February 6, 2025 • 39 mins
In this episode of the Athletes First Family Podcast, we dive into the intricate world of NFL contract negotiations, breaking down the strategy behind Justin Herbert’s historic $262.5 million extension with the Los Angeles Chargers. Join us as we uncover the key factors that shaped this groundbreaking contract and the cooperative approach that helped close the deal.
From the client-first strategy that prioritized Herbert’s long-term security to the in-depth education process on contract structures and market trends, we explore the meticulous planning behind one of the biggest deals in NFL history. With a record-setting $100 million in new money in the first new year and $218.7 million guaranteed, this negotiation redefined the market.
With a focus on collaboration, trust, and strategic execution, learn how Athletes First continues to push the boundaries of athlete representation at the highest level.
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Timestamps:
00:00:00 - Introduction to Justin Herbert's Contract Negotiation
00:01:16 - Overview of Record-Breaking Deals
00:03:49 - Initial Meeting with Justin Herbert's Family
00:07:24 - First Impressions of Justin Herbert
00:09:54 - Draft Surprise and Initial Reactions
00:12:13 - Justin's Rookie Season and Early Expectations
00:14:35 - Negotiating Justin's Contract After Year Three
00:19:07 - Educating Justin on Contract Details
00:21:35 - Salary Cap Growth and Market Timing
00:24:18 - Team's Funding Rules and Negotiation Strategies
00:27:06 - Overview of Justin Herbert's Contract Deal
00:29:39 - Importance of Cash Flow in Contracts
00:33:16 - Guarantees in Justin's Contract
00:36:11 - Lessons Learned from the Negotiation Process
00:38:40 - Congratulations on the Deal and Career
00:39:11 - Closing Remarks
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
In Justin's mind, and he knowed no different.
Speaker 2 (00:02):
He's like, let's go get the highest guarantee and the
longest contract you can get because he wanted to be
you know, to your point, what did he think of
the Chargers. He wanted to be their franchise quarterback for
a long time. So, you know, Justin, I spent a
lot of time talking about the pros and cons of that,
you know, and we looked at other contracts and educated
him about the you know, the dangers of doing the
(00:24):
long term deal, a long term deal more than a
four or five year extension.
Speaker 3 (00:33):
Welcome to the next episode of the Athletes First family
podcast series featuring quarterback deals. I am Brian Murphy, CEO
of Athletes First, along with my trusted sidekick and co
host AJ Stevens, who is our VP of Client Strategy
and arguably one of the best negotiators in the game,
if not the best. Welcome Aj, Thanks Merph.
Speaker 4 (00:54):
The purpose of this podcast is to give our listeners
an inside view of the largest and most success full
NFL football agency in the industry. Our expertise in quarterbacks
is the crux of this series, and today we have
Justin Schulman back to talk with us about the Justin
Herbert negotiation, your relationship with Justin and everything in between.
Speaker 3 (01:16):
Could it be back, guys, thanks for coming back, Justin.
Great to see you again. But aj I wanna juggle
into Justin Herberts d in the relationship and recruiting and
everything that. But before we do, let's give the audience
a little bit of a feel for the other record breaking,
huge deals that Justin's led our negotiations.
Speaker 4 (01:33):
Yeah, so Justin's got a great resume. The first deal
that I got to work with you on was Fred Warners.
He became the highest paid linebacker in NFL history. It
was a difficult one at the time. We had to
come up with a unique structure to get that one
past the finish line, but ended up being the record
breaking deal that it is. And then also Mark Andrews,
(01:56):
he signed the largest four year contract for a tight
end NFL history at the time. Uh, in total ap y,
it was the second largest for a tight end. But uh,
you know, the average salary is not how we judge
all of these deals. There's a lot of other aspects
to it. He had the best cash flow through the
first couple of years and the largest guarantee at signing,
(02:17):
so all of that was was a big win for us.
Speaker 3 (02:19):
And seeing cash flow as we've you know, worked on
friar Mouth Steel and cole Co met Steel, we keep
looking at that cas like, how did how did you
get that cash let?
Speaker 4 (02:26):
It was right, yeah, it was. It was great that way.
And then with this year you had Penne Sewell who
was the highest paid tackle in NFL history, and it
was the first time that a right tackle because he's
only played right tackle his entire career so far in
the NFL, the first time a right tackle became the
highest paid tackle in the NFL. So that was a
(02:47):
huge accomplishment there.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
Yeah, No, all three great deals. All really proud of
those and uh looking forward to more.
Speaker 1 (02:53):
Of course.
Speaker 3 (02:55):
Did that with Panel Joe Panels as well. Phenomenal deal
and at Unite from the Ryan Ramchick to you know
how hard it is to get a right tackle to
be the highest paid you know. So that's remarkable history,
that's great, that's awesome. But today we're here to talk
about your relationship with Justin Herbert. Two amazing individuals who
have come together informed what I'd say is a great
(03:16):
friendship and a great working relationship. Tell us a little
bit about like, how did you start recruiting Justin Herbert?
What was that process?
Speaker 1 (03:23):
Like? Yeah, so Justin.
Speaker 2 (03:25):
It turns out the family was really close with a
client of ours, Justin Wilcox and Dave Done, one of
our founders, is really close with the Wilcox family and
was able to get in contact with the Herberts and
had a preliminary discussion and set up a meeting and
asked me to attend, and it was great. Dave and
I went up sat with Justin and excuse me, Justin's parents.
(03:47):
Justin wasn't involved in the process. I think this summer
before his senior season to Eugene Organ. Justin ironically born
and raised in Eugene Organ and then played in Eugene Organ,
so I hadn't really left well in Oregon is his
home I think is about a mile and a half
from the stadium in Autin.
Speaker 3 (04:04):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (04:05):
So Dave brought me on board to help with that
recruit and we had a great meeting. Turns out we
had a very very small world connection. Found out that
a close family friend of Justin's mom was someone who
actually I worked very closely with on the Athlete first Classic,
our charity event back I think when.
Speaker 1 (04:26):
We started in two thousand and four.
Speaker 2 (04:27):
Wow, just very very randomly, Justin's mom and she grew
up together, which was great because it was able to
give the Herbert family some kind of validation as to
who we were. But we did that initial meeting and
formed an initial contact, and Justin was really not involved
in the process.
Speaker 1 (04:46):
Pushed everything on to his parents.
Speaker 2 (04:48):
So we stayed in touch with him, and then finally
once I think it was he beat Wisconsin in the
Rose Bowl. Shortly thereafter, we did our first and only
real sit down with Justin.
Speaker 3 (04:59):
So your first meeting was before the season began, before
his final season began.
Speaker 1 (05:03):
Correct, with his family and parents are just his parents.
Speaker 2 (05:06):
Ironically, his brother, younger brother Patrick, who plays for Oregon,
walked in I think with laundry, but no, it was
just just the two of them.
Speaker 3 (05:15):
That's great, that's great. And then you went, did you
go nat in the games?
Speaker 1 (05:18):
I did.
Speaker 2 (05:18):
I went and spend some time at a game, saw
his folks at the game. Didn't bother Justin because Justin
again was just focused on football. So we ran everything
through his parents. Got a great relationship with Holly and
Mark his parents and were able to kind of learn
about Justin through them, and then once the season ended,
they they kind of engaged the process again.
Speaker 1 (05:40):
If you will.
Speaker 3 (05:40):
And what did his parents are eventually Justin? Like, what
do they say they were looking for in an agency?
Speaker 1 (05:46):
You know?
Speaker 2 (05:46):
I think the thing that stood out to me just
was they wanted just someone to take care of their
son and to educate them and make sure they had
their sons back. And like I mentioned Mark and Holly,
just you know, good people down home, no ego, and
that was very evident in Justin. He's just one of
the most humble, hard working people there is. And you know,
(06:10):
for them, I think it was just about who can
take care of them? You know, who can who can
take care of them? The family atmosphere I think was important.
Obviously the fact that Dave had connections with the will
Cox family and the Wilcoxes were able to connect and
put you know, the dots together all helped.
Speaker 3 (06:25):
Did they have any connection to Joey Harrington, one of
our first clients.
Speaker 2 (06:28):
Yeah, you know, I think I'm almost positive there were
pictures of Justin wearing Joey's jersey when he was younger,
so Obviously the Organ connection helped as well, and I
believe Dave got him involved. And we've represented you know,
Kellen Clemens and other Organ players, Adam Snyder as well,
So we were able to really kind of work the
entire network. Sure, And and you know, whether it was
(06:48):
Chip Kelly or Dana Altman, their basketball coach, you know,
there was a lot of inns that that we looked at.
Speaker 3 (06:55):
I think when you have those many mutual contacts, you know,
I think it builds up some trust, right, like if
you worked with Joey Harrington or a J Feely or
Kellen Clemens and we know we can trust you. But like, ultimately,
I think what we say is the fact that we,
you know, worked for Kellen Clemens doesn't mean that and
he enjoyed it, doesn't mean that we're the right for
(07:16):
Justin Herbert.
Speaker 1 (07:16):
That's right.
Speaker 3 (07:17):
And so at the meeting after the bowl game, Justin
Herbert walks in, what's your first impression of Justin?
Speaker 2 (07:24):
He looks the part I mean that was just you know,
he looks like what a franchise quarterback should look like.
And just the way he listened and some of the questions,
the way he paid attention to it. We're just really impressive,
you know, again digging into contracts and how we would
handle things like training and whatnot, and hearing what was
important to him.
Speaker 1 (07:44):
You know.
Speaker 2 (07:45):
Something that struck me he didn't have a quarterback coach
that was kind of his guy and a player. I
represented John Beck as a renowned kind of quarterback coach
for college and pro quarterbacks, big hunter Fisherman, just like Justin,
and ironically Justin was interested in talking to him. We
(08:05):
had John Flapp the next day and they sat down
and just hit it off. And so again it was
just trying to build you know, the team around. It
just kind of made sense. But he Justin's an impressive guy.
Speaker 1 (08:15):
Yep.
Speaker 3 (08:16):
And kind of interesting because I think that year in
the draft, we represented Tua for all of his marketing
and off field endeavors, but not his contract, and then
Justin called you and Dave and said, hey, I want
I'm going to hire you for a contract but not
the marketing. So in that way we did work with
both Tua and Herbert in the draft. And when did
you find out that Justin was going to hire athletes first?
