'After The Final Rose' Part 1 with Topher Grace & Aven

It’s "The Bachelorette: After the Final Rose" part one! Becca and Michelle are unpacking everything that happened during part one and the dramatic breakups that took place. Then, they're joined by TV star and Bachelor superfan Topher Grace for a convo all about what went down this season, what really goes on behind the scenes of "The Bachelorette," and his new show "Home Economics" on ABC.  

Plus, Aven stops by to talk about his emotional goodbye to Rachel in Mexico and how it really felt to see her again. 

Don’t forget to rate and subscribe so you never miss an episode.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:02):
Welcome back, happy our listeners. I'm Becky Hoofrid and I'm
Michelle Young, and we are so thrilled to be back
this week because home Man alive. Oh, I don't even
want to see a lot. So much happened during this
finale and like what, like, how are you feeling right now, Michelle?

(00:22):
That was a lot to take it. I'm feeling stressed,
and I'm feeling stressed because I know that that was
the less dramatic episode between the two parts. So it's finale.
It's it's the finale, is the part one of the Bachelorette.
I'm happy to be back here. I'm stressed, I'm excited.

(00:43):
I can't wait. There's gonna be so much that's gonna happen,
but I'm here with you, Becca, and we are going
to be talking to TV star and Bachelor fan tofer Grace,
and we finally have Avon here. Oh I cannot wait.
I always love having a guest fan on and even
as somebody that we have been asking for since the beginning,
and it is finally time because we saw the most

(01:06):
out of Avon that we've seen this season. So I
can't wait to have them both on let's just get
into everything that went down, because holy smoke, golies, I
don't even know where to begin, and Michelle help me out.
Holy smoke, goalies. I've never honestly I didn't think you

(01:28):
could get more in Minnesotan than you just didlies. You
can take the girl out of Minnesota, but you can't
take the Minnesota out of the girl, right. I just
it was wild and like I think the most jarring
thing for me to watch. It's not only like seeing
how everything went down a few months ago between both
women and their men, but like the little box on

(01:53):
the screen with their faces in the corner throughout the
entire episode was just like bonkers to me. Seeing Rachel
face at the end, like when Jesse was kind of
closing out the show was so much to take in
and we obviously know a little bit of what happens,
and the viewers are getting more, you know, with that

(02:13):
final teaser, but like both women only have one man left.
That's really funny that you bring up the little box,
especially like during these live episodes, is because I honestly
check people's expressions all the time because you can get
potentially a really good gauge on just like body language

(02:34):
reading and you can kind of tell, like you picked
up that there's a lot that happened, like there's some
raw emotion. I'm just not sure what it is. Speaking
of poker face, I mean Rachel's was shown for a
majority throughout this entire episode, and it's like very much stoic,
but like also looking a little piss just through it all.

(02:56):
I don't know. It's going to be so interesting to
because I feel like usually with the finales, it's such
a joyous time, like for the most part, the lead
is in love there with someone and we don't know
what happens next week, Like are there two engagements? Is
there one? Will there be zero? We don't know, And

(03:17):
that's where it's just going to be a lot to
take it. Okay, I have a question to ask you
or just in observation, do you feel like m do
you feel like Rachel seemed more relaxed at Mental All
then she seemed at this episode or during this episode

(03:40):
one thousand percent she seemed more relaxed and mental all
one thousand percent like something more relaxed at Mental or
you less relaxed and mental because it's like you're kind
of in the hot seat, You're kind of under fire, M.
I was like pretty relaxed for both, to be honest,
because like, don't I didn't really have any like drama

(04:03):
with any of the drama that was on my season
was with the other guys, not with me, Like, so
I went into both segments like pretty excited and just
like ready to do them and move on from them,
like I think she. I think they both, to be honest,
seemed more relaxed during the tell all what about you?

(04:27):
I would I would definitely agree they seemed more relaxed,
and they just kind of this this episode, they just
seemed a little more um tired. It's a but it's
also a long road like this is, you know what
I mean, Like, yes, the season has gone by fast,
and it's gone by fast for I think us viewers,

(04:48):
but as a lead, you've been going through it for
so long now that it's like it they thought they
were gonna be done last week and now it's like, oh, pa,
just kidding, we're gonna be splitting it up, so you
know what I mean, And it's just like there's a
lot happening. Being live is like I can't even begin
to describe how just like anxiety word in it is

(05:10):
to know that everything that you're saying and doing is
like live streaming in front of millions of people. It's
like such a scary thing. Yeah. And then plus, like
we know a little bit of the teaser of like
there's clearly drama with Rachel and Tino. Who is her
last man standing? If anyone has lived under a rock
this past week, I'm sorry, but like there's a scandal

(05:32):
now coming out with Gabby and Eric that they're dealing with,
and I don't even want to touch that right now,
but like there's a lot for these two women, and
I'm sure at this point they're just like you said, tired, exhausted,
like ready to move on and be done with it,
and I don't blame them. We have to bring on
our first guest, Toper. He and his wife Ashley are
self proclaimed Bachelor super fans, so we're super excited to

(05:55):
have him and I know he's going to have a
lot to say after tonight's episode. He sure is, and
we're gonna go ahead and bring him on. Welcome to
Bachelor Happy Hour, toefor tofor we are so excited to
have you here. I feel like we're all a little
bit nervous because we're so pumped nearly as excited as

(06:15):
uh and jealous as my wife is we Uh, she's
the super fan. I'm like her, um, you know, like
her her co partner on this, but she's like, you
got me hooks. Originally, I love it. Watch both your
guys as seasons. We thought you guys were great. We're
really rooting for you guys. Oh Stu Ones you kind

(06:38):
of you root again, I mean, you know what it's like,
but they're ones. You don't root for it. But you
guys are awesome. Oh absolutely, And we definitely want to
get into who you're rooting for this season, but we
heard that's a that's like kind of a trick question,
but we want it truly is though it truly is.
But as big of fans we are of you, we

