Becoming The People's Joker: with Vera Drew

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
Man.

Speaker 2 (00:08):
I were at the nail salon yesterday getting a.

Speaker 3 (00:11):
Friend of the show, by the way, friend of the show,
friend of the pod.

Speaker 2 (00:14):
We're getting our nails done, and in walks a guy
with like a timbaland hat, like a green uh uh,
you know, like jacket on, just looking real butch right,
and he walks in and he says, hey, I need
a full set, and the whole room I'm not joking.

Speaker 1 (00:38):
Was he gay? We think so. We think he was a.

Speaker 3 (00:41):
Queen who was off duty, because you know, it's what also,
you know, it's also a possibility what guitar players.

Speaker 1 (00:51):
Guitar players.

Speaker 3 (00:53):
I have a friend who plays. He does a lot
of finger picking, and he gets like just very like
basic like yeah, yeah, acrylics done on like one hand.

Speaker 1 (01:05):
That is diva. That is kind yeah it is. It
is very male diva.

Speaker 4 (01:09):
I love that.

Speaker 1 (01:10):
Yeah god yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:12):
So yeah, the whole room like and I mean obviously
there weren't that many people there, but.

Speaker 1 (01:17):
The whole room started screaming, fagging. Yeah. The two trains
in the room like, oh faggot. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:26):
So yeah, it was very fun and very interesting. Good
day at the nail salon yesterday. I love you know
what I used to do my nails at home, and
I have been for the past many years.

Speaker 1 (01:36):
I have been I do.

Speaker 2 (01:37):
My nails at home kind of girl because I know
how to do them, and I just don't like spending
the money on getting them done. But after yesterday, I
found a good nail salon that I really like. I
think I'm gonna make this my new, my new little,
my new little treat myself.

Speaker 3 (01:55):
You know, I would go, I've told I've said this
like a billion times, but I can't get my nails
done because I play guitar and I can't like hold down,
oh the fret the strings.

Speaker 1 (02:05):
Yeah, I guess I could get.

Speaker 3 (02:07):
Them done on one hands, but I want to get
them done on both hands.

Speaker 1 (02:10):
Yeah, yeah, exactly. So I just I don't know.

Speaker 3 (02:14):
I just resigned myself to not ever doing my nails,
even though I like having them done. You can have
a polish at least just a little bit. Yeah, yeah,
I like paint them myself. I'm very bad at I
have really shaky hands.

Speaker 2 (02:26):
You know, and I have a really shaky foot. I've
discovered these past two times that I've gotten interesting one
to the nail salon.

Speaker 1 (02:35):
Oh. I love getting my feets he's done.

Speaker 2 (02:37):
Oh, I do too, but for some reason, so last
time I got a French tip, this time I couldn't
get a French tip because last time my foot would
not stop shaking.

Speaker 1 (02:45):
Bitch. It was crazy.

Speaker 3 (02:46):
The nail person was like can you but yeah, can
you stop kicking me in the face. I apparently have
like restless leg syndrome or something. Do you think that
there's like any like foot fat guys that like try
to get like jobs as like uh like nail texs.
Like I think there's just like a white guy from

(03:08):
Ohio who walks into like a Vietnamese nail salon and is.

Speaker 1 (03:11):
Like, here's my application.

Speaker 3 (03:17):
I would say, I've worked in it and marketing for years,
but I just I just need to pick up some
extra cash.

Speaker 2 (03:24):
I want to say yes, but the reality is I
feel like from having worked because I used to work
in spas and massage places and I used to massage
feet on a daily basis, I will say that any
of that just becomes so desensitizing, like you're doing it
so much, you're seeing it so much, it's like it's

(03:45):
like it's just another part of a person's body.

Speaker 1 (03:48):
But that's because you don't have a foot set right.

Speaker 3 (03:51):
If you had a foot fetish then every day would
be like opening like Christmas morning as a kid, you know,
it'd be like opening up the Nintendo sixty four.

Speaker 1 (04:00):
True.

Speaker 3 (04:00):
You know, I bet I worked with some people that
were really freaky for some feet probably you know what
else I thought about a little unrelated, but I've been
thinking about how, uh you think that the person that
made up that like, uh, like you think a long
time ago, someone got like stung by a sea urchin

(04:23):
and there was a guy that was on the beach
who was like, I didn't have to pee on it.
Everyone's like, everyone's like what, and he's like, I'm a doctor,
trust me, I have to pee on it. And now
I think that that's not true. And I feel like

(04:45):
that was just something made up by like a super freak.

Speaker 1 (04:48):
You know, absolutely it was. You know how.

Speaker 3 (04:51):
Many things in this world do you think we're just
like made up by like super freaks, Yeah, freaks with fetishists.

Speaker 1 (04:58):
I was stung by a wasp a couple of ago
and the guy one of the guy beat on it. Well, no,
he spit on it.

Speaker 5 (05:05):
What?

Speaker 3 (05:05):
And I was like what, you know, I was very
like confused by that. You have to swallow my spit
because we have to spit in each other's mouths. Look,
you have to look up and say I'm a good
girl and swallow my spit. And that's the only thing
that will stop the poison from reaching your brain.

Speaker 2 (05:27):
Yeah, and it worked, you know. Yeah, I'm better for it.
I'm better for it.

Speaker 1 (05:32):
I mean, you live.

Speaker 3 (05:33):
So maybe there was maybe there is some some science
to it.

Speaker 1 (05:38):
Yeah. Well, Jane, I know this week you're dying from allergies.

Speaker 3 (05:42):
But I'm getting owned every single day. Maybe I need
to get pissed on. Maybe the trees in your in
your sinuses right now, the trees are busting all over me.
Maybe I need more bust to counteractive, you know, like,
maybe maybe I.

Speaker 1 (06:00):
Should go to some freak doctor who's.

Speaker 3 (06:02):
Gonna Oh I showed you that video right, which one,
the one where the doctor was jerking of someone getting
combed on? Oh yeah, yeah that's what you knew. Yah,
he off, he has joking her ship. He was like
his thumb like really really hard over her. Yeah you
could hear it, like, yeah, yeah, it was cool. Well,

(06:24):
the thing is, Carmen, that actually wouldn't work for me
because I have a deviated septum, and my ship is
really fucked up. I went to it's funny you've you've
been having trouble getting your like gender confirmation surgeries. I'm
just having trouble like getting like my nasal passages to
where I can breathe a gun And yeah, I went

(06:47):
to an e N t uh like like two weeks ago. Well,
the thing is, they made me do like this really
fucking long like triage. And I told him, like from
the beginning, I was like I saw an e NT
like a year ago. They prescribed me some stuff. It's
not gonna work. Like there's there's no going back from this.
It's like it's it's open. It's like a goat. It's

(07:08):
like goatsy nose, like it's it's gaped. It is she's gaping, shorty.
Shorty is a gape. And yeah, and like the very
last thing they did, after asking me like just a
fucking like insane like rubric of questions, was like, all right,
and now I'm gonna take a look at your nose
and told back a little bit. And I heard the

(07:30):
doctor say, like, damn, you weren't kidding. I was like,
why would I have been kidding. Do you get like
some freaks who come in here. It was like, yeah,
people who just want a free fucking nose job. I
need you to look inside my nose, I learned and
use you to get all the way inside.

Speaker 2 (07:47):
My doctor asked me when I had my consultation. He
was like, and do you have any problems breathing? And
I said, sure, I don't know. Whatever you gotta do
to get that shit covered by insurance?

Speaker 1 (07:58):
He laugh.

Speaker 3 (08:00):
You know what, it's crazy because I asked the doctor too.
I was like, they're like, we're not going to change
the shape of your nose at all. I was like,
oh really, and he was like yeah, no, it's all
like inside. I was like, wait, but can you and
he was like no, that's like something else.

Speaker 1 (08:14):
I was like, oh, yeah, I guess it is. Well,
I mean, yeah, that makes sense.

Speaker 3 (08:19):
But like I have heard of other people saying that
when they got their deviated septem fixed, they got kind
of a little too for one deal.

Speaker 1 (08:27):
I was kind of hoping they.

Speaker 2 (08:28):
Probably went to a plastic surgeon because what they're going
to do is well, I don't want to get all
technical with you.

Speaker 3 (08:34):
But they'll do like an ope they're going to open
up your nose. They're going to get the hood, you
know what I mean? Oh, I know, but it is
from what I know that the surgery is all kind
of like done, like they don't they're not like split
in my shit open Okay, yeah, yeah, it's closed.

Speaker 1 (08:50):
They do it. They do it all. I don't know
they send.

Speaker 3 (08:54):
I'm getting an open I'm getting an open R.

Speaker 1 (08:56):
I assume it's.

Speaker 3 (08:57):
Kind of a magic school bus situation, yeah, where they
send a tiny school bus of doctors into my nose
to to fix it and then they pull them out.

Speaker 1 (09:06):
Yeah. I think that's.

Speaker 2 (09:07):
Yeah, that's how all modern medicine is going these days.
That's why it's so hard to get it covered by
insurance because you have to have like the whole team
of doctors get on the bus at the same time.
The yeah, and then they have to get in line
for like the shrinking ray and it's shrinking right.

Speaker 1 (09:23):
It's there's like always delays.

Speaker 3 (09:25):
You know, there's only a handful of magic school bus
doctors in America's.

Speaker 1 (09:30):
Very nationalized practice.

Speaker 3 (09:31):
Yeah, that's why there's so many good surgeons and Thailand,
because the average height in Thailand is only like like
two point three centimeters, so they can they can shrink.
It's very easy to shrink a doctor microscopic country.

Speaker 1 (09:50):
Thailand.

Speaker 3 (09:51):
Yeah, there's there's a Taiwanese person listening. Like the five
foot one countries, a Taiwanese person is from top Oh. Yeah,
I meant that. I said that. I said that. I said, Thailand,
d's time, They're time. I said that. That's what I said.
That's what I said. Okay, I know, I know, I haven't.

(10:11):
I don't have the doctors inside fixing me. You see
what I'm wearing right now? Do you think I know?

Speaker 2 (10:19):
I said, it's a classic Janey fit today. The first
thing I said when I saw he was like, this
is a if you look up Jenny Danger in the dictionary,
this is this is the.

Speaker 1 (10:29):
Photo I'm wearing my Democrat trucker outfits. Yes, Trucker Janey.

Speaker 3 (10:34):
Can we get a little sample of truck or Janey?

Speaker 1 (10:37):
What's that? I don't know.

Speaker 6 (10:42):
I don't know.

Speaker 3 (10:43):
We'll come back to that. I would play her Trucker Janey.
It would play her Lisa Kudro.

Speaker 1 (10:50):
Fuck.

Speaker 3 (10:51):
Yes, I gotta ask you that question more often. Instantly,
I'm going to ask you that question more often. Okay,
that's what. Honestly, like, that's the person that people say
I look like the most I see that. Well, they
say Phoebe specifically friends. Yeah, yes, yeah, they don't say
Romy or Michelle.

Speaker 1 (11:10):
I don't know. I'm never I don't know what it
is either. I think I don't know.

