In this episode of The Prayerful Posse, Raymond Arroyo and Father Gerald Murray dive into some of the most pressing challenges facing the Catholic Church today. From the shocking dismissal of faithful professors at St. Mary Seminary to explosive allegations of new financial scandals inside the Vatican, the Posse tackles the stories making headlines and shaking the faithful.
Father Murray offers sharp insights into why respected Catholic scholars like Ralph Martin and Ed Peters may have been purged, raising urgent questions about transparency, freedom of thought, and fidelity to the Magisterium. The discussion also unpacks a leaked memo tied to Cardinal George Pell’s financial oversight efforts and the troubling history of Vatican banking irregularities.
The episode then turns to the Vatican’s attempt to engage young people through “digital missionaries” and influencer culture, with Father Murray questioning whether self‑styled online personalities are truly advancing the faith. Plus, the Posse addresses the Trump administration’s push to expand religious freedom in the workplace, and the tragic Islamic attack on a Catholic church in Congo, leaving dozens dead.
Stay informed and prayerful as the Posse exposes the truth behind these critical stories. Subscribe now on iHeart, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or YouTube — and never miss an episode of The Prayerful Posse.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Why are faithful professors being purged from an American seminary?
And is there another financial scandal brewing at the Vatican?
Father Gerald Murray and I we'll discuss. The Prayerful Posse
has arrived. Welcome to the Prayerful Posse. Before I get to,
(00:24):
Father Jerry, don't forget subscribe to the Arroyo Grande Show
channel on iHeart, Apple, Spotify or on YouTube. You don't
want to miss an episode of the Posse. Now, let's
convene the Posse or part of it. Joining me now,
Father Gerald Murray, Cannon lawyer from the Archdiocese of New York. Father,
thank you for being here. Bob. We're sending a search
(00:45):
squad out after. We're going to figure out where he is.
He's traveling abroad. I'm told a big story breaking in Detroit.
Three faculty members of Saint Mary Seminary were sacked by
the new Archbishop, Edward Weisenberger. They included fanist Ed Peters,
theologians Eduardo Etchevaria and Ralph Martin, whom you know a
(01:06):
lot of viewers will know from e WT. They were
all dismissed by the archdiocese. They've yet to make a
statement detailing the reasons for their dismissals, though Ralph Martin
did say the following when I asked him. This is
the quote when I asked him for an explanation the bishop,
he said he didn't think it would be helpful to
give any specifics, but mentioned something about having concerns about
(01:31):
my theological perspectives. Father. As we know, Weisenberger, the archbishop
who is installed in March, has already made headlines by
imposing further restrictions on the celebration of the traditional at Mass.
There what do you make of these firings. These three
gentlemen are all declining to comment under advice of counsul Well.
Speaker 2 (01:53):
I can talk about it from the point of view
of appreciating these three men. I know all three of them.
I think they're excellent professors. They were doing a great
service to the church, and I regret that they will
no longer be teaching at that seminary. I hope that
they get a job somewhere else. Now, as regards the form,
it is really a couple of things bothered me a lot.
(02:16):
I thought that we were in the age of transparency,
so if you fire someone, you know their work was
about to begin end of August, beginning of September the
seminary reopens. We're at the end of July. They were
fired essentially four or five weeks before they were supposed
to continue, no reason given. And when the archbishop says
that he thinks it's better not to do that, I
(02:38):
would say, why is it better? You know, you obviously
had a reason for doing it, and to tell us
as interested viewers and observers, but then to tell the
men directly. Secondly, I know that Professor Etcheveria declined to
comments saying that he had a non disclosure agreement. I
(02:58):
thought we got rid of those after the sex abuse
r So why are we doing that? And you just
have to say to yourself, what kind of message does
this send to the seminarians who are there and to
the other faculty members if you take something as radical
as firing three professors over the summer and don't issue
a statement explaining why, everybody's going to be scratching their heads. So, yeah,
(03:24):
it was a bad decision and it was handled Corley.
Speaker 1 (03:27):
Well, and father, these are not green professors that just
walked in the door last year. These men have been
teaching this seminary for twenty thirty years. In some cases,
I mean, and they're deep thinkers. They simply compared. I've
had ROLB. Martin on the show. He simply was comparing
what was proposed during the reign of Pope Francis to
(03:48):
the church's perennial teaching. There's nothing heretical or you know,
destructive to the papacy in saying, wait a minute, let's
look at how this compares to what the last two
popes taught before this Pope and the church fathers.
Speaker 2 (04:07):
Yeah, you're right, and actually this is the I mean,
what people suspect is behind it is a hostility to
the theological outlook of these three men. And I would say,
they're professors. We want them to think, and we want
them to express themselves publicly. And I know all three men,
they are not flamethrowers casting aspersions. They are doing exactly
(04:28):
what you said, comparing what the Benedictine John Paul the
second do and teach, what did the second Battican Council teach,
and what did Pot Francis teach? Well, the suspicion here
is that we got to you know, there's only one
voice allowed, which is affirm everything that Pope Francis said,
otherwise you can't work in my seminary.
Speaker 1 (04:45):
Yeah. Well, some of the critics are saying that these
men violated the magisterium of the pope, meaning the last
one Pope Francis. Austin Ivory said something like that, your
take on that idea that relating the magisterium of the pope?
