I could see both sides definitely, But
I mean it did. When he comes back with her stuff,
like you left this stuff at my house, it just
looks really sad Teflon For relationships, they were really fun
to watch in that though.
Speaker 1 (05:53):
I think, I mean they are because it does have
we're at the point now, luckily, because the first reason
I was like, biggest, awful, biggest horrible, what the heck?
Because I never looked at it ever objectively, you know,
first of all was in it. I would just read
the script with excitement every time. Of course, I loved
Big because I was Charlotte and Charlotte loved Big, like
it wouldn't occur to me to peel away that level
(06:14):
and think about, well, how does Kristin feel about Big?
I never asked that question. Who cares right doesn't matter.
But also I also feel in the nineties where we
were in New York, especially if you were dating a
guy like that, you expected him to be withholding. Yeah,
that was normal.
Speaker 2 (06:31):
I mean, I think I didn't have the self esteem
to be very objective about any of this. Of course
she tried it right too, But I think as a writer,
I have to like love all the characters anyway, like
I have to see what's lovable and see what's right
about their perspective. And so I kind of felt that way,
(06:52):
I guess all along, like I wasn't being objective about
it was hard to be objective about Lizzie treating or badly,
or issue stepping or anything. I kind of get it all,
you know, exactly.
Speaker 1 (07:01):
And you're just trying to be real and relatable and
the tell the truth of the stories as you are
experiencing them. It's a really good point. It's not our
job to be objective. I mean, it's interesting now because
now all these many years later, obviously we're looking back
at what we created, but also now there's social media
where everyone's putting their thing.
Speaker 2 (07:19):
Thank good we didn't have that. Good I am going
to say, thank god we did not have that. I mean,
I often think I'm glad that communication was what it
was then because like I still find like writing into scripts,
texting and everything that's going on now just like not
as fun as just people talking about it. And yes,
in real life they wouldn't necessarily go over there or
call each other, but it was just fun not to
(07:40):
have that option for us.
Speaker 1 (07:42):
I agree.
Speaker 2 (07:42):
And then same about the instant feedback, Like I think
even when I worked on Modern Family, like we they
would like watch the tweets and while the show was
airing and see if people were laughing at lines, and
it was It's just it was nice to be trying
to I mean, I remember Michael saying, like we're doing
maybe Jenny told me. I think Michael that we're making
(08:04):
the show like the network doesn't have a lot of
input other than like make it deeper, make it more complicated.
Same with you guys, like those questions like I think
maybe my character did that, But he was like, we're
making the show that we would enjoy watching, and that
was really what we were doing and hoping that that
was something other people would enjoy watching too. But it
was kind of like, not based on what we thought
(08:25):
everybody wanted to hear.
Speaker 1 (08:26):
It's pure, it's pure, and that was the joy of
it because we at the time the model was network TV,
where they were trying to please advertisers, right, and everything
was advertiser based, which was why they couldn't kind of
push the envelope in different ways. Yeah, which was then
the birth of HBO as we then came to know
it obviously that they could do whatever they wanted. They
were subscription based. Now we're in this whole other world
(08:49):
of streaming everything being available all the time at once
and then everyone looking at literally what everyone says, yeah,
and clickbait being in yeah, which is yeah, I mean all,
it's all very different. Okay, let's talk about just Butterman, right.
(09:17):
So here we are, Charlotte is on a date, but
she doesn't know she's on a date. She's wearing her glasses,
which is funny. They go to see a Broadway show
and they discuss Betty Buckley she has, which fully made
me laugh. And I loved it. And she's with a
very handsome guy. He's played by Dan Futterman. His name
is Stephan or Stephan, Yes, Stefan am I saying it right? Good?
And then we were walking and talking and you know,
(09:40):
Charlotte seems oddly relaxed. She's not on her normal date
vibe right, Yeah, but yet it's a beautiful night. You know,
it looks great, he looks great.
Speaker 2 (09:48):
Whatever.
Speaker 1 (09:49):
She's talking about the show. And then they get to
the cab and then he grabs her and kisses her
and she gets in the cabin. She's just staring at
him like what the glass?
Speaker 2 (09:56):
I touched my glasses right, which is really funny. That's
the beginning to see you though, like see Charlotte. Yeah,
how we wouldn't have really thought about how she's different
with a guy she doesn't think she's on a date
with because we've mostly only seen you on dates, so
we're either with the girlfriends or on date. But you
were kind of like, yeah, like you'd be with girlfriends. Yeah,
it's so nice. It was a nice little lesson, I
(10:19):
mean reminder that like maybe we should just be that way.
Speaker 1 (10:21):
One So then we go to lunch, No sorry, I
read a bar at a bar with the ladies, and
I'm telling them that I'm confused about this guy. Is
he gay? Is he straight? And they we have a
conversation where we talk about gay straight A straight gay man. Yeah,
it's a new term of heterosexual males spawned in Manhattan
(10:41):
as the result of overexposure to fashion, exotic cuisine, and
musical theater and antique.
Speaker 2 (10:48):
Furniture, every stereotype. Anyway, can we talk about Miranda's So Miranda, Well,
first of all, I love yes, I love Charlotte in
this whole thing, and like that was a sexy love
scene that you and Dan Fetterman did.
Speaker 1 (11:04):
Thank you, Like it was like a really beautiful Thomas
really really planned it out. And I think that's my
first sex scene ever. That's like a beautiful sex scene.
I think there were little hits, like there's that one
time in the first season where I'm trying to get
this duded and job and they wanted me to do
it over the sheets, and I had to hide in
my trailer and my dressing room and like wait, like
call Dave in La, my manager, and say, like help me.
(11:26):
They want me to do something over the sheees that's
like soick and cringe to use the word. And then
I put it under the sheets. But like that was
like a joke, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2 (11:34):
That's the thing, Like most of our sex scenes were
for comedy, right, and weren't I heard you talking to
some guest about the male gaze. It wasn't because it
wasn't royalistic. Really, it was usually a story point of
some sort and we didn't really linger on it, right.
And that story point though in this one, was that
like she wasn't sure about him and what and then
it's this great sex, really intimate, beautiful right sex, So
(11:57):
that was important there.
Speaker 1 (11:58):
And it was super important, so beautifully done. And she
had come to me early because I hadn't really done
the sex scenes, right, yeah, And I hadn't showed any body,
and I don't feel like there was a ton of body.
But she had a whole plan about the camera being
over us on a track and I remember it all,
and of course Betterman made me feel so much better
because I was super nervous just about my body and
whatever and everyone it made it. It was so easy
(12:22):
because he's such a good actor and Cam had such
a specific plan and was so calm about it. So
even without intimacy coordinators, which we do discuss all the
time that we didn't have them, it was so comfortable
as much as they can be.
Speaker 2 (12:35):
Yeah, she's a good director director, like just making you
know what you were up to.
Speaker 1 (12:40):
And also I think because she'd come from commercials, I
think was the thing I remember, so she was so visual,
but yet she shared that with us.
Speaker 2 (12:48):
Yeah, and she brought it in like simple, like other
screen grabs of other things that were she was using
his references like there's one time where she goes from
your bed I think too, Samantha's bed over the shit.
