December 26, 2018 • 27 mins
Questions about office holiday parties and gift-giving, and stories of times that office holiday celebrations went terribly wrong.
Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.com
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
My colleagues, We'll stop commenting on everything I get people
and meeting. Why does my coworker keep taking credit for
all my ideas? Have any wisdom for me? Hi, I'm
Alison Green. Welcome to the Aska Manager Podcast. Right answer
questions from listeners about life at work, everything from what
to say if you're allergic to your coworkers perfume to
what to do if you drink too much at the
(00:24):
company party. Let's get started. Welcome to the show. Since
it's the end of the year, I thought it would
be interesting to check back with some of the people
who called into the show this year and hear updates
from them about how their situations have turned out. This
is something that I do every December at the Aska
Manager website. The whole month there, I published updates from
(00:46):
people who had their letters answered there that year, and
it's always really interesting to hear whether they took the
advice and how things worked out. So a bunch of
people who called into the show this year were nice
enough to call back in with updates on their situations,
and we're going to hear from them today. Let's go
straight to the first update. Remember the color earlier this
(01:06):
year who didn't have enough to do at work. She
was getting rave reviews from her boss, but she had
a ton of extra time in her hands. And moreover,
she had found herself in that situation at every job
she's had, and she was getting really bored and was
wondering what to do. I advised her to talk to
her boss, lay out the situation and see what came
of that, and that that wouldn't necessarily fix the problem,
(01:28):
but that if nothing else, it would give her a
lot more information about whether this was something that she
could expect to change or not. And then if she
realized through that conversation that it's just the nature of
the job, then she could decide what to do about
that from there. Okay, here is her update. Hi, Allison,
here's my update since we talked. When we had first spoken,
(01:50):
I was feeling really underworked and like I wanted more
challenge at my job, and you've given me a lot
of great advice about that. One of the things that
resulted from that was a really frank conversation with my boss,
and I think that my boss really understands where I'm
coming from. But I don't know that my role working
(02:13):
for a governmental entity is going to be one that's
going to be as intensive as I would maybe like.
And since we spoke, my just the normal cyclical nature
of my job has really picked up around this time
of year, and so I have been busier and I've
been happier because of that. But there have been a
couple of indications to me that things will get better.
(02:36):
One is that I know my boss has had more
of an eye towards giving me more complicated projects since
we had that conversation. And two is that he has
also indicated that there will be some shifting around of
positions in my department in the next year or so,
and that might provide some opportunity for me to, uh
(02:59):
may be advanced my career shifted a little bit, or
at least for some things to get shaken up on
our team that might allow me to take on some
more responsibility. So I think things are moving in a
good direction. I do really like my job, and and
having this busy period has really allowed me to remember
(03:20):
all the things I like about my job because I've
been busy enough to feel engaged. So I feel like
it's a it's a job that I'll probably stay out
for a while. And um, I think it's set a
really good baseline for me to have that really frank
conversation with my boss and to lay all out there
how much capacity I feel like I still have. I
(03:43):
do know that he sees me as a go to person,
and my hope is that as I continue to enthusiastically
take on any new projects when he proposes them, and
to take them on on a regular basis without having
to be asked, that that will position me as more
of a go to person for more interesting side work.
(04:05):
So thank you so much for your advice, and I
really appreciated being on the show. Well that's great. A
frank conversation so often is the answer, And it sounds
like the situation is going pretty well. Sounds like the
colors feeling good about where things are well. This year
we also heard from someone with the opposite problem. Instead
of not having enough work, she had way too much work.
(04:27):
Her workload had exploded, She was buried in work all
the time. She was wondering about how to distinguish being
burned out and just needing a break from being in
a situation that was unfixable and that she needed to leave.
We talked about how to talk to her manager with
the goal of figuring that out, to figure out is
this something where she could get some relief or is
this just the way the situation is going to stay.
(04:48):
And we also talked a bit about her tendencies to
be a bit of a people pleaser to say yes
all the time, when in fact there were cases where
maybe she could be saying no more often. That episode
was called I'm so turned out at work and here
is the update. Hi everyone, here's my update. I took
Allison's advice and talked to my manager. She was receptive
(05:11):
to my feedback and absolutely agreed that my workload is
too great for one person. We spread out some of
my tests to other team members and eliminated some of
the work that didn't make sense for me to be doing.
For a few weeks, it was great. I had a
much better work life balance and was feeling a lot
more positive towards my job. But then we got additional
(05:32):
projects thrown at us, and if anything, I'm working even
more than I was when I initially went on the podcast.
I am overburdened, overwhelmed, and get completely burnt out still.
So despite me being on a fast track to promotion,
I've decided to leave the company I'm currently interviewing, and
I'm hoping that something turns up soon. I am trying
(05:57):
my best to keep a positive attitude at my current job,
and I'm continuing to do the same high quality work
that I've been but my motivation is a little lacking
as far as the people pleasing. This has been a
huge problem for me my entire life, and I've been
working on it. So what I've done was I've just
gotten better at saying no. I evaluate tests and really
(06:18):
think about if they make sense for me to do.