Is there a magistrum of the pope or is there
the magisterium?
Speaker 2 (05:06):
Well, it's the magisterium of the church, and the Pope
is the servant and safeguard of that magisterium. His job
is to strengthen the brethren in the faith, as Our
Lord said about Saint Peter. So if we're talking about
papal magisterium, now, what's wrong with comparing what one pope's
taught and what another did. You can take a perfect
example capital punishment, is it. Pope Francis said that it's
(05:30):
impermissible to use it, and that it's an act of vengeance,
and that it's you know, it's an it's an offence
to human dignity. Well, no pope has ever said that
in the history of the of the world. The last
two didn't say it, even though there was pressure for
them to come out against it. Pope jop All the
second didn't want it to be administered, but Pope Benedict,
before he became pope, wrote a document to the American
(05:52):
hierarchy and saying, you cannot say that the death penalty
is inherently immoral. So yeah, I would just sketch scratch
my had to critics who exalt one papal teaching against
another and say, unless you're the last man to the post,
you don't count no well, pose count.
Speaker 1 (06:11):
Well and father in the age of cinidality, where we're
supposed to be listening and conversing around small table groups
and airing our differences. So let me get this straight.
We can talk about women's ordination, we can talk about
breaking marriage bonds and going to communion, but we can't
talk about capital punishment. I mean, none of this makes
(06:33):
any sense to me. I mean, on the scale of
what you'll encounter in your life, I think capital punishment
is probably way over there, and it's certainly within bounds
of what perennially has been taught within the doctrine of
faith in the Catholic Church, and you know from time immemorial.
But I got to get to another story breaking story
from the Pillar this week. A leaked memo from twenty
(06:56):
sixteen seems to show that the late Cardinal George Pell,
who was head of the Economic Secretariat, he was kind
of the economic watchdog appointed by Pope Francis. He attempted
to order an investigation into the Vatican office that oversees
their real estate holdings and other investments. It's called ABSA,
the Administration of the Patrimony of the Apostolic Sea. Well,
(07:19):
Cardinal Pell seems to have uncovered a scheme where the
identity of the true owners or sources of funding of
some of these Vatican financial transfers could be protected and shielded.
Pell discovered a number of irregular financial transactions that were
treated this way, which would indicate major financial malfeasans. Father
(07:40):
Pell asked the then Auditor General of the Vatican, Libero Milone,
to undertake an immediate investigation into the evidence he found.
Maloney was summarily sacked dismissed in twenty seventeen, and just
days ago his wrongful dismissal lawsuit was once again dismissed
by the Vatican City's Court. This looks very bad, Father.
Speaker 2 (08:02):
It is bad, and this is one of the tasks
that Pope Leo is going to have to take up
because not only does this look bad, European regulators, of course,
are involved because the Vatican participates in the banking system,
which is regulated outside of Vatican City, and they had
a period you remember a few years ago where all
(08:23):
the credit cards and debit cards were canceled because they
had violated different rules and regulations that the money veil
as it's called, had imposed on it. They got the
thing back in order, but apparently this memo reveals that
there were even though they said they would do proper
things that they didn't that they did other things. Now
(08:44):
you have to get it under control. Also because the
credibility of the Holy See. If they assure a regulatory
agency of the European Union that everything is in order
and they're not involved in money laundering, and then significant
evidence arises that that wasn't true, you can't sit back
and say, well, you know, let's see what happens. You
bet it dow tackle this head on, and I think
(09:05):
Pope Leo's very well advised to say, look, we got
to get somebody in there with full authority to investigate everything.
No one can hide anything, and then we're going to
tell the results and we're going to do whatever we
have to do to re establish our fountability.
Speaker 1 (09:21):
And father, you remember Cardinal Angelo Beshu, who was a
substituto at the Secretary of State. He authorized classified payments,
that's what he called them, classified payments from the Vatican
to a company in Australia between twenty sixteen and twenty seventeen.
Now Beishu maintained those classified payments had nothing to do
(09:43):
with Cardinal Pell's trial. He was being tried over false
oullot they would prove to be false accusations of sex abuse.
That trial was underway at the time of those transfers.
What does that tell you about the finances of the Vatican?
And do is the public do a full accounting of
what happened there and how this structure is currently maintained.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
Well, you know, at the risk of being you know,
just a historian. Remember Watergates started with a piece of
tape over a lock in the door at the hotel.
In other words, telltale evidence led all the way to
Richard Nixon and the cover up. So the Vatican can't
just go with the assurances like pel is, excuse me,
(10:29):
Beto is a convict now he was convicted. He's not
in jail because he's appealed the sentence and he's not
being jailed until that appeal is hurt. But bet She's
already been convicted by a Vatican court. So how much
can we trust what he said? Everything that, all the
reasons why money was sent to Australia, why Cardinal pell
was on trial, that has to be revealed. This memo,
(10:51):
now that's been revealed. Did anybody mess around with codes
so that they could hide payments? You know? Reading about
this today, I found out this is the excellent reporting
at the Pillar that the Vatican had cleaned up their
act because they had a lot of accounts and nobody
really knew who the account holders were. And this is
the great temptation that people can say, well, you know
(11:13):
that the Vatican has its own bank and investment house,
maybe we could slip some money in there and then
take it out and nobody knows what it was. This
all has to be cleared up. This is making us
look like a laughing stock. Cardinals getting convicted, auditors being fired.
