November 3, 2025 • 42 mins
Is there anything worse than being at brunch with your besties and discovering your ex is married and oh, you're still in love with him. Queer Eye For Straight Guy and television personality Karamo Brown has a hot take on all of it. And Kristin reveals another way she and Charlotte are one in the same.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hi, I'm Kristin Davis, and I want to know are
you a Charlotte?
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Hi?
Speaker 1 (00:11):
Everybody, welcome back to Are You a Charlotte? We are
here today with Caromo Brown. It's so exciting. You might
know him from Queeri for the Straight Guy, but also
he has his own talk show. Now, let's hear all
about it.
Speaker 3 (00:28):
Well, I've always wanted to talk to us since I
was like nine years old.
Speaker 4 (00:32):
This is my childhood dream. Yeah, I used to.
Speaker 3 (00:35):
My mother found my middle school yearbook the other day
and I should bring it in and I wrote in
there hopefully you'll be a guest on my stage one day.
And so I've been manifesting this forever. And it's only
because I'm nosy as hell. I'm so nosy.
Speaker 4 (00:52):
I want to know everyone's business.
Speaker 3 (00:55):
Like, if you have any gossip, please call my phone.
I am no one to tell.
Speaker 4 (01:01):
Okay, okay, I can keep a secret. I can okay.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
Okay, that's good. That's good.
Speaker 4 (01:06):
I'm a vault okay good.
Speaker 3 (01:07):
And so so I just want to I want to
date time talk show where I could also be nosy
but also help people because as a little kid, you know,
I felt super alone. I felt super like no one
understood me. I feel like I didn't understand where to
get help from. You know, just like nowadays people have
Instagram making to swipe their stories that people are get
(01:28):
a million people getting advice.
Speaker 4 (01:29):
But you know, I'm in my forties forties.
Speaker 3 (01:31):
And there was nobody giving me advice on Instagram.
Speaker 4 (01:34):
Ordn't know where to go, definitely, And.
Speaker 3 (01:36):
So my goal is to do that and to have
it now a show where it's fun, it's entertaining, we're
a little messy, but also people get real advice on
how to be better.
Speaker 4 (01:46):
It makes you.
Speaker 3 (01:48):
We're in season four at a time where like we're
a time where show get canceled quickly daytime.
Speaker 2 (01:54):
No joke.
Speaker 1 (01:55):
Wow, that's so nice and so nice because sometimes as
great as in Instagram is in terms of being able
to connect people, at the same time, I feel like
it's a little bit dangerous in terms of advice because
you don't necessarily know where that advice is coming from or.
Speaker 2 (02:11):
You know what I'm saying, Like it worries me a little.
Speaker 1 (02:14):
My kids are not on social media so far, and
I'm glad about that, but I do feel like you
can kind of find your people that way. In some
ways right, But at the same time, sometimes the advice
I'm like, I don't know if we should listen to that.
Speaker 4 (02:30):
Of course.
Speaker 3 (02:30):
Well, one of the big things for me is like
my talk short even like when I'm giving advice on
social media, I don't give generic advice. If I'm going
to give you advice, I'm going to give you a
step that needs to come with it. I think that's
always the thing that misses, like here's the actual step.
Like I hate when people say get better self esteem.
Speaker 4 (02:47):
I might do that. I already had it. It's like
I already had it. I would have already had it.
Speaker 3 (02:51):
I would have already if you like get out that relationship,
that's bad.
Speaker 4 (02:55):
If I could have, I would already been out of it.
Speaker 3 (02:57):
This was a good point, clearly, you know it's I
love the push, but the push has to come with
clear instructions. And so that's one thing that about Instagram
for me, like instructs people if you want to.
Speaker 4 (03:07):
Do this, but also like tell them what you've been through,
where you're at. And definitely I think that's part of
what I love about you. You're very transparent. If I
can be honest, Thanks, you.
Speaker 3 (03:17):
Do share, You do share and you get you. Thank you,
and that's something you're welcome.
Speaker 4 (03:22):
And I do it as well, and I appreciate that,
you know what I mean, Yeah, you do.
Speaker 3 (03:25):
Like no one's asking you to give your full life,
but like we know, people in this business stage sometimes don't.
Just you have to get piece of yourself and it's
when people connect and that's why we connect with you.
Speaker 4 (03:34):
That's true.
Speaker 2 (03:35):
Thank you. I mean, it's been a journey.
Speaker 1 (03:37):
It's been a journey, like we we Adam and I
were talking earlier about like you know, because I've been
doing this for a long time, right, and the industry
has changed obviously so much and is in the you
know turmoil currently right changing again. And when we first started,
you know, wanting to act and acting, we didn't know
(03:58):
that we were going to need to share so much
of ourselves, do you know what I'm saying, Like we
were afraid of it in a lot of ways, you know,
like we were in.
Speaker 3 (04:06):
Protect Yeah, back then, the industry was your condition. You
have to be this and you don't share your personal
life unless you want to be in the tabloid if
you want to be scandalous.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
Right to share, right, right, But now I think it's
nice in some ways that the walls have come down,
but I also feel like then, like for my kids,
I'm always a little worried about protecting them because they
didn't choose my job, you know, before they were born obviously,
so I don't necessarily want them to, you know, be
(04:39):
subjected to all the stuff.
Speaker 2 (04:41):
You know what I'm saying, like, how do you deal
with that?
Speaker 4 (04:43):
With you?
Speaker 2 (04:43):
With your kids?
Speaker 3 (04:45):
You know, it's the thoughtfulness, And I think that's the
key thing for parents. I think the more thoughtful you
can be in putting kids your yourself and kids choose
is the greatest gift that you can ever give. And
and anytime I make a decision, all always put myself
in the issues. And sometimes as parents we think we
know best and we forget, Like it's hard when you're
(05:07):
younger and people have an opinion of you, but also
when they have opinion of your family, right, and you know,
and this is not just because we're in the industry.
This goes for anybody, Like when you find out someone's
your neighbor's dad has done this.
Speaker 4 (05:22):
As much as you think it's just the adults, the kids.
Speaker 3 (05:24):
Come around and they pick on them, and I think
that thoughtfulness is something that I wish more parents, you know, had,
because especially on my daytime talk show, you wouldn't believe
how many parents I come across that very still to
this day, that old school feeling of like I'm the
parent when I say go what I say do? Does
you know whatever I believe is what you believe?
Speaker 4 (05:44):
You know what I mean?
Speaker 3 (05:45):
If you don't like it, get out of my house
if you don't want it. And these are things that
we hear. This is you know, like we've heard this.
I'm sure you've heard one of your friends say one
of those things or a variation of those things, like
good job, thank God for your.
Speaker 1 (06:00):
Now my friends, we're all in the other group of
like we're trying to do it differently, and then maybe
we might air too far on the other side.
Speaker 2 (06:09):
Do you know what I mean?
Speaker 4 (06:10):
I got it? Got it? Yes?
Speaker 3 (06:12):
Yes, yes, we're you giving too much freedom or something. Well, listen,
I still believe. I still believe that the first step
is not forgetting that these kids are still little humans
that have to live in this world, that have their
own thought, free will, and I think respecting that is
something that is lost.
Speaker 4 (06:30):
And so I applause you for doing that. You know,
if you're going on the other end, we can talk
about that.
Speaker 1 (06:38):
I don't want to talk too much about that because
then we'll be on a whole lot of sud.
Speaker 2 (06:41):
But you know what I want to ask you about.
Speaker 1 (06:43):
And then because I saw one on the bio about
your show, like and because of your own life and
your own you know, kind of really interesting way that
your life unfolded in terms of your children and your
own sexuality.
Speaker 2 (06:54):
And your career.
Speaker 1 (06:56):
Right, it's all very interesting and unusual, you know when
you look.
Speaker 2 (06:59):
At Sex and the City.
Speaker 1 (07:00):
Because when I saw the actual episode that we have
you breaking down, which is Attack of the Five foot
ten Women, I was like, oh, I don't know if
this is the right episode to have Gromo, but here
you are, and we're happy to have you.
Speaker 2 (07:10):
But like it's a kind of very.
Speaker 1 (07:14):
Gender normative type of an episode for us, you know
what I'm saying, Like, what do you think about, Like
what's your perspective on Sex and the City and your
own like feelings on gender roles?
Speaker 3 (07:28):
Yeah, well, Sex and the City for me because I'm
a gay man, obviously my bread.
Speaker 4 (07:33):
And butter like you, Yeah, yeah, we're looking at and so.
Speaker 3 (07:41):
General for me when I was a kid made me
feel safe because being a gay man and knowing at
a very young age, this.
Speaker 4 (07:48):
Is who I am, this is.
Speaker 3 (07:50):
Who I hope to love one day, I knew that
I had them in ways, and when I would when
people would see me in the kitchen wanting to like
bake or do something that I thought was so fun
and just was me being creative, all of a sudden,
it was like also a way for people to pinpoint
that I was different and that I was you know this,
And it was hard because it was like, why why
(08:13):
can't I enjoy these things? Why can't I do these
things without being pinpointed as something else? And as I
become an adult, you know, I'm free of that, and
you know I don't subscribe to gender roles, you know,
in that way anymore. And actually, you know, when I
talk to men, if I can be very real with you,
I think most straight men, being a straight man is
a prison, and I think most straight men.
Speaker 4 (08:35):
Are in prison. And it's the truth.
Speaker 3 (08:38):
I look at my straight buddies and the way that
they have to control their thoughts, their movements, their actions
because they're afraid that if one person catches one thing.
There's going to be a joke, or there's gonna be
a landslide of something that they feel they can't control
or they can't handle. And it is so it's heartbreaking
sometimes because I get my straight male friends and sorry
(09:03):
to go down this path, but I get my male
friends who come over my house and they will go
after like a couple of times, their guard will get
let down, and you see the little boy in them
that wasn't stifled by.
Speaker 4 (09:16):
The world and this gender role.
Speaker 3 (09:18):
You see them see something that's exciting and they get
excited and they're flopping around, and then they'll stop for
a moment.
Speaker 4 (09:24):
Because they're like, hold on, I wasn't supposed to be
doing that.
Speaker 3 (09:27):
And then they realize like, oh no, I'm in a
safe space and I can flop around and be excited
because I'm a human being, and emotions, whether they're happy, sad,
excited not come. And I just feel so sad for
so many men that take these gender roles and have
put themselves in a prison of who they think they
have to be instead of just being their holistic self
(09:49):
and knowing that the women in their lives will love
them and appreciate it more, will appreciate them more, the
more they can be authentic and share and being yourself
doesn't mean that it takes away from you being able
to provide security, doesn't mean it takes away from you
being able to to be a protector, whatever things do
you think that you need to be. But it also
(10:09):
allows you to say, like when you were five years
old and you were running around and dancing in the
dirt or dancing and having fun, you still get to
be that, You still get to dance, like sure, but
what we do know is that many straight guys feel
like they can't they get in public and they're like,
and now I feel.
Speaker 2 (10:27):
Really bad for the straight men right now. I think
they're a.
Speaker 3 (10:30):
Confusion of frison and a confusion, and it breaks my heart.
Speaker 1 (10:35):
I said, And I also see some I feel like
there's some generational shifts happening with that though, like I
feel like the younger men might not be so much controlled.
Speaker 2 (10:47):
I'm hoping.
