Motivation with Aron Snyder

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
If you're listening to The Sportsman's Nation podcast network brought

(00:03):
to you by Interstate Batteries, we would like to remind
you to head over to the Sportsman's Nation Facebook and
Instagram pages to check out the new trailer for the
very first ever short film titled Tradition. We're really excited
about this project and hope you will enjoy it just
as much as we enjoyed making it. My name is

(00:27):
Clay Nucoleman. I'm the host of the Bear Hunting Magazine podcast.
I'll also be your host into the world of hunting
the icon of North American wilderness. There, we'll talk about tactics, gear, conservation,
but will also bring you into some of the wildest
country on the planet, chasing the better. Like what are you?

(00:55):
What are you trying to do? Aaron? What would what
would the end goal of Aaron Snyder? In twenty years
everything goes away that you would hope it would? What
what would that be? You know? Somebody asked me this
recently and I don't think they got the answer out
of me. I wanted, honestly. Might We stopped in Denver
at the Kafaru International Headquarters to talk with Aaron Snyder,

(01:19):
Colby and I were on our way back from Montana
and had an awesome conversation where we've talked about some
of Aaron's motivations, some of his background and hunting, why
he does what he does, his definitions of manhood. We
talked about his motivations for being as driven as he
is and as disciplined as he is. We talked about
traditional archery and some of the methods that he's using,

(01:41):
but also kind of contrasted it with other methods that
worked too. We had a fun conversation that's probably different
than some of the other podcasts you've heard with Aaron Snyder.
Be sure to check out the Bear Hunting Magazine Patreon
page where we are. We're gathering patrons for the Bear

(02:04):
Hunting Magazine YouTube channel and this podcast. Check out Bear
Hunting Magazine, the world's only print bear hunting magazine. And
good luck if you're still spring bear hunting. It's like
prime time right now, first weeks of June, and without
further ado, Aaron Snyder Toofaro, here we go. We're rolling,

(02:36):
all right. Welcome to the Bear Hunting Magazine podcast. This
is one of the podcasts on our Montana tour Colby
Moorehead and I are coming back from Montana on a
do it yourself bear hunt. We hauled our mules up
to Montana and we were coming back through Denver. So
Colorado is in between Montana and Northwest Arkansas. And uh,

(03:01):
we are here at Kfaru and Wheat Ridge, Colorado. Is
that right, Aaron? That's correct? Wheat Rich Colorado, the Kafaro
World headquarters. Because it's pretty stinking impressive to really is.
But I've got we're here with Aaron Snyder, and uh,
for people who wouldn't Aaron, you're a hard guy to describe.

(03:22):
But for for people who wouldn't know Aaron Snyder, which
some of you may not, but I figured a lot
of you do. Aaron, first of all, he works for
Kafaru and Kafaru is a is a they make backpacks
that make shelters there. I'm gonna let you describe what is.
But Aaron hosts a podcast. Aaron does outdoor writing. Aaron

(03:44):
is a prolific archer, got into traditional archery the last
several years. He's a heck of a hunter. He's a
heck of a shot. Kind of you got got started
on rock slide the forum a long time ago. I
us A lot of people knew you through that, Aaron,
through gear related stuff. I started that website, you started

(04:06):
rock Slide, and now you are the infamous Aaron Snyder
probably a good way to describe it. Yeah, but hey,
you're also a big bear hunter and an honest podcast.
We don't always just talk about bear hunting. But h
but Aaron Man, how would you introduce yourself? Um? Well,

(04:27):
I'm the I'm the now president and CEO of Kafaro International.
Um I yeah, I got started just doing gear review,
started a website, rock Slide. Uh, got on a different podcast,
Gritty Bowman kind of was a co host there. And
I'm a bit introverted. I'm not too good at being
in public with a large group of people, which to

(04:47):
my probably downfall. But I get to spend, as you know,
a hundred and fifty two hundred plus nights a year
in the wilderness. I end up lucky enough to go
on hunts a year. Um, and so you know, for
for me, I try to just help people as much
as I can, both with the gear obviously designing gear
not just for KAfari but multiple other companies as well.

(05:11):
And uh, you know, my goal really wasn't to get
into the industry like a lot of people's. My goal
was to get into the woods and stay there as
much as I could, and in the industry ended up
being a byproduct of it. Um. So yeah, that's probably
not the best description in the world. But what were
your original introductions to hunting there and you did you
grow up in a hunting family. Oh? My my home No,

(05:33):
not really no, um a little bit. My hometown is
um a couple of hundred people in the middle of
the Pacific Crest Trail. It's an organ it runs kind
of right by my hometown. It's a logging community. And
my dad hunted a little and you know, got me
into fishing and the outdoors. But I'm one of those
guys from from birth with it was just eating up
alive with hunting, survival fishing. I picked mushrooms as a

(05:56):
kid Ford school clothes, um, you know, instead same thing
to for my first bow, um, and it was one
of those things that um I got. I don't know
what that is beating, but anyway, it was one of
those things I literally could not get in the woods
enough and that never never left even to this day. UM,

(06:18):
I mean, you see how much I get to to
hunt and I can't. You can get sick of hunting.
I will say that you can't get tired of it
where you need a break. But UM, you know, if
I had a choice, whether it be photography, which is
something else I'm really into, or hunting, as long as
I'm in the outdoors, I'm I'm in my element. Yeah,
what was So? What was the first animal you took

(06:39):
with the I mean in the Oregon what were you hunting?
It's probably illegal, be honest with you, UM, not a
lot of law in a statutes, you know, I'm trying
to remember. I'm I'm quite certain that probably, you know,
being honest, it probably wasn't the most legal method of
take at that time. But there's not a lot of
people or anything like that where I'm from. But I

(07:00):
I think it was a black tail deer. Actually, no,
it was legal. The first one I shot was a
black tail fokard horn. I was probably eleven or twelve
years old. Um, I had just taken my Hunter's Safety
card or got my hunter safety card, so I was
probably twelve, and I didn't hunt as much when I
was uh younger. I was on a trail crew team,

(07:20):
and I got to do a lot of backpacking through
the wilderness. UM learned a lot about what ended up
being backpack hunting. UM. I fished a ton when I
was younger, and I hunted a bunch of me and
A hunted during seasons. But it wasn't very good at it.
I didn't have a great mentor. UM. You know that
came you know later, where I you know, got better
and better better the more more I hunted. And I

(07:40):
definitely more self taught, you know, which is probably why
I tried to take so many people under my wing.
It's a rough road when you're self taught. So you
got a lot of bumps. Tell us about somebody who
doesn't like I wouldn't have Probably five years ago, I
didn't know. I didn't know about Kafara. But it's pretty

(08:00):
incredible company. I mean, you just gave us a tour,
a short tour the headquarters here, and everything is American made.
Everything is made right here in Colorado. Every component of
the packs, the shelters, the clothing, all the stuff that
you're making. I'd say that's super unique. And I know
that everything I think I've heard, maybe you said before.

(08:24):
But I mean there's no there's no corners cut really
on anything. You're trying to use the best possible materials,
the lightest white materials, and just not always the lightest weight.
Definitely the best bang for the buck. It may be
a little heavier sometimes but more durable, but the most functional.
Sometimes sometimes it is the lightest weight. Um yeah it

(08:45):
it uh uh. Cafar Oh actually was started by Patrick Smith,
who who started Mountain Smith, which is back in the
day was an extremely large mountaineering or backpacking company. Um.
He sold that and then started Kafaro Internet. Sal uh
he isn't put it's a rhino and Swahili so rhino
tough gear when that comes from and Patrick, who's basically

(09:09):
like a father to me. Now, um you know the
short version. I came in here to test the pack
and write a review about it, and I was like
a bad penny. I guess I never went away. He
had daughters. Um, you know all daughters and their husbands
aren't early into hunting or the outdoors, and um it
was a good fit. I think he uh saw in
me a lot of him and his youth of um

(09:31):
from survival or eating marmots or you know, it's one
of those. I just did a podcast with someone else
and they like one of the things. Patrick's like, you know,
you ever had a mormaot And I was like, well, yeah,
of course I've had a mormot. Well, most people this
day and age haven't eaten marmot or squirrel or e. Yeah.
We talked about that on the podcast. You gotta skin
him from the leg up. By the way of they

(09:52):
taste kind of panty in Alaska, that's all I know. Yeah,
they do, they do everywhere. Um, they're not great either.
They're a little tough sometimes, but I've eaten just about everything.
But those were things he was maybe quizzing me before
I worked. Here. We're backpack and we're back back into
a lake, you know, keep minding seventy six now, um,
so sixty nine and we'd hike in and I think,

(10:15):
as uh, he's a he should have been a teacher
or a you know, professor. He's very intelligent. His I
feel dumb when I'm around him. His vocabularies off. He's
been on the podcast some Yeah, I hadn't listened to
it yet, but I want to. I want to hear him. Yeah, yeah,
he's I was trying to get him liquored up, because
he's much funnier when he's whisked at a little whiskey
in him. But uh, he would uh you know, I

(10:36):
think he wanted to be able to teach me more,
but I had had had good Um he's taught me
more about being a man than he taught I didn't.
There was a whole lot because that that phrase could
mean a lot of things. Well, you hear people a
lot of people talk about let's say, you know, like
extreme ownership. Well that's not just some stuff you put

(10:56):
on a T shirt. You know that that means owning
up to you know, whether it's your fault or not.
And as you take over a large company one way
or another, it's your fault. Whether it's your fault or not,
in the end, it's your fault, right. So and and
obviously I had some leadership um uh skills behind me before.
But he also taught me to you know, calm down.

(11:17):
Um a pretty high strung guy, and uh he taught
you know, he also, you don't need to take over
the world. You need to be happy. And you know
he even worries about me now stressing out and and
he is the kind of guy that if I was
super stressful, no matter what was going on, he'd walk
in and be like, you need to go out in
the woods. And he's like, you know, take four or
five days and uh, you know, get away. And also

(11:41):
that when you when you test things, um, you know,
not answering this question very well, but he would not
come out with some products for ten years of testing.
And so he you know, never rush anything like take
as long as it needs to be to be tested,
which is why we don't have a lot of failure years, um,
you know. And so I just uh, you know, as

(12:04):
far as taking care of family, uh, everything like that
and just being a better person. Um, you know, he's
been very good at me about that. As far as
the outdoors, there wasn't a whole lot for me to learn.
I'm not not saying that on a bragging aspect. It's
just I've been able to do so much what I
did need to learn or what he wanted to teach me.
I'm not a gun guy, and so he's a reloading fool.

