April 22, 2024 • 32 mins
Today we are going to explore the rich and whimsical history of heaver Castle in Kent, Engand. Hever Castle has a rich and varied history, from its origins as a country house in the thirteenth century to its transformation into a grand mansion in the twentieth century. Amongst its notable residents was the Boleyn family, who lived at Hever Castle in the Sixteenth Century and whose daughter Anne became the second wife of King Henry VIII. (She'll be playing a big part in this story.) Joining us as our expert is Dr Amy Boyington, as we delve into the castle's past and discover the stories of the people who lived and worked there, the events that shaped its history, and the unique features that make heaver Castle one of England's most beloved historic parks...
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Today we are going to explore the rich and whimsical
history of heaver Castle in Kent, England. Hever Castle has
a rich and varied history, from its origins as a
country house in the thirteenth century to its transformation into
a grand mansion in the twentieth century. Amongst its notable
residents was the Berlin family, who lived at Hever Castle
(00:22):
in the sixteenth century and whose daughter Anne became the
second wife of King Henry the eighth. She'll be playing
a big part in this story. Joining us as our
expert is Dr Amy Boyington, as we delve into the
castle's past and discover the stories of the people who
lived and worked there, the events that shaped its history,
(00:44):
and the unique features that make heaver Castle one of
England's most beloved historic parks. Amy, very nice you to
join us. How are you'd say? Would like to introduce yourself?
Speaker 2 (01:02):
Hi? Yeah, I'm very well. I'm Dr Amy Boyington. I'm
a historian. I'm a senior properties historian at English Heritage,
which is a charity that owns over four hundred historic
buildings in the UK. It's a fantastic place. Do check
it out. And yeah, outside of that, I do lots
of tiktoks about history. Say, if you're on that platform,
(01:23):
do you check it out?
Speaker 1 (01:24):
I sadly haven't had the good fortune to visit Hever
Castle yet, So could you just paint me a picture
of what I'm seeing if I was there right now
looking at it. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:36):
So Hever Castle is in Kent, which is a very
beautiful part of England, and imagine we're standing in front
of it right now. It's sort of a rectangular building.
It looks like a castle, but it doesn't have any
round turrets. It's a rectangular building surrounded by a rectangular moat,
so a ditch with water. And then in the middle,
if we're looking up at the center, there's a bridge.
(01:59):
It probably used to be a draw bridge, but now
it's just a permanent structure. Across the bridge, you go
through the gatehouse and then you come into this small
little courtyard and it seems it's quite cozy because it
wasn't the largest building. It was kind of domestic and homely,
but very impressive at the same time. And then if
you look up around all of the sides you can
see sort of timber framed buildings, so that means, you know,
(02:20):
like black and white sort of structures. It's not stone
on the interior because that was a sort of cheaper
way of building. But yes, you get the feel like
you're really stepping back in time.
Speaker 1 (02:30):
Like an armadillo, like an armored on the outside. Soft.
Speaker 2 (02:34):
Yeah, okay, we'll go with that.
Speaker 1 (02:37):
Was there a reason behind that design? I mean, did
it have any military intentions?
Speaker 2 (02:42):
I mean when it was originally built, I mean, that
was the style of a country house, so we don't
It was probably built with the intention of being defensive,
without really expecting to be defensive. That makes sense.
Speaker 1 (02:55):
Also, what century are we talking about being built.
Speaker 2 (02:57):
In initially, Like its origins are in the third eighteenth century,
so it's really oldso it's twelve hundreds and then it
gets sort of modified and expanded, and we don't have
any visuals of this, so we're not quite sure what
I looked like. So what we see now is you
know what Anne Berlyn might have seen, and also then
how it got sort of a little bit changed in
(03:17):
later history. So in the fifteenth century, particularly in fourteen
sixty two, Jeffrey Berlin purchased it, so he was I
think the great grandfather of Anne Berlin. So he purchased
the estate.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
And what does jeff have a title? What's his job?
Speaker 2 (03:33):
Jeffrey Berlin was actually a sir who was Sir Jeffrey Berlin,
and one of his titles was that he was a
Lord Mayor of London from fourteen fifty seven to fourteen
fifty eight. So one year. It's not that impressive, but
I mean, no, not.
Speaker 1 (03:46):
Going to knock it no better than I've done, Let's
be honest.
Speaker 2 (03:50):
Okay. So yeah, he bought it and at this time
the family name was spelt Bullin so b U L
L E n. It later got changed to look more
French by Anne Berlin.
Speaker 1 (04:01):
There's that, right, We've had this on the podcast before.
There's a lot of people trying to be a bit French.
Oh yeah, was that just like a fashionable.
Speaker 2 (04:08):
Thing to be? It was. It has seen us more
sophisticated because if you think about the Norman Conquest, which
you know, ten sixty six, William the Conqueror came over,
the French came over and took over, and so a
lot of the oldest families in this country have this
French Norman sort of ancestry, and that was seen at
the time as way more sophisticated and high status than
(04:28):
just the normal the Saxon names, and so I feel
like that kind of carried on through the centuries. And
then in the fifteenth century we have Anne Boleyn and
the Tudors, the French. We're quite kind of seen as sophisticated,
and I mean there was a rivalry there forever, so
that plaid into it.
Speaker 1 (04:45):
No, I can see that interesting. I'm trying to think,
what's the sort of standard Saxon name. Is that where
we are like Smith and all that sort of stuff.
Speaker 2 (04:53):
My god, I don't even know any standard Saxon names. Yeah,
but something like that, something really day Saxon. I know that.
Speaker 1 (05:07):
So Jeff is living in the in Jeff Jeff.
Speaker 2 (05:10):
But is it? Yeah, he's living there, and over so
over the sort of the generations of the Berlin family,
they sort of add to the house, they update it,
they make it more fashionable, there's a great hall. They
sort of just make it more modern and more sort
of high status. And so then eventually in about fifteen
(05:30):
oh four slash fifteen oh five, we have Thomas Berlin
inherit it from his father. Thomas Berlin is Ane Berlin's father.
So that's how we're getting it. And so he then
raises his children there, so we have Anne Berlin.
Speaker 1 (05:45):
Yeah, talk us through the Berlin. Imagine them all seeing
able vices. They go to sleep on the stairs, loads
of them.
Speaker 2 (05:50):
There's only three survive. So first of all we have
Thomas Berlin and Thomas Billin marries Lady Elizabeth Howard. So
she's an aristocrat. She was daughter of the Duke of Norfolk,
and so this was a really important match for Thomas Billicks.
Speaker 1 (06:05):
Is he's punching up.
Speaker 2 (06:07):
He is massively because the daughter of a duke is
like as high as you can get unless you marry
into royalty.
Speaker 1 (06:13):
How he done this?
Speaker 2 (06:14):
Then he was a courtier, so he had sort of
worked his way up and he was now working at
the court, so court of Henry the seventh, so Henry
the Yight's father. And then slowly but surely he just
got more and more important positions within that court. So
for example, he was at the wedding of Catherine of
Aragon and Prince Arthur, so he was he was, you know,
right sort of in that circle.
Speaker 1 (06:36):
And has he done this just by being a socialite?
So has he done it by doing good deeds.
Speaker 2 (06:41):
He was very competent.
Speaker 1 (06:42):
He was really guy's legends.
Speaker 2 (06:44):
Yes, so he was on the make and he was
also had the like intelligence and work ethic to get
him there. And so then he marries Lady Elizabeth Howard,
so this is it. This is he's got actual links
now to one of the top dukes in the country,
the Duke of North And so they then have children.
So initially they live at Blickling, which is in Norfolk,
(07:06):
so that's another house that was part of the estate.
And they have a number of children. Some of them
die in infancy. But we have Mary and then George.
We never really know because their birth dates were not recorded,
or if they were recorded, we've lost them, which seems
phenomenal that we don't really know the birth dates off these.
Speaker 1 (07:25):
Children, so they could be any combination.
Speaker 2 (07:28):
Mary seems to always be the eldest, so Mary Berlin
and then we have either it's either George or Anne
or Anna or George.
Speaker 1 (07:36):
I'm going to go, and then George.
