October 31, 2023 • 26 mins
The former Negro League players remember the greats from their days in the the league. Some names are familiar, some were even unknown outside of the local clubs they played for, and some like Satchel Paige are remembered by all.
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Speaker 1 (00:07):
Hi, I'm Bill Overton. As our series is shown, there
were many great players from the Negro Leagues, some that
we all know, like Jackie Robinson, Hank Aaron, Satrick Page,
and some unfortunately that only the players from that time remember.
Our episode today focuses on the players' memories of the
greats from the Negro League era. Hall of Famer Hank
(00:32):
Aaron remembers that the level of play in the Negro
Leagues offered players a chance to play in Major League baseball.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
When I think back and I've talked with Willie Mays
about the Negro Leagues, how special that time was, What
was the cohesiveness, what was the general philosophy of the
players that played in the Negro leagues?
Speaker 3 (00:52):
I think, Ron, I think that we all felt like
if we could be successful playing in the Negro League,
that we could probably play in the major leagues. All
of us basically felt that way because usually the players
that especially if you're a young player and you was
playing against players who had played a little bit longer
than you had. They had been in the some of
(01:13):
them had been in the mount of League, some of
them had the experience of playing against great Negro League players,
so we all felt like if we could have a
good year, good season, that you had chance to play
in in in the major leagues.
Speaker 1 (01:25):
Outfielder Gerald Casten even calls growing up watching the great
talent and then being able to play in the league himself.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
They had so many stars in that league who had
so much talent. You had an opportunity to see them
growing up as well as when you played in the
league itself. How would you describe them?
Speaker 4 (01:43):
I was that in the hot, hot, dedicated ball just
at the time that you knew it coming along there.
It wasn't the right time. My mother used to taking
the ce the name of the league back in fifty
four fifty five. He tag of lunch on Sunday and
they playing double hitters there. We went to see him.
(02:05):
I mean him be packed and those gas was really good.
But I had no idea one day I'll be playing
in there. You know, I always loved the playball. I
was pretty good in basketball. Then he'll be football. And
I know my baseball coach, and I may say he
in high school. His name was George Cartman. He told me,
(02:26):
he said, Castle, you a football player, you got a
future in baseball. He said, let that football coach in
and the mother idious knock out. They brain. So I quit.
I had made the football team. So I told coach
Tobin and I said, mister Coche want me to quit
playing because he want me to, you know, for the
(02:46):
baseball team. Fac I got a future in that. He said,
you wait out, I see go George.
Speaker 1 (02:51):
Here's pitcher Hank Mason remembering the great players that came
out of the Nagle Bags.
Speaker 5 (02:57):
Let me tell you this, some of the best baseball
players in the world come out of the Negro League.
And Kansas City Monarch sent more black baseball, well they
had to be black, sent more baseball players to the
Major League than any other team in the Negro League,
(03:19):
or maybe all of them combined. There was Jackie Robertson,
Henry Mason, Poncho Herrera, Ernie Banks. All of those guys
came out of the Negro League, Hank Aaron of Winnie Mays.
All of those guys came out of the Negro League,
(03:40):
and they were great baseball player. Now I wasn't great,
but I didn't make it.
Speaker 1 (03:46):
Pitchure Eugene Scrokes recalls the style of play in the
Negro leagues and how it created stars like Willie Mace.
Speaker 2 (03:52):
All of them are very special baseball players. What was
it that they all did that made them so special?
Speaker 6 (03:58):
Eugene, Well, you know we were a made You know,
he could make some He made some some ou standing catches,
you know over his head, catch you that that you
never seen that around here. He could ruin, he could throw,
and he was a you know, all round ball player.
Speaker 1 (04:17):
Gerald Casten becalls the best pitcher that he ever caught
for during his time in the Negro leagues.
Speaker 2 (04:22):
You were a catcher who was the best pitcher that
you ever caught?
Speaker 4 (04:26):
Oh, I would say old Bulldog George Thomas. He was
about roommate in college too, and we played sadlo ball
in Chicago before we went to play foot our belieby
the Colors every styd. Those guys they good fastball. I
don't know how the tab of bed, but now the
tab of ending the ninety ninety two ninety three with
Bulldog Man he had held back. I had ever sponge
(04:50):
in my head and that catched me to catch that guy.
Speaker 1 (04:54):
Pitcher. Eugene Scruggs remember striking out Negro League star Bob
Wilson three times in front of MLB scouts.
Speaker 2 (05:02):
You played against the Kansas City Monarchs, and one of
the Monarchs players was Bob Wilson, and he was really
looking forward to playing this particular game. Yeah, tell me
that about that game.
Speaker 6 (05:13):
Yeah, Bob, Bob Wilson, he was, Uh. He lives in
California now, so I was told because I haven't seen
him since the days in baseball. But this particular game
that we were playing in Grand redbn uh Bob, he
he come up to the bed three times and uh
(05:36):
so each time I scrubbed Bob out and he come
back and told me.
Speaker 4 (05:41):
Uh, he said, you.
Speaker 6 (05:42):
Know anything, he said, I said, I tried all I
could to hit that ball. Okay, but dad talk as
s curveball.
Speaker 4 (05:48):
This I could handle.
Speaker 2 (05:51):
And of course he was being scouted that day for
the major leagues? Was he not? And you he went
over three You struck him out three times?
Speaker 6 (05:59):
Yeah, he was. He was a his guy was all
understand he was. Maybe that's why that he had strug
him out, you know, kind of I'm kind of there,
do you know somebody they're watching.
Speaker 1 (06:11):
His catcherest Fan remembers being amazed at the level of
talent in the Negro leagues.
