September 17, 2025 • 49 mins
In this episode of Arroyo Grande, Raymond Arroyo sits down with bestselling author and Catholic commentator Dr. Taylor Marshall to discuss his powerful new book, Christian Patriot: Twelve Ways to Create One Nation Under God. Together, they unpack the cultural impact of Charlie Kirk’s assassination, the rise of faith among young people, and the dangers of radical ideologies spreading through universities and social media.
Marshall explains the difference between Christian nationalism and Christian patriotism, why matrimony is the foundation of society, and how Catholics and Protestants alike can reclaim public space for faith in today’s secular culture. He also reflects on the challenges facing families, the traditional Latin Mass, and the need for moral clarity in American life.
Whether you’re curious about the future of Christianity in America, Catholic social teaching, or the role of faith in public life, this candid conversation offers a thought-provoking roadmap for restoring virtue and unity in a nation in turmoil.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
The United States is in such turmoil. The entire world
is how do you restore a nation? And is the
explosion of faith we're seeing among young people. A leading indicator, podcaster,
author Taylor Marshall joins me on this Arroyo Grande. Come on,
(00:25):
I'm rating to Royal Welcome to a Royal Grande. Go
subscribe to the show now. It's a great way to
support the show and it's entirely free. How many things
can you say that about? Turn the notifications on so
you know what's coming. My guest today is a doctor
of philosophy, a former Episcopal priest and a podcaster extraordinary
as well as an author, and he has a new book,
(00:47):
Christian Patriot Twelve Ways to Create One Nation under God.
Doctor Taylor Marshall is here. Taylor, thanks for being here.
I want to start with Charlie Kirk's assassination. I know
you knew Charlie. I was struck talking to students about
the effect this is having on them. For young people,
this is really an RFK MLK moment for them. He
(01:10):
was a huge cultural force and a touchstone in their lives.
What do you think this tragedy represents and where do
we as a country go from here.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
Well, I knew Charlie. And the great thing about Charlie
is he was a real, genuine, friendly young man, but
he was a political leader who put Christ first. If
you listen to any of his debates, any of his speeches,
he's constantly talking about Jesus Christ and you young people,
you know, you should get married and have children and
(01:42):
the importance of the family. And his message was I think,
in many ways different than a lot of the voices
on the right. He was the emerging young class of
influencers who see that being conservative and more and more
conservative is not enough. That Jesus Christ needs to be
at the center of our lives and the center of
(02:03):
our movement. And I think that's one of the reasons
why he captured the heart of so many people, especially
the young people, is he was transitioning the conversation towards
Jesus Christ, and that's his legacy. And it's just so
sad to see it cut off so soon.
Speaker 1 (02:18):
Yeah, this shooter that took Charlie's life was obviously radicalized
in some way. Talk to me about the dangers really
of having these devices on your person that not only
delivers Taylor pernicious ideas and agendas, but then it regurgitates
and repeats them with more frequency because of the algorithm.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
It's the phones, certainly, and it's also I think our
education system. I think those are the one two punches.
You know, so many parents think, I'll just send my
kids to the public school K through twelve. I'll give
them this unlocked iPhone. And there is so much garbage.
It's just toxic waste that's flowing through these phones. You're
not careful with these phones. We really like gab phones
(03:02):
for our younger children to kind of log down and
a little bit more secure. But also we got to
talk about education. This perpetrator seems to have come from
an intact family. I don't know much about them. We're
just getting the news about them. But it doesn't seem
to be a radicalized family. It seems that this young
man received these ideas, these radical ideas, at university. And
(03:25):
that's a conversation we need to have as a nation.
And Charlie Kirk to go back to him. He was
right there on the front lines. He was going to
college campuses. So yes, it's the phone, Yes it's social media,
but we need to have a serious talk about how
young people are being formed on college campuses.
Speaker 1 (03:43):
Well, I agree that it's all of this. Certainly, Charlie
was engaging in you know, in dialogue with kids on campuses.
But they knew im principally because of the TikTok posts
and the ex post where they were seeing these little
skirmishes if you well, where Charlie was engaging. The issues
they were dealing with are questions they had, and he
(04:04):
was doing an a tight, pithy way, you know. Marshall
mccluhan said, the electronic universe, and he was the guy
who came up with really envisioned the Internet, the global village,
and he thought that this electronic universe was an unholy
imposter and I'll quote him, a blatant manifestation of the Antichrist?
(04:26):
Is it, Taylor Marshall?
Speaker 2 (04:29):
You know, it's kind of the conversation you know about
same with AI. You know, like with guns. You know,
guns don't kill people. People kill people. And Charlie Kirk
is someone who used social media and use these platforms
to affect not just millions, tens hundreds of millions. I'm
hearing from people from different countries and we have to.
(04:50):
We don't want to villainize the mechanism, even though the
mechanism is being used for horrible evils and even to
speak of pornography. But Charlie does represent using what is
so dangerous to bring about good, and of course you're
doing the same with the podcast television. We can use
(05:10):
these things for good. Unfortunately, the Devil's God is clause
into most of it. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (05:16):
Well, you know, Charlie, I think had the notion and
I think you and I share it that you have
to redeem the time that we're given. And it's not
enough to complain or rip down or criticize. You have
to actually put things in the middle of the culture
that uplift and challenge and enchant and draw people to
their better angels and who they're really called to be.
(05:38):
Tell me, and there's a good segue, I guess to
your book, Christian Patriot Twelve Ways to Create One Nation
under God? Where are we now? And what's the difference
between Taylor a Christian nationalist, which we hear so much about.
You see the New York Times and the Atlantic Magazine
always warning of Christian nationalism. What's the difference between a
(05:58):
Christian nationalist and a Christian Patriot in your mind.
Speaker 2 (06:03):
I'm glad you asked that question because Christian nationalism is
a growing movement and it's generally Protestant, and I applaud
many of the things that they are saying. They're basically saying,
we need to go back to our Christian roots as
a nation. Now we're Catholics, and we have a two
thousand year treasury of Catholic political philosophy, natural law, sant Augustin,
(06:25):
Thomas Aquinas. We have so much more there. And so
when I was putting this book together, and actually in
the early stages, I was going to call it something
like returning to Christendom or something, and Charlie Kirk who
was like, I don't think that's the right that's not
the right title. So we came up with Christian Patriot.
And the reason the book is called Christian Patriot is,
you know, in my studies, I noticed that Thomas Aquinas
(06:47):
focuses on patriotism as a virtue, and we need to
get back to virtue ethics. Patriotism is love for the
patria and potrio is the Latin word for fatherland. It's
based on pater and when you think about that, and
you think about citizenship and patriotism. It is Thomas Aquina says,
(07:07):
it is honoring your father and mother, it's receiving a patrimony,
another patter word. And if we root it in virtue,
we're now breathing Catholic air. And I wanted to move
this conversation in a more Catholic, a more Tonistic discussion.
And the Christian nationalists are using the word nationalists. Now
(07:29):
people are very quick to identify that with Nazism, but
also the word nationalism is based on the Latin word,
not to it's birth, where you were born, And there's
something more about being a patriot and a citizen than
where you were born. It really should be more like
what Thomas Aquinas talks about. It's loving your patria, it's
loving your fatherland. And so I think that's a subtle
(07:50):
difference between the way Catholics understand things and Protestants understand things.
And I want this book to change the discussion and
get us more into our two thousand year tradition as
opposed to just going back to you know, seventeen seventy
six or the Puritans.
Speaker 1 (08:07):
Taylor, you begin the book with the culture war and
a battle Christians seemed to be losing. Why is that?
And where did things start going wrong in this cultural skirmish?
If you will.
Speaker 2 (08:22):
I mean there's there's several, you know, pivotal moments. But
I think for our nation, United States of America, after
World War One and after World War Two, we came
back and there was this idea, if you have strong beliefs,
if you have strong convictions, dogmas, it's going to lead
to another World War three. And so I think there
was this gentleman's agreement, a subtle one that says, hey,
you know, take all your strong beliefs and put them
(08:45):
in the closet, you know, don't park them in the
public square, and we'll all just be gentlemen. We'll be rational,
we can handshake on this. We'll work for the common good.
You know. That was forties, fifties. Once you get to
the sixties, that created a vacuum where Christianity sort of
treated from the public square. And that vacuum was quickly
filled by in the book I call the new secular religion.
(09:06):
And they claim they're not a religion, but they have
an agenda, they have dogma, they have their own morality,
they have their own inquisition now we call it being canceled.
They have their own Saint's Days, they have their whole
month of June, they have their monuments. They're quickly taking
over the culture. And I think into the eighties and nineties,
you know, maybe we didn't quite notice it, but in
the twenty twenties, it's in our face. Everything is being overturned.
(09:32):
And so you know, part of this book, Christian patriot
Is is we have to take up space again. The
retreat from the public square and the assumption that we
can all be neutral in the political sphere is impossible.
It's christ or chaos.
Speaker 1 (09:47):
I want to read a quote, this is from the book,
and have you elaborate and explain this. You're right, Muslim
countries have Muslim laws, cultures, rules, and customs. Israel has
Jewish laws, culture rule, and customs. India has Hindu laws,
culture rules, and customs. However, for Christian nation with a
(10:07):
Christian majority attempts to promote Christian laws, culture rules, and customs,
it faces strong resistance end quote. But Taylor, the founders
never intended this to be a sectarian nation. I mean,
you know, some read that and think you're arguing for
a Christian theocracy, are you, well, we.
Speaker 2 (10:27):
Have to define the terms Christian theocracy if we want
to be governed in our hearts and as a people
by God. That's one definition of theocracy. But part of
the persuasive, you know, argument of this book is the
separation of church and state has to be reconsidered. Thomas
Jefferson invented that term. In fact, the full phrase of
Thomas Jefferson is the law of separation of Church and State.
(10:51):
It's not the declaration, it's not in the Constitution. And
in the book, I show Thomas Jefferson was a scoundrel.
He consorted, maybe even violated his slave women, and he
wrote the Jefferson Bible. He took the New Testament and
he cut out every miracle, the Resurrection, every single time
Jesus claimed to be the son of God or divine.
(11:12):
He denied the Trinity, he denied the Resurrection. He reduced
Jesus Christ to a guru. And then he puts out
his own New Testament. So we as Christians today need
to realize that Thomas Jefferson is actually to the left
of AOC. Thomas Jefferson is very radical. He supported the
French Revolution and for us to lionize him. And yes,
(11:32):
he did some amazing things for a country, but we
need to kind of surgically go back to our founding
and I think we need to surgically remove Thomas Jefferson.
Men like John Adams and many other founding fathers were excellent,
but Thomas Jefferson has a subversive political philosophy that does
not fit with Catholicism and not with Protestantism either.
Speaker 1 (11:53):
Yeah, but Taylor, I mean the Establishment Clause of the
Constitution says Congress who will make no law respecting an
establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof. But
can you enforce a religious moral code in the US
or via the US Constitution?
Speaker 2 (12:09):
That's the question. You can't enforce or coerce religious belief.
