Prayerful Posse: Pope Leo’s Plans for the Latin Mass

This week on the Prayerful Posse, Raymond Arroyo, Father Gerald Murray, and Robert Royal break down new reports suggesting Pope Leo may be easing the Latin Mass restrictions through broader exemptions. They examine what this means for bishops, traditional communities, and whether these changes signal the beginning of a quiet shift away from Traditionis Custodes.

The Posse also unpacks the Synod’s interim reports—raising fresh concerns about evolving terminology, bureaucratic jargon, and attempts to revive long-settled debates. From “pastorality” to the push for expanded lay governance, they explore what these documents reveal about the Synod’s real direction.

Raymond, Father, and Bob then analyze Pope Leo’s latest unscripted comments on Nigeria and U.S. immigration enforcement, as well as the media-driven controversy surrounding a Vatican luncheon for the poor that included transgender attendees.

The episode closes on a hopeful note: a surge in young adult converts entering the Church across the country—especially in New York—and why parishes rooted in beauty, reverence, and doctrinal clarity are drawing people back to the faith in remarkable numbers.

🔔 Subscribe for more inspiring conversations: Arroyo Grande, available on YouTube, Apple Podcasts, iHeart, and everywhere you listen, watch & stream.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Is Pope Leo planning a retreat on the Latin Mass
restrictions instituted by his predecessor the Prayerful Posse. We'll explore
it all next. Welcome to an important Prayerful Posse. Be

(00:20):
sure to go subscribe to the show. It's a wonderful
way to support the work that we're doing and it's
totally free. Or you can visit Raymond Arroyo dot com
if you'd like to contribute.

Speaker 2 (00:32):
Let's convene the Prayerful Posse.

Speaker 1 (00:34):
Canon lawyer Priest of the Archdiocese of New York, Father
Gerald Murray, and editor in chief of The Catholic Thing
dot org Robert Royal.

Speaker 2 (00:42):
Gentlemen, thanks for being here. I want to.

Speaker 1 (00:44):
Start with these reports this week that Pope Leo maybe
and I want to underscore maybe rolling back Pope Francis's
restrictions on the traditional Latin Mass.

Speaker 2 (00:55):
Now.

Speaker 1 (00:56):
The news comes as the Pillar and Catholic News Service
have confirmed that the Pope's representative to Britain told bishops
there that a recent meeting that he attended and brief
them on that Popolio does not intend to repeal Traditionionis Custodis,
which restricted the traditional right, but he is willing to

(01:17):
grant generous exemptions to the enforcement of the law, at
least in the UK. Father CNS, the Catholic News Service,
was quick to characterize this news as nothing has changed,
assuming the news is correct.

Speaker 2 (01:33):
Are they right?

Speaker 3 (01:35):
I would say CNS is not right, because if it's
true that there'll be generous exemptions, that means when bishop's
request to have the Latin traditional Latin Mass in parish churches,
apparently now they will be given exemptions for a couple
of years. In the recent past, bishops asking for that

(01:56):
were generally denied under Pope Francis, and they seem their
war exceptions now being given in under Pope Leo. So
I hope that's continuing, but it is not a how
can we say return to the order that Pope Benedict started,
because when we say generous exemptions, that's only to bishops.

(02:16):
What about lay people? Can they request this directly? There's
no indication of that. What about parish priests? Could they
request it? So it really is going back to you
even before Pope Benedict, because under Pope John Paul the
Second it was up to the diocese and bishop to
authorize the Latin Mass in his diocese, and now perhaps
that's where we're headed.

Speaker 1 (02:37):
Yeah, Bob, why not just abrogate tradisionists and restore some
more in pontificum Pope Benedict's legislation. I mean, surely if
you're offering endless exemptions from this arbitrary law that Pope
Francis came up with, that's where there seems to be
tending anyway.

Speaker 4 (02:54):
Yeah, there's a tension here, there's no question, and I
think we're going to have to keep our eyes out
for more of this, because it's clear that Leo wants
to at least present himself as very much in line
with his predecessor of Francis, with whom he was very close,
and so he's not going to just at this. You know,

(03:14):
it's only a few months that he's been in the
papacy reverse what was a very controversial decision on the
part of Pope frances to limit the traditional Latin Mass,
and they've got a lot of pushback all around the world,
and so it seems like this very language, these generous
permissions that are being talked about that can be even

(03:36):
renewed after two years, that on the one hand, he
doesn't want to formally abrogate traditionalist custodis, But on the
other hand, he wants to be kind of open to
the people who have been protesting and give them the
possibility of at least celebrating the Mass. I agree with
Father there. It would be much better, much simpler, much
more coherent to just abrogate it, but he would have

(03:57):
to kind of repudiate Francis, and I don't think that's
what he wants to do.

Speaker 2 (04:00):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (04:01):
Well, and as Father alluded to earlier, Cleveland and San
Angelo in the United States, they both got exemptions this year,
which does demonstrate this kind of a thawing under Pope Leo,
at least a willingness to hear the bishops out and
grant exemptions on a case by case basis to bishops.
Another indication that Leo might be willing to loosen these

(04:23):
restrictions placed by Pope Francis. On the Latin right, he
received the apostolic administrator of a Brazilian group called the
Personal Apostolic Administration of Saint John Mary Vienni. Now that
organization was established in two thousand and two under John Paul.
It has one sole purpose and that is a dedication

(04:45):
to the celebration of the traditional Latin Mass. Father, how
significant is that meeting given the news we're hearing out
of the UK.

Speaker 3 (04:54):
Now, it's significant because Bishop Rafon, who is the bishop
of that CANi established prelature, so to speak, administration, He
is seventy five years old, so he will need to
be replaced. So the question is will that administration continue
to be in existence and given a new bishop, or

(05:15):
will it be collapsed into the diocese Because there's an
interesting history there. The bishop of composts have been a
Bishop Castro Meyer who ordained many priests who wanted to
celebrate the Old Mass, and then there were lots of
those priests present in that diocese and John Polo second
regularized it. So there are a lot and a lot

(05:36):
of people in that diocese and that administration who want
to continue to go to the Latin Mass. I'm sure the
Holy Seat is going to make an arrangement. Whether they'll
continue to have their own separate bishops another question. We'll
see what the discussions lead to.

Speaker 1 (05:48):
Yeah, Bob, I want to move back now to one
of your favorite topics.

Speaker 2 (05:52):
I know something very dear to your heart.

Speaker 1 (05:55):
The interim reports of the Senate on Cinidality were released
this week. These study groups, now, these were reports initially
set to be released back in June, but the date
was extended because of the passing of Francis the election of.