I try to defer them or delegate them if I can,
and if someone pushes back, I explained the reasons why
I at least have my supervisor supportive nos. But it's
difficult and it's something I continue to struggle with, but
it's gotten a lot better. So I appreciate the advice,
(06:38):
and I hope my next update is me telling you
about a new job I got. Thanks. You know, I
get a fair number of updates where the person did
decide to leave the job, and that is not failure.
If you try resolving a situation and you learn from
doing that that things aren't likely to change or aren't
likely to change in a significant way. That is actually
(06:58):
a type of success. It may not be the type
of success you were hoping for, but now you have
the information that you need in order to make good
decisions for yourself. And it sounds like that is what
the scholar did. Okay, remember the episode called I'm Bad
at Taking Feedback from September, the color found that she
wasn't taking criticism very well. She would take it personally
(07:18):
and get defensive, and she worried that she looked angry
or upset when she was getting feedback. We talked about
how to overcome that and take feedback from a calmer,
less defensive place. And here is the update. Hi Alison,
so Um, your advice helped me a lot to think
about how meetings with my boss really just a part
(07:39):
of the job and not take them too personally and
you know, just she mentally prepared for them as something
that's it's going to happen regularly. So I had a
conversation with my boss recently where he asked how he
could be a better manager. I took the opportunity to
talk about positive feedback and how important it is, and
also how the lack of it has kind of affected
me and made me feel like I wasn't doing as
well as maybe other people were. And he agreed that
(08:02):
he didn't give enough positive feedback and said that would
be a change she would try to make. But then
he also went along talk about all the things that
I do really well, which felt really great. And also
I had a job interview not long after that, and
it really helped me to bring up my confidence and
also just know the things that I was doing really well,
um to get my first field job now that I'm
about to finish on my PhD program. Um. Also, he
(08:25):
called in my other coworker, who I also said that
had to feel felt pretty similar to me, and gave
him a bunch of positive feedback and then also told
him he was ready to look for a post doc.
So it actually really helped both of us by giving
him that feedback, and I do truly think he's going
to take that the heart for future student. So um,
thank you so much for your help. That really really
did have a great impact. Hurrah. That is great another
(08:49):
frank conversation, and it paid off. I think so often
people feel like, well, if my manager isn't doing X,
it must be because he or she doesn't want to
do X, that it's a deliberate decision they're making and
so there must be no point in talking to them
about it. But I can tell you from the manager's
side of things, it can be really helpful to hear
from people, Hey, it would help me if you did X,
(09:12):
because as a manager, you don't always know, or maybe
you know at some level that say you're bad at
giving positive feedback or whatever, but you kind of convince
yourself that it's not a big deal. And so hearing
from someone, especially a good employee, that it actually is
something they really care about sometimes that will nudge a
manager into changing what they're doing. So that's a great update,
(09:33):
and kudos to that caller for having the conversation. Let's
take a quick break here and I'll be back with
more updates, including the needy coworker who didn't seem to
be able to do her job after many months of training,
and the chef who was struggling with confidence issues. Remember
(09:57):
the caller way back in March who had an needy
coworker who leaned on her way too much for help.
The episode was called the Helpless Coworker and the coworker,
Jane had been there for nine months and just wasn't
retaining any information and would repeatedly ask the caller for
things they'd already covered multiple times and that the collar
had sent her instructions for. And she also had a
(10:19):
habit of when she had a question, she would go
from person to person in their department and ask everyone,
even though everyone gave her the same answer. They had
talked to their manager about the situation, and the manager
asked them to keep being patient, but it was starting
to take up a lot of time and cause a
lot of frustration. Here is the update. Oh yeah, so
(10:39):
this is my update UM on the day UM that
we recorded the podcast. What I had not told you
at that time was that things had kind of come
to a head where I lost my patient. Jane had
asked me for help via email for something I previously
(11:00):
assisted her with multiple times. I lost my patience, and
I responded in a somewhat snarky manner in an email,
including screenshots and instructions and sort of a little condescending
tone like we've been over this before and you should
(11:20):
know this by now, but here let me tell you
how to do this again. And I made mistake of
copying in my director of our department, thinking that she
would see how ridiculous being had been and was being um. Instead,
my director took issue with the tone of my email,
(11:42):
and I received a linky email back from her about
my behavior and how she basically thought I needed to
be more patient. So, after I talked with you the
next day, of course, you know, i'd also received the
email from my director, I took Jane aside just in
a little I have a little room, and I apologize
(12:02):
to her for the talent of my email and for
anything else tone and behavior previously. I just apologize basically
for not being a patient as I should have been.