Speaker 2 (07:37):
Do you think the boys in the middle.
Speaker 1 (07:39):
I think the boys at the end they kept on
having women. And then when I need the classic.
Speaker 2 (07:43):
Yeah maybe I need a son, Yeah maybe, Okay, So
save three kids. Three kids survive, but remember there are
others that die in infancy or die on their children.
That was very, very common. So we have these three kids,
(08:05):
and their childhood home is Heaver for Castle, which is
why we're talking about that today. Yes, and so they
grew up there. They had a fairly normal education for
high status children, and the girls were taught French and
they were taught languages, and George also had a similar education.
So but he was probably taught more sort of mathematics
(08:28):
and politics as you know, suitable for a male men.
Speaker 1 (08:31):
These are blue subjects and these are pink.
Speaker 2 (08:33):
Subjects sadly, yes, tragically.
Speaker 1 (08:36):
Yeah, but everyone also learns French.
Speaker 2 (08:38):
Yeah, obsess with this, yes exactly. It was really important
because they would have also learned Latin, and often girls
didn't learn Latin. But I think that Anne Bolyn had
a rudimentary sort of knowledge of it.
Speaker 1 (08:50):
So she is.
Speaker 2 (08:52):
Yeah, she was bright for sure, and she she liked
learning and reading and that did get her in trouble
a little later on. But yeah, she was bright. And
then when she when they when they were teenagers. So
when the girls are teenagers, they were sent over to
Europe because by this point Thomas Billin had risen up
the ranks and he was now an ambassador, so he
(09:14):
was sort of representing England.
Speaker 1 (09:17):
He did well, nothing but net the entire going and.
Speaker 2 (09:20):
Going and going, and that's in that way you can
kind of see how they were a gentry family. And
then you have Annblin you can kind of see how
he managed to sort of get his daughter to become
a queen, which is so remarkable.
Speaker 1 (09:32):
Absolutely, although was that totally in agreement with her or
did he was he a bit pushy?
Speaker 2 (09:40):
I think both as well. I think they were. It
was a combination of the two. But we'll get to
that in a bit. Mary and when they were in
their teenagers and they went over to the Netherlands and
then they were at the French.
Speaker 1 (09:52):
Court, is this like a sort of Tudor gap year?
Speaker 2 (09:56):
Yeah, definitely themselves to live full moon party over there
in Oh my god. Yeah. Oh no, it's just like
dancing all the time and sleeping around quite a lot actually,
so yeah, very alarm.
Speaker 1 (10:08):
Would they have slept around a lot?
Speaker 2 (10:09):
Well, they were't supposed to, but there was a rumor
that Mary was the mistress of the French king at
the time, so perhaps you don't know. I know, But
then there's also this other flip of the coin that
maybe her name was being sullied by gossipers. So we
don't know for sure. It's not like they wrote love
letters to each other.
Speaker 1 (10:27):
That's a shame.
Speaker 2 (10:28):
That's tricky.
Speaker 1 (10:29):
Keep the receipts, as they say on social media these days.
But we've got no letters, no proof. I know they're
on this gap year.
Speaker 2 (10:36):
Then, yeah, gap year had a great time. Mary came
back earlier because she was married off. Anne Berlin stayed
out there a bit longer.
Speaker 1 (10:44):
The amount of gap years that happens on. Sorry, got
to go back you're not doing barley mate, get married.
Speaker 2 (10:51):
Got to go back home. And then in fifteen twenty two,
An Berlin was recalled home. She joined the entourage of
Catherine of Arrogant, who was King Henry's first wife.
Speaker 1 (11:01):
Right, and probably because obviously we know what happened. Yeah,
she would have did have got on at the start, though,
are I mean?
Speaker 2 (11:08):
Yeah, why not? She was a lady in waiting, she
was there to serve the queen. And yeah, but at
this time Mary Berlin, so the elder blin girl, was
the mistress of King Henry. The eighth, So that's already
going on. So the Billin's already sort of in Katin's
face a bit, and you know, they're not the greatest
of favors with her.
Speaker 1 (11:30):
Kavin will have definitely known about.
Speaker 2 (11:31):
It, yeah, Perc, but she always knew, but she was
really stoic and always thought it's just another side piece
who will just come and go. And that's what happened
with Mary. Actually, it's rumored that she might have had
two children with Henry the eighth, but he didn't acknowledge them,
so we don't know because Mary was also married, remember,
(11:52):
and yeah, interesting, oh yeah, god.
Speaker 1 (11:54):
So Mary's husband, what happened to him?
Speaker 2 (11:56):
Did he Well, he was around, obviously was around. He
was a courtier, but he was basically you know, if
the king chose your wife to have fun with, you'd
kind of let that be. And I think he got
maybe some land or title, you know, something to buy him.
Speaker 1 (12:11):
This field own shaggy missus yea, oh my god.
Speaker 2 (12:15):
So yeah that happened.
Speaker 1 (12:16):
And would any of these affairs have happened back at
Heaver Castle?
Speaker 2 (12:21):
Right? Well, this is if we're going to skip ahead
a bit, so during this time, so Henry got bored
of Mary as he did, he got bored of.
Speaker 1 (12:28):
Many adhd Henry undiagnosed.
Speaker 2 (12:32):
Just yeah or something else anyway, so he's just he's
spots Amberleyn. So remember Anne has come to England. She's sexy,
she's she's wearing like she's got the new French sort
of fashion going.
Speaker 1 (12:46):
On, ankle bracelets, tattoo, dreadlocks.
Speaker 2 (12:50):
She's super like, she's you know, she's just really catching
people's eye because she's just looking so fresh and different,
and she's witty and exciting and really catches Henry the
yates e and he was completely for her and he
wants her to be his mistress. And she's like no,
and so yeah, yeah she did. She played it really well.
(13:15):
So she said, no, you know, I'm too virtuous. I can't.
I've seen what you've done to my sister. You know,
I don't want to be just you know, chuck to
the side, right. So she was like, no, I'm not
going to do that. So she actually goes back to
Heaver Castle to sort of cool it, you know, so
to put Henry off. Put Henry off, I don't know exactly,
(13:38):
and hen we have Henry the It's love letters survive
and he got the receipts and six of them were
sent to her when she was at Heaver Castle, so
you know he really was trying to get to her.
Speaker 1 (13:52):
Can we have a flavor of the context of these
love letters?
Speaker 2 (13:55):
He calls her boobs pretty pretty duckies, Henry.
Speaker 1 (14:03):
I know you're sure duck is not just a predictive
text correction.
Speaker 2 (14:09):
Can you imagine?
Speaker 1 (14:11):
Well, I think it's about ducking time we hear one
of these love letters, don't you.
Speaker 2 (14:15):
Okay, So for example, I'm just going to read like
the start of this letter too. It's called it says,
my mistress and friend, my heart and eyes, surrender ourselves
into your hands, beseeching you to hold us commended to
your favor, and that by absence your affection to us
may not be lessened. So you know, it's very tudor,
very very.
Speaker 1 (14:33):
Starts out very eloquently.
Speaker 2 (14:34):
Very old the English. But he calls it to my mistress,
which is you know, because she was like Mistress Berlin.
Speaker 1 (14:40):
Mistress isn't like an insult, No.
Speaker 2 (14:43):
It's just a it's like madam, you know, sir, madam madam. Okay.
This is the ending of one of Henry the Yates
Love letters to Anne Boleyn.
Speaker 1 (14:55):
There's a pain in my head.
Speaker 3 (14:58):
Wishing myself Ashley an evening in my sweetheart's arms. Whose
pretty duckies I trust shortly to kiss? Written by the
hand of him that was is and shall be yours
by his own will.
Speaker 1 (15:18):
He Charles makes it sound official. I think very much
for your in this sexual encounter. It's h.
Speaker 2 (15:30):
Yeah, so there you get, you know, hot and heavy stuff.
Speaker 1 (15:32):
Right, that's pretty raw, she said, it's very yeah, that's.
Speaker 2 (15:36):
And yet she still said, no, can you believes like, nah,
I want a ring on it.