Speaker 3 (11:15):
I forgot the fun kind of name is romy It's not,
you know, it's just I. I was driving on eighty
five the other day and there's some big like post
I don't know. There's this big advertisement for I believe
it's like a BT show called Diara in Detroit, and
I was thinking, like Diara.

Speaker 1 (11:35):
That's like Daria.

Speaker 3 (11:37):
Well, it's kind of if I wasn't wearing my glasses,
it kind of looks like diarrhea.

Speaker 1 (11:42):
Oh no, that's unfortunate.

Speaker 3 (11:46):
Like if you just threw an h somewhere in there
like that, would that would be really confusing?

Speaker 1 (11:50):
Yeah, diarrhea in Detroit.

Speaker 2 (11:53):
I mean, I've been thinking a lot lately about how
famous people have some of the weirdest fucking names you've
ever heard of, like Stockard Channing, Stockard a fucking name.

Speaker 1 (12:06):
Where is that Stockard? I don't know, but that's a
I like that name I.

Speaker 3 (12:10):
Actually Kuba Cuba Gooding Juba Gooding Jr.

Speaker 1 (12:15):
Did you say this? I like that name too.

Speaker 3 (12:17):
Yeah, I'm just like these aren't names, do you know what?

Speaker 4 (12:20):
What?

Speaker 1 (12:21):
You know?

Speaker 3 (12:21):
What pisses me off more than that is the fucking
uh the how celebrity Like I never in my life
have I met someone with like three names. Like I've
never met like a Joseph Gordon Levitt. That's a cerial lie,
you know what I'm saying? Only serial killers have three names,
or like it's weird that like celebrities get to have
like like Phillips, Seymour Hoffman, where they get to have

(12:43):
a name, which is my favorite share Madonna.

Speaker 1 (12:47):
Yeah, I do. I do like that, Sinda.

Speaker 3 (12:49):
I think it's great when you just have you claim
the entire name, you know.

Speaker 1 (12:53):
I think Timothy Shallome is all is all one word too.

Speaker 3 (12:56):
I heard it was actually pronounced tim Timothy.

Speaker 1 (13:00):
That limit. Wonka Wonka gets to have one name too. Yeah,
but you know it's Willy. I like to.

Speaker 3 (13:07):
Imagine justin Timberlake and the Social Network coming in and
being like drop the Willy, just just Wonka.

Speaker 1 (13:17):
That's great.

Speaker 3 (13:18):
Yeah, I haven't seen the Social Network or Wonka but
well the social networks good.

Speaker 1 (13:23):
I need to watch it.

Speaker 3 (13:25):
Speaking of one word titles, Uh, what if what if
I came to you and said, I'm I'm the Joker?

Speaker 1 (13:32):
Baby? If I said something like that to you, how
you would I.

Speaker 2 (13:39):
Would signal the Batman and and call for help.

Speaker 1 (13:45):
That's interesting.

Speaker 3 (13:46):
This is this is another showdown of Joker versus Batman.
It's like Madonna versus Anddeia. Yeah, you know they have
a famous rivalry.

Speaker 1 (13:56):
Though share versus Sophie. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (13:59):
But yeah, if you were the Joker, I would call
Arkham and I would say, hey, uh, your joker is
I'd be I.

Speaker 1 (14:10):
Have your joker. I have your joker.

Speaker 3 (14:13):
Yeah, you look at my little collar, like if if
missing return to Kham?

Speaker 1 (14:22):
Yeah that place.

Speaker 2 (14:23):
Well, should we talk about our guest and who we're
bringing on the show today.

Speaker 3 (14:29):
Yeah, I'm very excited to be joined this week by
a real life film director, not just a person with
a letterbox account, not just a pretty face. We do
not just love all of our letterboxed users. I'm one

(14:50):
of them, of course, but I'm just saying this is
someone that is beyond, beyond the peanut.

Speaker 1 (14:58):
Gallery of the rubes like us.

Speaker 3 (15:01):
This is someone that's actually on the field on on
the Red Karpatre and producing wonderful films such as The
People's Joker. And today we have the director of the
People's Joker, Vera Drew, on the show, and we're very

(15:21):
excited to have her. Do you got anything else to
tee us off about Vera Drew?

Speaker 1 (15:25):
I don't.

Speaker 2 (15:26):
I loved this interview. I thought she was a great guest,
and I'm really fucking excited about her movie and I'm
so glad that she won her battle against the gaylords
over at DC and what.

Speaker 3 (15:38):
She did, she did, she beat the haters and the
movie is out for you to find, and I believe
that she'lla I think I think we'll talk a little
bit more about that.

Speaker 1 (15:49):
In our interview with Vera Drew.

Speaker 3 (15:51):
So period, I suppose, without further ado, here's our interview
with Vera Drew.

Speaker 2 (16:09):
Today on the pod, We've got Vera Drew. Vera is
a film director and she is the director of the
upcoming film The People's Joker, which we are very excited about,
and so we're going to talk to her today about
the trials and tribulations of being a filmmaker about something

(16:30):
that is potentially copyrighted content that was in the copyright
hell apparently. But yeah, we're really excited to talk to you.

Speaker 1 (16:40):
Well, I guess to start.

Speaker 3 (16:43):
Yeah, you are the director of the brand new twenty
twenty two film The People's Joker, and this was a
movie that I was very excited about at the time.
You were someone that, like I thoughtollowed on Twitter, like
when I like first made my account.

Speaker 1 (17:03):
So we've been aware of you for Yeah.

Speaker 3 (17:05):
Yeah, you were one of the first kind of like highbies,
so like follow me back when I was when I
was a based another one of your shooters, Jane.

Speaker 1 (17:13):
Everyone I get on the show is a shooter of mine.

Speaker 4 (17:16):
Yes, what's that. I've never been called that before.

Speaker 1 (17:21):
A shooter. A shooter.

Speaker 3 (17:24):
It's like someone someone that you ride for, someone that's
like one of your shooters. Like if if Janie's getting
into some stupid shit on Twitter, which is you know,
could happen, Yeah, you're there for her.

Speaker 2 (17:35):
It does all the time, there for her. You're there
to help make sure her ratio stays good all that.

Speaker 7 (17:40):
Oh yeah, I hope I could be that for you.
I certainly feel like you're one of those for me.
I've never heard that. I described that weight.

Speaker 3 (17:49):
But just for the listeners that might not know, tell
us about your movie, and uh, maybe tell us about
some of why it's been held.

Speaker 1 (18:01):
Up for a while, if you want to get into that.

Speaker 7 (18:05):
Yeah, for sure. I so basically I think it was
like May of twenty twenty. Like I used to have
a web series called Hot Topics with Beera Drew that was.

Speaker 1 (18:21):
Oh I with your friend. I remember that. Actually, yeah, it.

Speaker 7 (18:24):
Was basically just a feeble attempt to get No, it
was spelled like the store.

Speaker 4 (18:31):
Okay, oh my god, my cat's just started fighting.

Speaker 7 (18:34):
So this is this is the most chaotic podcast appearance
I've ever done. Sorry, apparently, No, it's it's entirely me.
It's the energy I'm bringing to it today. Yeah, let
me start over. I mean, you could use all of that.
I don't really give a shit. I'm also going to

(18:56):
just turn down this heater that's going.

Speaker 3 (18:59):
Okay, it sounds like you're like putting something in the microwave.

Speaker 7 (19:02):
Yeah, I like it, or like I'm in like some
sort of like a joker cave of some sort.

Speaker 4 (19:09):
Very I kind of am.

Speaker 7 (19:11):
But yeah, to answer your question, it's I made a
trans joker movie. It's like a Joker parody of try
Todd Phillips Joker. You know, Warner Brothers didn't particularly like
that I did that, but I announced that I was
doing it.

Speaker 4 (19:25):
In like.

Speaker 1 (19:27):
They can eat. Yeah, that's what their deal was.

Speaker 4 (19:33):
But yeah, So I premiered at it Tiff last year.

Speaker 3 (19:37):
I haven't been able to see the film yet, but
it looks very cool. It's actually playing at the Applaza
Theater near here in like a few weeks, so I
am excited to go see it. To make a beauty
translated outing yeah we should, we should, but.

Speaker 1 (19:56):
Yeah, I was.

Speaker 3 (19:57):
I guess I'll start here because I was reading this
mor I forgot the uh the article, I forgot the
website that posted it. But they described your film as
a highly personal, incredibly irreverent, stylized memoir movie.

Speaker 1 (20:15):
And I think that's an interesting.

Speaker 3 (20:16):
Way to describe a movie about the Joker. So can
you tell us what made you, like, I guess, what
made you relate to the character of the Joker to
put Well, first of all, is that even true? Like
is that an accurate thing? That this is like a
bit of a personal film for you.

Speaker 4 (20:38):
Yeah, that's like really the best description of it.

Speaker 7 (20:40):
I think that's why it's like so like weird for
me to like talk about sometimes and get into it
because like it really was just like it was like
the most expensive like therapy I've ever done. Really, yeah,
I just like I don't know, like I really was
kind of inspired by Todd Phillips Joker like when I

(21:03):
saw it. Not not necessarily to make this movie, but
like when I first saw it, it was like just
such a weird experience because like I remember people talking
about how like they were going to be like fucking
bombs going.

Speaker 3 (21:17):
On like shootings at every theater that yeah, I remember
that too.

Speaker 4 (21:21):
And then like I don't know, it was just like
the movie was just like I don't know, it.

Speaker 1 (21:27):
Was like a like a drama about mental health. Yeah,
it was so not.

Speaker 7 (21:31):
Like I don't know, like and like I mean, there's
not like like it's a simple story. So I feel
like as far like politically, you could like project a
lot onto it just because like it's kind of just
universally tackling, like yeah, it sucks to be like a
mentally ill American and like a dying dystopian hellscape. But

(21:53):
I really really, you know, I not only like as
like a lifelong comic book fan like just watching that,
it was just like I can't fucking believe this is
the movie that the director of Old School made, right,
and that like Warner Brothers would even like put a
movie out like that, uh, and and that it would

(22:13):
like make like like kind of just be this like
big cultural zeitgeist thing. Like I just kind of thought
it was cool to see something mainstream sort of like.

Speaker 4 (22:22):
Talk about that stuff.

Speaker 7 (22:23):
And so, I mean, but yeah, the original idea for
this just really came from like doing a ton of
writing about myself and I was writing like a like
kind of fucking psycho trans body horror script that was
like about a drag queen that was physically addicted to irony,

(22:46):
and like it was really yeah, no, I mean it's it's.

Speaker 1 (22:52):
All a lot of people.

Speaker 7 (22:55):
I mean, it was uh yeah, and like definitely way
different then what the People's Joker ended up becoming.

Speaker 4 (23:03):
But that was really kind of the Yeah, that was like.

Speaker 1 (23:07):
The the like kind of like the of the idea.

Speaker 7 (23:12):
Yeah, And then Todd Phillips started talking about woke culture
a lot, and I thought it was funny, and my
co writer I thought it was funny, and she commissioned
me on Twitter to re edit Todd Phillips Joker.

Speaker 1 (23:28):
To make it the Woker.

