October 4, 2024 • 31 mins
Today on “Happy Hour,” we have the one and only Charles L. from “The Golden Bachelorette”! You asked and we listened: The fan favorite is sitting down with us for an exclusive bonus episode, and we’re getting into all things Charles L. What’s he been up to? What words does he have for his Bachelor Nation fans? He tells us everything you want to know! We also discuss his journey with Joan and his healing experience as he moves through his grief along with his friends in the house. Tune in now to this very special episode and be sure to subscribe!
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Hey, everyone, welcome back to Better Happy Hour. I'm Joe
and I'm Serena, and we are here with a bonus episode.
You guys have asked for it and everyone's talking about
Please welcome Charles to the podcast. Charles, you, thank you,
thank you good.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
I'm terrific. Thanks, you know, everybody.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
How's everything going?
Speaker 2 (00:24):
So far so good? You know, as if you like
during the you know, filming time, you know, as as
you probably noticed that I've been traveling also, so I
do hear the news or feedback. Particularly, I want to
thank my fans, you know, I want to thank for
(00:46):
their love and support. As you know, some of the
information is coming from my daughter Sofia. So so far,
so good. I'm very happy, and so I'm very grateful
to everybody.
Speaker 1 (01:00):
Yeah, very very well deserved. Where you've been traveling? Where
are you currently right now?
Speaker 2 (01:07):
Okay? Good? You know, the trip was planned way way early,
you know, and as Sofia said, oh, Daddy, you really
should be here this time in the States rather than traveling.
But I thought, Sofia, you know, unfortunately or fortunately this
travel plan was kind of you know, scheduled way way early.
So first I went to London. You know, to attend
(01:30):
friends a dollar's wedding, so you have to have some
kind of British accent, you know.
Speaker 1 (01:37):
When I'm there, we were we were actually we were
actually just in London. We just got back.
Speaker 3 (01:42):
Ye were nice.
Speaker 1 (01:43):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
So when I was in London, you know, I also
sneak out a few hours here and there and visited
Buckingham and I observe something. So I did make some comments.
I don't know, maybe some fans already saw my comments
and they might join me, you know, to to help
a little bit, to clean up. You know, I don't
(02:06):
it's appropriate, but that's my personality, you know, I try
to do something that I can.
Speaker 1 (02:13):
Yeah, yeah, that's good.
Speaker 3 (02:15):
So just to clarify, you were cleaning up Buckingham Palace.
Speaker 2 (02:19):
Oh not yet, No, no, you think they should.
Speaker 1 (02:23):
You thought it was journey.
Speaker 2 (02:24):
Yeah, it's a kind of idea. You know, I'm pretty
you know, clean here and there. So this is what
I saw, and this is the kind of idea. And
I think there are quite a few echoes from my fans.
You know. It's a good thing note and a good suggestion.
So if I be there next time, of course, I
have to ask for permission. First, you know, as you know,
(02:46):
you know, the police may arrest me for whatever reason,
you know, So that's that's the first trip there. Yeah,
do you have something? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (02:56):
Do you have Do you have a favorite a favorite
place in the world that you have traveled to?
Speaker 2 (03:02):
Well, actually, honestly everywhere, you know when I travel, I
love seems like, you know, all the places that I
go to. But my favorite place it has to be
something to do with the water, anything river or water.
It's kind of my favorite area. So in London, the Paris,
(03:23):
you know, when I see the rivers there, I'm always excited.
Speaker 1 (03:27):
Got it? And then where where are you podcasting from
right now?
Speaker 2 (03:31):
Oh? And now I'm in China near Shanghai. Okay, yeah,
I'm you know, visiting my relatives, friends, you know, a classmates, teachers,
you know, and also do some side scene. But of course,
you know, one major party is really really enjoy my
childhood food?
Speaker 3 (03:52):
And what's your favorite food from your childhood fish?
Speaker 1 (03:56):
Fish? Yeah. How how old were you when you came
to the States?
Speaker 2 (04:03):
Somewhere around the twenty six okay, yes, around twenty six
years old. Yeah, I mean I was very young, you
know at that time.
Speaker 1 (04:12):
And what where did you where'd you come? What state?
Speaker 2 (04:16):
The first? The city? Well, besides I went to the States,
I also went to other countries briefly. But anyway, I
went to Boston first, Okay, and I love it. It's a
gorgeous as you know, Harvard and mi T even though
you know, I'm not qualified to attend those kind of colleges.
Speaker 1 (04:35):
But how many people Not many people are, Charles, Not
many people are.
Speaker 3 (04:40):
So did you come to the States for work purposes?
Speaker 2 (04:44):
No? I came to the States as a graduate student. Okay,
study and yeah, go ahead there.
Speaker 3 (04:52):
And then what do you do for work? Now?
Speaker 2 (04:55):
Well, actually, now I'm retired, but I kind of switched,
you know, a career. Before I retired, I was in
pharmaceutical companies, you know, research new medicine, you know, analyzed data,
so on and so forth.
Speaker 1 (05:10):
Yeah, oh that's what you did.
Speaker 2 (05:14):
That I made a living.
Speaker 1 (05:16):
Okay, do you like it? Oh?
Speaker 2 (05:18):
Yeah, yeah, I really enjoyed it, as you probably can
tell now my personality. You know, I love people, and
luckily people love me, so I really enjoyed it. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (05:32):
Okay, So let's talk about how you got on a
show like The Golden Bachelorette.
Speaker 2 (05:40):
It's a kind of accident in a sense. You know,
a few months ago, when Sophia and my daughter, you know,
and paid a visit to my hometown here, you know,
in Marvin, and I think it probably two days before
she was leaving, and we will looking some seafood in
(06:01):
the kitchen, and while we were eating and she said, Dad,
you know, I show you some program which is you know,
Golden Bachelor last year from last year. And she asked me,
did you know about it or here? But I said, Sophia, barely,
you know, honestly, you know, I have to admit, you know,
I didn't watch Golden Bachelor before, you know, for the
(06:23):
younger or senior age groups. So she showed me. Then
the next day she continued show me some episode, explained,
discuss Then suddenly she said, Dad, you should apply for
this program. I said, what she said, You'll be fine.