The orditors then can't get a just trial and hearing
the Vatican. They dismissed them on technical grounds, the grounds
(11:35):
why his ap peer would dismiss to say, well, you're
suing the Secretary of State, but they're not the responsible party.
Wait a minute, doesn't matter what you say. The Pope
can simply say accept the case. I designate them the
responsible party. Looking back, historically they were the ones calling
the shots. I'd agree with that. Get this thing over with.
(11:57):
I mean, Lebro Maloney was a very trusted management consultant
and financial guy. He took the job because Pope Francis
asked him to do it, and then he got treated
essentially like an unwelcome guest who was thrown out the door,
and the guy who threw him out then gets convicted.
Speaker 1 (12:14):
Yeah. Well, and he was mostly Cardinal Basher was ticked
off because he claimed Maloney was spying on him. Yeah,
that's what investigators do. They look into your fact pattern.
Now this look, you see why Pope Francis called off
the Price Waterhouse audit. Imagine what would have happened had
they come into the Vatican. Maybe we'd have some more transparency, though, Father,
(12:35):
Look this week on a happier note, or maybe not
hundreds of digital missionaries gathered for the first ever Jubilee
for Digital missionaries and influencers. Cardinal Petro Powerline, the Vatican
Secretary of State, addressed the audience with then appeal to
be quote connected to hope, saying you are not only
(12:56):
content creators, you were witnesses. You are not just building
platform ms, You're building bridges. Cardinal Oscar Rodriguez Maradiaga was
on hand to given over the top blessing, as was
but Francis Acolyte Father Antonio Spadaro, the ghostwriter Father. The
attendance was not great, I'm told, and the New York
(13:16):
Post covered this event this way. This was their headline,
Vatican to host hot priest influencers to spread word of
God to younger faithful. As number slumped, I got to
say your first thoughts, and I was very uncomfortable when
I saw this emphasis on these priests who seemed to
be into a lot of self care gyms and waxing.
(13:38):
And what did this achieve, if anything.
Speaker 2 (13:41):
Well, you know, influencers usually arendas for the money and
the publicity, and you know that's an aspect that needs
to be looked at. Secondly, influencers are self declared as such,
and then they get their audience. These are kind of
people that were counting on to, you know, promote the faith,
doctrinal knowledge, you know, the experience of biblical literature understood properly.
(14:06):
I mean, it would be much better if they called
in people who are actually engaged in promoting the Apostle
the church through the media in ways that are visible
and measurable and good because we have a tremendous in
the English speaking world certainly, and I monitor the Spanish
and Italian world. We have wonderful resources, websites and all
(14:27):
the rest. Talk about this podcast, talk about EWTN. There's
a lot going on. That's good. So a guy who
posts videos of him, you know, walking his cat or
buying cappuccinos, Come on, that's funny, you know. But are
we into trivia and me tooism? You know, since everybody
(14:47):
likes influences, we got to have them too in the catheters. Please,
I think we got to get more serious.
Speaker 1 (14:53):
Yeah, the dead lift is not a big draw for
people looking for spiritual answers. You know, I have to
play this. I wasn't going to, but I am. This
is Cardinal Madradiaga uh, this is kind of his little
sing along. This was posted by Austin Ivory. Watch and
(15:21):
they're really dragging out the Francis brigade here Madadiaga and
Spadaro Francis biographer Austin Ivory, he was invited. Is this
a winning strategy?
Speaker 2 (15:31):
Definitely not. I mean this is the make believe world
that if we have people smiling and cheering, then the
faith is being promoted. You know where the faith's being promoted,
People going to mass, kneeling down, people going to confession,
seeing the rosary. You want influencers. Go to the pilgrimage
that took place at Chartre. They just had a beautiful
(15:52):
one in covid Donga. In Spain, they have pilgrimages like
this even in the United States. Go to Cardinal Burkhshrun.
You want to see people of real influences to people
kneeling in front of the tabernacle praying for the church.
And how about moms with big families who take their
kids on pilgrimages and teach their little three year olds
to make the Sign of the Cross. You know, I'm
(16:14):
encouraged when I see ordinary people doing ordinary Catholic practices
instead of this nonsense of people. You know, let's have
a mob. Let's have everyone hold up their phone, turn
on the lights, you know, wave your hands and say
we love Jesus and all great, we all should love Jesus.
But is mass rallies and kind of like self congratulatory
back and forth. That's not how you promote the faith.
Speaker 1 (16:38):
No, no, you don't have to be in the in
the selfie video as you say you love Jesus. I
don't know what that really accomplishes.
Speaker 2 (16:45):
But does a mash pit really the appropriate places, you know,
say religion is good.
Speaker 1 (16:51):
Come on the mash pit and waxing your eyebrows. This
is not the answer. This is not the path to salvation.
There was one thing I have to say. The Holy
Father met with a youth jubilee the other night, and
he drove all down the via Conciliazzi on. He had
a beautiful message to them in multiple languages.
Speaker 2 (17:10):
Jesus tells us you are the assaults of the earth.
Speaker 1 (17:14):
You are the lights of the world.
Speaker 2 (17:17):
You know.
Speaker 1 (17:17):
Look, I'm all for young people getting excited. That's wonderful.