Speaker 1 (15:42):
Yeah, I want to ring on it. Yeah, these duckies
are gonna waddle off.
Speaker 2 (15:46):
And so that's what happens. You know. He actually pushed
away An Boleyn, who was so popular, like she was
the Queen of hearts.
Speaker 1 (15:53):
So she's now just still she still is in heaver
Castle away all these Yes, exactly, she did anything there.
Speaker 2 (16:00):
They entertained a lot, so they would have parties there,
guests would come. They were, you know, the the blinds
were on the make, remember as a whole family. Now
and now that she had caught the attention of the king,
they had loads of guests coming over seeking favor seeing
if she could, you know, talk to the king on
their behalf.
Speaker 1 (16:16):
Don't imagine her and her dad Thomas sit down and
he goes, what what do you mean you.
Speaker 2 (16:21):
Said, no, yes, no, I think so they were worried. Yeah,
well not necessarily, that's what we're doing this for. And
also don't forget her uncle, the Duke of Norfolk, so
her mother's brother. He was very pushy. He was like,
you need to really get in there with the king.
He was not the nicest man. So he also pushed
(16:43):
later on another of his nieces, which was Katherine Howard
fourth wife. Yeah wife, sorry, So, both both of whom
were so heava. They also so they had lots of land.
They love to go hunting, and Henry the loved that too.
Anne Berlin was a really good horsewoman, so they did
(17:03):
this a lot, and you know, they were just like
young and fun basically. Catherine of Arrogant was also, you know,
she was great, but she was much more stoic and
sort of queenly I think you know she was. She
took her role very seriously. A bit older than Henry, yeah,
not that much older, but yeah, amberleyn was young and
fun and sexy.
Speaker 1 (17:23):
She was older than Henry.
Speaker 2 (17:24):
Yeah, really a little bit. Yeah, because because she yeah,
because she wasn't literially married to Arthur, Henry's brother, remember,
of course, and they were a similar age. Henry was
the younger sibling. Henry wasn't meant to be king, but
then his brother died, so he became the and king.
Speaker 1 (17:39):
I see, it's all very incessive, it is. If this
was the it'd only be like a mile rages they
were standing, woun't it.
Speaker 2 (17:48):
It's crazy, But at least siblings weren't marrying or uncles
and nieces. We get that with the Habsburgs and on
the continent a lot.
Speaker 1 (17:55):
We've got to find out what is the bit that
finally makes her crumble and going well.
Speaker 2 (18:01):
Henry the eighth promises that they'll get married, and that's
when he starts to.
Speaker 1 (18:06):
Anything about Henry. He's a man who keeps his.
Speaker 2 (18:08):
Words exactly and so then but when he actually starts
to break away from the Church of Rome and establish
the Church of England, of course, so that was a
pretty good indication that he meant business. And also remember
he really wanted a boy, he needed an there, so
even if he did love Amberleyn, he was driven to
get that son, like he was stressed, so that was
(18:31):
what was driving it, as well as his love, you know.
And so then he manages to break away from the
Church of Rome and establish his own church in England,
where he becomes the supreme head. And then in fifteen
thirty three they secretly marry and some people think had
they done the deed? You know, was she already pregnant?
Do we need to hurry up and get this marriage done?
Speaker 1 (18:52):
Why secretly you've just changed the entirely. Why would you
then go don't tell anyone the way?
Speaker 2 (18:58):
Actually it was weird. I think the pressure. They're like,
let's just do it, you know whatever, let's get on
with it. It was quite a quiet small of her,
which is again surprising. But Catherine was still alive, Catherine
of Arragon, didn't.
Speaker 1 (19:11):
He stand off and gave her a bunch of land
and went sorry.
Speaker 2 (19:15):
Not even that he pretty much he treated her really
badly in the end, like he shoved her out of
the palaces. He wanted her and her daughter to sign
the Act of Succession, which meant that they acknowledged the
new queen, you know, Amberleyn and whatever child they had
as the new heir so pushing Mary out.
Speaker 1 (19:34):
Jesus Christ and obviously he had some breakups in my time.
Speaker 2 (19:37):
But.
Speaker 1 (19:39):
Asked Harsh to sign a contracted succession for the new
boyfriend of my ex k coat.
Speaker 3 (19:45):
It's all mine now I know.
Speaker 2 (19:47):
And then Henry also didn't allow Mary, his daughter to
see her mother, so Catin of Arrogant and Mary Tudor
went alout to see each other, which is really cool,
you know, just to make them sign this document. So
he was a bit of an artist mildly, yes. So anyway,
he marries Amberleyn and then she gets pregnant and everybody
would joy says like, oh my god, this is what
(20:08):
it's all for. She's pregnant yea yeah, and then it's
a girl. So it was bad. And so the Blin family,
you can imagine the Christmas that Heaver going, ah, you know,
stressing out because oh my god, it's a girl.
Speaker 1 (20:24):
Yeah. I can imagine the amount of conversations around that
dinner table. I know, I'd love to have seen a
Christmas there. Did Henry ever go and visit He.
Speaker 2 (20:35):
Must have been, but we don't know every instance. I'm
sure he did, but I haven't got documentary pre laws yeah, exactly,
I know, because that's the thing, right, and then becomes
she's you know, she's crowned queen, and yeah, the Blins
have risen up to the top. They're like the premiere
family now. Yeah, so it's huge, and they get given titles.
(20:57):
I think he becomes I'm gonna check it. So Thomas
Billin becomes an earl and so that's you know.
Speaker 1 (21:03):
Huge, that is huge.
Speaker 2 (21:05):
It's not a duke old is not too bad. So
as a result, because you have that title, so he
was given an eldom and then a courtesy title was
given to George Billin. So a curtacy title means you
don't actually have any lands or anything with it. It's
just that they kind of always come into So if
you are given an ildo, you normally get a sort
of a lesser title for the heir of that family.
(21:27):
And so he also got titled as well.
Speaker 1 (21:30):
So George got a title without any land or extra benefits,
not even two the one cinema tickets, what a joke.
Might as well have just made him a jester. Actually,
do they have a gesture at Heaver Castle?
Speaker 2 (21:42):
Not necessarily there, it's too small a place, but they
could have hired in you know, entertainment for parties and
balls and that kind of thing. Yeah, for sure, I'm.
Speaker 1 (21:51):
Thinking the sort of scope of staff that are Heaver Castle. Yeah, massive, massive,
down to an abbey level or so.
Speaker 2 (22:02):
Tudor times are slightly different, of.
Speaker 1 (22:03):
Course because of jumping two these centuries.
Speaker 2 (22:05):
Yeah, chronological, but yeah, they would have had a huge
retinue of staff. And back then, you know, labor was cheap,
so they probably would have had way more just to
look impressive, and the kitchens would have been vast, like
if you've ever been to Hampton Court Palace that the
Tudor kitchens, they're huge because they have to be producing
so much food for feasts and parties something. So yeah, no,
(22:27):
they would have had a lot of staff.
Speaker 1 (22:30):
So the villains obviously were known for throwing their parties.
Speaker 2 (22:34):
Well I imagine, so as one of the big families,
why wouldn't they Do.
Speaker 1 (22:38):
They have any Do you have any record of what
the best party was?
Speaker 2 (22:42):
The eight three of the best parties?
Speaker 1 (22:45):
Yeah, I imagine he was. I imagine him with the
eighth with a sort of a wild boar.
Speaker 2 (22:50):
During Henry Date's reign, turkeys came into sort of fashion
to be eaten during Christmas time.
Speaker 1 (22:56):
Yeah, how did that happen?
Speaker 2 (22:57):
Because they came over from the New World, you know,
because we were all.
Speaker 1 (23:01):
That world turkey. Sound I don't know that sounds funny today,
a new World turkey.
Speaker 2 (23:06):
So yeah, and he basically they started to be reared
and domesticated, so in Norfolk and East Anglia, and then
they were sort of be they were so big, so
they were seen as quite a prestigious burd to eat
and boor as well was another thing for Christmas, so
all of these, Yeah.
