January 30, 2025 • 42 mins
What does it take to become the leading football agency in the NFL? In this episode of the Athletes First Family Podcast, we dive into the story of Athletes First—from its humble beginnings to becoming a powerhouse representing the league’s top players.
Join CEO Brian Murphy, VP AJ Stevens, and equity partner Justin Schulman as they reveal the secrets behind groundbreaking deals, innovative negotiation strategies, and the teamwork that drives their success. From Justin Schulman’s inspiring journey from the NBA to Athletes First to the creative contract adjustment for Nick Foles after his Super Bowl win, we explore the unique skill sets and bold strategies that have set Athletes First apart. With adaptability, collaboration, and a relentless commitment to players’ success, learn how the agency continues to redefine what’s possible in the sports world.
#nfl #quarterback #podcast
Learn More About Athletes First: https://athletesfirst.net
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Subscribe To Our YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@AthletesFirstNetwork
Timestamps:
00:00:00 - Welcome to the Athletes First Family Podcast
00:00:16 - Purpose of the Podcast and Agency Overview
00:00:44 - Introduction of Justin Schulman
00:03:09 - Justin’s Journey: From NBA to Business School
00:05:25 - How Justin Joined Athletes First
00:09:12 - Early Challenges and Growth at Athletes First
00:12:32 - Developing Athlete Training Programs
00:15:50 - Evolution of the Company Culture and Structure
00:18:13 - The “Better Together” Philosophy
00:19:29 - Unique Relationship Between Co-Founders
00:21:08 - Transition to Agent Role and First Big Client
00:25:54 - Success with Mid-Round Draft Picks and Quarterback Clients
00:28:05 - Nick Foles’ Journey and Career Challenges
00:32:19 - Nick’s Super Bowl MVP and Innovative Contract Adjustments
00:36:14 - Nick’s Return to Lincoln Financial and Legacy
00:37:37 - Reflecting on Lessons from Victories in Sports
00:39:24 - Building a Successful Company with Hardworking Partners
00:41:08 - Purpose of the Podcast and Preview of Next Episode
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
And I've been doing this for twenty three years. I
(00:02):
still pick up my players at the airport when they
arrive for training. I still pack up the training camp
gifts when they come into the office and help the
interns with that sort of stuff. I think, you know,
once you lose that, you lose the culture of this place.
And I think one of the great things has been
how everybody's willing to pitch in and do their part
(00:22):
and actually do more than their part.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
Welcome back to the next episode of the Athlete's First
Family podcast focusing on our quarterback series. I am Brian Murphy,
CEO of athletes First, and this is my trusted co host,
AJ Stevens, who's a VP of Client Strategy, perhaps the
best contract negotiator in our business.
Speaker 3 (00:44):
Thanks Mar.
Speaker 4 (00:45):
The purpose of this podcast to give an insider's view
into the largest and most successful football agency in the industry.
This series is specifically focused on at a one's quarterback expertise.
Why we think we're here to talk about that is
because Athletes First currently has one point four billion dollars
of active NFL contracts four quarterbacks on the books. This
(01:06):
is the most for any agency in the industry and
the history of a one's quarterback representation includes a dozen
record breaking contracts.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
This episode, we welcome my close friend Athletes first equity partner,
Justin Schulman to our show. Welcome Astor Doing Well, Doing Well,
see you. It's going to be a great show. We're
going to talk about Justin's journey from a very heartfelt
letter he wrote two Athletes First, I believe in two
thousand and two, and then we're going to follow his career,
(01:35):
during which time he not only became a superagent who's
done a number of record breaking deals, including a huge
quarterback deal for Justin Herbert, but he also has been
our de facto CFO COO, head of charity and have
worn many, many different hats during our two decades together.
So a great story. I can say that Justin is
(01:56):
the only superagent in the industry who also functions as
a CFO only also boxes the CEO in the history
of our industry. So it's a great story. And I
appreciate your time today, Justin, and it was a busy season.
Let's just jump right into your background. Let's talk about
the kind of poor school you went to and go
from there.
Speaker 1 (02:15):
Sure, so I went to the University of Michigan obviously
go blue. Big thing for there with me was they
had a sport management program, and I always knew from
kind of the age of sixteen or so, I wanted
to work in sports. So that's why I went to Michigan.
I was fortunate I landed. After my time in Michigan,
I landed at the NBA League Office. Spent about a year,
(02:38):
and their management training program got rotated around shoot, this
is now almost thirty years ago, National Basketball in the
National Basketball Association, their league office. My third of four
rotations was with the WNBA, actually before it launched. The
last day of my rotation was the day before the
league had its first game, and then I got pulled
(02:58):
from the rotational program. In place permanently in the WNBA.
Was the eighth or ninth employee there. Spent three seasons there.
Didn't know much about women's basketball, but got to be
there on the ground working with vl Ackerman, who was
then the commissioner league, now the head of the.
Speaker 3 (03:16):
Big East. I believe and.
Speaker 1 (03:19):
Did that for three seasons, great experience. Decided I wanted
to go get a graduate degree. I went got a
MBA degree over at UCLA, which was home for me,
had a sports and entertainment bent to it, which was
which was exciting.
Speaker 3 (03:35):
And then it was time to find a job.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
And before you get into that, let's just look at
somebody said, so you in high school and knew you
want to be in the sports industry.
Speaker 3 (03:43):
Yeah. I was an athlete in high school.
Speaker 1 (03:45):
I was a good baseball player, but I always realized
I was going to be five foot eight and slow
doesn't really add up to much. So for me, it
was you know, my dad actually three important life lessons.
I should give him the credit. He said, uh, work
wherever your passion is. Make sure when you wake up
in the morning you love what you do. That was
number one too. It was find a way to work
(04:06):
for yourself and kind of be your own boss. So
that way, if you want to go coach your kids
in little league or flag football or whatnot, you can
go do that. And then his other, ironically was return
every email caller text. So but for that, that's why
I ended up at Michigan. Was go pursue sports.
Speaker 2 (04:25):
No, it's great, and it was I mean, did you
want to be an agent who just want to be
a sport You.
Speaker 1 (04:28):
Know, it's funny, I had zero interest in being an agent.
When I worked at the NBA, I saw and I
dealt with the players a lot. And when I left
to go to business school, everyone's like, go, go be
an agent, and I was like, I don't want to
be a babysitter. And that's how I saw the business.
You know, NBA players are definitely different than NFL players,
fewer of them, and with AU basketball, a lot of
(04:49):
things are different. But I did not want to.
Speaker 3 (04:51):
Be an agent.
Speaker 1 (04:52):
In fact, when I sent my email here to you
and Dave and Jobie Branyan, it wasn't to pitch myself
as an agent at all.
Speaker 3 (05:01):
You know. It's kind of a byproduct of everything.
Speaker 2 (05:03):
Let's talk about that. So you had a great experience
in the NBA. Very hard to get into that program,
but you must have done well at Michigan and then
helped launch the WNBA, which is obviously much different today
than it was two thousand and one.
Speaker 1 (05:17):
Absolutely back then, and I mean complete startup right, and
it was David Serton's vision and he wasn't going to
let it fail. And it was a great experience for
a twenty three year old to get it on the
ground floor. And to get to do so much there.
But yeah, that was it was a phenomenal experience.
Speaker 2 (05:32):
Yeah, great experience there. I met a lot of people,
came back to LA where you grew up. What was
your nickname playing sports? Scoop scoop phenomenal shortstop? Is it?
Speaker 3 (05:40):
That's right?
Speaker 2 (05:41):
Okay, And then we won't talk about any more about
your appreciate you. And then so then you go to
Anderson School business amazing place, get a degree, and he's
time to find a job. So you talk about the
how did you get to athletes?
Speaker 3 (05:53):
First?
Speaker 1 (05:54):
So the biggest, the biggest struggle actually was right after graduation.
So I only wanted to work in sports, and I
only wanted in California. I had a bunch of opportunities
to go with the what's now the G League was
the NBDL, which was just launching through the NBA, but
I only wanted to be here in southern California. And unfortunately,
you know, terribly right after graduation, nine to eleven happened,
(06:15):
so the entire market shutdown. So I was biding my
time doing some consulting work on the side, and I
read an article on ESPN, the magazine about athletes First,
which had just launched in two thousand and one, so
it was you know, I think the article came out
maybe at the end of two thousand and beginning of
two thousand and two, and I just sent an email
to you, Dave and Joby, the founding partners, and I
(06:36):
remember specifically the title of the email was I want
to help, or the first line of the email was
I want to help. And I had startup experience with
the WNBA. I was comfortable with numbers and had done
a bunch of other things, and I remember pitching you
on kind of like almost a business development role, looking
to go beyond representation and find ways to help the
business grow well.
Speaker 2 (06:56):
And I want to paint this picture because I think
we're Athletes FIRSTUS now was quite different than it was
two thousand and one. Sure, And in term of my background,
I was a psychology major.
Speaker 3 (07:04):
Yep.
Speaker 2 (07:05):
I went to law school, went to Harvard Law School,
and as became a litigator. I didn't know what ebit
it meant. I didn't know how to run a company.
I didn't know anything about it.
Speaker 3 (07:14):
You know.
Speaker 2 (07:14):
I moved out to California to be a sports agent
and started Athletes First in two thousand and one. So
when we got your letter like business development, I don't
even know what business development is, right, and you know
you said you want to help, like, well, this guy
worked at the NBA, you know, went to Michigan, has
an MBA, Like you can pay our bills. I mean,
he can do something. So you came in and we
weren't really it's only we only had like three or
(07:35):
four employees. But what was what was the project that
you would give it for?
Speaker 3 (07:38):
Well, it's it's actually funny. I'll take a step back there. Aj.
Speaker 1 (07:41):
You probably don't even know this, but you or you
had somebody say come come down. And I was living
in La at the time, so I came down to
meet with you guys. And I'm sitting in the room
waiting to meet Murph, and I'm looking around and everybody's
wearing sweatpants or whatnot. This guy's walking around with a
hat backwards. I'm like, that's awesome. They let their interns
(08:01):
where like it was Murph wearing his hat backwards and sweatpants.
Speaker 3 (08:05):
But you know it.
Speaker 1 (08:08):
And then they kept me there for seven hours with
no food, no water, no nothing.
Speaker 4 (08:11):
And you were in a full suit.
Speaker 3 (08:13):
I think I was dressed nicely. I don't know if
it was a full suit, but yes.
Speaker 2 (08:16):
You have not dressed that nicely in the last two decades.
Speaker 3 (08:19):
I appreciate you. Yeah, that's right. And you know, it's funny.
Speaker 1 (08:24):
I interviewed with them and then kind of didn't hear
anything for a while and was interviewing elsewhere, and then
out of the blue, Murph calls and he's like, hey,
are you good with numbers? And I'm like, do you
remember my my resume anything? And he's like, hey, I've
got a project for you. And the project Murph gave
me was the company was about to buy a thirty
(08:46):
thousand dollars I think it was phone system, and he
was like, can you see and do some research and
find out if this is the right purchase for us.
