April 29, 2025 • 34 mins
Hong Kong is starting to look up. The Hang Seng Index has rebounded from last year’s lows and tourists are flocking to major musical and sporting events in the city's new stadium. Even expats – many of whom left for Singapore, London and elsewhere during the pandemic – appear to be returning.
But structural challenges remain. The commercial property market is beset by record-high vacancy rates while retailers are reeling as residents find significant cost savings over the border in cities such as Shenzhen. And now we have the onset of US tariffs. What will it take for Hong Kong to recapture its reputation as Asia's vibrant, international city?
Benjamin Quinlan, CEO of Quinlan & Associates and conference ambassador at the Hong Kong Tourism Board, says the city needs to double down on mega events. He joins John Lee and Katia Dmitrieva on the Asia Centric podcast.
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
There are some green shoots in Hong Kong's economy. Last month,
the city hosted the famous rugby sevens tournament in a
brand new stadium, Art Basil, drew in strong crowds. Stocks
have also been positive, raising hopes of a boost in
the IPO market, but can.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
The city keep up its strong momentum. By and large,
inbound tourism numbers are still below pre pandemic levels. Meanwhile,
local residents continue to spend their hard earned cash over
the border in shenzhenne where items are usually thirty percent cheaper.
Office vacancy's continued to rize and they're now at seventeen percent,
(00:38):
and that's a record high. You're listening to Asia Centric
from Bloomberg Intelligence.
Speaker 1 (00:45):
I'm John Lee in Hong Kong, and I'm kat Teddimir
Trieva also in Hong Kong. Here to discuss all matters
of Hong Kong is Benjamin Quinlan. He's the CEO of
Quinlan and Associates. It's a strategy consulting firm specializing in
the financial sector. He's also a conference ambassador for the
Hong Kong Tourism Board, but he's also known for being
(01:06):
a stand up comedian here in the city. Welcome to
Asia Centric.
Speaker 3 (01:11):
Thank you very much, Katia and John, very good to
be here.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
We just had the busiest Art Basil since twenty nineteen.
Now that's in terms of foot traffic. Katya mentioned that
we had quite a few other events, including the Hong
Kong Sevens. Can Hong Kong sustain this energy throughout the
rest of this year?
Speaker 3 (01:27):
March madness is what we just saw, and March is
always a great month for Hong Kong because of the
confluence of these events. As you say, Art Basil, the Sevens,
Art Central Look. I think we're coming out of a
bit of a lull period and it's great to see
the numbers back. I mean the first thing I observed
because I just flew into Hong Kong from the Middle East,
(01:49):
it was packed and the amounts of people who were
returning to Hong Kong, particularly expats that used to live
here coming back four to sevens, feeling that nostalgia and
knowing what Hong Kong does well, and I think it
does the sevens and that scene extremely well. I do
think it's a sustainable thing, but we need to work
out what else comes in the roster of calendar and
(02:09):
events for the remainder of the year, and how do
we continue replicating that year after year. So Hong Kong
really stands out is providing some very unique experience visa
v other Asian cities.
Speaker 1 (02:20):
So what does that look like? You know, because you're
someone who is involved at both the city level with
various chambers of commerce to try to promote the city,
and you have a lot of ideas of how Hong
Kong can do this. Is it kind of an event's
driven approach? Is it something else?
Speaker 3 (02:35):
I think the mega events approach is the correct direction.
So I think John, you were mentioning the idea of
the integration with China in particular, a lot of Hong
Kong people going over the border and spending their money,
and I think with the emphasis on GBA now visa
free travel with Hong Kong residents into Shanchin and Guangzhou,
you are seeing a lot of Hong Kong people take
(02:56):
advantage of that price arbitrage and then get better discounts
in the mainland. But if you look at where Hong
Kong can compete, it can't compete on price. I think
we just need to resign ourselves to the fact that
we can't compete on price, and nor should we try
and compete on price. There's no point in importing deflation
into the market to levels that we need to match
(03:18):
Light for lake with China. Fundamentally, the experience in Hong
Kong is different, and that is what we have to
capitalize on. This is the international city of China, period.
Hong Kong knows it, China knows it, and if you
listen to China policy announcements every single time, they stress
almost time and time again, Hong Kong's importance as that
(03:39):
gateway to the rest of the world and also having
that international flavor that is so fundamentally unique. Doubling down
on that and working out how we can bring the
best international acts, the best international experiences into Hong Kong
will be critical. And when you talk about those tourist numbers,
they're not rebounding to the levels they were before. The
(04:00):
more important question is are we looking at the right metric.
Do we actually care about the number of tourists coming
into the city, or do we care about the quality
of tourists coming into the city. The reality is, if
you look at tourist numbers, these are day trips. People
that spend minimally. A lot of the flow is from
mainland China, that's not where the big spending is. And
(04:23):
I always say, if you stay for the experience, you're
naturally going to have to spend on f and b
retail and other things because you are in the city.
So the key thing is keeping boots on the ground
here and footfall here and ensuring Hong Kong people have
a reason to stay, as well as giving tourists and
visitors a reason to come and visit that they can't
(04:43):
get anywhere else, be it in China or any other
city in Asia.
Speaker 2 (04:48):
Benjamin, do you think the new stadium will be a
catalyst of drawing more crowns and more big events. Yeah?
Speaker 3 (04:54):
I think the stadium is fantastic. I was saying before.
I love the nostalgia associate with that Happy Valley Stadium.
It's so unique in the sense that it's open. You
have mountains and high rise apartments looming over the stadium,
so that topography of it and just the visual impact
of it is phenomenal. So that casts a lot of
doubt in my mind, can we replicate it? But when
(05:15):
I walked into Kayitak, my jaw fell on the ground.
It's really a phenomenal stadium. This is world class infrastructure.
It's really quite impressive, and I do think this will
be an important element in terms of driving international acts
events into the city. And if you look at where
all the biggest events in football and traffic is, it's
(05:35):
Clock and Flap, it's our Basil, it's the Sevens, it's Coldplay.
The evidence is there. So the reality is there's something
that works. It brings in the right kind of people,
it brings in the right kind of spending. It's wonderful
for Hong Kong's brand image in terms of making it
Asia's world city and reinforcing that angle. So I think
the emphasis on this is definitely the right approach in
(05:57):
terms of putting Hong Kong back on the global stage.
Into if it's branding, and how.
Speaker 1 (06:02):
Does that kind of feed into other aspects of the economy,
because you can have these make events which are fantastic
for consumption, and certainly I'm sure we'll see receipts quite
elevated from March again, especially this previous March. How does
that translate into other aspects of the economy like real estate,
for example, we still haven't really seen bottoming out of
that yet maybe the financial sector or is that completely separate.
Speaker 3 (06:27):
No, I don't think it's separate, but again it's episodic.
So the more consistent you can make this, the more
footfall in traffic there will be to spend on related industries.
So now that you have a stadium set up in
Kaitak or now that you have this new mall set
up Papa Home, for example, in chim Saw Troy, which
is the it's basically the partnership between Ali Baba Talbao
(06:49):
in a local startup called Papa Bom. This is really
interesting in terms of giving locals a reason to stay
and give tourists a reason to come. And the more
you are in the city, the more you are naturally
going to spend in the city if we are leaking
the local traffic constantly over the border. So let me
(07:09):
go back to that example. If I wanted to buy
furniture before, because this is what the more CAD is
for this new more, If I wanted to buy furniture before,
I would either do it directly online on Talboll where I.
Speaker 1 (07:20):
Would be Chinese website ry like you're getting it from China.
