August 20, 2025 • 39 mins
What does it really mean to live the hero’s journey? Director Jon Erwin—the filmmaker behind Jesus Revolution, I Can Only Imagine, and Amazon’s new epic series House of David—joins Arroyo Grande to share how his own life mirrors the timeless story of David and Goliath. From his early days as a teenage cameraman to building one of today’s most influential faith-driven film studios, Jon opens up about purpose, creativity, and the cost of destiny.
In this wide-ranging conversation, Erwin explains how the story of King David inspired his latest project House of Davidon Amazon Prime, why the hero’s journey resonates so deeply in modern culture—from Star Wars to Lord of the Rings—and what it means to pursue a calling beyond your comfort zone. He reflects on lessons of faith, failure, and resilience, and shares how authentic storytelling can thrive in Hollywood when it connects directly with audiences.
Whether you’re chasing a dream, searching for meaning, or simply love epic storytelling, this episode will encourage you to step into your own hero’s journey.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
All of us want to live the hero's journey, but
how do you do that? The hero's journey is really
derived from the story of David and Goliath. Director John
Irwin has created an epic Amazon series, The House of David.
He'll tell us how he discovered the hero's journey in
his own life and how you can too on this
Arroyo Grande. Come on, I'm rating an arroyo. Welcome to
(00:32):
Arroyo Grande. By the way, go subscribe to the show
right now on YouTube or wherever you get your podcasts.
Like the episode and turn those notifications on. We've got
some special shows coming and I don't want you to
miss those.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
Let's go to the culture counter.
Speaker 1 (00:47):
If you've spent any time on Instagram or TikTok, you've
probably seen these sorority rush videos. The Wall Street Journal
reports that these videos have become a global domon great
The world now thinks our college girls spend their days
wearing mini skirts, bumping and grinding on the front lawn
(01:07):
of their sorority houses to move over.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
Susan B.
Speaker 1 (01:10):
Anthony, Can I ask a question, Are you auditioning to
work at Hooters or a gentleman's club?
Speaker 2 (01:16):
Why?
Speaker 1 (01:16):
Exactly are you doing these raunchy dances on the front lawn.
Rush week used to be a time when girls visited
various sororities for interviews. They had time to bond with others,
people who might become lifelong friends. They had brunches and teas,
wore nice gowns and yeah looks and polish were always
a part of it. But they didn't spend their time
(01:38):
mimicking Cardi b and recording it. Why have these women
focused on accomplishment decided that twerking and push up bras
are the path to success. You don't need a diploma
to do that kind of work. And why would a
smart girl want to be a part of a group
that prize is getting down more than growing up?
Speaker 2 (01:59):
Now. Look, I'm all for pretty girls dancing around on the.
Speaker 1 (02:02):
Lawn, have at it, But I'm also a dad and
if that were my daughter, and if this what she
has to do to get into a Greek house, she
can find a different papeyon. In twenty twenty two, Kylon
Darnell became the breakout star of the Bama Rush. She
started posting her Journey of Rushing at the University of Alabama.
(02:26):
It went super viral millions of followers. This year, she
decided to take some time off of social media to
preserve her mental health. She helped launch Rush Talk, which
captured the drama of the bid day and the money
and the time that these girls invest in dressing I
mean Gucci and Armani and getting themselves ready for rushing.
(02:50):
These sororities, We're talking tens of thousands of dollars. Some
even bring in their own consultants. Well, now, Kylin's sister,
Izzy Darnell, who is a sophomore at Alabama, after initially
saying she was rushing, has decided she isn't no, I
don't need it.
Speaker 2 (03:09):
And genuinely, a sorority has a lot of rules about
social media in the way that you can post and
talk to people, and.
Speaker 1 (03:17):
It's like we have to shake close relationship.
Speaker 2 (03:20):
I don't want to do that. I don't want to vanish,
you know what I mean. I don't want to have
to get stuff approved that I want to post every day.
I'm saying that is not for me, and it does
not have to be for everybody.
Speaker 1 (03:32):
I Isy Darnell maybe the smartest sorority girl of them all.
She looks the part but she's decided not to conform
to the expectations and rules of a group of girls
who seem more intent on showing off and shaking it
than helping others and making it. Why don't these sororities
show their pledges doing charitable works or helping underprivileged kids.
(03:54):
Wouldn't that show more character and demonstrate a greater commitment
to your sorority than running around like someone who's working
the late shift of the VIP room.
Speaker 2 (04:04):
It's nice to see that even some.
Speaker 1 (04:06):
Of those who popularize this whole rushing craze are now
rushing toward common sense. Call me when the pilot dance
craze is over. Every few months there's a new pilot
playing fred Astare. I'm very happy you're so flexible, sir,
But can you get to the airport?
Speaker 2 (04:25):
Look at this guy with all the crew delays.
Speaker 1 (04:34):
Why is he spending time taping dance routines in his
hotel room.
Speaker 2 (04:38):
Go to the airport.
Speaker 1 (04:39):
We're waiting for you on the tarmac and he's redoing
his PoTA beat. And look at these pilots on the tarmac.
I mean, the stiff movement. It's like COVID's back the
coordinated dance move is more turbulence than we need. And
how about this guy, This is sixth am at the
(05:01):
Dallas Airport. The concourse is not your dance hole, cheetah.
I mean people are trying to pass and he's doing
flips and leg extensions, doing his whole routine. Here's the
bottom line. Have a great time, dance your heart out,
but the public should not be forced to participate or
watch you twinkling your toes, go audition for a dance
(05:22):
show or hit a club. But the tarmac, the concourse
should not be and it isn't your showplace. Okay, now
to our deep dive. John Irwin is the director and
producer responsible for films like I Can Only Imagine, Jesus
Revolution and American Underdog. His latest project is House of
David and epicrytelling of King David's life. It's been topping
(05:46):
the viewing charts at Amazon Prime and I talked to
him about the series and how he found the hero's
journey in his own life. Here's John Irwin tell me
how being a cameraman in Birmingham, I lived at Bingham, Alabama.
Speaker 2 (06:02):
I know it well and I also know the red
wave obsession.
Speaker 1 (06:05):
Will Auburn, the Auburn Alabama thing, which I'm not getting
into roll tide.
Speaker 2 (06:10):
I know you're you're a boy, true and true. How
did that?
Speaker 1 (06:13):
Your father was also a broadcaster. But tell me about
how being homeschooled. Yeah, and a cameraman for sports events
trained you for this.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
Well.
Speaker 3 (06:22):
The reason I say rollside is because when I was
fifteen years old at the University of Alabama, which I
lived about forty five minutes away from, a cameraman got
sick about three hours before the kickoff to a game,
and I was apprenticing for a cameraman in my church
carriers Tripod and he called me and he said, get
(06:42):
over here right now. Don't tell anybody you've never done
this before. But I told him I knew a guy.
They're desperate, get over here right now. And that was
my way into Filmington, and I had the time of
my life. I was a homeschool kid and I had
never even seen a camera that big.
Speaker 2 (06:58):
I could zoom into a quarter of the moon. So
I'm just zooming the camera in and out of the mood.
I don't know what they were thinking of in.
Speaker 3 (07:03):
The truck and I and I legitimately had the time
of my life and knew that I had sort of
met my my career obsession. And and you know, I
had the great privilege of a year later, my dad
bought me a camera with money he didn't quite have.
Speaker 2 (07:17):
We went to Israel with.
Speaker 3 (07:20):
A camera I had no idea how to use to
do a little walk and talk documentary, and these stories
just came to life in a whole new way. It
was my first time to really travel internationally. And when
you're when you're in the States, you don't realize that,
you know, the America is an experiment, and it's relatively
young on the on the global stage. And and so
when you go to a place like Jerusalem, right, you
(07:41):
just feel the energy of thousands of years of story
and uh and I felt that. And I went to
King David's tomb and uh. The obsession with what would
become House of David started right there. But what I
had was the ability And what I would recommend to
anyone is is uh. You know, Malcolm Gladwell calls it
a ten thousand hour rule of just the time it
(08:02):
takes to hone your craft and celebrating that time of
learning and and uh and and learning to do.
Speaker 2 (08:11):
What you do.
Speaker 3 (08:12):
And I was, I just had the privilege of starting
that journey very very early. And uh and I'm grateful.
Speaker 2 (08:17):
And what was your father's influence. I mean, he was
a broadcaster, you know, it was a broadcaster.
Speaker 3 (08:20):
He was at a radio host it and then a
two time state senator in Alabama. But he was a
fifty thousand watt station called WDJC.
Speaker 2 (08:27):
He was in talk radio.
Speaker 3 (08:28):
So before I was ten years old, I would I
was sitting behind a mixer at his radio station helping
and uh and and he's you know what I love
about my dad, first and foremost is he's a He's a.
Speaker 2 (08:42):
Just a dreamer.
Speaker 3 (08:42):
And he said when he bought me that camera, he said,
dream bold, dream big, dream the impossible. And sometimes you know,
you just have to you have to have the audacity
to believe in what's possible. And and and I learned
that from him, and I love him and and he's
he's our biggest fan and and uh and in the
beginning of my journey and.
Speaker 1 (09:00):
Then and then you worked for a time with Alex
Kendrick courageous, So I did.
Speaker 3 (09:05):
I we were my brother and I were music video
directors at the time.
Speaker 2 (09:09):
And we were waiting in Nashville, and you're doing a
bunch of them. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (09:13):
I started with my w Smith and Amy Grant and
uh and but it was a it was a career
at that point. And I went to direct second unit
on a movie for Alex Kendrick Stephen and Alex, who
are wonderful guys, uh called courageous. I went into help
them with a camera they wanted to use, called the
Red One, and then also to direct their action sequences.
They were making movies primarily with church volunteers. It was
(09:36):
a real Cinderella storia. Well, they wanted to do a
police drama with action sequences evolving cars. You should never
combine this ever with church volunteers.