But also I said, you know, I mean even during
(06:45):
the application process, I doubt you know, I'll be enrolled
or accept she said, you never know, you know, just
have a try. So for whatever reason this time, I
made a decision very quickly. I said sure, so so
so we went online and basically, you know, we we
(07:06):
look at the application, and then we typed, you know,
and pretty fast in English, sent the application in cas what. No,
I can't. I can't remember exactly. The next morning or
in two days, I received phone call and that game
start rolling.
Speaker 1 (07:24):
Yeah, yeah, that's that's when it that's when it goes quick.
Before you, before you applied for the show, were you
dating at all? Was was there a dating life?
Speaker 2 (07:34):
No? No, yeah, probably heard. I don't know how many
episodes so far have been shown on TV, as you know,
I'm away, you know, I assume it's three episodes, and
probably got some of the stories for the show. Yeah, yeah,
it's unfortunately, you know, something happened to me and my
(07:55):
family so quickly and so sadly. Yeah. And later on
as you the COVID nineteen situation, so no, yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:05):
And then did you feel ready to start dating when
you decided to go on the Golden Bachelorette.
Speaker 2 (08:16):
I was thinking of that, but still not totally ready.
Speaker 1 (08:19):
Yeah that's okay.
Speaker 3 (08:21):
Yeah, Well you have had such a positive response from
people watching. How was your experience when you were there?
Were you excited? Were you attracted to Joan? What was
it like for you?
Speaker 2 (08:36):
Well? Yeah, first of all, I would say from the
very beginning. I would use the word a kind of
a surprise, a surprise that I say that because I
was accepted. I think probably compared with some of my
cast members, maybe I was not the most nervous person
(08:58):
laid on Ireland. You know, I would was a little
bit nervous, but as we opened up our conversation, I became,
you know, easier and easier. So so it was kind
of a little bit of nervous at the beginning, But
when the conversation started and we continued, and I realized
(09:21):
John John is such a you know, nice sweet lady,
and it was very easy to communicate, and obviously, you know,
she understood quote unquote my English very well. So the
conversation went on pretty pretty smooth.
Speaker 1 (09:38):
Yeah, So what was it like getting into the house
after you meet Jown and realizing that you are about
to live with twenty other guys.
Speaker 2 (09:59):
First of all, the first impression of the mansion was great.
You know, it was much bigger than I thought, because
before the ban I heard there's a kind of mansion.
But when I entered, it's a kind of feeling wow,
as you know. Besides, we were in the first early
groups to enter into the mansion, So there were not
(10:21):
many people there, and actually one thing really caught my
eyes first is the fireplace and the kitchen. And the
kitchen really you know. So then because there were not
many guys, you know, we say hi and we spoke
a little bit. Then I gradually shipped into the kitchen
and I say, wow, Then that's the you know a
(10:43):
lot of stuff that I kind of barely experienced before.
It's a huge, huge, you know, cooking area.
Speaker 1 (10:50):
Yeah, do you cook? Mm hmm? What what's your what's
your signature dish?
Speaker 2 (10:58):
I would say, you know, Jue, next time when you
come to my house, I will entertain you with a fish.
Speaker 1 (11:06):
Okay, what kind of fish?
Speaker 2 (11:08):
Fish? Yeah? I mean I can cook a many many,
many types of food, you know, many dishes, and I'm
not bragging. With that kind of kitchen in the mansion,
I can prepare properly eighteen dishes within three hours.
Speaker 1 (11:23):
Oh got.
Speaker 2 (11:26):
I mean yeah, with with a little bit of help
from one aid, you know, like a mark or somebody else.
Speaker 3 (11:33):
Yeah, you have to drink Sophia to be your sou chef,
right right, So.
Speaker 1 (11:38):
Out of all the guys, who are you closest with.
Speaker 2 (11:45):
This is this is a very very difficult question to answer.
Why mathematically, I think that they are pretty very equal.
I would if I would say, I would start with
a few eleman that I met, you know, the first day,
Grag for example, Dan, and then of course my roommates,
(12:08):
you know, a guy, uh, Gary and Michael and Chuck. Yeah,
I think yeah, And as you know, they care about me,
and I'm friendly with everybody, So I would say all
of them, yeah, including Jung.
Speaker 1 (12:28):
Was there was there anyone that you didn't like?
Speaker 2 (12:30):
Nope?
Speaker 1 (12:31):
Okay, what was what was Charles? What was happening with you?
What was happening with you? And Gary? You guys went
to a convenience store? What were you buying?
Speaker 2 (12:46):
Oh? Yeah, it's a I think it's probably it's an idea,
you know, coming out from us. And as you heard
from the stories, people snow as people get tired and
people cannot sleep well, so on and so forth. So
so it's a kind of idea. Well, we ask if
(13:07):
there's any you know, a local drug store that we
can purchase something so we can help. So then you know,
we went to a local store and we look around
and find something very nice. So we got them and
brought them back to the guys who who are grateful
to us and very happy to see these items on
(13:28):
the table.
Speaker 3 (13:29):
And did it help with the storing and the sleeping.
Speaker 2 (13:33):
I didn't test, but I think that those items will
grab us so quickly. So that sent you a message.
Speaker 1 (13:41):
Yeah, somebody wanted them. So you you One of the
scenes that we saw is you took you took a
top bunk because you were in better shape than most
of these guys. What uh, what's your secret?
Speaker 2 (13:55):
Well, you know, in five of us gathered in the
room and we had two bunk beds and one flat bed.
So easily, you know, we have to you know, assign
who to what. So first question we ask our age
so and then realize, I, I'm the oldest one. But
(14:18):
when I look around, you know, I hate to say
shape wise, hide twice some one so forth. So I volunteered,
you know, to be on the bank bet on the
second level. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (14:31):
Do you do you exercise?
Speaker 2 (14:33):
M I go to the gym, you know about four
times a week.
Speaker 1 (14:37):
That's good. That's good. And then how about what's your diet?
Look like.
Speaker 2 (14:42):
I'm not a scientist in sense, but I do read,
I listen to you know, a lectures. Yeah, and plus
along with my common sense, and I try to avoid,
you know, a meet as much as I can, and
I try to you know, eat as much vegetables or fruits,
(15:04):
but with with only limited amount each time. So I
want to make sure you know I'm in good fit.
Speaker 1 (15:12):
Yeah, got it. Let's pivot a little. Let's pivot a
little to the show. We see you have a pretty heartfelt,
serious conversation with guy about the passing of your wife.
