July 31, 2025 • 35 mins
The man who ran HBO during the creation and development of SATC, Chris Albrecht, joins Kristin to take us back to its inception. Kristin can't hold back the emotion as she thanks Chris for the gift that is Sex and the City.
Chris reveals how the show was a game changer for HBO, casting what ifs and how devastated he was by the show ending.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hi, I'm Kristin Davis, and I want to know are
you a Charlotte? Hello, everybody, welcome to Are You a Charlotte?
Today we are talking to someone so incredible. It is
Chris Albrech, who was the head of HBO Original Programming
and the CEO of HBO in general. And he is
(00:23):
the person who greenlit Sex and the City, who also
green lit the Sopranos, and who really put us all
together and you know, was there for the formation and
development of the show basically, and we owe so much
to him. So it's going to be a really fascinating conversation.
Here we go.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
Hey, how are you, Chris? I'm good. How are you?
I'm will It's so nice to see you. Thank you
for the invite.
Speaker 1 (00:48):
Oh my god, I'm so excited you're here. I talked
to Michael Patrick yesterday. I have so many things to say.
He sends love and messages. It's thrilling to have you.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
Great congratulations on the news.
Speaker 3 (01:01):
I mean it's sort of a new show now in
the third season or whatever, but yeah, it's so great.
Speaker 4 (01:05):
It's so interesting, isn't it.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
And I you know, we are going to jump right
in because I really, really just have to honor your
place in really creating us.
Speaker 4 (01:17):
You know, like we think about you and might cry.
Speaker 5 (01:20):
I'm feeling very emotional lately, but you know, it's just
been such a journey and we wouldn't even be here
if you hadn't been so brave and like out front,
you know, creating, just purely creating.
Speaker 1 (01:34):
That's how I think of HBO when when I met you, guys,
how do you think of it?
Speaker 2 (01:39):
You know, I think of HBO as it was.
Speaker 3 (01:42):
It was a vehicle to be able to provide talented
people to come together in what's a collaborative medium, right
What we do is a collaborative medium, talk about things
that had a point of view, were relatable to the
human experience, and luckily, because of our business model, we
were able to provide them with the resources to realize
(02:04):
their vision. And kind of luckily, especially in the beginning
when we first started with Sex and the City, nobody
was paying attention to us, so we had a chance.
What did you do things that real grond ums might
not let.
Speaker 1 (02:15):
Us do totally totally, and we didn't have advertisers, which
I mean, we obviously understand, but not everyone listening will
realize how different the landscape was at the time.
Speaker 2 (02:25):
Absolutely.
Speaker 3 (02:26):
I mean, television was supported by companies, you know, marketing
their products, and they wanted to have marketing that would
bring in the biggest audiences, and that meant not offending people.
So you know, programs were a lot more mild tempered,
even if they were you know, core thrillers or cop traumas.
(02:50):
And also couldn't take a stronger point of view about
what people really went through because you might offend somebody.
Speaker 2 (02:59):
Was really the bottom, and we didn't. Not only didn't
we kind.
Speaker 3 (03:02):
Of worry about that, but we were not as a
badge of honor that we were trying to offend people,
but we wanted to really get people to look at us.
Speaker 2 (03:09):
And say, I can relate to that.
Speaker 3 (03:10):
I mean, I think Sex and the City is the
perfect example of a show that so many people related to,
even if they didn't live in you know, New York City,
even if they weren't you know, upwardly mobile professional women
in their early thirties. And I would say, you know,
I'm not sure if the show was set in Cleveland
(03:32):
you would watch it, But if the show if you
were in Cleveland, you definitely got it right.
Speaker 1 (03:37):
So I remember, like you, you were at HBO from
I believe in the eighties, right eighty five.
Speaker 4 (03:43):
Amazing.
Speaker 1 (03:44):
So when I thought of HBO, HBO was this thing
that was like really expensive and you hoped you could
afford it, and it had a lot of sports and
then movies, and then in a way you just started slowly.
Speaker 4 (03:57):
Growing the original programming. Is that accurate?
Speaker 3 (04:00):
Yeah, you know, we had a real opportunity when there
was a change in the top leadership when Jeff Buchers
came in to be the CEO and I got moved
up to the head of programming and technology. Was our
friend a k BAN satellite DirecTV Dish. They were coming in,
they were bringing a new revenue, and we were doing
really well.
Speaker 2 (04:19):
And you know, I had.
Speaker 3 (04:21):
Been trying to get HBO to do its own programming
for a while, I mean really, you know, dip both
feet in and Jeff said, okay, let's give it a try,
and we opened the doors and one of the first
people to come in who really knew what they were
doing was Darren Starr, who obviously had two successful television
shows under his belt, which was great for us because
we hadn't done any successful television and you know, Darren's
(04:45):
a terrific producer, and he brought the he brought Candice's
book to us with the you know, which was an
assembly of the columns, the Sex and the City columns,
and I read it. Karen Strauss read it, and I
I thought, I haven't seen these people on TV.
Speaker 2 (05:03):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (05:04):
And then Darren did what a great producer does, is
he put he puts a great team together. Of course,
he brought in Michael Patrick. And then the casting process
was amazing.
Speaker 4 (05:13):
Is that how you remember it? Amazing?
Speaker 1 (05:15):
I remember it lasted really a long time, and everyone
in New York in LA read for it.
Speaker 3 (05:21):
Well, you know, it was amazing in the sense that
I think we really canvassed people. Yeah, and I don't know,
I mean, you know this story, but Darren Starr had
Sarah Jessica somewhere in the back of his mind. We
didn't know if she would do it or not. And
then everybody else was, you know, kind of a work
in progress. I mean, it was the combination of finding
(05:42):
the actress who really could help not embody the character
because they weren't even fully developed in the first script,
but you know, somebody who could bring their own personality
and acting experience and kind of take on what the
outlines of the role were and then turn them into
flesh and bone human beings for everybody in the audience.
(06:03):
I mean, I think it was one of the shows
where probably more people believed that you guys were really
those those people than almost any other show that I
was involved with. They can remember. I mean, maybe it's Brano.
A lot of people believe that those guys were in
the in the mafia. But secially, the city certainly touched
a bone that I don't think had been touched before
by television.
Speaker 1 (06:22):
And did you, like, did you envision that that would
be true or was it still just kind of a
crazy thing that happened?
Speaker 2 (06:30):
You know it I always.
Speaker 3 (06:34):
Always but when people ask me, you know, what are
what are the ingredients, It's like, Okay, here's the ingredients
for a successful television show.
Speaker 2 (06:42):
In my opinion, you need.
Speaker 3 (06:47):
An artist who with a strong point of view about
something that is relatable to the human experience. Hopefully a writer, producer,
because those are the television series business. Those are the
people who really are the generators of the team.
Speaker 2 (07:03):
They're the center of the team.
Speaker 3 (07:06):
And then you know, you need to hire really talented
people around them, and like I said before, give them
the resources, which includes the talent to help that that
come to fruition. And then you do it. And even
though you have all those pieces, it doesn't mean that
it's going to end up being what you what what
(07:27):
what what these things become because I think the ingredient
that only happens sometimes and I can't explain why it happens,
and I'll use this word because I mean, it is magic.
There's just a little bit of magic that ends up
coming from these creative people doing this together. It's what
one of the things that makes our business unique and
is long lasting and is globally you know, pervasive as
(07:49):
it's as as in a good way as it's become
hopefully in a good way.
Speaker 4 (07:53):
Yeah, definitely in a good way.
Speaker 1 (07:55):
So there, I can't not talk about the Sopranos, which
you know because for me to think back on what
it was like in the early days, right, we filmed
our whole first season without it being on the air,
and you guys were just incredibly supportive, not nitpicking notes,
you know, just kind of supporting the vision that Darren
(08:15):
had at that point. And I think you brought Michael in,
you know, in the first season. And what Michael said
to tell you, especially, which I need to remember to do,
is that he thinks that you were the best executive
to work.
Speaker 4 (08:27):
For because you understood jokes. And it's a rare thing
if you think about it.
Speaker 2 (08:36):
Well, you know what I did.
Speaker 3 (08:37):
I mean, I was a standard an unsuccessful stand up
comedian who then ended up managing and being part of
owner of the Improv of New York. So and all
those comedians, many of them were my peers. The guys
that became famous then became famous later there as performers
or you know, writers and big, big TV stars. So
(08:59):
I lived a lot life with people around trying to
be funny. And I think one of the things growing
up in New York and learning the comedy in New
York was that we learned a comedy that was more
first person, more about the personal experience.