Speaker 2 (09:44):
People will die.
Speaker 3 (09:45):
Not be real bummer of a Sunday and so and
so I went in with a smaller team of professionals
to do the stunt work and action sequences in that movie.
Speaker 2 (09:53):
And Alex asked me, he.
Speaker 3 (09:55):
Said, right off the bat, as Southern Baptist as he is,
he said, you know, wats your purpose and the purpose
of your work? And I could not answer the question,
couldn't stop thinking about the question. So that was really
a moment where my my career fused with a life's.
Speaker 2 (10:08):
Calling, and how did you answer it?
Speaker 3 (10:11):
He started, I mean, yeah, it's a great question of like,
I'm an entertainer first and foremost, that's my job. But
the idea to tell stories that that that could be
life changing to other people and to jump off the
cliff of instead of being like I joked around at
the time, I was like the Han Solo of Christianity,
like if you have a ship or if you have
(10:32):
if you have money, I've got a ship off liue somewhere.
Speaker 2 (10:34):
The rest is your problem.
Speaker 3 (10:36):
And that led to to making independent films and raising
money for them, very scary transition and uh and then uh,
you know, each film built on the last, and then
it was I can only imagine was the breakout?
Speaker 1 (10:47):
Yeah, and then and Jesus Revolution and on and on
and on. And you work with your brother Andrew. What
does Andrew bring to the game that is you lack?
Speaker 3 (10:56):
You know, it's a oh man, a lot, it's it's
it's a great question. And you know it started with
Andy and I as brothers, and then it's now grown
to this group of filmmakers that you know, John Gunn
who's here will direct us co directed this has written.
We co wrote five movies together, including Jesus Revolution and
(11:17):
obviously Dallas Jenkins with the chosen.
Speaker 2 (11:20):
Brit McCorkle, who co.
Speaker 3 (11:22):
Directed Jesus Revolution with me, is now co directing the
sequel that I can only imagine with my brother right now.
So it's become this group of filmmakers at this cool moment,
unprecedented moment in time in our industry. And Andy is
He's great with the human element, as is John Gunn.
He's great with actors, he's great with the emotion of
(11:43):
a scene. And I'm both a writer and then also
a very sort of technical filmmaker, and so I think
a lot of times, you know film as in its
nature is it's a symphony of art, and it's all
these art forms bundled together. So it really is collaborative
at its heart, and when you embrace that, you can
do so much more than you could ever do alone.
And so that collaboration started with Andy and I and
(12:05):
has now grown out to this group of filmmakers. It's
a really cool moment.
Speaker 2 (12:08):
You've got all these Irwin adoptees.
Speaker 3 (12:09):
Yeah, right, explode. I don't know whose name would be
on the on the Mask. But we've all done great
work independently, but when we do it together, there's just
a magic to what we can achieve. And so if
you think about you know, right now I'm busy making
House of David. My brother's working on the sequel to Too.
I can only imagine Dallas Jenkins is going into the
(12:31):
big Sea, the big season six of the Chosen, and.
Speaker 2 (12:35):
It's just amazing to see all that's happening.
Speaker 3 (12:37):
It really feels like an unprecedented moment in an industry.
Speaker 1 (12:40):
Tell me about David. David is obviously an archetype. Yeah,
that's right for I know you're a big fan of
the hero Patoos, that's right. Yeah, in the Hero's Journey,
which you know he went off the rails here and there.
But of course the core idea, the ideal a good one.
Tell me how David is the archetype for that reliant
(13:01):
and the Chos.
Speaker 3 (13:02):
I feel like David is the origin of the origin
stories in the sense that I love I'm a sucker
for Lord of the Rings star Wars. One of George
Lucas's great influences when he made Star Wars was this
book here with a thousand faces by Joseph Campbell. The
concept of that book is that there's these mythic archetypes
that are common in a bunch of stories. I've thought
(13:24):
a lot about why do we need these stories, these
heroes journeys, these destiny stories.
Speaker 2 (13:28):
Why do it?
Speaker 3 (13:29):
And I think it's we're wired to need a savior,
like in our soul, we are wired for a savior.
And I think we're also wired to crave purpose and
meaning to life in a way that we have a
destiny and a role to play in something meaningful that's
(13:49):
bigger than we are.
Speaker 2 (13:50):
And I think that's why we're drawn to these stories.
Speaker 3 (13:52):
And so which George Lucas credits the success of Star
Wars to a lot of the archetypes in Star Wars
are those mythic art.
Speaker 2 (14:00):
Tapping into those And so if you watch House of.
Speaker 3 (14:02):
David, you know David himself, this is the one of
the original or one of the original hero's journeys boy
chosen to be king. And if you look at like
the Prophet Samuel played by the Great Stephen Lange, he's
very much in the gandolf.
Speaker 1 (14:15):
You know it was a chay and he's even got
the beard flowing white rocks and the routine and the
sword play, which I don't want to ruin for any
of you, but it's all there.
Speaker 2 (14:23):
It's all there.
Speaker 3 (14:24):
And so if you love these type of stories, I
think whether or not you you really know much of
the Bible or not, I think a lot of people
know the term David and Goliath as synonymous with the underdog,
but they don't know the story. And so I think
you'll find it very familiar.
Speaker 2 (14:39):
Even if you don't know anything about the story.
Speaker 1 (14:41):
That's kind of backstory that you didn't know the originstus
you've forgotten about or didn't never knew. Correct, tell me
what drew John Irwin to this David character. He's a
complex character character, you know, the boy David.
Speaker 2 (14:53):
It's an easy one to embrace and love. Yeah, King,
I think that's you know, Well, here's I find interesting
about it.
Speaker 3 (15:01):
There's a line where Stephen Lang says to Michael in
the series, who plays David. He says, you know, there's
great passions that rage in you, and this will be
your blessing and this will be your curse and basically
the greatest war will be within So David. I find
these personalities that can accomplish great things. They are equal
(15:25):
into the mistakes that they can make. You know, and
this is trapp and in a person. So I as
a filmmaker, I find that very interesting.
Speaker 2 (15:34):
Why is this David different?
Speaker 1 (15:36):
And why should people care about a king that lived
thousands of dollars.
Speaker 2 (15:44):
Of years ago.
Speaker 3 (15:44):
We know what's interesting is they say, first of all,
the stories are relatable and incredible.
Speaker 2 (15:50):
There's a reason I tell the story.
Speaker 3 (15:52):
I remember when Amazon executives first read the scripts, They're like,
these scripts are really good.
Speaker 2 (15:56):
I'm like, it's based off a best seller. You should
check it out.
Speaker 3 (15:59):
And so there's a reason that these stories echo through
time and the idea the timelessness of this person's were
one of my favorite bands for King Country. They just
did a cover of the U two song Psalm forty
year old song, three thousand year old lyrics, and it
just shows you how enduring this character. You know, one
(16:22):
of the most famous kings who ever lived. His one
square mile city Jerusalem has has defined much of human history.
We count time by events that happened in that region.
And I think that the story is just incredibly relatable
and epic in every way. And the thing I find
(16:42):
most about that I was probably drawn to is the
authenticity and honesty of the Psalms, Like history is written
by the victor.
Speaker 2 (16:48):
David was a king. We never had to know about
his mistakes.
Speaker 3 (16:52):
He could have cleansed history, never had to know that
Bathsheba was your Eye's wife. And the fact that this
king was writing these authentically honest human songs and saying
sing this to the people is unbelievable. And I think
it's his quest for the heart of God that I
(17:13):
find most interesting despite his flaws. I think the further
you go in life, you know, you just make mistakes
and you and I think so many of us identify
with the idea that either I'm unqualified to serve God
because I'm not good enough, or I'm disqualified because it's
something that I've done, Like we wrestle with those things.
Speaker 2 (17:31):
I know those are relatable to me, And I.
Speaker 3 (17:34):
Love telling the story of this person who made some
epic accomplishments and epic blunders, but found his way back
to God every time and kept singing through it all.
Speaker 2 (17:42):
What people don't realize I was in the theater before this.
Speaker 1 (17:45):
And when you play a role, when you're immersed in
a character that existed like this, you usually learn something
from them that you didn't expect, you didn't see at
first reading or even after an obsession. Is there anything
you learned about David after going through this? I mean,
I know you're still in it, You're interested in this world.
Speaker 3 (18:03):
I think the idea of his almost fearless honesty is
the reason why. I mean, only about fifteen percent of
the psalms are God is great and life is great.
The rest are I am struggling, you know, help me.
(18:25):
And the range of human emotions are represented in this
person's writings. And I think it's not until you dramatize
the events that you realize, Oh, he never had to
write any of this stuff, and the fact that he
did is a huge part of what makes him relatable
and great. And so it just reminds me of like
God can use it all, you know, Solomon who dedicated
(18:49):
I always see the book ends out the whole saga.
If I were to be able to tell the whole
saga of these two you know, kids basically teenagers crying
out to God, one obscure in the hills of bed
for him, the other on the Temple mount, you know,
doing what his father couldn't do and beckoning God to
earth at the temple, and and you know, Solomon was
best Shiva's son, son of David's worst mistake, and yet
(19:11):
God can use it all and redeem it all. And
David kept singing through it all. And that is a
lesson for me.
Speaker 2 (19:18):
You know, what's the difference between doing and I know,
there's a big difference between doing a feature, oh man.
Speaker 1 (19:25):
And doing this television full immersion, and I imagine you
want to go through the whole saga.
Speaker 2 (19:29):
I mean, it is the house of David, not the
child again.
Speaker 3 (19:31):
I I the power of our unified voice as believers
is what affords us this moment to do an Amazon
Prime Global original and have creative control. And so my
hope is that the series does well enough that we
can tell the whole story, because which would be a
multi season epic that we've already mapped out. But I
think that television is my first first foray into television.
