October 31, 2023 • 26 mins
The former Negro League players remember the greats from their days in the the league. Some names are familiar, some were even unknown outside of the local clubs they played for, and some like Satchel Paige are remembered by all.
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Speaker 1 (00:07):
Hi, I'm Bill Overton. As our series is shown, there
were many great players from the Negro leagues, some that
we all know, like Jackie Robinson, Hank Aaron, Satrick Page,
and some unfortunately that only the players from that time remember.
Our episode today focuses on the players' memories of the
greats from the Negro League era. Hall of Famer Hank
(00:32):
Aaron remembers that the level of play in the Negro
Leagues offered players a chance to play in Major League baseball.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
When I think back and I've talked with Willie Mays
about the negro Leagues, how special that time was, What
was the cohesiveness, what was the general philosophy of the
players that played in the negro leagues?
Speaker 3 (00:52):
I think, Ron, I think that we all felt like
if we could be successful playing in the Negro League,
that we could probably play in the major leagues. All
of us basically felt that way because usually the players
that especially if you're a young player and you was
playing against players who had played a little bit longer
than you had. They had been in the some of
(01:13):
them had been in the minor league, some of them
had the experience of playing against great Negro League players,
so we all felt like if we could have a
good year, good season, that you had chance to play
in in the major leagues.
Speaker 1 (01:25):
Outfielder Gerald Casten even calls growing up watching the great
talent and then being able to play in the league himself.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
They had so many stars in that league who had
so much talent. You had an opportunity to see them
growing up, as well as when you played in the
league itself. How would you describe them?
Speaker 4 (01:43):
I was fad in thet Hot dedicated ballad. It was
just that at the time that you knew the coming
along there, it wasn't the right time. My mother used
to take the CD name of the league off back
in fifty four fifty five. He tag of lunch on Sunday,
they playing double hitters there. We went to see him.
(02:05):
I mean him be packed and those gas was really good.
But I had no idea one day I'll be playing
in there. You know, I always loved the playball. I
was pretty good in basketball. Uh then he'll be football.
And I know my baseball coach, and I may say
he in high school. His name was George Cartman. He
told me, he said, Castle you a goootball player. You
(02:28):
got a future in baseball. He said, let that football
coach in and the mother idious knock out they brain.
Speaker 5 (02:36):
So I quit.
Speaker 4 (02:38):
I had made the football team. So I told coach Tobin,
and I said, mister Coche want me to quit playing
because he want me to, you know, for the baseball team.
Fac I got a future in that. He said, you
wait out, I see go George.
Speaker 1 (02:51):
Here's pitcher Hank Mason remembering the great players that came
out of the Nagle leagues.
Speaker 5 (02:57):
Let me tell you this, some of the best baseball
players in the world come out of the Negro League.
And Kansas City Monarch sent more black baseball well they
had to be black, sent more baseball players to the
Major League than any other team in the Negro League,
(03:19):
or maybe all of them combined. There was Jackie Robertson,
Henry Mason, Poncho Herrera, Ernie Banks. All of those guys
came out of the Negro League, Hank Aaron of Winnie Mays.
All of those guys came out of the Negro League,
(03:40):
and they were great baseball player. Now I wasn't great,
but I didn't make it.
Speaker 1 (03:46):
Pitchure Eugene Scrogs recalls the style of play in the
Negro leagues and how it created stars like Willie Mace.
Speaker 2 (03:52):
All of them are very special baseball players. What was
it that they all did that made them so special?
Speaker 6 (03:58):
Eugene, Well, you know we were a made You know,
he could make some He made some some outstanding catches,
you know over his head, catch you that that you
never seen that around here.
Speaker 7 (04:11):
He could ruin, he could throw, and he was a
you know, all around ball player.
Speaker 1 (04:17):
Gerald Casten becalls the best pitcher that he ever caught
for during his time in the Negro leagues.
Speaker 2 (04:22):
You were a catcher who was the best pitcher that
you ever caught?
Speaker 4 (04:26):
Oh, I would say old Bulldog George Thomas. He was
about roommate in college too, and we played sadlo ball
in Chicago before we went to play foot our Blaby
the Colors every spyd those guys, they good fastball. I
don't know how the tab of bed, but now the
tab of ending the ninety ninety two ninety three with
Bulldog Man he had held back. I had ever a
(04:50):
sponge in my head and that catched me to catch.
Speaker 8 (04:53):
That guy pitcher.
Speaker 1 (04:55):
Eugene Scrugs. Remember striking out Negro League star Bob Wilson
three times in front of MLB scouts.
Speaker 2 (05:02):
You played against the Kansas City Monarchs, and one of
the Monarchs players was Bob Wilson, and he was really
looking forward to playing this particular game. Yeah, tell me
that about that game.
Speaker 7 (05:13):
Yeah, Bob, Bob Wilson, he was, Uh. He lives in
California now, so I was told because I haven't seen
him since the days in baseball. But this particular game
that we were playing in Grand redvn Uh, Bob. He
he come up to the bed three times and uh
(05:36):
so each time I scrubbed Bob out and he come
back and told me. Uh, he said, you know anything
he said, I said, I tried all I could to
hit that Ballay, but Dad talk as curveball, this I
could handle.
Speaker 2 (05:51):
And of course he was being scouted that day for
the major leagues? Was he not? And you he went
over three you struck him out three times?
Speaker 7 (05:59):
Yeah, he was. He was a his guy was all
understand he was. Maybe that's why that he had strug
him out, you know kind of I'm kind of there,
do you know somebody they're watching him?
