June 5, 2025 • 28 mins
In this episode of The Prayerful Posse, Raymond Arroyo and Father Gerald Murray unpack the firestorm surrounding Bishop Michael Martin’s attempts to restrict the Traditional Latin Mass in Charlotte—and the surprising decision to delay implementation after national backlash. What does it mean for faithful Catholics across the country? What will Pope Leo XIV do?
They also tackle breaking news: a call between Pope Leo and Vladimir Putin, potential peace talks, and the new pontiff’s powerful statement reaffirming the sacred bond of marriage amid rising cohabitation.
Plus, Father Murray responds to an outrageous Apple TV+ scene mocking the Eucharist—and calls for Catholics to make their voices heard. From gender ideology in the Church to the state of modern dating apps and a historic message from Pope Leo at Wrigley Field, this packed episode challenges, enlightens, and unites the Posse in truth.
🔔 Subscribe for more inspiring conversations: Arroyo Grande, available on YouTube, Apple Podcasts, iHeart, and everywhere you listen, watch & stream.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
After our last show and wide media coverage, the Bishop
of Charlotte North Carolina is slowing limitations to the traditional
at Mass, but other dioceses are pressing forward. We'll tell
you which ones and what will Pope Leo the fourteenth
do on this edition of The Prayerful Posse. Thanks welcome
(00:24):
to this Arroyo Grande series, The Prayerful Posse, where we
dive into matters of faith and its impact on culture.
I want to convene the Posse joining me now, Father
Gerald Murray, canon lawyer from the Archdiocese of New York,
and I'm Raymond Arroyo.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
Bob is out traversing the planes, Father, but it will
be back next week.
Speaker 1 (00:43):
Go subscribe to the Arroyo Grande podcast on iHeart, Apple,
Spotify or on YouTube at Arroyo Grande Show so you
don't miss an episode of the Posse.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
Father, I want to get to the biggest story of
the week.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
We spent last week's episode exposing those newly an ounst
policies of Bishop Michael Martin to stamp out the traditional
Latin Mass in all but one chapel in his Charlotte
North Carolina diocese. He claimed he was doing it to
promote the concord and unity of the church. Well well, well,
(01:16):
after a ferocious backlash both inside and outside the Charlotte Diocese,
bishop Martin is slowing his role. He's still planning on
killing the Mass in four parishes and allowing it in
that new chapel, but instead of July eighth, the changes
will occur now on October second. Bishop Martin says this
(01:37):
will allow the faithful and clergy to quote absorb the changes.
Your reaction, father, I mean, he's still killing the mass.
Speaker 3 (01:45):
If he doesn't change in October. So I mean, he
was pretty sad on changing it now in July, and
we are now in June. So this was basically a
matter of a few weeks away, four weeks or so. No,
I think this is very wise decision on his part. Sure,
he never expected the level of upsetness that this would create,
and then beyond the borders, so to speak. So yeah,
(02:08):
I'm very pleased he made this decision because, as he
said in his communication, if Pope Leo makes another decision,
any other decision regarding the Mass, then they'll abide by that.
So that's that's a very wise decision. In fact, that
would have been the wisdom, don't do anything until Pope
Leo makes some provision, because we all know this is
one of the top agenda items that's sitting on his desk,
(02:31):
what to do about Latin mess Yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:34):
Well, we talked about this last week when Pope Francis
died and this was still a source of such controversy.
Why do anything until you get new guidance from the
new man in charge. But visa via the Pope, Pope
Leo met with Cardinal Roche, who's the head of the
Vatican's Liturgy Office, very early in the week. Did that
(02:55):
have any effect, do you think or might it have?
Speaker 3 (03:00):
You know, it's possible that the Pope has been briefed
on the situation in Charlotte and may have asked Cardinal
Rose to, you know, put a little bit of space
in between you know, the document from Bishop Martin and
what's going to happen eventually. And if that's the case,
that's all to the good. We don't know that, so
that's speculation, but it's a nice thing that the Bishop
(03:23):
Martin has decided that it's in the interest of everyone
that nothing happened at the moment.
Speaker 1 (03:27):
Yeah, well, Bishop Martin and a lot of these bishops
mean to conform to Pope Francis's legislation Tradisionis Custodis, which
demanded the stamping out of the ancient Latin. Right before
we go further, Father, after last week's show, I had
a lot of people asking us, who cares what language
the Mass is in? If it's Latin or Spanish or English,
(03:49):
the Mass is the Mass, But actually this traditional Latin
Mass is the ancient Roman, right, it's a different version
of the Mass. Explain how it's more than language at
issue here.
Speaker 3 (04:01):
Yeah, Latin is kind of like the tag you put
on it, because all the Masses were in Latin, no
matter what country you lived in. And then after Vatican
Two the vernacular was introduced, so now we have the
new Mass in English and French and Spanish, et cetera.
The ritual is different in the sense that the forms
of the prayers were changed. Some prayers were excised from
(04:23):
the new Mass. A series of new eucharistic prayers, for instance,
were added to the new Missile which weren't in the old.
Prayers at the foot of the altar were done away with,
except for the confedio or, which was modified that's the
confession of sin beginning of Mass to ask pardon. The
offeratory prayers were changed, other rituals were changed. We used
(04:44):
to say Lord, I am not worthy three times, now
we say it once. The kiria used to be nine
kirie kyrie kirrie christe eleis on, etc. So there were
changes which you know, were basically it was like a
slim down version of the old Mass with some new additions.
And it didn't really meet the expectations I think of
(05:07):
a lot of people, and you know, the dissatisfaction that
exists has not gone away over time. And I jopp
All the second and Benedict recognized it and then they
made accommodations.
Speaker 2 (05:18):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (05:18):
Well, and now, as you mentioned earlier, Bishop Martin has
said in Charlotte, he will change his policy depending on
whether the Vatican comes forward and offers an amendment to
put Francis's letter Apostolic letter on this issue. Do you
expect Pope Leo to amend that Apostolic letter? Cardinal Guhl
(05:41):
of Singapore was quoted in a recent interview with saying
that why are you barring people from going to the
traditional Latin Mass?
Speaker 3 (05:49):
You know, I do expect they'll be this issue will
be addressed because it's one of the hot button issues
that you know dog the last years of the pontificate
of Pope Francis. You know, people could not understand, as
we've discussed on this, uh these airwaves, how is it
that a group of people going to church on Sunday
the next week are said, you can't come in here anymore?
