Pope Leo XIV's Path to the Papacy: The Inside Story | Arroyo Grande

He was the dark horse no one saw coming. Now, Cardinal Robert Prevost is Pope Leo XIV—the first American ever elected to the papacy. In this special edition of Arroyo Grande, we go inside the conclave that shocked the world.

Veteran Vatican journalist Diane Montagna joins us to reveal what really happened in the Sistine Chapel—from backroom maneuvering to the quiet rise of a little-known cardinal. We also explore what Leo’s Creole roots in New Orleans and his years in Peru might mean for the future of the Church.

In the second half, the Conclave Crew returns. Fr. Gerald Murray and Robert Royal sit down with Raymond to unpack the new pope’s first moves, the meaning behind his name, and what his election signals about the road ahead.

🔔 Subscribe for more: Arroyo Grande is available on YouTube, Apple Podcasts, iHeart, and wherever you listen, watch & stream.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
He was the dark horse candidate who became Pope. Cardinal
Robert Privost is now Leo the fourteenth. On this week's show,
we take him behind the scenes of the conclave that
elected the first American pope with a Vatican expert and
the conclave crew explains what this pope could do next.
Come on, I'm raim An Arroyo. Welcome to Royal Grande Gho.

(00:33):
Subscribe and turn those notifications on. I don't want you
to miss an episode or any of the specials we
have come in.

Speaker 2 (00:40):
We've got a lot coming your way.

Speaker 1 (00:41):
The world was stunned when the first American Pope, Leo
the fourteenth appeared on the Lojia at Saint Peter's. He
was not among the top candidates going into the conclave.

Speaker 3 (00:52):
For the moments that may have led to his election.
I'm joined now by Vaticanista, co author of the College
of Cardinals Reports, one of the best Vatican journalists in
the city, Diane Montga. Diane, thank you so much for
being here. Tell me about the state of this College
of Cardinals before they went into the conflict. What were
their biggest concerns, What were they telling?

Speaker 4 (01:13):
Well, I think that the biggest well, one of the
biggest concerns actually was that we did they didn't know
one another. So you know, the viewers should keep in
mind that Pope Francis had appointed most of the cardinals
in his twelve year pontificate. He appointed them from countries
all over the world, not the traditional seas like perhaps
Milan or Los Angeles, but from many unknown places. So really,

(01:36):
going in, you had many cardinals who had recently been
appointed that this was their first conclave and they didn't
really know one another.

Speaker 3 (01:46):
Tell me about the progressive and traditional cardinal candidates going in, yeah,
I mean, you know, lay out who the who the
main candidates were of each block. I hate the word
conservative and liberal, their progressives in their traditional they all
basically believe the same thing. It's just really tonality and
what they mean to do within the church.

Speaker 4 (02:06):
Yes, well, I mean, clearly, going in, I would say
that the leading progressive candidate was probably the former Vatican
Secretary of State, Cardinal Pietro Perolin. And he in fact
because the Dean of the College of Cardinals, Cardinal Rey
was I believe he's over ninety years old, so he
couldn't actually enter the conclave. So you had Cardinal Perolin

(02:27):
going in as not only the leading candidate for the left,
but also as running the conclave itself. You had other
names on the left mentioned like the Filipino cardinal Cardinal Tagle.
You had Cardinal Aveline from France who was among the
leading candidates for the left. You had someone like Cardinal

(02:47):
Zupi who perhaps you know, it was said he didn't
have too much of a chance, but he's he's if
they wanted to return the pontificate to Italy, he may
have been seen as a leading candidate.

Speaker 3 (02:58):
And I know traditionalists wanted Cardinal Erdo, Cardinal Sarah, but
they it looks like those candidacies were never really got
off the ground because their numbers were so tiny.

Speaker 4 (03:09):
Yes, well, I think they had. Actually I think probably
what happened was they wanted Erdo. He was sort of
their leading candidate. I believe Cardinal Ranji from what I'm hearing,
we're seeing perhaps as a as a compromise candidate for
the more conservative wing of the college. And then Cardinal
Pizzabala was certainly in the running. I have heard quite

(03:30):
a bit of what actually went on and how we
got prevost, how the voting went if you'd like to, you.

Speaker 3 (03:38):
Know, yeah, let's get that's our That's called a cliffhanger. Diane.
I love that you did that. Okay, let's keep the
cliffhanger because I want to build to that. Contrary to
the internet, though, there's a couple of storylines we need
to blow up that are all over the internet. Yes,
the heroic Cardinal Josephson of Hong Kong, ninety four year old,
traveled to the conflict, and it was spread about that

(03:58):
he had come to raise his against Cardinal Pietro Perline
that leading progressive candidate, the Secretary of State Caroline was
also the author of the Chinese Vatican deal that Cardinal
Zen so abhors. He's watched his people destroyed by it
and the faithful in China. But he didn't speak on
that issue at the General Congregation. Who did tell us?

Speaker 5 (04:19):
Who did?

Speaker 4 (04:20):
Yes? Well, Cardinal Zen first to say, why wouldn't Cardinal
En speak about the Vatican China Deal. Why wouldn't he
name Cardinal Perlin, which in what he has said publicly,
he's done so much damage to the Chinese Church, to
Chinese Catholics. Why because if that got back to the CCP,

(04:40):
he could potentially have been imprisoned for that.

Speaker 3 (04:43):
And my.

Speaker 4 (04:45):
Guesses and my sources say that Cardinal Perolin also knew
coming in that Cardinal Zen was not really able to
speak against him, because even though you know, even though
secrecy surrounds to some extent the gener Congregations and certainly
the Conclave, the CCP could have a way to find

(05:05):
out through perhaps this cardinal or that cardinal, or even
Cardinal Perolin, which if he wished to retaliate, not saying
that he would want to do that against Cardinal z En,
but if he did, and if he prevented him from
being Pope because of it, it certainly was a possibility.

Speaker 3 (05:21):
Yeah, I was told that it was Cardinal Raymond Burke.
In the last days of the General Congregation, it fell
to him to speak out against the Vatican China deal
in Peraline's involvement there, So interesting from what was widely
reported and what actually happen.

Speaker 4 (05:37):
Yes, no, it certainly, and I have heard and have
it on very good sources. Then, in fact, Cardinal Raymond
Burke did speak up on the last day against Cardinal Peralin,
specifically naming him by name, and against the Vatican China
secret accord.

Speaker 3 (05:54):
And then released a transcript of his address, And I
mean mostly it mostly concerned his focus on Pope Francis's
democratization of the church, this cinidality model, but the new pope.
Interestingly enough, he mentioned cinidality in those general congregations when
Parolene didn't. Do you think that was deliberate?

Speaker 4 (06:15):
Huh, that's a good question. It seems to me in
these initial days that Pope Leo the fourteenth, previously Cardinal Prevost,
has been extremely good at unifying everyone. He's speaking of
Pope Francis, he's quoting him, but not quotes that would
bother more traditional Catholics. He's speaking about snidality, but we

(06:37):
have to wait to see what he means by cinidality.
This is a new pontificate. He's certainly a very different
man in terms of his temperament, the way he's dressing,
the way he's acting. The blessing we just had, and
maybe you'll want to get to this, but he had
an audience with journalists today. He gave the bless He
gave a blessing in Latin to the journalists at the

(06:58):
end which twelve years ago, Pope Francis did not do,
he said to the journalist twelve years ago, because some
of you are not Catholic or not believers. I'll just
pray for you in my heart. Well, today Pope Leo
the fourteenth gave us all his blessing and everyone seemed
very happy about it. It was really a very good event.