(06:58):
have her that you are also, along with your wife,
quite a huge fan. Well you know. Yeah. It started
where I was like, um, forced to watch it, um
one Pablo season and I was like what is this?
Like this is terrible, and then into the humor of it,
and then I remember my wife like I was on

(07:20):
location doing a movie and I was like, were you
gonna watch it tonight or can you just like wait
until the weekend? Like and then I started to realize
I was took, and then she'd be gone out of
town and I'd be watching it alone, and I was like,
oh no, I can't not begin to tell you the
amount of men that we meet anywhere, like at the
grocery store or on an airplane, and they always blame

(07:41):
the wives or the girlfriends or the partners, and I'm like,
you were all secretly hooked though, Like, oh, men love
the show just as much as women. You guys were
You get into the contestants, you know, Yeah, is that
what you call the people who aren't the bachelor Bachelorette?
The cast? Sorry, the cast get into their story and

(08:01):
then you're like, well, how's Michelle gonna find love? Like
I gotta you know what I mean, I gotta this
next storyline. That's how it hooks you. It always I
feel like it starts with the girl and then eventually
you're the one beating her to the couch with the snacks,
with the wine, whatever you have. Okay, I want to

(08:24):
ask you this, then, since you've been watching since Swan
Pablo season, since that time, have you had a favorite
boucher or Boucher ride, and then have you also had
like the one contestant that you still think about that
You're like, I wonder what they're doing now, did they
find love? What's going on in their lives? Okay, great question,
But I have to tell you this is I should

(08:45):
have said this right off the bat. I am so
bad with names on the show, like I know you guys,
because you were like, you know too for my name's
back and nice to meet you, Like I like, I
literally don't. I wrote down the content because I know
I was talking guys. I wrote down the contest. I

(09:06):
asked my wife. I was like, who's the guy that
like that? You know whatever? I have like different reminders
about names. I don't no one's name and like forget
them as I'm watching them. And my wife knows everyone
and follows everyone Instagram, and it's probably you know their
face and you know their intentions and then you also
know the red flax. Yes that's how that got with

(09:28):
zach Am. I my same, yes, yeah, you know that
is the one that I went like, I mean, I
probably shouldn't be saying this on your huge podcast, but uh,
that's the one I like, cry it again, I'm so embarrassed.
Did you bend each other broke up? I really thought
it was like like she kind of wouldn't open up

(09:49):
and then he like, you know, like it seemed like
they were like I was like, this is real right now,
and I guess it was, but yeah, broke up. We
were really sad about that. So what were your thoughts
on the part one of the finale tonight, Because I mean,
just for me, you know, and I've watched the show
for a while too, it was crazy to me. Yeah, okay,
so I'm looking at my notes Avan, Okay, hmm, you

(10:11):
got it. It seems like a great guy maybe is
gonna be the Bachelor. I don't know, you guys know
more than me, but I went like I thought he
just blew it, Like I I've tried to do that
thing where you're trying to be nice and say something
that's essentially not what the person wants to hear. And
I thought he should have maybe just from a guy's

(10:33):
point of view, he should have just committed to like
I couldn't be like she couldn't like get around it right.
Oh yeah, there was a lot of poor communication there.
What do you think? Okay, if you were him or
in his position, watching from a guy's perspective, what exactly
would you had would you have had him do differently?
Specific probably say the thing that he knows he is

(10:55):
going to get him kicked off? But was the truth right,
which is that he's not ready to be engaged? Seggar?
But here's okay, this is what I've always want to
ask you guys. Oh my god, I can't believe I'm okay,
all right, all right? Why not when you're in the
fantasy suite? I'm sure everyone you meet wants to know
what happens in the fancy But why don't you just
say like all the stuff then, like just say, look

(11:19):
like I'll propose you, but it's not going to be
a you know, real engagement. But then we'll get to
know each other and then like why does it have
to be so like, you know, you can say anything
that night, right, Okay, I'm gonna fire question right back
at you. How do you know that we don't talk
about that stuff because it's not on camera, because everyone's
so messed up about the proposal, and it's like, why
don't you just say, like, look, let's get engaged, but

(11:39):
it's not like, you know, we'll get like really engaged later.
But you know what I mean, I would say that, Okay,
So I would say my response to this is a
lot of times it's not necessarily about the physical ring
of it. It's the fact of like at this point
in your life, you going into relationships, the love that
you have found or tried to find, it was either

(11:59):
like you weren't enough or it didn't work out, or
that person couldn't commit. And so it's very much so
like coming into it. And for me, it was less
about the physical ring and the more about like, this
is taking a risk and are you willing to commit
to somebody. So it's more about like the commitment and
less about the like engagement proposal, proposal proposal, you know.

(12:19):
But in this scenario between Rachel and Avon, he did
say I want to leave here with you. I do
want to continue this with you. I do see a
life with you. I just don't know if it's like
the right time for that physical range the suits right
right well, and that's that's where I feel like I

(12:41):
feel like more so in this season and YouTube, please
like tell me if you agree or disagree with this
more so than ever. I feel like this season has
been so vague, like there's not a lot of context
behind the conversations, and it's very hard for the viewers
to understand. And maybe that's because I mean, I would
just have to chalk it up to the fact that

(13:01):
there are two leads and so many extra conversations happening.
But I feel like I've never seen a season where
there's been so much miscommunication between the contestants and the leads,
where like, yeah, well, it's hard to know because that's
what I'm saying that I agreed too, Becka. It's hard
to know if those conversations are just purely not happening

(13:22):
or if we're not seeing them because the time is
split between two people, right, because Rachel would say they
had that conversation and they were on the same page
about getting engaged until he talked to her family, and
he's saying, no, like I care about you, I'm falling
in love with you, I'm just not there yet. So
I would have to imagine, like, and that's where I
really want to have. Well, we're going to have Avan