She was super smart that there's some beautiful there's some
beautiful directing.
Speaker 1 (13:02):
And also that's what we needed to get everything started
to be tied in and as it goes that you
can see that developing episode by episode, right, And she
did a beautiful job. I at the time was like, wait,
are those my likes? No, those are those are kidists.
They're very beautiful here, but like so so beautifully beautifully done.
So wait, wait, let's go back to the thing at
(13:23):
the bar. This is when Carrie holds up the tiny
fendy bag. People talk a lot about the Fendy bag
it's and how you know what a great partnership that
turned out to be? Yes, and Sarah Jessica said, you know,
it's literally just because that's who would send her some bags.
Speaker 2 (13:37):
Well, now that she didn't love I'm sorry about that
because I you know, I grew up in Oklahoma. I
had no fashion sense, still probably don't have the greatest.
But I learned so much on the show. But when
I wrote that episode, which was only the second episode
I ever wrote, I think I wrote in it was
like her little coach bag or something, and I remember
pat Field was like, don't just leave it to us.
(14:02):
I needed to made a small vision of like the hierarchy.
Speaker 1 (14:08):
Can I tell you that that continued until the end
of it, just like that. The girls would write something
in and Molly would be like, no, no, yeah, it's
so cute and funny though, but I mean, how could
you know?
Speaker 2 (14:23):
Yeah, But that was the perfect back because the point
was like she didn't have to carry a big bag.
It was his leads.
Speaker 1 (14:28):
Fantastic and it was also so cute and it's so
sweet that like she's trying to you know, it's so
cute that she wants to leave the things. Okay, So
then we're there wait at Carrie's apartment. It comes over
for drinks. The girls wait and returns, oh, yeah, that's horrible.
When he brings that bag back, I've skipped ahead somehow,
but they talk about yeah, to talk about it, and
(14:49):
then she said she meant to leave it. And then
and then she asked, oh, this is the thing that
I was saying earlier she has about the ideal living
situation for their relationship, and he responds, exactly what we have.
And then he is this. He has his place, she
has her place. They see each other when they want,
and then they get to be alone they when they want.
And I just love sir Jessica's acting so much because
(15:10):
whenever he does do these things, you could just see
so many things going through her mind and her heart.
Speaker 2 (15:16):
You know what I mean. And she doesn't say then
say like just sucks, and he's so right. But also
that voiceover, I still I stand by that voiceover afterward
when she says, ever since men heard about Woody Ellen
waving across the park to Mia Pharaoh.
Speaker 1 (15:31):
He goes, so we're like Woody and I remember before Sunny,
I remember this like it was yesterday. Do you remember
that whole article where you were just like what it
must have been Fanny Fair. You're just like, what would
they do? What? And she can only wear a beige?
Like what? And I think we talked about it every day,
were like But also I.
Speaker 2 (15:51):
Still think that fantasy of like living sort of separately
but you know, having your own space but being able
to be together.
Speaker 1 (15:56):
It's great. It's just not a great example because it
really didn't go well, yeah, well they really didn't go
it's right.
Speaker 2 (16:02):
So it's very fascinating.
Speaker 1 (16:05):
But I think it's a lot like the sleep marriage situation.
It's a little bit like that. That's the current today
version where you're married but you're not sleeping in the
bed together. And some people think that's amazing, and some
people think that's.
Speaker 2 (16:18):
Someone who told me, like she realized when she had
a king sized bed with her first husband that she
should never have that big a bed and she should
have a queen size bed. They should be that close.
Speaker 1 (16:26):
Well, and I was like, what, Well, listen, Charlotte and
Harry have a tiny bed. And people commented on it
on the on the on the stuff, and it is
something where every day Evan and I would be like,
why is there a bed so such a good relationship.
Speaker 3 (16:42):
I guess so Vita bed that they love is the gist,
because we did actually have to ask like why because
sometimes it would be awkward to film in it because
it was so small, do you know what I mean?
Speaker 1 (16:54):
So maybe it's because they have such a good marriage
that they can Maybe that's why they have such a marriage.
I don't know, but it is interesting to me because
I would definitely be like bigger bed, possibly sleeping in
a different room. But I'm not married, so I don't
have to worry about that. Okay, so we're back. Oh,
let's go back to the Samantha. So Samantha's whole plan
is that she's going to lure this her version of
mister Bigg whose name dominic back. She wears the stunning
(17:17):
dress to go out with him. She tells Carrie she's
not gonna have sex with him, right, She's gonna make
him want to have sex with her, and she's going
to be like, bye, I'm going to do to you
what you did to me. But it doesn't go that
way because she just enjoys him too much, and he
keeps telling her how beautiful she is and how incredible
she is, and that she's more beautiful than he remembered,
and you know, so many things. He's very smooth. Meanwhile,
(17:39):
I go back on another date with Stefan and he
is now using Martha Stewart recipe. So we bond over that,
which is so cute but also confusing. So Chelle is
between like, this is amazing. Oh, I'm a little confused.
This is amazing. Oh I'm a little confused, which of course.
Speaker 2 (17:58):
Is then hey gives you this amazing but then he
like stands back and looks at you, and it's like exactly.
Speaker 1 (18:03):
And I still have that dress in my closet. It's
a great dress. I don't know if I can still
wear it, but it's a great dress. I should probably
give it to my daughter, but yeah, it's hanging in
my closet. I just thought it today and.
Speaker 2 (18:12):
I was like, oh my god, that's a kitchen where
you guys, do you remember that was the same I
can't remember who Samantha Richard and she was dating Richard.
Speaker 1 (18:21):
It's the same apartment.
Speaker 2 (18:22):
Remember that, So f mega fans, if you like, when
they had that amazing apartment of Richards, that had the
stairs that came down the kitchen. There was this kitchen
that we used for funerment. That apartment was amazing.
Speaker 1 (18:35):
Yeah, that is amazing, because that apartment was amazing.
Speaker 2 (18:38):
Yeah you remember that.
Speaker 1 (18:40):
Thank you, Cindy for connecting those dots. I love it. Okay.
Then we go to the dessert bar. We're stepping is
the pastry show, and I take Carry and Stanford to
get their help with deciding if he is straight or gay,
(19:02):
which is kind of entertaining, and everyone loves him basically,
and he notices Carrie's hair and again it's the moment
of like huh oh oh, yeah, it's all very interesting
and we've all been there. Then oh, this is so sad.
Miranda state, Oh, it's so good. It's so so funny.
Speaker 2 (19:20):
And I remember noticing how Cynthia would kind of serve
up so that he could just knock her down, like
the way if you watch that scene, the way she
says like she's excited to have this conversation about freezing
your eggs. Oh good, someone I can like debate with.
And then he just like I said that man, and
(19:41):
but she yeah, it was interesting.
Speaker 1 (19:43):
I think you're incredible, but you're so good to just.
Speaker 2 (19:47):
Sort of make the other actor better even absolutely.
Speaker 1 (19:50):
And and and also just to understand the like she
ploys it all so close to the best, yet it's
also present.
Speaker 2 (19:59):
Yeah, you know what I mean?