Speaker 3 (07:18):
No, No, it's a big department. We're seeing a big
shift to the middle at least and probably just back
to Catholic tradition, you know, to take the politics out
of it. But there's another canarda I need to expose,
and then we're going to get to how this conclave
went out. Yeah, there is a major story out there
that Pope Leo, then Cardinal Prevost attended a meeting at
Cardinal Raymond Burke's apartment before the conclave. I have spoken

(07:41):
to about seven sources about this, Three of them confirmed
to me, both very close, All three of them very
close to both sources here, parties here who tell me
that meeting never happened. One said it was an out
and out fabrication.

Speaker 4 (07:55):
Your take on this, No, it never happened. I have
it on the best of sources that that meeting never happened.
There were a lot of cardinals speaking before the conclave,
and the mere fact that cardinals were having meetings should
not be something that bothers us, whether it's the progressives,
the center, the right. That's the normal thing to do.

(08:15):
What would we expect the cardinals to do when they
haven't met for so long except come together and meet
and talk. That's perfectly natural. But this rumor going around
the Cardinal Prevost had gone to Cardinal Burk's apartment and
that they had spoken, it's completely false.

Speaker 3 (08:32):
Yeah, that's my reporter says the same. There's also reporting
that Cardinal Dolan was a king maker in this conclave,
and he was one of the forces that elected Pope Leo.

Speaker 4 (08:43):
Do you believe that it's possible. I haven't had that confirmed.
It's possible that someone like Cardinal Dolan could have spoken
to the US cardinals spoken to other cardinals, say from
South America, although I think the South Americans were quite
united on Cardinal Prey, he considered them. There's a very
good article actually by Jason Horowitz out in the New

(09:04):
York Times where he goes through what he has been
hearing also from cardinals who are speaking a surprising amount
for just having exited. What's supposed to be secret, but.

Speaker 3 (09:17):
Your excommunication, I guess I know.

Speaker 4 (09:20):
But yeah, well, anyway, I have not had to confirm
that Cardinal Dolan had a major role to play.

Speaker 3 (09:27):
Yeah, I want to play this for you. This is
Cardinal Dolan talking to Fox five just after the conclaimt watch.

Speaker 6 (09:34):
I think it was to his advantage that he wasn't
talked about. I think it was to his advantage that
he was a guy we didn't identify with any one
trend or style within the College of Cardinals. I think
it was to his advantage that they didn't really know
he was from the United States. They didn't even know
where he was frough he's sort of a citizen of

(09:54):
the world, as were a citizen of the world to
come out here. I think that was to his advanta.

Speaker 7 (10:00):
I'm thinking that a lot of my brother cardinals shared
my esteem for him, simply because he seemed to have
come from nowhere. Remember when they said about Jesus in
the Gospel, after his first miracle of sermon, the people said,
who's this guy?

Speaker 6 (10:15):
Where'd he come from? We kind of like him, we
want to.

Speaker 5 (10:17):
Get to know him better.

Speaker 6 (10:19):
That seemed to me what characterized Robert France's Prevost.

Speaker 3 (10:24):
Now, Pope Leo Dian what do you think of that?
Was that the key that they didn't know him, that
he didn't seem to be American. I mean, mckilroy said,
the cardinal from Washington, that it was almost negligible that
he was American. It didn't matter because he spent so
much time in Peru. Was Prevost invisibility here his super power.

Speaker 4 (10:44):
Raymond, There's something really interesting that just happened here in
this election. There is a certain similarity between the election
of Pope Francis and the election of Cardinal Prevost. Both
men came out onto the Loja, and so many people
said who's that They had no idea who the man is.
Now that two men are very very different in character.

(11:06):
But certainly Cardinal Provost was someone who guess he would
have been known to probably many bishops and of some
of the cardinals through his work as head of bishops
here in the Roman Curia, but he was not so
well known. It is said in the New York Times
article Jason Horowitz had reported that Cardinal Dolan had breakfast

(11:29):
one morning because with Pravosts, because he didn't know him,
and he wanted to get to know him. But I
think the South American cardinals present in the general congregations
and in the Conclave knew Cardinal Prevost to be a
very moderate man to be one of theirs, So he
would have certainly had the South American vote, but to

(11:51):
be a moderate figure, which I think would have appealed
to a lot of people. Also, through his work in
the Dicastery for bishops, he was known to be someone
who knew to how to run a meeting, you know,
was very practical, knew how to get things done with
someone who took in other people's perspectives, listened to other people,

(12:11):
could be decisive when he needed to be decisive. So
I think all of that went in his favor.

Speaker 3 (12:17):
Yeah, Look from cardinals on the traditional side, cardinals in
the middle, even some cardinals on the left, I hear
the same thing about this man. He's reasonable, he's a believer,
he's a prayerful man, and he listens closely. He's not
a firm ideologue, nothing set and well, we'll talk about

(12:37):
the impact of Leo's arrival after Pope Francis at the.

Speaker 5 (12:40):
End of the interview.

Speaker 3 (12:41):
But I keep hearing from cardinals that the dire finances
of the Vatican well one of their big pressing concerns.
How big a factor do you think that was in
this election?

Speaker 4 (12:49):
Well, I mean it could have been. You know, he
does have a math background. He is known to be
a very practical man. He also is from the United States,
So I think if you have someone from the United States,
now the question will be what decisions will he make?
What will he do? Because if he starts making decisions
and doing things that really appeal to most practicing Catholics

(13:12):
or and I think especially conservative Catholics, I think the Vaticans,
it's going to find in itself in a much better
financial position as a result of it. But it remains
to see what he does.

Speaker 3 (13:23):
I can't tell you how many people say they left
the church because of the things they were hearing from
the Vatican and it disturbed themselves. And these are and
I kept saying, guys, these are side issues. This is
the Pope just just giving his personal opinion. It's not morality,
it's not faith and doctrine. But they couldn't process it
to them. The Pope is saying it. So this is
where the church must be going. And I don't want

(13:43):
to be a part of this. So one hopes that
Pope Leo can restore trust and get us to focus
again on that message of salvation, the gospel.

Speaker 2 (13:52):
That's what this thing's about.

Speaker 3 (13:54):
It's supposed to be a house of salvation, you know,
not a house of ideology and political opinion. But this
is Cardinal Joseph Tobin of Newark talking about knowing Robert
Privos for twenty years when he calls Bob here. Tobin
went forward to vote during the conclave, and this happened.

Speaker 8 (14:15):
Then I walked back and I took a look at
Bob and because his name had been floating around, and
he had his head in his hands, and I was
praying for him because I couldn't imagine what happens to
a human being when you're facing something like that. And

(14:37):
then when he accepted it, it was like he was
made for it. He just all of whatever anguish was
resolved by the feeling that I think that this wasn't
simply his saying yes to a proposal, but God had
made something clear and he agreed with it.