(12:26):
I might as well be talking about golf. It's just
not my thing. And I he actually made fun of
me a bit for being a bow hunter. He's like,
why do you do that? Not youren't gonna kill anything,
and he didn't say it like that, but basically, and
I'm like, no, I'm pretty good with this thing, you know.
And I think the first year I worked here, I
think I put a flipped over seventeen or twenty animals

(12:48):
and he never brought it up again. Um So now
he's very intrigued following along because I'll go on hunts
like that our dad hunted. He's out dad hunted and
was like, man, that's almost in possible. And got him
with a stick, him with a stick on first day.
Basically run a mile to get him, but I got
him either way. Hey, let me let me go back

(13:09):
to Let me go back to uh the question that
you said, because I liked what you said about you
learned how to be a man. What would you say,
Aaron is like inside of that process? How are you
forty two or something? Working on what? What have been
your biggest struggles inside of life? Not not even talking

(13:30):
about bow hunting, but I mean you, I appreciate your
and I think this is why people like you and
respect you even if they don't like you is is
your your your It's clear that your passion and extreme
dedication to the things you commit yourself to are legit
and honestly, most people don't have the internal technology or

(13:53):
architecture inside of them to really commit themselves to something.
Um what so what? What would have been struggles inside
of your life that you have overcome that? And that's
a broad, sweeping question and a personal question. That's a
good question. I tell you what I haven't overcome is

(14:14):
over commitment. Um. You know, and you hear all kinds
of stories about me that I'm like a royal a
hole to some people, and then you talk to guys
that are close to me and they're like, He's the
most giving dude I've ever met in my life. I
mean to a point. Jake Jake Downs is a guy
that recently and I come friends and he's like worried.
I've been so nice to him. And one of the

(14:35):
things when you're that nice, sometimes you over commit. I'll
overcommit on hunts. We just talked about that, where, Um,
you know, I I get I want to help so
many people and then I end up letting some of
them down. That's a problem I price struggle with was
my whole life because you just can't, you know, with
a busy schedule. I do my best. But one of
the things I've said I've i've overcome the most is

(14:56):
my I have a temper. I have a when I
say temper, not fly off the handle all the time,
passive aggressive temper. I'll let things slide and slide and slide,
and the next thing you know, I'm choke slimming a dude.
Um true story, Like that's happened many times to where
and Patrick's helped out with that where I really have
been able to take a big step back, look at

(15:18):
the giant, broader picture, um assess and then get everyone together,
whether it be just me and another guy or me
and twenty other people, and kind of assess and look
at it from all sides of the fence, if that
makes any sense. Like there's always if you and I
have an issue and you talk to a guy, you're
gonna be right. And I'm looking at kolbe Jack here

(15:38):
and if I'm gonna be right if they talk to me.
I've gotten really good at taking a step back and say, hey,
I'm I'm owning up to this part of it. But
this parts yours man, and and and that's been something
I've really tried to work on as a leader in
a person, just being direct with people. Yeah, and it's
it's hard for people. It's very hard for people to
be I like people to be very direct me. Um

(16:01):
that people do not deal well with that. Let me
ask you something about I think part of part of
manhood is also humility. And what's interesting and I think
what people perceive about you is that you're because I mean,
some people could say, um, well, there's a there's a

(16:26):
part of just knowing who you are and confidence in
your identity. Just as I just am what I am
and I'm not gonna undersell it and I'm not gonna
oversell it. I just am who I am. And I
think you're good at uh, you're good at just saying hey,
I'm a good traditional archery shot. I've committed the last
three years of my life to becoming that. And if

(16:47):
some people said it, they would say that guy is arrogant,
that guy is blowing smoke. You know, people still say
that about me all the time. I think they do.
But and they may, they may, and maybe they have
the right to say that. But I think that what
you have that I have seen dealing with you on
a personal level is I think you're I think humility

(17:12):
is inside there, which is good. Let me just put
it that way, because I talked to a few people
about this, because I'm like, I don't consider myself arrogant.
I consider myself very confident. But from what I know
of arrogant people, they're not able to say I suck
at this, or this was my fault, or where I'm
the first guy to say I suck at guns, or man,

(17:34):
I'm horrible a paperwork, or hey, Clay, I'm an idiot.
I forgot to send you this article. You know what
if And I think that's what I'm saying is that
you're you take responsibility, You're you're just confident in who
you are. And I think that's what I think, that's
what all of us really are are are trying to do,
is just walking our identity. One thing that we talked

(17:57):
a lot about inside of our church and stuff is identity.
Knowing who you are. Identity is power. Yeah, really I
didn't know, and who you are in in and not
trying to be something you're not and not trying to
you know, just you are who you are and and
utilizing all the things that that you have for for

(18:17):
the minute what you're doing. No, I agree, And I'm
as far as on the spiritual side, I'm a bit
of an odd duck because I am not the most
spiritual person in the world. But I watched Joe Alstein
the blinker um and he he didn't think that this
was gonna happen, was going to come up. I'm a
unique dude when and I you know, I say, as

(18:39):
I say that, I'm sure I'll get arrogant comments about that.
But like I've read the book The Five Love Languages
like three times to make sure I'm a good husband.
The first time I read it was because I got
a divorce, um, and it actually helped me pick up chicks.
The second time I read it because I didn't want
to lose one. And the third time I read it
motivation there I don't know, you know, and it was
I mean being honest. And the third time I read

(18:59):
it is to make sure I keep the one I
got um. And there are times and and things that
I will like with Joelstein. Am I watching it for
maybe the same reasons you two are, Maybe maybe not,
But I'm definitely watching it to become a better person.
And when he had talked about that, and and Amy
is a bit of enamored my wife from time to

(19:21):
time because I'll I'll say, yeah, man, I can shoot,
you know what I can shoot? And then you talk
about Turkey combat. Man, I suck with a diaphragm. I
just can't. I can't do it, man, that's all you.
I don't find that. I like people that have those
characteristics to where one of the reasons I Frank and
Jake down some Cody, three guys that are I'm super

(19:42):
close with is they'll do the same thing. They'll they're
gonna tell me they're strong points, and I want to
hear them, and they're gonna be honest with their week
because those are just important as a strong ones. Like
if you think I'm all all not me, someone is
all everything in the world, and then you find out
pretty soon they they are deficient in in half of

(20:02):
them and excellent in the other half. That's bad. You
need to know the deficiencies. And so I try to
just be as upfront as I can of what I'm
good at or not good at. That's a good that's
a good segue to maybe, uh, a couple of other things.
Let me go ahead and say just for because we
I've already got off track here, but I don't really
have a track. I wanted to talk to you about kafaro.

(20:22):
I wanted to talk to you about some about your
traditional archery. There's We've got quite a few listeners that
I think listen to this podcast because we don't focus
on traditional archery, but you know, we end up talking
about it because I've hunt quite a bit with trad
equipment um. And then thirdly I want to eventually get
two bears. Um. But but it's good to hear a

(20:43):
little bit about the you know, kind of your backstory
and uh and really some of your maybe motivations and
maybe maybe that's a good question. We'll take this question
and then we'll go to trad archery. Okay, all right?
What what are your what are your goals inside of hunting? Mean?
Like if you get to hunt as much as you
do And that's even a broader statement from even a professional,

(21:06):
because I know you're in the outdoor industry, Um, like
what are you what are you trying to do? Aaron?
What would what would the end goal of Aaron Snyder
in twenty years if everything goes away that you would
hope it would. What what would that be? You know?
Somebody asked me this recently, and I don't think they
got the answer out of me. I wanted, honestly, my

(21:27):
my number one goal is to be able to go
hunt all the time and be off social media. I
do not like social media at all, but I'm forced.
I mean, I like, as I say that, I love
afflicted a bit on that well. I love helping people,
and I like telling people the story because it motivates him.
I don't know how many emails I've got about saving
guys lives diets, Um, guys are talking about committing suicide.

(21:50):
Before you came in, I spent twenty minutes talking on
the phone with a dude that was ready to quit
his job because he was freezing running a jackhammer. And
his buddy said, you gotta listen to parroadcast. This dude
was a construction worker, and he said, saved his job.
He listens to no any it's from Montana. I don't
know who he was, um, but those things keep you going.

(22:11):
But I also I'm not a limelight person, and sometimes
I'll get flak about that, and I'm like like thinking,
if you knew me, like lander will tell you, like
he laughs, because people come into camp and I'm like
shining and going in the corner. I'm just not good
at that. I look down a lot for whatever reason
and public and I have trouble looking in people's eyes.
It's just not my thing. Remy Warren seems to be

(22:32):
a lot like that too from what I've seen. But Mike,
really my goal is just ton as much as I
possibly can, spend as much time in the field as
I possibly can. I've got no goals of the the
super Slam or certain you know, like whatever like they're
I'll have a goal like we're talking about, I'm really
wanting to shoot, um a really big mountain goat, try
to shoot the largest with a stickbow. But that's not

(22:53):
because I'm an enter in the record book. That's just
because I'm a goal oriented guy. Really not, you know,
That's just what I'm going in with. But it's the
way my brain works. Like when people said I couldn't
kill an now dad with a stickbow, I really was like, yeah,
you know what I'm gonna I'm gonna figure it out.
You know and if I don't get it done, yeah,

(23:14):
I'm I And it's so just from where does that
come from? Aaron? Like? Because it it? It's it. Do
you have something to prove? You know? Because Lander has
so Lander was a shrink, right, did you know it? All? Right? So?
Landers had me on the couch multiple times. I've got

(23:34):
some dad issues in this talking about we're talking about
Jeff Lander with Primitive Outfit and British Columbia, my dad
who you skipped out on me because I'm gonna be
there next week and Aaron was supposed to be there.
You're supposed to have this podcast in British Columbia over
the hot of a dead bear with the smell of
bloody hands. But it was the one outside. We do
have a bloody we do have a bear hide in