So this led to Jane crying and forgiving me. I mean,
she was grateful that we kind of talked and bought
(12:22):
it on the open I provided her. I took that
time to you know, just kind of reassure her, and
I provided her with suggestions. I thought about how she
could handle when she had questions. I suggested that she
sit and think about her questions before going to anybody
and asking and thinking who would be the best person
to answer her questions. So not just going to you know,
(12:47):
everybody one by one in the department when one person
might be the best person to answer the question, and
think about who that would be, and courage her to
continue to take notes and to refer them, referred to
them before going around and asking questions. And she seemed
to take my advice to heart, but she was sent
back to her old ways of just going from person
(13:08):
to person, um asking the same question over and over,
asking questions that she had asked previously, you know, previous
days or weeks, as if she wasn't retaining information or whatever. Um,
she just began aggravating more and more people in our department,
and and then she also sort of branched out to
(13:30):
other departments and did the same thing. It just pretty
much became evident to me that she preferred to have
people handle her cat rather than learn them and take
care of them herself. And it seemed evident to me
and to others that this method of going from person
(13:51):
to person was sort of in hopes that somebody would
be just worn down enough, but they would go, never mind,
I'll just I'll just handle it for you. And I'd
actually had done it a few times. I was just
set up with, oh, here's the same question, again, I've
already explained it to you, you know, w let me
just take care of it. And so I fell into
(14:12):
that trap, and and others did too, and it just
seems like she just preferred to outsource her responsibilities in
that way. So it ended up that in August of
this year, I found another job, and so I don't
have to deal with Jane anymore. And I can honestly say,
(14:34):
when I think back that the reasons why I left
that previous job, I would give it at least ten
percent that getting away from Jane was behind me, you know,
some of the reasons that I wanted to leave. So
that is my updates. Well, that's frustrating. I like that
this color had a frank conversation with the coworker, even
(14:56):
though it didn't ultimately solve the problem. If you do
end up leaving a job because of frustrations, it's so
helpful to know that you did make some attempts at
being straightforward and that you did try to resolve things.
And really, in this case, the problem was with management.
They saw what was happening, they were being overly hands
off about it, which is a super common thing. There
(15:17):
are lots of people who are supposed to be managing
who just don't do it because they don't like hard conversations,
or they don't like dealing with conflict, or they don't
like giving someone bad news, and so they just let
problems fester and eventually good people get frustrated and leave.
I know the caller said she had other reasons for
leaving too, but I would bet that some of them
(15:38):
are about having management that wouldn't do their job, not
just with this coworker, but more broadly too. Managers who
don't manage suck. Let's see who's next. Remember the caller
this fall who was struggling with confidence issues. The episode
was called I Need More Confidence at Work? And the
collar was a chef at a fine dining restaurant and
(15:58):
she would take things very personally when something went wrong,
and she would feel like it was all her fall
and that she must not be very good at her job.
And she was also having trouble speaking up when a
colleague was doing something that impacted her negatively, and she
was wondering how to get better at addressing those things.
Here is the update. Hi Alison, I originally emailed in
(16:19):
a few months ago asking for advice on how to
be more confident at work, and linked to this, how
to address my colleagues more effectively when I needed to
raise an issue with them. It's been something I've worked
on very consciously over the past few months, and I'm
definitely not there yet, but I do think I've come
on leaps and bounds in certain areas. For instance, I've
(16:40):
become really good at taking professional feedback, and this has
been noticed by my boss, who said that he saw
I was really good at listening to the feedback given,
which was a really nice thing to hear. I've also
moved away from taking lots of things personally and just
seeing them more as a work issue, which has also
helped me enormously. Um It's stopped to me overthinking things
(17:02):
too much on my on my time away from the
from the kitchen. I do still struggle sometimes with addressing
members of my team directly when giving them feedback on
their work, even though I'm told this is something I
should do by my boss. But I do think this
has not been helped by a couple of other factors
that have been involved. Recently. We've been hiring a lot
(17:24):
of temp staff um as we've been short staffed um
and so one, I don't have a solid working relationship
with these people UM and to a few of them
have been quite volatile characters, sort of the typical chef UM,
so really not the most approachable people. UM. But I
am working on it, and the people that I do
(17:46):
give direct feedback to, I've been very clear to make
sure that my tone is good and following your advice
in that area as well. One other thing you advised
me to do was to look carefully at how my
coworkers raised issues and topics, and this is definitely something
I've done. UM. I've often mirrored my coworkers phrasing and
tone when they ask about things UM that seemed totally
(18:08):
mature and reasonable to me. So that's really really helped
because it's kind of reinforced that idea of what if
they can do it, I can do it. The advice
you gave me really really helped me. You said gaining
confidence is not an overnight thing, and I completely agree
with that, and internally, if I'm being honest, I do
still feel quite uncertain of my skill set at times.
(18:29):
But I'm looking forward to the new year. I'm hoping
to move on to a different role uh, and see
that as a bit of a fresh start and take
with me the skills that I've gained over this experience.
So thank you so much. I love this update too.
You know, the stuff doesn't change every name. It's a process,
and this color sounds like she's making really good progress.
(18:51):
I especially love that she took the advice about paying
attention to how her coworkers raised the sort of issues
that she herself was hesitant to raise, because so, Ben,
if you feel hesitant to speak up about something, it
will help to look around and watch how other people
do it, because you can get lots of good models
of Oh, this is how you approach it, and this
(19:11):
is the language, and this is the tone, and when
they do it that way, it doesn't come across as
a big deal. It's normal and it's fine. And really
paying attention to that and internalizing that can help you
speak up yourself. And that is that sounds like the
direction that this collar is moving in, which is great.
We'll take a short break and come right back with
more updates, including one from the collar earlier this year
(19:33):
who sat across the hall from a pretty scary dude
and the person with the overly Talkative Intern. Remember the
episode from July called the Talkative Intern. That was the
caller earlier this year who had a really really talkative intern.