Speaker 2 (19:54):
You know, I do future films.
Speaker 3 (19:56):
It is I would say five times the work, but
probably ten times is fulfilling. Like it's just the amount
of story that you can tell is so unbelievable. It's
also tons of work. But I think that's the reason
why there's not been a definitive David movie. It's too
his life is an odyssey. It's too much story to
be crammed into a movie. This is the treatment the
(20:17):
story deserves, I think, which is a is a you know,
hours and hours of exploration.
Speaker 2 (20:23):
I mean, this is big and very intimate, I mean full.
That's why I wanted that. I'm glad you said that.
Speaker 3 (20:28):
I that's why I wanted to partner with John Gunn
primarily on the project, because he's so human in his storytelling,
and he strived for.
Speaker 2 (20:36):
That level of authenticity.
Speaker 3 (20:37):
I love scope and scale, so I sort of wanted
that fusion and the balance.
Speaker 2 (20:42):
And it is.
Speaker 3 (20:42):
It's it's epic, authentic, intimate stories and uh and and
and it's everything I love about a great TV series
or you know, it's really a love letter to like
the original Fellowship of the Ring movie and the way
they made it and they went out on the land
and did it for real and uh or braveheart, I think,
and so like an older way of making it.
Speaker 1 (21:02):
I'm glad you brought I was going to ask you
this later. What's the contribution of Mel Gibson in this
faith space, opening this up and kind of setting the benchmark.
Speaker 2 (21:13):
You know, I did the first interview on the set
of The Passion. I remember seeing it.
Speaker 3 (21:20):
With three thousand pastors in Florida and being just blown away.
I think mel is one of the great masters of
the craft of film masters. Any interaction I've had with him,
he will talk your ear off about the craft of film,
and I find it to be immediately applicable and deeply helpful.
(21:41):
And I find him to be one of the most candid,
authentic creators I've ever had the privilege of interacting with.
And I think The Passion is one of the great
works of art in the in the history of our business,
and the leap he took for that movie was an
extraordinary act of faith. And what do they say, if
you stand on the shoulders, if you see clearly you
(22:02):
stand on the shoulders of giants. One of these I
love about film history overall is it's like layer upon
layer upon layer of filmmaker reacting to another filmmaker's work,
or given an opportunity because of the success of another filmmaker.
And I just I love his movies, and I love
it the most when he partners with Randa Wallace, which
(22:22):
is another wonderful friend, wonderful writer and director.
Speaker 2 (22:27):
And I.
Speaker 3 (22:30):
Am in their wake and in their shadow and grateful
to be doing any of this and would not be
here without the success.
Speaker 1 (22:38):
Why did it take Hollywood all this time? That was
twenty years ago the past? Yeah, he opened up this
enormous audience. I mean, hundreds of millions of dollars that
movie made. Why hasn't Holly Why did Holly Wood not
jump on the bandwagon and just say, look at this audience.
Speaker 2 (22:53):
It's taken all this time and all the Wonder Project.
Speaker 3 (22:55):
Yeah, well that's the goal and dream of the Wonder
Project is an independent studio that could endure the test
of time to solve that problem. I think the core
problem is we call it the gap, and it's a
gap between the craft and of filmmaking and the authenticity
of the audience the content. So you typically, except for
(23:17):
Mel Gibson, and I think he made the passion, then
he wanted to go and do other things. You know,
thank god he didn't want to do David because I
wouldn't be here. But you know, I think that that
that other than Mel, you get this thing of you
either get things that are authentic to the audience but
poorly made, or you get things that are very well
made but inauthentic and in some ways of betrayal to
(23:38):
the audience exact. And so there's been this gap that
we've been trying to close where you, on the one hand,
can make the content excellent but also authentic. And that
has been a problem really that there just has not
been enough Christians inside the industry that are that are
trying to discipline themselves and master the craft film as
(23:59):
much as they can.
Speaker 2 (23:59):
And that's a lifelong quest. That's something that art achieve.
Art is built over time.
Speaker 3 (24:04):
But I would say that, you know, for me, David
is sort of like the Mount Everest of storytelling, and
it took all the films that I've made to try
to work up to a level of craftsmanship that I
think the story deserved. It's not that it's perfect, but
I think I think that that that I should have
done this story five years ago or ten years ago.
Speaker 2 (24:25):
It took that much time. I said, exhausted you more
than your thought.
Speaker 3 (24:28):
Oh yeah, I would say that, but it's a great exhaustion.
I mean that there's nothing like you know, being exhausted
on the field battle and a worthy cause, you know,
And so it's a meaningful exhaustion which I find less
than I would rather be thoroughly exhausted in something that
I believe in than sort of tired in something mediocre.
Speaker 2 (24:46):
There was a great quote I.
Speaker 1 (24:47):
Came across from you that I just loved it where
you mentioned Walt Disney. Yeah, and I bet you can
come up with a quote, but it was I'm not
trying to entertain the critics.
Speaker 2 (24:56):
I'd rather take take my chances with the people.
Speaker 3 (24:58):
I mean, first, I love that was the king of
quotes and U and one of the great entertainers in
the history of entertainment obviously, and one of the great
inspirations shapers. And he was not only a great creator,
he was a great entrepreneur. And so much of the
the inventions of technology that drive our industry came from
the Walt Disney Company back to like the multiplaye camera
(25:21):
that I work's made for him. But I love his
perspective on the audience and and some of the you know,
he had the way of of of distilling things down
to a line, and oftentimes I just want to make sure,
like am I serving.
Speaker 2 (25:33):
And entertaining the right group of people.
Speaker 3 (25:36):
Of course, I love it if there's a good critic
review or when you know American Underdog was certified fresh,
and I'm grateful, and but but I you know, I've
got four A plus cinema scores and that's that's from
the audience, which I love. And at the end of
the day, what we say is it is not about us.
It's about the people in the seats and the experience
they're having with the content, and that's it, and we
(25:59):
are there. It is such an incredible thing to me
to think that people are going to enter a theater
or gather around a television set and they're going to
watch something that I made instead of something that James
Cameron or George Lukisman or whoever.
Speaker 2 (26:11):
And so you try to honor that.
Speaker 3 (26:12):
And at the very first goal is to relentlessly entertain
the audience.
Speaker 1 (26:18):
In multiple languages across the world, across the whole world.
Speaker 2 (26:21):
And so that's the quest. And so as great as it.
Speaker 3 (26:25):
Is to be celebrated in any other form or to
any other group by like critics, my my relationship is
with the audience first and foremost.
Speaker 1 (26:32):
Tell me about Michael Iskander, who is your David is incredible? Now.
Speaker 2 (26:36):
I saw him in Kimberly a Kimbo on Broad Believe
I had a son in New York. Yeah, and when
I saw the picture and I said, where do I
know this kid from that looked? How did you find him?
Speaker 1 (26:46):
What was the here's a better question, what's the quality
in him that you needed in your David?
Speaker 3 (26:51):
You know, it really comes down to one word, and
that word is conviction conction.
Speaker 2 (26:56):
But okay, also that, but I needed.
Speaker 3 (26:59):
I needed depth of soul, I needed a gravitas, and
I needed a conviction in his eyes. And I had
the privilege of directing Jonathan Roumy, who obviously plased Christ
for Dallas and the Chosen and just understanding the depth
of soul and conviction that Jonathan had that really was
the what I was looking for. But then also you
think about the practicality of the role. It's like a
bullseye with and a bulls eye. I had to have
a musician, I had to have an athlete. I had
(27:21):
to have somebody that that looked, that was from the
region that had that favored He's an Egyptian, right, He's
an Egyptian, And so I felt proud of that. By
the way, yesterday I got he and Jonathan Rumy together
for a one on one interview, and I'm like, they
look they.
Speaker 2 (27:37):
Look like family. I mean fourteen generations, but they look
like family.
Speaker 3 (27:41):
And so so we looked at thousands of people for
House of David.
Speaker 2 (27:45):
We looked hundreds of people for the role of David itself.
Speaker 3 (27:48):
And his audition came in and you know those moments
that you just know, you just know, like the ten
seconds into his audition, I'm like, having looked at hundreds
of people, that's him.
Speaker 2 (28:00):
So I got on I got on a flight a
red eye that.
Speaker 3 (28:02):
Night, and I said, I want to have breakfast with him,
and I want you know, we were thinking about thirty
minutes to talk about the role. We talked about life
and just cameras and all kinds of for three hours.
Speaker 2 (28:12):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (28:12):
And I said, I'm not supposed to tell you this
because you never say this because it gives agents leverage.
Speaker 2 (28:19):
This is your role.
Speaker 3 (28:20):
I really do believe that I've got this is also
an Amazon Global original. I've got a lot of people
to onboard. So what I need you to do is
just do the work at every level. Do the work
and at every level he has outworked and out learned,
whether it was the accent or whether it was the
slinging stone or the liar or the music that he
(28:43):
sings live in the show.
Speaker 2 (28:45):
In Hebrew, which was his idea. You know, I could not.
Speaker 3 (28:50):
I feel like a coach that is so proud of
an athlete that is becoming a superstar right in front
of you. So I remember the third day of filming.
I think he came over and he's like, except for
kim Kimbo. He's like, uh, that was good, right, was
that what you wanted? I'm like, yeah, he's like because
he's like, I know, you know this man, this is
my first job, and I just want to do a
good job. So he has this great sensibility about it,
(29:10):
but also a depth of soul that is far beyond
his years.
Speaker 2 (29:13):
What do you want people to wrestle with?
Speaker 1 (29:15):
I think most filmmakers want audiences to wrestle with something
in the story they're telling.
Speaker 2 (29:21):
Yeah, this is such an epic. What do you want
audiences to wrestle?