Speaker 3 (14:56):
Diane, what do you make of that? They talked about
his manner and not anything He said that that's what
sealed the deal.

Speaker 4 (15:04):
Yeah, it is for being reported that in the General Congregations,
for instance, Cardinal Provos's speech did not stand out, which
is different from the case of Cardinal Brogoglio, who would
become Pope Francis. I think he really wild people and
wild to the other cardinals in the General congregations. Many
cardinals don't even remember what Cardinal Prevost said, but he

(15:26):
came across as he Also, we have to remember that
he was chosen every three days during the General Congregations
and as part of the Conclave, several cardinals are chosen
by lot to sort of run the administrative element of
the Conclave and the General Congregations, and one of those
turns was given to Cardinal Prevost, So people would have

(15:48):
the cardinals would have had an opportunity to see what
sort of man he is, how he treats the different cardinals,
how he's running things, and that may also have made
an impression.

Speaker 3 (15:58):
On them also, and I'm learning well, first of all,
he was elected twice to head the Global Augustinian Order,
so you know, you don't get a lunatic who's elected twice,
you know, one time, maybe twice.

Speaker 5 (16:10):
Never.

Speaker 3 (16:11):
He was also very close to the unassuming and very
holy former Chicago Cardinal Francis George, whom I knew well.
And if you look at Pope Leo at a certain
vantage point, he almost reminds you of Cardinal Francis George.
Very unassuming, but a solid character. Yes character.

Speaker 4 (16:32):
Now it's interesting, you know, just since he came out,
since popele of the fourteenth came out onto the lojam.
His appearance yesterday singing the regimea Chailey and Latin, and
he has a very good voice, and I hope that
that continues. And his appearance today, his audience with journalists,
he does have a very He communicates very very well

(16:55):
by his manner as well as by his words. He
is a very unassumed nature's he's he's good in front
of the camera, but he doesn't seem to be looking
for the camera.

Speaker 3 (17:06):
And he's great bargain in a.

Speaker 4 (17:08):
Sense that he is putting Jesus first. He's putting Christ
at the center rather than himself. So I think that's
going to appeal to everyone.

Speaker 3 (17:16):
Yeah, some of the cardinals I talked to said, you know,
they're also relying on the grace of the office, and
they see the grace that Catholics believe come with the
office of the pope, that it's already transforming him in
ways that maybe even he didn't expect. Yeah, let's talk
about the pope. Leo's background. He's not only the first
American pope, he's the first Creole pope. He has roots

(17:37):
in New Orleans, which I'm very you know, sent of course. Yeah,
the whole city's buzzing about this. His maternal grandmother was
a Creole. Now those were people who were black and
of European heritage. His grandfather was Haitian. Aside from apparently
passing on some great cooking to his mother, which may
have led to his vocation because priests would come over
to eat her cooking. What does it say about him?

(17:59):
What impact do you think?

Speaker 2 (18:00):
I don't know.

Speaker 4 (18:01):
Well, it has been reported well, sent through his brothers,
and his brothers have done quite a number of interviews,
but they have stressed in some of the interviews what
a Catholic family they grew up in. They said, you know,
every night after the they'd be playing outside or in
school all day, but every night after dinner they prayed
the Rosary as a family. And so this is the

(18:23):
sort of there were religious around the house, there were
priests around the house, so he seems to have been
formed in the very Catholic home, to the point which
at the age five or six he already knew he
wanted to be a priest.

Speaker 1 (18:36):
Diane, four thousand journalists descended on Rome for this conclave period.
Most of them thought the Holy See was a body
of water, So you're there every day. My question is,
what don't we know about this conclave? Tell us about
the inside scoop here.

Speaker 4 (18:52):
So it seems what happened in the conclave. It's important
to remember that Pope Leo was elected on the fourth ballot,
So from what I've heard and what seems reasonable to
believe I have. Of course, the cardinals can't you know,
it is secretive, so the cardinals can't be can't confirm
it necessarily. But it seems as though on the first
ballot on Wednesday night, it became immediately apparent that Cardinal

(19:15):
Perolin simply didn't have enough votes to get him across
the finish line to get to the two thirds majority.
At the same time, what you had from the conservative
side was Cardinal Erdo had a good number of votes,
but the conservative vote was split perhaps by from between
Cardinal Ranjit, Cardinal Erdo and Cardinal Pizzabala. And at the

(19:37):
same time, already and this would make sense if he
was voted in on the fourth ballot, Cardinal Prevost already
emerged as a contender on the first ballot. At the
same time, the cardinals saw that Cardinal Perlin probably couldn't
reach the two thirds majority. They went back to Santa
Marta that night, they spoke and the early votes in
the morning there are two votes. In the morning, Prevos

(20:00):
was gaining momentum, and the cardinals could see that by
the early afternoon that he was the cantinet with momentum.

Speaker 2 (20:09):
Well, that's the cool thing about this process.

Speaker 1 (20:11):
There's such variability, there's possibilities, and it allows the Holy
Spirit room to operate. Rather than an up or down vote,
you know, a one time deal, they could all come
together and just take an upper down majority vote the
two thirds. It's a rolling It's a rolling election that
allows for all sorts of unforeseen possibilities. Final question, how

(20:31):
has this changed the atmosphere of Rome and the Vatican itself.
I'm seeing reports you have Archbishop Gonswain, the former Secretary
of Benedict the sixteenth, saying it's like the air is
suddenly clear again and freedom's return.

Speaker 4 (20:48):
Yes, well, you know one other thing to say about
the conclave itself. Both I have heard this from very
good sources and it's I think it's being reported elsewhere
that Cardinal Prevos didn't win by a simple two thirds majority,
that the votes we was getting into three digits, So
it was quite The college was quite united, and I
have to say, I mean, there is such a spirit

(21:09):
of freedom, there's a spirit of unity. There is a
calm that has descended upon this city that we really
haven't seen in some times. So I think, whoever you are,
all I'm seeing is optimism that this could be a
very unifying pontificate and that we have a good pope.

Speaker 1 (21:31):
Yeah, he has a serenity about him, and I think
people are picking up on that. Diane Montga, we will
check in with you as this papacy matures.

Speaker 2 (21:39):
I thank you for your insight, your fine reportage. We'll
talk soon, Thank you.

Speaker 3 (21:44):
Emmit.

Speaker 1 (21:45):
I spent a lot of time this week at Saint
Peter's Basilica, and it made me think of the mark
each of these popes, the successors to Saint Peter leave
on history and the church. The basilica is built upon
the actual bones of Saint Peter the Apostle. There's really
nothing like the expanse of Saint Peter's basilica when you

(22:07):
first walk in. Just look at the expanse of the
basilica here. It is enormous. I love when they don't
have any chairs in place, because it kind of underscores
just how huge this basilica is. And of course right
behind me over here Michaelangelos Pieta, and there are bees

(22:28):
on the walls, at the base of columns, even on
the ceilings. The boldakino over the main altar would not
exist were it not for this man, Matheo Barbarini Pope
Urban the eighth. His papacy began in sixteen twenty three.
He knew Galileo well, they were close, but when Galileo

(22:48):
refused to publish his ideas as hypotheses rather than fact,
Pope Urban had him jailed. But that's another story. Part
of his legacy is right in Saint Peter's. He commissioned
Bernini to create the baldikino the loggias on the front
of Saint Peter's, especially the one that Pope Leo just

(23:09):
greeted the world on. That too, was commissioned by Pope
Urban the eighth. But back to those bees. Pope Urban's family,
the Barberini's crest featured three bees. They were considered industrious
and elegant, so whenever he added a monument or restored
a part of the basilica, he made sure the Barberini bees.