I'm not arguing, and I don't think the Catholic tradition argues,
you know, let's put swords to people's throats and say
be baptized. That's not our tradition. But most certainly America
and all the original thirteen colonies, and even afterwards when
(12:31):
they become states, and for even decades and for some
of them one hundred years, they do endorse for some
of the colonies. You had to when you took an
oath for office. Affirm your belief in the Trinity, affirm
your belief in the Old New Testaments. This is part
of our original founding. And that statement that you read,
this is not separation of church and state. I'm a
(12:54):
member of the state. I'm a citizen. I'm also a
member of the Catholic Church and Raymond. There's no line
that goes through me where it's like, this is the
Catholic side and this is the citizen of America side.
I am both. I'm fully both. And if the nation,
if the Pact, if the Patria is the collection of us,
that division doesn't exist anywhere. There's no division in Raymond,
(13:18):
and there's no division in me. So to say there's
a separation of church and state is ultimately trying to
create a separation in the person.
Speaker 1 (13:25):
Yeah. But Taylor, that letter to the Danbury Baptist I mean,
I know it very well. That letter talking about the
separation of church and state actually referred to keeping the
government out of the affairs of the Danbury Baptist Right.
Speaker 2 (13:37):
Yeah, that's right.
Speaker 1 (13:38):
I've been manipulated. But that's so I mean, and I
kind of agree with you on Jefferson's personal behavior and
his love of revolution, but when it comes to this,
he was actually right.
Speaker 2 (13:49):
Yeah, of course, we don't want the state meddling in
the church, you know, and we don't want the state
of winning our bishops. Absolutely. I mean, there's there was
many interdictions in many wars between popes and emperors or
this very It's how Saint Thomas Beckett died was over
this issue. But the proper integration, and there's different ways
of understanding it and discussing it based on different forms
(14:10):
of government. What we're arguing for in Christian patriot is
there needs to be a true integration of Christianity in
the state. Not Islam. I know this is controversial, not Hindu.
The majority is a Christian state. And if you think
of as John Adams said, and Socrates and Plato and
Aristotle and Augustine and Aquinas, they all said, the nation
(14:33):
is the assembly of the family units of the families.
And John Adams taught this very strictly. If that's who
we are, and we are Christian families, and I have
a cross in my house and we say prayers in
my home if that is the majority to the people,
we should have a cross and we should say Catholic prayers.
That's our tradition. And I know it's controversial, but I
want people to rethink this.
Speaker 1 (14:55):
Well, I know. But the challenge here is it becomes
religion by you know, just expression via majority rule, which
concerns me Frankly. If I happen to live in Dearborn, Michigan,
you know, Raymond with his cross is suddenly outnumbered. Do
I now have to you know, bow down five times
a day like my neighbors. I mean, there is a
(15:16):
there is an inversion of this argument that I worry about, Franklin.
Speaker 2 (15:19):
Yeah, it works with Christianity. It doesn't work when then
we're majority Muslim. And that's one of the things I
discussed in the book is is birth rates and population.
It's a conversation that we need to have because if
Muslims are having four average babies per mother and we're
having two, we lose. It's just simple mathematics. Like you
can talk ideology all day long, but Dearborn Michigan is
(15:41):
coming to your neighborhood over the decades. If we don't
have serious and the first part of the book is
just kind of the philosophy. But the second half of
the book is the twelve steps for how we can
do that.
Speaker 1 (15:51):
Which I'm going to get to, I promise.
Speaker 2 (15:53):
Yeah, this is the conversation that we all need to have,
is is why did we lose society? And then what
can we practice do to reverse this and to create
a beautiful civilization built on the beatitudes.
Speaker 1 (16:07):
Yeah, you're right extensively also in the book about the
evil in Christian Patriot and with the murders of Charlie Kirk,
Irina Zarutzka, the victims of the Minneapolis shooting, evil is
certainly more pronounced and perhaps present than in days gone by.
(16:28):
How does the separation of church and state, in your opinion,
open the door to that evil, or rather the understanding
of the separation of church and state, which has become
a heavily patrolled border that keeps religion out of public affairs.
Speaker 2 (16:44):
Yes. Well, when you look at what makes civilization great,
it's Christianity. It's Jesus Christ. The emergence of hospitals and
universities and orphanages and civil rights, all of that comes
not just from Western civilization. It comes from Christianity. And
we see that really since the fifteen hundreds, but intensely
in the eighteen hundreds and nineteen hundreds. The more nations
(17:07):
move away from Christ, the worst they become. And it's
in all measures, divorce, birth rates, all the demographics. And
so that's the conversation that we need to have. Do
you want to live in a better society or a
worse society? And the better societies, it's historically proven, are
the Christian societies, because Jesus is the logos, He is
(17:28):
the order of human society.
Speaker 1 (17:30):
Human interaction is what they're going forward. Taylor, akin to
what Richard Dawkins said in recent days where you're having
you really are having a clash of cultures in the UK,
and Dawkins a about atheists, says, I would prefer to
live in a Christian society then the one that I
(17:51):
find myself in now.
Speaker 2 (17:52):
Not only atheists like Dawkins, but Muslims. Where do Muslims
want to live? They want to live here, They want
to experience what Christianity and Christian civilization has built all people.
There's Indians, Hindu Indians streaming into our country right now.
They want to be here too. Everyone wants to be
and They want to go to Europe too, even though
(18:13):
Europe is starting to crumble. Everyone, no matter what their religion, Atheist, Muslim, Hindu,
they want to come here. And the reason is is
we still have the fundamentals, the basis of what makes
a good society, but we are losing it. And I
don't think we've lost it. I talk about that in
the book. The fact that we're still being attacked, the
(18:33):
fact that what happened to Charlie, God bless his soul
this week, shows that we still have strength. They're still
fighting us, They're still attacking us.
Speaker 1 (18:43):
There is a new pope in rome Leo the fourteenth.
I know you've been covering this extensively. He is a
member of the Augustinian Order. And you mention both Saint
Augustine and Thomas Aquinas extensively in this book. How do
those two schools have thought, twine in your reasoning here?
And why are they important for the layman who perhaps
(19:05):
has never encountered either of them.
Speaker 2 (19:07):
Sure? Yeah, And in the very last minute before press,
I actually rewrote a section based on some of the
things that Popeli of the fourteenth as stated regarding family
in the state. But yeah, there I think Augustine and
Aquinas are are an agreement. Augustine wrote a monumental, huge
book called City of God, and it's his theology of
understanding the relationship and sometimes the friction between the City
(19:31):
of God, the Kingdom of God, and the city of Man,
which is corrupted by original sin. And that's that is
the magnum opus of political philosophy by Sant Augustine, and
it sets the course for the rest of Catholicism even
to this day. And Thomas Aquinas very much builds upon that.
Of course, Thomas Aquinas brings in a lot more of
an Aristotelian and a natural law with us to this,
(19:55):
not that it wasn't there in Augustine. And so we
have this, we have this tradition, we have this, this wealth,
we have a box full of treasure. And I don't
know if Catholics in America, I think it's probably because
it's a Protestant majority nation and we've kind of kept
our heads down and kind of just tried to fit
in a little bit. But I think we have a
great gift to give to culture. And I was talking
(20:15):
to Charlie Kirk and he said, he says, basically I'm
seeing more and more that the thought leaders and the
people with the strongest conviction are the Catholics. He told
me that, he told me that on camera we were live,
and I think the world was seeing that. And I
think that's because we're coming from a position of strength
(20:36):
in our political Our experience is not just America. Our
experience is every single nation that was part of Christendom,
the good and the bad, the ugly, and we have
all of this to build on. And I think one
of the great things about Pope Leo the fourteenth is
he said he chose his name from Pope Leo the thirteenth,
and he's already been citing Rerem Navarum, which is something
I cite in this book as well. And so it's
(20:59):
encouraging to see that Pope Leo the fourteenth, at least
on the social issues and the political issues, is drawing
on Pope Leo the thirteenth and rare no of arm
because that's a very important document for Catholics and another
gift I think that we could give to the world.
Speaker 1 (21:13):
Yeah, and this is the foundation of Catholic social teaching
really and certainly in the modern age. What in your
estimation is the proper form of government? Taylor Marshall, how
do you see that looking? I mean, you know, you
have civil government based on God's establishment of traditional family.
I mean, is that what you're really going after here?
Speaker 2 (21:33):
The most important thing is the recognition of matrimony in
the family. And at the Reformation they demoted marriage as
not a sacrament. That's a big problem that was really
I think that the crumbling of you know, Christendom or
Western civilization. You know, Pope Leo and even Thomas Aquinas
actually show some latitude on what is the best or
(21:56):
you know, forms of government. And Robert Bellerman actually writes
a lot about this as well. He actually talks about
a mixed government, and Thomas does as well. So you know,
there's not a dogmatic teaching of the Catholic Church on
what is the best form of government. But I think
if you look at it traditionally and since the time
of Constantine, there has been a Catholic tendency towards monarchy,
(22:18):
of favoring a monarchy because of the integration of the
monarchy and the nobility in working in conjunction with the bishops,
because the bishops are also a hierarchical structure. So I
think that's maybe the most the most natural. But we
don't live in a moment right now where we can
say rah rah, you know, Christian monarchy. But I think
that is that's kind of the majority position in the
(22:40):
Catholic Church. But there have been Catholic republics and there
could be Catholic republics again. So in the book, I
don't really go into the form of government. It's really
more of what do we need to be as a
society to foster human excellence, you know, living the beatitudes.
Speaker 1 (22:56):
Yeah, I have a I'm thinking of an old acting
teacher of mine who used to say, I would love
to live in a monarchy, so long as I could
be the monarchy, you know, and that's it, which I yeah, Okay.
In your book, layout really a twelve step program of
sorts to get back to this idea of one nation
under God. As the subtitle implies, let's talk about a
(23:17):
few of those you mentioned. Christ in the Soul and
to take up public space for Christ. Those two are
really related. Tell me what those related strategies mean practically.
Speaker 2 (23:31):
Well, the first strategy is Christ and the Soul, and
it's a crash course in Catholic you know, conversion, and
this book is written for a general audience. I really
hope Protestants will read this book. In fact, if you
know Protestants and you kind of want to get them
attracted to Catholicism, I think this book is great because
they'll be reading it like Wow, Augustin said that, and
the Pope said, Pope Leo said this, and Thomas Aquinas
(23:53):
said this. There's a lot of just sort of fireworks
that go off in this book, and I think Protestants
will be attracted to But I wanted the Protestants to
know and Catholics to know that, you know, we can
do all these things and talk about policies and changes
and social you know, active activization and all these things.
But if you're not converted in the soul, if you
(24:14):
don't have sanctifying grace, if you're not living a sacramental life,
if you're not in daily prayer, if you're not forming
your marriage and your children around Christ, none of this matters.
You know, it'll just be a hollow structure. We actually
have to be filled with the Holy Spirit, and so
I talk about, you know, what that means, and how
to be close to Christ. And then you said, take
(24:36):
up space is the next one. We used to be
great at this, you know, processions and parades and statues,
and you know, you go to Italy, you go to Poland,
you go to France. There's the Blessed Mother on the corner,
and Saint Michael and Padre Pio and Saint you know, Joseph.