Speaker 1 (06:11):
Catcherest Fan remembers being amazed at the level of talent
in the Negro leagues.
Speaker 8 (06:16):
Well, I tell you what. I was a young kid, fourteen,
fifteen years old, fifteen when I went in the Negro League,
and some of those guys like Dreams and the name
of Dreason went on to the majors. I got a
chance to see side of fits and I think, no,
(06:38):
I didn't see Josh Gipson. I read a book on
that way. He was talking about points about hitting. But
a lot of those guys, you know as a kid,
you don't remember. But the talent battle, Oh my goodness,
those guys could hit and run. I mean they could run.
I've seen guys were playing teams like the Birmingham Black
(07:01):
baron last game we played. They have two lead off men.
They and during that time we were young, we didn't
gonna think not Fundamental Couch got the lady ball at
our first baby. They thing, you know, they aren't standing
up on Burnley because nobody covers third and the title
we I mean, this is something we think it out
(07:22):
being kids. We'll sit there and watch the team. If
you don't cover that bay, we're gonna steal it. And
all the things that we learned in baseball. We have
coaches We just got out there and played and figured
it out ourselves. But as far as the guys that
I've seen, I've seen the greatest first day we ever
(07:44):
want to say. His name was James Ivory, played with
the Birmingham Black Bearon great son of philom Jessin Mitchell
and my manager played professional baseball. He was a three
party four hitter in triple late in professional baseball, and
he fell on the same patagory high bed they didn't have.
(08:06):
They had enough black pall on the team. Now, let
me mind remind you this was not a baseball rule.
This was a rule that the owners and the exec
executives sit down and made up the only two black
players to a team.
Speaker 1 (08:24):
Pitcher J. C. Casselebury recalls his teammates being the best
players he had seen, including a player who was valued
higher than Hank Garrett.
Speaker 8 (08:33):
Ja C.
Speaker 2 (08:33):
Let me ask you a little bit about the players
that you played against her you've witnessed and watched, because
the Negro League certainly had so many great You already
mentioned about Willie Mays and others like that Hank Aaron,
But tell me some of the other players that stood
out to you while you were playing either playing against
or playing with the guy.
Speaker 9 (08:52):
Well, the guy that stood out with me was most
of guys on my team, Joe Cherry. We picked him
up and Virginia Beach one Sunday.
Speaker 4 (09:03):
He was like me.
Speaker 9 (09:04):
He could catch, he could catch, he could play first page,
second base.
Speaker 8 (09:08):
Uh.
Speaker 9 (09:08):
As a matter of fact, when we played the Yanks,
stay and I caught him. Another guy was Van Rushing
out of Arizona. Van Rushing. I think they sold Hank
Aaron for twenty five thousand and they sold Van Rushing
for like fifty thousand. Varan Rushing was the only guy
that they sold for more money than than Hank Era.
(09:29):
And then we had another guy named uh kinda Getty shortstop.
Hecker was shortstop from New York City. And then we
had a guy by the name of Green shortstop. And
then we had double duty, who was the left and
right handed pitcher, and uh Carl Phony. Carl Phony, I
(09:49):
can't understand today why he didn't make it to the
major league because he had he was a pitcher, but
he had everything he had. He was throwing. Uh slaughtered
before slater were fashionable, and he had every pitch he threw, moved,
his fastball moved it jumped everything he do. Then that
(10:12):
was Bobby Deale, Bobby Miville and I played together in
Birmingham and the industrialate. Bobbyville threw so hard he the catcher.
We at big man. Bobbyville picked his hand through the
net in field.
Speaker 1 (10:27):
Original Howard recalls his memory of uncle Jim Taylor as
his manager.
Speaker 2 (10:32):
With your close friend, Candy, Jim Taylor, you alluded to
him a little bit earlier, legendary Negro league manager. Tell
me a little bit about his history.
Speaker 10 (10:40):
I loved Jim. Every baby, everybody, everybody called him Uncle Jim,
Oscar Charleston and Buck O'Neil, all young man's everybody called
him Uncle Jim. I don't know if I was as
close to Uncle Jim as a kid can be me
a child can be to you, old man. For some reason,
we hit it off. He comes through. I'm a black team.
(11:03):
Well I was hissit team bad Boss, all these black
teams that came in here in the South in the
play to play the Student to Tea and again I
met up with Jim when he when they came in
and we hit it off and swago Chicago periodic for
you to see him and and uh, in fact that
I worked the East West Game in nineteen forty six
forty seven, which is the All Star game. But he
(11:26):
was he was just he's just so much. I love
I to love him talk a long part. Oh he
could talk so bad.
Speaker 1 (11:33):
The most brought up name when asking about legends in
the Negro League was the Satchel Page. E. Lloyd Robinson
remembers Satchel's ability to make his pitches move.
Speaker 2 (11:44):
You mentioned about Satchel Page. That is the name, probably
along with Buck O'Neill and maybe a handful of others
that people remember most about the Negro League. Tell me
a little bit about him, because, aside from being nice,
tell me about his baseball skills.
Speaker 11 (11:57):
Oh, he could throw the bow leg lightning and they
didn't do nothing that went straight. And everything he throw
it went up down cross ways, aside ways or some
kind of way.
Speaker 8 (12:07):
He never he.
Speaker 11 (12:08):
Never throw a state price. Yeah he has. And Buck
Leonard hit the ball so hard and looked like he
was just throwing them up here.
Speaker 1 (12:16):
Number Reginald Howard also remembers the influence of Cool Papa
Bell and the work ethic of Satchel Page that made
him a highly paid player.