(23:56):
the mule trailer. Aeron. We're clo man, We're totally get
out track. We're training mules as we speak. Did you
know that I've got a bear hide trailer with with
my young mule who wouldn't let me put the bear
hide on her, and so she's been riding with the
bear hide in the trailer for the last five or
six hours. It's been below forty degrees, so anyway motivation, no, no,

(24:19):
no proven something that got something to prove a man,
I would say, um m m. And hopefully my mom
doesn't listen to this. I do not have a great
relationship with my dad at all, um, and he not
a great dad and it wasn't really you never got
a good job from him ever. And if I was
to guess, that's between him and then my coach football,

(24:41):
coach Perkins in a good way, My coach Perkins. Uh
that um, you know one basically left me to like,
is anything ever good enough? In the reality was he
just never paid enough attention. But and then Perkins showing
me you can anything is attainable as a human if
you work at it hard enough. Because really influential. Oh yeah,

(25:06):
I'd kill building full of people to keep him safe.
He's the guy for me and uh and I do
a bad job of keeping up with him, but he's
he's been on the podcast before. But really a turning
point in my life because as a pecker head, as
a kid, I fought a lot um to where he
you know, he he made you want to be a
better person. And when you succeeded or you failed, he

(25:27):
was there to say, suck it up, man, butch up,
You're gonna have to try harder. And when you succeeded,
he was there to say, hey, man, that's what happens
when you know you put the work in, and that
work ethic is what carried through. Now as I say
that I have trouble filing my taxes, I can't remember
to take the garbage out. But if you want a
race to the top of a mountain, or you tell

(25:47):
me something can't be done, I'm gonna find a way
or I'm gonna try. Um. And I think, uh, that
kind of discipline, you know, and and and that ability
to not do very good at failing came from those
one my dad who's and then sorry you might want
to write down and then uh perfect, Um, you know,
in a lot of other people along the way. But

(26:09):
I think that's what you know at that young of
an age. I'm amazed how much that in a good
and bad way? So where where does that Where does
that stop? Aaron? I don't know if it ever will,
probably till the day I die. I mean it hasn't yet.
Well you know what I think, I think, insight, it's
probably the most powerful tool that we have as humans

(26:31):
to be able to perceive the things because everything that's
happened to us does have influence on us. I mean really,
like I mean I think about I think about my
hunting because I mean that's a big focal point inside
my life. I mean, aside from obviously my family and
my wife, my children are absolute number one priority, but
I mean from a outside of that, I mean, hunting

(26:53):
is a focal point. And I my dad was he
was a great dad, and he he was a bow
hunt or he was bo hunting before bo hunting was cool.
But I received a ton of validation. The most validation
that I received as a kid was when I killed
something brought it home and Dad was like, good job.
I mean, And so sometimes I look at that Aaron

(27:15):
now and say, am I still you know you gotta
you gotta monitor your motivations, Like am I Am I
still chasing validation inside of this? And is that the
correct thing for my life? And you know, these are
things I think about all the time because the decisions
you make inside of your life and motivations for what
you do are significant, you know. But now I'm glad

(27:39):
the podcast is going down this road because sometimes we're
not very serious on our podcast all the time, and
there's a lot of quite honestly, your listeners may not
want to listen to it. It's explicit and and there's
not a lot of serious talk on there. And and
I'm not very good. I'm not uh, Donnie Vincent or
Brian call where I'm gonna write a poem, right, I'm
not gonna do it, right it when it comes to motivation, um,

(28:03):
like I think people uh, without coming off to two
ar again, I mean in the at the bottom line,
you've got you, right, and that's all you've got. And
that's one thing I like about bow hunting is I
can't rely blame anyone else, right, it's all on you.
And when I say on you, meaning you can buy
the best gear in the world, right, mine is paying
for outfitters. You can buy gimme hunts, but let's just

(28:24):
publicly and hunts. Um. You know, it's all what you
put into it, and it's common sense and field craft
and in the whole nine yards and at the end
of the day, right, I mean, you've got you and
you're the only one to blame. And I think that's
one of the reasons I like, um, solo backpack hunts,
not necessarily solo, but backpack hunting is it's it's it's
all on you. Um. I prefer that so. But I

(28:48):
think though, if I was going to give people, you know, advice,
is um, you know you get uh, you know, getting
into the industry stuff? What am I get? You know?
How do I get into the industry? And and and
all these different questions and you know, really, if you
just focus on what you're doing, being the most successful hunter,
if that's what you want to do, the most successful hunter,

(29:09):
the most successful shot, the best shot you can, industry
is probably gonna come to you. Um. Well, when you
need an article, you go to guys that shoot bears. Right,
You're not going to guys that go on bear hunts. Generally,
you're going on the guys who going bear hunts. In
success people want to hear a success story. Well, if
you focus on bear hunting, you shoot bears, Clay, maybe

(29:29):
getting a hold of you, right, and rather than focusing
on selfies and in the gym, right, nothing nothing wrong
with going to the gym. I go every day, but
focus on what you're wanting to do, and if that's
be a greater, better hunter. Probably me forget some part
of what what you said originally was that your goal
is just to be a hunter man. I'm just like

(29:52):
you in terms of getting into the outdoor industry. I
never had a goal to be in the outdoor industry.
I never had a goal to make a living in
the outdoor industry. But my passion for it it found me,
you know. I mean, I built my life back when
I had no intentions of ever being at full time
in the outdoor industry. I built my life around a

(30:13):
prioritization of being in the woods when the white oak
leaves turn maroon around October. That's what I That's what
I built. Aside it from other motivations inside a family,
I've had my own business because of that, and then
things began to happen. But to this day, Colby and
I were talking today Guys a lot of guys that

(30:34):
do video. I hear them talking. It's it's like their
passion is video and they love to hunt, so they
do hunting videos. And and to me it's you know,
and I think to you as well, and I think
to a lot of people it's reversed to that. My
passion is hunting. And then from that stems, well, we
are gonna make media, We're gonna do video, we're gonna

(30:56):
do photography, and so. But it's fueled from this place
of man, we're hunters, and and I think that's a
good that's a good core motivation. Not I want to
be a famous hunter or not that I want to
be well known, but it's just, man, that's I want
to hunt. I wanna be a good hunter. I constantly
respected growing up, just guys that were the real deal,

(31:17):
legit guys that weren't looking for validation. I mean, they
weren't looking for fame. They weren't looking to take their
buck down and show it off at the parking lot.
Even though I like to do that. That's good, but
but the guys that were just legit, well, that's where
that conflict internally comes from. For me, the first thing
I do social media not bringing the deer down to

(31:38):
the same thing though, right, The first thing I do
is because I kind of I don't have to, but
I put it on social media. Well, I mean, I'm
in the business of selling backpacks and I have to
get my name out there. And if you don't post
what you've done you're kind of become inconsequential. You you
become non existent, and so you have to I want
to get to a point where I don't have to,

(32:00):
all right, I just can go hunting and not have
to worry about it. So, um as I say that,
I have been very blessed, obviously, I just I started
a narrow company with a guy broadheads of this company here. Um,
I get to hunt more than i'd probably anyone day there,
you know, I get to hunt a ton, and so
I've been very blessed. It's just at the end of

(32:22):
the road, I would like to just be able to
go hunting and photography. I'm about as addictive to photography
as I am traditional archery, and that's some great stuff.
I love your Instagram, Yeah yeah, but liking your princes
and stuff like you can really tell to a passion.
Does that Does that ever help like bring calmerce slowness
to you? Uh like hunting sometimes? No, not somewhat, you

(32:47):
know what. I what It's kind of weird with photography.
For a few years there I helped more than I
hunted by far and the way the industry works. And
there's a couple of guys specifically who like talked Craps
saying and well, he never kills anything, he just helps people.
And I'm like, man, what does the industry come to
to where it's bad that I'm helping so many people?

(33:07):
Because I I had shot enough stuff that I just
like going along and taking pictures. Well, obviously in the
position I mean now I kind of had to do
a little bit of a role reversal and just start
piling up animals. Um, but I'm lucky enough now where
I'll take the camera with me and photograph my own
hunts as well as many others. And uh, you know,
you start talking about the reasons why you're out there.

(33:28):
If you're out there to get more social media likes,
you're out there for the wrong reason in in my opinion.
If that's a byproduct of it, great, but you should
be out there for the love of the animal, the
love of the outdoors, the love of the sport, whatever
you wanna call it. And for me, I think that shows. Uh,
with the guys I hang out with it, they could
care less if you know they're out there to hunt
and and everything else that buy product of that. Yeah. Yeah,

(33:50):
I just think like a lot of your still images
really capture something, you know, I definitely I wrote an
article about it, and you know, stopping time, that's what
I try and do, you know, and and video is
much better bright and I suck at video. Like my
my meal deer hunt was horrible as me looking like
I was in a concentration camp daily in my tent
because the only time I turn it on. But I
had amazing photos of the hunt. And if I can

(34:13):
get um, you know, the best time is like in
the misery of the hunt, if I can get a
photo of that that really shows like like there's a
photo of of my wife and she's got baggy eyes.
She just woke up the stings coming out of the
coffee where in that she's got her head lamp on,
and it truly stopped. You could tell, like Jesus, she's tired.