I'm glad they're there, and it's great that the Holy
Father goes out and meets them, and that, you know,
there wasn't the triviality of that other jubilee in that
you know, youth meeting the other day, which I kind
of liked it was. It was beautiful seeing it, and
we have a few images of that there, Father, Jerry,
I want to move to close matters closer to home.
(17:38):
The Trump administration announced this week that federal employees may
discuss and promote their religious beliefs in the workplace, citing
religious freedoms protected by the US Constitution. Now, the new
statement cites President Trump's executive order calling for agencies to
eliminate the quote anti Christian weaponization of government. He says
(18:00):
federal employees may seek to persuade others of the correctness
of their own religious views. That according to the Director
of the Office of Personnel Management, Scott Cooper. Now he
went on to say, supervisors can recruit employees to their religion.
In other words, they can proselytize in the government workplace,
(18:20):
as long as those efforts are not quote harassing in nature. Father,
your reaction to this, critics are already saying this violates
the alleged separation of church and state.
Speaker 2 (18:31):
Now, well, that's nonsense. In other words, the only speech
that you in the lunch room. The only thing you
can't talk about is God in the church, or if
you're Jewish, about the synagogue or the temple, or if
you're Moslim about the emom. Come on, if you want
to talk about what you believe in. I mean, every
time the President of the United States, going back years,
(18:51):
it ends all this speeches God bless America. Can we
discuss that, you know, at the Office of Managing and Budget,
you know, lunch froom. Course we can now, Yeah, what
the harassment, of course comes where you have people saying
you cannot wear across you can't have visible religious symbols,
you can't have your Bible on your desk, you can
(19:12):
engage in prayer together. This is nonsense. We have a
Congressional prayer breakfast every year in Washington. You know that.
I'm sure you get into them. What's going on? The
President of the United States is leading the senators and
everybody else in prayer. Why can't that happen at the
lower levels of the federal gament. I'm glad President Trump
did this.
Speaker 1 (19:29):
Yeah, did you see where the bishops continue to wade
into immigration policy and politics? Last week, a group of
Los Angeles business leaders joined Archbishop hose At Gomez in
LA to announce a new fund they've started now. This
fund will help families affected by recent immigration rates. According
(19:51):
to Archbishop Gomez, the program will provide direct support, direct
support to families who are suffering financial hardships because of
the current climate of uncertainty and fear. End quote father,
your reaction.
Speaker 2 (20:06):
They can do that. I mean, I'm charitable. Action is fine,
But you know what about the crime victims of people
killed by illegal aliens? Is there fun for them? You
know what about workers displaced because illegal aliens are being
hired in factories? Is there a fun for them? You know?
Taking a one sided approach which says any government action
(20:28):
to remove people who are legally in the country is inheriently, unfair, discriminatory,
and detrimental. It isn't. And I've said on this program before,
everyone who comes in here illegally knows they run the
risk of this happening, and if they're serious people, they'll
prepare for when that eventuality happens. Don't go to the
government and say, I know I broke the law on
(20:50):
coming in here illegally, but you have no right to
remove me. Of course you have a right to remove
What country is it that announces everybody who wants to
come in please do And we're never going to remove
you because guess what, that's the meaning of charity. That's
not the meaning of charity. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:06):
Well, look, I think it's the Church's prerogative, indeed her
obligation to help people in need, and it should reach
all Catholics in the pews, including setting up a parallel
fund for those angel families as you mentioned, who lost
loved ones who were killed or terrorized by legal aliens.
I mean that is a reality. Those are American citizens
(21:27):
who are here all the time, not just people who
just arrived. God bless them. But yeah, this is an
odd Yeah, it's an odd choice on their part. On
another tragic note, Vatican Secretary of State Paroleine and Pope
Leo himself both condemned the Islamic attack on a Catholic
church in Congo. At least thirty one members of the
(21:49):
Eucharistic Crusade of Prayer movement and an apostolate for children
and young people focused on devotion to the Eucharistate were
all slaughtered. The massacre shows the growing threat from the
Allied Democratic Forces the ADF in the region. The Islamic
group's goal is to establish a global caliphate. Father again,
(22:10):
another horrible attack against Christians in Africa, and it's jihati
in nature.
Speaker 2 (22:15):
Yeah, no, it's you know, I didn't really know there
were Islamic fanatics in Congo, you know, I thought that
was mostly Christians and Pagans. But obviously they're there. I
actually I know they've been just doing destruction in neighboring Mozambique.
So it's a real problem. This is part of the
chaos unfortunately in the political scene in the Congo where
the government has had rebels in Rwanda and they've been
(22:37):
fighting for decades. But you know where is the responsible
parties in the Islamic leadership in the Gulf Nations and
all elsewhere, not only talking about that this is wrong,
but helping to arm the government of Congo to fight
these people. I mean, this is something that should happen.
(22:57):
This is crime. This is not expression of a political
or religious point of view. It's using religion as an
instrument of criminal murder and it has to be stopped.
And yes, I hope our president who takes a great
interest in trying to have peace in the world and
end conflicts. I hope you'll send a message to the
leaders of the Congo that they have to protect their people.
Speaker 1 (23:20):
Yeah, particularly this Christian minority who are increasingly under attack there.
And it's not only there's Southern Sudan, it's in other places.
But he has gone the Liberia, He's gone great lengths
to help bring peace to Cambodia and other nations in Africa.
