Strike A Pose. Vogue.

Chloe Malle, Editor of Vogue.com, joins Kristin to analyze some of Charlotte and Carrie’s most iconic looks. (Chloe also happens to be Sex and the City guest star Candice Bergen’s daughter aka Vogue Editor Enid Frick)
They reveal the secrets of the Vogue closet, $4.50 a word, and borrowing Fendi Baguette bags!

Listen to The Run Through with Vogue Podcast.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Davis, and I want to know, are you a Charlotte
Guess what we have Chloe Mall. I am so excited
because Chloe is connected to the show in so many
different ways. It's true. Are basically a second generation member
of the family. It's true. I'm an satc nebobaby. You are.

(00:20):
We've coined a phrase. I love it. We've coined a phrase.
She's an satc nebo baby. I love it. And secondarily
to that, or in front of that, I guess. She
is the editor of Vogue dot com and she has
an incredible podcast, The run Through with Vogue, And I mean,
it's just a joy in so many different ways. I
literally have the longest list of questions for you.

Speaker 2 (00:40):
I'm so excited. It's very fun to be on the
other side of the mic in this.

Speaker 1 (00:45):
Story, is it. Do people ask you to be on
a lot of podcasts.

Speaker 2 (00:49):
No, I'm usually the one talking to other people, got it.

Speaker 1 (00:52):
It's a joy. I have had such a you know,
I love doing my podcast because of course I love
our show and it's been super fascinating, and I love
to have on our cast members and writers and everybody,
but also other people like yourself, and it makes me
understand being a guest so much better. Yeah, like really,
I'm like light bulb moment, like, you know, let's have fun. Basically,

(01:13):
it's like in film school.

Speaker 2 (01:14):
At the first year of film school, they make students
do every possible role on a film set so that
you know what you're dealing with.

Speaker 1 (01:21):
It's exactly like that.

Speaker 2 (01:24):
Yes, so today I'm the grip.

Speaker 1 (01:26):
Tomorrow you're not the grip. Today you are the actor.
I would say, sure, but you have a lot of
technical expertise, so you're like a really well trained actor.
I think maybe. Okay. So Chloe is the child of Kendesbergen,
a beloved actress and friend of the brand, as we say,

(01:48):
and Candy is just such a joy in so many ways.
As obviously you know, she is your mother, which is
incredible to even think about. And your father is Louis
mal who if you don't know, please look him up.
He is alleged film director of like foundational memories for
all of us in my generation at least that hopefully
everyone else is as well. So that's just brief summary.

(02:10):
So I just want to go back for a second
for anyone listening. Our showrunner Michael Patrick King has a
very long history with your mom, which is how your
mom came to play Enid, the editor of Vogue. In
the Sex and the City World. I think Michael Patrick
King wrote on Murphy Brown. That's right. He won an
Emmy for writing on Murphy Brown, his first which is

(02:33):
so amazing to think about, and from his description of it,
your mom was really his champion. I think he came
in just as one of many, many writers because in
the heyday of sitcoms, which that was definitely in the heyday,
you know, you might have fifteen writers something like this,
and she really was like that guy, that young guy
that stand up him, you know, so he really rose

(02:56):
within the ranks of Murphy Brown, which was a very credible,
you know, much lauded, incredibly viewed sitcom of the nineties.
I guess eighties nineties, Yeah, is that right? So then
she comes we start our show. For the beginning, she
didn't come on for a while, and then when she
did come on, she came on to play Enid the

(03:18):
editor of Vogue, And she has now played Enid through
the first series, the film, the first film, for sure,
I want to say. And then she's also come on
and just like that, which is to us just incredible
and a miracle. And then for myself, I was in
a play on Broadway called The Best Man. Oh, yes,
of course. I mean it was so amazing cast right,

(03:41):
James Earl Jones, James Earl Jones, Angela Lansbury jumphead. I
mean it was real. It was a joy in so
many ways. And your mom was there. I was literally
dying of nerves. I was like the second cast right,
So when we came, I mean I was just like,
could hardly function basically from nerves. And the fact that
your mom was there really helped me because she's such

(04:04):
a warm, comforting presence. And she was like Chris did
I was like, oh, I can't do it. I'm so scared.
So she was really she was really joy. And Angela
also she used to call me Starshine cute. I know,
she's second morning star shine. I'd be like, oh, I'm
going to die of happiness. Yeah. It was incredible. And
then your mom, your mom had finished with the run.
We were like, please don't leave us. But it was

(04:27):
a great, great thing. So I love your mom in
so many ways, so so so many ways. And I
love that you have landed in this incredible fashion world
and position. How did it happen? Oh?

Speaker 2 (04:39):
Well, I mean one hundred percent this is I mean,
there were a couple of like little news bits when
I got this most recent job, and they're like, well,
and remember Cannesbergen played a Vogue editor. It's not by
accident completely. I mean, I'm one hundred percent. My connect

(05:00):
to people in the publishing and media industry got me
into the door, no question. And I think about that
a lot when sort of friends kids write to me.
I also want to respond to random people from college
who have just graduated, you know, for my college and
want to write to me. I really want to reply
to people who I don't, who don't have a connection,

(05:22):
because for me, it was absolutely because I had connections
to Vogue that I got interviews here in the first place.

Speaker 1 (05:28):
And that was fifteen years ago.

Speaker 2 (05:30):
That was twenty eleven, and I was writing at The
New York Observer and The Times at the Times, and
I came into interview for an editor job at Vogue,
which was at the time editing the front of the
magazine section called Flash, which was sort of the fluffy, exciting, events,

(05:57):
glittery part of the magazine. It was the weddings, it, girls, parties,
et cetera, and that was really fun and a great
way to sharpen my teeth in magazine editing. After five
years of doing that, I then went freelance for a
while and then about a year and a half ago,

(06:18):
I came on to take this role as editor of
the website because my podcast co host cho Minati went
moved to London to become an editor of British Vogue,
and she had been editor of the podcast, so.

Speaker 1 (06:33):
We did a little musical chairs amazing and to me,
as a you know, lover of Vogue, I feel like
the website And I guess this is true for most magazines,
you know, because publishing itself like paper, old fashioned publishing
is kind of having, you know, its struggles these days.
But now I feel like the website is so so vibrant,

(06:56):
like taking over in such a beautiful way. Well that's
nice to hear, thank you. Yeah, I feel that. I
really feel that, like the once the kind of you know,
for me. I remember when Olivia Wilde did a cover.
This was a few years back, and there's a beautiful
video that went with it where you could really only
put that on the website. You know, it wasn't something
that would have had a place to live in its entirety,

(07:17):
and it was gorgeous and it really brought it all
to life in a way that I mean. Yes, a
photo shoot is fascinating and looking at a page I
love still, of course because I am old, but I
also love the moving image, so it's kind of the
union of both.