Speaker 3 (07:22):
Correct and there could be some issues associated with you know,
do I know the build quality, the material, the feel
of this furniture. A lot of people would want to
experience that. So what do they do. They go to
Shanzhen and they go to Shenzhen and they sample the
products and then buy there and then it's delivered to
Hong Kong. If you can give them a reason not
to go over the border and do the shopping here,
it's creating local jobs. It's also creating local infrastructure and
(07:45):
f and B that will circulate around that because the
footfall is so high. So again it's about why Hong
Kong people need to see that reason to stay and spend.
I think the challenge for Hong Kong, particularly when it
came to tourist dollars, is just the peg, right. It
obviously worked to the favor of people spending offshore because
we had a peg to the USD. The USD has
(08:06):
been extremely strong visa the other currencies over the past
twelve to eighteen months, and as a result of that,
you're purchasing power is significant. So trips to for example,
Japan became extremely on the top of the bucket list
because the yenet collapsed and the US dollar was so strong,
so it became a cheap trip. But you will start
to see a little bit of convergence and what he
would call mean reversion around these exchange rates. So there
(08:28):
will be some structural elements that will act as tailwinds
for a slight recovery of Hong Kong. But again, you
can't just rely on those macro forces. I think a
core focus on building the proposition of brand Hong Kong
is really important and that PR effort is going to
be critical to putting Hong Kong back on global stage.
Speaker 2 (08:46):
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(09:09):
If you like what you hear, don't forget to subscribe.
And Chair Benjamin, you just mentioned PR and you also
mentioned earlier that you just came back from Dubai. Yes,
what's the perception of Hong Kong outside. What was the
perception when you were there?
Speaker 1 (09:21):
Also, how has it changed in recent years If you've noticed.
Speaker 3 (09:24):
A change, well, I think Hong Kong went through a
bit of a pr battle, especially during the COVID period.
There are a lot of issues that put Hong Kong
on the map for the wrong reasons. But when people
come and visit and they see it, they realize that
the fundamental DNA of Hong Kong hasn't shifted all that much.
It is still the place it was. The memories, the feelings,
(09:46):
the experiences, they are very unique to Hong Kong. You
can't get rid of the topography here, you can't get
rid of that buzz, you know, the grungy side right
next to the tall office towers. I think all of
that DNA is are unique and it's what a lot
of people love. And I know a lot of expats that,
for example, left during COVID and now they're desperately trying
(10:07):
to come back. I think they realized I don't quite
enjoy the weather in London at fifty percent tax rate
isn't exactly the best thing. And I missed that energy
and buzz associated with Hong Kong, and particularly for an
expat lifestyle, I think people are very fortunate to have
domestic help here. It's a fundamentally different lifestyle when you're
living in Hong Kong. So there's many things that we
(10:28):
take for granted when we're here. You know, I'm local,
born and raised and I love the city. I always have.
Speaker 2 (10:33):
It will always be.
Speaker 3 (10:34):
Home for me.
Speaker 1 (10:35):
Have you always lived here?
Speaker 3 (10:36):
Uh No, So I was born and raised. I lived
here until I was twelve. Then I was shipped off
to Australia, which is where I got this bang and
posh accent of mine. And after fourteen years and then
getting my first job in Australia and then paying my
first tax bill, I went nope, and then I came
straight back. And particularly because I was in financial services,
(10:58):
this is naturally the right place to be. Australia is
a little bit remote, and I do think if you
want to work in financial services, Hong Kong is a
place to be in Asia. Otherwise it's New York and London.
Speaker 2 (11:08):
Talking about perception now, the authorities have made some comments
about improving the perception of Hong Kong. Have mentioned things like,
you know, restaurant staff should be nicer to their customers.
Speaker 1 (11:20):
Yeah, and there's some taxi drivers learning Arabic was another.
I remember a push by the city in the smoking ban.
I don't know if that's still going ahead, but there's
been all these you know, improvements.
Speaker 3 (11:32):
Right, So let's look at Japan. I'll give you an example.
I was in Japan two months ago. Japan is one
of the least tourist friendly countries in the world. No
one speaks English. Everything is very Japanese. You need to
know the lingoed language or use translation apps, and it's
very much. You come to Japan for the Japan experience.
(11:55):
You don't come to Japan for another experience. So I
don't think we need to try try and cater to
every single culture norm and so on. I think we
need to find our own identity, which we've had for
a long time. Hong Kong's identity is East meets West.
It has always been East meets West. That is what
is unique about it when I look around. So, you know,
(12:17):
I just came from the FCC, the Foreign Correspondence Club.
The FCC is one of the most instagrammed areas. It's
that architecture, it's that influence our history I think our
history is something that is very unique. It's something we
should embrace and promote. It's not something to frown upon.
I think overall, it's very clear that Hong Kong is transitioned.
(12:38):
We're very much part of China, but it doesn't mean
that our DNA is in any way different. I think
the reality is Hong Kong has developed over a very
long period of time this unique identity, which I think
it should aim to preserve because that is what a
lot of people find extremely special about the city, and
it's extremely hard to replicate that. Easy to build a stadium,
(13:01):
for example, well, I mean cost side, but it's very
hard to twenty years, sure, two week clear. I'm not
just saying it's, you know, a couple of bricks in
some cement. But the reality is the actual DNA of
this city has evolved over many, many, many decades, and
that's what people grow to love and what you'll find.
(13:24):
And this is what I really mean. Hong Kong is
one of the few places on earth that people come
to on a two year x pat contract and just stay,
and they stay for twenty to thirty plus years. It's
really hard to find that experience happened in other jurisdictions.
I really mean that. Have a look at the Hong
(13:45):
Kong national rugby team. It was this cosmopolitan mishmash of
people that call themselves Hong Kong's.
Speaker 2 (13:54):
I'm envisaging a lot of Kiwis in South Africans.
Speaker 3 (13:58):
The Brits, the Australian is the key. Again, that's what
makes Hong Kong so beautiful because it is that melting
pot of different cultures and it's something that people embrace.
It's amazing how many expats come to Hong Kong and
so rapidly call this place home. That is not something
that I see with other cities around the world.
Speaker 1 (14:19):
Okay, so let's say that you're in charge of the
next Hong Kong promotional video, you know, like a thirty
second clip that will go on TikTok, YouTube, Instagram, on TV.
What is it going to include? What is it going
to say?
Speaker 3 (14:34):
So I posted on my LinkedIn just very recently a
clip that was done in the nineties about Hong Kong,
and it was Tina Turner singing simply the Best, and
it was Hong Kong basically sticking out its chest and saying,
we have the most skyscrapers, we have the most mobile phones,
we have the most rolls royces. You know, it's all
(14:54):
the things that makes Hong Kong special, the number one
place to be. I actually did a take of all
of those usps, those unique selling points, and we're, what
thirty years on, They're all the same, They're all the
same things. So sometimes simplicity is the most beautiful and
(15:15):
authenticity is actually needed. I mean, we can have a
bunch of celebrities that a lot of people to the
rest of the world don't actually know, dancing around on
potting A Street, or.
Speaker 2 (15:24):
You're referencing the Hello Hong Kong ads. Yeah, can we
explain that one.
Speaker 1 (15:29):
I don't know if I'm familiar with that look.
Speaker 3 (15:31):
I think there was a campaign called Hello Hong Kong.
I don't think it hit very well. It was unfortunately
not It didn't reverberate with audiences both locally and globally.
But if you put that old nineteen ninety five video up,
it will literally evoke an emotional response. And sometimes it's
the simplicity of what Hong Kong is and showing it
(15:53):
really showed that melting pot cultural element. This is a
fun city and I think it's about bringing back that fun,
authentic element. It really is, and that's what people love
this town for.