Speaker 1 (23:24):
It was I heard this thing. I don't know if
you can confirm or deny about hunting boar. So you
know how nowadays people say that fox hunting is like
the upper class sport. Yeah, but actually back in the day,
bore the upper class and fox hunting was the lower class.
But then all the boors got taught, so they hadn't
got an option to do fox hunting.
Speaker 2 (23:44):
Yeah, that's very true. And also they would hunt deer
as well of.
Speaker 1 (23:48):
Course, So is there hunting grounds near Heaver Castle?
Speaker 2 (23:51):
Yeah there would have been, absolutely, because you know, Henry
loved it, so why not. And also he had you know,
Richmond Park was a hunting state like there was loser
hunting estates.
Speaker 1 (24:13):
So Anne being born and raised in this castle, when
do you think was the last time she frequented it?
Speaker 2 (24:21):
Well, some people say that she's never actually left because
there's apparently a ghost that has seen at Christmas time.
Speaker 1 (24:28):
At Christmas time specifically.
Speaker 2 (24:29):
Apparently, so yeah, walking across the bridge, who knew? Or
across the bridge, well, not a bridge across the river Eden,
which is sort of flows nearby. And also sometimes she's
spotted around and about. We should go at that one.
But you know what, we haven't actually talked about what
happened to Anne, like her actual demise. That's pretty sad, right, tragic.
We can't do this whole build up and not mention her.
Speaker 1 (24:50):
Yes, that's a good point because if you actually don't
know what happened to amberleyn and if you don't sorry
about the ghost stuff because spoiler alert, we should actually
probably tell people what happened to it and how Yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:00):
Let's do that sounds sensible, doesn't it. Okay, So we
left her when she was she had a girl right
nightmare disappointment, but she actually like to be a fantastic
queen anyway, that's by the bye. So Anne Boleyn gets
pregnant again. Who everybody's so excited this time is going
to be a boy. It's going to be then. Anyway,
(25:21):
Henry the Eighth is jousting and he gets knocked off
his horse and he's actually unconscious for more than an hour.
People think he's dead, and so Anne Berlin apparently this
is a stressful time because he's not coming around, he's
knocked out cold. What happens to her? What happened? What
happens to the Ballins? And she miscarries after this. We
(25:43):
don't know whether it's triggered by that. And it was
a boy?
Speaker 1 (25:46):
No, no, no.
Speaker 2 (25:48):
I know, and who was it? I don't know that
they didn't die dead.
Speaker 1 (25:56):
I know you're not surviving, mate, you've knocked off the
king and cause them to have a miscarriage.
Speaker 2 (26:02):
But can you imagine the terror that she must have felt,
Like there's pressure, like it's amazing that she conceived and
got pregnant anyway, because she's so stressed and the trauma,
and she knows what happens if she doesn't give a
boy this time it's a boy, it's dead and oh
my god. Henry immediately calls on her. He just goes
off her completely. So Anne Boleyn is now it is over. Essentially.
(26:23):
She tries to, you know, convince the king we can
still have another kid, but he's already spotted his next wife,
Jane Seymour, and he's already sort of enamored by Jane,
and he just doesn't really care about Amberleyn anymore. And
then this is where all of Anne Berlyn's enemies and
attractors start to circulate, these rumors that she's having you know,
(26:45):
she's having incest your relations with her brother, and that
she's flirting with other.
Speaker 1 (26:50):
Men and so where was the brother at this point?
What I know going on in London?
Speaker 2 (26:59):
Oh god, nightmare. Yeah, but all of a sudden it
just this is by the way, the year is fifteen
thirty six, dramatic year, and poor old everything had been
going well. She'd only been queen for three years, right,
and now it's over pretty much. She's then arrested. She's
taken to the Tower of.
Speaker 1 (27:16):
London and part of the the gossip was the six
finger things where that comes from, Oh she's a witch.
Speaker 2 (27:24):
Exactly, and that somehow she'd cause the death of her
baby and that kind of thing, you know, like people
were really cruel to her. They wanted her taken down,
and a lot of the men didn't like that she
or she had had such a hold on Henry, you know,
as a woman, they didn't like that. They wanted I
think she hadn't had a son, so it was all
spiraling out of control.
Speaker 1 (27:42):
Does this then go back to it obviously ends that
she gets beheaded, yes, yeah, on the gallows. And does
her death then affect the whole family there for their pace?
Speaker 2 (27:56):
Yeah, exactly. So basically what happens is she's beheaded. The
Blin are then in disgrace. So George Berlin, the brother,
is also executed because remember he's found guilty of having
sex with his sister, which is nuts right, not true,
but it was just it was like a done deal,
you know, like Henry wanted an the way he wanted
(28:18):
to marry Jane and say, this is all sort of
concocted to happen. So, yeah, the family's in disgrace. They
leave court, they're sort of banished for a bit, they
go they retire back to Heaver Castle. Can you imagine
like three years ago, the glory days were happening, and
I don't think they could even believe it.
Speaker 1 (28:33):
Mary, and then I sat on the Christmas table with
a small pigeon. Yeahs, we had it all and.
Speaker 2 (28:41):
Lost two children right in one go. So they have
one child left, Mary and Mary was sort of estranged
from her family so she wasn't there, so it was
just Thomas and Elizabeth billyin their house. I don't know.
Elizabeth never really recovered. She died a few years later.
Speaker 1 (28:56):
Yeah, I'm not surprised. I think my mum would probably.
Speaker 2 (28:59):
Yeah, exactly. And then Tom Thomas Billin was like, oh,
I'll remarry like a Nutter, but basically.
Speaker 1 (29:07):
Sure.
Speaker 2 (29:09):
Then he died the year later. That's the end, right,
they don't have an air so they kind of lose
the house, right they don't then, so then it goes
to the crown and it is given to Anne of Cleaves,
who is Henry's fourth wife, the one that he divorces,
you know, the one that he thought was too ugly
(29:31):
to you know, do it with. Well, partly, yeah, because
Hanns Holbein went over to Cleaves painted her. She he
painted her beautifully.
Speaker 1 (29:41):
Then.
Speaker 2 (29:43):
No, but the thing is it's not true like by
a contemporary account she was actually good looking. She was
not as ugly as everybody says.
Speaker 1 (29:50):
No, that was she as good looking as Ambuley.
Speaker 2 (29:51):
No, definitely, or Jane you know, Jane Seymour. And also
you know Henry. Henry was old and ugly at this time,
was getting really fat. But he had the audacity to
say gangrenous, Yeah, ulcerated leg.
Speaker 1 (30:05):
Noise, not so good yourself, Maybe just be happy.
Speaker 2 (30:08):
And he said he couldn't consummate it with Anne of Cleaves.
I can't do the deed, and so yeah, he divorced her.
Speaker 1 (30:15):
That sounds like an excuse for his impotency, That's what
I reckon.
Speaker 2 (30:19):
So yeah, Interestingly he gives her Heava as one of
her palaces. So she did really well, Okay she did.
Speaker 1 (30:26):
He is my ex wife who I had head chopped, toss.
Speaker 2 (30:29):
Old have this one nice?
Speaker 1 (30:32):
Sure that's so she then okay, so then it passes.
Speaker 2 (30:36):
To her, Yes, for her lifetime and she lived there
until her death.
Speaker 1 (30:45):
Thank you Amy so much. You've been incredibly visceral in
your descriptions of heaver Castle and knowledgeable in what happened there.
Where Can people find you on social media and stuff?
They want to hear more about you?
Speaker 2 (30:57):
Yeah? On TikTok gime history with history.
Speaker 1 (31:00):
With Amy are hearing that absolutely? Thank you very much,
nice as well. Thank you poor old an Berlin. She
deserved better than a fat man with galt who spreads
lives to get his own way. It's not much to
ask for, is it. Although, to be fair with the
state of our leader today, I'm not sure she'd be
able to do much better in this century. That's all
we've got time for this week. Until next time, keep
(31:21):
the receipts, kiss your pretty duckies, and mind your manner.
Thanks for listening to Bad Manners. If you like the pod,
please share it with your friends, Rate it on the
iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts,
Leave a review, and make sure you spill the tea
on any of your favorite Bad Manners that we could
feature in future episodes. This podcast was produced by Asamei
(31:44):
Studios for iHeartRadio. It was hosted by me Tom Horton.
