December 12, 2018 • 29 mins
Will you ever find a job you like, what to do when you're asked to report on your boss, and more.
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
My colleagues. We'll stop commenting on everything I get my
assistant eyes at people and meeting. Why does my coworker
keep taking credit for all my idea? Have any wisdom
for me? Hi, I'm Alison Green. Welcome to the Aska
Manager Podcast, where I answer questions from listeners about life
at work, everything from what to say if you're allergic
to your coworkers perfume to what to do if you
drink too much at the company party. Let's get started, Hi,
(00:28):
and welcome to the show. Today. We have a bunch
of interesting questions to tackle, including someone who has an
ethical dilemma, someone who isn't sure how to answer a
question that she keeps getting at new jobs, someone who's
pregnant and has coworkers who are being strange, and more.
This first question is from someone who is wondering if
(00:48):
she'll ever have any job that she likes. Hi, Allison,
I wrote a rambling letter to your blog a while ago,
and when I was incredibly stressed out and floundering at
my new job. I managed to work myself out of
that immediate deep hole. But I'm still struggling with being
happy at work while I feel like the malfunctions I'm
dealing with in my current job are reason enough to leave.
There's a part of me that wonders, will I ever
(01:09):
like any job I hold. I spent my twenties either
hating my office like jobs or pursuing a more creative career,
only to realize I didn't like it and I wasn't
really that good at it. I told myself that I
should stick with what I'm good at, which are more
technical minded roles, but um with project management and process
improvements sprinkled in there, and that I need to find
out how to balance the good and bad with work.
(01:32):
At thirty, I started a decent job and quickly got
a promotion, but the company laid off workers earlier this
year due to losing a major client, so I decided
to look elsewhere. Not to mention that the culture there
was pretty negative all the time. I thought the job
I started in April would be better, but my manager
is terrible and the leadership of my team and department
is very poor. Not to mention I'm drowning in work
(01:54):
and can't stop stressing about it all the time. I
have a tendency to care too much about work and
second guest myself. It's also really difficult for me to
just ignore things that can be improved at work, which
I think drains me. I'm having trouble looking for a
new job again because I'm terrified I'm putting all this
effort in just to hate my job again. I started
working with a career coach to help me figure out
what it is I want to do with my career.
(02:17):
But I'm still concerned that I'm just not going to
like any job that I go to. So my question is,
how can I like my job when there's always going
to be things I don't like about it? How can
I leave work at work and not stress about it
all the time? Well? I think there are a few
different possibilities here. One is that you are in the
wrong field. You know, you picked work that you're good at,
(02:39):
but that doesn't mean that you like that work. And
it's okay to not want to spend forty hours a
week or more doing something just because you happen to
be good at it. I mean, I might spend some
time thinking about the parts of your jobs that you
have actually enjoyed, not just we're good at, but really
felt good about doing, and it might not be an
obvious field like project management, may be something small like, oh,
(03:01):
I've really enjoyed talking new clients through our services and
how we'll work together, or oh, I love the days
when I get to work totally alone with data and
don't have to talk to anyone, or who knows what.
But if there's anything at all in the jobs that
you've had in the last decade that you did enjoy
or at least didn't dislike, think about those things and
see if it leads you anywhere. Because it's possible that
(03:24):
you were overly practical when you chose this field, and
that you've got a course correct by really leaning into
the stuff that you like. And you mentioned you're talking
to a career counselor, and I'm sure they're going into
that stuff with you. The second possibility is that your
field is fine, but you're picking the wrong jobs. And
this one might be something that the career counselor doesn't
(03:46):
get into so much. But I think it's really worth
thinking about because it's really really common. How much due
diligence are you doing when you accept a job? Are
you just kind of accepting any job that gets offered
to you, which a lot of people do, or are
you really interviewing employers as much as they interview you,
you know, doing research on what it's like to work there,
(04:06):
and picking really, really carefully. Most people do it the
first way, not the second way, And honestly, sometimes people
don't have the luxury of doing it the second way.
I mean, sometimes you just need a job, period, and
you don't have the option of being picky. But when
you're not selective about what jobs you take, you're much
more likely to end up in a situation where you
(04:28):
don't like your job, where the boss is horrible, or
the culture sucks, or the workload is overwhelming or so forth.
So before you conclude that you hate your field or
that you just will never like a job at all,
i'd really reflect on how much vetting you've done of
your jobs before you've taken them. If the answer is
(04:48):
very little, then I think it would be premature to
assume that the problem is the field or that the
problem is you. In that case, the thing I would
try next is to start being much more deliberate and
careful about vetting the next job, which also includes vetting
the boss, because there's often red flags in the interview
process that people either don't notice or don't pay enough
(05:09):
attention to and often it's because you just get focused
on getting a job offer and you lose sight of
the fact that interviewing should be a two way street
where you're assessing the company right back. So that means
really paying attention to cuse that you get about culture
and about management style, and it also means going outside
of the formal interview process to get information about how
(05:31):
things really work there, the stuff you might not be
able to find out in an interview. Linked In can
be really helpful in this because you can see if
anyone in your network is connected to anyone who works
there or used to work there and might be able
to give you the inside scoop. It doesn't even have
to be people's first degree connections. It could be second
or third degree connections, like if your old co worker
(05:53):
is connected to someone who's connected to someone who's connected
to the company you're working for, there's a good source
of info. And especially if they don't work there anymore,
people are often more willing to give you real candid information.
I actually think that is one of the best uses
of LinkedIn. UM. I mean LinkedIn is is also very
helpful as sort of an automatically updated rolodex for everyone
(06:15):
you've ever worked with. And I think this is the
other way that it's super helpful. Obviously, some people also
find LinkedIn very helpful for recruiting and finding jobs, but
a lot of people don't, and for those people, this
is the value that Lincoln can bring to you. Okay,
So Possibility one is that you're in the wrong field.
Possibility too is that your field is fine, but you
(06:35):
need to vet jobs more carefully before you take them.
Possibility three is that, yes, it is something that you
are bringing to the situation. You said you have a
tendency to care about work too much and to have
trouble ignoring things that work that could be improved, and
that that drains you. And you are right that there
will always be things that a job that you don't
(06:56):
like and for people who tend to care to uma,
which it can be hard sometimes to know where the
line is between. Yeah, this is an ideal, but it's
not a huge problem and I can live with it,
versus this is truly toxic and I should get out.
