Becoming Letterboxd Users: with Liz Purchell

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
These filmmakers, the ones that really cared and were really
trying to do good work. They were using sex as
a way of exploring these ideas of gay liberation. We're
still arguing about the merits of promiscuity versus monogamy or
you know, polly relationships or you know, I only have
one partner, Like, none of this stuff is new, and
I think people don't realize that.

Speaker 2 (00:27):
It wasn't an AMC, so I unfortunately am a loser.
I did not see Dune Too at AMC. I thowt
at one of the you know, just one of those
off label theaters, and I loved it.

Speaker 3 (00:39):
It was fucking amazing a theater that only serves like
doctor like not fuck, what's the off brand, like mister Pib,
Like like Doctor Spicey or something like that, like all
those like, well, mister Pib is the off brand. But
there's an even offer offer off brand of a Doctor Thunder.

(01:00):
It's called Doctor Wait, no, I think that's the off
brand Mountain too. I think my parents bought Doctor Thunder
one time and I was punching holes through the wall, like, Mom,
fucked up. I thought you loved me. Go back to
the store now and real Mountain mob. Yeah, but yeah,
you love Dune.

Speaker 2 (01:22):
Yeah, I fucking loved it. So I went in a
whole Dune journey this weekend. I watched Obviously, I went
back and rewatched the first one.

Speaker 3 (01:29):
You said you watched the mini series too, right.

Speaker 2 (01:32):
Well, I didn't watch the mini series no, but then
I watched the David Lynch mm hmmm, absolutely terrible. Well,
you know what, one thing I will say about the
David Lunch, one thing I will say about the Dame
absolutely terrible. It wasn't absolutely terrible. The visuals were actually stunning.
But one thing I will say about the David Lynch
is it was really really fucking good at explaining the

(01:53):
plot to me. Because if you don't understand what the
fuck is in Dune, go and watch the David Lynch one,
because they are like reading it to a baby.

Speaker 3 (02:01):
That's one of my problems with it is that it's
weird for a David Lynch movie on a lot of reasons.
But yeah, one of them being that David Lynch doesn't
explain things like that's like very key to like his
artistic process. Yeah, but in this movie he's just explaining
everything to you the whole Well, time. Have you read
the book? No, I have, and I can't read. Actually,

(02:24):
in the book, there's a lot of like each chapter
will be like from like someone's like perspective, and there
will be a lot of things where you like hear
like what's in their head. Like there'll be like something
in italics that's like and the Emperor thought that was
gay and yeah. So that's why in David Lynch's doing
there's so many scenes of like like it just like

(02:47):
hearing like someone's like thoughts, you know, which is weird.
It doesn't really work for me, but that's why it's there.
The worst part for me was the combat. I absolutely
hated those shields. Oh, I like the shield. I thought
I thought his idea for the shield was kind of cool. Honestly,
it was doing too much for me. I was just
like it was of its era. I thought it really was.

(03:11):
I think it's definitely overheated. I would agree with honestly
a lot of the criticisms, and I would also agree
that it's very will say it's outside of Lynch's wheelhouse
and every way possible. I would agree it's his worst
movie as well. But I don't think it's like I
don't know. I don't think it's terrible, Like it's cool.

Speaker 2 (03:33):
It wasn't terrible, But I do agree with what you
told me, and you said that it gets bad once
they get to like the Fremen village.

Speaker 3 (03:42):
Yeah, once they get to the seat, it's like it
all falls apart. It all falls apart because they're just
rushing to the end at that point.

Speaker 1 (03:49):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (03:49):
Yeah, the DNI did it a much smarter way by
trilogy having Yeah, well the first book is like two
books technique, and yeah, it ends more or less where
the first movie ends and ends more or less where

(04:09):
the second movie ends too, And also same with these
two new movies. The book. The second part of both
of them really feels like or the first part really
feels like just like a long exposition dump to get
to the second part, where the second part just has
all these payoffs, like like that's when you actually get

(04:33):
to like ride the worms and see like fight and
like cool shit like that.

Speaker 2 (04:37):
It was so Yeah, I just want to know how
they got off the worms. I just wish that they
would have shown that, because are they tucking and rolling?
Is that what's going on?

Speaker 3 (04:45):
They're just like they've had its head they're like, oh,
I don't I don't know. Actually I don't remember if
they explain that. I think they do. I think they
like slide down it somehow okay with the hooks or something. Well,
I went down another rabbit hole this morning. In the way,
I wanted to ask you one more thing about it.
What did you think of Austin Butler? Which one is

(05:06):
that guy? He's the freak ass the freak ass Billy
Corgan from a Tool music video that is so funny.
Oh my god, that is the fun Yes, do you
not know who that is? Yeah, well you look up
a picture of him. Let me see right now. He's
one of the hottest men that I've ever seen in

(05:27):
my life.

Speaker 2 (05:27):
I mean I thought he was hot looking like a
freak he played Elvis. Oh wow, he's super hot. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (05:37):
He's a very funny person too, because he's very weird,
like he's he's really weird in interviews. He's really like,
I don't know, he's just a very like truly like
weird little guy. But he's like beautiful in every single way. Yeah,
I don't know. I thought his role in it was
so fun like him, he was so I loved.

Speaker 2 (05:58):
The kiss the kiss between him and where they where
he kissed him and I was like, oh, that was
kind of gay, and then like he kissed him back,
and I was like, oh, that's a realer guy.

Speaker 3 (06:08):
No, I'm kidding. Well, you know this is interesting because
a long time ago we were talking to some trans girl.
I don't remember who it was, but she was asking us.
She was saying like, yeah, I love sci fi and
I think Sam was like a dueler Dune because Sam's
like an obsessed with Dune. And she was like, no, yeah,
She was like what's that? And I was like, how

(06:30):
do you not know what you just said? You're obsessed
with sci fi? Like how do you not like, how
have you never heard of Dune? That's crazy? But she
was like is it queer? I was like, it's and
I definitely has some like gender stuff.

Speaker 4 (06:45):
Eda.

Speaker 3 (06:46):
I mean, but if you need the media, you consume
to be queer, like kill me? No, I agree, you
know what I mean. But I do think that's an
interesting question because part was Paul. But Paul is like
non binary code very because.

Speaker 2 (07:02):
Oh, and isn't his dad like a eunuch in the book?
Where am I making that up? Okaysky made that up.
I want to talk about Hodorowsky in a second.

Speaker 3 (07:11):
Oh, I haven't watched that Hoskis too well, his dad
has a penis. Oh, okay, okay, No, there's a documentary
called Hodowski's Do.

Speaker 2 (07:21):
Yeah, I watched it this morning. I want to talk
about it. So I at five o'clock in the morning,
when my dog was shitting blood out of his bee
hole and throwing up on my linen duvet cover, I
got up and I started watching Howderoski's Dune and it
blew my fucking socks off. Okay, this movie, the fact

(07:42):
that it was never made is so infuriating, and it
really just comes down to the fact that, like Hollywood
didn't trust Howtorowski to direct this huge movie. They gave
it to David Lynch later on. But the crazy thing
was is that he put together this entire team of
like artists and producers and and people that later went

(08:04):
on to these other productions like Alien and fucking Dune,
David Lynch's Dune and made it what it is. And
the thing that I wanted to talk about the most
that really blew my mind was do you know who
the Emperor and the Princess were supposed to be in
Holderowski's Dune.

Speaker 3 (08:22):
Oh take a guess, crazy Spanish speaking crazy person. Fuck uh,
Javier Malay and Penelope Cruise. No, you have to think
of the era of the era. I don't know Gloria

(08:44):
Estefan and.

Speaker 2 (08:46):
I don't know is going to be played by Salvador
Deli and the Princess was going to be played by Amandlayer.
And if you know anything about me.

Speaker 3 (08:55):
You know that I'm waiting the trans woman.

Speaker 2 (08:58):
Well, Janie, that's controversial, okay, because she, yes, is probably
definitely most likely a trans woman. She's never officially.

Speaker 3 (09:10):
Yeah, people say that about me too.

Speaker 2 (09:12):
Yeah, she never officially come out, but so for all
we know, she's a sis woman.

Speaker 4 (09:19):
Bad.

Speaker 2 (09:21):
She was in the documentary. She like she like spoke
in the documentary. She was interviewed. It's really good. You
should watch it.

Speaker 3 (09:27):
I don't really like Kodowski.

Speaker 2 (09:28):
It's oh my god, I actually thought we were gonna
I it's not I actually likes I have a complex
feelings because I enjoy The Holy Mountain. I think it
has a lot of cool visuals in it, but it's
I rarely say this about movies because I generally like
stuff like this, but it is very like I hate

(09:50):
using this word, but it's like it's very weird for
the sake of being weird, and it has a lot
of stuff in it that I just know is like
just there to be like weird.

Speaker 3 (10:02):
And make you feel uncomfortably. Yeah. That being said, I
think there's a lot of cool shit in it that
I do like, but I just think he's up his
ass a little bit. And I also don't like that
he filmed a little literal like rape, like an actual
rape in one of his movies. I think, Yeah, in
the movie El Topo, there's a rape scene and they

(10:22):
like didn't like tell the actress like what they were
about to do.

Speaker 4 (10:26):
End.

Speaker 3 (10:27):
Yeah, it's really gross. It's really fucked up. So thank
you for educating me on. Yeah, I don't like him
for that. I think that's really bad, the same reason
I don't like Bertuluci. I think I think it's gross, but.

Speaker 2 (10:37):
Actually explains a lot about he actually in the documentary
because he's still alive and he's interviewed in the documentary.

Speaker 3 (10:45):
He's made some he's made a few movies in like
The Two Thousand Tons.

Speaker 2 (10:48):
Yeah, I will I will say he's not my favorite
Spanish speaking director. That would go to the one who
uses red and everything. What's his fucking looking?

Speaker 3 (10:59):
Oh my god, I'd tie me up, tie me down
and volvert that guy Pedrama Dovar. Yes, and he's got
that new movie with We talked about the skin I
live in with Hassa. I think, yeah, okay, anyway, or no,
we talk about it with Liz, I think yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (11:16):
Well, you know what, this has been a fun little
ramble down dune, dune corner. We had a duney corner,
dune lane. Should we talk about about what we're getting
into today and who are guests is? Since we just
mentioned her, yes, I would love to. Liz Prischelle is
a queer film historian, film preservationist and you'll probably hear

(11:40):
me say a lot of this again in like a second,
but she's awesome. She was someone I followed on letterbox
for a long time. I really wanted to have her
on because we love movies here and this is a
very very heavy movie centric episode with a very very
knowledgeable guest. So I I highly recommend any any movie

(12:02):
heads that like.

Speaker 3 (12:02):
Listening to us. I think this is going to be
a treat for you. She's going to give you a
lot of good education, a lot of very good recommendations.
And this is a really fun one. Hell yeah.

Speaker 2 (12:14):
Finally, it's the episode we've been leading up to. It's
our Letterboxed episode, the big gay Letterboxed episode. So Michael
becoming letterbox Users. Okay, that's the title of the episode
right there. Well, everybody, enjoy our conversation with Liz Perschelle. Well,

(12:44):
we're very excited about our guest today. Please welcome to
the pod.

Speaker 3 (12:47):
Everyone.

Speaker 2 (12:47):
We have Brooklyn based queer film historian, programmer, filmmaker, and
creator of Ask Anybody. Her name is Liz Perschelle.

Speaker 3 (12:56):
Hi, Liz, how are you doing good?

Speaker 1 (12:59):
How are y'all?

Speaker 3 (13:00):
I'm good. You're like the fifth person from Brooklyn we've
then this is just interviewing people.

Speaker 2 (13:05):
Yeah, now, this is just the Atlanta Interviews Brooklyn podcast
quite literally.

Speaker 1 (13:10):
I mean I was thinking going into this, I I
think it's funny to be on a podcast about transness
in the South, given that I just moved to New
York two months ago, you know where, from Austin, Texas,
and I'm from Campil, Florida.

Speaker 3 (13:22):
So you've got you're a person of Southern experience.

Speaker 1 (13:26):
Yeah, I had shared trauma.