Speaker 2 (12:26):
Most people, if they know anything about the Negro legs,
know those last three names about uh you know, Coup,
Papa Bell and the others. Tell me about them. What
you know what was fact and what was fiction about him?
Speaker 4 (12:36):
Uh?
Speaker 10 (12:37):
I don't watch try to stay with more than fixtion
s off. I can't under stay with that, am I
heven discuss it? But uh, A lot like that's what
from Jimmy crush you. I don't know if you know
Jimmy was on that same team. He lived in the
same building my brother lived in Chicago, and every time
I go to Gago, I would just got to get
with him and spend as much time as I possibly could. Uh,
(12:58):
Jimmy And the one thing that was so outstanding about
Bail and I really admire for this. I've never heard
anybody echo or disparaging worry about him. The first class
gentleman all the way around. And I just I just
I really admire that so much.
Speaker 2 (13:16):
When it came to Satchel Page, you know, the great
line is that he was so fast that he could
turn out the light and he could get more.
Speaker 10 (13:22):
That's that's I don't even like to discuss that kind
of stuff. No, I'm not serious. I don't that's a
waste of time when we could do something meaningful that
said that other people get even we can get out
meaning for information and not throughout that kind of verbage.
Speaker 2 (13:38):
Well, when you say meaningful, tell me a little bit.
What's meaningful to you is somebody that played in the
negro leags.
Speaker 10 (13:44):
Well, let's take it from from a social standpoint of view.
Let's take let's take saxral page and this thing I
loved about Secha, A lot of people will lose. I
explained to you Lego League games being played three days
a week, Friday, Saturday and Sunday. Okay, let's Satchuo pitches
Saturday at Movemart Barton, Kansas City against the Memphis Red six,
(14:07):
and he pich was a good game. Or at Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday,
the fourth days is it turned again? But they're playing
somebody in uh Bloyd, Wisconsin. You know a little bit
of a barsom me now, just a little bit ahead
of a high school team. So why would they use
it wouldn't use a good pitcher on that day. However,
(14:28):
three weeks ahead of time, a team in minor in
North Dakota or in Rochester meet Rochester, Minnesota, say hey,
we want to hire Satcha for that day. I called
him a hire gun. And Satcha would go there and
pitch for that for that team on that on that
on that Wednesday. But he would pitch there. But then
he come back Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday they played in
(14:51):
Memphis Ballpark four in Satchul Pages Stitch. He did a
lot of that. He did a lot of leading the
club that he was with and go and pitch out
out out side of the Negro Leaf. And that's why
he was one of the highest plee players in baseball.
Speaker 1 (15:06):
Pitcher Hank Mason because his time playing with Satchel Page
and his ability to control his pitches, along with his
humor and kindness.
Speaker 5 (15:15):
Let me tell you I never played with Satchel in
the Negro League, but after I advanced to tripa a
baseball with the Miami Marlins, that's where I played with Sachel.
Sachel his strength was control. He could throw it about
(15:38):
any place that he wanted to throw it and as
hard as he wanted to throw it. If he wanted
to throw it on the outside corner, he could do.
I tell you what when we would go to the
book and Satchel and I were relief pitches. I was
a long man and he was a short man. And
(15:59):
Satchel could take a chewing gum wrapper and throw it
just right on the corner, down the middle, any place
that he wanted to throw it. And I think that
was Satchel's success.
Speaker 2 (16:14):
He also had a great personality, did he not. I've
heard that he was very funny, very very funny.
Speaker 5 (16:21):
Yeah, he was. You know, I don't know how much
money Satchel was making, but some mornings, like we were
in Toronto or Montreal or someplace like that, he always
called me country boy. I came from Marshall, Missouri, and
he was from Kansas City, and he would call me
(16:42):
up say, hey, country boy, you want something to eat
for breakfast? I said yeah, He said, well come on over,
and I would go over and he'd have a corn bee,
pash poach days and hash browns toes and all of
that kind of stuff. And I couldn't afford that kind
(17:02):
of stuff, not on my salary, but he could do it.
And maybe six or seven times while we were on
a road trip, that's what he would do. He would
invite you over to his room in the morning time
to eat breakfast with him.
Speaker 1 (17:21):
Picture. Don Woods remembers the first time he saw Satral
Page and the advice that Satchel Page gave it.
Speaker 2 (17:27):
Tell me about the first time you ever saw Satchel Page.
Speaker 12 (17:30):
Okay, the first time I met sech Is, which I
didn't realize until after. We had a conversation about some
of the things he has accomplished, and I realized then
that I'm in a company of somebody who's really one
of a king. He was a person that was was
(17:53):
one who knew what he was talking about, especially with baseball.
He was very confident, and I was really really impressed
with him, and to me saying to myself, here, I'm
sitting in the nug out next to this guy calls
at your page.
Speaker 2 (18:11):
What was the best piece of advice he ever gave you, Don.
Speaker 12 (18:14):
He told me one of the things I can recall
very well. He says, when you're pitching, never ever get nervous,
because your opponent you're better. They can tell if you're nervous.
Always take control of the game and know what you're doing,
and become confident when you're out there.
Speaker 2 (18:32):
You know, it's always been said about him, how fast
he was, And of course the great line is, I
think this came from his roommate, said he was so
fast that when he turned off the light, he got
in bed before it got dark. But tell me, what
were the little things about him that made him special?
Speaker 4 (18:46):
Okay?