Speaker 2 (23:30):
Had a place of prominence.

Speaker 1 (23:31):
And just so no one would forget, Pope Urban had
Bernini build a monument atop his tomb in Saint Peter's.
Even if it took the artist twenty years to finish it,
Pope Urban the eighth is still there, reaching out to
all of us and his many bees. For a deeper
dive into who Pope Leo is. I gathered the Conclave crew,

(23:53):
Father Gerald Murray and Robert Royal to discuss when we
were still in Rome.

Speaker 2 (23:58):
This is a compilation of an earlier convent section. Watch chance.

Speaker 1 (24:02):
Let's start with the name. I have to tell you,
I was standing in the square. The Italians were not
too happy with this selection. The Americans were jubilant. The
Italians were a little less. So let's start with the
name from Leo the Great. There have been thirteen popes
with that name Leo. Why do you think he chose it,
Father Jerry, I.

Speaker 9 (24:21):
Think he's signaling that he wants to continue with the
teaching of Pope Leo the thirteenth, who is the father
of Catholic social teaching in the modern era. And precisely
because Leo the thirteenth was a great defender of the
working man, of the rights of workers to organize, to
form unions. But we also have to remember that he

(24:41):
also condemned socialism, and he defended the right to private property,
which in reality is also part of Catholic social teaching,
despite what some social justice warriors occasionally claimed. So I
think this is a very important signal that he's very
interested in the social teaching of the Church, maintaining a
press presence in the we could say the public square

(25:03):
as regards economic life.

Speaker 1 (25:05):
Bob Any further reflections on that that choice of Leo
I was surprised.

Speaker 2 (25:10):
Actually another Leo.

Speaker 10 (25:13):
I was too, I must say, and look, Benedict the
sixteenth chose to follow Benedict the fifteenth, who was early
in the twentieth century and helped to build up a
sense of peace at a time of war. I get
the impression that Leo the fourteenth wants to reach back,
as Father was saying, to that foundation of modern Catholic

(25:36):
social thought in Leo the thirteenth. In my book A
Deeper Vision, which is about the modern Catholic intellectual tradition,
I have a great, an intricate and careful analysis of
what Leo did. And one of the things that Leo
did was he also created the resurgence of studies of
same time as Aquiemas, and he linked the two so

(25:56):
much so that my friend Russell Hittinger, who's an expert
on natural law and modern Catholic social thought, has pointed
out that Leo never talked about social thought without mentioning
Saint Thomas. Now, I don't know that Leo the fourteenth
has exactly got that in mind, but I would hope
that he would not just accept the framework of modern

(26:18):
politics and economics, but would actually be reaching deeply into
our Catholic tradition of.

Speaker 5 (26:24):
Thinking about society.

Speaker 10 (26:26):
And bring something new and dynamic and creative to a
circumstance that is very, very troubling in many ways.

Speaker 1 (26:33):
Father, what did you make of the Mozetta that he
was wearing that red cape that is traditional for the
pope to wear. I mean, we did not see that
from Pope Francis.

Speaker 2 (26:42):
I mean though he.

Speaker 1 (26:43):
Is considered Leo the fourteenth is considered to be in
the vein of Pope Francis, and we'll get altered into
that in a moment, but contrast that image with that
of Pope Francis the first time we saw him.

Speaker 9 (26:54):
Yes, Leo made the conscious choice to observe the traditional
practice that popes come out. They're wearing the white cassick
for the first time, but then they're wearing the mozetta,
which is red, which is the symbol of a bishop.
They're wearing the pope wears then the red stole symbol
and anything martyrdom. And then there are two martyrs pictured

(27:14):
on that, Peter and Paul, who are the two founders
that we say of the church in Rome. And then
he of course then followed the ritual very carefully, because
there's a ritual with some prayers which go back, you know,
to the old Mass. Even those prayers I was listening
to them. He has, by the ways, Latin.

Speaker 5 (27:35):
Is very good. He said them worst beautifully.

Speaker 9 (27:37):
He had written out his comments in Italian, which probably
reflects the fact that he doesn't think spontaneously in Italian,
so he wanted to have them written. But they were
good remarks, so I was impressed he was sending a
signal of continuity with previous posts Pope Francis. Basically we
learned from sources that he viewed that as who's much

(28:00):
of a spectacle and he didn't want to participate in it.
But in a way you could say that Pope Leo
was subsuming his personality right into the office and was
stepping away from making how can we say statements that
indicate personal preferences.

Speaker 1 (28:16):
He did say in his first address, and I remember,
you know, I couldn't make it all out because, as
we've been commenting it, it was very hard to hear
in St.

Speaker 2 (28:24):
Peters Square or above it.

Speaker 1 (28:27):
He did say, we need to be a sonotyl church
and reach out in dialogue and encounter. What does that mean,
Robert Royle?

Speaker 10 (28:36):
Well, look, it can mean any number of things, because,
as we've said over and over again, cinidality itself is
kind of an empty sack that could be either filled
or not filled, depending on who the pope happens to
be Yeah, he really did emphasize the continuity with Francis
quite a bit. But as Father rightly says, not only
in the way that he vested himself or was vested

(28:56):
for the event yesterday, but the way he carries himself
he conveys I've spoken to a number of people back
home in America as well as here in Rome, and
the way he conducts himself is as a serious man,
a mature man who's careful about what he says, and
brings a kind of I think he brings back a
little bit of the majesty already of what the pope

(29:18):
is like, even though he's an American and we're not
supposed to have, you know, sort of of that kind
of mentality in us. It'll be interesting to see where
that goes, because you can be in continuity with the
previous pope and yet at the same time practice a
certain innovation. And the very fact that he chose that
name they jumped back a century and more to the

(29:39):
name of Leo. It'll be interesting to see where he goes,
and I don't think we can predict.

Speaker 2 (29:43):
Father.

Speaker 1 (29:44):
I thought of you when I heard that we were
standing on the balcony together. You were doing a hit
and I was right there and I thought, my gosh,
how much time have we spent trying to determine what
the term citidality means. And here's the pope saying we
need a sonodyl church. I've been waiting for this. What
is your take on that? And what do you think
he intends?

Speaker 9 (30:05):
Well, I think he's signaling to the cardinals and others,
particularly the cardinals who voted for him, that he is
going to not stop this Sonadyl process that Poe Francis began,
because it's quite clear those who criticized the Sonadyl path
were hoping.

Speaker 5 (30:20):
To elect a pope who would put an end to it.

Speaker 9 (30:24):
This certainly was my hope, because cinidality is a vague concept,
and it really is a change from what it originally meant.
Cinnidale is based on the word sind sined in the
modern sense, was created by Paul the six after a
Vatican two to have a forum in which bishops throughout
the world would meet periodically to advise the pope on

(30:45):
the needs of the church in the modern world. Poe
Francis turned it into a meeting of laity, priests, deacons,
nuns and bishops and gave everybody an equal vote. And
this was indicative. It's kind of like it was a
stage post, a way station.