One way to help calibrate it is to look at
what people around you think. If you have some coworkers
(07:19):
who seem generally reasonable and they have good judgment and
are reasonably accomplished. What's their take. Are they like, run
for the hills while you have the chance, or are
they more like, Yeah, it's a little annoying, but not
a big deal. That doesn't mean that you always have
to feel like other people around you feel, And frankly,
a really dysfinctional workplace can warp your sense of what's normal,
(07:41):
So there can be danger in relying too much on
the opinions of other people. But it is one data
point to look at. The other thing to look at
is what the impact is on you. If something at
work is bugging you, is it bugging you in principle
because you think something should be running better, or is
it having an actual direct impact on your ability to
(08:03):
do your job and on your quality of life. If
it's just annoying you on principle because someone is wrong
or because you would handle something differently, I mean, believe me,
I get that that stuff. I'm like the Queen of
being annoyed on principle, but at the point where it's
affecting your mental quality of life even though the work
thing itself is not impacting your quality of life. That
(08:25):
stuff I would work and letting go. You know, they're
presumably not paying you to care more about that stuff
than they do, and it's okay to decide I'm at
work to do this very specific job that they're paying
me for, and I don't have to care about things
outside of that scope because someone else is handling that,
even if they're handling it differently than I think they should,
(08:47):
And there can be real relief and even liberation in
just deciding to care less. On the other hand, though,
if the things that you are bothered by are directly
affecting you, and you mentioned drowning and work, and that
would certainly qualify, that's different. Those are cases where I
think you should explore whether there are solutions that would
(09:08):
improve things for you, like in the case of an
overwhelming workload, talking to your boss about prioritizing what's on
your plate and potentially moving things off of it. If
that doesn't work, then you know that this is part
of the package of having this job, and you can
decide from there if it works for you or not.
But I think getting real clarity on what doesn't doesn't
affect you and very deliberately choosing not to focus on
(09:30):
the stuff that doesn't may help you get clearer about
what's really going on here. It's hard to say for
sure with the limited info that I have, but these
are the places that I would start digging into. Okay,
next letter, Hi Alison, I'm not sure how to answer
some questions from my colleagues after I started a new
job Boston Times. I will have just started a week
(09:52):
or two or even a month in and I'm always asked,
what do you think about this place? How do you
like it here? Or even more phlammic thing, do you
like your new job here? I know that my colleagues
are coming from a good place and I want to
get along with them, but I don't want to sound
or say anything off putting or alienating. Do you have
any suggestions on how to answer this type of question?
(10:16):
Thank you so much. In the vast majority of cases,
this question is really similar to how are you, and
that people are saying it to be warm and polite
and are expecting you to complete the exchange by saying
something warm and polite in return. They're just looking for
you to say something like, oh, I'm getting settled in
(10:36):
everyone seems great so far, or so far so good,
or you know, there's a lot to learn, but I'm
really enjoying it. They are not usually looking for anything
beyond that, like a confession that you're overwhelmed or second
guessing your decision to take the job, or that you
have some real doubts about the boss. And if someone
is looking for that kind of answer and they're not
(10:58):
your boss, that is often going to be someone who
is into drama, and you don't want to feed that. Now.
I said if they're not your boss, because this is
different when your boss is the one doing the asking.
With your boss, there is more room to have a
real conversation, like if there's more training that you need,
or the job doesn't seem like what you signed up for,
or you need clarity about something. Those are things that
(11:20):
you can definitely discuss with your boss in response to
this question. But with everyone else, they're usually just trying
to be warm and welcoming and to connect with you
in some way, and so you just respond in kind
with something like so far, so good, and then you
can keep the conversation going if you want, by asking
things like how long have you been here? And tell
me more about the work that you do and things
(11:41):
like that. Most people like to talk about themselves, and
you can build relationships through those conversations. We're gonna go
to a quick break here and come right back. Accepted
a job for a little over six months ago at
(12:02):
a rapidly growing startup company. At the time, my role
was intended to serve under a senior manager to help
with the high volume of work. At the time, the
pace seemed a little low, but I was desperate for
a new job and accepted without negotiating. However, not even
halfway through my time at this company, the senior manager
left and I was given her entire workload. While I
(12:23):
was stressed for to say the least, I set up
to the plate and make sure everything continued to run smoothly.
I was thanked immensely for my hard work, but not
offered a raise or promotion. Here we are a few
months later. My company has hired a second person to
share responsibility with my assigned tasks, but I'm still swamped.
I've been told numerous times that I will will receive
(12:44):
a performance review once HR finalizes their new initiative for
raises and promotions, but I'm growing frustrated. What has really
triggered my dissatisfaction was recently finding out that co op
students my company has hired this quarter are getting paid
more than me. I've gone ahead and address my workload
as well as salary concerns with my manager, who cannot
(13:05):
make any promises about when and how this will be resolved.
Is there anything further I can do? Thanks? Maybe there
are definitely things you should try first. I want to
say that in general, in most cases, you wouldn't normally
ask for a raise until you've been there for a year,
even if you realize that you should have negotiated better
when the offer was made. Once you agree to a salary,
(13:27):
the understanding is generally that you're agreeing to work at
that salary for a period of time, and usually it's
going to look off if you ask for the salary
to be revisited sooner than a year. But there are
some exceptions to that, and this is one of them,
because when your job changes significantly from the one that
you accepted, it's reasonable to revisit compensation at that point.
(13:48):
If you were really given your manager's entire workload, that
is a huge change, and that is a reason to
revisit how much you're making now. You said that you
have been told a bunch of times that you will
get a performance of you at some point once HR
finalizes some processes. But the performance review isn't really the
issue here. I mean, yes, let's get you a performance
review if you want one, but the more important thing
(14:11):
right now is the salary. And you're still being paid
for this previous, more junior version of the job rather
than for the significantly increased amount of responsibility that you've
taken on. You don't need a performance review for them
to correct your salary. So I don't want you to
play into that idea because that is making it more
complicated than it needs to be. So what I think
(14:32):
you should do is go to your boss and say,
you know, I understand that HR is in the middle
of new processes for raises and promotions, but I want
to request that my salary be addressed now. I was
happy to help out when Jane left and to pick
up her workload, but it's been several months since I've
been doing her work as well as my own and
shouldering significantly more responsibility than the job that I was
(14:52):
brought on to do. And I'd like my salary to
reflect the way the job has changed. Can we adjust
my salary now to reflect that the work I'm doing
now is different than what I was brought into do.
