November 19, 2018 • 25 mins
Do you have to be a self-interested jerk to succeed at work, what you're supposed to talk about in one-on-ones, and more
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
My colleagues will stop commenting on everything I get my
assistant roles at people and meeting Why does my coworker
keep taking credit for all my ideas? Have any wisdom
for me? Hi'm Alison Green. Welcome to the Aska Manager Podcast.
Right answer questions from listeners about life at work, everything
from what to say if you're allergic to your coworkers
perfume to what to do if you drink too much
(00:23):
at the company party. Let's get started, Hi, and welcome
to the show. Today. We have a bunch of shorter
questions from people to answer, and our first question is
from someone who is managing people for the first time
and wondering what the hell she's supposed to talk about
with them when she does one on one meetings. Hi, Allison,
(00:45):
I'm a new department director, promoted to my position a
little over a year ago. I manage a team of
around fifteen, out of whom are direct report staff. When
I took over this department, it was a train wreck,
and even our company president would agree with that assessment.
I've spent my time trying to get everything back on track,
(01:07):
meeting deadlines and getting some more in depth regulatory training
for all of us, and now I'm pleased to say
that the department is significantly improved. We're moving in the
same direction, deadlines are being met. I feel like I
can take a step back and the entire department can
take a breath. And one of your podcasts, The Talkative
(01:29):
Intern from July eight, two thousand eighteen, you talked about
the importance of regular one on one meetings with employees,
and it was like someone turned the lights on for me.
I haven't been doing that. You see, my background is
project management, and this is the first time that I've
managed humans. So I had to do an internet search
(01:54):
about what these meetings should look like, and of course
I started with ask a manager. I literally have no idea.
So I went ahead and started these meetings this week,
even though I'm still fumbling in the dark sum But
I would love your thoughts on what a typical check
in meeting would look like. About how long should it last?
(02:18):
Is there a standard length of time that we should
spend in these meetings? Is there anything that should be
covered in every single meeting with each employee? Is there
a good standard on frequency or does that totally depend
on your staff and your business and what everyone does
and what projects you have going on, etcetera, etcetera. I've
(02:41):
learned so much about managing employees since i started listening
to the podcast and reading your blog, and so I'm
really looking forward to your input on these very important meetings. Thanks.
I'm really excited to get this question because doing check
in meetings well. Doing them well can make a huge
(03:01):
difference and how effectively you're managing your team and how
much your employees themselves feel like they're on track. I
know it might not sound like the most exciting topic
to people listening, but I think it kind of is
because doing these right can be the entire backbone of management.
It's really really key, and so many people don't really
do them effectively if they do them at all. The
(03:24):
idea is that having a regular time to touch base
one and one with each of your staff people about
their work keeps you both focused on the results that
they're getting and creates a place for you to check
on how projects are coming, serve as a resource to them,
agree in priorities, and give feedback. They're really your core
forum for management. They're the primary place where you do
(03:46):
the work of managing. You asked how often to have them.
For most people, meeting weekly works well, but if you
have more experienced staffers, or if you have people whose
work just doesn't require weekly conversation, you could do every
other week most of the time, though I wouldn't do
less frequently than every other week, and usually they're going
(04:06):
to be thirty to sixty minutes somewhere in there. I
would start in the beginning scheduling them for an hour
and see how they go. If you keep finding that
you don't need that much time, you can always cut
them down. And something that's really key is always use
an agenda so that you're both clear ahead of time
and how you're going to be using the time. You
can ask your employee to prepare that agenda and send
(04:29):
it to you ahead of time, and you can ask
that it includes specific sections each week, so things like
a section for key project updates, a section for priorities
for the coming week, a section for items that need
your feedback, a section for anything that the person is
waiting on you for. And then don't just use their agenda,
I mean use it, but add your own things to it.
(04:49):
Jot down your own items that you want to raise,
and actually before the meeting it's a really good idea
to just take a few minutes and kind of reflect,
ask yourself, what are you the most war worried about
as it relates to this person or to their work.
What do you really want to use the time to
focus on. It sounds obvious, but making yourself do that
every time can make sure that you're focusing on the
(05:11):
right things. For example, you might realize one day, Oh,
the thing that I'm most worried about in Jane's realm
is the question of what more we need to do
to generate ticket sales for our upcoming event. So I
want to spend some time with her brainstorming other approaches
we could use. Or you might realize Jane has seemed
kind of off her normally very good game lately, so
(05:34):
I want to ask her if she's doing okay and
if there's anything going on that I can support her with.
So it might be the stuff that you're most worried
about that you most want to talk about, might be
the day to day work, or it might be something
a little bit more big picture when you step back
and really think about it. It's also helpful to keep
a running list throughout the week of things that you
want to raise at the check in, which could be
(05:56):
like a piece of feedback that you want to give,
or a reminder to yourself that the staff person was
supposed to check into topic X, but you haven't heard
any update, and so you want to follow up on
it or so forth. By keeping a running list all
week long, that way, you won't forget anything when the
check in comes around, and you also won't be bugging
people throughout the week about things that can wait for
your time together, and that can be helpful in making
(06:19):
sure that people don't feel like you're sort of hovering.