Speaker 2 (16:06):
Ben when you refer to Hong Kong as Asia's world city,
but Hong Kong is also positioning itself as part of
the Greater Bay Area or the GBA, so it's becoming
more integrated with mainland China. English has spoken less in
Hong Kong than in purious periods. Do you see these
(16:27):
aims as being mutually exclusive or do you think they
can co exist?
Speaker 3 (16:33):
So it's really interesting because Hong Kong has been part
of China again now for what twenty eight years or
twenty seven years, it's not new. The GBA story in
principle that has a point. I think Hong Kong has
served as a very long time as the conduit between
China and the rest of the world. But I guess
(16:54):
GBA is much more about integration and it seems to
lean more on the one country side, whereas if you
look at Hong Kong's historic value proposition, it's been about
connectivity and more on the two systems side. So I
think there's an emphasis that each of them has a point,
(17:15):
But I don't necessarily think they sit so cleanly side
by side, because there is a bit of a juxtaposition
in terms of where is the emphasis of Hong Kong going.
And I do get the GBA story, you know, one
hundred plus million people, the size of the economy. But
then I look at the rest of the world. You know,
Hong Kong's always been a connectivity to China, period, not GBA,
(17:35):
the whole of China, and it's been the connector with
the whole rest of the world. I don't think doubling
down on a smaller part of an economic agenda or
a more specific one creates necessarily a value proposition over
and above where Hong Kong stood. And the challenge here is,
I guess when you talk about something like GBA, it's
(17:56):
not quite the same as like San Francisco Bay Area.
We still have different currencies, different regulations, different laws, different languages,
different languages. I guess you know. So that's the reality.
You can harmonize parts of it, but to what extent
will it be fully fully integrated? And I think Hong
Kong's unique source is really being different, not the same.
(18:22):
And I stress this before. When you pay close attention
to China and the way that they discuss the role
of Hong Kong. They are very well aware that Hong
Kong is that gateway to the rest of the world
for China. It is China's international city, and I hear
(18:42):
it time and time again, and I think the embrace
of that is really what makes this place special. That
is what has always made this place special, and I
think the emphasis on that is needed to reinvigorate exactly
you know why Hong Kong has always been the amazing
place it is.
Speaker 1 (19:00):
How do you think officials should address some of the
overhang associated with China? And I mean in the sense of,
you know, the security issues there were of large scale protests,
Hong Kong locked down for longer and more harshly than
other parts of the world. But also you're seeing even
now President Trump when he adds tariffs on China, he
(19:22):
also includes Hong Kong into that. And of course Hong
Kong officials can come back and say hold on a second,
like different jurisdictions. But how should Hong Kong officials kind
of address those issues.
Speaker 3 (19:34):
It's an interesting question. I am of the view that
sometimes responding staunchly to any criticism doesn't help, you know,
It's always the thing that I've always said to people,
you can't get bullied. If you don't respond to a bully,
they'll get bored. And I always think Hong Kong should
just focus on what it does best. It should just
(19:56):
do things right, keep focusing on showing, as opposed to
responding that it is a global city. I think, you know,
the Sevens's case in point, there's no discussion to be had.
Just look so the evidence is there and the narratives
and getting in these debates around you know, we refute
this position, yep, I get it. I think there's a
(20:18):
lot of political rhetoric going around now that's extremely unhealthy.
The world is very very much, in my view, in
a nineteen thirties geopolitical landscape, and we know that decade
didn't end very well. So I think Hong Kong should
just focus on what it does best. And even if
you look at somewhere like Singapore, parts of the Middle East,
(20:38):
you know, they focus resolutely on that. And there's maybe
some questions around, oh there's a human rights issue here,
or you know, there's capital punishment in this part of
the world. They just get on with it and it's
not about sitting there and defending everything all the time.
It's just about saying, you come to Singapore for the
great things that we have, for example. And I think
(20:59):
that's played to the favor of Singapore because it's positive
optics in pr really dominating all the negative and spending
giving airtime to things that I think don't necessarily deserve it.
Speaker 1 (21:10):
Oh so you mean like Singapore has similar issues, but
they're able to somehow communicate otherwise with the world.
Speaker 3 (21:18):
Yeah, I think so. I mean if you look at
the political establishment in Singapore, if you look at the
laws in Singapore. I mean, every jurisdiction may have some
form of criticism, but I don't think Singapore dwells on this.
I think Singapore is very clear about what they're strong at,
what value they bring to the world, and they focus
on that. You know, it's about that positive messaging, and
(21:39):
that's really important because otherwise, the more airtime that you
give to the negativity, the more it gets attention, and
the more that weighs on people's minds in terms of perception,
because sometimes perception, well not sometimes oftentimes perception can lead
to reality. And that's the unfortunate part, because I think
there is quite a divide between the perception of home
(22:00):
and the reality on the ground.
Speaker 1 (22:02):
Is what's the difference or what's the disconnect? Do you think, like,
what is the reality on the ground.
Speaker 3 (22:06):
Oh, you know, I've been offshore and some people look
at me and say, is Hong Kong. Is Hong Kong safe?
I say, it's a safer city in the world. You know,
come check it out. Time Out magazine just voted us
the safest city in the world just the other month,
and it is. I was actually having a chat with
some friends on Saturday night. I was having a quick
(22:26):
drink and one of the wives of my friend I
had met, and I saw her tearing up about just
the experience there from South America and just the experience
of being able to walk home at two am and
not even think about their safety. These are things that
again people take for granted, and if you come to
(22:49):
Hong Kong, you realize this is a really world class
safe city. I'm a stand up comedian, as you mentioned,
I love getting on stage and making people laugh, enjoying
this environment. There's no suppression of what we want to say.
The reality is, I think most people come to Hong
Kong they're quite politically agnostic. I mean I could go
(23:10):
to any expat and say who's the head of the
Financial services Treasury Bewer. They wouldn't know. So they're here
to make money, enjoy themselves, build connections further their career.
I mean, this is what people come to Hong Kong for.
So as long as that is being facilitated and supported,
what's the problem.
Speaker 1 (23:31):
So since you mentioned lists in Hong Kong being the safest,
there's another list I saw about Hong Kong and happiness.
Did you see this that Hong Kong is one of
the least happy cities in the world. How did this happen?
Speaker 3 (23:43):
Okay, we're a little short on elbow room, I agree,
and I think resilience comes into it. But again, what
determines happiness? This is something I've observed through my forty
one years on the planet. What matters more speaking positively
or stopping the negative talk. It's scientifically proven just to
cut the negative chatter that will weigh on anyone. So
(24:07):
the more negativity that circulates around the discussion, the more
it will weigh on you because it just via osmosis,
it seeps into your psyche and you feel like, oh,
things are dire. Just like if you hang around a
bunch of negative people, you leave the conversation sap of
energy and going home feeling depressed. It's awful their energy suckers.
So that's why I think, like, stop focusing on all
(24:29):
of this. Then the narrative needs to change, and the
pr is there's a hell of a lot of good
things that are going on in this city. Sure things
can be improved. I have no hesitation to talk about
some of the areas where I think Hong Kong can improve.
But if you focus on the positive and just park
all the negative rhetoric for a while, you tend to
(24:50):
find people again. There's that osmosis that happens, right, it's infectious.
Positive energy can be infectious negative energy too. So you know,
I don't want to get or spiritual about it, but
it's it's very very true.
Speaker 1 (25:04):
Do you have like specific things you want to talk
about just in terms of like areas of improvement, and.
Speaker 3 (25:08):
Sure, I mean general pr I think can be improved.