(34:33):
It's first thing in the morning, she's drinking coffee. I
find nothing more gratifying than as much as shooting an animal,
almost as being all, yeah, yeah, there's one on the
wall back here of a of a of a doll
sheep that I that I took that as another time
where the guy's coming over the hill. Anyway, it's one
of those where I'm like, I remember that like it
was yesterday and was able to stop that time for

(34:55):
a moment and for guys to remember it. So yeah, right, um,
traditional archery, Aaron. Um, So to three years ago you
started shooting trad archer thousand six, I'm gonna make a
I'm gonna make a claim here, um, and we're not
gonna test it. So it's just gonna people are just

(35:16):
gonna have to make their own decision. I think at
ten yards I could shoot with you with a trad bow.
I think if we could go out in the parking
lot right now by my mule trailer, ten yards, I
could shoot with you. Aaron, I agree, Um, because I know,
I know that you're you're you're a gap shooter, So
ten yards is probably a little tough. Well, actually, ten

(35:38):
yards you'd you'd be in trouble. Um, eighteen to twenty two,
you might have trouble. But I don't shoot gap the
whole I shoot gap out about twenty eight and and out.
I shoot gap. I shoot instinctive inside of that, and uh,
you know, with with traditional archery, the first thing I'll
say is I was catapulted ahead of everyone else because

(35:58):
of the clumps with brock Hume out right here. I
was just there shooting before it came over here. Um
and I started shooting a stick bow actually more as
to prove a point. Did a podcast I've told this
story about the meantime, did a podcast on ethical shooting
distance because I was the the a hole dropping bombs
in a hundred yards and animals sometimes or even further

(36:19):
with a compound and anyway, um wait, I can't even
say a hole. Um, I'm just the uh. I gotta
remember that for the when I keep talking. Um, I
an acronyms are sketchy, Okay, gotcha. So I pretty much
had broke down, you know, as far as what's ethical

(36:42):
for a compound and a stick bow and and and
I had made fun of stick boy hunters forever um
and was about the farthest thing from a traditional archer.
And I got a bunch of emails after that podcast
about your your crappy hunter, your you know, pick up
a stick bow and see how successful you are. And

(37:03):
the way my mind works, which is I think Tom
clumb is, I don't know if I enamored, but he's
amazed by how my my brain works. And I sold
every piece of compound equipment. I had literally inside of
a week, I had a giant water of cash. I
walked down to Rocky Mountain Specialty Gear and well the
rest is history now. So yeah, that's how you got
into it. Well the errand I had a so thirty

(37:29):
seconds about my traditional archery career. Grew up compound hunting
in two thousand five, started shooting a stick bow with
somebody gave it to me, but never hunted with it. Uh,
killed my first gear maybe in two thousand seven, but
it was just like a half hat, you know. It
was just like, I'm gonna try this for a couple
of hunts, had been shooting, but then in two six

(37:49):
It was a long story, but I ended up. I
ended up through a unique situation, ended up giving away
my bow two weeks before season, my compound bow, and
and it wasn't really intentional, it was just something I
felt like I needed to do, so I did it.
And so the only thing that I had come in
two weeks into season and sen was the stick bow,

(38:10):
and I had killed by that time, I guess I
had killed. I had killed two bears with it, and
I had killed a deer with it. Killed the coyote
with it, you know, but just peddled, never never committed.
In sixteen is when that's all I had. And so
I went into the sixteen season and uh and and
killed seven animals in a row, two bears, four deer

(38:33):
in a mountain lion with the traad bow that year.
And it was a unique situation just like what you did.
It's like when you have no other choice and you're
a hunter, I mean you it almost it almost felt
like I was a caveman that they dropped out in
the woods and you know, you had sent you and
some juniper and uh, some stone points, and you were like,

(38:54):
you gotta survive. I mean that's why I felt, I
mean even inside of from an outdoor media position, I
mean like I understand, you know, I mean we're hunting
and we're gathering content for It's like I needed to
I needed to take some game. Yeah, and it but
it but it was such a powerful experience to just
be like I will either be successful with this or not.

(39:15):
And I had a good streak and uh but anyway,
so it sounds like that's what you did. You went
cold turkey there for a year and then you got
out of it for a while per year, well eight,
you know whatever part of one season. It's um was
for a couple of different reasons. One, the amount of
money I lost in endorsement contracts is crappy, right, And

(39:37):
you don't get paid to shoot a stick from okay,
from compounds from compound. Yeah, and uh, there was a
lot of a lot, a lot of pressure. But even
today there's pressure to shoot a compound. I can shoot
one pretty well and and um be successful with it,
but how much the really the like the end of
it of the compound was in in with Jeff Lander

(39:59):
and we're in Alberta. I made a ridiculous stock, I
mean like a one in a million chance to pull
this off, and I made it, shot a buck and
not much excitement was going on adrenaline with the compound.
And then Brian Broderick was with me. He's a guy
partnered up with on day six Um Broderick. The same

(40:20):
day that afternoon we went on a stock and the
adrenaline level I had when he had his longbow in
my hand and he knew what he could see it
in my eyes. He's like, yeah, he's coming back to
the dark side or the bright side. And everyone look
at it. And when he shot that animals, I don't know,
seven yards or something. Um, I was you know, in
my mind, I didn't tell anybody. In my mind, I'm thinking, man,

(40:41):
this is what is my passion? Like, what am I
doing shooting the compound? Um? And I you know, there's
always there's a lot of compound guys that hate on
stickbow guys. I was one of them, and you know
they used as an excuse to suck um. And I thought,
you know, I, um, I think I can be a
success will or more so with this stick. I just

(41:03):
have to buckle down. And and I've never said this
before on a podcaster to anybody, but in my mind,
I thought, I'm going to prove to myself I can
be more lethal with a stickbow than I ever was,
or anyone can be with a compound. And I'm again
I sound arrogant. I'm doing a good job. We got
first this podcast we talked about, but I I wanted

(41:28):
to be at a position and it's happened where if
a stickbo a compound guy is making fun of a
stickbow guy, I can be like the most Now I've
kind of been humbled the last year with my stickbow.
But before that, errand when I came out of that,
the streak of I may have been seven. I think
it was seventeen when I had the the seven animals

(41:51):
in a row. You've got no choice but to feel
like and this is the way that I've said it,
when I pick up that stickbow, I have got to
feel like that I can kill any critter on the
planet in any situation or or or I'm not gonna
be successful because the thing that with the big transition

(42:12):
for me, um would have been that for years because
I told you I gotta well, I actually gotta stick bow.
In two thousand one, uh, David Albright Bowyer in Arkansas
gave me one. But for ten years I wasn't convinced
that it was an efficient killing weapon. I mean, I
was just like, I'm not gonna kill stuff because this

(42:34):
bow won't kill stuff, which is ridiculous. They're extremely efficient weapon.
The mankind has been birthed on the meat harvested by
traditional boats for the last ten thousand years. Killed in
combat with arrows, and they have bullets in history, and

(42:54):
that's before a compound. Because nobody's died in combat from
a compound so giving an idea. Yeah, yeah, but that
but that attitude. So I'm identifying with that attitude of man,
I've got to know and not not doubt myself because
when you because so much a traditional archery is mental,

(43:15):
I mean massively mental, and only as good as your
last shot, and if your last shot was a bad one,
you be able to be able to take it on
the chin and get back up, or you're gonna have
a long, long bad streak. Um. And that I mean,
that's really just how it is. Um. There's not really
you know, any way around that. Um. I think Landers
brought up to me, He's like, what are you gonna

(43:37):
What's gonna happen when you have a bad year? And
I'm like, I'm not gonna have a bad year. It's
like it's not in me. You know, I probably will, right,
but I'm like I can't let that go on in
my mind. I'm like, I got it. I'm just not
gonna have a bad year. Now. I've had some bad hunts.
You know. That mule deer hunt was one that UM
was was rough. Um. I pissed blood. I shouldn't have

(43:59):
said the P word p blood twice. UM had some
kind of fungus on my hand. Um growing from whatever
in twelve days into it ten days a hunting whatever
it was, I still hadn't had a buck on the ground.
Without a doubt, one pent season would have been over
the first day with a compound. Um Lander had told
me you will eventually get to a point where you

(44:21):
won't go on a stock and say I could have
killed it with my compound, and I didn't believe them,
but it has happened. It will still cross my mind.
But the feeling I get after I finally pulled it
off with a stick boat is far greater than anything
I've felt with a compound. It's more self fulfilling, I
guess you could say, um and so being driven our

(44:46):
goal oriented like I am and everything else. The stick
boat is just a good, good fit, and I have
had a good streak of success and hopefully that continues. Okay,
here's my next question is I'm I ask you a
question and then I gotta tell Colby something. But I
don't want to forget the question what comes after this

(45:07):
once you've accomplished it, because I know that happens inside
of me. I set a goal to do something, whether
it's a specific type of hunt, a specific way to
do it. So that's the question. You've got five seconds
to think about it, Kobe, why don't you go check
on our mules. We got our mules out in the
out in the parking lot. I had to do this
last podcast too, but I didn't do it on the air.

(45:27):
I think that, uh, probably, once I get to a
point where I'm fulfilled enough, I guess with the stick bow,
I'll probably just help other guys and photographed their homes.
I don't know that it will be another hunted. Do
you ever see yourself going more primitive? I mean, is
that's something you're interested in? Not not now, you know,
I mean like stone I mean because the progression you know,
is to go to like a self bow with a

(45:48):
stone point and stuff like that. Yeah, no, not not now.
I might go to a long bow at some point,
which really might maybe a lateral transition. You know, it's
not really that different the um I don't not so
much um right now? That could change. Um really, if
I didn't have the love for photography and in photographing

(46:08):
other people's hunts, that might be different. But if I
get to a point where, um, you know, I'm like, yeah,
you know, this is still fun, but man, I'd really
like to go with you know, Clay on a hunt.
I probably just travel around photographing hunts and occasionally hunting. Um,
I don't think that that's gonna do You hear older

(46:28):
hunters talk about this transition, this natural transition inside of hunting,
and I bet you're just like me that when you
were thirty years old, you said, there's no way that
that's ever gonna happen. So the transition would be originally
you're just like interested in harvesting game, and then you

(46:49):
go to more goal orientation, which is like I want
to kill a specific animal in a specific way, in
a specific place. And then you get to this place
where you want to help others and and I've heard
some people talk negatively about that, like, man, I'll I'll
fight to never lose that drive to kill stuff. And
that's probably what I would have said ten years ago, Aaron,

(47:13):
because that's to me, that's a definer of a successful hunter,
is like this no quid attitude. And I mean, inside
of hunting, the goal is to harvest the target animal.
But and so I kind of feared that transition. But
I'm I'm thirty nine. I'm I'm thirty nine years old
the up check birthday here, and I sort of feel
it now I have I have four kids that hunt.