I would also consider having a section on the agenda
for reflecting on what has gone well recently and what
could have gone better, and you can ask the employee
to bring their own thoughts on that. You can make
it part of the agenda that you're using every week.
You can ask them to come prepared to share their
thoughts on that, and you'll offer your own. And doing
(06:41):
that is so useful because it makes feedback just a normal,
regular part of your meetings, and it's super helpful. When
you normalize feedback like that, it doesn't feel so scary
to people, and you ensure that there's this constant flow
of both positive and developmental feedback, which is a really
awesome thing to have. Now, what you don't what to
do with these meetings is have them turn into just
(07:03):
a big list of project updates where the person just
runs down everything they're working on and where it stands,
and then the meeting ends. The point of these meetings
is not to make the person document where their time
went that week. It's to see how the person is
progressing towards their big goals, ask probing questions, spot any
areas of concern, serve as a resource to them, help
(07:25):
problem solve if needed, help balance priorities, debrief projects, and
give feedback. So make sure that you're not letting these
just turn into like a report on how the person
spent their time in the last week. That's not what
you're doing here. And actually you can even ask people
to include short, bulleted updates in the agenda that they
send you ahead of time, so that you can read
(07:47):
those before the meeting, and then that way that's out
of the way and you can spend your face to
face time on the stuff that really requires conversation. And
then I'm also going to point you to my book
and management, because there is a whole chapter in are
on how to do check in meetings. Well. So the
book is called Managing to Change the World, The Nonprofit
Manager's Guide to Getting Results, and as you can tell
(08:08):
by the title, it is written for nonprofit managers, but
like of what's in there is going to apply in
any sector, so hopefully that will be a good resource too.
We will take a quick break here and come right back. Hi, Alison.
(08:31):
First off, thank you for your great podcast on work
questions in the like. I found myself off in relating
to a lot of the issues that come up in
somewhere or another, and it has definitely helped me navigate
my office culture, so thank you. I wanted to email
you about an issue that has come up often in
my career in regards to doing the right thing. I'm
a late twenties male who has been working in a
technical environment for the entirety of my career. I don't
(08:53):
know if it has just been the companies that I've
worked for, but there seems to be a prevailing issue
of image versus actions in guards to people's behavior when
working in an office environment. When things go wrong, which
they inevitably will, because nobody is perfect, there tends to
be a flurry of finger pointing and claims of innocence
with no accountability of the issue. Accountability has brought up
(09:14):
a lot, and what I mean by accountability is the
person holding themselves accountable for their own quality of work.
I find myself to be a person with integrity who
does not like throwing people under the bus. I will
also readily admit when I have made a mistake. The
thing I have an issue with is that if I'm
the only one who does these things, I end up
looking like a screw up instead of building a reputation
as someone who is honest with themselves. Even worse, those
(09:38):
with machavelli in tendencies can achieve a lot before someone
sees the person behind the curtain if at all, and
will steamroll over people like me if I wait for
the higher ups to quote unquote see through what is happening.
Office environments are full of these types of people who
will kick and claw and tear others down to look
useful to their boss or others. I want to succeed,
(09:58):
but I want to do so honestly, and I want
to earn it. Am I just not cut out for
working in an office. Thanks. I wish I knew what
field you work in, because I don't actually think that
this is typical. There are certainly people everywhere who are
just out for themselves and who are willing to step
on other people in order to advance, but they usually
(10:19):
stand out as pretty unusual. They're not typically the majority
of people in an office, unless you're in a dysfunctional
office or a dysfunctional field. So I'm very curious about
what work you do, because some fields are definitely more
populated by jerks than others. But so often this kind
of behavior is because the organization's culture allows it. You
(10:41):
don't find it in offices that prioritize transparency and integrity
and where leaders are modeling those things themselves. If I
were in your shoes, I would try to get a
read on is this just your industry or have you
worked at particularly bad companies. One way to do that
is to seek out a mentor someone who works in
(11:02):
your field but is a bit more experience than you
and talk to them about what you're seeing. Ask if
they think it's just the nature of the work that
you're doing, or if it sounds off to them, or
if you have friends who also work in your field
at different companies, you can bounce this off them as well.
My hunch is that it's about the companies that you've
been at. You said you're late twenties, so that's probably
(11:25):
something like one to three companies, I'm guessing, and that's
not a huge sample size to draw conclusions based off of.