Speaker 2 (09:13):
And certainly, in my mind, the things.
Speaker 3 (09:17):
The television shows that really resonate most with people are
the ones that come across almost as first person.
Speaker 2 (09:23):
You know, the audience identifies with that.
Speaker 3 (09:26):
And one of the ways to make something palatable is
to make it kind of funny, because life is funny,
and irony is comedy. And if there's one thing that
we know over and over again is life's ironic and
it's unpredictable. And the women in Sex and the City
explained it experienced that unpredictability no matter no matter.
Speaker 2 (09:46):
What their plans were.
Speaker 3 (09:48):
Definitely they were not necessarily foiled at every turn, but
it was it was a journey that the audience was
looking forward to taking, you know, with them. I remember
getting the first It's a very episode and I would
take it was back when we had you know, cassettes,
and I would take it home in my in my
shoulder bag. And Sex and the City was one of
(10:08):
the one or two shows that I had to watch
the first.
Speaker 2 (10:10):
Cut, no matter what.
Speaker 3 (10:11):
It was my job, but I couldn't wait to watch
the first cut us too.
Speaker 1 (10:14):
I remember waiting for that VHS and you know, running home,
running home to put it in. It's so funny to
think about now.
Speaker 4 (10:31):
Here you are.
Speaker 1 (10:32):
You come from this stand up background, which is so unusual,
you know, in your job, I think, I mean, I
don't know any other you know, I mean, yeah, very rare,
and you're you're kind of at the forefront of like
creating this original programming for HBO.
Speaker 4 (10:46):
You've got Us.
Speaker 1 (10:47):
You filmed the Sopranos pilot right after ours, because I
remember our crew. You tried to make a double deal
with crew members, like will you now go to New
Jersey and do this mobster thing?
Speaker 4 (10:58):
We were like, what you're going to do?
Speaker 2 (10:59):
What?
Speaker 1 (11:00):
But obviously, I mean literally lightning in a bottle? I mean,
what do you remember about that?
Speaker 4 (11:06):
What were you thinking? What was going through your head?
Speaker 2 (11:09):
You know what? I think.
Speaker 3 (11:12):
The lucky thing for us is we weren't doing a
lot of thinking. We were doing a lot of reacting, experiencing.
It's not like we had a floodgate of people coming
to pitch us stuff.
Speaker 2 (11:26):
And so when we had something like.
Speaker 3 (11:30):
The Sopranos, which came from David Chase, who knew how
to do television, just like Darren Starr who knew how
to do television, then the job.
Speaker 2 (11:36):
Was, well, these guys actually know more than we do
about making this.
Speaker 3 (11:40):
Let's help give them the freedom to expand their thinking
and like, you know, make this a clubhouse. And that's
kind of what The Sopranos became very different than Sex
and the City in terms of what went on the screen,
but not very different from Sex and the City in
terms of the kind of ingredients that came together and
(12:00):
gelled to end up with this experience that audiences.
Speaker 2 (12:06):
I mean, I look, if there was Sex.
Speaker 3 (12:08):
And the City parties when Sex and the City was on,
there was the Pranos parties when Panos was I don't
know a lot of other shows no that that that
had that phenomenon. We might we might have even started
it with with with that.
Speaker 1 (12:19):
It felt like that, Yeah, absolutely, And I remember for
us it was like kind of a really you know,
we were so in it and we were working you know,
as you know, all night, you know, every night for
the time that we were filming, and because we filmed
the whole first season with you know, kind of in
a bubble, which was wonderful, right we could just kind
of try to find ourselves, which you know, the first
season kind of all over the place. But now that
(12:41):
I'm rewatching it, I am really impressed with it, Like
it's so much more. It has all the elements were
right there. They weren't like woven together in the more
practiced way that we became, but they're all there, you know.
Speaker 2 (12:55):
And what's also so interesting is the evolution of the show.
Speaker 3 (12:57):
I mean, if you watch the pilot, you know, it's
talking to camera, it's it's chirns, it's uh, it's a,
it's a it's a little and and this show morphed
and then the other thing.
Speaker 2 (13:08):
I think that was certainly fun. It was.
Speaker 3 (13:11):
Although you the cast and and and the production team
were experienced professionals, and although we had been working and
you know, running this network, we all shared, you guys
and those of us on the inside, we shared this
experience of having this kind of unexpected and and joyous.
(13:34):
I mean, it wasn't at all times where it wasn't
that it weren't the bumps along the road when you
make doing any of this stuff with all kinds of people.
Speaker 2 (13:41):
But I think you you were You were a great partner.
Speaker 3 (13:45):
You were a great uh ambassador for the show, not
just when you were on the show, but in in
in your life. You were always so great to deal with.
And you know, whether we were whether we were whether
or we were talking about scripture, renegotiating deals, you know,
it was it was thank you.
Speaker 2 (14:05):
It was a happy time.
Speaker 4 (14:06):
Yeah, And I.
Speaker 3 (14:08):
Have to believe that also contributed to uh what came
through absolutely, you know, for the audience.
Speaker 4 (14:15):
Absolutely, I agree with what you're saying.
Speaker 1 (14:17):
And it's interesting to think about because you know, now
obviously the industry is just profoundly different in so so
so many ways, and I feel like because of all
the changes, there's you know, kind of a lot of
fear and no one knows what to do, you know,
it's uneven. Whereas like for us, I really did feel
(14:37):
that we were you know, together and united and the
kind of insane experience that we knew we were going
through that was amazing that you know, each year built.
Speaker 4 (14:45):
And also because you guys were really.
Speaker 1 (14:48):
Partners, it was a very different experience in terms of
like creatively, you know, Michael always goes rhapsodic talking about
you know, we can list the notes that you and
Carolyn gave us on our hand, right like you were
just support, You were like true support and teammates.
Speaker 3 (15:07):
Well, I always looked at our job as not to
shuffle the deck. But if you think about it as
a deck of cards, once in a while card is
kind of sticking out on the side.
Speaker 2 (15:16):
You just every once in a while we would help
the show do this. It's great, but also for Sex.
Speaker 3 (15:21):
And the City, it was you know, it It brought
a point of view, It brought characters to the screen.
Speaker 2 (15:29):
It gave the audience a chance to see themselves.
Speaker 3 (15:31):
Like I said, even if they weren't those specific had
that specific.
Speaker 2 (15:35):
Lifestyle, the inner monologue, the inner life. It was different
enough in each character.
Speaker 3 (15:41):
And yet united enough that together they presented a world
that hadn't been on TV before. And it was an
opportunity we had an HBO to do that. Sex and
the City changed television.
Speaker 2 (15:56):
Yeah, changed. I don't know it changed.
Speaker 3 (15:58):
It changed in the sense that it was an example
for people of what was possible to do on television.
Speaker 4 (16:05):
Yes, yes, for sure.
Speaker 1 (16:07):
Now did you think about the fact, like like in
your prioritizing in terms of so we've got sopranos, we've
got Sex and the City.
Speaker 4 (16:15):
We're growing, We're growing. It's like so exciting.
Speaker 1 (16:18):
You know, at certain points we start getting nominated for
Emmy's Like what were you thinking? Were you like, yeah,
this is amazing, this is what I wanted? Or like,
was it out of control?
Speaker 4 (16:28):
Was it what was it for you?
Speaker 3 (16:31):
All of those things. It definitely took on a life
of its own, right. I think the what it's kind
of like the show, you know what people saw on
the show wasn't necessarily.
Speaker 2 (16:41):
What we all talked about being in the show.
Speaker 3 (16:44):
Right When when we would read articles, when people still
read articles about Sex and the City, or would read
an article about Sopranos or or you know, other shows,
I would say to Carolyn Strauss, I'd say, we don't.
We never had that conversation, but they would see it
in that and therefore it became. It became larger than
you know, It took on a life of its own,
(17:06):
and so we were, I think often as surprised as anyone,
you know, to see the reaction, and it grew so much.
Speaker 2 (17:14):
I remember one year at the Globes, I think Sex.
Speaker 3 (17:18):
And the City one, Sopranos won, the actors won, the
actresses won, and we won the movie.
Speaker 2 (17:24):
We won every and we were.
Speaker 3 (17:25):
All sitting there at the HBO table, which of course
was you know, the best table in the TV section.
Speaker 2 (17:30):
We were in the movie section, which was.
Speaker 3 (17:31):
On the floor, and I turned to my team that
was at the table, and I said, remember this's not
because it'll never happen again, you know, it was just
and by that time people were already trying to emulate
what we were doing, because it wasn't.