If your boss tells you that yes, it will happen
at some point, but doesn't say when, then you can
try to pin that down a little more. You can
(15:13):
say something like, I'd like to get a more solid
timeline in place for this, because it's been several months.
What do we need to do to get this addressed?
And frankly, you can also say, I am concerned that
the co op students we've hired are being paid more
than me given our relative contributions, and I'd like to
correct that. But if that doesn't produce any results, then
(15:34):
at that point there isn't much more pushing you can do,
and so you would have to decide if you're willing
to stay in the job at this level of pay
or if you want to look elsewhere. And it's also
possible if they do come through with a raise at
some point, you can push them to make it retroactive
so that it covers this period. Some companies will do that,
some won't, but it's you can definitely ask one caveat
(15:57):
to all of this, though, and it's important you did
say that they hired someone else to help with the workload.
So if your workload is now just a bit higher
than before, that isn't something that I would make this
strong of a pushover workloads change, and that is just
how it goes. And in that case, you can't be
quite this aggressive coming at it from a place of
(16:18):
of course they need to fix this, but if you've
really taken over most of your old manager's job, then
go for it. And one other thing which won't help
you now but might help in the future. I totally
get that when you get offered a job and you're
feeling desperate, it's very tempting to just accept without trying
to negotiate salary. But it almost always does make sense
(16:39):
to ask for more. I mean, there are some situations
where it doesn't like if they met or exceeded the
amount that you said you were looking for, or if
the offer is already really generous for your field, or
if you know that salaries for this role are fixed
and they don't negotiate, But in most cases it does
make sense to see if you can get a little
bit more because you can often get a lot more
(17:00):
money just by asking for it at that point, and
it typically will never be as easy to get a
raise later on as it is to get a higher
salary during the offer negotiation process. So even when you're
feeling desperate, don't let that be a reason not to ask. Okay,
next letter, I'm calling because I have a bit of
(17:22):
an ethical flamma that I started having to say a
work recently, and I was wondering if you could help
me out. I worked for a conglomerate of doctors, so
the hierarchy within the offices or office is very different
than a normal corporate work environment. But recently, my supervisor
(17:44):
has asked that me and my fellow co workers in
the same position in our office and the other offices
that we work with, reports weekly about the doctors and
residents when they are coming into the office in the morning.
So it's it's it's very confusing, um because the doctors
(18:08):
that we work with, some of them are specialists, and
it's not those ones that we have to report about,
but it's the doctors that we work with every day.
They are the doctors who would be our immediate supervisors
and We were told when we were asked to do
this that they didn't want any of it in writing.
So my supervisor came out to all of our locations,
(18:30):
came out to us on location and told us and
said that it was just her and the CIO that
wanted uh disinformation, and that we were not to tell
anybody about it. Not really to discuss it, but it
just it troubled me that they're asking for documentation about
our supervisors are like quasi supervisors arrival times, but they
(18:55):
also want no written record of this, and I just
feel like it's a very strange ethical Blaman, I was
hoping you could help. Oh, this is interesting. So there
are very legitimate reasons that they could be asking you
to do this. They could have gotten reports from patients
or from other people that doctors aren't there when they're
(19:16):
supposed to be. They could be in a position where
they're genuinely concerned that doctors aren't there when they need
to be, but they're not in sight to see it
for themselves, and so they're asking the people who are
to let them know what's going on. This isn't the
best way for them to handle it, because of course
it's going to make you and your coworkers feel uncomfortable. Ideally,
(19:36):
they would just talk to the doctors directly about what's
going on. But maybe they've done that and it's still unresolved.
We don't know. In that case, Ideally they then talk
to you, but in a different way, instead of just
asking you to keep a log without giving you any context.
They could say something like, we're trying to get a
handle on the flow of doctors in the office. Can
(19:58):
you give us a sense of what hours you typically
see each person keeping Are people there in the morning,
when patients show up, and that kind of thing. But
it's hard to know what's going on behind the scenes,
and it's possible that they do actually have some reason
for handling it this way. It's also possible, of course,
that they don't, and that this was their first step
before they did any of the other things I talked about,
(20:19):
in which case they aren't handling it well and they
should have a conversation with the doctors who they're concerned about.
But ultimately, that's their call and it's not one that
you get to make. They do have the right to
expect you to do this if they ask for it.
I'm guessing that the thing about telling you not to
talk about it or put it in writing is because
(20:39):
they don't want the doctors to know that they're observing this,
because they don't want people changing their behavior because they
know it's being monitored more closely. They want to see
what's actually going on without anyone being tipped off and
changing anything. And I totally get why that feels ikey
to you, but I do think you've got to do
it since were told to by a supervisor. I would
(21:03):
just remember there really could be reasonable cause for this
that you're not privy to. That said, if you have
decent rapport with the boss who asked you to do it,
it is okay to ask about it. You know, you
could say something like, to be totally transparent, I feel
really awkward about doing this without our doctors knowing. Is
there any context do you can give me to help
(21:24):
me understand why you want us to do it. You
may not get a full explanation, but it might prompt
them to give you a little more context. And it's
a reasonable thing to ask either way, as long as
you explain that the question is coming from a place
of just feeling a little uneasy about it. Let's do
one ware break here and then I'll be back with
the question from a woman who is pregnant and one
(21:46):
of her co workers keeps calling her mom. Why Allison. First,
I want to thank you for your fascinating and informative podcast.
I'm calling today to talk about pregnancy related issues in
the workplace. I am presently about six months and very
(22:10):
visibly pregnant. While I have so far avoided the workplace
discrimination that some women encounter during pregnancy, I'm noticing a
number of other, less serious issues that still caused me concern.