Speaker 7 (06:16):
Well, I tell you what. I was a young kid fourteen,
fifteen years old, fifteen when I went in the Negro League,
and some of those guys like Dreams and the name
of Dreason went on to the majors. I got a
chance to see side of pitch and I think, no,
(06:38):
I didn't see Josh s Gipson. I read a book
on that. What he was talking about points about hitting.
But a lot of those guys, you know, as a kid,
you don't remember. But the talent battle, Oh my goodness,
those guys could hit and run. I mean they could run.
I've seen guys were playing teams like the Birmingham Black
(07:01):
baron last game we played, they have two lead off men.
They and during that time we were young, we didn't
gonna thank not Fundamental Couch got it laid ball at
our first baby Nick thing. You know they aren't standing
up on Burnley because nobody covers third and the title Well,
I mean this is something we think it out being kids.
(07:24):
We'll sit there and watch the team. If you don't
cover that day, we're gonna steal it. And all the
things that we learned in baseball. We have coaches. We
just got out there and played and figured it out ourselves.
But as far as the guys that I've seen, I've
seen the greatest first day we ever want to say.
(07:45):
His name was James Ivory, played with the Birmingham Black
Bearon great son of philom Jessin Mitchell and my manager
played professional baseball. He was a three party four hitter
in triple late in professional baseball, and he fell on
the same patagory high bed they didn't have. They had
(08:07):
enough black palls on the team. Now, let me mind
remind you this was not a baseball rule. This was
a rule that the owners and the executive executives sit
down and made up the only two black players to
a team.
Speaker 1 (08:24):
Pitcher J. C. Casselebury recalls his teammates being the best
players he had seen, including a player who was valued
higher than Hank Garrett.
Speaker 4 (08:33):
Ja C.
Speaker 2 (08:33):
Let me ask you a little bit about the players
that you played against her you've witnessed and watched, because
the Negro League certainly had so many great You already
mentioned about Willie Mays and others like that Hank Aaron,
But tell me some of the other players that stood
out to you while you were playing, either playing against
or playing.
Speaker 8 (08:50):
With the guys. Well, the guy that stood out with
me was most of guys on my team, Joe Cherry.
We picked him up and Virginia Beach one Sunday. H
he was like me. He could catch, he could catch,
he could play first page, second base.
Speaker 7 (09:08):
Uh.
Speaker 8 (09:08):
As a matter of fact, when we played in Yanks,
stay and I caught him.
Speaker 5 (09:12):
Uh.
Speaker 8 (09:12):
Another guy was Van Rushing out of Arizona. Van Rushing.
I think they sold Hank Aaron for twenty five thousand
and they sold Van Rushing for like fifty thousand. Varan
Rushman was the only guy that they sold for more
money than than hack Era. And then we had another
guy named uh kinda getty shortstop. Hecker was shortstop from
(09:36):
New York City. And then we had a guy by
the name of Green shortstop. And then we had double duty,
who was the left and right handed pitcher, and uh
Carl Phony. Carl Phony, I can't understand today why he
didn't make it to the major league because he had
he was a pitcher, but he had everything he had.
He was throwing. Uh slaughtered before slater were fashionable, and
(10:02):
he had every pitch he threw moved, His fastball moved
it jumped everything he do then. That was Bobby Deale,
Bobby Miville and I played together in Birmingham and the
industrialg Bobbyville threw so hard he the catcher. We at
(10:22):
big man Bobmyville picked his hand through the net in field.
Speaker 1 (10:27):
Original Howard recalls his memory of Uncle Jim Taylor as
his manager.
Speaker 2 (10:32):
With your close friend, Candy, Jim Taylor, you alluded to
him a little bit earlier, legendary Negro league manager. Tell
me a little bit about his history.
Speaker 9 (10:40):
I loved Dule Jim. Every baby, everybody, everybody called him
Uncle Jim, Oscar Charleston and Buck O'Neil, all young man's
everybody called him Uncle Jim. I don't know if I
was as close to Uncle Jim as a kid can
be you a child can be to you, old man.
For some reason, we hit it off. He comes through.
(11:02):
I'm a black team. Well I was his team, bad boss,
all these black teams that came in here in the South.
The play to pay the student to take and again
I met up with Jim when he when they came in,
and we hit it off. And sago in Chicago, periodic
for you to see him and and uh in fact
that I worked the East West Game in nineteen forty
(11:22):
six forty seven, which is the All Star game. But
he was, he was just he's just so much I
love I love him talk a long part. Oh he
could talk so bad.
Speaker 1 (11:33):
The most brought up name when asking about legends in
the Negro League was the Satchel Page. E. Lloyd Robinson
remembers Satchel's ability to make his pitches move.
Speaker 2 (11:44):
You mentioned about Satchel Page. That is the name, probably
along with Buck O'Neill and maybe a handful of others
that people remember most about the Negro League. Tell me
a little bit about him, because aside from being nice,
tell me about his baseball skills.
Speaker 10 (11:57):
Oh, he could throw the ball leg lightning, and they
didn't do nothing that went straight. And everything he throw
it went up down cross ways, aside ways or some
kind of way. He never he never throw a State price.
Speaker 8 (12:10):
Yeah he has.
Speaker 10 (12:12):
And Buck Leonard hit the ball so hard and looked like.
Speaker 9 (12:14):
He was just throwing them up here.
Speaker 1 (12:16):
Number Reginald Howard also remembers the influence of cool Papa
Bell and the work ethic of Satchel Page that made
him a highly paid player.
Speaker 2 (12:26):
Most people, if they know anything about the negro legs
know those last three names about h you know Coo,
Papa Bell and the others. Tell me about them, what
you know? What was fact and what was fiction about him?
Speaker 11 (12:36):
Uh?