(13:43):
on tonight, but I would love to have Rachel also
on again to be like what was actually said in
the Fantasy Suites, because I agree a kind of should
have been more just kind of picked a lane and
said like look, I'm not willing or whatever. But also
it's like I had some nightmares from when I was
a single when she was like I'm leaving here with
a proposal either, I was like, you know, likes more

(14:04):
important that the person is saying. Yeah. It seems it
seemed to me that Rachel was very zoned in on
just the fact of like wanting an engagement, not necessarily
what it would take to get there, Like that's she
was just I on the prize a woman like that.
Yeah yeah, but you know, Neelne does make some big

(14:25):
nice rings, so I don't blame her. I understand the appeal,
but and especially like I'm trying to put myself back
in her shoes. When you're the lead, it's so ingrained
in you of like you know, usually the outcome is
an engagement and and you're kind of put up on
this pedestal in a way of Becca You're thing at
the end, Oh my god. I mean I remember watching

(14:47):
SNL that weekend and it was I mean I was
like like America just sat there for twenty minutes, like
what's going on? That was a lot taking of nightmares?
Same yeah, I was like, what the hell's going on
to all went through that together? Right? Question about the
fantasy sweets a for you guys, Okay, you tell when
you're watching the show who's had sex and that, because

(15:09):
I'm always like are they being so vague about that?
Like just say like we had sex? We did. They're
all like kind of, but no one talks about why
are you also interested? Okay, we're talking about our feelings,
we're talking about finances, we're talking about our feelings. Okay.
It's not so much that like it's it's I think
it's just because everybody wants to pinpoint that, like that's
like the juicy thing you know for sure, and like

(15:32):
like you do you look at the guys, you guys
just and say like all right, this guy I want
to like try out physically and this guy like we'll
like talk more. I don't think you plan it. I
was not over here like right, like like you know
what parts of your relationship like where you're at and everything.

(15:53):
But I would say every lead is different. It's not
like I have like October. I don't have like a
clipboard here like m I think, yeah, I think you know.
I will say though, one of the best parts of
Bena on the show and Michelle maybe you can attest
this is finding out the actual behind the scenes from
like past seasons of what actually happened with other leads
and contestants, Like the shit that I learned about other

(16:15):
I'm like, oh, my hair should be so big with
all the secrets. But but like some people's stories are wild.
But I think everyone goes into it differently. I mean,
you definitely know like certain people you want to get
to open up more right a thing than the Bachelor
in that sense, because my wife's always like we've been
married long enough that she's like, yeah, that's the guy

(16:36):
you want to see what's going on? Like this guy
you could tell him this one. She was like, who's
the guy? Oh man, I'm so bad with the names.
Who's Zach Zack? Yeah, the guy that let's talk tonight.
There's gonna be more of a chat session. Let's lay
it out there, buddy. Well, okay, so I want to
ask you this. In tonight's episode, then obviously we saw
both Zac and even go home a bit early. What

(17:00):
what were your thoughts. Do you think it was a
bit premature that they were sent home earlier? Do you
kind of understand where Rachel was coming from. I feel
bad because I because I know, you know, being on two,
I know these people are all people and you start
like looking at them like their characters or something. Um.
But I thought like, if Zach was my friend, I'd
be like, hey, man, like, don't show your full hand

(17:23):
so fast, because it's kind of like, you know, it's
a it's a dance, you know. And I thought maybe
early on that movie date, like really early on, I
was like, leave something for later. Man. Oh, I thought
it was a done deal. I was shocked when he
actually went home. I was like, he's making it to
at least top two. He's there till the end. We
even had him on our podcast and I said that now,
I'm like, oh shit, foot in mouth. Becca go yeah, yeah,

(17:47):
Well they had already been broken up with at the time,
but of course, like he couldn't say anything, so I'm like, damn,
I really put my foot in my mouth. So what
are your predictions for the final finale? Part two? Next,
we're trying to eat into the trailers, which my wife does.
She like looks at the backgrounds and what clothes. I mean,
she's genius at it, Like what clothes people are wearing.

(18:08):
She's like, that's on the same day. But something leads
a little bit like your season back over, something went
on post because there's some other house or something, and
like I feel like even has a new hairstyle. Now,
oh yeah see that and yeah, so what do you
think happens? What do you think? You know? Is really

(18:32):
confident but and that can be really great in the
in the courtship phase, but as my wife has taught me,
it can be something you want to bring down a
little bit. Okay, I feel like your wife is somebody
who you wouldn't want to have in one of those
like um bachelorette what are they called the not the
like those fantasy leagues, because every time she's amazing. And

(18:53):
by the way, I should also give a shout out
to Caitlin McGhee, who is another super fan who plays
my sister on Home Economics. She's like, I don't know
if you saw we went before we even came on
the air, we did a If anyone's listening, go to YouTube.
It's like my favorite thing we shot it was like
a Bachelor pro. It's a promo where basically we're meeting
at a show and they're bringing us through like you know,

(19:14):
like they're putting us on Gray's Anatomy or they're putting
us on Dancing with the Stars, and we're like, this
isn't what our shows about. But then we shot a
very long like Bachelor spoof and we had so much fun.
I mean, first of all, that cast is like the
most fun group of people. I mean, Soshera was on SNL,
like you know, they really know what they're doing in
terms of spoofing stuff. But I mean, so she has

(19:35):
probably been on Bachelor sketches on Saturday Live, but like
you know, she like ran up and jumped into my arms.
We did that thing, like then we did like the
like me throwing the rose off the balcony like I
was picked off, and then Kaitlin did the meltdown like
they just had a camera didn't tell the camera guy
where she was going, so the camera guy looked like
one of the guys on the show. And I'm like,

(19:58):
I was like it was the best because then literally
the next day we started shooting the show it was
the best way to like, but she's a suit I
think Carl had never seen it, so they were trying
to describe to her what it was. But Kaitlin went
she did the perfect meltdown, like the getting down on
her knees and like I love. She kept saying. It's
the best line that she made up. It was like,
I'm just done, you know, like no, I'm just done.