Speaker 3 (13:28):
Yeah yeah, I mean in like the show description it
says that, like you know all that, but since I
joined the show, we've really like derailed what this show's
supposed to be of. I single handedly of derailed like
all the like seriousness of what this show is supposed
to be about. So all her Twitter shooters, now, yeah,

(13:50):
it is just me interviewing my Twitter followers. But yeah,
so it's it's not really like I mean, me and
Carmen do like to talk about like local stuff and
like I don't know that that kind of but I
feel like at this point like we've covered it, like
we I feel like there's not too much to say
about like harrowing religious trauma of like living in the

(14:13):
South and stuff like it's like we get it, you
get it. I need to beat you over the head
with uh.

Speaker 1 (14:19):
That's the stuff that gets the grants and the sponsorships.

Speaker 3 (14:22):
True. Actually, actually, can you cut that out and replace
it with me.

Speaker 2 (14:27):
Saying please, Atlanta is so bad. All these non binary
baristas are so mean to me and.

Speaker 3 (14:37):
Made no one, no one has any rights, help us, No,
I got too many rights anyway, Hylas, how are you doing?
How are you doing. That's good. Good. Well, I've been
following your letterbox like almost like since I started my own.
You actually put me onto a movie that I really

(15:00):
loved that I know you're a big fan of called
Lady Terminator. And yeah, I don't know. I just I
wanted to talk to you about like movies, tran stuff.
I don't know, we keep it kind of loose around here.
Do you want to maybe introduce our audience to what
you do?

Speaker 1 (15:17):
Sure, I do a lot of different things. My day
job is I work at the American Genre Film Archive,
which in and of itself does a lot of things.
We have a physical film archive collection of about three thousand,
thirty five milimeter film prints. We restore films, We release
films on home video on Blu Ray, and we also

(15:38):
distribute films that we own and also that other home
video labels have the rights for. So if you go
to see say Donnie Darko and a movie theater that
comes from us, if you go to see just about
any old horror movie in a theater, you'd probably.

Speaker 3 (15:54):
Even the plaza. Yeah, I was gonna ask have you
been to Atlanta before? I have?

Speaker 1 (15:59):
I mean, growing up in Tampa, I was in Tampa
and to I was I think like twenty six.

Speaker 3 (16:04):
I'm so sorry.

Speaker 1 (16:05):
I'd always I know I'm saying, I always have to
either go to Orlando or drive all the way up
to Atlanta to like to shows or movies or not
even a Savannah. I've never been to Savannah.

Speaker 3 (16:17):
Now really for the first time. I love Savannah. It's
exactly like the way the movie May December like portrays it.
Like everyone is very everyone in Savannah is very weird.
Like it's a very weird place. But it's it's cool,
it's it's it's a little clear too. It is there's

(16:38):
a lot of like gay little like uh Art Savannah
College of Art and Design kids, and also night clubs
and stuff like that too. But yeah, we don't need
to talk about Yeah no, I just asked that because
in Atlanta we have the Plaza Theater, which is where
I'll go to a lot of like featured in Doctor Sleep, Yeah,
featured in the film Doctor Sleep, where there's a lot

(17:00):
of I don't know. They do a lot of very
like cool like showings and stuff and like restorations, and
they play a lot of cool like thirty five millimeter
prints of stuff.

Speaker 2 (17:09):
They played Dracula last year visit. I was fucking what's
not brom Stoker, Francis Ford Copola. Francis Ford showed up too, Yeah,
brom the Stoker showed up.

Speaker 3 (17:22):
Francis Bord Coppola is kind of doing that thing that
like Kanye did where he like it's just like taking
up a residency like in Atlanta, like filming his new movie. Literally, No,
I actually I actually know someone who's like working on
that movie. And uh, they said there was someone that
like got like hit by like a car or something,

(17:43):
and like they filming in Georgia.

Speaker 2 (17:45):
I don't know, they like really like fucted her over,
like really badly.

Speaker 3 (17:50):
I don't know. I don't know enough about it to
like go on like a full tangent about it. But
did he shot?

Speaker 2 (17:55):
You're saying, fran you wait, hold on, what's that you said?
Francis Ford Coppola shot somebody?

Speaker 1 (18:00):
She was driving the car.

Speaker 3 (18:05):
Yeah. Yeah, they're making a movie about Caitlyn Jenner. They're
making speed Racer with Caitlyn Jenner. I'll get you there
in a jiffy, kid. Yeah, herb be fully loaded. Oh
my god, Kaitlyn Jenner just derailed.

Speaker 1 (18:22):
I mean if you want to see the best Kaitlyn
Jenner thing. I would just say, watch Can't Stop the Music,
which is the Village People biopic, which trandition. She is
the co star, she is the male. She is the
male like romantic like lead of the movie. She's the
Village People's lawyer.

Speaker 3 (18:39):
Oh my god, that is so fucking cool. Watch that.
Thank yeah, I do have to watch this. Thank you
for putting us onto this awesome. We talked about we
bring up Caitlyn a lot on the show. I think
I think every trans podcaster just always has Caitlyn on
the brain.

Speaker 1 (18:55):
I just want to say about Can't Step the Music.
I mean, you think of the Village People, they're gay icons.
What is the Village People movie is gonna be like,
it's gonna be them hanging out. It's gonna be fun. Yeah,
it's actually about the straight people who created the Village People.

Speaker 3 (19:14):
So it's kind of like the Bohemian Rhapsody movie.

Speaker 1 (19:17):
It very much is, yeah, because the guy who produced
it was like, I'm gay, but we cannot make a
twenty million dollar gay movie. So we have to make
to sell the Village People just like straight America. So
we have to turn them into like friends to children.
So they try to so that that movie. They're trying
to like present the village people in the most like
hetero way they can. They try to make them straight.

Speaker 2 (19:38):
They all have girlfriends, the leather daddy, yeah yeah, but
they all have such straight jobs firemen like cop.

Speaker 1 (19:49):
So the first half of the movie it's them trying
so hard to be straight. And then when the village
people all get in the same room together and they
are finally the village people, it just becomes the gayest
fucking movie ever made. The YMC A musical number will
shot at a y m c A and it is
this like celebration of masculinity, Like they're trying to roticize
Caitlin Jenner, like doing like exercises in swimming and diving

(20:11):
and playing basketball and short shorts.

Speaker 3 (20:13):
And that's so cool. Got to watch that. Yeah, we're
adding that to the list.

Speaker 2 (20:18):
I mean, this is a big day for beauty translated
because we talk about movies a lot on the podcast
in general. So to have somebody who's a queer film historian,
big day for us, big day for us.

Speaker 3 (20:28):
Here, Yeah for sure. Shit, Uh, is there is there
anything you guys are like working on now to like
restore or anything, like I don't know, like what's what's
kind of what's kind of going on in your world
in the world of queer film restorations and stuff.

Speaker 1 (20:46):
Well, we have something that we just acquired fairly recently
that I can't really talk about, but it is a
very exciting trans movie from the seventies that I'm excited to.

Speaker 3 (20:55):
Okay, get back out one.

Speaker 1 (20:57):
Of course, I wish it was my reckin Ridge.

Speaker 3 (21:03):
But I remember a long time ago we like I
mentioned something about how like I don't know, we've talked
about like like like representation and movies and stuff like that,
and I remember bringing up like how if you're willing
to just like look a little bit, like there's so
much like I don't know, there's just so many movies

(21:24):
like from like throughout the world, Like if you're just
willing to like look for it, like there's so much
good stuff out there, Like there's so like I don't know,
like there's probably people like like there's probably young people
that like get online and talk about like I want
to see like trans representation and movies and stuff, and
like I get that, but it's like, how have you
not like watched like Funeral Parade of Roses, you know, like, like,

(21:46):
how have you not like heard about like in a
year with thirteen moons or like like.

Speaker 1 (21:50):
I mean, I think it's a combination the things. I
think part of it is just that this stuff is
not readily available. When I first saw a Funeral Parade
of Roses and twenty fifteen, twenty sixteen, twenty seventeen, it
was a very hard film to see in the US.
It had never been released on home video here. It
wasn't until it was restored and then like re released
theatrically and then put out on Blu Ray and then

(22:11):
on streaming that it has become this like canonical queer
film for sure, even like something like Paris Is Burning.
That's a film that was like on Netflix for a
while when I was first coming out like as a
gay guy, like a decade ago, and it was easy
to see, and then it got taken off a Netflix
and then DVD was out of print, so it was
impossible to see that unless you had a DVD or

(22:34):
a VHS or whatever. Yeah, So a lot of it
has to do with access, And I mean, I think
one of the things that drives all the work I
do is that I truly think that people want to
see this stuff. It's just they do help for sure
finding it.

Speaker 3 (22:48):
Yeah. Yeah, And I do, like I don't want to
say that, like, like I don't know, I have like
mixed feelings on like the term like representation, because like
I feel like it's not you know, the end all
be all of like liberation, you know, like like it's
not the same thing. But I do think I think

(23:08):
we talked about this recently, how like it is like important,
you know, like it is like I do think, like
especially fucking Americans, like with how like much we like
identify with like art and like the content we consume,
Like it is like helpful in like empathizing with like
experiences that you're like unfamiliar with.

Speaker 1 (23:30):
I think, especially with trans I think with trans people especially,
I think there is a power to seeing that people
like us existed seventy years ago or eighty years ago
or however many years ago. Yeah, and to see and
to see that, I mean, you know, I guess something
that I kind of struggle with sometimes is like this
idea that trans people are brand new or why why

(23:52):
are trans people suddenly in the news when you know
there were mainstream Hollywood movies about trans people from the
seventies eighty yeah.

Speaker 3 (24:00):
Yeah, even before that, Like that's the movie that what's
his name? Uh? G I the g I like God,
the Christine Story.

Speaker 2 (24:11):
Yes, sorry, yes, Glenda, Yes, who was the guy he
made fit planet?

Speaker 4 (24:19):
Edward?

Speaker 3 (24:20):
Yeah? God?

Speaker 2 (24:21):
Yeah, yeah, hero famous crossy you know yeah.

Speaker 3 (24:26):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (24:27):
One of my favorite one of my favorite things I
discovered last year is I was I've spent a lot
of time going through like old cross dressing and like
trans magazines and newsletters and stuff like that, and like
when I started getting into that a few years ago,
like I always had in the back of my mind,
like I wonder if I'll ever find Edwood in one
of these And I finally did under his under his
cross dresser named Shirley, including like a letter that he

(24:49):
wrote to the editor talking about how he loved being
a cross dresser and how he felt at ease and
like all these things.

Speaker 3 (24:55):
That's that's iconic. Yeah, I I think like a lot
of like this is something that really like bothers me
a lot about, like especially a lot of like newer
kind of like trans movies and stuff is like how
I don't know like a lot of the times when
like people like want to make a trans movie, it's

(25:16):
like or queer movies too. We're just kind of like
now getting to the point where we can just have
like normal like queer relationships and shit like in movies.
But I think I think trans movies, like at least
in America, are still like set back a little bit
because like everything is just like this like depressing, like pornographic,

(25:37):
like trauma like movie. Like I like, I don't know,
I don't want to watch boys don't cry, Like, yeah
I would. I would rather watch a movie about like
like this is why someone like Fastbender like means a
lot to me, because all of his movies, like they're
not really about like the queer experience. They're more just
like queer characters that are with like melodramatic scenarios that

(26:02):
like you could apply to pretty much anyone's life.

Speaker 1 (26:06):
And I one speak for yourself. My life is pornographic, depressing.

Speaker 2 (26:11):
And yeah that's true, true, But that's maybe why I
don't want to see that I cry.

Speaker 3 (26:18):
Like looking in the mirror every day, Jane, what are
you talking about? I just I would rather like watch
I don't know, I would rather watch like like Funeral
Parade of Roses is about like so much more than
just like this trans woman who had a horrible life
and then was beaten to death. Like I hate movies
like that. Like that is just so like I don't know,

(26:40):
like I just I never like find myself like wanting
to like seek out something like that. And I feel
like that is like I don't know, I feel like
that's just like a very uncreative way for like filmmakers
to be, Like this is how people will empathize with
these people that are weird. Like it's like if they
are threatened with violence, then the audience will be like,

(27:02):
oh no, don't kill that very feminine looking man.