Speaker 2 (06:08):
The new Pope.

Speaker 1 (06:09):
According to a report in the National Catholic Register, one
of the groups attached to the Dicast for the Doctrine
of Faith says their final report will quote reserve a
special word for the possibility of a women's diaconate.

Speaker 2 (06:26):
The group is.

Speaker 1 (06:27):
Also looking at accounts of women in church leadership, the
nature and exercise of ecclesial power, and what's described as
critical tensions regarding clericalism and male chauvinism. Bob, it feels
like they're leading the witnesses here. I mean, you know,
if I kept saying, well, Bob, give me examples of

(06:47):
male chauvinism that you've seen. I mean, no matter how
many times they're reminded that this is a closed case
on female ordination, this issue continues to be pushed and
studied and examined.

Speaker 4 (06:58):
Your thoughts if actually these reports are out early they
were supposed to, They were displaced in December, and now
they're already out in early November, and we're hearing other
reports that they're refusing to use the term controversial issues
and instead they're calling them emerging issues and such like. So,
I mean, there's a lot of languages that's trying to

(07:19):
shuffle the cards here. Look, I mean, we've talked about
this many times. The question of deacon is a theological question.
It's always been connected with deacon's, priests, bishops, you know,
the order of the hierarchy in the church. And so
there are certain activist elements in the church that want
to keep issues like this alive, like they want to
keep the LGBT conversation going with obviously you know, a goal.

(07:44):
Not immediately they know, but at some point it'll flip
the traditional teaching. I don't see that this is going
to go anywhere, and I have a feeling that it's
not likely to go anywhere.

Speaker 2 (07:54):
With Leo.

Speaker 4 (07:56):
Francis talked about making room for women in the church.
Leo has done the same thing. We may get what
is some sort of office that will be essentially deaconuses,
but it would really surprise me if Leo is to
allow this significant change in how we understand orders in

(08:16):
the church. It may happen. But I think the only
way we're going to know is to see what he decides.

Speaker 1 (08:22):
Well, Bob mentioned this idea, and you see the changing language.

Speaker 2 (08:27):
Father.

Speaker 1 (08:28):
They said that female ordination and homosexuality particularly were controversial issues.
That was the one that they now said, it's an
emerging issue. It's not controversial anymore. My question is to you,
has sinidelity come to mean we won't take no for
an answer when it comes to settled issues like essential
human morality and female ordination?

Speaker 3 (08:51):
Well, I think so. It's senidality means whatever the people
in charge tell us it means. In fact, that's the
big question here. After all these years of and adality,
none of us can specifically define it. We now have
a new word in one of the report's pastorality comes out,
which is what does that mean? It's sort of shorthand
for pastoral solutions, meaning solutions a contradict doctrine but are

(09:14):
good for the people, which, of course anything that contradicts
doctrines not good for the people. Now, I should know
these are called interim reports, and they refer that the
final reports are coming out in December. So for me,
it's a string. Why would these issued in November, and
I read them all the other day carefully. A lot
of them seem to have been written in the period
of July and August of this year, because some of

(09:38):
them referred to what they were going what the committees
will do in September.

Speaker 2 (09:42):
So I got, why is this?

Speaker 3 (09:43):
Why do we need interim reports six weeks before the
deadline for final reports? And they're kind of anodyne. They
don't say much, and they're also sad to say. They
reflect kind of the jargon excuse me of the faculty
lounge at universities where you talk about intersectionality and multi

(10:05):
lateral X y Z. This is more I hate to
say it, but this is the bureaucracy talking to itself
and letting us in on it to make us feel
that we're participants when they're all doing it all on
their own.

Speaker 1 (10:18):
Well, or another word for that might be pastorality. I mean,
we can make your words up so it doesn't matter.
Other groups submitted reports on quote priestly formation, the selection
of bishops who are a big deal in these reports,
the pastoral problem of polygamy in Africa, and the liturgy.
Most of these reports examined and called for what's called

(10:42):
here greater participation of the people of God, particularly women
and families, and they're connecting that to the process of
priestly formation and choosing bishops, so the laity and women
would have greater control, I guess over choosing bishops. The
Report on Liturgy raised about how the Church might promote

(11:02):
greater recognition of women within liturgical life, suggesting that women
are suffering discrimination. Bob, what do you make of these
patterns that we're seeing across all of these reports. Certainly
women's role in the church seems to be a fixation
of every one of these reports.

Speaker 4 (11:21):
Yeah, and I think that's something of a battering ram too.
It takes what is kind of a sensitive point in
secular political circles, and if you look at the general
tenure of where this tenor of where this is all going,
it clearly is an attempt to change institutions and the
way decisions are made. They keep denying this, They keep

(11:44):
talking about how this is really just you know, are
all going to be talking with one another. Everybody gets
a voice, but at the end of the day, with
his cash is out, and occasionally even the mask slips
a little bit, and they talk about changing structures, changing institutions,
changing decision processes. So look, it can start with this

(12:04):
and then if this conversation can overthrow as I was
saying earlier, this kind of traditional understanding of what ordination
means in the church. It's the first step towards something
that is much more radical and may extend to all
different parts of the church.

Speaker 1 (12:21):
Well, this is a good segue to a piece of
video I want to share with you, Father, The Secretary
General of the sin had released a video on their
social media and this is a fellow named Matt Krash.

Speaker 2 (12:33):
He's from Chicago.

Speaker 1 (12:34):
He's a member of the Bishop's Young Adult Multicultural Advisory Committee,
and he's the sonatyl coordinator for the Diocese of Gary.

Speaker 5 (12:43):
Watch for Cinidality to really take roots, you must realize
it's not just an organizational exercise, but that is really
a movement of the heart. So we're working to develop
resources and ways for people to enter into the spirituality
of sinidality, so that can begin with the interior version
of the heart and spread to our larger structures and

(13:04):
our organization as church.

Speaker 1 (13:06):
Father, I always recoil when anybody starts talking about remaking
structures as church.

Speaker 2 (13:12):
The Church is the body of Christ.

Speaker 1 (13:14):
But what is the spirituality of sinidelity any ideas?

Speaker 3 (13:19):
I have no idea except that I think it's a
mask for revolutionary activity. And in one of the documents
in this interim report, it refers to overcoming or to
the nature of resistance. Now, as soon as you say
someone with whom you're in dialogue is resisting you, then
you're basically saying you're not taking orders.

Speaker 2 (13:38):
You have to do that.

