January 22, 2024 • 25 mins
Sláinte Mhath! Welcome to this Burns Night special where we're traveling to the Northern Highlands to celebrate the special day with some Scottish Castles...
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Speaker 1 (00:04):
On today's episode, We're in Scotland, a country with so
many castles you can't turn around without bumping into a battlement.
Thanks to the likes of William Wallace, ROBERTA Bruce and
some pretty mangold English goods, the place has a history
that contains more blood and guts than a Scottish breakfast.
Joining me to sift through said gut is historian, instagrammer
(00:25):
TikToker and Knower of Scottish Things Beth read.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
So bet Te us a bit about yourself.
Speaker 1 (00:32):
I've got down here that you're a historian, an author,
a content creator and specializing in medieval Scottish history.
Speaker 3 (00:38):
Yeah that's yeah, that's pretty much. Yes, so am. I
run our blog on Instagram and it's also do with
the Scottish Historday making Scottish history accessible to all, not
some kind of you know, gate keep subject. Everyone should
be able to enjoy it. And I'm also an author.
I'm currently working on my first book at the moment
for Pen and Star Publishers, which as Women in the
Scottish World of Independence. Yep, that's very exciting, Yes, very exciting.
Speaker 1 (01:02):
Definitely, can hear some Can we hear some top women
in Scottish independence.
Speaker 3 (01:06):
Definitely, So, I mean Christina Bruce, sister of Robert the Bruce,
and we'll hear lots about her later on. Isabella McDuff,
she was a political ally of Robert the Bruce, really
really important. And Agnes Randolph who was also really involved
in warfare and the politics at the time.
Speaker 1 (01:29):
It's very nice to have you on the podcast, Beth.
I understand that this is a Scottish English alliance.
Speaker 3 (01:35):
Yes, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (01:37):
Historically we haven't been the best of friends, but I
feel like we should put our bygones bygons and we
talk about the history. We need to move on as
a friendship.
Speaker 3 (01:47):
Yes, absolutely agreed, one hundred percent.
Speaker 1 (01:50):
We English tend to forget the history of everything. How
bad were we to you?
Speaker 3 (01:56):
Yeah? Pretty bad? Yeah, pretty bad. But it's fine. It's
so good. I mean, we we gave, we gave our best,
our best shot at England as well. So I think
we're both as bad as each other, to be honest.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
So that's a lovely attitude to have that.
Speaker 1 (02:08):
Yes, so you're currently You're currently in Sterling, which is
the place where our first castle that we're going to
talk about is situated. So when was it built what
was happening there?
Speaker 3 (02:20):
Yeah, of course it built Sterling The earliest records of
a building there is from eleven ten, but there's probably
been something there far longer before that, you know, whether
it's like a fortress, a Roman fortress, anything like that,
and it's just been a fortified settlement for centuries upon centuries.
But the current buildings that are there, the oldest one
(02:40):
dates to the thirteen eighties, but most of the main
royal palaces that are there are late fifteenth to early
sixteenth century.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
What royals are we talking?
Speaker 3 (02:50):
So this is the Scottish jerk king. So this is
James the third, James the fourth, James the fifth. Those
three kings played quite a significant role there. Lots of
James's and love of James in Scotland. Yes, oh yeah,
James's James the Sick as well, I've still got him
to come to And then Mary, Queen of Scott's as well,
also stayed at Sterling Castle as well, So yep, lots
(03:12):
lots of Stuart Kings.
Speaker 2 (03:20):
Let's stop missing about.
Speaker 1 (03:22):
What are the most gruesome stories you've got coming from
Sterling Castle.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
Oh?
Speaker 4 (03:26):
Well, you've got the murder of the Eighth Earl of
Douglas in fourteen fifty two. So he was the eighth Earl,
and he was a very very powerful, very ambitious nobleman
and was kind of going head to head with James
the Second of Scotland. He basically entered into a political
alliance with two other big noblemen and was invited to
(03:48):
the castle to sort things out with James. And obviously
whatever transpired turned a bit ugly and it resulted in
the Earl of Douglas being murdered by the King. He
was stabbed twenty seven time times twenty seven times, and
he had his brains dashed out with a pole axe apparently,
and then his body was thrown out of the window rather.
Speaker 3 (04:10):
Unceremoniously into the gardens below. So that's a pretty grisome one.
Speaker 1 (04:14):
Yeah, just in case he wasn't dead after his brain's
dashed and being stabbed to his seven times, let's check
him out the window for a good measure as.
Speaker 3 (04:19):
Well, just in case, you never know, he might have
survived it.
Speaker 1 (04:23):
What is a pole axe? Because I'll be honest with you,
I thought that was a big cat.
Speaker 3 (04:29):
It definitely wasn't a cat.
Speaker 2 (04:33):
They set a leopard on him at the end.
Speaker 3 (04:34):
Yeah, just to finish him off. Yeah, it's just it's
just a weapon, just kind of like a spear almost,
but obviously a bit more kind of grisome with that.
Speaker 2 (04:42):
So yeah, it's a big spiky pole pretty much.
Speaker 3 (04:45):
Yep, yep.
Speaker 2 (04:46):
Do we know which window he was thrown out of?
We do?
Speaker 3 (04:48):
Yeah, So in Sterling Castle there's an area that's called
the Douglas Gardens and it's actually because it's the area
he was thrown into. So the actual window that he
was thrown out of isn't there anymore because of a
fire that happened in the castle, but they did attempt
to reconstruct it, and there's a window above the gardens
that's got the heraldry for the Douglases on the window,
and they think that's exactly the spot he was thrown
(05:10):
out and into the gardens.
Speaker 1 (05:12):
Into the gardens, so presumably there have been some sort
of quite you know, just content people walking around, smelling flowers,
having going by their day to day, and then suddenly
an earl just gets scattered across the rhododendrons.
Speaker 2 (05:24):
It's not great, it's not a great day.
Speaker 3 (05:27):
No, not ideal. Wouldn't want to be in the gardens
when that happened.
Speaker 1 (05:30):
Definitely not this one I think rates quite highly on
the not very nice death scale.
Speaker 3 (05:36):
Yeah, but grisome.
Speaker 2 (05:37):
And how do we know that it was twenty seven times?
Speaker 1 (05:39):
Did someone was there a little scribe with a quill
in the corner just counting all the stabs?
Speaker 3 (05:44):
I mean, like pretty much. That's like the hilarious thing
about all these medieval chroniclers. You get they write down
all these really little details of things that happened, and
it's just like, how did you know that something? It
was taking notes at the time. Definitely, definitely I'd love
that to be a job.
Speaker 2 (05:58):
You're just like the murder scribe.
Speaker 1 (05:59):
And then yeah, okay, we've had a nice dose of gruesome.
Speaker 2 (06:06):
Yes we have more comedy now.
Speaker 3 (06:07):
Oh yeah, absolutely, it's a.
Speaker 2 (06:10):
Lovely like Ying and Yang.
Speaker 1 (06:12):
It's all about balance this podcast. Yes, get the gruesome
and now hilarity.
Speaker 2 (06:17):
Yep.