(20:20):
Like we don't have those moments they say that's done.
It sounds like you nailed it all we're done, but
we all say we're done, but we never mean it.
I'm just done. I'm just done. I'm over it. Okay,
So that's the perfect say one because I do want
to ask you about home economics. This promo is incredible,
but give us some details around this show. Well, it's

(20:43):
the most fun I've ever had working. It's like, I mean,
I was just with them all today at work. And
it's the chemistry with the cast that you know a
lot like dating. You can't um like when I signed
on the show, you still don't know until you all
get together and then you know they're so good and
they're also just such good people and we just get
I just hope this job never ends. It's so much fun.

(21:06):
And uh, and this season, we we we started off
going to Disneyland. I mean it's like like like that's
our job. It's great. So we got to hang out
Disneyland for a week and we, uh, what happens? We
have a flashback to two thousand and nine, which is
really it seems like not a long time ago, but
it is really funny. And and we find out this

(21:27):
isn't a spoiler, I don't think, but we we find
out we have another sibling. It's about it's all about
siblings and this family find out we have a new
sibling who we were shooting with today and um, I
shouldn't say who it is yet, but it is. It's incredible.
It's like a very funny way how we find out
we have a sibling. And it's incredible, really fun. I
love this. Yeah, tell all of the listeners here where
like what night at airs? Obviously it's on ABC but

(21:49):
nighttime all of that. So it's on the twenty first,
So basically anyone who's listening is me watching The Bachelor
next Tuesday, right, So then you just watch that time
the next day on Wednesday and that's when we're on
on Wednesdays. I love it. I'm so excited that this
promo sounds incredible in the show sounds right up my alley.
Um So, one thing we know that Drew Barrymore had interviewed,

(22:15):
had you on this was incredible? I obviously have talked
about this too much. But when you have kids and
you only like have like two hours with your wife
at night or one hour, and you're watching this, you go,
I guess I am a fan now? And uh I
went on Drew Barrymore and they were like the producer
backstage like, just remember you're a Bachelor super fan. I
was like, well, I probably won't introduced myself like that,

(22:37):
but but he kept saying it. I didn't know why,
and uh it was, Oh my gosh, I'm telling him
so bad with names? Who was who Michelle used to
date Clayton? So look how no wait, oh my god,
he got sent home. But he's doing great now, he's

(23:00):
thriving now, thriving. Oh they're still together? Yeah, yes, yes,
interesting finale, but uh he right, that was these two girls, right,
that's the whole thing. That's They really brought him up
a lot this season. Super nice guy, but I didn't know.
I like kind of started the show and she's asking
me and I was like, yeah, I'm into it, and

(23:22):
she's asking me about him, and you know, I was
telling her my opinion was I thought he actually did
a good job. The night before that it aired and
I thought it was funny. And then uh, Jesse came
out and I was like, oh my god, like he
was like the surprise guest. And then they pulled up Clayton.
He came. He was like from La or something on side.
I went what I was like, wait, am I gonna

(23:45):
be the next Bachelor? Is that what this is? I
have to make a quick call to my wife, but
my wife for two months, Yeah, exactly, like I gotta
leave this shop that a long haul pass. But what
do you think? Do you think there's gonna be two
engagements with both women? Do you think there's gonna be
one or none? My prediction is zero engagements? Okay, But

(24:09):
I do think they came out great friends they did.
That is I would say Rachel and Gabby or the
couples yea, who was the guy who was like, um,
my last girlfriend was way hotter than her. Oh, at
the beginning, yeah, like the villainy Hayden love that guy.
Man definitely be the Bachelor. I was sitting there, like,

(24:34):
this guy is maybe the biggest villain I've seen on
the show. He's not just like you know, Chad or
one of those guys's like just like I'm gonna play
a TV villain now or whatever. Like he was like
I could tell he didn't know he was be filmed.
Did not like that he didn't show up to that, Yeah,
gotta you gotta show up if you And then I
kind of I just thought, I don't know whatever I

(24:57):
went to the I went to like boarding school. I
knew a couple of dudes like that. So I want
to know coming from somebody who because it's different from
Michelle and I because we've been through actual filming the show,
so it's a little bit different. But for somebody that
is just a fan of it watching it, do you
appreciate when people are that bluntly honest and like shit

(25:20):
that Hayden said? Or does it? Are you ever like
why is this person on the show? Like where are
you at? Because some people love it and some people
absolutely hate YEA guys like hating me or the equivalent
of like an American idol when someone comes in and
they're like, check out this song, and then they you're like,
how has no one told this person like this? Uck,
you're a grown man, like stop singing like this. I

(25:41):
was like, that's really good, like middle school. Like in
middle school, if I heard my son say like that
my last girlfriend isn't it's hotter than her? You go, hey, man,
that's not how you, you know, talk about people like that. Okay,
So to fer next Batchelor announcement is coming up soon.
Who do you think it should be? Oh? Great question? Um,

(26:05):
I actually did like Eaven. I know I've given him
a little bit of crap, but I think he seemed
like a great guy who just like I've been in
that position where you're like, I really don't want to
hurt this person's feelings, but I have something to say
that's the opposite of what they want to hear. And
I do think he really wanted to be with her. Oh.
The other person I should know is Jimmy Tacho, who
plays my younger brother on Home Economics. By the way,
he is in a relationship, but I think, um, he

(26:27):
would be a great bachelor. Nominating him and he's in
a relationship. Have you met that part? But let's say
it shouldn't ever fall apart, but if it should, I
think that guy would crush it. Hey, we've had guys
come on the show who have had girlfriends in the past,
so we're used to it. That's right. By the way,
what about Grandpa Jo have girlfriends? Yeah? Yeah, what are
your thoughts about Grandpa John? I think that guy needs

(26:50):
a total spin off just for him. Seems like the
coolest dude. Why have you not hosted a date yet?
I you know, my old pals Askton Mila did it,
and we just did a thing together and I was
talking to them. They're doing like a reboot of that
sevent show called that nineties show, so we're all in
it for us, and I actually asked them about that

(27:13):
because we're all, Look, we're all like, you know, we
were like kids together and now we're all at home
with kids and all watching the show. My real issue
is that my wife would um take it over, and
I am. I would love to see it. Honestly. I
would have joined and you know and joined them and

(27:34):
she would just become the lead right away. Yeah, I
love it all. Right, before we have to let you
go here. We're gonna jump into a game quick because,
like Mica said, we love our games. This one is
called um rapid Fire. You're super witty, okay, so like
it's all about speed, like you got you gotta give
it to us right away. Okay. So we're gonna ask
you a question and then your job is to far away.

