Is James Gunn's Superman poised to soar into box office glory—or is it headed for a political nosedive? On this episode of The Arroyo Grande Show, Raymond Arroyo is joined by film critic Christian Toto to break down the creative and cultural controversy surrounding the latest reboot of the iconic American superhero. With Warner Bros. reportedly investing nearly $400 million into this film, the stakes couldn’t be higher.
Raymond discusses Gunn’s recent political statements, the film’s immigration messaging, and whether the character of Superman has been stripped of his classic values like “truth, justice, and the American way.” They also examine the legacy of Christopher Reeve’s Superman, the impact of early reviews, and why fan backlash over characters like Crypto the Superdog may be just the beginning of the film’s challenges.
Is this a Superman for the people—or a misfire dressed in a cape?
Subscribe for more interviews, film commentary, and cultural analysis on The Arroyo Grande Show. Available on iHeartRadio, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and wherever you get your podcasts.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
James Gunn's New Superman is flying into cinemas, but given
the director's political comments, will it be a bird, a plane,
or a bomb at the box office. Film critic Christian
Toto joins me on this edition of The Arroyo Grande Show.
Come on, I'm rave an Arroyo. Welcome to the Arroyo
(00:30):
Grande Show. Go subscribe now and turn those notifications on.
I want you to know what's coming up and if
you'd like to like the show, I'd enjoy that. Did
you see where James Gunn's New Superman is coming to theaters.
Let me tell you why this matters. Superman is in
some way an avatar for America and the American dream.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
The question is, is.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
James Gunn Superman true to the spirit and the ideals
of the character. DC Studio and Gunn have a lot
riding on this between filming and marketing. It's estimated that
Warner Brothers spent nearly four hundred million dollars on this movie.
James Gunn has made some controversial and political comments in
(01:14):
recent days that may scare off some filmgoers. We'll get
to those comments in a second, But the origins of
Superman are fascinating. The character was created by Jerry Siegel
and Joe Schuster, two Jewish boys in Cleveland, in nineteen
thirty three. Now, initially he was going to be a
villain Superman, but the boys found inspiration in Samson and
(01:36):
Moses and changed Superman into a hero, a savior who
stood for truth, justice, and the American way. More on
that later too. Siegel's wife says Schuster used her husband
as a model while he was drawing Superman, and his
alter ego, Clark Kent, was based on silent legend Harold Lloyd.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
He wore the glasses you'll remember.
Speaker 1 (02:02):
The first comic book was a huge hit, which spawned
a host of superheroes Batman and Wonder Woman, on and on.
Speaker 2 (02:09):
But Superman is different.
Speaker 1 (02:11):
He was a hero from another world who comes to
America and embraces its values as his own. He becomes
the American ideal. Of course, On the screen, George Reeves
played Superman in the forties and fifties. The gold standard
was director Richard Donner Superman in nineteen seventy eight, starring
Christopher Reeve, who, by the way, it was Donner who
(02:34):
coached Reeves to play Clark Kent. Like Carry Grant in
Bringing up Baby, and guess who Carry Grant was imitating
in that movie, Harold Lloyd. We'll talk in a moment
about why that film is hard to beat. Then there
was Superman Returns in two thousand and six with Brandon Ruth.
Of course, Henry Cavill led Zack Schneider's Man of Steel
(02:57):
in twenty thirteen. That film was well received and restored
Superman as the savior figure, which brings us to the
James Gunn Superman movie, who is not quite a savior
and may also not quite be your granddad Superman.
Speaker 2 (03:12):
My Superman is not indestructible. We see him bleed immediately.
Speaker 3 (03:17):
At times, I've thought he's too strong. You don't want
him to be able to be able to punch a
planet in half, or, for that matter, go around a
planet a billion times and make time go backwards. You know,
I wanted a Superman who was a little bit more
down to earth.
Speaker 1 (03:33):
I've got to bring a professional in on this before
I tell you what I think of this reboot. Joining
me now, Christian Toto, film critic and host of Hollywood
In Toto.
Speaker 2 (03:42):
Christian, thank you for being here.
Speaker 1 (03:43):
We're going to get to guns, really political comments in
a moment, But what do you make of that creative
choice that the hero is kind of a JV Superman.
He can be beat up, he can bleed, and apparently
does so regularly.
Speaker 4 (03:57):
Yeah, it seems like it's antithical to what Superman Man is. Listen,
he is a complicated figure. And I think that's why
that nineteen seventy eight version was and remain so magical,
because they seem to get almost everything right. A little
bit of humor, some romance, the boy scout nature of Superman,
and yet at the same time he seemed real and
one of us, And it's just it's a miracle of filmmaking.
(04:20):
I watched there recently and I was just stunned at
how well it has aged. Of course, Christopher Reeve is
absolutely the gold standard. Yeah, impossible to kind of recreate
what he brought to the character. But listen, you know,
different directors, different writers interpret characters in different ways, but
you always hope that there's the essence of that figure remaining.
(04:40):
We'll have to wait and see until it opens this week,
but it's certainly certainly room to question where what kind
of Superman will be seeing.
Speaker 1 (04:49):
Yeah, this doesn't seem to be Dick Donner's vision. You
know at play, did Mario Puzo write that script or I.
Speaker 4 (04:56):
Believe so, I think he had had any Yeah, I
he didn't directly write it. I think he co wrote it.
Or yeah, he definitely was involved in that creative process.
Speaker 2 (05:01):
Yeah, it had heft.
Speaker 1 (05:02):
I mean that Superman I like you, I watched it
recently and you forget so much what we saw to children,
and so when you go back to it, you're like, wow,
I mean it not only has heft and gravitas, but
you're right, it has a you know, there's a slapstick
quality to some of the play there.
Speaker 2 (05:18):
Christopher Reeves is incredible in the Rule.
Speaker 1 (05:20):
But Variety has this headline about the new James Gunn Superman.
It says James Gunn says Superman is about an immigrant
that came from other places and how we've lost the
value of human kindness.
Speaker 2 (05:35):
Yes, it's about politics.
Speaker 1 (05:38):
Here's the quote, Christian Superman is the story of America
in the sense that it follows an immigrant that came
from other places and populated the country. But for me,
it is mostly a story that says basic human kindness
is of value. And is something we've lost. And obviously
there will be jerks out there who are just not
(06:00):
kind and will take it as offensive just because it's
about kindness.
Speaker 2 (06:05):
But screw them. End quote.
Speaker 5 (06:08):
You said, it's an immigrant story, it's a political movie.
Speaker 2 (06:10):
Maga today is going nuts.
Speaker 6 (06:12):
What do you have to say to Maga?
Speaker 5 (06:14):
I have anything.
Speaker 6 (06:15):
I think the movie's for everybody. I don't have anything
to say to anybody, like I'm not here to judge people,
you know, you know. I think this is a movie
about kindness, and I think that's something everyone can relate to.
Speaker 1 (06:27):
Let's start with, is it really about kindness, Christian or
is that kind of a veil for the political opinions
that Gun holds.
Speaker 4 (06:35):
I read those quotes and I just my job was
a gape. Here we are days before this movie opens.
There is so much writing on this, not just for
the summer, not just for Hollywood, for the whole DC
Comics universe, a for Gun himself, who's been put in
charge of this. And then to make these clumsiest sides
to what's going on in the country right now, and
(06:56):
assuming that if you're anti illegal immigration, you're not kind.
It's just such a leap and such an unnecessary thing
for him to say. You know, I'm always amazed that
at the actors and the directors when they they talk
to the press, there's one mission. It is to sell
your product. To sell, you're not trying to do anything else.