Speaker 2 (08:37):
So I think it was the two days after we
did our meeting. Well, we did the meeting. John Beck
flew up that the next day to meet with him.
We stayed in town and then I think it was
the next day Justin called Dave let him know he
was going to wanted to start. I got involved in
terms of getting all the logistics together, and I think
we flew Justin down that night, so four to eight
(08:58):
hours after the meeting and we to work. And you know,
for Justin, it was really his first time living outside
of Oregon, so you know, it was it was definitely
all new to him, so it was great to spend
that time with him. During the training program, went to
the Senior Bowl, went to the Combine, killed it at
both and then ironically we were up for his pro
(09:19):
day and that's when the world shut down for COVID.
Speaker 1 (09:22):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (09:23):
So you know, it was a very unique time period
during the draft. Right the draft was done, virtually we
weren't allowed to be with him. And then when he
moved down here, when he signed with the Chargers, he
moved down here, he really didn't know anybody. So he's
down here during COVID doesn't really know anybody. So we
kind of adopted him as our third child and he
would spend a lot of time at the house and
(09:44):
and you know, I think it was helpful to ease
that transition to a completely new place.
Speaker 3 (09:48):
So when you see down here Orange County, you live
in Orange County. Ye, he was drafted by the Charger
Chargers and were you was it? How was the draft?
I know you weren't with him. You probably talked to
him on the phone, like was that a surprise?
Speaker 1 (09:59):
Was it?
Speaker 2 (10:00):
You know, we knew that obviously there were teams in
that area, Miami, so Joe Burrow was clearly the number
one pick, and then you got into some other teams
in that area. I think Miami had the fifth pick
and the Chargers had the sixth pick. And I just
remember Tom Telasco, their general manager, after the Dolphins chose
to sent me lightning bolts. So that was the sign
(10:20):
it was going to be Justin. I know, you know,
there was some questions about what Jacksonville I think was
at nine in the draft, had done some work on
him and whatnot. But yeah, get the message from Justin
and we were all just fired up.
Speaker 3 (10:33):
So like most people think about Justin Herbert franchise quarterback,
Pro Bowl quarterback. You know, you said, he looks the part.
He plays the part. But you know, at the time,
he was twenty two years old, moving down Orange County,
leaving Eugene, Oregon for the first time. As you said,
COVID's here, so it's kind of a strange only place.
So you live at home with your wife and two
(10:54):
kids at the time, right, So he just came to
your house and hung out.
Speaker 2 (10:58):
Yeah, we would just have him over, whether it was
for food or whether it was you know, we play
board games or anything like that. You know, once the
world opened up a little bit, it was you know,
go do an escape room or things like that. You know,
Justin's just a normal guy and that's the best part
about him.
Speaker 1 (11:12):
You know. We we did spend a bunch of time
on the golf course. He's really good and I am not.
Speaker 2 (11:17):
Yeah, but yeah, it was you know, he didn't live
far away. We helped, you know, find the apartment and
help him get settled and everything like that. And then
you know, there was the beauty of having him done
in Orange County when the team was located here.
Speaker 1 (11:29):
He ended up living about.
Speaker 2 (11:30):
A mile and a half from my house, and uh,
you know, we would provide a refuge I think for him,
he was comfortable with my family and uh and yeah,
so whether it was cornhole, ping pong, there was always
a competition.
Speaker 3 (11:42):
Did you ever win a competition?
Speaker 2 (11:46):
You know, it's funny. He is competitive and that's what
makes him great. But you know, I would say there
was some there was some good competitions. It was him
and my son against me and my daughter in cornhole routinely,
and yeah, no, it was a lot of fun. And
again he just traded my family so well and really
appreciate it.
Speaker 4 (12:06):
But yeah, usually the losing team says it was a
lot of fun.
Speaker 3 (12:10):
Yeah, yeah, it's a ton of fun.
Speaker 1 (12:12):
Yeah, no comment. That's great.
Speaker 3 (12:14):
So he's drafted by the Chargers. He's down here beating
you at every sport you play, and then just walked
us through like he's on his rookie deal. Like how
the first couple of years of his career go.
Speaker 2 (12:23):
You know, I think there was that expectation that he
wasn't going to play, and I think, you know, frankly,
I was hoping he wasn't really going to play. Tyrod
Taylor was brought in to be the starring quarterback that year,
and I want to say it was week two or
three early in the season against the Kinsas City Chiefs,
where I turned it on and justin starting and that
was the whole episode where Tyrod got an injection before
(12:46):
the game and had an adverse reaction and whatnot, and.
Speaker 1 (12:50):
It was just kind of a shock. And I just
remember I called him after the game.
Speaker 2 (12:54):
I said, come over to the house, like, let's have dinner,
and he walked in. He was like, holy cow, and
it was you know, he went on to play really
really well that year and kind of but that was
never the expectation. I don't think that was the team's expectation.
I don't think that was his expectation. But he was
able to build from there. I think year two was
the Pro Bowl year. You know, he makes his first
(13:15):
Pro Bowl and you know, year three, I think it
was the Playoff his first Playoff game. So there was that,
you know, progression through the years.
Speaker 3 (13:23):
Yeah, yeah, no, I mean a great career, a great
start to the career first three years, like you said,
surprisingly early start, but he rose to the challenge and
did a great job. Like how did how did he
like his Orange County Chargers experience during those years?
Speaker 2 (13:38):
You know, I think he loves the franchise. You know,
it still does, loves the franchise and feels loyal to them.
I mean, he grew up ironically, I'm sure everybody saw
it like either wearing a Chargers jersey or writing that
he was going to play quarterback for the Chargers when
he was a kid. So it was all it was
all great, especially because the family was not too far away.
Speaker 1 (13:58):
Oregon's not too not too far away.
Speaker 2 (13:59):
But it really enjoyed the organization and the coaches that
he got to work with, established some really good connections
and you know, definitely was a place where he wants
to be, wanted to be long term.
Speaker 3 (14:10):
Okay, And so then he's he's he's clearly a team leader.
And we have we have a lot of players on
the Raiders, including like Derwin James, like you know, he's
been a captain and a leader for a long time.
And the Chargers yep, sorry, and uh it's in. And
then you know at the end of year three that
so you played three years in the league on your
rookie contract. After your third year, you can negotiate, you
negotiate your veteran.
Speaker 2 (14:30):
Deal and and which is pretty standard right in this
day and age it's.
Speaker 4 (14:35):
In the CBA, you're not allowed to negotiate an extension
until after the third year, right, So that's the first
time that the team can even approach a player about it.
Speaker 2 (14:43):
And I think history has shown like if you have
a guy, you want to get that done after the
third year or at least start the process.
Speaker 1 (14:49):
So that's when it started for.
Speaker 3 (14:51):
Us, So like right after the last game that season,
or at what point I.
Speaker 2 (14:55):
Think we had our first initial discussion at the combine
of him. So February, following the season and right before
free agency, sat down with a couple of their executives
and they had expressed an interest to start working on
the process. They did say it would be, you know,
after the draft. They wanted to get through the draft,
but to them it was a priority. He was their
(15:17):
cornerstone and wanted to have a you know, wanted to
get that get that done. They started planting seeds about
it being a team friendly deal and what that would
mean to them and everything like that. John was span us,
was very very bullish on that, did not not pulling
any punches, and so we had that initial discussion at
(15:39):
the combine and we agreed to touch base later after
the draft happened, we set up a lunch at Javier's
of all places, a great, great Mexican place here in
southern California. So we met, I think it was three
folks from the Chargers and Dave Done and myself and
met at lunch, talked again, more philosophically, more than anything,
(16:00):
about what was important to the team, what was important
to Justin and and those those things, and how the
market had changed, because I believe at that point Jalen
Hurts had done his contract and had become the first
fifty million dollar player.
Speaker 4 (16:15):
Yeah, and then Lamar quickly followed him.
Speaker 1 (16:17):
That's correct.
Speaker 2 (16:17):
So I think we did ours after I think when
we started the process, I don't know if Lamar was done,
but Jalen had just done his extension and was in
a similar situation. Three played three years, He had one
year left on his contract, right, But you know, we
knew that all these things were going to happen. Lamar
had just been franchised, I believe it was, so it
was coming off the franchise tag. So you know, at
(16:40):
that lunch we kind of talked philosophically about it.
Speaker 1 (16:42):
So that call that.
Speaker 3 (16:43):
May okay, And then so I mean, one thing we
talked about athletes first is like, you know, every negotiation
is different, Like this whole series talk about Dax deal
and Deshaun Watson's deal and Jordan Love's deal, Tours deal
and Herb Justin's deal. But you know, I think every
agent's different in terms of how the lead negotiator.
Speaker 1 (16:59):
But I think each.
Speaker 3 (17:01):
Agent does the same thing. They have to have the
negotiation process be reflective of the person for whom they negotiate, right,
And so tell us a little bit like when you
sat down with Justin and you probably could have guessed
because you guys are so close, but like, what did
like what what did Justin want that I'm guessing Justin
didn't want you using the media and slamming the table
right like you want a different protech? What was that
(17:22):
approach going to be?
Speaker 2 (17:22):
Like, hey, it's a great point whereph like this one
in my mind was going to reflect Justin the person,
which was we wanted something that was strong, something that
set the market, but that helped the team accomplish some
of their goals. It was not going to be contentious,
It was not going to be negotiating the media when
(17:44):
it got done. Not that it was going to be
a surprise that it was done, but it wasn't going
to be everybody watching the clock to see when the
deal was done. You know, in our mind, it was
we wanted to get it done before training camp, before
he stepped on the field and you know, took some hits.
That was the ideal goal, and I think the Chargers
had the same goal. So, you know, we spent a
lot of time educating Justin about the market, and you know, frankly,
(18:09):
this is why you hire an agent. He wasn't familiar
with things like cash flow, guarantees, term you know, in
Justin's mind and he knowed no different. He's like, let's
go get the highest guarantee and the longest contract you
can get because he wanted to be you know, to
your point, what did he think of the Chargers. He
wanted to be their franchise quarterback for a long time. So,
you know, Justin I spent a lot of time talking
(18:31):
about the pros and cons of that, you know, and
we looked at other contracts and educated him about the
you know, the dangers of doing a long term deal,
a long term deal more than a four or five
year extension. But understood that guarantee was important to Justin
and he wanted to not go somewhere. He wanted to
go somewhere and then be somewhere. He wanted that commitment.