(19:57):
A lot of it sounded like the intern was just
over explaining, like she would come in to ask a question,
but she would ask it four different ways, with lots
of commentary on why she didn't know the answer, and
it was to the point where people were avoiding her
a little, and the caller was trying to figure out
how to give the intern feedback about it and get
her to rein it in without embarrassing her. Here is
(20:17):
the update. Hi, Aliston, I was calling to give you
an update on my talkative intern. I took your advice
and at a regular update meeting I had to talk
with her um. I kind of framed it the way
we talked about with UM as being a common issue
for people early in their career and to have faith
(20:41):
in herself that she asked good questions and her questions
are worth asking and she doesn't need to sort of
justify them. The conversation seemed to go well, although I
could tell that she was kind of taken aback and
she over explained why she does that. She seemed to
be putting in an effort, but honestly, there wasn't a
(21:02):
ton of improvement, although it did leave the door open
kind of for me too. I felt more comfortable interrupting
her going forward for the rest of her internship again
say okay, slow down, give me a chance to answer.
And then a couple of months after her internship, I
was at an vatte with some of my colleagues and
(21:23):
someone mentioned how much she talked, and I said, you know, oh,
I had tried to have a conversation with her. I
know it didn't take, but I think she was just
nervous and young. And someone joined in, who uh is
more juniors. She's always been with us about six months,
and she and my intern had been fairly close. They commuted,
(21:45):
they walked part of their commute to work together. And
apparently my my conversation with her didn't not go the
way I thought it did. My intern was completely horrified.
She didn't know what she'd done wrong. She was completely
flustered and didn't know what she should do or what
the problem was. So I don't know if I wasn't
(22:07):
clear or she just sort of panicked, And in talking
to my colleague, I found out that, you know, she
had been talking to her too about how much she
goes into detail and was trying to give her tips about,
you know, making notes and being prepared for meetings and
what you want to say. And I really think it
(22:28):
was just a a factor of how young she was
and how inexperienced she was in an office. But it
was a very good experience for me as a manager
to have that kind of difficult conversation. I have to
think about how I would follow up better in the future.
But I appreciate your help and all the advice that
you gave me, so thank you. Oh this is so interesting.
(22:51):
I love that this collar had the direct, straightforward conversation.
But yeah, this is an example of how stuff doesn't
always land with people the way we're hoping it well.
But that doesn't mean that you did anything wrong. You
could have done this perfectly and she still might have
bristled at it. Sometimes that happens, especially with people early
in their career who might not have a lot of
(23:11):
experience getting direct feedback on stuff like this. The color
mentioned that she wants to think about how she could
follow up differently in the future, and I think one
way to do it is to give the person some
time to process the feedback a few days or a week,
couple of weeks, depending on the context, and then at
some point you can say, I really appreciate you letting
me give you that feedback the other day. Now that
(23:33):
you've had a chance to digest it, does it make
sense to you, or would it be helpful for us
to talk about it further, or in this particular case,
even saying you know, I know it's tough to get
feedback on something like that. I want to make sure
that you know that I think you're doing a great
job and this is just about tweaking something relatively minor
that will be really easy to get under control. So
(23:54):
sort of reassuring her that there's nothing to be horrified about,
that it's routine feedback, nothing to panic over. But yeah,
I think this collar is right, that this was a
function of how inexperienced this employee was, and sometimes the
stuff just happens, and she might look back on the
experienced ten years from now and realized that her manager
did her a favor by having that conversation with her. Okay,
(24:17):
our last update is from a caller who I think
a lot of people were really worried about I was.
The episode was from June and it was called The
Angry Coworker and the Collar sat across the hallway from
a coworker, Chris, who was angry and disruptive. He would
yell obscenities about work to himself and pound on his
desk and paste around his office. The Collar had talked
(24:39):
to her boss about it and they had gone to HR.
HR talked to him, but it hadn't solved it. So
I talked to the co worker, but ways to really
press the issue and insist that it be taken more
seriously because this kind of behavior is scary and disruptive
and it can escalate. Here is the update, Hi, Alison,
I'm calling him an update from my question earlier in
(25:02):
the year. I just wanted to let you know that
I ended up speaking with my manager further about the
situation and really pressing the issue, and she in turn
agreed that Chris's behavior was not acceptable and it was
creating a lot of anxiety intention for me in the workplace,
(25:23):
which was also not acceptable. So she spoke with the
HR individual in my office, who ended up moving Chris
to be almost adjacent to their office. So, although I
don't believe that they have addressed addressed Chris's behavior or
(25:47):
how it impact other people in the workplace, at least
for now, I did realize that I wasn't so comfortable
dealing with it and did press my manager for the too.
How me with speaking with HR, and he has been
moved and so far I have had no further issues
(26:09):
with Chris. Thanks. Well, that's a relief to hear, and
that is another point in favor of having the direct
conversation and coming back and pushing harder. If something is
really important and isn't being addressed in the way that
you need it to be. You wouldn't do that with everything,
of course, but with something that's making you feel unsafe,
(26:30):
you really should. And it worked, so that's a great
outcome in this case. Hopefully they'll they'll take it a
little bit further. Now that he's sitting right across from HR.