Speaker 1 (27:07):
Yeah. I mean I think the thing like that that
like really bugs me about a lot of new trans movies.
And I guess this kind of extends somewhat to like
new or queer movies too, is that so many of
them they're not actually about the transperson. They're about the
person reacting to the trans person movie Mutt about the
trans guy. And I think Brooklyn.

Speaker 3 (27:29):
And it's not about him.

Speaker 1 (27:30):
It's not about him or his transition or his you know,
his life. It's about him coming in contact with his
ex and his like father and like all these other people,
and it's about like them struggling to reconcile with him.
It's not about him, it's about them, And I hate that.

Speaker 2 (27:44):
Yeah, well, how do we feel about Monica? That's like
a newer trans film that kind.

Speaker 3 (27:49):
Of I haven't I haven't seen it. That movie got me.
I really do love to it a lot. That kind
of reminds me. I liked this movie, but that was
also kind of like A Fantastic Woman a little bit
where like it's more. But I don't know. I liked
that movie because, like I liked seeing like the way that,

(28:11):
like as a trans person, like a lot of like
normal things in life that everyone has to deal with,
like can be more difficult like as a trans person,
like her lover dies and then she's like has to
deal with like all the kind of like bureaucratic like
processes of like you know, like inheriting his will and
like dealing with his family and stuff like that. And

(28:31):
it's something I think that story is interesting because it's
something that like in a straight relationship and like a normal,
normal quote unquote relationship, it would be a fairly like
routine kind of experience. So I guess there is stuff
like that that I find, I find valuable.

Speaker 1 (28:49):
If you look at movies, I think your your perception
of trans people is that all they do is stare
in the mirror and like softly caress fabricks. Yeah it's
not I have to wake up at six am to
go to the DMV to try to get my license changed,
or I have to do electrolysis, or I have to
do laser or.

Speaker 3 (29:09):
Yeah, yeah, I know. I think stuff like that is
pretty interesting because that is something that like, uh yeah,
that like that that's a side of like the trans
experience that like this people like probably wouldn't be incredibly
aware of. And yeah, I don't know. I think I
think it's like like I said, like it's like it's
just uncreative to like paint. The trans experience has this

(29:33):
like just really like traumatic, Like I mean, it is
like traumatic in many ways, but like I feel like
there's just so much more to it than just like
I'm gonna get murdered for being trans. Like yeah, I mean,
sure that's a thing, but like I feel like there's
more we can talk about it.

Speaker 2 (29:52):
It's overdone. It's like there's enough there's enough film and
content about that at this point. Like I think the
movie like for example, Soldiers Carl is a very important movie.
It is depressing, it is traumatizing, it is horrible, but
I think it's a very important movie because it tells a.

Speaker 3 (30:05):
Real who's the guy in that he looks lee pace, Yeah,
says Calipoernia Adams. Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (30:11):
And it's just to me, like that's an important movie
because it's a real story. But yeah, it's like traumatizing.
But to an extent, when do we start seeing things
that are more just normal and like uplifting.

Speaker 3 (30:32):
You see, like in the early two thousands, you could
have like the L word and like queer as folk
and like just stuff that's like are a normal kind
of like mellow drama but with gay people. Yeah, and
now it's at the point where like you can have
like I mean, I can't there's so many horror movies
where it's like it happens to be a gay couple
and it's like it's not like really related to the plot.

(30:55):
It's just they happen to be gay because being gay
is a normal part of life, and that's kind of
I don't know, that's kind of what I want to
see out of like trans Like that's where like I
would like to inevitably end up where we have trans
characters that just are trans and it has nothing really
to do with the stories, just they're trands because people

(31:17):
in real life are trans, you know what I mean? Like,
what's her name? From alien? Would like to have a word?

Speaker 2 (31:23):
Yeah, well, I guess there was that like, uh like
trans mask and on Evil Dead Rise. I thought that
was pretty interesting. But you'll know I'm talking about an alien, right,
there's that like seeing an alien the like it's very
very brief where they look at one of the women,
like and it says that she's female transsexual, and like.

Speaker 3 (31:45):
Yeah, I do, I do know what you mean. Yeah,
she's just never mentioned normal Normalize it, you know, right right,
normalize the aliens?

Speaker 5 (31:54):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (31:55):
Yeah, but what do we get our guest thoughts on that.
Let's see what let's have to say about it?

Speaker 1 (32:03):
Yeah, I mean I guess of two minds about it,
like one, Yes, I'd love to see it more normalized.
I'd love to see more kinds of storylines and films.
I would love to see more messy trans characters. Yeah, perfect,
pretty little angels I'd love to see a trans woman
in a movie for once. Yeah, But at the same time,

(32:26):
I do think there is some power to seeing, you know,
those kinds of basic stories on screen. You know, I've
seen a lot of movies about transition. There's I Want
What I Want from the early seventies. There's Cambiota Sexo,
which is a Spanish movie from the late seventies. There's
a TV movie called Second Serve, which is about Une Richards.

(32:50):
Second Serve.

Speaker 3 (32:50):
Yeah, Oh I love Second Yes Serve. It's about the
tennis player, tennis player.

Speaker 1 (32:56):
Yeah, tennis player Renee Richards played Vanessa Redgrave. So like
I'm going back to like the idea that like trans
people were this new thing. It's like, no, this was
a TV movie from the late seventies, Like millions of
people saw this. It was a normal thing.

Speaker 2 (33:08):
But then it's almost like it becomes both sensationalized by
like current modern day media, and then it also becomes
commodified in the sense of like, here's this trans character
that we're selling you as like a product for you
to buy. I feel like a lot of Disney and
like Marvel and shit like that, Like those nods often
ring hollow because it's like, Okay, you just want me

(33:30):
to go see this fucking movie, so you put a
trans character in it.

Speaker 3 (33:33):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (33:33):
I think that's the thing for me is I want
there to be substance for the characters. I want them
to have something to do and not just kind of
be there.

Speaker 3 (33:40):
I mean, I know people that went and saw the
New Hunger Games because Hunter Schaeffer wasn't and they'd never
seen The Hunger Games before, and I I get it.
I probably would watch it too. Yeah, but I don't know.
I guess like I'm not really entirely immune to that either.
I feel like we're also kind of like dancing around
the whole like evil trans woman archetype, which is something

(34:04):
that's kind of like horseshoed back to me to being
really fun.

Speaker 4 (34:10):
Well.

Speaker 1 (34:10):
I mean, that is a series that I've been trying
to that I've been kind of working through mentally over
the past couple of months that I want to find
a venue to do sometime this year. Call it trans Panic,
and it's five, six, seven, eight. Trans horror movies from
the seventies, eighties, nineties, Dressed to Kill, Dressed to Kill,
sleep Away Camp, Homicidal from the sixties, which I love.

(34:35):
Look this up Fatal Games, which is about trans people
in sports from the eighties at the slasher movie.

Speaker 3 (34:41):
Oh my god, I think of anything more horrifying. Wow.
And of course Dressed to Kill is like the most
famous one. Of course, that's the well Psycho or Sounds
of the Lambs probably, well, yeah, Psycho too. You talked
about Sounds of the Lambs a long time.

Speaker 1 (34:56):
Well, the funny the funny thing about Sounds of the
Lambs and Dressed to Kill both of them is that
both of them were controversial in their first release. But
the controversy wasn't about the killer trans women in them.
The controversy was these movies are endorsing violence against women
because because the killer trans woman in Dressed to Kill

(35:17):
kills Angie Dickinson. Right, Yeah, that means this is a
movie that is like eroticizing violence against women. Our sanso
Lamb is like, this is a serial killer who is
targeting women, and it is supporting violence against women. It's not,
you know, it's not this is bad representation, this is
you know, going to be hurting people. It's no, this

(35:37):
is violence against women.

Speaker 3 (35:39):
That's interesting to me for two reasons because one, like
I mean, isn't like horror as a genre like killing
women is. It's bread and butter, right, we love our
screen queens. And Two, like I've always I've always thought
about this with the movie Cruising, like it was controversial

(36:03):
at the time because like I mean, correct me if
I'm wrong, but like it was controversial because right wing
people like just didn't want a gay movie, and then
like gay people were like, this is a horrible representation
of our culture. And I don't know, I just feel like,
at least with like Cruising, like that one's really interesting
to me because I don't know, I don't feel like

(36:24):
a movie like that would be I don't know, I
don't think that would be so controversial now, like from
like anyone. Really it might be.

Speaker 2 (36:32):
Though, because there's a lot of the gin I hit
to be gen z I hate to calms, you know
how they're all against people cruising and having sex in public.

Speaker 3 (36:43):
That's why it would be against cruising.

Speaker 1 (36:48):
That's two things. One, I'm still waiting for someone to
make the transversion of cruising where Alpacino has to get
on hormones. There's a killer trans woman who was on
the street to New York targeting cisman. He likes to

(37:09):
get on hormones and go undercover, join in with the dolls.
Winds up in a teaper tea couple with the killer.

Speaker 3 (37:17):
Before the sergeant can even like finish describing the case,
he's like, I'll get my dress.

Speaker 2 (37:22):
I've got him the closet already. Maybe maybe start with
some surveillance or summer. He's like already putting on makeup.

Speaker 4 (37:31):
Like what.

Speaker 2 (37:33):
I'm talking. He's like looking up like voice training videos,
heat from fire, fire from heats.

Speaker 3 (37:41):
It's like.

Speaker 1 (37:42):
To use.

Speaker 3 (37:45):
Like we caught the killer weeks ago.

Speaker 1 (37:47):
It's like, I will give that movie to someone to make.
Please make that movie. I think that movie would be incredible.

Speaker 3 (37:55):
Yeah, that movie sounds fucking awesome. I would love that.

Speaker 1 (37:59):
But yeah, this is something that I was researching pretty heavily.
Last year. I did this series at the Almo in
Austin called Village of the Damned. The album a draft
house and it was called it's Village of the Damned.
And it's to bring all this full circle. It's the
four New York queer movies from nineteen eighty. There's Can't
Stop the Music, which is a village people movie. Yeah,

(38:20):
there's Dressed to Kill, which is a killer trans woman movie.
There's Cruising, which is the killer gay movie. And there's Windows,
which is a movie about this insane lesbian who has
her best friend raped so that she try to get
her best friend of fall in love with her.

Speaker 2 (38:36):
Oh my forever. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (38:43):
So the same year you have a killer gay movie,
a killer lesbian movie, killer trans movie, and the greatest
queer horror film of them all, the Village People straight Wow.
And it's interesting that, like all those movies were controversial
in different ways. Gay people hated Can't Stop the Music
because they thought it was trying to straight.

Speaker 3 (39:00):
Wash the Village People, which it was. It was absolutely.

Speaker 1 (39:05):
Uh. Lesbian hated Windows because it was a movie about
insane lesbian who is, you know, paying someone to rape
her friend so that she can get her in her arms.
Gay people hated Cruising for a couple of different reasons.
Like I think a lot of younger people look back
at the protests for Cruising and they're like, oh, they're
so wrong, their sex negative or whatever it was. It

(39:25):
was a couple of things. There were there were gay
serial killers targeting gay men in New York at the time.

Speaker 3 (39:31):
The Highway right, Like.

Speaker 1 (39:33):
There's the freeway Killers. There's a Doodler in San Francisco.
There's a couple of different gay serial killers.

Speaker 3 (39:38):
I'm sorry, and the Doodler.

Speaker 1 (39:39):
The Doodler. This guy is called the Doodler because in
San Francisco he would be hanging out at gay bars
and he would offer to like draw a portrait, like
let me let me draw you. I think you're handsome looking,
let me draw you. Here's the sketch. Now let's go
over to the beach or whatever.

Speaker 3 (39:53):
And then I mean it's just most serial killers get
a name, like the Ripper, the.

Speaker 2 (39:58):
Freeway Killer, the Doodler, sights than like the dude. Yeah,
that's all of these came out in nineteen eighty.