Speaker 1 (20:00):
And I think that, you know, so many times when
I'm watching her and the guy that she's acting with
is Harry O'Reilly, So I feel like I know from
something else, Butry, I forgot to ask you, Hannah, what
Harry O'Reilly?
Speaker 2 (20:11):
And he starts just like staring at his hand and
he's so random judgmental about this guy with hair plugs
who she had eliminated before her lazy every consider Like,
I just always was wrestling with that maybe still like
just like what you're too good for and what like
maybe you're not even good enough for.
Speaker 1 (20:33):
I.
Speaker 2 (20:35):
I still don't know.
Speaker 1 (20:36):
I don't know either. I do know that people did.
There was this post that has done really well on
my social media that I reposted Evan, which was kind
of interesting. Everyone was doing some press for the show
and someone said to him something about he said, you know,
women come up to me all the time and say
I'm still looking for my hairy and he says to them,
(20:57):
because he's Evan and he doesn't care about anything. He
says to them, how many Harry's have you pushed away?
Speaker 3 (21:04):
Oh?
Speaker 2 (21:05):
Good for Evan and bad for us? It's probably true.
Oh my god, it is probably true, I think. And
Evan's so great looking anyway, But remember when you met him,
there's like the really handsome lawyer and then there's Evan.
They were both handsome in their own way. But I
(21:25):
remember Evan saying because his stand in who is the
person they like and it's standing was not good looking.
Its just bald. Sorry if you're listening. But Evone's like,
it's kind of like when you get set up on
a blind day and you go, is that how you
see me? Like? Evan was like, oh my god. I
(21:46):
remember him saying something about it, like, okaywhere is the hero? Everybody?
Speaker 1 (21:51):
He's put up with so much, but he is the
last man standing, which I'm really happy about. Love he
deserves it. But he did put up with so much.
Remember when we made that put the hair on his back,
My god, didn't have any hair or Evan had to
go through that. Oh my god, back back to the
olden days. We're back. Evan hasn't come yet. Harry has
not arrived, so then we go, this is the really,
(22:13):
this is when we were in bed and he puts
on Share. Do you remember that we had to go
to a Share concert to get permission?
Speaker 2 (22:20):
It was we all went right, and she came and
like talked to us before the show, and I touched
her and she was so fradulent like viking like a
head peek, which on the stage looks in person it's.
Speaker 1 (22:33):
Kind of like, wow, Wow, I can't believe you have
to wear this. She was so sweet.
Speaker 2 (22:39):
Open for something. Oh my god. Yeah, whoever it was.
We were having like dinner and Share was talking to
us while Cindy was on I think right.
Speaker 1 (22:46):
I do remember at Madison Square Garden. It was incredible.
It was when she had this song that we get
to use in the show. Wait if you believe in okay,
I mean it's an old song.
Speaker 2 (22:57):
Now we would have been happening to go to the
concert anyway, but yeah, there was some connection where we
I think we had to get her steal of a
preval which is totally.
Speaker 1 (23:06):
Fine because we got to meet a Share, which is
incredible on it because I grew up watching the Sonny
and Share the show and I don't care if I'm.
Speaker 2 (23:13):
Doing those experiences like okay, we I can't believe this
is my life insane, absolutely, And I love that song
so much and when it ever comes on the radio,
I'm so happy, so happy because it reminds me of
butter Man, reminds me of Share, it reminds me of us.
Speaker 1 (23:26):
It's a great thing. So we're there. I try to
ask poor characters Stefan if he's been with a man.
He asked me if I've been with a woman, which
is a fair question. Charlotte doesn't answer, which makes me
wonder had Charlotte been with a woman? And we don't know.
I think the answer is no, because I don't do
that threesome.
Speaker 2 (23:40):
I think Charlotte to me, it was like she's just like,
you're right, that will no just she realizes that this question, like,
of course he wouldn't ask me that, and why am
I asking him that? Maybe it's okay, but except for today,
maybe he would.
Speaker 1 (23:54):
It also is like a weird it's a weird. It's
a weird.
Speaker 2 (23:57):
It's a weird thing about exactly.
Speaker 1 (24:01):
It's very strength. But you know, she's concerned.
Speaker 2 (24:05):
I don't know she's she's what she's been at least.
Speaker 1 (24:08):
It's honest, right to ask him honestly. But then she
dodges when he asks her, which is kind of funny.
And then he does say the very funny thing about
how he lives in Chelsea's a picture chip. He'd be
gay if he was gay, which you know, yes, more
power to you. And then and then I'm relieved. And
then we have beautiful sex, which is great, and everything
goes great. We're just going to skip to the mouse.
Everything goes great. The next morning, he wants to make
her some tea, and then a red start squealing.
Speaker 2 (24:34):
I'm like, where's that noise?
Speaker 1 (24:35):
And he's like, I'm like, its like a squealing. He's like, oh, yes,
over there, raft there's a whole thing. There's literally supposed
to be a little mouse stuck in the glue trap
in his kitchen. How New York is terrifying.
Speaker 2 (24:51):
I don't think it was stuck in the I can't
remember how we did that, but it was a real Okay.
Speaker 1 (24:55):
We cannot have put a real mouse on the trap.
I would not have been okay with that. It's horrifying.
I want you to let people put glue traps at
my house, even when I hide mice at my old house.
I was like, no, that's mean and horrible.
Speaker 2 (25:09):
Tried it at once and then it was like the
telltale heart because this mouse was not dead but had
one leg and it was like dragging around it blue
and I was hearing the glue trap. It was awful
and I'm so awful it was, and I'm sorry I
never did it again.
Speaker 1 (25:23):
No, I know it's a terrible, terrible thing.
Speaker 2 (25:25):
But then Danny, I'm just walking around with, oh my god.
Speaker 1 (25:28):
Oh my god, my god. I hope he made it.
Speaker 2 (25:30):
I hope he made it.
Speaker 1 (25:31):
So I didn't kill I'm glad you can't kill it.
So Danny Futterman's character Steven, jumps up on a chair
and squeals, and then there's a funny voice over that
it basically says, oh, he didn't write it in her,
But it basically says, you know that Charlotte is not
doesn't her developed her mask and side has not developed
enough for her to be with someone who's FEMINSI is
(25:53):
so developed. And that's great, you know what I'm saying,
because that that's a real thing. Yeah, and you kind
of have to find the right fit, you know, at
least Charlotte knows this about herself.
Speaker 2 (26:03):
You know, it's fine. I mean, it was fun to
be on the step.
Speaker 1 (26:05):
For all of this. It's always fun to be on
a step. Okay, wait, here's the trivia. When Charlotte is
hailing a cab with Stephan and says, you you got
to show a little leg. This isn't the first. Oh,
this is a through line. Carrie does this in Morocco,
do you remember. But the funniest thing is I so
don't show any leg Yeah, because you know how I
feel about my legs. I don't know if you know,
but yeah, I'm not fond of my legs. So I'm
(26:26):
sure I was like, I want to show my legs
or like I do some like pose Like I'm like,
this is the pose you make? And then it works,
which is hysterical because who wouldn't stop for Danny Futterman,
you know what I mean. But it is true that
this is a through line. I have to say my
other thing that I'm so amazed by. Every time I
watched the old episodes, we say and just like that,
(26:47):
every single episode in this episode we said it. It's
like I.