Speaker 3 (13:39):
When you say we have to have a conversion of heart,
what they're basically implying is some people don't love this stuff,
and they just start loving it, and when they do,
then we can all go on and change the structures.
And by the way, we as Catholics do not refer
to the church as a structure, and we don't refer
to the hierarchy as a structure. The doctrinal herodag is

(14:00):
not a structure. You want to talk about what the
church is. It's the mystical body of Christ, and Jesus
himself rules the church through the hierarchy. The church is
not ruled by the people electing Jesus to be in charge.
And the implication seems to be that we're at fault
if not everyone has to say and how the church

(14:22):
is governed. That's why I think this it's a manipulative tone,
by the way, to tell people your heart isn't ready
to accept what we're talking about. Leave that to me
to decide. Convince my brain as bet as you can
that your arguments hold water. And that really is what
I think we need to do. So that man, who

(14:44):
seems to be a very nice man, I applaud the
work he's doing for the church. But this is not
what sinidality should be. Sinidality, by the way, is a
meeting of bishops in order to advise the pope. That's
what sinidality is, according to the Second Vatican Council.

Speaker 2 (14:58):
Not to this.

Speaker 1 (15:00):
We've expanded this, Bob, we've expanded this thing into I mean,
it's basically silly putting. Now, now we have a spirituality
of sinidality with all due respect, what the hell does
that mean?

Speaker 4 (15:11):
Yeah, you know, this language about the heart, I mean,
Father is quite right. They're more or less telling you
you're heard hearted, you're rigid, you're not you're not willing
to accept the church of what's happening now. And this
language about the heart is actually a traditional language. You
see it in Saint Augustine. Unquiet is our heart until
it rests in thee. So the heart is actually directed

(15:32):
toward Christ. It's not directed towards cinidality or in Cardinal Newman.
Cardinal Newman, our recent doctor of the church, talks about cordlock,
which our heart speaks to heart. But what they mean
by that is something quite different than this. I mean,
we're in this kind of conversation and this guy does
seem to be a decent human being.

Speaker 2 (15:50):
Oh he's a nice man. He means fault him.

Speaker 4 (15:53):
But the heart here seems to be involved in a
kind of a political for me, you know, almost like
a struggle I don't want to say quite struggle session
in the communist sense. But there's a sense that somehow
sinidelity ought to be moving you in a certain direction.
It says, if no one ever talked to anyone else

(16:14):
before cinidality was put out, you know, formally, is what
the form of the church should be today and forever.
And so you know, it's unfortunate, but we can use
language of the heart. But the language of the heart,
as in the tradition in Augustine and Newman has to
be the heart that's being converted. We never hear in
these documents about what is the purpose of Christianity? What

(16:35):
did God become man to overcome our fall? The sin
that is in us and redeem us? Where is that
in any of these documents that I actually I actually
put a word search. I search for this term sin
in these documents, and it comes up in combinations of

(16:56):
words that have sin in them, like sincere or so.
The words sin as such never appears, redeem never appears,
salvation never appears. So whatever this heart is isn't it
isn't much pushing what the very purpose of Christianity and
God's incarnation in the world was all about.

Speaker 1 (17:15):
Well, and spirituality points to an object, the sacred heart
of Jesus, Marian spirituality, eucharistic spirituality, a sinatyl spirituality. So
listening and talking is now its own spirituality. There's something
very odd that's being created before our eyes.

Speaker 2 (17:35):
And I think we've been.

Speaker 1 (17:36):
Talking about this for years, But as it tries to
concretize itself, it's getting more and more I guess, absurd,
as it gets closer to hardening.

Speaker 2 (17:47):
According to W.

Speaker 1 (17:48):
T AND's Hannah Brakhovs, one of these sonatyl study groups,
no doubt, acting as church, attempted to survey lay people
on how to enhance their participation in the selection Catholic bishops.

Speaker 2 (18:01):
Quote.

Speaker 1 (18:02):
In total, fifteen out of thirty three late persons responded.
These groups will continue to meet and deliberate into twenty
twenty six.

Speaker 2 (18:11):
Is anyone paying attention, father, and is this the role
of the laity to participate in the selection of Catholic bishops.

Speaker 3 (18:19):
Well, in the historical evolution of the Church, the selection
of bishops did involve at certain periods popular acclamation, but
that was at the very beginning of the church and
before the hierarchical structures were established and all the rest.
Over time, kings and potentates took over the naming of
bishops and that caused the investiture controversy, a big problem

(18:41):
in the Middle Ages. At the Council of Trent, reforms
were put in and the Holy See began a much
more vigorous prosecution. Let's say of the case that the
Roman pontiffs should name bishops in the Latin Church and
approve them in the Eastern Catholic churches. So why would
lay people be involved in this selection of bishops as

(19:04):
a canon law, I can say they're involved in as
much as they're consulted. And I think it is a
good idea about if you have a candidate for bishop,
that the Holy See sent confidential surveys to lay people
in addition to priests in order to gaine the character
and knowledge and experience of a man. But the idea
that you would allow groups of lay people to publicly

(19:27):
get involved in their diocese to naming bishops, that will
be chaotic. But that's in there. And this is a
problem because, by the way, many bishops are not from
the diocese that they get named to, because the Holy
See and its wisdom and experience has determined that in
many cases it's better to bring a priest or a
bishop from elsewhere into the diocese. So if I can

(19:50):
just make a sidebar, I've said it all along. The
goal of senidality is lay governance in the church, and
lay governance in the church contradicts the hierarchical nature of
the Church. The Church is not an association of like
minded people who decide that we want to set up
a structure with pope, bishops and priests, but that it's
us doing the work it's the other way around. God

(20:12):
established the church, he named the shepherds, he named the
chief shepherd, the apostles, who ordained their successors and priests,
and the power of governance is an aspect of pastoral care.
It's not essentially about who gets to make decisions. It's
about God through the Holy Spirit, guiding the chosen and
ordained men who served the church. And the fact that

(20:33):
women can't participate in it. Don't blame the church, blame
God because Jesus never picked a woman to be a bishop,
priest or deacon.

Speaker 2 (20:42):
That's it.

Speaker 3 (20:43):
That's nothing against women. Women run the world in my opinion.

Speaker 1 (20:47):
All right, well in many cases that they run the
parishes to Father and the face it.

Speaker 3 (20:53):
I deal with more women volunteers in my forty years
of the priesthood than any of the people would believe.
Getting a man to help a parish priest, you know,
that's like selling ice to Eskimodes is not that easy.