They took up space. They decorated their society as an
(24:58):
outward expression of the interior reality of what they believed.
And we see the new secular religion in the last
twenty years has gone out. They're reading to kids at
the public library, They're marching down Main Street during June.
They're putting their flag on every embassy, every government building.
They are taking up space. And when you take up space,
(25:20):
what you're saying is our beliefs, our ideology are triumphant,
and we own this. That's why they're reading at the library,
at your public library, and that's why they're pushing it
in your schools. We own the public space, we own
the political sphere. And Catholics from the very beginning have
been public witnesses through martyrdom, but also just by the
(25:42):
way they honor their culture and say Christ is King,
Mary's the queen and they put up things, and so
you know, everyone can do this. You can put a
statue of the Virgin Mary out in front of your house,
so you can put a crucifix in your room. These
are the kind of things that start small, but they
snowball into a cultural transformation.
Speaker 1 (26:02):
Your other twelve steps, and we're going to do the
reader's digestive them because I got so much I need
to get to. But they're really policy prescriptions to my eye,
from parental rights for kids to outlawing porn. What's the
most critical in your mind?
Speaker 2 (26:17):
The most critical is personal conversion and being filled with
grace and knowing Christ. But I think that the very
the most critical is defining matrimony. That's if we don't
get that one right, we lose it all. Because matrimony
is what protects the family. It ensures that a child
(26:37):
from infancy until adulthood. Thomas Aquina says, you know the
goal of matrimony is procreation and education, rearing the child.
Anybody can be a baby mom or a baby daddy,
but it's that teaching them, catechizing them, making them virtuous,
teaching them virtue, teaching them, getting the sacraments, and so
if we have matrimony as a sacrament operly defined. God
(27:02):
invented matrimony at creation Genesis. He elevated it to a
sacrament at the wedding of Kana. He decides what matrimony is.
A quorum of twelve men cannot decide the definition of marriage.
A judge cannot define that. The Senate cannot define what
marriage is. And we, as Christian Zena, say no, God
define marriage. It's a very specific definition. If we can't
(27:26):
define marriage, we can't define what is a man, what
is a woman? When does life begin? When does life end?
That I think is the pivotal definition, and I think
we have to fight for that because everything below that,
you know, banning pornography and you know parental rights, all
of those flow really from the sanctity of matrimony.
Speaker 1 (27:51):
I want to jump back a little bit to a
previous book because I got this question this week. Somebody
friend of mine he had just read your Christian Patriarch book,
and they said they were confused, and they said, wait,
Taylor Marshall wrote this book called Infiltration, where he claimed
there was a plot to undermine the Catholic Church from
within now he's asking us to turn to the Catholic Church.
(28:13):
It's been somehow infiltrated. What hard evidence would you convince
skeptics of this idea that you put forward in the book,
that this isn't just a conspiracy but actually a historical infiltration.
Speaker 2 (28:29):
Yeah, if you look at the scandals we've had, not
just in two thousand and two, but before then and
since then, and you look at the ambiguity and the
confusion of doctrine where the majority of Catholics in this
country do not believe in the real presence transubstantiation. You
look at the rapid decline in vocation just hard facts,
(28:50):
vocations of the priesthood to the religious life, the decline
in marriages, the decline in infant baptisms, the decline in
adult baptisms, the increase in annulments. Like, there is so
much evidence that something is broken. Something is broken, And
I don't believe that the Holy Spirit ever stopped working.
I don't believe Jesus stopped being the king and the
(29:10):
leader of the Catholic Church. So that means that there's
something else that is causing problems in the kind and
it's not the Church. The Catholic Church is one holy
Catholic and Apostolic. That means that there must be wolves
in sheep's clothing, and Jesus promised they would come. He said,
beware of wolves in sheep's clothing. He said, beware of
false prophets. He promised us that there would be judas scariots,
(29:33):
there would be false prophets. It's in the Gospel. He
says it's going to happen. So to say that it's
not happening. There are no wolves, there are no false prophets,
there are no false brethren. It goes against the words
of Jesus Christ, and it goes against what we actually
see in twenty twenty five.
Speaker 1 (29:49):
And you in the book you imply more than imply.
You point the finger at the Freemasons, Okay, which popes
have warned about through the last century, really even before that.
But the founding of these guilts, My question is do
you think those Freemasons have that kind of enduring power
in the present day. I mean, I pulled a stat
(30:12):
on this the other day. NPR had a report that
membership in the US among Freemasons has fallen from nineteen
fifty nine by seventy five percent. I mean they're opening
their doors to tours trying to get people to come
to the lodge. Do you really think they have that
kind of power influence, authority and membership today?
Speaker 2 (30:29):
Absolutely not. And I say that in the book Infiltration
that you have to understand Freemasonry when it begins in
seventeen seventeen. It's a secret society. Why is it a
secret society because if you said these kind of disruptive
things in public, you would actually be killed in the
seventeen hundreds eighteen hundreds, so they were in secret societies.
What they taught and what they promoted in the Freemason
(30:50):
which is the civil liberties that are not based in
God right and basically a proto communism, They couldn't say
that back then. By the time you get into the
late eighteen hundreds and the fall of the Papal States,
and you get into the nineteen hundreds in post World
War Two, you don't have to be a Freemason, you
don't have to be a member, you don't have to
(31:11):
be in a secret society. They teach it in the
freshman class at the university, right, they teach it on
Oprah like the Gnostic worldview of Freemasonry becomes mainstream. So
of course freemasonry in twenty twenty five is dead. It's
kind of a joke because you don't have to be
in a secret society. It's not a secret, it is mainstream.
So yeah, Freemasonry I think is a very It's still
(31:34):
very dangerous, but its power and its potency and its
infection was really in the seventeen hundreds, eighteen hundreds. By
the time we're in the Second World War situation, I
think it kind of starts becoming the air we breathe
by the nineteen sixties.
Speaker 1 (31:51):
Tell me about your journey. I mean we met you
were I think you were you had left Episcopalianism, but
you were an Episcopal priest. What was it that tipped
you over the edge and drew you to Catholicism.
Speaker 2 (32:08):
Yeah, you know, I was an Episcopalian priest and I
did a lot of pro life work. And we would
go on Thursdays, we'd have our version of Mass Holy Communion,
and we would go to the Planned Parenthood and we
would pray, and there was always like seven or eight Episcopealians,
but there's like twenty five thirty Catholics and they were
praying the Rosary, and there's a priest there. I got
to know them, and I remember just they were much
(32:29):
more intense than we were. I remember seeing this lady.
She was kind of middle aged, and she was very
well to do, and she was kneeling in the gravel
praying the Rosary, and I was like, she believes, like
she's a real disciple of Jesus, you know. And that
was that witness was very attractive to me. And then
as an Episcopalian, I started getting pushedback from my congregation
about being so pro life. They're like, hey, don't be
(32:51):
so political about this. And I started to realize that
as an Episcopalian priest, I didn't have the authority. I
didn't have the magisterium. I didn't have the toolbox to
be authentically pro life and defend what I truly believed.
And in the meantime, you know, my wife's watching Mother
Angelica and watching EWTN or having these conversations, and really
(33:12):
it came. We went to Rome and we were invited
to a mass with Pope Bend the sixteenth. In that morning,
we had been in the Scavi and seeing Saint Peter's
bones and During that mass, Raymond, I was standing right
by the bronze statue of Saint Peter. It came time
for communion in the I was wearing a clerical car
and I was wearing episcopal priestthood clothes, and these nuns
were trying to push me up padre Pridy to go
(33:33):
to communion. And I knew I couldn't receive communion because
I wasn't Catholic. And I'll tell you, Raymond, some people
don't believe me when I say this, but I was
sick to my stomach because I looked up there and
I thought Peter's down there under the altar. Pope Benedict,
successor of Peter's right there. This is the real church,
and I'm not in it. And I knew. I knew
(33:54):
I was a heretic, and I knew I was a
sismatic in that moment, and I knew that if I
didn't try to enter the church, i'd go to help.
That was my conversion.
Speaker 1 (34:02):
Why not join the ordinary? And for those who don't know,
Pope Benedict the sixteenth created would say free floating diocese,
if you will, for Anglican clerics to come into full
communion with the Catholic Church, but they would they're ordained
and become priests essentially in the Catholic Church.
Speaker 2 (34:22):
I was in that process, and I think when I
met you in Washington, d C. I was working at
the CIC there and part of my job is I
was helping with the correspondence with the Vatican to set
up what became the Anglican Ordinary. And I was on
track to be ordained a Catholic priest even though I
was married, because the provision applied to me. But you know,
as I, as I discerned and prayed and got to
know the Catholic priesthood, I just felt that I wasn't
(34:45):
being called to that, that I was called to be
a layman. And so even though I was in the process,
I you know, I was made a candidate for orders
and a lay eucharistic minister, and they, you know, they
were trying to get me through. It's kind of a
to your process. I just discerned, I don't think this
is where God's calling me, and he had another plan
(35:05):
for me.
Speaker 1 (35:06):
So yeah. Also, well, the Vatican continues taylor to restrict
the Latin Mass, the traditional Latin Mass, and we've covered
this for years. I do it here on the prayerful posse.
My question is, why does that liturgy matter so much
now in this cultural moment. Some will say from the outside,
(35:28):
this is really just a matter of preference, and you know,
you people are clinging to the past.
Speaker 2 (35:34):
You would say what I'd say, this is our patrimony,
this is our inheritance. And if you look at the
young people, I mean, I go to the traditional land mass.
I went yesterday, it's young people. Yes, there's all ages there,
but there's something that's attracting the young people because you know,
they have these cell phones, they have Netflix, they have
constant stream, they have constant just energy and noise all
(35:58):
around them. And I think when they enter into the
traditional Latin mass, I think something just clicks for them.
And I've I've we have eight kids, I've I've watched
them raise and they're they're kind of the same way.
I think there's there's something perennial and there's something beautiful
about it. And I think, you know, the older generation
in the hierarchy, you know, like Pope Francis's age, you know,
(36:21):
and that that kind of Popely of the fourteenth is
a little bit younger but I think the age of
of of Pope Francis, God Rest his soul, they kind
of see the Latin Masses like grandma's old couch, like
it was great, we have good memories about it. It's
kind of old. Let's get something new, you know, let's
go to Ikea and let's you know, get something that
the youth are gonna love it. But there's something that's
(36:43):
just that's just so beautiful and grounded in the traditional
Latin Mass. And I've experienced in my own life. I
think I can honestly say the traditional Latin Mass, and
I don't deny that the Novus Ordo is valid and
or real, but the traditional Latin Mass it draws me
closer to Jesus. And you know, I think it's it's
something that's very attractive and it's not going away. You know,
(37:06):
like we've been decades and decades fighting this silly battle
over this liturgy. Just let the liturgy be free.
Speaker 1 (37:13):
Well, it was free under Propendict I mean under Pope Benedict.