Speaker 2 (26:51):
Couldn't help but wonder there were certainly realized we were
using I didn't either.
Speaker 1 (26:56):
I did either. I mean I did know the I
didn't help, but wonder but more so because has once
ever social media started, they would always it was it's
such a great to be off boy, But I didn't
realize THEE and just like that. Yeah, I mean, we
use it all the time. It's Netty, it's Ntty, Cindy. Yes,
are you a Charlotte?
Speaker 2 (27:13):
Okay, I think maybe right now, for the first one
in my life, I'm not wow, which is so good.
I always had this like romantic optimism, and I'm just
feeling like, ugh, I don't know. I'm a little bit
more Miranda right now than usual, but I usually feel
like I've got a little of all of them. Okay,
then I think going to say optimism and hope and Okay,
(27:34):
I'm gonna be I'm gonna be Charlotte again. But anyway,
I think Charlotte.
Speaker 1 (27:37):
Is a good with you. It's hard to remain Charlotte
for your whole life. Yes, I think in some ways
that's an unrealistic expectation, even for myself and I play her,
you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2 (27:49):
I think they're all aspects like I always thought, start
out like Charlotte. Then I get into the relationship, I
kind of get in my own way a little bit Miranda,
Like then I'm kind of carrying for analyzing it, like
I think Carrie is the whole everything, and then you're
kind of Samantha like get totally well put I go
back to Charlotte again, and it's like, I mean, I.
Speaker 1 (28:11):
Think Charlotte is your core, you know what I mean?
And I think that when I know for myself, when
I get down, it's because Charlotte is my core. Yeah, right,
because like if you look at Miranda, I mean, and
Miranda does like she's kind of a little down in
this episode, right yeah, but she also sometimes she just
like gets strength from her pragmatism, you know what I'm saying.
She's just like I see it like it is, and
(28:31):
I call it like it is and no, no, no, no no.
But then like when Steve breaks up with her, which
was the one right before, you know, she's so gutted,
Like it's just so sweet. But all the characters are
so beautifully beautifully drawn, and at anyway, I'm proud to
be a Charlotte, A core. Charlotte excellent I think core
Charlotte is good. I mean, that's how I think of
myself too. I am Charlotte with some Carrie, because that's why.
(28:53):
Also I enjoyed the podcast because I can look at
the themes of the relationships stuff and talk to other
people like you have about them. It's fun. It's very
carry asked, really, you know. And Carrie did have a
podcast for a minute there, but not like mine. She's
in charge, you know what I mean, trying to be
in charge of your podcast. I enjoy that. But I
think it's so interesting. Thank you for being here. And
(29:14):
you have to come back because you write so many
of the absolutely iconic episodes, and I love to hear
your memories because you have different memories than I have,
you know what I mean, And to pull them together
is fun.
Speaker 2 (29:26):
And I say, in case I don't come back, you
getting married to Trey when you've just found out he
can't get it up with the veil. I think I
wrote that line like Carrie tells you, like maybe he
like Master Wade before he came home, right, and then
what I know, like you're in your veil and and
(29:46):
you go. I think the stage direction was hopeful and
you go. Maybe he did jerk off.
Speaker 1 (29:55):
Your veil And then do you remember shooting that? And
that Betty Ann are A d laughed out loud, she
was up on a ladder behind me, laughed out out
loud and ruined to take. I was so mad because
that's hard to do that, you know what I mean, Like,
it's a very delicate thank you and thank god I
could do it again, because you're always leaving scared, like,
can I do it again? I don't know, But if
you make the ad laugh on a ladder, then you
(30:16):
know it's working. But then you also ruined to take,
you know what I'm saying, But that's what I remember.
I remember just wanting to thread that needle so precisely,
you know, thank you. That was as a That's a
big episode in my mind as well, in terms of
just the glory of her getting what she thinks she
wants and then obviously later on we find out it's
not what she wants. But what a great, great character arc,
(30:40):
you know, thank you for having thank you for being here,
and you must come back. There's too many that you
wrote now to come back. I mean, yeah, we'll just
plan it out. I don't want to overstay my welcome,
but please come back.
Speaker 2 (30:50):
Okay,
Hi, I'm Kristin Davis, and I want to know are
you a Charlotte? Everybody, welcome back to Are You a Charlotte?
We are here with the amazing and so brilliant Cindy Shoepack,
our writer and producer of Sex and the City, to
discuss part two of Evolution nineteen ninety nine. Okay, let's
(00:24):
talk about the others. Okay. This is when I also
feel and I felt this way also the last episode,
which is when we're getting pedicures talking about the classes,
class and cast system. I feel like our group scenes
are like really coming together now kind of for the
first time in a way like they've been kind together.
Like you remember when we shot it at a restaurant,
we had the pepper Mill. That was one first season
(00:45):
where I'm like, oh, that's working. Like you know, the
group scenes were so challenging to write and they had
to really like we would work on those things all
day long and we had to run those lines and run.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
Those lines, and then the film the scene over and over.
Speaker 1 (00:58):
Now, yes, and the timing of any but.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
Those are my favorite scenes, are they really? I mean
I love the scenes of you guys all together and
just you know, breaking down. Well, I love a lot
about the series, but those were like so fun for me.
They seemed really fun to write and to watch because
in a way, when I wrote those essays about dating,
like for Glamour, they would want you to end on
(01:21):
some kind of revelation about some advice. And what was
fun about writing the four of You is you could
just dissect an issue and you could all four have
different perspectives and nobody was right and nobody was really wrong,
and so it was like commiserating and that's my favorite
thing toct and do. So those scenes were just fine
to like. And sometimes I would be surprising what like
you would think Charlie would think about this and what
(01:42):
she did think of.
Speaker 1 (01:43):
Oh, definitely, everyone surprises almost all the time, which I
think is great and that's the joy, you know, that's
the joy, And that's also you're right, It is a
unique unique to the show that there'd be four characters
with distinct viewpoints that are friends and that can freely
that it's like they have an agreement. Yes, we're just
going to really discuss it all and not say that
(02:03):
there isn't judgment. There is occasionally judgment or like no
don't do that, you know, then people just go ahead
and do it, and we're still there for each other.
It's not like we're going to be like, well I
didn't agree with that.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
Yeah, you know what I mean, I told you that.
Speaker 1 (02:13):
Ye right, no, thank god, thank god, thank god. But yeah,
it's interesting to think back on it, you know, the
things that made it unique. It's interesting. And in this
particular scene we talk about fertility, which is fun, and
I say, I have a tilted uterush and Miranda tells
us about her her lazy ovary, which I don't even
know if they use that term anymore. It's kind of interesting.
(02:35):
Do you think.
Speaker 2 (02:36):
I think they might, but I don't know for sure.
Speaker 1 (02:38):
I don't know either. It seems not very scientific.
Speaker 2 (02:41):
That's why that started on the cologists table, this episode
with them, which was so.
Speaker 1 (02:46):
Great because Pam Thomas, again the director, is so visual
and she's just got a shot above of Cynthia because
it's so awkward. We've all been to and you're going
to see Charlotte at the gun Collegist. But Pam just
had such a creative way of filming.