Speaker 12 (18:47):
I think that some of the things that he did especially,
And I asked him, you know, I said, you know, such,
I've read a lot of things about you, and statements
they say that you've done over peered of over five
decades that you've been playing baseball. And I said that
how much of that is true? He said, let me
tell you one thing. He says, any statement I made,
(19:10):
I had to proof those statements to make sure it
was correct. So he says, anything you read about me
is true.
Speaker 2 (19:19):
Everything I'm hearing, everything I'm hearing about him is is
that he had a sense of humor as well.
Speaker 12 (19:24):
Oh he was, he was, and I think that probably
made him as such a great ball player. He never,
to me, seemed to be tight, and he enjoyed the game.
Speaker 2 (19:37):
Do you remember any of the stories that he shared
with you that made you laugh?
Speaker 4 (19:41):
Oh?
Speaker 5 (19:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 12 (19:42):
He One of the stories he told me was that
when he went to I forget exactly the location, but
he would always guarantee wherever he played, he was guaranteed
that the first six outs would be struckouts. In addition
to that, during mid during a say, for instance, a
(20:03):
third inning went out, he would bring his outfielders into
the dog out, hel him sit down, and he would
pitch and they could never get the ball out in
off field.
Speaker 2 (20:12):
Why was that? I mean, what was his pitches? What
did he do with his throws?
Speaker 4 (20:16):
You know what?
Speaker 8 (20:17):
I think?
Speaker 12 (20:17):
What made him so great? He had pinpoint control. All
of his pinches, pitches were knee high. He can you
know he could throw a ball over a match book
with no problem every time.
Speaker 2 (20:36):
By doing that, did the opposition the other players get
upset that maybe he was showing them up? Or was
that not a part of the baseball lore at that time?
Speaker 12 (20:44):
I think that they considered him as being someone above
level of everybody else, and they didn't make him man.
They were not mad, but in fact they were praising
him on the telling he had in a lot of
cases as oh old as he was playing against those
younger guys.
Speaker 2 (21:03):
Was there a game that you happened to witness personally
that you'll never forget that he pitched.
Speaker 4 (21:09):
Well.
Speaker 12 (21:09):
When he played with us, which was sixty three. He
was there as a show card. He played a couple
of innings, and I know at that time he was
like fifty some years old, and the few better that
he faced, out of maybe six betters, he struck out
(21:30):
three of them. So he still had his speed, he
had still had his control, and he was just something
to see.
Speaker 2 (21:38):
Yeah, how old was he? Because there was always some
question about his age when he was playing, particularly later
in his career, Like you you just talked about.
Speaker 12 (21:46):
Yeah, well, there's always been a saying that nobody knew
exactly how old he was. So it said that he
was like I guess when he finished playing, he was
like at the age of fifty five. I said something
about he's who harder than anyone in his generation. But
(22:10):
the Rectors says that really, who knows how old he was?
Speaker 1 (22:15):
Infielder Dennis Biddle closes out an episode by remembering some
of his heroes and his memory of meeting Shackie.
Speaker 13 (22:22):
Robinson, players like Ted double Do the Red Cliff. He
should have been in the Hall of Fame. He didn't
play in the Major League because he missed his calling
Josh Johnson. He was a catcher for the home tirh grade.
When Josh Jeffson came in as a youngster, it took
his place because he went to the military. Bobbie Robinson,
(22:47):
who was a human bathroom playing around third base, traveled
with me many years. Told me about Ty Cobb and
I talk him in to car was a good friend
and nobody liked caught Cobs. That was other players too.
(23:09):
I met Jackie in nineteen fifty five, U God just
came in and I was with the Cubs. I was
with the Cubs of the Free Agent and Jackie and
I had a dinner downtown Chicago. Not Jacket, just me.
It was five of us, Herd, the Bank, Jean Baker, Rock, Cameron, Llo,
(23:30):
Nukelem didn't show up. But you know, and I often
talk about this because it's the highlight, one of the
highlights on my life meeting Jacket. I had heard about him,
I read about him and things that he went through.
And here I am sitting across the table from him,
and he didn't look real to me. His hair was white,
(23:54):
and I I looked at him and he said, you know, kid,
He called me kid. They cannot write in a book
of showing a movie what I went through.
Speaker 10 (24:06):
And see.
Speaker 13 (24:08):
I knew what jack had gone through in the Negro
League and made the league too, because hey, I gone
through it myself and the Negro League many time. I
wanted to go home to Mama. So I asked, mister Robinson,
did you ever think about quitning I did. He looked
at me and said every day. He said, I thought
(24:29):
about it every day, But I have made a problem
that I would open the door so other blacks will
be able to play in the Major League. That's something
mister Robinson told me that I'll always be here. His
wife was one hundred years old now as a friend
of mine, I have pictures of me and her and
(24:53):
I that woman had some curse. That knew the woman.
I think if he did some things that I don't.
I don't understand how she made it too, but she did.
So That's one of the highlights of my life meeting
Jackie Robinson. Of course I met a lot of other players.
(25:16):
I met Frank Robinson, and I met h Well. Of course,
Willie made was one of us. Hank Erret and I
was good friends. But there was a lot of other players.
Buck Leonard should have been in the Hall of Fame.
He should be in the Hall of Fame.
Speaker 12 (25:32):
Uh.
Speaker 13 (25:34):
There are a lot of other players too. There was
a lot of players that I saw play, Sir. I
saw them play, unbelievable players. It was in that thirties
that would have been Hall of famers in the Major League,
but they never had a.