I've been at my job for about two years. My
office is a relatively large and compartmentalized workplace, and my
job is primarily research and writing based. So while I'm
friendly with my coworkers, I often work alone and I
(22:32):
like to keep my personal and work lives separate. But
since I've become pregnant, it seems like many of my
co workers consider this to be an invitation to pop
into my office unannounced or stop me in the hallway
to talk about my pregnancy and ask me some very
personal questions. Over the past couple of months, colleagues, including
people who I don't know very well, have made comments,
are asked uncomfortable questions about my body size, my personal life,
(22:55):
and my career plans following the birth of the baby. Frequently,
the same people we'll also ask me the same questions,
and we'll make the same comments over and over again.
Here's a sample of some of the questions and comments
I've heard from colleagues. Wow, you look like you're ready
to pop. When are you do? I'm sure it won't
belong now. How are you feeling? You look so sick?
We're tired? How many more kids do you plan to have? Or?
(23:18):
Most troubling, Lee, I'm sure you're planning to quit after
the baby is born. Right. One coworker in particular stands
out for his behavior. Shortly after I began to show,
my coworker asked me when I was doing. I had
not told him that I was pregnant, so this was
a total guest on his part, But because I had
already shared the news of my pregnancy with my boss
and select colleagues, I confirmed that he had guessed. Right.
(23:40):
This is not a coworker that I interact with very often,
but suddenly he was going out of his way two
or three times a week just to talk to me
about being pregnant. Most insulting to me was when he
started calling me mom. At first, I tried to use
short answers in body language to let him know these
comments and questions were unwelcome, but he didn't seem to
pick up on these signals. Eventually, I pulled him aside
to explain how uncomfortable I was with that nickname and
(24:03):
to ask him not to do it again. I further
added that I didn't like to talk about my pregnancy
at work unless it affected my work. He said he understood,
but thirty seconds later he turned around and asked me
again when I was due. I appreciate that most people
are either genuinely happy for me, or maybe just a
little nosy but mean no harm. Well, I suspect there
might be a colleague or two prying to determine whether
(24:24):
or not my job will open up after I take
maternity leave, which it will not. I truly believe that
most people only have good intentions. I also know that
a lot of women enjoy talking about their pregnancies, but
I'm just not one of those women. There are, of course,
legitimate professional reasons to discuss my pregnancy and maternity leave
at work, and I am not bothered by these questions
and discussions with my boss and my team who will
(24:47):
be affected by my time off. I have been very
open and proactive about the amount of time I plan
to take, what work I can do in advance, and
what work will need to be completed by others while
I'm away. It's only the unnecessary questions and comments about
my pre nancy that are troubling me. How can I
navigate the situation. I'm trying my best to be polite
and put things in perspective, for these comments and questions
(25:08):
truly make me uncomfortable. How can I make it clear
that while I'm pregnant work, the boundaries about my personal
life remain the same. It's so gross that he called
you mom. People are so weird, to be clear. I'm
sure there are some women out there who would not
have a problem with that, but so many would. And
it's presumptuous to do that to someone if you don't
(25:30):
know them well enough to know for sure that they
would be fine with it. It's bad enough when you've
got pushy relatives doing that kind of thing. It's even
weirder and more out of line when it's a coworker
and a coworker who you don't even interact with much,
that people are bizarre with the nosy questions and terris
of comments. I do think you're right that most people
(25:51):
are just happy for you and are trying to connect
in a warm way and not realizing that it feels
boundary crossing to you. And I think for the more
my yelled comments, the easiest thing to do is to
just take them in that spirit and to feel free
to then quickly change the subject. Polite people will pick
up on your cues. But if someone keeps asking you
(26:12):
how you feel or otherwise raising your pregnancy in a
way that you don't like, it's totally okay to say,
you know, I appreciate your concern, but I'm actually trying
not to talk about it too much at work. Thanks
for understanding, And again, polite people will get it. For
people who comment on your body, like saying that you're huge,
(26:32):
it's so weird how pregnant women's bodies suddenly become fair
game for people to comment on like this. Isn't it anyway?
For those people, you still might find it easier to
just take it as okay. This person is attempting to
connect with me, even though they are doing it in
an awkward way. But if you want to, it is
also completely fine to say, you know, it's never a
(26:53):
great idea to comment on someone's size, even when they're pregnant.
You might educate some people that way. Who knows that.
You also don't have to take that on if you
don't want to. It's fine to just like raise your
eyebrows and change the subject or whatever you want. They're
being a little rude, and it's not on you to
have to find a way to smooth it over with
(27:13):
people who ask if you are planning to quit after
the baby is born. This is so offensive even when
people don't realize it. It's harmful to women who do
plan to return, because when people assume that or reinforce
that idea, it can impact what kind of projects and
promotions women are given, and in some cases it even
leads to employers being hesitant to hire women of childbearing age,
(27:36):
even if only subconsciously. So you are free to respond
however you want to that You could say wow, no,
what a weird assumption, or no, And it's pretty damaging
for women when people assume that or Wow, you really
shouldn't say that to pregnant women. Seriously, call that crap out.
(27:56):
I mean, you don't have to get up in a
soapbox and start handing out pamphlets about the Pregnancy Discrimination Act.
But you can absolutely respond in a way that makes
it clear that the question is BS and out ofline.
And if you do the soapbox in the burchers, I
support that too. As for that guy who was calling
you mom, I think you handled it perfectly. You know,
you tried to use and polite cues that his comments
(28:17):
weren't welcome, and when that didn't work, you addressed it
with him very directly. You were perfect. The fact that
he then asked you another pregnancy question thirty seconds later,
it doesn't mean that you didn't handle it well. It
means that he's an ass. It's totally okay with this
guy to get even more direct if he keeps doing
it after that conversation, It's fine to just be like ron,
(28:38):
I asked you to stop dwelling on my pregnancy. Please
cut it out. And one more thing for people listening,
in addition to what this color is describing about how
these questions feel so intrusive and boundary crossing. It's also
important to be thoughtful about how painful this kind of
focus on pregnancy at work can be for people who
are struggling with miscarriage or in for to letty. And
(29:00):
in many cases you have no idea who those people are,
So this is just a plea for all of us
to remember to be a little bit more thoughtful. That
is the show for today. If you would like to
hear your question answered on a future episode, you can
record it on the show voicemail at eight five work
at eight five five four T six nine six seven five.