I hope he extends the glance of the administration to
(23:41):
these poor, suffering people. Father. We will leave it there
And if you want more of the Arroyo Grande Prayerful Posse,
subscribe to the Arroyo Grande Show on YouTube or go
to our podcast wherever you get yours on behalf of
Father Gerald, Murray and Robert Royal, who is abroad spreading
the posse. Cheer until the Posse rides again, Stay the course,
(24:02):
follow the light. I'm Raymond Arroyo. We'll see you next time.
Arroyo Grande is producer in partnership with iHeart Podcasts and
is available on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get
your podcasts.
Why are faithful professors being purged from an American seminary?
And is there another financial scandal brewing at the Vatican?
Father Gerald Murray and I we'll discuss. The Prayerful Posse
has arrived. Welcome to the Prayerful Posse. Before I get to,
(00:24):
Father Jerry, don't forget subscribe to the Arroyo Grande Show
channel on iHeart, Apple, Spotify or on YouTube. You don't
want to miss an episode of the Posse. Now, let's
convene the Posse or part of it. Joining me now,
Father Gerald Murray, Cannon lawyer from the Archdiocese of New York. Father,
thank you for being here. Bob. We're sending a search
(00:45):
squad out after. We're going to figure out where he is.
He's traveling abroad. I'm told a big story breaking in Detroit.
Three faculty members of Saint Mary Seminary were sacked by
the new Archbishop, Edward Weisenberger. They included fanist Ed Peters,
theologians Eduardo Etchevaria and Ralph Martin, whom you know a
(01:06):
lot of viewers will know from e WT. They were
all dismissed by the archdiocese. They've yet to make a
statement detailing the reasons for their dismissals, though Ralph Martin
did say the following when I asked him. This is
the quote when I asked him for an explanation the bishop,
he said he didn't think it would be helpful to
give any specifics, but mentioned something about having concerns about
(01:31):
my theological perspectives. Father. As we know, Weisenberger, the archbishop
who is installed in March, has already made headlines by
imposing further restrictions on the celebration of the traditional at Mass.
There what do you make of these firings. These three
gentlemen are all declining to comment under advice of counsul Well.
Speaker 2 (01:53):
I can talk about it from the point of view
of appreciating these three men. I know all three of them.
I think they're excellent professors. They were doing a great
service to the church, and I regret that they will
no longer be teaching at that seminary. I hope that
they get a job somewhere else. Now, as regards the form,
it is really a couple of things bothered me a lot.
(02:16):
I thought that we were in the age of transparency,
so if you fire someone, you know their work was
about to begin end of August, beginning of September the
seminary reopens. We're at the end of July. They were
fired essentially four or five weeks before they were supposed
to continue, no reason given. And when the archbishop says
that he thinks it's better not to do that, I
(02:38):
would say, why is it better? You know, you obviously
had a reason for doing it, and to tell us
as interested viewers and observers, but then to tell the
men directly. Secondly, I know that Professor Etcheveria declined to
comments saying that he had a non disclosure agreement. I
(02:58):
thought we got rid of those after the sex abuse
r So why are we doing that? And you just
have to say to yourself, what kind of message does
this send to the seminarians who are there and to
the other faculty members if you take something as radical
as firing three professors over the summer and don't issue
a statement explaining why, everybody's going to be scratching their heads. So, yeah,
(03:24):
it was a bad decision and it was handled Corley.
Speaker 1 (03:27):
Well, and father, these are not green professors that just
walked in the door last year. These men have been
teaching this seminary for twenty thirty years. In some cases,
I mean, and they're deep thinkers. They simply compared. I've
had ROLB. Martin on the show. He simply was comparing
what was proposed during the reign of Pope Francis to
(03:48):
the church's perennial teaching. There's nothing heretical or you know,
destructive to the papacy in saying, wait a minute, let's
look at how this compares to what the last two
popes taught before this Pope and the church fathers.
Speaker 2 (04:07):
Yeah, you're right, and actually this is the I mean,
what people suspect is behind it is a hostility to
the theological outlook of these three men. And I would say,
they're professors. We want them to think, and we want
them to express themselves publicly. And I know all three men,
they are not flamethrowers casting aspersions. They are doing exactly
(04:28):
what you said, comparing what the Benedictine John Paul the
second do and teach, what did the second Battican Council teach,
and what did Pot Francis teach? Well, the suspicion here
is that we got to you know, there's only one
voice allowed, which is affirm everything that Pope Francis said,
otherwise you can't work in my seminary.
Speaker 1 (04:45):
Yeah. Well, some of the critics are saying that these
men violated the magisterium of the pope, meaning the last
one Pope Francis. Austin Ivory said something like that, your
take on that idea that relating the magisterium of the pope?
Is there a magistrum of the pope or is there
the magisterium?
Speaker 2 (05:06):
Well, it's the magisterium of the church, and the Pope
is the servant and safeguard of that magisterium. His job
is to strengthen the brethren in the faith, as Our
Lord said about Saint Peter. So if we're talking about
papal magisterium, now, what's wrong with comparing what one pope's
taught and what another did. You can take a perfect
example capital punishment, is it. Pope Francis said that it's
(05:30):
impermissible to use it, and that it's an act of vengeance,
and that it's you know, it's an it's an offence
to human dignity. Well, no pope has ever said that
in the history of the of the world. The last
two didn't say it, even though there was pressure for
them to come out against it. Pope jop All the
second didn't want it to be administered, but Pope Benedict,
before he became pope, wrote a document to the American
(05:52):
hierarchy and saying, you cannot say that the death penalty
is inherently immoral. So yeah, I would just sketch scratch
my had to critics who exalt one papal teaching against
another and say, unless you're the last man to the post,
you don't count no well, pose count.