Speaker 1 (40:11):
They all came out in nineteen eighty, which is insane.

Speaker 3 (40:14):
That's interesting.

Speaker 1 (40:16):
But I think to an extent, the gay community had
a point with the cruising stuff because this was coming
right after Anita Bryant, this was coming right after the
murder of Harvey Milk. Gay people were increasingly becoming the
targets of gay bashing, and to have this movie which
they thought would portray them in a bad light. And

(40:38):
I should say I've seen like an early draft of
the screenplay for Cruising, and it's so much worse. Like, really,
the protests made it a better movie because they had
to go back and rewrite some of this stuff, and
it made it a much better movie.

Speaker 3 (40:50):
I've seen Cruising a lot. They actually played it at
Plaza like a few years ago, and I like dressed
up in like leather year like to go watch it.
And I remember they like did like a thing at
the beginning, and the girl was like, who here has
seen this movie before? I was like the only one
that raised my hand like in like a leather like suit.
I'm like, oh, this was a bit unnecessary. I'm kind

(41:15):
of unnecessarily sticking out here, but everyone else is in
there at leisure.

Speaker 2 (41:19):
Like.

Speaker 3 (41:20):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (41:21):
I showed it a few years ago in Austin and
it was the only time I've ever seen someone in
a leather jock strap at a movie theater.

Speaker 2 (41:28):
Oh yow, yes, we would get along, hold on the
fucking seat.

Speaker 3 (41:33):
Just yeah. More thinking about Cruising real quick, like every
time I've watched that movie, Like, I mean, I didn't
know that about like the like rewrites and stuff, because
like it always strikes me that that's like one of
the most anti cop movies like I've ever seen like.

Speaker 1 (41:52):
It people didn't care at the time.

Speaker 3 (41:54):
Yeah, yeah, like it is a seriously like uh, I
don't know, it's such an indictment of the police force
and like the way that they will like use like
minorities and just like step on them and I don't know,
I just I I find that interesting because like I
didn't know that about like the rewrites and stuff, but

(42:14):
like it always like struck out to me, like how
are people like protesting this? This is so just like
I don't know, this is like my thoughts on the
police force, like horrible, Like yeah, I don't know.

Speaker 1 (42:24):
If you want to see the bad version of Cruising,
it's this movie I showed a few weeks ago in
New York called Partners from nineteen eighty two, and it's
the creators of Lakaje All Fall, which was remade in
the US. It's the bird Cage. It's the creators of
that saying what if? What if Cruising was a comedy?
It's about this. It's about this like macho straight cop

(42:46):
who has to be with night Rhin O'Neil as the
like macho straight cop who's partnered with John Hurt, who
is like this mousey, asexual gay cop and as a couple,
and it's.

Speaker 3 (42:59):
It's it's it's a rush hour, but with a straight
guy and a gay guy. I love that.

Speaker 2 (43:05):
I think I might have seen I feel like I've
seen clips from this or something.

Speaker 1 (43:09):
I would recommend anyone listening to this watched the trailer
because I think the trailer is like a perfect, like
horrible piece of art because it's like three minutes long.
It's three minutes long. It opens with a card saying
this trailer has been a proof for all audiences, and
then within thirty seconds, Ryan O'Neill is calling someone a faggot.

Speaker 3 (43:25):
Yeah. Ryan O'Neill is very hot too.

Speaker 1 (43:32):
He just looks uncomfortable and miserable the entire movie, And
that's why we showed it a few weeks ago. It
was like my edge, lordy, like Ryan O'Neill memorial screening
to mourn his death.

Speaker 3 (43:44):
He died recently. I didn't even know that. Oh I
love Paperman. That's like, yeah, amazing movie.

Speaker 1 (43:52):
He was a great actor, a beautiful man, a terrible person. Okay,
so that's why we celebrated with partners. Yeah, more or
more and him with partners.

Speaker 3 (44:01):
M huh, something you'd probably rather erase from his CEO.

Speaker 2 (44:14):
Well, something I was going to ask you too, was
I mean, well, just I guess you were kind of
well we've moved past it already, but I was just
going to talk about how, like the whole gay liberation
movement pretty much depended on, or at the time, depended
on like gay people appearing as like normal and like
cis hetero normative as possible. So yeah, I can totally

(44:34):
see why people were like up in arms about cruising
and like you said, I need a Bryant. That's why
cruising is cool. Yeah, Like I don't know, it's like
it's like edgy. Like now I'm confused though, how did
it get an edit?

Speaker 3 (44:49):
Before?

Speaker 2 (44:49):
So people were aware of this film being made and
they demanded like so this is like pre social media.
That's where I'm thinking, like movies like Sonic and Shit
Today can get remade. I'm interested to know more about
that story, Like what do you know about that?

Speaker 1 (45:06):
Yeah, there is a man named Arthur Bell who was
a journalist at the Village Voice, and he was the
one who was basically leading the protests for this and
someone leaked him an early draft of the script, and
he read it and like went to the Village Voice,
into the Advocate and all these other publications and like
wrote these pieces saying like, I have read this early
draft of the script, this is going to be the

(45:27):
most homophobic movie ever made.

Speaker 3 (45:29):
Wow.

Speaker 1 (45:30):
And he had a point.

Speaker 3 (45:32):
Yeah, I mean the most homophobic movie ever made. I
feel like that's going to be a hard feat to accomplish. Yeah,
that's a big shoot a film.

Speaker 1 (45:40):
I will I will say, Carmen, going off with what
you're saying. Something I love about gay liberation stuff from
the seventies is that they were so desperate to show
that being gay was like a natural, normal thing that
if you watch a lot of gay documentaries from the seventies,
they will interview people like out in nature to be like, no,
this is this is natural. This person is like sitting
by a lake, they're in a park like this, this
is normal and natural.

Speaker 2 (46:01):
And that trickled down to plant in Today. We have
plant gays and fucking hiking gays and it's okay, you
can just be in the house gay, okay. Ari I
co op Yeah, the ARII co op gaze. You know, Wow,
that is funny. And that's like a little bit of
like subliminal messaging in a production there for you.

Speaker 1 (46:23):
Yeah, there's this really great documentary from nineteen seventy seven
called Word is Out, and the whole the whole thing
with that movie is that they interviewed twenty six gay
men and lesbians and it's just bysically them talking for
two and a half hours telling you their stories. And
in the woods there's there is one person who's like
interviewed by a lake. There's someone else who's like in
a park. There's all these people and like some of

(46:43):
them are indoors and some of them are outdoors, and
they're trying to show that like this is a natural,
normal thing.

Speaker 3 (46:48):
That's so cool.

Speaker 2 (46:49):
That's you know how they should say, you know how
they should interview us. I should put us in like
a test tube and like a lab and like I
like have like twenty six trans women and has been
interviewed and like the most like clinical looking we could
be like we're not natural, we're.

Speaker 3 (47:05):
Free, yeah, or or they make it like look like
it's just like a normal like house or something, and
then at the end it like pulls out and you
see like we're in like this like an invader type
of thing. It pulls behind you can see like and
the transsexuals were safely behind this one way mirror being
interviewed through the power of technology. None of the straight

(47:28):
people had to be around them. I mean the.

Speaker 1 (47:31):
Version of that is like when you see like trans
girls on Twitter whose rooms are just like fucking filthy.
I'm just imagined. Yeah. The positive representation is to have
like a nice clean room.

Speaker 3 (47:42):
Absolutely. Yeah. I mean my room's not looking too good.

Speaker 2 (47:47):
Right.

Speaker 3 (47:48):
You didn't turn on the sign either, I didn't. I fuck,
You're right for the listeners, I normally do have a
little neon bar sign behind me, and that's how she
signifies that she is on air. Yeah, that's that's how
my that's how you know my brain isn't working to
that she's not locked in the bar sign is not
turned on. Liz, have you seen the movie What Gender

(48:12):
Am I? From like nineteen eighty or something like that.
This sounds good.

Speaker 1 (48:15):
It's like the documentary Sea.

Speaker 3 (48:18):
Yeah, Oh yes, What Sex Am I? Yeah? I remember
I watched that on Criterion Channel a long time ago,
and I thought it was pretty good. But like there's
one story in that that has like always like stuck
out to me where this one they're like talking to
this one guy, and he's like telling a story about
how like uh yeah, like my my whole life, I

(48:42):
was like cross dressing and I thought I was like
trans and blah blah blah, and then I went to
like he describes like all these like hurdles he went
through to get like signed up for like sexual reassignment surgery,
and he says like and then all of a sudden,
when they about to put me under, I was like, no,
this isn't right. I'm a man, you can't do this

(49:06):
to me.

Speaker 2 (49:06):
And then it was too late, and I felt the
gas and I woke up and I didn't have a
penis anymore, and now I just have to live like this.

Speaker 3 (49:13):
I was like, what the fuck, Like, I mean, it's
like it's hard for me to like have sympathy because
you went through a lot to get to this point,
Like at any point you could have stopped, like, at
any point you could have thought about this a little
bit more until you're going on anesthesia.

Speaker 1 (49:34):
Yeah, he was the first turf detrans person.

Speaker 3 (49:38):
Yeah. Yeah, he was in the New York Times. Yeah,
like the first one of those like like British women.
That's like, like it says like I was coerced my
whole life getting my breasts removed, Like what are you
talking about? Like, I don't know, like that that's just
I Also, I always like you can also kind of

(50:01):
understand the visceral horror, like waking up and being like, no, oh, yeah,
that movie's cool. Well I have news for your sex
change is actually scheduled for this evening.

Speaker 1 (50:21):
Whether you like it or.

Speaker 3 (50:23):
Not, okay, depend depending on the day of the week.
I'll probably be like.

Speaker 1 (50:27):
All right, I mean that's all. Motivar is the skin
I live in.

Speaker 3 (50:31):
Yeah, yeah, I know. Do you like that movie?

Speaker 1 (50:35):
The first time I saw it, I was like very
really into transition, and I went to see the local
theater and someone was like laughing through the whole thing,
and it made me feel really uncomfortable. Yeah, And then
like a few months later I found out it was
a transcirl who was laughing, so like I was.

Speaker 3 (50:48):
Like, okay, I I thought that movie was pretty funny
and kind of stupid. Honestly, Like I had a lot
of like straight friends recommend it to me just because
they know I like movies. Well, yeah, they're like this
you should watch. This is great. It's really really good.
And then I don't know, Like I remember they were saying,

(51:10):
like it's like a really fucked up movie. And then
when I realized it's basically like it's basically like a
mad scientist movie, but like his mad scientist scheme is
to uh force feminize someone. I'm like, that's really funny,
Like I can't really take that too seriously.

Speaker 1 (51:29):
Can I recommend another movie? Yeah, a film from the
late sixties by the director of a Christmas Story, and
it's called Bob Clark, right, Bob Clark. It's called she Man,
A Story of Fixation, and it's a black and white
forced them basically like erotic softcore film.

Speaker 3 (51:49):
Whoa, this looks hot? Yeah, it's from this Oh this
looks cool, dude, Bob Clark was a freak. What was
that guy's do? Yeah, he loved Christmas. He made like
five movies about Christmas.

Speaker 1 (52:02):
He made genius movies.

Speaker 3 (52:04):
He made baby geniuses. Yeah, Like Porky's is one of
like the worst movies I've ever seen. Like that that
is easily like a contender for like like when people
ask me, like, what's the worst movie I've ever seen?
That's always one that pops into my brain.

Speaker 2 (52:18):
I wanted to ask you about. Well, this is just
a movie I personally love, but have you ever seen
Southern Comfort?

Speaker 1 (52:25):
Wait?

Speaker 3 (52:26):
What is it called? Yeah, Southern Comfort?

Speaker 1 (52:29):
Yeah, not the water able movie.

Speaker 3 (52:31):
The documentary, a documentary. It's a really great documentary. I
love it.

Speaker 2 (52:36):
And that's one that I would love to see back
in circulation and the in the theater.

Speaker 3 (52:41):
But that's neither here nor there. What is that? It's
a great about bottom surgery getting comfort and you're no,
it's a traumatizing, sad It's a very documentary.