(18:53):
He also wanted the team to be able to build.
He didn't want to be in the contract to be
an albatross. So we spent a lot of time that
off season, uh, kind of educating him every you know,
every time he would come over to the house a
lot and we would actually go for walks three to
four times a week.
Speaker 1 (19:14):
We would go to in our neighborhood and Justin Herbert.
Speaker 2 (19:19):
We would you know, two three four times a week.
We would do five six mile hikes and talk about life,
but then also talk about the contract and what was
important to him and whatnot. You know, every time we
made a proposal, every time they made a proposal, you know,
we had a kind of a running template that we
would show him as to how the contract was working
and how things changed and a special and a special no.
(19:44):
It was great, you know, working with a John it
was tremendous because it was able to bounce different ideas
off of it. We looked at some of the other
contracts and the pros and cons and tried to take
everything and I know, you know, candidly you probably would
have liked a shorter deal, right, and but you understood
from the cl perspective he wanted a little bit longer deal.
Speaker 4 (20:02):
Now, I think the focus was the guarantees, and in
order to get those bigger guarantees you have to add
on another year. Is really the give and take we
were looking at. And you know, when you're looking at
the market, of course Justin's first thought is, well, why
don't I just do a ten year deal fully guaranteed
and we'll go that way, And then you have to
sit and educate him on well, teams aren't going to
do a fully guaranteed deal at that length. And then
(20:24):
you have to you really have to peel it all
back and explain to him, well, here's a ten year
deal that is in the market. It has been done.
But here's the downside.
Speaker 1 (20:33):
This guy who.
Speaker 4 (20:33):
Signed it in twenty twenty on a ten year extension,
the market has gone up fifteen million dollars per year
in four years or a year later, a guy just
Josh Allen signs in twenty twenty one for forty three
million dollars per year. It's only been three years and
he's been bypassed by seventeen million dollars per year. And
so explaining that to justin that if you signed for
(20:55):
this now in two years, three years from now, it's
going to look like a discount for the charge is
just naturally because that's how the markets move. And so
when he started to understand that, I think it was
a big step in where we could go structure.
Speaker 1 (21:08):
One hundred percent.
Speaker 2 (21:09):
And you know, I think when you look at it now,
I think he's now the seventh highest paid right and
we're talking about fifteen months since he did his deal.
But you bring up, you know, the Patrick Mahomes really
long extension. The team didn't have to touch Patrick's deal
if they didn't want to, but obviously, with Patrick's success,
you want to do that. And obviously we can't question
(21:29):
why he chose that route or why Josh Allen chose
his route of a longer extension as well. But for
us educating him about the changing market, and most importantly,
I mean we haven't said it yet, the growth of
the salary cap.
Speaker 1 (21:42):
That's the reason it was.
Speaker 2 (21:44):
The extreme ballooning of the salary cap is why you
want to get to the market, back to the market sooner.
I mean, at the end of the day, they're making
a ton of money, but there's a reason it's the
highest paid position in sports. And you know, the shorter
deal gets you back to the market again.
Speaker 3 (22:00):
Go So, like, I think exactly you just said. Our goal,
we're supposed to educate our clients, give them all the information,
educate to empower, and then they have to decide what
they want to do, right, and we give them advice.
Speaker 1 (22:10):
Right.
Speaker 3 (22:11):
But we've done the largest deal in NFL history twelve times.
Speaker 1 (22:14):
For quarterback right over our career.
Speaker 3 (22:16):
And I think all twelve times the team came said,
oh listen, quarterback, if you want to get all this money,
we're not gonna be able in a super Bowl.
Speaker 1 (22:23):
Right.
Speaker 3 (22:23):
It says like I said, John Spannel is probably his
go to line, right, heard that a million times from
But like you know, and that's if I'm justin Herbert,
Especially if someone just't Herbert, who cares so much about
winning his teammate, he'd be, oh, listen, I don't I
don't need that much money if it's going to hurt
the team. So when the Chargers said that to you
and it's a genuine concern of justice. Right, he is
(22:44):
an authentic concern. He's really I don't want to I'd
rather win a Super Bowl than maximize my contract for sure.
Speaker 1 (22:49):
Right. How did you guys deal with that?
Speaker 3 (22:51):
What was the response?
Speaker 2 (22:52):
You know, I think the biggest part is educating him
on cash and cap are two completely different things. And
whereas cash isn't really fible, this is how much cash
you're going to make, how it affects the salary cap
can be manipulated. Every team has a way to do it,
whether it's you can kick the can down the road,
you can bite the bullet and take a little bit
(23:13):
more this year. And you know, when the structure that
we ended up working with the Chargers, his cap numbers
are fairly manageable.
Speaker 1 (23:23):
Right.
Speaker 4 (23:23):
Yeah, I remember including you talk about the template that
we would show to justin every single proposal that would
come in and go out, we had lines in there
that showed what the salary cap hit would be in
each year of the deal from the Chargers proposal and
then from our proposal, and so we could easily show
him it's the exact same cap hit over year one,
(23:43):
year two, year three, and it really isn't going to
affect their position as far as building a roster or
a team around you until maybe year five. So when
we actually finalize the deal, the cap hit in the
first year is it's four million dollars. And remember this
is a deal that averaged is fifty two and a
half million dollars per year. It never actually exceeds a
(24:04):
forty seven million dollar cap hit until after the fourth
year of the contract. So it's one of those things where, yes,
the team is working with a finite set of resources,
but they can be manipulated when it comes to the
salary cap, no doubt.
Speaker 2 (24:18):
And I think there was a couple of other things, right.
The team didn't want to fully guarantee things at the
very beginning because of an archaic funding rule that probably
should go away. Shockingly it hasn't. But you know, we
worked with them on their structure, right, So, Okay, what
was important to you the funding portion of it? All right, fine,
then let's work around and find ways to get through that.
(24:41):
What's important to us guaranteeing cash flow. So if you
focus on those two things, okay, quid quote quid pro
quote will help you. You help us, I will say,
and you brought it up. This was the first negotiation
I think I've done with a client where literally when
we share the information, we include the cap you know, ramifications,
And that was because it was a fulk for him.
(25:01):
And I think, you know, one of the other big
parts that I had to educate Justin on is let's
say you save them money. How do you know that
they're going to spend it how you would want them
to spend it? Right, There's no guarantee for that. They're
not going to ask you should we pay this receiver X.
Speaker 1 (25:19):
Right.
Speaker 4 (25:19):
It's funny you say that you don't usually see the
cap hits in the template that we use for all
of our negotiations, but in all of the quarterback deals,
because it always comes up in the quarterback negotiations. Every
team is saying, well, the cap hits this, this is
going to affect us, and then at some point someone
from the team mentions it to the player. You know,
we have to build around you as well. And so
(25:39):
it's something that we're educating the quarterbacks specifically on every
single time. So whether it be Dak Jordan, Deshaun Justin,
to all these guys like, it's something that ends up
at the bottom of the chart.
Speaker 2 (25:51):
Well, the other interesting part is once you get a
proposal from the team and you show justin listen, this
is where they're comfortable at. So even they underst stand
that the cap numbers are going to be big, you know,
So now you're negotiating, so at least educate listen. It's
not just us, Like the team understands this is what
you have to do.
Speaker 1 (26:09):
That's right.
Speaker 3 (26:10):
I think it's another benefit with agent and I keep
talking about like having done so many of these record
break and quarterback deals, Like it's a very strong argument
that the teams can make. But it's just wrong, you
know what I mean, And it is not right. It's
not completely true, right.
Speaker 1 (26:22):
It's the fallback. Yeah, blame it on the cap yep.
Speaker 3 (26:25):
And then the other part, like this is a whole
another episode, but we go into like okay, like you
also like you have twenty two starter off as a defense,
like some of them are gonna be rookies. You have
to draft well, right, and then you got to go
sign some mid tier veterans that outperform the contract. So
there's a lot more to put in championship team than
this spending the money.
Speaker 2 (26:42):
Which goes to the point that I was saving to Justin, like,
if you quote unquote save them money, do you trust
that they're going to spend it well?
Speaker 1 (26:50):
And you don't know that. You don't control the draft,
so and.
Speaker 3 (26:53):
They'll try their best and then and they're very good
at fining, you know. But all right, so that's philosophy.
Obviously this is a very special individual and you, guys,
your approach reflected it. It wasn't done in the media.
It was done quietly. It was done cooperaily, collaboratively. But
then a deal, like AJ walk us through what the
deal was.
Speaker 4 (27:13):
Yeah, so what we end up finalizing. It's a five
year extension two hundred and sixty two point five million dollars,
so it averages fifty two and a half which is
record break and highest average annual salary for any player
in NFL history. And it has two hundred and eighteen
point seven million dollars guaranteed in the deal, also record breaking.
(27:33):
But I want to ask you, do you remember when
we started the negotiation after having had that whole conversation
with Justin about no, we don't want to do a
ten year, twelve year, eight year fully guaranteed deal. The
first proposal that we actually ended up getting from the Chargers.
Speaker 2 (27:47):
Oh gosh, it must have been like an eight or
nine year extension. It was completely I love Ed Maguire
and his team, but it was like it was something
it was a first proposal, and it was not something
that we would ever consider, you know. I think we
Our counter was, Okay, if you want to play that game,
(28:07):
then we'll do a three year extension, right right.
Speaker 3 (28:09):
So it was eight year deal worth how I mean
you probably remember, but worth a little I mean over
twohndred million dollars for sure.
Speaker 4 (28:15):
Yeah, it was still still a very big sum of
money content.
Speaker 2 (28:20):
But it was it was below fifty million dollars per
year per year on ap Y. The guarantees vested early
and I'm sorry the guarantees ran out early because it
was eight years.
Speaker 1 (28:31):
So it was.
Speaker 2 (28:32):
Actually the concern that Justin had was, or what Justin
said wanted, was, I'll take a long term deal that's
with big guarantees.
Speaker 1 (28:40):
It was a long term deal with not enough guarantees.
Speaker 3 (28:43):
Starting point a start point.