Speaker 2 (17:45):
It wasn't a secret formula.
Speaker 3 (17:47):
It was just one that we identified as an opportunity
for us, and other people tried to follow in the
footsteps until it then, like every other thing that is
a good thing, is too much, right.
Speaker 2 (18:01):
You know, there were probably a lot of Greek plays written.
Speaker 3 (18:03):
Most people only remember the ones by Eschylus and and but.
Speaker 2 (18:09):
You know the same thing with I'm sure there were
a lot of Elizabethan you know.
Speaker 3 (18:15):
Poets who wrote who wrote plays, but we don't know.
There's only a couple that ever be remember, so there could.
There's a lot of television shows, but there's not very
many that have had the impact and have the longevity,
and so many people so glad to see, uh, you
know you those characters come back on screen again and
share their new experiences and continue on the journey with them.
Speaker 1 (18:39):
Absolutely, I mean it has been obviously just an experience
that we never could have ever imagined even remotely.
Speaker 3 (18:49):
And I have to say Sex and the City was
I mean, there are shows, you know, people talk all
the people don't compare Sex and the City and sopranos.
Speaker 2 (18:56):
They don't compare. They'll compare the dramas together or the
comedies together. But for me, especially with.
Speaker 3 (19:02):
The timing and everything, but for me with the audience
that we didn't have before.
Speaker 2 (19:07):
We didn't have a big female audience on HBO.
Speaker 3 (19:09):
We had boxing and you know, we had to stand
up comedy shows and sex and the city was was
was really the game changer for us.
Speaker 2 (19:18):
And it's not about more reviews or more or or
or more awards.
Speaker 3 (19:26):
It was the cultural impact of that and the the
you know sort of how it just became into the lexicon.
Speaker 2 (19:37):
Absolutely people's lives.
Speaker 3 (19:39):
And I mean to the point of view about you know,
the title of your podcast, you know You're Charlotte. I mean,
it was all people were that was those were real
conversations people.
Speaker 1 (19:49):
Were, I know, and they still have them, which is insane,
But I think it's important to say that, you know,
and I know as an actor. When I when Darren
sent me the first script, I wasn't really aware of
Kansas's colle but the idea that there would be a
show with four lead women who were unabashedly over thirty
was shocking. I was like, what I have to be
(20:11):
on this show? Like, when you really think back, it's
hard to even remember how unusual that was, and what
a risk it was.
Speaker 4 (20:18):
What did you think about that?
Speaker 3 (20:19):
Well, you know, it was right about the time that
that was I don't know if it was Time magazine
or whatever.
Speaker 2 (20:24):
It was, that thing that came out where like a.
Speaker 3 (20:26):
Woman over thirty had had, you know, more of a
chance of being hit by lightning than getting married, right, yes,
And so, oh my god, that was a statement that
probably hit a lot. I mean, I don't know how
many people saw it, but it certainly traveled in in
you know, conversations with people.
Speaker 2 (20:44):
And then I think this show came on and the
heels of that, right, and on one hand.
Speaker 3 (20:51):
Illustrated those challenges and yet on the other hand, really
humanized it and the desires and also even though you know,
the show was bittersweet in many ways, but it was
life affirming.
Speaker 4 (21:04):
Absolutely. It was joyous.
Speaker 3 (21:06):
Yeah, because these women were successful people. I don't mean
successful in their jobs. It was all those things. But
they persevered in spite of you know, the challenges first
of being a woman, right, and and then and you know,
secondly the all of the you know, other cultural and
(21:28):
physical things that happened. And now seeing the characters years later,
it adds another whole dimension, but it was it was.
It was definitely it was a risk for us to
take back then, but a risk. If you had those
odds in Vegas, you probably wouldn't play, but if you
got that result in Vegas, you'd go home a happy person.
Speaker 1 (22:00):
The other thing I think about is when I remember
my audition, my test or whatever you would call it,
and I mean literally I think there was you and Carolyn,
maybe Michael Hill was there, maybe Kerry Barton was there
or Billy Hopkins one or the other, but and Darren,
Like there was so few of you.
Speaker 3 (22:19):
Yeah, I don't think that. I think it was probably
Darren and certainly Carolyn and me and maybe Michael Hill
and maybe.
Speaker 4 (22:31):
Carme oh yeah, CARMEI right, but so few like it
was it tiny?
Speaker 2 (22:35):
Yeah, but maybe not.
Speaker 3 (22:37):
We were really only only a couple. And that's how
we did it. I know that's how we did it.
Speaker 2 (22:41):
And it became our way of.
Speaker 3 (22:48):
Being able to make the casting decisions that were part
of making the show successful because obviously critical, that's.
Speaker 2 (22:56):
What the audience sees.
Speaker 3 (22:58):
And as you know, oh, there were even some changes
along the way.
Speaker 2 (23:02):
I mean, the first person cast as uh.
Speaker 3 (23:05):
Samantha wasn't Kim right right, And then Kim became available
and Darren called me and he said, I really had
her in mind.
Speaker 2 (23:14):
What do you want to do?
Speaker 3 (23:15):
And I said, well, We're spend a lot of money
on this, and you know, if you think this is
the right thing to.
Speaker 2 (23:21):
Do, let's do it.
Speaker 3 (23:25):
So uh, yeah, history you know made before yeah, or
we even got on the on on on the floor
for the first rehearsal, I know.
Speaker 1 (23:35):
And it's just it's just mind boggling to think about.
First of all, I love you know, I had Alan
Culter came on and and talked about he had been
on Soprano's first season and then you guys had said, hey,
would you go over there and work on Sex and
the City and bring some you know, kind of more
cinematic you know, qualities to it, which he absolutely did,
and I'd love hearing what he remembers. I feel like
(23:57):
once we kind of started cross populating the directors, our
production value, you know, really leapt up, which was part
of the magic of being there.
Speaker 3 (24:07):
You know, you know, and from the very beginning, Darren
wanted New York City to be to be a character
in the show, and you know, a lot like the Sopranos,
which we shot in Jersey. You know, Sex and the
City would not have been the same show. How do
we not shot it in New York and not shot
in New York the way we shot it?
Speaker 2 (24:25):
Yeah, you know it became Look.
Speaker 3 (24:29):
Shows always get a boost when the audience wants to
be the people on screen and wants to live the
lives they're living. And certainly in spite of all the emotional,
you know, challenges and psychological conflicts that the characters had
within themselves and sometimes with each other, I think the
(24:51):
audience always said.
Speaker 2 (24:53):
I either want to be them or I want to
be their friend.
Speaker 4 (24:56):
Yeah, which is so nice.
Speaker 1 (24:58):
I sometimes still fe apologetic because you know, these young
girls will move there and then then I'll run into
someone somewhere and they'll be like, oh, I moved there
when I was twenty five, and you know, it's really
hard to get a cab or just like really basics.
I'm like, I'm so sorry that we didn't always it
wasn't always accurate, you know what I'm saying. It was
a little bit glamorized, as we know, with the shoes
and you know what I'm saying, Like I wouldn't spend
(25:20):
a day in those shoes in the city if I
weren't playing Charlotte for goodness sake, But that was the
fun of it, you know.
Speaker 3 (25:27):
In so it is, it is show business, but it's
show business that it's.
Speaker 1 (25:30):
Best, absolutely absolutely, and I feel, you know, as the
show went on, I mean, just I'm curious, you're I mean, first.
Speaker 4 (25:39):
Of all, how did you feel about us ending the show?
Speaker 2 (25:42):
I never wanted it to end. It was I mean,
it was.
Speaker 3 (25:48):
I guess Michael and Sarah Jessica's decision. Yeah, and obviously
if Michael didn't feel there was more in it. We
were not the type of place to change horses, right
and continue with the framework without the heart.
Speaker 4 (26:02):
No, that would have been crazy.
Speaker 3 (26:03):
And I don't know that any of you would have
done that. So, but you know, we definitely I'm like,
I wish I would have had more episodes every season,
you know, but there were people that had limitations with
their schedules and.
Speaker 4 (26:16):
Life babies started happening.
Speaker 3 (26:18):
Yeah, I mean, I think we could have gone on
at least another couple of seasons and it would have
been to all of our benefits.
Speaker 1 (26:25):
Certainly mine, I agree one hundred percent. Now let me
ask you about this. Do you remember how we had
this plan that we were going to do the film
but then we ended, which was largely based I mean
really in my mind, I think creatively, yes, it was
it's very hard to make a show every week, right
or whatever.