Can you just kind of talk us through that a
little bit?
Speaker 2 (15:27):
Yes, And as I explained at the very beginning that
the standards just happened so quickly. I mean, that is,
my wife literally a fell from my shoulder. It was sad,
and I didn't anticipate, anticipate at all it would be
that severe, you know, at that time. But anyway, once
(15:52):
that happened, and when the doctor told me, you know
that the sad is the story on the earth, you know,
I could take it. And I still didn't believe at
the beginning. But then later on, and as I was
kind of feeling a little bit better, I tried to
recall what happened, the questions I had and the answers
(16:15):
I was looking for and obviously other parts. Probably I
got my answers, except the blood from her mouth that
you know, made me very sad. I couldn't figure out
so until you know. I one day I sat down
with guy who is a year doctor, and he heard
(16:36):
my story again and I asked his question and ask Guy,
what really which is coming from so based on my information,
Guy analyzed and he said, probably it's a bite from her,
you know ton. Unfortunately, that you know the bloodin I
(16:57):
was very sad, but at the same time I was
relieved because that was the answer I was searching for
for the last few years.
Speaker 1 (17:06):
Do you think after having that conversation and maybe getting
that clarity from guy, you were maybe a little more
ready to start taking dating more serious.
Speaker 2 (17:21):
I tend to agree with you, Joe, you know, because
once you get answer and you relieved. As a Probably
in the show I mentioned, you know, if my wife
or alive or what she saw what I'm doing, she
might say, you know, Charles, you need to move on.
You know that that kind of message, you know, So yeah, yes,
(17:44):
I would agree with you, Joe, Yes kind of you know,
tend to be readier than before.
Speaker 1 (17:51):
If your wife, if your wife could give you advice
when it comes to dating. What do you think she
would tell you if she was watching the show.
Speaker 2 (18:00):
Right now, she would tell me always, you know, Charles,
the first character you should look for is the intelligence,
and the second one that's sweetness.
Speaker 1 (18:13):
That's good.
Speaker 2 (18:13):
So so these are the kind of two characters I
would look for, you know.
Speaker 3 (18:20):
Yeah, what are your friends and your family that are watching.
What are they saying about the show? What do they
think about everything?
Speaker 2 (18:28):
Well, again, you know, since I'm traveling, you know, not
like other cast members in the back in the States.
You know, I don't watch with them, but I would
anticipate there are lots of surprises to them, you know,
in the episodes. But at the same time, you know,
particularly my daughters and my family members, they want to
(18:51):
see a happy Charles, you know, like in the old days. Yeah,
I didn't have bothered them in the last few years
as well. You know, they are worried about me, and
as you know, you know, I'm pretty cheerful person in
the old days, if I can say, yeah, otherwise, so
they wanted to see me the real chance again. So
(19:12):
the program, I think now they would say, you know,
it's a good decision. You know, really really it's worth it,
and probably they are also grateful to what all the producers,
everybody involved, you know, that helped me.
Speaker 1 (19:27):
Yeah, do you Yeah, I was gonna ask do you
feel do you feel happier now?
Speaker 2 (19:32):
Oh yeah, yeah, if I can say, I feel my
body is a little bit lighter than before in a sense.
Speaker 1 (19:43):
Yeah, that makes sense. We watched you play a little
kickball and you had a lot of fun doing that.
Was that the first time you played kickball?
Speaker 2 (19:58):
Yeah? Yeah. You know, if I describe this show is
it's four of surprises for me, you know, so the
kickerboy is another big surprise, you know, and also the kickboard.
And there's another terminology you mentioned is baseball, you know,
the kickboard baseball at the beginning, So when the when
(20:19):
the our bus brought us over there, I said, what
are we doing here? Then some guys maybe this, maybe that.
Then we saw some coaches, so so the kick ball started.
And then as you know, as the time when I
went by, you know, we have to divide into two teams,
and I kind of guessed the other team was very
(20:42):
delighted that I'm in the other team. Why because I
didn't have any knowledge experience whatever. So they were sure
that they're going to win.
Speaker 1 (20:55):
And then and then who won? You guys won, right.
Speaker 2 (20:59):
Of course the team with Charles l.
Speaker 3 (21:02):
Of course, Charles elst why.
Speaker 2 (21:06):
Now again it's a surprise, but also Luck and the
coach and team members, you know, coach me a little bit,
you know, before the game, and they show the diagram
and explained to me, Charles, what are the rules here
and also what I should do. Basically, rather than they
tell me, Charles what you shouldn't do, they keep telling
(21:27):
you do what we are told and then go on
and this exactly. I don't know how the TV was
showing in the real but I think at the end
I might tell myself probably Charles was the fittest person
on the field that day.
Speaker 1 (21:46):
I think you were. I think you were, Charles. I
believe that. Do you are? You? Do you have a
favorite sport?
Speaker 2 (21:53):
Not necessary? You know, in college, I'm not very strong
with sports. But on the other hand, I love all
kinds of sports, so I play around anything. And these days, actually,
you know, the pickable is my kind of favorite sports.
Speaker 1 (22:09):
Now nice, Yeah, Pickleball's fun. I enjoyed playing it.
Speaker 3 (22:13):
We saw you on another fun group day, which was
a little earlier in the season, which was the prom date.
Speaker 1 (22:20):
How did that go for you?
Speaker 2 (22:22):
Oh, that's I'm glad you mentioned this, you know, Serena,
it's it's a it's a surprise. As you know, historically
I never had a chance to go to prom, and
I didn't know much about the prompt per se, you know,
until you know I was involved. Sure, you know, my
(22:43):
daughters were involved prompt, but as a kind of a
general concept, sometimes they are involved, you know, me to
do this, do that. But I never went into the
real prompt so until that day and they brought me
and asked for what is as you know, actually you
know that morning when we assigned into a group date
(23:05):
and the details about the prom, and I was, you know,
asked to pick the suit first, you know, at the
very beginning, you know, after the announcement, and for whatever
reason that the color you know that I saw it
seems like in a match to my style. So I
picked that suit and then other ties and vot tax
(23:30):
something like that. You know. It turned out to be
very very nice.
Speaker 1 (23:35):
Yeah, And then overall, how how is your relationship with Joan?
Do you is there a spark there?