Speaker 9 (12:37):
I don't want to try to stay with them more
than Fixtion Suther. I can't under stay with that. Am
I even discuss it?
Speaker 5 (12:43):
But uh, a lot like that?
Speaker 9 (12:45):
What from Jimmy Crush you I don't know if you
know Jimmy was on that same team. He lived in
the same building my brother lived in in Chicago, and
every time I go Chicago, I would just got to
get with him and spend as much time as I
possibly could. Uh, Jimmy And the one thing that was
so outstanding about Bail and I really admire for this.
(13:06):
I've never heard anybody echo or disparaging worry about him.
The first class gentleman all the way around. And I just,
I just I really admire that so much.
Speaker 2 (13:16):
When it came to Satchel Page, you know, the great
line is that he was so fast that he could
turn out the light and he could get more.
Speaker 9 (13:22):
That's that's fool. I don't even like to discuss that
kind of stuff. No, I'm not serious. That's a waste
of time when we could do something meaningful that said
that other people can even we can get out meaning
for information and not throughout that kind of garbage.
Speaker 2 (13:38):
Well, when you say meaningful, tell me a little bit.
What's meaningful to you is somebody that played in the
negro leags.
Speaker 9 (13:44):
Well let's take it from from a social standpoint of view.
Let's take let's take saxral page and this thing I
loved about Secha A lot of people will looms. I
explained to you Lego League games being played three days
a week, Friday, Saturday and Sunday. Okay, let's day Satuo
pitchure Saturday at Movemart Barton, Kansas City, or gets the
(14:05):
Memphis Red six and he pitches a good game. Or
at Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, the fourth days is it
turned again. But they're playing somebody in uh Lloyd, Wisconsin.
You know a little bit of a Barsoman now just
a little bit ahead of a high school team. So
why would they use it wouldn't use a good pitcher
(14:27):
on that day. However, three weeks ahead of time, a
team in minor in North Dakota or in Rochester neet Rochester, Minnesota,
say hey, we want to hire Satcha for that day.
I called him a hire gun. And Satcha would go
there and pitch for that for that team on that
on that on that Wednesday. But he would pitch there.
(14:47):
But then he come back Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday. They
playing in Memphis Ballpark four in Satchue Pages pitch. He
did a lot of that. He did a lot of
leading the club that he was with and go and
pitch out out our side of the Negro Leaf. And
that's why he was one of the highest plee players
in baseball.
Speaker 1 (15:06):
Pitcher Hank Mason because his time playing with Satchel Page
and his ability to control his pitches, along with his
humor and kindness.
Speaker 5 (15:15):
Let me tell you I never played with Satchel in
the Negro League, but after I advanced to tripa a
baseball with the Miami Marlins, that's where I played with Sachel. Sachel,
his strength was controlled. He could throw it about any
(15:38):
place that he wanted to throw it and as hard
as he wanted to throw it. If he wanted to
throw it on the outside corner, he could do. I
tell you what. When we would go to the book,
and Satchel and I were relief pitches. I was a
long man and he was a short man. And Satchel
(16:00):
could take a chewing gum wrapper and throw it just
right on the corner, down the middle, any place that
he wanted to throw it. And I think that was
Satchel's success.
Speaker 2 (16:14):
He also had a great personality, did he not. I've
heard that he was very.
Speaker 5 (16:18):
Funny, very very funny. Yeah he was. You know, I
don't know how much money Satchel was making, but some mornings,
like we were in Toronto or Montreal or someplace like that,
he always called me country boy. I came from Marshall, Missouri,
(16:38):
and he was from Kansas City, and he would call
me up say hey, country boy, you want something to
eat for breakfast?
Speaker 9 (16:47):
I said yeah, He.
Speaker 5 (16:48):
Said, well come on over, and I would go over
and he'd have a corn bee, pash poach days and
hash browns toes and all of that kind of stuff.
And I couldn't afford that kind of stuff, not on
my salary, but he could do it. And maybe six
(17:09):
or seven times while we were on a road trip,
that's what he would do. He would invite you over
to his room in the morning time to eat breakfast
with him.
Speaker 1 (17:21):
Picture. Don Woods remembers the first time he saw Satral
Page and the advice that Satchel Page gave it.
Speaker 2 (17:27):
Tell me about the first time you ever saw Satchel Page.
Speaker 7 (17:30):
Okay, the first time I met sech Is, which I
didn't realize until after. We had a conversation about some
of the things he has accomplished, and I realized then
that I'm in a company of somebody who's really one
of a king. He was a person that was was
(17:53):
one who knew what he was talking about, especially with baseball.
He was very confident, and I was really really impressed
with him, and to me saying to myself, here, I'm
sitting in the nug out next to this guy calls
at your page.
Speaker 2 (18:11):
What was the best piece of advice he ever gave you, Don.
Speaker 7 (18:14):
He told me one of the things I can recall
very well. He says, when you're pitching, never ever get nervous,
because your opponent you're better. They can tell if you're nervous.
Always take control of the game and know what you're doing,
and become confident when you're out there.
Speaker 2 (18:32):
You know, it's always been said about him, how fast
he was. And of course the great line is, I
think this came from his roommate said he was so
fast that when he turned off the light, he got
in bed before it got dark. But tell me, what
were the little things about him that made him special?
Speaker 4 (18:46):
Okay?
Speaker 7 (18:47):
I think that some of the things that he did
especially And I asked him, you know, I said, you
know such, I've read a lot of things about you
and statements they say that you've done over period of
over five decades that you've been playing baseball. And I
said that how much of that is true? He said,
let me tell you one thing. He says, any statement
(19:09):
I made, I had to proof those statements to make
sure it was correct. So he says, anything you read
about me is true.