(29:23):
You can also email a sound file of your question
to podcast at ask a manager dot org. I will
be back next time with more questions. M
My colleagues. We'll stop commenting on everything I get my
assistant eyes at people and meeting. Why does my coworker
keep taking credit for all my idea? Have any wisdom
for me? Hi, I'm Alison Green. Welcome to the Aska
Manager Podcast, where I answer questions from listeners about life
at work, everything from what to say if you're allergic
to your coworkers perfume to what to do if you
drink too much at the company party. Let's get started, Hi,
(00:28):
and welcome to the show. Today. We have a bunch
of interesting questions to tackle, including someone who has an
ethical dilemma, someone who isn't sure how to answer a
question that she keeps getting at new jobs, someone who's
pregnant and has coworkers who are being strange, and more.
This first question is from someone who is wondering if
(00:48):
she'll ever have any job that she likes. Hi, Allison,
I wrote a rambling letter to your blog a while ago,
and when I was incredibly stressed out and floundering at
my new job. I managed to work myself out of
that immediate deep hole. But I'm still struggling with being
happy at work while I feel like the malfunctions I'm
dealing with in my current job are reason enough to leave.
There's a part of me that wonders, will I ever
(01:09):
like any job I hold. I spent my twenties either
hating my office like jobs or pursuing a more creative career,
only to realize I didn't like it and I wasn't
really that good at it. I told myself that I
should stick with what I'm good at, which are more
technical minded roles, but um with project management and process
improvements sprinkled in there, and that I need to find
out how to balance the good and bad with work.
(01:32):
At thirty, I started a decent job and quickly got
a promotion, but the company laid off workers earlier this
year due to losing a major client, so I decided
to look elsewhere. Not to mention that the culture there
was pretty negative all the time. I thought the job
I started in April would be better, but my manager
is terrible and the leadership of my team and department
is very poor. Not to mention I'm drowning in work
(01:54):
and can't stop stressing about it all the time. I
have a tendency to care too much about work and
second guest myself. It's also really difficult for me to
just ignore things that can be improved at work, which
I think drains me. I'm having trouble looking for a
new job again because I'm terrified I'm putting all this
effort in just to hate my job again. I started
working with a career coach to help me figure out
what it is I want to do with my career.
(02:17):
But I'm still concerned that I'm just not going to
like any job that I go to. So my question is,
how can I like my job when there's always going
to be things I don't like about it? How can
I leave work at work and not stress about it
all the time? Well? I think there are a few
different possibilities here. One is that you are in the
wrong field. You know, you picked work that you're good at,
(02:39):
but that doesn't mean that you like that work. And
it's okay to not want to spend forty hours a
week or more doing something just because you happen to
be good at it. I mean, I might spend some
time thinking about the parts of your jobs that you
have actually enjoyed, not just we're good at, but really
felt good about doing, and it might not be an
obvious field like project management, may be something small like, oh,
(03:01):
I've really enjoyed talking new clients through our services and
how we'll work together, or oh, I love the days
when I get to work totally alone with data and
don't have to talk to anyone, or who knows what.
But if there's anything at all in the jobs that
you've had in the last decade that you did enjoy
or at least didn't dislike, think about those things and
see if it leads you anywhere. Because it's possible that
(03:24):
you were overly practical when you chose this field, and
that you've got a course correct by really leaning into
the stuff that you like. And you mentioned you're talking
to a career counselor, and I'm sure they're going into
that stuff with you. The second possibility is that your
field is fine, but you're picking the wrong jobs. And
this one might be something that the career counselor doesn't
(03:46):
get into so much. But I think it's really worth
thinking about because it's really really common. How much due
diligence are you doing when you accept a job? Are
you just kind of accepting any job that gets offered
to you, which a lot of people do, or are
you really interviewing employers as much as they interview you,
you know, doing research on what it's like to work there,
(04:06):
and picking really, really carefully. Most people do it the
first way, not the second way, And honestly, sometimes people
don't have the luxury of doing it the second way.
I mean, sometimes you just need a job, period, and
you don't have the option of being picky. But when
you're not selective about what jobs you take, you're much
more likely to end up in a situation where you
(04:28):
don't like your job, where the boss is horrible, or
the culture sucks, or the workload is overwhelming or so forth.
So before you conclude that you hate your field or
that you just will never like a job at all,
i'd really reflect on how much vetting you've done of
your jobs before you've taken them. If the answer is
(04:48):
very little, then I think it would be premature to
assume that the problem is the field or that the
problem is you. In that case, the thing I would
try next is to start being much more deliberate and
careful about vetting the next job, which also includes vetting
the boss, because there's often red flags in the interview
process that people either don't notice or don't pay enough
(05:09):
attention to and often it's because you just get focused
on getting a job offer and you lose sight of
the fact that interviewing should be a two way street
where you're assessing the company right back. So that means
really paying attention to cuse that you get about culture
and about management style, and it also means going outside
of the formal interview process to get information about how
(05:31):
things really work there, the stuff you might not be
able to find out in an interview. Linked In can
be really helpful in this because you can see if
anyone in your network is connected to anyone who works
there or used to work there and might be able
to give you the inside scoop. It doesn't even have
to be people's first degree connections. It could be second
or third degree connections, like if your old co worker
(05:53):
is connected to someone who's connected to someone who's connected
to the company you're working for, there's a good source
of info. And especially if they don't work there anymore,
people are often more willing to give you real candid information.
I actually think that is one of the best uses
of LinkedIn. UM. I mean LinkedIn is is also very
helpful as sort of an automatically updated rolodex for everyone
(06:15):
you've ever worked with. And I think this is the
other way that it's super helpful. Obviously, some people also
find LinkedIn very helpful for recruiting and finding jobs, but
a lot of people don't, and for those people, this
is the value that Lincoln can bring to you. Okay,
So Possibility one is that you're in the wrong field.
Possibility too is that your field is fine, but you
(06:35):
need to vet jobs more carefully before you take them.
Possibility three is that, yes, it is something that you
are bringing to the situation. You said you have a
tendency to care about work too much and to have
trouble ignoring things that work that could be improved, and
that that drains you. And you are right that there
will always be things that a job that you don't
(06:56):
like and for people who tend to care to uma,
which it can be hard sometimes to know where the
line is between. Yeah, this is an ideal, but it's
not a huge problem and I can live with it,
versus this is truly toxic and I should get out.