Speaker 3 (29:24):
I mean, I want people to wrestle and with the
idea that we have a destiny beyond the life we're living. Typically,
like there is something, there's a whisper that that that
that is, that is that is scary, that is far
beyond your comfort zone.
Speaker 2 (29:42):
That that's the great adventure. I like that.
Speaker 3 (29:44):
You know, obviously we're working with Amazon, the show and
Jeff Bezos and you can live a life. But I
agree with this quote. You can live a life of
you can live a life of ease, or you can
live a life of service or adventure, which you can't
do both. And and so you know, the idea of
David stepping beyond his fear is stepping into his destiny
and all that came with that, which a big theme
of the.
Speaker 2 (30:03):
Show is the cost of destiny. There is a cost.
Do you feel you've done that here? But this project, I.
Speaker 3 (30:10):
Feel like, you know, I was talking to John Gunn
about this. We jumped into television, man, This wasn't like
we didn't do like network television or Hallmark or we
just jumped in when it's deep in historical epic.
Speaker 2 (30:22):
Why not.
Speaker 3 (30:22):
I do think that there's a great joy into jumping
into something that is far beyond your comfort zone or
far beyond what you know how to do. And it's
like jumping out of an airplane with the components of
a parachute, you know, and just assembling them on the
way down.
Speaker 2 (30:36):
I'll figure this out.
Speaker 3 (30:36):
But I'm telling you I learned way back working with
Alex Kendrick on the movie Courageous, Like, there's no greater
feeling vocationally than when you unify your craft or with
with a life's calling and a life's purpose and suddenly
you're doing something that you're trying to get better at,
but you're doing it for a first purpose beyond yourself.
That's a magical thing, but it's often a scary thing.
(30:58):
And I think the most meaningful moments in my career
have been when I've jumped off the ledge of my
comfort zone.
Speaker 2 (31:04):
Until we endeavor.
Speaker 3 (31:06):
Yeah, and uh, And I think that that is the
That is the hero's journey. And I think we all
have a hero's journey to live and uh and I
think our fear keeps.
Speaker 2 (31:15):
Us from living that hero's journey. So I hope that
people watch the series.
Speaker 3 (31:18):
I hope people watch the series and read the psalms
because they're so relatable. But then I hope they asked
the question, Okay, what am I supposed to do?
Speaker 2 (31:26):
Like? What? What?
Speaker 3 (31:27):
What is that inner voice telling me to go. Do
that might be scary and be on my comfort zone.
Speaker 1 (31:32):
Okay, but the's are real quick questions because I know
you got to go and you've done it, and you've
got many more people.
Speaker 2 (31:36):
A great conversation. Roy I ask everybody these are royal.
It's my royal grande questions.
Speaker 3 (31:41):
Okay, this is the what was the the gym?
Speaker 2 (31:45):
What's the inn? James?
Speaker 1 (31:50):
I won't ask you that the person you most admire,
who is the person I most admire?
Speaker 3 (31:58):
You know, I would say that I I admire many
many people like I love a great biography, and I
love to learn from the stories of others.
Speaker 2 (32:07):
So of course, you.
Speaker 3 (32:08):
Know, I think right now, in the moment that I'm in,
I would say David. Probably six months from now, when
I'm directing this movie, I would say George Washington.
Speaker 2 (32:15):
But Washington, Yeah, But.
Speaker 3 (32:19):
There's something about about gleaning from other people's stories and
uh and and a lot of that is whatever story
I'm presently telling, or maybe a book I've read, but
but I'm fully immersed in the story of David right now.
Speaker 2 (32:33):
What is your best feature?
Speaker 3 (32:35):
My best feature? You know, probably you know I'll tell
you this. This is the under celebrated virtue. Okay, curiosity.
I think if you can combine curiosity with pain tolerance,
there is not much that you can't achieve if you
can just be constantly learning. And so I think I
(32:55):
live I live my life curious the level of curiosity
and learn all the time. And I think when that
is met with a level of determination, there is there
are a few things that you can't achieve.
Speaker 2 (33:05):
What's your worst feature?
Speaker 3 (33:07):
Oh, my gosh, my worst feature is probably just the
uncontrollable personality of the artist.
Speaker 2 (33:12):
Like if you're like, I'm a I'm an ADHD nightmare.
Speaker 3 (33:16):
But my my biggest battles are within not my biggest
battles are with myself. Sometimes I feel like I'm I'm
I'm the greatest villain to my own story, you know.
Speaker 2 (33:26):
And uh, And.
Speaker 3 (33:26):
That's I think one of the reasons why I like
telling stories, whether it's David or whether it's Jesus Revolution.
I like these stories of imperfect people that are very
flawed that God still uses because I feel.
Speaker 2 (33:37):
Like I fit right in. We all do. Yeah, what
is the thing you know that authors don't know?
Speaker 3 (33:46):
I know, boy, that's a great question and a loaded question.
Speaker 2 (33:50):
It is I know.
Speaker 3 (33:52):
That it you know what, I think The thing that
I can most that would be most helpful to people
listening is I know that it just takes longer than
you think. In the sense that I wanted to Ice first.
The spark of curiosity for David happened when I was
sixteen years old. The first script I wrote for a
movie on David was in twenty twelve. And success is
(34:12):
long obedience in the same direction. If you genuinely feel
like your call to do something, just keep going. It's
going to take a lot longer than you think, and
then you're going to get to this breakthrough moment. And
I think there's not a lot of failures in terms
of stories. There's just a lot of incomplete stories. In
the sense of there's not a lot of bad films.
(34:33):
There's just unfinished films. Sometimes we say, and I think
sometimes people give up and you never know when that
breakthrough moment where the fog clears was right around the corner.
Speaker 2 (34:42):
And you stop too early, and you stop too early.
Speaker 3 (34:45):
So if I can give any advice to anybody is
if you really feel like you're supposed to do something,
as long as you're learning, as long as you're curious,
don't give up.
Speaker 2 (34:52):
You just never know when that moment is right around
the corner. Final question, what happens when this is over? Oh? Man,
I take a nap. I think is.
Speaker 3 (35:03):
But I'll tell you what I really dream of, and
this is the dream of the Wonder project. Is you
think about the most profound outcome that could come from
all this. Somebody should make a documentary sometime of the
twenty five year mayhem that has led to Fate film
and the reemergence of this type content and.
Speaker 2 (35:21):
The yahoos that God has used to do it.
Speaker 3 (35:25):
But my hope the outcome that I would be most
like this made the journey worth it is If you
watch The House of David Traylor, the first title card
that comes up is the MGM logo LEO the lionis
is one hundred years of entertainment. My hope is that
a lot of these successes for movies and television can
coalesce into an institution that can last one hundred years
(35:46):
and really allow us to tell these stories on a
global scale long after I'm not able. So I joke
around that I'd love to see a studio last one
hundred years. I'd love to get it halfway. If Clint
Easwood can do it, I can do it, you know.
But the idea is that would be a transcendent outcome
that my hope and prayer and strong belief is that
(36:08):
there's now this group of creatives and we're willing each
other on to success. We're competing in the best sense
of the word, just trying to one up each other.
Like you know, I remember seeing every version of Dallas
Jenkins scene of Walking on the Water. I was shooting
the Jesus Revolution move with the Keys his DP, so
we were looking at every version on a Keith's phone
and I was called Dallason but that was a I
(36:30):
feel that that's the best version of the Walking on
the Water that I've ever seen. It was so well done,
and that just makes me want to like one up
and with the Dam.
Speaker 2 (36:37):
And Goliath, I'm like, wait till you see David Goliath.
But that's happening.
Speaker 3 (36:41):
And my hope is that the work that we're doing
as a group of friends and partners and collaborators right
now will sort of break the dam, as it were,
to allow creatives to come behind us and have their
voices heard, and that would be the most inspiring goal.
Speaker 2 (36:56):
And to have any role in.
Speaker 3 (36:58):
Something that's emerging in front of you like is a privilege.
And to bleed on the bleeding edge, to be in
the arena at all is a great privilege.
Speaker 2 (37:07):
Well, John, I was not lost on me.
Speaker 1 (37:09):
Leo the Lion opened the movie and David confronts Leo
in the movie.
Speaker 2 (37:13):
But I'm not what happened. Isn't that amazing?
Speaker 3 (37:16):
I just think that was actually one of the things
that that you know, you know, Samuel says to David
in the show. Uh, you know, God doesn't look on
the outward appearance. He looks in the heart. That's what's
in the Bible. And then we add, and you have
the heart of a lion, you know. And what a
lions do? They roar, he tells him. And uh, And
so the fact that the trailer opens with the lion energy,
(37:37):
it is a good omen.
Speaker 2 (37:38):
I think it's great, great interview. We have talked for hours.
Speaker 1 (37:43):
Okay, here's the whole House of David is on Amazon
Prime and it's worth watching with your family. But after
I spoke to John, I thought, why was David able
to whip Goliath so badly?
Speaker 2 (37:55):
Well, like every small person.
Speaker 1 (37:57):
Who takes on a big entity or a tiny hero
on a huge villain. He flipped the script on Goliath.
The philistine warrior thought he was fighting a conventional enemy
with swords and shields, a battle of strength, But David
brought a stone to the knife fight. His surprising ingenuity,
leaning into his own strength, gave him the victory. He
(38:20):
also had unflinching faith, a tested faith. At one point,
he says, the Lord has delivered me out of the
paw of the lion and out of the paw of
the bear. He will deliver me out of the hand
of this philistine. That determined faith, coupled with ingenuity made
him a hero and the thing John said about jumping
(38:42):
off the edge of your comfort zone.
Speaker 2 (38:44):
With faith, that really is the hero's journey.
Speaker 1 (38:49):
If you like our work, go to Raymondarroyo dot com
hit the donate button.
Speaker 2 (38:53):
We'd appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (38:54):
I hope you'll come back to a royal grande soon.