But certainly by the time you're seeing it for the
third time in a row, you're naturally going to start
to wonder. So talk to someone who's in the same field,
who has a more senior vantage point on it, and
see what they say. But to answer your broader question, no,
(11:46):
this is not just the way offices work. It might
be the way your offices have worked so far, but
it's not a normal thing. So the next time that
your job searching, I would really dig into the culture
of anywhere that you're can that are in taking a job,
and really prioritize cultures that do emphasize transparency and learning
from mistakes, and try to talk to people who work
(12:09):
there before you take your next job so that you
can figure out if it's just going to be the
same thing all over again. And actually, one other thing
that can help with this is having a really good
relationship with your manager. I would really lean into developing that,
like building trust and credibility with your boss, because that
will pay off in two different ways. One, you say
(12:31):
that you feel like being really upfront about your mistakes
is making you look like you're a screw up because
no one else is doing it. But if you have
a really good, strong relationship with your boss, that is
less likely to happen because your boss will know you
and will know that you're very upfront about that kind
of thing, and if they're at all a decent boss,
they should respect or at least understand that. And then
(12:53):
the second way that it can help is if you
develop a good enough for poor with your boss, potentially
you can ask her about this too, and she will
be really well positioned to talk to you with much
more nuanced than I can about what you're seeing in
your company and whether you're reading it right. So I
would really work on building that relationship. Good luck. Okay,
(13:16):
here is our next question. Hi, Alison, thanks so much
for taking my question. I am a teacher who started
a new program with another teacher last year. We worked
together really well and we're generally thought to be successful
by the administrator supervising the program. There is one issue
I had, though, that I'm curious about how you would
(13:36):
suggest I approach. Part of this program requires frequent record
keeping about his progress. One agreement that my colleague and
I came to is that we would split up the
work to make it easier to great students and to
keep up with all the paperwork. However, my colleague often
waited over a month to update his share of the paperwork.
(13:57):
At one point I offered to do it if he
was having trouble peping up with it, but he insisted
that he could do it and wanted to handle it
and didn't want to place an unfair burden on me.
I also feel a little weird about continuing to make
that offer, as I'm worried about gender dynamics. I'm a woman,
he's a man, and I know often in these situations
women get stuck with the clerical work. On the other hand,
(14:19):
to measure our progress, it's important that the records are
kept up to date, and I'd rather do it myself
and have access to the information we need than to
wait for him. We're about to finish our training process,
with our new set of students, and I'm worried about
this happening again once the paperwork increases. The hope and
goal is that our program is going to expand, which
(14:39):
means that the record keeping will only get more intense.
We don't have hard deadlines for this, which I think
maybe makes him feel like it's fine if he puts
it off. However, there is an expectation that we are
keeping our records up to date in a timely fashion.
Am I being a control freak about this? How do
you suggest I approach him about it again? Since the
last time I tried I wasn't successful. I do not
(15:03):
think you're being a control freak about it. It sounds
like the record keeping has to be done. I think
it's good, though, that he did not take you up
in your offer to do it for him, because he
really should be doing it himself, and because you're right
about the gender dynamics where women often step in and
do more than their share of the sort of office
housekeeping type work, because we're socialized to care about it
(15:27):
more and to be bothered by it more when it's
not done, and to be somewhat comfortable with just stepping
up and doing it so that it is done, even
if we're annoyed that we have to do it. So, yeah,
it's not good for anyone when you step in and
do that because someone else isn't pulling their weight. The
exception to that can be if you agree upfront to
(15:49):
divide the work that way, and in exchange he takes
on something roughly equivalent in terms of time and energy
that you would prefer not to do. But even then
you have to be careful that you don't get the
short end of the stick there, because if the thing
that he takes on in exchange is more high profile
or is seen as more valuable, then you're at a disadvantage,
(16:12):
even if you would otherwise be pretty happy with the arrangement.
So it's important to think about that aspect of it too. Anyway,
as far as what to do here, I think you've
got to get really clear in your own mind about
exactly what the impact is on you if he doesn't
do the paperwork in a timely way, if it's mainly
annoying but doesn't actually have a real impact on you
(16:34):
and your ability to do your job. I would try
very hard to let that go, and believe me, I
am all about being annoyed by things that are just
annoying on principle but don't actually affect me. So I
would get it if that was what was happening, But
you would be better off forcing your brain to accept
that it's not your problem to solve. But it doesn't
sound like that's the case from what you're saying. It
(16:56):
sounds like you really do need his records up to
date because need access to that information. If that is correct,
then that's the piece of this to focus on. Now.
When you talk to him last time, it's not clear
to me if you talked through why this is a
problem and how it's impacting you, or if you just
made the offer to take it off his plate. Form.
(17:17):
My hunch is that you might have focused more on
that second piece, just offering to do it, because that
is often what people do. So I would go to
him this time and say something like, you know, last
year I had trouble getting information like X, Y, and
Z because you aren't updating on our records very frequently,
and I really want to be able to do blank.
So can we agree that we'll both update at least
(17:39):
every week or whatever? I'm just making up a time
period there, but whatever makes sense. The idea is to
be really clear about why it matters, what the impact
is if he doesn't do it, so that it doesn't
sound like you just care about paperwork for paperwork's sake.
And I say that because when you're someone who is
really on top of the stuff and you're nudging someone
(18:01):
who isn't, there can be this dynamic where it starts
to feel to both of you like you're just the nag.
You know, you're just nagging the other person to do
some pitoly thing that you only care about because you
love order and you love paperwork. So the more that
you can ground this in the actual impact that it's
having on you or on your students, the better. And
(18:22):
then if he agrees to that but still ends up
not doing it, then you can approach him about it
again at that point and again ground it in the impact.
So at that point you could say something like, hey,
I was looking for X piece of information yesterday and
I couldn't find it. Could you get your records up
to date sometime this week so that I've got access
to that stuff? So again it's not do this because
(18:44):
you're supposed to be on top of it, even though
that's true, it's do this because it's causing this specific
work related issue that we need to take care of.
We'll do one ware break here and come right back.