He liberated the old right and said, well, you know what,
We're going to have the traditional Latin Mass live aside
the New Mass, and it's going to live side by
side in every parish. Whatever the priest wants to do,
it's up to him, and that worked beautifully. There was
no problems, there were no wars in the parish. Granny
(37:34):
wasn't hitting the young kids who were on their way
into the Latin Mass. Everybody went about their lives and
they had a great time. If anything, I would argue
that period sacrilzed the New Right. It changed and transformed
the New Right. So now you're priests offering the new
Right facing east, which is the traditional posture of the
Mass in the traditional Latin mask.
Speaker 2 (37:56):
I don't think there was anything wrong with it. And
the pastoral experience was positive. And there's that kind of
scandal with Diane Montagna where Pope Francis when he issued
the restrictions, he said, well, I consulted the bishops and
it's been a negative experience, so I'm forced to move
my hand. And then Diane Montagna, you know, with the
protocol numbers provides the document and the bishops the summary
(38:18):
is it's like so positive and vocations and young people
and the parish life is wholesome. So I really I
think our heads are still kind of spinning here. What
happened when Pope Francis restricted to the traditional Latin Mass because
he said he consulted bishops and it was very negative.
And then we have the actual document and it's very positive.
(38:38):
And I think Pope Leo the fourteenth has a tremendous
opportunity here. I think even this year, if he could
to say, hey, we're going to free thee. Let's not
have the liturgy wars, let's free things up. If you
want the traditional Latin Mass, you can have the traditional
Latin Mass. It doesn't mean you're a bad person or schismatics.
It is what it is.
Speaker 1 (38:57):
Yeah, my gut is people will be waiting for while
for that. Really, you're raising eight children in a hypersecular culture.
Like everybody else. What's working, What's what's not working?
Speaker 2 (39:11):
Oh, let's see what's working, you know. I think another thing,
and I talked about this in the book, is education.
I know a lot of us, our family included, and
other families have tried public school. Maybe get a chance.
But I think we're at the point in twenty twenty five,
even in the most conservative school districts, the amount of influence,
you know, from the culture, but also from the teacher
(39:33):
in the administration I think we're at a moment now
where it's imperative for homeschooling or good Catholic schools. Not
all Catholic schools are the same because you know, they're
spending so much time there and the friendships and the
sports and everything they do. We've just seen as parents
that you know, doing a solid homeschool program or being
(39:53):
in a real Our kids are in a really good, conservative,
private Catholic school. It's night and day. I think it's
really important. And then I think also just your children
need to see that you believe these things. And a
big part of our families we do Rosary every night,
doesn't matter how late it is, how tied year is,
we do the Rosary, and that is just a reminder
(40:16):
that this is what matters to us. We pray the Rosary.
We're Catholic. We need to pray every day. It's hard
to pray every day, it's hard to find time. The
bare minimum we can do is pray the Rosary. So
I would say, pray the Rosary. You're not on the team,
get the beads out, get the kids leading the decades.
You got to pray that Rosary. And I think the
Latin Mass also is beneficial for young people.
Speaker 1 (40:37):
Yeah. No, it's supernatural. The supernatural mystery of it is tangible.
That's what's drawing the young. They're like children. You know,
when children see something, they're not superficial. Children are not superficial.
I talk to a lot of kids because of my
children's books. I go to schools often. You can't fool
(40:58):
a child to it reality because they're so fresh, if
you will, they haven't been jaded. And I think if
you when they when young people and children walk into
a Latin mass, they're seeing and sensing the reality that
frankly some adults have talked themselves out of. And it's
a supernatural reality, that's what That's what they're picking up.
And I've always thought it's like a tractor beam. You
(41:20):
can watch them, you know, you can almost watch them
transform in it too. But that's for another day. Okay,
I've got to get to the Royal Grande Questionnaire. I
ask everybody these questions in some variety. These are quick answers, Taylor,
I don't want you to think deeply. You ready, ready,
who's the person you most admire.
Speaker 2 (41:39):
Blessed Virgin Mary?
Speaker 1 (41:40):
Oh? Why?
Speaker 2 (41:42):
I mean, she's the mother of God. She's all pure.
I mean, I mean Jesus Christ, I mean, he's father, son,
holy ghost. But I think in created humans, the Blessed Mother.
I mean, I just have I have a picture right here.
I just have peace when I pray the Rosary when
I'm stressed, you know. And yeah, she's the Queen of peace.
So definitely the Blessed Mother.
Speaker 1 (42:03):
Who's the person you're most despise?
Speaker 2 (42:07):
Mmm. I want to play it easy and say the devil.
But I think right now, because of the work I've
been doing on Christian Patriot, I think in America, Thomas Jefferson,
I've really I did a deep diye on him, and
I'm really concerned about Thomas Jefferson.
Speaker 1 (42:23):
Oh boy, you're not. You don't want to be in
the room where it happened. Okay, we're gonna We're gonna
keep you off the Monticello tour. What what is your
best feature?
Speaker 2 (42:34):
What do you mean, physically or totally up to you?
Speaker 1 (42:37):
Totally up to you? Uh.
Speaker 2 (42:40):
I think my my gift is is that I'm able
to take complicated ideas like p tomism, whatever and present
them in a in a tangible way for for your
everyday man.
Speaker 1 (42:52):
What's your worst feature, be honest, Taylor, I think.
Speaker 2 (43:00):
Probably a melancholy or a discouragement or despair, like in
this last week with the Charlie Kirk thing. It's hard,
I think, and even maybe in a way that's a
fault to kind of lose hope a little bit.
Speaker 1 (43:15):
Well, it's hard when a young person is taken, you know.
I mean it's it's you know, and struck down in
such a vivid, awful, you know, immediate way, and under
those circumstances in the middle of their journey, I mean
really in the middle of what he was doing. Yeah,
I understand why you would despair. Well, what do you fear?
Speaker 2 (43:36):
My greatest fear would probably be for my children, that
anything would happen to them, or that they would lose
the faith or Yeah.
Speaker 1 (43:47):
Your greatest virtue or the greatest virtue not yours. The
greatest virtue is.
Speaker 2 (43:52):
What charity, charity, faith hope and charity charity remains. Yeah,
but I think in the natural order, I think the
virtue we need today and the virtue that and I
need is fortitude.
Speaker 1 (44:05):
Fortitude, Yeah, a good one. What's your greatest regret, Taylor?
What would you do differently?
Speaker 2 (44:12):
You know, I wish I had become Catholic earlier. I
had those inclinations. You know, I was an Anglican Episcopalian,
so I had a kind of a Catholic thinking, and
you know, I wish that I had probably explored it
more or dove into it more earlier on in my life.
I wish I had more time as a Catholic.
Speaker 1 (44:30):
What do you know that other people don't?
Speaker 2 (44:34):
Who? Or what?
Speaker 1 (44:35):
What do you know that other people don't?
Speaker 2 (44:37):
What do I know that other people don't. I think
that a lot of young people don't believe that marriage
can be joyful and good and family can be a
real like spring of joy in life. And I do
(44:59):
know that I've been blessed by God to experience that,
and I want other people to know that. But I
think in our time people are very cynical about that.
Speaker 1 (45:07):
Mm hmm. Yeah, No, they don't realize, particularly young people.
And is where Charlie Kirk was so on the money.
Get married young, have a family. It will give you your purpose.
You will suddenly realize the purpose of all of this,
and your work is revivified, and your focused is revivified,
and and you find love and support and you know
the reason you've been sent here via those children and
(45:30):
your wife. The best piece of advice you've ever received.
Speaker 2 (45:34):
Is what, Well, it's a lot, but one that comes
back to me is my own father. My dad, very
smart man. He said, success is a thousand good decisions.
And I've noticed that in my life. So it's it's
it's not these you know, great monumental things that happen,
it's just those thousand good decisions that add up to
a major win.
Speaker 1 (45:55):
Hmm. That is good advice. That's smart. What's your favorite
book and the last one you read?
Speaker 2 (46:03):
Oh, let's see my favorite book other than the Bible,
if I could take one with me, probably too. I
really like reading Thomas Aquinas, so I put the Sumataelosi
on there. But I also like Mystical City of God
by Maria Agreda. Oh yeah, I keep that on my
nightstand and it calms me, sues me. I like to
read that.
Speaker 1 (46:22):
Why does it soothe you? I mean, it's kind of
this was Maria agreed to sort of visions if you
will us. It's almost the behind the scenes of the scriptures.
She kind of sees in the shadows.
Speaker 2 (46:34):
It's very supernatural. And again, I think it kind of
goes back to my love for our lady. There's just
something very peaceful and see seeing like living human life
at the highest level, the best level, full of grace.
That's our lady. I don't know, I just like it,
you know, I like reading that. And then what was
the other question, what was the last book you read?
(46:56):
The last book I read? Well, it's probably Christian Patrick.
I had to read it so many times. Not your
own book.
Speaker 1 (47:02):
That doesn't count.
Speaker 2 (47:03):
Yeah, that doesn't count. Gosh, I can't we have around here?
Speaker 1 (47:10):
Well, don't look now. If you don't remember, it must
have been so.
Speaker 2 (47:13):
Od It's probably this new book by Jesse Romero and
doctor Dan Schneider, Spiritual Warfare Q and A.
Speaker 1 (47:20):
Oh okay, all right, we'll take that. You know, it's
like the old Dean Martin Drew. I just finished a book.
Now I'm gonna go read another one. If you could
not do what you're doing now, what would you do? Oh?
Speaker 2 (47:33):
You know? My real life is New Saint Thomas Institute
and professors and podcasting. But my secret, sidelfe is I'm
a cattle rancher. And so see those images if you
get out on the weekends and I talk with my
cows and move them from pasture to pasture. And you know,
if I could just run away and do that, I
think I'd probably be pretty happy.
Speaker 1 (47:55):
Oh well, the Marshall Ranch, we will will look forward
to that premiere. Maybe Taylor Sheridan can can start that.
We'll do a whole new It'll be a whole new
Christianized ranch. Saga. What happens when this is over?
Speaker 2 (48:10):
Taylor Marshall, what's over my life?
Speaker 1 (48:14):
I leave these questions up to the interpretation of the
one answering.
Speaker 2 (48:17):
What happens when it's over? Man? I just I hope
that I can somehow skip purgatory. That would be great.
But you know, here here in life, you know, like
I think of my legacy, and I've written twelve books,
and I do all these podcasts and all that, but
I really just hope that my children form families that,
(48:42):
you know, accomplish what we're talking about in the book,
you know, Christian civilization, Christian excellence, loving marriages, high birth rates.
You know, maybe some vocations in there, but I really
my greatest concern would be my legacy would be in
my children.
Speaker 1 (49:02):
M beautiful Taylor Marshall, thank you for being here. The
book Christian Patriot Twelve Ways to Create One Nation Under
God is available everywhere. Thanks. We'll check in again soon.
Speaker 2 (49:13):
Thank you, Raymond.