One way to help calibrate it is to look at
what people around you think. If you have some coworkers
(07:19):
who seem generally reasonable and they have good judgment and
are reasonably accomplished. What's their take. Are they like, run
for the hills while you have the chance, or are
they more like, Yeah, it's a little annoying, but not
a big deal. That doesn't mean that you always have
to feel like other people around you feel, And frankly,
a really dysfinctional workplace can warp your sense of what's normal,
(07:41):
So there can be danger in relying too much on
the opinions of other people. But it is one data
point to look at. The other thing to look at
is what the impact is on you. If something at
work is bugging you, is it bugging you in principle
because you think something should be running better, or is
it having an actual direct impact on your ability to
(08:03):
do your job and on your quality of life. If
it's just annoying you on principle because someone is wrong
or because you would handle something differently, I mean, believe me,
I get that that stuff. I'm like the Queen of
being annoyed on principle, but at the point where it's
affecting your mental quality of life even though the work
thing itself is not impacting your quality of life. That
(08:25):
stuff I would work and letting go. You know, they're
presumably not paying you to care more about that stuff
than they do, and it's okay to decide I'm at
work to do this very specific job that they're paying
me for, and I don't have to care about things
outside of that scope because someone else is handling that,
even if they're handling it differently than I think they should,
(08:47):
And there can be real relief and even liberation in
just deciding to care less. On the other hand, though,
if the things that you are bothered by are directly
affecting you, and you mentioned drowning and work, and that
would certainly qualify, that's different. Those are cases where I
think you should explore whether there are solutions that would
(09:08):
improve things for you, like in the case of an
overwhelming workload, talking to your boss about prioritizing what's on
your plate and potentially moving things off of it. If
that doesn't work, then you know that this is part
of the package of having this job, and you can
decide from there if it works for you or not.
But I think getting real clarity on what doesn't doesn't
affect you and very deliberately choosing not to focus on
(09:30):
the stuff that doesn't may help you get clearer about
what's really going on here. It's hard to say for
sure with the limited info that I have, but these
are the places that I would start digging into. Okay,
next letter, Hi Alison, I'm not sure how to answer
some questions from my colleagues after I started a new
job Boston Times. I will have just started a week
(09:52):
or two or even a month in and I'm always asked,
what do you think about this place? How do you
like it here? Or even more phlammic thing, do you
like your new job here? I know that my colleagues
are coming from a good place and I want to
get along with them, but I don't want to sound
or say anything off putting or alienating. Do you have
any suggestions on how to answer this type of question?
(10:16):
Thank you so much. In the vast majority of cases,
this question is really similar to how are you, and
that people are saying it to be warm and polite
and are expecting you to complete the exchange by saying
something warm and polite in return. They're just looking for
you to say something like, oh, I'm getting settled in
(10:36):
everyone seems great so far, or so far so good,
or you know, there's a lot to learn, but I'm
really enjoying it. They are not usually looking for anything
beyond that, like a confession that you're overwhelmed or second
guessing your decision to take the job, or that you
have some real doubts about the boss. And if someone
is looking for that kind of answer and they're not
(10:58):
your boss, that is often going to be someone who
is into drama, and you don't want to feed that. Now.
I said if they're not your boss, because this is
different when your boss is the one doing the asking.
With your boss, there is more room to have a
real conversation, like if there's more training that you need,
or the job doesn't seem like what you signed up for,
or you need clarity about something. Those are things that
(11:20):
you can definitely discuss with your boss in response to
this question. But with everyone else, they're usually just trying
to be warm and welcoming and to connect with you
in some way, and so you just respond in kind
with something like so far, so good, and then you
can keep the conversation going if you want, by asking
things like how long have you been here? And tell
me more about the work that you do and things
(11:41):
like that. Most people like to talk about themselves, and
you can build relationships through those conversations. We're gonna go
to a quick break here and come right back. Accepted
a job for a little over six months ago at
(12:02):
a rapidly growing startup company. At the time, my role
was intended to serve under a senior manager to help
with the high volume of work. At the time, the
pace seemed a little low, but I was desperate for
a new job and accepted without negotiating. However, not even
halfway through my time at this company, the senior manager
left and I was given her entire workload. While I
(12:23):
was stressed for to say the least, I set up
to the plate and make sure everything continued to run smoothly.
I was thanked immensely for my hard work, but not
offered a raise or promotion. Here we are a few
months later. My company has hired a second person to
share responsibility with my assigned tasks, but I'm still swamped.
I've been told numerous times that I will will receive
(12:44):
a performance review once HR finalizes their new initiative for
raises and promotions, but I'm growing frustrated. What has really
triggered my dissatisfaction was recently finding out that co op
students my company has hired this quarter are getting paid
more than me. I've gone ahead and address my workload
as well as salary concerns with my manager, who cannot
(13:05):
make any promises about when and how this will be resolved.
Is there anything further I can do? Thanks? Maybe there
are definitely things you should try first. I want to
say that in general, in most cases, you wouldn't normally
ask for a raise until you've been there for a year,
even if you realize that you should have negotiated better
when the offer was made. Once you agree to a salary,
(13:27):
the understanding is generally that you're agreeing to work at
that salary for a period of time, and usually it's
going to look off if you ask for the salary
to be revisited sooner than a year. But there are
some exceptions to that, and this is one of them,
because when your job changes significantly from the one that
you accepted, it's reasonable to revisit compensation at that point.
(13:48):
If you were really given your manager's entire workload, that
is a huge change, and that is a reason to
revisit how much you're making now. You said that you
have been told a bunch of times that you will
get a performance of you at some point once HR
finalizes some processes. But the performance review isn't really the
issue here. I mean, yes, let's get you a performance
review if you want one, but the more important thing
(14:11):
right now is the salary. And you're still being paid
for this previous, more junior version of the job rather
than for the significantly increased amount of responsibility that you've
taken on. You don't need a performance review for them
to correct your salary. So I don't want you to
play into that idea because that is making it more
complicated than it needs to be. So what I think
(14:32):
you should do is go to your boss and say,
you know, I understand that HR is in the middle
of new processes for raises and promotions, but I want
to request that my salary be addressed now. I was
happy to help out when Jane left and to pick
up her workload, but it's been several months since I've
been doing her work as well as my own and
shouldering significantly more responsibility than the job that I was
(14:52):
brought on to do. And I'd like my salary to
reflect the way the job has changed. Can we adjust
my salary now to reflect that the work I'm doing
now is different than what I was brought into do.