Speaker 3 (06:18):
So James the fourth at Stirling Castle, he was really
known for being into his culture. He was a big
patron of the arts, and we know that he had
a team of inventors and like scientists at Stirling Castle
that we're doing lots of kind of weird experiments and
things for him, and one of these inventors was a
man called John Damien. John Damien was an Italian inventor
(06:41):
who was at Stirling Castle and he believed that he
could fly from Sterling Castle to France.
Speaker 1 (06:47):
We're going very quick here on this story. So firstly,
we've got James the Fourth, who is so essentially like
Nick Fury from the Avengers. Yeah, I'm looking at it,
and he's hiring in all these sort of like right,
you're the alchemist and you're there, yep, yep, you're the
bloker does card tricks. And then and then there's this
(07:08):
this Italian guy called John Damien.
Speaker 2 (07:10):
Ye, that's a very disappointing.
Speaker 3 (07:13):
Thought that I've always thought that as well.
Speaker 1 (07:15):
I agree, I woant to call you like, yeah, Fabrizio
Mozzarella is what I want there, much better but John, right,
fair enough, we'll go with John. So he's been hiding,
but specifically because he reckons he can fly.
Speaker 3 (07:28):
Yes, he claims he can fly all the way from
Starlin to France.
Speaker 2 (07:32):
And he's there. He's got his metal big wings.
Speaker 1 (07:34):
Yep, I'm assuming quite a big wings span just probably
I'm sure, we're not absolutely sure. We can tell how
many times a guy was stabbed, but we can't tell
what the wings.
Speaker 3 (07:45):
Yeah, some details aren't there.
Speaker 1 (07:47):
And he's looking out across the cliff. Is it quite
a big drop.
Speaker 3 (07:50):
Yes, it's pretty high up. Yeah, you're straight down to
King's Park below you, so it as a pretty steep drop.
Speaker 2 (07:56):
Yep.
Speaker 3 (07:56):
Definitely. And he did jump off, and of course he
didn't fly and he fell to the grounds and luckily
for him though, there was a midden heap at the bottom,
so like a big pile of like dung or whatever,
and he landed in this, which broke his fall. So
he only broke his thigh bone out of anything that
could have happened.
Speaker 2 (08:16):
That's pretty good. And he's like Biff back to the future.
Speaker 1 (08:20):
Yeah, and he's like, I hate.
Speaker 2 (08:25):
Saved your life. Actually might so I wouldn't be sad
about it.
Speaker 3 (08:28):
Exactly, Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2 (08:29):
He just went straight into a big pile of yep.
Speaker 3 (08:31):
So he only broke his leg. He survived. And he
blamed it not working because he used chicken feathers, and
chickens don't fly very far, so that was apparently why
it didn't work, because it was chicken feathers. That was
his reason.
Speaker 1 (08:44):
Yeah, any other feathers and this would definitely have worked.
I'm not going to try it again, but it would
have definitely worked. Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 3 (08:53):
Apparently James the fourth loved it so much that he
gave John a permanent role at court, and we can
see in oil records that he paid John's pension until
his own death, so he obviously got to stay on
at the castle despite his spectacular failure at his experiment.
Speaker 2 (09:09):
But yeah, that's amazing. Did he have a wife?
Speaker 3 (09:12):
Oh, I'm not actually sure. That's a good question.
Speaker 1 (09:15):
I'm imagining just at the end of that day trying
to fly and he's sort of walking back home and
she's there and she's made him like a celebratory cake.
Speaker 2 (09:21):
John, how did it gown?
Speaker 1 (09:23):
He's there covered in shit and chicken feathers.
Speaker 2 (09:27):
Not great, to be honest, Mary, But.
Speaker 1 (09:31):
We have got our pension paid for the rest of
our lives.
Speaker 2 (09:35):
I'll be happy with that.
Speaker 3 (09:36):
Worth it.
Speaker 1 (09:48):
From gory to ridiculous to spooky, We're now going to
talk about the Green Lady, a young Highland girl.
Speaker 3 (09:57):
Absolutely so. The Green Lady is she's an apparition that
said to haunt Stirling Castle. Allegedly, she was a servant
girl of Mary Queen of Scots, and she had this vision,
this prediction that something terrible was going to happen to
the queen one night. So she stays up all night
to stay awake, to guard the queen, to make sure
nothing happens. But she nods off. She falls asleep and
(10:21):
drops her candle, which sets fire to the queen's eduntains.
Speaker 2 (10:25):
So she is the problem.
Speaker 3 (10:27):
She is the problem. So she starts this fire. Maybe
really exactly the queen well, so luckily Mary, Mary gets out.
Maybe Mary gets out alive and unscathed. But the servant girl,
unfortunately she does. Yeah, she does.
Speaker 2 (10:50):
She's been in the comedy section. Why spooky section. This
is some girl.
Speaker 1 (10:54):
I've got a really bad feeling about something that's going
to happen. Then she burns herself to death.
Speaker 3 (10:58):
Yeah, she basically caused her own problem.
Speaker 2 (11:00):
Actually really did exactly.
Speaker 1 (11:02):
So did the queen just wake up and just see
a burning child next to her bed?
Speaker 3 (11:06):
That's what I've always thought, the queen. So I'm over here.
I'll leave you. But I'm over here.
Speaker 2 (11:11):
Okay, I think that's enough sleep for me. I might
just walk downstairs and leave the.
Speaker 3 (11:15):
Child exactly exactly.
Speaker 2 (11:19):
So what happened to the girl. So she did just
burn on the spot, did she? Yeah?
Speaker 3 (11:22):
She dies, So she's she's just killed in this fire
that she causes, and then now haunts the castle and
is apparently very a very sad figure to come across.
But no wonder, really, no wonder. I'd be satisfied, of
course my own my own.
Speaker 2 (11:35):
Day as well. But do you believe in ghosts?
Speaker 3 (11:38):
Oh? I definitely believe in them. I don't think I've
ever seen one, but I don't know. I think there's
definitely some definitely some spooky stuff, especially all these old
castles as well. There's got to be something there.
Speaker 2 (11:46):
Yeah. Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (11:48):
The big question is in Stirring Castle, would you rather
die by being stabbed twenty seven times and bludgeoned with
a cat and thrown out a window' p off a
cliff and drowning some manure or set yourself a light.
Speaker 3 (12:07):
I feel like I'm going to go with the jumping
off the cliff and the pile of manuir. I feel
like that's an interesting way, interesting way to go.
Speaker 1 (12:16):
Yeah, I think so as well. Go on talking for
your reasoning. You can't just say that I want to
I want to hear why.
Speaker 3 (12:21):
I feel like it'd be quite you know, just that
you know, just getting to at least try, at least
try and see if you could fly anyway, that's.
Speaker 2 (12:27):
The point I think it is, because there would still
be a part of me that went. But what if
I did fly?
Speaker 3 (12:32):
Yeah, exactly exactly, there's hope there.
Speaker 2 (12:34):
You know, I wouldn't I wouldn't use chicken wings.
Speaker 3 (12:37):
Yeah, me neither. Not bad choice, bad choice from.