It was produced by William Lensky, Rebecca Rappaport, and Chris Ataway.
It was executive produced by Face Steur and Zad Rogers.
Our production manager is Caitlin Paramore and our production coordinator
is Bellisolade.
Today we are going to explore the rich and whimsical
history of heaver Castle in Kent, England. Hever Castle has
a rich and varied history, from its origins as a
country house in the thirteenth century to its transformation into
a grand mansion in the twentieth century. Amongst its notable
residents was the Berlin family, who lived at Hever Castle
(00:22):
in the sixteenth century and whose daughter Anne became the
second wife of King Henry the eighth. She'll be playing
a big part in this story. Joining us as our
expert is Dr Amy Boyington, as we delve into the
castle's past and discover the stories of the people who
lived and worked there, the events that shaped its history,
(00:44):
and the unique features that make heaver Castle one of
England's most beloved historic parks. Amy, very nice you to
join us. How are you'd say? Would like to introduce yourself?
Speaker 2 (01:02):
Hi? Yeah, I'm very well. I'm Dr Amy Boyington. I'm
a historian. I'm a senior properties historian at English Heritage,
which is a charity that owns over four hundred historic
buildings in the UK. It's a fantastic place. Do check
it out. And yeah, outside of that, I do lots
of tiktoks about history. Say, if you're on that platform,
(01:23):
do you check it out?
Speaker 1 (01:24):
I sadly haven't had the good fortune to visit Hever
Castle yet, So could you just paint me a picture
of what I'm seeing if I was there right now
looking at it. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:36):
So Hever Castle is in Kent, which is a very
beautiful part of England, and imagine we're standing in front
of it right now. It's sort of a rectangular building.
It looks like a castle, but it doesn't have any
round turrets. It's a rectangular building surrounded by a rectangular moat,
so a ditch with water. And then in the middle,
if we're looking up at the center, there's a bridge.
(01:59):
It probably used to be a draw bridge, but now
it's just a permanent structure. Across the bridge, you go
through the gatehouse and then you come into this small
little courtyard and it seems it's quite cozy because it
wasn't the largest building. It was kind of domestic and homely,
but very impressive at the same time. And then if
you look up around all of the sides you can
see sort of timber framed buildings, so that means, you know,
(02:20):
like black and white sort of structures. It's not stone
on the interior because that was a sort of cheaper
way of building. But yes, you get the feel like
you're really stepping back in time.
Speaker 1 (02:30):
Like an armadillo, like an armored on the outside. Soft.
Speaker 2 (02:34):
Yeah, okay, we'll go with that.
Speaker 1 (02:37):
Was there a reason behind that design? I mean, did
it have any military intentions?
Speaker 2 (02:42):
I mean when it was originally built, I mean, that
was the style of a country house, so we don't
It was probably built with the intention of being defensive,
without really expecting to be defensive. That makes sense.
Speaker 1 (02:55):
Also, what century are we talking about being built.
Speaker 2 (02:57):
In initially, Like its origins are in the third eighteenth century,
so it's really oldso it's twelve hundreds and then it
gets sort of modified and expanded, and we don't have
any visuals of this, so we're not quite sure what
I looked like. So what we see now is you
know what Anne Berlyn might have seen, and also then
how it got sort of a little bit changed in
(03:17):
later history. So in the fifteenth century, particularly in fourteen
sixty two, Jeffrey Berlin purchased it, so he was I
think the great grandfather of Anne Berlin. So he purchased
the estate.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
And what does jeff have a title? What's his job?
Speaker 2 (03:33):
Jeffrey Berlin was actually a sir who was Sir Jeffrey Berlin,
and one of his titles was that he was a
Lord Mayor of London from fourteen fifty seven to fourteen
fifty eight. So one year. It's not that impressive, but
I mean, no, not.
Speaker 1 (03:46):
Going to knock it no better than I've done, Let's
be honest.
Speaker 2 (03:50):
Okay. So yeah, he bought it and at this time
the family name was spelt Bullin so b U L
L E n. It later got changed to look more
French by Anne Berlin.
Speaker 1 (04:01):
There's that, right, We've had this on the podcast before.
There's a lot of people trying to be a bit French.
Oh yeah, was that just like a fashionable.
Speaker 2 (04:08):
Thing to be? It was. It has seen us more
sophisticated because if you think about the Norman Conquest, which
you know, ten sixty six, William the Conqueror came over,
the French came over and took over, and so a
lot of the oldest families in this country have this
French Norman sort of ancestry, and that was seen at
the time as way more sophisticated and high status than
(04:28):
just the normal the Saxon names, and so I feel
like that kind of carried on through the centuries. And
then in the fifteenth century we have Anne Boleyn and
the Tudors, the French. We're quite kind of seen as sophisticated,
and I mean there was a rivalry there forever, so
that plaid into it.
Speaker 1 (04:45):
No, I can see that interesting. I'm trying to think,
what's the sort of standard Saxon name. Is that where
we are like Smith and all that sort of stuff.
Speaker 2 (04:53):
My god, I don't even know any standard Saxon names. Yeah,
but something like that, something really day Saxon. I know that.
Speaker 1 (05:07):
So Jeff is living in the in Jeff Jeff.
Speaker 2 (05:10):
But is it? Yeah, he's living there, and over so
over the sort of the generations of the Berlin family,
they sort of add to the house, they update it,
they make it more fashionable, there's a great hall. They
sort of just make it more modern and more sort
of high status. And so then eventually in about fifteen
(05:30):
oh four slash fifteen oh five, we have Thomas Berlin
inherit it from his father. Thomas Berlin is Ane Berlin's father.
So that's how we're getting it. And so he then
raises his children there, so we have Anne Berlin.
Speaker 1 (05:45):
Yeah, talk us through the Berlin. Imagine them all seeing
able vices. They go to sleep on the stairs, loads
of them.
Speaker 2 (05:50):
There's only three survive. So first of all we have
Thomas Berlin and Thomas Billin marries Lady Elizabeth Howard. So
she's an aristocrat. She was daughter of the Duke of Norfolk,
and so this was a really important match for Thomas Billicks.
Speaker 1 (06:05):
Is he's punching up.
Speaker 2 (06:07):
He is massively because the daughter of a duke is
like as high as you can get unless you marry
into royalty.
Speaker 1 (06:13):
How he done this?
Speaker 2 (06:14):
Then he was a courtier, so he had sort of
worked his way up and he was now working at
the court, so court of Henry the seventh, so Henry
the Yight's father. And then slowly but surely he just
got more and more important positions within that court. So
for example, he was at the wedding of Catherine of
Aragon and Prince Arthur, so he was he was, you know,
right sort of in that circle.
Speaker 1 (06:36):
And has he done this just by being a socialite?
So has he done it by doing good deeds.
Speaker 2 (06:41):
He was very competent.
Speaker 1 (06:42):
He was really guy's legends.
Speaker 2 (06:44):
Yes, so he was on the make and he was
also had the like intelligence and work ethic to get
him there. And so then he marries Lady Elizabeth Howard,
so this is it. This is he's got actual links
now to one of the top dukes in the country,
the Duke of North And so they then have children.
So initially they live at Blickling, which is in Norfolk,
(07:06):
so that's another house that was part of the estate.
And they have a number of children. Some of them
die in infancy. But we have Mary and then George.
We never really know because their birth dates were not recorded,
or if they were recorded, we've lost them, which seems
phenomenal that we don't really know the birth dates off these.
Speaker 1 (07:25):
Children, so they could be any combination.
Speaker 2 (07:28):
Mary seems to always be the eldest, so Mary Berlin
and then we have either it's either George or Anne
or Anna or George.
Speaker 1 (07:36):
I'm going to go, and then George.
Speaker 2 (07:37):
Do you think the boys in the middle.
Speaker 1 (07:39):
I think the boys at the end they kept on
having women. And then when I need the classic.
Speaker 2 (07:43):
Yeah maybe I need a son, Yeah maybe, Okay, So
save three kids. Three kids survive, but remember there are
others that die in infancy or die on their children.