Speaker 2 (07:34):
It's exciting to experiment with mixing different types of media
that supplement the original print form rather than replace it. Yeah,
it makes it part of a bigger, more holistic product.

Speaker 1 (07:47):
Absolutely, absolutely, But what about your love of fashion, because
your mom was an incredible fashion icon. I mean, did
you grow up surrounded by her closet and loving her
fashion or did you not care? Like how where were you?

Speaker 2 (08:01):
She is very dismissive of her love of fashion. She
does not want to be She's someone who cares about
what she wears and likes clothes, but she doesn't I
don't think she would ever describe herself as a fashion person.
But she was always on best dress lists. And I
remember once I asked her if she was a hippie

(08:24):
because we were talking about how she protested Vietnam, and
she said I was a well dressed hippie.

Speaker 1 (08:30):
I love that so much. I love that so much,
and that's absolutely true. I mean, you do get the
sense that she was this just incredibly beautiful young woman
who kind of just fell into kind of her early
days modeling. It wasn't something that she wanted to do.
It just seemed like people saw her and just wanted
to photograph her.

Speaker 2 (08:50):
Yes, I think that, and she's written about this too,
But I think that part came very easily, and what
was more difficult was getting people to take her see
seriously for other pursuits like photography or writing. And I
was thinking about that because I just watched Mrsca Hargate's
documentary about her mother and my mom Jane and Jane
Mansfield had a similar I think that happened and still

(09:13):
happens to a lot of women who are very beautiful,
where it is hard for them to be taken seriously
for anything beyond superficial attributes. That definitely, I think that's
probably part of why she never leaned into loving fashion
as much as.

Speaker 1 (09:30):
I don't know that.

Speaker 2 (09:31):
She loves fashion, but she loves her own style, and
I think she loves wearing things that make her happy
and bring her joy. And absolutely she's not a vain
person at all, and so she's very interested in.

Speaker 1 (09:46):
Joyful, sort of goofy.

Speaker 2 (09:47):
Things, and it doesn't have to be something that's necessarily
the most flattering or the sheikhist. It's more about dressing
for herself, which I respect.

Speaker 1 (09:57):
I respect that so much, And Sir Jessica is like
this as well. You know, people think that she is
going to have this incredible closet at her house. She
does not. Everything's in you know, storage catalogued, which is incredible,
of course, but you know, she she has like three
things that she wears on repeat, and they're quirky because
she's trying to create, you know, an expression of herself.

(10:18):
She's she's interested in that more so than you know,
the trends or fitting in or having the newest thing
or whatever it is. And that I think is so
strange for people obviously who've grown up watching her as Carrie,
because they think she is going to be carry and
she's not. But I also think it's true for anyone
who achieves that status of being an eight girl or

(10:39):
you know, in whatever era, you're you're kind of pigeonholed.
In that in that kind of moment of time in
a weird, weird way. But I'm still interested in you, Chloe.
So I know your mom, so no matter whether she
wants to say that she's in fashion or not, I
know she has incredible things. So I just want to
know when you were growing up because I have a child, right,
I've two, a boy and girl, and I'm always curious

(11:02):
seven and thirteen. I'm always curious my daughter thirteen year
olds at this time, it is fascinating, right, I mean
so fascinating, and she really doesn't like most of my stuff,
but every once in a while she'll go like, oh,
you know, like light bulb goes off on her, Oh
I want that. And I'm always like really flattered because
they're very picky, very very picky, very very picky tweens, right,

(11:26):
tweens teens, But like what you know, you were surrounded
by these beautiful things. Did you think, oh, gosh, I
love these beautiful things. I understand them. I want to
understand them. I want to wear them. How what was
your relationship thinking back now?

Speaker 2 (11:39):
I mean I have a three year old daughter who
every time she gets dressed or undressed, it's like an operatic,
complete tantrum, and it's completely exhausting. But I do think
about how much I respect how my mom let me
wear whatever I wanted as a teenager, and I wore

(12:01):
some deranged outfish.

Speaker 1 (12:03):
I mean, wait, what year was this? What year was this?

Speaker 2 (12:07):
This was I would say when I was like fourteen fifteen,
so ninety nine, two thousand, I was still living in
la I used to go there was a great vintage
store on Ventura called Iguana Vintage. I would go there
and get like orange swed cowboy boots. There was like
a belt that had a huge clock face on it.

(12:28):
I mean really truly hideous face.

Speaker 1 (12:30):
I love it.

Speaker 2 (12:31):
And she was just always just was like, okay, whatever.
I also like to make a lot of like sort
of craft a lot of my things. I would paint
on my corduroys. I would, you know, cad up a
David Bowie T shirt and make it into a tube top,
which I wore in New York City.

Speaker 1 (12:48):
I mean, oh my gosh, Oh that's very come on,
that's very in. My daughter would be way into that
if I were to allow her to wear such a thing.

Speaker 2 (12:57):
And she, I mean she really let me live that
that truth.

Speaker 1 (13:01):
Wow, wow. Wow when you look at fashion now, because
now these things are coming back in weird ways, like
some of them are coming back and some of them
aren't coming back. I'm very confused personally because I already

(13:23):
lived it right as an adult, Like there are pictures
of us in these things, and so now I'm confused
about what I can wear or should wear. You know
what I'm saying. How do you look at the kind
of comeback of the nineties vibe? I never had a
sort of either a.

Speaker 2 (13:43):
Like an indie sleeze or a grunge or a minimalist period.
I was always very were a lot of colorful, vintage things,
so that those moments that are coming back into cultural
parlance today are not as triggering for me. I will
say that there was a moment I think I was
sixteen or seventeen.

Speaker 1 (14:04):
My mom and I were going to Barney's New York together.
Oh this is so no, this is so much.

Speaker 2 (14:11):
There was a paparazzi photo taken of the two of us,
and my mom looked great. She was in her uniform
of like slacks and a button down and some turquoise earrings,
and I was wearing like sort of vomit colored corduroys
and welly boots that were frogs. Wow, because I had
those as a kid, and then I got them again

(14:33):
as a grown up, and now J. W. Anderson makes
the frog wellies for grown ups that are like seven
hundred dollars. I'm like, you know what, maybe that ouf
it wasn't as.

Speaker 1 (14:44):
Bad as I thought it was. See, it does all
come back around.

Speaker 2 (14:48):
It does, Because seeing that photo, I was like, oh,
maybe I don't look as cool as I think I look.

Speaker 1 (14:56):
I mean, I feel that way anytime I see a
paparazzi picture. You don't, I like, you never feel happy.
I don't think. I mean, I don't know who does.
But I also think that. I mean, I know at
the time, I remember just desperately trying to wear these
things because I felt like I should. And you know,
if I went on a photo shoot, all they would
have would be low slung jeans where you weren't really

(15:19):
supposed to have hips or a rear end or anything
like that, and I would just be sweating bullets trying
to fit myself in there. And I have there's some
pictures of me existing out there where I'm just like,
oh my god, I can't believe I'm wearing that out
in the world, like my abdomen is showing and stuff.
I mean, oh my lord, but you know that's what
we did. I don't know. We were young. We didn't
think that hard about it, and you kind of felt

(15:41):
like it was just going to go away. Yeah it doesn't.
It's back already. Why is it so short now?