Speaker 14 (25:50):
Chair behind the bear voices from the Negro Leagues is
narrated by Bill Overton, produced by Taylor Haber. Executive producers
are Jason Wykelp, Darren Peck, and Ron Barr. Please check
(26:12):
out our next episode as well as the episodes in
this series. This series is distributed by Sports Byline USA
and the eight Side Network
Hi, I'm Bill Overton. As our series is shown, there
were many great players from the Negro leagues, some that
we all know, like Jackie Robinson, Hank Aaron, Satrick Page,
and some unfortunately that only the players from that time remember.
Our episode today focuses on the players' memories of the
greats from the Negro League era. Hall of Famer Hank
(00:32):
Aaron remembers that the level of play in the Negro
Leagues offered players a chance to play in Major League baseball.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
When I think back and I've talked with Willie Mays
about the negro Leagues, how special that time was, What
was the cohesiveness, what was the general philosophy of the
players that played in the negro leagues?
Speaker 3 (00:52):
I think, Ron, I think that we all felt like
if we could be successful playing in the Negro League,
that we could probably play in the major leagues. All
of us basically felt that way because usually the players
that especially if you're a young player and you was
playing against players who had played a little bit longer
than you had. They had been in the some of
(01:13):
them had been in the minor league, some of them
had the experience of playing against great Negro League players,
so we all felt like if we could have a
good year, good season, that you had chance to play
in in the major leagues.
Speaker 1 (01:25):
Outfielder Gerald Casten even calls growing up watching the great
talent and then being able to play in the league himself.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
They had so many stars in that league who had
so much talent. You had an opportunity to see them
growing up, as well as when you played in the
league itself. How would you describe them?
Speaker 4 (01:43):
I was fad in thet Hot dedicated ballad. It was
just that at the time that you knew the coming
along there, it wasn't the right time. My mother used
to take the CD name of the league off back
in fifty four fifty five. He tag of lunch on Sunday,
they playing double hitters there. We went to see him.
(02:05):
I mean him be packed and those gas was really good.
But I had no idea one day I'll be playing
in there. You know, I always loved the playball. I
was pretty good in basketball. Uh then he'll be football.
And I know my baseball coach, and I may say
he in high school. His name was George Cartman. He
told me, he said, Castle you a goootball player. You
(02:28):
got a future in baseball. He said, let that football
coach in and the mother idious knock out they brain.
Speaker 5 (02:36):
So I quit.
Speaker 4 (02:38):
I had made the football team. So I told coach Tobin,
and I said, mister Coche want me to quit playing
because he want me to, you know, for the baseball team.
Fac I got a future in that. He said, you
wait out, I see go George.
Speaker 1 (02:51):
Here's pitcher Hank Mason remembering the great players that came
out of the Nagle leagues.
Speaker 5 (02:57):
Let me tell you this, some of the best baseball
players in the world come out of the Negro League.
And Kansas City Monarch sent more black baseball well they
had to be black, sent more baseball players to the
Major League than any other team in the Negro League,
(03:19):
or maybe all of them combined. There was Jackie Robertson,
Henry Mason, Poncho Herrera, Ernie Banks. All of those guys
came out of the Negro League, Hank Aaron of Winnie Mays.
All of those guys came out of the Negro League,
(03:40):
and they were great baseball player. Now I wasn't great,
but I didn't make it.
Speaker 1 (03:46):
Pitchure Eugene Scrogs recalls the style of play in the
Negro leagues and how it created stars like Willie Mace.
Speaker 2 (03:52):
All of them are very special baseball players. What was
it that they all did that made them so special?
Speaker 6 (03:58):
Eugene, Well, you know we were a made You know,
he could make some He made some some outstanding catches,
you know over his head, catch you that that you
never seen that around here.
Speaker 7 (04:11):
He could ruin, he could throw, and he was a
you know, all around ball player.
Speaker 1 (04:17):
Gerald Casten becalls the best pitcher that he ever caught
for during his time in the Negro leagues.
Speaker 2 (04:22):
You were a catcher who was the best pitcher that
you ever caught?
Speaker 4 (04:26):
Oh, I would say old Bulldog George Thomas. He was
about roommate in college too, and we played sadlo ball
in Chicago before we went to play foot our Blaby
the Colors every spyd those guys, they good fastball. I
don't know how the tab of bed, but now the
tab of ending the ninety ninety two ninety three with
Bulldog Man he had held back. I had ever a
(04:50):
sponge in my head and that catched me to catch.
Speaker 8 (04:53):
That guy pitcher.
Speaker 1 (04:55):
Eugene Scrugs. Remember striking out Negro League star Bob Wilson
three times in front of MLB scouts.
Speaker 2 (05:02):
You played against the Kansas City Monarchs, and one of
the Monarchs players was Bob Wilson, and he was really
looking forward to playing this particular game. Yeah, tell me
that about that game.
Speaker 7 (05:13):
Yeah, Bob, Bob Wilson, he was, Uh. He lives in
California now, so I was told because I haven't seen
him since the days in baseball. But this particular game
that we were playing in Grand redvn Uh, Bob. He
he come up to the bed three times and uh
(05:36):
so each time I scrubbed Bob out and he come
back and told me. Uh, he said, you know anything
he said, I said, I tried all I could to
hit that Ballay, but Dad talk as curveball, this I
could handle.
Speaker 2 (05:51):
And of course he was being scouted that day for
the major leagues? Was he not? And you he went
over three you struck him out three times?
Speaker 7 (05:59):
Yeah, he was. He was a his guy was all
understand he was. Maybe that's why that he had strug
him out, you know kind of I'm kind of there,
do you know somebody they're watching him?
Speaker 1 (06:11):
Catcherest Fan remembers being amazed at the level of talent
in the Negro leagues.