That was very, very common. So we have these three kids,
(08:05):
and their childhood home is Heaver for Castle, which is
why we're talking about that today. Yes, and so they
grew up there. They had a fairly normal education for
high status children, and the girls were taught French and
they were taught languages, and George also had a similar education.
So but he was probably taught more sort of mathematics
(08:28):
and politics as you know, suitable for a male men.
Speaker 1 (08:31):
These are blue subjects and these are pink.
Speaker 2 (08:33):
Subjects sadly, yes, tragically.
Speaker 1 (08:36):
Yeah, but everyone also learns French.
Speaker 2 (08:38):
Yeah, obsess with this, yes exactly. It was really important
because they would have also learned Latin, and often girls
didn't learn Latin. But I think that Anne Bolyn had
a rudimentary sort of knowledge of it.
Speaker 1 (08:50):
So she is.
Speaker 2 (08:52):
Yeah, she was bright for sure, and she she liked
learning and reading and that did get her in trouble
a little later on. But yeah, she was bright. And
then when she when they when they were teenagers. So
when the girls are teenagers, they were sent over to
Europe because by this point Thomas Billin had risen up
the ranks and he was now an ambassador, so he
(09:14):
was sort of representing England.
Speaker 1 (09:17):
He did well, nothing but net the entire going and.
Speaker 2 (09:20):
Going and going, and that's in that way you can
kind of see how they were a gentry family. And
then you have Annblin you can kind of see how
he managed to sort of get his daughter to become
a queen, which is so remarkable.
Speaker 1 (09:32):
Absolutely, although was that totally in agreement with her or
did he was he a bit pushy?
Speaker 2 (09:40):
I think both as well. I think they were. It
was a combination of the two. But we'll get to
that in a bit. Mary and when they were in
their teenagers and they went over to the Netherlands and
then they were at the French.
Speaker 1 (09:52):
Court, is this like a sort of Tudor gap year?
Speaker 2 (09:56):
Yeah, definitely themselves to live full moon party over there
in Oh my god. Yeah. Oh no, it's just like
dancing all the time and sleeping around quite a lot actually,
so yeah, very alarm.
Speaker 1 (10:08):
Would they have slept around a lot?
Speaker 2 (10:09):
Well, they were't supposed to, but there was a rumor
that Mary was the mistress of the French king at
the time, so perhaps you don't know. I know, But
then there's also this other flip of the coin that
maybe her name was being sullied by gossipers. So we
don't know for sure. It's not like they wrote love
letters to each other.
Speaker 1 (10:27):
That's a shame.
Speaker 2 (10:28):
That's tricky.
Speaker 1 (10:29):
Keep the receipts, as they say on social media these days.
But we've got no letters, no proof. I know they're
on this gap year.
Speaker 2 (10:36):
Then, yeah, gap year had a great time. Mary came
back earlier because she was married off. Anne Berlin stayed
out there a bit longer.
Speaker 1 (10:44):
The amount of gap years that happens on. Sorry, got
to go back you're not doing barley mate, get married.
Speaker 2 (10:51):
Got to go back home. And then in fifteen twenty two,
An Berlin was recalled home. She joined the entourage of
Catherine of Arrogant, who was King Henry's first wife.
Speaker 1 (11:01):
Right, and probably because obviously we know what happened. Yeah,
she would have did have got on at the start, though,
are I mean?
Speaker 2 (11:08):
Yeah, why not? She was a lady in waiting, she
was there to serve the queen. And yeah, but at
this time Mary Berlin, so the elder blin girl, was
the mistress of King Henry. The eighth, So that's already
going on. So the Billin's already sort of in Katin's
face a bit, and you know, they're not the greatest
of favors with her.
Speaker 1 (11:30):
Kavin will have definitely known about.
Speaker 2 (11:31):
It, yeah, Perc, but she always knew, but she was
really stoic and always thought it's just another side piece
who will just come and go. And that's what happened
with Mary. Actually, it's rumored that she might have had
two children with Henry the eighth, but he didn't acknowledge them,
so we don't know because Mary was also married, remember,
(11:52):
and yeah, interesting, oh yeah, god.
Speaker 1 (11:54):
So Mary's husband, what happened to him?
Speaker 2 (11:56):
Did he Well, he was around, obviously was around. He
was a courtier, but he was basically you know, if
the king chose your wife to have fun with, you'd
kind of let that be. And I think he got
maybe some land or title, you know, something to buy him.
Speaker 1 (12:11):
This field own shaggy missus yea, oh my god.
Speaker 2 (12:15):
So yeah that happened.
Speaker 1 (12:16):
And would any of these affairs have happened back at
Heaver Castle?
Speaker 2 (12:21):
Right? Well, this is if we're going to skip ahead
a bit, so during this time, so Henry got bored
of Mary as he did, he got bored of.
Speaker 1 (12:28):
Many adhd Henry undiagnosed.
Speaker 2 (12:32):
Just yeah or something else anyway, so he's just he's
spots Amberleyn. So remember Anne has come to England. She's sexy,
she's she's wearing like she's got the new French sort
of fashion going.
Speaker 1 (12:46):
On, ankle bracelets, tattoo, dreadlocks.
Speaker 2 (12:50):
She's super like, she's you know, she's just really catching
people's eye because she's just looking so fresh and different,
and she's witty and exciting and really catches Henry the
yates e and he was completely for her and he
wants her to be his mistress. And she's like no,
and so yeah, yeah she did. She played it really well.
(13:15):
So she said, no, you know, I'm too virtuous. I can't.
I've seen what you've done to my sister. You know,
I don't want to be just you know, chuck to
the side, right. So she was like, no, I'm not
going to do that. So she actually goes back to
Heaver Castle to sort of cool it, you know, so
to put Henry off. Put Henry off, I don't know exactly,
(13:38):
and hen we have Henry the It's love letters survive
and he got the receipts and six of them were
sent to her when she was at Heaver Castle, so
you know he really was trying to get to her.
Speaker 1 (13:52):
Can we have a flavor of the context of these
love letters?
Speaker 2 (13:55):
He calls her boobs pretty pretty duckies, Henry.
Speaker 1 (14:03):
I know you're sure duck is not just a predictive
text correction.
Speaker 2 (14:09):
Can you imagine?
Speaker 1 (14:11):
Well, I think it's about ducking time we hear one
of these love letters, don't you.
Speaker 2 (14:15):
Okay, So for example, I'm just going to read like
the start of this letter too. It's called it says,
my mistress and friend, my heart and eyes, surrender ourselves
into your hands, beseeching you to hold us commended to
your favor, and that by absence your affection to us
may not be lessened. So you know, it's very tudor,
very very.
Speaker 1 (14:33):
Starts out very eloquently.
Speaker 2 (14:34):
Very old the English. But he calls it to my mistress,
which is you know, because she was like Mistress Berlin.
Speaker 1 (14:40):
Mistress isn't like an insult, No.
Speaker 2 (14:43):
It's just a it's like madam, you know, sir, madam madam. Okay.
This is the ending of one of Henry the Yates
Love letters to Anne Boleyn.
Speaker 1 (14:55):
There's a pain in my head.
Speaker 3 (14:58):
Wishing myself Ashley an evening in my sweetheart's arms. Whose
pretty duckies I trust shortly to kiss? Written by the
hand of him that was is and shall be yours
by his own will.
Speaker 1 (15:18):
He Charles makes it sound official. I think very much
for your in this sexual encounter. It's h.
Speaker 2 (15:30):
Yeah, so there you get, you know, hot and heavy stuff.
Speaker 1 (15:32):
Right, that's pretty raw, she said, it's very yeah, that's.
Speaker 2 (15:36):
And yet she still said, no, can you believes like, nah,
I want a ring on it.
Speaker 1 (15:42):
Yeah, I want to ring on it. Yeah, these duckies
are gonna waddle off.
Speaker 2 (15:46):
And so that's what happens. You know. He actually pushed
away An Boleyn, who was so popular, like she was
the Queen of hearts.
Speaker 1 (15:53):
So she's now just still she still is in heaver
Castle away all these Yes, exactly, she did anything there.