(47:36):
But I'm still massively driven for to harvest. And I'm
not saying that I don't want to, but I can
kind of see where, like and it's not something to
be afraid of, like getting to where you're talking about,
like where maybe there comes this point where you've proven
and I I track it inside of my help myself

(47:57):
by the goals that I've accomplished over the years, you know,
Like there was a point when I said, my goal
is to kill a three and a half year old
buck or older in Arkansas every year with a bow.
That was my goal when I was twenty five, and
at the time that was a massive goal in Arkansas
hunt is pretty tough. And I did it. I did
it for ten years and I was like, you know

(48:18):
what I can do that. I still enjoy killing the
buck in Arkansas with my bow. Um, now I've I've
transitioned to bears. I mean, like and then that's been
a lifelong thing. But like especially the last six years
with the magazine, it's like my my goals seemed to
be to travel all over North America killing bears in

(48:38):
different We just came back from Montown on spotting stock
mule based rifle hunt. I mean, and like that was
pretty thrilling to me, even from a long range. I mean,
we're carrying a best of the West long range husky
moss scope that I could have taken a bear at
a long ways And that was so different from what
I grew up in. It was kind of intriguing and

(49:00):
uh point being like, I've got this new set of goals,
but so are you afraid of that transitioner? No, it
could be a no brains, no headache thing, but um,
I don't think I'm gonna hit that transition. I'm different
in that way. If if as far as like being
uh without coming off sounding like a Neanderthal and I'm

(49:20):
desk Lander, He'll tell you you got about put a
shot caller on me. I haven't you know, people like, oh,
you'll be better trophy hunters you get older. Not so much.
It's not hitting me too much. I mean, being as
honest as I can be. Um, it's pretty bad. Um,
it's still bad. Like I haven't calmed down much and
but if it evolves, I mean, you know, that's maybe

(49:42):
my brain doesn't work quite that way. And I think
that in some ways, I guess it has evolved to
a little bit, but some of it's just by the
structure of the hunt. Meaning if I go to Oklahoma
and they say don't shoot a five and a half
year or a four and a half or younger buck,
I'm very very good obedient. I don't want to screw
that up. I shoot a five and a hal af
year old deer. The problem is, if I didn't have

(50:02):
that rule, there's no telling what I would shoot. Um.
I mean, I'm not saying I'm gonna shoot a for key,
but I probably would have some trouble maintaining that five
and a half year old. That's just me um And
and Landers will be the first guy to tell you
that I am the happiest guy alive, whether it's a
hundred fifty a hundred ninety in deer, and I just
like hunting. Um. Now, I want to get beat up

(50:23):
in the middle of it. I don't want to give
me two deer. I want to work for one. And
it's hard for people to understand because everybody's brains work differently.
I would rather see a guy earn a hundred and
fifty inch mule deer than shoot a gimme two hundred.
The deer doesn't matter to me, it's the story behind it,
and a lot of guys didn't believe that until they hunted,

(50:44):
with me Lander being one of them, I truly wanted
to see. I. I like the adventure of the hunt,
and the animal is kind of I'm not taking away
from the animal. I'm just saying that the animal is
a byproduct of the hunt. The hunt is what's important.
But I also think that if you're out, they're not
taking animals. You know, maybe take up golf or maybe
put some more effort into it, unless you just like

(51:05):
to hike around. Because a lot of people seem to hunt.
To just go hunting, there's nothing wrong with that, but
you also have to you know, you can't. You can
only blame yourself, and so maybe you should focus less
on buying the coolest, newest gear and maybe focus more
on theo craft and shooting your bow or something. Um.
Not to get off the subject to that, but you

(51:25):
get out of it what you put into it. And
you can't believe anybody but yourself. Okay, last traditional archery
question unless you want to talk about something else there.
So inside of all this, uh, all this talk with
the clumb method, which I've been I've been just recently
kind of following some of that, and and and and
it's influenced some of the things that I'm doing some

(51:47):
of some of it. I told Colby some of these things.
I mean, I was kind of I mean, I didn't.
It wasn't a dramatic, dramatic shift with a few things, Aaron,
what would you say is the most impacting thing inside
of your traditional archery form and shot? So we're getting
like tech nerd traad archery because I know there's all

(52:09):
these there's all these different things that you could say.
What would you say it would be the most the
most critical component of an accurate shooter in terms of mechanics. Man,
it'd be hard to pick just one um. In fact,
I'm not gonna do it because then that would like
sell it way short. But I would have to say,

(52:30):
just um, the general shot execution, as far as the
proper steps um that you take initially, meaning you know,
having this I'm gonna simplify it, having the same anchor
point every time, having the same clean release every time.
Repeatability is extremely important. But I'm gonna squirrel, I'm gonna

(52:51):
rabbit hole really bad. I just read an article in
a magazine that basically pooh pooed on three under and
gap shooting, and you can't be success full that way. Um,
that's what I do. And I've shot more animals and again,
sound and arrogant anyone I know of in two years
that humble comment. And this is where that's where I

(53:13):
get in trouble is is statements like this, And I'm
not saying it is a bragging thing. What I'm saying
is if one guy wants to snap shoot and swing shoot,
I'm not gonna stop him, right. But to say that
the method that I was taught by through Tom Clumb
can't be successful hunting, well, I'm living proof that that
is a lie. That is wrong. And how many snapshooters

(53:34):
do you know? They can't hit a bullet. I'm about
to cuss, I'm gonna rewind. They can't hit a barn wall. Yeah,
they can't hit a barn wall from the inside of
the barn. I know a lot of them. A lot
of them actually give me crap about the strugglestick comment
when I know they can't shoot worth the crap, I
mean it, it is what it is. I think that
if you get taught correctly out of the gate, you

(53:54):
can choose to snapshoot if needed. If you get taught
to snapshoot out of the gate, you cannot choose to
shoot correctly. And that's not really an argument. The sun
will come up tomorrow, It is as sure as that.
How many snapshooters do you know? They have to close
their eyes to hold a full draw pretty much everyone?
I know how many guys that to that go to

(54:15):
full draw and operate a c clicker correctly? Can you say, hey,
will you snapshoot quick? And they can snap shoot? Yeah?
So you're saying if you build the foundations right, then
you have totally a lot more options inside you're shooting.
As long as you've got mental control. Um, you can do.
I mean, I snap shoot white tails all the time
if they walk by and I gotta I'm not saying
run by, but walking by, I can snapshoot. I'm not

(54:36):
pulling through the clicker. Um, if it's a noise situation
where there's a chance that that buck might I know
when it's going to go off. To a certain degree.
If I have to, you know, just start my back
tension and fire a little early. I've made a conscious
decision when to shoot that bow. When you're a snapshooter,
there's no conscious decision. It hits your face and it's

(54:57):
it's gone. There are some people that are decent that way,
but for the most part, Um, the swing snap shooting
is in my very short career, is a recipe for disaster.
For longer, instinctive shooting by fred Aswell, I'm talking about
fred Asbell. Yeah, don't follow anything that says um in

(55:19):
my opinion, Okay, okay, if you if you want to
have a lifelong history or a lifelong career of snapshooting
and target panic, read that book and memorize it. And
I'm not taking away from anything he's done for the sport.
The guy has been amazing for it. I'm just saying,
if you don't want to get target panic and you
want to be accurate, I would follow what That's the

(55:42):
book that Tommy had to shoot traditional archer here. Yeah,
and I can't say that I totally follow it, but
the the ideas of instinctive shooting that he like, I
still I did snapshoot for years, and dude, just I
do to some degree still today and I and I

(56:02):
want to tell you just my little just a short spill,
but some of the ideas that he gave me gave
me some foundations about bow arm A draw that was
going to the same place every time, clean release. Now
he was split fingers. At one point I saw Barry Winsell,

(56:25):
I think, shoot three under. I had trouble for ten
years with accuracy shooting split fingers, and one day I saw,
I think it was Barry Winsell shoot with three under,
and it just made snit sense. I literally got out
of my turn the TV off of watching the DVD
or something, went and got my bow and my shooting
was like incredibly better. But let's see where am I

(56:50):
going with this. I so that did give me some
good foundation, just some mechanics. The idea that that bow
will you the same every single time if you do
the same thing every single time. Um, But that and
I'm not arguing that can't be argued. And that's what

(57:11):
There's things he says that I agree with. There's other
things that are a recipe. Well, let's say he's got
the strongest mine in the world, which he must have
if he's never had target panic, um, the snapshooting letter,
riptater chip. If you can do that, yeah, you're not
going to have a problem. The problem is that most
people can't. I think it's close range. And this is

(57:34):
what I was gonna say. And my focus inside of
traditional archery has not has been to kill game inside
of fourteen yards. That in in in the way that
I've done it, that's worked for me. I've I've I've
wounded and missed less game with the traditional bow that

(57:54):
I have with my compound. But it's because I've I've
the style of hunting that which I'm not hunting out
a way trying to stock a muleteer and get a
forty yards shot, not hunting mountain goat. You know I'm hunting.
So so I go back to that to say, you know,
it does work if you have certain limitations. And that's
the one thing I remember fred Asbo in his book
saying is that and this doesn't go against you, please

(58:18):
don't take it that but don't worry about that, but
that you can either become a better shooter, you can
become a better hunter. And so he was like, get closer.
I mean, that's what I remember him saying. That's a
twenty five year old reading that book. It was like, yeah,
so if I can shoot this bow, and really for
years it was ten yards. If I gotta get within

(58:38):
ten yards a game, and then I can tend ring them.
And so that became this cool concoction for me. That
was fun and and and so. Anyway, so when I
see guys like you, which i'm uh, you know, shooting
at forty yards, man, I can't shoot at fort yards.
I did challenge you jokingly on Facebook the other day
and said that I could teach you something about traditional archery.