Speaker 1 (21:05):
Well, you know what, but it needs to happen if
men should be more involved in parish life, and I
hope in time they will. Otherwise this whole thing's going
to turn into like a some kind of pseudo parliament.

Speaker 2 (21:18):
You know called the SONADL way, and I don't.

Speaker 1 (21:22):
I guess the priest becomes an employee of the Sonadl
council meeting in you know, the.

Speaker 2 (21:26):
San Hadrian meeting in the parish.

Speaker 1 (21:28):
All but there's a related story here and it's typical
of all things SONADL.

Speaker 2 (21:33):
Infovaticano dot com.

Speaker 1 (21:36):
Reports this week, and we've seen this in person, guys,
we saw this during the conclavet Saint Peter's Basilica is
recently set up what it calls listening spaces inside the basilica.

Speaker 2 (21:47):
Here's a photo.

Speaker 1 (21:48):
I'm senior in charge of the maintenance of Saint Peter says.
The listening spaces are available to worshippers and visitors. They
provide quote, a place for dialogue and spiritual accompaniment, offering
everyone the opportunity to quote, pause and be listened to,
whether by priests, nuns, or lay people trained in pastoral service. Bob,

(22:12):
weren't these things once called confessionals?

Speaker 4 (22:16):
Well, I've been to confession several times in Saint Peter's
and it's a great experience. It's actually very crowded too.
It's very hard to get into those confession booths at times,
especially during years like this when you had to jail
going on well, I mean, one of the look it's
it's not entirely wrong what they're saying that they're trying
to do. But if you look at those so called,

(22:36):
I don't know, reception booths, and a priest i know
said to me they kind of look like a men's
toilet in an airport. You know, they're they're they're white,
and they've got this funny kind of configuration. It doesn't
seem to fit at all in Saint Peter's, in that
beautiful baroque splendor of Saint Peter's. I mean, if you
wanted to have this, there could probably be another way

(22:58):
to do it. And they're kind of sitting out, it seems,
in the middle of nowhere. And this is very inviting.
I'm in general in favor of these days of trying
to get people to talk with people in the church,
and that that that impulse is not necessarily a bad thing.
But the way this is being carried out it kind
of strikes me is we've kind of lost this sense

(23:21):
of Catholicity, the depth of what Catholicity is, the beauty
of it, the richness of how you approach people. It's
at the same kind of superficial level that everything else
in society is taking place in and you can you
actually convey a lot to people by the way things
look and the way you approach them as much as

(23:43):
what you actually say to them. So I applaud the effort,
but I don't applaud the actual execution of what.

Speaker 1 (23:50):
The father If they're not Sonadal confessionals, I mean, can't
people be listened to it? Other institutions that predate sonatas
speak like a coffee shopper on the street.

Speaker 3 (24:02):
Yeah, well, I mean I agree with Bob the impulse,
I think is good to listen to people, But why
don't you simply deploy priests, nuns or brothers who are
visibly identifiably you know, missionaries of the church at the
entrance to Saint Peter's are in the back and say,
would you like to talk about what this is? You
like to talk about Christ in the church. But you know,

(24:23):
the danger here will be, of course, that this will
become like the complaint department or the free counseling department.
And then what about the language issue? I mean, who's
going to be able to do all that? And You're right,
Bob's pound point is profound. How things look communicate what
you're doing, and those basically they ape kind of like

(24:45):
a semi private confessional. But this but with the twenties
first century, look, I thought we were in this Bacilica
Saint Peter's. I mean, they could have done something a
little better. But no, let's let's see where it goes.
But I think other means could be better.

Speaker 1 (25:04):
Well, yeah, I just don't know why you have a
listening station in the middle of an aisle with tourists
packing in to see the Pieta. I mean, well, it's
literally steps away from that. It's right near the Blessed
Sacrament chapel there at Saint Peter's. So it's an odd placement,
but it's a weird thing to have, Like you can't
listen outside of this box.

Speaker 2 (25:25):
I don't understand that.

Speaker 4 (25:26):
But anyway, I mean that's another small point. If you
look at the pictures of that, on the outside, the
sign says welcome in Italian and in English. Yeah, so
already it's like, you know, we've kind of reduced things
down to these two languages, which we know are actually
quite important and we probably want to talk at some
point among ourselves about the use of English that the

(25:47):
Pope is not practicing, even when he's talking to movie
stars from California and others who don't really speak Italian
and say, hey, that was wonderful, but I didn't understand
a word.

Speaker 1 (25:58):
He said, yeah, well we should touch on that, and
this is about the Pope speaking out, so maybe we
can circle back to that. Pope Leo this week once
again exiting Costal Gondolfo in what's becoming the papal plane
ride to Pope Francis. Pope Leo uses this exit from
Costal Gondolfo each week to address.

Speaker 2 (26:18):
The press gaggle.

Speaker 1 (26:20):
He did so this week about the situation of Christians
in Nigeria, given the attention paid to it by President
Trump and the Secretary of what Pete Hegseeth.

Speaker 2 (26:30):
The Pope said this.

Speaker 6 (26:32):
I think in Nigeria, in certain areas, there is certainly
danger for Christians, but for all people. Christians and Muslims
have been slaughtered. There's a question of terrorism. There's a
question of that has to do a lot with economics,
if you will, in control of the lands that they have. Unfortunately,
many Christians have died and I think it's very important

(26:54):
to seek away the government with all peoples to promote
authentic religion freedom.

Speaker 2 (27:01):
Bob, you followed this story for a long time.

Speaker 1 (27:03):
Your reaction to Leo's comments here and does the genocide
we're seeing in Nigeria, does it have a lot to
do with economics and control of the land.

Speaker 4 (27:13):
I don't believe, so, you know, I've said this before,
but everything he said is true. It's true that some Muslims,
a moderate so called moderate Muslims are being slaughtered by
the radical groups like Boko Haram and the Islamic State
in Western and Western Africa Province and others, you know,
And there's that problem. There's also a problem of a

(27:34):
land clash between cattle raisers who tend to be Muslim
and farmers who tend to be Christian. But all this
is really a side issue. If it's true that Muslims
are killed in Nigeria, and it's true, the proportion is
probably six times is great for Christians, and the Christian
element is really pursued. I mean, churches are burned, schools

(27:58):
are ransacked, children are kidnapped. These are all things that
I think the church has to point to specifically. Now,
Leo was trying to spread some oil on the waters
and calm things down, and we understand that that's what
it is about. But we've been losing really not only
a defense of our own people, but it's a bold
statement of the truth of what's going on there, that

(28:20):
there is a tremendous slaughter of Christians going on. Probably
in this year alone, ten thousand Christians will be killed
in Nigeria, more than in all the rest of the
world combined. And the statistics are hard to find, but
I think that that's the most legitimate kind of the
range finding of where it's about. And we really ought
to say that. I think we need church leaders, not

(28:42):
only people like me and you, Raymond and others, but
church leaders need to say, hey, wait a minute, our
people are being slaughtered there, and they can't spread out
the blame with all these other things. Climent they even
invoke climate change. Is if climate change is a major
factor and Christians being martyred, it's preposterous.