And I spent about a week with them, and first
off told them, no, it wasn't a better solution for
five thousand dollars. But that was kind of the first
project you gave me.
Speaker 3 (09:05):
And then it was here you go.
Speaker 1 (09:07):
You're in charge of payroll, benefits and everything else at
the in our bank accounts.
Speaker 3 (09:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:13):
I mean the big thing was that justin knew how
to use Excel and Eve and I had no idea,
so the.
Speaker 3 (09:17):
Little thing, do you know how to use Excel?
Speaker 2 (09:19):
At this point, I can use Excel. Still not great
paying bills, but yeah we're good. Yeah, no, so yeah,
I mean it was a totally different time there. I
mean's twenty four years ago. We were so happy to
get the help. We didn't know if we could afford
the help either, because at the time we're still looking
for funding for the company. So we didn't have funding
at the time, and you and I went on a
bunch of meetings looking for funding. You remember that, Yep.
(09:42):
I was quite quite the adventure.
Speaker 3 (09:43):
Different different times for sure.
Speaker 2 (09:45):
Yeah, but eventually, you know, we so we hired justin
full time. What number employee were you, I was.
Speaker 3 (09:51):
Probably like eight or nine.
Speaker 1 (09:53):
But I think I was the first one that had
zero connection right to the company, you know, murfht Higher,
his good college friend as our general counsel. I think
you had brought in Drew Bledsoe's sister.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
In law, yep, yep, yep.
Speaker 1 (10:10):
But other than that, everybody else, like the other five
people had come from the other spot. So I was
the first one, and within a week they're like, here's
our bank account, information and here's our payroll and go
ahead and run with it.
Speaker 2 (10:21):
I don't know where our money have been for two decades.
Speaker 3 (10:23):
Neither do I. Yeah, we're good.
Speaker 2 (10:25):
Great, that's great. So let's talk about that a little bit,
because you know we're going to talk about in the
next podcast. Is you know, justin Herbert deal and obviously
eventually became certified. We'll get into all that. But very unique.
I don't think there's anyone else in our industry who
can say that they were both a superagent and like that.
Let's start with the CFO. I mean like paying the bills,
(10:46):
setting out billing, like telling us how much money we had,
Like did you expect that? Did he want that?
Speaker 1 (10:51):
And it's a good question. It's funny because you and
I talk about like I'm not. I wasn't qualified to
be a CFO. I just happened to be good with
numbers and had a basic understand of finance. But when
I joined, I had zero again interest in being an agent.
And then I remember you guys shoot April of twenty
twenty three, so I'd been there for about six seven
(11:12):
months and it was Carson palmer'sou sorry two thousand and
three it's Carson Palmer's contract. And I remember you guys
pulled me into that and we're walking through net present
value and stuff in the little war room and and
I remember, so I was involved in that deal and
involved in a couple of other free agent deals, and
I think it was like two thousand and four. So
(11:33):
you're like, hey, we need you to go get certified.
And I was like, this is not what I wanted,
you know, this is this isn't what I signed up for.
But I ended up doing it and started recruiting there,
and yeah, it's been great.
Speaker 2 (11:45):
I love those stats to the CFO part again, the
seats of the CFO par for sure, Like so you
did that for a long time.
Speaker 1 (11:51):
I've did that for a really long time, through a
bankruptcy and through everything. Yeah, I did that and watched
us grow and tried to put it, as I called it,
a tent on our circus, and it was, you know,
you can attest not easy, especially as we're growing.
Speaker 2 (12:07):
We also did number of transactions, right, and we went
down the road along way with Wasserman at one point
that's right, maybe think about selling to them. We sold
a third of a company, Dentsu in Japan, and then
you know, the last couple of years we did our
most recent deal, we sped for two months of coming
but that was all me, you and the General Council
just figuring it out one hundred percent.
Speaker 1 (12:25):
It was trial by fire. And I remember, you know,
in the Washerman transaction, it was completely new to us, right.
I think we had a lawyer guide us for a
little bit, but for us it was pretty much on
our own, and then similar through DNSU and then definitely
with the most recent transaction. But I think a lot
of it was just hey, we'll figure it out, right,
and you know, and I think we've gotten to a
(12:47):
point where it's like, Okay, we can't stop figuring it out. Yep,
let's get someone who can who's actually done this.
Speaker 2 (12:52):
And now a lot about that. But then you also
see you all in a way I mean running. I mean,
so talk about like the training program, I mean how
you kind of took that and ran with it.
Speaker 1 (13:00):
And yeah, because when I started, you guys had I
think trained in Florida for a year something like that.
Speaker 2 (13:05):
Disney World, dis World right an Kingdom or something, Disney
World Animal Kingdom and why will the sports awesome?
Speaker 3 (13:14):
And it was amazing.
Speaker 1 (13:16):
You guys did that and paid for a Super Bowl
party for two hundred and fifty two thousand dollars or
something like that.
Speaker 3 (13:22):
Shocking for you. You pre me.
Speaker 1 (13:26):
So, you know, we talked about training, and there was
there was definitely options to do it at a place
where they do it for you, but I think you know,
you and I looked at it and said, it's two
cookie cutter, let's do our own situation. And yeah, you
didn't want to go back to the buffet. So we
found Soca University I think was our first place, and
a trainer named Chuck Williams, and it kind of grew
(13:49):
from there and we did it there, and then we
went over to Velocity and formed a partnership with them,
and I just remember doing research on all these different
places and trying to figure out, hey, listen, it's more
cost effect, but it won't be done the athletes first way, yep.
And then the question just becomes how can we do
it ourselves and make it better and better and better?
And we did, and I think, you know, we've built
(14:10):
something that's completely unique with our academy in that you know,
I think we were the only first agency to do
it and have their own spot. I think there's maybe
one or two that I've tried to follow suit, but
you know the results have been fantastic and we're excited
about what's to come with that.
Speaker 2 (14:25):
Yeah. No, I remember you try all the country looking
for the best place and come back saying, you know,
we need to build the best place. We did create
the best place and have to be the Athletes First
Academy and go from there. Another project you worked on
as CEO, which I think is was disruptive, no very unique.
No one still done it. But you and I started
the Athletes First Classic together. Can you tell us a
little bit about that?
Speaker 1 (14:44):
Yeah, And in fact, it's funny. I still have the
presentation I made to you when I was kind of
trying to create a job, and one of them was
let's do a charity golf tournament. And yeah, so that
was two thousand and four for Junior Achievement benefiting junior achievement.
I remember you and I. You know, we sent out
the invitations probably eight weeks before the event, but we
(15:05):
sent out invitations and we're trying to sell it, and
I think you and I looked at each other and
we're like, oh, shit, like here we go. And I
remember we partnered up with Noah McMahon and his company
and at the time was McMahon Marketing and the three
of us and Jessica Hudson from our office. You know,
all of a sudden, we're planning a wedding for six
hundred people in addition to everything else we're doing. But
(15:29):
for us, it was, hey, we always tell our players
to give back and to do good. Well, why aren't
we doing the same thing. So we started that and
at a you know, I think the first year was
pretty good, and then it grew from there and supported
Orangewood for fifteen years or so and has continued to
grow and prosper and has raised probably ten million plus
(15:50):
for the charities that we worked with. So yeah, pretty
cool experience. And I think again something that makes athletes
first unique. I think others do smaller charity events, but
no one's done it with our scale.
Speaker 2 (16:01):
No now, I speaking a whole weekend and you know,
now we're working with xals and probably done about twenty
years and I'd say, you know, far far north to
ten million. But also like it just it's a great
way to get all of our clients together, and our
network together, and brands together, and our company together, employees
together as well.
Speaker 1 (16:18):
I will say I do not miss the week of
you and I doing seating charts for six hundred people. Yeah,
that was that was definitely something that it was good
to pass on.
Speaker 2 (16:28):
And I think that's an interesting point to make, right
because when you came on, you said you were the
eighth employee. Now we have eighty five employees. We were
a mom and pop and we pride ourselves on being
a mom and pop. But talk a little bit about
what that means to be a mom and pop like
you and I doing seating charts, you know, stuff like that.
Speaker 1 (16:44):
Absolutely, I think you know it was. It was the
jack of all trades. It literally was do whatever you can,
roll up your sleeves and and candidly that's one of
how I was raised in two I don't think I've changed.
I mean, I've been doing this for twenty three years.
I still pick up my players at the airport when
they arrived for training. I still pack up the training
camp gifts when they come into the office and and
(17:05):
help the interns with that sort of stuff. I think
you know, once you lose that, you lose the culture
of this place. And I think one of the great
things has been how everybody's willing to pitch in and
and do their part and actually do more than their part.
Speaker 2 (17:19):
And do you think they coming from like coming from
an outsider, like starting at the beginning on, like, because
we've done a lot of things. You've initiated a lot
of things that no other agency's done and they don't
do now, Like, is that because you had an outsider's perspective?
Is because you weren't need to grow up in I
mean you just grew up in athletes first, but yeah,
an in turn anywhere else?
Speaker 1 (17:35):
Right, Yeah, I think it's also you know, listen, I've
learned from you, like you continuously want to evolve, right,
and you continuously want to get better, and you push
me in that sense. Right, sometimes I'm the hey, let's
take a breath and figure out what we're doing, and
you continuously want to push you know. I think the
growing up in this place, you just you build a
(17:55):
pride that's unlike any other. And what's interesting is, yeah,
we have eighty six and plays, but the vast majority
I would say this.
Speaker 2 (18:03):
Is their first job, yep.
Speaker 1 (18:05):
And that's a blessing and a curse. Right, it's a blessing.
I remember when I got here and started with like, hey,
we're going to fill out expense report this way, because
this is how I saw it at the MBA, and
everyone was like no, no, no, no, no, no, no, Like
what are you doing. Don't we don't do stuff like that.
I'm like, no, we're going to do stuff like that.
And I think that, you know, that's one of the
struggles of going from a small startup to now a
(18:28):
mid sized company, is you know, I said a reference before,
trying to put the tender on the circus and add
some structure and do those things. But as long as
you do them and then you know everybody understands that
you're doing it for a reason, I think it kind
of benefits everybody.
Speaker 2 (18:41):
We talked a little bit about better together in that philosophy.
I mean, I think like when we were growing up
and building this business together, we had to do everything,
and you had to do together because we had five, six, ten,
twelve people competing against agencies that had one hundred people,
and we weren't working together, we wasn't gonna get done.
Speaker 1 (18:56):
Not to mention, I mean, remember go back to that time.
We were facing it judgment of forty four million dollars.
We were in bankruptcy while we appealed a judgment that
was unfairly you know, put upon us. So like, yeah,
it was fight and scrap and I think that it's
something that you know, defined who we were then. You know,
if you look back at the competition in the agency
(19:19):
business back then, most of those people are gone, either
they've been eaten up into other mergers or they've switched.