Speaker 2 (15:48):
Low jeans don't need to come back for me? Right?

Speaker 1 (15:51):
I respect those who are passionate about them, really really,
I mean, my feeling isn't just no, like I do
not want my daughter wearing well, that's true, Like I
have to draw the line because I can't get her
out of the crop right, and she's very tall. So
if we've got the crop and then we've got the law. No,

(16:12):
it's a lot, it's too much, right, Okay, thank you.
I feel better now, I think because I do struggle, Like,
am I being too controlling? I'm not sure.

Speaker 2 (16:21):
I also think though, that sometimes kids don't realize the
suggestions of things they wear. I have such a specific
memory of there was a brand of T shirts that
they sold at fred Siegel Jet Johnashia Teas that were everywhere.
When I was like thirteen, and it was the cool
thing to get and to wear, and they had sort

(16:41):
of cheeky things written on them, and everyone wanted to
get one that said open twenty four hours and we
didn't get it. We were just like, this is funny,
it's like a diner. And the moms lost their minds
and it was it sort of needed that maternal gut
check to be like, no, no, ladies, this is not

(17:02):
a coffee shop.

Speaker 1 (17:05):
This is your vagina.

Speaker 3 (17:06):
Right.

Speaker 1 (17:06):
It's a very stressful thing as a mom because, like
I've had some conversations with my daughter about this, not
not she doesn't wear anything like that so far, thank goodness,
but you know, just like a general conversation like I
went to the Paris uh you know, uh not what's
it called Roland Garros? You know, the Paris Open? What's

(17:28):
it has been? The French Open? Thank you so much,
the French Open. I went there. I've been before, and
they have this very elaborate like collab store where it's
you know, Lacoste who sponsors it, and then also Wilson
and my youngest my son is named Wilson, so I'm
in there, I know, right, I'm like, this is so exciting,

(17:49):
and you know, we were there because HBO Max whatever
we're supposed to say these days, was airing the tennis.
So we're there and I'm shopping for the kids and
there are these really cute kind of vintage shorts that
had a w on them, but they didn't really have
his size. They had gemesize my daughter. So I thought, oh,
I'm gonna get these because they they have a brother's
name on them. I didn't really realize they were like

(18:11):
kind of short in a vintage kind of a way. Right.
She's all leg you know, and I mean she looks incredible.
Everyone compliments her. I'm just dying, you know. People tell
her you should be a model. I'm just like want
to fall through the planet Earth, you know what I'm saying.
I'm just dying. So I get them for her. Then
I can't tell them that she can't wear them because
I'm like, oh my god, you got I bought them.

(18:32):
But then so then I was like, okay, so we
can't wear a crop top with them. But then I
feel like I'm like so controlling, and then she says,
well why not. I want to feel free, I want
to feel good, and I want to say yes, you
can feel good and you can feel free, just only
in the house.

Speaker 2 (18:47):
It's very tricky, it is, right, and I think it's
much trickier now than it was twenty years ago because
we want to be much more. We want to endorse
her our children's confidence and positivity and make them feel good.
But it's hard to navigate that it is.

Speaker 1 (19:09):
I find it really stressful. And I'm also so curious
about people in fashion and how they look at it,
you know, because I also know there's a huge, you know,
variety of how people parent, you know what I'm saying.
And you know sometimes I mean like when we were
going to talk to you and you sent your favorite outputs,
which we will get to from the show. You know,
it made me start thinking about like there were things

(19:31):
in the show because I grew up in the South
where you know, there was a look, but it was
you know, like I'm pretty sure I had some wide
whale corduroys that had frogs embroidered on them, you know
what I'm saying. Like we were that level, you know
at one point, my parents not so much. But I
wanted to fit in at school and be like super preppy,
which meant all kinds of relatively unflattering things, you know

(19:53):
what I'm saying, But they were in so who cares
when you're a teen, right, Yeah? And I mean then
I went to college in New Jersey at Wrutgers, and
they were just like, what are you wearing? Like, you know, girl,
like come on. And then they took me to Vinson Stores,
which was definitely an expansive, wonderful thing. And I wore
oversized jackets because it was the time of Madonna with

(20:13):
our you know tights, right, and I don't think I've
really had pearls, but you know, we were like, you know,
I've been through many phases, right, this is this is
what it means to be alive this long. But our
own view of fashion, you know, it changes so much. Yeah,
And I remember when we started doing the show, I
just really wanted to look like I fit in because
I didn't have this like fantastic New York background that

(20:35):
Sir Jiska and Cynthia had. I had been an out
of work actress in New York for a few years
before I moved to LA But that's a very different
existence than the characters we were playing, you know, And
we didn't have hardly a budget at all. When I
had Molly Price, our costume designer, and she told me
we had ten thousand dollars for the entire first season.
Oh my god, can you believe that? Wild? I know,

(20:56):
And we hadn't been on the area yet, so no
one was lending us because they didn't know what we
were doing. You know, wasn't there some.

Speaker 2 (21:03):
Great story about the first baguette that like Patricia found
it somewhere or something. Because the idea that what Texas
City did for the baguette, I know, any brand should
be so lucky, and the idea of what that be
beg borrowed and stolen was is fantastic.

Speaker 1 (21:20):
It's true. That was so Sarah Jessica already had a
lot of her relationships because she had been an it girl.
She tells me that I'm wrong when I say this,
I'm like, no, no, I'm sorry. I have to correct you.
I am correct. You are an it girl. She already
had a collection of Manolo's, like a couple hundred pairs
or something, and I remember because I was like, oh,
you know, like so impressed, right, And she tells a

(21:41):
great story of being in La working and Manolo himself
was here at the only store, which I believe was
on the Sunset Strip at the time, and she met
him like on her rainy day, no one was there.
He was doing like a you know show room type
of a you know, trunk show, and she was there
and he made he made shoes for her just because

(22:03):
she was a customer, not because she was an actress.
Where she got to pick the fabric and pick the
heel and you know, all those things. Wow. Then she
ends up shipping them back to New York in em
FedEx and it gets lost, I know, the pain, the pain.
So that was years before we did the show, right,
So she had already started cultivating these relationships because she

(22:23):
has incredible tastes just naturally, you know, and she appreciates,
appreciates well made things and the kind of the craftsmanship
of all of it. So she already when we did
the show with Theirs in the first season, she wears
the naked dress which was Donna Karaen I think, and
that was her own dress that she had worn to
an event, so she already she just went to her
closet got it out because we didn't have money to

(22:44):
get to get amazing things and no designers knew about
us yet, right, so only from her contact did they know.
So she could occasionally say, oh, I'll call and try
to borrow something, and I remember as as myself going
like wow, that is amazing, and it was very clear.
She would always say, like, we have to return it.
If they send something to us, we have to take
such good care of it, we have to return it.