Speaker 1 (29:01):
Now, and Father the Pope did mention terrorism, but again
this is like George Bush mentioning terrorism. There are people
who are agents of the terrorism and unless you're willing
to identify them. You can't fight an idea, you have
to fight against an aggressor.

Speaker 3 (29:17):
No, it's very true, and it's interesting because the Pope
at the end of it brings up the topic of
religious liberty. But in the first part of his statement
he says, this isn't really about religion because both sides
are being killed. By implication, he means the Christians being
killed by Muslims, Muslims by Christians. Well, Christians are not
killing the Muslims, as Bob says, it's moderate Muslims because
Bokoharram their first enemy is moderate Islamic people, and Christians

(29:41):
fall into that category. And then you know, secondly, if
I can go back to just even the premise, I
think Pope Leo is diving into some very troubled warders
here by giving these weekly or bi weekly press conferences.
Because the media, they will cover the Catholic Church when
it's in their interest and what is in their interest
fresh news of a controversial nature. And if Pope Leo

(30:04):
keeps meeting on this regular basis, and let me say this,
I'll praise him for taking a day off. The reason
he's in Galca. Gondolpho is They've got a tennis court
there and a swimming pool. And I'm a priest, and
I know priests are under a lot of pressure. The
Pope is under enormous pressure. He needs a day off.
But make it a complete day off. Don't talk to
the media. And when you want to make a press conference,

(30:25):
well then do it on your own terms. Don't do
it at night with cameras and lights and you're standing
there and you can hear the report and you got
to jump from languages. Do it yourself in the Apostolic palace.
Have the questions given, and know what the answers are
going to be ahead of time because you're able to
study them. The great trap here is someone says something,
the Pope says something that he didn't expect, you know,

(30:47):
and it gives an answer that wasn't expected. At boom,
you got a major world controversy. We don't need that.
That's not what I think the post should do.

Speaker 2 (30:55):
Yeah, and Bob, his father, alludes to there.

Speaker 1 (30:57):
I mean the Pope's comments are being used with a
political end in the United States and globally.

Speaker 2 (31:05):
I mean he was asked his thoughts in.

Speaker 1 (31:06):
The same press or in the same press gaggle on
his way out of cost of Gondolfo. He's asked about
the immigration controversy in the United States. Now, the right
answer is, oh, the US bishops are taking care of that.

Speaker 2 (31:19):
God bless you all. That's the right answer.

Speaker 1 (31:22):
But in light of the US bishop's statement on the
US immigration enforcement at their full meeting last week, which
we covered, here's what the Pope said.

Speaker 6 (31:31):
I appreciate very much what the bishops have said. I
think it's a very important statement. I would invite especially
all Catholics, but people of goodwill to listen carefully to
what they said. I think we have to look for
ways of treating people humanly, treating people with the dignity
that they have. If people are in the United States illegally,

(31:54):
there are ways to treat that. There are courts, there's
a system of justice. I think there are are a
lot of problems in the system. No one has said
that the United States should have open borders. I think
every country has a right to determine who and how
and when people enter. But when people are living good lives,

(32:15):
and many of them for ten, fifteen, twenty years, to
treat them in a way that is extremely disrespectful, Bob.

Speaker 1 (32:24):
He seems to be echoing the royal doctrine on this
that you've been articulating here for several weeks. If they've
been here for ten or twenty years, we should do
something as opposed to people who just came into the country.

Speaker 2 (32:36):
But why is he getting into immigration policy at all?

Speaker 4 (32:41):
Yeah, well, climate and immigration. We know that those are
the two things that every recent pope is or at
least the pastory popes have considered to be really high
profile things that they need to address. And look, I
wanted to defend myself here because Ronald Reagan said the
same thing back in the nineteen eighties. People who've been
I put it this way, the people who have been

(33:03):
allowed into the country and have lived here for years,
our country has a certain moral responsibility towards them because
now they have families, they have friends, jobs, you know,
they're kind of integrated into the society. It's a problem.
And I've been telling the bishops this for years. They've
invited me a couple of times to speak to them
about this. And you know, at that point, since we

(33:24):
now do have a moral responsibility, I think that the
more recent people who were just let in in hordes
by the Biden administration and particularly the criminals. I mean,
that's an entirely different class of people. I think we
have to figure out in our political debates what to
do about them. The criminals should absolutely go. And look,
it's easy, We've said this before. It's easy to put

(33:46):
together video clips that show our enforcement being pretty rough.
Tom Homan is a pretty rough character, but you've got
to be a rough character to deal with these criminals
who are just monsters. I mean, they're human trafficking, they're
drug trafficking, they're murderers, et cetera. That that's not just
a hype by Trump. That's the reality on the ground.

(34:08):
And so I don't think that I think our bishops
tried to be balanced that they talked in the same
terms about the country has a right to control its borders,
but how about controlling who is in the country illegally
At the same time. I'm all for being compassionate and
trying to work these things up, but look, our court
system is already overwhelmed with the number of illegals that

(34:31):
there are in the country. So what Leo said is
true in an ideal world, but in the United States,
right now, because of failures on the part of our
own government, we don't have that luxury. We really have
to deal with the situation in a way that is
a little bit unusual. But what else are you going
to do when you have ten million illegals suddenly coming

(34:52):
into a country and it's unprecedented the situation that we
find ourselves in. So look, he's waiting into something that's
very complicated. As our bishops have they mean, well, but
I'm not sure they've taken the full measure of the problem.

Speaker 1 (35:07):
Yeah, well, father, I mean that's the real when you
say we need to treat immigrants humanely, putting them in
servitude to a cartel that brought them here, that they
paid through the nose to get to our shores, there's
nothing humane about that. And allowing lawlessness and people to
just overstay visas and take resources from the people that

(35:28):
have paid into the system, or our American poor that
need these resources, that's not humane, that's not treating people humanly.
I mean, the Pope did mention every country has the
right to determine who and how and when people enter.
So the question is why are they so focused then
on aliens coming into the United States and aiding them
in flouting the US law.