Speaker 2 (12:40):
Joining massive peacock feathers. It would look good and then
I'd look good.
Speaker 3 (12:44):
Yeah, yeah, exactly, which is what is important.
Speaker 2 (12:46):
So you know, how did I fancily.
Speaker 3 (12:50):
Exactly how it should be?
Speaker 2 (13:05):
Beth? What is your other favorite castle in Scotland?
Speaker 3 (13:09):
Probably Killed Drummy Castle in Aberdeenshire. That is a good.
Speaker 2 (13:13):
One's pretty Scottish to me.
Speaker 3 (13:15):
Kill Yeah, yeah, yeah exactly.
Speaker 2 (13:18):
So what's what's great about Killed Drummy.
Speaker 3 (13:20):
Well, it's a proper, you know, proper ruined medieval castle,
whereas Sterling's quite you know, it's quite kind of well
put together, you know, it's like a palace. Kill drummies
like a proper ruined castle from the thirteenth century. So
it's pretty pretty cool. Feels like you're in a movie
walking around there, and it's got these like really impressive,
big kind of ruined towers around it in a big
gatehouse and everything, so it's yeah, it's a pretty good
(13:41):
ruin one. I'm definitely one of my favorites.
Speaker 2 (13:43):
What are the big things of note that have happened there?
Speaker 3 (13:46):
So lots happened there during the Scottish Wars of Independence
in the fourteenth century, so probably a really gory one.
There was a siege there in thirteen o six, So
this was Robert the Bruce's brother, Neil Bruce. He's defending
the castle from.
Speaker 1 (14:05):
I've never heard of that. Robert the Bruce is obviously
very famous, and then just Neil Bruce.
Speaker 3 (14:09):
Neil, I know, Neil is so basic.
Speaker 2 (14:12):
Neil is that the other Attenborough? Is there a one
Neil Bruce? Is there? Neil Bruce, brother of Robert. Is
he the younger brother?
Speaker 3 (14:21):
Yes?
Speaker 2 (14:22):
Yeah, okay, yeah.
Speaker 3 (14:25):
He is defending killed Rummy Castle because he is protecting
Roberts Queen, Robert's daughter and their sisters as well, so
they're all like fiding call Drummy basically.
Speaker 1 (14:35):
From Robert's doing an actual war or fight and Neil's
like younger brother you're in charge of looking after the women.
Speaker 3 (14:43):
Yes, which is a very important role because that's Robert's heir.
His daughter is his heir to the throne, and his
queen is obviously the key to any other heirs. So
it's a very important role actually to have.
Speaker 2 (14:52):
Definitely, and his brother, I mean that's all his eggs
in one basket. Then that's his whole family exactly.
Speaker 3 (14:57):
Yeah. So Neil is defending killed Drummy against the Prince
of Wales, Edward, that's the future Edward the second and
the siege is going quite well. They're defending fair enough,
quite well, and then the castle. Blacksmith then betrays an
entrance to the castle. He betrays Neil and he tells
about this entrance to the English Army.
Speaker 2 (15:17):
Sneaky back entrance.
Speaker 3 (15:18):
Yeah, exactly, yeah, Blacksmith. Yeah classic. So obviously the siege
they fail. At the siege, they are defeated by the
Prince of Wales and Neil Bruce is taken to Carlyle
where he is hung, drawn and quartered.
Speaker 2 (15:36):
So just quickly describe being hung drawn quoted.
Speaker 3 (15:39):
So you're hanged until the point just before you just
before you know, you would asphyxiate your cut down so
you don't die. And then you are drawn, so that
is where they basically open up your stomach and take
out everything from your stomach, all your intestines and everything there.
And then you are quartered, so that is you're basically
(16:00):
chopped into quarters, so they chop your limbs off or
they chop your body up. And quite often that was
used as like a symbol and hum at different towns
and the country as a warning.
Speaker 2 (16:09):
So the all different corners of the country sort of thing. Yeah,
very who invented this?
Speaker 1 (16:15):
Who has sat down and went right, well, we want
three stages, so we'll hang them first, okay, rather just
putting in the stocks or boil them.
Speaker 2 (16:21):
They could done anything.
Speaker 3 (16:22):
Yeah, yeah, draw that.
Speaker 1 (16:26):
You know, you could just have them rather than quarter them.
Why have they decided to quarter them?
Speaker 3 (16:30):
Yeah, I know, I know. It's they're really bad them.
Yeah yeah. If they did, like something really bad, yeah yeah,
as many bits as possible, just chop them up.
Speaker 1 (16:39):
Yeah, he's been twenty seventh he was awful, a bad
guy exactly.
Speaker 3 (16:46):
Yeah, that would be that would be pretty bad. Yeah, definitely.
Speaker 1 (16:49):
You said there are more even worse ones happening in
this story, So carry on with the story.
Speaker 3 (16:54):
So Neil is defeated and he's executed then in Carlisle.
So remember the blacksmith who betrayed Neil Edwards. So Edwards,
even though the blacksmith has worked for Edward's favor, for
Edward's success, Edward cannot stomach traitors. He cannot stomach people
that will be maybe disloyal to him in the future
(17:15):
or cause problems for him. So he paid. So the
blacksmith asks to be paid in gold for what he
did for helping Edward. So Edward does pay him in gold,
but he has it paid to him poured moulton down
his throat. So there's moulton poured down the blacksmith's throat
and that's his payments.
Speaker 2 (17:36):
That's very Game of Thrones, isn't it. That's very yeah,
I know.
Speaker 3 (17:40):
Apparently that event possibly inspired Georgia R. Martin with the
cald Rogo scene where he pours the is in.
Speaker 1 (17:48):
Just a j in the Game of Thrones. It's the
first it's the first book Game of Thrones, and it's
it's to Danny's brother who's a bit cocky smug, yes,
not a good imagine in a sort of private club
in South Kensington, now I imagine him there and he
(18:09):
gets he gets a crown of gold, doesn't he?
Speaker 2 (18:11):
But you think this guy the black Bud gets it
Dannis's throat.
Speaker 3 (18:15):
Yes, yeah, exactly, pretty unpleasant.
Speaker 1 (18:19):
One of Robert the Bruce's sisters was pretty bad as
there wasn't she? Can you just tells about Christina?
Speaker 3 (18:24):
Absolutely so, yeah, Christina Bruce. She was one of Robert
the Bruce's sisters, one of his allies as well. She's
very supportive and loyal to him throughout all the kind
of drama of his reign. And in the thirteen thirties
she defended Caleddrummy Castle against this pretty notoriously bad earl
called David Strathbogie. There was another good name for him, Strathbogie.
Speaker 2 (18:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (18:48):
Yeah, So David Strathbogie is he's like a forfeited, kind
of exiled political figure in Scotland and he's come back
to kind of claim his land and get his title back.
Speaker 2 (19:00):
How steals Pinocchio, isn't he?
Speaker 3 (19:02):
It sounds like it. It sounds like it definitely, But yeah.