(58:59):
I think knew that was a joke private message, of course.
But it's never been my goal to shoot forty But
I have been tried to be as good as I
could out to fifteen killed some game out past twenty.
But you know, and I don't and I'm trying again.
I'll say it, I said it earlier. I'm not taking
anything away from what that man has done for the sport,

(59:20):
right yeah, I mean, but what I am saying is, um,
if you, um well, I could pick a ton of
different other athletes, but let's just focus on this. If
if well, we're gonna use me for an example, and
I'll take the brunt of it. And inside of a
year with Tom Clumb, I was shooting paper plates are
smaller at forty yards, winning pretty much every tournament I

(59:45):
went to and shooting very well and having some success
with hunting animals all over the place. I don't think
that could be argued that that will work. Now will
it work? And I and I've talked with the guys
at Black Widow that um aspell whole to class there
and it's ten fifteen yard shots. If that's what you're into,

(01:00:05):
I'm not gonna man. I'm the last guy to tell
you to shoot farther. But I'm also I'm not going
out there too. I'm going out there to shoot something.
And uh, if I'm proficient at thirty four, that's gonna
up my odds the forty yards a bit far. I've
taken two animals at forty and it's certainly not what
I prefer. But um you know, if there's a dear

(01:00:25):
bed at thirty two, I can shoot softballs at thirty
two all day. Do you want to close that distance
by half? Or do you want to kill it where
it lays? I'm gonna kill it where it's laying. UM,
and if I can shoot closer. I've shot animals at
four ft and at forty three yards and pretty much
everywhere in between. I just don't think you can do
it consistently past fifteen to eighteen without Tom's Yeah, I

(01:00:48):
agree with it. I mean, that's been so before, and
I'm starting to be influenced by I'd love to go
do a class with him. UM, but what you just
said is exactly right. I with the methods that I've used,
I have been very proficient out the fift eighteen yards.
And I mean, and that's problem maybe the limitation of
a guy that is shooting that, and there's plenty of

(01:01:12):
guys that could shoot better than that, because I think
inside of that, then there's like the individual talent and
skill and hand eye coordination and ability of the individual archer,
which varies greatly. There's some guys that are just naturals,
some guys that are not. I think I'm probably in
the you know, I'm proficient with it. I'm I'm I'm
in there. I'm not gonna say where I think I'm

(01:01:33):
at point being I think I think that sometimes, especially
the traditional archery world there's so much uh. Well, I
think a guy's goals have to be factored in, and
you're such a you're such a great uh and dominant
personality inside of it. I guess you know it's not

(01:01:55):
the only way. You know, what I'm saying, What you're
saying the thousand percent right to be accurate out to forty.
I'm totally convinced after what I've heard that, but a
guy could still be successful inside of snapshooting just getting
into fifteen yards. Yeah, and the big thing, just so

(01:02:17):
I'm not taking too far out of context. How many
people do you know are gonna be on the ninth
they have a mule deer hunt snapshooting consistently or whatever
you wanna call it, and have an animal at twenty
and not take the shot, not more than any And
so for for me, and again, I'm green, right, I
just started doing this. That guy's been in here longer

(01:02:38):
and I've been alive. Okay, so again, but it's gonna
be hard to convince me that the most that that
what Tom teaches is not the most proficient way, because
you can choose to snap shoot with Tom, sister. I
like that. I like what you just said that, and
I think it probably is, but only that's all I know.
But what I you know when I say that's all

(01:02:59):
I know, I know of a bunch of thirty eight
forty five year old to sixty year year old men
that can't hold the string to their face without closing
their eyes and literally short draw. And they tell me
their bows seventy pounds at twenty eight, but they're drawn
to a solid twenty five and a half because they're snapshooting.
And I'm going off of what i've seen, and again

(01:03:19):
I'm very blunt and very open. You can't take away
what I've seen because I've seen it, and you can't
take away the fact that I see guys that can't
hit the bail at twenty yards and I'm not This
isn't just the compound guys, the same way I'm not
picking on trad archers. What I what I what I've seen, though,
is tom take a guy brand new green, mold that

(01:03:39):
guy into someone who's proficient in a very short period
of time at twenty yards. He may never shoot past twenty,
but he's also not going to suffer from target panic
as quick. He's not going to suffer from short drawing
is quick and when you um, well you're overbowed. But
when you use the snapshooting method, it is very own

(01:04:00):
to short drawing. Short drawing is bad. And um, trying
to keep me out of this too too much? Um,
I look at um the god, how' m gonna put
this back in too much trouble? Um. There was a
reason when I got into traditional archery, I didn't want
to get into it. Okay, there wasn't really a spokesman,

(01:04:22):
and I'm not saying I'm a spokesman, but there wasn't
a spokesman that made it cool. Um, there's a lot
of spokesman that make it cool. Now. That doesn't mean distance.
That just means it's a cool thing to do. Um.
And it's highlighted the the the reasons why you should
be doing it to make it I say cool, but really,
for two people want to do. What I always said

(01:04:44):
was that trad archery. When I was growing up, shooting
three D targets with my dad was all the old
men's shot trad It was an old man's sport. But
but now we've got this, this this cast of people
that are making it cool. Yeah, I mean I'm excited
at about it because it's changed me. It's not only
just a hunter, but as a person. And I'm and
I don't know if I'm hunting for different reasons, but

(01:05:06):
I'm I'm certainly um out there for the challenge, you know.
And and and I don't want to think that I'm
picking on the old crowd or as Bell. I'm just
stating what I've seen. And it would be interested to
have Tom and fred Is on a debate. I would
like to hear them go back and forth. I'm not
gonna be able to do it. I've done long enough.

(01:05:28):
They're gonna be like this guy's I bet they would.
And I don't want to pit them against each other though, Aaron,
you know, I mean like their methods are different, for sure,
but just like in anything, there's different ways to do
stuff with different goals. And and man, both of those guys,
in my mind are are iconic heroes the traditional archery,

(01:05:49):
I mean, you know, But and I certainly wouldn't look
at it as putting them against each other. What I
would do is it gives to people to you know, waste, okay,
Republican Democrat for guys green and just getting into you
know who am I going to vote for. You're not
putting two people against each other. You're just hearing and
then they can choose for them. So I don't think

(01:06:10):
there's any I don't think there's any conflict really, like
in terms of I think people when they see Clumb's method,
that makes sense. I mean to me, and and I am.
I told you, I was absolutely influenced by Asbell with
his book. I've got it on my shelf. It's like
it's like an iconic book taught me, got me started.

(01:06:31):
And when I started seeing this stuff with Clum, I
was like, yeah, that makes sense. What he's saying makes
a ton of sense. And and and I and I'm
and I'm kind of gradually moving that direction. So I mean,
and I think what we're seeing inside the traditional archery
world is a natural progression that we find inside of everything.
I mean, there's there's people that there's a way of

(01:06:52):
doing things, and then all of a sudden, there's a
new generation of people that say, hey, there's a there's
a better way to do this. And then there's gonna
be some people for the old that pick on that
guy and get mad at him. But you know, and
I think that's not really the the part to focus on,
you know, but I think I think what you're doing
is awesome. It's helping me that That's all I can
say is that, Um, it really has. It's inspired me

(01:07:16):
to be a better traditional archer. Uh. And I think
it's working. It is because the stuff that I'm following
and checking out clumb and Tyler Friel a friend of mine, uh,
rights for Barony magazine something I know he's been with
clumb And Uh. Now, it's cool stuff. It really is.
It's cool stuff. I like it. I like the fact
that it Um. When I started, there wasn't anyone to

(01:07:37):
go to. Okay, there wasn't any social media guy. South
was one, but South South like South a mule deer guy,
not a When I say, I've never can rem a
lot better now than he did when I first met him.
He shoot pretty good now? I mean does he do it?
Is he? He's got a clicker on in the whole
nine cards? Colby, How are the mules fantastic? They're just

(01:07:58):
chilling out in there. Just should pellets? You should have
given some pellets. Uh. I think that Um, when um,
you know you're never going to be able to make
traditional archery a long distance sport. Um meaning it's just
just capabilities of it, right, I mean, you just can't.
You can't shoot far accurately no matter how I mean.

(01:08:21):
There's times that I'll shoot a paper plate at fifty
sixty yards of have something I can hold on with
my point over not a shot I'm gonna taken. I mean,
I guess on a second arrow, I might attempt that,
but you hit it the first time. Yeah, exactly. If
I've made a shot and I think, man, this is
I need another arrow in it. But um, well, Randy
and Denny, Randy Cooling and Denny Sturgis said you should

(01:08:42):
at least have a plan for a longer shot. I
agree with that. You know, it's not a bad idea.
You get one and you need to get another one
in it. You should at least have a decent idea
rather than just gripping and ripping. Um. They they face
walk the different anchor points, which I never messed. That's
not my cup of tea. Um well, have you ever

(01:09:03):
read like Fred Beresfield notes, Okay, shot at forty went
under it, shot at at fifty went under it, shot
at sixty went under it hit it in the fomorl
at seventy Okay, Well, obviously the founder of archery was
winging him out there. Okay, if it doesn't take too
long to read that. I think he shot his leopard
at a hundred in some yards. I don't remember. It's far. Okay.

(01:09:27):
I'm not saying follow that footsteps or you should do that.
They can't do that anymore? Um right? For what why
is that? Why can't we why can't we follow up? Well,
I'm not disagreeing with you, but I'm not saying we
should say because the world is so much more transparent
than it used to be because of social media. Yeah,

(01:09:47):
so I'm agreeing with you. No, I'm just saying I
wanted you to say it. Everything's out there now, right right,
So it's should we or shouldn't we? We should certainly
shouldn't post it, okay, with that's without a doubt, no
one should see that, should we? As far as accuracy,
probably not, because I don't think very many people are
that accurate at that distance. When I say that distance

(01:10:09):
past forty forty and n forties uh ten percent of
the time five percent of the time, meaning right person,
right place, right time, probably let maybe five inside of twenty. Yeah,
it's an eighty percent right inside a for the most
part that forty it's all on each person. Most people,
if they're in the woods, are gonna be accurate after

(01:10:30):
eighteen or twenty they probably shouldn't be in the ones. Again,
pretty hard to get closer than ten yards. My looking
at this, starting out with a compound where I could
shoot over a hundred consistently, I had to immediately change
my hunting style, right, I totally war reversal. I had
to become more patient. I had to see animal behavior. Well,

(01:10:54):
when the animal stands up at seventy and you just
shoot it, you're not seeing a lot of animal behavior
now at seventy that maybe four were more hours before
I get to take a shot. So it's it's made
me and what I would hope that it would help
other people is become more of an animal afficionado. You're
becoming a better hunter as you do this. Does the
forty yard thing help? Oh? Yeah? The fact I can

(01:11:16):
shoot forty in paper plate the softball sizes, it puts
me a step above where I can take that shot
in the right situation. That right situation is generally a
bet animal because yeah, yeah, and the bows are quiet
enough that they generally don't hear it go off. Um.
And I've got a point to all of this. I

(01:11:37):
think that when people look at traditional archery, I think
they should look at it as you say, progression. You know,
that's one way to look at it. If you're bored
with the compound, you should pick up a stick book.
If you suck with the compound, pick up a stick bow.
You are already suck, right, um, stick bost funder and
And I hate to be that blunt, but it's true.