Speaker 3 (35:50):
Well, I'm not sure you know all of the motivations,
but I can say that, yeah, we want humane treatment.
But the answer is arresting someone who has illegally entered
the country overstated their visa. Is that an innu main action?
And I say it's not. Now as regards you Maine actions,
the federal government has voluntary repatriation, which they'll pay for
your flight back to your country, and they will not

(36:10):
prohibit you from reapplying for illegal entrance. For me, that's
extremely humane. The United States could have basically said, nobody
gets out of here on our dime. We're going to
arrest you and then we'll ship you out in our
cargo plane. Kind of arrangements, you know, which we saw
when all those criminals were sent down to El Salvador. No,

(36:31):
we're saying we'll put you on a flight, you can
go to your house. Now. I agree with Bob that
it considering the cases on a mere fifteen twenty years
should be different than someone who was arrived here as
part of a drug cartel or something like that. But
those are specifics that require the people who run the
country to be lobbied and vote for and all the rest,

(36:55):
and to just simply say, well, since they've been here
twenty years, please don't arrest them. No, that's how you
can the situation. And you know, I remember the Reagan
thing that Bob spoke about, and what were people doing.
They were trying to prove they're here that long. But
what it did was it propelled a whole other generation
of people to cross the border because they were incentivized
by the idea that they could be illegally present in

(37:15):
the country and not be evicted. Right, So these are
the kind of complications that happen. And then you know,
with all due respect to the Holy Father and the
Holy See, the Vatican City state does not have a
refugee program. They do not have an illegal alien problem
because it's illegal to remain in the country. You have
to be sympathetic and say, if it doesn't work in

(37:35):
Vatican City, it's not going to work in other places.

Speaker 1 (37:38):
Yeah, And their fines and jail time attached to breaking
acrossing the Vatican City's borders and doing so illegally.

Speaker 2 (37:46):
So, I mean, it's very odd.

Speaker 1 (37:49):
This whole scene is very odd, and how it's become
the overarching teaching, if you will, eating up all of
this public space by the Holy Father and the bishops.
They want this to be, for whatever reason, the centerpiece
of Catholic thought and articulation. And I just think people
are hurting and yearning for something far deeper, far more profound,

(38:12):
and something that touches their lives, mainly Jesus Christ and
his sealvific message. I wasn't going to do this story
at all, but I have to do it because it
was covered so widely in the media this week. Pope
Leo hosted a luncheon for the Jubilee of the Poor
on November sixteenth, and in attendance were forty eight transgender women.

(38:33):
That's what the Washington Post described these people as. Now,
this carries on a tradition established by Pope Francis years ago.
The controversy, according to the Washington Post, is that none
of these forty eight people were seated at the main
table with the Pope as they had been in years past. Father,
your thoughts on this story and the outreach to the trans.

Speaker 3 (38:55):
Community, Well, you know, this is a complicated story because
because it goes back to Pope Francis, and there is
a nun who works with basically male transvestites who are
often in prostitution, and she's trying to help them, but
their help does not extend to them renouncing this myth
that you can turn yourself into a woman by dressing

(39:17):
up and changing your hair and makeup. Now, apparently this
group was invited by a parish priest who does similar work,
and I understand that the Holy See gave out tickets
to parishes and groups and that they was up to
them to who they were going to invite. So it
wasn't so much that the Holy See was giving a
direct invitation, but it was all in the media that
they were coming, and the Holy See basically said, all right,

(39:39):
bring them here. That's a lack of charity. They do
not these people who are involved in sexual immorality, illegal
behavior with prostitution, and then just destructive self misidentification to say,
if I dress like a woman, you have to treat
me like a woman.

Speaker 4 (39:58):
I want to.

Speaker 3 (39:58):
Treat you the way God made you, which is you're
son of God, and the sons of God don't act
in this way. The Holy Scene needs to do more
of that. So yeah, again, just the overall thing, and
you were referring to it. People look to the Vatican
to find the kind of stuff the Mother Angelica and
other broadcasters of the Catholic faith have been giving for

(40:20):
the last fifty years, which is, how do I get
to heaven and how do I have a good life
on the way. That's what we need to be talking about,
not how do we satisfy the agenda of the United Nations,
the European Union, the sexual revolution, the trans revolution, all
of this stuff. People are fed up with this. Why
is it that Catholic parents have to deal with local

(40:41):
school boards when men go into girls' locker rooms. Well,
it happens because authority figures in the world say this
is good. And when the Church doesn't contradict them, they
smile and they say, look, even your pope has transvestites
coming here. They don't go on transvestites, they're call them transgender.
So the pope can have lunch with the transgender Why
can't your daughter have a trend in her locker room?

(41:01):
That's how these people argue.

Speaker 1 (41:04):
Bob Any reaction to this story, I mean, boy, it
got a lot of coverage.

Speaker 4 (41:08):
First of all, I want to say, of a party,
amen to what fathers just said, it leaves it leaves
you almost speechless, doesn't doesn't it. You know, I read
some reports that some of these trans women were activists,
and this to me always seems to be a problem
because Pope Francis, I think when he would meet with

(41:31):
trans people thought he was it was like Jesus meeting
with tax collectors and prostitutes. That these are people who
are outcast, and so he's trying to draw them in.
And I mean, we could have hoped that he was
evangelizing them, but you know, who knows where that actually went.
But just the media reaction to this is quite interesting.
The fact that these trans people, whatever we want to

(41:54):
call them, were not seated at the head table with
the Pope Is. He was regarded by them as some
kind of outrage, and it was reported as such in
the media of it. You know, they they get the
impression that they have a right to be at the table,
and that to me is the bigger problem than the

(42:15):
just the fact of that they're being there, Because the
activists are not simply people who are being evangelized. They
come with an agenda, and so the fact that they
are in the room and then maybe they're sitting at
the head table with the Pope. They kind of regard
this as a validation, as father rightly says, and so
that spreads out into society. The media love to run
with stories like this. This creates a moral confusion in

(42:39):
an attempt to do something that's generous, and you know,
reaching out to the marginal creates a moral confusion that
really it kind of echoes throughout the entire church. So
I think if Leo wants to bring clarity and decorum
back to the church, which he could clearly talks about,
one of the things he has to do is to

(42:59):
get events like this, get a grip on events like this.
And it's not going to be easy because there are
these There seems to be an attempt to point fingers
that it's other people who are responsible for this, and
I guess it's true in this instance, but you need
to get a grip on this. I mean, you don't
need to kind of send the message to the people
who are putting those tickets out and the people who

(43:20):
were distributing them to say, yeah, okay, there's a limit
though on who we are going to allow into the room.