Speaker 3 (10:48):
I live in New York and in la as well,
like back and forth. I think in our coast we do.
But when I go back to Texas, it is getting
it is getting it is getting worse.
Speaker 4 (10:57):
It's getting worse. Yet it's getting worse for them where.
Speaker 3 (11:02):
Now because of the the I call the algorithm divide. Now,
because of the algorithm divide, it's a real thing. These
young boys feel like they have to choose a side.
Speaker 4 (11:14):
They have to take a.
Speaker 3 (11:16):
Strong stand, either on this side algorithm or that side
which has got them deeper into this prison of like
I cannot even express ideas or thoughts of creativity or
love because if I am not connected with this side
of the algorithm, then then I'm.
Speaker 4 (11:33):
Going to be perceived to be on that side.
Speaker 3 (11:36):
And and so for me, when I look at those places,
I think that's part of what we see that is
killing our country.
Speaker 4 (11:42):
It's killing our you know.
Speaker 3 (11:44):
So I have this little thing that I did with
I've done this with my mother's friend. My mother's seventy,
and I do with her friends. But I also just
did it recently my son. My son is twenty seven.
Speaker 4 (11:54):
I did it with three of his Yeah, he's.
Speaker 2 (11:56):
Very Oh that's impressive. Okay, Oh my gosh.
Speaker 3 (11:59):
Okay, I reset the algorithm. If you don't know you
can do that. I literally went to the Instagram and
I reset the algorithm.
Speaker 2 (12:05):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (12:05):
And what happened is when you reset someone's algorithm all
the things that they're being fed on a daily inside
of their homes, telling them about this, telling that it
goes away, and in a heartbeat, the things that you're
being fed have been lost. And then for about a
day and a half, the algorithm says who are you?
Speaker 4 (12:24):
Wow, and you have to type in who you are?
Speaker 3 (12:27):
You have to type in I want to see this,
I want to see It's the same thing when we
all started, before the algorm got it. So it's so
funny to see my sons who were getting this sort
of like ideas of what it was to be a man,
these things that they were supposed to watch, videos that
were a little bit more violent, a little bit more this,
a little bit more of that. And then I reset it.
And then all of a sudden, you saw on one
(12:50):
of my he wants to be he wants to be
the cello and now the street is full of like
cello stuff. And I was like, was it full of
it before? And he said no, And I was like, yeah,
because your algorithm took you so far away from who
you are that until you reseted it, you forgot that
that was a passion of yours, that was a love
there wasn't something that you were seeing because your algorithms
(13:10):
feeding everything else. And I tell them watch that, Yeah,
watch what you're being fed and it glides with who you.
Speaker 4 (13:16):
Want to be, and so that's good.
Speaker 3 (13:18):
So I just it's it's something that I try to
get my young boys, straight.
Speaker 4 (13:23):
Men or people to do. You set that algorithm if
you want to be better in life.
Speaker 2 (13:27):
That's a good point. I like that very very much.
Speaker 1 (13:30):
Yeah, neither of my children is on it the social media,
thank god so far. But even for my own algorithms,
like mine is mostly full of cat and dog videos
and elephants, which is great, but sometimes it's like the
algorithm just takes over and then sometimes it'll just be
like weird things on there, and you're just.
Speaker 4 (13:48):
Like, weird things.
Speaker 3 (13:49):
Yeah, you're like where yep, yep, Yeah, it's testing, it's
testing you.
Speaker 4 (13:53):
Yeah, it's a similar yeah.
Speaker 1 (13:55):
Like so, I mean it's not horrible stuff, but you know,
it's just random, right, I'm like, wait, are they just
trying to sell me stuff?
Speaker 4 (14:01):
Now?
Speaker 2 (14:01):
I don't know what's happening, but I like to talking
cat videos. It's good.
Speaker 1 (14:05):
All right, let's talk about the show for a minute.
How like when did you find the show.
Speaker 4 (14:11):
Sex and the City.
Speaker 3 (14:12):
Yeah, Oh my gosh, I found this show when I
was still in high school.
Speaker 2 (14:18):
Oh great, that's great.
Speaker 4 (14:19):
Yes, I was very early on. Like I said, I'm
a little gay boy.
Speaker 3 (14:22):
I'm clamoring fantastic, a powerful strong woman for them, an
ensemble girl, Sign me up.
Speaker 4 (14:27):
I'm done.
Speaker 2 (14:28):
Excellent, excellent. That's why do we exist? Yes? What you
all to find us?
Speaker 3 (14:33):
Yes?
Speaker 2 (14:33):
Indeed, yes, indeed, And.
Speaker 4 (14:35):
Even to this day, I still watch all the episodes.
Speaker 3 (14:37):
But when they were when they asked me to rewatch
this episode, I said, I don't need to rewatch it.
Speaker 2 (14:41):
Wow, I was so impressed.
Speaker 4 (14:43):
It's so I was like, I need to rewatch this.
Are you kidding me?
Speaker 3 (14:45):
That's just when she said the title, I already knew.
That's when when you were in there, you didn't want
to go and get you don't want to go into
the locker room. That's also the newspaper, right, you saw
the newspaper big getting mad.
Speaker 4 (14:59):
Yes, I'm like, I'm like, I'm a gay man. Test me.
I could go through that things.
Speaker 1 (15:13):
This is the joy of doing this podcast, because I
had never rewatched these episodes myself since we made them. Right,
so back in the day, they would send us a
VHS of like a rough cut before it aired on HBO,
and we would rush home and put it in the VHR.
You know what, what do you call it? I can't
beat whatever? Yeah, letters, and we would watch it. But
(15:34):
it might not have every scene, or it might have
like a graphic that's not done or whatever. But you know,
we were so excited to see it. But then I
didn't watch it because I was too busy. We were
working in I was learning my lines or whatever.
Speaker 2 (15:43):
Right, so rewatching it.
Speaker 1 (15:45):
Sometimes I don't remember stuff at all, you know, and
then sometimes I really really do, or I might remember
what's happening, you know, off camera that day or whatever.
Speaker 2 (15:54):
But a lot of it.
Speaker 1 (15:55):
I'm just so incredibly impressed with our writers, Like our
writing is just so great rate.
Speaker 3 (16:01):
I think that your show's one the show that has
stanned the test of time where you see these women
and even though the generation that it was displaying is different,
I still, especially for me being in a daytime talk show,
I see the women going through the same exact thing,
the same fears, the same ideas, the same thoughts, the
(16:23):
same conversations about maybe someone who's more sexual versus someone
who's more traditional and the divide it and so it
was ahead of its time in a beautiful way.
Speaker 2 (16:32):
So congratulation, thank you, We're so lucky.
Speaker 1 (16:35):
But it's also so fun to hear people who like yourself,
like literally know more about the show than I do.
Like it's so amazing, and it really impresses me so deeply,
you know, in terms of just like the incredible luck
to be part of something like that that lives on
for people Like for me, I was like attack of
the five foot ten Women. Okay, I know that's probably Natasha,
(16:57):
because I know who the five foot.
Speaker 2 (16:59):
Ten woman is.
Speaker 1 (17:00):
Literally all I remembered about this way, But but when
I start rewatching it, of course more things come back
to me, like like, this is the incredible episode where
Lynn Cohen comes on as Miranda's house housekeeper mag Dad.
Speaker 2 (17:15):
She's so brilliant.
Speaker 4 (17:17):
And her build.
Speaker 1 (17:20):
Oh my god, Virgin maryifying I had forgotten about that.
And and Magdalen Cohen stayed on into the movies, you know,
we had her for a very long time, and she
very sadly passed away not not too long ago. But
she was a great actress, a great, great actress, and
(17:41):
I just remember that the way that their relationship, Miranda
and Magda's relationship developed, because it starts out in this
very kind of uncomfortable way, and that Miranda's bought herself
this apartment. You know, she's doing well in her job
and she gets a housekeeper and it's a very big deal.
And Carrie's like, you have a housekeeper, you know, and
and then like she's arranging tea and Miranda's like, well,
(18:01):
I like coffee.
Speaker 2 (18:02):
And then you know, like one thing leads to another.
She's like, where's my hair dryer?
Speaker 1 (18:06):
If i'd my hair dryer, and then she she says,
I'm going to reorganize this drawer, and Mariana's like no,
and then she reaches she opens the bedside table and
there it is, and you know, she's so mortifying, so mortifying.
Speaker 2 (18:18):
And then the next time Miranda reaches in that drawer,
there's the Virgin Mary.
Speaker 1 (18:23):
And she has to stand up for herself and go
to Magna and say like, who is this lady in
my drawer?
Speaker 2 (18:29):
Which She's like such a crazy scene, and Mage's like,
that's the Virgin Mary. And then she says.
Speaker 1 (18:36):
You know something like she basically just has to stand up.
She says, I already have a mother and I don't
need another one. And I'm a single woman in New
York City and I do have a man that I like,
but also I have sex and I'm not gonna apologize
for it.
Speaker 2 (18:49):
And it's just so great.
Speaker 1 (18:50):
It's so great and like kind of interesting that it
needs to be done and that I feel like you
still kind of have to stand up for yourself, you
know in that way.
Speaker 4 (19:02):
Yes, yes, when we're on Queer.
Speaker 3 (19:04):
One of the main things that a lot of the
women that we help, that we you know, that will
support and their transformation, a lot of them are feelings
in their lives they have they don't know how to
find that voice to stand up for themselves. And that's
a big piece of like why we always especially they
come in they're like, well, I still have dreams, but
yet I don't know if I can say them everyone
(19:26):
I have to do for everyone else, but I don't
feel like I can stand up and say I need
time for me. And I think what that episode does
and why it's still and important today is it tells women.
It tells everyone that if you have something that is
important to you that is, whether it's a sex toy
or just your freedom to be who you are. You
have to stand up for It's true.
Speaker 2 (19:46):
It's true.
Speaker 1 (19:47):
Interesting because it was It's definitely a through line of
the show, and it's interesting to see the different.
Speaker 2 (19:52):
Ways that it shows up. Right.
Speaker 1 (19:54):
So, like Miranda, she's having this kind of very basic
situation where this woman has come into her house, she
feels judged. And then for Charlotte because they're going to
the which I do remember. This was directed by Pam Thomas,
who is a great director. Shoot. It's written by Cindy Shupac,
who has relatively newly joined the show. We first had
Darren Starr, then we had Michael Patrick King, then we
(20:15):
got Jenny Bakes and Cindy is our fourth writer that
we've hired full time.
Speaker 2 (20:18):
So now we've got two.
Speaker 1 (20:19):
Women, two men, and it's you know, we're firing on
all cylinders in this season three. This is when things
are really like clicking together, right, and you're really seeing
kind of the overall themes really really like cement themselves.
Speaker 2 (20:34):
In a way. Yes, and so Charlotte and.
Speaker 1 (20:37):
I remember this because I remember having a lot of anxiety.
That's what I remember about this episode is like I
didn't want to be wrapped up in a towel. I
feel really bad about my thighs. I still feel really
bad about my thighs. I am old now, and I
still feel really bad about my thighs.
Speaker 2 (20:51):
Like it is so.
Speaker 1 (20:53):
Ground into you as a young woman, you know, looking
at Vogue, looking at the six feet tall model, you
know it's twiggy figures. Still today you look at these
models like Paris Fashion, we just happened. They're tiny, tiny
things have not changed.
Speaker 4 (21:10):
Yeah, I mean they're.
