August 10, 2022 • 52 mins
This week may very well be Beauty Translated's most important episode so far! My guest is the founder and president of the Trans Formations Project, Alex Petrovnia. Alex is breaking down the work the Trans Formations Project does - tracking anti-trans legislation currently sweeping the country. Listen to Alex explain the mains types of bills- and why they are not succeeding in many cases- and stay tuned at the end of the episode to learn what YOU can do to help.
This episode may be tough for some listeners, so feel free to check out some of our previous episodes for some trans joy. And please, if you need help, reach out to the Trans Lifeline at US (877) 565-8860 Canada (877) 330-6366
or the Trevor Project at 1-866-488-7386 or text ‘START’ to 678-678
For more from Carmen and Beauty Translated, visit @TheCarmenLaurent & @beautytranslatedpod!
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Content warning for everyone today. Today's episode is going to
be discussing some hard topics. There's not a lot of
trans joy in this episode, but we are talking about
some very serious legislation that is currently facing the trans community.
At the end of the episode, as well as in
the episodes description, we will have resources for the trans
(00:24):
Lifeline and the Trevor Project should you need any of
their services. The vast majority these bills are failing. Our
goal is that all of them fail. Hello and welcome
to Beauty Translated. I'm your host, Carmen Laurent. This is
(00:46):
the show all about celebrating the inner and outer beauty
within the trans community. This is probably the most important
episode Beauty Translated has created to date, and I'm very,
very proud to bring it to you today. It's going
to be a slight shift in tone from our previous episodes.
Our guest today is Alex Petrovnia with the Transformations Project.
(01:09):
He was going to tell us his story, but a
large part of what we'll be talking about today is
the work that Alex does with the Transformations Project, a
nonprofit that aims to track and educate people on the
anti trans legislation that is currently sweeping the United States,
particularly in the South, which is also where the greatest
(01:30):
concentration of transgender Americans live. So in today's episode, we're
taking a deep dive into these bills. Will be breaking
down the kinds of bills that are out there and
how they impact the lives of trans people in those areas.
Many states began their legislative sessions towards the end of
August beginning of September, so I'm asking all of my listeners,
(01:52):
especially my SIS allies, to listen up and prepare to
fight for the rights of transgender Americans. I'm here today
with Alex Petrovnia from the Transformations Project. How are you
doing today, Alex, I am doing great. It's great to
be here. Thank you so much for having me on. Yes,
we are very very excited to have you. So, Alex,
(02:14):
I just kind of want to get into who you
are and how you identify, and then we'll talk about
what the Transformations Project is. Sure, Um, I am a transman,
I am bisexual. I am in my day job, I
am a scientist. I'm an aquatic ecologist. Um, but I
(02:35):
spend a lot of my time running the Transformations Project
right now and doing a lot of different advocacy work
for the trans community. Can you tell us about how
you got involved with the Transformations Project and just tell
us kind of what that is. I am actually the
founder of the Transformations Project. I currently serve as the president.
(02:56):
It really started where I was on Twitter and I
have a fairly large presence on Twitter, and I started
hearing about these anti trans bills and noticing that people
weren't drawing attention to this UM and this was an
early like winter of one, and I started actually writing
up plain language descriptions of these bills to try to
(03:18):
emphasize to people, like what is actually going on with
these bills. And my scientific training actually helped a lot
with that, where parsing scientific literature and parsing legal literature
has a lot of overlap actually, So I would go
and read the bills and try to explain them to
people and explain the severity of these bills and the
(03:39):
situation that we were in UM. And then I started
actually tagging representatives on Twitter because one of the I
guess repercussions of the Trump era is that most politicians,
even state level politicians, have Twitter now UM, and I
was encouraging people to contact their representatives directly through Twitter
and comment there. And so I was trying to ease
(04:00):
the root of access as quickly as possible to actually
contacting your representatives making your opinion known. And as I
did that, more and more people reached out to me
and they were like, oh, wow, this is great that
you're doing. Do you need any help? And I was like, oh, absolutely,
I could do some help. There's you know, at that point,
there was dozens of these bills. Now there are hundreds, um,
(04:21):
But at that point there were dozens of these bills
and I couldn't keep up, and so I recruited some
people to help me do some research um. And eventually
someone came along and was like, well, I'm a website developer.
Would you like to potentially host this on a site?
And I was like, oh, absolutely, um. And it's kind
of just snowballed from there. So we got our site
(04:43):
up in the spring of and then we became an
official nonprofit. We are a five oh one c four
incorporated nonprofit and it's just kind of grown and snowballed
from there. And I'm really just so astounded every day
that this org has kind of materialized around me. We
have over a hundred volunteers now that do different things.
(05:07):
We're an entirely volunteer run organization. Genuinely, what we've been
able to accomplish and kind of the new projects we're
starting now, I'm so blown away. I never would have
at the beginning of this seen this coming. And I
really want to emphasize that, like, I'm the founder and
I'm the president, but it's definitely not just me. I
definitely could not have gotten to this point without so
(05:29):
many of my volunteers along the way, right, And I
know you have many member board members across the United
States as well, right. Yeah. One of the things I
really like about our organization UM is that it really
is very accessible and people can join from anywhere where,
an online based organization because we pretty much deal with
(05:50):
public data and making that data more accessible. And so
we have people all over the country. I don't know
if we have someone from every state yet. I should
find that out, but that would be very cool. Honestly,
we have international people. We have people from all over
the country. Like you said, our board is from all
(06:11):
over the country, our staff is all over the country.
We really are an effort from all over not focusing
on any specific region, but trying to provide information about
all anti trans bills in the United States, and there
are a lot popping up right now. Um, as you said, definitely,
when you started, there was only maybe a couple of
(06:34):
dozen of bills, and now there was over three hundred.
You said, is that right? Um? Almost three hundred almost
three hundred, almost three hundred have been introduced since. Wow. Yeah,
Why do you think that is? I mean, obviously a
lot happened in but why all these attacks on trans
people and especially it seems to be in the South,
(06:56):
which is a place where a lot of trans people live. Yeah. Absolutely, Um.
I think a lot of it has to do with
two different major events kind of um coming together in
the worst way. I think. The first is that conservative
consolidation of power in the state legislatures came to kind
(07:17):
of a head where there really is a lot of
state legislatures that are dominated by conservatives, often through gerrymandering
and voter suppression in particularly in the South. Those are
major issues, as I'm sure you're aware of. And the
other thing is that the GOP at large has decided
(07:38):
to make trans people one of their major issues and
has decided to really target trans people, particularly trans women,
to bolster this quote unquote culture war that they're trying
to do, where they're using trans people as a gateway
to anti LGBT policies and sentiments in general. They're trying
(08:00):
to turn back the clock to term to a time
when people were more against UM LGBT people in general,
and more against public queerness and generally just more homophobic
and bigoted right. And we've seen time and time again
that trans people are often times the scapegoat for these
(08:22):
types of things. A lot of these bills in particular
are targeting especially trans youth, UM and trans women. But lately,
I would say, like in the past few months to
like a year, a lot of them have been targeting
trans youth. Can you tell us, I mean, we backtrack
a little bit and tell us about a little bit
(08:43):
about the types of bills that we're seeing and some
of the things that we should be aware of. So
the majority of the bills do target trans youth. The
major categories that we identify in order to sort bills
and in order to categorize them on our website are
health care bills, school bills, sports bills, bathroom bills, documentation bills,
(09:05):
and then we have a miscellaneous category because not everything fits.
Probably people are familiar with a couple of categories of these,
the first major category and the one that I think
is I mean, they're all horrifying, but the one that
really concerns me is the health care bills, which are
usually bands of transition related care for individuals under eighteen
(09:27):
years old. UM. A lot of them even include banning
puberty blockers. UM. Some of them even include banning therapies
like talk therapy that may be trans supportive. Right. And
I know that your state of Missouri tried to recently
or I don't know what the status is on that,
but they're trying to ban trans health care for adults.
(09:49):
But I know that I think it was it might
have been Alabama. They wanted to ban trans health care
for people up to the age of one, not even
just eighteen. Yes, that is true. Are constantly trying to
up the up the ante, as it were, and to
increase the age because the ultimate goal is to ban
transforming healthcare in general. And it is really concerning that
(10:13):
we see things like the extra legal attacks in Florida
where they're trying where they used an extremely biased literary
review of the scientific evidence to justify attempting to remove
Medicare coverage for trans affirming healthcare for any age in Florida,
and we can see other states follow similar examples. Were
(10:34):
they successful in doing that? Um It is still being
fought out in the courts, so we do not know
yet where that will land. As with many of these things,
it is really up in the air. The Florida State
Department of Health called gender affirming medicine experimental and yes,
(10:55):
not not worth supporting basicallyaim, which is very concerning to
see for sure. One of the really important things to
note with all of these healthcare bands is that almost
all of them specifically allow quote unquote corrective intersex surgeries
for differences of sexual development, which is also a major issue,
particularly for the intersex community. Many of these healthcare bands
(11:16):
ban insurance coverage of gender firming care, and some of
those in ban insurance coverage for all ages, which we
are seeing more of. Some of them add misdemeanor or
even felony charges to attempting to pursue healthcare or administering
healthcare to youths or minors. What states are trying to
(11:37):
pass bills like those in particular, because that's especially concerning
because that means you can't get anyone to treat you
at all. So healthcare bills that have passed are the
famous one in Alabama, which are considered class cy felonies
in Alabama, which is a huge concern. And I would
also like to point out that an Alabama, the age
(12:00):
of consent sixteen, so oh yeah, which is the same
in Georgia. But you can't even consent to your own
gender affirming care. Okay, the current bill only applies up
to age eighteen, but there has been talk of increasing
that age, which is incredibly scary to think about. Oh,
it is incredibly scary. We also see medical bands in Arkansas.