Speaker 2 (19:19):
Everything I'm hearing. Everything I'm hearing about him is that
he had a sense of humor as well.
Speaker 7 (19:24):
Oh he was, he was, and I think that probably
made him as such a great ball player. He never,
to me, seemed to be tight, and he enjoyed the game.
Speaker 2 (19:37):
Do you remember any of the stories that he shared
with you that made you laugh?
Speaker 10 (19:41):
Oh?
Speaker 7 (19:41):
Yeah, he wanted The stories he told me was that
when he went to I forget exactly the location, but
he would always guarantee wherever he played, he was guaranteed
that the first six outs would be struckouts. In addition
to that, during mid during a h say, for instance,
(20:02):
a third inning went out, he would bring his outfielders
into the dugout, hel him sit down, and he would pitch,
and they could never get the ball out and outfield.
Speaker 5 (20:12):
Why was that?
Speaker 3 (20:13):
I mean?
Speaker 2 (20:13):
What was his pitches? What did he do with his throws?
Speaker 5 (20:16):
You know what?
Speaker 8 (20:17):
I think?
Speaker 7 (20:17):
What made him so great? He had pinpoint control. All
of his pinches, pitches were knee high. He can you know,
he could throw a ball over a match book with
no problem every time.
Speaker 2 (20:36):
By doing that, did the opposition the other players get
upset that maybe he was showing them up? Or was
that not a part of the baseball lore at that time?
Speaker 7 (20:44):
I think that they considered him as being someone above
level of everybody else, and they didn't make him man.
They were not mad, but in fact they were praising
him on the telling he had in a lot of
cases as oh old as he was playing against those
younger guys.
Speaker 2 (21:03):
Was there a game that you happened to witness personally
that you'll never forget that he pitched.
Speaker 7 (21:09):
Well. When he played with us, which was sixty three.
He was there as a show card. He played a
couple of innings and I know at that time he
was like fifty some years old, and the few better
that he faced, out of maybe six betters, he struck
(21:29):
out three of them. So he still had his speed,
he had still had his control, and he was just
something to see.
Speaker 2 (21:38):
Yeah, how old was he? Because there was always some
question about his age when he was playing, particularly later
in his career, Like you you just talked about.
Speaker 7 (21:46):
Yeah, well, there's always been a saying that nobody knew
exactly how old he was. So it said that he
was like, I guess when he finished playing, he was
like at the age of fifty five. I he said
something about he's who harder than anyone in his generation.
(22:09):
But the Rectors says that really, who knows how old
he was?
Speaker 1 (22:15):
Infielder Dennis Biddle closes out an episode by remembering some
of his heroes and his memory of meeting Shackie.
Speaker 12 (22:22):
Robinson, players like Ted double Do the Red Cliff. He
should have been in the Hall of Fame. He didn't
play in the Major League because he missed his calling.
Josh Johnson. He was a catcher for the home tirh grade.
When Josh Jeffson came in as a youngster, it took
his plate because he went to the military. Bobbie Robinson,
(22:47):
who was a human bathroom playing around third base, traveled
with me many years. Told me about Ty Cobb and
how time him in to car was good friend and
nobody liked call Cogs. That was the other players too.
(23:09):
I met Jackie in nineteen fifty five. Uh, God, just
came in and I was with the Cubs. I was
with the Cubs of the free agent and Jackie and
I had a dinner downtown Chicago.
Speaker 3 (23:23):
Not Jacket, just me.
Speaker 12 (23:25):
It was five of us heard the bank, Jean Baker, Rock, Cameron, Llen,
Nukelem didn't show up. But you know, and I often
talk about this because it's the highlight, one of the
highlights on my life, meeting Jacket. I had heard about him,
I read about him and things that he went through.
(23:45):
And here I am sitting across the table from him,
and he didn't look real to me. His hair was white,
and I I looked at him and he said, you know, kid,
He called me kid. They cannot write in a book
of showing a movie what I went through and see.
(24:08):
I knew what jack had gone through in the Negro
League and made the league too, because hey, I gone
through it myself and the Negro League many time.
Speaker 2 (24:16):
I wanted to go home to Mama.
Speaker 12 (24:19):
So I asked, mister Robinson, did you ever think about quitting?
Speaker 7 (24:24):
I did.
Speaker 12 (24:25):
He looked at me and said every day. He said,
I thought about it every day, But I have made
a problem that I would open the door so other
Blacks will be able to play in the Major League.
That's something mister Robinson told me that I'll always be here.
His wife was one hundred years old now as a
(24:46):
friend of mine. I have pictures of me and her
and I that woman had some curse. That knew the woman.
Speaker 3 (24:58):
I think.
Speaker 12 (25:01):
If he did some things that I don't. I don't
understand how she made it too, but she did. So
That's one of the highlights of my life meeting Jackie Robinson.
Of course I met a lot of other players. I
met Frank Robinson, and I met uh Well. Of course,
Willie made was one of us. Hank Erret and I
(25:22):
was good friends. But there was a lot of other players.
Buck Leonard should have been in the Hall of Fame.
He should be in the Hall of Fame.
Speaker 7 (25:32):
Uh.
Speaker 12 (25:34):
There are a lot of other players too. There was
a lot of players that I saw play, Sir. I
saw them play, unbelievable players. It was in the thirties
that would have been Hall of famers in the Major League,
but they never had a chance.
Speaker 11 (25:59):
Behind the Bear Voices from the Negro Leagues is narrated
by Bill Overton, produced by Taylor Haber. Executive producers are
Jason Wykehelp, Darren Peck, and Ron Barr.
Speaker 3 (26:11):
Please check out our.