Speaker 7 (23:30):
Yeah, I mean that's that's basically what I attempted to
do at first. Like I was kind of just making
this big, weird like ship post of the Joker.

Speaker 3 (23:40):
Gender is a spectrum. They're like, what, like you wouldn't
get it.

Speaker 1 (23:48):
Joker.

Speaker 7 (23:51):
There was a lot of fart fart sound effects and
wooshes and you know, like slip sounds. But yeah, while
I was doing that, I just kind of like genuinely
remembered how much I like loved those characters growing up
and stuff, and I don't know, just like I I

(24:13):
the whole idea just kind of crystallized all in an
instant where I was just like, oh okay, like it's
I there's I need to make like a trans Joker parody,
Like that's what I need to do right now. And
this was also like while it is like March twenty twenty,
so everything was shut down.

Speaker 1 (24:32):
I came on your hands.

Speaker 7 (24:34):
Yeah, just the time where we were all thriving. I
was an alternative comedy editor for many years, so like
I my job just completely disappeared like all of ours did,
but mine like really did because like, who the fuck
was gonna ever you know, pay me to like add
fart sound effects.

Speaker 4 (24:54):
To something during that you know, a few months there.

Speaker 7 (24:58):
So yeah, it just kind of I'm out with that,
and I was like, I'm just gonna do this. I'm
just gonna like make this movie. And the goal always
was to make it like legally sound. I mean like
I talked to lawyers when we first started writing it,
and and uh, yeah, no, I mean they The thing

(25:24):
about the thing about the law, like about fair use
laws and parody is like it's like porn.

Speaker 3 (25:29):
Or whatever where it's interpretations.

Speaker 7 (25:32):
Yeah, when you know it when you see it, so
like of course, like you know, a big studio, like
if they don't get it or they don't see it,
like it's gonna kind of I'm not.

Speaker 4 (25:47):
I wasn't.

Speaker 7 (25:48):
I wasn't shocked. I think more than anything, I was
shocked just because like yeah, just because like I've been
so open about the fact that I was making it
for years to make so like I was on Twitter,
I was going to meetings at Warner Brothers for other stuff.
Like I worked for fucking Warner Brothers for like almost

(26:08):
a decade because I was working for Adult swims so
like they knew what I was doing, so yeah.

Speaker 3 (26:15):
And it's like what do they expect like that, like
every line of dialogue, like someone looks to the camera
and as like this is a parody, by the way,
like this this is this is fair use parody. I
feel like a lot of fair use laws are the
kind of thing where it's like even if like the
case is like going to go nowhere.

Speaker 1 (26:38):
Like I feel like.

Speaker 3 (26:40):
A lot of like like corporations and stuff, and like
like businesses will like at least like attempt like just
to like inconvenience, you know, Like I feel like you
see this a lot on like YouTube and stuff like
like all the like copyright extra can and all the
kind of.

Speaker 7 (26:58):
Yeah, absolutely the legal stuff aside. I just even like philosophically,
I don't know, like I do. I don't really see
like Marvel movies, and I probably haven't seen like a
DC Comics movie in a few years really besides Flash
just because that was like a fucking crazy.

Speaker 5 (27:20):
Yeah.

Speaker 7 (27:21):
No, I want to be the one that rehabilitates them.

Speaker 1 (27:25):
But we support queer voice.

Speaker 7 (27:28):
Somebody should definitely take that out of context. I yeah, no,
I I just like I kind of like I feel
like I have to hear all the time how like
these characters are like modern religion or modern myths and stuff,
and like if that's the case, like theoretically, like all

(27:50):
laws aside. I'm just saying, like on a like a
stinky artist level, like shouldn't like myth belongs to the people.

Speaker 4 (27:57):
Yeah, you know, no.

Speaker 3 (27:58):
One has a copyright on zeus, right, That's kind of
what I was going to say, is like, isn't The
Joker like such an archetype that like it's not even
it doesn't necessarily belong in my mind to anyone.

Speaker 7 (28:11):
But yeah, and I mean that was really the movie
that I wanted to make with it too, was kind
of like the the I mean like we you know,
you can see it in the trailer, like we recreated
set pieces, like we made an entire three D model
of that's a recreation of of Joaquin Phoenix's apartment in

(28:32):
The Joker, Like we you know did that. That was
done by Paul McBride, who should shout out, but uh,
who doesn't even do Like, who doesn't I don't even
think Paul like makes movies and stuff. Like most of
the people who worked on it were just like cool artists.

Speaker 3 (28:52):
And yeah, as I know some uh friends friends of
mine thought worked on it.

Speaker 1 (28:57):
Shouts out to them the best movies honestly.

Speaker 3 (29:00):
Yeah, so you started production in twenty twenty, did I
catch thought correctly?

Speaker 1 (29:06):
Yeah?

Speaker 7 (29:07):
Like it was such a it was a really organic process,
and as many of us could probably relate, I don't
really remember that year that well, both because I was
like stoned the entire time and just because, like you know,
none of us have processed COVID yet.

Speaker 3 (29:25):
I still haven't gotten sober. Yeah, I loved it. It
was the best year of my life. I didn't have
to work at a restaurant for seven months, and I
still made the same amount of money.

Speaker 1 (29:38):
So no, honestly, take me fucking back.

Speaker 7 (29:40):
I got to like I wouldn't have been able to
make this movie, like that movie or that year was
like my fucking wake up call, because I just I
wanted to make a movie since I was six years old,
like I knew I was a filmmaker before I knew
I was a girl, like I did not and like
watching because that was that same summer, like just with

(30:02):
all the protests happening, and like I saw fucking takes
in like my city. Like it was just like oh okay,
like shit's going off, and like I haven't done the
thing that Like I literally feel like I'm on this
planet to do, like now is the time, and I'm
going to do. I'm going to cash in every single favor.
I'm going to absolutely wore myself out there. I'm going

(30:24):
to put all of me into this.

Speaker 1 (30:26):
Uh So, how many dicks did you see?

Speaker 4 (30:29):
Not enough?

Speaker 7 (30:33):
Uh but yeah, twenty twenty and we shot it in
five days at the end of twenty twenty, which.

Speaker 1 (30:38):
Oh wow, it's insane. That's amazing. Yeah, I did.

Speaker 3 (30:43):
I also wanted to ask, like, since it's kind of
been in this like weird limbo for some time, has
it changed, like or it's like is the one that
you uh like finish, like the one that you like
you I believe you said you premiered it at at tiff, right, Yeah.

Speaker 4 (31:02):
We premiered it at Tiff in twenty twenty two.

Speaker 3 (31:05):
And then that's when it kind of entered it's like
a limbo state, as I'll refer to it. I don't know,
is it like the same, because did you just.

Speaker 1 (31:13):
Leave it alone?

Speaker 7 (31:14):
Like did you just like absolutely not. No, it's it's
uh okay. Yeah, the Tiff. The Tiff cut was like
a very early it was a fresh paint job, and
it was very hard to watch for that reason. I
mean like and that was god like Tiff. It's so crazy.
It's like why I'm like kind of so like cagey

(31:36):
about just talking about the legal stuff sometimes because it's
like the actual experience of Tiff was so.

Speaker 4 (31:43):
Just like amazing and beautiful.

Speaker 7 (31:45):
Like I was finishing the movie ten minutes before I
got in the fucking car to go to Tiff, like
I was still I hit export because my girlfriend was like,
you've been up for three days, like you need to
just you need to finish this, like we gotta go
screen this for a bunch of Canadians. And I hit
export and yeah, like that was that so like it

(32:08):
was I didn't even watch it down before we screened it,
so that first cut was very fresh, but like it
was still like every single joke landed, like people were crying,
like I had this mother of like this this it
was so crazy just because like I clear, I made
this movie for like thirteen year old me and like
just also to like I don't know, like to make

(32:31):
like this kind of trans movie because nobody's ever like
made this kind of trans movie before because I never
could have met Oh, go ahead, I.

Speaker 2 (32:40):
Was gonna say, we're typically like we have to be
like kind of a superhero in a lot of movies
in a sense we're not allowed.

Speaker 7 (32:46):
Totally or a super victory or a super exactly or
be funny or like like I don't know, like there's
just so much like there was like jokes and stuff,
not not like that it was like oh, it's like
should I really like put this out there or whatever,
but like jokes in there where it's like about the

(33:08):
trans experience and stuff where I'm like is this okay
to like talk about because like I just have never
seen it in a movie before. And then like yeah,
like normally it's just like us, you know, offering ourselves
or like falling in love with somebody and them and
making their lives better and then we die at the
end or whatever.

Speaker 4 (33:26):
So like yeah, it was I don't know, like I
always I.

Speaker 1 (33:30):
Was not made by trans generally by trans people.

Speaker 4 (33:33):
Although they're starting to crop up.

Speaker 7 (33:35):
There's a few, like you know, like there's like a
few like neo lib trans filmmakers out there now.

Speaker 3 (33:42):
I want this. This is something we actually talked about
a good bit with Liz Pichell Loveless.

Speaker 1 (33:53):
She's amazing.

Speaker 3 (33:55):
I mean I think like representation like matters, like I guess,
but like it it's not like the end all be all,
you know, and I feel like it would be a
much better sign of progress to like just have like
trans characters. I don't know, like it's just like they're
trans because they are, and that's that's all there is

(34:17):
to it.

Speaker 7 (34:18):
You know. I think that was like I don't know,
it's it's why it's funny when like I don't know,
the like the alt right has finally discovered my movie,
which is funny.

Speaker 1 (34:30):
I mean, that's that's gonna be free class.

Speaker 7 (34:32):
Oh no, I'm like, finally, God damn it. I need
the fucking engagement, especially on X now.

Speaker 1 (34:38):
It's just like it's impossible to everything up.

Speaker 7 (34:42):
But yeah, I mean, like it's funny when people like
I've jokingly called it the woker I like, but like
when people like say it's like it's it's it's fucking
woke or whatever, I'm like, it's not like it's it's
like I I like, I'm not a good role model
in it. It's about a fucking drug addict who like
doesn't get along with her mom and like decides to

(35:06):
do alternative comedy. Like that is like the least inspirational
story on paper, and like certainly not like I have.
I've had trans people like tell me that, like I
shouldn't like make trans villains and stuff like it's it's
I think, you know, like it's absolutely like I mean,
we yeah, but only for the reason too, because like

(35:29):
I don't know, like I my movie is very honest,
it's very personal and like very specific, and like I mean,
like I was saying, like I really only kind of
expected trans people to love it for that reason. But
like I had this experience at Tiff where like this
like mother came up to me, like and she was
just like crying.

Speaker 4 (35:48):
She was like, thank you for making this, Like I can't.
I'm just like I feel like I understand how to
like talk.

Speaker 7 (35:55):
To my daughter a little bit and more now just
having like just sat through that like for ninety minutes,
and like I was like and like like because she
had a trans daughter, and it was like I couldn't
believe that like I would be able to get that
kind of response from it. And that's like to me,
the value of like actual representation and like and I
don't like the word representation because like it's such a

(36:17):
surface level bullshit word.