You're not trying to be creative. It's you're talking to
(07:18):
Variety or some other publication because you want to get
fannies in the seats and to bring up a divisive issue,
to speak in a way that is unkind and clumsy.
I'm just I'm amazed he did it.
Speaker 7 (07:32):
Amazed he did it so soon.
Speaker 4 (07:33):
But I'm starting to get a theory, and some other
people have said this that maybe the finished product isn't
very good and he's.
Speaker 7 (07:39):
Been me doing pre damage control.
Speaker 2 (07:41):
I don't know.
Speaker 7 (07:42):
It's just shocking.
Speaker 1 (07:44):
Yeah, yeah, Well it's hard to preach kindness while you're
telling people to screw off.
Speaker 2 (07:49):
I mean, that's it. That's a tough balance.
Speaker 1 (07:51):
You know, you don't do that to an audience. But
tell me, what's the danger of framing this the entire
movie and there's hundreds of millions of dollars riding this
movie for Warner Brothers and DC Studios. What's the danger
of framing this as a commentary on immigration at this moment.
I mean, why politicize this movie at all?
Speaker 4 (08:11):
On the serface, I just don't know. You know, it
doesn't make any sense.
Speaker 7 (08:15):
Listen.
Speaker 4 (08:16):
You could go into the movie and bring your own
thoughts and feelings into it and kind of say, you know,
the way this.
Speaker 7 (08:21):
Character works and the way he's a stranger.
Speaker 4 (08:24):
I could see into that, and that's you know, you
give the audience that room while you're telling a great
story and while you're entertaining them, and then they can
bring any sort of biases or any sort of feelings
into it. Or maybe they think this way and they
watch the film and they emerge with a different perspective.
That's great and healthy. It's why movies are so magical.
But to get into this argument, to get into this
debate at this point in the culture, at a time
(08:46):
where audiences are exhausted by lectures and celebrities who just
can't stop wagging their fingers at us, it makes absolutely
no sense.
Speaker 2 (08:56):
Listen.
Speaker 4 (08:56):
If this was an any film and he's trying to
appeal to a base, god less, a wonderful way to
kind of stoke some interest and some passion into your movie.
But we're looking at a culture that is exhausted by woke,
that is exhausted by politics, that just chose a president
who did kind of basically it was a finger into
the eye of Hollywood in general. And to say this now,
I just it's the dumbest thing, because we have so
(09:19):
many ways to entertain ourselves and I could stay home,
I could watch the original Superman. I don't have to
go to the theater. Yeah, maybe many will do just that.
Speaker 2 (09:27):
Christian.
Speaker 1 (09:28):
You know, I was thinking the last lead wearing red,
white and blue, that may lose as much money as
this is snow White.
Speaker 2 (09:35):
I mean, this is not this is good.
Speaker 1 (09:37):
You think after Snow White and Indiana Jones, which only
had a you know, it had kind of a feminist undercurrent,
but it was very subtle, but the audience punished them
for that. So it's clear the audience doesn't want politics,
at least not partisan politics, to lead in any of
these beloved franchises. And yet James Gunn has decided he's
(09:57):
going down that path with Superman, or at least that's
how it sounds.
Speaker 2 (10:01):
Yeah, no, I agree.
Speaker 4 (10:01):
You know, the Rachel Zegler situation I really thought was
going to be the final wake up call. Yeah, don't
insult the ip. Don't insult your audience. Stay away from that.
Speaker 2 (10:12):
Listen.
Speaker 4 (10:12):
These are major movies with massive budgets. You talked about.
The marketing alone is just impressive, and the scope and
you take that money and you have to get your
return on investment.
Speaker 7 (10:24):
Listen.
Speaker 4 (10:24):
We just saw two movies that were very good and
very popular, the New Mission Impossible and also f One
that are doing great at the box office, but their
budgets are so big they probably won't be profitable. And
now a long come Superman, which needs to get all
that money to get it, you know, to get back
in the black, and then he does this. I mean,
I listen, I've been covering this industry for decades and
(10:46):
I'm just stunned.
Speaker 2 (10:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:47):
Well, these budgets are gargante one and it seems that's
the only thing studios want to put any money in.
Speaker 2 (10:52):
And we have to admit.
Speaker 1 (10:53):
Look, propaganda was in the DNA of Superman Christian from
the start. He was pro American propaganda. He literally fights
World War two in the early comic books. I mean,
every film has a theme, but why state it, why
give voice to it? Why not let people enjoy the ride,
and if the story is artful enough, they'll get your message.
Speaker 4 (11:14):
Yeah, I agree. I mean great art is that.
Speaker 5 (11:16):
You know.
Speaker 4 (11:17):
I remember when Dead Men Walking came out probably twenty
years ago, and it was so well crafted. No matter
where you stood on the death penalty, you could get
nourishment from that movie. You can kind of point to
it and say that's why I believe X. And great
art does that, and you don't need these kind of lectures.
And again that you know, James Gunn is a comic
book geek and God, God bless him for that, Like
(11:38):
he loves this genre and that's a good thing. And
the fact that he doesn't realize that these comments are
gonna ricochet around social media and YouTube in the days
and weeks.
Speaker 7 (11:47):
Following his movie.
Speaker 4 (11:48):
He must know that. He must realize, so, which again
brings me to the what else is he thinking?
Speaker 7 (11:54):
And I don't know the answer to that.
Speaker 4 (11:55):
I'd have to chat with him over a beer. Yeah,
but I almost think there's something else in play. The
role out to this movie has been very positive, very uplifting,
very apolitical, and then now bang, you get this.
Speaker 1 (12:07):
In the eleventh hour, they come in and kind of
you know, spoil all of that great marketing. Actually, Superman,
by the way, just for the record, Christian Superman is
a refugee, not an immigrant. But let's get to what
actor David Cornswitt, he is the new Superman. This is
what he had to say about his alter ego, who originally,
(12:28):
as I mentioned earlier, stood for truth, justice in the
American way.
Speaker 5 (12:34):
When he doesn't have to be Superman, when he doesn't
have to be this calm, reassuring presence to the public,
when he doesn't have to symbolize safety and security and
truth and justice and all those good things, he still
feels those values.
Speaker 4 (12:52):
Just can't say it, christian't say it?
Speaker 1 (12:55):
Why the abandonment of the core of this character the
American way? What's so dirty about that?
Speaker 2 (13:00):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (13:00):
I don't know, And you know, I don't think that
saying it is going to chase anyone away, But going
out of your way not to say it definitely leaves
a bad taste in your mouth. I think it just does.
And can't we have an American Hero? It's okay, you know,
if you live in Italy, if you live in Spain,
other countries, you could appreciate an American hero. Who fights
for justice. That's why is that repulsive?
Speaker 2 (13:22):
It's not.
Speaker 4 (13:23):
They could say, Okay, this is an American character who
happens to be very entertaining who I've followed for years,
and that's okay. If there was a Spain based hero
who was very loyalistic to his country and we loved
him for years, and I wouldn't be upset about that
and go see that movie.
Speaker 1 (13:38):
Well, you saw some of those maneuvering and narrative building
during the last Captain America relaunch, remember, and Gun's kind
of saying the same thing. He says Superman is quote
a hero for the world, and he's got the marketing
to back it up.
Speaker 2 (13:52):
And my question is, why is he wearing red, white,
and blue? Why aren't you wear Nato Perrywinkle blue? Is
your costume the blue helmet?
Speaker 1 (14:00):
Yeah?
Speaker 7 (14:00):
No, it's a great it's a.