Speaker 2 (23:44):
Yeah? Then it was actually the first date, and of course,
you know, we start in a limo. You know, we
had a champagne, you know, I think it also sat sounds,
you know, on the way to the stadium and wait, wait,
you see I played games with Joan and I danced
(24:05):
with young and other people. We had conversations, and I
think later on we had a very atlantic conversations and
all distance and narrowed, and it began to you know,
I feel about her, and also she you know, noticed
that Charles probably the way you know, I kind of
(24:28):
behaved or acted, she approved it, I can tell. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:34):
That's good, that's good. Were there any from your observation?
Were there any other guys that you thought maybe had
a really strong connection with Joan that they know, not
that date, not that day, but how about how about overall.
Speaker 2 (24:51):
You mean later on?
Speaker 1 (24:52):
Yeah, I just just I would say, just yeah, like
where we're at in the season, your opinion, like who
has a really strong connection with John Good?
Speaker 2 (25:03):
You know, talking about opinion, there's a kind of circulation
around it, you know, as we know, as you know,
we discussed a lot. So I kind of joked with
the guys, which they believe, they said, I said, I
have the data.
Speaker 1 (25:18):
Hm.
Speaker 2 (25:19):
So, so that became a kind of, you know, a
popular phrase. So each time when they are puzzled, see
Charles has the data, let's go and ask him. So
I did analyze the first thing, you know, I thought,
who has more roses? And who is more aggressive? You know?
So I sensed it.
Speaker 1 (25:41):
Yeah, so who fit that equation?
Speaker 2 (25:44):
I can't tell you at this moment. I think.
Speaker 3 (25:48):
You can't spoil it was was Kim in your room?
Speaker 2 (25:53):
Nope?
Speaker 3 (25:54):
Do you remember Kim's Mansion Men's song by any chance?
We just saw it on the last episod.
Speaker 2 (26:00):
Oh yeah. And he sound very well. Actually, he impressed
me the first night, you know, I said, wow, we
have a navy officer here, and we talked and he's
he's very elegant, you know, he talks well and he
knows a lot, you know, I mean besides his career
(26:22):
as a navy I think a captain, you know, in
a sense. And I get along very well with him
as well. And the sounds also touched me. I think
he's saying, not only the one on the TV. He's
said the first night, you know, we met in the mansion.
So it's a great guy. In the late time also
(26:44):
heard about his own story as well. You know, he
has said the story along with him unfortunately.
Speaker 3 (26:51):
Yeah, what would be your advice to people that have
lost their spouses and are looking for again.
Speaker 2 (27:01):
I would say, you know, it's it's it's unfortunate, it's
very sad, and we have to tell ourselves, you know,
we have to admit that. That's the very very tough
first action I would use. You have to admit. Then second,
you know, be involved, try to be active, you know,
(27:23):
don't don't sit in your room or your library. Life
will make more miserable. You have to reach out and
if somebody you feel like, you know it's comfortable, just
say something. You know, you know, people say it was
a child, see why it looks so sad today. Then
you can open it up. Like one day I was
in the other gym that I met my with my
(27:46):
you know ex you know, colleague, and she was kind
of shocked, and then I began to open it up
and I told her story and she was very very sad.
So that's the sacond. And you know you have the third.
You know, if you're lucky as myself, you know, when
(28:06):
your kids kind of you know, support you and try
to guide you, in a sense, to into the new
direction of your new life. That would be you know,
it's the time you should have moved on.
Speaker 1 (28:18):
I think that's yeah, I think that's good advice. Do
you want to play a quick game? We're gonna play
a game with you.
Speaker 2 (28:25):
I beg your pardon, Joe, you want to you want.
Speaker 1 (28:27):
To play a game, We're gonna play a quick game.
Get to know a little about it.
Speaker 2 (28:32):
Pick a ball is a one off game? Or I
love to play chess.
Speaker 1 (28:35):
No, we're gonna play a game right now, now, yeah,
right now. I'm gonna just I'm gonna ask you. I'm
gonna ask you a bunch of questions and it's about
you and the first thing that comes to your head. Okay, sure,
all right, it's rapid fire, so you don't have to
overthink them. Okay, sure, all right. This is get to
know Charles favorite food or cuisine fish, yah, favorite place you.
Speaker 2 (29:01):
Visited, any any Rivers related.
Speaker 1 (29:06):
Favorite thing about being a parent, m reading, favorite Britney
Spears song.
Speaker 2 (29:16):
That might be tough, but as I mentioned, you know,
I listened to all kinds of songs. But I'm not
a kind of artist. So any something nice with I listen.
Speaker 1 (29:27):
Yeah, favorite way to unwind after a long day.
Speaker 2 (29:32):
Relax.
Speaker 1 (29:34):
What's the most adventurous thing you've ever done?
Speaker 2 (29:38):
Call me into some very high mountain?
Speaker 1 (29:41):
Oh? I like that? What mountain?
Speaker 2 (29:44):
And what they call it? A yellow mountain in China?
Speaker 1 (29:48):
Okay? Wow? What was the elevation on that?
Speaker 2 (29:52):
I don't know exactly, but pretty high?
Speaker 1 (29:55):
Okay, Go to drink at a bar.
Speaker 2 (30:01):
For me, I would grab a beer. May disappoint you beer, No, no, no,
wrong with that.
Speaker 1 (30:07):
If you could have one superpower, what would it be?
Speaker 2 (30:12):
Boy finance?
Speaker 1 (30:16):
I like that? Me too? Me too, Charles, me too.
What's one thing you would tell your younger.
Speaker 2 (30:21):
Self caring about yourself and others?
Speaker 1 (30:28):
And if you could sum up Jones season of The
Golden Bachelorette in one word, what would it be?
Speaker 2 (30:37):
Spectactular? Wow?
Speaker 1 (30:39):
I love that. I like that. I like that.
Speaker 3 (30:41):
Okay, Charles, Well, it's been such a pleasure having you
on to chat with us today. Thank you so much
for taking the time. But before you go, could you
close out this episode with a few bars from the
Mansion Men song if you remember it?
Speaker 2 (30:57):
Sure you know the Kam's fame fame of science, like
we are the mentionment and someone and so forth. You
know these sound way better than myself. Yeah, but we'll
got the gist. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (31:11):
Well, Charles, thank you so much. We really appreciate you
taking the time. And to all our listeners, thank you
guys so much for tuning in to Better Happy Hour.