Speaker 2 (21:11):
Supposed to have changed, but have they changed?
Speaker 4 (21:15):
They have any? Actually, I think we're regressing a lot
of ways. I mean, I don't know if you saw recently,
there was there's this pushback.
Speaker 3 (21:20):
On body positivity, and so it's it's gone, like it's
like there's no more, there's no more.
Speaker 4 (21:27):
Of accepting all body types.
Speaker 3 (21:28):
And it's just crazy that something that was just meant
to say, hey, we just love yourself, I love yourself
the way you are, has been returned to this idea
that no, it's wrong, it's wrong.
Speaker 2 (21:41):
We cannot let that stay. We can. I mean, I
have a fourteen year old daughter.
Speaker 1 (21:45):
And you know, I have to really really retrain myself
in terms of you know how I talk about food
and you know, because obviously I am still an actress, right,
but I talk about like healthy, you know. I try
to always focus on healthy, healthy, healthy, And like when
we did decide to go back to work and do
and just like that, I hired a trainer and it
was COVID still, so we were working out in the yard,
(22:07):
you know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (22:07):
Like I but in my youth, I would have been like,
I'm not thin enough to go back to work.
Speaker 3 (22:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:12):
Yeah, Now I just don't say that, you.
Speaker 1 (22:13):
Know, I've retrained my language or whatever, because I don't
want her like there's enough in the culture, you know,
everywhere you look right like, I want her to feel
powerful and strong and proud of her body. It's beautiful, beautiful,
but it's it's such an interesting thing that we have
to fight so hard for that, you know.
Speaker 4 (22:33):
It is it is, and I think a big part
of that I have to tell you.
Speaker 3 (22:36):
And this is where, like me, as a male, even
as a game man, I say that it's our responsibility
as well to step up.
Speaker 4 (22:41):
You know.
Speaker 3 (22:42):
When I when I see you know, the conversation that happened,
it's it's it's us to say this is not okay.
Speaker 4 (22:50):
It's for us to check other guys.
Speaker 3 (22:51):
And I'm always constantly telling my sons but as well
my friends. I'm like, yo, when you hear something like that,
you say something like, speak up, like don't let that slide.
You cannot let that slide. I think the more that
in the moment, in the moment, you can't decide, you
can't let one of your boys say something because you
think like, oh my gosh, this is fine, Like it's
(23:13):
just a joke. No, a joke for you is someone
else's self esteem being severely hurt. And for you that
joke it's a joke that you can laugh off and forget.
But for someone else that is now they're in their
living room or in their their bathroom every day, questioning
if they're enough, questioning if they look it's lodged in there.
Speaker 4 (23:32):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (23:33):
And I think it's that responsibility of if you know,
all I can do is speak.
Speaker 4 (23:36):
To other men.
Speaker 3 (23:36):
I mean I speak to everyone, But like I say,
you've got to speak up in a moment and say no, cut.
Speaker 2 (23:42):
That's not that's so good. It's so good.
Speaker 1 (23:44):
I mean, it's so interesting too write because like you know,
I'm from the generation that I'm from, and sometimes you're
you're just really hoping that things have changed. But you're right,
you can't ever like look away or just assume that
things are changing, because there's there's it's an ongoing struggle
all different ways.
Speaker 2 (24:01):
Yeah, big time.
Speaker 1 (24:04):
Okay, So the really big theme in this particular episode
is about as you brought up the newspaper, So I
had forgotten this totally. Where out brunch, you know, things
seem fine, Charlotte is like sadly looking at the wedding section,
and so we see she's she's looking and she's talking
about how like there's some twenty four year old who
(24:26):
previously had a job, as though of course now she
doesn't because she's married her stockbroker or whatever. Also still
so true, right, so interesting, And then of course she
turns the page and she sees that Big and Natasha
have gotten married. And I try to very badly hide
the newspaper under my elbow, and of course, you know,
(24:47):
Samantha's like, what is that, you know, and then her
face falls and you know, poor Carrie, and I had
totally forgotten the scene where I go back to Carrie's
apartment with her and Charlotte doesn't want to let her
be alone.
Speaker 2 (25:01):
I had forgotten that.
Speaker 1 (25:02):
But it's such a sweet, sweet scene and it's rare
that you see Charlotte comforting Carrie, you know, like usually
it's the other way around. Really nice, and I think
it was so smart of Charlotte, like this is an
area that she knows about, and she knows Carrie's going
to try to act like she's fine.
Speaker 4 (25:19):
Well.
Speaker 3 (25:19):
The funny part is that's the thing that I've always
loved about Charlotte's character is like, okay, even if you
go to the movie, that iconic thing when Big didn't
show up, and Charlotte's the one that's like, no, no,
She's always been that fierce protector of Carrie in love,
and it has been the most beautiful thing. She's always
been the one that's like, no, I understand love more
than any of these women, and I'm going to protect
(25:41):
your heart and encourage your heart, but make sure you're
not going to be alone in any of these moments.
That's a good I think that's what you saw. That's
what you see in that moment, She's like, no, I'm
going to be here for you.
Speaker 4 (25:50):
Let's read it.
Speaker 3 (25:51):
Let's read it together, and like, let's get through it
so you can have your cry and you're not going
to be alone, and then you're going to know that
love is still.
Speaker 4 (25:57):
Available for you. I think that's what Charlotte does. It's
so really great.
Speaker 2 (26:01):
Yeah, so true and very well put.
Speaker 3 (26:03):
But if you think about it, it's also like now Instagram,
Like imagine God day, you and Carrie's your character and
carried character would have been scrolling Instagram and saw the announcement.
Speaker 2 (26:16):
So true.
Speaker 3 (26:16):
This generation would never understand us opening up newspapers. No,
I know.
Speaker 1 (26:20):
I know, well every time we reach for like one
of those landlines or those old cell phones, it makes
me laugh so hard. But also I have such nostalgia
for it because things are changing so quickly now, like
just so quickly it's insane. But anyway, so then the
other really huge thing I just like to talk about
the big things first is I had also completely forgotten
(26:43):
that they go to try and close Miranda and Carrie
and they run into Natasha in the next dressing room.
Oh my god, I mean your worst nightmare really literally,
like I mean, I relate to this so much, like
you know, you think you think, like, okay, I've put
it over there. In that compartment, right, you know, and
(27:04):
I'm fine, I'm fine.
Speaker 2 (27:05):
I'm fine.
Speaker 1 (27:06):
And then like the literal woman walks out, you know,
and she's tall and beautiful and so cool. You know,
she's so composed, and Carrie's there.
Speaker 2 (27:16):
In her underwear trying to cover her soulf up.
Speaker 1 (27:19):
And later when she says, like, you know, she's like
she lists off the things like she's this, and she's beautiful,
and she's young, and she's tall, and I'm you know,
short and complicated in my hairs curly and like it's
just it's.
Speaker 2 (27:33):
So real to me.
Speaker 1 (27:35):
How Carrie, who we really think of as this very
powerful character, this powerful woman, is just so undone by
this situation, you know, by it not going the way
she thought, trying so hard for so long, you know,
to get Big to show his feelings and you know,
(27:56):
to try to like she tried so many things with them,
do you know what I mean? Like she's at the
door I saw the other day on Instagram or must
have been a TikTok where they have just different cuts
of her showing up at BIG's door and all the
different outfits like in her hair dominatrix outfit and her
French made, you know, the beret Like that's later, like
she just tries so.
Speaker 2 (28:17):
Hard, you know, it doesn't work.
Speaker 1 (28:19):
And then he marries this woman who is just the
opposite of her, which of course we know that that's
not going to work either, but she doesn't know that
at this point in time, right, Yeah, And it's just
so hard to feel, you know, good about yourself and
complete when this kind of thing has happened, even though
you know you should well.
Speaker 3 (28:36):
But I know, but it's because our culture always makes
us want to compare.
Speaker 4 (28:40):
When you said that scene, it it's so vivid of
like what she says.
Speaker 3 (28:44):
She's she's tall, she's beautiful, she's straight hair, I'm curly
hair with a sex columnists, you know, or something whatever.
Speaker 4 (28:52):
And it's and you know, one of my.
Speaker 3 (28:54):
Things that I've always say to people, it's a quote
that's not mine, but it's comparison to the thief of joy.
And I tell you that all the time time, it's
you steal your own joy. And what we saw in
that episode is her steal her own joy and still
and and forget how beautiful it is.
Speaker 4 (29:09):
And I always try to think to myself, why do
we do that?
Speaker 3 (29:13):
And what I love about this episode is it shines
the light on like we can't do that because as
we know, that young woman becomes the most accomplished adult
woman in the world.
Speaker 4 (29:23):
She becomes the.
Speaker 3 (29:24):
Writer, she becomes powerful, she becomes selfish, assured. But she
needed that lesson, and I think people forget instead of comparing,
we need to say that this was a complete lesson.
Speaker 4 (29:35):
That we needed for that moment.
Speaker 3 (29:37):
And I think the more you can shift that, yeah,
you can ship that mindset, the better off you are.
Speaker 2 (29:41):
I think that's great.
Speaker 1 (29:42):
I mean, I also think that we wouldn't have had
to show if she could do that exactly. We needed
all of them to be going through so much stuff,
so much stuff. Samantha's storyline over here is like the SPA.
(30:10):
Oh my god, the massuse. I had also forgotten about.
Speaker 4 (30:14):
I got fired. I totally my mind.
Speaker 2 (30:17):
I know, I know, I had totally forgotten that.
Speaker 1 (30:23):
And I literally have never ever in my life heard
of women getting happy endings at a massage place.
Speaker 4 (30:30):
Have you? No, I haven't. I think I.
Speaker 2 (30:36):
Guess that it seems like it would be weird with
the stranger.
Speaker 4 (30:40):
I don't know, I don't know.
Speaker 3 (30:41):
I think that maybe there could be a couple of
women if they were open to it, Like nothing I'd recommend,
but I think, like, why not.
Speaker 2 (30:50):
I mean that's true, Like I.
Speaker 4 (30:52):
Mean I do the establishment, maybe.
Speaker 1 (30:54):
Yes, in the class establishment. I mean I do feel
like massage. I haven't gotten one.
Speaker 2 (30:58):
In forever because I'm too busy with and whatever.
Speaker 1 (31:00):
But like it is such a like a wonderful treat,
you know, just to have, like and you don't need
to know the person. It's just comforting to just have
someone in your body, which is.
Speaker 3 (31:14):
Right.
Speaker 1 (31:14):
But the thing that also I had totally forgotten about
how Carrie and Samantha then go to that event that
Natasha is doing, you know, that charity event, but then
Natasha's not even there. Carrie buys these shoes and she
has tea with me and I said, she says, do
you want to see my shoes?
Speaker 2 (31:30):
And I was like, oh, you mean.
Speaker 1 (31:31):
The shoes you can't afford, which is foreshadowing her whole
shoe debt, you know, and then wanting the money from
me many seasons later. Like it's also interesting, like how
connected our writers were in terms of these little moments
that then build up over time. But then so Samantha
and Carrie go off to the to the event, you know,
(31:52):
looking fantastic.
Speaker 2 (31:53):
Then of course Natasha's not there, and then I had
totally forgotten that.
Speaker 1 (31:57):
They run into the woman at the bah who had
told Samantha that that particular messeuse went down on her,
and there are three women there, and the woman says,
that's the one who got him fired.