(19:04):
This next color is someone who wanted to respond to
a previous episode of the show, the episode called My
Boss is a Jerk to Me, where the color on
that show had a boss who was really snippy with
her and constantly seemed frustrated with her. The person we're
about to hear from is a manager who feels like
she's in that situation, but from the boss's side, she
(19:26):
is the boss who is annoyed with her employee. Hi, Allison,
I want to start by saying I just discovered this
podcast and I love it. I have many questions that
I will get to email into you, but I wanted
to start with some feedback from the My Boss is
a Jerk to the episode. While I don't condone being
snappy or short with someone, I have to share that
I'm sharing a sort of similar experience from the boss's side.
(19:49):
I'm sort of a manager slash supervisor to the person
who filled my last position. I've explained many times since
you started, and during the interview process that the site
has not done a good out of documenting job processes.
But I tried documenting as much as I can while
I was doing this position, which was a lot. I'm
pointing her in the direction of those to learn, but
(20:10):
also explaining things that are not documented and encouraging her
to edit the script or create a new one. Take
as many notes as possible so that it makes sense
to you the next time you do it. Review the
notes you took a day or two after you completed
the tests, refer to them when something similar happens. No
matter what, though, I'm getting the same exact questions about
(20:33):
things that are simple and that I would have expected
her to learn by now. One interaction that stands out
to me is that after her return from a vacation day,
she stopped in my office. When she got in and
asked me what I wanted her to do. It wasn't
the end of the month or anything where we would
need to prioritize those activities. I said, she can carry
(20:53):
on with her normal day. When she left my office,
I wanted to screen It's made four months that she
in here. I expect that you have working, know that
you should be doing, and that you as are working professional,
instructured your day around anyway, this is a moment where
I could have been short with her, like the caller's boss,
I just wanted to share the feedback and I look
(21:14):
forward to asking more questions. I really appreciate this Color
sharing this because I think that we don't hear enough
from the manager's side of these types of interactions, and
managers aren't always self aware enough to realize when they
are being short with someone. So it's good that this
person is spotting it. I know this Color isn't asking
(21:35):
for advice, is she's just sharing her perspective, but I
want to offer them anyway. I think as a manager,
when you are at the point where you're really frustrated
with an employee, and definitely when you're at the point
that where you can tell that you're on the verge
of snapping at someone, that's a flag to you that
there's a problem that you have to address. You're the boss,
(21:55):
after all, you say what goes and what doesn't, And
in this case, it sounds like it's tie him to
sit down with her and have a hard conversation. Tell
her that you're concerned that she's not retaining the training
that you've given her, that she's asking the same questions
over and over and that she's not picking up the
job as quickly as you need her to, and ask
her what's going on, because who knows, there may be
(22:17):
something she will share with you that will give you
some context that you didn't have before. But either way,
the important thing is to start talking about it. Let
her know what you need to see her doing differently,
and let her know that the issues are serious ones,
and see if you can come up with a plan
together for how she'll approach the work differently, and that
might help, But if it doesn't help, and sometimes it won't,
(22:39):
then you will know that you have been very upfront
and straightforward and given clear feedback and that she wasn't
able to make the improvements that you said you needed,
And at that point you'll have enough information to conclude
she's not the right person for the job and you
can make a change and get someone in who is
and know that you were upfront and candid with her
(23:00):
and gave her the chance to meet those expectations. But
it sounds like you're at a point where you're really frustrated,
and understandably so, but that you haven't yet done this
step of having the serious conversation and moving toward resolving
it one way or the other. And always when you're
this frustrated, it's a sign that you've got to sit
down and address it, whatever it is that's going on.
(23:22):
Sometimes managers get stuck in the part of the process
where they're seeing the problems and they're frustrated by them,
but they haven't moved on to the part where they
talk about them. You don't want to forget that you're
the manager here and you have the authority, and really,
I would argue the obligation to say, hey, this isn't
going the way that it needs to. Let's sit down
(23:43):
and talk about what's happening and what I need to
see you doing differently. And then if you don't see
those changes, you have the ability to decide that you
need to make a change. And I know that's hard
to do, but it's definitely no kindness to the person,
or to you or to your other employees to stay
my heard in this place where you're really frustrated, with
good reason for that frustration, but not to speak openly
(24:06):
about it anyway. I know that's a lot In response
to a call that was just intended as a comment
on a previous episode, but I wanted to get into
that a little bit because I think that type of
frustration is so common as a manager, and it doesn't
need to be Before we wrap up, I want to
put out a call for office holiday stories. I am
(24:26):
working on an upcoming holiday themed episode, and I want
to include your stories about holidays at work. Gift exchange
has gone terribly wrong, holiday party disasters, the time your
boss got drunk at the Christmas potluck and passed out
on the copier. Whatever funny or weird stories you have
about holidays at work, I want to hear them, and
(24:47):
also any questions that you have about holidays at work,
whether or not to give your boss or your coworkers
a gift, how to get out of working New Year's Eve,
whether you really have to attend the office holiday party,
whatever your one ring about. Send it in. There are
two different ways to submit your stories and questions. You
can record them on the show voicemail by calling eight
(25:08):
five five two six work That is eight five five
four two six nine six seven five, or you can
record a sound file on your phone and just email
it to podcast at aska manager dot org. That is
it for today, Thanks for listening and I will be
back next time with more questions. M
My colleagues will stop commenting on everything I get my
assistant roles at people and meeting Why does my coworker
keep taking credit for all my ideas? Have any wisdom
for me? Hi'm Alison Green. Welcome to the Aska Manager Podcast.