Speaker 4 (14:02):
Great point, and it's so fascinating. But you know, this
is the culture of Hollywood where that's what you're taught
to think, that's what you're told to say, that's what
you hear NonStop. I mean, I don't think James Gunn
has probably heard a powerful oppositional point of view on
illegal immigration, He has no idea.
Speaker 7 (14:22):
He thinks it's just mean. Instead of saying, well.
Speaker 4 (14:25):
Maybe it's kind to the people who are here, or
maybe it avoids sex trafficking and child trafficking on the border,
or maybe it avoids the debts of illegal immigrants who
are killing people. That's kindness too, But he says, screw them,
just blunting.
Speaker 1 (14:40):
Well, I mean, if anybody's been down to the border
as I have, and you see these young girls who
have been trafficked, and that's it. They pay to be trafficked, essentially,
and then when they get here they are used.
Speaker 2 (14:51):
In the most horrible ways.
Speaker 1 (14:53):
I mean, there's nothing kind about that, nothing kind about that.
And we as a govern we as a people, should
should do all we can to stop that illegal trafficking
and find a way that's orderly for people who want
to come here. But we must have an orderly path,
and you can't just crash in or pay your way
(15:13):
into the country. It ends badly, and I think everybody's
just got to look at the facts and say, this
is a terrible situation. But whatever it is, it ain't kind.
And while we're on this, I also read where there's
some foreign countries fictional foreign countries in the Superman movie,
and a smaller country wants to blow up another that
(15:35):
apparently is not well armed, which some say in some
of the articles I've read and some people I've spoken to,
they say it's a doppelganger for Israel. Now, Gun tried
to swap that idea away. But how ironic is it
Christian that the creators of Superman were two Jewish boys
who often had him confronting Hitler himself in the early comics.
(15:58):
And now you might have a commentary on Israel in
the middle of this movie.
Speaker 4 (16:03):
Yeah, I mean, Gun has denied it, but then many
people will read its exactly that. Yeah, listen, I've been
covering Hollywood for the last two plus years after the
attacks of October seventh. Then to say that the industry
in general has been disappointing, cold, dismissive, ignoring the hostages.
I could go on and on about how this industry
has not risen the occasion, with very few exceptions like
(16:26):
John Andrassic and Patricia Heaton, Deborah Messing. It's been shocking
and just to see this to have a storyline that
even comes close to echoing those real world situations. And
then think how it could be interpreted.
Speaker 7 (16:39):
Just listen, we just.
Speaker 4 (16:41):
Saw a Top Gun Maverick and that kept the bad
guys so to speak, so generic, yeah, and so vague
that anyone could buy into the story. But this seems
much more specific.
Speaker 7 (16:51):
And again he can deny it.
Speaker 4 (16:54):
Who knows what he was thinking, and maybe he wants
us to believe his denial.
Speaker 2 (16:58):
M h. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:59):
There's some back forth between Lois Line and Superman about
whether he should intervene or he got involved, and whether
he should get more involved.
Speaker 2 (17:07):
There's this long debate in the middle of the movie.
Speaker 1 (17:11):
I just I do wonder and we'll get to some
of the early reviews in a moment.
Speaker 2 (17:15):
But tell me what's working.
Speaker 1 (17:17):
You know, you cover these movies day in and day
out as they're released. Why did F one work? Why
is that striking a chord? And again, as you mentioned,
they haven't they still haven't reached profitability yet.
Speaker 2 (17:29):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (17:29):
Well, I mean it works because it's a very engaging,
fun movie. It actually is from the director of Top
Gun Maverick, and it has a little bit of that
DNA in the movie, an older person trying to recapture
his glory. Just the filmmaking between the slick visuals and
the heart stamping action. It just has that same sense
of exhilaration of an old school blockbuster, the kind that's
(17:51):
not divisive that you're rooting for the hero. There's a
generational divide. Brad pitt character is competing against a much
younger driver, much like in Havegun Maverick, the Miles Teller
character is competing with our hero. So there's lots of
similarities there. But it's just a good time at the movies.
It is not as good as Top Gun Maverick. It
doesn't have the complexity, but it's engaging. And Brad Pitt
(18:14):
is playing a movie star. Yeah, he's a handsome guy.
He's leaning into his charisma and those things matter too.
Some directors just lean into that. You know, Quentin Tarantino
when he made Once Upon a Time in Hollywood made
Brad Pitt look like Brad Pitt. I know that sounds easier,
said that sounds like an easy thing to do. But
you know, if you just kind of say, hey, these
(18:34):
are beautiful people, we're gonna enjoy them on screen, this
is escapism and that's what that's all about.
Speaker 7 (18:40):
So it's making a lot of money.
Speaker 4 (18:41):
But again, the budget's so big, it's going to be
complicated whether it can make a profit.
Speaker 2 (18:45):
It's amazing.
Speaker 1 (18:46):
I mean, when you're dealing with four hundred million dollar budgets, well,
how do you make this money back? I mean, it's
in this marketplace where people just aren't going to the theaters
as they once were, which I frankly I mourn the
movie going experience.
Speaker 2 (19:01):
We went to see F one. Theater was half empty. Christian.
Speaker 1 (19:04):
You know, this is a week weeks ago when the
movie opened, and I was just kind of it takes
away from the enjoyment.
Speaker 2 (19:11):
Because you're not sharing it with as many people.
Speaker 4 (19:13):
I agree, it's one of the great things about seeing
it in a theater if it's a comedy, if it's
a horror movie, the chills around you, that laughs around you,
the sense of excitement.
Speaker 7 (19:22):
You just can't do that at home. You get the
big screen.
Speaker 4 (19:26):
I know it's comfortable.
Speaker 7 (19:26):
I have my own big.
Speaker 4 (19:27):
Screen, but it's not like the theater that communal experience
is amazing.
Speaker 1 (19:31):
Well, I think it's too comfortable. You know, they've tried
to turn it into your home basement, you know, with
the recliner chairs and the lazy boy. I don't like
all that sit up straight. You don't have to eat
a gallon of coke and popcorn. Just sit and watch
the movie and sit up straight and enjoy yourselves and
act like human beings.
Speaker 2 (19:48):
I've not seen.
Speaker 1 (19:49):
This movie yet, Christian but the Superman Movie, but I've
read some of the early reviews. The Daily Beast broke
the embargo and released their review, then they took it down.
It reads this way, the terrible New Superman Movie is
the final nail in the grave of the superhero genre.
It claims that guns film is quote a Saturday Morning cartoon,
(20:15):
overstuffed and Helter Skelter come to life, and it's jammed
with new characters Mister Terrific and Supergirl and Maxwell Lord,
on and on. Basically, they're introducing its drive bys of
the entire New DC universe.
Speaker 2 (20:29):
Your thoughts, Yeah, you know.
Speaker 4 (20:31):
I haven't been able to screen the movie. Actually, I'm
based in Denver, Colorado. They're not screening for critics here,
which is very weird. We get access to almost no
no answer, but we get access to almost every new movie.
But the trailers suggest that the clips the lack of
gravitas the Quippi humor. Listen, I think you introduced the
super Dog crypto maybe in the third or fourth sequel,
(20:54):
not out of the gate, and it looks like a
cgi dog to boot, which is like not cool. So listen,
I don't want to pre judge the movie, but the
snippets don't inspire me. Even the back and forth between
Lois Lane here again. You and I just saw the
original that those scenes were just poetic. They had to
strength to them. There was chemistry between the leads.
Speaker 7 (21:16):
It was sweet.
Speaker 4 (21:17):
It had so much to it in these scenes. The
snippets we've seen so far, it just seemed like a
snippet from a TV show. It just seems as simple
and as basic as that, and Superman shouldn't be basic.
I'm sorry, He's He's something different.