Speaker 11 (26:13):
Next episode as well as the episodes in this series.
This series is distributed by Sports Byline USA and the
eight Side Network
Hi, I'm Bill Overton. As our series is shown, there
were many great players from the Negro Leagues, some that
we all know, like Jackie Robinson, Hank Aaron, Satrick Page,
and some unfortunately that only the players from that time remember.
Our episode today focuses on the players' memories of the
greats from the Negro League era. Hall of Famer Hank
(00:32):
Aaron remembers that the level of play in the Negro
Leagues offered players a chance to play in Major League baseball.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
When I think back and I've talked with Willie Mays
about the Negro Leagues, how special that time was, What
was the cohesiveness, what was the general philosophy of the
players that played in the Negro leagues?
Speaker 3 (00:52):
I think, Ron, I think that we all felt like
if we could be successful playing in the Negro League,
that we could probably play in the major leagues. All
of us basically felt that way because usually the players
that especially if you're a young player and you was
playing against players who had played a little bit longer
than you had. They had been in the some of
(01:13):
them had been in the mount of League, some of
them had the experience of playing against great Negro League players,
so we all felt like if we could have a
good year, good season, that you had chance to play
in in in the major leagues.
Speaker 1 (01:25):
Outfielder Gerald Casten even calls growing up watching the great
talent and then being able to play in the league himself.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
They had so many stars in that league who had
so much talent. You had an opportunity to see them
growing up as well as when you played in the
league itself. How would you describe them?
Speaker 4 (01:43):
I was that in the hot, hot, dedicated ball just
at the time that you knew it coming along there.
It wasn't the right time. My mother used to taking
the ce the name of the league back in fifty
four fifty five. He tag of lunch on Sunday and
they playing double hitters there. We went to see him.
(02:05):
I mean him be packed and those gas was really good.
But I had no idea one day I'll be playing
in there. You know, I always loved the playball. I
was pretty good in basketball. Then he'll be football. And
I know my baseball coach, and I may say he
in high school. His name was George Cartman. He told me,
(02:26):
he said, Castle, you a football player, you got a
future in baseball. He said, let that football coach in
and the mother idious knock out. They brain. So I quit.
I had made the football team. So I told coach
Tobin and I said, mister Coche want me to quit
playing because he want me to, you know, for the
(02:46):
baseball team. Fac I got a future in that. He said,
you wait out, I see go George.
Speaker 1 (02:51):
Here's pitcher Hank Mason remembering the great players that came
out of the Nagle Bags.
Speaker 5 (02:57):
Let me tell you this, some of the best baseball
players in the world come out of the Negro League.
And Kansas City Monarch sent more black baseball, well they
had to be black, sent more baseball players to the
Major League than any other team in the Negro League,
(03:19):
or maybe all of them combined. There was Jackie Robertson,
Henry Mason, Poncho Herrera, Ernie Banks. All of those guys
came out of the Negro League, Hank Aaron of Winnie Mays.
All of those guys came out of the Negro League,
(03:40):
and they were great baseball player. Now I wasn't great,
but I didn't make it.
Speaker 1 (03:46):
Pitchure Eugene Scrokes recalls the style of play in the
Negro leagues and how it created stars like Willie Mace.
Speaker 2 (03:52):
All of them are very special baseball players. What was
it that they all did that made them so special?
Speaker 6 (03:58):
Eugene, Well, you know we were a made You know,
he could make some He made some some ou standing catches,
you know over his head, catch you that that you
never seen that around here. He could ruin, he could throw,
and he was a you know, all round ball player.
Speaker 1 (04:17):
Gerald Casten becalls the best pitcher that he ever caught
for during his time in the Negro leagues.
Speaker 2 (04:22):
You were a catcher who was the best pitcher that
you ever caught?
Speaker 4 (04:26):
Oh, I would say old Bulldog George Thomas. He was
about roommate in college too, and we played sadlo ball
in Chicago before we went to play foot our belieby
the Colors every styd. Those guys they good fastball. I
don't know how the tab of bed, but now the
tab of ending the ninety ninety two ninety three with
Bulldog Man he had held back. I had ever sponge
(04:50):
in my head and that catched me to catch that guy.
Speaker 1 (04:54):
Pitcher. Eugene Scruggs remember striking out Negro League star Bob
Wilson three times in front of MLB scouts.
Speaker 2 (05:02):
You played against the Kansas City Monarchs, and one of
the Monarchs players was Bob Wilson, and he was really
looking forward to playing this particular game. Yeah, tell me
that about that game.
Speaker 6 (05:13):
Yeah, Bob, Bob Wilson, he was, Uh. He lives in
California now, so I was told because I haven't seen
him since the days in baseball. But this particular game
that we were playing in Grand redbn uh Bob, he
he come up to the bed three times and uh
(05:36):
so each time I scrubbed Bob out and he come
back and told me.
Speaker 4 (05:41):
Uh, he said, you.
Speaker 6 (05:42):
Know anything, he said, I said, I tried all I
could to hit that ball. Okay, but dad talk as
s curveball.
Speaker 4 (05:48):
This I could handle.
Speaker 2 (05:51):
And of course he was being scouted that day for
the major leagues? Was he not? And you he went
over three You struck him out three times?
Speaker 6 (05:59):
Yeah, he was. He was a his guy was all
understand he was. Maybe that's why that he had strug
him out, you know, kind of I'm kind of there,
do you know somebody they're watching.
Speaker 1 (06:11):
His catcherest Fan remembers being amazed at the level of
talent in the Negro leagues.
Speaker 7 (06:16):
Well, I tell you what. I was a young kid fourteen,
fifteen years old, fifteen when I went in the Negro League,
and some of those guys like Dreams and the name
of Dreason went on to the majors. I got a
chance to see side of pitch and I think, no,
(06:38):
I didn't see Josh s Gipson. I read a book
on that. What he was talking about points about hitting.