Before I ask you want is no longer celebrate? No,
(06:12):
we have empty churches? Why would you empty them out?
Even further so, I mean it doesn't make from a
pastoral point of view, why would you, you know, put
a stop sign in front of people who want to
come and worship. Now, the issues about liturgical order and
unity in the church, that's something that Benedict and Pope
John Paul the Second addressed and have thought about. And
(06:33):
then the experience with their accommodations to the old mask
crowd was very well received. You know, I think you
said once on this on this program. You know, one
week you go to the old Mass, the next week
you go to the New Mass, and there's no problem.
You just say this week I do this, next week
I do that. I think that's the kind of approach
we need.
Speaker 1 (06:54):
Yeah, well, it's you know, as we mentioned last week,
I almost think of it as music. You don't pro
opera or never go to an opera because you listen
to jazz. Now, the fact is there are times when
you want opera and there's something beautiful there. But in
the sense of the Mass, it's much more than music.
This is worship of God and the ancient worship of God.
And I think young people are coming for just that. Father,
(07:16):
You see them in your parish and in your diocese.
But look less people think that Charlotte, North Carolina is
the only place where the Latin Mass is being stamped out.
Speaker 2 (07:26):
If you believe that, you're wrong.
Speaker 1 (07:28):
There are other places, like the Archdiocese of Detroit, where
the new Archbishop Edward Weisenberger has announced on July first,
the extraordinary form of the Mass will not be allowed
in any parish churches. Father, he says, the Vatican has
sole authority to grant parish's permission to celebrate this traditional Mass,
(07:50):
but it is allowed in other dioceses. What do you
make of this demand by Pope Francis that Rome be
the sole arbiter, the only party able to grant permission
to celebrate this mass.
Speaker 3 (08:02):
Well, yeah, this was one of the provisions of traditional
custodias that was most irksome because it's said the old
the traditional Latin Mass can be celebrated in places, but
not in parish churches. And you say to yourself, what
sense does that make. If it can still be celebrated,
why would you restrict it from the place where people
(08:24):
actually go to Mass on a regular basis. The idea
essentially was it was sort of like, you know, Death
by a thousand cuts. You know, well, well, first we'll
get it out of parishes, then we'll put it in chapels,
and then we'll restrict how many you can have, and
then people lose interest, which is you know, for me,
that was a pastially irresponsible approach. And the fact of
(08:47):
the matter is when the Vatican issued that the document
saying that only it couldn't happen in parish churches, bishops
could then write to Vatican say I'd like an exemption
for that. It's called a dispensation in law, and if
it has been granted, Because of course, local bishops turned
to Romans in the Wait a minute, is this the
kind of centralization that's going to promote harmony in the church,
(09:10):
where people in Rome make decisions about where people can
go to Mass, the local bishops knows more. In fact,
that's one of the things you know, we're talking about
Vatican two. Yeah, the great aspects of Vatican Two was
returning responsibility to diocesan bishops for the ordinary pastoral care
of they're faithful. So this was undue centralization, but it
(09:30):
was in pursuit of a goal, because you're right, Pope
Francis wanted to stamp out the old Mass. He didn't
want to do it immediately. And you know, now that
he's gone to the Lord, it's up to the next
pope to say that was a laudable goal, We're going
to continue to stamp it out, or he's going to say, no,
that was a mistaken approach. We're going to go back
to what Benedict had arranged a nice accommodation.
Speaker 1 (09:51):
Well, in the Diocese of Jefferson City, the former bishop
there got just what you mentioned, a dispensation to allow
the Latin Mass at want one one parish church. At
the end of June, Father, that extension will end and
there will be no Latin Mass in Jefferson City. Now,
why is this such a controversy.
Speaker 2 (10:12):
I mean, it's an.
Speaker 1 (10:12):
Ancient mass, it's the foundation of the new Mass. Why
wouldn't you want people to see it or at least
make the connection that this came from that.
Speaker 2 (10:22):
Why would you want to deny that to people?
Speaker 3 (10:24):
Well, you know, there are a lot of speculation on this.
We know that Post Francis asserted multiple times that people
who like to go to the Old Mass basically have
an emotional problem, that they're attached to externalities and ancient
things and they're looking for security blankets. Essentially, for me,
that was a caricature and basically a false narrative. It's
(10:46):
not the reality, and I've seen that on the ground.
There was another the liturgical school promoting this, which is
associated with Sanencelmo and Rome. They're basically saying no turgical
movement meant we walked away from that past expression, we're
not going back. So they put it in terms of
like a Hegelian progress thing. Things only get better over
(11:10):
time and we have to kind of go along with
where things are going. And the answer to that is no.
Wait a minute. One of the goals that the Segrament
accounts was resourcement, meaning going back to the ancient fonts
of Christian teaching and gaining a new appreciation well liturgically.
So many things that were introduced into the New Mass
were innovations. They weren't getting back to ancient custom. The
(11:33):
three eucharistic prayers, these were his or innovations. Now one
of them is based on an ancient form, but it's
certainly not the ancient form. It was modified and reduced.
So with all these details, I can basically say Poet
Francis's lack of sympathy for people who go to the
Latin Mass I think overshadowed his pastoral judgment, which is
to say, why in the world would I tell people
(11:55):
I don't want you going to your parish church on
Sunday because you don't like to go to the New Mass.
You like you the old Mess. I'm glad they want
to go to Mass.
Speaker 2 (12:03):
Right, who cares?
Speaker 1 (12:05):
I mean, assuming that these are illicit and valid versions
of the Mass, which no one has ever contended that
they weren't, this is a problem. Doesn't Pope Leo Father
have to address this? I mean, there's a fundamental disagreement
here between the two previous popes, Benedict and Francis Benedict
said this was what was true and holy in the past,
(12:28):
remains true and holy today. Francis comes along and he says, no,
the traditional right is a form of rebellion against the
Second Vatican Counsul.
Speaker 2 (12:37):
It needs to be stamped out.
Speaker 1 (12:38):
Didn't this set up a competition between the two rights
rather than a harmony?
Speaker 3 (12:43):
It did? It did, and it basically imputed motives to
people who like the Old Mass that they are that
they don't accept Vatican two. No, I don't think that's
the case. There may be a few. But then the
questions were, what don't they accept That's a long debate.
We're not going to get into that. The vast majority
of people just want to go to a reverent Mass, right, So,
and that's and then yeah, the idea, by the way,
(13:07):
if you accept the premise people with emotional problems go
to the Old Mass, which I don't accept. No, Well,
what response to a person with an emotional difficulty is
to say, we're punishing you. No more candy, no more,
no more ice cream.