Right answer questions from listeners about life at work, everything
from what to say if you're allergic to your coworkers
perfume to what to do if you drink too much
(00:23):
at the company party. Let's get started, Hi, and welcome
to the show. Today. We have a bunch of shorter
questions from people to answer, and our first question is
from someone who is managing people for the first time
and wondering what the hell she's supposed to talk about
with them when she does one on one meetings. Hi, Allison,
(00:45):
I'm a new department director, promoted to my position a
little over a year ago. I manage a team of
around fifteen, out of whom are direct report staff. When
I took over this department, it was a train wreck,
and even our company president would agree with that assessment.
I've spent my time trying to get everything back on track,
(01:07):
meeting deadlines and getting some more in depth regulatory training
for all of us, and now I'm pleased to say
that the department is significantly improved. We're moving in the
same direction, deadlines are being met. I feel like I
can take a step back and the entire department can
take a breath. And one of your podcasts, The Talkative
(01:29):
Intern from July eight, two thousand eighteen, you talked about
the importance of regular one on one meetings with employees,
and it was like someone turned the lights on for me.
I haven't been doing that. You see, my background is
project management, and this is the first time that I've
managed humans. So I had to do an internet search
(01:54):
about what these meetings should look like, and of course
I started with ask a manager. I literally have no idea.
So I went ahead and started these meetings this week,
even though I'm still fumbling in the dark sum But
I would love your thoughts on what a typical check
in meeting would look like. About how long should it last?
(02:18):
Is there a standard length of time that we should
spend in these meetings? Is there anything that should be
covered in every single meeting with each employee? Is there
a good standard on frequency or does that totally depend
on your staff and your business and what everyone does
and what projects you have going on, etcetera, etcetera. I've
(02:41):
learned so much about managing employees since i started listening
to the podcast and reading your blog, and so I'm
really looking forward to your input on these very important meetings. Thanks.
I'm really excited to get this question because doing check
in meetings well. Doing them well can make a huge
(03:01):
difference and how effectively you're managing your team and how
much your employees themselves feel like they're on track. I
know it might not sound like the most exciting topic
to people listening, but I think it kind of is
because doing these right can be the entire backbone of management.
It's really really key, and so many people don't really
do them effectively if they do them at all. The
(03:24):
idea is that having a regular time to touch base
one and one with each of your staff people about
their work keeps you both focused on the results that
they're getting and creates a place for you to check
on how projects are coming, serve as a resource to them,
agree in priorities, and give feedback. They're really your core
forum for management. They're the primary place where you do
(03:46):
the work of managing. You asked how often to have them.
For most people, meeting weekly works well, but if you
have more experienced staffers, or if you have people whose
work just doesn't require weekly conversation, you could do every
other week most of the time, though I wouldn't do
less frequently than every other week, and usually they're going
(04:06):
to be thirty to sixty minutes somewhere in there. I
would start in the beginning scheduling them for an hour
and see how they go. If you keep finding that
you don't need that much time, you can always cut
them down. And something that's really key is always use
an agenda so that you're both clear ahead of time
and how you're going to be using the time. You
can ask your employee to prepare that agenda and send
(04:29):
it to you ahead of time, and you can ask
that it includes specific sections each week, so things like
a section for key project updates, a section for priorities
for the coming week, a section for items that need
your feedback, a section for anything that the person is
waiting on you for. And then don't just use their agenda,
I mean use it, but add your own things to it.
(04:49):
Jot down your own items that you want to raise,
and actually before the meeting it's a really good idea
to just take a few minutes and kind of reflect,
ask yourself, what are you the most war worried about
as it relates to this person or to their work.
What do you really want to use the time to
focus on. It sounds obvious, but making yourself do that
every time can make sure that you're focusing on the
(05:11):
right things. For example, you might realize one day, Oh,
the thing that I'm most worried about in Jane's realm
is the question of what more we need to do
to generate ticket sales for our upcoming event. So I
want to spend some time with her brainstorming other approaches
we could use. Or you might realize Jane has seemed
kind of off her normally very good game lately, so
(05:34):
I want to ask her if she's doing okay and
if there's anything going on that I can support her with.
So it might be the stuff that you're most worried
about that you most want to talk about, might be
the day to day work, or it might be something
a little bit more big picture when you step back
and really think about it. It's also helpful to keep
a running list throughout the week of things that you
want to raise at the check in, which could be
(05:56):
like a piece of feedback that you want to give,
or a reminder to yourself that the staff person was
supposed to check into topic X, but you haven't heard
any update, and so you want to follow up on
it or so forth. By keeping a running list all
week long, that way, you won't forget anything when the
check in comes around, and you also won't be bugging
people throughout the week about things that can wait for
your time together, and that can be helpful in making
(06:19):
sure that people don't feel like you're sort of hovering.
I would also consider having a section on the agenda
for reflecting on what has gone well recently and what
could have gone better, and you can ask the employee
to bring their own thoughts on that. You can make
it part of the agenda that you're using every week.