So he besieges Caldohnnie Castle and it's Christina Bruce that
is defending the castle and she successfully does, so she
absolutely defeats him and her husband comes north to try
and help her, and then he ends up killing David
Strathbogie at his big battle, and it's yeah, really important event,
(19:23):
just shows that women were right in there. They were
right in there with the warfare and with the political
leadership and everything. So yeah, really really cool.
Speaker 2 (19:29):
And how does Strathbogie die?
Speaker 3 (19:31):
It killed in battle? Sony any number of away killed
in battle? Yeah, paul Axe sword axe, who knows?
Speaker 2 (19:38):
So what happened to rob the Bruce's family.
Speaker 3 (19:41):
So after Edward defeats Neil and thirteen oh six Robert's queen,
daughter and sisters, they've all tried to escape north, but
they're then captured and are in captivity for eight years.
Some of them are hung from cages outside of castle walls,
that sort of thing. It's very unpleasant. So his his
queen is she he's under house arrest, and Christina Bruce
(20:02):
is under house arrest at a convent. But his daughter
and his other sister and another political ally they're all
in cages in castles for a number of years, so yeah,
pretty pretty unpleasant. But then they do come back after
the Scottish get more victories especially at the Battle of Bannockburn,
and then from there things generally are a lot better
for the Scots. Under Robert the Bruce, they take back
(20:24):
a lot of these castles from the English, including the
likes of Kildrummy Castle.
Speaker 1 (20:40):
Aside from the two castles we've talked about, what's your
other favorite castle or manor house or stately home.
Speaker 3 (20:49):
Probably Tantallan Castle, which is quite near Edinburgh's in South Scotland,
so in East Lothly, and it's a pretty good castle.
Speaker 2 (20:57):
Why what makes it good?
Speaker 3 (20:59):
So it's just it's a very different kind of architectural
design to a lot of other medieval castles. It's got
this absolutely huge curtain wall that's made up of these
different towers. It's absolutely massive. It's very different to other
Scottish castles. And it's also right on a cliff over
the sea as well, so it's pretty.
Speaker 2 (21:16):
A cliff, don't you. Oh yeah, cliff?
Speaker 3 (21:19):
Oh absolutely yeah. I mean I am choosing to go
with the jumping off on the manure. So there's a
game here. Yeah, definitely.
Speaker 1 (21:27):
If you can go back to any time or place
in history, when and where would that be?
Speaker 3 (21:33):
I would go back to February thirteen oh six to
see Robert the Bruce. He basically murders his political rival
before he then goes and usurps the Scottish thrones. I'd
like to go back and see what exactly caused that,
what happened there? Be quit interesting them.
Speaker 2 (21:49):
And you get to see a murder.
Speaker 3 (21:50):
Yeah, exactly, exactly.
Speaker 2 (21:52):
It's nice.
Speaker 1 (21:53):
Every good holiday I always think should have evolved at
least one murder.
Speaker 3 (21:57):
Yeah, it's got to be something exciting happen.
Speaker 2 (22:00):
Yes, if you could be any character from history, who
would it be?
Speaker 3 (22:04):
Oh? Probably? I think I'd like to meet like a
medieval queen. I think like Elizabeth de Burrough as Robert
the Bruce's wife and queen. She's quite an interesting character.
So yeah, I'd like to meet her. I think'd be
cool to hear what she thought.
Speaker 2 (22:19):
Would you ask her? What'll be your first question?
Speaker 3 (22:22):
I just want to know generally what life's like for
a queen in Scotland in the early fourteenth century. What
did she do day? You know? Tell me everything, yes, exactly,
give me all the gossip one hundred percent.
Speaker 2 (22:33):
And don't trust that Blacksmith.
Speaker 3 (22:35):
Yes, avoid Blacksmith at all costs.
Speaker 1 (22:38):
And aside from the stories. You told us, what's your
favorite scandal in history?
Speaker 3 (22:43):
Oh, definitely back to tantalent again. Back to that another Cliff,
this was the Earl of Douglas has an affair with
his sister in law. That's a good old scandal in
those times because he was already married, so adult today,
but in those times his sister in law, who's not
his blood relation, but because she was married into the family,
(23:06):
it was viewed as incest in the fourteenth century. And
these two are alway having an ancestral affair. So that's
a good scandal.
Speaker 1 (23:12):
So just to just we don't want any sland it.
It wasn't actually technically incest, but because of the marriage.
Speaker 3 (23:20):
Because they were married, it was viewed as incest back
in the fourteenth century.
Speaker 2 (23:23):
Yeah, so what's the punishment for that, Well.
Speaker 3 (23:25):
They didn't get any punishment. They kind of were left to,
you know, have lots of kids and just get on
with things. So lots of healthy kids, lots of healthy
kids because.
Speaker 2 (23:33):
They weren't actually being incestrious exactly exactly. You have brought.
Speaker 1 (23:38):
Cliff's death and incest to this podcast. And I always
knew coming to Scotland it was going to get fire
stay and you have not disappointed.
Speaker 3 (23:47):
I'm glad. I'm glad to have delivered.
Speaker 2 (23:50):
Beth.
Speaker 1 (23:50):
Thank you so much for coming on the podcast. Where
can our listeners find you.
Speaker 3 (23:54):
So it can find me on Instagram at History with
Beth or on tech Talk at History with Beth Underscore amazing.
Speaker 2 (24:02):
And the book. Are you to say when it's coming
out possibly or anything like that or is it next.
Speaker 3 (24:05):
Year at some point? Still early days, so hopefully looking
at next year, but all updates I'll have on my
Instagram and my Techtalk.
Speaker 2 (24:11):
So that's very very exciting. Congratulations, Thank you, thanks so much.
Speaker 3 (24:15):
I'm very excited.
Speaker 2 (24:16):
Thank you right well, thank you for be on the podcast.
I hope see you again soon.
Speaker 3 (24:18):
Yeah, thank you very much, thanks for having me there.
Speaker 1 (24:21):
You have it Cliffs, Death and Incest, the Holy Trinity
and the name of my new death metal album. Will
be exploring more Scottish castles next time with comedian Eleanor Morton,
someone who, as it happens, also has a death metal album,
Corpse Is Everywhere. She's also a very good judge of character.
Having only met me for five minutes, she really got
(24:42):
the measure of me.
Speaker 3 (24:44):
This kind of quite unhygienic, sex mad weirdo.
Speaker 2 (24:48):
Clearly read my hinge by it.
Speaker 1 (24:50):
Until then, remember, if you're trying to fly off a cliff,
don't use chicken feathers. If you're trying to protect the queen,
don't burn the castle down. And if you're celebrating burns
night this week, mind your manners nice.
Speaker 2 (25:04):
Thanks for listening to Bad Manners.
Speaker 1 (25:06):
If you like the pod, please share it with your friends,
Rate it on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or
wherever you get your podcasts. Leave a review and make
sure you spill the tea on any of your favorite
bad Manners.
Speaker 2 (25:18):
That we could feature in future episodes.
Speaker 1 (25:21):
This podcast was produced by Adamei Studios for iHeartRadio. It
was hosted by me Tom Horton. It was produced by
Willem Lensky, Rebecca Rappaport, and Chris Ataway. It was executive
produced by Face Steur and Zad Rogers. Our production manager
is Caitlin Paramore and our production coordinator is Bellasolini.