He'll either stop or they'll hear it firsthand and be
able to more easily address it. Well, that is the
chow for today. Thank you to everyone who called in
with updates on their situations. It's so interesting to hear
(26:51):
how things played out. I'll be back next week with
more questions the best and
My colleagues, We'll stop commenting on everything I get people
and meeting. Why does my coworker keep taking credit for
all my ideas? Have any wisdom for me? Hi, I'm
Alison Green. Welcome to the Aska Manager Podcast. Right answer
questions from listeners about life at work, everything from what
to say if you're allergic to your coworkers perfume to
what to do if you drink too much at the
(00:24):
company party. Let's get started. Welcome to the show. Since
it's the end of the year, I thought it would
be interesting to check back with some of the people
who called into the show this year and hear updates
from them about how their situations have turned out. This
is something that I do every December at the Aska
Manager website. The whole month there, I published updates from
(00:46):
people who had their letters answered there that year, and
it's always really interesting to hear whether they took the
advice and how things worked out. So a bunch of
people who called into the show this year were nice
enough to call back in with updates on their situations,
and we're going to hear from them today. Let's go
straight to the first update. Remember the color earlier this
(01:06):
year who didn't have enough to do at work. She
was getting rave reviews from her boss, but she had
a ton of extra time in her hands. And moreover,
she had found herself in that situation at every job
she's had, and she was getting really bored and was
wondering what to do. I advised her to talk to
her boss, lay out the situation and see what came
of that, and that that wouldn't necessarily fix the problem,
(01:28):
but that if nothing else, it would give her a
lot more information about whether this was something that she
could expect to change or not. And then if she
realized through that conversation that it's just the nature of
the job, then she could decide what to do about
that from there. Okay, here is her update. Hi, Allison,
here's my update since we talked. When we had first spoken,
(01:50):
I was feeling really underworked and like I wanted more
challenge at my job, and you've given me a lot
of great advice about that. One of the things that
resulted from that was a really frank conversation with my boss,
and I think that my boss really understands where I'm
coming from. But I don't know that my role working
(02:13):
for a governmental entity is going to be one that's
going to be as intensive as I would maybe like.
And since we spoke, my just the normal cyclical nature
of my job has really picked up around this time
of year, and so I have been busier and I've
been happier because of that. But there have been a
couple of indications to me that things will get better.
(02:36):
One is that I know my boss has had more
of an eye towards giving me more complicated projects since
we had that conversation. And two is that he has
also indicated that there will be some shifting around of
positions in my department in the next year or so,
and that might provide some opportunity for me to, uh
(02:59):
may be advanced my career shifted a little bit, or
at least for some things to get shaken up on
our team that might allow me to take on some
more responsibility. So I think things are moving in a
good direction. I do really like my job, and and
having this busy period has really allowed me to remember
(03:20):
all the things I like about my job because I've
been busy enough to feel engaged. So I feel like
it's a it's a job that I'll probably stay out
for a while. And um, I think it's set a
really good baseline for me to have that really frank
conversation with my boss and to lay all out there
how much capacity I feel like I still have. I
(03:43):
do know that he sees me as a go to person,
and my hope is that as I continue to enthusiastically
take on any new projects when he proposes them, and
to take them on on a regular basis without having
to be asked, that that will position me as more
of a go to person for more interesting side work.
(04:05):
So thank you so much for your advice, and I
really appreciated being on the show. Well that's great. A
frank conversation so often is the answer, And it sounds
like the situation is going pretty well. Sounds like the
colors feeling good about where things are well. This year
we also heard from someone with the opposite problem. Instead
of not having enough work, she had way too much work.
(04:27):
Her workload had exploded, She was buried in work all
the time. She was wondering about how to distinguish being
burned out and just needing a break from being in
a situation that was unfixable and that she needed to leave.
We talked about how to talk to her manager with
the goal of figuring that out, to figure out is
this something where she could get some relief or is
this just the way the situation is going to stay.
(04:48):
And we also talked a bit about her tendencies to
be a bit of a people pleaser to say yes
all the time, when in fact there were cases where
maybe she could be saying no more often. That episode
was called I'm so turned out at work and here
is the update. Hi everyone, here's my update. I took
Allison's advice and talked to my manager. She was receptive
(05:11):
to my feedback and absolutely agreed that my workload is
too great for one person. We spread out some of
my tests to other team members and eliminated some of
the work that didn't make sense for me to be doing.
For a few weeks, it was great. I had a
much better work life balance and was feeling a lot
more positive towards my job. But then we got additional
(05:32):
projects thrown at us, and if anything, I'm working even
more than I was when I initially went on the podcast.
I am overburdened, overwhelmed, and get completely burnt out still.
So despite me being on a fast track to promotion,
I've decided to leave the company I'm currently interviewing, and
I'm hoping that something turns up soon. I am trying
(05:57):
my best to keep a positive attitude at my current job,
and I'm continuing to do the same high quality work
that I've been but my motivation is a little lacking
as far as the people pleasing. This has been a
huge problem for me my entire life, and I've been
working on it. So what I've done was I've just
gotten better at saying no. I evaluate tests and really
(06:18):
think about if they make sense for me to do.
I try to defer them or delegate them if I can,
and if someone pushes back, I explained the reasons why
I at least have my supervisor supportive nos. But it's
difficult and it's something I continue to struggle with, but
it's gotten a lot better. So I appreciate the advice,
(06:38):
and I hope my next update is me telling you
about a new job I got. Thanks. You know, I
get a fair number of updates where the person did
decide to leave the job, and that is not failure.