Speaker 1 (06:11):
Well and father in the age of cinidality, where we're
supposed to be listening and conversing around small table groups
and airing our differences. So let me get this straight.
We can talk about women's ordination, we can talk about
breaking marriage bonds and going to communion, but we can't
talk about capital punishment. I mean, none of this makes
(06:33):
any sense to me. I mean, on the scale of
what you'll encounter in your life, I think capital punishment
is probably way over there, and it's certainly within bounds
of what perennially has been taught within the doctrine of
faith in the Catholic Church, and you know from time immemorial.
But I got to get to another story breaking story
from the Pillar this week. A leaked memo from twenty
(06:56):
sixteen seems to show that the late Cardinal George Pell,
who was head of the Economic Secretariat, he was kind
of the economic watchdog appointed by Pope Francis. He attempted
to order an investigation into the Vatican office that oversees
their real estate holdings and other investments. It's called ABSA,
the Administration of the Patrimony of the Apostolic Sea. Well,
(07:19):
Cardinal Pell seems to have uncovered a scheme where the
identity of the true owners or sources of funding of
some of these Vatican financial transfers could be protected and shielded.
Pell discovered a number of irregular financial transactions that were
treated this way, which would indicate major financial malfeasans. Father
(07:40):
Pell asked the then Auditor General of the Vatican, Libero Milone,
to undertake an immediate investigation into the evidence he found.
Maloney was summarily sacked dismissed in twenty seventeen, and just
days ago his wrongful dismissal lawsuit was once again dismissed
by the Vatican City's Court. This looks very bad, Father.
Speaker 2 (08:02):
It is bad, and this is one of the tasks
that Pope Leo is going to have to take up
because not only does this look bad, European regulators, of course,
are involved because the Vatican participates in the banking system,
which is regulated outside of Vatican City, and they had
a period you remember a few years ago where all
(08:23):
the credit cards and debit cards were canceled because they
had violated different rules and regulations that the money veil
as it's called, had imposed on it. They got the
thing back in order, but apparently this memo reveals that
there were even though they said they would do proper
things that they didn't that they did other things. Now
(08:44):
you have to get it under control. Also because the
credibility of the Holy See. If they assure a regulatory
agency of the European Union that everything is in order
and they're not involved in money laundering, and then significant
evidence arises that that wasn't true, you can't sit back
and say, well, you know, let's see what happens. You
bet it dow tackle this head on, and I think
(09:05):
Pope Leo's very well advised to say, look, we got
to get somebody in there with full authority to investigate everything.
No one can hide anything, and then we're going to
tell the results and we're going to do whatever we
have to do to re establish our fountability.
Speaker 1 (09:21):
And father, you remember Cardinal Angelo Beshu, who was a
substituto at the Secretary of State. He authorized classified payments,
that's what he called them, classified payments from the Vatican
to a company in Australia between twenty sixteen and twenty seventeen.
Now Beishu maintained those classified payments had nothing to do
(09:43):
with Cardinal Pell's trial. He was being tried over false
oullot they would prove to be false accusations of sex abuse.
That trial was underway at the time of those transfers.
What does that tell you about the finances of the Vatican?
And do is the public do a full accounting of
what happened there and how this structure is currently maintained.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
Well, you know, at the risk of being you know,
just a historian. Remember Watergates started with a piece of
tape over a lock in the door at the hotel.
In other words, telltale evidence led all the way to
Richard Nixon and the cover up. So the Vatican can't
just go with the assurances like pel is, excuse me,
(10:29):
Beto is a convict now he was convicted. He's not
in jail because he's appealed the sentence and he's not
being jailed until that appeal is hurt. But bet She's
already been convicted by a Vatican court. So how much
can we trust what he said? Everything that, all the
reasons why money was sent to Australia, why Cardinal pell
was on trial, that has to be revealed. This memo,
(10:51):
now that's been revealed. Did anybody mess around with codes
so that they could hide payments? You know? Reading about
this today, I found out this is the excellent reporting
at the Pillar that the Vatican had cleaned up their
act because they had a lot of accounts and nobody
really knew who the account holders were. And this is
the great temptation that people can say, well, you know
(11:13):
that the Vatican has its own bank and investment house,
maybe we could slip some money in there and then
take it out and nobody knows what it was. This
all has to be cleared up. This is making us
look like a laughing stock. Cardinals getting convicted, auditors being fired.
The orditors then can't get a just trial and hearing
the Vatican. They dismissed them on technical grounds, the grounds
(11:35):
why his ap peer would dismiss to say, well, you're
suing the Secretary of State, but they're not the responsible party.
Wait a minute, doesn't matter what you say. The Pope
can simply say accept the case. I designate them the
responsible party. Looking back, historically they were the ones calling
the shots. I'd agree with that. Get this thing over with.
(11:57):
I mean, Lebro Maloney was a very trusted management consultant
and financial guy. He took the job because Pope Francis
asked him to do it, and then he got treated
essentially like an unwelcome guest who was thrown out the door,
and the guy who threw him out then gets convicted.