On today's episode, We're in Scotland, a country with so
many castles you can't turn around without bumping into a battlement.
Thanks to the likes of William Wallace, ROBERTA Bruce and
some pretty mangold English goods, the place has a history
that contains more blood and guts than a Scottish breakfast.
Joining me to sift through said gut is historian, instagrammer
(00:25):
TikToker and Knower of Scottish Things Beth read.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
So bet Te us a bit about yourself.
Speaker 1 (00:32):
I've got down here that you're a historian, an author,
a content creator and specializing in medieval Scottish history.
Speaker 3 (00:38):
Yeah that's yeah, that's pretty much. Yes, so am. I
run our blog on Instagram and it's also do with
the Scottish Historday making Scottish history accessible to all, not
some kind of you know, gate keep subject. Everyone should
be able to enjoy it. And I'm also an author.
I'm currently working on my first book at the moment
for Pen and Star Publishers, which as Women in the
Scottish World of Independence. Yep, that's very exciting, Yes, very exciting.
Speaker 1 (01:02):
Definitely, can hear some Can we hear some top women
in Scottish independence.
Speaker 3 (01:06):
Definitely, So, I mean Christina Bruce, sister of Robert the Bruce,
and we'll hear lots about her later on. Isabella McDuff,
she was a political ally of Robert the Bruce, really
really important. And Agnes Randolph who was also really involved
in warfare and the politics at the time.
Speaker 1 (01:29):
It's very nice to have you on the podcast, Beth.
I understand that this is a Scottish English alliance.
Speaker 3 (01:35):
Yes, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (01:37):
Historically we haven't been the best of friends, but I
feel like we should put our bygones bygons and we
talk about the history. We need to move on as
a friendship.
Speaker 3 (01:47):
Yes, absolutely agreed, one hundred percent.
Speaker 1 (01:50):
We English tend to forget the history of everything. How
bad were we to you?
Speaker 3 (01:56):
Yeah? Pretty bad? Yeah, pretty bad. But it's fine. It's
so good. I mean, we we gave, we gave our best,
our best shot at England as well. So I think
we're both as bad as each other, to be honest.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
So that's a lovely attitude to have that.
Speaker 1 (02:08):
Yes, so you're currently You're currently in Sterling, which is
the place where our first castle that we're going to
talk about is situated. So when was it built what
was happening there?
Speaker 3 (02:20):
Yeah, of course it built Sterling The earliest records of
a building there is from eleven ten, but there's probably
been something there far longer before that, you know, whether
it's like a fortress, a Roman fortress, anything like that,
and it's just been a fortified settlement for centuries upon centuries.
But the current buildings that are there, the oldest one
(02:40):
dates to the thirteen eighties, but most of the main
royal palaces that are there are late fifteenth to early
sixteenth century.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
What royals are we talking?
Speaker 3 (02:50):
So this is the Scottish jerk king. So this is
James the third, James the fourth, James the fifth. Those
three kings played quite a significant role there. Lots of
James's and love of James in Scotland. Yes, oh yeah,
James's James the Sick as well, I've still got him
to come to And then Mary, Queen of Scott's as well,
also stayed at Sterling Castle as well, So yep, lots
(03:12):
lots of Stuart Kings.
Speaker 2 (03:20):
Let's stop missing about.
Speaker 1 (03:22):
What are the most gruesome stories you've got coming from
Sterling Castle.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
Oh?
Speaker 4 (03:26):
Well, you've got the murder of the Eighth Earl of
Douglas in fourteen fifty two. So he was the eighth Earl,
and he was a very very powerful, very ambitious nobleman
and was kind of going head to head with James
the Second of Scotland. He basically entered into a political
alliance with two other big noblemen and was invited to
(03:48):
the castle to sort things out with James. And obviously
whatever transpired turned a bit ugly and it resulted in
the Earl of Douglas being murdered by the King. He
was stabbed twenty seven time times twenty seven times, and
he had his brains dashed out with a pole axe apparently,
and then his body was thrown out of the window rather.
Speaker 3 (04:10):
Unceremoniously into the gardens below. So that's a pretty grisome one.
Speaker 1 (04:14):
Yeah, just in case he wasn't dead after his brain's
dashed and being stabbed to his seven times, let's check
him out the window for a good measure as.
Speaker 3 (04:19):
Well, just in case, you never know, he might have
survived it.
Speaker 1 (04:23):
What is a pole axe? Because I'll be honest with you,
I thought that was a big cat.
Speaker 3 (04:29):
It definitely wasn't a cat.
Speaker 2 (04:33):
They set a leopard on him at the end.
Speaker 3 (04:34):
Yeah, just to finish him off. Yeah, it's just it's
just a weapon, just kind of like a spear almost,
but obviously a bit more kind of grisome with that.
Speaker 2 (04:42):
So yeah, it's a big spiky pole pretty much.
Speaker 3 (04:45):
Yep, yep.
Speaker 2 (04:46):
Do we know which window he was thrown out of?
We do?
Speaker 3 (04:48):
Yeah, So in Sterling Castle there's an area that's called
the Douglas Gardens and it's actually because it's the area
he was thrown into. So the actual window that he
was thrown out of isn't there anymore because of a
fire that happened in the castle, but they did attempt
to reconstruct it, and there's a window above the gardens
that's got the heraldry for the Douglases on the window,
and they think that's exactly the spot he was thrown
(05:10):
out and into the gardens.
Speaker 1 (05:12):
Into the gardens, so presumably there have been some sort
of quite you know, just content people walking around, smelling flowers,
having going by their day to day, and then suddenly
an earl just gets scattered across the rhododendrons.
Speaker 2 (05:24):
It's not great, it's not a great day.
Speaker 3 (05:27):
No, not ideal. Wouldn't want to be in the gardens
when that happened.
Speaker 1 (05:30):
Definitely not this one I think rates quite highly on
the not very nice death scale.
Speaker 3 (05:36):
Yeah, but grisome.
Speaker 2 (05:37):
And how do we know that it was twenty seven times?
Speaker 1 (05:39):
Did someone was there a little scribe with a quill
in the corner just counting all the stabs?
Speaker 3 (05:44):
I mean, like pretty much. That's like the hilarious thing
about all these medieval chroniclers. You get they write down
all these really little details of things that happened, and
it's just like, how did you know that something? It
was taking notes at the time. Definitely, definitely I'd love
that to be a job.
Speaker 2 (05:58):
You're just like the murder scribe.
Speaker 1 (05:59):
And then yeah, okay, we've had a nice dose of gruesome.
Speaker 2 (06:06):
Yes we have more comedy now.
Speaker 3 (06:07):
Oh yeah, absolutely, it's a.
Speaker 2 (06:10):
Lovely like Ying and Yang.
Speaker 1 (06:12):
It's all about balance this podcast. Yes, get the gruesome
and now hilarity.
Speaker 2 (06:17):
Yep.