(23:06):
And we'd all be like okay, okay, okay, you know,
like like trying to be just the best the best girls,
you know what I'm saying, and return everything pristine so
that they would lend again because the show really needed it, right,
which you know, I think in some ways was great
training because she already had been through it and could
could be an example to us of how to make

(23:27):
those relationships. Like in the olden days, we would go
to fashion week, which was it wasn't everyone and their
brother like it is now, right, would just be us.
And I remember spending a whole day just going from
like this show, that that show, to this show to
that show, and it was so exciting because it was
you know, back back, you know, when it was a
Brian park and it was amazing and you were just
trying to be there for the designers so that maybe

(23:48):
when you called them and asked for something, they might
send it, right, like trying to make did a relationship. Yeah,
it works great because the show was on at that
point right right, So yes, it worked really well. But
also like for me, it was finding people that fit
Charlotte's style and that fit my body because we were
asking for sample sizes, right, which of course created its
own stress. Sure, sample sizes are not easy, and in

(24:10):
the two thousands back I was started a while ago,
this is my problem on the podcast. I'd ramble. I
would go to photo shoots and they would have literally
just like white jeans, low slung white jeans, and I
would just be trying to get them on. I couldn't
get them on, and I'd just be like, you guys,
could you possibly get an airline screwed? Like anything? And

(24:30):
I would feel so bad, you know, it's terrible. It
was very stressful. It was very stressful. The nineties, the
late nineties is when we started the show. It was
really hard because there there was just like the look,
you know, there wasn't a lot of variety, you know
what I'm saying, of course, and now I feel like
it's much better. I don't feel like it's over. I
think there is still, you know, a lot of pressure

(24:54):
to be thin in the modeling world, for sure.

Speaker 2 (24:57):
We talk about this a lot here and good the
rise of skinny talk, which I think is so toxic
and terrible, and I mean, GLP ones have completely changed
the conversation around body positivity. I think a lot of
people in fashion are skinnier than they've ever been, and
it's startling, and it means that it's self perpetuating because

(25:20):
then the samples are smaller than the models stay small
and it's hard to overcome that.

Speaker 1 (25:27):
It's so true, and I think it's also you know
what people, I think sometimes people don't realize how hard
it is as an actress to get the designers to
dress you because they want to send you the sample
sizes because they can't make everything in your size right.
They just don't have the capacity to make like a
one of a kind that they haven't made for the stores,

(25:48):
and obviously you're trying to wear it before it's in
the stores. It's like a whole kind of like domino
effect of the way the fashion world works that you
don't really know about until you get into it. But
like just to get to borrow the clothes, you have
to fit into them. Yeah, and it's not easy and
depending on the designer, that's what it's so important for

(26:09):
me to find, Like the Oscar de Lorenta samples fit me,
thank god, yeah, thank god. And Rolf Lauren thank god
because that was very Charlotte. So it worked out. But
you know, those were relationships where once I figured that out,
I had to really cultivate those and thank goodness, they
were very kind to us and they still are. But
back to the baget, because I haven't answered you yet,
I asked Sarah Jessica, when did it begin that we

(26:30):
could borrow the things from the people, the designer things,
And the baguette was the first thing.

Speaker 4 (26:35):
Oh interesting, Yeah, so she I believe had a relationship,
had bought one or maybe more so she already loved
it that you know, she was very she would do
her research right, so like she wouldn't just casually necessarily
wear something right unless it was vintage, in which case
she would casually wear it, but in terms of the.

Speaker 1 (26:56):
Current fashion trends at the time and now. Also she
would really study, like you know, do I love it?
What I carry it? Is it functional? All of her
different things and the bagget was already something that she loved,
and so maybe she brought her own one time and
then we started that relationship and they would send her

(27:16):
possibly thirty at a time, like I being like ah.
And they were so beautiful, hand beaded, like sequin, beating, painting, velvet,
everything you could imagine. And I also remember that we
would have these coffee table scenes and or restaurant scenes
before we had the coffee shop built, and we it
would always be a struggle like where are we going

(27:37):
to put the bags? Because you couldn't always hang your
bag and true New Yorkers don't really hang their bag
on the back of the chair. This was much discussed
amongst us because me being a Southerner, I hang my
bag on the back of the chair and they'd always
be like Kristen, no, and I'd be like okay. So
then you're like, where do I put it? Where do
I put it?

Speaker 2 (27:53):
In?

Speaker 1 (27:53):
For Sir Jessica, she wanted people to see this beautiful,
beautiful backget because what if she wasn't also in a
walk and talk. So we have done scenes where the
bag get is where the plate should be, you know
what I mean, And she would just make it work.

Speaker 2 (28:05):
It's true, I do kind of sort of can visualize that, right,
But it works for Carrie, it totally works, and she
would make it work. Miranda would never, but it works
for Carrie.

Speaker 1 (28:15):
No, that's exactly right. That's exactly right. And that was
how that relationship began. And I feel like that was
the beginning of people realizing that we that we could
and wanted to, you know, have brands on and feature
them and do justice to them and wear them, you know,
beautifully hopefully, and all of that, which really changed the show,

(28:35):
you know, because we can never, never have afforded all
that stuff, not even now, you know. And just like that,
I mean, we're still begging people regularly.

Speaker 2 (28:46):
Bag at beggars, bag at.

Speaker 1 (28:48):
Beggars, and or any any literally anything else.

Speaker 2 (28:52):
I always think of the scene when Carrie goes to
La and tries to buy a fake bag get and
then the guy takes her in the back and opens
up like his trunk and it's just all these fake
bag gets in plastic wrap, and she just recoils in
horror and she's like, I can't see them like this
sort of backtracks and it's like I can't do it.

Speaker 1 (29:13):
Oh my god, And how wonderful because that's still such
an issue totally.

Speaker 2 (29:18):
And I also think of that scene whenever I walk
by the vendors on Fifth like selling like forty goy
yard bags in like old plastic. It's like, yeah, it
ruins the magic, it really does.

Speaker 1 (29:30):
But I mean, yeah, it's an interesting thing. It's an
interesting thing, like like you know, it is obviously, I mean,
we could go down a whole rabbit hole of you know,
child labor and whatnot. But I mean it's it's a problem.
But I also kind of understand because I feel like
with social media, this whole kind of you know, like
feeling the need to have all the things like ourmes

(29:53):
and the you know, it's gotten so intense. Yeah, it's
kind of scary, So I get. I get that people
would want to get one. However, wait that they could.

Speaker 2 (30:04):
What's the thing that all the thirteen year olds want
right now? Like when I was thirteen and going.