Speaker 1 (21:31):
No, the original Superman is. You're right, it's so complex.
You've got the great.
Speaker 2 (21:39):
Hagman playing Alex Luthor.
Speaker 1 (21:42):
You've got Margot Kidder and Christopher Reeves who really do
at moments evoke those old slapstick romantic comedies from the
twenties and thirties. I mean, there's a lot happening in
that movie, and Donnerd does such a good job of
balancing it all the fantastical with Marlon Brando on the
other Planet, and I mean, it's an incredible movie. And
(22:03):
so with all of that to live up to, you
do wonder why he decided to go down this path.
And it looks like I will tell you. I spoke
to an executive at Warner Brothers who said it's silly
and there are way too many characters. That was his
review of the movie. Now again, I haven't seen it,
That's what he said. I have to say. And I
(22:23):
know people love dogs. You mentioned this a moment ago.
I know people love dogs, but why does Superman's new dog,
Crypto so annoy me?
Speaker 2 (22:33):
Crypto?
Speaker 5 (22:36):
What the hey, dude, I thought you destroyed the whole
Superman Robots.
Speaker 2 (22:40):
I thought I told you to keep an eye on him.
Speaker 7 (22:41):
We feed the K ninety, but he is unruly.
Speaker 2 (22:45):
Superman Robots.
Speaker 1 (22:46):
But maybe it's Superman's dialogue and not the dog that
annoys me. Dude, it just doesn't feel right.
Speaker 7 (22:52):
Chrishnan, Yeah, it's funny.
Speaker 4 (22:53):
When I first saw the trailer for the film, I thought,
but Superman has the same as hairstyle as my teenage son.
I'm like, you know, I mean, why do you want
to kind of evoke this very moment. Superman is bigger
than that. You can watch the original movie and I
know it's in the nineteen seventies and you'll see the
dated references, but it doesn't feel like a period piece.
Speaker 7 (23:12):
It just feels like Superman. And I don't know.
Speaker 4 (23:15):
Again, these are little things and we nitpicked that. And
at the end of the day, if I sit in
my seat and I'm wildly entertained, I'm rooting for that.
I ultimately want that to happen for us all to
be surprised. But it's also hard not to read the
tea leaves.
Speaker 1 (23:28):
Yeah, Christian, this is like adding bat Might, you know,
as a sidekick to Batman. Batmight was kind of this
little alien fan of Batman. We don't know quite what
it was, but it showed up in some of the
animated iterations of Batman in the comic books. But it's
a side character. You don't want to see that front
and center when you're doing a reboot.
Speaker 7 (23:47):
Yeah, I'm a dog person.
Speaker 4 (23:50):
I'm your charget audience, and I'm like, wait, stop, no,
don't need it.
Speaker 2 (23:54):
That's not okay. I'm glad I'm not alone.
Speaker 1 (23:55):
Thank you for sympathizing would be on this. I know
my wife will hate me for saying them. Not about
it though, but it is annoying. What's your final gut
on this, Christian? I mean, James Gunn Superman. There's a
lot riding on this. How do you think it's going
to impact the DC Universe reboot overall?
Speaker 4 (24:13):
I think it's almost too big to fail. I think
they have to push forward to a degree. I think
there's such curiosity about the film that it'll do at
least well in the generic terms. I just don't think
it'll be huge unless it has that really solid word
of mouth. Remember the mouth is still the magic. Obviously,
just go on social media, spread it.
Speaker 7 (24:33):
Far and wide.
Speaker 4 (24:34):
But you know, we've seen movies like Tapka, Maverick, and
even Sinners, which is a very well constructed movie, and
people told their friends this is terrific, this is an
A plus vampire movie, and they came. So I think
if people are curious, they'll check it out, and then
if they really enjoy it, then it may build into
the movie of the summer. But as it is, I
just see it as a kind of a blockbuster without
(24:56):
a capital B.
Speaker 1 (24:57):
What about the casting? What about this act? I mean,
he seems a very nice guy, but he's somehow diminished.
He's he looks like tiny in the roll.
Speaker 4 (25:07):
To my eye, I'm optimistic about him. I saw him
in a brief role in Twisters, the movie from a
couple of years ago, yes, a year or so ago,
and I thought, wow, he's got a little some screen presence.
So the early buzz is that he does pull it
off well. But like you said, some of this dialogue
is not helping her. It's just not what's super Listen,
(25:28):
you don't want to say Superman has to be exactly
Christopher Reeve.
Speaker 7 (25:31):
Every time.
Speaker 4 (25:31):
You do have to have some wiggle room, some creative license.
Speaker 7 (25:35):
A new Superman for a new era.
Speaker 4 (25:37):
But again, there are certain things that need to be similar,
and I don't see that yet. So I thought that
Henry Cavill did a fine job, didn't I agree. I
don't think he reinvented the character. I think he kept
it straight in in a way. But also that the
movies didn't even know what to do with him. He
was to write a soup a boy scout hero in
twenty twenty five or whatever. That whenever those movies are
(25:58):
hard is complicated. Hollywood is very cynical it's very edgy,
it's very dark, so even Superman's suit was more of
a darker hue. I just think they were just kind
of flummoxed by him.
Speaker 1 (26:10):
But Zack Schneider at least knew to hip a hat
to the savior part of the persona. And Henry Cavill
was so perfect looking that he did look like some
alien from another at least we hoped he was an alien.
We hope that out more of those guys running around.
But he was so perfect, you know that there was
(26:30):
something alien about him every time he walked onto the screen.
And though he was a bit, he had more reserve
I think than Christopher Reeve, who had much more personality.
Speaker 4 (26:41):
Yeah, but even the Heartland scenes in Man of Steel
really registered. I have to say, I am not the
person who cries at movies.
Speaker 7 (26:48):
I wish I was that person.
Speaker 4 (26:50):
I kind of I'm mad at myself. But when Kevin
Costner said something I can to like, I am your father.
Oh you know, he was kind of looking I got
a loup in my throat. That was a beautiful little scene,
a moment that I really struck to.
Speaker 2 (27:02):
The care mention it.
Speaker 1 (27:04):
Yeah, great moment. No, I think it's a fine movie.
I don't know why you had to reinvent it again
to tell you the truth. And you know, if I
were at DC, I would have kept Cavil for a
few more years.
Speaker 2 (27:14):
Until the aged out of the world.
Speaker 1 (27:15):
But Hollywood loves to reboot and remake, so we'll see
what happens with it. Christian Toto, thank you as always
for being here, and you can find all of Christian's
reviews and you should check them out at hollywoodintoto dot com.
Speaker 2 (27:29):
Christian will check in back with you soon, looking forward
to it. Thank you, my friend. Okay, here's the hole.
I said this about snow White earlier in the year.
Speaker 1 (27:38):
Why revive a character or story that you don't really like,
or worse, one that you aren't going to really be
true to nor meet the audience expectations for. I mean,
if you can't get behind truth justice in the American way,
then find another superhero.
Speaker 2 (27:54):
It'll blow up on the big screen. Here's the truth.
Speaker 1 (27:57):
Every director has a message there trying to convey. That's
hardly a newsflash. It's usually a message that guides their vision.
There's nothing wrong with that, but I question why James
Gunn feels the need to browbeat the audience with his
personal politics and advertise that this is what the movie
is for and screw off if you don't like it.
(28:20):
We'll see if audiences respond in kind. My guess is
this will be one of the biggest films of the summer,
but it could have been even bigger had they left
politics out of it. And a note to DC Studios,
if you're going to use the line look up as
your pitch for your new Superman film, it's probably a
good idea not to tear the beloved character or the
(28:40):
audience down. Superman wouldn't like that. I hope you'll come
back to a Royo Grande soon. Why live a dry,
constricted life when if you fill it with good things,
it can flow into a broad, thriving a Royo Grande.