I mean, that's one of the things I talked to
people about our firm. If you look at our senior management,
you look at our senior agents, nobody's left, like people like,
it's very rare in our business to have employees who
have been here for twenty plus years in the same place.
(19:41):
So you look at yourself, you look at me, You
look at Ryan Williams, you look David will gettus starting
as an intern here. You know, Carmen Wallace has been
here the entire time. Like people haven't left. Cal McCarthy
was a player client of ours. Nobody's left. And I
think that's a real tribute to what we built.
Speaker 2 (19:58):
Yeah, it was great, it's great. So let's let's talk
a little bit about our relationship. You know, I think
is unique, right, like, how how would you We've been
working together for twenty three years whatnot? And we do
everything together, Like, how would you describe our relationship?
Speaker 1 (20:12):
It's the reason I'm bald, large and no, it's listen.
I think you and I have have been a perfect
foil to one another in that you're the big visionary,
You're the always positive, and I'm probably the more detail
for it, foot detail focused and more realistic of the two.
(20:33):
You can say pessimistic, Okay, you know everybody calls me pessimistic,
but it's like I actually look the word realistic. But no,
I mean we've worked well together. I think you you
have your you know, your visions of how you want
things to go, and then but you are open to
kind of seeing the other side of things. And then
I've obviously had to adjust how I work to kind
(20:56):
of make what you want come to fruition.
Speaker 3 (20:59):
If that makes sense. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (21:00):
No, and I think we look at the world very differently.
But I would say, without question, we're not doing this
podcast Athletes First doesn't have all these great accolades. If
you hadn't come on board if you hadn't written that letter,
if you hadn't taken on the role of COO, if
you hadn't taken the role of CFO, and if you
hadn't been one of the few people along with Hume's,
who stand up to me to say no, no, that's
too far, we can't do that. You know.
Speaker 3 (21:21):
That's why I was here.
Speaker 2 (21:22):
Yeah, yeah, so I think that's great. But also you've
been a huge help in terms of being an agent,
you know, and diving to that part of your career.
Kind of talk about a little bit like so what
you were helping us on the Carson Palmer A deal.
Speaker 1 (21:37):
Yeah, helping on that, helping on I think a couple
of the free agent deals around that time. I think
it was like Todd Heap ray Lewis that that sort
of stuff, and you and had come to me, I
think in a couple of others and said, hey, go
get licensed.
Speaker 3 (21:48):
And I went through that.
Speaker 1 (21:50):
Process and had my first draft class in two thousand
and five, so twenty years ago. And I've loved that
part of my job. You know, I've worked with probably
anywhere from at a time when I started, you know,
it was ten guys on rosters. Now it's you know,
twenty three, twenty four guys, and it's it's it's great, Like,
I do love that part of my job, but I
think it's changed. The business has changed dramatically, and we
(22:12):
can always get into that. But working with the guys
and helping the guys and guiding them through their careers
has been something I truly.
Speaker 2 (22:20):
Love And no pun intended by this. But who was
your first big client?
Speaker 1 (22:25):
First client? Brandon Jacobs. So you're right about big six
foot four, two hundred and fifty two pounds or something
like two hundred and sixty pounds running back.
Speaker 3 (22:35):
One of the largest men I'd ever seen.
Speaker 1 (22:36):
And what's crazy about it is the first time I
laid eyes on him was when he came to train.
You think about how the business is now with recruiting
and whatnot. I remember waiting for him a John Wayne
Airport and I see this guy coming down the escalator
and I'm like, oh my god, that's a running back.
Speaker 4 (22:51):
So in the recruitment process, you'd never met him.
Speaker 1 (22:54):
No, it was all via text message, phone calls. I
did go meet his father in law, helped them with
the I did go there to Holtonhead, South Carolina and
met with him. But other than that, it was it
was all phone calls and text messages.
Speaker 4 (23:07):
Which is so much different than today when you're seeing
people ten, fifteen, twenty times before they ever.
Speaker 2 (23:14):
Signed in Zoom. He had zoom back then. We I
mean you have zoom back then, right?
Speaker 1 (23:17):
Who was so Brandon was a running back. It was
a big time high school running back in Napoleonville, Louisiana
who went to Auburn and was the third of third
member of a unbelievable running back room which had Cadillac
Williams and Ronnie Brown, which I think you two top
five running backs right in the two thousand and five draft,
(23:40):
and Brandon ended up leaving, transferring to Southern Illinois so
that he was able to get on the field and
had an good year in Southern Illinois, was invited to
the Shrine Game. I remember the Senior Bowl didn't wan
him because they didn't think he was a running back,
and Brandon ended up drafting the fourth round by the
New York Giants. The number of teams tried to make
him a tight end and we're considering that in the
(24:02):
draft process. Giants drafted him and he won two Super Bowls.
I think he either had or still has the most
touchdowns in franchise history or something like rushing touchdowns. I
don't I don't remember, but it was he had a
great career with the Giants, beloved in New York, and
I think the stat at the time was there were
taller running backs and there were heavier running backs, but
(24:24):
the combination he was the largest in terms of the both.
Speaker 2 (24:28):
He has a son right now. It's a pretty good player.
Speaker 1 (24:30):
Yeah, his son and again making me feel old, his
son is graduating. He's a six foot seven, three hundred
and thirty pound offensive lineman at eighteen years old going
to Clemson. I think he had thirty forty offers. So yeah,
as I told Brandon, I think my career will start
with Brandon and with Brandon. But now it's pretty cool
(24:52):
to see that.
Speaker 2 (24:52):
And then you were going to talk a little bit
about Justin Herbert in the next episode. But you also
represent a number of other quarterbacks who you became very
close to.
Speaker 1 (24:59):
Sure, very very fortunate to work with guys like Chad Henny,
who came from my alma mater, so obviously that was
that was really really special. Worked with Chad Henny, worked
with John Beck another second rounder who's a phenomenal quarterback
trainer now was close with Kellen Clemens when he was
in the league. And then Nick Foles obviously was another
(25:21):
quarterback that I worked with.
Speaker 2 (25:22):
Yep ye, and how and how has that been that experiential?
All of them different?
Speaker 3 (25:25):
Right, it's completely different.
Speaker 1 (25:27):
And uh, you know, I was saying to somebody else
the other day, when you watch your client who's a
quarterback play, you get a little bit nervous. No matter
how long you've been doing it, you just get nervous.
Even with a guy like Justin, you know, as talented
as he is, when you watch him drop back and pass,
you're like, just hope it all goes well.
Speaker 2 (25:49):
You watch the games differently for sure, completely different way.
I mean I remember when when Tom Brady went down
and met Castle came in, Like I think I was
at a restaurant watching the game. I ran, I raised home,
I gotta watch this by myself, right a like I
don't know what's going to happen. Went pretty well. But
and then you know, you have a very unique ability.
Some people call it luck. Some people go up skill,
(26:09):
but of signings mid round players who go on to
be the best at their position. You kind of tell
us about a couple of them.
Speaker 1 (26:17):
Yeah, I mean again, I luck definitely plays into it.
But you look at some players and the draft. You know,
I always tell recruits the draft is wrong more than
it's right, you know, I think when you look at
it just in terms of there's plenty of guys who
are drafting the third fourth round that make a ton
of money and guys in the first round who don't
get out of their first contract. So yeah, I've been
(26:38):
fortunate to have some of those mid round picks. Brandon
was a fourth round pick, played for a long time
as a running back. Mark Andrews was a third round pick,
arguably one of the top tight ends. Fred Warner was
a third round pick. Best linebacker in the league right now?
And yeah, there have been a handful fortunate Nick Foles
(26:58):
was a third round pick. There's a live I was
just about to say. Pookin Nikua. See Pookin Nakua is
another perfect example where again it's it's a yeah, you
think they're good players. Did I think Fred Warner would
become the best linebacker in the league. No, Like, you know,
and I love Fredd and he is the best of
what he does and he's on the path to a
gold jacket, but like he was kind of out of
(27:20):
position in college. And then you look at a guy
like Nick. Going back to quarterbacks, so much of it
for a quarterback is not just where you're drafted, but
the situation that you're in. And I know you've seen
this as well with guys, but you know, you look
at a guy like John Beck, fortieth pick overall, second round,
was drafted to a really bad team, and you know
(27:42):
their intent was not to play him, and I think
they were zero to eight and finally they're like, let's
just see what we have with them, and then he played.
They went one in fifteen, They fired the head coach,
they fired the jam who drafted him, and then ironically
draft Chad Henny. But it's like John gets labeled, you know,
because of that perform And you know, it's interesting because
we're talking quarterbacks. That position has just so much scrutiny
(28:06):
where you know, you'd rather be drafted later into a
good situation. Right, Like Nick his super Bowl runs, he
had great teams around him, and yeah, Nick played really
well in the Super Bowl run, in the playoff run,
but you know, look what happened to Nick in Saint Louisa,
right when he doesn't have as good of a situation.
Speaker 2 (28:23):
So, you know, a couple of young guys now that
we're excited about too, right.
Speaker 3 (28:27):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (28:27):
In terms of quarterback, yeah, yeah, a couple of years ago,
I was fortunate to work with Jake Hayner, was drafted
by the New Orleans Saints, and Tanner McKee, who was
drafted by the Philadelphia Eagles. You know, Tanner's an interesting
one because when he came out of high school, it
was him, Trevor Lawrence, and Justin Fields were the top three.
And then Tanner went on a Mormon mission for two years,
and Tanner chose the non traditional football school. He chose Stanford,
(28:51):
whereas Trevor went to Clemson and Justin went to Georgia
and then to Ohio State. And you know, candidly, Stanford
was not good. Yeah, and in effective Hanner's play to
the point where you know, from a draft perspective, he
was not highly sought after because the film was so bad.
But kudos to you know, Howie Rosemand. He's a six
round pick. He's made the roster for two years, and
(29:12):
I know they're excited about him.
Speaker 2 (29:14):
Great future, So we're going to jump in a little
that's your recruiting. But you know we're here to talk
about contracts. So do you want to summarize some of
Justin's highlights since he doesn't like to really talk about himself.
Speaker 4 (29:25):
Yeah, No, we definitely want to get into some deals
on the on this episode, and Justin's got a bunch
of them. We can talk about one specifically, and we've
talked about him a little bit already is Nick Foles.
And he had an extremely unique career path from where
he started, where he bounced around to there were talks
that at one point he was going to consider retirement
and then he ends up at the pinnacle of the
(29:46):
entire sport. So just any insight on that because I
wasn't here yet, so I'd love to hear your your
thoughts on it.
Speaker 3 (29:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (29:52):
Nick was an interesting one because obviously he got drafted
by Howie Roseman and Andy Reid and Doug Peterson was
the offensive cornert of the in Philadelphia, played a little
bit and then Andy was let go and they cleared
house and brought in Chip Kelly, and there were concerns
about how Nick would work in that system. And actually,
(30:14):
if you remember and you go back, he was phenomenal
in that system, made a Pro Bowl in that system.