Speaker 1 (28:45):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (28:45):
I think their rationale was, well, you know, we saw
Josh Allen at six years, We saw saw Patrick Mahomes
at ten years. Justin's just as good of a player,
we think in our minds, so we're going to give
him more, but it's going to be a split of
the difference. It's gonna be eight years and completely ignore
the fact that the sour cap had gone from X
to X over those those years.
Speaker 2 (29:02):
And I think, you know, they, like I said, understand
where Ed's coming from. They probably thought Justin such a
good guy that, you know, we'll get a both.
Speaker 1 (29:11):
Justin's a good guys, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (29:12):
Yeah, well, you know, but Tom Brady took less, took less,
you know to build his team, homestook lass.
Speaker 1 (29:18):
Justin will take leassy.
Speaker 3 (29:19):
But you guys, I mean you had the highest APO
average per year ever in the history of the NFL.
He had the highest guarantee ever in the history of
the NFL. Both big wins. Great for Justin his family,
his family to come for years. But there's another part
of the deal that I think was really stood out
to me when I was looking at the deal. What
was what was that so?
Speaker 4 (29:39):
And this might be the biggest accomplishment or milestone of
the deal from my perspective, you know, looking back, like, yes,
it's record breaking on the guarantees and the average, but
the cash flow of it was exceptionally strong and record breaking.
So a lot of times and I think our audience
may not understand that when you hear a contract is
an average of fifty two and a half million dollars
(30:01):
per year, that doesn't mean that the player makes fifty
two and a half million dollars every year. That's not
his his average or his annual salary. It's an average.
So when we're talking about the cash flow, we want
as much of it to be paid up front because
the money in your pocket you know you have and
then the time value money where is the sooner you
have it, the sooner you can start investing it, building
(30:21):
wealth off of its correct and across the NFL, there's
there's examples of deals that are going to be more backloaded,
like Patrick Mahomes deal, for example. It's it's a ten
year extension, but it averages less than forty million dollars
over the first four years of the deal, so then
it builds up to become an average of forty five
million dollars on the full ten years. There's deals like
(30:42):
Jalen Hurts where after the second year it averages fifty
one million, and then through year three, through year four,
through year five, it's still fifty one million dollars. Our
goal was to get as much of that money upfront
as possible, and when we finalize the deal, he ends
up with this, this record breaking number of one hundred
million dollars of new money through the first year of
(31:03):
the extension. And when we compare that to the previous record,
which was Lamar Jackson, who signed shortly before or maybe
after we had actually started the negotiation process, and he
was a guy who had played out all five years
of his rookie deal, he was facing the franchise tag.
He set that record for eighty million dollars in the
first new year of cash, and so our goal was
(31:26):
to blow past that, and that's exactly what we did,
was we finalized it with one hundred million dollars in
first year, first new year cash. And I think another
aspect of that is the deals that we compare justin
to because of the situation. Those were the Kyler Murray
a year prior, had done a deal with two years
left on his rookie contract. You had Josh Allen two
(31:49):
years before him, had two years left on his rookie contract.
And when you compare the cash flows of those deals,
where Kyler had.
Speaker 1 (31:57):
Was it.
Speaker 4 (31:59):
Seventy two million dollars in the first New year, Josh
Allen had sixty eight million dollars in the first New year.
So we took the exact same scenario with a player
three years into his career, two years left on his contract,
and absolutely Blue buy those guys. And I think that
was a huge accomplish.
Speaker 2 (32:18):
Right, Yeah, I think I remember seeing a chart that
you had put together that showed how, you know, everybody
had beaten the deal ahead of him by like either
hundreds of thousands or maybe like a million dollars in
new money. And again, like I don't know if you've
explained this on other episodes, but the concept of new money, right,
we're talking about so the first New year, so Justin
(32:39):
had two old years remaining at approximately thirty three million dollars.
Let's say, so if you take those two years and
the first New year, so year three, that means through
three years, he was going to pocket one hundred and
thirty three million dollars instead of the thirty three over two.
Just to kind of put that out there, But yeah,
for us, listen in it the total apy of fifty
(33:03):
two point five broke the record, right, Lamar's record.
Speaker 1 (33:07):
I believe it was.
Speaker 2 (33:08):
You know that wasn't similar to the Mark Andrews deal,
which you referenced before. I don't think that was our
biggest focus. Our biggest focus was cash flow and guarantee.
Justin really wanted the guarantee and I think his two
seventeen was the second most guarantee.
Speaker 4 (33:21):
It is the most at the time, uh with Deshaun Watson.
Speaker 1 (33:26):
Other than that's.
Speaker 3 (33:27):
Sorry, wait, who's the expert here?
Speaker 1 (33:31):
Switch seats No.
Speaker 3 (33:33):
Aside from Deshaun Watson also athletes first just DIVIID agent
David Willigeto.
Speaker 2 (33:37):
Episode two becoming Yes, Yeah, no, it was the second
most guarantee, right, So we checked that box. And then
the cash flow was obviously really important. So listen, You're
not always gonna win on every scenario, as you know.
And I think my kind of in doing it with
Mark and doing with Pena and doing with Justin, I'm
a big believer in I'll sacrifice the ap y for
(33:59):
more money up front because at the end of the day,
my belief is players aren't going to get to the
end of that contract, so you know, get as much
as they can you mentioned it before, put it in
their bank account, start investing it. That's where you can
really turn it into something else.
Speaker 3 (34:13):
You never know what's gonna happen to And my my
philosophy when I'm doing contracts is listen, like as much
money as you can put in your pocket right away,
you know. I mean, just Herbert is an amazing person.
He's not gonna get in trouble, nothing's gonna happen. But
just don't know what life's gonna come your way, right
And so I just want to get it all in there.
But I think one thing I do want to emphasize
before we move on to lessons learned is that you
said it's justin like every player is different, like we were.
(34:33):
We did not negotiate Patrick Mahomes deal or Josh Allen's deal.
We have no idea what was important to them. So
I'm sure they got exactly what they wanted, right. And
on the flip side, you when we talk about all
these great facets of the deal, I mean we didn't
win every aspect. I mean the Chargers got and the
Chargers had goals one. Everyone was doing a five year
deal instead a four year deal, right, which appenic goes
oude with Justin's goal. But you know, I mean, I
(34:54):
think it's every situation is different, and like you know,
the Chargers, like the Packers, like sometimes they're gonna pay
more money up front because that's just that works for
their family, that works for the team. So I think,
you know, when we do these deals, obviously we want
to go out and get the absolute best deal we
can for our players. We do that one hundred percent
of the time. But you know, both sides win, and
I think that's you know, that's we don't want to
(35:16):
lose track of that.
Speaker 2 (35:17):
I think it's it's the what is it the Michael
Scott win win win where you know, again it seems
cliche like you and I talked about kind of strategies.
Speaker 1 (35:26):
I mean, you won't like it when I say this is,
but like you.
Speaker 2 (35:31):
Want a cooperative result, right, Like a cooperative result and
where the team walks.
Speaker 1 (35:37):
Away, maybe a little unhappy because they did something they
didn't want to do.
Speaker 2 (35:40):
You walk away, maybe a little bit unhappy because you
left something on the table you didn't want to leave.
But like, at the end of the day, this won't
be the last negotiation you have with the team.
Speaker 1 (35:49):
That's the other part.
Speaker 3 (35:50):
And I think what I when you say that, that
is what you want as a lead negotiator for all
these deals we talked about. You're a collaborative person.
Speaker 1 (35:57):
That's Miami.
Speaker 3 (35:58):
As we'll see from other podcasts, it will not be
it might not be the same for all.
Speaker 1 (36:03):
It may not be that.
Speaker 3 (36:04):
And it all works. It all works well, only talking
about record break of deals here, so obviously it worked,
and we just get their different paths.
Speaker 1 (36:09):
You know that's exactly correct.
Speaker 3 (36:10):
All right, Well, listen, let's let's wrap up with the
lessons learned here. You know, what do we learn from this?
And I think you know my lesson learned here? And
again we think of this as we go. This to
is spontor here, but you know, listen to you talk
about Justin whatnot. It's just my lesson learned. Is just
a reminder how blessed we are to work with people
like Justin Herbert. I mean, just a family guy. And
(36:31):
I don't again, I don't know Justin like you do, right,
but just from a great family, a true leader, zero
ego from what I can see. You know, I'm not
in the locker room with them, but someone who like
you know, comes to your house, plays corn hole, spend
times with your kids, with your with your wife, goes
and walks through your neighborhood with you, trusts you and
the rest of the team to get him what he wants,
(36:52):
but also like rolls up and sleeves and understands every
single proposal going back and forth. I mean, we're lucky
to have uh Justin Herbert, the Chargers, Southern California is
lucky to have them. And that's my lesson learned today.
Just a reminder, you know, that's why we do put
the athletes first, because they're just such great.
Speaker 1 (37:09):
People, you know.
Speaker 3 (37:10):
And the twenty two year old coming down not knowing anybody,
you know, that's that's real, that's who he was. So
I'm thankful to Aim and you and that's a great
that was a great experience, great outcome.
Speaker 4 (37:20):
Yeah, I think my takeaway is, you know, this is
the athlete's first family podcast, and in hearing the story
about Justin basically coming down and spending all that time
with you and your family and becoming a part of
your family, it's exactly what we talk about when we say,
you know, our clients, our clients families, they all become
a part of our family. And I think that's a
prime example of that. I would even say that we
(37:41):
maybe make the silhouettes of Justin and Justin walking down
the sidewalk. It is like the logo of our podcast
going forward.
Speaker 3 (37:49):
I still can't believe that, like I'm like out there.
If I was more of my law or something, I'd
be like, Okay, I know that's the flag football coach
Justin Schulmann, but what is that Justin Herbert?
Speaker 2 (37:57):
The best is literally some people would know that we
were out and go wait for us to get to
them for an autograph or something like that.
Speaker 1 (38:03):
From both of you, not from both of us. Listen.
Speaker 2 (38:05):
What I learned from this experience with him is this
goes back to our previous episode is you know, you
gotta love what you do. And I loved educating him,
like and walking him through the process and also.
Speaker 1 (38:17):
Hearing from him what was important.
Speaker 2 (38:19):
I think so many times it could just be hey,
the client wants this doesn't matter, I'm gonna go do
what I think is best for the client. But educating
him and hearing what was important to him, and you know, again,
what was important to him was find a way to
be the charges quarterback long term and you know, do
it quietly and positively, and we accomplished it.