Speaker 8 (06:16):
Well, I tell you what. I was a young kid, fourteen,
fifteen years old, fifteen when I went in the Negro League,
and some of those guys like Dreams and the name
of Dreason went on to the majors. I got a
chance to see side of fits and I think, no,
(06:38):
I didn't see Josh Gipson. I read a book on
that way. He was talking about points about hitting. But
a lot of those guys, you know as a kid,
you don't remember. But the talent battle, Oh my goodness,
those guys could hit and run. I mean they could run.
I've seen guys were playing teams like the Birmingham Black
(07:01):
baron last game we played. They have two lead off men.
They and during that time we were young, we didn't
gonna think not Fundamental Couch got the lady ball at
our first baby. They thing, you know, they aren't standing
up on Burnley because nobody covers third and the title
we I mean, this is something we think it out
(07:22):
being kids. We'll sit there and watch the team. If
you don't cover that bay, we're gonna steal it. And
all the things that we learned in baseball. We have
coaches We just got out there and played and figured
it out ourselves. But as far as the guys that
I've seen, I've seen the greatest first day we ever
(07:44):
want to say. His name was James Ivory, played with
the Birmingham Black Bearon great son of philom Jessin Mitchell
and my manager played professional baseball. He was a three
party four hitter in triple late in professional baseball, and
he fell on the same patagory high bed they didn't have.
(08:06):
They had enough black pall on the team. Now, let
me mind remind you this was not a baseball rule.
This was a rule that the owners and the exec
executives sit down and made up the only two black
players to a team.
Speaker 1 (08:24):
Pitcher J. C. Casselebury recalls his teammates being the best
players he had seen, including a player who was valued
higher than Hank Garrett.
Speaker 8 (08:33):
Ja C.
Speaker 2 (08:33):
Let me ask you a little bit about the players
that you played against her you've witnessed and watched, because
the Negro League certainly had so many great You already
mentioned about Willie Mays and others like that Hank Aaron,
But tell me some of the other players that stood
out to you while you were playing either playing against
or playing with the guy.
Speaker 9 (08:52):
Well, the guy that stood out with me was most
of guys on my team, Joe Cherry. We picked him
up and Virginia Beach one Sunday.
Speaker 4 (09:03):
He was like me.
Speaker 9 (09:04):
He could catch, he could catch, he could play first page,
second base.
Speaker 8 (09:08):
Uh.
Speaker 9 (09:08):
As a matter of fact, when we played the Yanks,
stay and I caught him. Another guy was Van Rushing
out of Arizona. Van Rushing. I think they sold Hank
Aaron for twenty five thousand and they sold Van Rushing
for like fifty thousand. Varan Rushing was the only guy
that they sold for more money than than Hank Era.
(09:29):
And then we had another guy named uh kinda Getty shortstop.
Hecker was shortstop from New York City. And then we
had a guy by the name of Green shortstop. And
then we had double duty, who was the left and
right handed pitcher, and uh Carl Phony. Carl Phony, I
(09:49):
can't understand today why he didn't make it to the
major league because he had he was a pitcher, but
he had everything he had. He was throwing. Uh slaughtered
before slater were fashionable, and he had every pitch he threw, moved,
his fastball moved it jumped everything he do. Then that
(10:12):
was Bobby Deale, Bobby Miville and I played together in
Birmingham and the industrialate. Bobbyville threw so hard he the catcher.
We at big man. Bobbyville picked his hand through the
net in field.
Speaker 1 (10:27):
Original Howard recalls his memory of uncle Jim Taylor as
his manager.
Speaker 2 (10:32):
With your close friend, Candy, Jim Taylor, you alluded to
him a little bit earlier, legendary Negro league manager. Tell
me a little bit about his history.
Speaker 10 (10:40):
I loved Jim. Every baby, everybody, everybody called him Uncle Jim,
Oscar Charleston and Buck O'Neil, all young man's everybody called
him Uncle Jim. I don't know if I was as
close to Uncle Jim as a kid can be me
a child can be to you, old man. For some reason,
we hit it off. He comes through. I'm a black team.
(11:03):
Well I was hissit team bad Boss, all these black
teams that came in here in the South in the
play to play the Student to Tea and again I
met up with Jim when he when they came in
and we hit it off and swago Chicago periodic for
you to see him and and uh, in fact that
I worked the East West Game in nineteen forty six
forty seven, which is the All Star game. But he
(11:26):
was he was just he's just so much. I love
I to love him talk a long part. Oh he
could talk so bad.
Speaker 1 (11:33):
The most brought up name when asking about legends in
the Negro League was the Satchel Page. E. Lloyd Robinson
remembers Satchel's ability to make his pitches move.
Speaker 2 (11:44):
You mentioned about Satchel Page. That is the name, probably
along with Buck O'Neill and maybe a handful of others
that people remember most about the Negro League. Tell me
a little bit about him, because, aside from being nice,
tell me about his baseball skills.
Speaker 11 (11:57):
Oh, he could throw the bow leg lightning and they
didn't do nothing that went straight. And everything he throw
it went up down cross ways, aside ways or some
kind of way.
Speaker 8 (12:07):
He never he.
Speaker 11 (12:08):
Never throw a state price. Yeah he has. And Buck
Leonard hit the ball so hard and looked like he
was just throwing them up here.
Speaker 1 (12:16):
Number Reginald Howard also remembers the influence of Cool Papa
Bell and the work ethic of Satchel Page that made
him a highly paid player.
Speaker 2 (12:26):
Most people, if they know anything about the Negro legs,
know those last three names about uh you know, Coup,
Papa Bell and the others. Tell me about them. What
you know what was fact and what was fiction about him?