If you try resolving a situation and you learn from
doing that that things aren't likely to change or aren't
likely to change in a significant way. That is actually
(06:58):
a type of success. It may not be the type
of success you were hoping for, but now you have
the information that you need in order to make good
decisions for yourself. And it sounds like that is what
the scholar did. Okay, remember the episode called I'm Bad
at Taking Feedback from September, the color found that she
wasn't taking criticism very well. She would take it personally
(07:18):
and get defensive, and she worried that she looked angry
or upset when she was getting feedback. We talked about
how to overcome that and take feedback from a calmer,
less defensive place. And here is the update. Hi Alison,
so Um, your advice helped me a lot to think
about how meetings with my boss really just a part
(07:39):
of the job and not take them too personally and
you know, just she mentally prepared for them as something
that's it's going to happen regularly. So I had a
conversation with my boss recently where he asked how he
could be a better manager. I took the opportunity to
talk about positive feedback and how important it is, and
also how the lack of it has kind of affected
me and made me feel like I wasn't doing as
well as maybe other people were. And he agreed that
(08:02):
he didn't give enough positive feedback and said that would
be a change she would try to make. But then
he also went along talk about all the things that
I do really well, which felt really great. And also
I had a job interview not long after that, and
it really helped me to bring up my confidence and
also just know the things that I was doing really well,
um to get my first field job now that I'm
about to finish on my PhD program. Um. Also, he
(08:25):
called in my other coworker, who I also said that
had to feel felt pretty similar to me, and gave
him a bunch of positive feedback and then also told
him he was ready to look for a post doc.
So it actually really helped both of us by giving
him that feedback, and I do truly think he's going
to take that the heart for future student. So um,
thank you so much for your help. That really really
did have a great impact. Hurrah. That is great another
(08:49):
frank conversation, and it paid off. I think so often
people feel like, well, if my manager isn't doing X,
it must be because he or she doesn't want to
do X, that it's a deliberate decision they're making and
so there must be no point in talking to them
about it. But I can tell you from the manager's
side of things, it can be really helpful to hear
from people, Hey, it would help me if you did X,
(09:12):
because as a manager, you don't always know, or maybe
you know at some level that say you're bad at
giving positive feedback or whatever, but you kind of convince
yourself that it's not a big deal. And so hearing
from someone, especially a good employee, that it actually is
something they really care about sometimes that will nudge a
manager into changing what they're doing. So that's a great update,
(09:33):
and kudos to that caller for having the conversation. Let's
take a quick break here and I'll be back with
more updates, including the needy coworker who didn't seem to
be able to do her job after many months of training,
and the chef who was struggling with confidence issues. Remember
(09:57):
the caller way back in March who had an needy
coworker who leaned on her way too much for help.
The episode was called the Helpless Coworker and the coworker,
Jane had been there for nine months and just wasn't
retaining any information and would repeatedly ask the caller for
things they'd already covered multiple times and that the collar
had sent her instructions for. And she also had a
(10:19):
habit of when she had a question, she would go
from person to person in their department and ask everyone,
even though everyone gave her the same answer. They had
talked to their manager about the situation, and the manager
asked them to keep being patient, but it was starting
to take up a lot of time and cause a
lot of frustration. Here is the update. Oh yeah, so
(10:39):
this is my update UM on the day UM that
we recorded the podcast. What I had not told you
at that time was that things had kind of come
to a head where I lost my patient. Jane had
asked me for help via email for something I previously
(11:00):
assisted her with multiple times. I lost my patience, and
I responded in a somewhat snarky manner in an email,
including screenshots and instructions and sort of a little condescending
tone like we've been over this before and you should
(11:20):
know this by now, but here let me tell you
how to do this again. And I made mistake of
copying in my director of our department, thinking that she
would see how ridiculous being had been and was being um. Instead,
my director took issue with the tone of my email,
(11:42):
and I received a linky email back from her about
my behavior and how she basically thought I needed to
be more patient. So, after I talked with you the
next day, of course, you know, i'd also received the
email from my director, I took Jane aside just in
a little I have a little room, and I apologize
(12:02):
to her for the talent of my email and for
anything else tone and behavior previously. I just apologize basically
for not being a patient as I should have been.