Speaker 5 (31:01):
On the way to what they're going to have in
twenty twenty eight, which.

Speaker 9 (31:04):
Is the ecclesial assembly in which bishops will not be
the majority in Rome. And I wrote a column at
the Catholic thing, tearing into it, which it deserves to be.
We are not a church in which the hierarchy is
an appendage. It's a hierarchical church with synidal experiences. It's
not a synidyl church with hierarchical appendages.

Speaker 5 (31:27):
That's what I'm very much afraid of.

Speaker 9 (31:29):
So it's not clear what Leo means by cynidl church,
but if it means the ecclesial Assembly in twenty twenty eight,
well get ready because there's going to be a lot
of opposition based on the fact that this is completely
at odds with the hierarchical nature of the Catholic Church.

Speaker 2 (31:47):
Well, it's also at odds with the founding of the church.

Speaker 1 (31:49):
The Lord didn't bring all the disciples and everybody following
him through Galley and say hey, guys, you all of
the power to loose and bind. Whatever you bind on
earth is bond in heaven, and on earth is loosed
in it. No, he gave that only to Peter and
then to the apostles. It's a very limited group. So
it does kind of corrupt the vision of church governance

(32:11):
when you start bringing atheists in and non believers in,
and everybody and their dog in, and then you and
only a select group of cardinals who agree with you.

Speaker 2 (32:18):
That's a problem. Bob, I'll give you the last word
on this.

Speaker 10 (32:22):
Yeah, I think that the next stage to look toward
because for others right the twenty twenty eight is if
that's going to continue on the way it was originally planned,
that's going to be a big problem.

Speaker 1 (32:32):
Which we know that the proved from the Jameli clinic,
from his really his hospital bed.

Speaker 10 (32:38):
But we know that in June, those ten study groups
that were established at the end of the last Senate
in October, that basically took the hot button issues off
the table. Women, deacons, you know, all that sort of stuff.
Their reports are doing June. So presumably those those committees

(32:59):
have been We're working on this all this time, in
spite of the fact that Francis was ill they're supposed
to deliver reports in June. If they do that and
they are submitted to Pope Leo, we can see how
he reacts to that, what he's going to do with him.
Does he immediately kind of publish them, or does he said, well,
you know, let me think this over a bit. That'll
be our first indication, I think, our first solid indication

(33:22):
of what he intends to do.

Speaker 1 (33:24):
Look, we always said, and I was told by cardinals,
including many of whom we had meetings and dinners and
conference with over the last ten days or so, that
an American could not be named pope.

Speaker 2 (33:38):
America is already powerful enough. You don't need an American pope.
Yet Pope Leo is the first American in history.

Speaker 1 (33:45):
Why do you think they elected him, father, I'm told
in part because of the financial strains of the Vatican,
a two billion dollar deficit, four hundred million dollars in
unpaid pensions.

Speaker 2 (33:55):
Father, Why an American?

Speaker 9 (33:56):
Well, I think that's one of the two important reasons. Well,
there are a number of He's going to give two
that I think are important.

Speaker 5 (34:01):
One is precisely this.

Speaker 9 (34:03):
They understand that someone coming for what we call the
Anglo sphere in other words, the Anglo Saxon world English
speaking world that financial competence and rigor are normal in
the operations of the economies of England, Australia, Canada and
the United States. And therefore there's hope that he will

(34:27):
bring that kind of vision to the reform here, because
we're talking two billion dollar pension hold We're talking major
operating deficits every year, we're talking mismanagement of assets. So
hopefully Pope Leo will bring in some very serious and
powerful minds and voices to say no, we're going to

(34:48):
top to bottom renewal. Secondly, he really is a Latin
American in experience because his priesthood has lived in Peru
at the beginning and then at the end when he
was a bishop in Chiclio. His Spanish is perfect, so
he is by experience he's really a Latin American, but
he's also a North American, so he's both Americans.

Speaker 5 (35:08):
I think that was attracted.

Speaker 8 (35:10):
You know.

Speaker 9 (35:10):
Other reasons of court has to do with the fact
that he was appointed to this important position at the
dicastrabitious bi Pope France hasn't made a cardinal by him,
so the continuity with Pope Francis is assumed by those
who voted for him, because they would say he wouldn't
be here to be elected pope if it weren't for
Pope Francis.

Speaker 5 (35:29):
Those are some of the things I think are going on.

Speaker 1 (35:31):
Bob, How do you think this will impact having an
American pope, Pope Leo? How will that impact his relationship
with America, which we have to say has been tense
since Trump came to town.

Speaker 5 (35:43):
Yeah.

Speaker 10 (35:45):
Look, I hear some people saying, and this is part
of that overspeculation that takes place at a moment like this.
I hear some people saying that the Cardinals chose him
to confront Trump. I think this is utter nonsense, because
what they're primarily concerned about are some of the issues
we just mentioned that are really pressing on the church
at this moment. In fact, it might actually help that

(36:07):
he knows the United States pretty well.

Speaker 5 (36:10):
I was a little bit.

Speaker 10 (36:10):
Disappointed that he didn't use any English during his initial
address last evening, because look, he is, yes, he is
very much a Latin American. Now he's very much a Roman.
He's spent a number of years now in Rome. But
darn it, you know you are who you are. I mean,
you started on the South side of Chicago.

Speaker 5 (36:28):
I think you ought to be proud of that.

Speaker 10 (36:31):
And it's you know, we are all sensitive to the
cultural issues like cinidality, homosexuality, you know, women, priests, all that.

Speaker 5 (36:38):
Sort of thing.

Speaker 10 (36:39):
But I think he's shown himself to be a safe
pair of hands. And as I said earlier, he's impressed
in a number of people. He's even impressed me. I mean,
I'm just seeing him on TV, but he's he the
emotion that he showed last night and the kind of
maturity that he seems to radiate. I think if you
were looking around and saying, look, we need to clean
house here in Rome and calm down a bit and

(37:02):
take some of those practical steps that we know we
need to take, but he doesn't seem to have been
able to do. Could you could be worse. And on
top of it, he knows a lot of these bishops
who've been appointed because he was the headman in that
that office. So there are a number of things that
come together that could be helpful. He probably isn't going
to look that American to most Americans back in North.

Speaker 5 (37:22):
America, but he is an American.

Speaker 10 (37:24):
Yeah, and I wan't rub it in that. I won't
put rub it in that I projected yesterday that it's
not impossible.

Speaker 2 (37:31):
Well, well, we have the video evidence. Unfortunately, or I
would deprive you of that, but I can't.

Speaker 1 (37:36):
And look, in his first Mass at the Assistine Chapel,
the Pope used the crozure of Poe Benedict. So it's
being reported others say that that Krozier is actually Paul
the six. I don't know who's right here, but does
that have any meaning?

Speaker 5 (37:50):
Father?

Speaker 8 (37:51):
Yes?

Speaker 9 (37:51):
And he also began the sermon in English. He did
off the coup from Marks and he could I think
somebody told them, you know, the Americans are waiting for
you to talk in English at the bout, which he
didn't do.