Speaker 1 (36:18):
But like if we actually get.

Speaker 7 (36:20):
These opportunities to tell our stories and if we actually
get to like I don't know, just like film is
a medium, like if you actually use it in this way,
it's very specific and very honest and autobiographical. It could
not only like be really healing for yourself if you
need that. I certainly did, but it also really people
people connect with specificity.

Speaker 3 (36:43):
Uh yeah, yeah, that's a that's a very good way
to put it.

Speaker 1 (36:47):
I think that's uh. I think that's very true.

Speaker 3 (36:50):
Like yeah, even then, like like a lot of like
like a lot of my favorite songwriters like will like
write something thing that like I might not fully like
quite understand, but like the specificity of their words like
moves me in a way that I'm like like, oh wow,

(37:12):
I have had to rent a room before.

Speaker 1 (37:14):
That's crazy.

Speaker 3 (37:18):
Yeah that is really cool crazy yeah right yeah, Like
they swept floors there too, that's nuts. Like yeah, that
that is that is really beautiful And that is something
that like I long believed representation is not liberation, and

(37:38):
I think it's kind of far from it in many respects.

Speaker 4 (37:41):
And queer art should be like edgy.

Speaker 1 (37:44):
Yeah I do too.

Speaker 3 (37:46):
I feel like we're going nowhere with this like Steven
Universe tuttle puddle bullshit, Like I feel like that's like
only going to like preach to the choir of like
queer people that want to watch things that have like
no like central conflict.

Speaker 1 (38:02):
Yeah, like nice nice. Yeah, this is.

Speaker 2 (38:06):
Like I think trans women should be like, and trans
women in particular, I feel like this happens a lot
where we get boxed into like this, like you can't
be like mean, you can't be a ship poster, you
can't be like just like crazy, you can't you have
to be like.

Speaker 1 (38:21):
The whole model at x y Z.

Speaker 2 (38:23):
And it's like I feel like true liberation is just
to allow us to be like the really fucking people
we are, Yeah, just be humans.

Speaker 3 (38:34):
I don't think we'll have like true liberation until there's
like a trans jackass.

Speaker 1 (38:40):
Yes, well you know what that tech thing was actually on? Right? Riley?

Speaker 3 (38:46):
Okay, Riley had a show for Wow, and they had
a segment on the show that was Jacks and Riley
played really yes, they're like pushing trans bitches and shopping
carts like down a flight, Yes, doing like the cockroach,
like blowing game like through the pipe and like stuff
like that.

Speaker 1 (39:05):
So it was like it's full.

Speaker 2 (39:07):
It was a segment in their actual show avalon TV.
Not watch avalon TV on whow plus. Well, I have
a question for you about playing the Joker, directing this
movie all of that. You know, it's kind of a

(39:29):
well known fact that many actors who have taken on
this role kind of go down, you know, the the
the spiral, the rabbit hole a little bit. What was
that journey like for you and do you feel like
you had to like break your sanity completely to get there?

Speaker 7 (39:51):
Yeah, I mean nobody's ever asked me that yet.

Speaker 3 (39:56):
Like, are you like still like talking like the Joker?
Like awesome? Butler is like permanently talking like Elvis.

Speaker 7 (40:04):
I've always had like I've always had like a cackle,
Like my laugh has always been very joker fed. And
I've noticed that people think I've like I'm like affected
in that way now where it's like but I'm like no,
it's like you should meet meet the rest of my family.
We all sound like crazy fucking nightmare clowns.

Speaker 4 (40:28):
Yeah, cackling.

Speaker 1 (40:29):
I love a cackle.

Speaker 3 (40:30):
Cackles are like cute to me, like because it's I
love when like you can tell people are like tickles.

Speaker 1 (40:37):
Yeah, I mean just I love I love a good cackle.

Speaker 4 (40:40):
Oh yeah, cackles are great.

Speaker 7 (40:43):
I'm I'm I hope, I hope I can be good
for cackle representation at the very least. But yeah, no,
I went fucking crazy making this movie. Like I I mean, like, look,
it really was, like I mean, I guess I should
say what the movies like really actually about.

Speaker 4 (41:00):
I didn't really like it.

Speaker 7 (41:01):
It follows, you know, this closeted trans woman who basically
like grows up in the Midwest and leaves home like
non affirming parents with dreams of like being on like
this like SNL type show. And so she moves to

(41:23):
a place called Gotham City. And this is in a
like a nightmare reality where comedy is illegal, which was
an element that America if anything, I'm like, the alright
should connect with that because they're always saying that, but right, yeah,

(41:44):
and she basically like starts her own illegal comedy theater
and she kind of like finds love and discovers herself,
and yeah, it sort of follows the traditional like coming
of age heroes journey in that way from there. But
uh yeah, like I really it's it's very with all

(42:04):
of that in mind. Like it's super based on my life.
Like I came from the Midwest. I was doing comedy,
like way too young. I started doing sketch and improv
when I was thirteen.

Speaker 4 (42:15):
I was a part of this, Like.

Speaker 2 (42:17):
There's a lot of things you could be doing way
too young, And I think comedy is because maybe okay
I was, I was on Craigslist way too young.

Speaker 7 (42:26):
Okay, well I yeah, no, that's fair. I mean, but
comedy can lead to Craigslist, is my point. You know,
comedy that at that age because like I mean, thank
god I had it too, because like I was such
a fucking I was crazy in high school. Like I
was nuts and like needed, uh some sort of outlet

(42:49):
and like being able to like go to the city
like I grew up in the South suburbs of Chicago
and like being able to like go downtown and like
it was the place where I discovered how to be
me safely while also like you know, getting a few
drug problems and like getting into really codependent relationships with

(43:09):
a bunch of comedians and like making a lot of
art that was cool and fun and I'm like proud of.
But like also you know, at times inauthentic to me
at other times like very like self hatey and like
kind of just like almost like high concept self harm.

(43:30):
So like this movie's kind of about all of that,
and like so like and it was, it was about
all of that very intentionally in a way to like
process it in like a healthy way because I'd been
working on I mean, like I feel like.

Speaker 4 (43:45):
I came out when I was like twenty eight.

Speaker 7 (43:48):
I came out earlier than that, is queer like just
generally like all right, I'm gonna start dressing different and
kissing different.

Speaker 1 (43:56):
At similar thing for me honestly.

Speaker 7 (43:59):
So everybody just thought I was a gay man.

Speaker 4 (44:04):
Yeah yeah, exactly. Yeah. I mean so I couldn't.

Speaker 7 (44:12):
I just like therapy wasn't enough, Like I needed to
like basically re enact my life to like actually understand.

Speaker 4 (44:19):
No, like I mean fucking put it on a T shirt.
Like it really wasn't.

Speaker 7 (44:22):
Like I was just caught in these dumb cycles of
just like recreating like just the toxic structures I grew
up around.

Speaker 1 (44:31):
It's very senecticy New York.

Speaker 4 (44:34):
I'll take it.

Speaker 3 (44:39):
Speaking of Charlie Kaufman as as an aside as someone
that I've always thought as secretly trans too.

Speaker 4 (44:45):
But yeah, I.

Speaker 7 (44:50):
Will never I will never assign that to anybody, but
he's his work does, especially that last one has a
very uh vibe to it.

Speaker 1 (45:02):
I'm thinking of ending things.

Speaker 3 (45:04):
Yeah, yeah, no, it does, like all if, all of
his screenplays, all of his movies have some kind of
like gender bending and them to some degree. There's like
Cameron Diaz and Who's goat like wants to be John Malkovich,
And there's like, uh fuck, what's his other goddamn movies?

Speaker 1 (45:25):
It that's a matter.

Speaker 3 (45:26):
But yeah, I'm firmly against uh self, I ding for
other people, as we've taken stros numerous times.

Speaker 4 (45:35):
But well is trans.

Speaker 7 (45:43):
Yeah, I'm sorry, no, but I love it. I don't know,
and like I mean it tone complimentary too when I
say it about him, because like I just like it's
why I've always connected with his art and like Ari
Aster too and both Cronenbergs. I'm like, like, I it's
like I don't know, like really good ally filmmakers or.

Speaker 1 (46:05):
Something Charlie Kaufman.

Speaker 3 (46:07):
There's something I also know that his book ant Kind
has a lot of uh like intense gender bending stuff
at a I definitely see like something very like transcendent
and like the work of Cronenberg in the way that
like I don't know it's all it's all about, like
kind of like the next yeah new flesh.

Speaker 1 (46:27):
Yeah, or fucking his last.

Speaker 3 (46:29):
Movie, Crimes of the Future, is about one of Yeah,
it's one of the most trans movies I've ever seen. Like,
surgery is the new sex, Like, I mean, are you
like I remember like feeling really smart when I thought
about that as like surgery, Like if you think about
like sex, like not as like the physical act, but

(46:50):
sex as like you know, gender, like surgery is the
new sex. Like it makes like even more sense. But yeah,
Crimes of the Future is an awesome movie.

Speaker 1 (46:59):
Yeah, fucking I.

Speaker 7 (47:00):
Love them existence too, Like they like in that one
basically have like like weird little like like pussies installed
in their tailbones.

Speaker 1 (47:12):
Awesome. Yeah, it's very cool. It's very cool.

Speaker 3 (47:16):
Yeah, there's a lot of there's a lot of Yannic
imagery and in his films, Video Drone being another very
obvious one.

Speaker 1 (47:24):
And crash. I mean that like Jesus Christ extensively on
the pod.

Speaker 3 (47:30):
Yeah, it's a beautiful movie, Like God, damn, I'll let
you borrow it if you want. I don't have a
media player, what well, let me borrow that too.

Speaker 1 (47:44):
You can't borrow my Xbox. I need it. I need
it to get drunk and play an avy cart and yeah, yeah, I'll.

Speaker 3 (47:52):
Put it on a thumb drive and mail it to you.
So what's next for Vera Drew? Are we doing the
People's the People's Jigsaw?

Speaker 7 (48:01):
I would love to make a fucking Saw movie, but
I would love to get hired to make one, like,
I don't know, if I like, please like, I will,
I'll take any studio notes.

Speaker 1 (48:12):
I will, I will, I will like we need as
much to a Saw?

Speaker 7 (48:17):
Oh yeah, I mean that's another series that also there's
something about Saw that feels.

Speaker 1 (48:23):
Well, we've been talking. We talked about this with liking.

Speaker 4 (48:29):
Yeah, maybe this is a conversation.

Speaker 2 (48:30):
I'm trying to get so many things covered by insurance
right now for my gender affirming surgeries and whatnot, and
I am having the hardest time, and Janey just keeps
telling me about the plot of Sauce six, which is
when the insurance.

Speaker 3 (48:44):
It's torturing a bunch of insurance executives.

Speaker 1 (48:47):
I think it should be.

Speaker 3 (48:48):
Something of that nature, you know, Like I was thinking,
like the People's Jigsaw would be like it's like a
guy who's like like bullied trans women like.

Speaker 1 (49:01):
Takes up and.

