March 21, 2023 • 21 mins
Each player in the Negro Leagues developed into a professional player through different paths. For a lucky few, organized baseball helped them rise, however for most the love of the game, the ability to play many positions, and sometimes luck were the development path for most Negro League players. Common to all players was learning from the older veterans as a key to success.
Narrated by Bill Overton
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
Hi, I'm Bill Overton, and we continue our series with
our second episode, which centers around how players from the
Negro leagues developed into professional baseball. Some players were able
to take advantage of organized baseball in high school or
organized league play in the cities they grew up in.
Most of though, use their athletic skill and love of
(00:30):
the game to reach professional levels in their teenage years.
Imagine playing professional baseball when you were fifteen or sixty
eight years old, a combination of mostly self taught skills,
love of the game, and advice and knowledge from older
players with the building blocks of the professional Negro league players.
(00:55):
Here's Ron Barr from Sports Byline USA talking with pitcher
Linio Westbrook about his early years playing baseball.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
Willie Mays is a friend of mine, and I remember
talking to Willie about the Negro Legs and he was
saying he was sixteen years old and he was playing
professional baseball with the Birmingham Black Bearons at that particular time,
and I'm just wondering, that's amazing to think that all
these players when they were sixteen, seventeen, even younger fifteen
years old, were playing professional baseball.
Speaker 3 (01:24):
You know, I was playing with lots of full grown
men at the age of probably fourteen and fifteen years old,
and we were it was a mixture of thirteen and
fourteen year old kids like myself, my brother and others
that was playing, like I said, playing with these grown
(01:46):
up someonem probably in their thirties and maybe forties, and
they were very good ball players. But we was able
to compete. And I remember when I came here at
seven team it was uh in the Chicago area. It
was almost like a class A double A baseball.
Speaker 4 (02:08):
You know.
Speaker 3 (02:09):
And immediately after I got here, it was a team
by the name of the Chicago Cardinals, mister Thomas. And as
soon as I got here and he had me to
go out and pitch, and I wondered, I said, well,
I'm not sure how I'm going to fare out here,
because these guys probably have much more experience than I have.
(02:31):
But I was able to go out there and compete,
and it turned out that I ended up being his
number one pitcher.
Speaker 1 (02:40):
Former catcher and pitcher Ernest Fan remembers that they would
do anything to find a way to play baseball.
Speaker 5 (02:46):
When he was young, we didn't have any day, a
short paint, barefood, won't think of the tennon ball or
whatever kind of stick we can shape like a bat,
and we would be out there all day on a Saturday.
We couldn't go out there on sunny because my mother
lad us go to church. But that's how I learned
(03:11):
how to play baseball.
Speaker 1 (03:13):
Pitcher Don Woods recalls that the talent level was extremely
high even when he was young.
Speaker 6 (03:20):
Well, I tell you what happened, especially with the players
of my age. We were the players that played day
and night. We went out on the summertime, played early
in the morning all the way into the evening. In
the community in which I lived. I felt that quite
a few of them were very athletic and possibly possibly
(03:42):
could have been a focal point in the Major League
and trying to make their niche into the baseball game.
Speaker 1 (03:51):
Down was one of the few who was able to
rise and organize the youth leagues.
Speaker 6 (03:56):
It was pretty popular where I was. They had a
a Woodland Boys Club who had a league and there
were maybe eight or nine teams who competed at the
high school level. There was a teams from different sections
of the city who competed for a city wide championship
(04:17):
and went on to represent Chicago and various other entities
throughout Chicago Land area.
Speaker 1 (04:25):
Many others had to learn the game to unorthodox needs,
especially in the South. Here again is Leo Westbrook.
Speaker 3 (04:34):
Was able to do things with the white kids and adults.
And I'll tell you this story real quick. We lived
in the country, you know, a good while early on,
and the first football, baseball, and basketball I ever touched
(04:54):
was a young white boy that lived u over from us.
His parents own the plantation, and his mother and father
they allowed us to come over and play. Jim Corter,
and his sister was Kate. They allowed us to come
over and play with uh with him anytime we wanted to,
(05:16):
and we was able to.
Speaker 4 (05:18):
We had was at liberty to do whatever we wanted
to do as long.
Speaker 3 (05:23):
As we've been what young kid's supposed to do.
Speaker 6 (05:27):
And I never forget.
Speaker 3 (05:28):
This is the thing I remember the most. We had
played outside for quite a while and it was hot
and we Jim said, well it's time for us get
a break. Let's go in and get some something cold
to drink. He said, We said, okay, So we headed
to the back door. He said, where are you all going?