But for whatever reason, Andy decided he was not gonna
be not Andy Chip decided he wasn't gonna be the future,
so traded him to Saint Louis. I think right around
free agency, if I believe, if I'm correct, and you know,
(30:35):
suffice to say, it just didn't work. It was a disaster.
I think it was Saint Louis's last year in Saint
Louis and just the whole situation was not good and
uh and Nick completely candidly lost the love of the game.
It was really hard on him emotionally, spiritually. He's a
very spiritual person. He just struggled with it and was
(30:59):
pretty much done with football. You said he was considering retirement.
I'm pretty sure he was retired. He was done, and
I remember talking to him a lot about is this
how you want.
Speaker 3 (31:09):
To end your career? And how do you want to
walk away? And he was just so spent.
Speaker 1 (31:14):
You know, I think his story has been told that
he was done and then he decided to reconsider and
come back, and Nick and I joke, He's found a
way to ruin multiple family vacations. That one was he
called while we were in the Bahamas at Atlantis and said,
I want to play, and I only want to play
for one team. And I spent the rest of the
vacation in the business center and on the floor of
(31:36):
my of our bathroom at nights working on a contract
with the Kansas City Chiefs. And then obviously for him
to come back. He found the love again in one year,
and then how.
Speaker 4 (31:45):
He Kansas City he chose because of.
Speaker 3 (31:47):
Andy, and it was the comfort, good, good point.
Speaker 1 (31:50):
If anybody was going to help him find the love again,
it was Andy, and he did so.
Speaker 3 (31:55):
He was there for a year.
Speaker 1 (31:56):
And then at that time Howie Roseman right after that,
how he became GM again basically in Philadelphia and called
and said I want Nick back, and we worked on
a contract. It was actually it was how and I
talked about this recently. It was them in Tampa Bay
and we finished the contract at the Athletes First Classic,
(32:17):
and how he was at a wedding and the two
of us left our respective events to go work out
the details. But he went back and then obviously he's
now the king of Philadelphia'll never have to pay for
a meal there or anything like that.
Speaker 2 (32:29):
Right, And so what's amis you grin as a Patriots fan?
Speaker 4 (32:32):
Yeah? Yeah, So he wins Super Bowl MVP. Ye, He's
got two years left on his contract at the time
as basically a backup level contract, right, but he's a
Super Bowl MVP. So you want to adjust it and
do something to reward him for what he had just done,
and you come up with this creative concept of a contract.
I find it extremely interesting. So if you want to
(32:54):
just touch on that.
Speaker 1 (32:55):
Yeah, I think I don't remember he had one or
two years left, but it was how do we get
him paid more or retroactively to what he did, not
for what he's going to do. And that was kind
of the big struggle because at that time, I don't
think anybody had really done that, like get something for
absolutely nothing, right.
Speaker 3 (33:11):
I think we've.
Speaker 1 (33:12):
Seen it now recently, sure, but back then, eight years
ago or whatever it was, you know, it was like, no, like,
there's a contract, he has incentives, he got paid for
the incentives, but it was like, okay, but he did
something so extreme. So what we ended up with an
agreement was I believe we definitely added some incentives to
the next year that would you know, reward him if
(33:34):
he did even more. But then we got him an
extra two million dollars of cash, and then we added
some language to it whereby the team could pick up
an option for an extra year. But then Nick had
the ability to buy back that year by returning the
two million dollars, which would then put the team in
(33:55):
the position of do you let him go and be
an unrestricted free agent or do you franchise tag him.
So the team ultimately had the final trump card or
the final decision. But we did this. If if Nick
hadn't played that year as well, because Carson Wentz had
gotten hurt, he would have gotten two million dollars and
everybody would have gone their separate ways. But because Nick
(34:16):
actually took them, I think it was to the division
championship again. You know, there were all these dominoes went
into effect. So at the end of the day, what
ended up happening was the team picked up the option,
they gave Nick two million dollars more. Nick bought back
his freedom, and then the team had to make a
decision did they let him hit the open market or
(34:37):
do they franchise tag him. I think the franchise tag
was maybe thirty million dollars or something like that. They
opted not to franchise tag him, and he went to
Jacksonville where we signed a I think he had fifty
million dollars guaranteed or something like that, forty four to.
Speaker 3 (34:50):
Fifty million dollars.
Speaker 1 (34:51):
So he ended up having to pay back the two million,
but he bought his freedom, which was ended up being
much more lucrative.
Speaker 4 (34:58):
Right, And so this is it's so unique in the
NFL because, like you said, I don't think there's another
one that has been done like this, at least not
under modern cbas. But it's something that happens a lot
of times in NBA and MLB where you see players
buying their right to free agency or opting out of
the contract. This is essentially an opt out. But he
had to write a check and send back to Jeffrey Laurie,
(35:18):
here's my two million dollars that you had given me.
You can have it back.
Speaker 1 (35:21):
Yeah, you know, it's really funny. A couple of things.
I think you're right, Like, I don't think there are
you see opt outs in baseball, right, especially in baseball
or player options basketball too, but even in baseball player
can opt out and cut certain I think Soto's deal
has an opt out that just got done. But yeah,
in football was very rare. And I remember helping Nick
write the letter to Jeffrey or I think it was
(35:43):
Jeffrey and Howie at the time, but it was something different.
And it was because again we were asking for free money.
And again I don't want to call it free. He
had won the Super Bowl for them, but we were
asking for something and this was their quid pro quo.
So yes, he ended up writing the check for two
million dollars, which, by the way, stung, don't get me wrong.
But then to be able to right to buy your freedom,
(36:07):
you know, and be able to go sign a free
agent because again, how many quarterbacks at free agency and
sign you know, good starter type deals.
Speaker 3 (36:16):
It was kind of the happy medium.
Speaker 2 (36:18):
And did the I'll give you two million dollars right now,
If you give you fifty million.
Speaker 3 (36:22):
Right that's a good investment.
Speaker 4 (36:23):
Did the final deal then come with the statue that
they ended up putting outside the stadium.
Speaker 1 (36:27):
Yeah, I mean, you know, it's actually kind of So
Nick retired officially earlier this year and went back to
Lincoln Financial for the first time for a game since
he left the team, And as we were leaving the stadium,
he's like, I want my kids to see the statue.
So we had an escort with us and literally had
(36:47):
to go halfway around the stadium just Nick could show
his kids the statue, which is still there. Yeah, pretty
pretty crazy because the coach isn't there, the player isn't there.
But you don't realize how much a franchise cares until
they win something that they have never really won before.
Speaker 4 (37:06):
They still have the Super Bowl Trophy. And I bet
a lot of fans when they saw him walking through
were yelling at Philly, Philly at.
Speaker 3 (37:11):
Him going crazy.
Speaker 1 (37:12):
I mean the stuff that we've seen and we've heard,
and tattoos of him and things like that. I mean,
you literally are talking about a guy who was traded away,
you know, and kudos to Howie Roseman. He was Howie's
guy and how he found a way to and you know,
even later in his career, Howie and I talked about
ways to get Nick back and it was close actually
a couple right before he retired, a couple of years
(37:34):
before he retired.
Speaker 3 (37:35):
Of going back to Philadelphia. But yeah, it's funny. I
don't get it as much.
Speaker 1 (37:41):
And this goes to something you've always said, Murph is like,
we don't enjoy our victories right enough, right like he
was super MVP. There's fifty five of those guys, and
actually Brady probably has like three of them, so there's
really fifty of those guys. I mean, what Nick did
was incredible and one of the most unique situations that
there was.
Speaker 2 (38:00):
Yep, I think, yeah, I think it's it's you know,
that contract as agent said, that contract has never been
replicated that run. I don't know if it's I mean,
I don't know if there's been another backup quarterback who
did that right but and then't do that in that
cities is encuarreter Upe. So well, you have a lot
of other contracts we're going to talk about in the
next episode, you know, Fred Warner. And as we wrap
up this episode, like we kind of like to wrap
(38:20):
up every episode with like lessons learned, you know, and
from this and and uh, you know, for me for
this podcast, the one lesson I learned, which I think
is appable that all industries, not just sports agency, is
that if you want to build a company, you know
from the ground up, which is what we did. You
want to build companies can become the best in the industry,
which what we did, you have to find people like Justin.
(38:42):
And by that I don't mean pessimistic, but I mean
people who are an incredibly intelligent and willing to roll
up their sleeves and do whatever it takes to get
the job done and put their ego aside. And that
is very unusual in our industries, particularly the ego part.
Speaker 3 (38:57):
Right.
Speaker 2 (38:58):
But over the twenty three years Justin and I work together,
I can't tell you how valuable his intelligence has.
Speaker 3 (39:04):
Been, you know.
Speaker 2 (39:05):
And again we don't have an industry like as run
on intelligence, right, and so like you know, having that
intelligence and being able to take that intelligence and say, hey,
let's go start our own athletes first cabin, let's go
start our own classic charity event, you know, and then
do the NIT present value and all the calculations and
so you know, he's obviously gets along very well. Great personality,
(39:27):
great family man, great values, but that intelligence and being
willing up to roll up your sleeve and do whatever
it takes to be the best. Anyone out there is
looking to start a company, go find yourself a Justin
because you're not gonna be able to do it without
Without that type of person.
Speaker 3 (39:40):
I appreciate it.
Speaker 4 (39:40):
I think my takeaway kind of piggybacks off that is
the you know, Justin's willingness and ability to just be
that jack of all trades where he is just looking
around the office, like what else needs to be done,
I'm going to just do it. I'm not going to
wait for the person who has that responsibility to get
it done, whether it's you know, going to the airport
and picking up clients or or anything else that you
(40:01):
do around the office, even to the point of you're
on a family vacation but you're in the business center
working because that's just you love what you do so much.
So I think that that speaks volumes of you.
Speaker 3 (40:13):
I appreciate.
Speaker 1 (40:14):
I think it goes back to kind of that advice
my dad gave me all those years ago, right, find
a place where you love what you do and it's
not work.
Speaker 3 (40:22):
I mean, yes, don't.
Speaker 1 (40:23):
Get me wrong, we're always on call and those sort
of things, but I'd rather be working on budgets for
our contract values than widgets, you know. And actually I'd.
Speaker 3 (40:33):
Prefer not doing any of those anymore.
Speaker 1 (40:34):
But now it's I appreciate you, murf for responding to
that email and putting me in that room for six
hours with no food, no water. But listen, we're fortunate
where we work, and I think it's hard because sometimes
I think, you know, I try to remind our employees
don't take this for granted, Like it's not the same.
Speaker 3 (40:52):
I remember real quick.
Speaker 1 (40:54):
I remember when I went and spoke at UCLA, and
as I finished, I texted, you probably won't remember this,
but I got home and I emailed the office just
to say, hey, guys, like, take a step back and
realize how lucky we are to do what we do,
and how many people want this job without knowing the
headaches that come of it, but like appreciate it and
love what you do and give back to this company.
Speaker 3 (41:16):
So it's been awesome. Look forward to them more.