Speaker 1 (52:53):
It's about this trans man from the South who was
dying Georgia.

Speaker 3 (52:57):
Actually, oh gosh, that's awful.

Speaker 1 (52:59):
And no one would give him a hysterectomy to save
his life. Basically, no one would treat him.

Speaker 2 (53:04):
Yeah, he's like he called over twenty something doctors in
the state. Every one of them turned down because they
didn't want to work. They don't either want a trans
man in their office or they didn't want to be
associated at all. It's like, cool, Well that is terrifying
and depressing. But I think that that kind of falls
into like I don't know what, like we're saying earlier

(53:25):
about how like some of these stories like are important
even if they're I don't know, like like it's on YouTube.
I don't like watching a lot of like trends like
trauma porn. But I guess I can like see like
it's actually really cute too, because they actually portray a
lot of tea for tea couples from the nineties, not
portray what am I talking about. They it's a documentary.

(53:47):
They show a lot of tea for tea couples from
the nineties and just like that happening here in Atlanta
at the time was really cool. There's a scene where
they go driving to the Southern Comfort conference in Buckhead
and they drive down onto a past like the fucking
Linux mall. That's kind of funny.

Speaker 3 (54:06):
That's cool.

Speaker 1 (54:07):
Yeah, So it's kind of It's an incredible film. It's
very sad, of course, but I think things are things
like that are okay because they just make you angry
and they want you to they want they make you
want things to change, and I think that's powerful. Another
thing I would recommend is a documentary called Transsexual Menace
by one of my favorite filmmakers.

Speaker 3 (54:28):
About the group.

Speaker 1 (54:30):
Right so it's technically about the group, but it's basically
using the group as like a jumping off point to
explore you know, transnis in America in the nineties basically,
and a couple of the people from Southern Comfort are
in Transsexual Menace. And there's there's a section at the
beginning of the film which is basically about the Southern
Comfort Conference.

Speaker 3 (54:52):
Yeah, yeah, which was I mean, I've had this on
my watch was for like a long in the movie.

Speaker 2 (54:58):
That's hilarious. What nineties fucking trans movie? Was RuPaul not
yeah for real?

Speaker 3 (55:07):
Forcing her way into have you seen Dressed in Blue? Yeah?
Dressed in Blue is awesome? Went to it. Yeah, we
went to a showing of it. There was a wasp
in the theater.

Speaker 2 (55:20):
Oh my god, it was I was so scared the
whole time. I was terrible. It was scarier than what
was on the screen.

Speaker 3 (55:29):
My god.

Speaker 2 (55:30):
Okay, I did have to look away during the breast
and plant scene because I was not Oh yeah.

Speaker 3 (55:35):
They got in there. They got in there for real.

Speaker 2 (55:37):
I was not ready for a full on surgery, like
just out just like a surgery shot.

Speaker 3 (55:43):
There's also I've mentioned this this movie on the show
a lot because a lot of it's in Atlanta, but
Cocomo City is kind of a I don't know, it's
kind of an interesting kind of like sister movie to
to Dressed in Blue, because it's like they're both kind
of like trans hangout document memories, you know, like they're
very like and I think I like that a lot

(56:05):
more like I feel like it's less dramatic, like there's
less to kind of like hang on too, but it's
like really nice, just like I don't know, it's just
nice seeing girls talking like I don't know, it's it's
nice hearing about like normal kind of like everyday problems
and stuff, and I don't know, it's very I guess,

(56:25):
I mean, at least in terms of like Cocomo City,
it's very like I don't know, it becomes very dark
because like the movie itself is fairly light and you know,
it's fairly easy to watch, like kind of like a
hangout Eat documentary. But I mean in real life, one
of the actress was like murdered like in Atlanta, and

(56:45):
it's like flash god damn. Like just like I appreciate
that they they they didn't want to do so much
of the like trauma porn stuff, but like, I mean,
god damn it, it's incredibly real.

Speaker 2 (56:59):
Like I think that's the best way to get the
trans representation I mean is through documentaries, right obviously, And
then I don't think people really watch that many documentaries.

Speaker 1 (57:11):
Though, I mean, I love trans documentaries. They're some of
my favorite things I did. So I have a series
that I've been doing in Austin that I'm still doing
even after I've moved. I've been doing it for two
full years now, and it's like a queer film. It's

(57:32):
like a general queer film series, but kind of focus
on like deeper cuts. And something they let me do
is to pair features with shorts. And I've, you know,
over the past couple of years, found all these little
short films where it's basically, you know, here's we've sat
a trans person down and they're just going to talk
about their life for ten or fifteen minutes. And sometimes
they show like glimpses of their life or like reenactments

(57:54):
of like things that they've done. But like those shorts
are always the ones that like get the best reactions.
I've had people come out to these screenings and hate
the movie but love the short and I think there's
such a power in just having someone sit down and
just talk and yeah, you hear their experience or you
see a little bit of their life. And I mean,

(58:15):
I guess that's the problem I have with a lot
of like narrative films is like, you know, we we
see trans people on the screen, but we don't really
what we see isn't really like their real life. We
see like a SIS person's interpretation of what like a
trans life is like or what the trans experience is like.
I would love more trans documentaries that just you know,

(58:38):
sit someone down.

Speaker 3 (58:40):
Yeah. Yeah, those are definitely like my favorite's Like that's yeah,
that's why I like like Cokona City and Dress in
Blue so much. So you're gonna love Southern Comfort. Yeah,
I'll check that out for sure. So Liz, I have
well sorry, what was your question? Oh I was I
was gonna try to piv it to our little game,

(59:01):
but if you have a question, yeah, this.

Speaker 2 (59:03):
Will be my last to my last little question, then
we can pivot to the game. I just wanted to
ask you, Liz, what made you want to get into
into this career field and like why did why did
you want to do what you do.

Speaker 1 (59:17):
For me, it's just a being kind of obsessed with
movies and fascinated by movies and be like wanting to
help get them out there or help show them to people,
or I mean, the thing I've kind of built my
name off of is this project I do called Ask Anybody,

(59:38):
and Ask Anybody? Was anybody Buddy, b b U, D
D Y right, And it was basically just me researching
and exploring the history of gaye porn. And the thing
that got me into those.

Speaker 3 (59:55):
Movies is that every night, every night.

Speaker 1 (59:57):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know, I know, but I mean
this goes into everything we've been talking about. Gay porn
movies in the seventies and the eighties were the only
way that gay filmmakers could really make gay movies and
tell gay stories and actually explore like gay ideas in film.

(01:00:17):
You know, in gay porn we see the first coming
out stories, we see the first gay romances. We see
gay horror movies and gay westerns and gay comedies and
gay gay thrillers, gay everything. Yeah, as long as a
film had like a certain amount of sex scenes or
a certain amount of cumshots, you could do what you
could do whatever else you wanted. The sex doesn't even

(01:00:38):
have to be hot as long as it had sex
in it. A filmmaker could make a film, have the
money to make the film, get it released, and then
basically almost be guaranteed to make a profit, and then
be able to make more movies. And then the theaters
that the films would play at were like gay porn
theaters that were dedicated theaters where you could go any
day of the year and see a gay movie and
cruise and probably know fucker get fucked. Yeah, And I

(01:01:01):
think there's something really powerful about that. And like these
movies they were kind of a big deal in their time.
They were reviewed in gay newspapers and magazines, they had stars,
they had like well known directors, and then over the
past couple of decades, with you know, aids and respectability
politics and all this stuff, those films kind of just disappeared.
And ask anybody, it was me trying to like re

(01:01:24):
examine these films and see, like, you know, is me saying, like,
I think there's something here. I think people would be
into this stuff if they knew about it, and basically
trying to explore that.

Speaker 3 (01:01:36):
Yeah, yeah, so I think that's what it's like. Uh,
Like Burt Reynolds and boogeyn Its. But yeah, yeah, like
I want to make actual arts. I think that's very cool.
I've noticed you and some other people. I've seen a
lot of like people reviewing, like a lot of these
movies have been added to the letterbox recently, and I've
seen a lot of people like, I don't know. I'm

(01:01:58):
glad you kind of explained that because it took me.
I didn't really understand how a lot of people were, like,
I don't know, even having like interests in a lot
of these like erotic like seventies sixties like movies. But
that that makes total sense. Yeah, So I think.

Speaker 1 (01:02:16):
I think a lot of people when they think of
these things, they think it's just gonna be like an
internet porn video where it's just fucking yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:02:22):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:02:22):
These film these films had stories, they had characters, and
the gay movies they were so little budget that they
often shot in like the actual spaces, so these movies
are the only places you can see certain like famous
gay bars or certain gay porn theaters or there were
a couple of movies that were shot at New York's
Cruising Peers, which are now long since demolished. And here

(01:02:44):
in this movie you can see a depiction of what
it was like to cruise the peers. Or here you
could see what it was like to be at a
gay bar in the mid seventies, or here's what a
gay porn theater was like. Yeah, and like these filmmakers
they you know, the ones that really cared and were
really trying to do good work. I think they were
using sex as a way of exploring these ideas of

(01:03:05):
gay liberation. You know, we have we're still arguing about
the merits of promiscuity versus monogamy or you know, polly
relationships or you know, I only have one part sex
scenes in films or even sex scenes in films. Yeah, yeah,
like none. None of this stuff is new, and I
think people don't realize that. And I think with the
advent of prep, you know, however long ago that was,

(01:03:27):
I think there has been this kind of revitalization and
cruising culture and sex culture, and people are I think
now maybe more in a mindset to look at back
at this stuff and kind of see the value there.
And again, this stuff, this stuff was seen as being
part of gay liberation. You know, sex gay liberation was
sex and to actually make a gay movie that had
a gay story and showed gay sex, which was a

(01:03:48):
crime at the time. I think there's something.

Speaker 3 (01:03:50):
Powerful about that, yeah, for sure.

Speaker 1 (01:03:53):
And for me, like as I was kind of like
like as when my egg cracked and I sort of transitioning,
seeing transporn from that time was really powerful to me
because you know, I think a lot of people nowadays
would look at that stuff and be like, oh, this
is made for cis people like who fucking cares about this?
It's gross, it's exploitative. But for me, when I see
that stuff, I'm like, here's like trans women who are

(01:04:14):
beautiful and who are like desired, And a lot of
those movies were made by people from like the community,
and people who were you know, had their hand both
in the sex stuff but also like drag pageants in
the drag world and magazines and publishing, so you see,
you know, these like it's clearly made by community or

(01:04:36):
people who are like related to community, and I think
those movies are so cool.

Speaker 3 (01:04:40):
Thank you for that. I don't know, I really like, uh,
I don't know. We're very like discourse oriented a little
little subgroup of people now and I feel like just
so much of this is like I don't know, just
so much of this is so like unnecessary when like
you said, like a lot of these like arguments are
just very like sick look stuff that like has been

(01:05:02):
litigated and litigated long before like tumblr was ever invented.
And yeah, but I feel like if I feel like,
by like preserving this history and like like engaging with
like history and culture in that way, we can like
maybe hopefully in the future, break some of these like
cyclical argument cycles. Yeah, and that's what art is all about.

Speaker 1 (01:05:29):
Yeah, I mean there's there were gay filmmakers in the
eighties complaining about how, in like mainstream movies, the camera
would always have to pander the window when people had sex. Yeah,
very very calmy by your name. It's like, why why
can't we show the people actually having sex or show
show their relationship in terms of the actual sex instead
of having to you know, be very tasteful and not

(01:05:51):
have it all be part of one thing.

Speaker 3 (01:05:52):
Oh I love tastelessness. Yeah, huge fah speaking of tastelessness.
While if, if, if you still have time for it,
I put together a little game for us to play.
Sure would you like knowing knowing knowing you uh from

(01:06:17):
your letterbox presence. I went I went through UH. I
went through the task of combining a list in a
little game that I call porn comment or letterbox review.
And I've got a list here and I'm just gonna
read off some of these statements made by real people.

Speaker 1 (01:06:37):
Can I just say something real quick? This reminds me
of one of my favorite old school games, which is
gay Bar or Steakhouse.