Speaker 2 (13:21):
Go to the firehouse on Sunday.
Speaker 3 (13:22):
Yeah, you have to go somewhere. I mean, we basically
say to people, let's get to the root of the
issue here, Why is it that you like the Old Mass?
You know, one of the nice things about Pope Leo,
and everybody was saying it and the lead up to
his installation was he's a good listener. He's a good listener.
So I think, you know he's he lives in the
(13:43):
Anglo sphere, meaning he's aware of what's being discussed in
English language media. And if there's one topic that crosses
the Atlantic pretty quickly, it's what do you do with
the Pope Francis suppression of the Old Mass?
Speaker 1 (13:55):
Yeah, no, this is definitely a hot topic, and I
know he's aware of it. I want to hit some
other areas where Pope Leo made news this week. It
was widely reported that Leo had corrected that's the way
it was depicted. Corrected Pope Francis this week who intimated
in a couple of gatherings that couples living together in fidelity,
(14:17):
just living together, that that was like a marriage. And
Pope Leo said this week at the Family Jubilee quote,
perhaps many young people today who choose cohabitation instead of
Christian marriage in reality needs someone to show them in
a concrete and clear way, especially by the example of
their lives, what the gift of sacramental grace is and
(14:40):
what strength derives from it. Someone to help them understand
the beauty and grandeur of the vocation to love and
the service of life that God gives to married couples.
And that's a quote from John Paul. The second from
familiaris consortio, and then he goes on marriage is not
an ideal, but the canon of true love between a
(15:00):
man and a woman, total faithful love. Your thoughts father
at this jime.
Speaker 3 (15:06):
No beautiful thoughts, a beautiful teaching from Pope Leo. It's
precisely the kind of thing that we need. We we
live in a world where cohabitation for marriage for Catholics
is now basically the universal practice in the United States.
That doesn't mean every single couple, but I've been a priest.
When I was a priest or or dain forty years ago,
it was the rarity for a couple to live together. Yeah,
(15:27):
now I basically expected. And most people when you ask them,
what's the where do you live with your dress? You
know the same as that, And most people don't realize
that it's wrong, because you know, they understand that the
Church doesn't accept it. But there's the social stigma attached
to living before marriage is gone in the United States,
and sad to say, in the Catholic Church we followed suit.
(15:49):
So Leo's making a great reminder and that's very encouraging,
you know. And marriage is not an ideal. In other words,
observing the law of God is not an ideal because
we say, you know, in an ideal world, you know, uh,
my favorite baseball player with bat five hundred. You know, well,
of course, in an ideal world. Yeah, but guess what,
(16:11):
no one expects him to hit five hundred. But I
don't say in an ideal world, married couples remain faithful
for life. No, we say, marriage by nature is for life, right,
and therefore you conform to nature if you want to
cooperate with God's plan and.
Speaker 1 (16:24):
It's a lived reality. It's to be lived, not to
be imagined. And I think that's what he's saying there.
And we during the last Pontifica, we heard a lot
about dreaming and imagining and dreaming, and I think Pope Leo.
Speaker 2 (16:35):
Is very practical here. What do you make of all
these dating apps? Father?
Speaker 1 (16:40):
I mean, you look, I imagine you deal with marriage
prep every week with young people in your parish. Has
the technology made things harder for them to find that
mate that they can spend the rest of their lives
with and be married to.
Speaker 3 (16:54):
Well, you know, I'm up two minds on dating apps.
You know, here's someone who's a peer for the last
twelve years on YouTube on a regular basis. So I'm
not going to criticize the internet. Because the internet allowed
more people to hear sermons and listen to your discussions
of news and the church. This has goal to the good.
So dating apps are you know, kind of like you know,
(17:17):
if father knew how she talked about the naked public square.
This isn't a naked public square unless you go to
the wrong dating apps. You know, this isn't dating apps
that are decent and responsible and had protections. Those are
good and I do not criticize them. So the sad
part is that we live in a world because of
various factors, where people don't ing commingle in common spaces
(17:42):
the way they used to. I mean, one of the
nice things about New Orleans is that the architecture teaches
you how people lived. In other words, the narrow streets,
the houses all together. The cathedral has a plaza because
you got a space in front of the church where
people can mean, that's how people used to live. Now
you live in an apartment building, your car is parked
(18:03):
in an underground space. You get in your car, you
drive to work, you don't see anybody. Yeah, so there
alternate ways. So I would say some of those dating
apps horrible. I'd stay away from them. They're basically promoting
fornication and adultery. But decent, good ones and they're out
there allow people to get to know each other, so
(18:24):
that's good.
Speaker 1 (18:25):
Yeah, I want to move on to a Netherlands. Cardinal
William Aiku is a medical doctor. We talked about him
during the conclave. Those who watch regularly will remember he's
calling for the Church father to come together and give
more attention to church teaching on gender affirming therapies and
transgender treatments. He says, the connection between biological and creation
(18:50):
and biological sex and gender are really important and are
lost here.
Speaker 2 (18:55):
Why is that not well articulated?
Speaker 3 (18:57):
Do you think it's not articulated because there's a section
of the church, including some bishops, who accept this erroneous
notion that a man can claim to be a woman,
and a woman can claim to be a man, and
they don't view gender confusion as a problem. But that
is kind of like, you know, well now I discovered
(19:18):
who I really am. The church doesn't teach this, it
cannot teach it. Unfortunately, Pope Francis and his pastoral openness,
he used to sadly an occasion he would refer to
transvestite says she or he when they weren't. He would
have a group come to his audiences that a nun
he knows used to deal with and just say this
is don't do this. It was a famous story when
(19:41):
a Spanish woman who claimed to be a man said,
you know, I've got married to a woman. I'd like
the two of us to come and visit you in Rome,
and Pope said, come on over, and then he called
her a woman even though she was a man. And
by the way, you can't be married if you're two women.
So and the Pope called the other woman the spouse.
I mean, just that was Pope Francis. It was a
sloppy it was unthought out, in my opinion, because elsewhere
(20:04):
he criticized gender ideologies. Yes, anyway, no Cardinal Ike is
what I like about him. Is he stating something which
is a simple truth that nobody would have questioned during
the pontificates of John Paul the second in Benedict sad
to say confusion during the pontificty of Post Francis led
some people you know and we you know, we have incidents.