So this led to Jane crying and forgiving me. I mean,
she was grateful that we kind of talked and bought
(12:22):
it on the open I provided her. I took that
time to you know, just kind of reassure her, and
I provided her with suggestions. I thought about how she
could handle when she had questions. I suggested that she
sit and think about her questions before going to anybody
and asking and thinking who would be the best person
to answer her questions. So not just going to you know,
(12:47):
everybody one by one in the department when one person
might be the best person to answer the question, and
think about who that would be, and courage her to
continue to take notes and to refer them, referred to
them before going around and asking questions. And she seemed
to take my advice to heart, but she was sent
back to her old ways of just going from person
(13:08):
to person, um asking the same question over and over,
asking questions that she had asked previously, you know, previous
days or weeks, as if she wasn't retaining information or whatever. Um,
she just began aggravating more and more people in our department,
and and then she also sort of branched out to
(13:30):
other departments and did the same thing. It just pretty
much became evident to me that she preferred to have
people handle her cat rather than learn them and take
care of them herself. And it seemed evident to me
and to others that this method of going from person
(13:51):
to person was sort of in hopes that somebody would
be just worn down enough, but they would go, never mind,
I'll just I'll just handle it for you. And I'd
actually had done it a few times. I was just
set up with, oh, here's the same question, again, I've
already explained it to you, you know, w let me
just take care of it. And so I fell into
(14:12):
that trap, and and others did too, and it just
seems like she just preferred to outsource her responsibilities in
that way. So it ended up that in August of
this year, I found another job, and so I don't
have to deal with Jane anymore. And I can honestly say,
(14:34):
when I think back that the reasons why I left
that previous job, I would give it at least ten
percent that getting away from Jane was behind me, you know,
some of the reasons that I wanted to leave. So
that is my updates. Well, that's frustrating. I like that
this color had a frank conversation with the coworker, even
(14:56):
though it didn't ultimately solve the problem. If you do
end up leaving a job because of frustrations, it's so
helpful to know that you did make some attempts at
being straightforward and that you did try to resolve things.
And really, in this case, the problem was with management.
They saw what was happening, they were being overly hands
off about it, which is a super common thing. There
(15:17):
are lots of people who are supposed to be managing
who just don't do it because they don't like hard conversations,
or they don't like dealing with conflict, or they don't
like giving someone bad news, and so they just let
problems fester and eventually good people get frustrated and leave.
I know the caller said she had other reasons for
leaving too, but I would bet that some of them
(15:38):
are about having management that wouldn't do their job, not
just with this coworker, but more broadly too. Managers who
don't manage suck. Let's see who's next. Remember the caller
this fall who was struggling with confidence issues. The episode
was called I Need More Confidence at Work? And the
collar was a chef at a fine dining restaurant and
(15:58):
she would take things very personally when something went wrong,
and she would feel like it was all her fall
and that she must not be very good at her job.
And she was also having trouble speaking up when a
colleague was doing something that impacted her negatively, and she
was wondering how to get better at addressing those things.
Here is the update. Hi Alison, I originally emailed in
(16:19):
a few months ago asking for advice on how to
be more confident at work, and linked to this, how
to address my colleagues more effectively when I needed to
raise an issue with them. It's been something I've worked
on very consciously over the past few months, and I'm
definitely not there yet, but I do think I've come
on leaps and bounds in certain areas. For instance, I've
(16:40):
become really good at taking professional feedback, and this has
been noticed by my boss, who said that he saw
I was really good at listening to the feedback given,
which was a really nice thing to hear. I've also
moved away from taking lots of things personally and just
seeing them more as a work issue, which has also
helped me enormously. Um It's stopped to me overthinking things
(17:02):
too much on my on my time away from the
from the kitchen. I do still struggle sometimes with addressing
members of my team directly when giving them feedback on
their work, even though I'm told this is something I
should do by my boss. But I do think this
has not been helped by a couple of other factors
that have been involved. Recently. We've been hiring a lot
(17:24):
of temp staff um as we've been short staffed um
and so one, I don't have a solid working relationship
with these people UM and to a few of them
have been quite volatile characters, sort of the typical chef UM,
so really not the most approachable people. UM. But I
am working on it, and the people that I do
(17:46):
give direct feedback to, I've been very clear to make
sure that my tone is good and following your advice
in that area as well. One other thing you advised
me to do was to look carefully at how my
coworkers raised issues and topics, and this is definitely something
I've done. UM. I've often mirrored my coworkers phrasing and
tone when they ask about things UM that seemed totally
(18:08):
mature and reasonable to me. So that's really really helped
because it's kind of reinforced that idea of what if
they can do it, I can do it. The advice
you gave me really really helped me. You said gaining
confidence is not an overnight thing, and I completely agree
with that, and internally, if I'm being honest, I do
still feel quite uncertain of my skill set at times.
(18:29):
But I'm looking forward to the new year. I'm hoping
to move on to a different role uh, and see
that as a bit of a fresh start and take
with me the skills that I've gained over this experience.
So thank you so much. I love this update too.
You know, the stuff doesn't change every name. It's a process,
and this color sounds like she's making really good progress.
(18:51):
I especially love that she took the advice about paying
attention to how her coworkers raised the sort of issues
that she herself was hesitant to raise, because so, Ben,
if you feel hesitant to speak up about something, it
will help to look around and watch how other people
do it, because you can get lots of good models
of Oh, this is how you approach it, and this
(19:11):
is the language, and this is the tone, and when
they do it that way, it doesn't come across as
a big deal. It's normal and it's fine. And really
paying attention to that and internalizing that can help you
speak up yourself. And that is that sounds like the
direction that this collar is moving in, which is great.
We'll take a short break and come right back with
more updates, including one from the collar earlier this year
(19:33):
who sat across the hall from a pretty scary dude
and the person with the overly Talkative Intern. Remember the
episode from July called the Talkative Intern. That was the
caller earlier this year who had a really really talkative intern.