We'll have exclusive interviews and recaps coming for you every week.
Speaker 3 (31:23):
Thanks for listening. Don't forget to subscribe. Bye.
Hey, everyone, welcome back to Better Happy Hour. I'm Joe
and I'm Serena, and we are here with a bonus episode.
You guys have asked for it and everyone's talking about
Please welcome Charles to the podcast. Charles, you, thank you,
thank you good.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
I'm terrific. Thanks, you know, everybody.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
How's everything going?
Speaker 2 (00:24):
So far so good? You know, as if you like
during the you know, filming time, you know, as as
you probably noticed that I've been traveling also, so I
do hear the news or feedback. Particularly, I want to
thank my fans, you know, I want to thank for
(00:46):
their love and support. As you know, some of the
information is coming from my daughter Sofia. So so far,
so good. I'm very happy, and so I'm very grateful
to everybody.
Speaker 1 (01:00):
Yeah, very very well deserved. Where you've been traveling? Where
are you currently right now?
Speaker 2 (01:07):
Okay? Good? You know, the trip was planned way way early,
you know, and as Sofia said, oh, Daddy, you really
should be here this time in the States rather than traveling.
But I thought, Sofia, you know, unfortunately or fortunately this
travel plan was kind of you know, scheduled way way early.
So first I went to London. You know, to attend
(01:30):
friends a dollar's wedding, so you have to have some
kind of British accent, you know.
Speaker 1 (01:37):
When I'm there, we were we were actually we were
actually just in London. We just got back.
Speaker 3 (01:42):
Ye were nice.
Speaker 1 (01:43):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
So when I was in London, you know, I also
sneak out a few hours here and there and visited
Buckingham and I observe something. So I did make some comments.
I don't know, maybe some fans already saw my comments
and they might join me, you know, to to help
a little bit, to clean up. You know, I don't
(02:06):
it's appropriate, but that's my personality, you know, I try
to do something that I can.
Speaker 1 (02:13):
Yeah, yeah, that's good.
Speaker 3 (02:15):
So just to clarify, you were cleaning up Buckingham Palace.
Speaker 2 (02:19):
Oh not yet, No, no, you think they should.
Speaker 1 (02:23):
You thought it was journey.
Speaker 2 (02:24):
Yeah, it's a kind of idea. You know, I'm pretty
you know, clean here and there. So this is what
I saw, and this is the kind of idea. And
I think there are quite a few echoes from my fans.
You know. It's a good thing note and a good suggestion.
So if I be there next time, of course, I
have to ask for permission. First, you know, as you know,
(02:46):
you know, the police may arrest me for whatever reason,
you know, So that's that's the first trip there. Yeah,
do you have something? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (02:56):
Do you have Do you have a favorite a favorite
place in the world that you have traveled to?
Speaker 2 (03:02):
Well, actually, honestly everywhere, you know when I travel, I
love seems like, you know, all the places that I
go to. But my favorite place it has to be
something to do with the water, anything river or water.
It's kind of my favorite area. So in London, the Paris,
(03:23):
you know, when I see the rivers there, I'm always excited.
Speaker 1 (03:27):
Got it? And then where where are you podcasting from
right now?
Speaker 2 (03:31):
Oh? And now I'm in China near Shanghai. Okay, yeah,
I'm you know, visiting my relatives, friends, you know, a classmates, teachers,
you know, and also do some side scene. But of course,
you know, one major party is really really enjoy my
childhood food?
Speaker 3 (03:52):
And what's your favorite food from your childhood fish?
Speaker 1 (03:56):
Fish? Yeah. How how old were you when you came
to the States?
Speaker 2 (04:03):
Somewhere around the twenty six okay, yes, around twenty six
years old. Yeah, I mean I was very young, you
know at that time.
Speaker 1 (04:12):
And what where did you where'd you come? What state?
Speaker 2 (04:16):
The first? The city? Well, besides I went to the States,
I also went to other countries briefly. But anyway, I
went to Boston first, Okay, and I love it. It's a
gorgeous as you know, Harvard and mi T even though
you know, I'm not qualified to attend those kind of colleges.
Speaker 1 (04:35):
But how many people Not many people are, Charles, Not
many people are.
Speaker 3 (04:40):
So did you come to the States for work purposes?
Speaker 2 (04:44):
No? I came to the States as a graduate student. Okay,
study and yeah, go ahead there.
Speaker 3 (04:52):
And then what do you do for work? Now?
Speaker 2 (04:55):
Well, actually, now I'm retired, but I kind of switched,
you know, a career. Before I retired, I was in
pharmaceutical companies, you know, research new medicine, you know, analyzed data,
so on and so forth.
Speaker 1 (05:10):
Yeah, oh that's what you did.
Speaker 2 (05:14):
That I made a living.
Speaker 1 (05:16):
Okay, do you like it? Oh?
Speaker 2 (05:18):
Yeah, yeah, I really enjoyed it, as you probably can
tell now my personality. You know, I love people, and
luckily people love me, so I really enjoyed it. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (05:32):
Okay, So let's talk about how you got on a
show like The Golden Bachelorette.
Speaker 2 (05:40):
It's a kind of accident in a sense. You know,
a few months ago, when Sophia and my daughter, you know,
and paid a visit to my hometown here, you know,
in Marvin, and I think it probably two days before
she was leaving, and we will looking some seafood in
(06:01):
the kitchen, and while we were eating and she said, Dad,
you know, I show you some program which is you know,
Golden Bachelor last year from last year. And she asked me,
did you know about it or here? But I said, Sophia, barely,
you know, honestly, you know, I have to admit, you know,
I didn't watch Golden Bachelor before, you know, for the
(06:23):
younger or senior age groups. So she showed me. Then
the next day she continued show me some episode, explained,
discuss Then suddenly she said, Dad, you should apply for
this program. I said, what she said, You'll be fine.
But also I said, you know, I mean even during
(06:45):
the application process, I doubt you know, I'll be enrolled
or accept she said, you never know, you know, just
have a try. So for whatever reason this time, I
made a decision very quickly. I said sure, so so
so we went online and basically, you know, we we
(07:06):
look at the application, and then we typed, you know,
and pretty fast in English, sent the application in cas what. No,
I can't. I can't remember exactly. The next morning or
in two days, I received phone call and that game
start rolling.