Speaker 3 (06:18):
So James the fourth at Stirling Castle, he was really
known for being into his culture. He was a big
patron of the arts, and we know that he had
a team of inventors and like scientists at Stirling Castle
that we're doing lots of kind of weird experiments and
things for him, and one of these inventors was a
man called John Damien. John Damien was an Italian inventor
(06:41):
who was at Stirling Castle and he believed that he
could fly from Sterling Castle to France.
Speaker 1 (06:47):
We're going very quick here on this story. So firstly,
we've got James the Fourth, who is so essentially like
Nick Fury from the Avengers. Yeah, I'm looking at it,
and he's hiring in all these sort of like right,
you're the alchemist and you're there, yep, yep, you're the
bloker does card tricks. And then and then there's this
(07:08):
this Italian guy called John Damien.
Speaker 2 (07:10):
Ye, that's a very disappointing.
Speaker 3 (07:13):
Thought that I've always thought that as well.
Speaker 1 (07:15):
I agree, I woant to call you like, yeah, Fabrizio
Mozzarella is what I want there, much better but John, right,
fair enough, we'll go with John. So he's been hiding,
but specifically because he reckons he can fly.
Speaker 3 (07:28):
Yes, he claims he can fly all the way from
Starlin to France.
Speaker 2 (07:32):
And he's there. He's got his metal big wings.
Speaker 1 (07:34):
Yep, I'm assuming quite a big wings span just probably
I'm sure, we're not absolutely sure. We can tell how
many times a guy was stabbed, but we can't tell
what the wings.
Speaker 3 (07:45):
Yeah, some details aren't there.
Speaker 1 (07:47):
And he's looking out across the cliff. Is it quite
a big drop.
Speaker 3 (07:50):
Yes, it's pretty high up. Yeah, you're straight down to
King's Park below you, so it as a pretty steep drop.
Speaker 2 (07:56):
Yep.
Speaker 3 (07:56):
Definitely. And he did jump off, and of course he
didn't fly and he fell to the grounds and luckily
for him though, there was a midden heap at the bottom,
so like a big pile of like dung or whatever,
and he landed in this, which broke his fall. So
he only broke his thigh bone out of anything that
could have happened.
Speaker 2 (08:16):
That's pretty good. And he's like Biff back to the future.
Speaker 1 (08:20):
Yeah, and he's like, I hate.
Speaker 2 (08:25):
Saved your life. Actually might so I wouldn't be sad
about it.
Speaker 3 (08:28):
Exactly, Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2 (08:29):
He just went straight into a big pile of yep.
Speaker 3 (08:31):
So he only broke his leg. He survived. And he
blamed it not working because he used chicken feathers, and
chickens don't fly very far, so that was apparently why
it didn't work, because it was chicken feathers. That was
his reason.
Speaker 1 (08:44):
Yeah, any other feathers and this would definitely have worked.
I'm not going to try it again, but it would
have definitely worked. Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 3 (08:53):
Apparently James the fourth loved it so much that he
gave John a permanent role at court, and we can
see in oil records that he paid John's pension until
his own death, so he obviously got to stay on
at the castle despite his spectacular failure at his experiment.
Speaker 2 (09:09):
But yeah, that's amazing. Did he have a wife?
Speaker 3 (09:12):
Oh, I'm not actually sure. That's a good question.
Speaker 1 (09:15):
I'm imagining just at the end of that day trying
to fly and he's sort of walking back home and
she's there and she's made him like a celebratory cake.
Speaker 2 (09:21):
John, how did it gown?
Speaker 1 (09:23):
He's there covered in shit and chicken feathers.
Speaker 2 (09:27):
Not great, to be honest, Mary, But.
Speaker 1 (09:31):
We have got our pension paid for the rest of
our lives.
Speaker 2 (09:35):
I'll be happy with that.
Speaker 3 (09:36):
Worth it.
Speaker 1 (09:48):
From gory to ridiculous to spooky, We're now going to
talk about the Green Lady, a young Highland girl.
Speaker 3 (09:57):
Absolutely so. The Green Lady is she's an apparition that
said to haunt Stirling Castle. Allegedly, she was a servant
girl of Mary Queen of Scots, and she had this vision,
this prediction that something terrible was going to happen to
the queen one night. So she stays up all night
to stay awake, to guard the queen, to make sure
nothing happens. But she nods off. She falls asleep and
(10:21):
drops her candle, which sets fire to the queen's eduntains.
Speaker 2 (10:25):
So she is the problem.
Speaker 3 (10:27):
She is the problem. So she starts this fire. Maybe
really exactly the queen well, so luckily Mary, Mary gets out.
Maybe Mary gets out alive and unscathed. But the servant girl,
unfortunately she does. Yeah, she does.
Speaker 2 (10:50):
She's been in the comedy section. Why spooky section. This
is some girl.
Speaker 1 (10:54):
I've got a really bad feeling about something that's going
to happen. Then she burns herself to death.
Speaker 3 (10:58):
Yeah, she basically caused her own problem.
Speaker 2 (11:00):
Actually really did exactly.
Speaker 1 (11:02):
So did the queen just wake up and just see
a burning child next to her bed?
Speaker 3 (11:06):
That's what I've always thought, the queen. So I'm over here.
I'll leave you. But I'm over here.
Speaker 2 (11:11):
Okay, I think that's enough sleep for me. I might
just walk downstairs and leave the.
Speaker 3 (11:15):
Child exactly exactly.
Speaker 2 (11:19):
So what happened to the girl. So she did just
burn on the spot, did she? Yeah?
Speaker 3 (11:22):
She dies, So she's she's just killed in this fire
that she causes, and then now haunts the castle and
is apparently very a very sad figure to come across.
But no wonder, really, no wonder. I'd be satisfied, of
course my own my own.
Speaker 2 (11:35):
Day as well. But do you believe in ghosts?
Speaker 3 (11:38):
Oh? I definitely believe in them. I don't think I've
ever seen one, but I don't know. I think there's
definitely some definitely some spooky stuff, especially all these old
castles as well. There's got to be something there.
Speaker 2 (11:46):
Yeah. Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (11:48):
The big question is in Stirring Castle, would you rather
die by being stabbed twenty seven times and bludgeoned with
a cat and thrown out a window' p off a
cliff and drowning some manure or set yourself a light.
Speaker 3 (12:07):
I feel like I'm going to go with the jumping
off the cliff and the pile of manuir. I feel
like that's an interesting way, interesting way to go.
Speaker 1 (12:16):
Yeah, I think so as well. Go on talking for
your reasoning. You can't just say that I want to
I want to hear why.
Speaker 3 (12:21):
I feel like it'd be quite you know, just that
you know, just getting to at least try, at least
try and see if you could fly anyway, that's.
Speaker 2 (12:27):
The point I think it is, because there would still
be a part of me that went. But what if
I did fly?
Speaker 3 (12:32):
Yeah, exactly exactly, there's hope there.
Speaker 2 (12:34):
You know, I wouldn't I wouldn't use chicken wings.
Speaker 3 (12:37):
Yeah, me neither. Not bad choice, bad choice from.
Speaker 2 (12:40):
Joining massive peacock feathers. It would look good and then
I'd look good.