(20:27):
We won't get into details, but Bishop's publicly tolerating this
kind of masquerade where people dress up like the opposite sex,
claim to be, you know, a man or a woman,
and they're not rebuked or given pastoral guidance to stop it.
So good for the cardinal.
Speaker 1 (20:43):
Like okay, an outrageous story, I have to get to
an episode of the Apple Plus series Friends and Neighbors.
This episode features a couple, including actor John ham not
only breaking into a Catholic church, but busting into a
tabernacle and snacking on the hosts. Sadly, the characters and
(21:06):
the writers know exactly what they're doing.
Speaker 2 (21:09):
Wa, this is the body of Christ.
Speaker 3 (21:15):
Should be careful.
Speaker 2 (21:17):
Father, your reaction to this.
Speaker 1 (21:18):
I mean, first of all, just the idea of breaking
into a church for snacks during a date. I doubt
we'd see John hamm breaking into a mosque on TV.
Speaker 3 (21:26):
But go on now. This is reprehensible and outrageous and
so offensive to the religious sentiments of a large percentage
of the American population, let alone of the world. It
is coming from the media empire, which basically says the
(21:49):
church is an insensitive group of people who regularly offend
people and shouldn't do it. And they do the exact
opposite of what they claim other people should be doing.
They offend people, and they do it knowingly mocking the
sacraments of the Catholic Church by having an act. You know,
in this case, the character break into a tabernacle when
(22:10):
the priest isn't in church and then giving a Holy Communion.
As a snack, the woman brings some kind of jam
and dips the host the body of Christ into the
jam and eats it. And then he puts the tabern
the seborium on the floor at a certain point and
lays on top of this woman in a bench until
a priest discovers them and throws them out. This is horrible,
(22:36):
This is absolutely insane. Apple is a huge corporation which
has a huge audience and religiously diverse population. Why in
the world would they single out a group to attack
who form a large part of their clientele. It's outrageous.
It reflects sad to say, and I wish Bill Dunney
you I hope Bill Dunne you will be able to
(22:58):
speak on this publicly. But this reflects a mindset of
the elites that treats religion as an obstacle to everything
that we want to do in the future. And what
do we do We tear religion down by mocking it.
These people should not mock religion. If anything, they should
look in the mirror and say, how am I being
unfaithful to my creative tolerance by doing this?
Speaker 2 (23:18):
M Yeah, no, it's outrageous.
Speaker 1 (23:20):
And again, the most sacred species in the Catholic Church,
the body and blood of Jesus in the Eucharus. I mean,
you would never take the most sacred aspect of another
faith and profane it in this way and make jokes
of it and then give voice to it. I mean
I was stunned when he says, this is the body
of Christ. Now you're culpable.
Speaker 2 (23:39):
It's really bad for you. So I think people really
should register their displeasure with this. It was a horrible scene.
Speaker 3 (23:46):
Apple needs to hear from the people. Why in the
world will we even think of doing anything like this
as an entertainment form. You're treating religion as something that
needs to be put down in crushed. Well, that, my friends,
is the atheistic program that is promoted by this notch.
We have to stop it. Apple's got to hear. We
(24:08):
don't want this garbage.
Speaker 1 (24:10):
I want to move on to a story, and this
is breaking that Pope Leo had a phone call with
Russian President Vladimir Putin.
Speaker 2 (24:18):
I'll read you the Vatican print out.
Speaker 1 (24:20):
It says during the phone call, in addition to matters
of mutual interest, special attention was paid to the situation
in Ukraine and peace. The Pope made an appeal for
Russia to make a gesture that would promote peace, stress
the importance of dialogue, for the realization of positive contacts
between the parties and seek solutions to the conflict. Father
(24:43):
there was some talk weeks ago that the Vatican was
willing to host a negotiation between Zelenski and Putin. It's
not explicitly mentioned in this readout, but maybe that was
part of the conversation here, and that's what's what the
jes sure peace is referencing No.
Speaker 3 (25:02):
I think that's in the background of this. Obviously, Pope Leo,
as the new Pope, has already expressed the desire, you know,
for an end of this war, the Russian assault on
Ukraine and for the you know, the people, the rights
of the Ukrainian people need to be restored. So that
is something that he's spoken about. And of course you're
(25:22):
absolutely right. He even offered to have the Vatican as
the place.
Speaker 2 (25:26):
And for me, this is perfect.
Speaker 3 (25:29):
Don't go to Geneva or Brussels, go to the spiritual
center here. In many ways of the whole world, certainly
of Europe and the Christian history, and say, look, both
Russia claims to be, you know, a religiously respectful country,
even though they demolished Orthodox churches in the Ukraine, to
come together in a place where Jesus is worshiped and
(25:51):
honored and say, Jesus, we want to stop this. I'm afraid,
of course, potent you know, KGB has lots of ways
of acting, and you know.
Speaker 1 (26:00):
Yeah, yeah, well he's the fact that he had the conversation.
I thought, it's a good sign.
Speaker 3 (26:04):
It's good time. Amen.
Speaker 1 (26:06):
Final question, I guess the Pope is making a visit
to the United States, at least virtually father. On June fourteenth,
Chicago's Great Field will be featuring a Mass and a
prayer service with a video message from the hometown Pope.
I don't think we've ever seen a pope speak to
his hometown in an arena where he once attended games.
Speaker 2 (26:27):
This is a first.
Speaker 3 (26:30):
Well, I'm all in favor of it, by the way,
I mean, no, that's a great for the archide. Chicago
has to rejoice. I mean, one of their sons is
now the Pope in Rome, he's the Pontiffs so and then, yeah,
I love baseball, you know. I think it's a great
sport and it certainly defines American history. So you know,
Pope Leo is a ballfan, and it's great that the
(26:52):
Chicago White Sox are doing this in the darch diocese.
So you know, God bless the Cardinal Supic and his
priests are going to be there. And yeah, the video message. Yeah,
you know, one of the things we hear is priests.
Oh you know what do priests doing their free time? Well,
one thing, I watched baseball and I went through Yankee
game a few weeks ago. I know, Hope Leo won
the baseball games.
Speaker 1 (27:12):
Yes, so good, I mean yeah, just because these interest
These are good healthy pastimes and I love the idea.
You know they have this image now near the seat
where he sat during the World Series. Yeah, so they're
really the great field is really putting on the dog
for the for the Pope, and that's a good thing.