But a lot of those guys, you know, as a kid,
you don't remember. But the talent battle, Oh my goodness,
those guys could hit and run. I mean they could run.
I've seen guys were playing teams like the Birmingham Black
(07:01):
baron last game we played, they have two lead off men.
They and during that time we were young, we didn't
gonna thank not Fundamental Couch got it laid ball at
our first baby Nick thing. You know they aren't standing
up on Burnley because nobody covers third and the title Well,
I mean this is something we think it out being kids.
(07:24):
We'll sit there and watch the team. If you don't
cover that day, we're gonna steal it. And all the
things that we learned in baseball. We have coaches. We
just got out there and played and figured it out ourselves.
But as far as the guys that I've seen, I've
seen the greatest first day we ever want to say.
(07:45):
His name was James Ivory, played with the Birmingham Black
Bearon great son of philom Jessin Mitchell and my manager
played professional baseball. He was a three party four hitter
in triple late in professional baseball, and he fell on
the same patagory high bed they didn't have. They had
(08:07):
enough black palls on the team. Now, let me mind
remind you this was not a baseball rule. This was
a rule that the owners and the executive executives sit
down and made up the only two black players to
a team.
Speaker 1 (08:24):
Pitcher J. C. Casselebury recalls his teammates being the best
players he had seen, including a player who was valued
higher than Hank Garrett.
Speaker 4 (08:33):
Ja C.
Speaker 2 (08:33):
Let me ask you a little bit about the players
that you played against her you've witnessed and watched, because
the Negro League certainly had so many great You already
mentioned about Willie Mays and others like that Hank Aaron,
But tell me some of the other players that stood
out to you while you were playing, either playing against
or playing.
Speaker 8 (08:50):
With the guys. Well, the guy that stood out with
me was most of guys on my team, Joe Cherry.
We picked him up and Virginia Beach one Sunday. H
he was like me. He could catch, he could catch,
he could play first page, second base.
Speaker 7 (09:08):
Uh.
Speaker 8 (09:08):
As a matter of fact, when we played in Yanks,
stay and I caught him.
Speaker 5 (09:12):
Uh.
Speaker 8 (09:12):
Another guy was Van Rushing out of Arizona. Van Rushing.
I think they sold Hank Aaron for twenty five thousand
and they sold Van Rushing for like fifty thousand. Varan
Rushman was the only guy that they sold for more
money than than hack Era. And then we had another
guy named uh kinda getty shortstop. Hecker was shortstop from
(09:36):
New York City. And then we had a guy by
the name of Green shortstop. And then we had double duty,
who was the left and right handed pitcher, and uh
Carl Phony. Carl Phony, I can't understand today why he
didn't make it to the major league because he had
he was a pitcher, but he had everything he had.
He was throwing. Uh slaughtered before slater were fashionable, and
(10:02):
he had every pitch he threw moved, His fastball moved
it jumped everything he do then. That was Bobby Deale,
Bobby Miville and I played together in Birmingham and the
industrialg Bobbyville threw so hard he the catcher. We at
(10:22):
big man Bobmyville picked his hand through the net in field.
Speaker 1 (10:27):
Original Howard recalls his memory of Uncle Jim Taylor as
his manager.
Speaker 2 (10:32):
With your close friend, Candy, Jim Taylor, you alluded to
him a little bit earlier, legendary Negro league manager. Tell
me a little bit about his history.
Speaker 9 (10:40):
I loved Dule Jim. Every baby, everybody, everybody called him
Uncle Jim, Oscar Charleston and Buck O'Neil, all young man's
everybody called him Uncle Jim. I don't know if I
was as close to Uncle Jim as a kid can
be you a child can be to you, old man.
For some reason, we hit it off. He comes through.
(11:02):
I'm a black team. Well I was his team, bad boss,
all these black teams that came in here in the South.
The play to pay the student to take and again
I met up with Jim when he when they came in,
and we hit it off. And sago in Chicago, periodic
for you to see him and and uh in fact
that I worked the East West Game in nineteen forty
(11:22):
six forty seven, which is the All Star game. But
he was, he was just he's just so much I
love I love him talk a long part. Oh he
could talk so bad.
Speaker 1 (11:33):
The most brought up name when asking about legends in
the Negro League was the Satchel Page. E. Lloyd Robinson
remembers Satchel's ability to make his pitches move.
Speaker 2 (11:44):
You mentioned about Satchel Page. That is the name, probably
along with Buck O'Neill and maybe a handful of others
that people remember most about the Negro League. Tell me
a little bit about him, because aside from being nice,
tell me about his baseball skills.
Speaker 10 (11:57):
Oh, he could throw the ball leg lightning, and they
didn't do nothing that went straight. And everything he throw
it went up down cross ways, aside ways or some
kind of way. He never he never throw a State price.
Speaker 8 (12:10):
Yeah he has.
Speaker 10 (12:12):
And Buck Leonard hit the ball so hard and looked like.
Speaker 9 (12:14):
He was just throwing them up here.
Speaker 1 (12:16):
Number Reginald Howard also remembers the influence of cool Papa
Bell and the work ethic of Satchel Page that made
him a highly paid player.
Speaker 2 (12:26):
Most people, if they know anything about the negro legs
know those last three names about h you know Coo,
Papa Bell and the others. Tell me about them, what
you know? What was fact and what was fiction about him?
Speaker 11 (12:36):
Uh?
Speaker 9 (12:37):
I don't want to try to stay with them more
than Fixtion Suther. I can't under stay with that. Am
I even discuss it?