(12:21):
We see a band on any surgeries for minors done
in Arizona. I just want to talk about that for
a moment, if we could. Also, you and I are
are both trans people. I don't really know of a
lot of surgeries that are being performed on children and
so and there, and really it's not happening, right, not generally, no,
(12:44):
and so it seems like a disingenuous attack to try
and ban something that's almost not even happened. It's not.
It's not happening, absolutely, and that's part of the whole
misinformation campaign that's being pushed to try to convince people
that surgeries, particularly sterilizing surgeries, are being done on minors.
(13:04):
That is one of the major lies, frankly that we
see anti trans advocates. I suppose I wouldn't call them
advocates for anything. Yeah, yeah, but that is one of
the major lives that we see because that gets a
shock value and it gets people to gasp and go
protect the children. And it also plays into we really
(13:28):
don't give children a lot of autonomy in this culture.
We treat children like property and a lot of what
we treat children like property, and so it speaks directly
to that where it allows for children to be considered
basically the property of their parents, and the idea that
they could be getting medical care that the parents don't
approve of, particularly surgical medical care, scares people. Scares people
(13:52):
that don't even that actually don't know probably a single
trans person. And the scary thing about about ling, which
like that that's surround I think youth, is their disingenuous
bills that even get other LGBT allies to say Hey,
we should be behind this because we don't want kids
(14:13):
getting XP and it's but it's not happening. It's not happening.
And also, trans affirming medical care is not experimental, right,
It's not experimental exactly. That's another another one of their
big lies that they like to push. Yeah, that it
will have catastrophic effects on the person. But I think
you and I look at bills like these and it
(14:34):
scares the both of us for the obvious reasons of
are we going to have our own gender affirming care
threatened in the future, Are we going to be able
to have access to the hormone replacement therapy that we need,
or have access to have surgeries that we want in
the future. And I think ultimately this is why trans
(14:59):
people of all ages and see this as an issue,
not just because it attacking transuth today, but they will
continue to to raise the bar and continue to escalate
that as much as they can get away with it. Absolutely,
I completely agree, and the fact that it is focused
(15:19):
on trans youth, I think trans adults really need to
step up and protect trans youth. In this case, trans
youth are an incredibly vulnerable population who have very few
advocates and I really think trans adults need to be
there to protect it, even if it is only affecting
trans youth. I think we really need to be there
(15:39):
to protect them, because no one else really is. I've
talked on this show about my own personal experience a
couple of times, but I started hormone replacement therapy when
I was eighteen years old, and for me, I felt
like it was already too late for me. If you
(16:00):
told me that I had to wait until I was
twenty one to access that hormone replacement therapy or that
I couldn't at all, I don't know if I would
even be here today. Yeah, I mean I can speak
from somebody who did wait that long. I didn't start
hormone replacement therapy until I was twenty three, and definitely
(16:20):
the I try not to think about it, honestly, because
the idea that I could have started earlier and could
have had less permanent feminizing effects on my body is
just it's devastating. Yeah. Absolutely, Do you want to discuss
a little bit of your own personal story and just
tell us why why gender affirming care has benefited you
(16:43):
positively and why we should protect it. Sure, I am
one of the trans people who really I waffled and
I was just not in a safe place to come
out until I was twenty three, but I would repeatedly
have gender crises and then forced myself back into the
closet about every six months to a year for over
(17:03):
a decade, and those this stress and the trauma of
that impacted my life severely. I went from being like
the top of my class student too barely graduating and
barely getting through undergrad just because I was closeted and
(17:25):
could barely handle functioning at all. And in a kinder world,
I would have been able to access gender affirming care
and would have been able to grow up as a
completely normal teenager and a completely normal adult young adult.
(17:47):
And that was not the case. I still deal every
day with the impacts of with the impacts of being
deprived of this care. That's a lot of what I
fight so hard for kids, for trans kids who have
(18:07):
these opportunities still, I desperately want them to be able
to pursue those opportunities. I desperately want to make the
world a safer and kinder place for them to be
able to transition safely, yes and happily. Yeah, how long
has it been since you were able to transition and
live as your authentic self. I self realized in the
(18:30):
very early spring of in like March of which was
an interesting time. I was the very beginning of UH.
We see a lot of people, I think coming out
as trans during the pandemic. I think just because the
logic that I ran into was I had another gender crisis,
(18:51):
and I decided to go for it because if the
world was ending, I was going to end it on
my terms personally. And I suspect a lot of people
had similar resolve. And it takes resolve to be able
to take that leak of leap of faith and decide
to come out and potentially to decide to pursue transition.
And so I came out and started socially transitioning in March,
(19:16):
and then I was finally able to get on HRC
in August. I was able to get TOP surgery in June,
of which I want to emphasize to people that I
am one of the best case scenarios in terms of access.
I had access to insurance, I had access to the
financial stability that allowed me to pursue hormone replacement therapy
(19:40):
and TOP surgery very quickly after I came out Compared
to many many people, Um, the world is just so
so hostile to trans people right now. And that's systemic.
That's not just socially, that's also access wise, it's medically.
That's whatever barriers says people think exists for trans people,
(20:00):
multiply it by a factor of ten. Yeah, literally every
facet of your life, legally, needing to get a job,
meaning anything you can imagine. Yeah, And you know it's
funny you say that. I actually I had several friends
come out as trans at the start of the pandemic.
I think there was a collective. I don't even think
you even had to necessarily be trans to just feel like,
(20:23):
you know what, I'm just going to do what I
need to do. I think now is the time when
people are realizing we need to pursue this now or never,
because things are really looking quite grim now. Alex is
(20:44):
going to introduce us to the three main types of
bills being proposed that target the trans community. First, our
sports bills. These are largely aimed at trans women or
trans girls, preventing us from being able to participate in sports.
So the type of bill that many people have likely
(21:04):
heard of and know about are the sports bills. The
sports bills are generally, but not always, targeted at trans women,
and particularly try to say that trans women cannot compete
in women's teams or girls teams. The majority of these
bills are targeted at very young children, which is absurd
because there's functionally no differences of sexual development between sexes
(21:30):
or genders until puberty. Yeah, there's no functional difference between
eight year olds. The really concerning thing about the sports
bills that a lot of people don't realize is that
they judge based on quote unquote biological sex. And so
I'm a biologist, biological sex doesn't actually mean anything scientifically.
(21:51):
It also doesn't mean anything legally. They've just started throwing
this term into bills with no legal basis and no
scientific bass, which is incredibly dangerous because that means that
on a lot of these bills, where how biological sex
quote unquote is not is supposed to be determined is
left blank, yeah, meaning that it's left up to individual
(22:16):
jurisdictions and schools to enforce these bills based on biological
sex without any guidance as to how to enforce that
or how to check biological sex, which means that it
leaves a huge possibility for child sexual abuse of any
(22:37):
child who is accused quote unquote of being trans. And
even more so, a lot of these bills only place
this standard on the girls team, meaning that it is
a completely unfair and unbalanced burden of proof on the
girls team only. Even if they state, oh, you have
(22:58):
to get chromosomal to sting to determine this, that is
an another cost barrier that is placed only on the
girls team, which is a direct violation of Title nine
when they don't define it as being by chromosomes, etcetera.
The easiest way to determine quote unquote biological sex in
a lot of people's minds is going to be to
just check children's genitalia. Yeah, which should horrify everyone. Genitalia
(23:25):
and biological sex don't always match either, because that can
also know they do. Not checking the fact that we're
in a place where they're determining the fact that we're
in a place where they're asking children to submit to
genital examinations to play children's sports is just that should
(23:50):
horrify everyone. Yeah, it's insane some of them define biological
sex quote unquote again based on chromosome testing, which is
expensive and requires a lot of doctors access hormone testing,
which is also expensive and requires access to medical care.
Some of them do it based on birth certificate. Which
(24:11):
of the potential options is the least horrifying are Some
of them go a combination of those, But the ones
that are really dangerous are the ones that just don't
define how biological sex is to be determined at all,
which is a great number of them. Can you just
talk a little bit more about chromosomal testing. I mean
we're talking about of course xx x Y and then
(24:35):
other variations of that, right which I mean they're assuming
it's going to be one of the two, but surprised
when people get chromosoonal tests that it doesn't always turn
up that way. Yes, a lot more people are some
format of intersex than they realize, because there are plenty
of intersex people who appear to be para SX upon
external examination, and so the chromosomal testing. Really the major
(25:01):
issue with that is that that means that any child
who doesn't have access to medical care can no longer
participate in sports. It also, again places this burden in
a lot of these bills, not all of them, but
a lot of these bills it places that burden only
on girls teams, which should upset people just in terms
of basic feminism. I mean, all of these bills should
(25:25):
upset people in terms of basic feminism, but many people
don't think them through all the way. So with the
boys teams, they're not doing any chromosome all testing. Some
of the bills require all some of the bills require
that all people who are suspected of being transgender submit
to being tested for quote unquote biological sex. Some of
(25:45):
them only stay the girls teams, and the ones that
only state the girls teams, yes, there is no requirement,
meaning that trans men would still be allowed to participate
on men's teams under those bills. It's just really interesting
because it shows that they're really not thinking these issues
through and they really don't care about fairness. They're really
(26:08):
just trying to bully trans girls well and trying Yeah,
it's it's trans misogyny absolutely. Next or healthcare bills, they
attempt to limit or to ban access to gender affirming care.