Speaker 3 (49:01):
He's like like uh, he's like on like a scale, right,
and he's got to make the scale like increase in
weight or it's something like squishes his entire body really slowly,
and he's got to like insert like breasts and plants
like under he's got to give himself a book job

(49:23):
and then he understands gender dysphoria.

Speaker 7 (49:26):
From that, it's like about creating sympathy.

Speaker 1 (49:30):
Yeah, that's beautiful.

Speaker 7 (49:32):
I had a saw porno idea that was called Scissor,
and it was like the idea was basically like putting.
It was all about like cuckolding and like basically like
putting like you know, rich executives wives into these like
machines that turn them lesbian and stuff. Was my initial.

(49:53):
You can feel free to cut that, keep it. I
don't give a.

Speaker 1 (49:59):
It's easy to just keepe it me pushing.

Speaker 4 (50:02):
It by answering what I'm actually working on next.

Speaker 7 (50:06):
I just edited Alice McKay's new feature, which is a
Christmas slasher movie called Carnage for Christmas.

Speaker 4 (50:17):
I don't know when that's coming out.

Speaker 7 (50:18):
I know it's like hitting festivals this year, but that's
super fucking awesome and cool.

Speaker 3 (50:23):
If it comes out by Christmas, that's perfect.

Speaker 7 (50:26):
Yeah, yeah, I hope I hopefully hopefully does. And then yeah,
I'm writing two things right now. One of them's kind
of that like body horror idea I was describing, but
you know, like I had a lot of stuff that
I left from that when I took a lot of

(50:47):
it for Joker, and that's hopefully coming out soon. I
haven't really said what it's about too much yet, so
I don't really know if I.

Speaker 1 (50:56):
Want to do that. But have you, like, have you
been shooting it or are you just still like I'm like.

Speaker 7 (51:00):
I'm I've got like a script in and we're putting
another one together to hopefully start getting some cast.

Speaker 1 (51:07):
Are do you mostly film in La?

Speaker 4 (51:09):
Yeah?

Speaker 7 (51:10):
We filmed Joker in La. I think this next thing
is probably going to be in Canada, just because I'm
developing it with this Canadian production company called Stellar Citizens,
and I kind of like the idea of shooting it
in Canada just because like it's set in a suburb
of Chicago, and like I just I kind of wanted

(51:32):
to have like this nineties movie vibe where like and
like every nineties movie is like fucking shot in Vancouver,
when it's like, yes, Chicago, Chicago or yeah Home Alone.

Speaker 3 (51:42):
No Home Alone was actually Chicago, right.

Speaker 1 (51:44):
That's Home Alone.

Speaker 4 (51:46):
Yeah, they actually that was.

Speaker 3 (51:50):
I don't know, it's just like that's not the example
that I thought you would use for a movie Nineties houses.

Speaker 1 (51:56):
I think if Home Alone, you know, right.

Speaker 3 (51:59):
Oh, I thought I thought you were saying like movies
that were like shot like in like Vancouver as a
substitute for New York.

Speaker 7 (52:06):
Yeah, Like I think like they use Toronto a lot
for Chicago in the nineties and Vancouver for New York.

Speaker 5 (52:12):
And and then.

Speaker 1 (52:15):
I was gonna say, I love me some X File.

Speaker 7 (52:18):
Yeah, I love it when they're like the only episodes
that have any realism is when they're actually in the
Pacific Northwest, because like every other one's like there, we're
in southern California and there's just like a gorgeous forest
and mountain range behind them.

Speaker 3 (52:31):
Like lesh ferns and like moss and everything. Yet Yeah,
and they don't have to like use like like any
kind of effects for like the aliens and stuff because
those are just out there. Yeah, like they're there you
can find in Canada. I did just kind of want
to ask, like, so like now that like it's out

(52:52):
and yeah, the movie, the movie is out and people
can see it, Like how has I feel like you
kind of answered this hall, but like how's how's the
reception then? Like, because I believe me, I really appreciate
that you made something that just certainly speaks to the
kind of like trannisphere that like birth birth.

Speaker 1 (53:13):
To I love that term.

Speaker 3 (53:15):
Is the broader uh movie watching Spectrum are the Are
they rocking with the people's joker?

Speaker 1 (53:21):
Yeah?

Speaker 4 (53:21):
I mean I guess you know.

Speaker 7 (53:23):
During the limbo period, like I was screening it a lot,
like we did. We did a lot of secret screenings.
I did a whole tour in Australia. The movie like
is kind of like a cult classic in Australia, which
is fucking just amazing, I think because it's kind of
it has like an edge Lord recovering edge Lord vibe

(53:45):
to it, and like Australia really appreciates that.

Speaker 2 (53:49):
Like I have some Australian listeners. Shout out to our
Australian listeners.

Speaker 1 (53:53):
I love that's cool.

Speaker 4 (53:54):
My favorite maybe my favorite place I've ever been.

Speaker 3 (53:57):
Aw I've got Jinda Desria too, mate.

Speaker 7 (54:06):
But yeah, we so we did screenings, like a bunch
of screenings all over you know, North America too, at
festivals and the movie Like it seems like people really
fucking love this movie, Like it really it's really resonated.
I think with both you know, trans people and like
and SIS audiences.

Speaker 4 (54:25):
Like, you know, I get why.

Speaker 7 (54:28):
It's a tough sell for some CIS people just because like,
you know, it's I guess it's sad to think about
us or something.

Speaker 3 (54:38):
Yeah, I feel like a lot of CIS and straight
people will like just be turned off by the nature
of like they'll see that it's like a queer movie
and be like, oh, this isn't for me.

Speaker 2 (54:51):
Or they don't feel safe making fun. So I feel
like there's like an element of that, Yeah, am I
okay laughing at them?

Speaker 7 (54:58):
It's so that's my favorite audience though, is like because
like there's there's so many jokes in the movie that
like it's it is like uncomfortable for SIS people to
laugh at it, like just just about you know, coding
and whippets and you.

Speaker 1 (55:16):
Know, all the all the stuff that's like.

Speaker 4 (55:19):
So like I don't know, like I feel like SIS
people could appreciate it.

Speaker 7 (55:22):
I mean, like if you have a bad relationship with
your mom, this movie's for you.

Speaker 4 (55:26):
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (55:28):
That sounds like me. Yeah, I wish my mom was
the mom in Canada. Who I know.

Speaker 7 (55:36):
There's there's been I mean, like the experience of having
it really resonate with people has been really cool and
like I was never really I couldn't have imagined having
this much exposure this early in my career, and like
there have been a lot of interactions with people after
screenings and stuff that have been like just because of

(55:56):
how much it's like resonated with people, Like they've been
very intense interactions, Like I like this girl came up
to me out of screening like basically hyperventilating, uh because
of just like how much it like resonated with her.

Speaker 4 (56:10):
And I was just like.

Speaker 7 (56:12):
Ah, yeah, I'm mentally ill too, so I gotta go,
like I'm sorry, I can't.

Speaker 4 (56:19):
Like it's it's kind of it's intense.

Speaker 7 (56:22):
But it's cool though, because like it has forced me
to really like I've really gotten my shit together in
this process. Like I someday I'll be able to like
talk all about it. But like TIF, the TIF experience
was like literally the most traumatic experience of my life.
Like it was it was really it was heartbreaking and

(56:43):
really uh kind of ripped apart my life, uh to
be quite honest, and like I had this opportunity to
you know make my life worse with various things that
I've done in the past to do that, and like
I also had this other chance to really just like
lean into the shit that works and lean on you know,

(57:06):
the people that helped me make it, like both to
like get me back out there and go like, no,
it's good, like we got to keep let's just keep
showing it, and like they haven't done anything yet, so
like let's just do it. And yeah, it's It's been
a real cool opportunity to grow and I feel very

(57:27):
lucky to have been able to like you know make
it and have it not only like get interest in
like future projects in mine and stuff like the fact
that I could like get to have conversations like this,
but also just like, yeah, it's it did kind of
heal some trauma and help me develop some better tools

(57:47):
for dealing with being in this like horrible fucking nightmare reality.

Speaker 3 (57:53):
Yeah yeah, And it sounds like it's it's helping other
people deal with that too, which is a very special thing.

Speaker 4 (58:01):
Yeah, It's all all I could ask for.

Speaker 7 (58:02):
And and also like I'm looking forward to like some
trans people seeing it and just having the experience going
like Okay, it's fine or it's not for me, Like
I really I hope it at the very least, Like
it just feels good to like watch a trans person
on screen for an entire movie, because that's doesn't happen.

Speaker 3 (58:23):
Having trans representation means that we will have, uh will
be able to have trans people making mid things, and
that's okay too. That's a podcast, I mean yeah, And
it doesn't have to be like contingent on like there
like like gender, sex or whatever, Like it can just

(58:45):
be mid because it's mid.

Speaker 1 (58:47):
And I think that there's a beauty in that too.

Speaker 7 (58:51):
Having now met like the uh kind of bland toothless
trans filmmakers that I kind of hinted that like just
the you know, the kind of like people making like
assimilation is start Like having met like trans people like
that now, I'm like, oh my god, like it gave
me hope, like because it's just like, yeah, we're like

(59:13):
actually we're starting to enter the economy, like they're gonna
not be able to like ignore us anymore. Like it's
it's kind of like I'm glad I don't have to
fill that role uh too much, but yeah, it's.

Speaker 3 (59:27):
I'm very glad that you are out here making something
that's like truly like transgressive and something that's like actually
like ruffling people's feathers. Like I I love to see that.
I would love that over any other kinds of.

Speaker 1 (59:45):
Or yeah, like.

Speaker 3 (59:46):
Assimilationist art like whatever whatever you want to call it,
whatever it is. I that that's the kind of art
that is not for me in any way.

Speaker 1 (59:56):
So yeah, I love I love that you're actually.

Speaker 3 (01:00:00):
Doing something transgressive because that's always like, that's that's what
I go for in like pretty much all arts, like
whether it's like queer, trans or what. And I can
definitely say the same for like meeting like uh and
being involved in like trans musicians and stuff where it's
like oh you just honey, like I don't know who

(01:00:25):
you think you're like pissing off with here. But anyway, well.

Speaker 4 (01:00:30):
It's you know, we like live, we live in a society.

Speaker 1 (01:00:33):
Uh that's true. That's true.

Speaker 7 (01:00:36):
We're all like literally everybody now acts like they are transgressive.
Like yeah, literally, it's it's kind of like, especially at
least in America, like it's it's like our national identity,
and I feel like it's kind of always been there,
but like it's to this like obnoxious degree now and
uh yeah, I don't know, it's it's so it's also

(01:00:59):
just very frustrating for me, just as somebody who like
grew up on like fucking Jerry Springer and like Howard
Stern and like John Waters and shit, like the fact
that like the worst people have like staked their claim
on like offensive comedy, like in like queer people don't
own it anymore. Like I'm like, right, well, that is

(01:01:19):
what we're actually losing. Like I actually think we're making
progress like as a whole, but I think like culturally,
like trans people really need to rise up and take
back just being publicly repulsive.

Speaker 2 (01:01:32):
And I'm tired of jokes about fucking top surgery. We
don't need any more jokes.