Speaker 4 (26:43):
You know, we weren't making it every week, but you
know what.
Speaker 1 (26:44):
I'm saying, it's really hard the pressure of the writing
and whatnot the creative team. And I think that pressure,
you know, had somewhat taken a toll on Sara, Jessica
and Michael, as you said, but also, you know, Cynthia
had a baby, Sir, Jessica had a baby. You know,
you have that you're so torn by being parent as
you know, and feeling like you need to be the
best parent you can be. And but when we had
(27:05):
been working, my perception of it was that it was,
you know, all encompassing, like our our lives were about
the show and promoting the show and riding this wave
that had happened, you know, kind of unexpectedly, and I
think all of us really knew that it was, you know,
a once in a lifetime situation, right, So it was like,
(27:26):
remember we would jet around you know with you Yes,
I remember.
Speaker 2 (27:29):
Yes, we had a good time. We had a good time.
Everybody worked hard, but we made sure to have some fun.
Speaker 4 (27:35):
Yes, I mean, I remember when She's Nevus. Do you
remember that on the horses?
Speaker 1 (27:39):
It was so much fun with all the cable guys,
the cable cowboys. I mean, just amazing times, amazing times.
But I think so then we were going to do
the film right. But then like we didn't. We didn't
really know who would make the film. Do you remember
all this strength?
Speaker 2 (27:55):
I remember?
Speaker 3 (27:55):
So what happened was I commissioned the script right, and
we didn't have the film sold, and I didn't know
how we were going to get it financed. And then
and we're trying to put together budgets, but we were
really you know, it was one of those times when
HBO became timid because it was getting out of our
(28:15):
comfort zone for some people. And then to my memory, anyway,
I think the the product, the Devil Wears product movie
came out and I said to everybody, I said, that's
our movie.
Speaker 2 (28:30):
I said, they just did our movie.
Speaker 4 (28:33):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (28:33):
So then the momentum went back.
Speaker 3 (28:37):
And the movie I had gone to Newline and they
jumped in, which gave us the sort of film credibility,
and then kind of kind of it was within the
company also because they were a division of Time Warner,
as was HBO, so.
Speaker 2 (28:54):
It put it on a track. And then of course Michael.
Speaker 3 (29:00):
Wrote the script and then you know, in a not
unheard of move but a somewhat unusual move, Michael got
to direct it right, and everybody came on board. And really,
I look at the first films.
Speaker 2 (29:15):
As the finale to the series.
Speaker 4 (29:18):
So much, yes, yes, yes, yes, so much.
Speaker 1 (29:21):
And that's what was really wonderful about it, because when
we did end the show, the only reason that I
didn't completely fall apart, which I set fell apart, because
I really passionately loved the show, as you know, but
I really did believe in my heart that we would
do a film.
Speaker 4 (29:36):
I didn't know how. I mean, it was really odd.
Speaker 1 (29:38):
It was like you're taking one thing in one medium
and even though of course it's still storytelling, you'd need
a film company and distribution and all of the things,
like it's a different animal in so many ways, and
you guys hadn't done that yet, so it didn't there
wasn't a clear tract for it to be going on, right,
It took a lot of creativity on everyone's part to
make it work out. But I did believe that was
(29:59):
going to happen or I have really been just fully
decimated because I never really want us to end, which
you know, like I don't know that's rat at this point.
Speaker 5 (30:08):
But.
Speaker 4 (30:10):
Yeah, it's hard when you.
Speaker 1 (30:11):
Have something that you love so much, you know, it's
like it's just so like I could not have a
better creative experience.
Speaker 2 (30:19):
I think we all love that show.
Speaker 3 (30:21):
I think it was it was it was, you know,
considering how successful it was, it had a really unusually
small amount of problems. Yeah, and you know, because the
show is you got to keep a group of people together.
Speaker 2 (30:35):
For a long time.
Speaker 3 (30:37):
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, and no matter how good friends they
are on camera, it doesn't mean that they're that that
they're that.
Speaker 2 (30:42):
Way in real life.
Speaker 4 (30:43):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (30:44):
Well, but yes, I think the movie was really important.
Speaker 3 (30:48):
And again to my memory, it was a while ago now,
you know, twenty years ago. Uh, the product film helped
prod into you of doing it. Yeah, because and it
may have been Michael Patrick that first said it to me,
but it was like, okay, and and even as much
(31:10):
as I enjoyed that film, I thought our film was
a bigger experience because it was the end of a
journey that had taken you know, had taken years, and
for the first time, really the show gave the audience
what it had been craving.
Speaker 4 (31:27):
So true. Yeah, that's so true. I hadn't thought about that.
Speaker 1 (31:31):
But it had a more complete because in a you know,
a two hour storytelling, you're able to complete things in
a way and go deeper as opposed to Like, one
of the things when I'm rewatching the show that I'm
really amazed by is how much we could do in
a relatively short time. In the show, they're not that long,
and so much happens, and it's like funny and then
(31:55):
deep and then silent for a second and funny and
like it's it's very I'm super impressed by us.
Speaker 2 (32:02):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (32:02):
Well, a series has the advantage, especially serialized, of being
able to tell a story over a much longer period
of time, getting to know the characters in a different way,
and a film hasn't. But that's a big challenge. A
film has an advantage in that it gets to tell
the beginning, middle, and end of a story all in
one sitting, and so it's a different you know, a
different structure and can be a more satisfying experience in
(32:29):
a way, because you know, you get to sit down
at the meal, eat it and have dessert, and pay
the check and leave.
Speaker 1 (32:37):
Totally, totally, totally. I do also think that as time
goes by, like when you first start, especially the pilot,
the pilot is physically so dark that you're like.
Speaker 4 (32:48):
Where are we?
Speaker 1 (32:48):
I mean, it's very cool, like it's interesting, but you know,
as time went on, like we're beautifully lit, you know,
and the production values are just keep rising and rising
and rising, and then the film it's like whoa, you know, somebody,
let us really play. And we kind of have had
trouble coming back from that, I will say, like we
had we had these thoughts that when we came back
(33:09):
to doing just like that, that we were going to
try to be like our early selves when we would
like film on one corner and then like wheel the
lights down the block, you know, and like have a
handheld scene on the other corner. Well, we can't go
back to that. It's impossible, you know what I mean, And.
Speaker 2 (33:26):
The audience expects something different.
Speaker 3 (33:27):
I mean, I look, even in the pilots, as central
as the women were, there were lots of other things
going on, and as the show evolved quickly it became
those four women right as the center of the center
of the heart of the show.
Speaker 1 (33:44):
Absolutely absolutely all right, is there anything that you want
to talk about that we didn't just thank you? Oh
my god, no, for all that you did for all
of us, you thank you. You really are like our
you know, special godfather who you know not only greenlit
and put us together like so thoughtfully put the pieces
(34:08):
together of what is still you know, in existence. And
we couldn't love each other much more, you know, we
couldn't be more thankful for what you guys created.
Speaker 2 (34:17):
Thank you. We took that journey together and it changed
all of our.
Speaker 4 (34:20):
Lives, I know it.
Speaker 1 (34:21):
And you, I mean you basically gave us, especially myself.
I mean all of us are a little different, as
you know, but for myself you you really you you gave.
Speaker 4 (34:31):
Me my career and I can't thank you enough.
Speaker 3 (34:34):
You know, Christy, I got to say, you were pretty easy.
Speaker 5 (34:39):
Thank you.
Speaker 4 (34:40):
I appreciate that. I really do, I really do.
Speaker 1 (34:42):
I love our I love our team, and I'm happy
to be in a collaborative you know situation.
Speaker 4 (34:47):
I that's part of the joy of it for me,
you were that.
Speaker 2 (34:51):
You were definitely definitely that.
Speaker 1 (34:53):
Thank you, babe, Thank you, and thank you for being on.
It's so special to get to hear from you.
Speaker 4 (34:58):
I feel so lucky.
Speaker 2 (34:59):
Maybe I get to see you person one of these days,
we're sure.
Speaker 4 (35:02):
Let's have been with Dave.
Speaker 2 (35:03):
Yeah. Great.
Speaker 1 (35:05):
I'm so glad that he connected us. And Michael sends
his love and he's so.
Speaker 4 (35:09):
Happy that you're talking to me.
Speaker 2 (35:10):
Please send mine.
Speaker 4 (35:11):
I will.
Speaker 1 (35:12):
I love to have the tapestry of all of us
who are there in the beginning. I want it to
be here for people to find and discover and hear
from the different points of view of like what it
was like to be together back then.