So that is the rhetoric that I was trying to
get out there was it is often put on trans girls,
(26:31):
trans women, as the target of of these bills, and
it's often said, well, we're just trying to protect girls
and women's sports. We're just trying to protect girls, and
blah blah blah blah blah. I mean, that'she we hear
over and over again. That is the rhetoric we hear
over and over. And it's really interesting because the sports
bills largely target trans women. The healthcare bills, although they
(26:56):
target both trans women and trans men and non binary people,
the rhetoric aligned with them is usually about transmasculine which
we see white transmasculine people are usually considered to be
like helpless girls who can't make their own decisions, which
just comes down to misogyny. But we see that rhetoric
(27:17):
definitely as well, sort of in the same vein as
reproductive rights. It's treated as well, there's somebody who is
a woman who's and I'm saying that obviously with the
rhetoric that that's having their uterus removed or having there,
and it's once again to reinforce that if you have
a uterus, only supposed to give birth right. Yeah, it
definitely comes down to that. The racial aspect of this
(27:40):
can also not be ignored these kinds of forced birth,
and the panic that birth rates are going down is
very much tied to white replacement theory, which is white
supremacist rhetoric. And you see that very much echoed in
all of a lot of these trans issues because they're
(28:02):
generally only worried about white trans masks. You see this
a lot in fame. One of the famous examples I
like to point to is Abigail Schreyer's Irreparable Damage, which
I have to just sigh at because I just can't.
Her arguments are basically that young, overwhelmingly white trans masks
(28:23):
are overwhelming white. In her rhetoric, trans masks are sterilizing themselves,
and I really think it's just important to draw those
connections as well. Yeah, yeah, I just had to look
that up because I had not heard of that. So,
at the risk of being slightly off topic, I am
a transplant. I talk a lot about trans masculine terature
(28:45):
and trans masculine infantilization, and Abigail Schreier is really one
of the main pundits pushing that side of transphobia, right,
which is funny because you I mean not funny, not funny,
but it's odd because for such a long time we
have seen a lot of turf ideas really targeted at
(29:07):
trans women specifically, and that's really scary like rhetoric for sure,
and it is all tied into that white supremacy, that
white replacement theory that if you turn on Fox News,
all the opinion people are just talking about it all
day long, basically, and they're not really that secretive about it,
I think because they are oftentimes not explicitly using the
(29:30):
language that we associate with like bigotry or hate or whatever.
They'll use more dog whistles and things like that. It's
much harder for people to identify when somebody is being
just flat out yeah. And that is the function of
what a dog whistle is is to be able to
alert people who are already in the in group of
(29:53):
conspiracy theories and hatred, to alert them that this is
what we're talking about without seeming hateful to bystanders. Next,
our curriculum or schooling bills, these attempts to ban discussions
of gender identity in the classroom. If we don't talk
about it, it will just go away, type of logic.
News flash, we don't go away. So the next category
(30:17):
is curriculum or schooling bills. So the majority of sports
bills are based on schools. But these are bills that
are not sports bills but related to schools. These are
the famous don't say Gay bills, which, if you actually
read the text of the bills, the vast majority of
the don't say Gay bills are actually more focused on
don't say trans. They have a lot more to say
(30:38):
about discussing gender in schools, and they have a lot
to say about discussing sexuality in schools as well. But
the fact that the mainstream reporting of this has completely
ignored the trans aspect of them is really concerning to me. Yeah,
that was also concerning to me, And I also saw
(30:58):
with those bills in particular, I saw a lot of
people arguing, if you read the bill, it doesn't even
say game. But that's besides the point. And I'm not
saying that's what you're saying. I'm saying, Yeah, a lot
of these bills also ban education on diversity, inclusion and
critical race theory, again tying into that, the anti trands
(31:19):
movement is very deeply tied with the white supremacist movement,
and we're seeing that play out in this legislation. A
lot of these bills require parental permission before teaching about
any of these topics. A lot of them require that
parents be allowed to remove their students from any activity
that the parents don't agree with. A lot of these
bills also have forced outing or miss gendering clauses, which
(31:42):
would force staff to out children to their guardians no
matter the circumstances, functionally to use mandated reporter functions to
report to parents about if a child is questioning their
gender or sexuality, usually their gender in these bills, Yeah,
can we just talk about to just the harm in
(32:03):
that and that's going to kill children and that that
is the point blank. Yeah, and that's the ultimate goal.
The goal is to kill off or closet transgender children
whatever makes them untrans Yeah, by what went over cost. Yeah,
(32:24):
we're seeing this a lot in a war of attrition
in terms of taking away healthcare, in terms of taking
away safe spaces for people to even be themselves, in
terms of trying to take away social transition opportunities. And
we're seeing this have an effect. There was this really
incredible study done by the Trevor Project that showed that
states that are considering more anti trans legislation actually have
(32:48):
notable increased calls to the Trevor Projects suicide hotlines and
can you tell us our listeners just what the Trevor
Project is, what it does, why it's so important. The
Trevor Project is a wonderful nonprofit that focuses on reducing
suicidality among LGBT youth. They run a crisis hotline that
(33:10):
allows youth to call if they are in crisis, a
suicide hotline for trans youth, trans youth, and queer youth
in general. It's really scary that we're seeing that these
bills are not only threatening the future of trans kids,
but also threatening their lives as well and their mental absolutely.
(33:31):
The next one is bathroom bills, which people are largely
familiar with due to the famous North Carolina example in
that was defeated, but bathroom bills are coming back. Basically,
they say that bathroom designation should be dependent on again,
biological sex. A lot of them do not clarify how
biological sex is to be determined. They also often ban
(33:53):
multiperson gender neutral restrooms. All multiperson bathrooms must be designated
male or female, and they sometimes even pan use of
single occupancy restrooms by trans individuals. So it really is
less of an issue. They tried to say it's a
privacy issue, they tried to say it's a comfort issue.
It really is about making it much more difficult for
(34:14):
trans people to exist in public. Yeah, and always and
and all of these bills. That's the ultimate goal. Absolutely,
it's it's eliminationist. It's fascism. Absolutely. All the people saying
fascism is rising, fascism is here, um and the sooner
people realize that, the better. And we can also see
(34:38):
that the trans community is being particularly targeted right now,
but even before that, people of color have been targeted
by the very fascist institutions of this country. These issues
are rising, and if you're only aware of them now,
it's only because you've been privileged enough to be unaware
of them up until this point. These generally take a
(35:02):
couple of forms. Usually, they ban editing of birth certificates
for gender identity. They say that there was only birth
certificates are only editable if there was a clerical error,
or sometimes not until age eighteen, or sometimes they require
a core order signifying that how somebody has had surgery
to change their sex. Quote unquote before allowing birth certificates
(35:23):
to be edited. They often ban gender markers such as
X or non binary or into sex gender markers. There
was a few bills making name changes impossible or extremely
difficult for incarcerated persons. Generally, the idea is to raise
the cost both in time and in money of transitioning legally,
(35:47):
making it as as inaccessible and as complicated as you
possibly can. That's not all. Unfortunately, alex has a couple
of miscellaneous bills to go over as well. These are
really concerned bills. I know, because they're in a miscellaneous
category that they're easy to ignore, but a lot of
them either give legal protection or rollback laws banning conversion therapy.
(36:10):
And this is not only for trans children, but conversion
therapy in general. We've seen bills like that introduced in Indiana, Iowa,
New Hampshire, and South Carolina. We see bills considered that
would ban use of public funds on any organization that
provides transforming care to minors in any capacity, dramatically limiting
(36:31):
the work that many nonprofits and charities provide. We've seen
a lot of religious freedom bills that are basically freedom
to discriminate bills basically saying you can discriminate against trans
or queer people if you have a sincerely held belief
that what they're doing is immoral in your religion. These
are often being bundled with abortion clauses, which is important
(36:51):
to note that the abortion rights issues and trans rates
issues are deeply, deeply intertwined. Yeah, so, do you want
to talk a little bit more about that, Yeah? Absolutely so.