Speaker 3 (01:06:44):
Oh, that's good. That's good. That's good.

Speaker 1 (01:06:47):
And there was there was there was a website called
gay Bar or Steakhouse. I don't know if it still exists,
but it was like a game of like Longhorn the
Longhorn or like the Ramrod Is this steakhouse?

Speaker 4 (01:06:59):
No?

Speaker 3 (01:07:00):
I love games like the first one we played in
the first episode of the season. We had Domino, Presley
and like her girl group with us, and I found
a list of all the like saw traps, and I
found a list of just like weird like either sex
positions or like sexual objects. And it was called like
sex or saw and it was it was pretty good.

(01:07:23):
I think everyone had a pretty good time.

Speaker 1 (01:07:27):
We've been we've been talking about movies to the past hour.
I am a little disappointed. We did not get to
talk about how trans the Saw franchise is.

Speaker 3 (01:07:34):
Oh wow. We talked about Saw a lot on and there.

Speaker 1 (01:07:38):
There was this period last year when I started dating
someone and she showed me all of the Saw movies
and this was like, right when you were watching all
the Saw movies?

Speaker 3 (01:07:47):
Yeah, yeah, earlier friend.

Speaker 1 (01:07:49):
My friend Vera Drew was watching all the Saw movies
and like, I knew three other people who are who
are all watching Saw movies and like losing their minds over.

Speaker 3 (01:07:58):
Well, it was because Saw X was covering, so I
wanted to like brush up on the lore.

Speaker 1 (01:08:03):
Because I see, I've.

Speaker 3 (01:08:05):
Seen like up until three when I was like really young,
and then I don't know, My like taste is such
like a bell curve. It was like a lot of
stuff when I thought was really cool when I was
young that I as I grew more taste, I was like,
this is stupid, and now like now I've kind of
regressed into like a pre like hormonal state where I'm like,

(01:08:27):
this is awesome.

Speaker 1 (01:08:28):
I saw one through three or fine Soft four through six,
Now that's that's no.

Speaker 3 (01:08:34):
Yeah, I saw a lot of people hating on Soft four,
but it has one of the funniest scenes in any
movie ever when Donnie Wahlberg's headed the eyes blocked is
one of the funniest, like the truly like fall out
of my seat laughing moments I've ever had watching a movie.

Speaker 1 (01:08:55):
The insane transition where the woman is thrown into the
mirror and the camera goes through the mirror.

Speaker 2 (01:08:59):
And that is so cool. That's I know that is
that is that Saw four as well?

Speaker 5 (01:09:06):
Four?

Speaker 3 (01:09:07):
Yeah, oh yeah, dude, that ship is so cool. I
completely agree. It's very like, uh, I mean, I know
that one's not directed by James Wand, but that's like
something James Wand would do, like now, yeah, like in
like a like an upgrade type movie or something like that.

Speaker 1 (01:09:20):
One of my projects that have had kind of on
the back burners, I want to recut the entire Soft
franchise in chronological order and just see how much of
a clusterfu that would be.

Speaker 3 (01:09:28):
Oh my god, how much more confusing it would be.
I didn't really when I watched Saw X and I
realized that, like I like leaving the theater, my boyfriend's like,
you know, that's like supposed to be like before the
events of Saw two. I'm like what.

Speaker 6 (01:09:46):
So before Saw two he went to Mexico and did
all of the what like, that's kind of easy. Letst
we forget Saw five. Saw five only exists to show
how the new character from saft wour was there the
entire or time and not my least favorite.

Speaker 3 (01:10:04):
Saw five is my least favorite. That one just feels honestly,
all the like Hoffman centric ones are are not as
good for me. He's just such. He's so boring like franchise.
I like him and Saw Saw six obviously is the
real the real saw heads know that Saw six is
kind of the best one. I mean, seeing like healthcare

(01:10:26):
executives get like tortured is just.

Speaker 2 (01:10:29):
That's the incredible because I've been battling and going getting
my fucking f fs covered by insurance.

Speaker 1 (01:10:34):
I just hope that the next one, when it comes out,
will have a scene where Jigsaw force someone or Yea
causes someone to like do their first shot of estrogen.

Speaker 3 (01:10:44):
You you've been gooning to get to transport your whole life.
You can name all these transport saws off the top
of your head, but can you cut your dick off
to save your life? The camera's like cutting like all
around him. He like picks up the scaff.

Speaker 2 (01:11:01):
You have to perform a perfect vaginoplasty on yourself.

Speaker 3 (01:11:05):
In front of you are two silicon breast implants. You
was standing on top of weight. You must have them
into your skin and sew them back up.

Speaker 1 (01:11:15):
The key is in your testicle. You must give yourself a.

Speaker 3 (01:11:17):
Working Yeah, there's there's a lot there ship. Yeah. Wow,
I shouldn't have brought up Saw. This happens every time
every time. While you guys were talking.

Speaker 2 (01:11:33):
About Saw, I was checking my Instagram really quick and
fucking Dylan mulvaney started following me, and I was having
a mini heart attack. WHOA, she was gonna start looking
at me discoursing in my stories, but she didn't.

Speaker 3 (01:11:43):
So, yeah, you better behave. I better behave.

Speaker 2 (01:11:48):
I was discoursing about the fucking lesbian bar drama that
a bunch of teenagers who have never been to bars
seem to have a lot of opinions about.

Speaker 3 (01:11:58):
I have no idea what you're talking about, but we can.
I feel like we can put a pen in this. Yeah,
we can put a pen in it. Sorry. Yeah, well, okay,
go to the game. Okay, you know we.

Speaker 1 (01:12:07):
Made it a full hour. We did not start talking
about day fabs or whatever.

Speaker 3 (01:12:11):
No, we yeah, no, we don't. We don't do that.
There's certain things that on this show that I know
if I bring up is just going to like really
like I mean, there's just there's certain trans discord stuff
like we're just talking about discourse a few minutes ago,
like this is it's so like it's just so toxic
because like yet, I have my own opinions on things,

(01:12:33):
but one, like I don't want to like piss off
anyone that like is ostensibly on my side. And two
it's just fucking stupid. Who cares. I don't want to
talk about like non binary seventeen year olds on TikTok
like this. I'm not I wasn't talking. I was talking
about the lesbian bar drama. I'm sorry, I'm sorry. Porn
comments or letter box.

Speaker 2 (01:12:56):
All right, this one reads sometimes you just have to
bottom your way to the hop.

Speaker 1 (01:13:01):
I'm gonna say that's a I think it's a letterbox.

Speaker 3 (01:13:04):
What do you think, Carmen, I'm gonna go with that
sounds like a letterbox. It is it is. I started
off as an easy one. That is a review for Saltburn.
Fuck that movie. I knew that I was going to
be that all right. I love this girl. She's actually
an amazing actor. Fully believe her characters massive props, porn
comment or letterbox.

Speaker 1 (01:13:24):
See porn comment on that one.

Speaker 3 (01:13:27):
I'm also gonna go with porn comment. I started jewel
off easy and I've only I'm only adding one of these.
But I thought this was an interesting theme when I
was you need to tell us which porn video that's
about listen. Oh, I don't know. I did. I did
make a note when it was straight porn, but all
the good ones were on straight porn. Because people don't

(01:13:47):
really comment on like gay and trans porn. I feel
like they're a little too embarrassed, a shame of shame.
Although I did. There is a very running theme. I
had to look at quite a lot of porn to
make this list.

Speaker 1 (01:14:00):
There running thank you for your Yeah, you know, I
do what.

Speaker 3 (01:14:04):
I can for it's all for the show. There is
a running theme in a lot of transporn where people
are like, fuck, I'm gay. Now It's like, you know,
damn well, you didn't just like stumble in here, like
you know what you're doing, Like you didn't just trip
and fall and now you're like, yeah, yeah, you didn't,

(01:14:29):
just like yeah, anyway, hey guys, quick question. I'm stuck
in Stars and time. I'm currently in Act three. I
tried beating the king so many times and even helping
with friends, but for some reason, the act doesn't change.
Is there something I'm doing wrong? Any help is appreciated.
This is porn? Huh, This is absolutely porn. And this

(01:14:50):
is an interesting theme that I saw where there's a
lot of people that like to solicit like Reddit style
video game advice on porn comments. So I only included
this one just to note that there's a lot of that.
There's a lot of people just casually discussing like how

(01:15:12):
do you tame a horse? And minecraft?

Speaker 1 (01:15:14):
Are there a lot of porn comments that are like
those YouTube comments were like I'm a thirteen year old
and I know this is real rock and roll.

Speaker 5 (01:15:22):
Yeah, I didn't find I did find some that were like, yeah,
who's still jack into this in twenty three or like
who's who's busting to this during the pandemic?

Speaker 3 (01:15:38):
Like who in lockdown right now? So, yeah, there's there's
a lot of solidarity in the in the porn community,
and there's a lot of more like social aspect to
it that I like. I think that's cool. It's very reddit, though.
I don't like how red it it is. But what

(01:15:58):
are you doing? All right? Uh? They are not getting
the cleaning deposit back on that cabin. Oh that's I'll
let you answer first.

Speaker 1 (01:16:08):
I'm gonna go ahead and say that's a letterbox review.
It's pity.

Speaker 3 (01:16:12):
I'm gonna say the same thing. It is a It
is a letterbox review for the film Antichrist. I love
that movie. Another Dafoe, Yeah that is I love that
movie too. All right, rat Now I'm hungry for food
and cock. It's gotta be porn and it's gotta be

(01:16:33):
some type of food.

Speaker 1 (01:16:35):
I'm gonna say.

Speaker 3 (01:16:36):
The letterbox Carmen was right. That was pornography. Was it
somebody like getting fucked with food or something? I'm gonna
I didn't like write down. I don't remember that. I
didn't really write that down. I wrote down the letterbox movie.
It was with the movie. I just wrote porn from
when it was porn. Uh, this makes me hungry for

(01:17:00):
let's see letterbox. That's gotta be a letterbox review for
the menu. This was porn. Okay, Damn, this was porn.
All right, you know what love making belongs in the kitchen.

Speaker 1 (01:17:11):
I'm gonna say letterbox.

Speaker 3 (01:17:13):
I'm gonna say, Okay, you're wrong. Correct. That was a
that was for the movie Tempopo. Oh I didn't. I
never even popped a boner. That is a letterbox review.

Speaker 1 (01:17:29):
I bet there's a letterbox.

Speaker 3 (01:17:32):
It's a letterbox for the movie the Gaspard Away film
Love that Sucks? More like? More like enter my ass?
Is that in a letterbox review? For Interstellar? Uh? It's
Enter the Void another gas Away film. Excellent cinematography, amazing

(01:17:58):
camera work and sound design. Somebody give the actress a
Grammy or something. Well done with the production.

Speaker 2 (01:18:05):
Porn porn definitely, Yeah, when they don't say the name,
I tried to like work around that, but that was
a comment I did write down because this person had
a cool name.

Speaker 3 (01:18:14):
This was Alpha Pussy Assassin. Whoa we need comments on pornhub?

Speaker 4 (01:18:19):
Whoa?

Speaker 3 (01:18:20):
That was another thing. I had to solicit most of
these from porn Hub, which wasn't a fan of doing.
But you know, again, the things I do for the show,
all right, this one I really like a lot. It
takes a long time to get into, but that's what
makes it. It's much like the Phil Collins song Something
in the Air Tonight, Letterbox, I'm gonna say porn. That

(01:18:46):
was pornography. That was that was pornography. They were thinking
about Phil Collins, what they were dooning. Pussy is just
not that interesting?

Speaker 2 (01:18:56):
Is that a letterbox review for Benedetta Liz?

Speaker 3 (01:19:00):
What do you say?

Speaker 1 (01:19:02):
I'm gonna go ahead say letterbox.

Speaker 3 (01:19:04):
Correct. It's for the movie Anatomy of Hell, which there's
another movie that I hate. It's way way too French,
way too French. Don't like that movie. Life sucks. And
then you come it's so.

Speaker 1 (01:19:17):
Pity that, like, my mind immediately goes to letterbox. But
I'm gonna say porn.