Why live a dry, narrow, constricted life. If you fill
it with good things, it can flow into a broad,
thriving Arroyo Grande.
Speaker 2 (39:05):
I'm Rayment Arroyo.
Speaker 1 (39:06):
Make sure you subscribe. Like the episode. Thanks for diving
in and we'll see you next time. Arroyo Grande is
produced in partnership with iHeart Podcasts and Divine Providence Studios,
and is available on YouTube, the iHeartRadio app, or wherever
you get your podcasts,
All of us want to live the hero's journey, but
how do you do that? The hero's journey is really
derived from the story of David and Goliath. Director John
Irwin has created an epic Amazon series, The House of David.
He'll tell us how he discovered the hero's journey in
his own life and how you can too on this
Arroyo Grande. Come on, I'm rating an arroyo. Welcome to
(00:32):
Arroyo Grande. By the way, go subscribe to the show
right now on YouTube or wherever you get your podcasts.
Like the episode and turn those notifications on. We've got
some special shows coming and I don't want you to
miss those.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
Let's go to the culture counter.
Speaker 1 (00:47):
If you've spent any time on Instagram or TikTok, you've
probably seen these sorority rush videos. The Wall Street Journal
reports that these videos have become a global domon great
The world now thinks our college girls spend their days
wearing mini skirts, bumping and grinding on the front lawn
(01:07):
of their sorority houses to move over.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
Susan B.
Speaker 1 (01:10):
Anthony, Can I ask a question, Are you auditioning to
work at Hooters or a gentleman's club?
Speaker 2 (01:16):
Why?
Speaker 1 (01:16):
Exactly are you doing these raunchy dances on the front lawn.
Rush week used to be a time when girls visited
various sororities for interviews. They had time to bond with others,
people who might become lifelong friends. They had brunches and teas,
wore nice gowns and yeah looks and polish were always
a part of it. But they didn't spend their time
(01:38):
mimicking Cardi b and recording it. Why have these women
focused on accomplishment decided that twerking and push up bras
are the path to success. You don't need a diploma
to do that kind of work. And why would a
smart girl want to be a part of a group
that prize is getting down more than growing up?
Speaker 2 (01:59):
Now. Look, I'm all for pretty girls dancing around on the.
Speaker 1 (02:02):
Lawn, have at it, But I'm also a dad and
if that were my daughter, and if this what she
has to do to get into a Greek house, she
can find a different papeyon. In twenty twenty two, Kylon
Darnell became the breakout star of the Bama Rush. She
started posting her Journey of Rushing at the University of Alabama.
(02:26):
It went super viral millions of followers. This year, she
decided to take some time off of social media to
preserve her mental health. She helped launch Rush Talk, which
captured the drama of the bid day and the money
and the time that these girls invest in dressing I
mean Gucci and Armani and getting themselves ready for rushing.
(02:50):
These sororities, We're talking tens of thousands of dollars. Some
even bring in their own consultants. Well, now, Kylin's sister,
Izzy Darnell, who is a sophomore at Alabama, after initially
saying she was rushing, has decided she isn't no, I
don't need it.
Speaker 2 (03:09):
And genuinely, a sorority has a lot of rules about
social media in the way that you can post and
talk to people, and.
Speaker 1 (03:17):
It's like we have to shake close relationship.
Speaker 2 (03:20):
I don't want to do that. I don't want to vanish,
you know what I mean. I don't want to have
to get stuff approved that I want to post every day.
I'm saying that is not for me, and it does
not have to be for everybody.
Speaker 1 (03:32):
I Isy Darnell maybe the smartest sorority girl of them all.
She looks the part but she's decided not to conform
to the expectations and rules of a group of girls
who seem more intent on showing off and shaking it
than helping others and making it. Why don't these sororities
show their pledges doing charitable works or helping underprivileged kids.
(03:54):
Wouldn't that show more character and demonstrate a greater commitment
to your sorority than running around like someone who's working
the late shift of the VIP room.
Speaker 2 (04:04):
It's nice to see that even some.
Speaker 1 (04:06):
Of those who popularize this whole rushing craze are now
rushing toward common sense. Call me when the pilot dance
craze is over. Every few months there's a new pilot
playing fred Astare. I'm very happy you're so flexible, sir,
But can you get to the airport?
Speaker 2 (04:25):
Look at this guy with all the crew delays.
Speaker 1 (04:34):
Why is he spending time taping dance routines in his
hotel room.
Speaker 2 (04:38):
Go to the airport.
Speaker 1 (04:39):
We're waiting for you on the tarmac and he's redoing
his PoTA beat. And look at these pilots on the tarmac.
I mean, the stiff movement. It's like COVID's back the
coordinated dance move is more turbulence than we need. And
how about this guy, This is sixth am at the
(05:01):
Dallas Airport. The concourse is not your dance hole, cheetah.
I mean people are trying to pass and he's doing
flips and leg extensions, doing his whole routine. Here's the
bottom line. Have a great time, dance your heart out,
but the public should not be forced to participate or
watch you twinkling your toes, go audition for a dance
(05:22):
show or hit a club. But the tarmac, the concourse
should not be and it isn't your showplace. Okay, now
to our deep dive. John Irwin is the director and
producer responsible for films like I Can Only Imagine, Jesus
Revolution and American Underdog. His latest project is House of
David and epicrytelling of King David's life. It's been topping
(05:46):
the viewing charts at Amazon Prime and I talked to
him about the series and how he found the hero's
journey in his own life. Here's John Irwin tell me
how being a cameraman in Birmingham, I lived at Bingham, Alabama.
Speaker 2 (06:02):
I know it well and I also know the red
wave obsession.
Speaker 1 (06:05):
Will Auburn, the Auburn Alabama thing, which I'm not getting
into roll tide.
Speaker 2 (06:10):
I know you're you're a boy, true and true. How
did that?
Speaker 1 (06:13):
Your father was also a broadcaster. But tell me about
how being homeschooled. Yeah, and a cameraman for sports events
trained you for this.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
Well.
Speaker 3 (06:22):
The reason I say rollside is because when I was
fifteen years old at the University of Alabama, which I
lived about forty five minutes away from, a cameraman got
sick about three hours before the kickoff to a game,
and I was apprenticing for a cameraman in my church
carriers Tripod and he called me and he said, get
(06:42):
over here right now. Don't tell anybody you've never done
this before. But I told him I knew a guy.
They're desperate, get over here right now. And that was
my way into Filmington, and I had the time of
my life. I was a homeschool kid and I had
never even seen a camera that big.
Speaker 2 (06:58):
I could zoom into a quarter of the moon. So
I'm just zooming the camera in and out of the mood.
I don't know what they were thinking of in.
Speaker 3 (07:03):
The truck and I and I legitimately had the time
of my life and knew that I had sort of
met my my career obsession. And and you know, I
had the great privilege of a year later, my dad
bought me a camera with money he didn't quite have.
Speaker 2 (07:17):
We went to Israel with.
Speaker 3 (07:20):
A camera I had no idea how to use to
do a little walk and talk documentary, and these stories
just came to life in a whole new way. It
was my first time to really travel internationally. And when
you're when you're in the States, you don't realize that,
you know, the America is an experiment, and it's relatively
young on the on the global stage. And and so
when you go to a place like Jerusalem, right, you
(07:41):
just feel the energy of thousands of years of story
and uh and I felt that. And I went to
King David's tomb and uh. The obsession with what would
become House of David started right there. But what I
had was the ability And what I would recommend to
anyone is is uh. You know, Malcolm Gladwell calls it
a ten thousand hour rule of just the time it
(08:02):
takes to hone your craft and celebrating that time of
learning and and uh and and learning to do.
Speaker 2 (08:11):
What you do.
Speaker 3 (08:12):
And I was, I just had the privilege of starting
that journey very very early. And uh and I'm grateful.
Speaker 2 (08:17):
And what was your father's influence. I mean, he was
a broadcaster, you know, it was a broadcaster.
Speaker 3 (08:20):
He was at a radio host it and then a
two time state senator in Alabama. But he was a
fifty thousand watt station called WDJC.
Speaker 2 (08:27):
He was in talk radio.
Speaker 3 (08:28):
So before I was ten years old, I would I
was sitting behind a mixer at his radio station helping
and uh and and he's you know what I love
about my dad, first and foremost is he's a He's a.
Speaker 2 (08:42):
Just a dreamer.
Speaker 3 (08:42):
And he said when he bought me that camera, he said,
dream bold, dream big, dream the impossible. And sometimes you know,
you just have to you have to have the audacity
to believe in what's possible. And and and I learned
that from him, and I love him and and he's
he's our biggest fan and and uh and in the
beginning of my journey and.
Speaker 1 (09:00):
Then and then you worked for a time with Alex
Kendrick courageous, So I did.
Speaker 3 (09:05):
I we were my brother and I were music video
directors at the time.
Speaker 2 (09:09):
And we were waiting in Nashville, and you're doing a
bunch of them. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (09:13):
I started with my w Smith and Amy Grant and
uh and but it was a it was a career
at that point. And I went to direct second unit
on a movie for Alex Kendrick Stephen and Alex, who
are wonderful guys, uh called courageous. I went into help
them with a camera they wanted to use, called the
Red One, and then also to direct their action sequences.
They were making movies primarily with church volunteers. It was
(09:36):
a real Cinderella storia. Well, they wanted to do a
police drama with action sequences evolving cars. You should never
combine this ever with church volunteers.
Speaker 2 (09:44):
People will die.
Speaker 3 (09:45):
Not be real bummer of a Sunday and so and
so I went in with a smaller team of professionals
to do the stunt work and action sequences in that movie.
Speaker 2 (09:53):
And Alex asked me, he.
Speaker 3 (09:55):
Said, right off the bat, as Southern Baptist as he is,
he said, you know, wats your purpose and the purpose
of your work? And I could not answer the question,
couldn't stop thinking about the question. So that was really
a moment where my my career fused with a life's.