(01:11:59):
If you're just on a good shot with a compound,
pick up a stickbow, start from scratch, get coaching. I
can tell you now, it's a hell of a lot
fun or to suck with a stick bow than it
is with a compound, because with a stick bow you
can stump shoot, you can shoot squirrels, you can shoot
things you just can't really do with the compound. Um.

(01:12:19):
That probably sounded harsh, but it's true. You know a
lot of know a lot of guys that aren't real
proficient out the thirty with a compound. I'm like, dude,
pick up a stickbow, start over you've already got all
these bad habits and grain in your brain. With a compound,
you can start from start fresh. Yeah, exactly. And I
think I try to point people in that direction. And
there's some guys that should shouldn't have a stickbow or

(01:12:39):
a compound in their hand, you know, there's some guys
that they should maybe not be hunting. Um when I
say that mean they need to put more effort into it, maybe,
is what I should say. So anyway, I'm going down
to rabbit hole here. Well, the to me, what I've
always liked about traditional archery is that, and I think

(01:13:01):
Aaron is the reason that I got into it originally.
Now it took me a while to get like deep
into it. Was because you cannot fake being a tread
bow shooter, I mean, and and that's the thing. Like
compound archery is so proficient, Like compound the technology of
a compound bow is so proficient. I can take my

(01:13:22):
daughter out and within two hours of buying her a
new compound bow, she can pretty much be ready to
bow hunt a white tail deer inside of fifteen yards
and probably two hours minus adrenaline proficiency hit a target
and uh man, you can't fake being a tread archer
and be successful. Now you can get lucky, you can,

(01:13:44):
but I mean you, and I think that to me
is probably one of the bigger things that I like
about it. And what I respected about these old traditional
archers that I didn't know is that they were authentic.
And I think, to me, that's that's probably in me,
like the magnetism that I see that I that I

(01:14:05):
like inside of people's when I see somebody that's authentic
and a lot and some of the traditional archers and
specifically I'm talking about I doubt he'll listen to this podcast,
but my brother's father in law, David Albright of Bowyer
in Arkansas, Man, when when he talked to me about
bow hunting, and I was a compound archer when I
was in my early twel in my early twenties when
I was talking to him about traditional archery, and I

(01:14:27):
was like, man, that's the way to bow hunt. And
and to this day I still shoot some compound, but
but I recognized that you couldn't fake what he was
doing and be successful. That's what I like about it.
I'm looking up David Albright, where have I heard that
name before? What he's he's a bowyer. I don't even
know if you'll find David online. David is a David

(01:14:50):
is as he's my brother's father in law. Have been
making bows for years and years. He killed a hundred
and fifty five inch deer on a public ground and
the Washington Mountains of Arkansas with his trad bow this year.
First I've heard that name before, and there's only reason why.
That's why I's playing with my phone to look it up.

(01:15:11):
But man, I I agree. I just met Marv Clinky,
who's like a legend in Colorado, for the first time,
like an hour and a half ago. Um, and uh,
I just said, hey, it's it's an honor to meet
you in not knowing the guy, and I'm I'm you know,
I'm not taking away he's done more for traditional archer
and called bow hunting in Colorado than anyone in my opinion.

(01:15:34):
It's the fact I know what he's killed and I
know how close he's killed it, and that's amazing to me.
I'm enamored by that, especially coming from the compound and
then the first year kind of having the you know,
pit for stumbling and everything else, and then gaining more
and more success and knowing what it takes, the fact
you might be laying there for five or six hours

(01:15:58):
at sixty yards to hopefully get shot. Well, how many
times has he done that? The dudes seventy eight years old? Okay,
so he's done that a lot, right, Who knows how
many times? Because he's gotta pile a big deer on
the wall high country bucks. Um. And so I agree.
I mean to me, like, um, some of the guys
that are super are successful with the stickbow. Um. You

(01:16:19):
know I'm looking at there's a lot of admiration there
for what they've done. And they didn't have Tom's clinic,
so you know you're there shooting at close. I mean,
you know when I say Tom, there's other the push
guys are really helpful. Joel's kind of a brain doctor turner.
And and then you know there's um a coach that
Randy and Denny use a lot, and he's kind of

(01:16:40):
the same as Tom as far as that goes. Uh,
I just forgot his name, good, Uh Rod Rod Jenkins.
He's another coach down south that's um, you know, great
for you know, kind of teaching more of the Tom
and I argue sometimes I'll say that right now when
it comes to his methods and what I he taught

(01:17:04):
me and how I've morphed him. Do you want to
talk about this at all? As I'm running at the mouth,
what whatever you want? Man? Um all that? I want
all that. The next thought I have in my mind
is I want to talk to you. I want to
tell you about my bow. Okay, the uh the thing
with Tom is there's things that he taught me more
Feta style shooting that I have not done. I hunch
over right, I can't, Um, I don't curl the wrist

(01:17:28):
this much, and and and do uh draw into the
clicker like he teaches? Because I think it's harder to
draw into the clicker that way consistently with an animal
in front of you. So even though I should be
drawing that way, I draw differently because my clicker goes
off at a different time and I wanted to be consistent. Um,
I don't think that alignment. UM you know, the release

(01:17:51):
things like that can be argued, whether it's as Bell
or Tom. That needs to be the same every time, Right,
you got to do that? UM. Where I think that um,
people uh struggle not necessarily as just the coaching. They
get a bow their six ft one and have a
twenty nine inch draw, and their buddy gives them a
fifty six inch bow and the arrows aren't flying right
and they don't know what to do. So the moral

(01:18:13):
of my story is here, whosever path you follow, find
someone to you need help in the beginning. You're not
gonna just walk into it like a compound. You can
wing it and still be successful. You can't wing it
with a open you can't wing it with a stick bow.
But go ahead and tell me about your bow now.

(01:18:34):
So the bow that I'm currently shooting and have shot
for several years now, or the brand would be a
timber ghost traditional bows. And we talked about it at
one time, and I tried to get Can't to send
you one at the time, but you we didn't. It
just didn't work out. But what I'm shooting right now
is a timber ghost. It calls the G three S S.
It's a takedown bow, it's a it's a it's a

(01:18:58):
um bell, a belly mount limb limbs or belly mounted,
kind of like the Black Widow eron, but it has
a superstatic The S S of the G three S
S stands for superstatic and it's one of the fastest bows,
recurved bows on the planet. It looks like it'd be fast.

(01:19:19):
It's got some curly tipped limbs on that. Yes, and
it's uh man, it's it's it feels super good in hand,
it's quiet, it's pretty short. Um, he makes different sized risers.
I've got the thirteen inch riser. I think I'd rather
have an eleven inch riser. But super sweet bow Man

(01:19:40):
for real, Kent. I think it's doing some stuff that's
pretty revolutionary. Um inside inside the tread bow, you know,
the bow of your world. But anyway, uh, you ought
to shoot it. I got it out in the truck. Yeah, yeah,
I got my targets in the back, so um, we
can do that. I'm looking at it now. I I
definitely have fallen in love with the widow. I've shot

(01:20:03):
a pile of different bows, though. Um, I uh, I'm
one of those I say, weird guys, but like five
inch feathers, I get crap about shooting five inch feathers. Well,
I've killed a lot of stuff with five inch feathers.
I'm free to switch. I mean I said that on
a podcast the other day, They're like, why don't you
shoot smaller feathers, And I'm like, well, I'm not dropping
bombs at eighty yards. Wind isn't really first and foremost

(01:20:25):
wind drift. In my mind, I'm trying to shoot things
sub twenty, so I don't worry about it. But yeah,
that looks like that is a slick looking bow. Yuh.
He gets a good guy, cancer really kinds a good
friend of He's a bow you're there in Arkansas. He's
actually the My favorite bow that he makes, though, is
the Smoke Smoke Bow, which is a fifty six inch

(01:20:46):
hybrid longbow, and I feel like I just shoot it
really well, but the riser is really small and I'm
not I'm not a big guy, so I like a
smaller bow. But anyway, I'd love for you to just
hold it in your hand out there, Aaron. You could.
You can shoot Narra out of it. But man, when
you ditched me for in British Columbia, um, I actually

(01:21:08):
hadn't planned on shooting trad in my spring bear season.
And so like three weeks ago, Jeff Lander was like, Hey,
Aaron's gonna be in camp. You got to come. That's okay,
I'll come. So, Kobe, what did I do? I started
shooting the trad bow out of the global headquarters of
Bear Hunting magazine lot and and I'm being completely transparent, man,

(01:21:31):
I had put the bow down and and hadn't shot
that much. But but I carried it to Montana on
this rifle hunt. And we were planning on shooting every day,
but I ended up stinking chasing bears so hard. We
we had a tough We had a tough hunt. Awesome,
incredible adventure, incredible monumental thing for me. Uh, Aaron, I've

(01:21:52):
had a goal. I trained mules, and that's a new
thing in my world. Didn't grow up doing it. But
three years ago train the mule. My goal was to
take the Montana and bear hunt on it. And so
this was, uh, this was the completion of that quest.
And uh, long story short, we were in the back
country so much I didn't even get to shoot. But
I'm going to British Columbia next week and I'm gonna

(01:22:14):
have to do some clean up. But I'm I'm gonna
have to shoot. I'm shooting good, but yeah, you're stacking
him in there. But yeah, Jeff, we gonna have to
get closer. Funny. He called me and said, uh, can
you not shoot one? It's I grew super quick. And
I'm like, I don't. Yeah, whatever, man, I don't. I've
shot a bunch of them. When you what do you
want me to wait for? You said, Clay's coming up.