Speaker 1 (43:26):
Well, I mean, look, we talked about this earlier My
concern is you're in the business of saving souls, and
you're allowing your public capital, if you will, to be
gobbled up by people hijacking your agenda, like this story,
which is a non story as far as I'm concerned.

Speaker 2 (43:45):
When I first read it, I'm like, who cares?

Speaker 1 (43:47):
But you have activists who are friends in newsrooms who
are willing to cover this stuff, So it gets blown
up into a different meaning. So the Pope had a
dinner with poor people and it turns into a disc
for a group that felt they should be at the
head table. But I think somehow the narrative is being
lost by the Church and the Pope in this jubilee year,

(44:09):
and everybody else is using them to promote climate change
and immigration enforcement and sexual agendas. Last weekend, popely O
met with members of the film industry there Spike Lee
and Kate Blanchett and others, and he told them, your
job as storytellers is to rediscover a portion of the
hope that is essential for humanity to live to the fullest.

(44:32):
Father the Pope called these artists to tell stories of redemption.
But what was your reaction to his overall message?

Speaker 3 (44:39):
I read the message and I had to say the
message was full of praise for an industry that promotes
immorality on a regular basis, and there was no rebuke
for the disedification and the scandal that's so wal from
the company's Hollywood movies.

Speaker 2 (44:54):
There was.

Speaker 3 (44:55):
I have to say, there was a sense that the
Pope was like starstruck by having these people there. The
talk was not fatherly and serious enough, from my opinion,
because it went on with kind of speculations about the
nature of the film industry and what it does. And
you know, datily, this was written by someone else, but
you know, the Pope's reading it becomes his. Look, I

(45:16):
love movies. We've had over the years discussions about movies
and music and all that. I mean, Broadway is wonderful.
I'm not against entertainment, but you know, growing up in
the sixties and seventies as a kid, I said to
them myself, now, wait a minute, where is the movie
industry going? And the movie industry the trajectory has been horrible.
That's when X rated and R rated movies came into business.

(45:39):
We know now that pornography is the biggest media reality
on a dollar term in the United States and in
the world, and we have enormous resources being you know,
poured into stuff that's drawing souls to hell.

Speaker 2 (45:52):
There was no reference to any of.

Speaker 3 (45:53):
That in the Pope's talk, so I think it could
have been done nicely or rebuked and say, you know,
talking about the integrity of the human person also means
we respect the nature of male female and the intimacy
of marriage. These have to be respected in entertainment otherwise
it's exploitative. And by the way, how much of Hollywood
is now exploitative of different groups.

Speaker 1 (46:15):
Well, Bob, it's interesting that the Pope gave a list
of his favorite movies. You know, none of them were
before forty years ago. I mean, they're all ancient movies.
I mean are two generations removed. And the other interesting
thing is when you compare that address to John Paul
the Second's Letter to Artists, which I remember he giving

(46:35):
me a copy of, and when you read that, you
know he's calling you to be the next Michelangelo and
Caravaggio and to draw you to the truths and the
majesty and the.

Speaker 2 (46:44):
Mystery of God and his plan. That's not what this
message was. It all.

Speaker 1 (46:49):
This was basically about let's keep theaters open and no
AI in movies.

Speaker 4 (46:52):
Yeah, I have to say, I'm not a movie fan,
so afterything that I'm saying is I'm going to say
is prejudiced by you know, starting from that premise. But yeah,
I mean, look, he talked about, you know, very safe
movies that he liked. It's a wonderful life and life beautiful. Yeah,
you light, life is beautiful, and look that's great. I

(47:14):
mean it's kind of anodyne, but it's it's fine, it's encertaining,
you can watch it for a while. But I mean
what we've had in movies since then, of course, has
been very very different. My wife and I when we
go to the films, we instantly noticed there always has
to be a homosexual or a lesbian character, or a
relationship or you know, something that is just a matter

(47:36):
of course. It seems to be de rigueur for the
the industry these days. Now. You know, you did, and
you do invite people into your house, and to kind
of rebuke them in a harsh way would be probably wrong.
But he could have really done more. It wasn't terrible,
It just wasn't very good. It just didn't didn't didn't.
It didn't give you an aspiration to anything higher, as

(47:59):
you rightly say, Ram. And the difference is, I think
that Pope John Paul the second was an actor and
he was a poet. He was a very good poet
at times in his work. I've actually written a couple
of essays about him. So he understood the potential that
exists in art in a way that I think very
few others think. Better take an inkling of this as well,

(48:20):
because he loved music so much. But they were different persons.
I don't think that Leo, at least as far as
we can judge so far, is kind of in that category.
So it's not surprising that either his ghost writer or
he himself did not aspire tom more. But you're not right.
I mean, look the great art that the Church has
produced over centuries, and some of the participants talked about this,

(48:44):
about the richness of the Catholic cultural tradition in addition
to the spiritual, theological, moral tradition, is really quite remarkable.
And that's what I think they were moved by just
being there whatever the pope said, because he spoke Italian
and they didn't understand what he was saying. Anyone.

Speaker 1 (49:00):
Well, that was I mean, that's what I frankly found annoying,
because I think for a lot of those artists it
would have been helpful to have his guidance. For instance,
the thing I always noticed the violence in movies and
on television.

Speaker 2 (49:12):
The reckless killing.

Speaker 1 (49:14):
You're teaching generations of children and young people get what
you want by killing people, and justice really comes through
killing somebody. I mean, that's in almost every movie. There
could have been something about that, about the need for redemption,
possibility and citing great movies. None of that was really touched.
So I thought it was kind of, like you said,
a missed opportunity. And maybe it's just that he's on

(49:36):
the carousel of the Jubilee events that he can't get
off and that Pope Francis program, and maybe these speeches
have been written for months or years and he's just
kind of working through the deck, praying that January will
come quickly so he can move on and do what he.

Speaker 2 (49:51):
Needs to do. We'll see.

Speaker 1 (49:53):
Following last week's show on the rise of young people
returning to the Church, which if you haven't watched, you should,
the New York Post is reporting that in New York City, Father,
they're seeing a spike in the number of converts becoming
Catholic or wanting to become Catholic. The Post found that
multiple New York City Catholic churches have seen double or

(50:13):
even triple the number of adults signing up convert classes
in the past year or so. This trend seems to
be following an overall increase nationwide, and The New York
Times reports this week a similar surge in Orthodox Christianity. Father,
you're a priest in the archdiocese. What do you make
of these trends? Are you hearing or seeing this from

(50:34):
your brother priests?