I think some of the things with the events, it's
really important for Hong Kong to embrace the best of
the private sector. So we tend to work really well
when we bring the best and brightest entrepreneurs and businesses
to the city and then give them the opportunity to
(25:28):
operate unencumbered. And by unincumbered, I don't mean free reign,
do whatever you want, but minimal intervention. Because it's the
private sector that gets business. I don't think it should
be the responsibility of the government to understand all the
commercials of doing business. It's not their job. So leave
it with the private sector, you know, empower them to
(25:49):
do it and bring the best of the best here
to drive things forward. I've spoken quite vocally again about
our For example, we have the best public transport system
in the world, but I'm not a fan about taxi system.
There's obviously been some.
Speaker 2 (26:03):
No credit cards by the way, can't pay on credit cards?
Speaker 3 (26:05):
Yeah, and look, it's not a good look for tourists.
Speaker 1 (26:08):
Right.
Speaker 3 (26:08):
The world has moved on. Ride hailing is there in
so many cities. Yes, it can be regulated some parts
of the world it's not very regulated, but just kind
of leaving it in this gray area where it's technically
an invertedcom is legal. It seems a bit behind the times.
In Hong Kong. The other side of it is the
embrace of digital and new ways of doing business really
(26:31):
needs to come into play. I mean checks, fax machines, gosh.
I really think these things aren't helpful for the progress
of this city. And you know, there are ways to
encourage and continue to support the right kind of innovation
and development for Hong Kong as parts of the city
look to reinvent itself by the same token. You know,
(26:54):
if I look at, for example, research and development spending
in Hong Kong, it's just shy of one percent of
g It's really minimal. So this is why when you
come into this amazing city, you find there's so many
things that are still quite analogue and ways of doing
business that just seem a bit obscure for this day
and age. You know, paper based and manual this manual that.
(27:16):
So I think the embrace of that is needed so
Hong Kong doesn't fall behind optically. Perception is not going
to be good if that continues. But I do see
efforts being made to push and promote these changes in
the city. I also think it's important when we talk
about I know there's a big push for R and
D and innovation. Now, the question is in what, like
(27:37):
where specifically is Hong Kong going to make it smart,
particularly visa VI China, because I think if we're trying
to compete with China tech, I just don't see a window.
But if we're trying to compete with China tech on
the back of where our USPS lie, particularly in capital markets,
wealth management, and embrace this technology to support our core drivers,
(28:01):
that's where we have a difference and we can create
a unique segment of the market where Hong Kong is
not just playing catch up or it's not just investing
for the sake of investing. It is the global leader
when it comes to certain what we call pillars or
dimensions of technology because it supports the core economy and
infrastructure that Hong Kong is known for.
Speaker 1 (28:22):
So what does that look like. It'll be like more
more tech IPOs here.
Speaker 3 (28:25):
Or yeah, well, I mean this is a wonderful capital
raising center, it's a wonderful wealth management center. It's great
for insurance, especially in terms of a lot of Manli
Chinese visitors looking to get policies here. It's so clear.
I mean, we don't need to scratch our heads and
say where does Hong Kong have an advantage? All the
USPS are right there. They're looking at us in the face.
So doubling down on that is critical. I think the
(28:48):
government has you know, they've pushed the Family Office agenda,
the Wealth Agenda, Stock connect Wealth can All of these
things are very clear in terms of where our usp lies,
but the technology wrapper around it. It should be focused
more on these areas as opposed to trying to get
into some you know, random gen AI effort led by
local entrepreneurs who may not be able to compete directly
(29:11):
with the tech companies in China. Now that doesn't mean
we should never look at it, right, I think we
need to future proof the city in terms of where
the global economy is moving, but again, how fast to
what extent? And pick your battles. And I've always been
in the view of instead of trying to do ten
things right, I'm a strategist. I sit there and advise
(29:33):
companies all day, every day what they should do, but
focus and picking your battles is key. And I think
we've potentially tried a few too many things and kind
of sprayed and hope things stuck, and we've seen that
a lot hasn't. So I think that the introspection to
say where do we really stand a chance to win.
Let's focus on that, and let's put the effort there.
Do two or three things right as opposed to ten
(29:55):
things average.
Speaker 1 (29:56):
There is one question I wanted, but I'm not going
to ask it because it's like others over year old.
But the fact that they're removing the bamboo scaffolding for
construction and then adding on to like the removal of
the electronic signs, like the old style signs. Yeah, Like
to me, that is someone who's only lived here for
like a year. I'm like, that is so for like visually,
it's the Hong Kong Yeah, the char exactly, the.
Speaker 3 (30:19):
Yeah yeah again. I keep saying DNA, right, I keep
using the phrase DNA because what makes Hong Kong unique.
If you strip it of too much of that, then
it just becomes like every other city on Earth. I
always joke around the fact that when I go to
Singapore it feels soulless, and I will maintain that. I
like it as a city, you know, but it doesn't
have the same grit. It doesn't have the same energy
(30:40):
and buzz. Everyone knows it. No one sits there and
says Singapore has more buzz than Hong.
Speaker 2 (30:45):
Kong, Benjamin, we do have a large listenership in Singapore.
Fans in Singapore. We still love you.
Speaker 3 (30:51):
I'll see I'll see you when I'm down there. No,
look again, very different propositions, but you're attracting fundamentally different expats, workers,
tourists to each city that come for different things. And
I agree that that electric energy of Hong Kong, those
neon signs, you know, it's that juxtaposition of the old
(31:12):
guy doing shoe repairs and then cutting keys in some
dingy store right next to a sixty foot steel skyscraper
office tower. Right, that's cool, that's and the CEO goes
to him. Yep, the CEO goes.
Speaker 1 (31:27):
To that guy.
Speaker 2 (31:28):
Yes, they do.
Speaker 3 (31:29):
You know, It's like the shoe shiners right in Lanqui.
I haven't seen them around. I mean, there's the Jumbo restaurant.
Now I'm not saying I had the best food, but
it was interesting, it was unique, it was different. So
hold on to these things. I even remember when there
was a question about the Star Ferry It's financial viability
and there were questions about whether to basically let it fold.
(31:50):
Absolutely not. You can't let an icon like the Star
ferry go. It has an intrinsic value that's much more
than dollars and cents. And I think that Hong Kong
is an economy based on business, business, business, business, but
it can't lose sight of the fact that there are
some buildings, traditions, heritages, restaurants, like all these things that
(32:13):
are worth preserving. And I think they have a dollar
value that is significantly higher than what you're going to
see in a short term P and L. That is
very hard to quantify. But the more you take out
and the more you just make it like every other city,
that would be a sad experience. So I do want
to see some of that really come back in. I
think that's a really important driver for what makes Hong
(32:35):
Kong so special.
Speaker 2 (32:36):
I actually think the poor service in restaurants is actually charming.
Speaker 3 (32:40):
Yeah, it's the only place in Hong Kong. It's the
only place where you go in they treat you like crap.
They've got their things in your food, they're throwing the
dishes at you, they're yelling at you because you haven't
put your order in immediately. Then they throw the bill
at you, push you out, and then they charge you
a ten percent service. But that is uniquely Hong Kong. Right, Yeah, Look,
(33:01):
I understand the whole idea about hospitality. Sometimes it's you know,
if you're going into places where you don't expect that
experience and it's a miserable frowny face and then the
hospitality levels are a bit subpar. Yeah, it does leave
a negative impression on people. But I don't think people
come to Hong Kong for perfection. That's what makes it
so cool. People come here for the imperfection and the
(33:22):
things that I'm talking about, you know, the gnarly, kind
of creuddy parts of it, right next to all the
most amazing and modern things, And I just I can't
see that anywhere else. You know that that's a fundamentally
Hong Kong thing.
Speaker 1 (33:38):
So a good place to wrap. Thanks so much for
coming on our podcast.
Speaker 3 (33:42):
Thank you for having me. It's been a pleasure, and
I'll see you Singaporean soon.