We will leave it there. Father, thank you so much
(27:33):
for the time. The Posse will meet again. Thank you
for being here. And if you want more of the
Royal Grande prayerful Posse who doesn't subscribe at the Royal
Grande Show, either on YouTube or Royal Grande podcast wherever
you get yours on behalf of Father, Jerry Murray, Robert Royal,
our our hidden Posse member. Until the Posse rides again,
(27:55):
Stay the course, follow the light.
Speaker 2 (27:57):
I'm raiming a Royal We'll see you next time.
Speaker 1 (28:00):
Royal Grande is producing partnership with iHeart Podcasts and available
on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.
After our last show and wide media coverage, the Bishop
of Charlotte North Carolina is slowing limitations to the traditional
at Mass, but other dioceses are pressing forward. We'll tell
you which ones and what will Pope Leo the fourteenth
do on this edition of The Prayerful Posse. Thanks welcome
(00:24):
to this Arroyo Grande series, The Prayerful Posse, where we
dive into matters of faith and its impact on culture.
I want to convene the Posse joining me now, Father
Gerald Murray, canon lawyer from the Archdiocese of New York,
and I'm Raymond Arroyo.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
Bob is out traversing the planes, Father, but it will
be back next week.
Speaker 1 (00:43):
Go subscribe to the Arroyo Grande podcast on iHeart, Apple,
Spotify or on YouTube at Arroyo Grande Show so you
don't miss an episode of the Posse.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
Father, I want to get to the biggest story of
the week.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
We spent last week's episode exposing those newly an ounst
policies of Bishop Michael Martin to stamp out the traditional
Latin Mass in all but one chapel in his Charlotte
North Carolina diocese. He claimed he was doing it to
promote the concord and unity of the church. Well well, well,
(01:16):
after a ferocious backlash both inside and outside the Charlotte Diocese,
bishop Martin is slowing his role. He's still planning on
killing the Mass in four parishes and allowing it in
that new chapel, but instead of July eighth, the changes
will occur now on October second. Bishop Martin says this
(01:37):
will allow the faithful and clergy to quote absorb the changes.
Your reaction, father, I mean, he's still killing the mass.
Speaker 3 (01:45):
If he doesn't change in October. So I mean, he
was pretty sad on changing it now in July, and
we are now in June. So this was basically a
matter of a few weeks away, four weeks or so. No,
I think this is very wise decision on his part. Sure,
he never expected the level of upsetness that this would create,
and then beyond the borders, so to speak. So yeah,
(02:08):
I'm very pleased he made this decision because, as he
said in his communication, if Pope Leo makes another decision,
any other decision regarding the Mass, then they'll abide by that.
So that's that's a very wise decision. In fact, that
would have been the wisdom, don't do anything until Pope
Leo makes some provision, because we all know this is
one of the top agenda items that's sitting on his desk,
(02:31):
what to do about Latin mess Yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:34):
Well, we talked about this last week when Pope Francis
died and this was still a source of such controversy.
Why do anything until you get new guidance from the
new man in charge. But visa via the Pope, Pope
Leo met with Cardinal Roche, who's the head of the
Vatican's Liturgy Office, very early in the week. Did that
(02:55):
have any effect, do you think or might it have?
Speaker 3 (03:00):
You know, it's possible that the Pope has been briefed
on the situation in Charlotte and may have asked Cardinal
Rose to, you know, put a little bit of space
in between you know, the document from Bishop Martin and
what's going to happen eventually. And if that's the case,
that's all to the good. We don't know that, so
that's speculation, but it's a nice thing that the Bishop
(03:23):
Martin has decided that it's in the interest of everyone
that nothing happened at the moment.
Speaker 1 (03:27):
Yeah, well, Bishop Martin and a lot of these bishops
mean to conform to Pope Francis's legislation Tradisionis Custodis, which
demanded the stamping out of the ancient Latin. Right before
we go further, Father, after last week's show, I had
a lot of people asking us, who cares what language
the Mass is in? If it's Latin or Spanish or English,
(03:49):
the Mass is the Mass, But actually this traditional Latin
Mass is the ancient Roman, right, it's a different version
of the Mass. Explain how it's more than language at
issue here.
Speaker 3 (04:01):
Yeah, Latin is kind of like the tag you put
on it, because all the Masses were in Latin, no
matter what country you lived in. And then after Vatican
Two the vernacular was introduced, so now we have the
new Mass in English and French and Spanish, et cetera.
The ritual is different in the sense that the forms
of the prayers were changed. Some prayers were excised from
(04:23):
the new Mass. A series of new eucharistic prayers, for instance,
were added to the new Missile which weren't in the old.
Prayers at the foot of the altar were done away with,
except for the confedio or, which was modified that's the
confession of sin beginning of Mass to ask pardon. The
offeratory prayers were changed, other rituals were changed. We used
(04:44):
to say Lord, I am not worthy three times, now
we say it once. The kiria used to be nine
kirie kyrie kirrie christe eleis on, etc. So there were
changes which you know, were basically it was like a
slim down version of the old Mass with some new additions.
And it didn't really meet the expectations I think of
(05:07):
a lot of people, and you know, the dissatisfaction that
exists has not gone away over time. And I jopp
All the second and Benedict recognized it and then they
made accommodations.
Speaker 2 (05:18):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (05:18):
Well, and now, as you mentioned earlier, Bishop Martin has
said in Charlotte, he will change his policy depending on
whether the Vatican comes forward and offers an amendment to
put Francis's letter Apostolic letter on this issue. Do you
expect Pope Leo to amend that Apostolic letter? Cardinal Guhl
(05:41):
of Singapore was quoted in a recent interview with saying
that why are you barring people from going to the
traditional Latin Mass?
Speaker 3 (05:49):
You know, I do expect they'll be this issue will
be addressed because it's one of the hot button issues
that you know dog the last years of the pontificate
of Pope Francis. You know, people could not understand, as
we've discussed on this, uh these airwaves, how is it
that a group of people going to church on Sunday
the next week are said, you can't come in here anymore?
Before I ask you want is no longer celebrate? No,
(06:12):
we have empty churches? Why would you empty them out?
Even further so, I mean it doesn't make from a
pastoral point of view, why would you, you know, put
a stop sign in front of people who want to
come and worship. Now, the issues about liturgical order and
unity in the church, that's something that Benedict and Pope
John Paul the Second addressed and have thought about. And
(06:33):
then the experience with their accommodations to the old mask
crowd was very well received. You know, I think you
said once on this on this program. You know, one
week you go to the old Mass, the next week
you go to the New Mass, and there's no problem.