Speaker 2 (32:09):
And they're like, oh what, you got him fired? And
then this one woman says, well, who's gonna me now.
Speaker 4 (32:17):
What?
Speaker 1 (32:18):
And I'm like, oh my god, what kind of drama
was going on with this guy?
Speaker 2 (32:23):
I had forgotten all of that.
Speaker 1 (32:25):
I mean, it was quite something, but I mean almost
I would have to go back to Cindy and ask
her what this was based on, because usually all of
our storylines had to be based on something that had
happened to.
Speaker 2 (32:34):
The writers or their friends.
Speaker 1 (32:36):
It could be once removed like it wasn't the actors.
Everyone thought these were our stories. There were never our
stories that got because that would be very hard to
play your own story, right. Yes, yes, but it was
always had to be like based in a real story.
Speaker 3 (32:49):
So that means there are women out there that are
getting their happy endits I know.
Speaker 4 (32:54):
I mean I don't know aware.
Speaker 2 (32:55):
But yeah, I guess good for them.
Speaker 1 (32:57):
I mean, it's so bizarre to think about it. But
it's perfect for Samantha of course, because she really wanted
this and then she doesn't get it and she's really sad.
And then for me, I mean, I feel like, I mean,
I don't know. Of course, my whole storyline could absolutely
be based on me, because I hate my legs. You know,
they knew I hate my legs. I was always worried about,
you know, what I was wearing or whatever. And I
(33:19):
remember that this director of Pam Thomas, she had come
from the commercial world, and she always had a really
good visual eye. So I remember when I'm running through
the spa and it kind of has like comedy music,
you know, and I'm like trying to like little by
little ice. I hide behind this like tower of towels
and I let my towel down to my waist or whatever,
and then I run, I scurry like a little mouse
(33:41):
into the spa and then I take my towel down
and I'm all nervous, and then this woman goes I
would kill for your breasts, and I'm like, okay, like
you know who, this worked out like I hadn't known
about that.
Speaker 2 (33:56):
You know, which I had forgotten that whole thing.
Speaker 1 (33:58):
And I mean it's it's only like the comedic, you know,
you there was like there there'd be like an A, B, C.
D storyline for all four of us. And you know,
that's just how it is when you have for strong
leads or however you wanted to find it. And mine
is definitely the D. But I still love it, like
it has so much resonance that like you're worried about
one thing, you forget about what you have that other
(34:21):
people would want.
Speaker 3 (34:22):
You know what I'm saying, Yes, of course that's what
we're talking about earlier with the comparison, like to see
your character be validated later on about something that they
were confused about.
Speaker 4 (34:32):
I think it was the most beautiful part to see
me too right.
Speaker 1 (34:34):
Like she was sure would never think like, oh yeah,
I do have good press like you. She's like, oh wow,
this is an outcome I didn't foresee happening.
Speaker 2 (34:44):
I dig it, I dig it like it's nice.
Speaker 1 (34:46):
It's nice to see to like even just the little
moments of growth you know, along the way, because we.
Speaker 4 (34:52):
All know hbos where they were all still doing like
full bush in the locker room.
Speaker 3 (34:57):
I mean there was a.
Speaker 2 (34:58):
Lot of naked lady. I was shocked. I don't remember that.
Speaker 3 (35:04):
I was like, whoa do they pep you and say
when you walk on set there's gonna be forty million
naked ladies there?
Speaker 4 (35:11):
Like how did Like I mean they must have.
Speaker 1 (35:14):
They must have because we just a is back before
the intimacy coordinators, right, but we would still I mean, gosh,
you know, this is a good question because now what
you would need to do, Like there'd be so many
precautions taken, right, Like you know how you have video
village on a set.
Speaker 2 (35:29):
Right, Like, yeah, video village would have.
Speaker 1 (35:32):
Been like everyone would have been sent away and to
make sure there weren't like lookie loose, you know at
the village and all that to make those women feel
safe and protected. And this is a long time ago,
so who knows what happened then, And I didn't even
remember that it happened, right, So I'm not gonna remember this.
But I do think we would have like a clothes set,
you know, so let's say, like the larger crew wouldn't
(35:56):
be standing there, you know, like the lighting guys and
the grip you know what I mean, like all of
those people would go.
Speaker 2 (36:02):
But those ladies seemed really relaxed.
Speaker 1 (36:05):
I mean, I'm sure that they had been hired like
with the knowledge of, you know, what they were going
to do, you know what I mean. But I hadn't
remembered that there were that many naked ladies.
Speaker 2 (36:14):
There were a lot. There were a lot of naked ladies.
There were a lot. I mean it was kind of cool,
you know, because it was like relaxed. They were very relaxed.
Speaker 1 (36:24):
I mean, it's funny enough to look back because some
of these things I don't remember, and I'm like impressed
that we did it.
Speaker 3 (36:31):
Yeah, ahead of its time. That's why it's a cultural phenomenon.
Speaker 4 (36:35):
It's true.
Speaker 2 (36:36):
It's so nice.
Speaker 1 (36:36):
It's so nice that it still holds up and you
still don't don't see these things.
Speaker 2 (36:42):
Oh yeah, there's another funny little trivia thing.
Speaker 1 (36:45):
When they do go to this this writing luncheon that
we talk about, Carrie says she's checking in and they
have a weird moment where her name might not be
on there, and Samantha and she were talking and they
they say, oh, there's Gloria Steine across the room. Now
we never see Glorious Steinem in this particular scene. But
later on Gloria comes on our show and then just
(37:07):
like that, and all of us had been huge Glorious
Steinem fans, our moms were all you know, had Miss
magazine on the table when we were growing up.
Speaker 3 (37:14):
There was a big one where she reclaimed her power
when she found out that she spelled their wrong.
Speaker 4 (37:21):
Oh my god, that.
Speaker 2 (37:26):
I had forgotten that as well. I'd forgotten that as well.
So that is the scene after So.
Speaker 1 (37:31):
She goes to this lunch and thinking that she's going
to look fabulous and present herself beautifully, and then Natasha
isn't even there, which is kind of a disappointment. So
she goes home and the voice of her kind of
connects it all and Natasha, even though she didn't make
it to the event, sends out handwritten thank you notes,
which is kind of impressive, I think, But then when
(37:52):
she goes to read it, she realizes that Natasha has
spelled their wrongly for the sentence and for a writer,
of course, that's like hugely important. And she immediately calls
Miranda on her clunky old phone and says, I believe
She says it's.
Speaker 2 (38:12):
A good thing. She got married. The woman is an
idiot woo burn my god.
Speaker 1 (38:19):
But it is kind of that kind of definitely like
self claiming amongst ourselves, like you know what, we're we're smarter,
we're better, we can do these things.
Speaker 2 (38:31):
We're out here in the world.
Speaker 1 (38:33):
You know, we're not gonna get married, and like fall
back on that, you know, a greed.
Speaker 2 (38:39):
Wait, and then there's something.
Speaker 1 (38:41):
Oh oh, I didn't realize that the reference in the
title is to the nineteen fifty eight film Attack of
the Fifty Foot Woman. Oh ye, well, that kind of
makes sense then, because that's what she seems like to carry,
you know what I mean, And it does. My notes
here do tell me that the New York Times wedding
announcements are still a thing, which is funny as if
you're like coming from one of those families where it
(39:02):
was important, you can still do.
Speaker 2 (39:05):
The as well as the Instagram, you know what I mean?
Speaker 3 (39:08):
Right, So I want to get married and put that
in there, not because I really want it in there,
just because I want to have a moment where an
axe opens it up and season getting married.
Speaker 1 (39:17):
I mean, that's real, that's real, that's real, that's real.
Speaker 4 (39:22):
I do it.
Speaker 2 (39:23):
I mean, listen, you could do it if you wanted.
You know what I'm saying, Yeah, do what you want.
Speaker 4 (39:31):
And it's just also interesting not to do what your writers.
Speaker 3 (39:34):
Did really well, and why just to keep praising you all,
because it really is.
Speaker 4 (39:39):
I'm glad to give your flowers.
Speaker 3 (39:41):
Is those type of scenes, like we see Natasha is
insecure as well. She doesn't want to come, she doesn't
want to confront this anymore. This is not about like
because if I'm on the board.
Speaker 4 (39:51):
Of something, I'm to come. But it just shows that
we all have our own securities.
Speaker 3 (39:55):
We're all on our own head, and even the most
perfect amound among us, we're all making mistakes.
Speaker 4 (40:00):
And so the best lesson is just live your life
for you and love your life how it is.
Speaker 3 (40:04):
And I that's why when they said this was the episode,
I thought to myself, Oh, I know it.
Speaker 4 (40:09):
I know this episode because the rest.
Speaker 1 (40:12):
I'm so impressed I remember this episode at all.
Speaker 4 (40:17):
I'm super pair.
Speaker 2 (40:30):
I have a question for you. Yes, are you a Charlotte?
Speaker 3 (40:35):
So I believe that you have to find out from
other people.
Speaker 4 (40:38):
So before we got on this, the entire my entire.
Speaker 3 (40:41):
Coramo show staff was upstairs and a lot of them
have worked also worked with me on Queer Eye for
the last ten seasons. And I said, I need you
all to tell me who I am. And the general
consensus from everyone is that I'm a Charlotte.
Speaker 4 (40:56):
I'm a Charlotte. They all said it.
Speaker 2 (40:58):
That's so nice.
Speaker 3 (41:01):
I think the only part that got me because I'm
not as like prudish, you know what I mean. I'm
still like a gay man. I'm older, so like my
my hoey days are gone and then behind me.
Speaker 2 (41:11):
But you know, it was kind of a prude.
Speaker 1 (41:17):
But if you actually watch she actually you know, there
was a pretty high body count, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 4 (41:23):
Pretty high.
Speaker 3 (41:23):
Yes, you had our fun, yes, but yeah, they all said, No,
you're the romantic, You're the kind one.
Speaker 4 (41:29):
You're always like telling people to giving them an advice
and telling them to slow down and be good. And
so apparently I'm the Charlotte. I didn't know, and they
would have asked me. I thought they were going to
say I was like Miranda, but I guess I'm not.
I guess I'm not.
Speaker 1 (41:44):
You know, maybe you're a man of Miranda inside your
own head.
Speaker 4 (41:49):
In my head, I'm Miranda, right.
Speaker 2 (41:51):
I love it. I love it.
Speaker 1 (41:52):
I haven't had anyone yet go and take a poll,
So I really appreciate that research.
Speaker 3 (42:00):
Very nice, very because you know what, this is my thing.
When everybody talks about Second City, they all want to
claim who they are.
Speaker 2 (42:06):
Got it?
Speaker 4 (42:07):
No, no, you got it? And when they claim who
they are, I'm like, no, you're not that person.
Speaker 1 (42:11):
I know. I mean sometimes I do think like who
you are in your own mind. Yeah, it's not very
different than like how friends you or the world sees
your or whatever.
Speaker 4 (42:20):
You're pretty exceptional and amazing. Sweet, thank you.
Speaker 2 (42:25):
I'm so throng you came on the podcast. What a joy.
Speaker 4 (42:29):
Anytime anything for you.
Speaker 2 (42:30):
You're amazing. I would love to come on your show.
Speaker 4 (42:33):
You're great anytime.
Speaker 3 (42:34):
Yes listen, have a great day, and thank you so
much and good luck with everything you too.