Speaker 2 (35:24):
Well, I'm glad you're doing this, and thanks for including me.
Speaker 4 (35:26):
Thank you, Chris.
Hi, I'm Kristin Davis, and I want to know are
you a Charlotte? Hello, everybody, welcome to Are You a Charlotte?
Today we are talking to someone so incredible. It is
Chris Albrech, who was the head of HBO Original Programming
and the CEO of HBO in general. And he is
(00:23):
the person who greenlit Sex and the City, who also
green lit the Sopranos, and who really put us all
together and you know, was there for the formation and
development of the show basically, and we owe so much
to him. So it's going to be a really fascinating conversation.
Here we go.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
Hey, how are you, Chris? I'm good. How are you?
I'm will It's so nice to see you. Thank you
for the invite.
Speaker 1 (00:48):
Oh my god, I'm so excited you're here. I talked
to Michael Patrick yesterday. I have so many things to say.
He sends love and messages. It's thrilling to have you.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
Great congratulations on the news.
Speaker 3 (01:01):
I mean it's sort of a new show now in
the third season or whatever, but yeah, it's so great.
Speaker 4 (01:05):
It's so interesting, isn't it.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
And I you know, we are going to jump right
in because I really, really just have to honor your
place in really creating us.
Speaker 4 (01:17):
You know, like we think about you and might cry.
Speaker 5 (01:20):
I'm feeling very emotional lately, but you know, it's just
been such a journey and we wouldn't even be here
if you hadn't been so brave and like out front,
you know, creating, just purely creating.
Speaker 1 (01:34):
That's how I think of HBO when when I met you, guys,
how do you think of it?
Speaker 2 (01:39):
You know, I think of HBO as it was.
Speaker 3 (01:42):
It was a vehicle to be able to provide talented
people to come together in what's a collaborative medium, right
What we do is a collaborative medium, talk about things
that had a point of view, were relatable to the
human experience, and luckily, because of our business model, we
were able to provide them with the resources to realize
(02:04):
their vision. And kind of luckily, especially in the beginning
when we first started with Sex and the City, nobody
was paying attention to us, so we had a chance.
What did you do things that real grond ums might
not let.
Speaker 1 (02:15):
Us do totally totally, and we didn't have advertisers, which
I mean, we obviously understand, but not everyone listening will
realize how different the landscape was at the time.
Speaker 2 (02:25):
Absolutely.
Speaker 3 (02:26):
I mean, television was supported by companies, you know, marketing
their products, and they wanted to have marketing that would
bring in the biggest audiences, and that meant not offending people.
So you know, programs were a lot more mild tempered,
even if they were you know, core thrillers or cop traumas.
(02:50):
And also couldn't take a stronger point of view about
what people really went through because you might offend somebody.
Speaker 2 (02:59):
Was really the bottom, and we didn't. Not only didn't
we kind.
Speaker 3 (03:02):
Of worry about that, but we were not as a
badge of honor that we were trying to offend people,
but we wanted to really get people to look at us.
Speaker 2 (03:09):
And say, I can relate to that.
Speaker 3 (03:10):
I mean, I think Sex and the City is the
perfect example of a show that so many people related to,
even if they didn't live in you know, New York City,
even if they weren't you know, upwardly mobile professional women
in their early thirties. And I would say, you know,
I'm not sure if the show was set in Cleveland
(03:32):
you would watch it, But if the show if you
were in Cleveland, you definitely got it right.
Speaker 1 (03:37):
So I remember, like you, you were at HBO from
I believe in the eighties, right eighty five.
Speaker 4 (03:43):
Amazing.
Speaker 1 (03:44):
So when I thought of HBO, HBO was this thing
that was like really expensive and you hoped you could
afford it, and it had a lot of sports and
then movies, and then in a way you just started slowly.
Speaker 4 (03:57):
Growing the original programming. Is that accurate?
Speaker 3 (04:00):
Yeah, you know, we had a real opportunity when there
was a change in the top leadership when Jeff Buchers
came in to be the CEO and I got moved
up to the head of programming and technology. Was our
friend a k BAN satellite DirecTV Dish. They were coming in,
they were bringing a new revenue, and we were doing
really well.
Speaker 2 (04:19):
And you know, I had.
Speaker 3 (04:21):
Been trying to get HBO to do its own programming
for a while, I mean really, you know, dip both
feet in and Jeff said, okay, let's give it a try,
and we opened the doors and one of the first
people to come in who really knew what they were
doing was Darren Starr, who obviously had two successful television
shows under his belt, which was great for us because
we hadn't done any successful television and you know, Darren's
(04:45):
a terrific producer, and he brought the he brought Candice's
book to us with the you know, which was an
assembly of the columns, the Sex and the City columns,
and I read it. Karen Strauss read it, and I
I thought, I haven't seen these people on TV.
Speaker 2 (05:03):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (05:04):
And then Darren did what a great producer does, is
he put he puts a great team together. Of course,
he brought in Michael Patrick. And then the casting process
was amazing.
Speaker 4 (05:13):
Is that how you remember it? Amazing?
Speaker 1 (05:15):
I remember it lasted really a long time, and everyone
in New York in LA read for it.
Speaker 3 (05:21):
Well, you know, it was amazing in the sense that
I think we really canvassed people. Yeah, and I don't know,
I mean, you know this story, but Darren Starr had
Sarah Jessica somewhere in the back of his mind. We
didn't know if she would do it or not. And
then everybody else was, you know, kind of a work
in progress. I mean, it was the combination of finding
(05:42):
the actress who really could help not embody the character
because they weren't even fully developed in the first script,
but you know, somebody who could bring their own personality
and acting experience and kind of take on what the
outlines of the role were and then turn them into
flesh and bone human beings for everybody in the audience.
(06:03):
I mean, I think it was one of the shows
where probably more people believed that you guys were really
those those people than almost any other show that I
was involved with. They can remember. I mean, maybe it's Brano.
A lot of people believe that those guys were in
the in the mafia. But secially, the city certainly touched
a bone that I don't think had been touched before
by television.
Speaker 1 (06:22):
And did you, like, did you envision that that would
be true or was it still just kind of a
crazy thing that happened?
Speaker 2 (06:30):
You know it I always.
Speaker 3 (06:34):
Always but when people ask me, you know, what are
what are the ingredients, It's like, Okay, here's the ingredients
for a successful television show.
Speaker 2 (06:42):
In my opinion, you need.
Speaker 3 (06:47):
An artist who with a strong point of view about
something that is relatable to the human experience. Hopefully a writer, producer,
because those are the television series business. Those are the
people who really are the generators of the team.
Speaker 2 (07:03):
They're the center of the team.
Speaker 3 (07:06):
And then you know, you need to hire really talented
people around them, and like I said before, give them
the resources, which includes the talent to help that that
come to fruition. And then you do it. And even
though you have all those pieces, it doesn't mean that
it's going to end up being what you what what
(07:27):
what what these things become because I think the ingredient
that only happens sometimes and I can't explain why it happens,
and I'll use this word because I mean, it is magic.
There's just a little bit of magic that ends up
coming from these creative people doing this together. It's what
one of the things that makes our business unique and
is long lasting and is globally you know, pervasive as
(07:49):
it's as as in a good way as it's become
hopefully in a good way.
Speaker 4 (07:53):
Yeah, definitely in a good way.
Speaker 1 (07:55):
So there, I can't not talk about the Sopranos, which
you know because for me to think back on what
it was like in the early days, right, we filmed
our whole first season without it being on the air,
and you guys were just incredibly supportive, not nitpicking notes,
you know, just kind of supporting the vision that Darren
(08:15):
had at that point. And I think you brought Michael in,
you know, in the first season. And what Michael said
to tell you, especially, which I need to remember to do,
is that he thinks that you were the best executive
to work.
Speaker 4 (08:27):
For because you understood jokes. And it's a rare thing
if you think about it.
Speaker 2 (08:36):
Well, you know what I did.
Speaker 3 (08:37):
I mean, I was a standard an unsuccessful stand up
comedian who then ended up managing and being part of
owner of the Improv of New York. So and all
those comedians, many of them were my peers. The guys
that became famous then became famous later there as performers
or you know, writers and big, big TV stars. So
(08:59):
I lived a lot life with people around trying to
be funny. And I think one of the things growing
up in New York and learning the comedy in New
York was that we learned a comedy that was more
first person, more about the personal experience.
Speaker 2 (09:13):
And certainly, in my mind, the things.
Speaker 3 (09:17):
The television shows that really resonate most with people are
the ones that come across almost as first person.