Speaker 4 (12:36):
Uh?
Speaker 10 (12:37):
I don't watch try to stay with more than fixtion
s off. I can't under stay with that, am I
heven discuss it? But uh, A lot like that's what
from Jimmy crush you. I don't know if you know
Jimmy was on that same team. He lived in the
same building my brother lived in Chicago, and every time
I go to Gago, I would just got to get
with him and spend as much time as I possibly could. Uh,
(12:58):
Jimmy And the one thing that was so outstanding about
Bail and I really admire for this. I've never heard
anybody echo or disparaging worry about him. The first class
gentleman all the way around. And I just I just
I really admire that so much.
Speaker 2 (13:16):
When it came to Satchel Page, you know, the great
line is that he was so fast that he could
turn out the light and he could get more.
Speaker 10 (13:22):
That's that's I don't even like to discuss that kind
of stuff. No, I'm not serious. I don't that's a
waste of time when we could do something meaningful that
said that other people get even we can get out
meaning for information and not throughout that kind of verbage.
Speaker 2 (13:38):
Well, when you say meaningful, tell me a little bit.
What's meaningful to you is somebody that played in the
negro leags.
Speaker 10 (13:44):
Well, let's take it from from a social standpoint of view.
Let's take let's take saxral page and this thing I
loved about Secha, A lot of people will lose. I
explained to you Lego League games being played three days
a week, Friday, Saturday and Sunday. Okay, let's Satchuo pitches
Saturday at Movemart Barton, Kansas City against the Memphis Red six,
(14:07):
and he pich was a good game. Or at Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday,
the fourth days is it turned again? But they're playing
somebody in uh Bloyd, Wisconsin. You know a little bit
of a barsom me now, just a little bit ahead
of a high school team. So why would they use
it wouldn't use a good pitcher on that day. However,
(14:28):
three weeks ahead of time, a team in minor in
North Dakota or in Rochester meet Rochester, Minnesota, say hey,
we want to hire Satcha for that day. I called
him a hire gun. And Satcha would go there and
pitch for that for that team on that on that
on that Wednesday. But he would pitch there. But then
he come back Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday they played in
(14:51):
Memphis Ballpark four in Satchul Pages Stitch. He did a
lot of that. He did a lot of leading the
club that he was with and go and pitch out
out out side of the Negro Leaf. And that's why
he was one of the highest plee players in baseball.
Speaker 1 (15:06):
Pitcher Hank Mason because his time playing with Satchel Page
and his ability to control his pitches, along with his
humor and kindness.
Speaker 5 (15:15):
Let me tell you I never played with Satchel in
the Negro League, but after I advanced to tripa a
baseball with the Miami Marlins, that's where I played with Sachel.
Sachel his strength was control. He could throw it about
(15:38):
any place that he wanted to throw it and as
hard as he wanted to throw it. If he wanted
to throw it on the outside corner, he could do.
I tell you what when we would go to the
book and Satchel and I were relief pitches. I was
a long man and he was a short man. And
(15:59):
Satchel could take a chewing gum wrapper and throw it
just right on the corner, down the middle, any place
that he wanted to throw it. And I think that
was Satchel's success.
Speaker 2 (16:14):
He also had a great personality, did he not. I've
heard that he was very funny, very very funny.
Speaker 5 (16:21):
Yeah, he was. You know, I don't know how much
money Satchel was making, but some mornings, like we were
in Toronto or Montreal or someplace like that, he always
called me country boy. I came from Marshall, Missouri, and
he was from Kansas City, and he would call me
(16:42):
up say, hey, country boy, you want something to eat
for breakfast? I said yeah, He said, well come on over,
and I would go over and he'd have a corn bee,
pash poach days and hash browns toes and all of
that kind of stuff. And I couldn't afford that kind
(17:02):
of stuff, not on my salary, but he could do it.
And maybe six or seven times while we were on
a road trip, that's what he would do. He would
invite you over to his room in the morning time
to eat breakfast with him.
Speaker 1 (17:21):
Picture. Don Woods remembers the first time he saw Satral
Page and the advice that Satchel Page gave it.
Speaker 2 (17:27):
Tell me about the first time you ever saw Satchel Page.
Speaker 12 (17:30):
Okay, the first time I met sech Is, which I
didn't realize until after. We had a conversation about some
of the things he has accomplished, and I realized then
that I'm in a company of somebody who's really one
of a king. He was a person that was was
(17:53):
one who knew what he was talking about, especially with baseball.
He was very confident, and I was really really impressed
with him, and to me saying to myself, here, I'm
sitting in the nug out next to this guy calls
at your page.
Speaker 2 (18:11):
What was the best piece of advice he ever gave you, Don.
Speaker 12 (18:14):
He told me one of the things I can recall
very well. He says, when you're pitching, never ever get nervous,
because your opponent you're better. They can tell if you're nervous.
Always take control of the game and know what you're doing,
and become confident when you're out there.
Speaker 2 (18:32):
You know, it's always been said about him, how fast
he was, And of course the great line is, I
think this came from his roommate, said he was so
fast that when he turned off the light, he got
in bed before it got dark. But tell me, what
were the little things about him that made him special?
Speaker 4 (18:46):
Okay?
Speaker 12 (18:47):
I think that some of the things that he did especially,
And I asked him, you know, I said, you know, such,
I've read a lot of things about you, and statements
they say that you've done over peered of over five
decades that you've been playing baseball. And I said that
how much of that is true? He said, let me
tell you one thing. He says, any statement I made,
(19:10):
I had to proof those statements to make sure it
was correct. So he says, anything you read about me
is true.