Speaker 2 (41:19):
And I think that's one of the reasons we're doing
this podcast, which like is you know, be on all
of our comfort zone, but like we want to be
able to share the athlete's story with all people out
there who want to listen and share our lessons and
tell them listen, what we've done, you can do, you know,
I mean it's we're in a great place and I
think talking about it and going down this history is
it makes me appreciate even more so.
Speaker 1 (41:40):
Absolutely, and we're just fortunate like the guys we work with,
the Nick Foles of the world, the Fred Warrens of
the world, Mark Andres of the world. Justin there's great people,
great people. Were really fortunate to work with them and
makes it even better.
Speaker 2 (41:50):
Yeah, well, Justin, we thank you for coming on this episode.
Hope everyone joins us for the next episode where we
get into Justin Shulman's to goitiation of Justin Herbert's record
breaking deal for the Chargers. Another phenomenal story, very unique,
and we look forward to having you back.
Speaker 3 (42:09):
Sounds good, guys,
And I've been doing this for twenty three years. I
(00:02):
still pick up my players at the airport when they
arrive for training. I still pack up the training camp
gifts when they come into the office and help the
interns with that sort of stuff. I think, you know,
once you lose that, you lose the culture of this place.
And I think one of the great things has been
how everybody's willing to pitch in and do their part
(00:22):
and actually do more than their part.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
Welcome back to the next episode of the Athlete's First
Family podcast focusing on our quarterback series. I am Brian Murphy,
CEO of athletes First, and this is my trusted co host,
AJ Stevens, who's a VP of Client Strategy, perhaps the
best contract negotiator in our business.
Speaker 3 (00:44):
Thanks Mar.
Speaker 4 (00:45):
The purpose of this podcast to give an insider's view
into the largest and most successful football agency in the industry.
This series is specifically focused on at a one's quarterback expertise.
Why we think we're here to talk about that is
because Athletes First currently has one point four billion dollars
of active NFL contracts four quarterbacks on the books. This
(01:06):
is the most for any agency in the industry and
the history of a one's quarterback representation includes a dozen
record breaking contracts.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
This episode, we welcome my close friend Athletes first equity partner,
Justin Schulman to our show. Welcome Astor Doing Well, Doing Well,
see you. It's going to be a great show. We're
going to talk about Justin's journey from a very heartfelt
letter he wrote two Athletes First, I believe in two
thousand and two, and then we're going to follow his career,
(01:35):
during which time he not only became a superagent who's
done a number of record breaking deals, including a huge
quarterback deal for Justin Herbert, but he also has been
our de facto CFO COO, head of charity and have
worn many, many different hats during our two decades together.
So a great story. I can say that Justin is
(01:56):
the only superagent in the industry who also functions as
a CFO only also boxes the CEO in the history
of our industry. So it's a great story. And I
appreciate your time today, Justin, and it was a busy season.
Let's just jump right into your background. Let's talk about
the kind of poor school you went to and go
from there.
Speaker 1 (02:15):
Sure, so I went to the University of Michigan obviously
go blue. Big thing for there with me was they
had a sport management program, and I always knew from
kind of the age of sixteen or so, I wanted
to work in sports. So that's why I went to Michigan.
I was fortunate I landed. After my time in Michigan,
I landed at the NBA League Office. Spent about a year,
(02:38):
and their management training program got rotated around shoot, this
is now almost thirty years ago, National Basketball in the
National Basketball Association, their league office. My third of four
rotations was with the WNBA, actually before it launched. The
last day of my rotation was the day before the
league had its first game, and then I got pulled
(02:58):
from the rotational program. In place permanently in the WNBA.
Was the eighth or ninth employee there. Spent three seasons there.
Didn't know much about women's basketball, but got to be
there on the ground working with vl Ackerman, who was
then the commissioner league, now the head of the.
Speaker 3 (03:16):
Big East. I believe and.
Speaker 1 (03:19):
Did that for three seasons, great experience. Decided I wanted
to go get a graduate degree. I went got a
MBA degree over at UCLA, which was home for me,
had a sports and entertainment bent to it, which was
which was exciting.
Speaker 3 (03:35):
And then it was time to find a job.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
And before you get into that, let's just look at
somebody said, so you in high school and knew you
want to be in the sports industry.
Speaker 3 (03:43):
Yeah. I was an athlete in high school.
Speaker 1 (03:45):
I was a good baseball player, but I always realized
I was going to be five foot eight and slow
doesn't really add up to much. So for me, it
was you know, my dad actually three important life lessons.
I should give him the credit. He said, uh, work
wherever your passion is. Make sure when you wake up
in the morning you love what you do. That was
number one too. It was find a way to work
(04:06):
for yourself and kind of be your own boss. So
that way, if you want to go coach your kids
in little league or flag football or whatnot, you can
go do that. And then his other, ironically was return
every email caller text. So but for that, that's why
I ended up at Michigan. Was go pursue sports.
Speaker 2 (04:25):
No, it's great, and it was I mean, did you
want to be an agent who just want to be
a sport You.
Speaker 1 (04:28):
Know, it's funny, I had zero interest in being an agent.
When I worked at the NBA, I saw and I
dealt with the players a lot. And when I left
to go to business school, everyone's like, go, go be
an agent, and I was like, I don't want to
be a babysitter. And that's how I saw the business.
You know, NBA players are definitely different than NFL players,
fewer of them, and with AU basketball, a lot of
(04:49):
things are different. But I did not want to.
Speaker 3 (04:51):
Be an agent.
Speaker 1 (04:52):
In fact, when I sent my email here to you
and Dave and Jobie Branyan, it wasn't to pitch myself
as an agent at all.
Speaker 3 (05:01):
You know. It's kind of a byproduct of everything.
Speaker 2 (05:03):
Let's talk about that. So you had a great experience
in the NBA. Very hard to get into that program,
but you must have done well at Michigan and then
helped launch the WNBA, which is obviously much different today
than it was two thousand and one.
Speaker 1 (05:17):
Absolutely back then, and I mean complete startup right, and
it was David Serton's vision and he wasn't going to
let it fail. And it was a great experience for
a twenty three year old to get it on the
ground floor. And to get to do so much there.
But yeah, that was it was a phenomenal experience.
Speaker 2 (05:32):
Yeah, great experience there. I met a lot of people,
came back to LA where you grew up. What was
your nickname playing sports? Scoop scoop phenomenal shortstop? Is it?
Speaker 3 (05:40):
That's right?
Speaker 2 (05:41):
Okay, And then we won't talk about any more about
your appreciate you. And then so then you go to
Anderson School business amazing place, get a degree, and he's
time to find a job. So you talk about the
how did you get to athletes?
Speaker 3 (05:53):
First?
Speaker 1 (05:54):
So the biggest, the biggest struggle actually was right after graduation.
So I only wanted to work in sports, and I
only wanted in California. I had a bunch of opportunities
to go with the what's now the G League was
the NBDL, which was just launching through the NBA, but
I only wanted to be here in southern California. And unfortunately,
you know, terribly right after graduation, nine to eleven happened,
(06:15):
so the entire market shutdown. So I was biding my
time doing some consulting work on the side, and I
read an article on ESPN, the magazine about athletes First,
which had just launched in two thousand and one, so
it was you know, I think the article came out
maybe at the end of two thousand and beginning of
two thousand and two, and I just sent an email
to you, Dave and Joby, the founding partners, and I
(06:36):
remember specifically the title of the email was I want
to help, or the first line of the email was
I want to help. And I had startup experience with
the WNBA. I was comfortable with numbers and had done
a bunch of other things, and I remember pitching you
on kind of like almost a business development role, looking
to go beyond representation and find ways to help the
business grow well.
Speaker 2 (06:56):
And I want to paint this picture because I think
we're Athletes FIRSTUS now was quite different than it was
two thousand and one. Sure, And in term of my background,
I was a psychology major.
Speaker 3 (07:04):
Yep.
Speaker 2 (07:05):
I went to law school, went to Harvard Law School,
and as became a litigator. I didn't know what ebit
it meant. I didn't know how to run a company.
I didn't know anything about it.
Speaker 3 (07:14):
You know.
Speaker 2 (07:14):
I moved out to California to be a sports agent
and started Athletes First in two thousand and one. So
when we got your letter like business development, I don't
even know what business development is, right, and you know
you said you want to help, like, well, this guy
worked at the NBA, you know, went to Michigan, has
an MBA, Like you can pay our bills. I mean,
he can do something. So you came in and we
weren't really it's only we only had like three or
(07:35):
four employees. But what was what was the project that
you would give it for?
Speaker 3 (07:38):
Well, it's it's actually funny. I'll take a step back there. Aj.
Speaker 1 (07:41):
You probably don't even know this, but you or you
had somebody say come come down. And I was living
in La at the time, so I came down to
meet with you guys. And I'm sitting in the room
waiting to meet Murph, and I'm looking around and everybody's
wearing sweatpants or whatnot. This guy's walking around with a
hat backwards. I'm like, that's awesome. They let their interns
(08:01):
where like it was Murph wearing his hat backwards and sweatpants.
Speaker 3 (08:05):
But you know it.
Speaker 1 (08:08):
And then they kept me there for seven hours with
no food, no water, no nothing.
Speaker 4 (08:11):
And you were in a full suit.
Speaker 3 (08:13):
I think I was dressed nicely. I don't know if
it was a full suit, but yes.
Speaker 2 (08:16):
You have not dressed that nicely in the last two decades.
Speaker 3 (08:19):
I appreciate you. Yeah, that's right. And you know, it's funny.
Speaker 1 (08:24):
I interviewed with them and then kind of didn't hear
anything for a while and was interviewing elsewhere, and then
out of the blue, Murph calls and he's like, hey,
are you good with numbers? And I'm like, do you
remember my my resume anything? And he's like, hey, I've
got a project for you. And the project Murph gave
me was the company was about to buy a thirty
(08:46):
thousand dollars I think it was phone system, and he
was like, can you see and do some research and
find out if this is the right purchase for us.
And I spent about a week with them, and first
off told them, no, it wasn't a better solution for
five thousand dollars. But that was kind of the first
project you gave me.
Speaker 3 (09:05):
And then it was here you go.
Speaker 1 (09:07):
You're in charge of payroll, benefits and everything else at
the in our bank accounts.
Speaker 3 (09:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:13):
I mean the big thing was that justin knew how
to use Excel and Eve and I had no idea,
so the.
Speaker 3 (09:17):
Little thing, do you know how to use Excel?
Speaker 2 (09:19):
At this point, I can use Excel. Still not great
paying bills, but yeah we're good. Yeah, no, so yeah,
I mean it was a totally different time there. I
mean's twenty four years ago. We were so happy to
get the help. We didn't know if we could afford
the help either, because at the time we're still looking
for funding for the company. So we didn't have funding
at the time, and you and I went on a
bunch of meetings looking for funding. You remember that, Yep.
(09:42):
I was quite quite the adventure.