Speaker 1 (33:47):
You've been listening to Asia Centric from Bloomberg Intelligence. I'm
Kriet Demitriva on Hong Kong.
Speaker 2 (33:53):
I'm John Lee, also in Hong Kong. You can listen
to all our episodes on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever
you listen This podcast was also produced and edited by
Clara Chen and thanks for listening.
There are some green shoots in Hong Kong's economy. Last month,
the city hosted the famous rugby sevens tournament in a
brand new stadium, Art Basil, drew in strong crowds. Stocks
have also been positive, raising hopes of a boost in
the IPO market, but can.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
The city keep up its strong momentum. By and large,
inbound tourism numbers are still below pre pandemic levels. Meanwhile,
local residents continue to spend their hard earned cash over
the border in shenzhenne where items are usually thirty percent cheaper.
Office vacancy's continued to rize and they're now at seventeen percent,
(00:38):
and that's a record high. You're listening to Asia Centric
from Bloomberg Intelligence.
Speaker 1 (00:45):
I'm John Lee in Hong Kong, and I'm kat Teddimir
Trieva also in Hong Kong. Here to discuss all matters
of Hong Kong is Benjamin Quinlan. He's the CEO of
Quinlan and Associates. It's a strategy consulting firm specializing in
the financial sector. He's also a conference ambassador for the
Hong Kong Tourism Board, but he's also known for being
(01:06):
a stand up comedian here in the city. Welcome to
Asia Centric.
Speaker 3 (01:11):
Thank you very much, Katia and John, very good to
be here.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
We just had the busiest Art Basil since twenty nineteen.
Now that's in terms of foot traffic. Katya mentioned that
we had quite a few other events, including the Hong
Kong Sevens. Can Hong Kong sustain this energy throughout the
rest of this year?
Speaker 3 (01:27):
March madness is what we just saw, and March is
always a great month for Hong Kong because of the
confluence of these events. As you say, Art Basil, the Sevens,
Art Central Look. I think we're coming out of a
bit of a lull period and it's great to see
the numbers back. I mean the first thing I observed
because I just flew into Hong Kong from the Middle East,
(01:49):
it was packed and the amounts of people who were
returning to Hong Kong, particularly expats that used to live
here coming back four to sevens, feeling that nostalgia and
knowing what Hong Kong does well, and I think it
does the sevens and that scene extremely well. I do
think it's a sustainable thing, but we need to work
out what else comes in the roster of calendar and
(02:09):
events for the remainder of the year, and how do
we continue replicating that year after year. So Hong Kong
really stands out is providing some very unique experience visa
v other Asian cities.
Speaker 1 (02:20):
So what does that look like? You know, because you're
someone who is involved at both the city level with
various chambers of commerce to try to promote the city,
and you have a lot of ideas of how Hong
Kong can do this. Is it kind of an event's
driven approach? Is it something else?
Speaker 3 (02:35):
I think the mega events approach is the correct direction.
So I think John, you were mentioning the idea of
the integration with China in particular, a lot of Hong
Kong people going over the border and spending their money,
and I think with the emphasis on GBA now visa
free travel with Hong Kong residents into Shanchin and Guangzhou,
you are seeing a lot of Hong Kong people take
(02:56):
advantage of that price arbitrage and then get better discounts
in the mainland. But if you look at where Hong
Kong can compete, it can't compete on price. I think
we just need to resign ourselves to the fact that
we can't compete on price, and nor should we try
and compete on price. There's no point in importing deflation
into the market to levels that we need to match
(03:18):
Light for lake with China. Fundamentally, the experience in Hong
Kong is different, and that is what we have to
capitalize on. This is the international city of China, period.
Hong Kong knows it, China knows it, and if you
listen to China policy announcements every single time, they stress
almost time and time again, Hong Kong's importance as that
(03:39):
gateway to the rest of the world and also having
that international flavor that is so fundamentally unique. Doubling down
on that and working out how we can bring the
best international acts, the best international experiences into Hong Kong
will be critical. And when you talk about those tourist numbers,
they're not rebounding to the levels they were before. The
(04:00):
more important question is are we looking at the right metric.
Do we actually care about the number of tourists coming
into the city, or do we care about the quality
of tourists coming into the city. The reality is, if
you look at tourist numbers, these are day trips. People
that spend minimally. A lot of the flow is from
mainland China, that's not where the big spending is. And
(04:23):
I always say, if you stay for the experience, you're
naturally going to have to spend on f and b
retail and other things because you are in the city.
So the key thing is keeping boots on the ground
here and footfall here and ensuring Hong Kong people have
a reason to stay, as well as giving tourists and
visitors a reason to come and visit that they can't
(04:43):
get anywhere else, be it in China or any other
city in Asia.
Speaker 2 (04:48):
Benjamin, do you think the new stadium will be a
catalyst of drawing more crowns and more big events. Yeah?
Speaker 3 (04:54):
I think the stadium is fantastic. I was saying before.
I love the nostalgia associate with that Happy Valley Stadium.
It's so unique in the sense that it's open. You
have mountains and high rise apartments looming over the stadium,
so that topography of it and just the visual impact
of it is phenomenal. So that casts a lot of
doubt in my mind, can we replicate it? But when
(05:15):
I walked into Kayitak, my jaw fell on the ground.
It's really a phenomenal stadium. This is world class infrastructure.
It's really quite impressive, and I do think this will
be an important element in terms of driving international acts
events into the city. And if you look at where
all the biggest events in football and traffic is, it's
(05:35):
Clock and Flap, it's our Basil, it's the Sevens, it's Coldplay.
The evidence is there. So the reality is there's something
that works. It brings in the right kind of people,
it brings in the right kind of spending. It's wonderful
for Hong Kong's brand image in terms of making it
Asia's world city and reinforcing that angle. So I think
the emphasis on this is definitely the right approach in
(05:57):
terms of putting Hong Kong back on the global stage.
Into if it's branding, and how.
Speaker 1 (06:02):
Does that kind of feed into other aspects of the economy,
because you can have these make events which are fantastic
for consumption, and certainly I'm sure we'll see receipts quite
elevated from March again, especially this previous March. How does
that translate into other aspects of the economy like real estate,
for example, we still haven't really seen bottoming out of
that yet maybe the financial sector or is that completely separate.
Speaker 3 (06:27):
No, I don't think it's separate, but again it's episodic.
So the more consistent you can make this, the more
footfall in traffic there will be to spend on related industries.
So now that you have a stadium set up in
Kaitak or now that you have this new mall set
up Papa Home, for example, in chim Saw Troy, which
is the it's basically the partnership between Ali Baba Talbao
(06:49):
in a local startup called Papa Bom. This is really
interesting in terms of giving locals a reason to stay
and give tourists a reason to come. And the more
you are in the city, the more you are naturally
going to spend in the city if we are leaking
the local traffic constantly over the border. So let me
(07:09):
go back to that example. If I wanted to buy
furniture before, because this is what the more CAD is
for this new more, If I wanted to buy furniture before,
I would either do it directly online on Talboll where I.
Speaker 1 (07:20):
Would be Chinese website ry like you're getting it from China.
Speaker 3 (07:22):
Correct and there could be some issues associated with you know,
do I know the build quality, the material, the feel
of this furniture. A lot of people would want to
experience that. So what do they do. They go to
Shanzhen and they go to Shenzhen and they sample the
products and then buy there and then it's delivered to
Hong Kong. If you can give them a reason not
to go over the border and do the shopping here,
it's creating local jobs. It's also creating local infrastructure and
(07:45):
f and B that will circulate around that because the
footfall is so high. So again it's about why Hong
Kong people need to see that reason to stay and spend.