Speaker 2 (09:23):
You know, the audience identifies with that.
Speaker 3 (09:26):
And one of the ways to make something palatable is
to make it kind of funny, because life is funny,
and irony is comedy. And if there's one thing that
we know over and over again is life's ironic and
it's unpredictable. And the women in Sex and the City
explained it experienced that unpredictability no matter no matter.
Speaker 2 (09:46):
What their plans were.
Speaker 3 (09:48):
Definitely they were not necessarily foiled at every turn, but
it was it was a journey that the audience was
looking forward to taking, you know, with them. I remember
getting the first It's a very episode and I would
take it was back when we had you know, cassettes,
and I would take it home in my in my
shoulder bag. And Sex and the City was one of
(10:08):
the one or two shows that I had to watch
the first.
Speaker 2 (10:10):
Cut, no matter what.
Speaker 3 (10:11):
It was my job, but I couldn't wait to watch
the first cut us too.
Speaker 1 (10:14):
I remember waiting for that VHS and you know, running home,
running home to put it in. It's so funny to
think about now.
Speaker 4 (10:31):
Here you are.
Speaker 1 (10:32):
You come from this stand up background, which is so unusual,
you know, in your job, I think, I mean, I
don't know any other you know, I mean, yeah, very rare,
and you're you're kind of at the forefront of like
creating this original programming for HBO.
Speaker 4 (10:46):
You've got Us.
Speaker 1 (10:47):
You filmed the Sopranos pilot right after ours, because I
remember our crew. You tried to make a double deal
with crew members, like will you now go to New
Jersey and do this mobster thing?
Speaker 4 (10:58):
We were like, what you're going to do?
Speaker 2 (10:59):
What?
Speaker 1 (11:00):
But obviously, I mean literally lightning in a bottle? I mean,
what do you remember about that?
Speaker 4 (11:06):
What were you thinking? What was going through your head?
Speaker 2 (11:09):
You know what? I think.
Speaker 3 (11:12):
The lucky thing for us is we weren't doing a
lot of thinking. We were doing a lot of reacting, experiencing.
It's not like we had a floodgate of people coming
to pitch us stuff.
Speaker 2 (11:26):
And so when we had something like.
Speaker 3 (11:30):
The Sopranos, which came from David Chase, who knew how
to do television, just like Darren Starr who knew how
to do television, then the job.
Speaker 2 (11:36):
Was, well, these guys actually know more than we do
about making this.
Speaker 3 (11:40):
Let's help give them the freedom to expand their thinking
and like, you know, make this a clubhouse. And that's
kind of what The Sopranos became very different than Sex
and the City in terms of what went on the screen,
but not very different from Sex and the City in
terms of the kind of ingredients that came together and
(12:00):
gelled to end up with this experience that audiences.
Speaker 2 (12:06):
I mean, I look, if there was Sex.
Speaker 3 (12:08):
And the City parties when Sex and the City was on,
there was the Pranos parties when Panos was I don't
know a lot of other shows no that that that
had that phenomenon. We might we might have even started
it with with with that.
Speaker 1 (12:19):
It felt like that, Yeah, absolutely, And I remember for
us it was like kind of a really you know,
we were so in it and we were working you know,
as you know, all night, you know, every night for
the time that we were filming, and because we filmed
the whole first season with you know, kind of in
a bubble, which was wonderful, right we could just kind
of try to find ourselves, which you know, the first
season kind of all over the place. But now that
(12:41):
I'm rewatching it, I am really impressed with it, Like
it's so much more. It has all the elements were
right there. They weren't like woven together in the more
practiced way that we became, but they're all there, you know.
Speaker 2 (12:55):
And what's also so interesting is the evolution of the show.
Speaker 3 (12:57):
I mean, if you watch the pilot, you know, it's
talking to camera, it's it's chirns, it's uh, it's a,
it's a it's a little and and this show morphed
and then the other thing.
Speaker 2 (13:08):
I think that was certainly fun. It was.
Speaker 3 (13:11):
Although you the cast and and and the production team
were experienced professionals, and although we had been working and
you know, running this network, we all shared, you guys
and those of us on the inside, we shared this
experience of having this kind of unexpected and and joyous.
(13:34):
I mean, it wasn't at all times where it wasn't
that it weren't the bumps along the road when you
make doing any of this stuff with all kinds of people.
Speaker 2 (13:41):
But I think you you were You were a great partner.
Speaker 3 (13:45):
You were a great uh ambassador for the show, not
just when you were on the show, but in in
in your life. You were always so great to deal with.
And you know, whether we were whether we were whether
or we were talking about scripture, renegotiating deals, you know,
it was it was thank you.
Speaker 2 (14:05):
It was a happy time.
Speaker 4 (14:06):
Yeah, And I.
Speaker 3 (14:08):
Have to believe that also contributed to uh what came
through absolutely, you know, for the audience.
Speaker 4 (14:15):
Absolutely, I agree with what you're saying.
Speaker 1 (14:17):
And it's interesting to think about because you know, now
obviously the industry is just profoundly different in so so
so many ways, and I feel like because of all
the changes, there's you know, kind of a lot of
fear and no one knows what to do, you know,
it's uneven. Whereas like for us, I really did feel
(14:37):
that we were you know, together and united and the
kind of insane experience that we knew we were going
through that was amazing that you know, each year built.
Speaker 4 (14:45):
And also because you guys were really.
Speaker 1 (14:48):
Partners, it was a very different experience in terms of
like creatively, you know, Michael always goes rhapsodic talking about
you know, we can list the notes that you and
Carolyn gave us on our hand, right like you were
just support, You were like true support and teammates.
Speaker 3 (15:07):
Well, I always looked at our job as not to
shuffle the deck. But if you think about it as
a deck of cards, once in a while card is
kind of sticking out on the side.
Speaker 2 (15:16):
You just every once in a while we would help
the show do this. It's great, but also for Sex.
Speaker 3 (15:21):
And the City, it was you know, it It brought
a point of view, It brought characters to the screen.
Speaker 2 (15:29):
It gave the audience a chance to see themselves.
Speaker 3 (15:31):
Like I said, even if they weren't those specific had
that specific.
Speaker 2 (15:35):
Lifestyle, the inner monologue, the inner life. It was different
enough in each character.
Speaker 3 (15:41):
And yet united enough that together they presented a world
that hadn't been on TV before. And it was an
opportunity we had an HBO to do that. Sex and
the City changed television.
Speaker 2 (15:56):
Yeah, changed. I don't know it changed.
Speaker 3 (15:58):
It changed in the sense that it was an example
for people of what was possible to do on television.
Speaker 4 (16:05):
Yes, yes, for sure.
Speaker 1 (16:07):
Now did you think about the fact, like like in
your prioritizing in terms of so we've got sopranos, we've
got Sex and the City.
Speaker 4 (16:15):
We're growing, We're growing. It's like so exciting.
Speaker 1 (16:18):
You know, at certain points we start getting nominated for
Emmy's Like what were you thinking? Were you like, yeah,
this is amazing, this is what I wanted? Or like,
was it out of control?
Speaker 4 (16:28):
Was it what was it for you?
Speaker 3 (16:31):
All of those things. It definitely took on a life
of its own, right. I think the what it's kind
of like the show, you know what people saw on
the show wasn't necessarily.
Speaker 2 (16:41):
What we all talked about being in the show.
Speaker 3 (16:44):
Right When when we would read articles, when people still
read articles about Sex and the City, or would read
an article about Sopranos or or you know, other shows,
I would say to Carolyn Strauss, I'd say, we don't.
We never had that conversation, but they would see it
in that and therefore it became. It became larger than
you know, It took on a life of its own,
(17:06):
and so we were, I think often as surprised as anyone,
you know, to see the reaction, and it grew so much.
Speaker 2 (17:14):
I remember one year at the Globes, I think Sex.
Speaker 3 (17:18):
And the City one, Sopranos won, the actors won, the
actresses won, and we won the movie.
Speaker 2 (17:24):
We won every and we were.
Speaker 3 (17:25):
All sitting there at the HBO table, which of course
was you know, the best table in the TV section.
Speaker 2 (17:30):
We were in the movie section, which was.
Speaker 3 (17:31):
On the floor, and I turned to my team that
was at the table, and I said, remember this's not
because it'll never happen again, you know, it was just
and by that time people were already trying to emulate
what we were doing, because it wasn't.
Speaker 2 (17:45):
It wasn't a secret formula.