Speaker 2 (42:41):
Thank you so much.
Speaker 4 (42:42):
By love
Hi, I'm Kristin Davis, and I want to know are
you a Charlotte?
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Hi?
Speaker 1 (00:11):
Everybody, welcome back to Are You a Charlotte? We are
here today with Caromo Brown. It's so exciting. You might
know him from Queeri for the Straight Guy, but also
he has his own talk show. Now, let's hear all
about it.
Speaker 3 (00:28):
Well, I've always wanted to talk to us since I
was like nine years old.
Speaker 4 (00:32):
This is my childhood dream. Yeah, I used to.
Speaker 3 (00:35):
My mother found my middle school yearbook the other day
and I should bring it in and I wrote in
there hopefully you'll be a guest on my stage one day.
And so I've been manifesting this forever. And it's only
because I'm nosy as hell. I'm so nosy.
Speaker 4 (00:52):
I want to know everyone's business.
Speaker 3 (00:55):
Like, if you have any gossip, please call my phone.
I am no one to tell.
Speaker 4 (01:01):
Okay, okay, I can keep a secret. I can okay.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
Okay, that's good. That's good.
Speaker 4 (01:06):
I'm a vault okay good.
Speaker 3 (01:07):
And so so I just want to I want to
date time talk show where I could also be nosy
but also help people because as a little kid, you know,
I felt super alone. I felt super like no one
understood me. I feel like I didn't understand where to
get help from. You know, just like nowadays people have
Instagram making to swipe their stories that people are get
(01:28):
a million people getting advice.
Speaker 4 (01:29):
But you know, I'm in my forties forties.
Speaker 3 (01:31):
And there was nobody giving me advice on Instagram.
Speaker 4 (01:34):
Ordn't know where to go, definitely, And.
Speaker 3 (01:36):
So my goal is to do that and to have
it now a show where it's fun, it's entertaining, we're
a little messy, but also people get real advice on
how to be better.
Speaker 4 (01:46):
It makes you.
Speaker 3 (01:48):
We're in season four at a time where like we're
a time where show get canceled quickly daytime.
Speaker 2 (01:54):
No joke.
Speaker 1 (01:55):
Wow, that's so nice and so nice because sometimes as
great as in Instagram is in terms of being able
to connect people, at the same time, I feel like
it's a little bit dangerous in terms of advice because
you don't necessarily know where that advice is coming from or.
Speaker 2 (02:11):
You know what I'm saying, Like it worries me a little.
Speaker 1 (02:14):
My kids are not on social media so far, and
I'm glad about that, but I do feel like you
can kind of find your people that way. In some
ways right, But at the same time, sometimes the advice
I'm like, I don't know if we should listen to that.
Speaker 4 (02:30):
Of course.
Speaker 3 (02:30):
Well, one of the big things for me is like
my talk short even like when I'm giving advice on
social media, I don't give generic advice. If I'm going
to give you advice, I'm going to give you a
step that needs to come with it. I think that's
always the thing that misses, like here's the actual step.
Like I hate when people say get better self esteem.
Speaker 4 (02:47):
I might do that. I already had it. It's like
I already had it. I would have already had it.
Speaker 3 (02:51):
I would have already if you like get out that relationship,
that's bad.
Speaker 4 (02:55):
If I could have, I would already been out of it.
Speaker 3 (02:57):
This was a good point, clearly, you know it's I
love the push, but the push has to come with
clear instructions. And so that's one thing that about Instagram
for me, like instructs people if you want to.
Speaker 4 (03:07):
Do this, but also like tell them what you've been through,
where you're at. And definitely I think that's part of
what I love about you. You're very transparent. If I
can be honest, Thanks, you.
Speaker 3 (03:17):
Do share, You do share and you get you. Thank you,
and that's something you're welcome.
Speaker 4 (03:22):
And I do it as well, and I appreciate that,
you know what I mean, Yeah, you do.
Speaker 3 (03:25):
Like no one's asking you to give your full life,
but like we know, people in this business stage sometimes don't.
Just you have to get piece of yourself and it's
when people connect and that's why we connect with you.
Speaker 4 (03:34):
That's true.
Speaker 2 (03:35):
Thank you. I mean, it's been a journey.
Speaker 1 (03:37):
It's been a journey, like we we Adam and I
were talking earlier about like you know, because I've been
doing this for a long time, right, and the industry
has changed obviously so much and is in the you
know turmoil currently right changing again. And when we first started,
you know, wanting to act and acting, we didn't know
(03:58):
that we were going to need to share so much
of ourselves, do you know what I'm saying, Like we
were afraid of it in a lot of ways, you know,
like we were in.
Speaker 3 (04:06):
Protect Yeah, back then, the industry was your condition. You
have to be this and you don't share your personal
life unless you want to be in the tabloid if
you want to be scandalous.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
Right to share, right, right, But now I think it's
nice in some ways that the walls have come down,
but I also feel like then, like for my kids,
I'm always a little worried about protecting them because they
didn't choose my job, you know, before they were born obviously,
so I don't necessarily want them to, you know, be
(04:39):
subjected to all the stuff.
Speaker 2 (04:41):
You know what I'm saying, like, how do you deal
with that?
Speaker 4 (04:43):
With you?
Speaker 2 (04:43):
With your kids?
Speaker 3 (04:45):
You know, it's the thoughtfulness, And I think that's the
key thing for parents. I think the more thoughtful you
can be in putting kids your yourself and kids choose
is the greatest gift that you can ever give. And
and anytime I make a decision, all always put myself
in the issues. And sometimes as parents we think we
know best and we forget, Like it's hard when you're
(05:07):
younger and people have an opinion of you, but also
when they have opinion of your family, right, and you know,
and this is not just because we're in the industry.
This goes for anybody, Like when you find out someone's
your neighbor's dad has done this.
Speaker 4 (05:22):
As much as you think it's just the adults, the kids.
Speaker 3 (05:24):
Come around and they pick on them, and I think
that thoughtfulness is something that I wish more parents, you know, had,
because especially on my daytime talk show, you wouldn't believe
how many parents I come across that very still to
this day, that old school feeling of like I'm the
parent when I say go what I say do? Does
you know whatever I believe is what you believe?
Speaker 4 (05:44):
You know what I mean?
Speaker 3 (05:45):
If you don't like it, get out of my house
if you don't want it. And these are things that
we hear. This is you know, like we've heard this.
I'm sure you've heard one of your friends say one
of those things or a variation of those things, like
good job, thank God for your.
Speaker 1 (06:00):
Now my friends, we're all in the other group of
like we're trying to do it differently, and then maybe
we might air too far on the other side.
Speaker 2 (06:09):
Do you know what I mean?
Speaker 4 (06:10):
I got it? Got it? Yes?
Speaker 3 (06:12):
Yes, yes, we're you giving too much freedom or something. Well, listen,
I still believe. I still believe that the first step
is not forgetting that these kids are still little humans
that have to live in this world, that have their
own thought, free will, and I think respecting that is
something that is lost.
Speaker 4 (06:30):
And so I applause you for doing that. You know,
if you're going on the other end, we can talk
about that.
Speaker 1 (06:38):
I don't want to talk too much about that because
then we'll be on a whole lot of sud.
Speaker 2 (06:41):
But you know what I want to ask you about.
Speaker 1 (06:43):
And then because I saw one on the bio about
your show, like and because of your own life and
your own you know, kind of really interesting way that
your life unfolded in terms of your children and your
own sexuality.
Speaker 2 (06:54):
And your career.
Speaker 1 (06:56):
Right, it's all very interesting and unusual, you know when
you look.
Speaker 2 (06:59):
At Sex and the City.
Speaker 1 (07:00):
Because when I saw the actual episode that we have
you breaking down, which is Attack of the Five foot
ten Women, I was like, oh, I don't know if
this is the right episode to have Gromo, but here
you are, and we're happy to have you.
Speaker 2 (07:10):
But like it's a kind of very.
Speaker 1 (07:14):
Gender normative type of an episode for us, you know
what I'm saying, Like, what do you think about, Like
what's your perspective on Sex and the City and your
own like feelings on gender roles?
Speaker 3 (07:28):
Yeah, well, Sex and the City for me because I'm
a gay man, obviously my bread.
Speaker 4 (07:33):
And butter like you, Yeah, yeah, we're looking at and so.
Speaker 3 (07:41):
General for me when I was a kid made me
feel safe because being a gay man and knowing at
a very young age, this.
Speaker 4 (07:48):
Is who I am, this is.
Speaker 3 (07:50):
Who I hope to love one day, I knew that
I had them in ways, and when I would when
people would see me in the kitchen wanting to like
bake or do something that I thought was so fun
and just was me being creative, all of a sudden,
it was like also a way for people to pinpoint
that I was different and that I was you know this,
And it was hard because it was like, why why
(08:13):
can't I enjoy these things? Why can't I do these
things without being pinpointed as something else? And as I
become an adult, you know, I'm free of that, and
you know I don't subscribe to gender roles, you know,
in that way anymore. And actually, you know, when I
talk to men, if I can be very real with you,
I think most straight men, being a straight man is
a prison, and I think most straight men.
Speaker 4 (08:35):
Are in prison. And it's the truth.
Speaker 3 (08:38):
I look at my straight buddies and the way that
they have to control their thoughts, their movements, their actions
because they're afraid that if one person catches one thing.
There's going to be a joke, or there's gonna be
a landslide of something that they feel they can't control
or they can't handle. And it is so it's heartbreaking
sometimes because I get my straight male friends and sorry
(09:03):
to go down this path, but I get my male
friends who come over my house and they will go
after like a couple of times, their guard will get
let down, and you see the little boy in them
that wasn't stifled by.
Speaker 4 (09:16):
The world and this gender role.
Speaker 3 (09:18):
You see them see something that's exciting and they get
excited and they're flopping around, and then they'll stop for
a moment.
Speaker 4 (09:24):
Because they're like, hold on, I wasn't supposed to be
doing that.
Speaker 3 (09:27):
And then they realize like, oh no, I'm in a
safe space and I can flop around and be excited
because I'm a human being, and emotions, whether they're happy, sad,
excited not come. And I just feel so sad for
so many men that take these gender roles and have
put themselves in a prison of who they think they
have to be instead of just being their holistic self
(09:49):
and knowing that the women in their lives will love
them and appreciate it more, will appreciate them more, the
more they can be authentic and share and being yourself
doesn't mean that it takes away from you being able
to provide security, doesn't mean it takes away from you
being able to to be a protector, whatever things do
you think that you need to be. But it also
(10:09):
allows you to say, like when you were five years
old and you were running around and dancing in the
dirt or dancing and having fun, you still get to
be that, You still get to dance, like sure, but
what we do know is that many straight guys feel
like they can't they get in public and they're like,
and now I feel.
Speaker 2 (10:27):
Really bad for the straight men right now. I think
they're a.
Speaker 3 (10:30):
Confusion of frison and a confusion, and it breaks my heart.
Speaker 1 (10:35):
I said, And I also see some I feel like
there's some generational shifts happening with that though, like I
feel like the younger men might not be so much controlled.
Speaker 2 (10:47):
I'm hoping.
Speaker 3 (10:48):
I live in New York and in la as well,
like back and forth. I think in our coast we do.
But when I go back to Texas, it is getting
it is getting it is getting worse.