Speaker 2 (28:54):
I'm raimingt Arroyo.
Speaker 1 (28:55):
Make sure you subscribe and like this episode. Thanks for
diving in. We'll see you next. Arroyo Grande is produced
in partnership with iHeart Podcasts and is available on the
iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.
James Gunn's New Superman is flying into cinemas, but given
the director's political comments, will it be a bird, a plane,
or a bomb at the box office. Film critic Christian
Toto joins me on this edition of The Arroyo Grande Show.
Come on, I'm rave an Arroyo. Welcome to the Arroyo
(00:30):
Grande Show. Go subscribe now and turn those notifications on.
I want you to know what's coming up and if
you'd like to like the show, I'd enjoy that. Did
you see where James Gunn's New Superman is coming to theaters.
Let me tell you why this matters. Superman is in
some way an avatar for America and the American dream.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
The question is, is.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
James Gunn Superman true to the spirit and the ideals
of the character. DC Studio and Gunn have a lot
riding on this between filming and marketing. It's estimated that
Warner Brothers spent nearly four hundred million dollars on this movie.
James Gunn has made some controversial and political comments in
(01:14):
recent days that may scare off some filmgoers. We'll get
to those comments in a second, But the origins of
Superman are fascinating. The character was created by Jerry Siegel
and Joe Schuster, two Jewish boys in Cleveland, in nineteen
thirty three. Now, initially he was going to be a
villain Superman, but the boys found inspiration in Samson and
(01:36):
Moses and changed Superman into a hero, a savior who
stood for truth, justice, and the American way. More on
that later too. Siegel's wife says Schuster used her husband
as a model while he was drawing Superman, and his
alter ego, Clark Kent, was based on silent legend Harold Lloyd.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
He wore the glasses you'll remember.
Speaker 1 (02:02):
The first comic book was a huge hit, which spawned
a host of superheroes Batman and Wonder Woman, on and on.
Speaker 2 (02:09):
But Superman is different.
Speaker 1 (02:11):
He was a hero from another world who comes to
America and embraces its values as his own. He becomes
the American ideal. Of course, On the screen, George Reeves
played Superman in the forties and fifties. The gold standard
was director Richard Donner Superman in nineteen seventy eight, starring
Christopher Reeve, who, by the way, it was Donner who
(02:34):
coached Reeves to play Clark Kent. Like Carry Grant in
Bringing up Baby, and guess who Carry Grant was imitating
in that movie, Harold Lloyd. We'll talk in a moment
about why that film is hard to beat. Then there
was Superman Returns in two thousand and six with Brandon Ruth.
Of course, Henry Cavill led Zack Schneider's Man of Steel
(02:57):
in twenty thirteen. That film was well received and restored
Superman as the savior figure, which brings us to the
James Gunn Superman movie, who is not quite a savior
and may also not quite be your granddad Superman.
Speaker 2 (03:12):
My Superman is not indestructible. We see him bleed immediately.
Speaker 3 (03:17):
At times, I've thought he's too strong. You don't want
him to be able to be able to punch a
planet in half, or, for that matter, go around a
planet a billion times and make time go backwards. You know,
I wanted a Superman who was a little bit more
down to earth.
Speaker 1 (03:33):
I've got to bring a professional in on this before
I tell you what I think of this reboot. Joining
me now, Christian Toto, film critic and host of Hollywood
In Toto.
Speaker 2 (03:42):
Christian, thank you for being here.
Speaker 1 (03:43):
We're going to get to guns, really political comments in
a moment, But what do you make of that creative
choice that the hero is kind of a JV Superman.
He can be beat up, he can bleed, and apparently
does so regularly.
Speaker 4 (03:57):
Yeah, it seems like it's antithical to what Superman Man is. Listen,
he is a complicated figure. And I think that's why
that nineteen seventy eight version was and remain so magical,
because they seem to get almost everything right. A little
bit of humor, some romance, the boy scout nature of Superman,
and yet at the same time he seemed real and
one of us, And it's just it's a miracle of filmmaking.
(04:20):
I watched there recently and I was just stunned at
how well it has aged. Of course, Christopher Reeve is
absolutely the gold standard. Yeah, impossible to kind of recreate
what he brought to the character. But listen, you know,
different directors, different writers interpret characters in different ways, but
you always hope that there's the essence of that figure remaining.
(04:40):
We'll have to wait and see until it opens this week,
but it's certainly certainly room to question where what kind
of Superman will be seeing.
Speaker 1 (04:49):
Yeah, this doesn't seem to be Dick Donner's vision. You
know at play, did Mario Puzo write that script or I.
Speaker 4 (04:56):
Believe so, I think he had had any Yeah, I
he didn't directly write it. I think he co wrote it.
Or yeah, he definitely was involved in that creative process.
Speaker 2 (05:01):
Yeah, it had heft.
Speaker 1 (05:02):
I mean that Superman I like you, I watched it
recently and you forget so much what we saw to children,
and so when you go back to it, you're like, wow,
I mean it not only has heft and gravitas, but
you're right, it has a you know, there's a slapstick
quality to some of the play there.
Speaker 2 (05:18):
Christopher Reeves is incredible in the Rule.
Speaker 1 (05:20):
But Variety has this headline about the new James Gunn Superman.
It says James Gunn says Superman is about an immigrant
that came from other places and how we've lost the
value of human kindness.
Speaker 2 (05:35):
Yes, it's about politics.
Speaker 1 (05:38):
Here's the quote, Christian Superman is the story of America
in the sense that it follows an immigrant that came
from other places and populated the country. But for me,
it is mostly a story that says basic human kindness
is of value. And is something we've lost. And obviously
there will be jerks out there who are just not
(06:00):
kind and will take it as offensive just because it's
about kindness.
Speaker 2 (06:05):
But screw them. End quote.
Speaker 5 (06:08):
You said, it's an immigrant story, it's a political movie.
Speaker 2 (06:10):
Maga today is going nuts.
Speaker 6 (06:12):
What do you have to say to Maga?
Speaker 5 (06:14):
I have anything.
Speaker 6 (06:15):
I think the movie's for everybody. I don't have anything
to say to anybody, like I'm not here to judge people,
you know, you know. I think this is a movie
about kindness, and I think that's something everyone can relate to.
Speaker 1 (06:27):
Let's start with, is it really about kindness, Christian or
is that kind of a veil for the political opinions
that Gun holds.
Speaker 4 (06:35):
I read those quotes and I just my job was
a gape. Here we are days before this movie opens.
There is so much writing on this, not just for
the summer, not just for Hollywood, for the whole DC
Comics universe, a for Gun himself, who's been put in
charge of this. And then to make these clumsiest sides
to what's going on in the country right now, and
(06:56):
assuming that if you're anti illegal immigration, you're not kind.
It's just such a leap and such an unnecessary thing
for him to say. You know, I'm always amazed that
at the actors and the directors when they they talk
to the press, there's one mission. It is to sell
your product. To sell, you're not trying to do anything else.
You're not trying to be creative. It's you're talking to
(07:18):
Variety or some other publication because you want to get
fannies in the seats and to bring up a divisive issue,
to speak in a way that is unkind and clumsy.
I'm just I'm amazed he did it.
Speaker 7 (07:32):
Amazed he did it so soon.
Speaker 4 (07:33):
But I'm starting to get a theory, and some other
people have said this that maybe the finished product isn't
very good and he's.
Speaker 7 (07:39):
Been me doing pre damage control.
Speaker 2 (07:41):
I don't know.