Speaker 3 (01:01:42):
Yeah, I think he raised a good point because like
it's not like not just like a left wing problem
of like comedy being comedy being illegal, because like I'm
not gonna deny it. There are a lot of like
very like anti comedy left us, like I've met them,

(01:02:02):
like the kind of an annoying trait. Oh yeah, but
it's also a very big problem. Like it's also fucking
right wingers are the least funny people on the planet,
like like Dave Chappelle, like someone who legitimately was a
very funny person at one point being like I'm.

Speaker 1 (01:02:21):
Team Turf, Like have you heard a Turf before?

Speaker 3 (01:02:24):
They're the most anti comedy people on the planet.

Speaker 2 (01:02:28):
Like somebody having a baby, They're gonna like, you know,
fucking police you on.

Speaker 1 (01:02:33):
It, dude.

Speaker 3 (01:02:34):
I'm seeing like right wing people like log on x
the everything app every day and be like we need
to stop making fun of the birth of Jesus Christ.

Speaker 1 (01:02:44):
It's like you are a baby.

Speaker 7 (01:02:47):
It's like yeah, So, like I don't know, I think
in general everybody just has we have too much access.
I'm not saying anything like revolutionary or but like I've
become very like Boomer about like philosophically when it comes
to social media, but like same, it really is just

(01:03:08):
like we have way too much access to all everybody,
like even my friends, Like I know everybody's like toilet
thoughts now, you know, like I know every single.

Speaker 1 (01:03:20):
Yeah, it's the funny way to put it, mental diarrhea.

Speaker 2 (01:03:24):
We're not built to process like every person that we
like remotely or like even kind of know their every
internal thought and like political feelings and all of that.

Speaker 1 (01:03:36):
Like it's just so much to like hold.

Speaker 2 (01:03:39):
We're meant to like yeah, like eat, sleep, shit, breathe
and like watch a movie I don't know.

Speaker 7 (01:03:47):
Pray and and and uh and salute the flag.

Speaker 1 (01:03:52):
To lay flat, to lay flat and watch I need
to lay flat. I want to do that is like me, you.

Speaker 7 (01:03:57):
Know, no, it's it's so I don't know, like it's
I think about it all the time too, Like like
Twitter has always kind of been this, you know, like
I follow ship posters and sex workers and then news
accountings and then activists, so like yeah, it's the whatever
she's doing just seeing all this, just seeing like poorn

(01:04:20):
like dead body then like a ex slur joke and
then like yeah then Jennie, It's like it's like literally
mk Ultra. Yeah, oh my god, no, they would they
would get.

Speaker 3 (01:04:35):
It's like having in your pocket the access to like
the ending of two thousand and one, where just like
going through like all these colors of like instead of
like looking at it with this like transcendent like sense
of like horrified eyes wide like oh my god, you're
just like okay, right, oh okay, all right, okay.

Speaker 7 (01:05:02):
I started meditating a couple of years ago, like after
years of trying to just because like I wicked ADHD
and like sitting still is very hard for me. It
finally stuck and like thank god, just because like I
don't know, I'm so addicted to my my phone and
social media, like I I become a lot better. I mean,

(01:05:24):
especially now that I like, now that I actually get ship,
like I almost got like I got like soft canceled
about AI the other day, like it's it's.

Speaker 4 (01:05:33):
So not fun being on.

Speaker 7 (01:05:35):
Yeah, So like yeah, it's like it's become a lot
easier for me to have healthy boundaries with it. But
like I, yeah, I can't. I don't want to be
any more desensitized than I already am to like violence
and horrible shit.

Speaker 3 (01:05:50):
Yeah, yeah, I got soft canceled for saying something bad
about Green Day.

Speaker 1 (01:05:56):
Like it's it sucks dude anymore.

Speaker 3 (01:06:01):
Yeah, you can't even have like the I will say,
like this isn't exactly new to like the post elon
like Twitter thing like this is always kind of yeah
how it goes, but that's still bad, Like that's still
not like a healthy way to like, uh, interact with
the world, you know, Like no.

Speaker 7 (01:06:20):
It's really not and I don't I just don't really
know what people get out of it beyond like it's
just so mean and like I dun'k I dunk on people,
Like I watched the entirety of True Detective Night Country
and like and tweeted about it every second I was
watching it, and like I was mean.

Speaker 4 (01:06:41):
I was talking about a.

Speaker 7 (01:06:42):
Bad show, Like I wasn't like your ideas suck and
like everything like just like having.

Speaker 3 (01:06:47):
People a little mad about it. So it's so crazy,
how dah Detective Night Country?

Speaker 4 (01:06:59):
Thankfully nobody can.

Speaker 7 (01:07:00):
I tried to cancel me for I feel like Night
Country was so bad that like the.

Speaker 3 (01:07:04):
People watched it the whole time just confused. I was like,
do I like this? Do I hate this?

Speaker 1 (01:07:09):
Do I like what it was?

Speaker 7 (01:07:10):
Like Twin Peaks the Return or something like it was.
So it was just because it was kind of boring.

Speaker 1 (01:07:16):
Like the return as incredible, but like.

Speaker 7 (01:07:20):
You know what I mean, like the weird like just
stationary shots and like still like it's just like it
was so stilted and weird.

Speaker 3 (01:07:28):
That's interesting because I didn't watch it, but I did
watch True Detective season two and a lot of it,
like cribbed from Twin Peaks, like it's pretty pretty like
egregiously too in a way that really like turned me off.
But that being said, I kind of like season two
even though it was it was stupid, but like I

(01:07:49):
kind of like a.

Speaker 1 (01:07:51):
We gotta, we gotta, we gotta. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:07:55):
Anyway, uh yeah, I'm glad you're out here doing what
you're doing.

Speaker 1 (01:07:59):
I think that that's.

Speaker 3 (01:08:01):
Very for I think I think I mean that pass.

Speaker 4 (01:08:08):
Like talking talking to my parents or something.

Speaker 3 (01:08:11):
All right, well, well that's rushing me out. I'm just
gonna shut my laptop a long way.

Speaker 5 (01:08:19):
Let you.

Speaker 1 (01:08:23):
Great theole you tell people when.

Speaker 3 (01:08:26):
Uh no, you're not the asshole jam thank you?

Speaker 1 (01:08:30):
I love you.

Speaker 3 (01:08:32):
Can you tell people when they can catch the screenings
of the People's Joker.

Speaker 7 (01:08:37):
Yeah, So it's we're kind of like rolling it out
sort of road show style, starting April fifth, uh in
New York at the I f C Center, and then uh, yeah,
we're going to like thirty plus cities from there pretty much. Yeah,
like all the all the big ones and yeah, it's

(01:08:59):
gonna be play coming to it. I'm going to be
doing Q and as at the screening in New York,
the one in La, A couple in La, probably Atlanta, Chicago,
and uh, I do I know, I don't want to.
I love the South and I don't. I'm just so

(01:09:20):
burnt out from traveling from last year. Like it was
I really realized last year, like, oh, I'm not a
road dog. I'm I'm very soft. I need my bed,
I need my cats like I can't. I like can't
not like smoke a pack a day when I'm traveling either,
Like it's constantly when I'm traveling.

Speaker 4 (01:09:43):
Oh.

Speaker 7 (01:09:43):
Same, It's it's just not I'm like the worst, but
like you know, I'm going. So I'm going to a
few fun cities to do Q and as and and Hey,
if you want me to come to your city, Uh,
find some theater that's willing to fly me out, Like
I I'll do it. It's also just very expensive to
do but but yeah, we'll be playing a lot of
different places.

Speaker 5 (01:10:04):
Uh.

Speaker 7 (01:10:05):
And you can get tickets at the People's Joker dot
com or Altered Innocence dot com. That's our distributor. Altered
Innocence is great. They have a really amazing catalog of films.
If you're interested in queer films at all, check it out. Yeah,
they just did a She is Conan good. It's amazing

(01:10:27):
and I'm Vera Drew twenty two on all the social media.

Speaker 1 (01:10:31):
All the everything.

Speaker 2 (01:10:33):
Well, thank you, Vera, it was it was so great
talking to you. I can't wait to see this movie.

Speaker 1 (01:10:38):
And yes, thank you so much.

Speaker 2 (01:10:40):
Having you beatie translated I think bonus movie at review
or something.

Speaker 1 (01:10:44):
Yes, thank you, Thank.

Speaker 2 (01:10:45):
You well, Jannie. That was a fantastic interview with Vera Drew.
I am really fucking excited to go see The People's
Joker together when it comes out in theaters next month. Yes,
do we want to take some calls?

Speaker 3 (01:11:07):
Yeah, let's take some motherfucking calls. Let's hear what people
got us.

Speaker 1 (01:11:10):
Roll these tapes.

Speaker 2 (01:11:11):
First, one is a callback on a on a on
a love affair.

Speaker 1 (01:11:15):
Oh a follow up. Follow up. Yeah, oh yeah, love
our first follow up?

Speaker 3 (01:11:20):
Yeah, follow up if you if you've called us and
you want to give us more follow up.

Speaker 5 (01:11:25):
Hi, girls, I'm calling again. It's me Victoria.

Speaker 4 (01:11:30):
Uh.

Speaker 5 (01:11:31):
I already gave Carmen some context for background information, but
I basically I have another dilemma. And I was dating
this guy last year. We'll call him mister key Shane.
We were seeing each other for like four months, and
out of those four months, you know, we saw each
other three times. It was really hard to set up
a day. He was really inconsistent, and on the last date,

(01:11:54):
I had gotten back from Japan and I brought him
a cute key Shane and a couple of days later,
I get a message from him from his phone with
a video of the Keyshane in the trash can and
a message that said he has a girlfriend and thanks
thanks for the gift, and we lived together.

Speaker 1 (01:12:13):
Dad.

Speaker 5 (01:12:14):
I basically laughed, because, of course, of course this is happening,
Like how cliche can this be? Like, of course, this
is like the most cliche thing that could happen to
a transpop that's dating a straight man. Anyways, I just
assumed he didn't break up with his girlfriend that he
has told me about. That he broke up like a
couple of months ago, which is why he wanted to

(01:12:35):
take things slow because it was a long distance relate
I mean a long term relationship. So he basically disappeared.
He never like talked to me again. I didn't also
like inquire more like I just laughed and ignored everything else.
So fast forward to last week, I had gotten a message.
I got a message from him apologizing and asking if

(01:12:57):
we can meet up so he can explain what happened.
So we met up last Friday, and he basically told
me that he went on a date with this girl
and she got really wasted and drunk and couldn't drive
back home, so he let her stay in his spare room. Yeah,
and basically never left, and she squatted in his apartment

(01:13:20):
and forced him basically to get into a relationship with him.
And he's a type of pride that doesn't know how
to say non and has a hard time setting boundaries.
He's lying anyways, after she did all that, she sent
that message and she basically shit it on every of
his contacts. He had to delete his social media accounts

(01:13:40):
and change numbers. He's lying Anyways, he feels really shitty
for any says that he might have cost me given me.
He doesn't want to get into a relationship super fast,
but he wants to pick up where we left stop.
Should I believe him and give him one another shams?
Or is this just he's just like lying and like

(01:14:03):
you're going through like hoops and like hurdles, who like
hide the fact that he's like in a relationship or
doesn't really want to.