Speaker 4 (10:57):
It's getting worse. Yet it's getting worse for them where.
Speaker 3 (11:02):
Now because of the the I call the algorithm divide. Now,
because of the algorithm divide, it's a real thing. These
young boys feel like they have to choose a side.
Speaker 4 (11:14):
They have to take a.
Speaker 3 (11:16):
Strong stand, either on this side algorithm or that side
which has got them deeper into this prison of like
I cannot even express ideas or thoughts of creativity or
love because if I am not connected with this side
of the algorithm, then then I'm.
Speaker 4 (11:33):
Going to be perceived to be on that side.
Speaker 3 (11:36):
And and so for me, when I look at those places,
I think that's part of what we see that is
killing our country.
Speaker 4 (11:42):
It's killing our you know.
Speaker 3 (11:44):
So I have this little thing that I did with
I've done this with my mother's friend. My mother's seventy,
and I do with her friends. But I also just
did it recently my son. My son is twenty seven.
Speaker 4 (11:54):
I did it with three of his Yeah, he's.
Speaker 2 (11:56):
Very Oh that's impressive. Okay, Oh my gosh.
Speaker 3 (11:59):
Okay, I reset the algorithm. If you don't know you
can do that. I literally went to the Instagram and
I reset the algorithm.
Speaker 2 (12:05):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (12:05):
And what happened is when you reset someone's algorithm all
the things that they're being fed on a daily inside
of their homes, telling them about this, telling that it
goes away, and in a heartbeat, the things that you're
being fed have been lost. And then for about a
day and a half, the algorithm says who are you?
Speaker 4 (12:24):
Wow, and you have to type in who you are?
Speaker 3 (12:27):
You have to type in I want to see this,
I want to see It's the same thing when we
all started, before the algorm got it. So it's so
funny to see my sons who were getting this sort
of like ideas of what it was to be a man,
these things that they were supposed to watch, videos that
were a little bit more violent, a little bit more this,
a little bit more of that. And then I reset it.
And then all of a sudden, you saw on one
(12:50):
of my he wants to be he wants to be
the cello and now the street is full of like
cello stuff. And I was like, was it full of
it before? And he said no, And I was like, yeah,
because your algorithm took you so far away from who
you are that until you reseted it, you forgot that
that was a passion of yours, that was a love
there wasn't something that you were seeing because your algorithms
(13:10):
feeding everything else. And I tell them watch that, Yeah,
watch what you're being fed and it glides with who you.
Speaker 4 (13:16):
Want to be, and so that's good.
Speaker 3 (13:18):
So I just it's it's something that I try to
get my young boys, straight.
Speaker 4 (13:23):
Men or people to do. You set that algorithm if
you want to be better in life.
Speaker 2 (13:27):
That's a good point. I like that very very much.
Speaker 1 (13:30):
Yeah, neither of my children is on it the social media,
thank god so far. But even for my own algorithms,
like mine is mostly full of cat and dog videos
and elephants, which is great, but sometimes it's like the
algorithm just takes over and then sometimes it'll just be
like weird things on there, and you're just.
Speaker 4 (13:48):
Like, weird things.
Speaker 3 (13:49):
Yeah, you're like where yep, yep, Yeah, it's testing, it's
testing you.
Speaker 4 (13:53):
Yeah, it's a similar yeah.
Speaker 1 (13:55):
Like so, I mean it's not horrible stuff, but you know,
it's just random, right, I'm like, wait, are they just
trying to sell me stuff?
Speaker 4 (14:01):
Now?
Speaker 2 (14:01):
I don't know what's happening, but I like to talking
cat videos. It's good.
Speaker 1 (14:05):
All right, let's talk about the show for a minute.
How like when did you find the show.
Speaker 4 (14:11):
Sex and the City.
Speaker 3 (14:12):
Yeah, Oh my gosh, I found this show when I
was still in high school.
Speaker 2 (14:18):
Oh great, that's great.
Speaker 4 (14:19):
Yes, I was very early on. Like I said, I'm
a little gay boy.
Speaker 3 (14:22):
I'm clamoring fantastic, a powerful strong woman for them, an
ensemble girl, Sign me up.
Speaker 4 (14:27):
I'm done.
Speaker 2 (14:28):
Excellent, excellent. That's why do we exist? Yes? What you
all to find us?
Speaker 3 (14:33):
Yes?
Speaker 2 (14:33):
Indeed, yes, indeed, And.
Speaker 4 (14:35):
Even to this day, I still watch all the episodes.
Speaker 3 (14:37):
But when they were when they asked me to rewatch
this episode, I said, I don't need to rewatch it.
Speaker 2 (14:41):
Wow, I was so impressed.
Speaker 4 (14:43):
It's so I was like, I need to rewatch this.
Are you kidding me?
Speaker 3 (14:45):
That's just when she said the title, I already knew.
That's when when you were in there, you didn't want
to go and get you don't want to go into
the locker room. That's also the newspaper, right, you saw
the newspaper big getting mad.
Speaker 4 (14:59):
Yes, I'm like, I'm like, I'm a gay man. Test me.
I could go through that things.
Speaker 1 (15:13):
This is the joy of doing this podcast, because I
had never rewatched these episodes myself since we made them. Right,
so back in the day, they would send us a
VHS of like a rough cut before it aired on HBO,
and we would rush home and put it in the VHR.
You know what, what do you call it? I can't
beat whatever? Yeah, letters, and we would watch it. But
(15:34):
it might not have every scene, or it might have
like a graphic that's not done or whatever. But you know,
we were so excited to see it. But then I
didn't watch it because I was too busy. We were
working in I was learning my lines or whatever.
Speaker 2 (15:43):
Right, so rewatching it.
Speaker 1 (15:45):
Sometimes I don't remember stuff at all, you know, and
then sometimes I really really do, or I might remember
what's happening, you know, off camera that day or whatever.
Speaker 2 (15:54):
But a lot of it.
Speaker 1 (15:55):
I'm just so incredibly impressed with our writers, Like our
writing is just so great rate.
Speaker 3 (16:01):
I think that your show's one the show that has
stanned the test of time where you see these women
and even though the generation that it was displaying is different,
I still, especially for me being in a daytime talk show,
I see the women going through the same exact thing,
the same fears, the same ideas, the same thoughts, the
(16:23):
same conversations about maybe someone who's more sexual versus someone
who's more traditional and the divide it and so it
was ahead of its time in a beautiful way.
Speaker 2 (16:32):
So congratulation, thank you, We're so lucky.
Speaker 1 (16:35):
But it's also so fun to hear people who like yourself,
like literally know more about the show than I do.
Like it's so amazing, and it really impresses me so deeply,
you know, in terms of just like the incredible luck
to be part of something like that that lives on
for people Like for me, I was like attack of
the five foot ten Women. Okay, I know that's probably Natasha,
(16:57):
because I know who the five foot.
Speaker 2 (16:59):
Ten woman is.
Speaker 1 (17:00):
Literally all I remembered about this way, But but when
I start rewatching it, of course more things come back
to me, like like, this is the incredible episode where
Lynn Cohen comes on as Miranda's house housekeeper mag Dad.
Speaker 2 (17:15):
She's so brilliant.
Speaker 4 (17:17):
And her build.
Speaker 1 (17:20):
Oh my god, Virgin maryifying I had forgotten about that.
And and Magdalen Cohen stayed on into the movies, you know,
we had her for a very long time, and she
very sadly passed away not not too long ago. But
she was a great actress, a great, great actress, and
(17:41):
I just remember that the way that their relationship, Miranda
and Magda's relationship developed, because it starts out in this
very kind of uncomfortable way, and that Miranda's bought herself
this apartment. You know, she's doing well in her job
and she gets a housekeeper and it's a very big deal.
And Carrie's like, you have a housekeeper, you know, and
and then like she's arranging tea and Miranda's like, well,
(18:01):
I like coffee.
Speaker 2 (18:02):
And then you know, like one thing leads to another.
She's like, where's my hair dryer?
Speaker 1 (18:06):
If i'd my hair dryer, and then she she says,
I'm going to reorganize this drawer, and Mariana's like no,
and then she reaches she opens the bedside table and
there it is, and you know, she's so mortifying, so mortifying.
Speaker 2 (18:18):
And then the next time Miranda reaches in that drawer,
there's the Virgin Mary.
Speaker 1 (18:23):
And she has to stand up for herself and go
to Magna and say like, who is this lady in
my drawer?
Speaker 2 (18:29):
Which She's like such a crazy scene, and Mage's like,
that's the Virgin Mary. And then she says.
Speaker 1 (18:36):
You know something like she basically just has to stand up.
She says, I already have a mother and I don't
need another one. And I'm a single woman in New
York City and I do have a man that I like,
but also I have sex and I'm not gonna apologize
for it.
Speaker 2 (18:49):
And it's just so great.
Speaker 1 (18:50):
It's so great and like kind of interesting that it
needs to be done and that I feel like you
still kind of have to stand up for yourself, you
know in that way.
Speaker 4 (19:02):
Yes, yes, when we're on Queer.
Speaker 3 (19:04):
One of the main things that a lot of the
women that we help, that we you know, that will
support and their transformation, a lot of them are feelings
in their lives they have they don't know how to
find that voice to stand up for themselves. And that's
a big piece of like why we always especially they
come in they're like, well, I still have dreams, but
yet I don't know if I can say them everyone
(19:26):
I have to do for everyone else, but I don't
feel like I can stand up and say I need
time for me. And I think what that episode does
and why it's still and important today is it tells women.
It tells everyone that if you have something that is
important to you that is, whether it's a sex toy
or just your freedom to be who you are. You
have to stand up for It's true.
Speaker 2 (19:46):
It's true.
Speaker 1 (19:47):
Interesting because it was It's definitely a through line of
the show, and it's interesting to see the different.
Speaker 2 (19:52):
Ways that it shows up. Right.
Speaker 1 (19:54):
So, like Miranda, she's having this kind of very basic
situation where this woman has come into her house, she
feels judged. And then for Charlotte because they're going to
the which I do remember. This was directed by Pam Thomas,
who is a great director. Shoot. It's written by Cindy Shupac,
who has relatively newly joined the show. We first had
Darren Starr, then we had Michael Patrick King, then we
(20:15):
got Jenny Bakes and Cindy is our fourth writer that
we've hired full time.
Speaker 2 (20:18):
So now we've got two.
Speaker 1 (20:19):
Women, two men, and it's you know, we're firing on
all cylinders in this season three. This is when things
are really like clicking together, right, and you're really seeing
kind of the overall themes really really like cement themselves.
Speaker 2 (20:34):
In a way. Yes, and so Charlotte and.
Speaker 1 (20:37):
I remember this because I remember having a lot of anxiety.
That's what I remember about this episode is like I
didn't want to be wrapped up in a towel. I
feel really bad about my thighs. I still feel really
bad about my thighs. I am old now, and I
still feel really bad about my thighs.
Speaker 2 (20:51):
Like it is so.
Speaker 1 (20:53):
Ground into you as a young woman, you know, looking
at Vogue, looking at the six feet tall model, you
know it's twiggy figures. Still today you look at these
models like Paris Fashion, we just happened. They're tiny, tiny
things have not changed.
Speaker 4 (21:10):
Yeah, I mean they're.
Speaker 2 (21:11):
Supposed to have changed, but have they changed?