Speaker 2 (10:08):
Calling, and how did you answer it?
Speaker 3 (10:11):
He started, I mean, yeah, it's a great question of like,
I'm an entertainer first and foremost, that's my job. But
the idea to tell stories that that that could be
life changing to other people and to jump off the
cliff of instead of being like I joked around at
the time, I was like the Han Solo of Christianity,
like if you have a ship or if you have
(10:32):
if you have money, I've got a ship off liue somewhere.
Speaker 2 (10:34):
The rest is your problem.
Speaker 3 (10:36):
And that led to to making independent films and raising
money for them, very scary transition and uh and then uh,
you know, each film built on the last, and then
it was I can only imagine was the breakout?
Speaker 1 (10:47):
Yeah, and then and Jesus Revolution and on and on
and on. And you work with your brother Andrew. What
does Andrew bring to the game that is you lack?
Speaker 3 (10:56):
You know, it's a oh man, a lot, it's it's
it's a great question. And you know it started with
Andy and I as brothers, and then it's now grown
to this group of filmmakers that you know, John Gunn
who's here will direct us co directed this has written.
We co wrote five movies together, including Jesus Revolution and
(11:17):
obviously Dallas Jenkins with the chosen.
Speaker 2 (11:20):
Brit McCorkle, who co.
Speaker 3 (11:22):
Directed Jesus Revolution with me, is now co directing the
sequel that I can only imagine with my brother right now.
So it's become this group of filmmakers at this cool moment,
unprecedented moment in time in our industry. And Andy is
He's great with the human element, as is John Gunn.
He's great with actors, he's great with the emotion of
(11:43):
a scene. And I'm both a writer and then also
a very sort of technical filmmaker, and so I think
a lot of times, you know film as in its
nature is it's a symphony of art, and it's all
these art forms bundled together. So it really is collaborative
at its heart, and when you embrace that, you can
do so much more than you could ever do alone.
And so that collaboration started with Andy and I and
(12:05):
has now grown out to this group of filmmakers. It's
a really cool moment.
Speaker 2 (12:08):
You've got all these Irwin adoptees.
Speaker 3 (12:09):
Yeah, right, explode. I don't know whose name would be
on the on the Mask. But we've all done great
work independently, but when we do it together, there's just
a magic to what we can achieve. And so if
you think about you know, right now I'm busy making
House of David. My brother's working on the sequel to Too.
I can only imagine Dallas Jenkins is going into the
(12:31):
big Sea, the big season six of the Chosen, and.
Speaker 2 (12:35):
It's just amazing to see all that's happening.
Speaker 3 (12:37):
It really feels like an unprecedented moment in an industry.
Speaker 1 (12:40):
Tell me about David. David is obviously an archetype. Yeah,
that's right for I know you're a big fan of
the hero Patoos, that's right. Yeah, in the Hero's Journey,
which you know he went off the rails here and there.
But of course the core idea, the ideal a good one.
Tell me how David is the archetype for that reliant
(13:01):
and the Chos.
Speaker 3 (13:02):
I feel like David is the origin of the origin
stories in the sense that I love I'm a sucker
for Lord of the Rings star Wars. One of George
Lucas's great influences when he made Star Wars was this
book here with a thousand faces by Joseph Campbell. The
concept of that book is that there's these mythic archetypes
that are common in a bunch of stories. I've thought
(13:24):
a lot about why do we need these stories, these
heroes journeys, these destiny stories.
Speaker 2 (13:28):
Why do it?
Speaker 3 (13:29):
And I think it's we're wired to need a savior,
like in our soul, we are wired for a savior.
And I think we're also wired to crave purpose and
meaning to life in a way that we have a
destiny and a role to play in something meaningful that's
(13:49):
bigger than we are.
Speaker 2 (13:50):
And I think that's why we're drawn to these stories.
Speaker 3 (13:52):
And so which George Lucas credits the success of Star
Wars to a lot of the archetypes in Star Wars
are those mythic art.
Speaker 2 (14:00):
Tapping into those And so if you watch House of.
Speaker 3 (14:02):
David, you know David himself, this is the one of
the original or one of the original hero's journeys boy
chosen to be king. And if you look at like
the Prophet Samuel played by the Great Stephen Lange, he's
very much in the gandolf.
Speaker 1 (14:15):
You know it was a chay and he's even got
the beard flowing white rocks and the routine and the
sword play, which I don't want to ruin for any
of you, but it's all there.
Speaker 2 (14:23):
It's all there.
Speaker 3 (14:24):
And so if you love these type of stories, I
think whether or not you you really know much of
the Bible or not, I think a lot of people
know the term David and Goliath as synonymous with the underdog,
but they don't know the story. And so I think
you'll find it very familiar.
Speaker 2 (14:39):
Even if you don't know anything about the story.
Speaker 1 (14:41):
That's kind of backstory that you didn't know the originstus
you've forgotten about or didn't never knew. Correct, tell me
what drew John Irwin to this David character. He's a
complex character character, you know, the boy David.
Speaker 2 (14:53):
It's an easy one to embrace and love. Yeah, King,
I think that's you know, Well, here's I find interesting
about it.
Speaker 3 (15:01):
There's a line where Stephen Lang says to Michael in
the series, who plays David. He says, you know, there's
great passions that rage in you, and this will be
your blessing and this will be your curse and basically
the greatest war will be within So David. I find
these personalities that can accomplish great things. They are equal
(15:25):
into the mistakes that they can make. You know, and
this is trapp and in a person. So I as
a filmmaker, I find that very interesting.
Speaker 2 (15:34):
Why is this David different?
Speaker 1 (15:36):
And why should people care about a king that lived
thousands of dollars.
Speaker 2 (15:44):
Of years ago.
Speaker 3 (15:44):
We know what's interesting is they say, first of all,
the stories are relatable and incredible.
Speaker 2 (15:50):
There's a reason I tell the story.
Speaker 3 (15:52):
I remember when Amazon executives first read the scripts, They're like,
these scripts are really good.
Speaker 2 (15:56):
I'm like, it's based off a best seller. You should
check it out.
Speaker 3 (15:59):
And so there's a reason that these stories echo through
time and the idea the timelessness of this person's were
one of my favorite bands for King Country. They just
did a cover of the U two song Psalm forty
year old song, three thousand year old lyrics, and it
just shows you how enduring this character. You know, one
(16:22):
of the most famous kings who ever lived. His one
square mile city Jerusalem has has defined much of human history.
We count time by events that happened in that region.
And I think that the story is just incredibly relatable
and epic in every way. And the thing I find
(16:42):
most about that I was probably drawn to is the
authenticity and honesty of the Psalms, Like history is written
by the victor.
Speaker 2 (16:48):
David was a king. We never had to know about
his mistakes.
Speaker 3 (16:52):
He could have cleansed history, never had to know that
Bathsheba was your Eye's wife. And the fact that this
king was writing these authentically honest human songs and saying
sing this to the people is unbelievable. And I think
it's his quest for the heart of God that I
(17:13):
find most interesting despite his flaws. I think the further
you go in life, you know, you just make mistakes
and you and I think so many of us identify
with the idea that either I'm unqualified to serve God
because I'm not good enough, or I'm disqualified because it's
something that I've done, Like we wrestle with those things.
Speaker 2 (17:31):
I know those are relatable to me, And I.
Speaker 3 (17:34):
Love telling the story of this person who made some
epic accomplishments and epic blunders, but found his way back
to God every time and kept singing through it all.
Speaker 2 (17:42):
What people don't realize I was in the theater before this.
Speaker 1 (17:45):
And when you play a role, when you're immersed in
a character that existed like this, you usually learn something
from them that you didn't expect, you didn't see at
first reading or even after an obsession. Is there anything
you learned about David after going through this? I mean,
I know you're still in it, You're interested in this world.
Speaker 3 (18:03):
I think the idea of his almost fearless honesty is
the reason why. I mean, only about fifteen percent of
the psalms are God is great and life is great.
The rest are I am struggling, you know, help me.
(18:25):
And the range of human emotions are represented in this
person's writings. And I think it's not until you dramatize
the events that you realize, Oh, he never had to
write any of this stuff, and the fact that he
did is a huge part of what makes him relatable
and great. And so it just reminds me of like
God can use it all, you know, Solomon who dedicated
(18:49):
I always see the book ends out the whole saga.
If I were to be able to tell the whole
saga of these two you know, kids basically teenagers crying
out to God, one obscure in the hills of bed
for him, the other on the Temple mount, you know,
doing what his father couldn't do and beckoning God to
earth at the temple, and and you know, Solomon was
best Shiva's son, son of David's worst mistake, and yet
(19:11):
God can use it all and redeem it all. And
David kept singing through it all. And that is a
lesson for me.
Speaker 2 (19:18):
You know, what's the difference between doing and I know,
there's a big difference between doing a feature, oh man.
Speaker 1 (19:25):
And doing this television full immersion, and I imagine you
want to go through the whole saga.
Speaker 2 (19:29):
I mean, it is the house of David, not the
child again.
Speaker 3 (19:31):
I I the power of our unified voice as believers
is what affords us this moment to do an Amazon
Prime Global original and have creative control. And so my
hope is that the series does well enough that we
can tell the whole story, because which would be a
multi season epic that we've already mapped out. But I
think that television is my first first foray into television.
Speaker 2 (19:54):
You know, I do future films.
Speaker 3 (19:56):
It is I would say five times the work, but
probably ten times is fulfilling. Like it's just the amount
of story that you can tell is so unbelievable. It's
also tons of work. But I think that's the reason
why there's not been a definitive David movie. It's too
his life is an odyssey. It's too much story to
be crammed into a movie. This is the treatment the
(20:17):
story deserves, I think, which is a is a you know,
hours and hours of exploration.