I think the challenge for Hong Kong, particularly when it
came to tourist dollars, is just the peg, right. It
obviously worked to the favor of people spending offshore because
we had a peg to the USD. The USD has
(08:06):
been extremely strong visa the other currencies over the past
twelve to eighteen months, and as a result of that,
you're purchasing power is significant. So trips to for example,
Japan became extremely on the top of the bucket list
because the yenet collapsed and the US dollar was so strong,
so it became a cheap trip. But you will start
to see a little bit of convergence and what he
would call mean reversion around these exchange rates. So there
(08:28):
will be some structural elements that will act as tailwinds
for a slight recovery of Hong Kong. But again, you
can't just rely on those macro forces. I think a
core focus on building the proposition of brand Hong Kong
is really important and that PR effort is going to
be critical to putting Hong Kong back on global stage.
Speaker 2 (08:46):
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(09:09):
If you like what you hear, don't forget to subscribe.
And Chair Benjamin, you just mentioned PR and you also
mentioned earlier that you just came back from Dubai. Yes,
what's the perception of Hong Kong outside. What was the
perception when you were there?
Speaker 1 (09:21):
Also, how has it changed in recent years If you've noticed.
Speaker 3 (09:24):
A change, well, I think Hong Kong went through a
bit of a pr battle, especially during the COVID period.
There are a lot of issues that put Hong Kong
on the map for the wrong reasons. But when people
come and visit and they see it, they realize that
the fundamental DNA of Hong Kong hasn't shifted all that much.
It is still the place it was. The memories, the feelings,
(09:46):
the experiences, they are very unique to Hong Kong. You
can't get rid of the topography here, you can't get
rid of that buzz, you know, the grungy side right
next to the tall office towers. I think all of
that DNA is are unique and it's what a lot
of people love. And I know a lot of expats that,
for example, left during COVID and now they're desperately trying
(10:07):
to come back. I think they realized I don't quite
enjoy the weather in London at fifty percent tax rate
isn't exactly the best thing. And I missed that energy
and buzz associated with Hong Kong, and particularly for an
expat lifestyle, I think people are very fortunate to have
domestic help here. It's a fundamentally different lifestyle when you're
living in Hong Kong. So there's many things that we
(10:28):
take for granted when we're here. You know, I'm local,
born and raised and I love the city. I always have.
Speaker 2 (10:33):
It will always be.
Speaker 3 (10:34):
Home for me.
Speaker 1 (10:35):
Have you always lived here?
Speaker 3 (10:36):
Uh No, So I was born and raised. I lived
here until I was twelve. Then I was shipped off
to Australia, which is where I got this bang and
posh accent of mine. And after fourteen years and then
getting my first job in Australia and then paying my
first tax bill, I went nope, and then I came
straight back. And particularly because I was in financial services,
(10:58):
this is naturally the right place to be. Australia is
a little bit remote, and I do think if you
want to work in financial services, Hong Kong is a
place to be in Asia. Otherwise it's New York and London.
Speaker 2 (11:08):
Talking about perception now, the authorities have made some comments
about improving the perception of Hong Kong. Have mentioned things like,
you know, restaurant staff should be nicer to their customers.
Speaker 1 (11:20):
Yeah, and there's some taxi drivers learning Arabic was another.
I remember a push by the city in the smoking ban.
I don't know if that's still going ahead, but there's
been all these you know, improvements.
Speaker 3 (11:32):
Right, So let's look at Japan. I'll give you an example.
I was in Japan two months ago. Japan is one
of the least tourist friendly countries in the world. No
one speaks English. Everything is very Japanese. You need to
know the lingoed language or use translation apps, and it's
very much. You come to Japan for the Japan experience.
(11:55):
You don't come to Japan for another experience. So I
don't think we need to try try and cater to
every single culture norm and so on. I think we
need to find our own identity, which we've had for
a long time. Hong Kong's identity is East meets West.
It has always been East meets West. That is what
is unique about it when I look around. So, you know,
(12:17):
I just came from the FCC, the Foreign Correspondence Club.
The FCC is one of the most instagrammed areas. It's
that architecture, it's that influence our history I think our
history is something that is very unique. It's something we
should embrace and promote. It's not something to frown upon.
I think overall, it's very clear that Hong Kong is transitioned.
(12:38):
We're very much part of China, but it doesn't mean
that our DNA is in any way different. I think
the reality is Hong Kong has developed over a very
long period of time this unique identity, which I think
it should aim to preserve because that is what a
lot of people find extremely special about the city, and
it's extremely hard to replicate that. Easy to build a stadium,
(13:01):
for example, well, I mean cost side, but it's very
hard to twenty years, sure, two week clear. I'm not
just saying it's, you know, a couple of bricks in
some cement. But the reality is the actual DNA of
this city has evolved over many, many, many decades, and
that's what people grow to love and what you'll find.
(13:24):
And this is what I really mean. Hong Kong is
one of the few places on earth that people come
to on a two year x pat contract and just stay,
and they stay for twenty to thirty plus years. It's
really hard to find that experience happened in other jurisdictions.
I really mean that. Have a look at the Hong
(13:45):
Kong national rugby team. It was this cosmopolitan mishmash of
people that call themselves Hong Kong's.
Speaker 2 (13:54):
I'm envisaging a lot of Kiwis in South Africans.
Speaker 3 (13:58):
The Brits, the Australian is the key. Again, that's what
makes Hong Kong so beautiful because it is that melting
pot of different cultures and it's something that people embrace.
It's amazing how many expats come to Hong Kong and
so rapidly call this place home. That is not something
that I see with other cities around the world.
Speaker 1 (14:19):
Okay, so let's say that you're in charge of the
next Hong Kong promotional video, you know, like a thirty
second clip that will go on TikTok, YouTube, Instagram, on TV.
What is it going to include? What is it going
to say?
Speaker 3 (14:34):
So I posted on my LinkedIn just very recently a
clip that was done in the nineties about Hong Kong,
and it was Tina Turner singing simply the Best, and
it was Hong Kong basically sticking out its chest and saying,
we have the most skyscrapers, we have the most mobile phones,
we have the most rolls royces. You know, it's all
(14:54):
the things that makes Hong Kong special, the number one
place to be. I actually did a take of all
of those usps, those unique selling points, and we're, what
thirty years on, They're all the same, They're all the
same things. So sometimes simplicity is the most beautiful and
(15:15):
authenticity is actually needed. I mean, we can have a
bunch of celebrities that a lot of people to the
rest of the world don't actually know, dancing around on
potting A Street, or.
Speaker 2 (15:24):
You're referencing the Hello Hong Kong ads. Yeah, can we
explain that one.
Speaker 1 (15:29):
I don't know if I'm familiar with that look.
Speaker 3 (15:31):
I think there was a campaign called Hello Hong Kong.
I don't think it hit very well. It was unfortunately
not It didn't reverberate with audiences both locally and globally.
But if you put that old nineteen ninety five video up,
it will literally evoke an emotional response. And sometimes it's
the simplicity of what Hong Kong is and showing it
(15:53):
really showed that melting pot cultural element. This is a
fun city and I think it's about bringing back that fun,
authentic element. It really is, and that's what people love
this town for.
Speaker 2 (16:06):
Ben when you refer to Hong Kong as Asia's world city,
but Hong Kong is also positioning itself as part of
the Greater Bay Area or the GBA, so it's becoming
more integrated with mainland China. English has spoken less in
Hong Kong than in purious periods. Do you see these
(16:27):
aims as being mutually exclusive or do you think they
can co exist?