Speaker 1 (30:09):
To Bob mitziause it was a cat spade purse, Like,
what is the thing that's adorable? You know? My daughter, luckily,
is not so much into that, which is probably why
I was asking you. I mean, the look here in
LA is largely, you know, really baggy pants, some of
them a little lower than I would like, but still baggy,
which is good, and like crop top and like jerseys

(30:32):
you know, like that are tied up and sometimes they
do cut things still, which I did as a youth
as well. I think that's like evergreen and then I can't.
I mean, there are there. I think at thirteen, the
big fascination is will your mom let you wear heels?

Speaker 2 (30:49):
Oh? Interesting, that's so interesting you say that because a
few weeks ago I went to have dinner with my
mom at the Cherry, Netherland, and I walked in and
there was like a line of twelve and thirteen year
olds waiting to go down to the Doubles Club, which
is like this subterranean, like very waspy club wow in
the shary Netherlands, but it is known for becoming the

(31:10):
location for boys schools and girls schools have their dances
there Wow. And so these girls were all waiting to
go in and they'll look for all of them. It
was an exact uniform was tub top or tank top,
mini skirt, this short and like high air Jordans high

(31:30):
it was all sneakers. It was all sneakers and mini
skirts and daughters like, oh, I guess they don't want
heels anymore, because that.

Speaker 1 (31:36):
Was when I was that age.

Speaker 2 (31:38):
It was very much the garments for circuit and it
was like how high a heel can you wear?

Speaker 1 (31:44):
Right? Right? I think it's both. I mean, I wonder
if that's a New York City thing because they had
to maybe potentially walk somewhere. I don't know, maybe not,
maybe they took a number. Yeah, because my daughter definitely
wears her high air Jordans and or her high Converse
with dresses. That's it. There's no debate. But she's very tall,
as I said, and I have absolutely said, I'm so
sorry you cannot wear heels because my entire you know,

(32:04):
ankles are pretty much ruined. So I'm not wanting her
at thirteen to start down that road. You know, she
has a few years. Yeah, give her a few years
for sure. But there are some smaller girls who are
her friends who do have I think that Kate Spade
is still very desired. Oh that's nice to hear, like
a little Kate Spade heel. You know what I'm saying,

(32:25):
like kind of a cute Kate Spade hill, But yes,
the miniskirt and the tube top and or tank. It's
a situation, you know, it's a situation. Yeah, it's a
no at my house, right, at least not at the
same time. Right. So that's what I'm really trying to
focus on. But okay, let's talk about I can't even

(32:46):
decide which thing talk to you about, but I do
want to talk a little bit more about the show
and fashion and your relationship to the show and fashion,
Like when did you start watching the show? Did you
know your mom was on the show? When did you
pay attention fashion wise? How in what order did those
things happen? Good question?

Speaker 2 (33:02):
When I started watching the show, I don't remember when did.

Speaker 1 (33:05):
The show air? We started in ninety eight.

Speaker 2 (33:08):
Okay, so I think I started watching it a few
years later, in like two thousand, when I would have
been fifteen.

Speaker 1 (33:13):
Got it?

Speaker 2 (33:14):
And what did I respond to the most when I
first started watching it?

Speaker 1 (33:19):
Fashion wise?

Speaker 2 (33:21):
I think even at fifteen and living in Los Angeles,
I was captivated by the things Carrie war but absolutely
found them to be ludicrous and not realistic. I was
like a very unfun, pragmatic fifteen year old, and I
was like, this is ridiculous. She can't wear this, she

(33:41):
can't wear this tiny you know whatever. But I loved
it and I found it delightful. I do have a
very specific memory of watching the finale.

Speaker 1 (33:53):
Of Sex and the City.

Speaker 2 (33:55):
I had some girlfriends over to my stepfather's apartment in
New York and we were all watching it together and
my stepfather was sort of mystified and took our golden doodle, Jerry,
for a walk and walked up past the restaurant we
used to go to every Sunday night, Vico, and he
was like, Oh, we couldn't come tonight because the girls

(34:15):
are watching some show and her Vico is like, everybody
inside watching this show.

Speaker 1 (34:21):
No one comes tonight.

Speaker 2 (34:22):
Like it was like the Super Bowl was the SADC finale?

Speaker 1 (34:26):
That's adorable, there really were, you know.

Speaker 2 (34:29):
I do miss those sort of cultural moments of that
Streaming has taken away a little bit.

Speaker 1 (34:36):
You know.

Speaker 2 (34:36):
There are shows that have a you know, a weekly
rollout like and just like that. But I do miss
that group anticipation around a viewing moment. And I do
have a very specific memory of going to the shoot
day that was at the Vogue offices at four Times Square.

(34:57):
How great, which is very fun because then and fifteen
years later I was working there and I just remember
the row of desks along the wall where the fashion
department used to sit. And I loved Carrie's outfit. I
always loved Carrie's use of brooches.

Speaker 1 (35:16):
I thought, Carrie, did they love the brooches. Great brooch
work from Carrie totally. They're still up to that brooch work.

Speaker 2 (35:24):
And in the Vogue Idea episode when she goes to
meet with Enid, she is wearing this amazing I think
it's a Vivian Westwood, Yes, pinstriped skirts suit org with
a cameo broach and she looks fantastic.

Speaker 1 (35:38):
And that is a real dream outfit for me. Yep,
exactly when I got married, Charlotte myself whichever got married too,

(36:00):
that I was supposed to wear this approach that Bunny
gave me, that we were supposed to think was hideous,
and it turned it into this whole drama because it
was really beautiful and Pat and Molly Molly Rogers, who
was Pat's assistant the whole time and who is now
our costume Designer on and just like that and also

(36:21):
currently doing the Devil Worst partuct because I text her
this morning and she was in fitting with n Hathaway,
So then I had to text Sara Jessica. But I
have an answer to something that you are going to
bring up. But they all love brooches, Molly Southern also
and Sarah Jessica. Again, this is about the craftmanship. I believe,
you know, like to make a broach the traditional way
is an artistry, and she has such appreciation of that.

(36:43):
So I remember that this brooch that I wore, which
I was supposed to complain about, that Bunny gave me,
and I felt this pressure to wear it, et cetera,
et cetera. It was gorgeous and so we had to
cut all those lines. Oh my god, you know. And
I still have it at home, which because it is
gorgeous and it is do you wear it?

Speaker 3 (37:00):
No?

Speaker 1 (37:00):
I don't, because when I'm getting dressed, I don't think
about like how creative can I be? I think how
can I look nice and not call too much attention
to myself? Those are my two considerations. Shouldn't saying like
how did you both? But I should get those things
out more often. You know, I should because I have them.
I mean, maybe one day my daughter will like them.
I don't know who knows, who knows? But okay, so

(37:22):
let's go back to you. So you remember when your
mom was doing the show and you went to the set,
and what were your thoughts? Were you like, Wow, this
is cool? Like what'd you think?

Speaker 3 (37:30):
Yes?

Speaker 2 (37:31):
I thought it was interesting.