(27:54):
So I'll start here. Becca. Are you an early riser
or a night owl? I'm definitely not an early riser,
but I'm learning to be. Now we have two, we
actually have one on the way. I am a forest
early riser and now I go to bed much earlier
than I used to. I love it. What is the

(28:16):
best stadium advice you've ever received? Um? I yes, I was.
To be honest, I was like going to propose to
my wife but hadn't told her obviously, and I was
kind of telling my mom. I mean I hadn't really
talked to anyone about it, and my mom was like,
I was like, yeah, maybe like in a year or so.

(28:38):
My mom was like, you should, you should do it soon.
So doing soon is what you're saying. Okay, we should
have her on the show to tell out of my
league and my wife was like, you might stand a
chance if you you know, you go soon? Do it soon?
I love it? Can that be our next Instagram? Do it?

(29:00):
By the way, I would say to Aman, you know,
act now or it soon? All right? There we go.
How do you like your pizza? Pineapple and hammer? Little combo? There? Okay?
What is your well you need to say it and
show it. Signature dance move. Okay, signature dance move. You

(29:23):
have to talk us through while you do it. I'm
pretty lame. I don't know if you guys could figure
this out, but I was kind of a loser in
high school. Um god, I don't really have one. They
just made us do a promo for ABC because our
premiere is on the twenty first. They had us all
dance to the twenty first of September. What was that song?

(29:44):
You know? Like, oh do you remember? Yeah? And they're
like you go first over like getting a circle and
start dancing, and I was like, I was really nervous.
But we actually not to promos. We did another promo
where they did face replacement, so digitally they took our
face off of us and put it on like great dancers.
And I would just encourage anyone to go to that

(30:06):
ad right now. And because I'm doing like backflips and stuff,
so okay, we're gonna give credit to you doing some backflips,
probably me pretending I'm ironically doing the running Man and
then actually doing the Running Man. Yeah. I was kind
of saying this little like robot action where you like
hit the arm and then you know, I like what
I'm seeing better. Thank you? Sorry with its dancing with

(30:31):
the stars. You want me next? Oh? Take it? Keep well,
keep going? What is this is? Like? I don't know
why this one's my favorite question? But what is your
favorite curse word? I heard you swear on this backup
you guys, Oh yeah we can curse, yes, yeah, um
probably fuck. But I am trying not to say it

(30:55):
in front of these kids we have on the show,
are ever present. I mean, they've now heard it from
every cast members so much. You know, you mess up
a line, Oh fuck you fuck, I'm so sorry. Fuck
I said it again, damn it to keep us popping out,
I know, And these kids are like, it's not shocking
us at this point, but we tried, we tried it.
We gotta have to swear jart work or something sweet. Okay,

(31:16):
what is your guilty pleasure besides yeah, I mean I
think this is we're knee deep in it here. Yeah.
Oh that's probably we have no time because of having kids,
so this is definitely it. Okay, I love that. Uh
go to karaoke song? Uh my Sharona, Oh man, if

(31:38):
you really want to pull out a win duet a
whole new world, Oh yeah, I want to hear you
hit the falsetto in that one. And then not only
do I hit those notes, but then I also point
out from the Magic Carpet Ride, you know, Oh, there's
the Sphinx, and there's when you do when you do

(31:59):
what this? Are you like duetting with somebody or you're
singing both pete both parts because I don't know why
I think you are you singing both parts? Definitely like
a jazzmine thing, and I'm doing no very in character
predating my wife. I want to like a like a
karaoke thing at someone's house, and that was the song

(32:22):
that put it over the top. I'm just picturing you.
If you know you're going to karaoke night, you actually
bring your own like little mini rug rolled up that
you just throw on a ladding of it. It's the
duet of it because I've also done time in your
life from dirty Dancing, which is another great like you know,
oh yeah, classic great duet. It is hard to lift
yourself up though, if you don't have somebody else with you. No, no,

(32:45):
I forced the girl to do it. Yeah. I was
gonna say. You also said you're not good at so
I don't know if i'd be running at. Okay, this
is going to be our last question for the game
because we've got to get you out of here because
I know you're a very busy man with your kiddos.
But what is the current screensaver on your phone? Oh well,

(33:07):
it's my kids, you know. I was gonna say, it's
going to be something good like that. Yeah, I love that. Okay, toever,
this was so much fun having you on. I'm glad
that you are. Well. It's gonna say a secret bauchlor fan,
but the secret is no more cats out of the bag. Seriously,
don't nice to meet you. My wife he's gonna kill
me that I got so much time with you and
I got to pick your brains. But our listen to

(33:29):
this episode. Tell her we say hi, and I really
after next week. I would love to chat with you
both and get your overall thoughts and everything that went down,
because it's going to be a wild ride, so I'm
just gonna worry it out. We watch it the way
most people watch sports. Where you we were just as
bad dating, you know what I mean, but you act
like a pro and you're you know, when you're watching
it Olympics and it's match or something, You're like, I,

(33:50):
I'm just forturing you on the couch, like throwing popcorn
at the screen or like screaming, yeah, well okay, let
us know your thoughts next week because I I can't
wait to know what everyone's going to be thinking. But Dover,
it was so much fun having you on and great
to meet you, and I can't wait home Economics Wednesday,
the day after the finale is when we premiere. We
go to Disneyland and it's be most fun. You will

(34:11):
see the cast having the most fun any cast has
ever had. Awesome the twenty first, everyone buckle up, Thank
you guys for let me hang than good to meet you.
How are you guys doing? Even me are great? How
the hell are you hey? How are you doing doing good?
Fresh off fresh off the TV, fresh off the stage.