Speaker 3 (01:19:20):
Your mind is on the right track, and it is.
You're right, the pissiness it is. It is a one
sentence letterbox review. It's for the film the Todd Solon's
film Happiness Wow, which is which is an awesome movie,
hilarious film, way more come dialogue than initially expected.

Speaker 1 (01:19:41):
Oh my god, letterbox.

Speaker 3 (01:19:45):
That is also a review for the film Happiness Wow.
Uh that movie. Todd Solon's is h such a freak
he should be put in jail. But he makes some
cool movies.

Speaker 2 (01:19:59):
All right, Uh, she's a Catholic, she'd be shunned in
the eyes of God. He's going wait, fuck, I wrote
this one weird, fucked.

Speaker 3 (01:20:10):
I'm just gonna skip this one. It was porn, Okay,
I wrote that one weird. Uh, I'd kill myself if
I wasn't a part of that fire orgy. Letterbox Yeah,
which mode is that? That is a letterbox for the
film Ken Part another movie made by someone who should

(01:20:30):
be put in jail. That it is not very good.
This one was fucked up. I like, don't like this one,
but uh, I hope she gets locked in a dungeon
and fed dick and balls twenty four seven, three sixty five.

Speaker 1 (01:20:49):
God the phrase dick and balls. I'm gonna say porn.

Speaker 3 (01:20:52):
Yeah, this is fucked up. This is a one and
a half star review for the movie Megans. Really fucking stupid.

Speaker 2 (01:21:05):
This person should be put in jail, Like, for real,
that's horrible.

Speaker 3 (01:21:11):
I did not see one single person smile.

Speaker 1 (01:21:15):
Porn letterbox.

Speaker 3 (01:21:17):
This is a letterbox review for the Matrix Reloaded. And finally,
I feel like this guy wakes up every morning and
says to himself in the mirror, this is my swamp.
That's gotta be porn.

Speaker 1 (01:21:31):
Porn.

Speaker 3 (01:21:31):
It has to be porn, and in fact it is. Liz.
Thank you for joining us, Thank you for playing, Thank
you for playing a game. Do you have anything you
want to promote? Any any links you want to send,
will obviously keep in the show discribtion.

Speaker 1 (01:21:46):
Sure early March. I am going to be well On
March six, I'm gonna be at Nighthawk Cinema in the
Prospect Park, Nighthawk in Brooklyn showing One of my favorite
movie is Pumping Iron to the Women, which is incredible,
incredible documentary a about like big strong women and b

(01:22:08):
it's a film that I think has a lot of
a lot of queer themes. It's about you know, who
defines what femininity is? What is too masculine for a woman?
You know what? What? What is? Uh? What is too masculine?

Speaker 2 (01:22:23):
In?

Speaker 1 (01:22:24):
What am I thinking? It's a film with big strong women,
and it's a film I.

Speaker 3 (01:22:32):
Think you can enjoy.

Speaker 1 (01:22:34):
You can enjoy as a film about big strong women,
but you can also enjoy it as a film that
has a lot of trans allegory. And it's incredible.

Speaker 3 (01:22:41):
So yeah, that's great. Yeah, Yeah, go on out go
support our girl. Also, yeah, we can the links to
your website and everything down there. Follow Liz. She's great,
very knowledgeable all our movie heads out there. I hope
you enjoyed this one, and Liz, thank you for joining us.
It means a lot.

Speaker 1 (01:23:01):
Thank you, No, thank you. It was a lot of fun.

Speaker 2 (01:23:13):
So we just shot a music video this week for
Janie's new song on her new album, East Atlanta Sober
that comes out pinning.

Speaker 3 (01:23:22):
This fall a summer summer.

Speaker 2 (01:23:24):
Okay, it's going to why did.

Speaker 3 (01:23:29):
I say fall?

Speaker 2 (01:23:30):
I was literally thinking spring and I said fall? Why
did I Anyway.

Speaker 3 (01:23:34):
Maybe spring mid spring, early summer. But yeah, new album
coming out. I have a new single. For all of
my albums, I want to have like one really really heavy, aggressive,
like grind corey song on it, and this is the
one for that. So it's it's very very aggressive, very short, blistering,

(01:23:55):
angry political and yeah, so I got a bunch of
girlies together there to help us tie up an effigy
of a man and kill him. And yeah, it's great.
I'm very excited about it. I'm very proud of it
and proud of our director. Shout out to Natasha Riiley
she's nominated for some sort of award right now because

(01:24:17):
she's very talented.

Speaker 2 (01:24:18):
But yeah, shout out to her. She's really great. And yeah,
especially she did our photos.

Speaker 3 (01:24:25):
Yes she did. Yeah, if you've enjoyed our little like
new like promotional like photos and stuff, she did those two.
So she's very talented. But yeah, it should be out
probably next week. So maybe by next week's episode, we'll
have it linked in the description for you to check out.

Speaker 2 (01:24:43):
So yeah, keep an eye on the keep an eye
on the Jaming Danger YouTube channel. I'll link that in
the description below so that people can subscribe it and whatnot.

Speaker 3 (01:24:52):
Yeah, yeah, do we have any desperate colors that need help?
We do have one desperate callers today.

Speaker 4 (01:25:02):
Let's queue it up, he translated Beauty, recent listener of
the show love It. I don't really have a problem
or like a specific question, just wanted to share something
and get ill thoughts. Uh. So, I was assigned mail

(01:25:22):
at birth. I'm currently identifying as non binary, and you know,
experimenting with like different ways of like gender expression and
YadA YadA. I really learned here to talk about more
here to talk about you know, since beginning to identify

(01:25:46):
as non binary, I started to the past couple of
people I dated or hooked up with. That's right, Almost
all big trans women get which I which you know
I love?

Speaker 2 (01:26:00):
Right?

Speaker 4 (01:26:03):
I I think the thing I wanted to get your
thoughts on was a number of them have sort of
made comments about you know, unprompted.

Speaker 3 (01:26:15):
Like I knew it. I knew it was like I
was about to have.

Speaker 4 (01:26:19):
You considered transitioning you know, your gender? Right? Have you considered,
you know, taking hormones which you know? I don't I
take a compliment? Yeah, I mean I don't know magic
shouldn't I do? You know? There are times I enjoy

(01:26:41):
I enjoy like, you know, dressing up and like more
fun clothing, and it's kind of nice when like someone
like calls me like ma'am or something in the street.

Speaker 1 (01:26:54):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:26:55):
I'm just curious if like this is like a thing
that you heard about.

Speaker 3 (01:26:59):
Or oh, we've heard about it, honey.

Speaker 4 (01:27:01):
I like this question people who have had similar attitude.

Speaker 3 (01:27:04):
I have some thoughts that I want to get.

Speaker 4 (01:27:05):
Out before you do great work with the show.

Speaker 2 (01:27:08):
Okay, so first thing, I know that you're new at this,
Please stop saying assigned to mail at birth. We do
not need to know that you're a mab afab whatever
we can tell. Oh my god, it's just annoying, you
know what I mean. The whole point of being non
binary is to not like establish your sex in every conversation,

(01:27:29):
So stop doing that please.

Speaker 4 (01:27:31):
And uh.

Speaker 2 (01:27:33):
The other thing I would say is we're not changing
our gender, We're changing our sex, and that's an important
thing to keep in mind. Hormones change your sex.

Speaker 3 (01:27:42):
We are.

Speaker 2 (01:27:45):
Already i think, confident in our gender prior to that.
But it really just comes down to, Yeah, if you
feel like you like being referred to as a woman,
ma'am moving through life as a woman, and you see
yourself moving through life as a woman, then yeah, I
think that's something that you should pursue. I also don't

(01:28:06):
think hormones are that serious of a deal where you
need to be, like, you know, super afraid of trying
them for like a short period of time. I agree
with that, SOO, yeah, you could try them for a
period of time and see how that makes you feel.
If that makes you feel any affirmed, yeah, like in
one way or the other.

Speaker 3 (01:28:27):
I'd say if you give it like six months or so,
you're not really going to get anything that you can't undo,
and you'll definitely be able to get like at least
like a taste of like what that experience is like
and be able to see if you like it or not.

Speaker 2 (01:28:40):
But I will also say that, you know, hormones are
just one part of it, you know. I mean, I
would also experiment with, like, you know, presenting if that
is something that you want to do, because also keep
in mind that being a woman really does not come
down to the clothes you like to wear. It comes
down to how you feel about your sex at the

(01:29:03):
end of the day, you know, like do I you know,
and so you can wear whatever clothes you want to wear.
But I would I would practice with presenting more feminine
and just seeing how that makes you feel.

Speaker 3 (01:29:15):
I support that as well. I have some kind of
maybe maybe differing opinions from my lovely co host here though,
please and that well, for one, I want to address
the uh like the trans people making comments, because this
is the thing that especially lots of younger trans women

(01:29:38):
like to do where they do this very like r
slash egg irl bullshit where they're like, oh, I'm cracking
the egg. And I also kind of want to talk
about the twitch streamer thing I don't know. Yeah, yeah,
we can get into that a little bit later because
this kind of ties into that in a way. But
I think, you know, contrary to what our haters might

(01:30:02):
say about us, we or at least me, for sure,
I like the idea of people being on binary. I
think it's great. I think if you are non binary
and you are comfortable with that as your label, I
think that's very cool and I think that's fine, and
I don't think anyone should try to like change that

(01:30:27):
about you if that's something you're very comfortable with. So
that's why I.

Speaker 2 (01:30:32):
Would say, if you don't, like, if it makes you
uncomfortable that trans women that you're making up with or yeah,
are saying that too, I think you could you could
respond with some I think you're well within your right
to respond with some caddie bullshit like oh well, maybe
I'm happy with who I am or something like, because
that's not their business, Like that's not someone else's business

(01:30:56):
to like be your fucking indochronologists, you know.

Speaker 3 (01:30:59):
Or you're like your fucking therapist. Yeah, yeah, like I
think if I think again, though, that's like a thing
that you have to decide. Like, I think you need
to decide, like, if you're happy with who you are
being non binary, then you should be happy with that.
That's fine.

Speaker 2 (01:31:15):
But I always encouraged, like, if that's being said, yes,
I always encourage people just trying it out if they're curious.

Speaker 3 (01:31:21):
But I was gonna say that too. There would be
nothing wrong with like identifying as trans for a while
just to try, Like, I don't I don't see anything
wrong with that. When I first came out, I said
I was like gender queer for like a year, and
to be honest, I kind of knew I was trans
like the whole time, but it was kind of my

(01:31:42):
way of like dipping my toes in the water before
I like actually like dived into the deep end.

Speaker 2 (01:31:49):
Yeah, because you have so many like societal pressures to
be a man, you know, if that's what you're born
as or whatever. You have so many pressures to be person.
So really the first step in becoming a trans woman
for us is just like learning to accept that we're

(01:32:10):
not those people for anyone, and we have to be yeah,
who we are for ourselves. For you, Yeah, yeah, I
would also maybe disagree with you a little bit that,
like this is something I've kind of came around on
like I've always used to kind of be like very
hardlined about like no, like if you're like taking hormones,
you're like clearly like like trans. But I'm starting to

(01:32:31):
think maybe like you can identify as like non binary
or something else.

Speaker 3 (01:32:35):
Yeah, I wouldn't call you sis quite, but like I
think if you're if I think, if you want to
experiment with like hormones and stuff and like consider yourself
like non binary or like like a thin boy or
something like, I mean, as long as you're not like
being annoying about it, like that's that's fine. I don't
see anything wrong with that. So I would also add

(01:32:56):
like if you want to like kind of keep that
like identity the label, but also like maybe experiment with
more like physical like you know, hormones, presentation, like voice training, whatever. Yeah,
try that, like try on different hats.

Speaker 4 (01:33:11):
You know.