Speaker 7 (07:42):
It's just shocking.
Speaker 1 (07:44):
Yeah, yeah, Well it's hard to preach kindness while you're
telling people to screw off.
Speaker 2 (07:49):
I mean, that's it. That's a tough balance.
Speaker 1 (07:51):
You know, you don't do that to an audience. But
tell me, what's the danger of framing this the entire
movie and there's hundreds of millions of dollars riding this
movie for Warner Brothers and DC Studios. What's the danger
of framing this as a commentary on immigration at this moment.
I mean, why politicize this movie at all?
Speaker 4 (08:11):
On the serface, I just don't know. You know, it
doesn't make any sense.
Speaker 7 (08:15):
Listen.
Speaker 4 (08:16):
You could go into the movie and bring your own
thoughts and feelings into it and kind of say, you know,
the way this.
Speaker 7 (08:21):
Character works and the way he's a stranger.
Speaker 4 (08:24):
I could see into that, and that's you know, you
give the audience that room while you're telling a great
story and while you're entertaining them, and then they can
bring any sort of biases or any sort of feelings
into it. Or maybe they think this way and they
watch the film and they emerge with a different perspective.
That's great and healthy. It's why movies are so magical.
But to get into this argument, to get into this
debate at this point in the culture, at a time
(08:46):
where audiences are exhausted by lectures and celebrities who just
can't stop wagging their fingers at us, it makes absolutely
no sense.
Speaker 2 (08:56):
Listen.
Speaker 4 (08:56):
If this was an any film and he's trying to
appeal to a base, god less, a wonderful way to
kind of stoke some interest and some passion into your movie.
But we're looking at a culture that is exhausted by woke,
that is exhausted by politics, that just chose a president
who did kind of basically it was a finger into
the eye of Hollywood in general. And to say this now,
I just it's the dumbest thing, because we have so
(09:19):
many ways to entertain ourselves and I could stay home,
I could watch the original Superman. I don't have to
go to the theater. Yeah, maybe many will do just that.
Speaker 2 (09:27):
Christian.
Speaker 1 (09:28):
You know, I was thinking the last lead wearing red,
white and blue, that may lose as much money as
this is snow White.
Speaker 2 (09:35):
I mean, this is not this is good.
Speaker 1 (09:37):
You think after Snow White and Indiana Jones, which only
had a you know, it had kind of a feminist undercurrent,
but it was very subtle, but the audience punished them
for that. So it's clear the audience doesn't want politics,
at least not partisan politics, to lead in any of
these beloved franchises. And yet James Gunn has decided he's
(09:57):
going down that path with Superman, or at least that's
how it sounds.
Speaker 2 (10:01):
Yeah, no, I agree.
Speaker 4 (10:01):
You know, the Rachel Zegler situation I really thought was
going to be the final wake up call. Yeah, don't
insult the ip. Don't insult your audience. Stay away from that.
Speaker 2 (10:12):
Listen.
Speaker 4 (10:12):
These are major movies with massive budgets. You talked about.
The marketing alone is just impressive, and the scope and
you take that money and you have to get your
return on investment.
Speaker 7 (10:24):
Listen.
Speaker 4 (10:24):
We just saw two movies that were very good and
very popular, the New Mission Impossible and also f One
that are doing great at the box office, but their
budgets are so big they probably won't be profitable. And
now a long come Superman, which needs to get all
that money to get it, you know, to get back
in the black, and then he does this. I mean,
I listen, I've been covering this industry for decades and
(10:46):
I'm just stunned.
Speaker 2 (10:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:47):
Well, these budgets are gargante one and it seems that's
the only thing studios want to put any money in.
Speaker 2 (10:52):
And we have to admit.
Speaker 1 (10:53):
Look, propaganda was in the DNA of Superman Christian from
the start. He was pro American propaganda. He literally fights
World War two in the early comic books. I mean,
every film has a theme, but why state it, why
give voice to it? Why not let people enjoy the ride,
and if the story is artful enough, they'll get your message.
Speaker 4 (11:14):
Yeah, I agree. I mean great art is that.
Speaker 5 (11:16):
You know.
Speaker 4 (11:17):
I remember when Dead Men Walking came out probably twenty
years ago, and it was so well crafted. No matter
where you stood on the death penalty, you could get
nourishment from that movie. You can kind of point to
it and say that's why I believe X. And great
art does that, and you don't need these kind of lectures.
And again that you know, James Gunn is a comic
book geek and God, God bless him for that, Like
(11:38):
he loves this genre and that's a good thing. And
the fact that he doesn't realize that these comments are
gonna ricochet around social media and YouTube in the days
and weeks.
Speaker 7 (11:47):
Following his movie.
Speaker 4 (11:48):
He must know that. He must realize, so, which again
brings me to the what else is he thinking?
Speaker 7 (11:54):
And I don't know the answer to that.
Speaker 4 (11:55):
I'd have to chat with him over a beer. Yeah,
but I almost think there's something else in play. The
role out to this movie has been very positive, very uplifting,
very apolitical, and then now bang, you get this.
Speaker 1 (12:07):
In the eleventh hour, they come in and kind of
you know, spoil all of that great marketing. Actually, Superman,
by the way, just for the record, Christian Superman is
a refugee, not an immigrant. But let's get to what
actor David Cornswitt, he is the new Superman. This is
what he had to say about his alter ego, who originally,
(12:28):
as I mentioned earlier, stood for truth, justice in the
American way.
Speaker 5 (12:34):
When he doesn't have to be Superman, when he doesn't
have to be this calm, reassuring presence to the public,
when he doesn't have to symbolize safety and security and
truth and justice and all those good things, he still
feels those values.
Speaker 4 (12:52):
Just can't say it, christian't say it?
Speaker 1 (12:55):
Why the abandonment of the core of this character the
American way? What's so dirty about that?
Speaker 2 (13:00):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (13:00):
I don't know, And you know, I don't think that
saying it is going to chase anyone away, But going
out of your way not to say it definitely leaves
a bad taste in your mouth. I think it just does.
And can't we have an American Hero? It's okay, you know,
if you live in Italy, if you live in Spain,
other countries, you could appreciate an American hero. Who fights
for justice. That's why is that repulsive?
Speaker 2 (13:22):
It's not.
Speaker 4 (13:23):
They could say, Okay, this is an American character who
happens to be very entertaining who I've followed for years,
and that's okay. If there was a Spain based hero
who was very loyalistic to his country and we loved
him for years, and I wouldn't be upset about that
and go see that movie.
Speaker 1 (13:38):
Well, you saw some of those maneuvering and narrative building
during the last Captain America relaunch, remember, and Gun's kind
of saying the same thing. He says Superman is quote
a hero for the world, and he's got the marketing
to back it up.
Speaker 2 (13:52):
And my question is, why is he wearing red, white,
and blue? Why aren't you wear Nato Perrywinkle blue? Is
your costume the blue helmet?
Speaker 1 (14:00):
Yeah?
Speaker 7 (14:00):
No, it's a great it's a.
Speaker 4 (14:02):
Great point, and it's so fascinating. But you know, this
is the culture of Hollywood where that's what you're taught
to think, that's what you're told to say, that's what
you hear NonStop. I mean, I don't think James Gunn
has probably heard a powerful oppositional point of view on
illegal immigration, He has no idea.
Speaker 7 (14:22):
He thinks it's just mean. Instead of saying, well.
Speaker 4 (14:25):
Maybe it's kind to the people who are here, or
maybe it avoids sex trafficking and child trafficking on the border,
or maybe it avoids the debts of illegal immigrants who
are killing people. That's kindness too, But he says, screw them,
just blunting.