Speaker 2 (02:59):
Yeah, and like how Cynthia is just looking up and
talking to the person who's like inside exactly and then
taking them and having to describe she's not on birth
control because her relationship ended, Like you get too much anyway,
it's so a lot I love about how.
Speaker 1 (03:13):
Relatable, so relatable and so great. So then we talk
about so this is when Carrie wants to leave things
at bigs. People talk to me about this, which I
find really interesting.
Speaker 2 (03:24):
I thought it was who Christy Brinkley, Oh, Christy Brinkley,
thought that was Carrie pushing the shed. I saw that
clip on tik talk and it was interesting to me.
Speaker 1 (03:36):
Can I tell you that I kind of wanted to
push back a little, but I love Christy and I
respect Christy, and I didn't want to because she was
talking about her daughters and watching with her daughters. I
just felt like it was a little delicate to push back.
But I kind of wanted to say, like, you know,
Carrie puts up with a lot, like way more than
(03:57):
Big puts up with.
Speaker 2 (04:00):
Not air dryer.
Speaker 1 (04:03):
Is that so bad?
Speaker 2 (04:05):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (04:05):
I don't think so, you know, but I didn't want
I didn't want to because I felt like I'm always
so appreciative when people come on and talk about their.
Speaker 2 (04:13):
Own and I love hearing the different perspectives, and I
thought that was interesting to think of it that way
when I just felt like she was so gingerly trying
to like leave with something I know. But yeah, it's
interesting that like she was pushing. Maybe Christy knew more
than we did that it.
Speaker 1 (04:27):
Was not everybody knows their own experience, I guess, but
like for me, I'm like Harrie's like bending her whole
self around who that man wants her to be or
trying you know, yeah, with middling success, and she holds
so much in that I feel like when she does
finally speak, sometimes it does come out, you know, with
(04:48):
a lot of drama or whatever, because she's been shoving
it down, shoving it down, shoving it down, and not
really free like he he is, so you know, obviously
doesn't want her to be doing the things she wants
to do. Like at one point, doesn't she say something
to him like, you know, like people in a relationship,
do you know what do you think people should be doing?
(05:09):
Like don't you think this is normal? And he goes, no,
I think we're doing exactly what people. You know, I'm.
Speaker 2 (05:13):
Totally happy with what we're doing. Because he is happy yeah,
and he wants that situation. Actually two apartments, we can
be together. She wanted to be together, but she.
Speaker 1 (05:21):
Feels like she needs to look good in the morning,
and yeah for him. Also, you don't even trying to say, like,
you know, she's trying to look amazing for him. And
so she wants her little baby, tiny hair dryer that
I've literally never seen this tinier hair dryer in my life.
She wants to leave it at his house. Like, I
just think he's so mean sometimes, you know.
Speaker 2 (05:38):
Obviously I guess I could see I like that because
I felt like I could see both sides definitely, But
I mean it did. When he comes back with her stuff,
like you left this stuff at my house, it just
looks really sad Teflon For relationships, they were really fun
to watch in that though.
Speaker 1 (05:53):
I think, I mean they are because it does have
we're at the point now, luckily, because the first reason
I was like, biggest, awful, biggest horrible, what the heck?
Because I never looked at it ever objectively, you know,
first of all was in it. I would just read
the script with excitement every time. Of course, I loved
Big because I was Charlotte and Charlotte loved Big, like
it wouldn't occur to me to peel away that level
(06:14):
and think about, well, how does Kristin feel about Big?
I never asked that question. Who cares right doesn't matter.
But also I also feel in the nineties where we
were in New York, especially if you were dating a
guy like that, you expected him to be withholding. Yeah,
that was normal.
Speaker 2 (06:31):
I mean, I think I didn't have the self esteem
to be very objective about any of this. Of course
she tried it right too, But I think as a writer,
I have to like love all the characters anyway, like
I have to see what's lovable and see what's right
about their perspective. And so I kind of felt that way,
(06:52):
I guess all along, like I wasn't being objective about
it was hard to be objective about Lizzie treating or badly,
or issue stepping or anything. I kind of get it all,
you know, exactly.
Speaker 1 (07:01):
And you're just trying to be real and relatable and
the tell the truth of the stories as you are
experiencing them. It's a really good point. It's not our
job to be objective. I mean, it's interesting now because
now all these many years later, obviously we're looking back
at what we created, but also now there's social media
where everyone's putting their thing.
Speaker 2 (07:19):
Thank good we didn't have that. Good I am going
to say, thank god we did not have that. I mean,
I often think I'm glad that communication was what it
was then because like I still find like writing into scripts,
texting and everything that's going on now just like not
as fun as just people talking about it. And yes,
in real life they wouldn't necessarily go over there or
call each other, but it was just fun not to
(07:40):
have that option for us.
Speaker 1 (07:42):
I agree.
Speaker 2 (07:42):
And then same about the instant feedback, Like I think
even when I worked on Modern Family, like we they
would like watch the tweets and while the show was
airing and see if people were laughing at lines, and
it was It's just it was nice to be trying
to I mean, I remember Michael saying, like we're doing
maybe Jenny told me. I think Michael that we're making
(08:04):
the show like the network doesn't have a lot of
input other than like make it deeper, make it more complicated.
Same with you guys, like those questions like I think
maybe my character did that, But he was like, we're
making the show that we would enjoy watching, and that
was really what we were doing and hoping that that
was something other people would enjoy watching too. But it
was kind of like, not based on what we thought
(08:25):
everybody wanted to hear.
Speaker 1 (08:26):
It's pure, it's pure, and that was the joy of
it because we at the time the model was network TV,
where they were trying to please advertisers, right, and everything
was advertiser based, which was why they couldn't kind of
push the envelope in different ways. Yeah, which was then
the birth of HBO as we then came to know
it obviously that they could do whatever they wanted. They
were subscription based. Now we're in this whole other world
(08:49):
of streaming everything being available all the time at once
and then everyone looking at literally what everyone says, yeah,
and clickbait being in yeah, which is yeah, I mean all,
it's all very different. Okay, let's talk about just Butterman, right.
(09:17):
So here we are, Charlotte is on a date, but
she doesn't know she's on a date. She's wearing her glasses,
which is funny. They go to see a Broadway show
and they discuss Betty Buckley she has, which fully made
me laugh. And I loved it. And she's with a
very handsome guy. He's played by Dan Futterman. His name
is Stephan or Stephan, Yes, Stefan am I saying it right? Good?
And then we were walking and talking and you know,
(09:40):
Charlotte seems oddly relaxed. She's not on her normal date
vibe right, Yeah, but yet it's a beautiful night. You know,
it looks great, he looks great.
Speaker 2 (09:48):
Whatever.
Speaker 1 (09:49):
She's talking about the show. And then they get to
the cab and then he grabs her and kisses her
and she gets in the cabin. She's just staring at
him like what the glass?