Speaker 3 (09:43):
Different different times for sure.
Speaker 2 (09:45):
Yeah, but eventually, you know, we so we hired justin
full time. What number employee were you, I was.
Speaker 3 (09:51):
Probably like eight or nine.
Speaker 1 (09:53):
But I think I was the first one that had
zero connection right to the company, you know, murfht Higher,
his good college friend as our general counsel. I think
you had brought in Drew Bledsoe's sister.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
In law, yep, yep, yep.
Speaker 1 (10:10):
But other than that, everybody else, like the other five
people had come from the other spot. So I was
the first one, and within a week they're like, here's
our bank account, information and here's our payroll and go
ahead and run with it.
Speaker 2 (10:21):
I don't know where our money have been for two decades.
Speaker 3 (10:23):
Neither do I. Yeah, we're good.
Speaker 2 (10:25):
Great, that's great. So let's talk about that a little bit,
because you know we're going to talk about in the
next podcast. Is you know, justin Herbert deal and obviously
eventually became certified. We'll get into all that. But very unique.
I don't think there's anyone else in our industry who
can say that they were both a superagent and like that.
Let's start with the CFO. I mean like paying the bills,
(10:46):
setting out billing, like telling us how much money we had,
Like did you expect that? Did he want that?
Speaker 1 (10:51):
And it's a good question. It's funny because you and
I talk about like I'm not. I wasn't qualified to
be a CFO. I just happened to be good with
numbers and had a basic understand of finance. But when
I joined, I had zero again interest in being an agent.
And then I remember you guys shoot April of twenty
twenty three, so I'd been there for about six seven
(11:12):
months and it was Carson palmer'sou sorry two thousand and
three it's Carson Palmer's contract. And I remember you guys
pulled me into that and we're walking through net present
value and stuff in the little war room and and
I remember, so I was involved in that deal and
involved in a couple of other free agent deals, and
I think it was like two thousand and four. So
(11:33):
you're like, hey, we need you to go get certified.
And I was like, this is not what I wanted,
you know, this is this isn't what I signed up for.
But I ended up doing it and started recruiting there,
and yeah, it's been great.
Speaker 2 (11:45):
I love those stats to the CFO part again, the
seats of the CFO par for sure, Like so you
did that for a long time.
Speaker 1 (11:51):
I've did that for a really long time, through a
bankruptcy and through everything. Yeah, I did that and watched
us grow and tried to put it, as I called it,
a tent on our circus, and it was, you know,
you can attest not easy, especially as we're growing.
Speaker 2 (12:07):
We also did number of transactions, right, and we went
down the road along way with Wasserman at one point
that's right, maybe think about selling to them. We sold
a third of a company, Dentsu in Japan, and then
you know, the last couple of years we did our
most recent deal, we sped for two months of coming
but that was all me, you and the General Council
just figuring it out one hundred percent.
Speaker 1 (12:25):
It was trial by fire. And I remember, you know,
in the Washerman transaction, it was completely new to us, right.
I think we had a lawyer guide us for a
little bit, but for us it was pretty much on
our own, and then similar through DNSU and then definitely
with the most recent transaction. But I think a lot
of it was just hey, we'll figure it out, right,
and you know, and I think we've gotten to a
(12:47):
point where it's like, Okay, we can't stop figuring it out. Yep,
let's get someone who can who's actually done this.
Speaker 2 (12:52):
And now a lot about that. But then you also
see you all in a way I mean running. I mean,
so talk about like the training program, I mean how
you kind of took that and ran with it.
Speaker 1 (13:00):
And yeah, because when I started, you guys had I
think trained in Florida for a year something like that.
Speaker 2 (13:05):
Disney World, dis World right an Kingdom or something, Disney
World Animal Kingdom and why will the sports awesome?
Speaker 3 (13:14):
And it was amazing.
Speaker 1 (13:16):
You guys did that and paid for a Super Bowl
party for two hundred and fifty two thousand dollars or
something like that.
Speaker 3 (13:22):
Shocking for you. You pre me.
Speaker 1 (13:26):
So, you know, we talked about training, and there was
there was definitely options to do it at a place
where they do it for you, but I think you know,
you and I looked at it and said, it's two
cookie cutter, let's do our own situation. And yeah, you
didn't want to go back to the buffet. So we
found Soca University I think was our first place, and
a trainer named Chuck Williams, and it kind of grew
(13:49):
from there and we did it there, and then we
went over to Velocity and formed a partnership with them,
and I just remember doing research on all these different
places and trying to figure out, hey, listen, it's more
cost effect, but it won't be done the athletes first way, yep.
And then the question just becomes how can we do
it ourselves and make it better and better and better?
And we did, and I think, you know, we've built
(14:10):
something that's completely unique with our academy in that you know,
I think we were the only first agency to do
it and have their own spot. I think there's maybe
one or two that I've tried to follow suit, but
you know the results have been fantastic and we're excited
about what's to come with that.
Speaker 2 (14:25):
Yeah. No, I remember you try all the country looking
for the best place and come back saying, you know,
we need to build the best place. We did create
the best place and have to be the Athletes First
Academy and go from there. Another project you worked on
as CEO, which I think is was disruptive, no very unique.
No one still done it. But you and I started
the Athletes First Classic together. Can you tell us a
little bit about that?
Speaker 1 (14:44):
Yeah, And in fact, it's funny. I still have the
presentation I made to you when I was kind of
trying to create a job, and one of them was
let's do a charity golf tournament. And yeah, so that
was two thousand and four for Junior Achievement benefiting junior achievement.
I remember you and I. You know, we sent out
the invitations probably eight weeks before the event, but we
(15:05):
sent out invitations and we're trying to sell it, and
I think you and I looked at each other and
we're like, oh, shit, like here we go. And I
remember we partnered up with Noah McMahon and his company
and at the time was McMahon Marketing and the three
of us and Jessica Hudson from our office. You know,
all of a sudden, we're planning a wedding for six
hundred people in addition to everything else we're doing. But
(15:29):
for us, it was, hey, we always tell our players
to give back and to do good. Well, why aren't
we doing the same thing. So we started that and
at a you know, I think the first year was
pretty good, and then it grew from there and supported
Orangewood for fifteen years or so and has continued to
grow and prosper and has raised probably ten million plus
(15:50):
for the charities that we worked with. So yeah, pretty
cool experience. And I think again something that makes athletes
first unique. I think others do smaller charity events, but
no one's done it with our scale.
Speaker 2 (16:01):
No now, I speaking a whole weekend and you know,
now we're working with xals and probably done about twenty
years and I'd say, you know, far far north to
ten million. But also like it just it's a great
way to get all of our clients together, and our
network together, and brands together, and our company together, employees
together as well.
Speaker 1 (16:18):
I will say I do not miss the week of
you and I doing seating charts for six hundred people. Yeah,
that was that was definitely something that it was good
to pass on.
Speaker 2 (16:28):
And I think that's an interesting point to make, right
because when you came on, you said you were the
eighth employee. Now we have eighty five employees. We were
a mom and pop and we pride ourselves on being
a mom and pop. But talk a little bit about
what that means to be a mom and pop like
you and I doing seating charts, you know, stuff like that.
Speaker 1 (16:44):
Absolutely, I think you know it was. It was the
jack of all trades. It literally was do whatever you can,
roll up your sleeves and and candidly that's one of
how I was raised in two I don't think I've changed.
I mean, I've been doing this for twenty three years.
I still pick up my players at the airport when
they arrived for training. I still pack up the training
camp gifts when they come into the office and and
(17:05):
help the interns with that sort of stuff. I think
you know, once you lose that, you lose the culture
of this place. And I think one of the great
things has been how everybody's willing to pitch in and
and do their part and actually do more than their part.
Speaker 2 (17:19):
And do you think they coming from like coming from
an outsider, like starting at the beginning on, like, because
we've done a lot of things. You've initiated a lot
of things that no other agency's done and they don't
do now, Like, is that because you had an outsider's perspective?
Is because you weren't need to grow up in I
mean you just grew up in athletes first, but yeah,
an in turn anywhere else?
Speaker 1 (17:35):
Right, Yeah, I think it's also you know, listen, I've
learned from you, like you continuously want to evolve, right,
and you continuously want to get better, and you push
me in that sense. Right, sometimes I'm the hey, let's
take a breath and figure out what we're doing, and
you continuously want to push you know. I think the
growing up in this place, you just you build a
(17:55):
pride that's unlike any other. And what's interesting is, yeah,
we have eighty six and plays, but the vast majority
I would say this.
Speaker 2 (18:03):
Is their first job, yep.
Speaker 1 (18:05):
And that's a blessing and a curse. Right, it's a blessing.
I remember when I got here and started with like, hey,
we're going to fill out expense report this way, because
this is how I saw it at the MBA, and
everyone was like no, no, no, no, no, no, no, Like
what are you doing. Don't we don't do stuff like that.
I'm like, no, we're going to do stuff like that.
And I think that, you know, that's one of the
struggles of going from a small startup to now a
(18:28):
mid sized company, is you know, I said a reference before,
trying to put the tender on the circus and add
some structure and do those things. But as long as
you do them and then you know everybody understands that
you're doing it for a reason, I think it kind
of benefits everybody.
Speaker 2 (18:41):
We talked a little bit about better together in that philosophy.
I mean, I think like when we were growing up
and building this business together, we had to do everything,
and you had to do together because we had five, six, ten,
twelve people competing against agencies that had one hundred people,
and we weren't working together, we wasn't gonna get done.
Speaker 1 (18:56):
Not to mention, I mean, remember go back to that time.
We were facing it judgment of forty four million dollars.
We were in bankruptcy while we appealed a judgment that
was unfairly you know, put upon us. So like, yeah,
it was fight and scrap and I think that it's
something that you know, defined who we were then. You know,
if you look back at the competition in the agency
(19:19):
business back then, most of those people are gone, either
they've been eaten up into other mergers or they've switched.
I mean, that's one of the things I talked to
people about our firm. If you look at our senior management,
you look at our senior agents, nobody's left, like people like,
it's very rare in our business to have employees who
have been here for twenty plus years in the same place.
(19:41):
So you look at yourself, you look at me, You
look at Ryan Williams, you look David will gettus starting
as an intern here. You know, Carmen Wallace has been
here the entire time. Like people haven't left. Cal McCarthy
was a player client of ours. Nobody's left. And I
think that's a real tribute to what we built.
Speaker 2 (19:58):
Yeah, it was great, it's great. So let's let's talk
a little bit about our relationship. You know, I think
is unique, right, like, how how would you We've been
working together for twenty three years whatnot? And we do
everything together, Like, how would you describe our relationship?
Speaker 1 (20:12):
It's the reason I'm bald, large and no, it's listen.
I think you and I have have been a perfect
foil to one another in that you're the big visionary,
You're the always positive, and I'm probably the more detail
for it, foot detail focused and more realistic of the two.