Speaker 3 (38:38):
So yeah, great deal, Congratulations to the deal, Congratulations on
the client and a wonderful career. We appreciate you hanging
out with us for a couple episodes.
Speaker 1 (38:48):
What's next, What you got next?
Speaker 3 (38:49):
Next, we got our equity partner, Ryan Williams. We're gonna
talk about Ryan Williams and all his great journey from
intern to student manager at UCLA to equity partner in
athletes first and his tour deal, which again you know,
both came out the same draft and uh, but very
different paths to where they got. But both both, you guys,
got the record breaking deals, so we'll go forward to it.
Speaker 1 (39:10):
Awesome, Thanks guys, Thanks
In Justin's mind, and he knowed no different.
Speaker 2 (00:02):
He's like, let's go get the highest guarantee and the
longest contract you can get because he wanted to be
you know, to your point, what did he think of
the Chargers. He wanted to be their franchise quarterback for
a long time. So, you know, Justin, I spent a
lot of time talking about the pros and cons of that,
you know, and we looked at other contracts and educated
him about the you know, the dangers of doing the
(00:24):
long term deal, a long term deal more than a
four or five year extension.
Speaker 3 (00:33):
Welcome to the next episode of the Athletes First family
podcast series featuring quarterback deals. I am Brian Murphy, CEO
of Athletes First, along with my trusted sidekick and co
host AJ Stevens, who is our VP of Client Strategy
and arguably one of the best negotiators in the game,
if not the best. Welcome Aj, Thanks Merph.
Speaker 4 (00:54):
The purpose of this podcast is to give our listeners
an inside view of the largest and most success full
NFL football agency in the industry. Our expertise in quarterbacks
is the crux of this series, and today we have
Justin Schulman back to talk with us about the Justin
Herbert negotiation, your relationship with Justin and everything in between.
Speaker 3 (01:16):
Could it be back, guys, thanks for coming back, Justin.
Great to see you again. But aj I wanna juggle
into Justin Herberts d in the relationship and recruiting and
everything that. But before we do, let's give the audience
a little bit of a feel for the other record breaking,
huge deals that Justin's led our negotiations.
Speaker 4 (01:33):
Yeah, so Justin's got a great resume. The first deal
that I got to work with you on was Fred Warners.
He became the highest paid linebacker in NFL history. It
was a difficult one at the time. We had to
come up with a unique structure to get that one
past the finish line, but ended up being the record
breaking deal that it is. And then also Mark Andrews,
(01:56):
he signed the largest four year contract for a tight
end NFL history at the time. Uh, in total ap y,
it was the second largest for a tight end. But uh,
you know, the average salary is not how we judge
all of these deals. There's a lot of other aspects
to it. He had the best cash flow through the
first couple of years and the largest guarantee at signing,
(02:17):
so all of that was was a big win for us.
Speaker 3 (02:19):
And seeing cash flow as we've you know, worked on
friar Mouth Steel and cole Co met Steel, we keep
looking at that cas like, how did how did you
get that cash let?
Speaker 4 (02:26):
It was right, yeah, it was. It was great that way.
And then with this year you had Penne Sewell who
was the highest paid tackle in NFL history, and it
was the first time that a right tackle because he's
only played right tackle his entire career so far in
the NFL, the first time a right tackle became the
highest paid tackle in the NFL. So that was a
(02:47):
huge accomplishment there.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
Yeah, No, all three great deals. All really proud of
those and uh looking forward to more.
Speaker 1 (02:53):
Of course.
Speaker 3 (02:55):
Did that with Panel Joe Panels as well. Phenomenal deal
and at Unite from the Ryan Ramchick to you know
how hard it is to get a right tackle to
be the highest paid you know. So that's remarkable history,
that's great, that's awesome. But today we're here to talk
about your relationship with Justin Herbert. Two amazing individuals who
have come together informed what I'd say is a great
(03:16):
friendship and a great working relationship. Tell us a little
bit about like, how did you start recruiting Justin Herbert?
What was that process?
Speaker 1 (03:23):
Like? Yeah, so Justin.
Speaker 2 (03:25):
It turns out the family was really close with a
client of ours, Justin Wilcox and Dave Done, one of
our founders, is really close with the Wilcox family and
was able to get in contact with the Herberts and
had a preliminary discussion and set up a meeting and
asked me to attend, and it was great. Dave and
I went up sat with Justin and excuse me, Justin's parents.
(03:47):
Justin wasn't involved in the process. I think this summer
before his senior season to Eugene Organ. Justin ironically born
and raised in Eugene Organ and then played in Eugene Organ,
so I hadn't really left well in Oregon is his
home I think is about a mile and a half
from the stadium in Autin.
Speaker 3 (04:04):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (04:05):
So Dave brought me on board to help with that
recruit and we had a great meeting. Turns out we
had a very very small world connection. Found out that
a close family friend of Justin's mom was someone who
actually I worked very closely with on the Athlete first Classic,
our charity event back I think when.
Speaker 1 (04:26):
We started in two thousand and four.
Speaker 2 (04:27):
Wow, just very very randomly, Justin's mom and she grew
up together, which was great because it was able to
give the Herbert family some kind of validation as to
who we were. But we did that initial meeting and
formed an initial contact, and Justin was really not involved
in the process.
Speaker 1 (04:46):
Pushed everything on to his parents.
Speaker 2 (04:48):
So we stayed in touch with him, and then finally
once I think it was he beat Wisconsin in the
Rose Bowl. Shortly thereafter, we did our first and only
real sit down with Justin.
Speaker 3 (04:59):
So your first meeting was before the season began, before
his final season began.
Speaker 1 (05:03):
Correct, with his family and parents are just his parents.
Speaker 2 (05:06):
Ironically, his brother, younger brother Patrick, who plays for Oregon,
walked in I think with laundry, but no, it was
just just the two of them.
Speaker 3 (05:15):
That's great, that's great. And then you went, did you
go nat in the games?
Speaker 1 (05:18):
I did.
Speaker 2 (05:18):
I went and spend some time at a game, saw
his folks at the game. Didn't bother Justin because Justin
again was just focused on football. So we ran everything
through his parents. Got a great relationship with Holly and
Mark his parents and were able to kind of learn
about Justin through them, and then once the season ended,
they they kind of engaged the process again.
Speaker 1 (05:40):
If you will.
Speaker 3 (05:40):
And what did his parents are eventually Justin? Like, what
do they say they were looking for in an agency?
Speaker 1 (05:46):
You know?
Speaker 2 (05:46):
I think the thing that stood out to me just
was they wanted just someone to take care of their
son and to educate them and make sure they had
their sons back. And like I mentioned Mark and Holly,
just you know, good people down home, no ego, and
that was very evident in Justin. He's just one of
the most humble, hard working people there is. And you know,
(06:10):
for them, I think it was just about who can
take care of them? You know, who can who can
take care of them? The family atmosphere I think was important.
Obviously the fact that Dave had connections with the will
Cox family and the Wilcoxes were able to connect and
put you know, the dots together all helped.
Speaker 3 (06:25):
Did they have any connection to Joey Harrington, one of
our first clients.
Speaker 2 (06:28):
Yeah, you know, I think I'm almost positive there were
pictures of Justin wearing Joey's jersey when he was younger,
so Obviously the Organ connection helped as well, and I
believe Dave got him involved. And we've represented you know,
Kellen Clemens and other Organ players, Adam Snyder as well,
So we were able to really kind of work the
entire network. Sure, And and you know, whether it was
(06:48):
Chip Kelly or Dana Altman, their basketball coach, you know,
there was a lot of inns that that we looked at.
Speaker 3 (06:55):
I think when you have those many mutual contacts, you know,
I think it builds up some trust, right, like if
you worked with Joey Harrington or a J Feely or
Kellen Clemens and we know we can trust you. But like, ultimately,
I think what we say is the fact that we,
you know, worked for Kellen Clemens doesn't mean that and
he enjoyed it, doesn't mean that we're the right for
(07:16):
Justin Herbert.
Speaker 1 (07:16):
That's right.
Speaker 3 (07:17):
And so at the meeting after the bowl game, Justin
Herbert walks in, what's your first impression of Justin?
Speaker 2 (07:24):
He looks the part I mean that was just you know,
he looks like what a franchise quarterback should look like.
And just the way he listened and some of the questions,
the way he paid attention to it. We're just really impressive,
you know, again digging into contracts and how we would
handle things like training and whatnot, and hearing what was
important to him.
Speaker 1 (07:44):
You know.
Speaker 2 (07:45):
Something that struck me he didn't have a quarterback coach
that was kind of his guy and a player. I
represented John Beck as a renowned kind of quarterback coach
for college and pro quarterbacks, big hunter Fisherman, just like Justin,
and ironically Justin was interested in talking to him. We
(08:05):
had John Flapp the next day and they sat down
and just hit it off. And so again it was
just trying to build you know, the team around. It
just kind of made sense. But he Justin's an impressive guy.
Speaker 1 (08:15):
Yep.
Speaker 3 (08:16):
And kind of interesting because I think that year in
the draft, we represented Tua for all of his marketing
and off field endeavors, but not his contract, and then
Justin called you and Dave and said, hey, I want
I'm going to hire you for a contract but not
the marketing. So in that way we did work with
both Tua and Herbert in the draft. And when did
you find out that Justin was going to hire athletes first?
Speaker 2 (08:37):
So I think it was the two days after we
did our meeting. Well, we did the meeting. John Beck
flew up that the next day to meet with him.
We stayed in town and then I think it was
the next day Justin called Dave let him know he
was going to wanted to start. I got involved in
terms of getting all the logistics together, and I think
we flew Justin down that night, so four to eight
(08:58):
hours after the meeting and we to work. And you know,
for Justin, it was really his first time living outside
of Oregon, so you know, it was it was definitely
all new to him, so it was great to spend
that time with him. During the training program, went to
the Senior Bowl, went to the Combine, killed it at
both and then ironically we were up for his pro
(09:19):
day and that's when the world shut down for COVID.