Speaker 1 (01:14:14):
Get into a.

Speaker 5 (01:14:15):
Relationship with a trans girl. I don't know. He's also by,
so I don't see why he would be You mean
he would act that weight?

Speaker 1 (01:14:22):
Well you said straight? Is he by? Or is he straight?
I'm in we're splitting hairs.

Speaker 3 (01:14:30):
Okay, Yeah, I'm really hung up on the keychain because
that's very like mean and dramatic and I'm like shallow
a little bit, so like that would be like the
like no, I'm never talking to again, Like it's one
thing to just like I don't know, like break up
with me, like unprompted and like no.

Speaker 2 (01:14:50):
This was a girl that he's living with that is
apparently squad So apparently he has according to this story,
he has a girl that is squatting with him that
is apparently his girlfriend. But he says that it's just

(01:15:10):
some girl that stayed the night with him and just
never went home, which is a bunch of bulls.

Speaker 3 (01:15:14):
No, I don't believe that for her, that's a bunch
of Yeah, I don't believe that for a second.

Speaker 2 (01:15:20):
And so the text message was from the girl from
his phone sending him sending her a picture of the
key chain in the trash can, saying he has a
girlfriend already, blah blahhh.

Speaker 1 (01:15:32):
Yeah, okay, that makes all right. Okay.

Speaker 3 (01:15:34):
I thought he was saying like and no, okay, yeah,
I was a bit confused. Okay, I would say you
need to get contact with that girl and say, diva,
he said that you're a squatter. Uh you know, I'm
gonna be honest as tempting as it is to like
be like messy and blow up his spot like that. Yeah,

(01:15:56):
if you do that, Like it sounds like this girl's
kind of crazy, and it sounds like crazing.

Speaker 1 (01:16:02):
Like girls like that aren't.

Speaker 3 (01:16:03):
They're never like reasonable and they're never like going to
be like oh, yeah, you're right. He's the one that
was cheating on me and he's bad. That girl is
gonna be like, and where are you. I'm gonna fight you, right,
They're going to try to fight you, like there's no
rational thinking. I hooked up with a guy a few

(01:16:24):
years ago, and I don't know it. It was very
like normal, like like he just came over, we like
had sex, and he went home. And then the next
day I get like a call from my roommate that's
like there's some crazy girl at our house who's like
banging on the door and it's like asking for you.
I was like, what the fuck? But tell them I

(01:16:46):
don't live there, Lie, tell tell them to leave. I
don't live there. You haven't seen me, you don't know
who I am. And my roommate was like.

Speaker 1 (01:16:54):
Oh, I told her where you were or something. I
was like, what the fuck back.

Speaker 3 (01:16:59):
Fortunately, they never like showed up or anything, but I
remember like texting him and being like what the hell
is going on?

Speaker 1 (01:17:05):
And he was like, oh, yeah, this girl.

Speaker 3 (01:17:09):
He basically gave me a very like similar Lie was like, yeah,
I've been like staying with my ex girlfriend and we're
not together, but we like lived together. And she went
through my phone and found out that I went over
and saw you. I was like, you could you could
on it, You could be honest, Like you can just say,
like I was cheating on my girlfriend and I didn't
tell you, like honestly, I like I get it, like

(01:17:33):
like that's still wrong, but like I understand that, you know,
you don't have to make up For some reason, guys
like feel the need to like make up some kind
of like story like that.

Speaker 1 (01:17:46):
I guess.

Speaker 3 (01:17:47):
I guess it makes them feel better what they're doing. Yeah,
even though it's they it's a lie.

Speaker 1 (01:17:54):
Yeah, And I just I don't know that.

Speaker 3 (01:17:55):
That's kind of what I would compare this story to
is because it's like it's something that's like just so
clearly like lie, but they're just going with it anyway.
And yeah, there's no way like even if I got
in contact with this girl, I was like, hey, because
this girl, this is like an angry Italian girl that's

(01:18:16):
like came to my house to kill me. Like there's
not going to be like any reasoning with that. Stop
trying to guess who it is that we can talk
about that later stuff. Uh yeah, we can, we can
talk about that later. I don't I don't want to
get this angry fucking little house of gucci ass bitch

(01:18:37):
at my house again.

Speaker 1 (01:18:38):
So let's just avoid of Gucci. Let's avoid doing that
for now.

Speaker 3 (01:18:45):
But yeah, there's there there would have been no reasoning
with me like that that like.

Speaker 2 (01:18:57):
Italian when somebody's mindset is already that the the other
person is the problem and not the person who's cheating
is the problem, like there's already no way to logically
like it's like you're just stupid and yeah, like exactly,
you're stupid, and like your boyfriend is the problem, you know, Yeah,

(01:19:22):
and he called you a squatter bitch.

Speaker 3 (01:19:23):
What are you gonna do about it? I'm getting dumb,
Yeah I know. Yeah, no that is like yeah, no,
you're right, like that is crazy and no, I just
from my experience with I don't know, little firecrackers like that,
you don't want to like, I don't know, just walk away, right,
just walk away and this girl's gonna drive to your

(01:19:45):
house and you just don't Like I saw her Instagram
and she was like posing with like guns and shit.
I was like no, like, no, I don't want anything
to do with this. Okay, I don't think I actually
know that. Later, yeah no, it was like that was
so funny. Yeah, no, you don't want you just walk away.
You don't want no part of this dewey like walk

(01:20:06):
away is you.

Speaker 2 (01:20:08):
Don't want anything to do with the guy, because all
that's going to do is just like a lot more
and more lies. Like he's gonna come up with like
more and more lies all the time.

Speaker 3 (01:20:16):
I feel like, right, I mean, in a perfect world,
you could reason with this girl and then you and
her start up a very like sapphic relationship where you
go on like a crime spree together, and that would
be like starting that's like the perfect ending here, starting
with robbing this guy.

Speaker 1 (01:20:35):
Yeah yeah, starting with tying him up.

Speaker 3 (01:20:37):
Robbing him you accidentally like, uh, tie him up too tight,
it cuts off the circulation.

Speaker 1 (01:20:44):
He dies, You got to cover it up. And then
it's an episode of p Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:20:50):
Yeah, it's it's it's you know, the movie Jawbreaker happens
and uh yeah that that that would be the ideal
day for this, but that's not gonna happen.

Speaker 1 (01:21:02):
So yeah, so.

Speaker 3 (01:21:03):
Leading there's plenty of other bisexual fish in the sea,
and uh yeah, just you gotta go deadly as catch
go grab a different one. She's going to I know
she will.

Speaker 1 (01:21:16):
She's going she's probably doing it right now.

Speaker 2 (01:21:19):
Is she's doing it right now? And we're proud of you, Carl. Yeah, okay,
shall we take the next one?

Speaker 1 (01:21:26):
Yeah, let's set up.

Speaker 6 (01:21:30):
Hey, ladies, listen to Ohio here. So I've been looking
at this place still for about two years now, starting
about a week before I started hormones, and my coworkers
I probably look like a fifteen year old boy who
keeps getting younger, looking like Benjamin Buttons. But recently I've
been suffering from success and have grown into d cups.
I hide them of her jackets for the most part

(01:21:51):
when I can, and nobody seems to notice, or at
least nobody has mentioned them. With the summer coming up
and my job requiring to the collectivity, binding doesn't really
seem plausible to maintain stealth. What are the best ways
to explain away suddenly having booths to coworkers? Please don't
call me a boy motor, I'll lose it.

Speaker 3 (01:22:10):
Say that you're trans Yeah, the way to explain it?
What do you want me to tell you? You could
say that you're in the plot of a titan and
you had sex with a vehicle that got you pregnant
and now you've been binding, and the one day and
say the baby's coming soon and you can't keep binding anymore.

Speaker 1 (01:22:33):
The fact that.

Speaker 2 (01:22:34):
You're even thinking about binding is like, girl, get a
grip and just face the reality, face the Musicma.

Speaker 1 (01:22:41):
What do you mean binding? You got d cups?

Speaker 2 (01:22:45):
Bitch, I got a fucking a cup and I've been
on the moons for fifteen years.

Speaker 4 (01:22:49):
Girl.

Speaker 1 (01:22:49):
Okayah, that's a mate.

Speaker 3 (01:22:51):
Yeah. No, you're one of like God's chosen people and
you want to bind your breasts.

Speaker 1 (01:22:57):
What are you saying? Uh? No, you gotta let those
puppies fly. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:23:04):
This is very important to me because transit, you know,
trans history is just something that's very important to me.
But I'm not going to call you a boy motor
because uh you're you're not a boy Well I don't know,
maybe you were. But what I will say is you
are not stealth. You are in the closet. Okay, now

(01:23:24):
I'm in the closet recording this podcast, but in real life,
I am a trans woman. Now to most people that
meet me, you might consider me sealth because they assume
that I'm a sis woman. Being in the closet and
being stealth are two extremely different things.

Speaker 1 (01:23:43):
A mandolier.

Speaker 2 (01:23:45):
That's stealth, honey, Okay, but not being in the closet,
So that's very important to me.

Speaker 3 (01:23:51):
Yeah, stealth doesn't mean like stealth doesn't mean like people
assume I'm my assigned gender at birds and stealth is
like people assume that you're like you're you were assigned
like the opposite gender birth absolutely and no one has
like detected that you're trans. And stealth is like, I mean,

(01:24:13):
that is something that is only bestowed to like the
like highest echelon of God's Showsen children, like I'm sorry,
Like Hunter Schaefer is not even someone that's like considered
like sealth's because we know that she's trans. Yeah, exactly,
Like like that is like that's not really really I

(01:24:34):
think I think Carmen's a little hung up on the
use of the wa.

Speaker 4 (01:24:36):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:24:36):
It drives me crazy because I see and I'm not
calling you a boymotor, but I see boymotors do this
all the time where they say that there's stealth and
I'm like, no, honey, you're in the closet. You're denying
your your authenticity. That is not the same thing as being.

Speaker 3 (01:24:51):
I mean, I understand I understand it from like safety
concerns and stuff. But like me and you have talked
about this because like I saw what you went through
as a teenager, and it made me not want to
come out because I was like, goddamn, like that looks
fucking brutal.

Speaker 1 (01:25:08):
Like, but if you're already doing the mon.

Speaker 3 (01:25:10):
I'm just saying I don't blame anyone for not wanting
to go through the brutality of the trans experience. However,
the thing is, I'll say it's better now than it
was when I was in high school. True, I mean
it's it's it's annoying, and I being you're gonna have
to deal with all, like, yeah, it's in it. Yeah,
being trans is inconvenient. It's inconvenient having to take hormones

(01:25:35):
that align with like how like your body feels like.
It's inconvenient that other people are just born with lady
hormones flowing through their body, right, it's inconvenient that other
people are born with like the body parts that they want.

Speaker 1 (01:25:52):
You know, I'm still you know, I'm trying to Being.