If your boss tells you that yes, it will happen
at some point, but doesn't say when, then you can
try to pin that down a little more. You can
(15:13):
say something like, I'd like to get a more solid
timeline in place for this, because it's been several months.
What do we need to do to get this addressed?
And frankly, you can also say, I am concerned that
the co op students we've hired are being paid more
than me given our relative contributions, and I'd like to
correct that. But if that doesn't produce any results, then
(15:34):
at that point there isn't much more pushing you can do,
and so you would have to decide if you're willing
to stay in the job at this level of pay
or if you want to look elsewhere. And it's also
possible if they do come through with a raise at
some point, you can push them to make it retroactive
so that it covers this period. Some companies will do that,
some won't, but it's you can definitely ask one caveat
(15:57):
to all of this, though, and it's important you did
say that they hired someone else to help with the workload.
So if your workload is now just a bit higher
than before, that isn't something that I would make this
strong of a pushover workloads change, and that is just
how it goes. And in that case, you can't be
quite this aggressive coming at it from a place of
(16:18):
of course they need to fix this, but if you've
really taken over most of your old manager's job, then
go for it. And one other thing which won't help
you now but might help in the future. I totally
get that when you get offered a job and you're
feeling desperate, it's very tempting to just accept without trying
to negotiate salary. But it almost always does make sense
(16:39):
to ask for more. I mean, there are some situations
where it doesn't like if they met or exceeded the
amount that you said you were looking for, or if
the offer is already really generous for your field, or
if you know that salaries for this role are fixed
and they don't negotiate, But in most cases it does
make sense to see if you can get a little
bit more because you can often get a lot more
(17:00):
money just by asking for it at that point, and
it typically will never be as easy to get a
raise later on as it is to get a higher
salary during the offer negotiation process. So even when you're
feeling desperate, don't let that be a reason not to ask. Okay,
next letter, I'm calling because I have a bit of
(17:22):
an ethical flamma that I started having to say a
work recently, and I was wondering if you could help
me out. I worked for a conglomerate of doctors, so
the hierarchy within the offices or office is very different
than a normal corporate work environment. But recently, my supervisor
(17:44):
has asked that me and my fellow co workers in
the same position in our office and the other offices
that we work with, reports weekly about the doctors and
residents when they are coming into the office in the morning.
So it's it's it's very confusing, um because the doctors
(18:08):
that we work with, some of them are specialists, and
it's not those ones that we have to report about,
but it's the doctors that we work with every day.
They are the doctors who would be our immediate supervisors
and We were told when we were asked to do
this that they didn't want any of it in writing.
So my supervisor came out to all of our locations,
(18:30):
came out to us on location and told us and
said that it was just her and the CIO that
wanted uh disinformation, and that we were not to tell
anybody about it. Not really to discuss it, but it
just it troubled me that they're asking for documentation about
our supervisors are like quasi supervisors arrival times, but they
(18:55):
also want no written record of this, and I just
feel like it's a very strange ethical Blaman, I was
hoping you could help. Oh, this is interesting. So there
are very legitimate reasons that they could be asking you
to do this. They could have gotten reports from patients
or from other people that doctors aren't there when they're
(19:16):
supposed to be. They could be in a position where
they're genuinely concerned that doctors aren't there when they need
to be, but they're not in sight to see it
for themselves, and so they're asking the people who are
to let them know what's going on. This isn't the
best way for them to handle it, because of course
it's going to make you and your coworkers feel uncomfortable. Ideally,
(19:36):
they would just talk to the doctors directly about what's
going on. But maybe they've done that and it's still unresolved.
We don't know. In that case, Ideally they then talk
to you, but in a different way, instead of just
asking you to keep a log without giving you any context.
They could say something like, we're trying to get a
handle on the flow of doctors in the office. Can
(19:58):
you give us a sense of what hours you typically
see each person keeping Are people there in the morning,
when patients show up, and that kind of thing. But
it's hard to know what's going on behind the scenes,
and it's possible that they do actually have some reason
for handling it this way. It's also possible, of course,
that they don't, and that this was their first step
before they did any of the other things I talked about,
(20:19):
in which case they aren't handling it well and they
should have a conversation with the doctors who they're concerned about.
But ultimately, that's their call and it's not one that
you get to make. They do have the right to
expect you to do this if they ask for it.
I'm guessing that the thing about telling you not to
talk about it or put it in writing is because
(20:39):
they don't want the doctors to know that they're observing this,
because they don't want people changing their behavior because they
know it's being monitored more closely. They want to see
what's actually going on without anyone being tipped off and
changing anything. And I totally get why that feels ikey
to you, but I do think you've got to do
it since were told to by a supervisor. I would
(21:03):
just remember there really could be reasonable cause for this
that you're not privy to. That said, if you have
decent rapport with the boss who asked you to do it,
it is okay to ask about it. You know, you
could say something like, to be totally transparent, I feel
really awkward about doing this without our doctors knowing. Is
there any context do you can give me to help
(21:24):
me understand why you want us to do it. You
may not get a full explanation, but it might prompt
them to give you a little more context. And it's
a reasonable thing to ask either way, as long as
you explain that the question is coming from a place
of just feeling a little uneasy about it. Let's do
one ware break here and then I'll be back with
the question from a woman who is pregnant and one
(21:46):
of her co workers keeps calling her mom. Why Allison. First,
I want to thank you for your fascinating and informative podcast.
I'm calling today to talk about pregnancy related issues in
the workplace. I am presently about six months and very
(22:10):
visibly pregnant. While I have so far avoided the workplace
discrimination that some women encounter during pregnancy, I'm noticing a
number of other, less serious issues that still caused me concern.