Speaker 3 (38:01):
Yeah.

Speaker 9 (38:01):
I mean he's stressing continuity and with not just Pope Francis,
but Pope Nedict and even John Paul.

Speaker 5 (38:10):
He had quoted John Paul. And let's just say this.

Speaker 9 (38:15):
The sermon was a very serious sermon in which he
talked about practical atheism, talked about challenges in the modern
world that the Church faces. He talked about the necessity
of preaching the Gospel to the world Christo centric. We
would say centered on Christ. So I was impressed with
the sermon, and I think the cardinals listening were too.

Speaker 2 (38:36):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (38:36):
Look, anytime you mentioned ignacious of Antioch and giving yourself,
you know, for the faith, that's pretty good stuff. I
want to give the audience a little taste. This is
the opening of his homily, which he pronounced in English.

Speaker 11 (38:48):
Watch begin with a word in English and the rest
is in Italian. But I want to repeat the words
from the responsorial Psalm. I will sing a new song
belong to the Lord, because he has done marvels, and indeed,
not just with me, but with all of us, my

(39:09):
brother cardinals, as we celebrate this morning, I invite you
to recognize the marvels that the Lord has done, the
blessings that the Lord continues to pour out upon all
of us through the ministry of Peter. You have called
me to carry that cross and to be blessed with

(39:30):
that mission. And I know I can rely on each
and every one of you to walk with me as
we continue as a church, as a community of friends
of Jesus, as believers, to announce the good news, to
announce the gospel.

Speaker 2 (39:48):
Bob, what do you make of that?

Speaker 10 (39:50):
Well, it look it's nice and we had a pope.
Someone priest pointed out to me a little while ago
that Pope Francis was really the only modern pope in
the twentieth century and on who didn't speak English, and
that doubtless tilted his understanding of the world somewhat. And
I think we have to expect that Pope Leo is

(40:12):
also because he's largely now a Latin American, and his
mentality is going to be absorbed somewhat into that view.
But if he's very serious about presenting the Gospel to
the world, and he's serious about how the Church is
going to form the world at this moment of transition
that we seem to be in a variety of ways,

(40:33):
we're going to have to bring in some new energies.
And I think some of those energies are going to
have to come from English speaking sources, because where the
place where you know, the modern world has actually succeeded,
at least economically, you know, more or less politically, we
have all kinds.

Speaker 5 (40:47):
Of crises in the English speaking world. But for him to.

Speaker 10 (40:50):
Step out with that, I think is going to expand
the mentality a little bit. Because what language you use
makes a difference.

Speaker 2 (40:57):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (40:57):
Well, and our contry of father Marriage said yesterday on
the podcast that this should be the basic and foundational
language used as the Vatican, that it should be English.

Speaker 2 (41:08):
Maybe he's listening to the podcast.

Speaker 9 (41:10):
Father, Well, in the global world, you want to imitate
the UN start using English.

Speaker 5 (41:16):
I mean, yeah, it's.

Speaker 9 (41:18):
Oh, I've said, I've thought this for a long time.
English is the language. I mean, airplane pilots have to
know English. And it's a practicality that things get done
easily when people can understand each other. So yeah, that
would be a basics that battalion is this minor language
in the old or a world picture, it's important because
it's the language of the Holy See.

Speaker 2 (41:39):
We had a few comments.

Speaker 1 (41:40):
Some were saying, oh, Father Murray is saying we should
replace the Latin with English. No, no, no, he's saying
the language used to converse in Vatican offices and in
the Vatican City state right now, it's Italian.

Speaker 2 (41:51):
It's not Latin.

Speaker 5 (41:52):
Yeah. No, And let me note this.

Speaker 9 (41:53):
He's a canon lawyer, the New Poe and I'm a
canon lawyer, So I like that, but I like it
for other reason. But you know, one of which the
law is written in Latin, because that is a whole
history up to this point, and then with all the
different translations. Good to have a reference point. So kind
of law should stay in Latin. But yeah, I mean
office memos in English would be very practical.

Speaker 1 (42:15):
Father Pope Leo has asked all the courial heads, that
means all the men who run and women in some cases,
these various dicastries in the Vatican, the Vatican offices, He's
asked them to stay in their positions for the time being,
to keep their respective jobs until further Notice what does
that tell you?

Speaker 9 (42:34):
Yeah, that's a standard practice when the new pope comes in,
and it's a wise practice because you know, when the
office is reopen after this you know, momentous time of
the pope's death and the burial and now the election
new pope, you know, there's a lot of work that
has to be done, and if the leader is not
there at each of these departments, it becomes a little
bit difficult. The real but the tell, as they would say,

(42:57):
is going to be who does he replace and who does.

Speaker 5 (42:59):
He keep in place?

Speaker 9 (43:00):
Because you know the heads of these dicasteries were very
much disciples of Pope Francis and often proponents of implementing
radical ideas at at an accelerated pace. Even so, we'll
get a read on Pope France's, on Pope Leo's continuity
program by seeing who's left and who's replaced.

Speaker 2 (43:22):
Bob pob Leo spent a lot of time in Peru.

Speaker 1 (43:25):
How does that experience, that missionary experience, shape this pontificate.
I mean, you heard it in his opening comment when
he was on the Logia the other day, basically that
the pastors should smell of the sheep and they have
to walk with the people.

Speaker 5 (43:40):
Yeah, Peru has been a very troubled place.

Speaker 10 (43:43):
Most English speakers in North America don't know much about Peru.
But Peru went through a terrible period towards the end
of the twentieth century with a movement called Sinderrolminozo, which
was a Marxist import from China. It's just ripped up
the whole society. They began to reform, and they've in
recent decades too, they've had a number of political ups

(44:06):
and downs, let's put it that way. So he's confronted
in check Clio's a relatively small diocese. I have a
personal connection with it. Because a priest that I grew
up with in my little parish in Connecticut was sent
as missionary down there.

Speaker 5 (44:19):
He was supposed to be there for a few years,
and he loved it and he just.

Speaker 10 (44:21):
Stayed the whole time, and you know, we all kind
of fell close to it and where I grew up.
But look, he's seen that. I think he was the
vice president of the bishop's conference there, and so he's
seen the turmoil of Latin America, and in a way
that political turmoil maybe is something that he's thinking about
when he takes the name Leo the fourteenth. But I

(44:44):
would also say that there is an evangelizing turmoil that
we know that the Pentecostals and the other sort of
evangelical groups are growing by leaps and bounds in these places.
And so you could you con lament that that's happening,
but you have to do something. In many of the
places in Latin America that I'm familiar with the reason

(45:06):
why people leave the church is precisely because they want
to get away from politics. That the church is too politicized,
either for liberation theology, or you know, something or other
that's going to be a tough needle for him to thread,
and it'll be interesting to keep an eye on what
he does with that.

Speaker 1 (45:20):
Well, that's a great intro to what we talked about
the other day, which is really the challenges facing the
church right now in the post Francis era, if you will,
and then now in the beginning of the Leo era.
So I want to talk about how well Pope Leo
might be disposed or perhaps not to embrace some of
these challenges.

Speaker 2 (45:38):
In an earlier episode, we.