Speaker 1 (12:14):
Yeah. Well, and he was mostly Cardinal Basher was ticked
off because he claimed Maloney was spying on him. Yeah,
that's what investigators do. They look into your fact pattern.
Now this look, you see why Pope Francis called off
the Price Waterhouse audit. Imagine what would have happened had
they come into the Vatican. Maybe we'd have some more transparency, though, Father,
(12:35):
Look this week on a happier note, or maybe not
hundreds of digital missionaries gathered for the first ever Jubilee
for Digital missionaries and influencers. Cardinal Petro Powerline, the Vatican
Secretary of State, addressed the audience with then appeal to
be quote connected to hope, saying you are not only
(12:56):
content creators, you were witnesses. You are not just building
platform ms, You're building bridges. Cardinal Oscar Rodriguez Maradiaga was
on hand to given over the top blessing, as was
but Francis Acolyte Father Antonio Spadaro, the ghostwriter Father. The
attendance was not great, I'm told, and the New York
(13:16):
Post covered this event this way. This was their headline,
Vatican to host hot priest influencers to spread word of
God to younger faithful. As number slumped, I got to
say your first thoughts, and I was very uncomfortable when
I saw this emphasis on these priests who seemed to
be into a lot of self care gyms and waxing.
(13:38):
And what did this achieve, if anything.
Speaker 2 (13:41):
Well, you know, influencers usually arendas for the money and
the publicity, and you know that's an aspect that needs
to be looked at. Secondly, influencers are self declared as such,
and then they get their audience. These are kind of
people that were counting on to, you know, promote the faith,
doctrinal knowledge, you know, the experience of biblical literature understood properly.
(14:06):
I mean, it would be much better if they called
in people who are actually engaged in promoting the Apostle
the church through the media in ways that are visible
and measurable and good because we have a tremendous in
the English speaking world certainly, and I monitor the Spanish
and Italian world. We have wonderful resources, websites and all
(14:27):
the rest. Talk about this podcast, talk about EWTN. There's
a lot going on. That's good. So a guy who
posts videos of him, you know, walking his cat or
buying cappuccinos, Come on, that's funny, you know. But are
we into trivia and me tooism? You know, since everybody
(14:47):
likes influences, we got to have them too in the catheters. Please,
I think we got to get more serious.
Speaker 1 (14:53):
Yeah, the dead lift is not a big draw for
people looking for spiritual answers. You know, I have to
play this. I wasn't going to, but I am. This
is Cardinal Madradiaga uh, this is kind of his little
sing along. This was posted by Austin Ivory. Watch and
(15:21):
they're really dragging out the Francis brigade here Madadiaga and
Spadaro Francis biographer Austin Ivory, he was invited. Is this
a winning strategy?
Speaker 2 (15:31):
Definitely not. I mean this is the make believe world
that if we have people smiling and cheering, then the
faith is being promoted. You know where the faith's being promoted,
People going to mass, kneeling down, people going to confession,
seeing the rosary. You want influencers. Go to the pilgrimage
that took place at Chartre. They just had a beautiful
(15:52):
one in covid Donga. In Spain, they have pilgrimages like
this even in the United States. Go to Cardinal Burkhshrun.
You want to see people of real influences to people
kneeling in front of the tabernacle praying for the church.
And how about moms with big families who take their
kids on pilgrimages and teach their little three year olds
to make the Sign of the Cross. You know, I'm
(16:14):
encouraged when I see ordinary people doing ordinary Catholic practices
instead of this nonsense of people. You know, let's have
a mob. Let's have everyone hold up their phone, turn
on the lights, you know, wave your hands and say
we love Jesus and all great, we all should love Jesus.
But is mass rallies and kind of like self congratulatory
back and forth. That's not how you promote the faith.
Speaker 1 (16:38):
No, no, you don't have to be in the in
the selfie video as you say you love Jesus. I
don't know what that really accomplishes.
Speaker 2 (16:45):
But does a mash pit really the appropriate places, you know,
say religion is good.
Speaker 1 (16:51):
Come on the mash pit and waxing your eyebrows. This
is not the answer. This is not the path to salvation.
There was one thing I have to say. The Holy
Father met with a youth jubilee the other night, and
he drove all down the via Conciliazzi on. He had
a beautiful message to them in multiple languages.
Speaker 2 (17:10):
Jesus tells us you are the assaults of the earth.
Speaker 1 (17:14):
You are the lights of the world.
Speaker 2 (17:17):
You know.
Speaker 1 (17:17):
Look, I'm all for young people getting excited. That's wonderful.
I'm glad they're there, and it's great that the Holy
Father goes out and meets them, and that, you know,
there wasn't the triviality of that other jubilee in that
you know, youth meeting the other day, which I kind
of liked it was. It was beautiful seeing it, and
we have a few images of that there, Father, Jerry,
I want to move to close matters closer to home.
(17:38):
The Trump administration announced this week that federal employees may
discuss and promote their religious beliefs in the workplace, citing
religious freedoms protected by the US Constitution. Now, the new
statement cites President Trump's executive order calling for agencies to
eliminate the quote anti Christian weaponization of government. He says
(18:00):
federal employees may seek to persuade others of the correctness
of their own religious views. That according to the Director
of the Office of Personnel Management, Scott Cooper. Now he
went on to say, supervisors can recruit employees to their religion.