Speaker 1 (07:24):
Yeah, yeah, that's that's when it that's when it goes quick.
Before you, before you applied for the show, were you
dating at all? Was was there a dating life?
Speaker 2 (07:34):
No? No, yeah, probably heard. I don't know how many
episodes so far have been shown on TV, as you know,
I'm away, you know, I assume it's three episodes, and
probably got some of the stories for the show. Yeah, yeah,
it's unfortunately, you know, something happened to me and my
(07:55):
family so quickly and so sadly. Yeah. And later on
as you the COVID nineteen situation, so no, yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:05):
And then did you feel ready to start dating when
you decided to go on the Golden Bachelorette.
Speaker 2 (08:16):
I was thinking of that, but still not totally ready.
Speaker 1 (08:19):
Yeah that's okay.
Speaker 3 (08:21):
Yeah, Well you have had such a positive response from
people watching. How was your experience when you were there?
Were you excited? Were you attracted to Joan? What was
it like for you?
Speaker 2 (08:36):
Well? Yeah, first of all, I would say from the
very beginning. I would use the word a kind of
a surprise, a surprise that I say that because I
was accepted. I think probably compared with some of my
cast members, maybe I was not the most nervous person
(08:58):
laid on Ireland. You know, I would was a little
bit nervous, but as we opened up our conversation, I became,
you know, easier and easier. So so it was kind
of a little bit of nervous at the beginning, But
when the conversation started and we continued, and I realized
(09:21):
John John is such a you know, nice sweet lady,
and it was very easy to communicate, and obviously, you know,
she understood quote unquote my English very well. So the
conversation went on pretty pretty smooth.
Speaker 1 (09:38):
Yeah, So what was it like getting into the house
after you meet Jown and realizing that you are about
to live with twenty other guys.
Speaker 2 (09:59):
First of all, the first impression of the mansion was great.
You know, it was much bigger than I thought, because
before the ban I heard there's a kind of mansion.
But when I entered, it's a kind of feeling wow,
as you know. Besides, we were in the first early
groups to enter into the mansion, So there were not
(10:21):
many people there, and actually one thing really caught my
eyes first is the fireplace and the kitchen. And the
kitchen really you know. So then because there were not
many guys, you know, we say hi and we spoke
a little bit. Then I gradually shipped into the kitchen
and I say, wow, Then that's the you know a
(10:43):
lot of stuff that I kind of barely experienced before.
It's a huge, huge, you know, cooking area.
Speaker 1 (10:50):
Yeah, do you cook? Mm hmm? What what's your what's
your signature dish?
Speaker 2 (10:58):
I would say, you know, Jue, next time when you
come to my house, I will entertain you with a fish.
Speaker 1 (11:06):
Okay, what kind of fish?
Speaker 2 (11:08):
Fish? Yeah? I mean I can cook a many many,
many types of food, you know, many dishes, and I'm
not bragging. With that kind of kitchen in the mansion,
I can prepare properly eighteen dishes within three hours.
Speaker 1 (11:23):
Oh got.
Speaker 2 (11:26):
I mean yeah, with with a little bit of help
from one aid, you know, like a mark or somebody else.
Speaker 3 (11:33):
Yeah, you have to drink Sophia to be your sou chef,
right right, So.
Speaker 1 (11:38):
Out of all the guys, who are you closest with.
Speaker 2 (11:45):
This is this is a very very difficult question to answer.
Why mathematically, I think that they are pretty very equal.
I would if I would say, I would start with
a few eleman that I met, you know, the first day,
Grag for example, Dan, and then of course my roommates,
(12:08):
you know, a guy, uh, Gary and Michael and Chuck. Yeah,
I think yeah, And as you know, they care about me,
and I'm friendly with everybody, So I would say all
of them, yeah, including Jung.
Speaker 1 (12:28):
Was there was there anyone that you didn't like?
Speaker 2 (12:30):
Nope?
Speaker 1 (12:31):
Okay, what was what was Charles? What was happening with you?
What was happening with you? And Gary? You guys went
to a convenience store? What were you buying?
Speaker 2 (12:46):
Oh? Yeah, it's a I think it's probably it's an idea,
you know, coming out from us. And as you heard
from the stories, people snow as people get tired and
people cannot sleep well, so on and so forth. So
so it's a kind of idea. Well, we ask if
(13:07):
there's any you know, a local drug store that we
can purchase something so we can help. So then you know,
we went to a local store and we look around
and find something very nice. So we got them and
brought them back to the guys who who are grateful
to us and very happy to see these items on
(13:28):
the table.
Speaker 3 (13:29):
And did it help with the storing and the sleeping.
Speaker 2 (13:33):
I didn't test, but I think that those items will
grab us so quickly. So that sent you a message.
Speaker 1 (13:41):
Yeah, somebody wanted them. So you you One of the
scenes that we saw is you took you took a
top bunk because you were in better shape than most
of these guys. What uh, what's your secret?
Speaker 2 (13:55):
Well, you know, in five of us gathered in the
room and we had two bunk beds and one flat bed.
So easily, you know, we have to you know, assign
who to what. So first question we ask our age
so and then realize, I, I'm the oldest one. But
(14:18):
when I look around, you know, I hate to say
shape wise, hide twice some one so forth. So I volunteered,
you know, to be on the bank bet on the
second level. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (14:31):
Do you do you exercise?
Speaker 2 (14:33):
M I go to the gym, you know about four
times a week.
Speaker 1 (14:37):
That's good. That's good. And then how about what's your diet?
Look like.
Speaker 2 (14:42):
I'm not a scientist in sense, but I do read,
I listen to you know, a lectures. Yeah, and plus
along with my common sense, and I try to avoid,
you know, a meet as much as I can, and
I try to you know, eat as much vegetables or fruits,
(15:04):
but with with only limited amount each time. So I
want to make sure you know I'm in good fit.
Speaker 1 (15:12):
Yeah, got it. Let's pivot a little. Let's pivot a
little to the show. We see you have a pretty heartfelt,
serious conversation with guy about the passing of your wife.
Can you just kind of talk us through that a
little bit?