Speaker 2 (09:56):
I touched my glasses right, which is really funny. That's
the beginning to see you though, like see Charlotte. Yeah,
how we wouldn't have really thought about how she's different
with a guy she doesn't think she's on a date
with because we've mostly only seen you on dates, so
we're either with the girlfriends or on date. But you
were kind of like, yeah, like you'd be with girlfriends. Yeah,
it's so nice. It was a nice little lesson, I
(10:19):
mean reminder that like maybe we should just be that way.
Speaker 1 (10:21):
One So then we go to lunch, No sorry, I
read a bar at a bar with the ladies, and
I'm telling them that I'm confused about this guy. Is
he gay? Is he straight? And they we have a
conversation where we talk about gay straight A straight gay man. Yeah,
it's a new term of heterosexual males spawned in Manhattan
(10:41):
as the result of overexposure to fashion, exotic cuisine, and
musical theater and antique.
Speaker 2 (10:48):
Furniture, every stereotype. Anyway, can we talk about Miranda's So Miranda, Well,
first of all, I love yes, I love Charlotte in
this whole thing, and like that was a sexy love
scene that you and Dan Fetterman did.
Speaker 1 (11:04):
Thank you, Like it was like a really beautiful Thomas
really really planned it out. And I think that's my
first sex scene ever. That's like a beautiful sex scene.
I think there were little hits, like there's that one
time in the first season where I'm trying to get
this duded and job and they wanted me to do
it over the sheets, and I had to hide in
my trailer and my dressing room and like wait, like
call Dave in La, my manager, and say, like help me.
(11:26):
They want me to do something over the sheees that's
like soick and cringe to use the word. And then
I put it under the sheets. But like that was
like a joke, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2 (11:34):
That's the thing, Like most of our sex scenes were
for comedy, right, and weren't I heard you talking to
some guest about the male gaze. It wasn't because it
wasn't royalistic. Really, it was usually a story point of
some sort and we didn't really linger on it, right.
And that story point though in this one, was that
like she wasn't sure about him and what and then
it's this great sex, really intimate, beautiful right sex, So
(11:57):
that was important there.
Speaker 1 (11:58):
And it was super important, so beautifully done. And she
had come to me early because I hadn't really done
the sex scenes, right, yeah, And I hadn't showed any body,
and I don't feel like there was a ton of body.
But she had a whole plan about the camera being
over us on a track and I remember it all,
and of course Betterman made me feel so much better
because I was super nervous just about my body and
whatever and everyone it made it. It was so easy
(12:22):
because he's such a good actor and Cam had such
a specific plan and was so calm about it. So
even without intimacy coordinators, which we do discuss all the
time that we didn't have them, it was so comfortable
as much as they can be.
Speaker 2 (12:35):
Yeah, she's a good director director, like just making you
know what you were up to.
Speaker 1 (12:40):
And also I think because she'd come from commercials, I
think was the thing I remember, so she was so visual,
but yet she shared that with us.
Speaker 2 (12:48):
Yeah, and she brought it in like simple, like other
screen grabs of other things that were she was using
his references like there's one time where she goes from
your bed I think too, Samantha's bed over the shit.
She was super smart that there's some beautiful there's some
beautiful directing.
Speaker 1 (13:02):
And also that's what we needed to get everything started
to be tied in and as it goes that you
can see that developing episode by episode, right, And she
did a beautiful job. I at the time was like, wait,
are those my likes? No, those are those are kidists.
They're very beautiful here, but like so so beautifully beautifully done.
So wait, wait, let's go back to the thing at
(13:23):
the bar. This is when Carrie holds up the tiny
fendy bag. People talk a lot about the Fendy bag
it's and how you know what a great partnership that
turned out to be? Yes, and Sarah Jessica said, you know,
it's literally just because that's who would send her some bags.
Speaker 2 (13:37):
Well, now that she didn't love I'm sorry about that
because I you know, I grew up in Oklahoma. I
had no fashion sense, still probably don't have the greatest.
But I learned so much on the show. But when
I wrote that episode, which was only the second episode
I ever wrote, I think I wrote in it was
like her little coach bag or something, and I remember
pat Field was like, don't just leave it to us.
(14:02):
I needed to made a small vision of like the hierarchy.
Speaker 1 (14:08):
Can I tell you that that continued until the end
of it, just like that. The girls would write something
in and Molly would be like, no, no, yeah, it's
so cute and funny though, but I mean, how could
you know?
Speaker 2 (14:23):
Yeah, But that was the perfect back because the point
was like she didn't have to carry a big bag.
It was his leads.
Speaker 1 (14:28):
Fantastic and it was also so cute and it's so
sweet that like she's trying to you know, it's so
cute that she wants to leave the things. Okay, So
then we're there wait at Carrie's apartment. It comes over
for drinks. The girls wait and returns, oh, yeah, that's horrible.
When he brings that bag back, I've skipped ahead somehow,
but they talk about yeah, to talk about it, and
(14:49):
then she said she meant to leave it. And then
and then she asked, oh, this is the thing that
I was saying earlier she has about the ideal living
situation for their relationship, and he responds, exactly what we have.
And then he is this. He has his place, she
has her place. They see each other when they want,
and then they get to be alone they when they want.
And I just love sir Jessica's acting so much because
(15:10):
whenever he does do these things, you could just see
so many things going through her mind and her heart.
Speaker 2 (15:16):
You know what I mean. And she doesn't say then
say like just sucks, and he's so right. But also
that voiceover, I still I stand by that voiceover afterward
when she says, ever since men heard about Woody Ellen
waving across the park to Mia Pharaoh.
Speaker 1 (15:31):
He goes, so we're like Woody and I remember before Sunny,
I remember this like it was yesterday. Do you remember
that whole article where you were just like what it
must have been Fanny Fair. You're just like, what would
they do? What? And she can only wear a beige?
Like what? And I think we talked about it every day,
were like But also I.
Speaker 2 (15:51):
Still think that fantasy of like living sort of separately
but you know, having your own space but being able
to be together.
Speaker 1 (15:56):
It's great. It's just not a great example because it
really didn't go well, yeah, well they really didn't go
it's right.
Speaker 2 (16:02):
So it's very fascinating.
Speaker 1 (16:05):
But I think it's a lot like the sleep marriage situation.
It's a little bit like that. That's the current today
version where you're married but you're not sleeping in the
bed together. And some people think that's amazing, and some
people think that's.
Speaker 2 (16:18):
Someone who told me, like she realized when she had
a king sized bed with her first husband that she
should never have that big a bed and she should
have a queen size bed. They should be that close.
Speaker 1 (16:26):
Well, and I was like, what, Well, listen, Charlotte and
Harry have a tiny bed. And people commented on it
on the on the on the stuff, and it is
something where every day Evan and I would be like,
why is there a bed so such a good relationship.
Speaker 3 (16:42):
I guess so Vita bed that they love is the gist,
because we did actually have to ask like why because
sometimes it would be awkward to film in it because
it was so small, do you know what I mean?
Speaker 1 (16:54):
So maybe it's because they have such a good marriage
that they can Maybe that's why they have such a marriage.