Speaker 1 (37:32):
I thought it was cool.

Speaker 2 (37:33):
I wanted to be a writer when I was very young,
so I was very interested in I forget. I meant
to rewatch the episode, but I forget how much carry
is paid.

Speaker 1 (37:41):
I think it's four dollars a word. Yeah, I haven't
written down here somewhere is it for fifty a ward?
It's four dollars? Then she gets it up to four
fifty a ward. Yes, what did you think of that?
How reach?

Speaker 2 (37:50):
I was like, Oh, it's by word interesting, I'm learning
things right right? Also now laughable of four dollars a word?

Speaker 1 (37:57):
But what do you mean? It's just most people making two.

Speaker 2 (38:01):
Dollars or less a word, I would say at this point,
and that's for print, for web, it's much less than that.

Speaker 1 (38:08):
Oh yeah, that's so said. But this is what I
don't understand. I knew that there was a per word.
You know, traditionally this is how writers were paid for
magazines and whatnot. But are you is there also like
a salary?

Speaker 3 (38:21):
No?

Speaker 1 (38:22):
Oh yeah, but what about like benefits?

Speaker 2 (38:27):
Well, if you're freelance writer, you're not getting benefits.

Speaker 1 (38:29):
But like one like in your previous incarnation when you
were doing the weddings and the girl and the whatnot.

Speaker 2 (38:34):
Oh then I didn't Then I did not get paid
any per word.

Speaker 1 (38:37):
I was just had a salary. Okay, but did you
get benefits?

Speaker 2 (38:41):
Yes, okay, okay, oh yeah no.

Speaker 1 (38:43):
If there's then there's no per word. Got it, got it?

Speaker 2 (38:46):
Got it? Just on staff and you're writing whatever you're
told to.

Speaker 1 (38:49):
Got it.

Speaker 2 (38:50):
But if you're a freelancer and you're being paid per
word like Carrie was, I mean, people back in the
day used to make a lot per word, you know.
Michael Lewis apparently would make ten dollars a word Vanity Fair,
Plum Sykes used to make six dollars a word at Vogue. Wow,
plump sex was in our movie. Yes, I remember that.
I love that scene. I have to say I rewatched

(39:10):
that on a plane a year or two ago, and
It was such a delight because it really was a
very accurate representation of a Bogue shoot. No way to
have Patrick and Andrea and Plumb likeay.

Speaker 1 (39:23):
It really was.

Speaker 2 (39:25):
Very much what really goes on. And you don't see
that depicted that often. That's so true.

Speaker 1 (39:31):
I mean we knew all of them separately, just from
the world. And I was one time in Aspen. We
used to do the Comedy Festival. The HBO Comedy Festival
was an Aspen every year, and Andre was there for
some reason, which was fantastic, and we went on a
the horse drawn sleigh ride together up the mountain in
this crazy snowstorm, and of course he had his fur

(39:53):
had on in his fur and you know, he was
just so much delight, exactly doctor Chevago, because Andre lived big,
you know, Yeah, it was like he created his own
atmosphere that he desired. He was such a joy and
so kind, so kind. And that day that we filmed
because Willie and I I believe are in that scene

(40:17):
watching rest and I remember that our wardrobes had to
be approved by Funny Miss Wintour.

Speaker 2 (40:27):
Likes to get her hand up in the mix exactly.

Speaker 1 (40:29):
We were like anything she wants, anything, she wants. She
and Michael Patrick worked very closely together and that's probably
why it is accurate. And then I remember when Plumb
got there. She walked over and she was like, oh, yes,
this is fine, and I was like, thank god, thank
god you guys. I'm okay. I'm okay in my very
tight roder skirt.

Speaker 2 (40:47):
Another scene I remember loving even as a teenager with
Enid was when Enid and Carrie run into each other
and at the restaurant. At the restaurant, I forget what happens,
but she says something about like having it all, and then.

Speaker 1 (41:05):
She oh, no, she says, you can't have it all.

Speaker 2 (41:07):
So I have a boyfriend who you know, I'm above
fourteenth Street and he has a different girlfriend below fourteenth Street.
You can't have it all. And then she goes to
Carrie's book party and runs into the boyfriend with his
other girlfriend because they're in no man's land. And I
thought that was a great I remember thinking, it's it's true,

(41:28):
you can't really have it all, and you do sacrifice things,
and it'll be interesting to see what I choose to sacrifice.

Speaker 1 (41:36):
Oh, that's interesting. So like, as a personal point of reference,
you thought, oh, this will be interesting.

Speaker 2 (41:42):
I just I think it's nice to be reminded. I
think I grew up during a period a sort of
post Gloria steinem everyone women can have whatever they want moment,
and so I was raised thinking that was the case,
and it was helpful to be reminded that mathematically it
just isn't possible.

Speaker 1 (42:02):
I think that's fantastic. Yeah, I think that by the
time we made that show, who knows where I was
at with that personally. But I also I grew up
with Miss magazine on our coffee table. You know, it
was very important. But I also was surrounded in the
South by a very different reality than what was presented
in your magazine, right, So I was already in this
very you know, strange like what is true? I don't

(42:26):
know what is true. I guess you find what you
would like to be true and created or moved or
whatever it is, which is what I did. But still
I do think there was definitely a pervasive message around
I feel like the eighties, the late eighties, early nineties
of like you can have it all. You know, you're
going to be a boss baby, and you're gonna have
your babies on your hip. From all those magazine shoots

(42:47):
where the bottles would other babies or a baby, a
P ten baby, I don't know, on their hip, like
it was one of these baby. Do you remember that
it was a lot and then occasionally their own baby,
and you were just like, wow, that is so impressive.
But I mean not easy and very rare, you know.
And I think by the point that we made that show,

(43:08):
we all really knew that because we were doing the
show and it was really all consuming in so many ways,
and everyone was, you know, trying to live their lives
at the same time, and it was not easy at all.
So I think that's probably why that show got written.
But I mean, I haven't gotten to that point in rewatching.
But I love that you remember it. I love that
you remember it, and I love that your mom has

(43:29):
been in the role of ing it over the years.
It's so great and so fascinating. And sometimes I feel
and I wonder how you feel being over there in
the world of the real Vogue. Sometimes I feel like
we almost have to sugarcut the harshness of that business,
you know, like sugarcoat I should have said, or undercut

(43:50):
whatever less in the what we're actually saying, which is
it's kind of brutal. Yeah, do you feel that?

Speaker 2 (43:57):
Yeah, I mean, I feel like I work in the
fashion business, but I also very much feel like I work.

Speaker 1 (44:04):
In the news business.

Speaker 2 (44:05):
And because I'm doing the website and our news might
be Taylor Swift and Travis Kelsey went on a dinner date,
but it's still news, and it's still timely, and those
kind of urgent, reactive moments are very can be quite
stressful and feel like you have to.