Speaker 1 (09:22):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (09:23):
So you know, it was a very unique time period
during the draft. Right the draft was done, virtually we
weren't allowed to be with him. And then when he
moved down here, when he signed with the Chargers, he
moved down here, he really didn't know anybody. So he's
down here during COVID doesn't really know anybody. So we
kind of adopted him as our third child and he
would spend a lot of time at the house and
(09:44):
and you know, I think it was helpful to ease
that transition to a completely new place.
Speaker 3 (09:48):
So when you see down here Orange County, you live
in Orange County. Ye, he was drafted by the Charger
Chargers and were you was it? How was the draft?
I know you weren't with him. You probably talked to
him on the phone, like was that a surprise?
Speaker 1 (09:59):
Was it?
Speaker 2 (10:00):
You know, we knew that obviously there were teams in
that area, Miami, so Joe Burrow was clearly the number
one pick, and then you got into some other teams
in that area. I think Miami had the fifth pick
and the Chargers had the sixth pick. And I just
remember Tom Telasco, their general manager, after the Dolphins chose
to sent me lightning bolts. So that was the sign
(10:20):
it was going to be Justin. I know, you know,
there was some questions about what Jacksonville I think was
at nine in the draft, had done some work on
him and whatnot. But yeah, get the message from Justin
and we were all just fired up.
Speaker 3 (10:33):
So like most people think about Justin Herbert franchise quarterback,
Pro Bowl quarterback. You know, you said, he looks the part.
He plays the part. But you know, at the time,
he was twenty two years old, moving down Orange County,
leaving Eugene, Oregon for the first time. As you said,
COVID's here, so it's kind of a strange only place.
So you live at home with your wife and two
(10:54):
kids at the time, right, So he just came to
your house and hung out.
Speaker 2 (10:58):
Yeah, we would just have him over, whether it was
for food or whether it was you know, we play
board games or anything like that. You know, once the
world opened up a little bit, it was you know,
go do an escape room or things like that. You know,
Justin's just a normal guy and that's the best part
about him.
Speaker 1 (11:12):
You know. We we did spend a bunch of time
on the golf course. He's really good and I am not.
Speaker 2 (11:17):
Yeah, but yeah, it was you know, he didn't live
far away. We helped, you know, find the apartment and
help him get settled and everything like that. And then
you know, there was the beauty of having him done
in Orange County when the team was located here.
Speaker 1 (11:29):
He ended up living about.
Speaker 2 (11:30):
A mile and a half from my house, and uh,
you know, we would provide a refuge I think for him,
he was comfortable with my family and uh and yeah,
so whether it was cornhole, ping pong, there was always
a competition.
Speaker 3 (11:42):
Did you ever win a competition?
Speaker 2 (11:46):
You know, it's funny. He is competitive and that's what
makes him great. But you know, I would say there
was some there was some good competitions. It was him
and my son against me and my daughter in cornhole routinely,
and yeah, no, it was a lot of fun. And
again he just traded my family so well and really
appreciate it.
Speaker 4 (12:06):
But yeah, usually the losing team says it was a
lot of fun.
Speaker 3 (12:10):
Yeah, yeah, it's a ton of fun.
Speaker 1 (12:12):
Yeah, no comment. That's great.
Speaker 3 (12:14):
So he's drafted by the Chargers. He's down here beating
you at every sport you play, and then just walked
us through like he's on his rookie deal. Like how
the first couple of years of his career go.
Speaker 2 (12:23):
You know, I think there was that expectation that he
wasn't going to play, and I think, you know, frankly,
I was hoping he wasn't really going to play. Tyrod
Taylor was brought in to be the starring quarterback that year,
and I want to say it was week two or
three early in the season against the Kinsas City Chiefs,
where I turned it on and justin starting and that
was the whole episode where Tyrod got an injection before
(12:46):
the game and had an adverse reaction and whatnot, and.
Speaker 1 (12:50):
It was just kind of a shock. And I just
remember I called him after the game.
Speaker 2 (12:54):
I said, come over to the house, like, let's have dinner,
and he walked in. He was like, holy cow, and
it was you know, he went on to play really
really well that year and kind of but that was
never the expectation. I don't think that was the team's expectation.
I don't think that was his expectation. But he was
able to build from there. I think year two was
the Pro Bowl year. You know, he makes his first
(13:15):
Pro Bowl and you know, year three, I think it
was the Playoff his first Playoff game. So there was that,
you know, progression through the years.
Speaker 3 (13:23):
Yeah, yeah, no, I mean a great career, a great
start to the career first three years, like you said,
surprisingly early start, but he rose to the challenge and
did a great job. Like how did how did he
like his Orange County Chargers experience during those years?
Speaker 2 (13:38):
You know, I think he loves the franchise. You know,
it still does, loves the franchise and feels loyal to them.
I mean, he grew up ironically, I'm sure everybody saw
it like either wearing a Chargers jersey or writing that
he was going to play quarterback for the Chargers when
he was a kid. So it was all it was
all great, especially because the family was not too far away.
Speaker 1 (13:58):
Oregon's not too not too far away.
Speaker 2 (13:59):
But it really enjoyed the organization and the coaches that
he got to work with, established some really good connections
and you know, definitely was a place where he wants
to be, wanted to be long term.
Speaker 3 (14:10):
Okay, And so then he's he's he's clearly a team leader.
And we have we have a lot of players on
the Raiders, including like Derwin James, like you know, he's
been a captain and a leader for a long time.
And the Chargers yep, sorry, and uh it's in. And
then you know at the end of year three that
so you played three years in the league on your
rookie contract. After your third year, you can negotiate, you
negotiate your veteran.
Speaker 2 (14:30):
Deal and and which is pretty standard right in this
day and age it's.
Speaker 4 (14:35):
In the CBA, you're not allowed to negotiate an extension
until after the third year, right, So that's the first
time that the team can even approach a player about it.
Speaker 2 (14:43):
And I think history has shown like if you have
a guy, you want to get that done after the
third year or at least start the process.
Speaker 1 (14:49):
So that's when it started for.
Speaker 3 (14:51):
Us, So like right after the last game that season,
or at what point I.
Speaker 2 (14:55):
Think we had our first initial discussion at the combine
of him. So February, following the season and right before
free agency, sat down with a couple of their executives
and they had expressed an interest to start working on
the process. They did say it would be, you know,
after the draft. They wanted to get through the draft,
but to them it was a priority. He was their
(15:17):
cornerstone and wanted to have a you know, wanted to
get that get that done. They started planting seeds about
it being a team friendly deal and what that would
mean to them and everything like that. John was span us,
was very very bullish on that, did not not pulling
any punches, and so we had that initial discussion at
(15:39):
the combine and we agreed to touch base later after
the draft happened, we set up a lunch at Javier's
of all places, a great, great Mexican place here in
southern California. So we met, I think it was three
folks from the Chargers and Dave Done and myself and
met at lunch, talked again, more philosophically, more than anything,
(16:00):
about what was important to the team, what was important
to Justin and and those those things, and how the
market had changed, because I believe at that point Jalen
Hurts had done his contract and had become the first
fifty million dollar player.
Speaker 4 (16:15):
Yeah, and then Lamar quickly followed him.
Speaker 1 (16:17):
That's correct.
Speaker 2 (16:17):
So I think we did ours after I think when
we started the process, I don't know if Lamar was done,
but Jalen had just done his extension and was in
a similar situation. Three played three years, He had one
year left on his contract, right, But you know, we
knew that all these things were going to happen. Lamar
had just been franchised, I believe it was, so it
was coming off the franchise tag. So you know, at
(16:40):
that lunch we kind of talked philosophically about it.
Speaker 1 (16:42):
So that call that.
Speaker 3 (16:43):
May okay, And then so I mean, one thing we
talked about athletes first is like, you know, every negotiation
is different, Like this whole series talk about Dax deal
and Deshaun Watson's deal and Jordan Love's deal, Tours deal
and Herb Justin's deal. But you know, I think every
agent's different in terms of how the lead negotiator.
Speaker 1 (16:59):
But I think each.
Speaker 3 (17:01):
Agent does the same thing. They have to have the
negotiation process be reflective of the person for whom they negotiate, right,
And so tell us a little bit like when you
sat down with Justin and you probably could have guessed
because you guys are so close, but like, what did
like what what did Justin want that I'm guessing Justin
didn't want you using the media and slamming the table
right like you want a different protech? What was that
(17:22):
approach going to be?
Speaker 2 (17:22):
Like, hey, it's a great point whereph like this one
in my mind was going to reflect Justin the person,
which was we wanted something that was strong, something that
set the market, but that helped the team accomplish some
of their goals. It was not going to be contentious,
It was not going to be negotiating the media when
(17:44):
it got done. Not that it was going to be
a surprise that it was done, but it wasn't going
to be everybody watching the clock to see when the
deal was done. You know, in our mind, it was
we wanted to get it done before training camp, before
he stepped on the field and you know, took some hits.
That was the ideal goal, and I think the Chargers
had the same goal. So, you know, we spent a
lot of time educating Justin about the market, and you know, frankly,
(18:09):
this is why you hire an agent. He wasn't familiar
with things like cash flow, guarantees, term you know, in
Justin's mind and he knowed no different. He's like, let's
go get the highest guarantee and the longest contract you
can get because he wanted to be you know, to
your point, what did he think of the Chargers. He
wanted to be their franchise quarterback for a long time. So,
you know, Justin I spent a lot of time talking
(18:31):
about the pros and cons of that, you know, and
we looked at other contracts and educated him about the
you know, the dangers of doing a long term deal,
a long term deal more than a four or five
year extension. But understood that guarantee was important to Justin
and he wanted to not go somewhere. He wanted to
go somewhere and then be somewhere. He wanted that commitment.
(18:53):
He also wanted the team to be able to build.
He didn't want to be in the contract to be
an albatross. So we spent a lot of time that
off season, uh, kind of educating him every you know,
every time he would come over to the house a
lot and we would actually go for walks three to
four times a week.
Speaker 1 (19:14):
We would go to in our neighborhood and Justin Herbert.
Speaker 2 (19:19):
We would you know, two three four times a week.
We would do five six mile hikes and talk about life,
but then also talk about the contract and what was
important to him and whatnot. You know, every time we
made a proposal, every time they made a proposal, you know,
we had a kind of a running template that we
would show him as to how the contract was working
and how things changed and a special and a special no.