The first issue is that plenty of trans people, plenty
of non binary people do require access to abortion. We
know statistically that trans people and non binary people already
(37:16):
have disproportionately difficult access to abortion and other reproductive care,
so that in they are more likely statistically to have
adverse outcomes. We're already seeing that. Additionally to that, trans
people are more than twice as likely to live in
poverty ass as people. So these are all factors that
exacerbate the issues around abortion access for trans folks. But
(37:41):
even more so than that, it really comes down to
an issue of bodily autonomy. Bodily autonomy, for those who
are not aware, is the idea that people can make
their own decisions regarding their body, even if others disapprove
of those decisions, and so bodily autonomy absolutely covers things
like gender firming care or transition. It also includes things
like abortion or elective surgeries or basically, bodily autonomy is
(38:05):
a huge tenant upon which feminism is founded. The idea
that people can make educated and informed choices about their
own bodies and what to do with them is critically important,
and without it there can be no there there can
be no feminism. Frankly, and the people who don't realize
that trans people are functionally just fighting for bodily autonomy
(38:28):
as well as legal recognition and societal respect and some
other issues as well, But fundamentally the issues of medical
transition comes down to bodily autonomy. So, I mean, all
of these things are obviously very upsetting. I mean, it's
it's not looking fabulous for us. But but it's not
(38:50):
too late either, Alex you told me that some of these,
not all of them, but some of our the legislative
sessions are coming up in August or in the fall
rather September around there. What can people do who are listening,
What can people do to help and get involved? Sure, So,
(39:12):
one thing I want to emphasize is that the vast
majority of the bills that have been introduced have failed,
even though some of them have passed, and every bill
that passes is a tragedy, we need to keep in
mind that every bill that fails is a victory as
well for the trans community. Probably one of my favorite
examples is Texas actually called a special session, meaning that
(39:33):
they had an entire legislative session in one dedicated to
anti trans bills. They tried to pass thirty two different
anti trans bills, and of all thirty two introduced in
that special session, only one sports bill passed because all
of the rest of them were defeated. These bills are
not popular, they are not wanted by constituents, and it's
(39:56):
really important to emphasize that this is being pushed by
a few loud people and that these are not representative
of what people actually want. We can also point to
in response to the anti trans legislative crisis, there has
been a coalition of senators and House representatives from nineteen
(40:17):
different states who are planning to propose trans positive bills,
specifically trans protections in their state and also actually trans
refugee protections in their states. So people fleeing from states
that have basically declared war on trans people. Connecticut has
passed their bill regarding this. New York is fairly close
(40:37):
to passing their bill. From what I understand, California is
considering one, Minnesota is considering one. So there is action
happening and there is positivity happening. We're we're in a
tough spot for sure, and I want to emphasize that
we need people to act. Now. This is not going
to go away if you ignore it. But when people
(41:00):
don't ignore it, and when people actually, as our slogan says,
step up for trans kids, we can make this change
and we can protect trans kids. And we are seeing
that happen. The vast majority these bills are failing. Our
goal is that all of them fail. In terms of
what you can do, this is the point where I
plug my organization. So the Transformations Project, which can be
(41:20):
found at transformations project dot org, we compile a ton
of information about these bills for you. We explain what
the bills do in plain language. We tell you all
of the sponsors of those bills. We tell you which
representatives to contact to try to simplify the legislative process
because we know it is obtuse to say the least,
and one of the first things you can do is
(41:42):
to go onto our website and find your representatives and
contact them and tell them you do not want these
anti transit bills. We need to remind legislators, particularly state
legislators who have a much smaller pool of people to
draw from, that we do elect them, and that the
people do have power over what they choose to sponsor
(42:05):
and what they choose to forward. These bills are overwhelmingly
not that just bad for trans people, but they have many,
many repercussions for sist people as well. Everyone should care
about these bills. I also definitely encourage people. We are
at a point where I encourage people to organize on
their own. I encourage people to try to set up
(42:27):
community defense networks and to take steps for their own
safety in rising anti trans violence. I encourage people to protest.
I encourage people to do the bare minimum of living
in a democracy and vote in all your elections, including
your local elections. If anybody is interested in helping with
the Transformations Project, we are always taking volunteers. You can
(42:49):
find a way to volunteer with us on our website.
Those I suppose are the major things. It's great to
hear that the majority of these bills do not pass,
but I think that they will serve the purpose of
absolutely their intimidation. I think they serve the purpose of
intimidating but also giving license to other people to hate. Well,
(43:15):
they're trying to pass laws, so I should be able
to hate a trans person too. It's crazy. A lot
of it is part of the quote unquote culture war,
where they're trying to turn a lot of the public
against trans people, and they're also trying to embolden people
who already were bigoted against trans people. And unfortunately and tragically,
(43:37):
we are seeing that strategy work. We are seeing rising
hate crimes against trans folks. We are seeing previously supportive
people unfortunately not back up their support nearly as much.
And it really is the time that we desperately, desperately
need allies to step up because trans people are a
very small proportion of the population. Just statistically, we are
(44:00):
a very small community, and we are a very disadvantaged community,
and they love to remind us of that too while
they're taking away our rights. Trans people are an incredibly
discriminated against community in every aspect of life, and we
really need allies to be allies and not just tweet hashtags,
and not just not just show up to protests, but
(44:22):
to show up for trans people in person and materially
particularly marginal multiply marginalized trance people such as disabled trance
people or trans people of color. Particularly. Every trans person
that you know probably knows about these bills, but we
need more SIS people to speak out on these things. LGB, LGBT,
(44:44):
LGB sis people, straight sis people, everybody needs to care
about this kind of stuff because I think one of
the ways that a lot of people don't think about
how this affects this people. Well, think about in a
situation where a bathroom bill passes and they say that
you can only use the bathroom of your biological sex. Well,
let's say that you're a Cish gender woman, but somebody
(45:06):
thanks that you don't look like a Cist gender woman,
and that gives them the license to harass you or
accuse you of being a man or whatever. And that's
just one example, and it's happened. Happened. We've seen not
only harassment but open assaults of people who have been
falsely assumed to be trans. And this is really where
(45:26):
it comes back into bodily autonomy and feminism at large
is once you start policing who belongs to a gender category,
Once you make that basically up to the anybody, any
human being can point at you and say I don't
think you look enough like a woman. That is incredibly
dangerous for SIS people as well. Absolutely, just as you said, well, Alex,
(45:50):
to ask ask you something a little more positive and
all of this, I want to know for me. This
is something I'm trying to ask all my guests, but
I want to know from me you, why do you
think trans is beautiful? Why do you think being trans
is beautiful? Oh? I love that question, Thank you so much.
I think being trans is absolutely beautiful. I think it
(46:10):
is one of the most radical actions of self love
that human beings can take. And I try to emphasize
this a lot in my advocacy that through it all,
through all of the oppression that we face, it really
is radical self love and self acceptance. And I have
(46:31):
never loved myself more. I have never been more secure
in myself then I have been since coming out and
since pursuing transition. And that's something that I want other
people to have because it is an incredibly beautiful thing.
It is an incredibly empowering thing. It changes your life
for the better, It absolutely does, absolutely and I and
(46:54):
that's exactly why we're protecting this right. We're protecting this
not only because transis beauty of full but also because
trans people are human beings who deserve to be protected. Absolutely. Yeah.
Well yeah, we're absolutely trying to protect people's access to
to that freedom of feeling, how however makes them happiest. Well, Alex,
(47:16):
before we wrap up, I just want to ask can
you share your socials and how people can find Transformations
Project again? Sure, my socials are I pretty much am
just on Twitter. We'll never see each other then, only
on Instagram. Yeah, I don't take it off pictures, but
I work from home. I don't get a lot of
(47:36):
like scenery. Uh, I'm on Twitter. You can find me
at Alex Petrovnia. That is p E t R O
v n I A. You can find the Transformations Project
at Transformations Project dot org. Or we are on Instagram.
We are on Instagram, we are on Twitter, We're on TikTok,
(47:57):
we are on Facebook, We're on LinkedIn, even and discord
right and we are on discord We organize our volunteers
through discord, but anyone is welcome to join our Discord server.
We can be found usually at the hashtag step up
for transum, but also all of our social links are
accessible through our website in the footer, and we give
(48:19):
updates regularly when the legislative sessions are active. We actually
give a update every weekday of all the movement of
bills and calls to action around those bills. So if
you are seeking to be an informed person, you should
absolutely follow us on our socials and try to learn
more about the crisis going on. And this also especially
(48:43):
if you are SIS, because we especially need your help
and this affects you to absolutely. Before we end today's episode,
Alex will be sharing a quote from a trans youth
who he mentors at the Sam and Devora Foundation, who
is speaking on how the recent anti trans legislation has
been making them feel. As a way to kind of
(49:05):
put today's episode in perspective for you, this is a
quote from r and they say, and I quote. With
the laws put in place this and last year, they
have definitely made an impact on me, my family and friends.
With most of my friends being miners, we have to
face the reality that we won't be able to exist
in some places without the genuine threat of the law
(49:25):
taking us away from our families, stripping off us of
our care, using us as fuel for that hateful tirade.
My family, for the first time, really had to think
about this as well. We as trans people are the
first to know risks. Our community is dedicated to our safety,
but our sister gender familia is not so lucky. My
own mother started to tear up as she heard that
I could be killed if I traveled certain places. This
(49:48):
was after months of her dismissing everything I've been concerned with,
from this to Roe v Wade, all from a good place,
but dismissing nonetheless. With the hyper visibility of trans people
at the moment, we're all aware of the uptick of
trying centered violence. My own community is no stranger to this,
and for the first time, I felt genuine fear in
the Month of Pride to wear a simple transpread shirt.
(50:08):
It's nothing a child should ever experience, but with the
politicization of trans experience, I can't even count on all
my teachers for safety because it's their opinion. And before
we go, I would also like to share some resources.
If you are in need of help or in need
of someone to talk to about what you're going through,
you can call the trans Lifeline at eight seven seven
(50:32):
five six five eight eight six zero, and you can
also contact the Trevor Project at one eight six six
eight seven three eight six. The Trevor Project also allows
you to text with their number six seven eight dash
(50:53):
six seven eight. And that is all we have for
today's episode. I'm certainly glad to hear that even though
these bills are popping up all over the place, like
Alex said, they're largely unwanted by the majority of Americans
and they aren't succeeding. With all that in mind, we
still need to stay informed and let these lawmakers know
(51:16):
they're not helping anyone. Please check out the Transformations Project
for information on how to volunteer or to donate, and
let me know over on the Beauty Translated Instagram at
Beauty Translated Pod. What was your favorite part of today's episode?