You just say this week I do this, next week
I do that. I think that's the kind of approach
we need.
Speaker 1 (06:54):
Yeah, well, it's you know, as we mentioned last week,
I almost think of it as music. You don't pro
opera or never go to an opera because you listen
to jazz. Now, the fact is there are times when
you want opera and there's something beautiful there. But in
the sense of the Mass, it's much more than music.
This is worship of God and the ancient worship of God.
And I think young people are coming for just that. Father,
(07:16):
You see them in your parish and in your diocese.
But look less people think that Charlotte, North Carolina is
the only place where the Latin Mass is being stamped out.
Speaker 2 (07:26):
If you believe that, you're wrong.
Speaker 1 (07:28):
There are other places, like the Archdiocese of Detroit, where
the new Archbishop Edward Weisenberger has announced on July first,
the extraordinary form of the Mass will not be allowed
in any parish churches. Father, he says, the Vatican has
sole authority to grant parish's permission to celebrate this traditional Mass,
(07:50):
but it is allowed in other dioceses. What do you
make of this demand by Pope Francis that Rome be
the sole arbiter, the only party able to grant permission
to celebrate this mass.
Speaker 3 (08:02):
Well, yeah, this was one of the provisions of traditional
custodias that was most irksome because it's said the old
the traditional Latin Mass can be celebrated in places, but
not in parish churches. And you say to yourself, what
sense does that make. If it can still be celebrated,
why would you restrict it from the place where people
(08:24):
actually go to Mass on a regular basis. The idea
essentially was it was sort of like, you know, Death
by a thousand cuts. You know, well, well, first we'll
get it out of parishes, then we'll put it in chapels,
and then we'll restrict how many you can have, and
then people lose interest, which is you know, for me,
that was a pastially irresponsible approach. And the fact of
(08:47):
the matter is when the Vatican issued that the document
saying that only it couldn't happen in parish churches, bishops
could then write to Vatican say I'd like an exemption
for that. It's called a dispensation in law, and if
it has been granted, Because of course, local bishops turned
to Romans in the Wait a minute, is this the
kind of centralization that's going to promote harmony in the church,
(09:10):
where people in Rome make decisions about where people can
go to Mass, the local bishops knows more. In fact,
that's one of the things you know, we're talking about
Vatican two. Yeah, the great aspects of Vatican Two was
returning responsibility to diocesan bishops for the ordinary pastoral care
of they're faithful. So this was undue centralization, but it
(09:30):
was in pursuit of a goal, because you're right, Pope
Francis wanted to stamp out the old Mass. He didn't
want to do it immediately. And you know, now that
he's gone to the Lord, it's up to the next
pope to say that was a laudable goal, We're going
to continue to stamp it out, or he's going to say, no,
that was a mistaken approach. We're going to go back
to what Benedict had arranged a nice accommodation.
Speaker 1 (09:51):
Well, in the Diocese of Jefferson City, the former bishop
there got just what you mentioned, a dispensation to allow
the Latin Mass at want one one parish church. At
the end of June, Father, that extension will end and
there will be no Latin Mass in Jefferson City. Now,
why is this such a controversy.
Speaker 2 (10:12):
I mean, it's an.
Speaker 1 (10:12):
Ancient mass, it's the foundation of the new Mass. Why
wouldn't you want people to see it or at least
make the connection that this came from that.
Speaker 2 (10:22):
Why would you want to deny that to people?
Speaker 3 (10:24):
Well, you know, there are a lot of speculation on this.
We know that Post Francis asserted multiple times that people
who like to go to the Old Mass basically have
an emotional problem, that they're attached to externalities and ancient
things and they're looking for security blankets. Essentially, for me,
that was a caricature and basically a false narrative. It's
(10:46):
not the reality, and I've seen that on the ground.
There was another the liturgical school promoting this, which is
associated with Sanencelmo and Rome. They're basically saying no turgical
movement meant we walked away from that past expression, we're
not going back. So they put it in terms of
like a Hegelian progress thing. Things only get better over
(11:10):
time and we have to kind of go along with
where things are going. And the answer to that is no.
Wait a minute. One of the goals that the Segrament
accounts was resourcement, meaning going back to the ancient fonts
of Christian teaching and gaining a new appreciation well liturgically.
So many things that were introduced into the New Mass
were innovations. They weren't getting back to ancient custom. The
(11:33):
three eucharistic prayers, these were his or innovations. Now one
of them is based on an ancient form, but it's
certainly not the ancient form. It was modified and reduced.
So with all these details, I can basically say Poet
Francis's lack of sympathy for people who go to the
Latin Mass I think overshadowed his pastoral judgment, which is
to say, why in the world would I tell people
(11:55):
I don't want you going to your parish church on
Sunday because you don't like to go to the New Mass.
You like you the old Mess. I'm glad they want
to go to Mass.
Speaker 2 (12:03):
Right, who cares?
Speaker 1 (12:05):
I mean, assuming that these are illicit and valid versions
of the Mass, which no one has ever contended that
they weren't, this is a problem. Doesn't Pope Leo Father
have to address this? I mean, there's a fundamental disagreement
here between the two previous popes, Benedict and Francis Benedict
said this was what was true and holy in the past,
(12:28):
remains true and holy today. Francis comes along and he says, no,
the traditional right is a form of rebellion against the
Second Vatican Counsul.
Speaker 2 (12:37):
It needs to be stamped out.
Speaker 1 (12:38):
Didn't this set up a competition between the two rights
rather than a harmony?
Speaker 3 (12:43):
It did? It did, and it basically imputed motives to
people who like the Old Mass that they are that
they don't accept Vatican two. No, I don't think that's
the case. There may be a few. But then the
questions were, what don't they accept That's a long debate.
We're not going to get into that. The vast majority
of people just want to go to a reverent Mass, right, So,
and that's and then yeah, the idea, by the way,
(13:07):
if you accept the premise people with emotional problems go
to the Old Mass, which I don't accept. No, Well,
what response to a person with an emotional difficulty is
to say, we're punishing you. No more candy, no more,
no more ice cream.
Speaker 2 (13:21):
Go to the firehouse on Sunday.
Speaker 3 (13:22):
Yeah, you have to go somewhere. I mean, we basically
say to people, let's get to the root of the
issue here, Why is it that you like the Old Mass?
You know, one of the nice things about Pope Leo,
and everybody was saying it and the lead up to
his installation was he's a good listener. He's a good listener.