Speaker 2 (16:00):
They entertained a lot, so they would have parties there,
guests would come. They were, you know, the the blinds
were on the make, remember as a whole family. Now
and now that she had caught the attention of the king,
they had loads of guests coming over seeking favor seeing
if she could, you know, talk to the king on
their behalf.
Speaker 1 (16:16):
Don't imagine her and her dad Thomas sit down and
he goes, what what do you mean you.
Speaker 2 (16:21):
Said, no, yes, no, I think so they were worried. Yeah,
well not necessarily, that's what we're doing this for. And
also don't forget her uncle, the Duke of Norfolk, so
her mother's brother. He was very pushy. He was like,
you need to really get in there with the king.
He was not the nicest man. So he also pushed
(16:43):
later on another of his nieces, which was Katherine Howard
fourth wife. Yeah wife, sorry, So, both both of whom
were so heava. They also so they had lots of land.
They love to go hunting, and Henry the loved that too.
Anne Berlin was a really good horsewoman, so they did
(17:03):
this a lot, and you know, they were just like
young and fun basically. Catherine of Arrogant was also, you know,
she was great, but she was much more stoic and
sort of queenly I think you know she was. She
took her role very seriously. A bit older than Henry, yeah,
not that much older, but yeah, amberleyn was young and
fun and sexy.
Speaker 1 (17:23):
She was older than Henry.
Speaker 2 (17:24):
Yeah, really a little bit. Yeah, because because she yeah,
because she wasn't literially married to Arthur, Henry's brother, remember,
of course, and they were a similar age. Henry was
the younger sibling. Henry wasn't meant to be king, but
then his brother died, so he became the and king.
Speaker 1 (17:39):
I see, it's all very incessive, it is. If this
was the it'd only be like a mile rages they
were standing, woun't it.
Speaker 2 (17:48):
It's crazy, But at least siblings weren't marrying or uncles
and nieces. We get that with the Habsburgs and on
the continent a lot.
Speaker 1 (17:55):
We've got to find out what is the bit that
finally makes her crumble and going well.
Speaker 2 (18:01):
Henry the eighth promises that they'll get married, and that's
when he starts to.
Speaker 1 (18:06):
Anything about Henry. He's a man who keeps his.
Speaker 2 (18:08):
Words exactly and so then but when he actually starts
to break away from the Church of Rome and establish
the Church of England, of course, so that was a
pretty good indication that he meant business. And also remember
he really wanted a boy, he needed an there, so
even if he did love Amberleyn, he was driven to
get that son, like he was stressed, so that was
(18:31):
what was driving it, as well as his love, you know.
And so then he manages to break away from the
Church of Rome and establish his own church in England,
where he becomes the supreme head. And then in fifteen
thirty three they secretly marry and some people think had
they done the deed? You know, was she already pregnant?
Do we need to hurry up and get this marriage done?
Speaker 1 (18:52):
Why secretly you've just changed the entirely. Why would you
then go don't tell anyone the way?
Speaker 2 (18:58):
Actually it was weird. I think the pressure. They're like,
let's just do it, you know whatever, let's get on
with it. It was quite a quiet small of her,
which is again surprising. But Catherine was still alive, Catherine
of Arragon, didn't.
Speaker 1 (19:11):
He stand off and gave her a bunch of land
and went sorry.
Speaker 2 (19:15):
Not even that he pretty much he treated her really
badly in the end, like he shoved her out of
the palaces. He wanted her and her daughter to sign
the Act of Succession, which meant that they acknowledged the
new queen, you know, Amberleyn and whatever child they had
as the new heir so pushing Mary out.
Speaker 1 (19:34):
Jesus Christ and obviously he had some breakups in my time.
Speaker 2 (19:37):
But.
Speaker 1 (19:39):
Asked Harsh to sign a contracted succession for the new
boyfriend of my ex k coat.
Speaker 3 (19:45):
It's all mine now I know.
Speaker 2 (19:47):
And then Henry also didn't allow Mary, his daughter to
see her mother, so Catin of Arrogant and Mary Tudor
went alout to see each other, which is really cool,
you know, just to make them sign this document. So
he was a bit of an artist mildly, yes. So anyway,
he marries Amberleyn and then she gets pregnant and everybody
would joy says like, oh my god, this is what
(20:08):
it's all for. She's pregnant yea yeah, and then it's
a girl. So it was bad. And so the Blin family,
you can imagine the Christmas that Heaver going, ah, you know,
stressing out because oh my god, it's a girl.
Speaker 1 (20:24):
Yeah. I can imagine the amount of conversations around that
dinner table. I know, I'd love to have seen a
Christmas there. Did Henry ever go and visit He.
Speaker 2 (20:35):
Must have been, but we don't know every instance. I'm
sure he did, but I haven't got documentary pre laws yeah, exactly,
I know, because that's the thing, right, and then becomes
she's you know, she's crowned queen, and yeah, the Blins
have risen up to the top. They're like the premiere
family now. Yeah, so it's huge, and they get given titles.
(20:57):
I think he becomes I'm gonna check it. So Thomas
Billin becomes an earl and so that's you know.
Speaker 1 (21:03):
Huge, that is huge.
Speaker 2 (21:05):
It's not a duke old is not too bad. So
as a result, because you have that title, so he
was given an eldom and then a courtesy title was
given to George Billin. So a curtacy title means you
don't actually have any lands or anything with it. It's
just that they kind of always come into So if
you are given an ildo, you normally get a sort
of a lesser title for the heir of that family.
(21:27):
And so he also got titled as well.
Speaker 1 (21:30):
So George got a title without any land or extra benefits,
not even two the one cinema tickets, what a joke.
Might as well have just made him a jester. Actually,
do they have a gesture at Heaver Castle?
Speaker 2 (21:42):
Not necessarily there, it's too small a place, but they
could have hired in you know, entertainment for parties and
balls and that kind of thing. Yeah, for sure, I'm.
Speaker 1 (21:51):
Thinking the sort of scope of staff that are Heaver Castle. Yeah, massive, massive,
down to an abbey level or so.
Speaker 2 (22:02):
Tudor times are slightly different, of.
Speaker 1 (22:03):
Course because of jumping two these centuries.
Speaker 2 (22:05):
Yeah, chronological, but yeah, they would have had a huge
retinue of staff. And back then, you know, labor was cheap,
so they probably would have had way more just to
look impressive, and the kitchens would have been vast, like
if you've ever been to Hampton Court Palace that the
Tudor kitchens, they're huge because they have to be producing
so much food for feasts and parties something. So yeah, no,
(22:27):
they would have had a lot of staff.
Speaker 1 (22:30):
So the villains obviously were known for throwing their parties.
Speaker 2 (22:34):
Well I imagine, so as one of the big families,
why wouldn't they Do.
Speaker 1 (22:38):
They have any Do you have any record of what
the best party was?
Speaker 2 (22:42):
The eight three of the best parties?
Speaker 1 (22:45):
Yeah, I imagine he was. I imagine him with the
eighth with a sort of a wild boar.
Speaker 2 (22:50):
During Henry Date's reign, turkeys came into sort of fashion
to be eaten during Christmas time.
Speaker 1 (22:56):
Yeah, how did that happen?
Speaker 2 (22:57):
Because they came over from the New World, you know,
because we were all.
Speaker 1 (23:01):
That world turkey. Sound I don't know that sounds funny today,
a new World turkey.
Speaker 2 (23:06):
So yeah, and he basically they started to be reared
and domesticated, so in Norfolk and East Anglia, and then
they were sort of be they were so big, so
they were seen as quite a prestigious burd to eat
and boor as well was another thing for Christmas, so
all of these, Yeah.
Speaker 1 (23:24):
It was I heard this thing. I don't know if
you can confirm or deny about hunting boar. So you
know how nowadays people say that fox hunting is like
the upper class sport. Yeah, but actually back in the day,
bore the upper class and fox hunting was the lower class.
But then all the boors got taught, so they hadn't
got an option to do fox hunting.
Speaker 2 (23:44):
Yeah, that's very true. And also they would hunt deer
as well of.