Speaker 1 (14:40):
Well, I mean, if anybody's been down to the border
as I have, and you see these young girls who
have been trafficked, and that's it. They pay to be trafficked, essentially,
and then when they get here they are used.
Speaker 2 (14:51):
In the most horrible ways.
Speaker 1 (14:53):
I mean, there's nothing kind about that, nothing kind about that.
And we as a govern we as a people, should
should do all we can to stop that illegal trafficking
and find a way that's orderly for people who want
to come here. But we must have an orderly path,
and you can't just crash in or pay your way
(15:13):
into the country. It ends badly, and I think everybody's
just got to look at the facts and say, this
is a terrible situation. But whatever it is, it ain't kind.
And while we're on this, I also read where there's
some foreign countries fictional foreign countries in the Superman movie,
and a smaller country wants to blow up another that
(15:35):
apparently is not well armed, which some say in some
of the articles I've read and some people I've spoken to,
they say it's a doppelganger for Israel. Now, Gun tried
to swap that idea away. But how ironic is it
Christian that the creators of Superman were two Jewish boys
who often had him confronting Hitler himself in the early comics.
(15:58):
And now you might have a commentary on Israel in
the middle of this movie.
Speaker 4 (16:03):
Yeah, I mean, Gun has denied it, but then many
people will read its exactly that. Yeah, listen, I've been
covering Hollywood for the last two plus years after the
attacks of October seventh. Then to say that the industry
in general has been disappointing, cold, dismissive, ignoring the hostages.
I could go on and on about how this industry
has not risen the occasion, with very few exceptions like
(16:26):
John Andrassic and Patricia Heaton, Deborah Messing. It's been shocking
and just to see this to have a storyline that
even comes close to echoing those real world situations. And
then think how it could be interpreted.
Speaker 7 (16:39):
Just listen, we just.
Speaker 4 (16:41):
Saw a Top Gun Maverick and that kept the bad
guys so to speak, so generic, yeah, and so vague
that anyone could buy into the story. But this seems
much more specific.
Speaker 7 (16:51):
And again he can deny it.
Speaker 4 (16:54):
Who knows what he was thinking, and maybe he wants
us to believe his denial.
Speaker 2 (16:58):
M h. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:59):
There's some back forth between Lois Line and Superman about
whether he should intervene or he got involved, and whether
he should get more involved.
Speaker 2 (17:07):
There's this long debate in the middle of the movie.
Speaker 1 (17:11):
I just I do wonder and we'll get to some
of the early reviews in a moment.
Speaker 2 (17:15):
But tell me what's working.
Speaker 1 (17:17):
You know, you cover these movies day in and day
out as they're released. Why did F one work? Why
is that striking a chord? And again, as you mentioned,
they haven't they still haven't reached profitability yet.
Speaker 2 (17:29):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (17:29):
Well, I mean it works because it's a very engaging,
fun movie. It actually is from the director of Top
Gun Maverick, and it has a little bit of that
DNA in the movie, an older person trying to recapture
his glory. Just the filmmaking between the slick visuals and
the heart stamping action. It just has that same sense
of exhilaration of an old school blockbuster, the kind that's
(17:51):
not divisive that you're rooting for the hero. There's a
generational divide. Brad pitt character is competing against a much
younger driver, much like in Havegun Maverick, the Miles Teller
character is competing with our hero. So there's lots of
similarities there. But it's just a good time at the movies.
It is not as good as Top Gun Maverick. It
doesn't have the complexity, but it's engaging. And Brad Pitt
(18:14):
is playing a movie star. Yeah, he's a handsome guy.
He's leaning into his charisma and those things matter too.
Some directors just lean into that. You know, Quentin Tarantino
when he made Once Upon a Time in Hollywood made
Brad Pitt look like Brad Pitt. I know that sounds easier,
said that sounds like an easy thing to do. But
you know, if you just kind of say, hey, these
(18:34):
are beautiful people, we're gonna enjoy them on screen, this
is escapism and that's what that's all about.
Speaker 7 (18:40):
So it's making a lot of money.
Speaker 4 (18:41):
But again, the budget's so big, it's going to be
complicated whether it can make a profit.
Speaker 2 (18:45):
It's amazing.
Speaker 1 (18:46):
I mean, when you're dealing with four hundred million dollar budgets, well,
how do you make this money back? I mean, it's
in this marketplace where people just aren't going to the theaters
as they once were, which I frankly I mourn the
movie going experience.
Speaker 2 (19:01):
We went to see F one. Theater was half empty. Christian.
Speaker 1 (19:04):
You know, this is a week weeks ago when the
movie opened, and I was just kind of it takes
away from the enjoyment.
Speaker 2 (19:11):
Because you're not sharing it with as many people.
Speaker 4 (19:13):
I agree, it's one of the great things about seeing
it in a theater if it's a comedy, if it's
a horror movie, the chills around you, that laughs around you,
the sense of excitement.
Speaker 7 (19:22):
You just can't do that at home. You get the
big screen.
Speaker 4 (19:26):
I know it's comfortable.
Speaker 7 (19:26):
I have my own big.
Speaker 4 (19:27):
Screen, but it's not like the theater that communal experience
is amazing.
Speaker 1 (19:31):
Well, I think it's too comfortable. You know, they've tried
to turn it into your home basement, you know, with
the recliner chairs and the lazy boy. I don't like
all that sit up straight. You don't have to eat
a gallon of coke and popcorn. Just sit and watch
the movie and sit up straight and enjoy yourselves and
act like human beings.
Speaker 2 (19:48):
I've not seen.
Speaker 1 (19:49):
This movie yet, Christian but the Superman Movie, but I've
read some of the early reviews. The Daily Beast broke
the embargo and released their review, then they took it down.
It reads this way, the terrible New Superman Movie is
the final nail in the grave of the superhero genre.
It claims that guns film is quote a Saturday Morning cartoon,
(20:15):
overstuffed and Helter Skelter come to life, and it's jammed
with new characters Mister Terrific and Supergirl and Maxwell Lord,
on and on. Basically, they're introducing its drive bys of
the entire New DC universe.
Speaker 2 (20:29):
Your thoughts, Yeah, you know.
Speaker 4 (20:31):
I haven't been able to screen the movie. Actually, I'm
based in Denver, Colorado. They're not screening for critics here,
which is very weird. We get access to almost no
no answer, but we get access to almost every new movie.
But the trailers suggest that the clips the lack of
gravitas the Quippi humor. Listen, I think you introduced the
super Dog crypto maybe in the third or fourth sequel,
(20:54):
not out of the gate, and it looks like a
cgi dog to boot, which is like not cool. So listen,
I don't want to pre judge the movie, but the
snippets don't inspire me. Even the back and forth between
Lois Lane here again. You and I just saw the
original that those scenes were just poetic. They had to
strength to them. There was chemistry between the leads.
Speaker 7 (21:16):
It was sweet.
Speaker 4 (21:17):
It had so much to it in these scenes. The
snippets we've seen so far, it just seemed like a
snippet from a TV show. It just seems as simple
and as basic as that, and Superman shouldn't be basic.
I'm sorry, He's He's something different.
Speaker 1 (21:31):
No, the original Superman is. You're right, it's so complex.
You've got the great.
Speaker 2 (21:39):
Hagman playing Alex Luthor.
Speaker 1 (21:42):
You've got Margot Kidder and Christopher Reeves who really do
at moments evoke those old slapstick romantic comedies from the
twenties and thirties. I mean, there's a lot happening in
that movie, and Donnerd does such a good job of
balancing it all the fantastical with Marlon Brando on the
other Planet, and I mean, it's an incredible movie. And
(22:03):
so with all of that to live up to, you
do wonder why he decided to go down this path.