So I think, you know he's he lives in the
(13:43):
Anglo sphere, meaning he's aware of what's being discussed in
English language media. And if there's one topic that crosses
the Atlantic pretty quickly, it's what do you do with
the Pope Francis suppression of the Old Mass?
Speaker 1 (13:55):
Yeah, no, this is definitely a hot topic, and I
know he's aware of it. I want to hit some
other areas where Pope Leo made news this week. It
was widely reported that Leo had corrected that's the way
it was depicted. Corrected Pope Francis this week who intimated
in a couple of gatherings that couples living together in fidelity,
(14:17):
just living together, that that was like a marriage. And
Pope Leo said this week at the Family Jubilee quote,
perhaps many young people today who choose cohabitation instead of
Christian marriage in reality needs someone to show them in
a concrete and clear way, especially by the example of
their lives, what the gift of sacramental grace is and
(14:40):
what strength derives from it. Someone to help them understand
the beauty and grandeur of the vocation to love and
the service of life that God gives to married couples.
And that's a quote from John Paul. The second from
familiaris consortio, and then he goes on marriage is not
an ideal, but the canon of true love between a
(15:00):
man and a woman, total faithful love. Your thoughts father
at this jime.
Speaker 3 (15:06):
No beautiful thoughts, a beautiful teaching from Pope Leo. It's
precisely the kind of thing that we need. We we
live in a world where cohabitation for marriage for Catholics
is now basically the universal practice in the United States.
That doesn't mean every single couple, but I've been a priest.
When I was a priest or or dain forty years ago,
it was the rarity for a couple to live together. Yeah,
(15:27):
now I basically expected. And most people when you ask them,
what's the where do you live with your dress? You
know the same as that, And most people don't realize
that it's wrong, because you know, they understand that the
Church doesn't accept it. But there's the social stigma attached
to living before marriage is gone in the United States,
and sad to say, in the Catholic Church we followed suit.
(15:49):
So Leo's making a great reminder and that's very encouraging,
you know. And marriage is not an ideal. In other words,
observing the law of God is not an ideal because
we say, you know, in an ideal world, you know, uh,
my favorite baseball player with bat five hundred. You know, well,
of course, in an ideal world. Yeah, but guess what,
(16:11):
no one expects him to hit five hundred. But I
don't say in an ideal world, married couples remain faithful
for life. No, we say, marriage by nature is for life, right,
and therefore you conform to nature if you want to
cooperate with God's plan and.
Speaker 1 (16:24):
It's a lived reality. It's to be lived, not to
be imagined. And I think that's what he's saying there.
And we during the last Pontifica, we heard a lot
about dreaming and imagining and dreaming, and I think Pope Leo.
Speaker 2 (16:35):
Is very practical here. What do you make of all
these dating apps? Father?
Speaker 1 (16:40):
I mean, you look, I imagine you deal with marriage
prep every week with young people in your parish. Has
the technology made things harder for them to find that
mate that they can spend the rest of their lives
with and be married to.
Speaker 3 (16:54):
Well, you know, I'm up two minds on dating apps.
You know, here's someone who's a peer for the last
twelve years on YouTube on a regular basis. So I'm
not going to criticize the internet. Because the internet allowed
more people to hear sermons and listen to your discussions
of news and the church. This has goal to the good.
So dating apps are you know, kind of like you know,
(17:17):
if father knew how she talked about the naked public square.
This isn't a naked public square unless you go to
the wrong dating apps. You know, this isn't dating apps
that are decent and responsible and had protections. Those are
good and I do not criticize them. So the sad
part is that we live in a world because of
various factors, where people don't ing commingle in common spaces
(17:42):
the way they used to. I mean, one of the
nice things about New Orleans is that the architecture teaches
you how people lived. In other words, the narrow streets,
the houses all together. The cathedral has a plaza because
you got a space in front of the church where
people can mean, that's how people used to live. Now
you live in an apartment building, your car is parked
(18:03):
in an underground space. You get in your car, you
drive to work, you don't see anybody. Yeah, so there
alternate ways. So I would say some of those dating
apps horrible. I'd stay away from them. They're basically promoting
fornication and adultery. But decent, good ones and they're out
there allow people to get to know each other, so
(18:24):
that's good.
Speaker 1 (18:25):
Yeah, I want to move on to a Netherlands. Cardinal
William Aiku is a medical doctor. We talked about him
during the conclave. Those who watch regularly will remember he's
calling for the Church father to come together and give
more attention to church teaching on gender affirming therapies and
transgender treatments. He says, the connection between biological and creation
(18:50):
and biological sex and gender are really important and are
lost here.
Speaker 2 (18:55):
Why is that not well articulated?
Speaker 3 (18:57):
Do you think it's not articulated because there's a section
of the church, including some bishops, who accept this erroneous
notion that a man can claim to be a woman,
and a woman can claim to be a man, and
they don't view gender confusion as a problem. But that
is kind of like, you know, well now I discovered
(19:18):
who I really am. The church doesn't teach this, it
cannot teach it. Unfortunately, Pope Francis and his pastoral openness,
he used to sadly an occasion he would refer to
transvestite says she or he when they weren't. He would
have a group come to his audiences that a nun
he knows used to deal with and just say this
is don't do this. It was a famous story when
(19:41):
a Spanish woman who claimed to be a man said,
you know, I've got married to a woman. I'd like
the two of us to come and visit you in Rome,
and Pope said, come on over, and then he called
her a woman even though she was a man. And
by the way, you can't be married if you're two women.
So and the Pope called the other woman the spouse.
I mean, just that was Pope Francis. It was a
sloppy it was unthought out, in my opinion, because elsewhere
(20:04):
he criticized gender ideologies. Yes, anyway, no Cardinal Ike is
what I like about him. Is he stating something which
is a simple truth that nobody would have questioned during
the pontificates of John Paul the second in Benedict sad
to say confusion during the pontificty of Post Francis led
some people you know and we you know, we have incidents.
(20:27):
We won't get into details, but Bishop's publicly tolerating this
kind of masquerade where people dress up like the opposite sex,
claim to be, you know, a man or a woman,
and they're not rebuked or given pastoral guidance to stop it.
So good for the cardinal.
Speaker 1 (20:43):
Like okay, an outrageous story, I have to get to
an episode of the Apple Plus series Friends and Neighbors.
This episode features a couple, including actor John ham not
only breaking into a Catholic church, but busting into a
tabernacle and snacking on the hosts. Sadly, the characters and
(21:06):
the writers know exactly what they're doing.