Speaker 3 (16:33):
So it's really interesting because Hong Kong has been part
of China again now for what twenty eight years or
twenty seven years, it's not new. The GBA story in
principle that has a point. I think Hong Kong has
served as a very long time as the conduit between
China and the rest of the world. But I guess
(16:54):
GBA is much more about integration and it seems to
lean more on the one country side, whereas if you
look at Hong Kong's historic value proposition, it's been about
connectivity and more on the two systems side. So I
think there's an emphasis that each of them has a point,
(17:15):
But I don't necessarily think they sit so cleanly side
by side, because there is a bit of a juxtaposition
in terms of where is the emphasis of Hong Kong going.
And I do get the GBA story, you know, one
hundred plus million people, the size of the economy. But
then I look at the rest of the world. You know,
Hong Kong's always been a connectivity to China, period, not GBA,
(17:35):
the whole of China, and it's been the connector with
the whole rest of the world. I don't think doubling
down on a smaller part of an economic agenda or
a more specific one creates necessarily a value proposition over
and above where Hong Kong stood. And the challenge here is,
I guess when you talk about something like GBA, it's
(17:56):
not quite the same as like San Francisco Bay Area.
We still have different currencies, different regulations, different laws, different languages,
different languages. I guess you know. So that's the reality.
You can harmonize parts of it, but to what extent
will it be fully fully integrated? And I think Hong
Kong's unique source is really being different, not the same.
(18:22):
And I stress this before. When you pay close attention
to China and the way that they discuss the role
of Hong Kong. They are very well aware that Hong
Kong is that gateway to the rest of the world
for China. It is China's international city, and I hear
(18:42):
it time and time again, and I think the embrace
of that is really what makes this place special. That
is what has always made this place special, and I
think the emphasis on that is needed to reinvigorate exactly
you know why Hong Kong has always been the amazing
place it is.
Speaker 1 (19:00):
How do you think officials should address some of the
overhang associated with China? And I mean in the sense of,
you know, the security issues there were of large scale protests,
Hong Kong locked down for longer and more harshly than
other parts of the world. But also you're seeing even
now President Trump when he adds tariffs on China, he
(19:22):
also includes Hong Kong into that. And of course Hong
Kong officials can come back and say hold on a second,
like different jurisdictions. But how should Hong Kong officials kind
of address those issues.
Speaker 3 (19:34):
It's an interesting question. I am of the view that
sometimes responding staunchly to any criticism doesn't help, you know,
It's always the thing that I've always said to people,
you can't get bullied. If you don't respond to a bully,
they'll get bored. And I always think Hong Kong should
just focus on what it does best. It should just
(19:56):
do things right, keep focusing on showing, as opposed to
responding that it is a global city. I think, you know,
the Sevens's case in point, there's no discussion to be had.
Just look so the evidence is there and the narratives
and getting in these debates around you know, we refute
this position, yep, I get it. I think there's a
(20:18):
lot of political rhetoric going around now that's extremely unhealthy.
The world is very very much, in my view, in
a nineteen thirties geopolitical landscape, and we know that decade
didn't end very well. So I think Hong Kong should
just focus on what it does best. And even if
you look at somewhere like Singapore, parts of the Middle East,
(20:38):
you know, they focus resolutely on that. And there's maybe
some questions around, oh there's a human rights issue here,
or you know, there's capital punishment in this part of
the world. They just get on with it and it's
not about sitting there and defending everything all the time.
It's just about saying, you come to Singapore for the
great things that we have, for example. And I think
(20:59):
that's played to the favor of Singapore because it's positive
optics in pr really dominating all the negative and spending
giving airtime to things that I think don't necessarily deserve it.
Speaker 1 (21:10):
Oh so you mean like Singapore has similar issues, but
they're able to somehow communicate otherwise with the world.
Speaker 3 (21:18):
Yeah, I think so. I mean if you look at
the political establishment in Singapore, if you look at the
laws in Singapore. I mean, every jurisdiction may have some
form of criticism, but I don't think Singapore dwells on this.
I think Singapore is very clear about what they're strong at,
what value they bring to the world, and they focus
on that. You know, it's about that positive messaging, and
(21:39):
that's really important because otherwise, the more airtime that you
give to the negativity, the more it gets attention, and
the more that weighs on people's minds in terms of perception,
because sometimes perception, well not sometimes oftentimes perception can lead
to reality. And that's the unfortunate part, because I think
there is quite a divide between the perception of home
(22:00):
and the reality on the ground.
Speaker 1 (22:02):
Is what's the difference or what's the disconnect? Do you think, like,
what is the reality on the ground.
Speaker 3 (22:06):
Oh, you know, I've been offshore and some people look
at me and say, is Hong Kong. Is Hong Kong safe?
I say, it's a safer city in the world. You know,
come check it out. Time Out magazine just voted us
the safest city in the world just the other month,
and it is. I was actually having a chat with
some friends on Saturday night. I was having a quick
(22:26):
drink and one of the wives of my friend I
had met, and I saw her tearing up about just
the experience there from South America and just the experience
of being able to walk home at two am and
not even think about their safety. These are things that
again people take for granted, and if you come to
(22:49):
Hong Kong, you realize this is a really world class
safe city. I'm a stand up comedian, as you mentioned,
I love getting on stage and making people laugh, enjoying
this environment. There's no suppression of what we want to say.
The reality is, I think most people come to Hong
Kong they're quite politically agnostic. I mean I could go
(23:10):
to any expat and say who's the head of the
Financial services Treasury Bewer. They wouldn't know. So they're here
to make money, enjoy themselves, build connections further their career.
I mean, this is what people come to Hong Kong for.
So as long as that is being facilitated and supported,
what's the problem.
Speaker 1 (23:31):
So since you mentioned lists in Hong Kong being the safest,
there's another list I saw about Hong Kong and happiness.
Did you see this that Hong Kong is one of
the least happy cities in the world. How did this happen?
Speaker 3 (23:43):
Okay, we're a little short on elbow room, I agree,
and I think resilience comes into it. But again, what
determines happiness? This is something I've observed through my forty
one years on the planet. What matters more speaking positively
or stopping the negative talk. It's scientifically proven just to
cut the negative chatter that will weigh on anyone. So
(24:07):
the more negativity that circulates around the discussion, the more
it will weigh on you because it just via osmosis,
it seeps into your psyche and you feel like, oh,
things are dire. Just like if you hang around a
bunch of negative people, you leave the conversation sap of
energy and going home feeling depressed. It's awful their energy suckers.
So that's why I think, like, stop focusing on all
(24:29):
of this. Then the narrative needs to change, and the
pr is there's a hell of a lot of good
things that are going on in this city. Sure things
can be improved. I have no hesitation to talk about
some of the areas where I think Hong Kong can improve.
But if you focus on the positive and just park
all the negative rhetoric for a while, you tend to
(24:50):
find people again. There's that osmosis that happens, right, it's infectious.
Positive energy can be infectious negative energy too. So you know,
I don't want to get or spiritual about it, but
it's it's very very true.
Speaker 1 (25:04):
Do you have like specific things you want to talk
about just in terms of like areas of improvement, and.
Speaker 3 (25:08):
Sure, I mean general pr I think can be improved.
I think some of the things with the events, it's
really important for Hong Kong to embrace the best of
the private sector. So we tend to work really well
when we bring the best and brightest entrepreneurs and businesses
to the city and then give them the opportunity to
(25:28):
operate unencumbered. And by unincumbered, I don't mean free reign,
do whatever you want, but minimal intervention. Because it's the
private sector that gets business. I don't think it should
be the responsibility of the government to understand all the
commercials of doing business. It's not their job. So leave
it with the private sector, you know, empower them to
(25:49):
do it and bring the best of the best here
to drive things forward. I've spoken quite vocally again about
our For example, we have the best public transport system
in the world, but I'm not a fan about taxi system.