(19:44):
It was great, you know, working with a John it
was tremendous because it was able to bounce different ideas
off of it. We looked at some of the other
contracts and the pros and cons and tried to take
everything and I know, you know, candidly you probably would
have liked a shorter deal, right, and but you understood
from the cl perspective he wanted a little bit longer deal.
Speaker 4 (20:02):
Now, I think the focus was the guarantees, and in
order to get those bigger guarantees you have to add
on another year. Is really the give and take we
were looking at. And you know, when you're looking at
the market, of course Justin's first thought is, well, why
don't I just do a ten year deal fully guaranteed
and we'll go that way, And then you have to
sit and educate him on well, teams aren't going to
do a fully guaranteed deal at that length. And then
(20:24):
you have to you really have to peel it all
back and explain to him, well, here's a ten year
deal that is in the market. It has been done.
But here's the downside.
Speaker 1 (20:33):
This guy who.
Speaker 4 (20:33):
Signed it in twenty twenty on a ten year extension,
the market has gone up fifteen million dollars per year
in four years or a year later, a guy just
Josh Allen signs in twenty twenty one for forty three
million dollars per year. It's only been three years and
he's been bypassed by seventeen million dollars per year. And
so explaining that to justin that if you signed for
(20:55):
this now in two years, three years from now, it's
going to look like a discount for the charge is
just naturally because that's how the markets move. And so
when he started to understand that, I think it was
a big step in where we could go structure.
Speaker 1 (21:08):
One hundred percent.
Speaker 2 (21:09):
And you know, I think when you look at it now,
I think he's now the seventh highest paid right and
we're talking about fifteen months since he did his deal.
But you bring up, you know, the Patrick Mahomes really
long extension. The team didn't have to touch Patrick's deal
if they didn't want to, but obviously, with Patrick's success,
you want to do that. And obviously we can't question
(21:29):
why he chose that route or why Josh Allen chose
his route of a longer extension as well. But for
us educating him about the changing market, and most importantly,
I mean we haven't said it yet, the growth of
the salary cap.
Speaker 1 (21:42):
That's the reason it was.
Speaker 2 (21:44):
The extreme ballooning of the salary cap is why you
want to get to the market, back to the market sooner.
I mean, at the end of the day, they're making
a ton of money, but there's a reason it's the
highest paid position in sports. And you know, the shorter
deal gets you back to the market again.
Speaker 3 (22:00):
Go So, like, I think exactly you just said. Our goal,
we're supposed to educate our clients, give them all the information,
educate to empower, and then they have to decide what
they want to do, right, and we give them advice.
Speaker 1 (22:10):
Right.
Speaker 3 (22:11):
But we've done the largest deal in NFL history twelve times.
Speaker 1 (22:14):
For quarterback right over our career.
Speaker 3 (22:16):
And I think all twelve times the team came said,
oh listen, quarterback, if you want to get all this money,
we're not gonna be able in a super Bowl.
Speaker 1 (22:23):
Right.
Speaker 3 (22:23):
It says like I said, John Spannel is probably his
go to line, right, heard that a million times from
But like you know, and that's if I'm justin Herbert,
Especially if someone just't Herbert, who cares so much about
winning his teammate, he'd be, oh, listen, I don't I
don't need that much money if it's going to hurt
the team. So when the Chargers said that to you
and it's a genuine concern of justice. Right, he is
(22:44):
an authentic concern. He's really I don't want to I'd
rather win a Super Bowl than maximize my contract for sure.
Speaker 1 (22:49):
Right. How did you guys deal with that?
Speaker 3 (22:51):
What was the response?
Speaker 2 (22:52):
You know, I think the biggest part is educating him
on cash and cap are two completely different things. And
whereas cash isn't really fible, this is how much cash
you're going to make, how it affects the salary cap
can be manipulated. Every team has a way to do it,
whether it's you can kick the can down the road,
you can bite the bullet and take a little bit
(23:13):
more this year. And you know, when the structure that
we ended up working with the Chargers, his cap numbers
are fairly manageable.
Speaker 1 (23:23):
Right.
Speaker 4 (23:23):
Yeah, I remember including you talk about the template that
we would show to justin every single proposal that would
come in and go out, we had lines in there
that showed what the salary cap hit would be in
each year of the deal from the Chargers proposal and
then from our proposal, and so we could easily show
him it's the exact same cap hit over year one,
(23:43):
year two, year three, and it really isn't going to
affect their position as far as building a roster or
a team around you until maybe year five. So when
we actually finalize the deal, the cap hit in the
first year is it's four million dollars. And remember this
is a deal that averaged is fifty two and a
half million dollars per year. It never actually exceeds a
(24:04):
forty seven million dollar cap hit until after the fourth
year of the contract. So it's one of those things where, yes,
the team is working with a finite set of resources,
but they can be manipulated when it comes to the
salary cap, no doubt.
Speaker 2 (24:18):
And I think there was a couple of other things, right.
The team didn't want to fully guarantee things at the
very beginning because of an archaic funding rule that probably
should go away. Shockingly it hasn't. But you know, we
worked with them on their structure, right, So, Okay, what
was important to you the funding portion of it? All right, fine,
then let's work around and find ways to get through that.
(24:41):
What's important to us guaranteeing cash flow. So if you
focus on those two things, okay, quid quote quid pro
quote will help you. You help us, I will say,
and you brought it up. This was the first negotiation
I think I've done with a client where literally when
we share the information, we include the cap you know, ramifications,
And that was because it was a fulk for him.
(25:01):
And I think, you know, one of the other big
parts that I had to educate Justin on is let's
say you save them money. How do you know that
they're going to spend it how you would want them
to spend it? Right, There's no guarantee for that. They're
not going to ask you should we pay this receiver X.
Speaker 1 (25:19):
Right.
Speaker 4 (25:19):
It's funny you say that you don't usually see the
cap hits in the template that we use for all
of our negotiations, but in all of the quarterback deals,
because it always comes up in the quarterback negotiations. Every
team is saying, well, the cap hits this, this is
going to affect us, and then at some point someone
from the team mentions it to the player. You know,
we have to build around you as well. And so
(25:39):
it's something that we're educating the quarterbacks specifically on every
single time. So whether it be Dak Jordan, Deshaun Justin,
to all these guys like, it's something that ends up
at the bottom of the chart.
Speaker 2 (25:51):
Well, the other interesting part is once you get a
proposal from the team and you show justin listen, this
is where they're comfortable at. So even they underst stand
that the cap numbers are going to be big, you know,
So now you're negotiating, so at least educate listen. It's
not just us, Like the team understands this is what
you have to do.
Speaker 1 (26:09):
That's right.
Speaker 3 (26:10):
I think it's another benefit with agent and I keep
talking about like having done so many of these record
break and quarterback deals, Like it's a very strong argument
that the teams can make. But it's just wrong, you
know what I mean, And it is not right. It's
not completely true, right.
Speaker 1 (26:22):
It's the fallback. Yeah, blame it on the cap yep.
Speaker 3 (26:25):
And then the other part, like this is a whole
another episode, but we go into like okay, like you
also like you have twenty two starter off as a defense,
like some of them are gonna be rookies. You have
to draft well, right, and then you got to go
sign some mid tier veterans that outperform the contract. So
there's a lot more to put in championship team than
this spending the money.
Speaker 2 (26:42):
Which goes to the point that I was saving to Justin, like,
if you quote unquote save them money, do you trust
that they're going to spend it well?
Speaker 1 (26:50):
And you don't know that. You don't control the draft,
so and.
Speaker 3 (26:53):
They'll try their best and then and they're very good
at fining, you know. But all right, so that's philosophy.
Obviously this is a very special individual and you, guys,
your approach reflected it. It wasn't done in the media.
It was done quietly. It was done cooperaily, collaboratively. But
then a deal, like AJ walk us through what the
deal was.
Speaker 4 (27:13):
Yeah, so what we end up finalizing. It's a five
year extension two hundred and sixty two point five million dollars,
so it averages fifty two and a half which is
record break and highest average annual salary for any player
in NFL history. And it has two hundred and eighteen
point seven million dollars guaranteed in the deal, also record breaking.
(27:33):
But I want to ask you, do you remember when
we started the negotiation after having had that whole conversation
with Justin about no, we don't want to do a
ten year, twelve year, eight year fully guaranteed deal. The
first proposal that we actually ended up getting from the Chargers.
Speaker 2 (27:47):
Oh gosh, it must have been like an eight or
nine year extension. It was completely I love Ed Maguire
and his team, but it was like it was something
it was a first proposal, and it was not something
that we would ever consider, you know. I think we
Our counter was, Okay, if you want to play that game,
(28:07):
then we'll do a three year extension, right right.
Speaker 3 (28:09):
So it was eight year deal worth how I mean
you probably remember, but worth a little I mean over
twohndred million dollars for sure.
Speaker 4 (28:15):
Yeah, it was still still a very big sum of
money content.
Speaker 2 (28:20):
But it was it was below fifty million dollars per
year per year on ap Y. The guarantees vested early
and I'm sorry the guarantees ran out early because it
was eight years.
Speaker 1 (28:31):
So it was.
Speaker 2 (28:32):
Actually the concern that Justin had was, or what Justin
said wanted, was, I'll take a long term deal that's
with big guarantees.
Speaker 1 (28:40):
It was a long term deal with not enough guarantees.
Speaker 3 (28:43):
Starting point a start point.
Speaker 1 (28:45):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (28:45):
I think their rationale was, well, you know, we saw
Josh Allen at six years, We saw saw Patrick Mahomes
at ten years. Justin's just as good of a player,
we think in our minds, so we're going to give
him more, but it's going to be a split of
the difference. It's gonna be eight years and completely ignore
the fact that the sour cap had gone from X
to X over those those years.
Speaker 2 (29:02):
And I think, you know, they, like I said, understand
where Ed's coming from. They probably thought Justin such a
good guy that, you know, we'll get a both.
Speaker 1 (29:11):
Justin's a good guys, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (29:12):
Yeah, well, you know, but Tom Brady took less, took less,
you know to build his team, homestook lass.
Speaker 1 (29:18):
Justin will take leassy.
Speaker 3 (29:19):
But you guys, I mean you had the highest APO
average per year ever in the history of the NFL.