(34:34):
Before we even get into this, I have to tell
you how bad we have been wanting you on the podcast.
I'm just gonna lay it all out there right now,
day one, since day one, but we were so excited.
I was like, we have to have him on. I
know he's going to be exhausted from this finale and
all that you had to do on stage. It's a lot,
but we are so happy we have you. I appreciate it.

(34:57):
I'm here, I'm ready to go. I love it. Okay,
First off, how are you doing really after all of that,
because that was a lot. Yeah, I um. The anticipation
aspect of it was the craziest part. Like I was
anticipating it all day and then it just you know,
goes for like ten minutes. So I'm good. It was
you know, I was nervous to see her again, you

(35:19):
know up there. I haven't seen her since that night,
you know. Yeah. So but yeah, got through it, and
now I'm here since we're jumping into it, I know
that like all these things happen right like you, like
you go through these emotions when it first happens, and
then you have this period of time where you stop
filming and then you're having that sync in you're processing it,

(35:41):
and then you start to think about things that you
want to say when you know that you're going to
see Rachel again. Do you feel like you're able to
say everything? Do you feel like you know what you
plan to say that's what came out, or like you know,
a lot of people black out or it goes so fast, right, Yeah,
it went really fast. You know, the questions that Jesse asked,

(36:02):
I tried to answer, you know, from what I was feeling,
you know at this time, kind of watching it back,
I tried to go back to some of those emotions,
some of those feelings, some of those thoughts I was
having and re expressed those to her. But I think
I got like what I wanted to off my chest hopefully.
You know. I definitely wasn't really all the way there

(36:23):
up there. I was kind of just like saying what
came to mind. So yeah, I think I got I
think I got everything I needed off. What was what
was more nerve wracking seeing Rachel for the first time
since your breakup, or knowing that this conversation was going
to have to be on live television in front of
millions of people. Um, I would say a little bit

(36:46):
of both. I would say seeing her for the first
time very extremely nerve wracking, and then yeah, of course,
knowing that you're live on television is I would say
it was probably fifty fifty. But I was also anticipating,
you know, getting up there, sitting next to her, seeing
her again, and I just wanted it to go well.
I wanted our interaction to go well. I wanted the
energy to be right. So do you feel like you

(37:07):
were able to get closure, Like, do you feel like
you got everything out of tonight that you wanted to
get out of tonight? Yeah. I think the conversation went well.
You know, we were able to kind of have a
little bit of a conversation up there. You know, I
was like, are you are you doing okay? You know,
I apologize for the way things would happen. She said,
I wish she the best, nothing but the best, that

(37:28):
kind of stuff. So I think the conversation went how
it was supposed to. I think we both said what
was needed to be said, and we can kind of,
you know, take things from there. Okay, even one thing
that stuck out to me, you know, because we're all
watching it back, and for I would say all of us,
this is the first time seeing your conversation with Rachel

(37:48):
towards the end, and one thing that stood out to
me at least, and I think to Rachel too because
she she brought it up to you specifically during that
breakup you you had said something about like being caught
up in this and I think for me and maybe
for Michelle, we can kind of understand a bit where

(38:10):
you were coming from when you said those words, because
we've been in your shoes and you know, we've been
contestants and also the lead. But to most of the viewers,
they haven't done this before, so they might not quite
understand what you meant when you said caught up. So
I would love to give you the chance to just
elaborate on that, to shed some light onto that, because
obviously Rachel was kind of caught off guard a bit

(38:31):
when when that was brought up. For sure, Yeah, I
mean I think in that moment that was probably not
the first choice of words I should have gone with.
But you know what I was trying to, you know,
explain to her is that you know, we were going
through all of these different you know, dates, and we
were having all these different conversations, and things were just
progressing so perfectly with us, and I feel like, you know,

(38:55):
me feeling ready, that me feeling like we were ready
together to go through forward with an engagement. I felt,
you know, maybe that was coming from a place of
being just kind of caught up in all everything. So
when I had you know, that adequate time to kind
of sit there, evaluate where I was at, evaluate where
our relationship was at m I unfortunately didn't get the

(39:16):
chance to talk to her before meeting her family, but
I just had some you know, some time to think
about it, and I had some kind of new emotions
and some new thoughts that came to how I was feeling,
and that's what I expressed to her family. And then
unfortunately I had to you know, talk to her after.
But I think, you know, once we had that conversation
on the couch in my room, after, I think something

(39:36):
started to really Resonnate. She started to understand where I
was coming from a little bit. Unfortunately, you know, she
still didn't see that being enough to you know, want
to move forward with me, so well I will. I mean,
I'm sure people are gonna you're gonna get all sides
of the gamut in people's thoughts and opinions after this.
That's just the nature of this beast. But I can

(39:58):
totally understand where you were coming from. It's it's a
lot like you separate yourself from your family and friends
and normalcy, and you put yourself in what is essentially
a bubble, and you it's easy to get swept up
in the lights and the cameras and the most beautiful, romantic,
extravagant dates like So that's why I was saying I

(40:19):
can kind of feel where you were coming from, and
that I just wanted you to be able to elaborate
a bit more. And I don't think honestly, And people
can fault me for saying this and have their own
thoughts too, but I don't fault you for saying what
you did. Obviously it did catch her off guard, but
I think it was very honest in what you were
feeling in that moment. Yeah, you know, I appreciate you
saying that I was just trying to do the best