Speaker 2 (19:19):
Everything I'm hearing, everything I'm hearing about him is is
that he had a sense of humor as well.
Speaker 12 (19:24):
Oh he was, he was, and I think that probably
made him as such a great ball player. He never,
to me, seemed to be tight, and he enjoyed the game.
Speaker 2 (19:37):
Do you remember any of the stories that he shared
with you that made you laugh?
Speaker 4 (19:41):
Oh?
Speaker 5 (19:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 12 (19:42):
He One of the stories he told me was that
when he went to I forget exactly the location, but
he would always guarantee wherever he played, he was guaranteed
that the first six outs would be struckouts. In addition
to that, during mid during a say, for instance, a
(20:03):
third inning went out, he would bring his outfielders into
the dog out, hel him sit down, and he would
pitch and they could never get the ball out in
off field.
Speaker 2 (20:12):
Why was that? I mean, what was his pitches? What
did he do with his throws?
Speaker 4 (20:16):
You know what?
Speaker 8 (20:17):
I think?
Speaker 12 (20:17):
What made him so great? He had pinpoint control. All
of his pinches, pitches were knee high. He can you
know he could throw a ball over a match book
with no problem every time.
Speaker 2 (20:36):
By doing that, did the opposition the other players get
upset that maybe he was showing them up? Or was
that not a part of the baseball lore at that time?
Speaker 12 (20:44):
I think that they considered him as being someone above
level of everybody else, and they didn't make him man.
They were not mad, but in fact they were praising
him on the telling he had in a lot of
cases as oh old as he was playing against those
younger guys.
Speaker 2 (21:03):
Was there a game that you happened to witness personally
that you'll never forget that he pitched.
Speaker 4 (21:09):
Well.
Speaker 12 (21:09):
When he played with us, which was sixty three. He
was there as a show card. He played a couple
of innings, and I know at that time he was
like fifty some years old, and the few better that
he faced, out of maybe six betters, he struck out
(21:30):
three of them. So he still had his speed, he
had still had his control, and he was just something
to see.
Speaker 2 (21:38):
Yeah, how old was he? Because there was always some
question about his age when he was playing, particularly later
in his career, Like you you just talked about.
Speaker 12 (21:46):
Yeah, well, there's always been a saying that nobody knew
exactly how old he was. So it said that he
was like I guess when he finished playing, he was
like at the age of fifty five. I said something
about he's who harder than anyone in his generation. But
(22:10):
the Rectors says that really, who knows how old he was?
Speaker 1 (22:15):
Infielder Dennis Biddle closes out an episode by remembering some
of his heroes and his memory of meeting Shackie.
Speaker 13 (22:22):
Robinson, players like Ted double Do the Red Cliff. He
should have been in the Hall of Fame. He didn't
play in the Major League because he missed his calling
Josh Johnson. He was a catcher for the home tirh grade.
When Josh Jeffson came in as a youngster, it took
his place because he went to the military. Bobbie Robinson,
(22:47):
who was a human bathroom playing around third base, traveled
with me many years. Told me about Ty Cobb and
I talk him in to car was a good friend
and nobody liked caught Cobs. That was other players too.
(23:09):
I met Jackie in nineteen fifty five, U God just
came in and I was with the Cubs. I was
with the Cubs of the Free Agent and Jackie and
I had a dinner downtown Chicago. Not Jacket, just me.
It was five of us, Herd, the Bank, Jean Baker, Rock, Cameron, Llo,
(23:30):
Nukelem didn't show up. But you know, and I often
talk about this because it's the highlight, one of the
highlights on my life meeting Jacket. I had heard about him,
I read about him and things that he went through.
And here I am sitting across the table from him,
and he didn't look real to me. His hair was white,
(23:54):
and I I looked at him and he said, you know, kid,
He called me kid. They cannot write in a book
of showing a movie what I went through.
Speaker 10 (24:06):
And see.
Speaker 13 (24:08):
I knew what jack had gone through in the Negro
League and made the league too, because hey, I gone
through it myself and the Negro League many time. I
wanted to go home to Mama. So I asked, mister Robinson,
did you ever think about quitning I did. He looked
at me and said every day. He said, I thought
(24:29):
about it every day, But I have made a problem
that I would open the door so other blacks will
be able to play in the Major League. That's something
mister Robinson told me that I'll always be here. His
wife was one hundred years old now as a friend
of mine, I have pictures of me and her and
(24:53):
I that woman had some curse. That knew the woman.
I think if he did some things that I don't.
I don't understand how she made it too, but she did.
So That's one of the highlights of my life meeting
Jackie Robinson. Of course I met a lot of other players.
(25:16):
I met Frank Robinson, and I met h Well. Of course,
Willie made was one of us. Hank Erret and I
was good friends. But there was a lot of other players.
Buck Leonard should have been in the Hall of Fame.
He should be in the Hall of Fame.
Speaker 12 (25:32):
Uh.
Speaker 13 (25:34):
There are a lot of other players too. There was
a lot of players that I saw play, Sir. I
saw them play, unbelievable players. It was in that thirties
that would have been Hall of famers in the Major League,
but they never had a.
Speaker 14 (25:50):
Chair behind the bear voices from the Negro Leagues is
narrated by Bill Overton, produced by Taylor Haber. Executive producers
are Jason Wykelp, Darren Peck, and Ron Barr. Please check
(26:12):
out our next episode as well as the episodes in
this series. This series is distributed by Sports Byline USA
and the eight Side Network
Host
Bill Overton
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