Speaker 3 (01:33:12):
It's it's it's because I definitely relate to like the
confusion of kind of like when you realize, like when
you get that like splinter in your mind and you realize, like, Okay,
I'm definitely not like sis. I'm definitely not like being
comfortable being referred to as male as a man or whatever. Yeah,
and just like having this kind of like culture shock,

(01:33:35):
I guess of not being sure like what that means. Yeah,
Like I definitely like relate to that kind of like confusion,
and I think that's something that you should like guide
yourself through. And but I like talking talking with like
friends and stuff would help. But I think like talking
with like randos that you like hook up with or
like whatever, like they a lot a get A lot

(01:33:57):
of fucking trans girls are like very annoying this and
they like want to crack.

Speaker 2 (01:34:01):
Your I'll be honest too, can I can I say,
like I'm sorry, well, just to like play Devil's advocate
here for the trans women, I will say, you know, uh,
just to say, like fucking like fucking trans women does
not make you trans, you know, and being trans. You know,
there's other and I can't we'd have to play it back.

(01:34:23):
But I can't remember if this person is even necessarily
questioning their gender or if other people are just questioning
their gender, you know what I mean. I think they
I think they are a little bit, yeah, because it
sounds to me more like it's like an external like
these trans women that you're fucking are being like, hey,

(01:34:44):
you know what's going on, And yeah, there are some
trans women that take a lot of like glory and
being like I'm.

Speaker 3 (01:34:51):
Gonna crack the eg.

Speaker 2 (01:34:53):
But honestly, it's like we just need to accept that
like nobody determines anyone's gender or secon expect themselves.

Speaker 3 (01:35:00):
Yeah. Absolutely, Yeah, this is something we've talked about a
lot in regards to like, yes the Kirk. Yeah, that's
a classic example because it's something that like really goes
against the kind of modus operanda being trend. Yeah, you're
deciding for someone else, like like that's not like that's

(01:35:22):
you can't do that, and that's something that I will
always reject. So yeah, I think we can like cover
our bases here and answer and like help them with
like the the kind of like either one, because yeah,
it does seem like it could be like either they
are questioning this and are not sure about like the

(01:35:42):
external influences, or they're very very sure and are kind
of annoyed by the external influences. And I think we
can answer like both of those questions in an honest
way and maybe that that will help our help our
dear listener, because I just like try to shut out,
you know, I think so too. I would also agree, like,

(01:36:04):
and this is something that like an annoying, like egg
cracky trans woman probably would say. But it's true, Sis,
people don't buy and large don't really experiment with like
hormones or like even think about like doing stuff like that.
So if that's something that you like are really like
in your brain wanting to do, I mean, I don't

(01:36:27):
know what to tell you, girl, Like that's that sounds
like it might be something you would be worth trying out.

Speaker 2 (01:36:33):
It just depends on you know, you gotta just break
through all those barriers of like I don't know just
what other people around you expect to you.

Speaker 3 (01:36:41):
I mean I feel like one of the big things
is like, oh, like I'm gonna like sterilize myself. But
it's like it sounds like you're gay already, so I
mean it's kind of like God already did that for you.
I mean you can also like you could come in
a ziplock bag and keep it in your freezer, like
it's you can always do. I've heard that works. Oh,

(01:37:02):
I've got an ice tray full come from when I
was three at your house. Oh, it's clearly labeled it's
clearly labeled not ice. Something else, sir, it's not ice.
It's a secret more sinister second thing.

Speaker 2 (01:37:20):
Oh my god, I'm terrified. I have a friend who
keeps a fucking dead cat in their freezer, and I
have a friend who keeps the fucking ice tray of
com in their freezer.

Speaker 3 (01:37:30):
This is I don't Actually I do sometimes kind of
wish that I, like save my sperm, but it's a
very very expensive to do in Georgia. Yeah, don't you
have to like pay rent on that? Yeah? No, it's
really really it's like a monthly fee or some shit. Yeah,
I'm not sure. I know that. Like just like doing
the deposit is like incredibly expensive. It's like, I'm the

(01:37:51):
one who's coming.

Speaker 1 (01:37:53):
I didn't want to wait.

Speaker 3 (01:37:54):
I didn't want to wait. I was like, I'm just
gonna I'm just gonna start hormones. And I think having
kids like stupid. I'm just gonna say it. Also, I'm adopted.
I could adopt.

Speaker 1 (01:38:03):
Exactly my point.

Speaker 3 (01:38:05):
And also I've come to realize I'm more into like
long term relationships with men and uh just making out
with girls because they're pretty. But uh, yeah, can we
really quick talk about do you know about the twitch
streamer guy Finn girl be, I don't know. I mean

(01:38:25):
she's not. I think I think they're in any pronouns person. So,
but I think that's an interesting like cultural tie into
this conversation. Yeah, because people for so long have been saying, oh,
you're an egg, when are you gonna start a hormone?
Finn's on hormones. It turns out they were six months
they've been on hormones, but of course they were. If

(01:38:47):
you looked at that person, well, I'm with you. Can
I be honest with you?

Speaker 1 (01:38:52):
Can I be mean?

Speaker 2 (01:38:52):
For a second, I watched the coming out video and
I was I'm very happy for.

Speaker 3 (01:38:57):
I was shocked that they were like Australian or whatever.
That was hard. I think, oh god, which is like
even worse. I thought they were America.

Speaker 2 (01:39:05):
It's like even harder to get HRT and like, if
you're in America, try it out. But anyway, England, it's
a fucking arduous process to get.

Speaker 3 (01:39:13):
HRT over there. I'm sure.

Speaker 2 (01:39:14):
But it's all camera angles. Can I just say with
Finn it's all that camera angle.

Speaker 3 (01:39:19):
It is the so it is all this.

Speaker 2 (01:39:21):
Camera angle and I'm going to hold my my laptop
up like this.

Speaker 3 (01:39:26):
That is all it is.

Speaker 2 (01:39:27):
Because when Finn shoots to camera, there was like a
couple of shots where he she they were shooting a
camera like face on like this, bricky, bricky, bricky.

Speaker 3 (01:39:39):
Wow. I don't really care about you being means of
herd because I'll be honest, there is someone I'm fine
with Finn. There was someone I was aware of on
Twitter for a long time because they there was a
lot of this is they they like, yes, like rage bait,
I want to get to that. But there was lot

(01:40:00):
of trans people that were very like annoying about him, Yeah,
because like they were annoyed that this is like I mean, honestly,
they were just jealous. They were annoyed that like a
quote unquote boy is like pretty and is like using
that to like get views. And personally, I think that's
something that also goes against the kind of mo o

(01:40:21):
of self identifying being trans, like choosing your own you know,
labels for yourself whatever. But when they started making videos
that were like I just tricked a bunch of blokes
into thinking that I'm a woman, I'm like, yeah, that's
fucked up, that's weird.

Speaker 2 (01:40:39):
That's when I started to I don't care be a fimboy,
be a Twitter, be a whatever. But the rage bait
stuff at a time when got trans women are being murdered,
it's just goofy, you know what I mean.

Speaker 3 (01:40:52):
It's insane. It's goofy. And it shows a really like
detached level of like privilege of like like not realizing
that like I'm like making like content off of something
that like gets trans people fucking killed. Like that's insane
to me, I know.

Speaker 2 (01:41:11):
Yeah, And that's when I started to like was like
I don't know about that. But then I want to say,
you know, I don't want to be armchair psychologists here
because that's not our job. But some of that, I
feel like comes down to like internalized trans misogyny. You
learn for so long that trans women are so disgusting
they are the most vile, like worst person, type of

(01:41:33):
person that can't consist on the face of earth. So
what do you identify as well, I'll be a finboy
because that's not quite as nasty, and I'm not saying
that that's the case.

Speaker 3 (01:41:43):
But no, I think I know what you're getting a yeah,
like being like, oh, well, I want to like cross
dress or I want to like present myself like this
because I like doing it. Yeah, but in a way
to like kind of like misdirect from like me saying
that I like this and I'm comfortable with it, I say,
I'm doing it for a joke. Yes, yes, it's Halloween.

(01:42:06):
I I had to dress up as it's like I don't.

Speaker 2 (01:42:10):
When I went to Alta, we used to have this
creepy old guy who'd be like, hey, I lost a
bet with my wife and she she wants me to
go out this weekend dressed up like a woman. Do
you do like make up for drag there at Alta?

Speaker 3 (01:42:23):
And I would be like, yeah, you can use makeup
for anything. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:42:27):
I'm like in my head like cancer, Like I'm like
thinking to myself, like, dude, first of all, you there
was never a bet. You're just a fucking weirdo and
you want some type of like yeah wait, yeah that's awesome.

Speaker 3 (01:42:40):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:42:41):
So a lot of it, I feel like comes down
to like just like internalized trans misogyny and just like
a hatred for a trans woman that like I can't
be I can't be that.

Speaker 3 (01:42:51):
So yeah you know, yeah true, So I guess to
the club, Yeah, I guess. I guess we can tie
that back to uh, to the listener's question a little bit,
assuming there's still like an uncertainty there, which I'm not
entirely sure if there is or not. That's something you
have to like also kind of like deal with for yourself.
Like that was also the kind of part of the
reason that I probably like that was like a big

(01:43:14):
part of the reason why I didn't come out, And
I would like I would just like cross dress like
on Halloween or as a joke, because I was you're scared,
like you're because I'm going to be fucking buffalo Bill,
you know what I mean? Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 2 (01:43:27):
Go back and listen to our very first episode together
when we talk.

Speaker 3 (01:43:31):
All about that. We've actually talked about a lot of
those Yeah. So I don't know, I like that question,
and I like this listener. And if you uh, I
don't know, if you come to some sort of conclusion
or something, I'd like to hear back from you, even
if we just like play it off, even if we
just play it off air like I would like to,
I don't know, I care about you. Yeah, yeah, let

(01:43:53):
us know how things are going. Yeah, And if you
are a listener. With any sort of problem, sorry, anything
that you would like for us to address, you can
hit our line at six seven eight five six one
two seven eight five for whatever problems you have. We
will laugh at you and make fun of you and

(01:44:13):
say you're week and a failure, just because we love you.
We love you. We'll listen to them, we'll consider them,
we'll give him a very thoughtful response.

Speaker 2 (01:44:20):
I think we did great today. I think we gave
I gave some constructive criticism. I gave some genuine love
and care and concern.

Speaker 3 (01:44:26):
Yeah, I was very motherly of Yille. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:44:30):
All right, y'all, thanks for listening to this week's episode
of Beauty Translated. Catch us next week we're going to
be speaking with oh h oh erm Yeah, we're having
a real political episode next week.

Speaker 3 (01:44:42):
Oh yeah, another another smart one. Yeah no, I'm very
excited for next week's episode.

Speaker 4 (01:44:47):
Two.

Speaker 3 (01:44:48):
We have josh Aka et Injermentum from Twitter substack. You've
probably maybe heard him do appearances on Chabou Trapals and
the Hassanabi hasan Piker Broadcast. Really smart political analyst and
also this one's kind of for the fellas because he's
a fella fella a cis fella with a penis, and

(01:45:13):
he does amazing writing on the world of politics and
has a great article on trans legislation, and honestly, it's
it sounds like it's going to be something that's very,
very depressing, but it might make you feel at least
a tiny bit better about the world of politics and
trans stuff.

Speaker 2 (01:45:34):
Actually it made me feel better. I went in feeling
very doom and gloom, but then at njer Josh he
put a lot of things in perspective for me that
made me feel a lot better and really made me
feel just kind of better about not covering all the
stupid legislation bullshit anymore, because it really is just intended
mostly to be rage rage bait.

Speaker 3 (01:45:55):
We cover a lot of stuff in this episode that
we don't normally talk about. So if you've been kind
of waiting to hear us weigh in on Florida and
Ohio and all these presidential nominee yea, all these hell
places and hell topics, listen next week's episode. Those is
gonna be a fun one. Yeah, it's a good one.

Speaker 1 (01:46:15):
Thanks y'all.

Speaker 2 (01:46:16):
Thank you, say beautiful bye bye bye. Thank you for
listening to Beauty Translated Beauty Translated is hosted by me
Carmen Laurent and Janie Danger, produced by Kurt Garon and
Jess Cranchich, so special thanks to Ali Perry and Ali Cantor.
Our theme music is done by Aaron Kauffman and Beauty

(01:46:39):
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