(40:40):
that I could in you know, just letting everybody know
where I was at, and you know, it obviously would
have worked out better, probably for the both of us
if I would have gotten the chance to speak to
her first, because hearing it from her family from me
first was probably the most difficult part for her. If
she would have heard it from me first, then you know,
she could have made a decision on whether she wanted

(41:01):
me to meet her family or whatever the case may be.
So but I I just went in there. I just
have too much respect for people's family and for people's
feelings to to go in there and not tell them
where I was, where I was at in that moment.
So I just tried to do my best to tell
them where I was at, and you know, I had
to you know, of course communicate that to her after.
So it was it was cool. I think what's so

(41:22):
hard too, is that it's just being honest like that,
especially when you are in an environment where it's it
is structured to some extent of you know, being vulnerable,
and it really does challenge you to open up. But
as quickly as feelings can grow, you can also have
these uneasy pieces pop up, and it is hard that
you don't have like all of this access to that

(41:43):
person that you know, talking to and like going outside
the mold per se of you know, how to handle
those situations, and even like looking back on it, do
you do you have any regrets? Do you wish that
you would have been able to, you know, pull Rachel
aside or you know, regardless of what was supposed to happen,
to make sure that you have that conversation before even

(42:03):
walking into talking to her family, and just do you
feel like you would have still gotten the chance to
meet her family if that would have happened. Yeah, you know,
I think the biggest regret I do have is just
just not communicating with her before with any chance that
I have, Like you said, even that little moment before
walking in there, I could have pulled her aside and said, hey, listen,
I just wanted to sit down real quick, let you

(42:24):
know where I'm at before we do this. Are you
still going to want to go through with this if
I communicate this to you type of thing. So I
definitely do regret that, And then I told her out
there the same thing. But also just really not thinking
about what she wanted out of all of this was
something that I wasn't focusing enough on. You know, the
engagement aspect of it was very important to her. I

(42:46):
knew that was something that she wanted out of it,
and I wasn't kind of making that a priority when
I was thinking about myself, which was unfair to her
and unfair to us like together, you know what I mean.
So I'm curious about this because it was very apparent
in your last conversation with her just how much she
wanted that engagement right and up until that point, you know,

(43:08):
I kind of just always assumed like, yeah, I'm sure
that's coming, that's what she wants. You know, this is
kind of the name of the game here and why
people come on this show. But I didn't realize it
was like, you know, such a deal breaker for her.
And I don't even want to use that word, but
I'm going to hear, just for context, such a deal
breaker for her. So did you get that sense? And

(43:30):
obviously there's so much that you lived through filming that
we will never see so throughout the entire season, did
you feel like it was to that extent er were
you also kind of shocked in that moment of like, oh,
this is like she is one thousand and ten percent
in this, like that is what she came here for.
Or was it more of a shock to you in
that last conversation. Yeah, I think. You know, I tried

(43:53):
to stress in that last conversation. You know, I wanted
to focus on the fact that I wasn't giving up
on our relationship just because of how with the way
things happened, what she had explained to me. I wanted
to continue our relationship and move forward and not fixate
so much on the engagement aspect of it, Like, let's
talk about our connection. Are we there yet? Are you

(44:13):
there with me? Like if I were to show up
and propose, like, are you going to agree to do
that with me? Are we at that point in our relationship?
So I tried to in that conversation reiterate that to
her and not fixate so much on the engagement. So
that was tough. I you know, I definitely had a
moment there when we were conversating that because of the

(44:34):
engagement aspect that she was kind of just quitting on us,
she was giving up on us a little bit and
not really giving us a chance to maybe let's take
a day and think about it. Is can we move
forward from this? Is? Can we grow from this? Is
this something that you know that we could do together?
And you know that that was just a big part
of it, and I understand where she was coming from.
She it's not like she wasn't saying it from the beginning,

(44:55):
you know what I mean. It's not like she had
just said that. She was saying that from day one,
that that was thing that she wanted from this, and
I should have taken more accountability and more focus on that,
you know, when it came to, you know, communicating to
where I was at. I will say, though, I think
the biggest part in this process is such a large
learning curve, and it's like you always want to stay
true to yourself. And even though in this situation you

(45:19):
felt like it wasn't communicated perfectly like that first time,
even being somebody who was watching it, you did specifically
reiterate several times that I know that I can get there.
I just want to make sure that we take our
time to get there. So like that was very clear.
It wasn't like I'm just tossing you to the side.
You were very much did kind of give some sort

(45:42):
of it's not safe in it. It's not the correct word,
but yeah, you know, like just confirmation or just validation
of I want you, I just I want to take
our time Yeah, you know, I was fully confident that
if we would have continued on the trajectory that we
were on away from the show, in the real world, whatever,
whatever the words you want to use, is that we

(46:03):
would have gotten to that point. I had no doubt
in my mind there. We were on such a good path.
Everything that we were doing together, we kept growing and growing,
learning more about each other. It felt very natural, even
though a lot of the stuff that we did together
wasn't shown. But yeah, I felt like we could have
gotten to that point. And that's something that I was
trying to stress to her. And I think in that

(46:23):
moment she might have said, you know, she might have
felt like I was because I didn't want an engagement
at that specific time. She might have felt like I
was giving up on her, But that wasn't the case. Well,
I mean from both of you, you said the words
like I want to leave here with you, I want
to do this life with you. It's not like you
were like, I can't quite get there. Got a bounce.