Speaker 1 (49:14):
Thank you, my friend. I hope you'll come back to
a Royal Grande soon. Why live a dry, constricted life
when if you fill it with good things it can
flow into a broad, thriving a royal Grande. I'm Raymond Arroyo.
Make sure you subscribe like this episode. Thanks for diving in,
and we'll see you next time. Arroyo Grande is produced
in partnership with iHeart Podcasts and Divine Providence Studio, and
(49:36):
is available on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get
your podcast.
Speaker 2 (49:45):
Thank you,
The United States is in such turmoil. The entire world
is how do you restore a nation? And is the
explosion of faith we're seeing among young people. A leading indicator, podcaster,
author Taylor Marshall joins me on this Arroyo Grande. Come on,
(00:25):
I'm rating to Royal Welcome to a Royal Grande. Go
subscribe to the show now. It's a great way to
support the show and it's entirely free. How many things
can you say that about? Turn the notifications on so
you know what's coming. My guest today is a doctor
of philosophy, a former Episcopal priest and a podcaster extraordinary
as well as an author, and he has a new book,
(00:47):
Christian Patriot Twelve Ways to Create One Nation under God.
Doctor Taylor Marshall is here. Taylor, thanks for being here.
I want to start with Charlie Kirk's assassination. I know
you knew Charlie. I was struck talking to students about
the effect this is having on them. For young people,
this is really an RFK MLK moment for them. He
(01:10):
was a huge cultural force and a touchstone in their lives.
What do you think this tragedy represents and where do
we as a country go from here.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
Well, I knew Charlie. And the great thing about Charlie
is he was a real, genuine, friendly young man, but
he was a political leader who put Christ first. If
you listen to any of his debates, any of his speeches,
he's constantly talking about Jesus Christ and you young people,
you know, you should get married and have children and
(01:42):
the importance of the family. And his message was I think,
in many ways different than a lot of the voices
on the right. He was the emerging young class of
influencers who see that being conservative and more and more
conservative is not enough. That Jesus Christ needs to be
at the center of our lives and the center of
(02:03):
our movement. And I think that's one of the reasons
why he captured the heart of so many people, especially
the young people, is he was transitioning the conversation towards
Jesus Christ, and that's his legacy. And it's just so
sad to see it cut off so soon.
Speaker 1 (02:18):
Yeah, this shooter that took Charlie's life was obviously radicalized
in some way. Talk to me about the dangers really
of having these devices on your person that not only
delivers Taylor pernicious ideas and agendas, but then it regurgitates
and repeats them with more frequency because of the algorithm.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
It's the phones, certainly, and it's also I think our
education system. I think those are the one two punches.
You know, so many parents think, I'll just send my
kids to the public school K through twelve. I'll give
them this unlocked iPhone. And there is so much garbage.
It's just toxic waste that's flowing through these phones. You're
not careful with these phones. We really like gab phones
(03:02):
for our younger children to kind of log down and
a little bit more secure. But also we got to
talk about education. This perpetrator seems to have come from
an intact family. I don't know much about them. We're
just getting the news about them. But it doesn't seem
to be a radicalized family. It seems that this young
man received these ideas, these radical ideas, at university. And
(03:25):
that's a conversation we need to have as a nation.
And Charlie Kirk to go back to him. He was
right there on the front lines. He was going to
college campuses. So yes, it's the phone, Yes it's social media,
but we need to have a serious talk about how
young people are being formed on college campuses.
Speaker 1 (03:43):
Well, I agree that it's all of this. Certainly, Charlie
was engaging in you know, in dialogue with kids on campuses.
But they knew im principally because of the TikTok posts
and the ex post where they were seeing these little
skirmishes if you well, where Charlie was engaging. The issues
they were dealing with are questions they had, and he
(04:04):
was doing an a tight, pithy way, you know. Marshall
mccluhan said, the electronic universe, and he was the guy
who came up with really envisioned the Internet, the global village,
and he thought that this electronic universe was an unholy
imposter and I'll quote him, a blatant manifestation of the Antichrist?
(04:26):
Is it, Taylor Marshall?
Speaker 2 (04:29):
You know, it's kind of the conversation you know about
same with AI. You know, like with guns. You know,
guns don't kill people. People kill people. And Charlie Kirk
is someone who used social media and use these platforms
to affect not just millions, tens hundreds of millions. I'm
hearing from people from different countries and we have to.
(04:50):
We don't want to villainize the mechanism, even though the
mechanism is being used for horrible evils and even to
speak of pornography. But Charlie does represent using what is
so dangerous to bring about good, and of course you're
doing the same with the podcast television. We can use
(05:10):
these things for good. Unfortunately, the Devil's God is clause
into most of it. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (05:16):
Well, you know, Charlie, I think had the notion and
I think you and I share it that you have
to redeem the time that we're given. And it's not
enough to complain or rip down or criticize. You have
to actually put things in the middle of the culture
that uplift and challenge and enchant and draw people to
their better angels and who they're really called to be.
(05:38):
Tell me, and there's a good segue, I guess to
your book, Christian Patriot Twelve Ways to Create One Nation
under God? Where are we now? And what's the difference
between Taylor a Christian nationalist, which we hear so much about.
You see the New York Times and the Atlantic Magazine
always warning of Christian nationalism. What's the difference between a
(05:58):
Christian nationalist and a Christian Patriot in your mind.
Speaker 2 (06:03):
I'm glad you asked that question because Christian nationalism is
a growing movement and it's generally Protestant, and I applaud
many of the things that they are saying. They're basically saying,
we need to go back to our Christian roots as
a nation. Now we're Catholics, and we have a two
thousand year treasury of Catholic political philosophy, natural law, sant Augustin,
(06:25):
Thomas Aquinas. We have so much more there. And so
when I was putting this book together, and actually in
the early stages, I was going to call it something
like returning to Christendom or something, and Charlie Kirk who
was like, I don't think that's the right that's not
the right title. So we came up with Christian Patriot.
And the reason the book is called Christian Patriot is,
you know, in my studies, I noticed that Thomas Aquinas
(06:47):
focuses on patriotism as a virtue, and we need to
get back to virtue ethics. Patriotism is love for the
patria and potrio is the Latin word for fatherland. It's
based on pater and when you think about that, and
you think about citizenship and patriotism. It is Thomas Aquina says,
(07:07):
it is honoring your father and mother, it's receiving a patrimony,
another patter word. And if we root it in virtue,
we're now breathing Catholic air. And I wanted to move
this conversation in a more Catholic, a more Tonistic discussion.
And the Christian nationalists are using the word nationalists. Now
(07:29):
people are very quick to identify that with Nazism, but
also the word nationalism is based on the Latin word,
not to it's birth, where you were born, And there's
something more about being a patriot and a citizen than
where you were born. It really should be more like
what Thomas Aquinas talks about. It's loving your patria, it's
loving your fatherland. And so I think that's a subtle
(07:50):
difference between the way Catholics understand things and Protestants understand things.
And I want this book to change the discussion and
get us more into our two thousand year tradition as
opposed to just going back to you know, seventeen seventy
six or the Puritans.
Speaker 1 (08:07):
Taylor, you begin the book with the culture war and
a battle Christians seemed to be losing. Why is that?
And where did things start going wrong in this cultural skirmish?
If you will.
Speaker 2 (08:22):
I mean there's there's several, you know, pivotal moments. But
I think for our nation, United States of America, after
World War One and after World War Two, we came
back and there was this idea, if you have strong beliefs,
if you have strong convictions, dogmas, it's going to lead
to another World War three. And so I think there
was this gentleman's agreement, a subtle one that says, hey,
you know, take all your strong beliefs and put them
(08:45):
in the closet, you know, don't park them in the
public square, and we'll all just be gentlemen. We'll be rational,
we can handshake on this. We'll work for the common good.
You know. That was forties, fifties. Once you get to
the sixties, that created a vacuum where Christianity sort of
treated from the public square. And that vacuum was quickly
filled by in the book I call the new secular religion.
(09:06):
And they claim they're not a religion, but they have
an agenda, they have dogma, they have their own morality,
they have their own inquisition now we call it being canceled.
They have their own Saint's Days, they have their whole
month of June, they have their monuments. They're quickly taking
over the culture. And I think into the eighties and nineties,
you know, maybe we didn't quite notice it, but in
the twenty twenties, it's in our face. Everything is being overturned.
(09:32):
And so you know, part of this book, Christian patriot
Is is we have to take up space again. The
retreat from the public square and the assumption that we
can all be neutral in the political sphere is impossible.
It's christ or chaos.
Speaker 1 (09:47):
I want to read a quote, this is from the book,
and have you elaborate and explain this. You're right, Muslim
countries have Muslim laws, cultures, rules, and customs. Israel has
Jewish laws, culture rule, and customs. India has Hindu laws,
culture rules, and customs. However, for Christian nation with a
(10:07):
Christian majority attempts to promote Christian laws, culture rules, and customs,
it faces strong resistance end quote. But Taylor, the founders
never intended this to be a sectarian nation. I mean,
you know, some read that and think you're arguing for
a Christian theocracy, are you, well, we.
Speaker 2 (10:27):
Have to define the terms Christian theocracy if we want
to be governed in our hearts and as a people
by God. That's one definition of theocracy. But part of
the persuasive, you know, argument of this book is the
separation of church and state has to be reconsidered. Thomas
Jefferson invented that term. In fact, the full phrase of
Thomas Jefferson is the law of separation of Church and State.
(10:51):
It's not the declaration, it's not in the Constitution. And
in the book, I show Thomas Jefferson was a scoundrel.
He consorted, maybe even violated his slave women, and he
wrote the Jefferson Bible. He took the New Testament and
he cut out every miracle, the Resurrection, every single time
Jesus claimed to be the son of God or divine.
(11:12):
He denied the Trinity, he denied the Resurrection. He reduced
Jesus Christ to a guru. And then he puts out
his own New Testament. So we as Christians today need
to realize that Thomas Jefferson is actually to the left
of AOC. Thomas Jefferson is very radical. He supported the
French Revolution and for us to lionize him. And yes,
(11:32):
he did some amazing things for a country, but we
need to kind of surgically go back to our founding
and I think we need to surgically remove Thomas Jefferson.
Men like John Adams and many other founding fathers were excellent,
but Thomas Jefferson has a subversive political philosophy that does
not fit with Catholicism and not with Protestantism either.
Speaker 1 (11:53):
Yeah, but Taylor, I mean the Establishment Clause of the
Constitution says Congress who will make no law respecting an
establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof. But
can you enforce a religious moral code in the US
or via the US Constitution?
Speaker 2 (12:09):
That's the question. You can't enforce or coerce religious belief.
I'm not arguing, and I don't think the Catholic tradition argues,
you know, let's put swords to people's throats and say
be baptized. That's not our tradition. But most certainly America
and all the original thirteen colonies, and even afterwards when
(12:31):
they become states, and for even decades and for some
of them one hundred years, they do endorse for some
of the colonies. You had to when you took an
oath for office. Affirm your belief in the Trinity, affirm
your belief in the Old New Testaments. This is part
of our original founding. And that statement that you read,
this is not separation of church and state. I'm a
(12:54):
member of the state. I'm a citizen. I'm also a
member of the Catholic Church and Raymond. There's no line
that goes through me where it's like, this is the
Catholic side and this is the citizen of America side.