There's obviously been some.
Speaker 2 (26:03):
No credit cards by the way, can't pay on credit cards?
Speaker 3 (26:05):
Yeah, and look, it's not a good look for tourists.
Speaker 1 (26:08):
Right.
Speaker 3 (26:08):
The world has moved on. Ride hailing is there in
so many cities. Yes, it can be regulated some parts
of the world it's not very regulated, but just kind
of leaving it in this gray area where it's technically
an invertedcom is legal. It seems a bit behind the times.
In Hong Kong. The other side of it is the
embrace of digital and new ways of doing business really
(26:31):
needs to come into play. I mean checks, fax machines, gosh.
I really think these things aren't helpful for the progress
of this city. And you know, there are ways to
encourage and continue to support the right kind of innovation
and development for Hong Kong as parts of the city
look to reinvent itself by the same token. You know,
(26:54):
if I look at, for example, research and development spending
in Hong Kong, it's just shy of one percent of
g It's really minimal. So this is why when you
come into this amazing city, you find there's so many
things that are still quite analogue and ways of doing
business that just seem a bit obscure for this day
and age. You know, paper based and manual this manual that.
(27:16):
So I think the embrace of that is needed so
Hong Kong doesn't fall behind optically. Perception is not going
to be good if that continues. But I do see
efforts being made to push and promote these changes in
the city. I also think it's important when we talk
about I know there's a big push for R and
D and innovation. Now, the question is in what, like
(27:37):
where specifically is Hong Kong going to make it smart,
particularly visa VI China, because I think if we're trying
to compete with China tech, I just don't see a window.
But if we're trying to compete with China tech on
the back of where our USPS lie, particularly in capital markets,
wealth management, and embrace this technology to support our core drivers,
(28:01):
that's where we have a difference and we can create
a unique segment of the market where Hong Kong is
not just playing catch up or it's not just investing
for the sake of investing. It is the global leader
when it comes to certain what we call pillars or
dimensions of technology because it supports the core economy and
infrastructure that Hong Kong is known for.
Speaker 1 (28:22):
So what does that look like. It'll be like more
more tech IPOs here.
Speaker 3 (28:25):
Or yeah, well, I mean this is a wonderful capital
raising center, it's a wonderful wealth management center. It's great
for insurance, especially in terms of a lot of Manli
Chinese visitors looking to get policies here. It's so clear.
I mean, we don't need to scratch our heads and
say where does Hong Kong have an advantage? All the
USPS are right there. They're looking at us in the face.
So doubling down on that is critical. I think the
(28:48):
government has you know, they've pushed the Family Office agenda,
the Wealth Agenda, Stock connect Wealth can All of these
things are very clear in terms of where our usp lies,
but the technology wrapper around it. It should be focused
more on these areas as opposed to trying to get
into some you know, random gen AI effort led by
local entrepreneurs who may not be able to compete directly
(29:11):
with the tech companies in China. Now that doesn't mean
we should never look at it, right, I think we
need to future proof the city in terms of where
the global economy is moving, but again, how fast to
what extent? And pick your battles. And I've always been
in the view of instead of trying to do ten
things right, I'm a strategist. I sit there and advise
(29:33):
companies all day, every day what they should do, but
focus and picking your battles is key. And I think
we've potentially tried a few too many things and kind
of sprayed and hope things stuck, and we've seen that
a lot hasn't. So I think that the introspection to
say where do we really stand a chance to win.
Let's focus on that, and let's put the effort there.
Do two or three things right as opposed to ten
(29:55):
things average.
Speaker 1 (29:56):
There is one question I wanted, but I'm not going
to ask it because it's like others over year old.
But the fact that they're removing the bamboo scaffolding for
construction and then adding on to like the removal of
the electronic signs, like the old style signs. Yeah, Like
to me, that is someone who's only lived here for
like a year. I'm like, that is so for like visually,
it's the Hong Kong Yeah, the char exactly, the.
Speaker 3 (30:19):
Yeah yeah again. I keep saying DNA, right, I keep
using the phrase DNA because what makes Hong Kong unique.
If you strip it of too much of that, then
it just becomes like every other city on Earth. I
always joke around the fact that when I go to
Singapore it feels soulless, and I will maintain that. I
like it as a city, you know, but it doesn't
have the same grit. It doesn't have the same energy
(30:40):
and buzz. Everyone knows it. No one sits there and
says Singapore has more buzz than Hong.
Speaker 2 (30:45):
Kong, Benjamin, we do have a large listenership in Singapore.
Fans in Singapore. We still love you.
Speaker 3 (30:51):
I'll see I'll see you when I'm down there. No,
look again, very different propositions, but you're attracting fundamentally different expats, workers,
tourists to each city that come for different things. And
I agree that that electric energy of Hong Kong, those
neon signs, you know, it's that juxtaposition of the old
(31:12):
guy doing shoe repairs and then cutting keys in some
dingy store right next to a sixty foot steel skyscraper
office tower. Right, that's cool, that's and the CEO goes
to him. Yep, the CEO goes.
Speaker 1 (31:27):
To that guy.
Speaker 2 (31:28):
Yes, they do.
Speaker 3 (31:29):
You know, It's like the shoe shiners right in Lanqui.
I haven't seen them around. I mean, there's the Jumbo restaurant.
Now I'm not saying I had the best food, but
it was interesting, it was unique, it was different. So
hold on to these things. I even remember when there
was a question about the Star Ferry It's financial viability
and there were questions about whether to basically let it fold.
(31:50):
Absolutely not. You can't let an icon like the Star
ferry go. It has an intrinsic value that's much more
than dollars and cents. And I think that Hong Kong
is an economy based on business, business, business, business, but
it can't lose sight of the fact that there are
some buildings, traditions, heritages, restaurants, like all these things that
(32:13):
are worth preserving. And I think they have a dollar
value that is significantly higher than what you're going to
see in a short term P and L. That is
very hard to quantify. But the more you take out
and the more you just make it like every other city,
that would be a sad experience. So I do want
to see some of that really come back in. I
think that's a really important driver for what makes Hong
(32:35):
Kong so special.
Speaker 2 (32:36):
I actually think the poor service in restaurants is actually charming.
Speaker 3 (32:40):
Yeah, it's the only place in Hong Kong. It's the
only place where you go in they treat you like crap.
They've got their things in your food, they're throwing the
dishes at you, they're yelling at you because you haven't
put your order in immediately. Then they throw the bill
at you, push you out, and then they charge you
a ten percent service. But that is uniquely Hong Kong. Right, Yeah, Look,
(33:01):
I understand the whole idea about hospitality. Sometimes it's you know,
if you're going into places where you don't expect that
experience and it's a miserable frowny face and then the
hospitality levels are a bit subpar. Yeah, it does leave
a negative impression on people. But I don't think people
come to Hong Kong for perfection. That's what makes it
so cool. People come here for the imperfection and the
(33:22):
things that I'm talking about, you know, the gnarly, kind
of creuddy parts of it, right next to all the
most amazing and modern things, And I just I can't
see that anywhere else. You know that that's a fundamentally
Hong Kong thing.
Speaker 1 (33:38):
So a good place to wrap. Thanks so much for
coming on our podcast.
Speaker 3 (33:42):
Thank you for having me. It's been a pleasure, and
I'll see you Singaporean soon.
Speaker 1 (33:47):
You've been listening to Asia Centric from Bloomberg Intelligence. I'm
Kriet Demitriva on Hong Kong.
Speaker 2 (33:53):
I'm John Lee, also in Hong Kong. You can listen
to all our episodes on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever
you listen This podcast was also produced and edited by
Clara Chen and thanks for listening.
Hosts And Creators
John Lee
Tom Corbett
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