Speaker 3 (17:47):
It was just one that we identified as an opportunity
for us, and other people tried to follow in the
footsteps until it then, like every other thing that is
a good thing, is too much, right.
Speaker 2 (18:01):
You know, there were probably a lot of Greek plays written.
Speaker 3 (18:03):
Most people only remember the ones by Eschylus and and but.
Speaker 2 (18:09):
You know the same thing with I'm sure there were
a lot of Elizabethan you know.
Speaker 3 (18:15):
Poets who wrote who wrote plays, but we don't know.
There's only a couple that ever be remember, so there could.
There's a lot of television shows, but there's not very
many that have had the impact and have the longevity,
and so many people so glad to see, uh, you
know you those characters come back on screen again and
share their new experiences and continue on the journey with them.
Speaker 1 (18:39):
Absolutely, I mean it has been obviously just an experience
that we never could have ever imagined even remotely.
Speaker 3 (18:49):
And I have to say Sex and the City was
I mean, there are shows, you know, people talk all
the people don't compare Sex and the City and sopranos.
Speaker 2 (18:56):
They don't compare. They'll compare the dramas together or the
comedies together. But for me, especially with.
Speaker 3 (19:02):
The timing and everything, but for me with the audience
that we didn't have before.
Speaker 2 (19:07):
We didn't have a big female audience on HBO.
Speaker 3 (19:09):
We had boxing and you know, we had to stand
up comedy shows and sex and the city was was
was really the game changer for us.
Speaker 2 (19:18):
And it's not about more reviews or more or or
or more awards.
Speaker 3 (19:26):
It was the cultural impact of that and the the
you know sort of how it just became into the lexicon.
Speaker 2 (19:37):
Absolutely people's lives.
Speaker 3 (19:39):
And I mean to the point of view about you know,
the title of your podcast, you know You're Charlotte. I mean,
it was all people were that was those were real
conversations people.
Speaker 1 (19:49):
Were, I know, and they still have them, which is insane,
But I think it's important to say that, you know,
and I know as an actor. When I when Darren
sent me the first script, I wasn't really aware of
Kansas's colle but the idea that there would be a
show with four lead women who were unabashedly over thirty
was shocking. I was like, what I have to be
(20:11):
on this show? Like, when you really think back, it's
hard to even remember how unusual that was, and what
a risk it was.
Speaker 4 (20:18):
What did you think about that?
Speaker 3 (20:19):
Well, you know, it was right about the time that
that was I don't know if it was Time magazine
or whatever.
Speaker 2 (20:24):
It was, that thing that came out where like a.
Speaker 3 (20:26):
Woman over thirty had had, you know, more of a
chance of being hit by lightning than getting married, right, yes,
And so, oh my god, that was a statement that
probably hit a lot. I mean, I don't know how
many people saw it, but it certainly traveled in in
you know, conversations with people.
Speaker 2 (20:44):
And then I think this show came on and the
heels of that, right, and on one hand.
Speaker 3 (20:51):
Illustrated those challenges and yet on the other hand, really
humanized it and the desires and also even though you know,
the show was bittersweet in many ways, but it was
life affirming.
Speaker 4 (21:04):
Absolutely. It was joyous.
Speaker 3 (21:06):
Yeah, because these women were successful people. I don't mean
successful in their jobs. It was all those things. But
they persevered in spite of you know, the challenges first
of being a woman, right, and and then and you know,
secondly the all of the you know, other cultural and
(21:28):
physical things that happened. And now seeing the characters years later,
it adds another whole dimension, but it was it was.
It was definitely it was a risk for us to
take back then, but a risk. If you had those
odds in Vegas, you probably wouldn't play, but if you
got that result in Vegas, you'd go home a happy person.
Speaker 1 (22:00):
The other thing I think about is when I remember
my audition, my test or whatever you would call it,
and I mean literally I think there was you and Carolyn,
maybe Michael Hill was there, maybe Kerry Barton was there
or Billy Hopkins one or the other, but and Darren,
Like there was so few of you.
Speaker 3 (22:19):
Yeah, I don't think that. I think it was probably
Darren and certainly Carolyn and me and maybe Michael Hill
and maybe.
Speaker 4 (22:31):
Carme oh yeah, CARMEI right, but so few like it
was it tiny?
Speaker 2 (22:35):
Yeah, but maybe not.
Speaker 3 (22:37):
We were really only only a couple. And that's how
we did it. I know that's how we did it.
Speaker 2 (22:41):
And it became our way of.
Speaker 3 (22:48):
Being able to make the casting decisions that were part
of making the show successful because obviously critical, that's.
Speaker 2 (22:56):
What the audience sees.
Speaker 3 (22:58):
And as you know, oh, there were even some changes
along the way.
Speaker 2 (23:02):
I mean, the first person cast as uh.
Speaker 3 (23:05):
Samantha wasn't Kim right right, And then Kim became available
and Darren called me and he said, I really had
her in mind.
Speaker 2 (23:14):
What do you want to do?
Speaker 3 (23:15):
And I said, well, We're spend a lot of money
on this, and you know, if you think this is
the right thing to.
Speaker 2 (23:21):
Do, let's do it.
Speaker 3 (23:25):
So uh, yeah, history you know made before yeah, or
we even got on the on on on the floor
for the first rehearsal, I know.
Speaker 1 (23:35):
And it's just it's just mind boggling to think about.
First of all, I love you know, I had Alan
Culter came on and and talked about he had been
on Soprano's first season and then you guys had said, hey,
would you go over there and work on Sex and
the City and bring some you know, kind of more
cinematic you know, qualities to it, which he absolutely did,
and I'd love hearing what he remembers. I feel like
(23:57):
once we kind of started cross populating the directors, our
production value, you know, really leapt up, which was part
of the magic of being there.
Speaker 3 (24:07):
You know, you know, and from the very beginning, Darren
wanted New York City to be to be a character
in the show, and you know, a lot like the Sopranos,
which we shot in Jersey. You know, Sex and the
City would not have been the same show. How do
we not shot it in New York and not shot
in New York the way we shot it?
Speaker 2 (24:25):
Yeah, you know it became Look.
Speaker 3 (24:29):
Shows always get a boost when the audience wants to
be the people on screen and wants to live the
lives they're living. And certainly in spite of all the emotional,
you know, challenges and psychological conflicts that the characters had
within themselves and sometimes with each other, I think the
(24:51):
audience always said.
Speaker 2 (24:53):
I either want to be them or I want to
be their friend.
Speaker 4 (24:56):
Yeah, which is so nice.
Speaker 1 (24:58):
I sometimes still fe apologetic because you know, these young
girls will move there and then then I'll run into
someone somewhere and they'll be like, oh, I moved there
when I was twenty five, and you know, it's really
hard to get a cab or just like really basics.
I'm like, I'm so sorry that we didn't always it
wasn't always accurate, you know what I'm saying. It was
a little bit glamorized, as we know, with the shoes
and you know what I'm saying, Like I wouldn't spend
(25:20):
a day in those shoes in the city if I
weren't playing Charlotte for goodness sake, But that was the
fun of it, you know.
Speaker 3 (25:27):
In so it is, it is show business, but it's
show business that it's.
Speaker 1 (25:30):
Best, absolutely absolutely, and I feel, you know, as the
show went on, I mean, just I'm curious, you're I mean, first.
Speaker 4 (25:39):
Of all, how did you feel about us ending the show?
Speaker 2 (25:42):
I never wanted it to end. It was I mean,
it was.
Speaker 3 (25:48):
I guess Michael and Sarah Jessica's decision. Yeah, and obviously
if Michael didn't feel there was more in it. We
were not the type of place to change horses, right
and continue with the framework without the heart.
Speaker 4 (26:02):
No, that would have been crazy.
Speaker 3 (26:03):
And I don't know that any of you would have
done that. So, but you know, we definitely I'm like,
I wish I would have had more episodes every season,
you know, but there were people that had limitations with
their schedules and.
Speaker 4 (26:16):
Life babies started happening.
Speaker 3 (26:18):
Yeah, I mean, I think we could have gone on
at least another couple of seasons and it would have
been to all of our benefits.
Speaker 1 (26:25):
Certainly mine, I agree one hundred percent. Now let me
ask you about this. Do you remember how we had
this plan that we were going to do the film
but then we ended, which was largely based I mean
really in my mind, I think creatively, yes, it was
it's very hard to make a show every week, right
or whatever.
Speaker 4 (26:43):
You know, we weren't making it every week, but you
know what.