(20:33):
You can say pessimistic, Okay, you know everybody calls me pessimistic,
but it's like I actually look the word realistic. But no,
I mean we've worked well together. I think you you
have your you know, your visions of how you want
things to go, and then but you are open to
kind of seeing the other side of things. And then
I've obviously had to adjust how I work to kind
(20:56):
of make what you want come to fruition.
Speaker 3 (20:59):
If that makes sense. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (21:00):
No, and I think we look at the world very differently.
But I would say, without question, we're not doing this
podcast Athletes First doesn't have all these great accolades. If
you hadn't come on board if you hadn't written that letter,
if you hadn't taken on the role of COO, if
you hadn't taken the role of CFO, and if you
hadn't been one of the few people along with Hume's,
who stand up to me to say no, no, that's
too far, we can't do that. You know.
Speaker 3 (21:21):
That's why I was here.
Speaker 2 (21:22):
Yeah, yeah, so I think that's great. But also you've
been a huge help in terms of being an agent,
you know, and diving to that part of your career.
Kind of talk about a little bit like so what
you were helping us on the Carson Palmer A deal.
Speaker 1 (21:37):
Yeah, helping on that, helping on I think a couple
of the free agent deals around that time. I think
it was like Todd Heap ray Lewis that that sort
of stuff, and you and had come to me, I
think in a couple of others and said, hey, go
get licensed.
Speaker 3 (21:48):
And I went through that.
Speaker 1 (21:50):
Process and had my first draft class in two thousand
and five, so twenty years ago. And I've loved that
part of my job. You know, I've worked with probably
anywhere from at a time when I started, you know,
it was ten guys on rosters. Now it's you know,
twenty three, twenty four guys, and it's it's it's great, Like,
I do love that part of my job, but I
think it's changed. The business has changed dramatically, and we
(22:12):
can always get into that. But working with the guys
and helping the guys and guiding them through their careers
has been something I truly.
Speaker 2 (22:20):
Love And no pun intended by this. But who was
your first big client?
Speaker 1 (22:25):
First client? Brandon Jacobs. So you're right about big six
foot four, two hundred and fifty two pounds or something
like two hundred and sixty pounds running back.
Speaker 3 (22:35):
One of the largest men I'd ever seen.
Speaker 1 (22:36):
And what's crazy about it is the first time I
laid eyes on him was when he came to train.
You think about how the business is now with recruiting
and whatnot. I remember waiting for him a John Wayne
Airport and I see this guy coming down the escalator
and I'm like, oh my god, that's a running back.
Speaker 4 (22:51):
So in the recruitment process, you'd never met him.
Speaker 1 (22:54):
No, it was all via text message, phone calls. I
did go meet his father in law, helped them with
the I did go there to Holtonhead, South Carolina and
met with him. But other than that, it was it
was all phone calls and text messages.
Speaker 4 (23:07):
Which is so much different than today when you're seeing
people ten, fifteen, twenty times before they ever.
Speaker 2 (23:14):
Signed in Zoom. He had zoom back then. We I
mean you have zoom back then, right?
Speaker 1 (23:17):
Who was so Brandon was a running back. It was
a big time high school running back in Napoleonville, Louisiana
who went to Auburn and was the third of third
member of a unbelievable running back room which had Cadillac
Williams and Ronnie Brown, which I think you two top
five running backs right in the two thousand and five draft,
(23:40):
and Brandon ended up leaving, transferring to Southern Illinois so
that he was able to get on the field and
had an good year in Southern Illinois, was invited to
the Shrine Game. I remember the Senior Bowl didn't wan
him because they didn't think he was a running back,
and Brandon ended up drafting the fourth round by the
New York Giants. The number of teams tried to make
him a tight end and we're considering that in the
(24:02):
draft process. Giants drafted him and he won two Super Bowls.
I think he either had or still has the most
touchdowns in franchise history or something like rushing touchdowns. I
don't I don't remember, but it was he had a
great career with the Giants, beloved in New York, and
I think the stat at the time was there were
taller running backs and there were heavier running backs, but
(24:24):
the combination he was the largest in terms of the both.
Speaker 2 (24:28):
He has a son right now. It's a pretty good player.
Speaker 1 (24:30):
Yeah, his son and again making me feel old, his
son is graduating. He's a six foot seven, three hundred
and thirty pound offensive lineman at eighteen years old going
to Clemson. I think he had thirty forty offers. So yeah,
as I told Brandon, I think my career will start
with Brandon and with Brandon. But now it's pretty cool
(24:52):
to see that.
Speaker 2 (24:52):
And then you were going to talk a little bit
about Justin Herbert in the next episode. But you also
represent a number of other quarterbacks who you became very
close to.
Speaker 1 (24:59):
Sure, very very fortunate to work with guys like Chad Henny,
who came from my alma mater, so obviously that was
that was really really special. Worked with Chad Henny, worked
with John Beck another second rounder who's a phenomenal quarterback
trainer now was close with Kellen Clemens when he was
in the league. And then Nick Foles obviously was another
(25:21):
quarterback that I worked with.
Speaker 2 (25:22):
Yep ye, and how and how has that been that experiential?
All of them different?
Speaker 3 (25:25):
Right, it's completely different.
Speaker 1 (25:27):
And uh, you know, I was saying to somebody else
the other day, when you watch your client who's a
quarterback play, you get a little bit nervous. No matter
how long you've been doing it, you just get nervous.
Even with a guy like Justin, you know, as talented
as he is, when you watch him drop back and pass,
you're like, just hope it all goes well.
Speaker 2 (25:49):
You watch the games differently for sure, completely different way.
I mean I remember when when Tom Brady went down
and met Castle came in, Like I think I was
at a restaurant watching the game. I ran, I raised home,
I gotta watch this by myself, right a like I
don't know what's going to happen. Went pretty well. But
and then you know, you have a very unique ability.
Some people call it luck. Some people go up skill,
(26:09):
but of signings mid round players who go on to
be the best at their position. You kind of tell
us about a couple of them.
Speaker 1 (26:17):
Yeah, I mean again, I luck definitely plays into it.
But you look at some players and the draft. You know,
I always tell recruits the draft is wrong more than
it's right, you know, I think when you look at
it just in terms of there's plenty of guys who
are drafting the third fourth round that make a ton
of money and guys in the first round who don't
get out of their first contract. So yeah, I've been
(26:38):
fortunate to have some of those mid round picks. Brandon
was a fourth round pick, played for a long time
as a running back. Mark Andrews was a third round pick,
arguably one of the top tight ends. Fred Warner was
a third round pick. Best linebacker in the league right now?
And yeah, there have been a handful fortunate Nick Foles
(26:58):
was a third round pick. There's a live I was
just about to say. Pookin Nikua. See Pookin Nakua is
another perfect example where again it's it's a yeah, you
think they're good players. Did I think Fred Warner would
become the best linebacker in the league. No, Like, you know,
and I love Fredd and he is the best of
what he does and he's on the path to a
gold jacket, but like he was kind of out of
(27:20):
position in college. And then you look at a guy
like Nick. Going back to quarterbacks, so much of it
for a quarterback is not just where you're drafted, but
the situation that you're in. And I know you've seen
this as well with guys, but you know, you look
at a guy like John Beck, fortieth pick overall, second round,
was drafted to a really bad team, and you know
(27:42):
their intent was not to play him, and I think
they were zero to eight and finally they're like, let's
just see what we have with them, and then he played.
They went one in fifteen, They fired the head coach,
they fired the jam who drafted him, and then ironically
draft Chad Henny. But it's like John gets labeled, you know,
because of that perform And you know, it's interesting because
we're talking quarterbacks. That position has just so much scrutiny
(28:06):
where you know, you'd rather be drafted later into a
good situation. Right, Like Nick his super Bowl runs, he
had great teams around him, and yeah, Nick played really
well in the Super Bowl run, in the playoff run,
but you know, look what happened to Nick in Saint Louisa,
right when he doesn't have as good of a situation.
Speaker 2 (28:23):
So, you know, a couple of young guys now that
we're excited about too, right.
Speaker 3 (28:27):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (28:27):
In terms of quarterback, yeah, yeah, a couple of years ago,
I was fortunate to work with Jake Hayner, was drafted
by the New Orleans Saints, and Tanner McKee, who was
drafted by the Philadelphia Eagles. You know, Tanner's an interesting
one because when he came out of high school, it
was him, Trevor Lawrence, and Justin Fields were the top three.
And then Tanner went on a Mormon mission for two years,
and Tanner chose the non traditional football school. He chose Stanford,
(28:51):
whereas Trevor went to Clemson and Justin went to Georgia
and then to Ohio State. And you know, candidly, Stanford
was not good. Yeah, and in effective Hanner's play to
the point where you know, from a draft perspective, he
was not highly sought after because the film was so bad.
But kudos to you know, Howie Rosemand. He's a six
round pick. He's made the roster for two years, and
(29:12):
I know they're excited about him.
Speaker 2 (29:14):
Great future, So we're going to jump in a little
that's your recruiting. But you know we're here to talk
about contracts. So do you want to summarize some of
Justin's highlights since he doesn't like to really talk about himself.
Speaker 4 (29:25):
Yeah, No, we definitely want to get into some deals
on the on this episode, and Justin's got a bunch
of them. We can talk about one specifically, and we've
talked about him a little bit already is Nick Foles.
And he had an extremely unique career path from where
he started, where he bounced around to there were talks
that at one point he was going to consider retirement
and then he ends up at the pinnacle of the
(29:46):
entire sport. So just any insight on that because I
wasn't here yet, so I'd love to hear your your
thoughts on it.
Speaker 3 (29:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (29:52):
Nick was an interesting one because obviously he got drafted
by Howie Roseman and Andy Reid and Doug Peterson was
the offensive cornert of the in Philadelphia, played a little
bit and then Andy was let go and they cleared
house and brought in Chip Kelly, and there were concerns
about how Nick would work in that system. And actually,
(30:14):
if you remember and you go back, he was phenomenal
in that system, made a Pro Bowl in that system.
But for whatever reason, Andy decided he was not gonna
be not Andy Chip decided he wasn't gonna be the future,
so traded him to Saint Louis. I think right around
free agency, if I believe, if I'm correct, and you know,
(30:35):
suffice to say, it just didn't work. It was a disaster.
I think it was Saint Louis's last year in Saint
Louis and just the whole situation was not good and
uh and Nick completely candidly lost the love of the game.
It was really hard on him emotionally, spiritually. He's a
very spiritual person. He just struggled with it and was
(30:59):
pretty much done with football. You said he was considering retirement.
I'm pretty sure he was retired. He was done, and
I remember talking to him a lot about is this
how you want.
Speaker 3 (31:09):
To end your career? And how do you want to
walk away? And he was just so spent.
Speaker 1 (31:14):
You know, I think his story has been told that
he was done and then he decided to reconsider and
come back, and Nick and I joke, He's found a
way to ruin multiple family vacations. That one was he
called while we were in the Bahamas at Atlantis and said,
I want to play, and I only want to play
for one team. And I spent the rest of the
vacation in the business center and on the floor of
(31:36):
my of our bathroom at nights working on a contract
with the Kansas City Chiefs. And then obviously for him
to come back. He found the love again in one year,
and then how.