Speaker 1 (45:39):
Talked about the collapse of due process father in the
church canonical norms under Pope Francis. They were just shattered,
as you mentioned a moment ago, Robert Privos. Now Pop
Leo is a canon lawyer. Tell me restate some of
the problems that in your mind need addressing, and how
he approach these canonical issues, and how culpable he may

(46:04):
be in a way that Pope Francis perhaps was not.

Speaker 9 (46:07):
Well, since, yeah, as a canon lawyer, he knows the rules,
he knows why the rules are put in place. In
other words, they're not arbitrary things invented just to keep
the powerful powerful.

Speaker 5 (46:17):
They were.

Speaker 9 (46:18):
The canon law is designed to guarantee respect for the
rights of everyone in the church, so the hierarchs have
to follow procedures when there are questions regarding people subject
to them. There are a lot of issues remaining that
need to be looked at. We have sex abuse enforcement.
I mean right now we have bishops and Ketta who

(46:39):
was announced to be under a canonical process over three
or four years ago, I can't remember how long, but
we never heard another word about So that process has
to be brought to completion because guess what, this man
was convicted in the civil court in Argentine of confusing seminarians.
There's no reason why this man, if guilty, found guilty
and countercros should not be removed from the priest.

Speaker 5 (46:59):
Same with Father.

Speaker 9 (47:01):
Rupnik Marco Rupnik. He was thrown out of the Jesuits
because he wouldn't cooperate with them and their investigation of
sexual abuse of nuns who were under his spiritual care.
So sex abuse is going to be something very important
to look at. Similarly, we have to look at how
investigations are done in religious orders because Poe Francis had
a hostility and this is noted this I'm not inventing

(47:25):
this to more traditional and charismatic type groups in the church.
Some of them had problems, there's no doubt, you know.
The Sodolitzio in Peru was the founder of it, was
a guilty of sex abuse and others in the group participated,
but Pope Francis abolished the group and a lot of
good members were felt that there was not enough due process.

(47:47):
The Institute of the Incarnate Word is currently under investigation now.
Its founder in Argentina was also found guilty of sexual
abuse of miners or seminarians. But that group is why worldwide.
In fact, the Pope always called the parish in Gaza,
you know, every night, and the pastor there was a
member of that group. So though there are a lot

(48:08):
of groups in France have similar investigations going on, we
never heard the end about the Franciscans of the Immaculate
in Italy and elsewhere.

Speaker 5 (48:17):
They were put.

Speaker 9 (48:18):
Under a moderator and no resolutions. So they're going to
be those canonical investigations that need to be completed. Opus
Stay they changed the law regarding personal predators. It's a
complicated canonical thing. Won't go into but you know, Opa
Stay was given the opportunity to submit their own revised

(48:38):
statutes and they were at a meeting when the Pope
died in which they were going to come up with
their final proposal. So they suspended the statute proposal. New
Pope's going to take that up. So those are some
of the things. These are canonical issues, and the reason
they're important is everybody else is watching and if they
feel that if these groups feel they're treated unfairly, and

(49:01):
everyone else is going to be suspicious. If fairness is evident,
that's how you have social harmony in the church.

Speaker 1 (49:07):
Yeah, let's get into some of the other areas that
pope will be contending with. The Pope Leo when he
was Cardinal Robert Privos is being quoted in the media
as saying this In a twenty twenty twelve addressed Catholic
pastors who preach against legalization of abortion or the redefinition
of marriage are portrayed as being ideologically driven, severe and uncaring.

(49:32):
He went on to call out the media for depicting
the quote homosexual lifestyle and same sex partners with their
adopted children as a challenge your thoughts, Bob on these
quotes and the upsetment that some gay groups are communicating today.
They say, wait, this is a departure from Pope Francis.
He was welcoming us and this is these these comments

(49:55):
are just abrasive and hostile.

Speaker 10 (49:59):
Well, I'm glad to hear that. I mean, that's actually
the thirteen years ago, and the question is right now.
Pope France has said a lot of strong things about
pro life, about protecting life and the woman protecting life
at the end of natural life, but he didn't do much,
and I would like to see some more action and

(50:21):
even drum beating. France has actually discouraged people from doing
from being obsessed and focused on the pro life issues
and the gay issues, and I think that that was
to his detriment because he just kind of in advance
and announced, yeah, we're going to say this, but we're
not going to do anything as far as the gay
thing goes. In addition to what Father was just saying
about the high handedness that France has often showed towards

(50:45):
these other groups, I would hope that in addition to
following the law, that Leo would look deeply into why
it is that it's been so difficult to move the
needle within the church on homosexuals, and clearly there is
some kind of protective network that exists. It was also

(51:06):
personal when it came to Francis with the cases of Unchetta,
and it appears also with Reupnik to some degree. But
we know that there's some kind of protective network here
that needs to be rooted out. It simply can't go
on that at a time when as we're learning that
the young priests were coming into the church in the
United States and elsewhere are deeply, deeply satisfied being heterosexual.

(51:31):
Homosexuals aretending not to go into the seminary that the
church in terms of its general culture has kind of turned.
There can't any longer be this network that has protected
the Macharics and the Unchettas, and on and on and on,
and he's going to have to look very carefully into this.
John Paul wasn't able to do it, and we know
he would like to have done it.

Speaker 5 (51:52):
Benedict was not.

Speaker 10 (51:53):
Able to do it, and we know he would like
to have done it. Francis talked about it, he issued
some documents, but was still not very far from where
we were when he became pope. So this is a
burning issue life and redefining sexuality in the family in
a way that makes sense. And stands strong against the
activism of these homosexual groups.

Speaker 2 (52:16):
Father, I want you to invite you into this. I
know you're probably champion it a bit.

Speaker 5 (52:20):
Go ahead.

Speaker 9 (52:21):
Yeah, No, Bob's got a very good point. And this
goes back to what member Bishop Morlino, who made a
speech to the US bishops and says, you know, we
have to confront the fact that there's a homosexual problem
in the clergy and this cannot be tolerated. So what
it basically means is the Vatican has to make it
clear priests who are unchased, meaning they don't live, you know,

(52:42):
Christian teaching about sexual purity, they're unchased. They are a
blot on the priesthood. They have to reform their lives
or be removed. Because you can have a system in
which people are expected to teach a series of propositions
that the Church considers to be the true truth, and
yet they reject them in their own lives, and I'm

(53:03):
sure in private tell people, you know, don't pay attention
to this stuff.

Speaker 5 (53:06):
So that's a problem.

Speaker 9 (53:08):
And then you know, the more general issue is is
it the role of a bishop as a shepherd to
protect the flock in ways that are going to upset
some people, and it always is. You know, we're not
here to please governments, We're not here to please cooperations,
We're not here to please the homosexual lobby, which says

(53:30):
it's unfair that the Catholic Church stigmatizes what we do. Well,
the answer is, you can go where you want as
a person. We hope you'll embrace Catholicism, but don't try
to subvert Catholic teaching in the name of Christ, saying well,
Jesus was never severe.

Speaker 5 (53:46):
What do you mean he wasn't severe.

Speaker 9 (53:47):
Jesus is the author of the Bible, which says that
homosexual activity is an abomination, So we have to get
to that point.