I don't know, but it is interesting to me because
I would definitely be like bigger bed, possibly sleeping in
a different room. But I'm not married, so I don't
have to worry about that. Okay, so we're back. Oh,
let's go back to the Samantha. So Samantha's whole plan
is that she's going to lure this her version of
mister Bigg whose name dominic back. She wears the stunning
(17:17):
dress to go out with him. She tells Carrie she's
not gonna have sex with him, right, She's gonna make
him want to have sex with her, and she's going
to be like, bye, I'm going to do to you
what you did to me. But it doesn't go that
way because she just enjoys him too much, and he
keeps telling her how beautiful she is and how incredible
she is, and that she's more beautiful than he remembered,
and you know, so many things. He's very smooth. Meanwhile,
(17:39):
I go back on another date with Stefan and he
is now using Martha Stewart recipe. So we bond over that,
which is so cute but also confusing. So Chelle is
between like, this is amazing. Oh, I'm a little confused.
This is amazing. Oh I'm a little confused, which of course.
Speaker 2 (17:58):
Is then hey gives you this amazing but then he
like stands back and looks at you, and it's like exactly.
Speaker 1 (18:03):
And I still have that dress in my closet. It's
a great dress. I don't know if I can still
wear it, but it's a great dress. I should probably
give it to my daughter, but yeah, it's hanging in
my closet. I just thought it today and.
Speaker 2 (18:12):
I was like, oh my god, that's a kitchen where
you guys, do you remember that was the same I
can't remember who Samantha Richard and she was dating Richard.
Speaker 1 (18:21):
It's the same apartment.
Speaker 2 (18:22):
Remember that, So f mega fans, if you like, when
they had that amazing apartment of Richards, that had the
stairs that came down the kitchen. There was this kitchen
that we used for funerment. That apartment was amazing.
Speaker 1 (18:35):
Yeah, that is amazing, because that apartment was amazing.
Speaker 2 (18:38):
Yeah you remember that.
Speaker 1 (18:40):
Thank you, Cindy for connecting those dots. I love it. Okay.
Then we go to the dessert bar. We're stepping is
the pastry show, and I take Carry and Stanford to
get their help with deciding if he is straight or gay,
(19:02):
which is kind of entertaining, and everyone loves him basically,
and he notices Carrie's hair and again it's the moment
of like huh oh oh, yeah, it's all very interesting
and we've all been there. Then oh, this is so sad.
Miranda state, Oh, it's so good. It's so so funny.
Speaker 2 (19:20):
And I remember noticing how Cynthia would kind of serve
up so that he could just knock her down, like
the way if you watch that scene, the way she
says like she's excited to have this conversation about freezing
your eggs. Oh good, someone I can like debate with.
And then he just like I said that man, and
(19:41):
but she yeah, it was interesting.
Speaker 1 (19:43):
I think you're incredible, but you're so good to just.
Speaker 2 (19:47):
Sort of make the other actor better even absolutely.
Speaker 1 (19:50):
And and and also just to understand the like she
ploys it all so close to the best, yet it's
also present.
Speaker 2 (19:59):
Yeah, you know what I mean?
Speaker 1 (20:00):
And I think that, you know, so many times when
I'm watching her and the guy that she's acting with
is Harry O'Reilly, So I feel like I know from
something else, Butry, I forgot to ask you, Hannah, what
Harry O'Reilly?
Speaker 2 (20:11):
And he starts just like staring at his hand and
he's so random judgmental about this guy with hair plugs
who she had eliminated before her lazy every consider Like,
I just always was wrestling with that maybe still like
just like what you're too good for and what like
maybe you're not even good enough for.
Speaker 1 (20:33):
I.
Speaker 2 (20:35):
I still don't know.
Speaker 1 (20:36):
I don't know either. I do know that people did.
There was this post that has done really well on
my social media that I reposted Evan, which was kind
of interesting. Everyone was doing some press for the show
and someone said to him something about he said, you know,
women come up to me all the time and say
I'm still looking for my hairy and he says to them,
(20:57):
because he's Evan and he doesn't care about anything. He
says to them, how many Harry's have you pushed away?
Speaker 3 (21:04):
Oh?
Speaker 2 (21:05):
Good for Evan and bad for us? It's probably true.
Oh my god, it is probably true, I think. And
Evan's so great looking anyway, But remember when you met him,
there's like the really handsome lawyer and then there's Evan.
They were both handsome in their own way. But I
(21:25):
remember Evan saying because his stand in who is the
person they like and it's standing was not good looking.
Its just bald. Sorry if you're listening. But Evone's like,
it's kind of like when you get set up on
a blind day and you go, is that how you
see me? Like? Evan was like, oh my god. I
(21:46):
remember him saying something about it, like, okaywhere is the hero? Everybody?
Speaker 1 (21:51):
He's put up with so much, but he is the
last man standing, which I'm really happy about. Love he
deserves it. But he did put up with so much.
Remember when we made that put the hair on his back,
My god, didn't have any hair or Evan had to
go through that. Oh my god, back back to the
olden days. We're back. Evan hasn't come yet. Harry has
not arrived, so then we go, this is the really,
(22:13):
this is when we were in bed and he puts
on Share. Do you remember that we had to go
to a Share concert to get permission?
Speaker 2 (22:20):
It was we all went right, and she came and
like talked to us before the show, and I touched
her and she was so fradulent like viking like a
head peek, which on the stage looks in person it's.
Speaker 1 (22:33):
Kind of like, wow, Wow, I can't believe you have
to wear this. She was so sweet.
Speaker 2 (22:39):
Open for something. Oh my god. Yeah, whoever it was.
We were having like dinner and Share was talking to
us while Cindy was on I think right.
Speaker 1 (22:46):
I do remember at Madison Square Garden. It was incredible.
It was when she had this song that we get
to use in the show. Wait if you believe in okay,
I mean it's an old song.
Speaker 2 (22:57):
Now we would have been happening to go to the
concert anyway, but yeah, there was some connection where we
I think we had to get her steal of a
preval which is totally.
Speaker 1 (23:06):
Fine because we got to meet a Share, which is
incredible on it because I grew up watching the Sonny
and Share the show and I don't care if I'm.
Speaker 2 (23:13):
Doing those experiences like okay, we I can't believe this
is my life insane, absolutely, And I love that song
so much and when it ever comes on the radio,
I'm so happy, so happy because it reminds me of
butter Man, reminds me of Share, it reminds me of us.
Speaker 1 (23:26):
It's a great thing. So we're there. I try to
ask poor characters Stefan if he's been with a man.
He asked me if I've been with a woman, which
is a fair question. Charlotte doesn't answer, which makes me
wonder had Charlotte been with a woman? And we don't know.
I think the answer is no, because I don't do
that threesome.
Speaker 2 (23:40):
I think Charlotte to me, it was like she's just like,
you're right, that will no just she realizes that this question, like,
of course he wouldn't ask me that, and why am
I asking him that? Maybe it's okay, but except for today,
maybe he would.
Speaker 1 (23:54):
It also is like a weird it's a weird. It's
a weird.
Speaker 2 (23:57):
It's a weird thing about exactly.
Speaker 1 (24:01):
It's very strength. But you know, she's concerned.
Speaker 2 (24:05):
I don't know she's she's what she's been at least.
Speaker 1 (24:08):
It's honest, right to ask him honestly. But then she
dodges when he asks her, which is kind of funny.