And please, if you haven't already leave the podcasts are
waiting or review on Apple Podcasts. It means the world
(51:38):
to me and to those that have already. Thank you
so much. Next week, I'm sitting down with one of
my trans children. Stay tuned for more Beauty Translated, and
stay beautiful y'all. The show is an association with the
I Heart Next Up program co founded by on a
Hoss name Joel Money and the Sena Media. Beauty Translated
(52:01):
is sound designed by Jessica Cranchit and produced by Kurt
Karen and Ali Perry, and our theme song was composed
by Aaron Kaufman. For more podcasts from iHeart, visit the
i Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get
your favorite shows.
Content warning for everyone today. Today's episode is going to
be discussing some hard topics. There's not a lot of
trans joy in this episode, but we are talking about
some very serious legislation that is currently facing the trans community.
At the end of the episode, as well as in
the episodes description, we will have resources for the trans
(00:24):
Lifeline and the Trevor Project should you need any of
their services. The vast majority these bills are failing. Our
goal is that all of them fail. Hello and welcome
to Beauty Translated. I'm your host, Carmen Laurent. This is
(00:46):
the show all about celebrating the inner and outer beauty
within the trans community. This is probably the most important
episode Beauty Translated has created to date, and I'm very,
very proud to bring it to you today. It's going
to be a slight shift in tone from our previous episodes.
Our guest today is Alex Petrovnia with the Transformations Project.
(01:09):
He was going to tell us his story, but a
large part of what we'll be talking about today is
the work that Alex does with the Transformations Project, a
nonprofit that aims to track and educate people on the
anti trans legislation that is currently sweeping the United States,
particularly in the South, which is also where the greatest
(01:30):
concentration of transgender Americans live. So in today's episode, we're
taking a deep dive into these bills. Will be breaking
down the kinds of bills that are out there and
how they impact the lives of trans people in those areas.
Many states began their legislative sessions towards the end of
August beginning of September, so I'm asking all of my listeners,
(01:52):
especially my SIS allies, to listen up and prepare to
fight for the rights of transgender Americans. I'm here today
with Alex Petrovnia from the Transformations Project. How are you
doing today, Alex, I am doing great. It's great to
be here. Thank you so much for having me on. Yes,
we are very very excited to have you. So, Alex,
(02:14):
I just kind of want to get into who you
are and how you identify, and then we'll talk about
what the Transformations Project is. Sure, Um, I am a transman,
I am bisexual. I am in my day job, I
am a scientist. I'm an aquatic ecologist. Um, but I
(02:35):
spend a lot of my time running the Transformations Project
right now and doing a lot of different advocacy work
for the trans community. Can you tell us about how
you got involved with the Transformations Project and just tell
us kind of what that is. I am actually the
founder of the Transformations Project. I currently serve as the president.
(02:56):
It really started where I was on Twitter and I
have a fairly large presence on Twitter, and I started
hearing about these anti trans bills and noticing that people
weren't drawing attention to this UM and this was an
early like winter of one, and I started actually writing
up plain language descriptions of these bills to try to
(03:18):
emphasize to people, like what is actually going on with
these bills. And my scientific training actually helped a lot
with that, where parsing scientific literature and parsing legal literature
has a lot of overlap actually, So I would go
and read the bills and try to explain them to
people and explain the severity of these bills and the
(03:39):
situation that we were in UM. And then I started
actually tagging representatives on Twitter because one of the I
guess repercussions of the Trump era is that most politicians,
even state level politicians, have Twitter now UM, and I
was encouraging people to contact their representatives directly through Twitter
and comment there. And so I was trying to ease
(04:00):
the root of access as quickly as possible to actually
contacting your representatives making your opinion known. And as I
did that, more and more people reached out to me
and they were like, oh, wow, this is great that
you're doing. Do you need any help? And I was like, oh, absolutely,
I could do some help. There's you know, at that point,
there was dozens of these bills. Now there are hundreds, um,
(04:21):
But at that point there were dozens of these bills
and I couldn't keep up, and so I recruited some
people to help me do some research um. And eventually
someone came along and was like, well, I'm a website developer.
Would you like to potentially host this on a site?
And I was like, oh, absolutely, um. And it's kind
of just snowballed from there. So we got our site
(04:43):
up in the spring of and then we became an
official nonprofit. We are a five oh one c four
incorporated nonprofit and it's just kind of grown and snowballed
from there. And I'm really just so astounded every day
that this org has kind of materialized around me. We
have over a hundred volunteers now that do different things.
(05:07):
We're an entirely volunteer run organization. Genuinely, what we've been
able to accomplish and kind of the new projects we're
starting now, I'm so blown away. I never would have
at the beginning of this seen this coming. And I
really want to emphasize that, like, I'm the founder and
I'm the president, but it's definitely not just me. I
definitely could not have gotten to this point without so
(05:29):
many of my volunteers along the way, right, And I
know you have many member board members across the United
States as well, right. Yeah. One of the things I
really like about our organization UM is that it really
is very accessible and people can join from anywhere where,
an online based organization because we pretty much deal with
(05:50):
public data and making that data more accessible. And so
we have people all over the country. I don't know
if we have someone from every state yet. I should
find that out, but that would be very cool. Honestly,
we have international people. We have people from all over
the country. Like you said, our board is from all
(06:11):
over the country, our staff is all over the country.
We really are an effort from all over not focusing
on any specific region, but trying to provide information about
all anti trans bills in the United States, and there
are a lot popping up right now. Um, as you said, definitely,
when you started, there was only maybe a couple of
(06:34):
dozen of bills, and now there was over three hundred.
You said, is that right? Um? Almost three hundred almost
three hundred, almost three hundred have been introduced since. Wow. Yeah,
Why do you think that is? I mean, obviously a
lot happened in but why all these attacks on trans
people and especially it seems to be in the South,
(06:56):
which is a place where a lot of trans people live. Yeah. Absolutely, Um.
I think a lot of it has to do with
two different major events kind of um coming together in
the worst way. I think. The first is that conservative
consolidation of power in the state legislatures came to kind
(07:17):
of a head where there really is a lot of
state legislatures that are dominated by conservatives, often through gerrymandering
and voter suppression in particularly in the South. Those are
major issues, as I'm sure you're aware of. And the
other thing is that the GOP at large has decided
(07:38):
to make trans people one of their major issues and
has decided to really target trans people, particularly trans women,
to bolster this quote unquote culture war that they're trying
to do, where they're using trans people as a gateway
to anti LGBT policies and sentiments in general. They're trying
(08:00):
to turn back the clock to term to a time
when people were more against UM LGBT people in general,
and more against public queerness and generally just more homophobic
and bigoted right. And we've seen time and time again
that trans people are often times the scapegoat for these
(08:22):
types of things. A lot of these bills in particular
are targeting especially trans youth, UM and trans women. But lately,
I would say, like in the past few months to
like a year, a lot of them have been targeting
trans youth. Can you tell us, I mean, we backtrack
a little bit and tell us about a little bit
(08:43):
about the types of bills that we're seeing and some
of the things that we should be aware of. So
the majority of the bills do target trans youth. The
major categories that we identify in order to sort bills
and in order to categorize them on our website are
health care bills, school bills, sports bills, bathroom bills, documentation bills,
(09:05):
and then we have a miscellaneous category because not everything fits.
Probably people are familiar with a couple of categories of these,
the first major category and the one that I think
is I mean, they're all horrifying, but the one that
really concerns me is the health care bills, which are
usually bands of transition related care for individuals under eighteen
(09:27):
years old. UM. A lot of them even include banning
puberty blockers. UM. Some of them even include banning therapies
like talk therapy that may be trans supportive. Right. And
I know that your state of Missouri tried to recently
or I don't know what the status is on that,
but they're trying to ban trans health care for adults.
(09:49):
But I know that I think it was it might
have been Alabama. They wanted to ban trans health care
for people up to the age of one, not even
just eighteen. Yes, that is true. Are constantly trying to
up the up the ante, as it were, and to
increase the age because the ultimate goal is to ban
transforming healthcare in general. And it is really concerning that
(10:13):
we see things like the extra legal attacks in Florida
where they're trying where they used an extremely biased literary
review of the scientific evidence to justify attempting to remove
Medicare coverage for trans affirming healthcare for any age in Florida,
and we can see other states follow similar examples. Were
(10:34):
they successful in doing that? Um It is still being
fought out in the courts, so we do not know
yet where that will land. As with many of these things,
it is really up in the air. The Florida State
Department of Health called gender affirming medicine experimental and yes,
(10:55):
not not worth supporting basicallyaim, which is very concerning to
see for sure. One of the really important things to
note with all of these healthcare bands is that almost
all of them specifically allow quote unquote corrective intersex surgeries
for differences of sexual development, which is also a major issue,
particularly for the intersex community. Many of these healthcare bands
(11:16):
ban insurance coverage of gender firming care, and some of
those in ban insurance coverage for all ages, which we
are seeing more of. Some of them add misdemeanor or
even felony charges to attempting to pursue healthcare or administering
healthcare to youths or minors. What states are trying to
(11:37):
pass bills like those in particular, because that's especially concerning
because that means you can't get anyone to treat you
at all. So healthcare bills that have passed are the
famous one in Alabama, which are considered class cy felonies
in Alabama, which is a huge concern. And I would
also like to point out that an Alabama, the age
(12:00):
of consent sixteen, so oh yeah, which is the same
in Georgia. But you can't even consent to your own
gender affirming care. Okay, the current bill only applies up
to age eighteen, but there has been talk of increasing
that age, which is incredibly scary to think about. Oh,
it is incredibly scary. We also see medical bands in Arkansas.