Speaker 4 (21:15):
They have any? Actually, I think we're regressing a lot
of ways. I mean, I don't know if you saw recently,
there was there's this pushback.
Speaker 3 (21:20):
On body positivity, and so it's it's gone, like it's
like there's no more, there's no more.
Speaker 4 (21:27):
Of accepting all body types.
Speaker 3 (21:28):
And it's just crazy that something that was just meant
to say, hey, we just love yourself, I love yourself
the way you are, has been returned to this idea
that no, it's wrong, it's wrong.
Speaker 2 (21:41):
We cannot let that stay. We can. I mean, I
have a fourteen year old daughter.
Speaker 1 (21:45):
And you know, I have to really really retrain myself
in terms of you know how I talk about food
and you know, because obviously I am still an actress, right,
but I talk about like healthy, you know. I try
to always focus on healthy, healthy, healthy, And like when
we did decide to go back to work and do
and just like that, I hired a trainer and it
was COVID still, so we were working out in the yard,
(22:07):
you know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (22:07):
Like I but in my youth, I would have been like,
I'm not thin enough to go back to work.
Speaker 3 (22:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:12):
Yeah, Now I just don't say that, you.
Speaker 1 (22:13):
Know, I've retrained my language or whatever, because I don't
want her like there's enough in the culture, you know,
everywhere you look right like, I want her to feel
powerful and strong and proud of her body. It's beautiful, beautiful,
but it's it's such an interesting thing that we have
to fight so hard for that, you know.
Speaker 4 (22:33):
It is it is, and I think a big part
of that I have to tell you.
Speaker 3 (22:36):
And this is where, like me, as a male, even
as a game man, I say that it's our responsibility
as well to step up.
Speaker 4 (22:41):
You know.
Speaker 3 (22:42):
When I when I see you know, the conversation that happened,
it's it's it's us to say this is not okay.
Speaker 4 (22:50):
It's for us to check other guys.
Speaker 3 (22:51):
And I'm always constantly telling my sons but as well
my friends. I'm like, yo, when you hear something like that,
you say something like, speak up, like don't let that slide.
You cannot let that slide. I think the more that
in the moment, in the moment, you can't decide, you
can't let one of your boys say something because you
think like, oh my gosh, this is fine, Like it's
(23:13):
just a joke. No, a joke for you is someone
else's self esteem being severely hurt. And for you that
joke it's a joke that you can laugh off and forget.
But for someone else that is now they're in their
living room or in their their bathroom every day, questioning
if they're enough, questioning if they look it's lodged in there.
Speaker 4 (23:32):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (23:33):
And I think it's that responsibility of if you know,
all I can do is speak.
Speaker 4 (23:36):
To other men.
Speaker 3 (23:36):
I mean I speak to everyone, But like I say,
you've got to speak up in a moment and say no, cut.
Speaker 2 (23:42):
That's not that's so good. It's so good.
Speaker 1 (23:44):
I mean, it's so interesting too write because like you know,
I'm from the generation that I'm from, and sometimes you're
you're just really hoping that things have changed. But you're right,
you can't ever like look away or just assume that
things are changing, because there's there's it's an ongoing struggle
all different ways.
Speaker 2 (24:01):
Yeah, big time.
Speaker 1 (24:04):
Okay, So the really big theme in this particular episode
is about as you brought up the newspaper, So I
had forgotten this totally. Where out brunch, you know, things
seem fine, Charlotte is like sadly looking at the wedding section,
and so we see she's she's looking and she's talking
about how like there's some twenty four year old who
(24:26):
previously had a job, as though of course now she
doesn't because she's married her stockbroker or whatever. Also still
so true, right, so interesting, And then of course she
turns the page and she sees that Big and Natasha
have gotten married. And I try to very badly hide
the newspaper under my elbow, and of course, you know,
(24:47):
Samantha's like, what is that, you know, and then her
face falls and you know, poor Carrie, and I had
totally forgotten the scene where I go back to Carrie's
apartment with her and Charlotte doesn't want to let her
be alone.
Speaker 2 (25:01):
I had forgotten that.
Speaker 1 (25:02):
But it's such a sweet, sweet scene and it's rare
that you see Charlotte comforting Carrie, you know, like usually
it's the other way around. Really nice, and I think
it was so smart of Charlotte, like this is an
area that she knows about, and she knows Carrie's going
to try to act like she's fine.
Speaker 4 (25:19):
Well.
Speaker 3 (25:19):
The funny part is that's the thing that I've always
loved about Charlotte's character is like, okay, even if you
go to the movie, that iconic thing when Big didn't
show up, and Charlotte's the one that's like, no, no,
She's always been that fierce protector of Carrie in love,
and it has been the most beautiful thing. She's always
been the one that's like, no, I understand love more
than any of these women, and I'm going to protect
(25:41):
your heart and encourage your heart, but make sure you're
not going to be alone in any of these moments.
That's a good I think that's what you saw. That's
what you see in that moment, She's like, no, I'm
going to be here for you.
Speaker 4 (25:50):
Let's read it.
Speaker 3 (25:51):
Let's read it together, and like, let's get through it
so you can have your cry and you're not going
to be alone, and then you're going to know that
love is still.
Speaker 4 (25:57):
Available for you. I think that's what Charlotte does. It's
so really great.
Speaker 2 (26:01):
Yeah, so true and very well put.
Speaker 3 (26:03):
But if you think about it, it's also like now Instagram,
Like imagine God day, you and Carrie's your character and
carried character would have been scrolling Instagram and saw the announcement.
Speaker 2 (26:16):
So true.
Speaker 3 (26:16):
This generation would never understand us opening up newspapers. No,
I know.
Speaker 1 (26:20):
I know, well every time we reach for like one
of those landlines or those old cell phones, it makes
me laugh so hard. But also I have such nostalgia
for it because things are changing so quickly now, like
just so quickly it's insane. But anyway, so then the
other really huge thing I just like to talk about
the big things first is I had also completely forgotten
(26:43):
that they go to try and close Miranda and Carrie
and they run into Natasha in the next dressing room.
Oh my god, I mean your worst nightmare really literally,
like I mean, I relate to this so much, like
you know, you think you think, like, okay, I've put
it over there. In that compartment, right, you know, and
(27:04):
I'm fine, I'm fine.
Speaker 2 (27:05):
I'm fine.
Speaker 1 (27:06):
And then like the literal woman walks out, you know,
and she's tall and beautiful and so cool. You know,
she's so composed, and Carrie's there.
Speaker 2 (27:16):
In her underwear trying to cover her soulf up.
Speaker 1 (27:19):
And later when she says, like, you know, she's like
she lists off the things like she's this, and she's beautiful,
and she's young, and she's tall, and I'm you know,
short and complicated in my hairs curly and like it's
just it's.
Speaker 2 (27:33):
So real to me.
Speaker 1 (27:35):
How Carrie, who we really think of as this very
powerful character, this powerful woman, is just so undone by
this situation, you know, by it not going the way
she thought, trying so hard for so long, you know,
to get Big to show his feelings and you know,
(27:56):
to try to like she tried so many things with them,
do you know what I mean? Like she's at the
door I saw the other day on Instagram or must
have been a TikTok where they have just different cuts
of her showing up at BIG's door and all the
different outfits like in her hair dominatrix outfit and her
French made, you know, the beret Like that's later, like
she just tries so.
Speaker 2 (28:17):
Hard, you know, it doesn't work.
Speaker 1 (28:19):
And then he marries this woman who is just the
opposite of her, which of course we know that that's
not going to work either, but she doesn't know that
at this point in time, right, Yeah, And it's just
so hard to feel, you know, good about yourself and
complete when this kind of thing has happened, even though
you know you should well.
Speaker 3 (28:36):
But I know, but it's because our culture always makes
us want to compare.
Speaker 4 (28:40):
When you said that scene, it it's so vivid of
like what she says.
Speaker 3 (28:44):
She's she's tall, she's beautiful, she's straight hair, I'm curly
hair with a sex columnists, you know, or something whatever.
Speaker 4 (28:52):
And it's and you know, one of my.
Speaker 3 (28:54):
Things that I've always say to people, it's a quote
that's not mine, but it's comparison to the thief of joy.
And I tell you that all the time time, it's
you steal your own joy. And what we saw in
that episode is her steal her own joy and still
and and forget how beautiful it is.
Speaker 4 (29:09):
And I always try to think to myself, why do
we do that?
Speaker 3 (29:13):
And what I love about this episode is it shines
the light on like we can't do that because as
we know, that young woman becomes the most accomplished adult
woman in the world.
Speaker 4 (29:23):
She becomes the.
Speaker 3 (29:24):
Writer, she becomes powerful, she becomes selfish, assured. But she
needed that lesson, and I think people forget instead of comparing,
we need to say that this was a complete lesson.
Speaker 4 (29:35):
That we needed for that moment.
Speaker 3 (29:37):
And I think the more you can shift that, yeah,
you can ship that mindset, the better off you are.
Speaker 2 (29:41):
I think that's great.
Speaker 1 (29:42):
I mean, I also think that we wouldn't have had
to show if she could do that exactly. We needed
all of them to be going through so much stuff,
so much stuff. Samantha's storyline over here is like the SPA.
(30:10):
Oh my god, the massuse. I had also forgotten about.
Speaker 4 (30:14):
I got fired. I totally my mind.
Speaker 2 (30:17):
I know, I know, I had totally forgotten that.
Speaker 1 (30:23):
And I literally have never ever in my life heard
of women getting happy endings at a massage place.
Speaker 4 (30:30):
Have you? No, I haven't. I think I.
Speaker 2 (30:36):
Guess that it seems like it would be weird with
the stranger.
Speaker 4 (30:40):
I don't know, I don't know.
Speaker 3 (30:41):
I think that maybe there could be a couple of
women if they were open to it, Like nothing I'd recommend,
but I think, like, why not.
Speaker 2 (30:50):
I mean that's true, Like I.
Speaker 4 (30:52):
Mean I do the establishment, maybe.
Speaker 1 (30:54):
Yes, in the class establishment. I mean I do feel
like massage. I haven't gotten one.
Speaker 2 (30:58):
In forever because I'm too busy with and whatever.
Speaker 1 (31:00):
But like it is such a like a wonderful treat,
you know, just to have, like and you don't need
to know the person. It's just comforting to just have
someone in your body, which is.
Speaker 3 (31:14):
Right.
Speaker 1 (31:14):
But the thing that also I had totally forgotten about
how Carrie and Samantha then go to that event that
Natasha is doing, you know, that charity event, but then
Natasha's not even there. Carrie buys these shoes and she
has tea with me and I said, she says, do
you want to see my shoes?
Speaker 2 (31:30):
And I was like, oh, you mean.
Speaker 1 (31:31):
The shoes you can't afford, which is foreshadowing her whole
shoe debt, you know, and then wanting the money from
me many seasons later. Like it's also interesting, like how
connected our writers were in terms of these little moments
that then build up over time. But then so Samantha
and Carrie go off to the to the event, you know,
(31:52):
looking fantastic.
Speaker 2 (31:53):
Then of course Natasha's not there, and then I had
totally forgotten that.
Speaker 1 (31:57):
They run into the woman at the bah who had
told Samantha that that particular messeuse went down on her,
and there are three women there, and the woman says,
that's the one who got him fired.
Speaker 2 (32:09):
And they're like, oh what, you got him fired? And
then this one woman says, well, who's gonna me now.