Speaker 3 (12:44):
Yeah, yeah, exactly, which is what is important.
Speaker 2 (12:46):
So you know, how did I fancily.
Speaker 3 (12:50):
Exactly how it should be?
Speaker 2 (13:05):
Beth? What is your other favorite castle in Scotland?
Speaker 3 (13:09):
Probably Killed Drummy Castle in Aberdeenshire. That is a good.
Speaker 2 (13:13):
One's pretty Scottish to me.
Speaker 3 (13:15):
Kill Yeah, yeah, yeah exactly.
Speaker 2 (13:18):
So what's what's great about Killed Drummy.
Speaker 3 (13:20):
Well, it's a proper, you know, proper ruined medieval castle,
whereas Sterling's quite you know, it's quite kind of well
put together, you know, it's like a palace. Kill drummies
like a proper ruined castle from the thirteenth century. So
it's pretty pretty cool. Feels like you're in a movie
walking around there, and it's got these like really impressive,
big kind of ruined towers around it in a big
gatehouse and everything, so it's yeah, it's a pretty good
(13:41):
ruin one. I'm definitely one of my favorites.
Speaker 2 (13:43):
What are the big things of note that have happened there?
Speaker 3 (13:46):
So lots happened there during the Scottish Wars of Independence
in the fourteenth century, so probably a really gory one.
There was a siege there in thirteen o six, So
this was Robert the Bruce's brother, Neil Bruce. He's defending
the castle from.
Speaker 1 (14:05):
I've never heard of that. Robert the Bruce is obviously
very famous, and then just Neil Bruce.
Speaker 3 (14:09):
Neil, I know, Neil is so basic.
Speaker 2 (14:12):
Neil is that the other Attenborough? Is there a one
Neil Bruce? Is there? Neil Bruce, brother of Robert. Is
he the younger brother?
Speaker 3 (14:21):
Yes?
Speaker 2 (14:22):
Yeah, okay, yeah.
Speaker 3 (14:25):
He is defending killed Rummy Castle because he is protecting
Roberts Queen, Robert's daughter and their sisters as well, so
they're all like fiding call Drummy basically.
Speaker 1 (14:35):
From Robert's doing an actual war or fight and Neil's
like younger brother you're in charge of looking after the women.
Speaker 3 (14:43):
Yes, which is a very important role because that's Robert's heir.
His daughter is his heir to the throne, and his
queen is obviously the key to any other heirs. So
it's a very important role actually to have.
Speaker 2 (14:52):
Definitely, and his brother, I mean that's all his eggs
in one basket. Then that's his whole family exactly.
Speaker 3 (14:57):
Yeah. So Neil is defending killed Drummy against the Prince
of Wales, Edward, that's the future Edward the second and
the siege is going quite well. They're defending fair enough,
quite well, and then the castle. Blacksmith then betrays an
entrance to the castle. He betrays Neil and he tells
about this entrance to the English Army.
Speaker 2 (15:17):
Sneaky back entrance.
Speaker 3 (15:18):
Yeah, exactly, yeah, Blacksmith. Yeah classic. So obviously the siege
they fail. At the siege, they are defeated by the
Prince of Wales and Neil Bruce is taken to Carlyle
where he is hung, drawn and quartered.
Speaker 2 (15:36):
So just quickly describe being hung drawn quoted.
Speaker 3 (15:39):
So you're hanged until the point just before you just
before you know, you would asphyxiate your cut down so
you don't die. And then you are drawn, so that
is where they basically open up your stomach and take
out everything from your stomach, all your intestines and everything there.
And then you are quartered, so that is you're basically
(16:00):
chopped into quarters, so they chop your limbs off or
they chop your body up. And quite often that was
used as like a symbol and hum at different towns
and the country as a warning.
Speaker 2 (16:09):
So the all different corners of the country sort of thing. Yeah,
very who invented this?
Speaker 1 (16:15):
Who has sat down and went right, well, we want
three stages, so we'll hang them first, okay, rather just
putting in the stocks or boil them.
Speaker 2 (16:21):
They could done anything.
Speaker 3 (16:22):
Yeah, yeah, draw that.
Speaker 1 (16:26):
You know, you could just have them rather than quarter them.
Why have they decided to quarter them?
Speaker 3 (16:30):
Yeah, I know, I know. It's they're really bad them.
Yeah yeah. If they did, like something really bad, yeah yeah,
as many bits as possible, just chop them up.
Speaker 1 (16:39):
Yeah, he's been twenty seventh he was awful, a bad
guy exactly.
Speaker 3 (16:46):
Yeah, that would be that would be pretty bad. Yeah, definitely.
Speaker 1 (16:49):
You said there are more even worse ones happening in
this story, So carry on with the story.
Speaker 3 (16:54):
So Neil is defeated and he's executed then in Carlisle.
So remember the blacksmith who betrayed Neil Edwards. So Edwards,
even though the blacksmith has worked for Edward's favor, for
Edward's success, Edward cannot stomach traitors. He cannot stomach people
that will be maybe disloyal to him in the future
(17:15):
or cause problems for him. So he paid. So the
blacksmith asks to be paid in gold for what he
did for helping Edward. So Edward does pay him in gold,
but he has it paid to him poured moulton down
his throat. So there's moulton poured down the blacksmith's throat
and that's his payments.
Speaker 2 (17:36):
That's very Game of Thrones, isn't it. That's very yeah,
I know.
Speaker 3 (17:40):
Apparently that event possibly inspired Georgia R. Martin with the
cald Rogo scene where he pours the is in.
Speaker 1 (17:48):
Just a j in the Game of Thrones. It's the
first it's the first book Game of Thrones, and it's
it's to Danny's brother who's a bit cocky smug, yes,
not a good imagine in a sort of private club
in South Kensington, now I imagine him there and he
(18:09):
gets he gets a crown of gold, doesn't he?
Speaker 2 (18:11):
But you think this guy the black Bud gets it
Dannis's throat.
Speaker 3 (18:15):
Yes, yeah, exactly, pretty unpleasant.
Speaker 1 (18:19):
One of Robert the Bruce's sisters was pretty bad as
there wasn't she? Can you just tells about Christina?
Speaker 3 (18:24):
Absolutely so, yeah, Christina Bruce. She was one of Robert
the Bruce's sisters, one of his allies as well. She's
very supportive and loyal to him throughout all the kind
of drama of his reign. And in the thirteen thirties
she defended Caleddrummy Castle against this pretty notoriously bad earl
called David Strathbogie. There was another good name for him, Strathbogie.
Speaker 2 (18:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (18:48):
Yeah, So David Strathbogie is he's like a forfeited, kind
of exiled political figure in Scotland and he's come back
to kind of claim his land and get his title back.
Speaker 2 (19:00):
How steals Pinocchio, isn't he?
Speaker 3 (19:02):
It sounds like it. It sounds like it definitely, But yeah.
So he besieges Caldohnnie Castle and it's Christina Bruce that
is defending the castle and she successfully does, so she
absolutely defeats him and her husband comes north to try
and help her, and then he ends up killing David
Strathbogie at his big battle, and it's yeah, really important event,
(19:23):
just shows that women were right in there. They were
right in there with the warfare and with the political
leadership and everything. So yeah, really really cool.