(12:21):
We see a band on any surgeries for minors done
in Arizona. I just want to talk about that for
a moment, if we could. Also, you and I are
are both trans people. I don't really know of a
lot of surgeries that are being performed on children and
so and there, and really it's not happening, right, not generally, no,
(12:44):
and so it seems like a disingenuous attack to try
and ban something that's almost not even happened. It's not.
It's not happening, absolutely, and that's part of the whole
misinformation campaign that's being pushed to try to convince people
that surgeries, particularly sterilizing surgeries, are being done on minors.
(13:04):
That is one of the major lies, frankly that we
see anti trans advocates. I suppose I wouldn't call them
advocates for anything. Yeah, yeah, but that is one of
the major lives that we see because that gets a
shock value and it gets people to gasp and go
protect the children. And it also plays into we really
(13:28):
don't give children a lot of autonomy in this culture.
We treat children like property and a lot of what
we treat children like property, and so it speaks directly
to that where it allows for children to be considered
basically the property of their parents, and the idea that
they could be getting medical care that the parents don't
approve of, particularly surgical medical care, scares people. Scares people
(13:52):
that don't even that actually don't know probably a single
trans person. And the scary thing about about ling, which
like that that's surround I think youth, is their disingenuous
bills that even get other LGBT allies to say Hey,
we should be behind this because we don't want kids
(14:13):
getting XP and it's but it's not happening. It's not happening.
And also, trans affirming medical care is not experimental, right,
It's not experimental exactly. That's another another one of their
big lies that they like to push. Yeah, that it
will have catastrophic effects on the person. But I think
you and I look at bills like these and it
(14:34):
scares the both of us for the obvious reasons of
are we going to have our own gender affirming care
threatened in the future, Are we going to be able
to have access to the hormone replacement therapy that we need,
or have access to have surgeries that we want in
the future. And I think ultimately this is why trans
(14:59):
people of all ages and see this as an issue,
not just because it attacking transuth today, but they will
continue to to raise the bar and continue to escalate
that as much as they can get away with it. Absolutely,
I completely agree, and the fact that it is focused
(15:19):
on trans youth, I think trans adults really need to
step up and protect trans youth. In this case, trans
youth are an incredibly vulnerable population who have very few
advocates and I really think trans adults need to be
there to protect it, even if it is only affecting
trans youth. I think we really need to be there
(15:39):
to protect them, because no one else really is. I've
talked on this show about my own personal experience a
couple of times, but I started hormone replacement therapy when
I was eighteen years old, and for me, I felt
like it was already too late for me. If you
(16:00):
told me that I had to wait until I was
twenty one to access that hormone replacement therapy or that
I couldn't at all, I don't know if I would
even be here today. Yeah, I mean I can speak
from somebody who did wait that long. I didn't start
hormone replacement therapy until I was twenty three, and definitely
(16:20):
the I try not to think about it, honestly, because
the idea that I could have started earlier and could
have had less permanent feminizing effects on my body is
just it's devastating. Yeah. Absolutely, Do you want to discuss
a little bit of your own personal story and just
tell us why why gender affirming care has benefited you
(16:43):
positively and why we should protect it. Sure, I am
one of the trans people who really I waffled and
I was just not in a safe place to come
out until I was twenty three, but I would repeatedly
have gender crises and then forced myself back into the
closet about every six months to a year for over
(17:03):
a decade, and those this stress and the trauma of
that impacted my life severely. I went from being like
the top of my class student too barely graduating and
barely getting through undergrad just because I was closeted and
(17:25):
could barely handle functioning at all. And in a kinder world,
I would have been able to access gender affirming care
and would have been able to grow up as a
completely normal teenager and a completely normal adult young adult.
(17:47):
And that was not the case. I still deal every
day with the impacts of with the impacts of being
deprived of this care. That's a lot of what I
fight so hard for kids, for trans kids who have
(18:07):
these opportunities still, I desperately want them to be able
to pursue those opportunities. I desperately want to make the
world a safer and kinder place for them to be
able to transition safely, yes and happily. Yeah, how long
has it been since you were able to transition and
live as your authentic self. I self realized in the
(18:30):
very early spring of in like March of which was
an interesting time. I was the very beginning of UH.
We see a lot of people, I think coming out
as trans during the pandemic. I think just because the
logic that I ran into was I had another gender crisis,
(18:51):
and I decided to go for it because if the
world was ending, I was going to end it on
my terms personally. And I suspect a lot of people
had similar resolve. And it takes resolve to be able
to take that leak of leap of faith and decide
to come out and potentially to decide to pursue transition.
And so I came out and started socially transitioning in March,
(19:16):
and then I was finally able to get on HRC
in August. I was able to get TOP surgery in June,
of which I want to emphasize to people that I
am one of the best case scenarios in terms of access.
I had access to insurance, I had access to the
financial stability that allowed me to pursue hormone replacement therapy
(19:40):
and TOP surgery very quickly after I came out Compared
to many many people, Um, the world is just so
so hostile to trans people right now. And that's systemic.
That's not just socially, that's also access wise, it's medically.
That's whatever barriers says people think exists for trans people,
(20:00):
multiply it by a factor of ten. Yeah, literally every
facet of your life, legally, needing to get a job,
meaning anything you can imagine. Yeah, And you know it's
funny you say that. I actually I had several friends
come out as trans at the start of the pandemic.
I think there was a collective. I don't even think
you even had to necessarily be trans to just feel like,
(20:23):
you know what, I'm just going to do what I
need to do. I think now is the time when
people are realizing we need to pursue this now or never,
because things are really looking quite grim now. Alex is
(20:44):
going to introduce us to the three main types of
bills being proposed that target the trans community. First, our
sports bills. These are largely aimed at trans women or
trans girls, preventing us from being able to participate in sports.
So the type of bill that many people have likely
(21:04):
heard of and know about are the sports bills. The
sports bills are generally, but not always, targeted at trans women,
and particularly try to say that trans women cannot compete
in women's teams or girls teams. The majority of these
bills are targeted at very young children, which is absurd
because there's functionally no differences of sexual development between sexes
(21:30):
or genders until puberty. Yeah, there's no functional difference between
eight year olds. The really concerning thing about the sports
bills that a lot of people don't realize is that
they judge based on quote unquote biological sex. And so
I'm a biologist, biological sex doesn't actually mean anything scientifically.
(21:51):
It also doesn't mean anything legally. They've just started throwing
this term into bills with no legal basis and no
scientific bass, which is incredibly dangerous because that means that
on a lot of these bills, where how biological sex
quote unquote is not is supposed to be determined is
left blank, yeah, meaning that it's left up to individual
(22:16):
jurisdictions and schools to enforce these bills based on biological
sex without any guidance as to how to enforce that
or how to check biological sex, which means that it
leaves a huge possibility for child sexual abuse of any
(22:37):
child who is accused quote unquote of being trans. And
even more so, a lot of these bills only place
this standard on the girls team, meaning that it is
a completely unfair and unbalanced burden of proof on the
girls team only. Even if they state, oh, you have
(22:58):
to get chromosomal to sting to determine this, that is
an another cost barrier that is placed only on the
girls team, which is a direct violation of Title nine
when they don't define it as being by chromosomes, etcetera.
The easiest way to determine quote unquote biological sex in
a lot of people's minds is going to be to
just check children's genitalia. Yeah, which should horrify everyone. Genitalia
(23:25):
and biological sex don't always match either, because that can
also know they do. Not checking the fact that we're
in a place where they're determining the fact that we're
in a place where they're asking children to submit to
genital examinations to play children's sports is just that should
(23:50):
horrify everyone. Yeah, it's insane some of them define biological
sex quote unquote again based on chromosome testing, which is
expensive and requires a lot of doctors access hormone testing,
which is also expensive and requires access to medical care.
Some of them do it based on birth certificate. Which
(24:11):
of the potential options is the least horrifying are Some
of them go a combination of those, But the ones
that are really dangerous are the ones that just don't
define how biological sex is to be determined at all,
which is a great number of them. Can you just
talk a little bit more about chromosomal testing. I mean
we're talking about of course xx x Y and then
(24:35):
other variations of that, right which I mean they're assuming
it's going to be one of the two, but surprised
when people get chromosoonal tests that it doesn't always turn
up that way. Yes, a lot more people are some
format of intersex than they realize, because there are plenty
of intersex people who appear to be para SX upon
external examination, and so the chromosomal testing. Really the major
(25:01):
issue with that is that that means that any child
who doesn't have access to medical care can no longer
participate in sports. It also, again places this burden in
a lot of these bills, not all of them, but
a lot of these bills it places that burden only
on girls teams, which should upset people just in terms
of basic feminism. I mean, all of these bills should
(25:25):
upset people in terms of basic feminism, but many people
don't think them through all the way. So with the
boys teams, they're not doing any chromosome all testing. Some
of the bills require all some of the bills require
that all people who are suspected of being transgender submit
to being tested for quote unquote biological sex. Some of
(25:45):
them only stay the girls teams, and the ones that
only state the girls teams, yes, there is no requirement,
meaning that trans men would still be allowed to participate
on men's teams under those bills. It's just really interesting
because it shows that they're really not thinking these issues
through and they really don't care about fairness. They're really
(26:08):
just trying to bully trans girls well and trying Yeah,
it's it's trans misogyny absolutely. Next or healthcare bills, they
attempt to limit or to ban access to gender affirming care.