Speaker 2 (20:23):
I mean, this is big and very intimate, I mean full.
That's why I wanted that. I'm glad you said that.
Speaker 3 (20:28):
I that's why I wanted to partner with John Gunn
primarily on the project, because he's so human in his storytelling,
and he strived for.
Speaker 2 (20:36):
That level of authenticity.
Speaker 3 (20:37):
I love scope and scale, so I sort of wanted
that fusion and the balance.
Speaker 2 (20:42):
And it is.
Speaker 3 (20:42):
It's it's epic, authentic, intimate stories and uh and and
and it's everything I love about a great TV series
or you know, it's really a love letter to like
the original Fellowship of the Ring movie and the way
they made it and they went out on the land
and did it for real and uh or braveheart, I think,
and so like an older way of making it.
Speaker 1 (21:02):
I'm glad you brought I was going to ask you
this later. What's the contribution of Mel Gibson in this
faith space, opening this up and kind of setting the benchmark.
Speaker 2 (21:13):
You know, I did the first interview on the set
of The Passion. I remember seeing it.
Speaker 3 (21:20):
With three thousand pastors in Florida and being just blown away.
I think mel is one of the great masters of
the craft of film masters. Any interaction I've had with him,
he will talk your ear off about the craft of film,
and I find it to be immediately applicable and deeply helpful.
(21:41):
And I find him to be one of the most candid,
authentic creators I've ever had the privilege of interacting with.
And I think The Passion is one of the great
works of art in the in the history of our business,
and the leap he took for that movie was an
extraordinary act of faith. And what do they say, if
you stand on the shoulders, if you see clearly you
(22:02):
stand on the shoulders of giants. One of these I
love about film history overall is it's like layer upon
layer upon layer of filmmaker reacting to another filmmaker's work,
or given an opportunity because of the success of another filmmaker.
And I just I love his movies, and I love
it the most when he partners with Randa Wallace, which
(22:22):
is another wonderful friend, wonderful writer and director.
Speaker 2 (22:27):
And I.
Speaker 3 (22:30):
Am in their wake and in their shadow and grateful
to be doing any of this and would not be
here without the success.
Speaker 1 (22:38):
Why did it take Hollywood all this time? That was
twenty years ago the past? Yeah, he opened up this
enormous audience. I mean, hundreds of millions of dollars that
movie made. Why hasn't Holly Why did Holly Wood not
jump on the bandwagon and just say, look at this audience.
Speaker 2 (22:53):
It's taken all this time and all the Wonder Project.
Speaker 3 (22:55):
Yeah, well that's the goal and dream of the Wonder
Project is an independent studio that could endure the test
of time to solve that problem. I think the core
problem is we call it the gap, and it's a
gap between the craft and of filmmaking and the authenticity
of the audience the content. So you typically, except for
(23:17):
Mel Gibson, and I think he made the passion, then
he wanted to go and do other things. You know,
thank god he didn't want to do David because I
wouldn't be here. But you know, I think that that
that other than Mel, you get this thing of you
either get things that are authentic to the audience but
poorly made, or you get things that are very well
made but inauthentic and in some ways of betrayal to
(23:38):
the audience exact. And so there's been this gap that
we've been trying to close where you, on the one hand,
can make the content excellent but also authentic. And that
has been a problem really that there just has not
been enough Christians inside the industry that are that are
trying to discipline themselves and master the craft film as
(23:59):
much as they can.
Speaker 2 (23:59):
And that's a lifelong quest. That's something that art achieve.
Art is built over time.
Speaker 3 (24:04):
But I would say that, you know, for me, David
is sort of like the Mount Everest of storytelling, and
it took all the films that I've made to try
to work up to a level of craftsmanship that I
think the story deserved. It's not that it's perfect, but
I think I think that that that I should have
done this story five years ago or ten years ago.
Speaker 2 (24:25):
It took that much time. I said, exhausted you more
than your thought.
Speaker 3 (24:28):
Oh yeah, I would say that, but it's a great exhaustion.
I mean that there's nothing like you know, being exhausted
on the field battle and a worthy cause, you know,
And so it's a meaningful exhaustion which I find less
than I would rather be thoroughly exhausted in something that
I believe in than sort of tired in something mediocre.
Speaker 2 (24:46):
There was a great quote I.
Speaker 1 (24:47):
Came across from you that I just loved it where
you mentioned Walt Disney. Yeah, and I bet you can
come up with a quote, but it was I'm not
trying to entertain the critics.
Speaker 2 (24:56):
I'd rather take take my chances with the people.
Speaker 3 (24:58):
I mean, first, I love that was the king of
quotes and U and one of the great entertainers in
the history of entertainment obviously, and one of the great
inspirations shapers. And he was not only a great creator,
he was a great entrepreneur. And so much of the
the inventions of technology that drive our industry came from
the Walt Disney Company back to like the multiplaye camera
(25:21):
that I work's made for him. But I love his
perspective on the audience and and some of the you know,
he had the way of of of distilling things down
to a line, and oftentimes I just want to make sure,
like am I serving.
Speaker 2 (25:33):
And entertaining the right group of people.
Speaker 3 (25:36):
Of course, I love it if there's a good critic
review or when you know American Underdog was certified fresh,
and I'm grateful, and but but I you know, I've
got four A plus cinema scores and that's that's from
the audience, which I love. And at the end of
the day, what we say is it is not about us.
It's about the people in the seats and the experience
they're having with the content, and that's it, and we
(25:59):
are there. It is such an incredible thing to me
to think that people are going to enter a theater
or gather around a television set and they're going to
watch something that I made instead of something that James
Cameron or George Lukisman or whoever.
Speaker 2 (26:11):
And so you try to honor that.
Speaker 3 (26:12):
And at the very first goal is to relentlessly entertain
the audience.
Speaker 1 (26:18):
In multiple languages across the world, across the whole world.
Speaker 2 (26:21):
And so that's the quest. And so as great as it.
Speaker 3 (26:25):
Is to be celebrated in any other form or to
any other group by like critics, my my relationship is
with the audience first and foremost.
Speaker 1 (26:32):
Tell me about Michael Iskander, who is your David is incredible? Now.
Speaker 2 (26:36):
I saw him in Kimberly a Kimbo on Broad Believe
I had a son in New York. Yeah, and when
I saw the picture and I said, where do I
know this kid from that looked? How did you find him?
Speaker 1 (26:46):
What was the here's a better question, what's the quality
in him that you needed in your David?
Speaker 3 (26:51):
You know, it really comes down to one word, and
that word is conviction conction.
Speaker 2 (26:56):
But okay, also that, but I needed.
Speaker 3 (26:59):
I needed depth of soul, I needed a gravitas, and
I needed a conviction in his eyes. And I had
the privilege of directing Jonathan Roumy, who obviously plased Christ
for Dallas and the Chosen and just understanding the depth
of soul and conviction that Jonathan had that really was
the what I was looking for. But then also you
think about the practicality of the role. It's like a
bullseye with and a bulls eye. I had to have
a musician, I had to have an athlete. I had
(27:21):
to have somebody that that looked, that was from the
region that had that favored He's an Egyptian, right, He's
an Egyptian, And so I felt proud of that. By
the way, yesterday I got he and Jonathan Rumy together
for a one on one interview, and I'm like, they
look they.
Speaker 2 (27:37):
Look like family. I mean fourteen generations, but they look
like family.
Speaker 3 (27:41):
And so so we looked at thousands of people for
House of David.
Speaker 2 (27:45):
We looked hundreds of people for the role of David itself.
Speaker 3 (27:48):
And his audition came in and you know those moments
that you just know, you just know, like the ten
seconds into his audition, I'm like, having looked at hundreds
of people, that's him.
Speaker 2 (28:00):
So I got on I got on a flight a
red eye that.
Speaker 3 (28:02):
Night, and I said, I want to have breakfast with him,
and I want you know, we were thinking about thirty
minutes to talk about the role. We talked about life
and just cameras and all kinds of for three hours.
Speaker 2 (28:12):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (28:12):
And I said, I'm not supposed to tell you this
because you never say this because it gives agents leverage.
Speaker 2 (28:19):
This is your role.
Speaker 3 (28:20):
I really do believe that I've got this is also
an Amazon Global original. I've got a lot of people
to onboard. So what I need you to do is
just do the work at every level. Do the work
and at every level he has outworked and out learned,
whether it was the accent or whether it was the
slinging stone or the liar or the music that he
(28:43):
sings live in the show.
Speaker 2 (28:45):
In Hebrew, which was his idea. You know, I could not.
Speaker 3 (28:50):
I feel like a coach that is so proud of
an athlete that is becoming a superstar right in front
of you. So I remember the third day of filming.
I think he came over and he's like, except for
kim Kimbo. He's like, uh, that was good, right, was
that what you wanted? I'm like, yeah, he's like because
he's like, I know, you know this man, this is
my first job, and I just want to do a
good job. So he has this great sensibility about it,
(29:10):
but also a depth of soul that is far beyond
his years.
Speaker 2 (29:13):
What do you want people to wrestle with?
Speaker 1 (29:15):
I think most filmmakers want audiences to wrestle with something
in the story they're telling.
Speaker 2 (29:21):
Yeah, this is such an epic. What do you want
audiences to wrestle?
Speaker 3 (29:24):
I mean, I want people to wrestle and with the
idea that we have a destiny beyond the life we're living. Typically,
like there is something, there's a whisper that that that
that is, that is that is scary, that is far
beyond your comfort zone.
Speaker 2 (29:42):
That that's the great adventure. I like that.
Speaker 3 (29:44):
You know, obviously we're working with Amazon, the show and
Jeff Bezos and you can live a life. But I
agree with this quote. You can live a life of
you can live a life of ease, or you can
live a life of service or adventure, which you can't
do both. And and so you know, the idea of
David stepping beyond his fear is stepping into his destiny
and all that came with that, which a big theme
of the.