Speaker 2 (19:29):
And how does Strathbogie die?
Speaker 3 (19:31):
It killed in battle? Sony any number of away killed
in battle? Yeah, paul Axe sword axe, who knows?
Speaker 2 (19:38):
So what happened to rob the Bruce's family.
Speaker 3 (19:41):
So after Edward defeats Neil and thirteen oh six Robert's queen,
daughter and sisters, they've all tried to escape north, but
they're then captured and are in captivity for eight years.
Some of them are hung from cages outside of castle walls,
that sort of thing. It's very unpleasant. So his his
queen is she he's under house arrest, and Christina Bruce
(20:02):
is under house arrest at a convent. But his daughter
and his other sister and another political ally they're all
in cages in castles for a number of years, so yeah,
pretty pretty unpleasant. But then they do come back after
the Scottish get more victories especially at the Battle of Bannockburn,
and then from there things generally are a lot better
for the Scots. Under Robert the Bruce, they take back
(20:24):
a lot of these castles from the English, including the
likes of Kildrummy Castle.
Speaker 1 (20:40):
Aside from the two castles we've talked about, what's your
other favorite castle or manor house or stately home.
Speaker 3 (20:49):
Probably Tantallan Castle, which is quite near Edinburgh's in South Scotland,
so in East Lothly, and it's a pretty good castle.
Speaker 2 (20:57):
Why what makes it good?
Speaker 3 (20:59):
So it's just it's a very different kind of architectural
design to a lot of other medieval castles. It's got
this absolutely huge curtain wall that's made up of these
different towers. It's absolutely massive. It's very different to other
Scottish castles. And it's also right on a cliff over
the sea as well, so it's pretty.
Speaker 2 (21:16):
A cliff, don't you. Oh yeah, cliff?
Speaker 3 (21:19):
Oh absolutely yeah. I mean I am choosing to go
with the jumping off on the manure. So there's a
game here. Yeah, definitely.
Speaker 1 (21:27):
If you can go back to any time or place
in history, when and where would that be?
Speaker 3 (21:33):
I would go back to February thirteen oh six to
see Robert the Bruce. He basically murders his political rival
before he then goes and usurps the Scottish thrones. I'd
like to go back and see what exactly caused that,
what happened there? Be quit interesting them.
Speaker 2 (21:49):
And you get to see a murder.
Speaker 3 (21:50):
Yeah, exactly, exactly.
Speaker 2 (21:52):
It's nice.
Speaker 1 (21:53):
Every good holiday I always think should have evolved at
least one murder.
Speaker 3 (21:57):
Yeah, it's got to be something exciting happen.
Speaker 2 (22:00):
Yes, if you could be any character from history, who
would it be?
Speaker 3 (22:04):
Oh? Probably? I think I'd like to meet like a
medieval queen. I think like Elizabeth de Burrough as Robert
the Bruce's wife and queen. She's quite an interesting character.
So yeah, I'd like to meet her. I think'd be
cool to hear what she thought.
Speaker 2 (22:19):
Would you ask her? What'll be your first question?
Speaker 3 (22:22):
I just want to know generally what life's like for
a queen in Scotland in the early fourteenth century. What
did she do day? You know? Tell me everything, yes, exactly,
give me all the gossip one hundred percent.
Speaker 2 (22:33):
And don't trust that Blacksmith.
Speaker 3 (22:35):
Yes, avoid Blacksmith at all costs.
Speaker 1 (22:38):
And aside from the stories. You told us, what's your
favorite scandal in history?
Speaker 3 (22:43):
Oh, definitely back to tantalent again. Back to that another Cliff,
this was the Earl of Douglas has an affair with
his sister in law. That's a good old scandal in
those times because he was already married, so adult today,
but in those times his sister in law, who's not
his blood relation, but because she was married into the family,
(23:06):
it was viewed as incest in the fourteenth century. And
these two are alway having an ancestral affair. So that's
a good scandal.
Speaker 1 (23:12):
So just to just we don't want any sland it.
It wasn't actually technically incest, but because of the marriage.
Speaker 3 (23:20):
Because they were married, it was viewed as incest back
in the fourteenth century.
Speaker 2 (23:23):
Yeah, so what's the punishment for that, Well.
Speaker 3 (23:25):
They didn't get any punishment. They kind of were left to,
you know, have lots of kids and just get on
with things. So lots of healthy kids, lots of healthy
kids because.
Speaker 2 (23:33):
They weren't actually being incestrious exactly exactly. You have brought.
Speaker 1 (23:38):
Cliff's death and incest to this podcast. And I always
knew coming to Scotland it was going to get fire
stay and you have not disappointed.
Speaker 3 (23:47):
I'm glad. I'm glad to have delivered.
Speaker 2 (23:50):
Beth.
Speaker 1 (23:50):
Thank you so much for coming on the podcast. Where
can our listeners find you.
Speaker 3 (23:54):
So it can find me on Instagram at History with
Beth or on tech Talk at History with Beth Underscore amazing.
Speaker 2 (24:02):
And the book. Are you to say when it's coming
out possibly or anything like that or is it next.
Speaker 3 (24:05):
Year at some point? Still early days, so hopefully looking
at next year, but all updates I'll have on my
Instagram and my Techtalk.
Speaker 2 (24:11):
So that's very very exciting. Congratulations, Thank you, thanks so much.
Speaker 3 (24:15):
I'm very excited.
Speaker 2 (24:16):
Thank you right well, thank you for be on the podcast.
I hope see you again soon.
Speaker 3 (24:18):
Yeah, thank you very much, thanks for having me there.
Speaker 1 (24:21):
You have it Cliffs, Death and Incest, the Holy Trinity
and the name of my new death metal album. Will
be exploring more Scottish castles next time with comedian Eleanor Morton,
someone who, as it happens, also has a death metal album,
Corpse Is Everywhere. She's also a very good judge of character.
Having only met me for five minutes, she really got
(24:42):
the measure of me.
Speaker 3 (24:44):
This kind of quite unhygienic, sex mad weirdo.
Speaker 2 (24:48):
Clearly read my hinge by it.
Speaker 1 (24:50):
Until then, remember, if you're trying to fly off a cliff,
don't use chicken feathers. If you're trying to protect the queen,
don't burn the castle down. And if you're celebrating burns
night this week, mind your manners nice.
Speaker 2 (25:04):
Thanks for listening to Bad Manners.
Speaker 1 (25:06):
If you like the pod, please share it with your friends,
Rate it on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or
wherever you get your podcasts. Leave a review and make
sure you spill the tea on any of your favorite
bad Manners.
Speaker 2 (25:18):
That we could feature in future episodes.
Speaker 1 (25:21):
This podcast was produced by Adamei Studios for iHeartRadio. It
was hosted by me Tom Horton. It was produced by
Willem Lensky, Rebecca Rappaport, and Chris Ataway. It was executive
produced by Face Steur and Zad Rogers. Our production manager
is Caitlin Paramore and our production coordinator is Bellasolini.
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