Speaker 2 (15:27):
Yes, And as I explained at the very beginning that
the standards just happened so quickly. I mean, that is,
my wife literally a fell from my shoulder. It was sad,
and I didn't anticipate, anticipate at all it would be
that severe, you know, at that time. But anyway, once
(15:52):
that happened, and when the doctor told me, you know
that the sad is the story on the earth, you know,
I could take it. And I still didn't believe at
the beginning. But then later on, and as I was
kind of feeling a little bit better, I tried to
recall what happened, the questions I had and the answers
(16:15):
I was looking for and obviously other parts. Probably I
got my answers, except the blood from her mouth that
you know, made me very sad. I couldn't figure out
so until you know. I one day I sat down
with guy who is a year doctor, and he heard
(16:36):
my story again and I asked his question and ask Guy,
what really which is coming from so based on my information,
Guy analyzed and he said, probably it's a bite from her,
you know ton. Unfortunately, that you know the bloodin I
(16:57):
was very sad, but at the same time I was
relieved because that was the answer I was searching for
for the last few years.
Speaker 1 (17:06):
Do you think after having that conversation and maybe getting
that clarity from guy, you were maybe a little more
ready to start taking dating more serious.
Speaker 2 (17:21):
I tend to agree with you, Joe, you know, because
once you get answer and you relieved. As a Probably
in the show I mentioned, you know, if my wife
or alive or what she saw what I'm doing, she
might say, you know, Charles, you need to move on.
You know that that kind of message, you know, So yeah, yes,
(17:44):
I would agree with you, Joe, Yes kind of you know,
tend to be readier than before.
Speaker 1 (17:51):
If your wife, if your wife could give you advice
when it comes to dating. What do you think she
would tell you if she was watching the show.
Speaker 2 (18:00):
Right now, she would tell me always, you know, Charles,
the first character you should look for is the intelligence,
and the second one that's sweetness.
Speaker 1 (18:13):
That's good.
Speaker 2 (18:13):
So so these are the kind of two characters I
would look for, you know.
Speaker 3 (18:20):
Yeah, what are your friends and your family that are watching.
What are they saying about the show? What do they
think about everything?
Speaker 2 (18:28):
Well, again, you know, since I'm traveling, you know, not
like other cast members in the back in the States.
You know, I don't watch with them, but I would
anticipate there are lots of surprises to them, you know,
in the episodes. But at the same time, you know,
particularly my daughters and my family members, they want to
(18:51):
see a happy Charles, you know, like in the old days. Yeah,
I didn't have bothered them in the last few years
as well. You know, they are worried about me, and
as you know, you know, I'm pretty cheerful person in
the old days, if I can say, yeah, otherwise, so
they wanted to see me the real chance again. So
(19:12):
the program, I think now they would say, you know,
it's a good decision. You know, really really it's worth it,
and probably they are also grateful to what all the producers,
everybody involved, you know, that helped me.
Speaker 1 (19:27):
Yeah, do you Yeah, I was gonna ask do you
feel do you feel happier now?
Speaker 2 (19:32):
Oh yeah, yeah, if I can say, I feel my
body is a little bit lighter than before in a sense.
Speaker 1 (19:43):
Yeah, that makes sense. We watched you play a little
kickball and you had a lot of fun doing that.
Was that the first time you played kickball?
Speaker 2 (19:58):
Yeah? Yeah. You know, if I describe this show is
it's four of surprises for me, you know, so the
kickerboy is another big surprise, you know, and also the kickboard.
And there's another terminology you mentioned is baseball, you know,
the kickboard baseball at the beginning, So when the when
(20:19):
the our bus brought us over there, I said, what
are we doing here? Then some guys maybe this, maybe that.
Then we saw some coaches, so so the kick ball started.
And then as you know, as the time when I
went by, you know, we have to divide into two teams,
and I kind of guessed the other team was very
(20:42):
delighted that I'm in the other team. Why because I
didn't have any knowledge experience whatever. So they were sure
that they're going to win.
Speaker 1 (20:55):
And then and then who won? You guys won, right.
Speaker 2 (20:59):
Of course the team with Charles l.
Speaker 3 (21:02):
Of course, Charles elst why.
Speaker 2 (21:06):
Now again it's a surprise, but also Luck and the
coach and team members, you know, coach me a little bit,
you know, before the game, and they show the diagram
and explained to me, Charles, what are the rules here
and also what I should do. Basically, rather than they
tell me, Charles what you shouldn't do, they keep telling
(21:27):
you do what we are told and then go on
and this exactly. I don't know how the TV was
showing in the real but I think at the end
I might tell myself probably Charles was the fittest person
on the field that day.
Speaker 1 (21:46):
I think you were. I think you were, Charles. I
believe that. Do you are? You? Do you have a
favorite sport?
Speaker 2 (21:53):
Not necessary? You know, in college, I'm not very strong
with sports. But on the other hand, I love all
kinds of sports, so I play around anything. And these days, actually,
you know, the pickable is my kind of favorite sports.
Speaker 1 (22:09):
Now nice, Yeah, Pickleball's fun. I enjoyed playing it.
Speaker 3 (22:13):
We saw you on another fun group day, which was
a little earlier in the season, which was the prom date.
Speaker 1 (22:20):
How did that go for you?
Speaker 2 (22:22):
Oh, that's I'm glad you mentioned this, you know, Serena,
it's it's a it's a surprise. As you know, historically
I never had a chance to go to prom, and
I didn't know much about the prompt per se, you know,
until you know I was involved. Sure, you know, my
(22:43):
daughters were involved prompt, but as a kind of a
general concept, sometimes they are involved, you know, me to
do this, do that. But I never went into the
real prompt so until that day and they brought me
and asked for what is as you know, actually you
know that morning when we assigned into a group date
(23:05):
and the details about the prom, and I was, you know,
asked to pick the suit first, you know, at the
very beginning, you know, after the announcement, and for whatever
reason that the color you know that I saw it
seems like in a match to my style. So I
picked that suit and then other ties and vot tax
(23:30):
something like that. You know. It turned out to be
very very nice.
Speaker 1 (23:35):
Yeah, And then overall, how how is your relationship with Joan?
Do you is there a spark there?
Speaker 2 (23:44):
Yeah? Then it was actually the first date, and of course,
you know, we start in a limo. You know, we
had a champagne, you know, I think it also sat sounds,
you know, on the way to the stadium and wait, wait,
you see I played games with Joan and I danced
(24:05):
with young and other people. We had conversations, and I
think later on we had a very atlantic conversations and
all distance and narrowed, and it began to you know,
I feel about her, and also she you know, noticed
that Charles probably the way you know, I kind of
(24:28):
behaved or acted, she approved it, I can tell. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:34):
That's good, that's good. Were there any from your observation?