In other words, they can proselytize in the government workplace,
(18:20):
as long as those efforts are not quote harassing in nature. Father,
your reaction to this, critics are already saying this violates
the alleged separation of church and state.
Speaker 2 (18:31):
Now, well, that's nonsense. In other words, the only speech
that you in the lunch room. The only thing you
can't talk about is God in the church, or if
you're Jewish, about the synagogue or the temple, or if
you're Moslim about the emom. Come on, if you want
to talk about what you believe in. I mean, every
time the President of the United States, going back years,
(18:51):
it ends all this speeches God bless America. Can we
discuss that, you know, at the Office of Managing and Budget,
you know, lunch froom. Course we can now, Yeah, what
the harassment, of course comes where you have people saying
you cannot wear across you can't have visible religious symbols,
you can't have your Bible on your desk, you can
(19:12):
engage in prayer together. This is nonsense. We have a
Congressional prayer breakfast every year in Washington. You know that.
I'm sure you get into them. What's going on? The
President of the United States is leading the senators and
everybody else in prayer. Why can't that happen at the
lower levels of the federal gament. I'm glad President Trump
did this.
Speaker 1 (19:29):
Yeah, did you see where the bishops continue to wade
into immigration policy and politics? Last week, a group of
Los Angeles business leaders joined Archbishop hose At Gomez in
LA to announce a new fund they've started now. This
fund will help families affected by recent immigration rates. According
(19:51):
to Archbishop Gomez, the program will provide direct support, direct
support to families who are suffering financial hardships because of
the current climate of uncertainty and fear. End quote father,
your reaction.
Speaker 2 (20:06):
They can do that. I mean, I'm charitable. Action is fine,
But you know what about the crime victims of people
killed by illegal aliens? Is there fun for them? You
know what about workers displaced because illegal aliens are being
hired in factories? Is there a fun for them? You know?
Taking a one sided approach which says any government action
(20:28):
to remove people who are legally in the country is inheriently, unfair, discriminatory,
and detrimental. It isn't. And I've said on this program before,
everyone who comes in here illegally knows they run the
risk of this happening, and if they're serious people, they'll
prepare for when that eventuality happens. Don't go to the
government and say, I know I broke the law on
(20:50):
coming in here illegally, but you have no right to
remove me. Of course you have a right to remove
What country is it that announces everybody who wants to
come in please do And we're never going to remove
you because guess what, that's the meaning of charity. That's
not the meaning of charity. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:06):
Well, look, I think it's the Church's prerogative, indeed her
obligation to help people in need, and it should reach
all Catholics in the pews, including setting up a parallel
fund for those angel families as you mentioned, who lost
loved ones who were killed or terrorized by legal aliens.
I mean that is a reality. Those are American citizens
(21:27):
who are here all the time, not just people who
just arrived. God bless them. But yeah, this is an
odd Yeah, it's an odd choice on their part. On
another tragic note, Vatican Secretary of State Paroleine and Pope
Leo himself both condemned the Islamic attack on a Catholic
church in Congo. At least thirty one members of the
(21:49):
Eucharistic Crusade of Prayer movement and an apostolate for children
and young people focused on devotion to the Eucharistate were
all slaughtered. The massacre shows the growing threat from the
Allied Democratic Forces the ADF in the region. The Islamic
group's goal is to establish a global caliphate. Father again,
(22:10):
another horrible attack against Christians in Africa, and it's jihati
in nature.
Speaker 2 (22:15):
Yeah, no, it's you know, I didn't really know there
were Islamic fanatics in Congo, you know, I thought that
was mostly Christians and Pagans. But obviously they're there. I
actually I know they've been just doing destruction in neighboring Mozambique.
So it's a real problem. This is part of the
chaos unfortunately in the political scene in the Congo where
the government has had rebels in Rwanda and they've been
(22:37):
fighting for decades. But you know where is the responsible
parties in the Islamic leadership in the Gulf Nations and
all elsewhere, not only talking about that this is wrong,
but helping to arm the government of Congo to fight
these people. I mean, this is something that should happen.
(22:57):
This is crime. This is not expression of a political
or religious point of view. It's using religion as an
instrument of criminal murder and it has to be stopped.
And yes, I hope our president who takes a great
interest in trying to have peace in the world and
end conflicts. I hope you'll send a message to the
leaders of the Congo that they have to protect their people.
Speaker 1 (23:20):
Yeah, particularly this Christian minority who are increasingly under attack there.
And it's not only there's Southern Sudan, it's in other places.
But he has gone the Liberia, He's gone great lengths
to help bring peace to Cambodia and other nations in Africa.
I hope he extends the glance of the administration to
(23:41):
these poor, suffering people. Father. We will leave it there
And if you want more of the Arroyo Grande Prayerful Posse,
subscribe to the Arroyo Grande Show on YouTube or go
to our podcast wherever you get yours on behalf of
Father Gerald, Murray and Robert Royal, who is abroad spreading
the posse. Cheer until the Posse rides again, Stay the course,
(24:02):
follow the light. I'm Raymond Arroyo. We'll see you next time.
Arroyo Grande is producer in partnership with iHeart Podcasts and
is available on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get
your podcasts.
Host
Raymond Arroyo
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