You can ask them to come prepared to share their
thoughts on that, and you'll offer your own. And doing
(06:41):
that is so useful because it makes feedback just a normal,
regular part of your meetings, and it's super helpful. When
you normalize feedback like that, it doesn't feel so scary
to people, and you ensure that there's this constant flow
of both positive and developmental feedback, which is a really
awesome thing to have. Now, what you don't what to
do with these meetings is have them turn into just
(07:03):
a big list of project updates where the person just
runs down everything they're working on and where it stands,
and then the meeting ends. The point of these meetings
is not to make the person document where their time
went that week. It's to see how the person is
progressing towards their big goals, ask probing questions, spot any
areas of concern, serve as a resource to them, help
(07:25):
problem solve if needed, help balance priorities, debrief projects, and
give feedback. So make sure that you're not letting these
just turn into like a report on how the person
spent their time in the last week. That's not what
you're doing here. And actually you can even ask people
to include short, bulleted updates in the agenda that they
send you ahead of time, so that you can read
(07:47):
those before the meeting, and then that way that's out
of the way and you can spend your face to
face time on the stuff that really requires conversation. And
then I'm also going to point you to my book
and management, because there is a whole chapter in are
on how to do check in meetings. Well. So the
book is called Managing to Change the World, The Nonprofit
Manager's Guide to Getting Results, and as you can tell
(08:08):
by the title, it is written for nonprofit managers, but
like of what's in there is going to apply in
any sector, so hopefully that will be a good resource too.
We will take a quick break here and come right back. Hi, Alison.
(08:31):
First off, thank you for your great podcast on work
questions in the like. I found myself off in relating
to a lot of the issues that come up in
somewhere or another, and it has definitely helped me navigate
my office culture, so thank you. I wanted to email
you about an issue that has come up often in
my career in regards to doing the right thing. I'm
a late twenties male who has been working in a
technical environment for the entirety of my career. I don't
(08:53):
know if it has just been the companies that I've
worked for, but there seems to be a prevailing issue
of image versus actions in guards to people's behavior when
working in an office environment. When things go wrong, which
they inevitably will, because nobody is perfect, there tends to
be a flurry of finger pointing and claims of innocence
with no accountability of the issue. Accountability has brought up
(09:14):
a lot, and what I mean by accountability is the
person holding themselves accountable for their own quality of work.
I find myself to be a person with integrity who
does not like throwing people under the bus. I will
also readily admit when I have made a mistake. The
thing I have an issue with is that if I'm
the only one who does these things, I end up
looking like a screw up instead of building a reputation
as someone who is honest with themselves. Even worse, those
(09:38):
with machavelli in tendencies can achieve a lot before someone
sees the person behind the curtain if at all, and
will steamroll over people like me if I wait for
the higher ups to quote unquote see through what is happening.
Office environments are full of these types of people who
will kick and claw and tear others down to look
useful to their boss or others. I want to succeed,
(09:58):
but I want to do so honestly, and I want
to earn it. Am I just not cut out for
working in an office. Thanks. I wish I knew what
field you work in, because I don't actually think that
this is typical. There are certainly people everywhere who are
just out for themselves and who are willing to step
on other people in order to advance, but they usually
(10:19):
stand out as pretty unusual. They're not typically the majority
of people in an office, unless you're in a dysfunctional
office or a dysfunctional field. So I'm very curious about
what work you do, because some fields are definitely more
populated by jerks than others. But so often this kind
of behavior is because the organization's culture allows it. You
(10:41):
don't find it in offices that prioritize transparency and integrity
and where leaders are modeling those things themselves. If I
were in your shoes, I would try to get a
read on is this just your industry or have you
worked at particularly bad companies. One way to do that
is to seek out a mentor someone who works in
(11:02):
your field but is a bit more experience than you
and talk to them about what you're seeing. Ask if
they think it's just the nature of the work that
you're doing, or if it sounds off to them, or
if you have friends who also work in your field
at different companies, you can bounce this off them as well.
My hunch is that it's about the companies that you've
been at. You said you're late twenties, so that's probably
(11:25):
something like one to three companies, I'm guessing, and that's
not a huge sample size to draw conclusions based off of.
But certainly by the time you're seeing it for the
third time in a row, you're naturally going to start
to wonder. So talk to someone who's in the same field,
who has a more senior vantage point on it, and
see what they say. But to answer your broader question, no,
(11:46):
this is not just the way offices work. It might
be the way your offices have worked so far, but
it's not a normal thing. So the next time that
your job searching, I would really dig into the culture
of anywhere that you're can that are in taking a job,
and really prioritize cultures that do emphasize transparency and learning
from mistakes, and try to talk to people who work
(12:09):
there before you take your next job so that you
can figure out if it's just going to be the
same thing all over again. And actually, one other thing
that can help with this is having a really good
relationship with your manager. I would really lean into developing that,
like building trust and credibility with your boss, because that
will pay off in two different ways. One, you say
(12:31):
that you feel like being really upfront about your mistakes
is making you look like you're a screw up because
no one else is doing it. But if you have
a really good, strong relationship with your boss, that is
less likely to happen because your boss will know you
and will know that you're very upfront about that kind
of thing, and if they're at all a decent boss,
they should respect or at least understand that. And then
(12:53):
the second way that it can help is if you
develop a good enough for poor with your boss, potentially
you can ask her about this too, and she will
be really well positioned to talk to you with much
more nuanced than I can about what you're seeing in
your company and whether you're reading it right. So I
would really work on building that relationship. Good luck. Okay,
(13:16):
here is our next question. Hi, Alison, thanks so much
for taking my question. I am a teacher who started
a new program with another teacher last year. We worked
together really well and we're generally thought to be successful
by the administrator supervising the program. There is one issue
I had, though, that I'm curious about how you would
(13:36):
suggest I approach. Part of this program requires frequent record
keeping about his progress. One agreement that my colleague and
I came to is that we would split up the
work to make it easier to great students and to
keep up with all the paperwork. However, my colleague often
waited over a month to update his share of the paperwork.