Speaker 5 (12:43):
But uh, a lot like that?
Speaker 9 (12:45):
What from Jimmy Crush you I don't know if you
know Jimmy was on that same team. He lived in
the same building my brother lived in in Chicago, and
every time I go Chicago, I would just got to
get with him and spend as much time as I
possibly could. Uh, Jimmy And the one thing that was
so outstanding about Bail and I really admire for this.
(13:06):
I've never heard anybody echo or disparaging worry about him.
The first class gentleman all the way around. And I just,
I just I really admire that so much.
Speaker 2 (13:16):
When it came to Satchel Page, you know, the great
line is that he was so fast that he could
turn out the light and he could get more.
Speaker 9 (13:22):
That's that's fool. I don't even like to discuss that
kind of stuff. No, I'm not serious. That's a waste
of time when we could do something meaningful that said
that other people can even we can get out meaning
for information and not throughout that kind of garbage.
Speaker 2 (13:38):
Well, when you say meaningful, tell me a little bit.
What's meaningful to you is somebody that played in the
negro leags.
Speaker 9 (13:44):
Well let's take it from from a social standpoint of view.
Let's take let's take saxral page and this thing I
loved about Secha A lot of people will looms. I
explained to you Lego League games being played three days
a week, Friday, Saturday and Sunday. Okay, let's day Satuo
pitchure Saturday at Movemart Barton, Kansas City, or gets the
(14:05):
Memphis Red six and he pitches a good game. Or
at Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, the fourth days is it
turned again. But they're playing somebody in uh Lloyd, Wisconsin.
You know a little bit of a Barsoman now just
a little bit ahead of a high school team. So
why would they use it wouldn't use a good pitcher
(14:27):
on that day. However, three weeks ahead of time, a
team in minor in North Dakota or in Rochester neet Rochester, Minnesota,
say hey, we want to hire Satcha for that day.
I called him a hire gun. And Satcha would go
there and pitch for that for that team on that
on that on that Wednesday. But he would pitch there.
(14:47):
But then he come back Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday. They
playing in Memphis Ballpark four in Satchue Pages pitch. He
did a lot of that. He did a lot of
leading the club that he was with and go and
pitch out out our side of the Negro Leaf. And
that's why he was one of the highest plee players
in baseball.
Speaker 1 (15:06):
Pitcher Hank Mason because his time playing with Satchel Page
and his ability to control his pitches, along with his
humor and kindness.
Speaker 5 (15:15):
Let me tell you I never played with Satchel in
the Negro League, but after I advanced to tripa a
baseball with the Miami Marlins, that's where I played with Sachel. Sachel,
his strength was controlled. He could throw it about any
(15:38):
place that he wanted to throw it and as hard
as he wanted to throw it. If he wanted to
throw it on the outside corner, he could do. I
tell you what. When we would go to the book,
and Satchel and I were relief pitches. I was a
long man and he was a short man. And Satchel
(16:00):
could take a chewing gum wrapper and throw it just
right on the corner, down the middle, any place that
he wanted to throw it. And I think that was
Satchel's success.
Speaker 2 (16:14):
He also had a great personality, did he not. I've
heard that he was very.
Speaker 5 (16:18):
Funny, very very funny. Yeah he was. You know, I
don't know how much money Satchel was making, but some mornings,
like we were in Toronto or Montreal or someplace like that,
he always called me country boy. I came from Marshall, Missouri,
(16:38):
and he was from Kansas City, and he would call
me up say hey, country boy, you want something to
eat for breakfast?
Speaker 9 (16:47):
I said yeah, He.
Speaker 5 (16:48):
Said, well come on over, and I would go over
and he'd have a corn bee, pash poach days and
hash browns toes and all of that kind of stuff.
And I couldn't afford that kind of stuff, not on
my salary, but he could do it. And maybe six
(17:09):
or seven times while we were on a road trip,
that's what he would do. He would invite you over
to his room in the morning time to eat breakfast
with him.
Speaker 1 (17:21):
Picture. Don Woods remembers the first time he saw Satral
Page and the advice that Satchel Page gave it.
Speaker 2 (17:27):
Tell me about the first time you ever saw Satchel Page.
Speaker 7 (17:30):
Okay, the first time I met sech Is, which I
didn't realize until after. We had a conversation about some
of the things he has accomplished, and I realized then
that I'm in a company of somebody who's really one
of a king. He was a person that was was
(17:53):
one who knew what he was talking about, especially with baseball.
He was very confident, and I was really really impressed
with him, and to me saying to myself, here, I'm
sitting in the nug out next to this guy calls
at your page.
Speaker 2 (18:11):
What was the best piece of advice he ever gave you, Don.
Speaker 7 (18:14):
He told me one of the things I can recall
very well. He says, when you're pitching, never ever get nervous,
because your opponent you're better. They can tell if you're nervous.
Always take control of the game and know what you're doing,
and become confident when you're out there.
Speaker 2 (18:32):
You know, it's always been said about him, how fast
he was. And of course the great line is, I
think this came from his roommate said he was so
fast that when he turned off the light, he got
in bed before it got dark. But tell me, what
were the little things about him that made him special?
Speaker 4 (18:46):
Okay?
Speaker 7 (18:47):
I think that some of the things that he did
especially And I asked him, you know, I said, you
know such, I've read a lot of things about you
and statements they say that you've done over period of
over five decades that you've been playing baseball. And I
said that how much of that is true? He said,
let me tell you one thing. He says, any statement
(19:09):
I made, I had to proof those statements to make
sure it was correct. So he says, anything you read
about me is true.
Speaker 2 (19:19):
Everything I'm hearing. Everything I'm hearing about him is that
he had a sense of humor as well.