Speaker 3 (01:25:56):
Trans is is inconvenient, like by definition, Yeah, but there's
really no avoiding it, unfortunately, you know, unless at a
certain point there's not like I mean, I think if
you're fucking I think the only way to really like
avoid it is to just like not transition like suppress it. Yeah,
to suppress it to like a dangerous way like and

(01:26:19):
I and I don't. It doesn't sound like you're suppressing
it if you've been on hormones and have grown fucking
fat ass cities like that's wow, Like.

Speaker 2 (01:26:28):
You've got a cunty voice. You've got big fucking d cups.
I mean that voice was cunty. Okay, you've got tigle bitties.
Just fucking it.

Speaker 3 (01:26:36):
Sounds like people have like noticed already from what you're saying,
Like they're probably like, God, I wish this girl would
just hurry up, and fucking's.

Speaker 1 (01:26:45):
That's also possible.

Speaker 3 (01:26:46):
It's very possible that they're sitting there thinking like, wow,
this this is a closeted because honestly, again, I guess
you have an aversion to the word boymot. But I
can spot a boy motor instantly. Me and Sam were
watching this game show called The Floor that is really
fucking stupid, But what one of the contestants was a

(01:27:09):
boy motor. Spotted it instantly, and then I did like
a quick Google search and found out I was completely correct.
But yeah, it's not it's something that like, it's just
I don't know. I feel like, but do some transit,
you know, come out of the closet. First of all,

(01:27:31):
I think you should find someone that like if because
if you're worried about like work, then you should just
find someone at work that like you're close to and
like tell them and like see how that goes, and
they're gonna be like we've been talking about it. Maybe
maybe find out like, uh, if your work has some
kind of HR policy, you find out, Yeah, if you

(01:27:53):
have some kind of like protections there.

Speaker 1 (01:27:58):
Maybe find out stuff like that you.

Speaker 3 (01:28:00):
Got a great losshit on your hands, you know. Maybe
I mean you can transition with that lawsuit.

Speaker 1 (01:28:06):
That's true.

Speaker 3 (01:28:06):
If none of this is fucking working for you, like,
maybe finds a different job. Like I'm like trying to
imagine what the job would be that I would not
like if I were maybe a cop. Okay, yeah, I
would feel weird coming out as a transfer if you're
a cop, stop listening to this show.

Speaker 2 (01:28:25):
I don't like you, Like, what's the job where I
would feel uncomfortable coming out as a trans woman.

Speaker 1 (01:28:29):
I just can't imagine like what I mean, like a
construction worker. Maybe, yeah, I.

Speaker 3 (01:28:35):
Guess like a very like a very macho environment. The
bass player in my band was a construction worker period,
serving a serving fucking cunts construction work. I know another
trans woman that does construction work, but she doesn't.

Speaker 2 (01:28:48):
Trans women do cool fucking show, but she doesn't boy
mode sheet. I'm sorry, she doesn't do it in the closet.
She she does it as a trans woman.

Speaker 3 (01:28:55):
You know, I'm genuinely like all sincerity, Like, if they're
a piece of context there that we're missing, I would
love for you to reach out to us, call us.

Speaker 1 (01:29:05):
Back, even like leave a DM on Instagram or something.

Speaker 3 (01:29:08):
I will make my due diligence to like clarify that
in some way if there's some context we're missing.

Speaker 1 (01:29:15):
Aside from that, it seems like you just have.

Speaker 3 (01:29:17):
An origin an aversion to the word boy motor and
you're using the word stealth instead, And that's making Carmen
short circuit.

Speaker 2 (01:29:27):
Well, because in my brain, you know, I'm an old
I'm a bit of an old head. Okay, I'm an.

Speaker 1 (01:29:32):
Old Harmon's fifty seven years I'm fifty.

Speaker 2 (01:29:34):
Seven years old. I've been transitioning for fifteen years. I
said fifteen years on moans earlier, but I met I've
been transitioning for fifteen years and I've been on hormones
for ten years. So I was living as a girl
for a long time before I got access to hormones,
which was very, very very difficult. And that was you know,

(01:29:55):
that was a time before boy moting was not even
like that wasn't a thing, like nobody heard of that,
you know what. Like, And I'm not saying this is
the better way, and this.

Speaker 1 (01:30:03):
Is I'm sure that some people did do it.

Speaker 2 (01:30:06):
Yeah, I'm sure people did. But like that means like
typically that means you're on hormones and that you're.

Speaker 1 (01:30:11):
But that's what this person's discussing.

Speaker 3 (01:30:13):
I know they're on hormone, they're on hormones, but they're
still identifying as a as a as a boy in
real life. I mean, baby, you have like literally two
options here and the same with a lot of questions
we get, Yeah, like you literally have just two options.
Like it's like you either come out and tell everyone
your trans and you've been taking hormones for a while
and hear my big old titties is scary, Like, there's

(01:30:36):
no fucking way around that.

Speaker 1 (01:30:38):
It's coming out as scary.

Speaker 2 (01:30:40):
Unless you just start, unless you just move somewhere else,
start over a new life with a yeah, like, which
is what people used to do back in the day.
But we don't have to do that anymore. It's twenty
twenty four. You should be able to come out in
your workplace, be a trans woman in your workplace, deal
with whatever kind of strife may come, and just know
that it's going to get better.

Speaker 3 (01:30:58):
You know, I just want to reiterate I do understand
not wanting to deal with that. I do, But it
sounds like you have already taken a lot of steps
towards like I don't know, it's it sounds like this
is kind of.

Speaker 1 (01:31:15):
The last hurdle for you.

Speaker 3 (01:31:16):
Absolutely, like you've already like done like yeah, like Carmen said,
your voice is cunty, I'm sure you look hot, Like
I'm sure Like if people have commented on you like
reverse aging, like I mean, it sounds like.

Speaker 2 (01:31:30):
A discreet way of them being like, oh, so, what's
your HRT regimen? You know, because literally no, since people
in twenty twenty four, they know what SPIRO is, they
know what estradle is. They know what they know all
this shit, you know what I mean. So they're probably
just well.

Speaker 3 (01:31:46):
I don't know if i'd give them that much credit,
but they're they're there. I think they are acutely aware
of being hyperbolic. But yees, some things like that. Yeah,
and I've been very hyperbolic. I'm sorry. I am sympathetic.
I don't mean to say that I'm unsympathetic, but as
a trans woman who you just have to understand, as
a trans woman who was a trans girl before she
got hormones, it's an experience I cannot personally relate to.

Speaker 1 (01:32:10):
But I think that too.

Speaker 3 (01:32:13):
H Yeah, I want to give you like some credit,
like like I think a lot what a thing A
lot of people don't realize about you, Carmen. Is that
like you you did like yeah, like you went through
like hell, Like you went through something that like a
lot of trans people nowadays like don't have to go through.
I don't think they should have to. They shouldn't have to.

Speaker 1 (01:32:31):
No, you're right, Yeah, you're right, you're right, You're right.

Speaker 3 (01:32:34):
So I understand the like point of yeah, I know,
I understand that you don't think that they have to
and maybe like looking at like the modern like trans
landscape and like thinking like, I don't know, like that
it would be so much easier for you if you
were like that age now exactly, you know, I mean,
instead of like the age that you were.

Speaker 1 (01:32:55):
When you when you came out exactly.

Speaker 3 (01:32:57):
And I understand having that kind of like like perspective,
and I feel like a lot of like younger trans
people might not like understand that as much. I'm sure
there's like I like, I know there's bullying, and I
know there's bitch I'm I'm a fucking bartender at like
a restaurant and I transitioned like in front of the

(01:33:18):
public in the South in Georgia, and it wasn't fucking
easy for me either. And there's like regularly times where
like I like want to like publicly kill myself at
work because I am so like upset with how I'm treated. Yeah,
and that probably is not something you want to hear. Sorry,

(01:33:42):
I just I don't. I just keep coming back to
like it seems like this is going to be like
the last hurdle for you. Yeah, And it's either you
come out or you don't. Like I don't really see
or third option u D transition.

Speaker 2 (01:33:57):
Or fourth option fourth option which I gave, which is
moved to another state, change your name, change your identity. Yeah,
you know, you're just a whole new person, which is
what they had to do back in the nineteen fifties.

Speaker 1 (01:34:09):
But we don't do that anymore.

Speaker 3 (01:34:11):
And out of these four options, none of them are
particularly easy, but I think one of them, I think
one of them makes the most sense.

Speaker 1 (01:34:20):
Yes, that has come out.

Speaker 3 (01:34:23):
That's that's probably where I would leave it. Yeah, so yeah, sorry,
we're gonna have to give you some tough love on
that one.

Speaker 1 (01:34:31):
And I'm sorry about that. But I don't know.

Speaker 3 (01:34:34):
If there's anything we're missing from this, Please send us
a DM leave another voicemail, even if you don't want
us like talk about it in public, Like I would
appreciate knowing that and just knowing that we didn't like
hurt your feelings because we are like trying to help,
Like even though this is like a funny show, like
I always have trans people on my side, Like I

(01:34:56):
don't know, I always want to be on the side
of trans people, and I do genuinely want to help
trans people.

Speaker 2 (01:35:01):
And yeah, and Janie makes me a better person for
all of those reasons. But I just want to say,
you know, I get passionate because I care, okay, and
I hear this stuff, and I get so frustrated because
I just want to be like, girl, you can fucking
do this.

Speaker 1 (01:35:19):
You know what, you can do it, You can do this. Yeah.
A lot of this tough loves.

Speaker 3 (01:35:24):
Comes from cubs, from us being like, bitch, you can
do it, even if it's tough, even if it's hard.

Speaker 1 (01:35:30):
You sound us.

Speaker 3 (01:35:32):
You have bigger tips than us.

Speaker 1 (01:35:34):
That's true. You have bigger tids than both of us together.

Speaker 3 (01:35:37):
Okay, so come on, yeah, I'm kidding. No, she did
deserve that one though. No, but we love you, and uh,
we'd love to. We'd love to, we'd love an update
on this one.

Speaker 2 (01:35:54):
So thank you, And with that we'll close out this
week's episode of Beauty Translated. And if you have any questions, comments,
or concerns, you can call us at six seven eight
five six one two seven eight five Yes, and please
leave us a rating and review over on Apple Podcasts.
We would gracial greatly appreciate it.

Speaker 1 (01:36:15):
Oh yeah, stomp out the haters over there.

Speaker 3 (01:36:17):
Dump them out, all right, bye, y'all, Stay beautiful thank goodbye,
Stay beautiful.

Speaker 2 (01:36:21):
I love you, AH, thank you for listening to Beauty Translated.
Beauty Translated is hosted by me Carmen Laurent and Jamie Danger.

Speaker 3 (01:36:31):
Produced by Kurt Aaron and Jess Krinchitch so special thanks
to Ali Perry and Ali Cancor.

Speaker 1 (01:36:39):
Our theme music is done.

Speaker 3 (01:36:40):
By Aaron Kaufman and Beauty Translated is proud to be
a part of the Outspoken network from iHeart Podcasts. For
more iHeart podcast visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or
wherever you get your podcasts.

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