Speaker 1 (44:23):
Be constantly on and responding.

Speaker 2 (44:25):
So I do feel like it's not this sort of
the just the joy of the Vogue closet kind of thing,
which doesn't really exist.

Speaker 1 (44:33):
Let's discuss let's discuss the Vogue closet, because at one
point where it wasn't your podcast set in a Vogue closet,
which I was like, I don't think that that's well, that.

Speaker 2 (44:41):
Actually is the Vogue closet, And they did design it
to be a place where we could film interviews, which
I thought was a great idea because you have the
wall of shoes behind you.

Speaker 1 (44:49):
Yeah, it's beautiful.

Speaker 2 (44:50):
I say, it doesn't really exist in the way that
we see it depicted on screen, because there's not tons
of clothes there that just live there. Clothes are called
in for shoots, they are you know, under lock and key.
The Manolo's actually are kept behind locked doors, and there
are shoes that live there permanently because often for a

(45:10):
shoot you'll call in close but a stylist will say, oh,
but I just need a classic Manolo BB pump to
go with it, so they'll unlock the Manola cabinet and
take out the BB pump. But no, I mean the
closet is a very controlled space that's really a way
station between shoot and going back to wherever they were
borrowed from.

Speaker 1 (45:31):
Got it? And someone's keeping track?

Speaker 2 (45:33):
Oh yes, it's a whole team of women and gentlemen
keeping track.

Speaker 1 (45:39):
Do you think, like if you think about the Devilwar's
product and the the you know, pressure on all of
those assistant girls, yeah, to look a certain way and
also to be you know, beyond excellent at their jobs.
How do you how do you? I mean, I know
it was a comedy, obviously I should should say that,
but how do you think about that in terms of

(45:59):
your own experience?

Speaker 2 (46:01):
Well, I will say that I never had the privilege
of being Anna's assistant, so I don't have a first
hand experience of that, but I do find just judging
from Anna's to assistance right now, Sammy and they both
look great.

Speaker 1 (46:18):
And have fun with that.

Speaker 2 (46:20):
You know, is today is wearing a bright red shirt
dress and she looks fabulous and she has fun with it.
So I don't feel that the pressure and this stress
of having to look a certain way is what's dictating
that's how they're dressing. I also think that things are
very different at Vogue now than they were twenty years ago.

Speaker 1 (46:44):
I do.

Speaker 2 (46:45):
I mean, I remember when I started fifteen years ago,
everyone was in high heels all day, and now you're
hard pressed to find someone wearing heels.

Speaker 1 (46:52):
It's just a different environment. Yeah, I definitely content ask
when we went, I was surprised. I think we saw
maybe a few people, but definitely there was a sense
of fun with fashion. There was a whole variety of
what people were wearing in the building.

Speaker 3 (47:14):
Hi, I'm Nicole Phelps, Global director of Vogue, Runway in
Vogue Business and host of the run Through podcast. Every Tuesday,
join me for the latest fashion news, like the shakeups
of Balenciaga and Dior, and what's trending in Paris and Milan.
You'll also hear interviews with top designers from Mark Jacobs
and Rick Owens to Daniel Roseberry, Sarah Burton and many more.

(47:35):
On Thursdays, Chloe Maall, editor of Vogue dot Com and
cho Minnati, head of editorial Content at British Vogue, take
you behind the scenes at Vogue and share their thoughts
on fashion through the lens of culture. You'll hear interviews
with some of your favorite stars like Julianne Moore, Pharrell Williams,
and celebrity stylist law Roach. Join us to get your
fashion and culture news twice a week. Listen to The

(47:56):
run Through with Vogue every Tuesday and Thursday wherever you
get your podcasts.

Speaker 1 (48:04):
First of all, I just want to tell you what
I was texting Molly Dodger's are costume designer and Sarah
Jeska about is the vintage chanel? Yes? Yes, it's a repeat,
right it's not. Oh, there's a lot of debate. I
know that it looks like it is and there's a
lot of a lot of confusion online about it. So
she wore this pink version back in the first show,

(48:25):
and then this version she wore and just like that
is purple. So it's not that Sarah Jessica went to
her archives and got it out, because I think we
were already in the midst of shooting and she didn't
have time. I think that Chanelle sent it or Molly
found it. That was the thing where Molly's fitting in
Hathaway and I couldn't bother her. She she apologizes, but
you know they Molly and Danny are costume designers. They

(48:49):
work for six months before we get going, and they
go to vintage stores and you know, England and France
and Palm Beach and you know wherever right, and they
find all kinds of random things. So I think Mollie
found it somewhere and remembered the other one because she
remembers everything. So she brought it and she asked, Sir Jessica,
will you wear this as a callback? So you are
a callback? Then an actual rewaar was that online? Everybody

(49:13):
was like because also I think it has a logo
and a different place on the back. Funny, I know,
but you know the exactly they're on it. Okay, they're
on it. So I had to check in with Sir
Jeska and she said No, it was the closest we
could find. Oh that's so funny. Yes, but she didn't
go and rummage into her archive. I think sometimes she
goes and gets things from her archive in advance, like,

(49:34):
for instance, the Vivian Westwood wedding dress to wear to
the met Ball, when we know that there's a big
plot point where she has to get something. I think
she got the was it. I can't remember the huge
millful dress. You know, Yes, she got that pair of
new right, Like, if there's something like that, she will
go and get it out. But I don't think this

(49:54):
Chanelle was that. I think this Chanelle was molly up
to her tricks and Sir Jeska going on with it
and it was a joy to see. I enjoyed it.
My going out at night outfit was really fun to create.
Oh my God, made me laugh so much.

Speaker 2 (50:07):
Thank you because I loved you and Harry together and
it completely I really feel for parents trying to go out.

Speaker 1 (50:16):
I ride right now. Oh yeah, and can you imagine
like also the work pressure, you know, which probably might
feel I don't know. I sometimes feel the work pressure,
though not in the way of like you're actually selling
art after hours. You know what I'm saying, like, that's
a very specific thing. So this was really fun because
we knew it was coming. We were, you know, working
on it for a while. This was our costume department

(50:36):
at it's best, where they're mixing and matching pieces. It
looks like it's one outfit, but it's totally every single
piece is a different designer. I've got my little tiny chanel,
very impractical but adorable bag slung across me so that
I don't have to put it down, right. I have
the Galliano may Marcella of course, which'll have a housing right.

(50:58):
I've worn it many times. It is a okay, a
dream right. And we were a little concerned about the cleavage.
So at one point Molly wanted to put some chiffon
across the top and we played with that, but then
it kind of messed with the silhouette, so we took
it off and kept it pure. I've got an Achris
skirt on. I have Oh do you know Brioni Jeweler.