Speaker 4 (32:17):
What?
Speaker 1 (32:18):
And I'm like, oh my god, what kind of drama
was going on with this guy?
Speaker 2 (32:23):
I had forgotten all of that.
Speaker 1 (32:25):
I mean, it was quite something, but I mean almost
I would have to go back to Cindy and ask
her what this was based on, because usually all of
our storylines had to be based on something that had
happened to.
Speaker 2 (32:34):
The writers or their friends.
Speaker 1 (32:36):
It could be once removed like it wasn't the actors.
Everyone thought these were our stories. There were never our
stories that got because that would be very hard to
play your own story, right. Yes, yes, but it was
always had to be like based in a real story.
Speaker 3 (32:49):
So that means there are women out there that are
getting their happy endits I know.
Speaker 4 (32:54):
I mean I don't know aware.
Speaker 2 (32:55):
But yeah, I guess good for them.
Speaker 1 (32:57):
I mean, it's so bizarre to think about it. But
it's perfect for Samantha of course, because she really wanted
this and then she doesn't get it and she's really sad.
And then for me, I mean, I feel like, I mean,
I don't know. Of course, my whole storyline could absolutely
be based on me, because I hate my legs. You know,
they knew I hate my legs. I was always worried about,
you know, what I was wearing or whatever. And I
(33:19):
remember that this director of Pam Thomas, she had come
from the commercial world, and she always had a really
good visual eye. So I remember when I'm running through
the spa and it kind of has like comedy music,
you know, and I'm like trying to like little by
little ice. I hide behind this like tower of towels
and I let my towel down to my waist or whatever,
and then I run, I scurry like a little mouse
(33:41):
into the spa and then I take my towel down
and I'm all nervous, and then this woman goes I
would kill for your breasts, and I'm like, okay, like
you know who, this worked out like I hadn't known
about that.
Speaker 2 (33:56):
You know, which I had forgotten that whole thing.
Speaker 1 (33:58):
And I mean it's it's only like the comedic, you know,
you there was like there there'd be like an A, B, C.
D storyline for all four of us. And you know,
that's just how it is when you have for strong
leads or however you wanted to find it. And mine
is definitely the D. But I still love it, like
it has so much resonance that like you're worried about
one thing, you forget about what you have that other
(34:21):
people would want.
Speaker 3 (34:22):
You know what I'm saying, Yes, of course that's what
we're talking about earlier with the comparison, like to see
your character be validated later on about something that they
were confused about.
Speaker 4 (34:32):
I think it was the most beautiful part to see
me too right.
Speaker 1 (34:34):
Like she was sure would never think like, oh yeah,
I do have good press like you. She's like, oh wow,
this is an outcome I didn't foresee happening.
Speaker 2 (34:44):
I dig it, I dig it like it's nice.
Speaker 1 (34:46):
It's nice to see to like even just the little
moments of growth you know, along the way, because we.
Speaker 4 (34:52):
All know hbos where they were all still doing like
full bush in the locker room.
Speaker 3 (34:57):
I mean there was a.
Speaker 2 (34:58):
Lot of naked lady. I was shocked. I don't remember that.
Speaker 3 (35:04):
I was like, whoa do they pep you and say
when you walk on set there's gonna be forty million
naked ladies there?
Speaker 4 (35:11):
Like how did Like I mean they must have.
Speaker 1 (35:14):
They must have because we just a is back before
the intimacy coordinators, right, but we would still I mean, gosh,
you know, this is a good question because now what
you would need to do, Like there'd be so many
precautions taken, right, Like you know how you have video
village on a set.
Speaker 2 (35:29):
Right, Like, yeah, video village would have.
Speaker 1 (35:32):
Been like everyone would have been sent away and to
make sure there weren't like lookie loose, you know at
the village and all that to make those women feel
safe and protected. And this is a long time ago,
so who knows what happened then, And I didn't even
remember that it happened, right, So I'm not gonna remember this.
But I do think we would have like a clothes set,
you know, so let's say, like the larger crew wouldn't
(35:56):
be standing there, you know, like the lighting guys and
the grip you know what I mean, like all of
those people would go.
Speaker 2 (36:02):
But those ladies seemed really relaxed.
Speaker 1 (36:05):
I mean, I'm sure that they had been hired like
with the knowledge of, you know, what they were going
to do, you know what I mean. But I hadn't
remembered that there were that many naked ladies.
Speaker 2 (36:14):
There were a lot. There were a lot of naked ladies.
There were a lot. I mean it was kind of cool,
you know, because it was like relaxed. They were very relaxed.
Speaker 1 (36:24):
I mean, it's funny enough to look back because some
of these things I don't remember, and I'm like impressed
that we did it.
Speaker 3 (36:31):
Yeah, ahead of its time. That's why it's a cultural phenomenon.
Speaker 4 (36:35):
It's true.
Speaker 2 (36:36):
It's so nice.
Speaker 1 (36:36):
It's so nice that it still holds up and you
still don't don't see these things.
Speaker 2 (36:42):
Oh yeah, there's another funny little trivia thing.
Speaker 1 (36:45):
When they do go to this this writing luncheon that
we talk about, Carrie says she's checking in and they
have a weird moment where her name might not be
on there, and Samantha and she were talking and they
they say, oh, there's Gloria Steine across the room. Now
we never see Glorious Steinem in this particular scene. But
later on Gloria comes on our show and then just
(37:07):
like that, and all of us had been huge Glorious
Steinem fans, our moms were all you know, had Miss
magazine on the table when we were growing up.
Speaker 3 (37:14):
There was a big one where she reclaimed her power
when she found out that she spelled their wrong.
Speaker 4 (37:21):
Oh my god, that.
Speaker 2 (37:26):
I had forgotten that as well. I'd forgotten that as well.
So that is the scene after So.
Speaker 1 (37:31):
She goes to this lunch and thinking that she's going
to look fabulous and present herself beautifully, and then Natasha
isn't even there, which is kind of a disappointment. So
she goes home and the voice of her kind of
connects it all and Natasha, even though she didn't make
it to the event, sends out handwritten thank you notes,
which is kind of impressive, I think, But then when
(37:52):
she goes to read it, she realizes that Natasha has
spelled their wrongly for the sentence and for a writer,
of course, that's like hugely important. And she immediately calls
Miranda on her clunky old phone and says, I believe
She says it's.
Speaker 2 (38:12):
A good thing. She got married. The woman is an
idiot woo burn my god.
Speaker 1 (38:19):
But it is kind of that kind of definitely like
self claiming amongst ourselves, like you know what, we're we're smarter,
we're better, we can do these things.
Speaker 2 (38:31):
We're out here in the world.
Speaker 1 (38:33):
You know, we're not gonna get married, and like fall
back on that, you know, a greed.
Speaker 2 (38:39):
Wait, and then there's something.
Speaker 1 (38:41):
Oh oh, I didn't realize that the reference in the
title is to the nineteen fifty eight film Attack of
the Fifty Foot Woman. Oh ye, well, that kind of
makes sense then, because that's what she seems like to carry,
you know what I mean, And it does. My notes
here do tell me that the New York Times wedding
announcements are still a thing, which is funny as if
you're like coming from one of those families where it
(39:02):
was important, you can still do.
Speaker 2 (39:05):
The as well as the Instagram, you know what I mean?
Speaker 3 (39:08):
Right, So I want to get married and put that
in there, not because I really want it in there,
just because I want to have a moment where an
axe opens it up and season getting married.
Speaker 1 (39:17):
I mean, that's real, that's real, that's real, that's real.
Speaker 4 (39:22):
I do it.
Speaker 2 (39:23):
I mean, listen, you could do it if you wanted.
You know what I'm saying, Yeah, do what you want.
Speaker 4 (39:31):
And it's just also interesting not to do what your writers.
Speaker 3 (39:34):
Did really well, and why just to keep praising you all,
because it really is.
Speaker 4 (39:39):
I'm glad to give your flowers.
Speaker 3 (39:41):
Is those type of scenes, like we see Natasha is
insecure as well. She doesn't want to come, she doesn't
want to confront this anymore. This is not about like
because if I'm on the board.
Speaker 4 (39:51):
Of something, I'm to come. But it just shows that
we all have our own securities.
Speaker 3 (39:55):
We're all on our own head, and even the most
perfect amound among us, we're all making mistakes.
Speaker 4 (40:00):
And so the best lesson is just live your life
for you and love your life how it is.
Speaker 3 (40:04):
And I that's why when they said this was the episode,
I thought to myself, Oh, I know it.
Speaker 4 (40:09):
I know this episode because the rest.
Speaker 1 (40:12):
I'm so impressed I remember this episode at all.
Speaker 4 (40:17):
I'm super pair.
Speaker 2 (40:30):
I have a question for you. Yes, are you a Charlotte?
Speaker 3 (40:35):
So I believe that you have to find out from
other people.
Speaker 4 (40:38):
So before we got on this, the entire my entire.
Speaker 3 (40:41):
Coramo show staff was upstairs and a lot of them
have worked also worked with me on Queer Eye for
the last ten seasons. And I said, I need you
all to tell me who I am. And the general
consensus from everyone is that I'm a Charlotte.
Speaker 4 (40:56):
I'm a Charlotte. They all said it.
Speaker 2 (40:58):
That's so nice.
Speaker 3 (41:01):
I think the only part that got me because I'm
not as like prudish, you know what I mean. I'm
still like a gay man. I'm older, so like my
my hoey days are gone and then behind me.
Speaker 2 (41:11):
But you know, it was kind of a prude.
Speaker 1 (41:17):
But if you actually watch she actually you know, there
was a pretty high body count, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 4 (41:23):
Pretty high.
Speaker 3 (41:23):
Yes, you had our fun, yes, but yeah, they all said, No,
you're the romantic, You're the kind one.
Speaker 4 (41:29):
You're always like telling people to giving them an advice
and telling them to slow down and be good. And
so apparently I'm the Charlotte. I didn't know, and they
would have asked me. I thought they were going to
say I was like Miranda, but I guess I'm not.
I guess I'm not.
Speaker 1 (41:44):
You know, maybe you're a man of Miranda inside your
own head.
Speaker 4 (41:49):
In my head, I'm Miranda, right.
Speaker 2 (41:51):
I love it. I love it.
Speaker 1 (41:52):
I haven't had anyone yet go and take a poll,
So I really appreciate that research.
Speaker 3 (42:00):
Very nice, very because you know what, this is my thing.
When everybody talks about Second City, they all want to
claim who they are.
Speaker 2 (42:06):
Got it?
Speaker 4 (42:07):
No, no, you got it? And when they claim who
they are, I'm like, no, you're not that person.
Speaker 1 (42:11):
I know. I mean sometimes I do think like who
you are in your own mind. Yeah, it's not very
different than like how friends you or the world sees
your or whatever.
Speaker 4 (42:20):
You're pretty exceptional and amazing. Sweet, thank you.
Speaker 2 (42:25):
I'm so throng you came on the podcast. What a joy.
Speaker 4 (42:29):
Anytime anything for you.
Speaker 2 (42:30):
You're amazing. I would love to come on your show.
Speaker 4 (42:33):
You're great anytime.
Speaker 3 (42:34):
Yes listen, have a great day, and thank you so
much and good luck with everything you too.
Speaker 2 (42:41):
Thank you so much.
Speaker 4 (42:42):
By love
Host
Kristin Davis
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