Speaker 1 (23:48):
Course, So is there hunting grounds near Heaver Castle?
Speaker 2 (23:51):
Yeah there would have been, absolutely, because you know, Henry
loved it, so why not. And also he had you know,
Richmond Park was a hunting state like there was loser
hunting estates.
Speaker 1 (24:13):
So Anne being born and raised in this castle, when
do you think was the last time she frequented it?
Speaker 2 (24:21):
Well, some people say that she's never actually left because
there's apparently a ghost that has seen at Christmas time.
Speaker 1 (24:28):
At Christmas time specifically.
Speaker 2 (24:29):
Apparently, so yeah, walking across the bridge, who knew? Or
across the bridge, well, not a bridge across the river Eden,
which is sort of flows nearby. And also sometimes she's
spotted around and about. We should go at that one.
But you know what, we haven't actually talked about what
happened to Anne, like her actual demise. That's pretty sad, right, tragic.
We can't do this whole build up and not mention her.
Speaker 1 (24:50):
Yes, that's a good point because if you actually don't
know what happened to amberleyn and if you don't sorry
about the ghost stuff because spoiler alert, we should actually
probably tell people what happened to it and how Yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:00):
Let's do that sounds sensible, doesn't it. Okay, So we
left her when she was she had a girl right
nightmare disappointment, but she actually like to be a fantastic
queen anyway, that's by the bye. So Anne Boleyn gets
pregnant again. Who everybody's so excited this time is going
to be a boy. It's going to be then. Anyway,
(25:21):
Henry the Eighth is jousting and he gets knocked off
his horse and he's actually unconscious for more than an hour.
People think he's dead, and so Anne Berlin apparently this
is a stressful time because he's not coming around, he's
knocked out cold. What happens to her? What happened? What
happens to the Ballins? And she miscarries after this. We
(25:43):
don't know whether it's triggered by that. And it was
a boy?
Speaker 1 (25:46):
No, no, no.
Speaker 2 (25:48):
I know, and who was it? I don't know that
they didn't die dead.
Speaker 1 (25:56):
I know you're not surviving, mate, you've knocked off the
king and cause them to have a miscarriage.
Speaker 2 (26:02):
But can you imagine the terror that she must have felt,
Like there's pressure, like it's amazing that she conceived and
got pregnant anyway, because she's so stressed and the trauma,
and she knows what happens if she doesn't give a
boy this time it's a boy, it's dead and oh
my god. Henry immediately calls on her. He just goes
off her completely. So Anne Boleyn is now it is over. Essentially.
(26:23):
She tries to, you know, convince the king we can
still have another kid, but he's already spotted his next wife,
Jane Seymour, and he's already sort of enamored by Jane,
and he just doesn't really care about Amberleyn anymore. And
then this is where all of Anne Berlyn's enemies and
attractors start to circulate, these rumors that she's having you know,
(26:45):
she's having incest your relations with her brother, and that
she's flirting with other.
Speaker 1 (26:50):
Men and so where was the brother at this point?
What I know going on in London?
Speaker 2 (26:59):
Oh god, nightmare. Yeah, but all of a sudden it
just this is by the way, the year is fifteen
thirty six, dramatic year, and poor old everything had been
going well. She'd only been queen for three years, right,
and now it's over pretty much. She's then arrested. She's
taken to the Tower of.
Speaker 1 (27:16):
London and part of the the gossip was the six
finger things where that comes from, Oh she's a witch.
Speaker 2 (27:24):
Exactly, and that somehow she'd cause the death of her
baby and that kind of thing, you know, like people
were really cruel to her. They wanted her taken down,
and a lot of the men didn't like that she
or she had had such a hold on Henry, you know,
as a woman, they didn't like that. They wanted I
think she hadn't had a son, so it was all
spiraling out of control.
Speaker 1 (27:42):
Does this then go back to it obviously ends that
she gets beheaded, yes, yeah, on the gallows. And does
her death then affect the whole family there for their pace?
Speaker 2 (27:56):
Yeah, exactly. So basically what happens is she's beheaded. The
Blin are then in disgrace. So George Berlin, the brother,
is also executed because remember he's found guilty of having
sex with his sister, which is nuts right, not true,
but it was just it was like a done deal,
you know, like Henry wanted an the way he wanted
(28:18):
to marry Jane and say, this is all sort of
concocted to happen. So, yeah, the family's in disgrace. They
leave court, they're sort of banished for a bit, they
go they retire back to Heaver Castle. Can you imagine
like three years ago, the glory days were happening, and
I don't think they could even believe it.
Speaker 1 (28:33):
Mary, and then I sat on the Christmas table with
a small pigeon. Yeahs, we had it all and.
Speaker 2 (28:41):
Lost two children right in one go. So they have
one child left, Mary and Mary was sort of estranged
from her family so she wasn't there, so it was
just Thomas and Elizabeth billyin their house. I don't know.
Elizabeth never really recovered. She died a few years later.
Speaker 1 (28:56):
Yeah, I'm not surprised. I think my mum would probably.
Speaker 2 (28:59):
Yeah, exactly. And then Tom Thomas Billin was like, oh,
I'll remarry like a Nutter, but basically.
Speaker 1 (29:07):
Sure.
Speaker 2 (29:09):
Then he died the year later. That's the end, right,
they don't have an air so they kind of lose
the house, right they don't then, so then it goes
to the crown and it is given to Anne of Cleaves,
who is Henry's fourth wife, the one that he divorces,
you know, the one that he thought was too ugly
(29:31):
to you know, do it with. Well, partly, yeah, because
Hanns Holbein went over to Cleaves painted her. She he
painted her beautifully.
Speaker 1 (29:41):
Then.
Speaker 2 (29:43):
No, but the thing is it's not true like by
a contemporary account she was actually good looking. She was
not as ugly as everybody says.
Speaker 1 (29:50):
No, that was she as good looking as Ambuley.
Speaker 2 (29:51):
No, definitely, or Jane you know, Jane Seymour. And also
you know Henry. Henry was old and ugly at this time,
was getting really fat. But he had the audacity to
say gangrenous, Yeah, ulcerated leg.
Speaker 1 (30:05):
Noise, not so good yourself, Maybe just be happy.
Speaker 2 (30:08):
And he said he couldn't consummate it with Anne of Cleaves.
I can't do the deed, and so yeah, he divorced her.
Speaker 1 (30:15):
That sounds like an excuse for his impotency, That's what
I reckon.
Speaker 2 (30:19):
So yeah, Interestingly he gives her Heava as one of
her palaces. So she did really well, Okay she did.
Speaker 1 (30:26):
He is my ex wife who I had head chopped, toss.
Speaker 2 (30:29):
Old have this one nice?
Speaker 1 (30:32):
Sure that's so she then okay, so then it passes.
Speaker 2 (30:36):
To her, Yes, for her lifetime and she lived there
until her death.
Speaker 1 (30:45):
Thank you Amy so much. You've been incredibly visceral in
your descriptions of heaver Castle and knowledgeable in what happened there.
Where Can people find you on social media and stuff?
They want to hear more about you?
Speaker 2 (30:57):
Yeah? On TikTok gime history with history.
Speaker 1 (31:00):
With Amy are hearing that absolutely? Thank you very much,
nice as well. Thank you poor old an Berlin. She
deserved better than a fat man with galt who spreads
lives to get his own way. It's not much to
ask for, is it. Although, to be fair with the
state of our leader today, I'm not sure she'd be
able to do much better in this century. That's all
we've got time for this week. Until next time, keep
(31:21):
the receipts, kiss your pretty duckies, and mind your manner.
Thanks for listening to Bad Manners. If you like the pod,
please share it with your friends, Rate it on the
iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts,
Leave a review, and make sure you spill the tea
on any of your favorite Bad Manners that we could
feature in future episodes. This podcast was produced by Asamei
(31:44):
Studios for iHeartRadio. It was hosted by me Tom Horton.
It was produced by William Lensky, Rebecca Rappaport, and Chris Ataway.
It was executive produced by Face Steur and Zad Rogers.
Our production manager is Caitlin Paramore and our production coordinator
is Bellisolade.
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