Were there any other guys that you thought maybe had
a really strong connection with Joan that they know, not
that date, not that day, but how about how about overall.
Speaker 2 (24:51):
You mean later on?
Speaker 1 (24:52):
Yeah, I just just I would say, just yeah, like
where we're at in the season, your opinion, like who
has a really strong connection with John Good?
Speaker 2 (25:03):
You know, talking about opinion, there's a kind of circulation
around it, you know, as we know, as you know,
we discussed a lot. So I kind of joked with
the guys, which they believe, they said, I said, I
have the data.
Speaker 1 (25:18):
Hm.
Speaker 2 (25:19):
So, so that became a kind of, you know, a
popular phrase. So each time when they are puzzled, see
Charles has the data, let's go and ask him. So
I did analyze the first thing, you know, I thought,
who has more roses? And who is more aggressive? You know?
So I sensed it.
Speaker 1 (25:41):
Yeah, so who fit that equation?
Speaker 2 (25:44):
I can't tell you at this moment. I think.
Speaker 3 (25:48):
You can't spoil it was was Kim in your room?
Speaker 2 (25:53):
Nope?
Speaker 3 (25:54):
Do you remember Kim's Mansion Men's song by any chance?
We just saw it on the last episod.
Speaker 2 (26:00):
Oh yeah. And he sound very well. Actually, he impressed
me the first night, you know, I said, wow, we
have a navy officer here, and we talked and he's
he's very elegant, you know, he talks well and he
knows a lot, you know, I mean besides his career
(26:22):
as a navy I think a captain, you know, in
a sense. And I get along very well with him
as well. And the sounds also touched me. I think
he's saying, not only the one on the TV. He's
said the first night, you know, we met in the mansion.
So it's a great guy. In the late time also
(26:44):
heard about his own story as well. You know, he
has said the story along with him unfortunately.
Speaker 3 (26:51):
Yeah, what would be your advice to people that have
lost their spouses and are looking for again.
Speaker 2 (27:01):
I would say, you know, it's it's it's unfortunate, it's
very sad, and we have to tell ourselves, you know,
we have to admit that. That's the very very tough
first action I would use. You have to admit. Then second,
you know, be involved, try to be active, you know,
(27:23):
don't don't sit in your room or your library. Life
will make more miserable. You have to reach out and
if somebody you feel like, you know it's comfortable, just
say something. You know, you know, people say it was
a child, see why it looks so sad today. Then
you can open it up. Like one day I was
in the other gym that I met my with my
(27:46):
you know ex you know, colleague, and she was kind
of shocked, and then I began to open it up
and I told her story and she was very very sad.
So that's the sacond. And you know you have the third.
You know, if you're lucky as myself, you know, when
(28:06):
your kids kind of you know, support you and try
to guide you, in a sense, to into the new
direction of your new life. That would be you know,
it's the time you should have moved on.
Speaker 1 (28:18):
I think that's yeah, I think that's good advice. Do
you want to play a quick game? We're gonna play
a game with you.
Speaker 2 (28:25):
I beg your pardon, Joe, you want to you want.
Speaker 1 (28:27):
To play a game, We're gonna play a quick game.
Get to know a little about it.
Speaker 2 (28:32):
Pick a ball is a one off game? Or I
love to play chess.
Speaker 1 (28:35):
No, we're gonna play a game right now, now, yeah,
right now. I'm gonna just I'm gonna ask you. I'm
gonna ask you a bunch of questions and it's about
you and the first thing that comes to your head. Okay, sure,
all right, it's rapid fire, so you don't have to
overthink them. Okay, sure, all right. This is get to
know Charles favorite food or cuisine fish, yah, favorite place you.
Speaker 2 (29:01):
Visited, any any Rivers related.
Speaker 1 (29:06):
Favorite thing about being a parent, m reading, favorite Britney
Spears song.
Speaker 2 (29:16):
That might be tough, but as I mentioned, you know,
I listened to all kinds of songs. But I'm not
a kind of artist. So any something nice with I listen.
Speaker 1 (29:27):
Yeah, favorite way to unwind after a long day.
Speaker 2 (29:32):
Relax.
Speaker 1 (29:34):
What's the most adventurous thing you've ever done?
Speaker 2 (29:38):
Call me into some very high mountain?
Speaker 1 (29:41):
Oh? I like that? What mountain?
Speaker 2 (29:44):
And what they call it? A yellow mountain in China?
Speaker 1 (29:48):
Okay? Wow? What was the elevation on that?
Speaker 2 (29:52):
I don't know exactly, but pretty high?
Speaker 1 (29:55):
Okay, Go to drink at a bar.
Speaker 2 (30:01):
For me, I would grab a beer. May disappoint you beer, No, no, no,
wrong with that.
Speaker 1 (30:07):
If you could have one superpower, what would it be?
Speaker 2 (30:12):
Boy finance?
Speaker 1 (30:16):
I like that? Me too? Me too, Charles, me too.
What's one thing you would tell your younger.
Speaker 2 (30:21):
Self caring about yourself and others?
Speaker 1 (30:28):
And if you could sum up Jones season of The
Golden Bachelorette in one word, what would it be?
Speaker 2 (30:37):
Spectactular? Wow?
Speaker 1 (30:39):
I love that. I like that. I like that.
Speaker 3 (30:41):
Okay, Charles, Well, it's been such a pleasure having you
on to chat with us today. Thank you so much
for taking the time. But before you go, could you
close out this episode with a few bars from the
Mansion Men song if you remember it?
Speaker 2 (30:57):
Sure you know the Kam's fame fame of science, like
we are the mentionment and someone and so forth. You
know these sound way better than myself. Yeah, but we'll
got the gist. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (31:11):
Well, Charles, thank you so much. We really appreciate you
taking the time. And to all our listeners, thank you
guys so much for tuning in to Better Happy Hour.
We'll have exclusive interviews and recaps coming for you every week.
Speaker 3 (31:23):
Thanks for listening. Don't forget to subscribe. Bye.
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Joe Amabile
Susan Noles
Serena Pitt
Kathy Swarts
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