(01:22:35):
Can you wait to shoot one until he gets there?
And I'm like, yeah, man, I'll wait if you want
me to. I've had good success. We were gonna fill
me man, which is good because I hate being on film. Um,
it's funny the first uh, And I'll try and keep
this short. The well, I shot a turkey with my
bow and sixteen was the first animal. But when I
had had gone up there, um, you know I had

(01:22:58):
all these things people were telling me, the clums and anyway,
all these different Uh you know that your hunt begins
where it ends with the compound, and you know, yeah, yeah,
And it was true. Went up with this stock and
I'm looking at this Barrett forty yards and I'm thinking
you would be so dead if I had my compound

(01:23:19):
right and and came back out, went back in on
a different approach, and I don't know what I was
forty something from it, and um, I'm like, I just
don't think I can hit it, you know, And even
now I wouldn't take the shot, and I can shoot forty,
just bad angle and everything else. So I mouse squeaked
and it came right in and um, they're kind of
blind and it stood on this log above me close

(01:23:42):
and I thought, I'm just gonna shoot it on a
frontal you know. I taken lots of elk on a
frontal deer and a shot and uh, whether I collapsed
or crap my pants or whatever, shot between its feet.
And Tom Senior told me, you will kill multiple animals
on your second arrow, guaranteed. They don't know what's gone
off with a com pound. That's a done deal. They're
they're gone. Bear kind of picked up his paw and

(01:24:04):
looked at it, and I thought, what I shoot his
toenail off cheese and put it back down, turned broadside
and I'm like, okay, okay, I got another chance, and
I hit him on that one, and uh, it was
a big thing because you know, picking up the stick
and am I gonna be able to do this? And
it was great with landers and it was ended up
being a big bear. Did I write an article that
was in magazine the first traditional archills in Bear Honey,

(01:24:28):
Big Gamekiller, Game Kill, so you know I had done that,
and then uh, you know, fast forward a little bit
did pretty well at tournaments and I'm like, you know,
this isn't gonna be that bad. Well then opening DAYA
of season elk and deer, Um, I missed a deer
three times at seventeen twenty something and I don't know,
and uh so we hunted some more for elk after that,

(01:24:51):
and I think I clipped an elk in the leg
and I had lots of other shots I didn't take
that I would have but I just didn't feel comfortable with.
And we came back. Um, you know, it's probably September
five or something, so six seven days in the season,
and um came back for a couple of days from
the elk hunt, and Frank and I went out for
a day hunt and I end up shooting a mule

(01:25:12):
deer at four ft um like literally my broadhead was
pine between its antlers when I drew back like close close.
Frank's on all photos and that was the super addicting thing.
I would have never done that, you know, it was
one of those I'm in my socks and uh end
up standing on the rock above it, shoot it straight down, unbelievable. Well,

(01:25:33):
by some miracles, end up killing an elk short a
few days after that. Well, anyway, fast forward, I'm in
Alberta with with Jeff, and I didn't know the success
right up there with a stick bow. It was like
point one per cent, right, So I get a shot
on the second day that I missed and I end
up killing a tank. It's on the wall out there

(01:25:54):
on whatever day it was. And and Jeff says, you're
the third one. And I'm like, third one? What? And
He's like, a third one to kill a guy? Kill
one with stickbow up here in like eighteen years. And
I'm like, well, you didn't tell me that crap when
you told me to come up here and a hunt.
I and ended up being a big deer. And I'm like,

(01:26:15):
all right, I can do this right, And I think that, um,
the the help I guess what I'm leading up to
is because of Lander and Tom and other guys, my
buddy Paul and many other people. The help they've given
me has been I mean, it can't be quantified in
with shooting a stick bow, right, And I try to

(01:26:35):
be that person for other people now, because it is
something that will I mean, it'll change your life in
my opinion if you if you really stick with it. Yeah, yeah,
that's all I have to say about that. Right on, man,
right on? How long have we been going, Kobe? One
hour and four minutes and seconds? Thanks, thanks for taking

(01:26:55):
the time to meet up with Aaron. I really appreciate it. Man. No,
I appreciate you guys having me on here. And I'm yeah,
I'm sorry. I had to be an adult for a
little bit and be at work, so I'm sorry I
stood you up in BC. But look at it this way.
That's more bears for you. More bears, more bears. Well, um, close, Kobe.
Any closing questions or anything that we had. I mean,

(01:27:17):
I didn't really have a massive agenda there, and I
just wanted to come by and see Kafaru. I want
to see some of the stuff, wanted to wanted to
outshoot Aaron uh in the back here just quickly now,
I'm kidding. We probably got to go pretty quick, but
we're driving home to Arkansas tonight. We got about a
twelve hour driving front of us, all right, I think,
just to summit up just from like listening and stuff.

(01:27:40):
It sounds like one of the things you really do
is just surround yourself with like good people and mentors.
You know. It sounds like you grow a lot from
just taking away positive aspects from other people. I think.
So that's a good trait to have, definitely, and guys
that keep you in check. If you surround yourself with
people that tell you you're awesome all the time, pretty
soon you can do no wrong. I between Brian Broderick

(01:28:01):
and Clay and Tom and Lander, I am I am
constantly put in check, which I think is also a
good thing. So yeah, I've got I got one more.
I got one more thing, you know. So So I
just moved to Arkansas from Texas and my legs are
not uh up to part yet. So we went to
Montana and man, I was just I was struggling, and

(01:28:23):
so I remember one part like we were doing something
on the mountain and your voice came in my head
and just had suck it up. Buttercup, I don't even
know if you've ever said that. I say it all
the time, but there's a lot of other things I
say to Did it help it? Did it? Did it?
Did well, it just I realized that I realized that
my fitness isn't gonna get me up this mountain. I
just gotta get tough, you know, you gotta have some

(01:28:44):
mental toughness and pushed through. So yeah, because I was
pretty sure you had actually said that, because the first
podcast I think I ever listened to was to put
it on your voice, smel suck it up, butter Cup,
Suck it up, Buttercup. Hey, Kobe only fell off the
meal one. Um good mulet eight miles on mules in

(01:29:06):
less six days. Uh yeah, I'm not not so much
for me. I'm not not. I mean, what is uh
their dodgy in the front and back and untrustworthy in
the middle. Um yeah, yeah that's about I rode one
with with bar to horse on the goat hunt, and
I ejected off at several times. I got really good
at ejecting off, which, um no, I uh, I know.

(01:29:28):
I'm glad I can help, and I truly, Um, I
hate to say it, I know more overweight successful hunters
than I do skinny ones. So there's something something to
be said about mental toughness. Um, it goes a long way.
I think that's a massive thing. That. You know, there's
so much of a trend inside outdoor outdoor world right
now about physical fitness, which is fantastic. It's a good
thing to be physically fit. It's a good thing to

(01:29:49):
take care of your body. But it's not the only thing.
I mean, and I'm not in any way trash. I mean,
you know, we gotta we gotta be physically fit to
be able to stay stay doing what we're doing as
long as we can. But that's my goal inside of
physical fitness is just I want to be I want
to be hunting, you know, when I'm sixty and seventy

(01:30:09):
years old. That means I got to take care of
my body. Means I can't be you know. But but
you don't have to be an ultra athlete to go
hunting and be successful. But it helps, it help you
look at well like ultra like with Cam Cam pretty
much on hunts on private land now and he's still
extremely fit right right, So, but you know he was

(01:30:30):
getting it done backpack hunting years ago. He didn't do
it as much now. But the thing that I try
to explain to people, if you were gonna tear importance, Okay,
shooting is important. Animal anatomy and is important, bushcraft is important,
and physical fitness is certainly not up in my opinion,
in the top three. They're important, but well, i'd say

(01:30:51):
fit fitness is mid road because if you're smart, you
know animal behavior, you can go up some mountain help
out slower than if you suck um animal behavior because
you're gonna blow it out and you're gonna have to
need physics. You're gonna need physical fitness. You know animal
behavior and you're smart and pushcraft. Physical fitness isn't important
because they're a good chance you'll get it done the
first time. And that's what I try to explain to guys.

(01:31:11):
And so you need you do need to have to
try to have the total package, right, Yeah, you know
for what the mule the reason I like hunting off
mules are and it is totally a I mean, I'm
from Arkansas and the ozark is kind of the mule
epicenter of North America and many rights in terms of
training and breeding, so it's kind of a cultural thing,
you know. I kind of enjoy that. I enjoy the
training of it. But on this hunt, and this was

(01:31:33):
the first time that I've done it myself, brought my
own animals and hunted. It was. It was massively successful
in terms of us of getting on game. Especially Cobby
just self admitted that he wasn't physically ready for Montana.
I told him we were going a week before we left, Okay,
so are disadvantage. I'm afraid to lookie and I here.

(01:31:55):
So he wasn't ready and and uh, and that's not
a shameful thing, it's just that that that's just the truth.
I wouldn't have been ready if you told me a
week before we went. But the mules compensated for that.
Now he had to be tougher in other areas because
he had to learn how to write a mule and
stay on it and not be afraid of it. And uh,
and he did awesome and that. But so anyway, it

(01:32:16):
was fun though it was. It was a ton of fun.
But Aaron, Hey, thanks a lot, man, I really appreciate it. Uh,
everybody knows where they can find Aaron Snyder's podcast Kafaro podcast.
Um and at least my bad Aaron writes, for the
last three or four years, you've written at least one article, Yes,

(01:32:39):
which is amazing because um, I write really for no
one else because I don't have time. But you like
me enough to write for you, or I like you
enough to write right. Well, Hey, you've been on the
cover of bar Hunting magazine twice. Thereon there you go.
If I write one on this predator hunt, will you
put me on there again? Well, if you kill a bear,
I can't put a mountain line on there, even though
I want mountain lion article. Are for real? Do Yeah?

(01:33:01):
I love mountain lion hunting and I think it ties
directly on with our bear houndsman. Uh like bart I mean,
anybody that's bear hunting with hounds that's gonna be interested
in big game hunting with hounds. So I totally want
a mountain lion article. Maybe I'll maybe I'll get a
big one with Barton June and I can wrap them
all together about hounds and everything. And I think that's

(01:33:22):
important that people understand the dynamic of hounds and how
important they are with predator control. Right on, right on? Well, hey,
thanks Aaron, And uh keeps the wild places wild because
that's where the barriers live. Thanks again,

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