So that is the rhetoric that I was trying to
get out there was it is often put on trans girls,
(26:31):
trans women, as the target of of these bills, and
it's often said, well, we're just trying to protect girls
and women's sports. We're just trying to protect girls, and
blah blah blah blah blah. I mean, that'she we hear
over and over again. That is the rhetoric we hear
over and over. And it's really interesting because the sports
bills largely target trans women. The healthcare bills, although they
(26:56):
target both trans women and trans men and non binary people,
the rhetoric aligned with them is usually about transmasculine which
we see white transmasculine people are usually considered to be
like helpless girls who can't make their own decisions, which
just comes down to misogyny. But we see that rhetoric
(27:17):
definitely as well, sort of in the same vein as
reproductive rights. It's treated as well, there's somebody who is
a woman who's and I'm saying that obviously with the
rhetoric that that's having their uterus removed or having there,
and it's once again to reinforce that if you have
a uterus, only supposed to give birth right. Yeah, it
definitely comes down to that. The racial aspect of this
(27:40):
can also not be ignored these kinds of forced birth,
and the panic that birth rates are going down is
very much tied to white replacement theory, which is white
supremacist rhetoric. And you see that very much echoed in
all of a lot of these trans issues because they're
(28:02):
generally only worried about white trans masks. You see this
a lot in fame. One of the famous examples I
like to point to is Abigail Schreyer's Irreparable Damage, which
I have to just sigh at because I just can't.
Her arguments are basically that young, overwhelmingly white trans masks
(28:23):
are overwhelming white. In her rhetoric, trans masks are sterilizing themselves,
and I really think it's just important to draw those
connections as well. Yeah, yeah, I just had to look
that up because I had not heard of that. So,
at the risk of being slightly off topic, I am
a transplant. I talk a lot about trans masculine terature
(28:45):
and trans masculine infantilization, and Abigail Schreier is really one
of the main pundits pushing that side of transphobia, right,
which is funny because you I mean not funny, not funny,
but it's odd because for such a long time we
have seen a lot of turf ideas really targeted at
(29:07):
trans women specifically, and that's really scary like rhetoric for sure,
and it is all tied into that white supremacy, that
white replacement theory that if you turn on Fox News,
all the opinion people are just talking about it all
day long, basically, and they're not really that secretive about it,
I think because they are oftentimes not explicitly using the
(29:30):
language that we associate with like bigotry or hate or whatever.
They'll use more dog whistles and things like that. It's
much harder for people to identify when somebody is being
just flat out yeah. And that is the function of
what a dog whistle is is to be able to
alert people who are already in the in group of
(29:53):
conspiracy theories and hatred, to alert them that this is
what we're talking about without seeming hateful to bystanders. Next,
our curriculum or schooling bills, these attempts to ban discussions
of gender identity in the classroom. If we don't talk
about it, it will just go away, type of logic.
News flash, we don't go away. So the next category
(30:17):
is curriculum or schooling bills. So the majority of sports
bills are based on schools. But these are bills that
are not sports bills but related to schools. These are
the famous don't say Gay bills, which, if you actually
read the text of the bills, the vast majority of
the don't say Gay bills are actually more focused on
don't say trans. They have a lot more to say
(30:38):
about discussing gender in schools, and they have a lot
to say about discussing sexuality in schools as well. But
the fact that the mainstream reporting of this has completely
ignored the trans aspect of them is really concerning to me. Yeah,
that was also concerning to me, And I also saw
(30:58):
with those bills in particular, I saw a lot of
people arguing, if you read the bill, it doesn't even
say game. But that's besides the point. And I'm not
saying that's what you're saying. I'm saying, Yeah, a lot
of these bills also ban education on diversity, inclusion and
critical race theory, again tying into that, the anti trands
(31:19):
movement is very deeply tied with the white supremacist movement,
and we're seeing that play out in this legislation. A
lot of these bills require parental permission before teaching about
any of these topics. A lot of them require that
parents be allowed to remove their students from any activity
that the parents don't agree with. A lot of these
bills also have forced outing or miss gendering clauses, which
(31:42):
would force staff to out children to their guardians no
matter the circumstances, functionally to use mandated reporter functions to
report to parents about if a child is questioning their
gender or sexuality, usually their gender in these bills, Yeah,
can we just talk about to just the harm in
(32:03):
that and that's going to kill children and that that
is the point blank. Yeah, and that's the ultimate goal.
The goal is to kill off or closet transgender children
whatever makes them untrans Yeah, by what went over cost. Yeah,
(32:24):
we're seeing this a lot in a war of attrition
in terms of taking away healthcare, in terms of taking
away safe spaces for people to even be themselves, in
terms of trying to take away social transition opportunities. And
we're seeing this have an effect. There was this really
incredible study done by the Trevor Project that showed that
states that are considering more anti trans legislation actually have
(32:48):
notable increased calls to the Trevor Projects suicide hotlines and
can you tell us our listeners just what the Trevor
Project is, what it does, why it's so important. The
Trevor Project is a wonderful nonprofit that focuses on reducing
suicidality among LGBT youth. They run a crisis hotline that
(33:10):
allows youth to call if they are in crisis, a
suicide hotline for trans youth, trans youth, and queer youth
in general. It's really scary that we're seeing that these
bills are not only threatening the future of trans kids,
but also threatening their lives as well and their mental absolutely.
(33:31):
The next one is bathroom bills, which people are largely
familiar with due to the famous North Carolina example in
that was defeated, but bathroom bills are coming back. Basically,
they say that bathroom designation should be dependent on again,
biological sex. A lot of them do not clarify how
biological sex is to be determined. They also often ban
(33:53):
multiperson gender neutral restrooms. All multiperson bathrooms must be designated
male or female, and they sometimes even pan use of
single occupancy restrooms by trans individuals. So it really is
less of an issue. They tried to say it's a
privacy issue, they tried to say it's a comfort issue.
It really is about making it much more difficult for
(34:14):
trans people to exist in public. Yeah, and always and
and all of these bills. That's the ultimate goal. Absolutely,
it's it's eliminationist. It's fascism. Absolutely. All the people saying
fascism is rising, fascism is here, um and the sooner
people realize that, the better. And we can also see
(34:38):
that the trans community is being particularly targeted right now,
but even before that, people of color have been targeted
by the very fascist institutions of this country. These issues
are rising, and if you're only aware of them now,
it's only because you've been privileged enough to be unaware
of them up until this point. These generally take a
(35:02):
couple of forms. Usually, they ban editing of birth certificates
for gender identity. They say that there was only birth
certificates are only editable if there was a clerical error,
or sometimes not until age eighteen, or sometimes they require
a core order signifying that how somebody has had surgery
to change their sex. Quote unquote before allowing birth certificates
(35:23):
to be edited. They often ban gender markers such as
X or non binary or into sex gender markers. There
was a few bills making name changes impossible or extremely
difficult for incarcerated persons. Generally, the idea is to raise
the cost both in time and in money of transitioning legally,
(35:47):
making it as as inaccessible and as complicated as you
possibly can. That's not all. Unfortunately, alex has a couple
of miscellaneous bills to go over as well. These are
really concerned bills. I know, because they're in a miscellaneous
category that they're easy to ignore, but a lot of
them either give legal protection or rollback laws banning conversion therapy.
(36:10):
And this is not only for trans children, but conversion
therapy in general. We've seen bills like that introduced in Indiana, Iowa,
New Hampshire, and South Carolina. We see bills considered that
would ban use of public funds on any organization that
provides transforming care to minors in any capacity, dramatically limiting
(36:31):
the work that many nonprofits and charities provide. We've seen
a lot of religious freedom bills that are basically freedom
to discriminate bills basically saying you can discriminate against trans
or queer people if you have a sincerely held belief
that what they're doing is immoral in your religion. These
are often being bundled with abortion clauses, which is important
(36:51):
to note that the abortion rights issues and trans rates
issues are deeply, deeply intertwined. Yeah, so, do you want
to talk a little bit more about that, Yeah? Absolutely so.