I am both. I'm fully both. And if the nation,
if the Pact, if the Patria is the collection of us,
that division doesn't exist anywhere. There's no division in Raymond,
(13:18):
and there's no division in me. So to say there's
a separation of church and state is ultimately trying to
create a separation in the person.
Speaker 1 (13:25):
Yeah. But Taylor, that letter to the Danbury Baptist I mean,
I know it very well. That letter talking about the
separation of church and state actually referred to keeping the
government out of the affairs of the Danbury Baptist Right.
Speaker 2 (13:37):
Yeah, that's right.
Speaker 1 (13:38):
I've been manipulated. But that's so I mean, and I
kind of agree with you on Jefferson's personal behavior and
his love of revolution, but when it comes to this,
he was actually right.
Speaker 2 (13:49):
Yeah, of course, we don't want the state meddling in
the church, you know, and we don't want the state
of winning our bishops. Absolutely. I mean, there's there was
many interdictions in many wars between popes and emperors or
this very It's how Saint Thomas Beckett died was over
this issue. But the proper integration, and there's different ways
of understanding it and discussing it based on different forms
(14:10):
of government. What we're arguing for in Christian patriot is
there needs to be a true integration of Christianity in
the state. Not Islam. I know this is controversial, not Hindu.
The majority is a Christian state. And if you think
of as John Adams said, and Socrates and Plato and
Aristotle and Augustine and Aquinas, they all said, the nation
(14:33):
is the assembly of the family units of the families.
And John Adams taught this very strictly. If that's who
we are, and we are Christian families, and I have
a cross in my house and we say prayers in
my home if that is the majority to the people,
we should have a cross and we should say Catholic prayers.
That's our tradition. And I know it's controversial, but I
want people to rethink this.
Speaker 1 (14:55):
Well, I know. But the challenge here is it becomes
religion by you know, just expression via majority rule, which
concerns me Frankly. If I happen to live in Dearborn, Michigan,
you know, Raymond with his cross is suddenly outnumbered. Do
I now have to you know, bow down five times
a day like my neighbors. I mean, there is a
(15:16):
there is an inversion of this argument that I worry about, Franklin.
Speaker 2 (15:19):
Yeah, it works with Christianity. It doesn't work when then
we're majority Muslim. And that's one of the things I
discussed in the book is is birth rates and population.
It's a conversation that we need to have because if
Muslims are having four average babies per mother and we're
having two, we lose. It's just simple mathematics. Like you
can talk ideology all day long, but Dearborn Michigan is
(15:41):
coming to your neighborhood over the decades. If we don't
have serious and the first part of the book is
just kind of the philosophy. But the second half of
the book is the twelve steps for how we can
do that.
Speaker 1 (15:51):
Which I'm going to get to, I promise.
Speaker 2 (15:53):
Yeah, this is the conversation that we all need to have,
is is why did we lose society? And then what
can we practice do to reverse this and to create
a beautiful civilization built on the beatitudes.
Speaker 1 (16:07):
Yeah, you're right extensively also in the book about the
evil in Christian Patriot and with the murders of Charlie Kirk,
Irina Zarutzka, the victims of the Minneapolis shooting, evil is
certainly more pronounced and perhaps present than in days gone by.
(16:28):
How does the separation of church and state, in your opinion,
open the door to that evil, or rather the understanding
of the separation of church and state, which has become
a heavily patrolled border that keeps religion out of public affairs.
Speaker 2 (16:44):
Yes. Well, when you look at what makes civilization great,
it's Christianity. It's Jesus Christ. The emergence of hospitals and
universities and orphanages and civil rights, all of that comes
not just from Western civilization. It comes from Christianity. And
we see that really since the fifteen hundreds, but intensely
in the eighteen hundreds and nineteen hundreds. The more nations
(17:07):
move away from Christ, the worst they become. And it's
in all measures, divorce, birth rates, all the demographics. And
so that's the conversation that we need to have. Do
you want to live in a better society or a
worse society? And the better societies, it's historically proven, are
the Christian societies, because Jesus is the logos, He is
(17:28):
the order of human society.
Speaker 1 (17:30):
Human interaction is what they're going forward. Taylor, akin to
what Richard Dawkins said in recent days where you're having
you really are having a clash of cultures in the UK,
and Dawkins a about atheists, says, I would prefer to
live in a Christian society then the one that I
(17:51):
find myself in now.
Speaker 2 (17:52):
Not only atheists like Dawkins, but Muslims. Where do Muslims
want to live? They want to live here, They want
to experience what Christianity and Christian civilization has built all people.
There's Indians, Hindu Indians streaming into our country right now.
They want to be here too. Everyone wants to be
and They want to go to Europe too, even though
(18:13):
Europe is starting to crumble. Everyone, no matter what their religion, Atheist, Muslim, Hindu,
they want to come here. And the reason is is
we still have the fundamentals, the basis of what makes
a good society, but we are losing it. And I
don't think we've lost it. I talk about that in
the book. The fact that we're still being attacked, the
(18:33):
fact that what happened to Charlie, God bless his soul
this week, shows that we still have strength. They're still
fighting us, They're still attacking us.
Speaker 1 (18:43):
There is a new pope in rome Leo the fourteenth.
I know you've been covering this extensively. He is a
member of the Augustinian Order. And you mention both Saint
Augustine and Thomas Aquinas extensively in this book. How do
those two schools have thought, twine in your reasoning here?
And why are they important for the layman who perhaps
(19:05):
has never encountered either of them.
Speaker 2 (19:07):
Sure? Yeah, And in the very last minute before press,
I actually rewrote a section based on some of the
things that Popeli of the fourteenth as stated regarding family
in the state. But yeah, there I think Augustine and
Aquinas are are an agreement. Augustine wrote a monumental, huge
book called City of God, and it's his theology of
understanding the relationship and sometimes the friction between the City
(19:31):
of God, the Kingdom of God, and the city of Man,
which is corrupted by original sin. And that's that is
the magnum opus of political philosophy by Sant Augustine, and
it sets the course for the rest of Catholicism even
to this day. And Thomas Aquinas very much builds upon that.
Of course, Thomas Aquinas brings in a lot more of
an Aristotelian and a natural law with us to this,
(19:55):
not that it wasn't there in Augustine. And so we
have this, we have this tradition, we have this, this wealth,
we have a box full of treasure. And I don't
know if Catholics in America, I think it's probably because
it's a Protestant majority nation and we've kind of kept
our heads down and kind of just tried to fit
in a little bit. But I think we have a
great gift to give to culture. And I was talking
(20:15):
to Charlie Kirk and he said, he says, basically I'm
seeing more and more that the thought leaders and the
people with the strongest conviction are the Catholics. He told
me that, he told me that on camera we were live,
and I think the world was seeing that. And I
think that's because we're coming from a position of strength
(20:36):
in our political Our experience is not just America. Our
experience is every single nation that was part of Christendom,
the good and the bad, the ugly, and we have
all of this to build on. And I think one
of the great things about Pope Leo the fourteenth is
he said he chose his name from Pope Leo the thirteenth,
and he's already been citing Rerem Navarum, which is something
I cite in this book as well. And so it's
(20:59):
encouraging to see that Pope Leo the fourteenth, at least
on the social issues and the political issues, is drawing
on Pope Leo the thirteenth and rare no of arm
because that's a very important document for Catholics and another
gift I think that we could give to the world.
Speaker 1 (21:13):
Yeah, and this is the foundation of Catholic social teaching
really and certainly in the modern age. What in your
estimation is the proper form of government? Taylor Marshall, how
do you see that looking? I mean, you know, you
have civil government based on God's establishment of traditional family.
I mean, is that what you're really going after here?
Speaker 2 (21:33):
The most important thing is the recognition of matrimony in
the family. And at the Reformation they demoted marriage as
not a sacrament. That's a big problem that was really
I think that the crumbling of you know, Christendom or
Western civilization. You know, Pope Leo and even Thomas Aquinas
actually show some latitude on what is the best or
(21:56):
you know, forms of government. And Robert Bellerman actually writes
a lot about this as well. He actually talks about
a mixed government, and Thomas does as well. So you know,
there's not a dogmatic teaching of the Catholic Church on
what is the best form of government. But I think
if you look at it traditionally and since the time
of Constantine, there has been a Catholic tendency towards monarchy,
(22:18):
of favoring a monarchy because of the integration of the
monarchy and the nobility in working in conjunction with the bishops,
because the bishops are also a hierarchical structure. So I
think that's maybe the most the most natural. But we
don't live in a moment right now where we can
say rah rah, you know, Christian monarchy. But I think
that is that's kind of the majority position in the
(22:40):
Catholic Church. But there have been Catholic republics and there
could be Catholic republics again. So in the book, I
don't really go into the form of government. It's really
more of what do we need to be as a
society to foster human excellence, you know, living the beatitudes.
Speaker 1 (22:56):
Yeah, I have a I'm thinking of an old acting
teacher of mine who used to say, I would love
to live in a monarchy, so long as I could
be the monarchy, you know, and that's it, which I yeah, Okay.
In your book, layout really a twelve step program of
sorts to get back to this idea of one nation
under God. As the subtitle implies, let's talk about a
(23:17):
few of those you mentioned. Christ in the Soul and
to take up public space for Christ. Those two are
really related. Tell me what those related strategies mean practically.
Speaker 2 (23:31):
Well, the first strategy is Christ and the Soul, and
it's a crash course in Catholic you know, conversion, and
this book is written for a general audience. I really
hope Protestants will read this book. In fact, if you
know Protestants and you kind of want to get them
attracted to Catholicism, I think this book is great because
they'll be reading it like Wow, Augustin said that, and
the Pope said, Pope Leo said this, and Thomas Aquinas
(23:53):
said this. There's a lot of just sort of fireworks
that go off in this book, and I think Protestants
will be attracted to But I wanted the Protestants to
know and Catholics to know that, you know, we can
do all these things and talk about policies and changes
and social you know, active activization and all these things.
But if you're not converted in the soul, if you
(24:14):
don't have sanctifying grace, if you're not living a sacramental life,
if you're not in daily prayer, if you're not forming
your marriage and your children around Christ, none of this matters.
You know, it'll just be a hollow structure. We actually
have to be filled with the Holy Spirit, and so
I talk about, you know, what that means, and how
to be close to Christ. And then you said, take
(24:36):
up space is the next one. We used to be
great at this, you know, processions and parades and statues,
and you know, you go to Italy, you go to Poland,
you go to France. There's the Blessed Mother on the corner,
and Saint Michael and Padre Pio and Saint you know, Joseph.
They took up space. They decorated their society as an
(24:58):
outward expression of the interior reality of what they believed.
And we see the new secular religion in the last
twenty years has gone out. They're reading to kids at
the public library, They're marching down Main Street during June.
They're putting their flag on every embassy, every government building.