(13:57):
At one point I offered to do it if he
was having trouble peping up with it, but he insisted
that he could do it and wanted to handle it
and didn't want to place an unfair burden on me.
I also feel a little weird about continuing to make
that offer, as I'm worried about gender dynamics. I'm a woman,
he's a man, and I know often in these situations
women get stuck with the clerical work. On the other hand,
(14:19):
to measure our progress, it's important that the records are
kept up to date, and I'd rather do it myself
and have access to the information we need than to
wait for him. We're about to finish our training process,
with our new set of students, and I'm worried about
this happening again once the paperwork increases. The hope and
goal is that our program is going to expand, which
(14:39):
means that the record keeping will only get more intense.
We don't have hard deadlines for this, which I think
maybe makes him feel like it's fine if he puts
it off. However, there is an expectation that we are
keeping our records up to date in a timely fashion.
Am I being a control freak about this? How do
you suggest I approach him about it again? Since the
last time I tried I wasn't successful. I do not
(15:03):
think you're being a control freak about it. It sounds
like the record keeping has to be done. I think
it's good, though, that he did not take you up
in your offer to do it for him, because he
really should be doing it himself, and because you're right
about the gender dynamics where women often step in and
do more than their share of the sort of office
housekeeping type work, because we're socialized to care about it
(15:27):
more and to be bothered by it more when it's
not done, and to be somewhat comfortable with just stepping
up and doing it so that it is done, even
if we're annoyed that we have to do it. So, yeah,
it's not good for anyone when you step in and
do that because someone else isn't pulling their weight. The
exception to that can be if you agree upfront to
(15:49):
divide the work that way, and in exchange he takes
on something roughly equivalent in terms of time and energy
that you would prefer not to do. But even then
you have to be careful that you don't get the
short end of the stick there, because if the thing
that he takes on in exchange is more high profile
or is seen as more valuable, then you're at a disadvantage,
(16:12):
even if you would otherwise be pretty happy with the arrangement.
So it's important to think about that aspect of it too. Anyway,
as far as what to do here, I think you've
got to get really clear in your own mind about
exactly what the impact is on you if he doesn't
do the paperwork in a timely way, if it's mainly
annoying but doesn't actually have a real impact on you
(16:34):
and your ability to do your job. I would try
very hard to let that go, and believe me, I
am all about being annoyed by things that are just
annoying on principle but don't actually affect me. So I
would get it if that was what was happening, But
you would be better off forcing your brain to accept
that it's not your problem to solve. But it doesn't
sound like that's the case from what you're saying. It
(16:56):
sounds like you really do need his records up to
date because need access to that information. If that is correct,
then that's the piece of this to focus on. Now.
When you talk to him last time, it's not clear
to me if you talked through why this is a
problem and how it's impacting you, or if you just
made the offer to take it off his plate. Form.
(17:17):
My hunch is that you might have focused more on
that second piece, just offering to do it, because that
is often what people do. So I would go to
him this time and say something like, you know, last
year I had trouble getting information like X, Y, and
Z because you aren't updating on our records very frequently,
and I really want to be able to do blank.
So can we agree that we'll both update at least
(17:39):
every week or whatever? I'm just making up a time
period there, but whatever makes sense. The idea is to
be really clear about why it matters, what the impact
is if he doesn't do it, so that it doesn't
sound like you just care about paperwork for paperwork's sake.
And I say that because when you're someone who is
really on top of the stuff and you're nudging someone
(18:01):
who isn't, there can be this dynamic where it starts
to feel to both of you like you're just the nag.
You know, you're just nagging the other person to do
some pitoly thing that you only care about because you
love order and you love paperwork. So the more that
you can ground this in the actual impact that it's
having on you or on your students, the better. And
(18:22):
then if he agrees to that but still ends up
not doing it, then you can approach him about it
again at that point and again ground it in the impact.
So at that point you could say something like, hey,
I was looking for X piece of information yesterday and
I couldn't find it. Could you get your records up
to date sometime this week so that I've got access
to that stuff? So again it's not do this because
(18:44):
you're supposed to be on top of it, even though
that's true, it's do this because it's causing this specific
work related issue that we need to take care of.
We'll do one ware break here and come right back.