(46:46):
And on the flip side too, when you were saying
these things, I don't think there was any love loss
like I think there was, and that's what's so hard
about certain breakups, especially in this environment, is there's still
so many what ifs of Like she even said you
were the perfect guy, Like it could have been completely
different had you just been like, yeah, I'm ready for this,

(47:06):
it's the and I don't want to go down that
rabbit hole. But watching it back tonight, she made the comment,
I think, you know, once you had already left separately,
where she was like, I saw him at the end
of this, like I saw the life together. And I'm
trying to think of like the exact words that she had,
but basically saying she saw you and her at the

(47:26):
end of that end of this journey at one point
towards the end, Yeah, she saw us being you know,
the end, Yeah, exactly. So what was what was it
like than hearing that back and watching that for the
first time tonight, I mean it was it was tough
because you know, you always the way things ended between us,
you always, you know, it's always the what if what

(47:48):
if I would have did this? What if I would
have said that? And hearing her say that, you know,
was a little bit of validation of knowing if maybe
I would have winned things a different way that you know,
we would have left together, we would have been in
relationship right now, which is tough to hear. But you know,
again going back to the engagement aspect of it, you know,
another thing is I wasn't going to drag her into

(48:09):
a proposal that I wasn't one invested in at that time.
I didn't think that was fair to her. So I
think that had a lot to do with it as well.
But that was definitely difficult to hear that at one point,
you know, she saw us as as the finish and
that she was thinking about, you know, moving forward outside
of all. Yeah, you know, this whole entire journey, you

(48:30):
just I mean, you learned so much even from when
you start versus tonight when you end, and if you know,
it doesn't necessarily end how you particularly picture it at
one time. But what would you say is the highlight
of your journey or what you even learn the most,
and then what your low light was? Whatever that is highlights?

(48:53):
It's like where do I get or you can just
do two positives if you want. I mean, I definitely
think one of the highlights, you know, going into this
whole experience, I was never the kind of person who
was like so quick to be like, hey, this is
how I feel, this is where I'm at, this is
something very personal about myself so early on. So I
think it taught me a lot about how important that

(49:15):
is when you're getting to know somebody and trying to
build a relationship with someone, because if you don't let
people know how you're feeling, you're not going to get anywhere,
you know what I mean. So I learned that through this.
We didn't have many low points. I mean, obviously that ending,
the ending to us was so challenging for me, even
the couple days in between after meeting her family and

(49:36):
anticipating that conversation. That last conversation we had was probably
my lowest point. I was upset with myself, I was
upset at the situation. I was down, I was stressing
about what I was going to say. So I think
that was definitely the lowest part of the whole The
whole experience for me was was that, well, now that

(49:59):
part has come to an end. I mean, the world
is your oyster at this point. There's so many things
in your future that I think you have to look
forward to, but I just want to know kind of
what's next for you. Are you still looking for love,
like where is your head and your heart at? Yeah,
you know, right now, obviously it was a lot getting

(50:20):
through this, getting through the ending. But yeah, I'm just
kind of, you know, living life right now, doing my
own thing, back to work. You know, I lived in
San Diego. There's a lot of people in San Diego
from from the fence. Though it's sad there's too many
of us many. That's wild though I didn't know that.
That's awesome. Okay, well, we'll definitely grab drinks. I will

(50:41):
send you do like wine. I do like one. Okay,
I have my wineline. I will send you some wine
if you want any. Um. I was on Twitter for
a little bit tonight, just you know, seeing what the
world had to say about this finale part one, and
I mean a lot of people were there supporting you,
and so I think, like, obviously we didn't see a
ton of you throughout the entire season until really this episode,

(51:02):
which is unfortunate. But I'm so glad that we were
able to finally have you on tonight. Yeah, I'm yeah,
I'm kind of glad that, you know, we got through it. Um,
But yeah, I really appreciate you guys saying that it
means a lot, So, I mean, we're good at aven fans,
don't worry. Even. It was so fun having you on.
Hopefully now you can move on from all of this

(51:22):
and start your next chapter. I mean, hopefully this isn't
the last week's team of you. There's always paradise and
you know, I'm gonna just start up there even for
about sure. Yeah, we'll see, we'll see. Um, yeah, you're
talking to you guys. I appreciate it. All right, Well
hang in there, go go celebrate now, go pop some

(51:43):
shampagoe have fun. Okay, Well, Michelle, a little two for
one action tonight with Tofur and Avan. I know that
was fun. That was really such different personalities, which I
like totally. I'm just so happy. I mean, I obviously
love of having just guests who are fans on. It's
so fun to pick their brain and just get another

(52:04):
point of view. But I also am so happy we
had Even because we have been wanting him since the beginning. Right,
here's somebody that caught our e since the beginning. No,
it was it was fun. Next week is going to
be Wildtown, So I'm so glad we're gonna actually be
together in studio recording the final episode of this season,

(52:28):
and I can't wait to be with you. I'm gonna
need to hold your hand and a glass of wine.
Probably the entire time. I was gonna say Bachelor Happy Hour,
like emphasis on the happy hour here next week because
we are going to have a drink in hand. That's
the only way we're getting I'm gonna be a little
too handsy with the drinks, but I feel like we're
gonna need it. Oh absolutely, I know. Make sure you.

(52:52):
I'm gonna make sure you wear your old of what
is they called the sweat block, bring my sweatblock. Oh
my god, I'm like sweating just thinking about it. Right,
my heart rate, heart rates are going to be up.
We know too much, Okay, but I'm telling everyone right now,
it's gonna be a wild final episode. Don't forgestitute it.
It's next Tuesday, not Monday. Don't get it twisted. There's

(53:14):
gonna be a lot that happens, and in the words
of Jesse Palmer, it might just be the most dramatic
season finale yet. So on that note, Michelle, I love you,
Thank you, and even bigger thank you to all of
our Bachelor Happy Hour listeners, and also to Boctober and
Aven for being here and everybody, don't forget that. You
can catch the new but final episode of The Bachelor

(53:37):
next Tuesday on ABC or Hulu, and make sure to
hit us up on social. You can follow us at
Bachelor Happy Hour on Instagram and from there you'll find
everything you need to know to follow us on Twitter
and TikTok on. Bachelor Happy Hour is available on Apple Podcasts,
Amazon Music, or wherever you listen, and you can always
listen ad free by subscribing to Wondering plus an Apple

(53:57):
Podcasts or the Wondering App. Thank you everyone, and see
you next week. See you next Yes, do this thing
just like you said, best oh Man. Yes, Yes,