Speaker 1 (53:54):
Raymond Cardinal Privos, now Pope Leo was head of the
dicastria that selected and dispatched.

Speaker 2 (54:02):
We have to just say it.

Speaker 1 (54:03):
Many bishops, notably Bishop Strickland in the United States in Tyler, Texas,
Bishop ray in France, both were removed, one for saying
things on social media that you was overboard about Pope Francis.
One for being too orthodox and having really thriving seminarians
in the diocese, but they were too traditional for the

(54:24):
Vatican's taste. I read one story where Provos ran the
visitation that looked into Bishop Ray.

Speaker 2 (54:31):
Your thoughts on.

Speaker 1 (54:33):
What this tells us and do you think it might
restore or he might restore those bishops back to practice.

Speaker 10 (54:40):
Bob Well about Strickland, I'm doubtful, although I don't have
any insight, any insight into that that I think was
kind of a personal clash that Bishop Strickland had over
what he thought but Francis was doing and often his
arguments were well were well taken. This question in France

(55:03):
bothers me a bit more because when someone is described
as being too orthodox and they have too many seminarians
coming in and the dioces is flourishing, it seems to
me to be normal human reaction to look at it
and say, hey, why is this working?

Speaker 1 (55:21):
Too many people want salvation, too many people want to
serve Jesus.

Speaker 2 (55:25):
What's happening?

Speaker 1 (55:25):
You know?

Speaker 10 (55:26):
People are showing up and they want to be priests. Well,
why is there there anything wrong with that? And if look,
if they're going overboard, and maybe they are, you know,
maybe there's a there's a kind of a spirit of
rebellion that can even take place in these traditional plays. Well,
you don't abolish it, though. What you try to do
is you try to work with them. And we hear
a lot that Cardinal Prevost was a listener, that he

(55:48):
would listen and proceed in a kind of a calm
and mature way to make decisions. So I'm a little
worried about that, of course, because it just seems to
me inexplicable. It could be that somebody put pressure on him.
Certainly in the case of the appointment of McElroy in Washington,
d C. We have to think that that was the

(56:10):
hand of the Pope specifically reaching in there and saying
I want him moving from San Diego to Washington, d C.
So some of these decisions may not be entirely his,
but he's going to have to take on the responsibilities. Now,
if we don't want a church that is just going
to continue to collapse, and you know, it'll have a

(56:30):
large number of faithful people, but it'll continue to collapse.
Its influence will continue to collapse. The evangelization, the carrying
out of the message of Jesus to the world begins
to be weaker and weaker. We don't want that. Then
we need to take some new directions and it's not
the ones that we've had the past twelve years. There
was no Francis effect.

Speaker 2 (56:51):
Father, Do you want to add anything there quickly?

Speaker 3 (56:53):
Well?

Speaker 5 (56:53):
So, yes.

Speaker 9 (56:54):
I think it's incumbent on the Pope restore or to
give an assignment to bishops who are in ways I
consider unjust. Bishop Daniel Fernandez and Puerto Rico has no assignment.
He should be made a bishop of adiaces or an
auxiliary bishop, same with Strickland and Bishop Ray. He was
mistreated and he should also be given an assignment because

(57:16):
the Pope basically removed them in their diocese as a
form of punishment, but he didn't suspend them, so they
still fully function as priests and mass and confession. This
is an anomalous situation.

Speaker 5 (57:28):
It shouldn't happen.

Speaker 2 (57:29):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (57:30):
We talked about the sex abuse crisis a little earlier
and how Pope Francis shielded friends and colleagues at times
from justice, ignoring the Christ of victims. It has to
be said Pope Leo has his own record in Peru
and Chicago that has gotten some coverage since yesterday.

Speaker 2 (57:47):
A number of.

Speaker 1 (57:48):
Girls in Peru claimed a priest abuse them. They went
to privos and they claim no investigation was ever opened.
What will Pope Leo's approach be. Do you think to
restore confidence and transparency in the church?

Speaker 2 (58:02):
What is required now?

Speaker 5 (58:03):
Father?

Speaker 9 (58:03):
Briefly, well, this case in Peru, I read from the
point of view of the complaining people, meaning the people
feel offended by what Cardinal prevost how we handled the matter.
I think it would be good if we got an
explanation of that. The Peruvian bishops issued a statement a
while ago saying that he did everything right. The candid

(58:24):
lawyer for the three girls who say they're abused by
two priests say he didn't, So I think we need
enlightenment on that. There's also the case in Chicago, whereas
head of the Augustinian Order, he assigned a priest to
live who had been accused by multiple accusations and sexual
abuse of minus. He was put into a rectory which

(58:45):
was located in close proximity to a Catholic grammar school.
And that this was in fact something that Cardinal Supek
had apologized for previously doing a similar assignment. So those
things should be dealt with. And you know, the Pope
if he says, you know, I regret decisions I made

(59:05):
and I apologize, it'll be over. I mean, that's just
the way you clear things up.

Speaker 1 (59:09):
Well, as you said the other day, just let a
due process trial and investigation proceed and then show no
favoritism to anyone.

Speaker 2 (59:19):
Everyone is under the same law.

Speaker 1 (59:21):
That would restore I think confidence if we just did
that over and under before we go. Will he live
in the Apostolic.

Speaker 10 (59:28):
Palace, Bob, Yes, yes, yes, I think that what we
saw by the way he presented himself and whatnot. And remember,
Francis didn't go to Santa Marta because it's uncomfortable or
it's humble. He just didn't want to be isolated. And
I think it's a much better place for the pope

(59:48):
to be and he probably understands that as well.

Speaker 2 (59:50):
Yeah, Father agreed.

Speaker 1 (59:53):
Yeah, And let's face it, it's more humble dwellings than
the Santa Martin.

Speaker 2 (59:57):
I've been to both.

Speaker 1 (59:58):
I can tell you ones like the hill. The other
is like a little hostel. The Apostolic Palace is not
as the hallways are grand, but the room it's a
tiny room. Yeah, I mean it's not much and it's
drafty in the winter. One last caveat this is not
a president or Prime Minister. This is the two hundred
and sixty seventh successor of Saint Peter the Apostle, the

(01:00:19):
Prince of the Apostles, and there is grace that it
comes with that office, and that's getting lost in a
lot of these conversations I'm seeing in the media. It
has power to not only remake the church, but the man.

Speaker 2 (01:00:31):
Who holds that office. We will watch the.

Speaker 1 (01:00:33):
Rise of Pope Leo the fourteenth together and pray that
God guides him and shapes him in these days to come.
I hope you'll come back to a Royo Grande soon
and the posse I think we'll keep rolling on.

Speaker 2 (01:00:47):
What do you think?

Speaker 1 (01:00:48):
Drop a comment below and make sure you subscribe to
the Royal Grande podcast on our YouTube channel wherever you
get your podcasts, and like us, why live a dry,
narrow trickle of a life when if you fill it
with good things, it can flow into a broad, thriving
Arroyo Grande.

Speaker 2 (01:01:05):
I'm raiming Arroyo. We'll see you next time. Thanks for
diving in. By No.

Speaker 1 (01:01:11):
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Speaker 2 (01:01:17):
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