Speaker 3 (50:36):
Well, I'm certainly seeing this in the parish is run
by the Dominican Fathers, because those are heavily featured in
this article. Of the Dominican Priests, the Order of Preachers.
Saint Dominic founded the group. They're outstanding for their scholarship.
There's Apostolic zeal they're preaching, They're very well educated and
they're available. So they run the Saint Joseph's Church in

(50:59):
the Greenwich Village, which handles NYU. You're very familiar with
that parish. I know they do at Saint Vincent Ferrara
where their provincial headquarters are on the East side of Manhattan. Now,
they're wonderful priests, and well, their availability is not the
whole answer. The other is, so many people come to
New York to work from all over the country, and
they're all different religions. And when you come to New

(51:21):
York and you encounter a priest such as the Dominicans,
and there are many others diocesan priests included, at least
we have a system to help them. And that's what
I'm really happy about. Because the Dominicans that produce so
many vocations, there are plenty of priests that go around
in their apostolates. So yeah, all I can say is
the Holy Spirit never stops. You know. Mother Angelic was

(51:42):
big on that. You know, the Holy Spirit is working.
We just got to find out what he's doing.

Speaker 2 (51:47):
Well, Father and Bob.

Speaker 1 (51:49):
Even Old Saint Patrick's down, which is you know, also
is near NYU, they are seeing hundreds of converts, kids
wanting to convert to the church. Now, the assassination of
Charlie Kirk certainly is a catalyst for this. You hear
that anecdotally, But what do you think is driving these
young people into the arms of Catholicism and Orthodoxy.

Speaker 4 (52:12):
It's a different world than the world that they're living in,
and they know that the world that they're living in
is not a good world. I mean, you hear this
from kids that are in their twenties and thirties that
they can't get married because they can't find people that
they want to spend their lives with. They don't seem
to know what to do with their lives. I mean,
most people are going to just get if they're going

(52:33):
to have fulfilling lives. They're going to have a good
marriage or a decent marriage, and they're going to have
a decent job that enables them to take care of
their family and to contribute to the society. Those are
the two basic things that happen. And then they want
a faith life. They want to know that this life
isn't the it isn't the end when you die. And
you know, look, this is a sensitive issue, but let

(52:53):
me just try to parse this out. We see these
huge numbers of people coming into these relatively orthodox I'm
a third order Dominicans, so I'm partisan to the Dominicans
in New York, and I think they've got beautiful churches
and activity. But they're going to those places, and there
are people like Charlie Kirk who were kept away from

(53:13):
the Catholic Church because they thought that the church was
confused under Pope Frances let's speak frankly about this as
to a number of things that he thought were important.
So there's a balance here. Of course, you have to
go after all the lost sheep and the trans people
and everything else. But the church really should be putting
its energy. It needs numbers, It needs the kind of

(53:35):
energetic and productive and creative people that seem to come
to places like the Dominicans have. The Church really needs
to put a lot of effort into drawing them as well.
Not just the you know, the outliers, but how about
the mainstream of what people in society are going to be,
The people who are going to be that middle class.
I mean, we've all lived through this. The people who

(53:57):
just love the church to bits and they centered them
whole life around it, and everything else comes together because
the church seems to work for them. That's if we
want to talk about cinideality. I think that that's a
part of cinidality that's been tremendously neglected. We're talking about
the peripheries all the time, But what about the what
about main street? What about the main road of the church, right,

(54:19):
it has to be attended to as well.

Speaker 1 (54:20):
Yeah, No, your core audience, you know, there's in the
Catholic Church, and it's something I've seen. You see it
in magazines, you see it in broadcast outlets and podcasts.
There's a there's almost a revulsion of the natural audience
for what you do and the programming, whether it be
church services or people that are booked or shows, they

(54:44):
actually are created to repel the audience and attract some
imaginary one. So the people that would normally fill your
pews in a Catholic church, why wouldn't you seek those
people out and throw a welcome that out to them.
Why are you going to people who frankly will never
come around to you. They're waiting for you to come
around to them, and the church simply can't. And I

(55:07):
think somehow the church has lost its way and the
orthodoxy thing that I read in that piece, I think
my personal opinion of that is people come into the
Catholic Church they read about the church. A lot of
these young people are readers who have found their way
in through the Internet or through podcasts, they educate themselves
and then the church they find is not the church

(55:28):
they've read about, so they're looking for that church.

Speaker 2 (55:31):
Father, I'll give you the last word.

Speaker 3 (55:32):
Yeah, no, you're absolutely right about that. And you know,
if you go to a Paris and Father Friendly is there,
and you know, has sister get reading and reading a
homily at Mass or doing some other strange and liturgic collaborration.
What's not to like about going to you know, a
Greek Orthodox divine liturgy where the priest pays little or

(55:54):
no attention to what you're doing because he's focused on
celebrating this divine liturgy. And it certainly there's no innovations
of that sort. Yeah, let me just throw I mean,
Bob said, is magnificent. Your points are right on target.
The Catholic Church is not a human institution in the
first place, and we forget that all the time. It

(56:16):
is the mystical body of Christ. Our duty is to
convey what Jesus gave the apostles and the disciples in
a new environrant way, answering new questions.

Speaker 2 (56:25):
How do we do that?

Speaker 3 (56:26):
Saint John the Baptist said it, well, I must disappear,
he must increase. So when through the liturgy, through the doctrine,
through the discipline, all of that, that's how you tell people, hey,
we're just here as servants. Focus on Jesus. The Holy
Spirit will guide you. And where that's done is in
these Dominican parish is having a great effect.

Speaker 4 (56:47):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (56:48):
Well, look, Thanksgiving is almost upon us here in the
United States. I want to get Thanksgiving for you all,
for the clarity of your voices, and to the audience
that joins us every week. Thank you all will be
off next week for Thanksgiving. Father has to celebrate Masses
and Bob has a concerto to right. But I want

(57:09):
to thank the Posse for being here. The Arroyo Grande
Prayerful Posse is always available to you subscribe at a
Royal Grande show on YouTube or a Royal Grande.

Speaker 2 (57:19):
Podcast wherever you get yours on ma hahf of Robert Royal,
Father Gerald Murray.

Speaker 1 (57:23):
Until the Posse rides again, stay the course, follow the light.

Speaker 2 (57:27):
I'm Raimond Arroyo say it next time.

Speaker 1 (57:30):
Arroyo Grande is produced in partnership with iHeart Podcasts and
is available on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get
your podcasts,