Speaker 2 (30:03):
Show is the cost of destiny. There is a cost.
Do you feel you've done that here? But this project, I.
Speaker 3 (30:10):
Feel like, you know, I was talking to John Gunn
about this. We jumped into television, man, This wasn't like
we didn't do like network television or Hallmark or we
just jumped in when it's deep in historical epic.
Speaker 2 (30:22):
Why not.
Speaker 3 (30:22):
I do think that there's a great joy into jumping
into something that is far beyond your comfort zone or
far beyond what you know how to do. And it's
like jumping out of an airplane with the components of
a parachute, you know, and just assembling them on the
way down.
Speaker 2 (30:36):
I'll figure this out.
Speaker 3 (30:36):
But I'm telling you I learned way back working with
Alex Kendrick on the movie Courageous, Like, there's no greater
feeling vocationally than when you unify your craft or with
with a life's calling and a life's purpose and suddenly
you're doing something that you're trying to get better at,
but you're doing it for a first purpose beyond yourself.
That's a magical thing, but it's often a scary thing.
(30:58):
And I think the most meaningful moments in my career
have been when I've jumped off the ledge of my
comfort zone.
Speaker 2 (31:04):
Until we endeavor.
Speaker 3 (31:06):
Yeah, and uh, And I think that that is the
That is the hero's journey. And I think we all
have a hero's journey to live and uh and I
think our fear keeps.
Speaker 2 (31:15):
Us from living that hero's journey. So I hope that
people watch the series.
Speaker 3 (31:18):
I hope people watch the series and read the psalms
because they're so relatable. But then I hope they asked
the question, Okay, what am I supposed to do?
Speaker 2 (31:26):
Like? What? What?
Speaker 3 (31:27):
What is that inner voice telling me to go. Do
that might be scary and be on my comfort zone.
Speaker 1 (31:32):
Okay, but the's are real quick questions because I know
you got to go and you've done it, and you've
got many more people.
Speaker 2 (31:36):
A great conversation. Roy I ask everybody these are royal.
It's my royal grande questions.
Speaker 3 (31:41):
Okay, this is the what was the the gym?
Speaker 2 (31:45):
What's the inn? James?
Speaker 1 (31:50):
I won't ask you that the person you most admire,
who is the person I most admire?
Speaker 3 (31:58):
You know, I would say that I I admire many
many people like I love a great biography, and I
love to learn from the stories of others.
Speaker 2 (32:07):
So of course, you.
Speaker 3 (32:08):
Know, I think right now, in the moment that I'm in,
I would say David. Probably six months from now, when
I'm directing this movie, I would say George Washington.
Speaker 2 (32:15):
But Washington, Yeah, But.
Speaker 3 (32:19):
There's something about about gleaning from other people's stories and
uh and and a lot of that is whatever story
I'm presently telling, or maybe a book I've read, but
but I'm fully immersed in the story of David right now.
Speaker 2 (32:33):
What is your best feature?
Speaker 3 (32:35):
My best feature? You know, probably you know I'll tell
you this. This is the under celebrated virtue. Okay, curiosity.
I think if you can combine curiosity with pain tolerance,
there is not much that you can't achieve if you
can just be constantly learning. And so I think I
(32:55):
live I live my life curious the level of curiosity
and learn all the time. And I think when that
is met with a level of determination, there is there
are a few things that you can't achieve.
Speaker 2 (33:05):
What's your worst feature?
Speaker 3 (33:07):
Oh, my gosh, my worst feature is probably just the
uncontrollable personality of the artist.
Speaker 2 (33:12):
Like if you're like, I'm a I'm an ADHD nightmare.
Speaker 3 (33:16):
But my my biggest battles are within not my biggest
battles are with myself. Sometimes I feel like I'm I'm
I'm the greatest villain to my own story, you know.
Speaker 2 (33:26):
And uh, And.
Speaker 3 (33:26):
That's I think one of the reasons why I like
telling stories, whether it's David or whether it's Jesus Revolution.
I like these stories of imperfect people that are very
flawed that God still uses because I feel.
Speaker 2 (33:37):
Like I fit right in. We all do. Yeah, what
is the thing you know that authors don't know?
Speaker 3 (33:46):
I know, boy, that's a great question and a loaded question.
Speaker 2 (33:50):
It is I know.
Speaker 3 (33:52):
That it you know what, I think The thing that
I can most that would be most helpful to people
listening is I know that it just takes longer than
you think. In the sense that I wanted to Ice first.
The spark of curiosity for David happened when I was
sixteen years old. The first script I wrote for a
movie on David was in twenty twelve. And success is
(34:12):
long obedience in the same direction. If you genuinely feel
like your call to do something, just keep going. It's
going to take a lot longer than you think, and
then you're going to get to this breakthrough moment. And
I think there's not a lot of failures in terms
of stories. There's just a lot of incomplete stories. In
the sense of there's not a lot of bad films.
(34:33):
There's just unfinished films. Sometimes we say, and I think
sometimes people give up and you never know when that
breakthrough moment where the fog clears was right around the corner.
Speaker 2 (34:42):
And you stop too early, and you stop too early.
Speaker 3 (34:45):
So if I can give any advice to anybody is
if you really feel like you're supposed to do something,
as long as you're learning, as long as you're curious,
don't give up.
Speaker 2 (34:52):
You just never know when that moment is right around
the corner. Final question, what happens when this is over? Oh? Man,
I take a nap. I think is.
Speaker 3 (35:03):
But I'll tell you what I really dream of, and
this is the dream of the Wonder project. Is you
think about the most profound outcome that could come from
all this. Somebody should make a documentary sometime of the
twenty five year mayhem that has led to Fate film
and the reemergence of this type content and.
Speaker 2 (35:21):
The yahoos that God has used to do it.
Speaker 3 (35:25):
But my hope the outcome that I would be most
like this made the journey worth it is If you
watch The House of David Traylor, the first title card
that comes up is the MGM logo LEO the lionis
is one hundred years of entertainment. My hope is that
a lot of these successes for movies and television can
coalesce into an institution that can last one hundred years
(35:46):
and really allow us to tell these stories on a
global scale long after I'm not able. So I joke
around that I'd love to see a studio last one
hundred years. I'd love to get it halfway. If Clint
Easwood can do it, I can do it, you know.
But the idea is that would be a transcendent outcome
that my hope and prayer and strong belief is that
(36:08):
there's now this group of creatives and we're willing each
other on to success. We're competing in the best sense
of the word, just trying to one up each other.
Like you know, I remember seeing every version of Dallas
Jenkins scene of Walking on the Water. I was shooting
the Jesus Revolution move with the Keys his DP, so
we were looking at every version on a Keith's phone
and I was called Dallason but that was a I
(36:30):
feel that that's the best version of the Walking on
the Water that I've ever seen. It was so well done,
and that just makes me want to like one up
and with the Dam.
Speaker 2 (36:37):
And Goliath, I'm like, wait till you see David Goliath.
But that's happening.
Speaker 3 (36:41):
And my hope is that the work that we're doing
as a group of friends and partners and collaborators right
now will sort of break the dam, as it were,
to allow creatives to come behind us and have their
voices heard, and that would be the most inspiring goal.
Speaker 2 (36:56):
And to have any role in.
Speaker 3 (36:58):
Something that's emerging in front of you like is a privilege.
And to bleed on the bleeding edge, to be in
the arena at all is a great privilege.
Speaker 2 (37:07):
Well, John, I was not lost on me.
Speaker 1 (37:09):
Leo the Lion opened the movie and David confronts Leo
in the movie.
Speaker 2 (37:13):
But I'm not what happened. Isn't that amazing?
Speaker 3 (37:16):
I just think that was actually one of the things
that that you know, you know, Samuel says to David
in the show. Uh, you know, God doesn't look on
the outward appearance. He looks in the heart. That's what's
in the Bible. And then we add, and you have
the heart of a lion, you know. And what a
lions do? They roar, he tells him. And uh, And
so the fact that the trailer opens with the lion energy,
(37:37):
it is a good omen.
Speaker 2 (37:38):
I think it's great, great interview. We have talked for hours.
Speaker 1 (37:43):
Okay, here's the whole House of David is on Amazon
Prime and it's worth watching with your family. But after
I spoke to John, I thought, why was David able
to whip Goliath so badly?
Speaker 2 (37:55):
Well, like every small person.
Speaker 1 (37:57):
Who takes on a big entity or a tiny hero
on a huge villain. He flipped the script on Goliath.
The philistine warrior thought he was fighting a conventional enemy
with swords and shields, a battle of strength, But David
brought a stone to the knife fight. His surprising ingenuity,
leaning into his own strength, gave him the victory. He
(38:20):
also had unflinching faith, a tested faith. At one point,
he says, the Lord has delivered me out of the
paw of the lion and out of the paw of
the bear. He will deliver me out of the hand
of this philistine. That determined faith, coupled with ingenuity made
him a hero and the thing John said about jumping
(38:42):
off the edge of your comfort zone.
Speaker 2 (38:44):
With faith, that really is the hero's journey.
Speaker 1 (38:49):
If you like our work, go to Raymondarroyo dot com
hit the donate button.
Speaker 2 (38:53):
We'd appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (38:54):
I hope you'll come back to a royal grande soon.
Why live a dry, narrow, constricted life. If you fill
it with good things, it can flow into a broad,
thriving Arroyo Grande.
Speaker 2 (39:05):
I'm Rayment Arroyo.
Speaker 1 (39:06):
Make sure you subscribe. Like the episode. Thanks for diving
in and we'll see you next time. Arroyo Grande is
produced in partnership with iHeart Podcasts and Divine Providence Studios,
and is available on YouTube, the iHeartRadio app, or wherever
you get your podcasts,
Host
Raymond Arroyo
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