(19:04):
This next color is someone who wanted to respond to
a previous episode of the show, the episode called My
Boss is a Jerk to Me, where the color on
that show had a boss who was really snippy with
her and constantly seemed frustrated with her. The person we're
about to hear from is a manager who feels like
she's in that situation, but from the boss's side, she
(19:26):
is the boss who is annoyed with her employee. Hi, Allison,
I want to start by saying I just discovered this
podcast and I love it. I have many questions that
I will get to email into you, but I wanted
to start with some feedback from the My Boss is
a Jerk to the episode. While I don't condone being
snappy or short with someone, I have to share that
I'm sharing a sort of similar experience from the boss's side.
(19:49):
I'm sort of a manager slash supervisor to the person
who filled my last position. I've explained many times since
you started, and during the interview process that the site
has not done a good out of documenting job processes.
But I tried documenting as much as I can while
I was doing this position, which was a lot. I'm
pointing her in the direction of those to learn, but
(20:10):
also explaining things that are not documented and encouraging her
to edit the script or create a new one. Take
as many notes as possible so that it makes sense
to you the next time you do it. Review the
notes you took a day or two after you completed
the tests, refer to them when something similar happens. No
matter what, though, I'm getting the same exact questions about
(20:33):
things that are simple and that I would have expected
her to learn by now. One interaction that stands out
to me is that after her return from a vacation day,
she stopped in my office. When she got in and
asked me what I wanted her to do. It wasn't
the end of the month or anything where we would
need to prioritize those activities. I said, she can carry
(20:53):
on with her normal day. When she left my office,
I wanted to screen It's made four months that she
in here. I expect that you have working, know that
you should be doing, and that you as are working professional,
instructured your day around anyway, this is a moment where
I could have been short with her, like the caller's boss,
I just wanted to share the feedback and I look
(21:14):
forward to asking more questions. I really appreciate this Color
sharing this because I think that we don't hear enough
from the manager's side of these types of interactions, and
managers aren't always self aware enough to realize when they
are being short with someone. So it's good that this
person is spotting it. I know this Color isn't asking
(21:35):
for advice, is she's just sharing her perspective, but I
want to offer them anyway. I think as a manager,
when you are at the point where you're really frustrated
with an employee, and definitely when you're at the point
that where you can tell that you're on the verge
of snapping at someone, that's a flag to you that
there's a problem that you have to address. You're the boss,
(21:55):
after all, you say what goes and what doesn't, And
in this case, it sounds like it's tie him to
sit down with her and have a hard conversation. Tell
her that you're concerned that she's not retaining the training
that you've given her, that she's asking the same questions
over and over and that she's not picking up the
job as quickly as you need her to, and ask
her what's going on, because who knows, there may be
(22:17):
something she will share with you that will give you
some context that you didn't have before. But either way,
the important thing is to start talking about it. Let
her know what you need to see her doing differently,
and let her know that the issues are serious ones,
and see if you can come up with a plan
together for how she'll approach the work differently, and that
might help, But if it doesn't help, and sometimes it won't,
(22:39):
then you will know that you have been very upfront
and straightforward and given clear feedback and that she wasn't
able to make the improvements that you said you needed,
And at that point you'll have enough information to conclude
she's not the right person for the job and you
can make a change and get someone in who is
and know that you were upfront and candid with her
(23:00):
and gave her the chance to meet those expectations. But
it sounds like you're at a point where you're really frustrated,
and understandably so, but that you haven't yet done this
step of having the serious conversation and moving toward resolving
it one way or the other. And always when you're
this frustrated, it's a sign that you've got to sit
down and address it, whatever it is that's going on.
(23:22):
Sometimes managers get stuck in the part of the process
where they're seeing the problems and they're frustrated by them,
but they haven't moved on to the part where they
talk about them. You don't want to forget that you're
the manager here and you have the authority, and really,
I would argue the obligation to say, hey, this isn't
going the way that it needs to. Let's sit down
(23:43):
and talk about what's happening and what I need to
see you doing differently. And then if you don't see
those changes, you have the ability to decide that you
need to make a change. And I know that's hard
to do, but it's definitely no kindness to the person,
or to you or to your other employees to stay
my heard in this place where you're really frustrated, with
good reason for that frustration, but not to speak openly
(24:06):
about it anyway. I know that's a lot In response
to a call that was just intended as a comment
on a previous episode, but I wanted to get into
that a little bit because I think that type of
frustration is so common as a manager, and it doesn't
need to be Before we wrap up, I want to
put out a call for office holiday stories. I am
(24:26):
working on an upcoming holiday themed episode, and I want
to include your stories about holidays at work. Gift exchange
has gone terribly wrong, holiday party disasters, the time your
boss got drunk at the Christmas potluck and passed out
on the copier. Whatever funny or weird stories you have
about holidays at work, I want to hear them, and
(24:47):
also any questions that you have about holidays at work,
whether or not to give your boss or your coworkers
a gift, how to get out of working New Year's Eve,
whether you really have to attend the office holiday party,
whatever your one ring about. Send it in. There are
two different ways to submit your stories and questions. You
can record them on the show voicemail by calling eight
(25:08):
five five two six work That is eight five five
four two six nine six seven five, or you can
record a sound file on your phone and just email
it to podcast at aska manager dot org. That is
it for today, Thanks for listening and I will be
back next time with more questions. M
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