The first issue is that plenty of trans people, plenty
of non binary people do require access to abortion. We
know statistically that trans people and non binary people already
(37:16):
have disproportionately difficult access to abortion and other reproductive care,
so that in they are more likely statistically to have
adverse outcomes. We're already seeing that. Additionally to that, trans
people are more than twice as likely to live in
poverty ass as people. So these are all factors that
exacerbate the issues around abortion access for trans folks. But
(37:41):
even more so than that, it really comes down to
an issue of bodily autonomy. Bodily autonomy, for those who
are not aware, is the idea that people can make
their own decisions regarding their body, even if others disapprove
of those decisions, and so bodily autonomy absolutely covers things
like gender firming care or transition. It also includes things
like abortion or elective surgeries or basically, bodily autonomy is
(38:05):
a huge tenant upon which feminism is founded. The idea
that people can make educated and informed choices about their
own bodies and what to do with them is critically important,
and without it there can be no there there can
be no feminism. Frankly, and the people who don't realize
that trans people are functionally just fighting for bodily autonomy
(38:28):
as well as legal recognition and societal respect and some
other issues as well, But fundamentally the issues of medical
transition comes down to bodily autonomy. So, I mean, all
of these things are obviously very upsetting. I mean, it's
it's not looking fabulous for us. But but it's not
(38:50):
too late either, Alex you told me that some of these,
not all of them, but some of our the legislative
sessions are coming up in August or in the fall
rather September around there. What can people do who are listening,
What can people do to help and get involved? Sure, So,
(39:12):
one thing I want to emphasize is that the vast
majority of the bills that have been introduced have failed,
even though some of them have passed, and every bill
that passes is a tragedy, we need to keep in
mind that every bill that fails is a victory as
well for the trans community. Probably one of my favorite
examples is Texas actually called a special session, meaning that
(39:33):
they had an entire legislative session in one dedicated to
anti trans bills. They tried to pass thirty two different
anti trans bills, and of all thirty two introduced in
that special session, only one sports bill passed because all
of the rest of them were defeated. These bills are
not popular, they are not wanted by constituents, and it's
(39:56):
really important to emphasize that this is being pushed by
a few loud people and that these are not representative
of what people actually want. We can also point to
in response to the anti trans legislative crisis, there has
been a coalition of senators and House representatives from nineteen
(40:17):
different states who are planning to propose trans positive bills,
specifically trans protections in their state and also actually trans
refugee protections in their states. So people fleeing from states
that have basically declared war on trans people. Connecticut has
passed their bill regarding this. New York is fairly close
(40:37):
to passing their bill. From what I understand, California is
considering one, Minnesota is considering one. So there is action
happening and there is positivity happening. We're we're in a
tough spot for sure, and I want to emphasize that
we need people to act. Now. This is not going
to go away if you ignore it. But when people
(41:00):
don't ignore it, and when people actually, as our slogan says,
step up for trans kids, we can make this change
and we can protect trans kids. And we are seeing
that happen. The vast majority these bills are failing. Our
goal is that all of them fail. In terms of
what you can do, this is the point where I
plug my organization. So the Transformations Project, which can be
(41:20):
found at transformations project dot org, we compile a ton
of information about these bills for you. We explain what
the bills do in plain language. We tell you all
of the sponsors of those bills. We tell you which
representatives to contact to try to simplify the legislative process
because we know it is obtuse to say the least,
and one of the first things you can do is
(41:42):
to go onto our website and find your representatives and
contact them and tell them you do not want these
anti transit bills. We need to remind legislators, particularly state
legislators who have a much smaller pool of people to
draw from, that we do elect them, and that the
people do have power over what they choose to sponsor
(42:05):
and what they choose to forward. These bills are overwhelmingly
not that just bad for trans people, but they have many,
many repercussions for sist people as well. Everyone should care
about these bills. I also definitely encourage people. We are
at a point where I encourage people to organize on
their own. I encourage people to try to set up
(42:27):
community defense networks and to take steps for their own
safety in rising anti trans violence. I encourage people to protest.
I encourage people to do the bare minimum of living
in a democracy and vote in all your elections, including
your local elections. If anybody is interested in helping with
the Transformations Project, we are always taking volunteers. You can
(42:49):
find a way to volunteer with us on our website.
Those I suppose are the major things. It's great to
hear that the majority of these bills do not pass,
but I think that they will serve the purpose of
absolutely their intimidation. I think they serve the purpose of
intimidating but also giving license to other people to hate. Well,
(43:15):
they're trying to pass laws, so I should be able
to hate a trans person too. It's crazy. A lot
of it is part of the quote unquote culture war,
where they're trying to turn a lot of the public
against trans people, and they're also trying to embolden people
who already were bigoted against trans people. And unfortunately and tragically,
(43:37):
we are seeing that strategy work. We are seeing rising
hate crimes against trans folks. We are seeing previously supportive
people unfortunately not back up their support nearly as much.
And it really is the time that we desperately, desperately
need allies to step up because trans people are a
very small proportion of the population. Just statistically, we are
(44:00):
a very small community, and we are a very disadvantaged community,
and they love to remind us of that too while
they're taking away our rights. Trans people are an incredibly
discriminated against community in every aspect of life, and we
really need allies to be allies and not just tweet hashtags,
and not just not just show up to protests, but
(44:22):
to show up for trans people in person and materially
particularly marginal multiply marginalized trance people such as disabled trance
people or trans people of color. Particularly. Every trans person
that you know probably knows about these bills, but we
need more SIS people to speak out on these things. LGB, LGBT,
(44:44):
LGB sis people, straight sis people, everybody needs to care
about this kind of stuff because I think one of
the ways that a lot of people don't think about
how this affects this people. Well, think about in a
situation where a bathroom bill passes and they say that
you can only use the bathroom of your biological sex. Well,
let's say that you're a Cish gender woman, but somebody
(45:06):
thanks that you don't look like a Cist gender woman,
and that gives them the license to harass you or
accuse you of being a man or whatever. And that's
just one example, and it's happened. Happened. We've seen not
only harassment but open assaults of people who have been
falsely assumed to be trans. And this is really where
(45:26):
it comes back into bodily autonomy and feminism at large
is once you start policing who belongs to a gender category,
Once you make that basically up to the anybody, any
human being can point at you and say I don't
think you look enough like a woman. That is incredibly
dangerous for SIS people as well. Absolutely, just as you said, well, Alex,
(45:50):
to ask ask you something a little more positive and
all of this, I want to know for me. This
is something I'm trying to ask all my guests, but
I want to know from me you, why do you
think trans is beautiful? Why do you think being trans
is beautiful? Oh? I love that question, Thank you so much.
I think being trans is absolutely beautiful. I think it
(46:10):
is one of the most radical actions of self love
that human beings can take. And I try to emphasize
this a lot in my advocacy that through it all,
through all of the oppression that we face, it really
is radical self love and self acceptance. And I have
(46:31):
never loved myself more. I have never been more secure
in myself then I have been since coming out and
since pursuing transition. And that's something that I want other
people to have because it is an incredibly beautiful thing.
It is an incredibly empowering thing. It changes your life
for the better, It absolutely does, absolutely and I and
(46:54):
that's exactly why we're protecting this right. We're protecting this
not only because transis beauty of full but also because
trans people are human beings who deserve to be protected. Absolutely. Yeah.
Well yeah, we're absolutely trying to protect people's access to
to that freedom of feeling, how however makes them happiest. Well, Alex,
(47:16):
before we wrap up, I just want to ask can
you share your socials and how people can find Transformations
Project again? Sure, my socials are I pretty much am
just on Twitter. We'll never see each other then, only
on Instagram. Yeah, I don't take it off pictures, but
I work from home. I don't get a lot of
(47:36):
like scenery. Uh, I'm on Twitter. You can find me
at Alex Petrovnia. That is p E t R O
v n I A. You can find the Transformations Project
at Transformations Project dot org. Or we are on Instagram.
We are on Instagram, we are on Twitter, We're on TikTok,
(47:57):
we are on Facebook, We're on LinkedIn, even and discord
right and we are on discord We organize our volunteers
through discord, but anyone is welcome to join our Discord server.
We can be found usually at the hashtag step up
for transum, but also all of our social links are
accessible through our website in the footer, and we give
(48:19):
updates regularly when the legislative sessions are active. We actually
give a update every weekday of all the movement of
bills and calls to action around those bills. So if
you are seeking to be an informed person, you should
absolutely follow us on our socials and try to learn
more about the crisis going on. And this also especially
(48:43):
if you are SIS, because we especially need your help
and this affects you to absolutely. Before we end today's episode,
Alex will be sharing a quote from a trans youth
who he mentors at the Sam and Devora Foundation, who
is speaking on how the recent anti trans legislation has
been making them feel. As a way to kind of
(49:05):
put today's episode in perspective for you, this is a
quote from r and they say, and I quote. With
the laws put in place this and last year, they
have definitely made an impact on me, my family and friends.
With most of my friends being miners, we have to
face the reality that we won't be able to exist
in some places without the genuine threat of the law
(49:25):
taking us away from our families, stripping off us of
our care, using us as fuel for that hateful tirade.
My family, for the first time, really had to think
about this as well. We as trans people are the
first to know risks. Our community is dedicated to our safety,
but our sister gender familia is not so lucky. My
own mother started to tear up as she heard that
I could be killed if I traveled certain places. This
(49:48):
was after months of her dismissing everything I've been concerned with,
from this to Roe v Wade, all from a good place,
but dismissing nonetheless. With the hyper visibility of trans people
at the moment, we're all aware of the uptick of
trying centered violence. My own community is no stranger to this,
and for the first time, I felt genuine fear in
the Month of Pride to wear a simple transpread shirt.
(50:08):
It's nothing a child should ever experience, but with the
politicization of trans experience, I can't even count on all
my teachers for safety because it's their opinion. And before
we go, I would also like to share some resources.
If you are in need of help or in need
of someone to talk to about what you're going through,
you can call the trans Lifeline at eight seven seven
(50:32):
five six five eight eight six zero, and you can
also contact the Trevor Project at one eight six six
eight seven three eight six. The Trevor Project also allows
you to text with their number six seven eight dash
(50:53):
six seven eight. And that is all we have for
today's episode. I'm certainly glad to hear that even though
these bills are popping up all over the place, like
Alex said, they're largely unwanted by the majority of Americans
and they aren't succeeding. With all that in mind, we
still need to stay informed and let these lawmakers know
(51:16):
they're not helping anyone. Please check out the Transformations Project
for information on how to volunteer or to donate, and
let me know over on the Beauty Translated Instagram at
Beauty Translated Pod. What was your favorite part of today's episode?
And please, if you haven't already leave the podcasts are
waiting or review on Apple Podcasts. It means the world
(51:38):
to me and to those that have already. Thank you
so much. Next week, I'm sitting down with one of
my trans children. Stay tuned for more Beauty Translated, and
stay beautiful y'all. The show is an association with the
I Heart Next Up program co founded by on a
Hoss name Joel Money and the Sena Media. Beauty Translated
(52:01):
is sound designed by Jessica Cranchit and produced by Kurt
Karen and Ali Perry, and our theme song was composed
by Aaron Kaufman. For more podcasts from iHeart, visit the
i Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get
your favorite shows.
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