Speaker 4 (31:45):
He Kansas City he chose because of.
Speaker 3 (31:47):
Andy, and it was the comfort, good, good point.
Speaker 1 (31:50):
If anybody was going to help him find the love again,
it was Andy, and he did so.
Speaker 3 (31:55):
He was there for a year.
Speaker 1 (31:56):
And then at that time Howie Roseman right after that,
how he became GM again basically in Philadelphia and called
and said I want Nick back, and we worked on
a contract. It was actually it was how and I
talked about this recently. It was them in Tampa Bay
and we finished the contract at the Athletes First Classic,
(32:17):
and how he was at a wedding and the two
of us left our respective events to go work out
the details. But he went back and then obviously he's
now the king of Philadelphia'll never have to pay for
a meal there or anything like that.
Speaker 2 (32:29):
Right, And so what's amis you grin as a Patriots fan?
Speaker 4 (32:32):
Yeah? Yeah, So he wins Super Bowl MVP. Ye, He's
got two years left on his contract at the time
as basically a backup level contract, right, but he's a
Super Bowl MVP. So you want to adjust it and
do something to reward him for what he had just done,
and you come up with this creative concept of a contract.
I find it extremely interesting. So if you want to
(32:54):
just touch on that.
Speaker 1 (32:55):
Yeah, I think I don't remember he had one or
two years left, but it was how do we get
him paid more or retroactively to what he did, not
for what he's going to do. And that was kind
of the big struggle because at that time, I don't
think anybody had really done that, like get something for
absolutely nothing, right.
Speaker 3 (33:11):
I think we've.
Speaker 1 (33:12):
Seen it now recently, sure, but back then, eight years
ago or whatever it was, you know, it was like, no, like,
there's a contract, he has incentives, he got paid for
the incentives, but it was like, okay, but he did
something so extreme. So what we ended up with an
agreement was I believe we definitely added some incentives to
the next year that would you know, reward him if
(33:34):
he did even more. But then we got him an
extra two million dollars of cash, and then we added
some language to it whereby the team could pick up
an option for an extra year. But then Nick had
the ability to buy back that year by returning the
two million dollars, which would then put the team in
(33:55):
the position of do you let him go and be
an unrestricted free agent or do you franchise tag him.
So the team ultimately had the final trump card or
the final decision. But we did this. If if Nick
hadn't played that year as well, because Carson Wentz had
gotten hurt, he would have gotten two million dollars and
everybody would have gone their separate ways. But because Nick
(34:16):
actually took them, I think it was to the division
championship again. You know, there were all these dominoes went
into effect. So at the end of the day, what
ended up happening was the team picked up the option,
they gave Nick two million dollars more. Nick bought back
his freedom, and then the team had to make a
decision did they let him hit the open market or
(34:37):
do they franchise tag him. I think the franchise tag
was maybe thirty million dollars or something like that. They
opted not to franchise tag him, and he went to
Jacksonville where we signed a I think he had fifty
million dollars guaranteed or something like that, forty four to.
Speaker 3 (34:50):
Fifty million dollars.
Speaker 1 (34:51):
So he ended up having to pay back the two million,
but he bought his freedom, which was ended up being
much more lucrative.
Speaker 4 (34:58):
Right, And so this is it's so unique in the
NFL because, like you said, I don't think there's another
one that has been done like this, at least not
under modern cbas. But it's something that happens a lot
of times in NBA and MLB where you see players
buying their right to free agency or opting out of
the contract. This is essentially an opt out. But he
had to write a check and send back to Jeffrey Laurie,
(35:18):
here's my two million dollars that you had given me.
You can have it back.
Speaker 1 (35:21):
Yeah, you know, it's really funny. A couple of things.
I think you're right, Like, I don't think there are
you see opt outs in baseball, right, especially in baseball
or player options basketball too, but even in baseball player
can opt out and cut certain I think Soto's deal
has an opt out that just got done. But yeah,
in football was very rare. And I remember helping Nick
write the letter to Jeffrey or I think it was
(35:43):
Jeffrey and Howie at the time, but it was something different.
And it was because again we were asking for free money.
And again I don't want to call it free. He
had won the Super Bowl for them, but we were
asking for something and this was their quid pro quo.
So yes, he ended up writing the check for two
million dollars, which, by the way, stung, don't get me wrong.
But then to be able to right to buy your freedom,
(36:07):
you know, and be able to go sign a free
agent because again, how many quarterbacks at free agency and
sign you know, good starter type deals.
Speaker 3 (36:16):
It was kind of the happy medium.
Speaker 2 (36:18):
And did the I'll give you two million dollars right now,
If you give you fifty million.
Speaker 3 (36:22):
Right that's a good investment.
Speaker 4 (36:23):
Did the final deal then come with the statue that
they ended up putting outside the stadium.
Speaker 1 (36:27):
Yeah, I mean, you know, it's actually kind of So
Nick retired officially earlier this year and went back to
Lincoln Financial for the first time for a game since
he left the team, And as we were leaving the stadium,
he's like, I want my kids to see the statue.
So we had an escort with us and literally had
(36:47):
to go halfway around the stadium just Nick could show
his kids the statue, which is still there. Yeah, pretty
pretty crazy because the coach isn't there, the player isn't there.
But you don't realize how much a franchise cares until
they win something that they have never really won before.
Speaker 4 (37:06):
They still have the Super Bowl Trophy. And I bet
a lot of fans when they saw him walking through
were yelling at Philly, Philly at.
Speaker 3 (37:11):
Him going crazy.
Speaker 1 (37:12):
I mean the stuff that we've seen and we've heard,
and tattoos of him and things like that. I mean,
you literally are talking about a guy who was traded away,
you know, and kudos to Howie Roseman. He was Howie's
guy and how he found a way to and you know,
even later in his career, Howie and I talked about
ways to get Nick back and it was close actually
a couple right before he retired, a couple of years
(37:34):
before he retired.
Speaker 3 (37:35):
Of going back to Philadelphia. But yeah, it's funny. I
don't get it as much.
Speaker 1 (37:41):
And this goes to something you've always said, Murph is like,
we don't enjoy our victories right enough, right like he
was super MVP. There's fifty five of those guys, and
actually Brady probably has like three of them, so there's
really fifty of those guys. I mean, what Nick did
was incredible and one of the most unique situations that
there was.
Speaker 2 (38:00):
Yep, I think, yeah, I think it's it's you know,
that contract as agent said, that contract has never been
replicated that run. I don't know if it's I mean,
I don't know if there's been another backup quarterback who
did that right but and then't do that in that
cities is encuarreter Upe. So well, you have a lot
of other contracts we're going to talk about in the
next episode, you know, Fred Warner. And as we wrap
up this episode, like we kind of like to wrap
(38:20):
up every episode with like lessons learned, you know, and
from this and and uh, you know, for me for
this podcast, the one lesson I learned, which I think
is appable that all industries, not just sports agency, is
that if you want to build a company, you know
from the ground up, which is what we did. You
want to build companies can become the best in the industry,
which what we did, you have to find people like Justin.
(38:42):
And by that I don't mean pessimistic, but I mean
people who are an incredibly intelligent and willing to roll
up their sleeves and do whatever it takes to get
the job done and put their ego aside. And that
is very unusual in our industries, particularly the ego part.
Speaker 3 (38:57):
Right.
Speaker 2 (38:58):
But over the twenty three years Justin and I work together,
I can't tell you how valuable his intelligence has.
Speaker 3 (39:04):
Been, you know.
Speaker 2 (39:05):
And again we don't have an industry like as run
on intelligence, right, and so like you know, having that
intelligence and being able to take that intelligence and say, hey,
let's go start our own athletes first cabin, let's go
start our own classic charity event, you know, and then
do the NIT present value and all the calculations and
so you know, he's obviously gets along very well. Great personality,
(39:27):
great family man, great values, but that intelligence and being
willing up to roll up your sleeve and do whatever
it takes to be the best. Anyone out there is
looking to start a company, go find yourself a Justin
because you're not gonna be able to do it without
Without that type of person.
Speaker 3 (39:40):
I appreciate it.
Speaker 4 (39:40):
I think my takeaway kind of piggybacks off that is
the you know, Justin's willingness and ability to just be
that jack of all trades where he is just looking
around the office, like what else needs to be done,
I'm going to just do it. I'm not going to
wait for the person who has that responsibility to get
it done, whether it's you know, going to the airport
and picking up clients or or anything else that you
(40:01):
do around the office, even to the point of you're
on a family vacation but you're in the business center
working because that's just you love what you do so much.
So I think that that speaks volumes of you.
Speaker 3 (40:13):
I appreciate.
Speaker 1 (40:14):
I think it goes back to kind of that advice
my dad gave me all those years ago, right, find
a place where you love what you do and it's
not work.
Speaker 3 (40:22):
I mean, yes, don't.
Speaker 1 (40:23):
Get me wrong, we're always on call and those sort
of things, but I'd rather be working on budgets for
our contract values than widgets, you know. And actually I'd.
Speaker 3 (40:33):
Prefer not doing any of those anymore.
Speaker 1 (40:34):
But now it's I appreciate you, murf for responding to
that email and putting me in that room for six
hours with no food, no water. But listen, we're fortunate
where we work, and I think it's hard because sometimes
I think, you know, I try to remind our employees
don't take this for granted, Like it's not the same.
Speaker 3 (40:52):
I remember real quick.
Speaker 1 (40:54):
I remember when I went and spoke at UCLA, and
as I finished, I texted, you probably won't remember this,
but I got home and I emailed the office just
to say, hey, guys, like, take a step back and
realize how lucky we are to do what we do,
and how many people want this job without knowing the
headaches that come of it, but like appreciate it and
love what you do and give back to this company.
Speaker 3 (41:16):
So it's been awesome. Look forward to them more.
Speaker 2 (41:19):
And I think that's one of the reasons we're doing
this podcast, which like is you know, be on all
of our comfort zone, but like we want to be
able to share the athlete's story with all people out
there who want to listen and share our lessons and
tell them listen, what we've done, you can do, you know,
I mean it's we're in a great place and I
think talking about it and going down this history is
it makes me appreciate even more so.
Speaker 1 (41:40):
Absolutely, and we're just fortunate like the guys we work with,
the Nick Foles of the world, the Fred Warrens of
the world, Mark Andres of the world. Justin there's great people,
great people. Were really fortunate to work with them and
makes it even better.
Speaker 2 (41:50):
Yeah, well, Justin, we thank you for coming on this episode.
Hope everyone joins us for the next episode where we
get into Justin Shulman's to goitiation of Justin Herbert's record
breaking deal for the Chargers. Another phenomenal story, very unique,
and we look forward to having you back.
Speaker 3 (42:09):
Sounds good, guys,
Hosts And Creators
Brian Murphy
AJ Stevens
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