(51:21):
She sent me that beautiful it's like her rosette necklace
to die for. And then we needed a little short bolero,
so Christian Siriano made me a little short Bilero and
Molly went and picked the fabric, which was perfect, so sweet. Yeah,
and it was it was It was such a creation,
and I had to wear it through so many different
scenes and we would, you know, take the jacket up,

(51:43):
you know, and then I have to walk out in
the morning and you know, smear my eye makeup and everything.
But it was a good time and everything stayed intact.
I was slightly worried that something was going to happen
to that very expensive necklace and that dance sequence, but
it did not. We made it through with maybe a
few drinks spilled on the outfit, but that's nothing we
couldn't fix, right, Okay, So then this is the most

(52:04):
interesting thing. You say, your favorite outfits from the first show.
And no one in my life has ever sent me
so many of Charlotte's lingerie looks. I love Charlotte's nineties.

Speaker 2 (52:14):
I have such specific memories of being like, oh, I
guess you can wear pretty things to bed because I
like button down, like I like like what I love Lucy,
what Lucille and Lucy and DESI would wear to bed?

Speaker 1 (52:27):
Me too, Yes, me too. I wish Charlotte Charlotte wears Yeah, totally, totally.
I mean, this thing, oh my god. I mean, I
don't know who made it. I think it was like
not a great designer. I don't want to hurt anyone's feelings,
but it was something like you know when Charlotte when
we go to Atlantic City and I get that TACKI
dress in the in the store. In this case, you know,

(52:49):
it was like that, like when Charlotte is trying to
be sexy or what she thinks of as sexy, and
it's way outside her normal purview. That's what this seathrew
thing is. And I remember being scared out of my
wits to film that scene and to walk out in
this outfit and very stressed about what underwear to wear
underneath it. Well, because it see through. I was like

(53:11):
calling my manager, like what should I do? You can
kind of see my breasts, Like, oh, I'm scared out
of my mind. So I mean, I look at it
now and I'm like, that's not really so much of
a thing, but at the time it seemed like it. Yeah, no,
Charlotte's Nightties.

Speaker 2 (53:27):
And I have to give credit here when our producer
emailed me and said, you need to choose your top
ten favorite Carrie and Charlotte looks. I immediately took out
the bat phone to two of my best friends who
are encyclopedic academics of the SATC Cannon, And immediately my

(53:47):
friend parents sent me like Charlotte's nightties like fourteen images
and oh yeah, so that was and something I did love,
but I'm not sure I would have thought of that
without that.

Speaker 1 (53:57):
Tell her thank you, Tell me, thank you.

Speaker 2 (53:58):
I appreciate it.

Speaker 1 (53:59):
My there's this one from first season which I think
is just like a you know, department store, possibly possibly
like not La Perloa because we couldn't afford it, but
maybe like Notori. We did wear a fair amount of Notry.
And then we get into the vintage look, which at
a certain point in the Tray relationship, I do actually

(54:19):
have vintage because I was trying to pretend that I
was Elizabeth Taylor and count on a Hotton roof right,
which works for so many different ways.

Speaker 2 (54:27):
And then is a foreshadowing of the King Charles Spaniel.

Speaker 1 (54:34):
All connected, yes, And then we did discuss the beautiful Westwood.
Sarah has such a great history of wearing Westwood, and
I think wears it so so beautifully. I always love
it any Westwood time. Oh my god, then we have
this look. Now, this would be one of the times
where I would have been like, oh, you know, like
have a very Charlotte type reaction, but this woman can
pull it off.

Speaker 2 (54:54):
These hot pants with this newsboy cap and the bag yett.

Speaker 1 (54:58):
It was. It's just one of those.

Speaker 2 (55:02):
Er carry looks where you're like, this is ridiculous and
just exactly what we want.

Speaker 1 (55:09):
And also I don't think you have it in here.
But do you remember the tiny green skirt with a
little fluff frill on the back.

Speaker 2 (55:15):
Yes, it had a little tail, like a little feather.

Speaker 1 (55:18):
Concerned, I was like, oh god, she's gonna be on
the streets, and that she's gonna be okay, no way.
I have a really good memory of this Miranda look.
This Miranda look is you know, a a a one
of the Halloween costumes that people sometimes wear, which I love.
And this is when I think we're in Brian Park,
the actual park, and she's wearing this and Sarah Jessica's

(55:41):
wearing basically a Heidi outfit. Oh yes, it's true. Do
you remember she has like pink cheeks and she might
have pretend freckles even like She's so ahead of her time.
And I'm wearing like a bucket hat, which is not
my favorite, but Pat was brillianta hats Like Pat would
have a theme and like a vision, and then we
would all be part of it, and you just had
tod of like lift through it. And I remember having

(56:02):
one of the like a little Charlotte type speech, like
where I go on some kind of a rant, and
I had Cynthia in this one outfit on one side
and Sarah in the Heidi on the other side, and
I remember just breaking into giggles, like I just couldn't focus.
I just was like, I don't know where to look.
I'm just gonna look at Cam because I don't know
where to look. It makes me laugh. But you know,
this is what the show is great at, is just

(56:24):
being creative and thinking outside the box. And I give
so much credit to Pat and to our directors and
executive producers for allowing us to do so truly right,
because I mean it all worked in the end and
it was part of the fun, right completely.

Speaker 4 (56:40):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (56:41):
Okay, here we have Sarah in the Dior by Galliano.

Speaker 2 (56:44):
Everyone talks about this dress, but I do feel like
it's taken on a new life of its own with
Jenna or Tago Worerett and I just have to say,
you know, as someone who works in print media, print
is not dead.

Speaker 1 (56:54):
It's on that dress, thank god, right, thank god. And
I remember this at the time. This was a special
dress for a special scene where they really planned ahead,
and you know, there's so much thought that Sarah, Jessica,
Pat and Bally would put into kind of those special moments,
and they that this dress might have come in early,
and then they save it. They kind of hot try

(57:15):
to hide it, but you know, they always need things
for shoots, so then they have to let it go.
And then they're like, oh, I hope they send it
your dress back. Oh I hope they send that dress
and let us keep it long enough. And then when
Jenna Ortega wore it, it was incredible. And we discussed
this to somebody on our recent press press tour and
Sara Jessica was very much a fan, which was so nice.
We have all the important things except for the hat.

(57:36):
Do you want to talk about the hat really briefly? Sure?

Speaker 2 (57:39):
I love this hat because I'm I'm very into sun
protection and I respect that Carrie leaned into Gingham for
this good call.

Speaker 1 (57:48):
I feel the same way, and it goes so perfectly
with the Aussie Clark. I think that people are so
strange that they want to criticize this. Yes, I find
that wacky, like why not?

Speaker 3 (57:58):
No?

Speaker 1 (57:58):
Let what she wants?

Speaker 3 (58:00):
Right?

Speaker 1 (58:00):
Yes, it's fun. I agree. I agree. I'm happy that
you like it. You have been such a joy, Chloe.
Thank you so much Christmas.

Speaker 2 (58:07):
It's such a treat.

Speaker 1 (58:08):
Okay, bye bye