Speaker 2 (21:09):
Wa, this is the body of Christ.
Speaker 3 (21:15):
Should be careful.
Speaker 2 (21:17):
Father, your reaction to this.
Speaker 1 (21:18):
I mean, first of all, just the idea of breaking
into a church for snacks during a date. I doubt
we'd see John hamm breaking into a mosque on TV.
Speaker 3 (21:26):
But go on now. This is reprehensible and outrageous and
so offensive to the religious sentiments of a large percentage
of the American population, let alone of the world. It
is coming from the media empire, which basically says the
(21:49):
church is an insensitive group of people who regularly offend
people and shouldn't do it. And they do the exact
opposite of what they claim other people should be doing.
They offend people, and they do it knowingly mocking the
sacraments of the Catholic Church by having an act. You know,
in this case, the character break into a tabernacle when
(22:10):
the priest isn't in church and then giving a Holy Communion.
As a snack, the woman brings some kind of jam
and dips the host the body of Christ into the
jam and eats it. And then he puts the tabern
the seborium on the floor at a certain point and
lays on top of this woman in a bench until
a priest discovers them and throws them out. This is horrible,
(22:36):
This is absolutely insane. Apple is a huge corporation which
has a huge audience and religiously diverse population. Why in
the world would they single out a group to attack
who form a large part of their clientele. It's outrageous.
It reflects sad to say, and I wish Bill Dunney
you I hope Bill Dunne you will be able to
(22:58):
speak on this publicly. But this reflects a mindset of
the elites that treats religion as an obstacle to everything
that we want to do in the future. And what
do we do We tear religion down by mocking it.
These people should not mock religion. If anything, they should
look in the mirror and say, how am I being
unfaithful to my creative tolerance by doing this?
Speaker 2 (23:18):
M Yeah, no, it's outrageous.
Speaker 1 (23:20):
And again, the most sacred species in the Catholic Church,
the body and blood of Jesus in the Eucharus. I mean,
you would never take the most sacred aspect of another
faith and profane it in this way and make jokes
of it and then give voice to it. I mean
I was stunned when he says, this is the body
of Christ. Now you're culpable.
Speaker 2 (23:39):
It's really bad for you. So I think people really
should register their displeasure with this. It was a horrible scene.
Speaker 3 (23:46):
Apple needs to hear from the people. Why in the
world will we even think of doing anything like this
as an entertainment form. You're treating religion as something that
needs to be put down in crushed. Well, that, my friends,
is the atheistic program that is promoted by this notch.
We have to stop it. Apple's got to hear. We
(24:08):
don't want this garbage.
Speaker 1 (24:10):
I want to move on to a story, and this
is breaking that Pope Leo had a phone call with
Russian President Vladimir Putin.
Speaker 2 (24:18):
I'll read you the Vatican print out.
Speaker 1 (24:20):
It says during the phone call, in addition to matters
of mutual interest, special attention was paid to the situation
in Ukraine and peace. The Pope made an appeal for
Russia to make a gesture that would promote peace, stress
the importance of dialogue, for the realization of positive contacts
between the parties and seek solutions to the conflict. Father
(24:43):
there was some talk weeks ago that the Vatican was
willing to host a negotiation between Zelenski and Putin. It's
not explicitly mentioned in this readout, but maybe that was
part of the conversation here, and that's what's what the
jes sure peace is referencing No.
Speaker 3 (25:02):
I think that's in the background of this. Obviously, Pope Leo,
as the new Pope, has already expressed the desire, you know,
for an end of this war, the Russian assault on
Ukraine and for the you know, the people, the rights
of the Ukrainian people need to be restored. So that
is something that he's spoken about. And of course you're
(25:22):
absolutely right. He even offered to have the Vatican as
the place.
Speaker 2 (25:26):
And for me, this is perfect.
Speaker 3 (25:29):
Don't go to Geneva or Brussels, go to the spiritual
center here. In many ways of the whole world, certainly
of Europe and the Christian history, and say, look, both
Russia claims to be, you know, a religiously respectful country,
even though they demolished Orthodox churches in the Ukraine, to
come together in a place where Jesus is worshiped and
(25:51):
honored and say, Jesus, we want to stop this. I'm afraid,
of course, potent you know, KGB has lots of ways
of acting, and you know.
Speaker 1 (26:00):
Yeah, yeah, well he's the fact that he had the conversation.
I thought, it's a good sign.
Speaker 3 (26:04):
It's good time. Amen.
Speaker 1 (26:06):
Final question, I guess the Pope is making a visit
to the United States, at least virtually father. On June fourteenth,
Chicago's Great Field will be featuring a Mass and a
prayer service with a video message from the hometown Pope.
I don't think we've ever seen a pope speak to
his hometown in an arena where he once attended games.
Speaker 2 (26:27):
This is a first.
Speaker 3 (26:30):
Well, I'm all in favor of it, by the way,
I mean, no, that's a great for the archide. Chicago
has to rejoice. I mean, one of their sons is
now the Pope in Rome, he's the Pontiffs so and then, yeah,
I love baseball, you know. I think it's a great
sport and it certainly defines American history. So you know,
Pope Leo is a ballfan, and it's great that the
(26:52):
Chicago White Sox are doing this in the darch diocese.
So you know, God bless the Cardinal Supic and his
priests are going to be there. And yeah, the video message. Yeah,
you know, one of the things we hear is priests.
Oh you know what do priests doing their free time? Well,
one thing, I watched baseball and I went through Yankee
game a few weeks ago. I know, Hope Leo won
the baseball games.
Speaker 1 (27:12):
Yes, so good, I mean yeah, just because these interest
These are good healthy pastimes and I love the idea.
You know they have this image now near the seat
where he sat during the World Series. Yeah, so they're
really the great field is really putting on the dog
for the for the Pope, and that's a good thing.
We will leave it there. Father, thank you so much
(27:33):
for the time. The Posse will meet again. Thank you
for being here. And if you want more of the
Royal Grande prayerful Posse who doesn't subscribe at the Royal
Grande Show, either on YouTube or Royal Grande podcast wherever
you get yours on behalf of Father, Jerry Murray, Robert Royal,
our our hidden Posse member. Until the Posse rides again,
(27:55):
Stay the course, follow the light.
Speaker 2 (27:57):
I'm raiming a Royal We'll see you next time.
Speaker 1 (28:00):
Royal Grande is producing partnership with iHeart Podcasts and available
on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.
Host
Raymond Arroyo
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