They are taking up space. And when you take up space,
(25:20):
what you're saying is our beliefs, our ideology are triumphant,
and we own this. That's why they're reading at the library,
at your public library, and that's why they're pushing it
in your schools. We own the public space, we own
the political sphere. And Catholics from the very beginning have
been public witnesses through martyrdom, but also just by the
(25:42):
way they honor their culture and say Christ is King,
Mary's the queen and they put up things, and so
you know, everyone can do this. You can put a
statue of the Virgin Mary out in front of your house,
so you can put a crucifix in your room. These
are the kind of things that start small, but they
snowball into a cultural transformation.
Speaker 1 (26:02):
Your other twelve steps, and we're going to do the
reader's digestive them because I got so much I need
to get to. But they're really policy prescriptions to my eye,
from parental rights for kids to outlawing porn. What's the
most critical in your mind?
Speaker 2 (26:17):
The most critical is personal conversion and being filled with
grace and knowing Christ. But I think that the very
the most critical is defining matrimony. That's if we don't
get that one right, we lose it all. Because matrimony
is what protects the family. It ensures that a child
(26:37):
from infancy until adulthood. Thomas Aquina says, you know the
goal of matrimony is procreation and education, rearing the child.
Anybody can be a baby mom or a baby daddy,
but it's that teaching them, catechizing them, making them virtuous,
teaching them virtue, teaching them, getting the sacraments, and so
if we have matrimony as a sacrament operly defined. God
(27:02):
invented matrimony at creation Genesis. He elevated it to a
sacrament at the wedding of Kana. He decides what matrimony is.
A quorum of twelve men cannot decide the definition of marriage.
A judge cannot define that. The Senate cannot define what
marriage is. And we, as Christian Zena, say no, God
define marriage. It's a very specific definition. If we can't
(27:26):
define marriage, we can't define what is a man, what
is a woman? When does life begin? When does life end?
That I think is the pivotal definition, and I think
we have to fight for that because everything below that,
you know, banning pornography and you know parental rights, all
of those flow really from the sanctity of matrimony.
Speaker 1 (27:51):
I want to jump back a little bit to a
previous book because I got this question this week. Somebody
friend of mine he had just read your Christian Patriarch book,
and they said they were confused, and they said, wait,
Taylor Marshall wrote this book called Infiltration, where he claimed
there was a plot to undermine the Catholic Church from
within now he's asking us to turn to the Catholic Church.
(28:13):
It's been somehow infiltrated. What hard evidence would you convince
skeptics of this idea that you put forward in the book,
that this isn't just a conspiracy but actually a historical infiltration.
Speaker 2 (28:29):
Yeah, if you look at the scandals we've had, not
just in two thousand and two, but before then and
since then, and you look at the ambiguity and the
confusion of doctrine where the majority of Catholics in this
country do not believe in the real presence transubstantiation. You
look at the rapid decline in vocation just hard facts,
(28:50):
vocations of the priesthood to the religious life, the decline
in marriages, the decline in infant baptisms, the decline in
adult baptisms, the increase in annulments. Like, there is so
much evidence that something is broken. Something is broken, And
I don't believe that the Holy Spirit ever stopped working.
I don't believe Jesus stopped being the king and the
(29:10):
leader of the Catholic Church. So that means that there's
something else that is causing problems in the kind and
it's not the Church. The Catholic Church is one holy
Catholic and Apostolic. That means that there must be wolves
in sheep's clothing, and Jesus promised they would come. He said,
beware of wolves in sheep's clothing. He said, beware of
false prophets. He promised us that there would be judas scariots,
(29:33):
there would be false prophets. It's in the Gospel. He
says it's going to happen. So to say that it's
not happening. There are no wolves, there are no false prophets,
there are no false brethren. It goes against the words
of Jesus Christ, and it goes against what we actually
see in twenty twenty five.
Speaker 1 (29:49):
And you in the book you imply more than imply.
You point the finger at the Freemasons, Okay, which popes
have warned about through the last century, really even before that.
But the founding of these guilts, My question is do
you think those Freemasons have that kind of enduring power
in the present day. I mean, I pulled a stat
(30:12):
on this the other day. NPR had a report that
membership in the US among Freemasons has fallen from nineteen
fifty nine by seventy five percent. I mean they're opening
their doors to tours trying to get people to come
to the lodge. Do you really think they have that
kind of power influence, authority and membership today?
Speaker 2 (30:29):
Absolutely not. And I say that in the book Infiltration
that you have to understand Freemasonry when it begins in
seventeen seventeen. It's a secret society. Why is it a
secret society because if you said these kind of disruptive
things in public, you would actually be killed in the
seventeen hundreds eighteen hundreds, so they were in secret societies.
What they taught and what they promoted in the Freemason
(30:50):
which is the civil liberties that are not based in
God right and basically a proto communism, They couldn't say
that back then. By the time you get into the
late eighteen hundreds and the fall of the Papal States,
and you get into the nineteen hundreds in post World
War Two, you don't have to be a Freemason, you
don't have to be a member, you don't have to
(31:11):
be in a secret society. They teach it in the
freshman class at the university, right, they teach it on
Oprah like the Gnostic worldview of Freemasonry becomes mainstream. So
of course freemasonry in twenty twenty five is dead. It's
kind of a joke because you don't have to be
in a secret society. It's not a secret, it is mainstream.
So yeah, Freemasonry I think is a very It's still
(31:34):
very dangerous, but its power and its potency and its
infection was really in the seventeen hundreds, eighteen hundreds. By
the time we're in the Second World War situation, I
think it kind of starts becoming the air we breathe
by the nineteen sixties.
Speaker 1 (31:51):
Tell me about your journey. I mean we met you
were I think you were you had left Episcopalianism, but
you were an Episcopal priest. What was it that tipped
you over the edge and drew you to Catholicism.
Speaker 2 (32:08):
Yeah, you know, I was an Episcopalian priest and I
did a lot of pro life work. And we would
go on Thursdays, we'd have our version of Mass Holy Communion,
and we would go to the Planned Parenthood and we
would pray, and there was always like seven or eight Episcopealians,
but there's like twenty five thirty Catholics and they were
praying the Rosary, and there's a priest there. I got
to know them, and I remember just they were much
(32:29):
more intense than we were. I remember seeing this lady.
She was kind of middle aged, and she was very
well to do, and she was kneeling in the gravel
praying the Rosary, and I was like, she believes, like
she's a real disciple of Jesus, you know. And that
was that witness was very attractive to me. And then
as an Episcopalian, I started getting pushedback from my congregation
about being so pro life. They're like, hey, don't be
(32:51):
so political about this. And I started to realize that
as an Episcopalian priest, I didn't have the authority. I
didn't have the magisterium. I didn't have the toolbox to
be authentically pro life and defend what I truly believed.
And in the meantime, you know, my wife's watching Mother
Angelica and watching EWTN or having these conversations, and really
(33:12):
it came. We went to Rome and we were invited
to a mass with Pope Bend the sixteenth. In that morning,
we had been in the Scavi and seeing Saint Peter's
bones and During that mass, Raymond, I was standing right
by the bronze statue of Saint Peter. It came time
for communion in the I was wearing a clerical car
and I was wearing episcopal priestthood clothes, and these nuns
were trying to push me up padre Pridy to go
(33:33):
to communion. And I knew I couldn't receive communion because
I wasn't Catholic. And I'll tell you, Raymond, some people
don't believe me when I say this, but I was
sick to my stomach because I looked up there and
I thought Peter's down there under the altar. Pope Benedict,
successor of Peter's right there. This is the real church,
and I'm not in it. And I knew. I knew
(33:54):
I was a heretic, and I knew I was a
sismatic in that moment, and I knew that if I
didn't try to enter the church, i'd go to help.
That was my conversion.
Speaker 1 (34:02):
Why not join the ordinary? And for those who don't know,
Pope Benedict the sixteenth created would say free floating diocese,
if you will, for Anglican clerics to come into full
communion with the Catholic Church, but they would they're ordained
and become priests essentially in the Catholic Church.
Speaker 2 (34:22):
I was in that process, and I think when I
met you in Washington, d C. I was working at
the CIC there and part of my job is I
was helping with the correspondence with the Vatican to set
up what became the Anglican Ordinary. And I was on
track to be ordained a Catholic priest even though I
was married, because the provision applied to me. But you know,
as I, as I discerned and prayed and got to
know the Catholic priesthood, I just felt that I wasn't
(34:45):
being called to that, that I was called to be
a layman. And so even though I was in the process,
I you know, I was made a candidate for orders
and a lay eucharistic minister, and they, you know, they
were trying to get me through. It's kind of a
to your process. I just discerned, I don't think this
is where God's calling me, and he had another plan
(35:05):
for me.
Speaker 1 (35:06):
So yeah. Also, well, the Vatican continues taylor to restrict
the Latin Mass, the traditional Latin Mass, and we've covered
this for years. I do it here on the prayerful posse.
My question is, why does that liturgy matter so much
now in this cultural moment. Some will say from the outside,
(35:28):
this is really just a matter of preference, and you know,
you people are clinging to the past.
Speaker 2 (35:34):
You would say what I'd say, this is our patrimony,
this is our inheritance. And if you look at the
young people, I mean, I go to the traditional land mass.
I went yesterday, it's young people. Yes, there's all ages there,
but there's something that's attracting the young people because you know,
they have these cell phones, they have Netflix, they have
constant stream, they have constant just energy and noise all
(35:58):
around them. And I think when they enter into the
traditional Latin mass, I think something just clicks for them.
And I've I've we have eight kids, I've I've watched
them raise and they're they're kind of the same way.
I think there's there's something perennial and there's something beautiful
about it. And I think, you know, the older generation
in the hierarchy, you know, like Pope Francis's age, you know,
(36:21):
and that that kind of Popely of the fourteenth is
a little bit younger but I think the age of
of of Pope Francis, God Rest his soul, they kind
of see the Latin Masses like grandma's old couch, like
it was great, we have good memories about it. It's
kind of old. Let's get something new, you know, let's
go to Ikea and let's you know, get something that
the youth are gonna love it. But there's something that's
(36:43):
just that's just so beautiful and grounded in the traditional
Latin Mass. And I've experienced in my own life. I
think I can honestly say the traditional Latin Mass, and
I don't deny that the Novus Ordo is valid and
or real, but the traditional Latin Mass it draws me
closer to Jesus. And you know, I think it's it's
something that's very attractive and it's not going away. You know,
(37:06):
like we've been decades and decades fighting this silly battle
over this liturgy. Just let the liturgy be free.
Speaker 1 (37:13):
Well, it was free under Propendict I mean under Pope Benedict.
He liberated the old right and said, well, you know what,
We're going to have the traditional Latin Mass live aside
the New Mass, and it's going to live side by
side in every parish. Whatever the priest wants to do,
it's up to him, and that worked beautifully. There was
no problems, there were no wars in the parish. Granny
(37:34):
wasn't hitting the young kids who were on their way
into the Latin Mass. Everybody went about their lives and
they had a great time. If anything, I would argue
that period sacrilzed the New Right. It changed and transformed
the New Right. So now you're priests offering the new
Right facing east, which is the traditional posture of the
Mass in the traditional Latin mask.