He had the highest guarantee ever in the history of
the NFL. Both big wins. Great for Justin his family,
his family to come for years. But there's another part
of the deal that I think was really stood out
to me when I was looking at the deal. What
was what was that so?
Speaker 4 (29:39):
And this might be the biggest accomplishment or milestone of
the deal from my perspective, you know, looking back, like, yes,
it's record breaking on the guarantees and the average, but
the cash flow of it was exceptionally strong and record breaking.
So a lot of times and I think our audience
may not understand that when you hear a contract is
an average of fifty two and a half million dollars
(30:01):
per year, that doesn't mean that the player makes fifty
two and a half million dollars every year. That's not
his his average or his annual salary. It's an average.
So when we're talking about the cash flow, we want
as much of it to be paid up front because
the money in your pocket you know you have and
then the time value money where is the sooner you
have it, the sooner you can start investing it, building
(30:21):
wealth off of its correct and across the NFL, there's
there's examples of deals that are going to be more backloaded,
like Patrick Mahomes deal, for example. It's it's a ten
year extension, but it averages less than forty million dollars
over the first four years of the deal, so then
it builds up to become an average of forty five
million dollars on the full ten years. There's deals like
(30:42):
Jalen Hurts where after the second year it averages fifty
one million, and then through year three, through year four,
through year five, it's still fifty one million dollars. Our
goal was to get as much of that money upfront
as possible, and when we finalize the deal, he ends
up with this, this record breaking number of one hundred
million dollars of new money through the first year of
(31:03):
the extension. And when we compare that to the previous record,
which was Lamar Jackson, who signed shortly before or maybe
after we had actually started the negotiation process, and he
was a guy who had played out all five years
of his rookie deal, he was facing the franchise tag.
He set that record for eighty million dollars in the
first new year of cash, and so our goal was
(31:26):
to blow past that, and that's exactly what we did,
was we finalized it with one hundred million dollars in
first year, first new year cash. And I think another
aspect of that is the deals that we compare justin
to because of the situation. Those were the Kyler Murray
a year prior, had done a deal with two years
left on his rookie contract. You had Josh Allen two
(31:49):
years before him, had two years left on his rookie contract.
And when you compare the cash flows of those deals,
where Kyler had.
Speaker 1 (31:57):
Was it.
Speaker 4 (31:59):
Seventy two million dollars in the first New year, Josh
Allen had sixty eight million dollars in the first New year.
So we took the exact same scenario with a player
three years into his career, two years left on his contract,
and absolutely Blue buy those guys. And I think that
was a huge accomplish.
Speaker 2 (32:18):
Right, Yeah, I think I remember seeing a chart that
you had put together that showed how, you know, everybody
had beaten the deal ahead of him by like either
hundreds of thousands or maybe like a million dollars in
new money. And again, like I don't know if you've
explained this on other episodes, but the concept of new money, right,
we're talking about so the first New year, so Justin
(32:39):
had two old years remaining at approximately thirty three million dollars.
Let's say, so if you take those two years and
the first New year, so year three, that means through
three years, he was going to pocket one hundred and
thirty three million dollars instead of the thirty three over two.
Just to kind of put that out there, But yeah,
for us, listen in it the total apy of fifty
(33:03):
two point five broke the record, right, Lamar's record.
Speaker 1 (33:07):
I believe it was.
Speaker 2 (33:08):
You know that wasn't similar to the Mark Andrews deal,
which you referenced before. I don't think that was our
biggest focus. Our biggest focus was cash flow and guarantee.
Justin really wanted the guarantee and I think his two
seventeen was the second most guarantee.
Speaker 4 (33:21):
It is the most at the time, uh with Deshaun Watson.
Speaker 1 (33:26):
Other than that's.
Speaker 3 (33:27):
Sorry, wait, who's the expert here?
Speaker 1 (33:31):
Switch seats No.
Speaker 3 (33:33):
Aside from Deshaun Watson also athletes first just DIVIID agent
David Willigeto.
Speaker 2 (33:37):
Episode two becoming Yes, Yeah, no, it was the second
most guarantee, right, So we checked that box. And then
the cash flow was obviously really important. So listen, You're
not always gonna win on every scenario, as you know.
And I think my kind of in doing it with
Mark and doing with Pena and doing with Justin, I'm
a big believer in I'll sacrifice the ap y for
(33:59):
more money up front because at the end of the day,
my belief is players aren't going to get to the
end of that contract, so you know, get as much
as they can you mentioned it before, put it in
their bank account, start investing it. That's where you can
really turn it into something else.
Speaker 3 (34:13):
You never know what's gonna happen to And my my
philosophy when I'm doing contracts is listen, like as much
money as you can put in your pocket right away,
you know. I mean, just Herbert is an amazing person.
He's not gonna get in trouble, nothing's gonna happen. But
just don't know what life's gonna come your way, right
And so I just want to get it all in there.
But I think one thing I do want to emphasize
before we move on to lessons learned is that you
said it's justin like every player is different, like we were.
(34:33):
We did not negotiate Patrick Mahomes deal or Josh Allen's deal.
We have no idea what was important to them. So
I'm sure they got exactly what they wanted, right. And
on the flip side, you when we talk about all
these great facets of the deal, I mean we didn't
win every aspect. I mean the Chargers got and the
Chargers had goals one. Everyone was doing a five year
deal instead a four year deal, right, which appenic goes
oude with Justin's goal. But you know, I mean, I
(34:54):
think it's every situation is different, and like you know,
the Chargers, like the Packers, like sometimes they're gonna pay
more money up front because that's just that works for
their family, that works for the team. So I think,
you know, when we do these deals, obviously we want
to go out and get the absolute best deal we
can for our players. We do that one hundred percent
of the time. But you know, both sides win, and
I think that's you know, that's we don't want to
(35:16):
lose track of that.
Speaker 2 (35:17):
I think it's it's the what is it the Michael
Scott win win win where you know, again it seems
cliche like you and I talked about kind of strategies.
Speaker 1 (35:26):
I mean, you won't like it when I say this is,
but like you.
Speaker 2 (35:31):
Want a cooperative result, right, Like a cooperative result and
where the team walks.
Speaker 1 (35:37):
Away, maybe a little unhappy because they did something they
didn't want to do.
Speaker 2 (35:40):
You walk away, maybe a little bit unhappy because you
left something on the table you didn't want to leave.
But like, at the end of the day, this won't
be the last negotiation you have with the team.
Speaker 1 (35:49):
That's the other part.
Speaker 3 (35:50):
And I think what I when you say that, that
is what you want as a lead negotiator for all
these deals we talked about. You're a collaborative person.
Speaker 1 (35:57):
That's Miami.
Speaker 3 (35:58):
As we'll see from other podcasts, it will not be
it might not be the same for all.
Speaker 1 (36:03):
It may not be that.
Speaker 3 (36:04):
And it all works. It all works well, only talking
about record break of deals here, so obviously it worked,
and we just get their different paths.
Speaker 1 (36:09):
You know that's exactly correct.
Speaker 3 (36:10):
All right, Well, listen, let's let's wrap up with the
lessons learned here. You know, what do we learn from this?
And I think you know my lesson learned here? And
again we think of this as we go. This to
is spontor here, but you know, listen to you talk
about Justin whatnot. It's just my lesson learned. Is just
a reminder how blessed we are to work with people
like Justin Herbert. I mean, just a family guy. And
(36:31):
I don't again, I don't know Justin like you do, right,
but just from a great family, a true leader, zero
ego from what I can see. You know, I'm not
in the locker room with them, but someone who like
you know, comes to your house, plays corn hole, spend
times with your kids, with your with your wife, goes
and walks through your neighborhood with you, trusts you and
the rest of the team to get him what he wants,
(36:52):
but also like rolls up and sleeves and understands every
single proposal going back and forth. I mean, we're lucky
to have uh Justin Herbert, the Chargers, Southern California is
lucky to have them. And that's my lesson learned today.
Just a reminder, you know, that's why we do put
the athletes first, because they're just such great.
Speaker 1 (37:09):
People, you know.
Speaker 3 (37:10):
And the twenty two year old coming down not knowing anybody,
you know, that's that's real, that's who he was. So
I'm thankful to Aim and you and that's a great
that was a great experience, great outcome.
Speaker 4 (37:20):
Yeah, I think my takeaway is, you know, this is
the athlete's first family podcast, and in hearing the story
about Justin basically coming down and spending all that time
with you and your family and becoming a part of
your family, it's exactly what we talk about when we say,
you know, our clients, our clients families, they all become
a part of our family. And I think that's a
prime example of that. I would even say that we
(37:41):
maybe make the silhouettes of Justin and Justin walking down
the sidewalk. It is like the logo of our podcast
going forward.
Speaker 3 (37:49):
I still can't believe that, like I'm like out there.
If I was more of my law or something, I'd
be like, Okay, I know that's the flag football coach
Justin Schulmann, but what is that Justin Herbert?
Speaker 2 (37:57):
The best is literally some people would know that we
were out and go wait for us to get to
them for an autograph or something like that.
Speaker 1 (38:03):
From both of you, not from both of us. Listen.
Speaker 2 (38:05):
What I learned from this experience with him is this
goes back to our previous episode is you know, you
gotta love what you do. And I loved educating him,
like and walking him through the process and also.
Speaker 1 (38:17):
Hearing from him what was important.
Speaker 2 (38:19):
I think so many times it could just be hey,
the client wants this doesn't matter, I'm gonna go do
what I think is best for the client. But educating
him and hearing what was important to him, and you know, again,
what was important to him was find a way to
be the charges quarterback long term and you know, do
it quietly and positively, and we accomplished it.
Speaker 3 (38:38):
So yeah, great deal, Congratulations to the deal, Congratulations on
the client and a wonderful career. We appreciate you hanging
out with us for a couple episodes.
Speaker 1 (38:48):
What's next, What you got next?
Speaker 3 (38:49):
Next, we got our equity partner, Ryan Williams. We're gonna
talk about Ryan Williams and all his great journey from
intern to student manager at UCLA to equity partner in
athletes first and his tour deal, which again you know,
both came out the same draft and uh, but very
different paths to where they got. But both both, you guys,
got the record breaking deals, so we'll go forward to it.
Speaker 1 (39:10):
Awesome, Thanks guys, Thanks
Hosts And Creators
Brian Murphy
AJ Stevens
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