Speaker 1 (26:44):
I'm saying, it's really hard the pressure of the writing
and whatnot the creative team. And I think that pressure,
you know, had somewhat taken a toll on Sara, Jessica
and Michael, as you said, but also, you know, Cynthia
had a baby, Sir, Jessica had a baby. You know,
you have that you're so torn by being parent as
you know, and feeling like you need to be the
best parent you can be. And but when we had
(27:05):
been working, my perception of it was that it was,
you know, all encompassing, like our our lives were about
the show and promoting the show and riding this wave
that had happened, you know, kind of unexpectedly, and I
think all of us really knew that it was, you know,
a once in a lifetime situation, right, So it was like,
(27:26):
remember we would jet around you know with you Yes,
I remember.
Speaker 2 (27:29):
Yes, we had a good time. We had a good time.
Everybody worked hard, but we made sure to have some fun.
Speaker 4 (27:35):
Yes, I mean, I remember when She's Nevus. Do you
remember that on the horses?
Speaker 1 (27:39):
It was so much fun with all the cable guys,
the cable cowboys. I mean, just amazing times, amazing times.
But I think so then we were going to do
the film right. But then like we didn't. We didn't
really know who would make the film. Do you remember
all this strength?
Speaker 2 (27:55):
I remember?
Speaker 3 (27:55):
So what happened was I commissioned the script right, and
we didn't have the film sold, and I didn't know
how we were going to get it financed. And then
and we're trying to put together budgets, but we were
really you know, it was one of those times when
HBO became timid because it was getting out of our
(28:15):
comfort zone for some people. And then to my memory, anyway,
I think the the product, the Devil Wears product movie
came out and I said to everybody, I said, that's
our movie.
Speaker 2 (28:30):
I said, they just did our movie.
Speaker 4 (28:33):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (28:33):
So then the momentum went back.
Speaker 3 (28:37):
And the movie I had gone to Newline and they
jumped in, which gave us the sort of film credibility,
and then kind of kind of it was within the
company also because they were a division of Time Warner,
as was HBO, so.
Speaker 2 (28:54):
It put it on a track. And then of course Michael.
Speaker 3 (29:00):
Wrote the script and then you know, in a not
unheard of move but a somewhat unusual move, Michael got
to direct it right, and everybody came on board. And really,
I look at the first films.
Speaker 2 (29:15):
As the finale to the series.
Speaker 4 (29:18):
So much, yes, yes, yes, yes, so much.
Speaker 1 (29:21):
And that's what was really wonderful about it, because when
we did end the show, the only reason that I
didn't completely fall apart, which I set fell apart, because
I really passionately loved the show, as you know, but
I really did believe in my heart that we would
do a film.
Speaker 4 (29:36):
I didn't know how. I mean, it was really odd.
Speaker 1 (29:38):
It was like you're taking one thing in one medium
and even though of course it's still storytelling, you'd need
a film company and distribution and all of the things,
like it's a different animal in so many ways, and
you guys hadn't done that yet, so it didn't there
wasn't a clear tract for it to be going on, right,
It took a lot of creativity on everyone's part to
make it work out. But I did believe that was
(29:59):
going to happen or I have really been just fully
decimated because I never really want us to end, which
you know, like I don't know that's rat at this point.
Speaker 5 (30:08):
But.
Speaker 4 (30:10):
Yeah, it's hard when you.
Speaker 1 (30:11):
Have something that you love so much, you know, it's
like it's just so like I could not have a
better creative experience.
Speaker 2 (30:19):
I think we all love that show.
Speaker 3 (30:21):
I think it was it was it was, you know,
considering how successful it was, it had a really unusually
small amount of problems. Yeah, and you know, because the
show is you got to keep a group of people together.
Speaker 2 (30:35):
For a long time.
Speaker 3 (30:37):
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, and no matter how good friends they
are on camera, it doesn't mean that they're that that
they're that.
Speaker 2 (30:42):
Way in real life.
Speaker 4 (30:43):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (30:44):
Well, but yes, I think the movie was really important.
Speaker 3 (30:48):
And again to my memory, it was a while ago now,
you know, twenty years ago. Uh, the product film helped
prod into you of doing it. Yeah, because and it
may have been Michael Patrick that first said it to me,
but it was like, okay, and and even as much
(31:10):
as I enjoyed that film, I thought our film was
a bigger experience because it was the end of a
journey that had taken you know, had taken years, and
for the first time, really the show gave the audience
what it had been craving.
Speaker 4 (31:27):
So true. Yeah, that's so true. I hadn't thought about that.
Speaker 1 (31:31):
But it had a more complete because in a you know,
a two hour storytelling, you're able to complete things in
a way and go deeper as opposed to Like, one
of the things when I'm rewatching the show that I'm
really amazed by is how much we could do in
a relatively short time. In the show, they're not that long,
and so much happens, and it's like funny and then
(31:55):
deep and then silent for a second and funny and
like it's it's very I'm super impressed by us.
Speaker 2 (32:02):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (32:02):
Well, a series has the advantage, especially serialized, of being
able to tell a story over a much longer period
of time, getting to know the characters in a different way,
and a film hasn't. But that's a big challenge. A
film has an advantage in that it gets to tell
the beginning, middle, and end of a story all in
one sitting, and so it's a different you know, a
different structure and can be a more satisfying experience in
(32:29):
a way, because you know, you get to sit down
at the meal, eat it and have dessert, and pay
the check and leave.
Speaker 1 (32:37):
Totally, totally, totally. I do also think that as time
goes by, like when you first start, especially the pilot,
the pilot is physically so dark that you're like.
Speaker 4 (32:48):
Where are we?
Speaker 1 (32:48):
I mean, it's very cool, like it's interesting, but you know,
as time went on, like we're beautifully lit, you know,
and the production values are just keep rising and rising
and rising, and then the film it's like whoa, you know, somebody,
let us really play. And we kind of have had
trouble coming back from that, I will say, like we
had we had these thoughts that when we came back
(33:09):
to doing just like that, that we were going to
try to be like our early selves when we would
like film on one corner and then like wheel the
lights down the block, you know, and like have a
handheld scene on the other corner. Well, we can't go
back to that. It's impossible, you know what I mean, And.
Speaker 2 (33:26):
The audience expects something different.
Speaker 3 (33:27):
I mean, I look, even in the pilots, as central
as the women were, there were lots of other things
going on, and as the show evolved quickly it became
those four women right as the center of the center
of the heart of the show.
Speaker 1 (33:44):
Absolutely absolutely all right, is there anything that you want
to talk about that we didn't just thank you? Oh
my god, no, for all that you did for all
of us, you thank you. You really are like our
you know, special godfather who you know not only greenlit
and put us together like so thoughtfully put the pieces
(34:08):
together of what is still you know, in existence. And
we couldn't love each other much more, you know, we
couldn't be more thankful for what you guys created.
Speaker 2 (34:17):
Thank you. We took that journey together and it changed
all of our.
Speaker 4 (34:20):
Lives, I know it.
Speaker 1 (34:21):
And you, I mean you basically gave us, especially myself.
I mean all of us are a little different, as
you know, but for myself you you really you you gave.
Speaker 4 (34:31):
Me my career and I can't thank you enough.
Speaker 3 (34:34):
You know, Christy, I got to say, you were pretty easy.
Speaker 5 (34:39):
Thank you.
Speaker 4 (34:40):
I appreciate that. I really do, I really do.
Speaker 1 (34:42):
I love our I love our team, and I'm happy
to be in a collaborative you know situation.
Speaker 4 (34:47):
I that's part of the joy of it for me,
you were that.
Speaker 2 (34:51):
You were definitely definitely that.
Speaker 1 (34:53):
Thank you, babe, Thank you, and thank you for being on.
It's so special to get to hear from you.
Speaker 4 (34:58):
I feel so lucky.
Speaker 2 (34:59):
Maybe I get to see you person one of these days,
we're sure.
Speaker 4 (35:02):
Let's have been with Dave.
Speaker 2 (35:03):
Yeah. Great.
Speaker 1 (35:05):
I'm so glad that he connected us. And Michael sends
his love and he's so.
Speaker 4 (35:09):
Happy that you're talking to me.
Speaker 2 (35:10):
Please send mine.
Speaker 4 (35:11):
I will.
Speaker 1 (35:12):
I love to have the tapestry of all of us
who are there in the beginning. I want it to
be here for people to find and discover and hear
from the different points of view of like what it
was like to be together back then.
Speaker 2 (35:24):
Well, I'm glad you're doing this, and thanks for including me.
Speaker 4 (35:26):
Thank you, Chris.
Host
Kristin Davis
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