I've been at my job for about two years. My
office is a relatively large and compartmentalized workplace, and my
job is primarily research and writing based. So while I'm
friendly with my coworkers, I often work alone and I
(22:32):
like to keep my personal and work lives separate. But
since I've become pregnant, it seems like many of my
co workers consider this to be an invitation to pop
into my office unannounced or stop me in the hallway
to talk about my pregnancy and ask me some very
personal questions. Over the past couple of months, colleagues, including
people who I don't know very well, have made comments,
are asked uncomfortable questions about my body size, my personal life,
(22:55):
and my career plans following the birth of the baby. Frequently,
the same people we'll also ask me the same questions,
and we'll make the same comments over and over again.
Here's a sample of some of the questions and comments
I've heard from colleagues. Wow, you look like you're ready
to pop. When are you do? I'm sure it won't
belong now. How are you feeling? You look so sick?
We're tired? How many more kids do you plan to have? Or?
(23:18):
Most troubling, Lee, I'm sure you're planning to quit after
the baby is born. Right. One coworker in particular stands
out for his behavior. Shortly after I began to show,
my coworker asked me when I was doing. I had
not told him that I was pregnant, so this was
a total guest on his part, But because I had
already shared the news of my pregnancy with my boss
and select colleagues, I confirmed that he had guessed. Right.
(23:40):
This is not a coworker that I interact with very often,
but suddenly he was going out of his way two
or three times a week just to talk to me
about being pregnant. Most insulting to me was when he
started calling me mom. At first, I tried to use
short answers in body language to let him know these
comments and questions were unwelcome, but he didn't seem to
pick up on these signals. Eventually, I pulled him aside
to explain how uncomfortable I was with that nickname and
(24:03):
to ask him not to do it again. I further
added that I didn't like to talk about my pregnancy
at work unless it affected my work. He said he understood,
but thirty seconds later he turned around and asked me
again when I was due. I appreciate that most people
are either genuinely happy for me, or maybe just a
little nosy but mean no harm. Well, I suspect there
might be a colleague or two prying to determine whether
(24:24):
or not my job will open up after I take
maternity leave, which it will not. I truly believe that
most people only have good intentions. I also know that
a lot of women enjoy talking about their pregnancies, but
I'm just not one of those women. There are, of course,
legitimate professional reasons to discuss my pregnancy and maternity leave
at work, and I am not bothered by these questions
and discussions with my boss and my team who will
(24:47):
be affected by my time off. I have been very
open and proactive about the amount of time I plan
to take, what work I can do in advance, and
what work will need to be completed by others while
I'm away. It's only the unnecessary questions and comments about
my pre nancy that are troubling me. How can I
navigate the situation. I'm trying my best to be polite
and put things in perspective, for these comments and questions
(25:08):
truly make me uncomfortable. How can I make it clear
that while I'm pregnant work, the boundaries about my personal
life remain the same. It's so gross that he called
you mom. People are so weird, to be clear. I'm
sure there are some women out there who would not
have a problem with that, but so many would. And
it's presumptuous to do that to someone if you don't
(25:30):
know them well enough to know for sure that they
would be fine with it. It's bad enough when you've
got pushy relatives doing that kind of thing. It's even
weirder and more out of line when it's a coworker
and a coworker who you don't even interact with much,
that people are bizarre with the nosy questions and terris
of comments. I do think you're right that most people
(25:51):
are just happy for you and are trying to connect
in a warm way and not realizing that it feels
boundary crossing to you. And I think for the more
my yelled comments, the easiest thing to do is to
just take them in that spirit and to feel free
to then quickly change the subject. Polite people will pick
up on your cues. But if someone keeps asking you
(26:12):
how you feel or otherwise raising your pregnancy in a
way that you don't like, it's totally okay to say,
you know, I appreciate your concern, but I'm actually trying
not to talk about it too much at work. Thanks
for understanding, And again, polite people will get it. For
people who comment on your body, like saying that you're huge,
(26:32):
it's so weird how pregnant women's bodies suddenly become fair
game for people to comment on like this. Isn't it anyway?
For those people, you still might find it easier to
just take it as okay. This person is attempting to
connect with me, even though they are doing it in
an awkward way. But if you want to, it is
also completely fine to say, you know, it's never a
(26:53):
great idea to comment on someone's size, even when they're pregnant.
You might educate some people that way. Who knows that.
You also don't have to take that on if you
don't want to. It's fine to just like raise your
eyebrows and change the subject or whatever you want. They're
being a little rude, and it's not on you to
have to find a way to smooth it over with
(27:13):
people who ask if you are planning to quit after
the baby is born. This is so offensive even when
people don't realize it. It's harmful to women who do
plan to return, because when people assume that or reinforce
that idea, it can impact what kind of projects and
promotions women are given, and in some cases it even
leads to employers being hesitant to hire women of childbearing age,
(27:36):
even if only subconsciously. So you are free to respond
however you want to that You could say wow, no,
what a weird assumption, or no, And it's pretty damaging
for women when people assume that or Wow, you really
shouldn't say that to pregnant women. Seriously, call that crap out.
(27:56):
I mean, you don't have to get up in a
soapbox and start handing out pamphlets about the Pregnancy Discrimination Act.
But you can absolutely respond in a way that makes
it clear that the question is BS and out ofline.
And if you do the soapbox in the burchers, I
support that too. As for that guy who was calling
you mom, I think you handled it perfectly. You know,
you tried to use and polite cues that his comments
(28:17):
weren't welcome, and when that didn't work, you addressed it
with him very directly. You were perfect. The fact that
he then asked you another pregnancy question thirty seconds later,
it doesn't mean that you didn't handle it well. It
means that he's an ass. It's totally okay with this
guy to get even more direct if he keeps doing
it after that conversation, It's fine to just be like ron,
(28:38):
I asked you to stop dwelling on my pregnancy. Please
cut it out. And one more thing for people listening,
in addition to what this color is describing about how
these questions feel so intrusive and boundary crossing. It's also
important to be thoughtful about how painful this kind of
focus on pregnancy at work can be for people who
are struggling with miscarriage or in for to letty. And
(29:00):
in many cases you have no idea who those people are,
So this is just a plea for all of us
to remember to be a little bit more thoughtful. That
is the show for today. If you would like to
hear your question answered on a future episode, you can
record it on the show voicemail at eight five work
at eight five five four T six nine six seven five.
(29:23):
You can also email a sound file of your question
to podcast at ask a manager dot org. I will
be back next time with more questions. M
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