And then he does say the very funny thing about
how he lives in Chelsea's a picture chip. He'd be
gay if he was gay, which you know, yes, more
power to you. And then and then I'm relieved. And
then we have beautiful sex, which is great, and everything
goes great. We're just going to skip to the mouse.
Everything goes great. The next morning, he wants to make
her some tea, and then a red start squealing.
Speaker 2 (24:34):
I'm like, where's that noise?
Speaker 1 (24:35):
And he's like, I'm like, its like a squealing. He's like, oh, yes,
over there, raft there's a whole thing. There's literally supposed
to be a little mouse stuck in the glue trap
in his kitchen. How New York is terrifying.
Speaker 2 (24:51):
I don't think it was stuck in the I can't
remember how we did that, but it was a real Okay.
Speaker 1 (24:55):
We cannot have put a real mouse on the trap.
I would not have been okay with that. It's horrifying.
I want you to let people put glue traps at
my house, even when I hide mice at my old house.
I was like, no, that's mean and horrible.
Speaker 2 (25:09):
Tried it at once and then it was like the
telltale heart because this mouse was not dead but had
one leg and it was like dragging around it blue
and I was hearing the glue trap. It was awful
and I'm so awful it was, and I'm sorry I
never did it again.
Speaker 1 (25:23):
No, I know it's a terrible, terrible thing.
Speaker 2 (25:25):
But then Danny, I'm just walking around with, oh my god.
Speaker 1 (25:28):
Oh my god, my god. I hope he made it.
Speaker 2 (25:30):
I hope he made it.
Speaker 1 (25:31):
So I didn't kill I'm glad you can't kill it.
So Danny Futterman's character Steven, jumps up on a chair
and squeals, and then there's a funny voice over that
it basically says, oh, he didn't write it in her,
But it basically says, you know that Charlotte is not
doesn't her developed her mask and side has not developed
enough for her to be with someone who's FEMINSI is
(25:53):
so developed. And that's great, you know what I'm saying,
because that that's a real thing. Yeah, and you kind
of have to find the right fit, you know, at
least Charlotte knows this about herself.
Speaker 2 (26:03):
You know, it's fine. I mean, it was fun to
be on the step.
Speaker 1 (26:05):
For all of this. It's always fun to be on
a step. Okay, wait, here's the trivia. When Charlotte is
hailing a cab with Stephan and says, you you got
to show a little leg. This isn't the first. Oh,
this is a through line. Carrie does this in Morocco,
do you remember. But the funniest thing is I so
don't show any leg Yeah, because you know how I
feel about my legs. I don't know if you know,
but yeah, I'm not fond of my legs. So I'm
(26:26):
sure I was like, I want to show my legs
or like I do some like pose Like I'm like,
this is the pose you make? And then it works,
which is hysterical because who wouldn't stop for Danny Futterman,
you know what I mean. But it is true that
this is a through line. I have to say my
other thing that I'm so amazed by. Every time I
watched the old episodes, we say and just like that,
(26:47):
every single episode in this episode we said it. It's
like I.
Speaker 2 (26:51):
Couldn't help but wonder there were certainly realized we were
using I didn't either.
Speaker 1 (26:56):
I did either. I mean I did know the I
didn't help, but wonder but more so because has once
ever social media started, they would always it was it's
such a great to be off boy, But I didn't
realize THEE and just like that. Yeah, I mean, we
use it all the time. It's Netty, it's Ntty, Cindy. Yes,
are you a Charlotte?
Speaker 2 (27:13):
Okay, I think maybe right now, for the first one
in my life, I'm not wow, which is so good.
I always had this like romantic optimism, and I'm just
feeling like, ugh, I don't know. I'm a little bit
more Miranda right now than usual, but I usually feel
like I've got a little of all of them. Okay,
then I think going to say optimism and hope and Okay,
(27:34):
I'm gonna be I'm gonna be Charlotte again. But anyway,
I think Charlotte.
Speaker 1 (27:37):
Is a good with you. It's hard to remain Charlotte
for your whole life. Yes, I think in some ways
that's an unrealistic expectation, even for myself and I play her,
you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2 (27:49):
I think they're all aspects like I always thought, start
out like Charlotte. Then I get into the relationship, I
kind of get in my own way a little bit Miranda,
Like then I'm kind of carrying for analyzing it, like
I think Carrie is the whole everything, and then you're
kind of Samantha like get totally well put I go
back to Charlotte again, and it's like, I mean, I.
Speaker 1 (28:11):
Think Charlotte is your core, you know what I mean?
And I think that when I know for myself, when
I get down, it's because Charlotte is my core. Yeah, right,
because like if you look at Miranda, I mean, and
Miranda does like she's kind of a little down in
this episode, right yeah, but she also sometimes she just
like gets strength from her pragmatism, you know what I'm saying.
She's just like I see it like it is, and
(28:31):
I call it like it is and no, no, no, no no.
But then like when Steve breaks up with her, which
was the one right before, you know, she's so gutted,
Like it's just so sweet. But all the characters are
so beautifully beautifully drawn, and at anyway, I'm proud to
be a Charlotte, A core. Charlotte excellent I think core
Charlotte is good. I mean, that's how I think of
myself too. I am Charlotte with some Carrie, because that's why.
(28:53):
Also I enjoyed the podcast because I can look at
the themes of the relationships stuff and talk to other
people like you have about them. It's fun. It's very
carry asked, really, you know. And Carrie did have a
podcast for a minute there, but not like mine. She's
in charge, you know what I mean, trying to be
in charge of your podcast. I enjoy that. But I
think it's so interesting. Thank you for being here. And
(29:14):
you have to come back because you write so many
of the absolutely iconic episodes, and I love to hear
your memories because you have different memories than I have,
you know what I mean, And to pull them together
is fun.
Speaker 2 (29:26):
And I say, in case I don't come back, you
getting married to Trey when you've just found out he
can't get it up with the veil. I think I
wrote that line like Carrie tells you, like maybe he
like Master Wade before he came home, right, and then
what I know, like you're in your veil and and
(29:46):
you go. I think the stage direction was hopeful and
you go. Maybe he did jerk off.
Speaker 1 (29:55):
Your veil And then do you remember shooting that? And
that Betty Ann are A d laughed out loud, she
was up on a ladder behind me, laughed out out
loud and ruined to take. I was so mad because
that's hard to do that, you know what I mean, Like,
it's a very delicate thank you and thank god I
could do it again, because you're always leaving scared, like,
can I do it again? I don't know, But if
you make the ad laugh on a ladder, then you
(30:16):
know it's working. But then you also ruined to take,
you know what I'm saying, But that's what I remember.
I remember just wanting to thread that needle so precisely,
you know, thank you. That was as a That's a
big episode in my mind as well, in terms of
just the glory of her getting what she thinks she
wants and then obviously later on we find out it's
not what she wants. But what a great, great character arc,
(30:40):
you know, thank you for having thank you for being here,
and you must come back. There's too many that you
wrote now to come back. I mean, yeah, we'll just
plan it out. I don't want to overstay my welcome,
but please come back.
Speaker 2 (30:50):
Okay,
Host
Kristin Davis
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