(19:57):
A lot of it sounded like the intern was just
over explaining, like she would come in to ask a question,
but she would ask it four different ways, with lots
of commentary on why she didn't know the answer, and
it was to the point where people were avoiding her
a little, and the caller was trying to figure out
how to give the intern feedback about it and get
her to rein it in without embarrassing her. Here is
(20:17):
the update. Hi, Aliston, I was calling to give you
an update on my talkative intern. I took your advice
and at a regular update meeting I had to talk
with her um. I kind of framed it the way
we talked about with UM as being a common issue
for people early in their career and to have faith
(20:41):
in herself that she asked good questions and her questions
are worth asking and she doesn't need to sort of
justify them. The conversation seemed to go well, although I
could tell that she was kind of taken aback and
she over explained why she does that. She seemed to
be putting in an effort, but honestly, there wasn't a
(21:02):
ton of improvement, although it did leave the door open
kind of for me too. I felt more comfortable interrupting
her going forward for the rest of her internship again
say okay, slow down, give me a chance to answer.
And then a couple of months after her internship, I
was at an vatte with some of my colleagues and
(21:23):
someone mentioned how much she talked, and I said, you know, oh,
I had tried to have a conversation with her. I
know it didn't take, but I think she was just
nervous and young. And someone joined in, who uh is
more juniors. She's always been with us about six months,
and she and my intern had been fairly close. They commuted,
(21:45):
they walked part of their commute to work together. And
apparently my my conversation with her didn't not go the
way I thought it did. My intern was completely horrified.
She didn't know what she'd done wrong. She was completely
flustered and didn't know what she should do or what
the problem was. So I don't know if I wasn't
(22:07):
clear or she just sort of panicked, And in talking
to my colleague, I found out that, you know, she
had been talking to her too about how much she
goes into detail and was trying to give her tips about,
you know, making notes and being prepared for meetings and
what you want to say. And I really think it
(22:28):
was just a a factor of how young she was
and how inexperienced she was in an office. But it
was a very good experience for me as a manager
to have that kind of difficult conversation. I have to
think about how I would follow up better in the future.
But I appreciate your help and all the advice that
you gave me, so thank you. Oh this is so interesting.
(22:51):
I love that this collar had the direct, straightforward conversation.
But yeah, this is an example of how stuff doesn't
always land with people the way we're hoping it well.
But that doesn't mean that you did anything wrong. You
could have done this perfectly and she still might have
bristled at it. Sometimes that happens, especially with people early
in their career who might not have a lot of
(23:11):
experience getting direct feedback on stuff like this. The color
mentioned that she wants to think about how she could
follow up differently in the future, and I think one
way to do it is to give the person some
time to process the feedback a few days or a week,
couple of weeks, depending on the context, and then at
some point you can say, I really appreciate you letting
me give you that feedback the other day. Now that
(23:33):
you've had a chance to digest it, does it make
sense to you, or would it be helpful for us
to talk about it further, or in this particular case,
even saying you know, I know it's tough to get
feedback on something like that. I want to make sure
that you know that I think you're doing a great
job and this is just about tweaking something relatively minor
that will be really easy to get under control. So
(23:54):
sort of reassuring her that there's nothing to be horrified about,
that it's routine feedback, nothing to panic over. But yeah,
I think this collar is right, that this was a
function of how inexperienced this employee was, and sometimes the
stuff just happens, and she might look back on the
experienced ten years from now and realized that her manager
did her a favor by having that conversation with her. Okay,
(24:17):
our last update is from a caller who I think
a lot of people were really worried about I was.
The episode was from June and it was called The
Angry Coworker and the Collar sat across the hallway from
a coworker, Chris, who was angry and disruptive. He would
yell obscenities about work to himself and pound on his
desk and paste around his office. The Collar had talked
(24:39):
to her boss about it and they had gone to HR.
HR talked to him, but it hadn't solved it. So
I talked to the co worker, but ways to really
press the issue and insist that it be taken more
seriously because this kind of behavior is scary and disruptive
and it can escalate. Here is the update, Hi, Alison,
I'm calling him an update from my question earlier in
(25:02):
the year. I just wanted to let you know that
I ended up speaking with my manager further about the
situation and really pressing the issue, and she in turn
agreed that Chris's behavior was not acceptable and it was
creating a lot of anxiety intention for me in the workplace,
(25:23):
which was also not acceptable. So she spoke with the
HR individual in my office, who ended up moving Chris
to be almost adjacent to their office. So, although I
don't believe that they have addressed addressed Chris's behavior or
(25:47):
how it impact other people in the workplace, at least
for now, I did realize that I wasn't so comfortable
dealing with it and did press my manager for the too.
How me with speaking with HR, and he has been
moved and so far I have had no further issues
(26:09):
with Chris. Thanks. Well, that's a relief to hear, and
that is another point in favor of having the direct
conversation and coming back and pushing harder. If something is
really important and isn't being addressed in the way that
you need it to be. You wouldn't do that with everything,
of course, but with something that's making you feel unsafe,
(26:30):
you really should. And it worked, so that's a great
outcome in this case. Hopefully they'll they'll take it a
little bit further. Now that he's sitting right across from HR.
He'll either stop or they'll hear it firsthand and be
able to more easily address it. Well, that is the
chow for today. Thank you to everyone who called in
with updates on their situations. It's so interesting to hear
(26:51):
how things played out. I'll be back next week with
more questions the best and
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!