Speaker 7 (19:24):
Oh he was, he was, and I think that probably
made him as such a great ball player. He never,
to me, seemed to be tight, and he enjoyed the game.
Speaker 2 (19:37):
Do you remember any of the stories that he shared
with you that made you laugh?
Speaker 10 (19:41):
Oh?
Speaker 7 (19:41):
Yeah, he wanted The stories he told me was that
when he went to I forget exactly the location, but
he would always guarantee wherever he played, he was guaranteed
that the first six outs would be struckouts. In addition
to that, during mid during a h say, for instance,
(20:02):
a third inning went out, he would bring his outfielders
into the dugout, hel him sit down, and he would pitch,
and they could never get the ball out and outfield.
Speaker 5 (20:12):
Why was that?
Speaker 3 (20:13):
I mean?
Speaker 2 (20:13):
What was his pitches? What did he do with his throws?
Speaker 5 (20:16):
You know what?
Speaker 8 (20:17):
I think?
Speaker 7 (20:17):
What made him so great? He had pinpoint control. All
of his pinches, pitches were knee high. He can you know,
he could throw a ball over a match book with
no problem every time.
Speaker 2 (20:36):
By doing that, did the opposition the other players get
upset that maybe he was showing them up? Or was
that not a part of the baseball lore at that time?
Speaker 7 (20:44):
I think that they considered him as being someone above
level of everybody else, and they didn't make him man.
They were not mad, but in fact they were praising
him on the telling he had in a lot of
cases as oh old as he was playing against those
younger guys.
Speaker 2 (21:03):
Was there a game that you happened to witness personally
that you'll never forget that he pitched.
Speaker 7 (21:09):
Well. When he played with us, which was sixty three.
He was there as a show card. He played a
couple of innings and I know at that time he
was like fifty some years old, and the few better
that he faced, out of maybe six betters, he struck
(21:29):
out three of them. So he still had his speed,
he had still had his control, and he was just
something to see.
Speaker 2 (21:38):
Yeah, how old was he? Because there was always some
question about his age when he was playing, particularly later
in his career, Like you you just talked about.
Speaker 7 (21:46):
Yeah, well, there's always been a saying that nobody knew
exactly how old he was. So it said that he
was like, I guess when he finished playing, he was
like at the age of fifty five. I he said
something about he's who harder than anyone in his generation.
(22:09):
But the Rectors says that really, who knows how old
he was?
Speaker 1 (22:15):
Infielder Dennis Biddle closes out an episode by remembering some
of his heroes and his memory of meeting Shackie.
Speaker 12 (22:22):
Robinson, players like Ted double Do the Red Cliff. He
should have been in the Hall of Fame. He didn't
play in the Major League because he missed his calling.
Josh Johnson. He was a catcher for the home tirh grade.
When Josh Jeffson came in as a youngster, it took
his plate because he went to the military. Bobbie Robinson,
(22:47):
who was a human bathroom playing around third base, traveled
with me many years. Told me about Ty Cobb and
how time him in to car was good friend and
nobody liked call Cogs. That was the other players too.
(23:09):
I met Jackie in nineteen fifty five. Uh, God, just
came in and I was with the Cubs. I was
with the Cubs of the free agent and Jackie and
I had a dinner downtown Chicago.
Speaker 3 (23:23):
Not Jacket, just me.
Speaker 12 (23:25):
It was five of us heard the bank, Jean Baker, Rock, Cameron, Llen,
Nukelem didn't show up. But you know, and I often
talk about this because it's the highlight, one of the
highlights on my life, meeting Jacket. I had heard about him,
I read about him and things that he went through.
(23:45):
And here I am sitting across the table from him,
and he didn't look real to me. His hair was white,
and I I looked at him and he said, you know, kid,
He called me kid. They cannot write in a book
of showing a movie what I went through and see.
(24:08):
I knew what jack had gone through in the Negro
League and made the league too, because hey, I gone
through it myself and the Negro League many time.
Speaker 2 (24:16):
I wanted to go home to Mama.
Speaker 12 (24:19):
So I asked, mister Robinson, did you ever think about quitting?
Speaker 7 (24:24):
I did.
Speaker 12 (24:25):
He looked at me and said every day. He said,
I thought about it every day, But I have made
a problem that I would open the door so other
Blacks will be able to play in the Major League.
That's something mister Robinson told me that I'll always be here.
His wife was one hundred years old now as a
(24:46):
friend of mine. I have pictures of me and her
and I that woman had some curse. That knew the woman.
Speaker 3 (24:58):
I think.
Speaker 12 (25:01):
If he did some things that I don't. I don't
understand how she made it too, but she did. So
That's one of the highlights of my life meeting Jackie Robinson.
Of course I met a lot of other players. I
met Frank Robinson, and I met uh Well. Of course,
Willie made was one of us. Hank Erret and I
(25:22):
was good friends. But there was a lot of other players.
Buck Leonard should have been in the Hall of Fame.
He should be in the Hall of Fame.
Speaker 7 (25:32):
Uh.
Speaker 12 (25:34):
There are a lot of other players too. There was
a lot of players that I saw play, Sir. I
saw them play, unbelievable players. It was in the thirties
that would have been Hall of famers in the Major League,
but they never had a chance.
Speaker 11 (25:59):
Behind the Bear Voices from the Negro Leagues is narrated
by Bill Overton, produced by Taylor Haber. Executive producers are
Jason Wykehelp, Darren Peck, and Ron Barr.
Speaker 3 (26:11):
Please check out our.
Speaker 11 (26:13):
Next episode as well as the episodes in this series.
This series is distributed by Sports Byline USA and the
eight Side Network
Host
Bill Overton
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