Speaker 2 (37:56):
I don't think there was anything wrong with it. And
the pastoral experience was positive. And there's that kind of
scandal with Diane Montagna where Pope Francis when he issued
the restrictions, he said, well, I consulted the bishops and
it's been a negative experience, so I'm forced to move
my hand. And then Diane Montagna, you know, with the
protocol numbers provides the document and the bishops the summary
(38:18):
is it's like so positive and vocations and young people
and the parish life is wholesome. So I really I
think our heads are still kind of spinning here. What
happened when Pope Francis restricted to the traditional Latin Mass because
he said he consulted bishops and it was very negative.
And then we have the actual document and it's very positive.
(38:38):
And I think Pope Leo the fourteenth has a tremendous
opportunity here. I think even this year, if he could
to say, hey, we're going to free thee. Let's not
have the liturgy wars, let's free things up. If you
want the traditional Latin Mass, you can have the traditional
Latin Mass. It doesn't mean you're a bad person or schismatics.
It is what it is.
Speaker 1 (38:57):
Yeah, my gut is people will be waiting for while
for that. Really, you're raising eight children in a hypersecular culture.
Like everybody else. What's working, What's what's not working?
Speaker 2 (39:11):
Oh, let's see what's working, you know. I think another thing,
and I talked about this in the book, is education.
I know a lot of us, our family included, and
other families have tried public school. Maybe get a chance.
But I think we're at the point in twenty twenty five,
even in the most conservative school districts, the amount of influence,
you know, from the culture, but also from the teacher
(39:33):
in the administration I think we're at a moment now
where it's imperative for homeschooling or good Catholic schools. Not
all Catholic schools are the same because you know, they're
spending so much time there and the friendships and the
sports and everything they do. We've just seen as parents
that you know, doing a solid homeschool program or being
(39:53):
in a real Our kids are in a really good, conservative,
private Catholic school. It's night and day. I think it's
really important. And then I think also just your children
need to see that you believe these things. And a
big part of our families we do Rosary every night,
doesn't matter how late it is, how tied year is,
we do the Rosary, and that is just a reminder
(40:16):
that this is what matters to us. We pray the Rosary.
We're Catholic. We need to pray every day. It's hard
to pray every day, it's hard to find time. The
bare minimum we can do is pray the Rosary. So
I would say, pray the Rosary. You're not on the team,
get the beads out, get the kids leading the decades.
You got to pray that Rosary. And I think the
Latin Mass also is beneficial for young people.
Speaker 1 (40:37):
Yeah. No, it's supernatural. The supernatural mystery of it is tangible.
That's what's drawing the young. They're like children. You know,
when children see something, they're not superficial. Children are not superficial.
I talk to a lot of kids because of my
children's books. I go to schools often. You can't fool
(40:58):
a child to it reality because they're so fresh, if
you will, they haven't been jaded. And I think if
you when they when young people and children walk into
a Latin mass, they're seeing and sensing the reality that
frankly some adults have talked themselves out of. And it's
a supernatural reality, that's what That's what they're picking up.
And I've always thought it's like a tractor beam. You
(41:20):
can watch them, you know, you can almost watch them
transform in it too. But that's for another day. Okay,
I've got to get to the Royal Grande Questionnaire. I
ask everybody these questions in some variety. These are quick answers, Taylor,
I don't want you to think deeply. You ready, ready,
who's the person you most admire.
Speaker 2 (41:39):
Blessed Virgin Mary?
Speaker 1 (41:40):
Oh? Why?
Speaker 2 (41:42):
I mean, she's the mother of God. She's all pure.
I mean, I mean Jesus Christ, I mean, he's father, son,
holy ghost. But I think in created humans, the Blessed Mother.
I mean, I just have I have a picture right here.
I just have peace when I pray the Rosary when
I'm stressed, you know. And yeah, she's the Queen of peace.
So definitely the Blessed Mother.
Speaker 1 (42:03):
Who's the person you're most despise?
Speaker 2 (42:07):
Mmm. I want to play it easy and say the devil.
But I think right now, because of the work I've
been doing on Christian Patriot, I think in America, Thomas Jefferson,
I've really I did a deep diye on him, and
I'm really concerned about Thomas Jefferson.
Speaker 1 (42:23):
Oh boy, you're not. You don't want to be in
the room where it happened. Okay, we're gonna We're gonna
keep you off the Monticello tour. What what is your
best feature?
Speaker 2 (42:34):
What do you mean, physically or totally up to you?
Speaker 1 (42:37):
Totally up to you? Uh.
Speaker 2 (42:40):
I think my my gift is is that I'm able
to take complicated ideas like p tomism, whatever and present
them in a in a tangible way for for your
everyday man.
Speaker 1 (42:52):
What's your worst feature, be honest, Taylor, I think.
Speaker 2 (43:00):
Probably a melancholy or a discouragement or despair, like in
this last week with the Charlie Kirk thing. It's hard,
I think, and even maybe in a way that's a
fault to kind of lose hope a little bit.
Speaker 1 (43:15):
Well, it's hard when a young person is taken, you know.
I mean it's it's you know, and struck down in
such a vivid, awful, you know, immediate way, and under
those circumstances in the middle of their journey, I mean
really in the middle of what he was doing. Yeah,
I understand why you would despair. Well, what do you fear?
Speaker 2 (43:36):
My greatest fear would probably be for my children, that
anything would happen to them, or that they would lose
the faith or Yeah.
Speaker 1 (43:47):
Your greatest virtue or the greatest virtue not yours. The
greatest virtue is.
Speaker 2 (43:52):
What charity, charity, faith hope and charity charity remains. Yeah,
but I think in the natural order, I think the
virtue we need today and the virtue that and I
need is fortitude.
Speaker 1 (44:05):
Fortitude, Yeah, a good one. What's your greatest regret, Taylor?
What would you do differently?
Speaker 2 (44:12):
You know, I wish I had become Catholic earlier. I
had those inclinations. You know, I was an Anglican Episcopalian,
so I had a kind of a Catholic thinking, and
you know, I wish that I had probably explored it
more or dove into it more earlier on in my life.
I wish I had more time as a Catholic.
Speaker 1 (44:30):
What do you know that other people don't?
Speaker 2 (44:34):
Who? Or what?
Speaker 1 (44:35):
What do you know that other people don't?
Speaker 2 (44:37):
What do I know that other people don't. I think
that a lot of young people don't believe that marriage
can be joyful and good and family can be a
real like spring of joy in life. And I do
(44:59):
know that I've been blessed by God to experience that,
and I want other people to know that. But I
think in our time people are very cynical about that.
Speaker 1 (45:07):
Mm hmm. Yeah, No, they don't realize, particularly young people.
And is where Charlie Kirk was so on the money.
Get married young, have a family. It will give you your purpose.
You will suddenly realize the purpose of all of this,
and your work is revivified, and your focused is revivified,
and and you find love and support and you know
the reason you've been sent here via those children and
(45:30):
your wife. The best piece of advice you've ever received.
Speaker 2 (45:34):
Is what, Well, it's a lot, but one that comes
back to me is my own father. My dad, very
smart man. He said, success is a thousand good decisions.
And I've noticed that in my life. So it's it's
it's not these you know, great monumental things that happen,
it's just those thousand good decisions that add up to
a major win.
Speaker 1 (45:55):
Hmm. That is good advice. That's smart. What's your favorite
book and the last one you read?
Speaker 2 (46:03):
Oh, let's see my favorite book other than the Bible,
if I could take one with me, probably too. I
really like reading Thomas Aquinas, so I put the Sumataelosi
on there. But I also like Mystical City of God
by Maria Agreda. Oh yeah, I keep that on my
nightstand and it calms me, sues me. I like to
read that.
Speaker 1 (46:22):
Why does it soothe you? I mean, it's kind of
this was Maria agreed to sort of visions if you
will us. It's almost the behind the scenes of the scriptures.
She kind of sees in the shadows.
Speaker 2 (46:34):
It's very supernatural. And again, I think it kind of
goes back to my love for our lady. There's just
something very peaceful and see seeing like living human life
at the highest level, the best level, full of grace.
That's our lady. I don't know, I just like it,
you know, I like reading that. And then what was
the other question, what was the last book you read?
(46:56):
The last book I read? Well, it's probably Christian Patrick.
I had to read it so many times. Not your
own book.
Speaker 1 (47:02):
That doesn't count.
Speaker 2 (47:03):
Yeah, that doesn't count. Gosh, I can't we have around here?
Speaker 1 (47:10):
Well, don't look now. If you don't remember, it must
have been so.
Speaker 2 (47:13):
Od It's probably this new book by Jesse Romero and
doctor Dan Schneider, Spiritual Warfare Q and A.
Speaker 1 (47:20):
Oh okay, all right, we'll take that. You know, it's
like the old Dean Martin Drew. I just finished a book.
Now I'm gonna go read another one. If you could
not do what you're doing now, what would you do? Oh?
Speaker 2 (47:33):
You know? My real life is New Saint Thomas Institute
and professors and podcasting. But my secret, sidelfe is I'm
a cattle rancher. And so see those images if you
get out on the weekends and I talk with my
cows and move them from pasture to pasture. And you know,
if I could just run away and do that, I
think I'd probably be pretty happy.
Speaker 1 (47:55):
Oh well, the Marshall Ranch, we will will look forward
to that premiere. Maybe Taylor Sheridan can can start that.
We'll do a whole new It'll be a whole new
Christianized ranch. Saga. What happens when this is over?
Speaker 2 (48:10):
Taylor Marshall, what's over my life?
Speaker 1 (48:14):
I leave these questions up to the interpretation of the
one answering.
Speaker 2 (48:17):
What happens when it's over? Man? I just I hope
that I can somehow skip purgatory. That would be great.
But you know, here here in life, you know, like
I think of my legacy, and I've written twelve books,
and I do all these podcasts and all that, but
I really just hope that my children form families that,
(48:42):
you know, accomplish what we're talking about in the book,
you know, Christian civilization, Christian excellence, loving marriages, high birth rates.
You know, maybe some vocations in there, but I really
my greatest concern would be my legacy would be in
my children.
Speaker 1 (49:02):
M beautiful Taylor Marshall, thank you for being here. The
book Christian Patriot Twelve Ways to Create One Nation Under
God is available everywhere. Thanks. We'll check in again soon.
Speaker 2 (49:13):
Thank you, Raymond.
Speaker 1 (49:14):
Thank you, my friend. I hope you'll come back to
a Royal Grande soon. Why live a dry, constricted life
when if you fill it with good things it can
flow into a broad, thriving a royal Grande. I'm Raymond Arroyo.
Make sure you subscribe like this episode. Thanks for diving in,
and we'll see you next time. Arroyo Grande is produced
in partnership with iHeart Podcasts and Divine Providence Studio, and
(49:36):
is available on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get
your podcast.
Speaker 2 (49:45):
Thank you,
Host
Raymond Arroyo
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