And it looks like I will tell you. I spoke
to an executive at Warner Brothers who said it's silly
and there are way too many characters. That was his
review of the movie. Now again, I haven't seen it,
That's what he said. I have to say. And I
(22:23):
know people love dogs. You mentioned this a moment ago.
I know people love dogs, but why does Superman's new dog,
Crypto so annoy me?
Speaker 2 (22:33):
Crypto?
Speaker 5 (22:36):
What the hey, dude, I thought you destroyed the whole
Superman Robots.
Speaker 2 (22:40):
I thought I told you to keep an eye on him.
Speaker 7 (22:41):
We feed the K ninety, but he is unruly.
Speaker 2 (22:45):
Superman Robots.
Speaker 1 (22:46):
But maybe it's Superman's dialogue and not the dog that
annoys me. Dude, it just doesn't feel right.
Speaker 7 (22:52):
Chrishnan, Yeah, it's funny.
Speaker 4 (22:53):
When I first saw the trailer for the film, I thought,
but Superman has the same as hairstyle as my teenage son.
I'm like, you know, I mean, why do you want
to kind of evoke this very moment. Superman is bigger
than that. You can watch the original movie and I
know it's in the nineteen seventies and you'll see the
dated references, but it doesn't feel like a period piece.
Speaker 7 (23:12):
It just feels like Superman. And I don't know.
Speaker 4 (23:15):
Again, these are little things and we nitpicked that. And
at the end of the day, if I sit in
my seat and I'm wildly entertained, I'm rooting for that.
I ultimately want that to happen for us all to
be surprised. But it's also hard not to read the
tea leaves.
Speaker 1 (23:28):
Yeah, Christian, this is like adding bat Might, you know,
as a sidekick to Batman. Batmight was kind of this
little alien fan of Batman. We don't know quite what
it was, but it showed up in some of the
animated iterations of Batman in the comic books. But it's
a side character. You don't want to see that front
and center when you're doing a reboot.
Speaker 7 (23:47):
Yeah, I'm a dog person.
Speaker 4 (23:50):
I'm your charget audience, and I'm like, wait, stop, no,
don't need it.
Speaker 2 (23:54):
That's not okay. I'm glad I'm not alone.
Speaker 1 (23:55):
Thank you for sympathizing would be on this. I know
my wife will hate me for saying them. Not about
it though, but it is annoying. What's your final gut
on this, Christian? I mean, James Gunn Superman. There's a
lot riding on this. How do you think it's going
to impact the DC Universe reboot overall?
Speaker 4 (24:13):
I think it's almost too big to fail. I think
they have to push forward to a degree. I think
there's such curiosity about the film that it'll do at
least well in the generic terms. I just don't think
it'll be huge unless it has that really solid word
of mouth. Remember the mouth is still the magic. Obviously,
just go on social media, spread it.
Speaker 7 (24:33):
Far and wide.
Speaker 4 (24:34):
But you know, we've seen movies like Tapka, Maverick, and
even Sinners, which is a very well constructed movie, and
people told their friends this is terrific, this is an
A plus vampire movie, and they came. So I think
if people are curious, they'll check it out, and then
if they really enjoy it, then it may build into
the movie of the summer. But as it is, I
just see it as a kind of a blockbuster without
(24:56):
a capital B.
Speaker 1 (24:57):
What about the casting? What about this act? I mean,
he seems a very nice guy, but he's somehow diminished.
He's he looks like tiny in the roll.
Speaker 4 (25:07):
To my eye, I'm optimistic about him. I saw him
in a brief role in Twisters, the movie from a
couple of years ago, yes, a year or so ago,
and I thought, wow, he's got a little some screen presence.
So the early buzz is that he does pull it
off well. But like you said, some of this dialogue
is not helping her. It's just not what's super Listen,
(25:28):
you don't want to say Superman has to be exactly
Christopher Reeve.
Speaker 7 (25:31):
Every time.
Speaker 4 (25:31):
You do have to have some wiggle room, some creative license.
Speaker 7 (25:35):
A new Superman for a new era.
Speaker 4 (25:37):
But again, there are certain things that need to be similar,
and I don't see that yet. So I thought that
Henry Cavill did a fine job, didn't I agree. I
don't think he reinvented the character. I think he kept
it straight in in a way. But also that the
movies didn't even know what to do with him. He
was to write a soup a boy scout hero in
twenty twenty five or whatever. That whenever those movies are
(25:58):
hard is complicated. Hollywood is very cynical it's very edgy,
it's very dark, so even Superman's suit was more of
a darker hue. I just think they were just kind
of flummoxed by him.
Speaker 1 (26:10):
But Zack Schneider at least knew to hip a hat
to the savior part of the persona. And Henry Cavill
was so perfect looking that he did look like some
alien from another at least we hoped he was an alien.
We hope that out more of those guys running around.
But he was so perfect, you know that there was
(26:30):
something alien about him every time he walked onto the screen.
And though he was a bit, he had more reserve
I think than Christopher Reeve, who had much more personality.
Speaker 4 (26:41):
Yeah, but even the Heartland scenes in Man of Steel
really registered. I have to say, I am not the
person who cries at movies.
Speaker 7 (26:48):
I wish I was that person.
Speaker 4 (26:50):
I kind of I'm mad at myself. But when Kevin
Costner said something I can to like, I am your father.
Oh you know, he was kind of looking I got
a loup in my throat. That was a beautiful little scene,
a moment that I really struck to.
Speaker 2 (27:02):
The care mention it.
Speaker 1 (27:04):
Yeah, great moment. No, I think it's a fine movie.
I don't know why you had to reinvent it again
to tell you the truth. And you know, if I
were at DC, I would have kept Cavil for a
few more years.
Speaker 2 (27:14):
Until the aged out of the world.
Speaker 1 (27:15):
But Hollywood loves to reboot and remake, so we'll see
what happens with it. Christian Toto, thank you as always
for being here, and you can find all of Christian's
reviews and you should check them out at hollywoodintoto dot com.
Speaker 2 (27:29):
Christian will check in back with you soon, looking forward
to it. Thank you, my friend. Okay, here's the hole.
I said this about snow White earlier in the year.
Speaker 1 (27:38):
Why revive a character or story that you don't really like,
or worse, one that you aren't going to really be
true to nor meet the audience expectations for. I mean,
if you can't get behind truth justice in the American way,
then find another superhero.
Speaker 2 (27:54):
It'll blow up on the big screen. Here's the truth.
Speaker 1 (27:57):
Every director has a message there trying to convey. That's
hardly a newsflash. It's usually a message that guides their vision.
There's nothing wrong with that, but I question why James
Gunn feels the need to browbeat the audience with his
personal politics and advertise that this is what the movie
is for and screw off if you don't like it.
(28:20):
We'll see if audiences respond in kind. My guess is
this will be one of the biggest films of the summer,
but it could have been even bigger had they left
politics out of it. And a note to DC Studios,
if you're going to use the line look up as
your pitch for your new Superman film, it's probably a
good idea not to tear the beloved character or the
(28:40):
audience down. Superman wouldn't like that. I hope you'll come
back to a Royo Grande soon. Why live a dry,
constricted life when if you fill it with good things,
it can flow into a broad, thriving a Royo Grande.
Speaker 2 (28:54):
I'm raimingt Arroyo.
Speaker 1 (28:55):
Make sure you subscribe and like this episode. Thanks for
diving in. We'll see you next. Arroyo Grande is produced
in partnership with iHeart Podcasts and is available on the
iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.
Host
Raymond Arroyo
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