He said, We're going to the back to he said,
(05:50):
I know for what we told him. Said, well, Jim,
we don't know that. You know, it's proper for us
to come to He said, Look, Leo and Joe, as
long as you are here playing with us, this is
totally appropriate. And I don't ever want to see you
guys heating to the back door, not here. So uh,
(06:14):
and I tried to look him up and let him
know how things, what he'd done, what part had played
with my brother and I, what we'd done after we
left the South. So because he became he didn't play
professional baseball, but he became a lieutenant police force and
(06:35):
a chief of police in a small town in the
suburbs of Dalton. So I just wanted him to know
that what he'd done for us didn't go to waste.
You know, in the country we played, there were what
they called sandlot baseball teams around the country, and that
(06:58):
was the height of a baseball playing in the South.
So from what I understand that, uh, some businessman's got
together and put together some teams that turned out to
be the Messag's Red Sox at Birmingham Black Barons and
(07:19):
Cancer City monox On and on and from that baseball, Uh,
began to grow, and we didn't have no coaches of
managers that had any experience in baseball, but we was
able to get our knowledge from some of the older
guys that I guess they just kind of learned it
(07:41):
on their own. And and that's how we really got started.
And that was the pretty much a big thing, you
know down there that uh satellite baseball playing out in
those pastures and different wherever they did enough land.
Speaker 1 (08:03):
As Leo mentioned, many of the players relied on the older,
more experienced players to teach them the finer points of
the game and about life. He is Dennis Biddle, former
pitcher in head of yesterday's Negro League Baseball Players organization,
remembering the influence of the older players.
Speaker 7 (08:22):
I looked back and I said, we were like the kids.
They were the dun We were like see the bus
were like home and they were and we did something wrong,
we got yelled at, and uh and and and and
so many times the older guy would would put us
(08:43):
in position where we had to make decisions that would
help us later on in life. And I appreciate appreciation
for to this day. Yes, I did a lot of
a thing that because I was I had to, but
(09:06):
I considered learning life learning about life. When I look
back over my life in those years, I'm thankful to
those old men who took us young men under their
wings and prepared us for life.
Speaker 1 (09:25):
Professor Leslie Heffy, baseball historian, discusses the impact of the
older players providing leadership and advice to the young players.
Speaker 8 (09:35):
It's a fascinating thing to think about, because I think
on the one side, for the young the young guys
coming up right getting that chance to meet not just
meet players that they had heard about, right the Satchels,
the Josh Gibson's of the world. But now they're getting
to play alongside and to learn from. And so there's
(09:57):
that sense of all sense of you're joining something that
is clearly important, that clearly is something to be proud
of that you're and so therefore there's an expectation of behavior,
et cetera, et cetera, that you hope to learn from
(10:19):
these players because you recognize that your participation in the
negro leagues is something that your families are proud of,
your communities are proud of. They're going to look to you,
and so how do you learn those kinds of things
and so looking to these older players to provide some
of that. And then on the reverse side, you know,
(10:39):
you've got Jackie Robinson, right, who, Yeah, when he enters
the major leagues is twenty seven years old, right, but
he's also encountering Satchel Paige and others who are certainly
older than he is. And that year when he's with
the Kansas City Monarchs, the whole idea that he's there
to learn and that they're going to provide guidance for
(11:00):
not just on the field, but in life. And so
there's a lot of that that goes on as well,
because you know, Willie Mays when he's seventeen, sixteen, seventeen
years old, is experiencing a world he's never experienced. So
who does he learn from? Who does he turn to
to watch to ask questions to learn to grow up? Right,
it's going to be these other players who've had these
(11:22):
long standing and have had these experiences for many, many years.
Speaker 1 (11:26):
Pitches Eugenie Scruggs and Dennis Biddle remember the opportunity to
play with some of the biggest stars in baseball.
Speaker 9 (11:34):
Well, it was you know, I used to playing maybe
once a week, But when I got to the point
where I was playing every day. It was a whole
lot different. Baseball had come into a grown man game.
Speaker 6 (11:46):
Then.
Speaker 9 (11:47):
You know I would get a boy. You know it
was you had hard You had some heavy hitters on
them teams at that time.
Speaker 4 (11:55):
You know, get like.
Speaker 9 (11:57):
Herman green one.
Speaker 7 (11:59):
So you know, I'm seventeen years old, I'm traveling with
these old superstars. I'm listening to them talk about what
has happened out year. I'm I consider I was learning
(12:21):
about life. My mom and daddy raised me. I left
home to go to play in the Negro baseball There
here I am in this mean world. I'm learning about
life from these old, living legends.
Speaker 1 (12:38):
Although the younger players lacked experience, their athletic ability and
their prowess to play multiple positions made them ideal players
in the Negro leagues. His picture Hank Mason.
Speaker 10 (12:50):
I think the talent that we had, we could do
almost anything on the baseball field. You know, there was
some guys that could catch, could play first base, could
play second base, but I think I could pitch and
play third base and outfield and everything like that. Because
(13:12):
if you were going to stay in a game, you
had to hit. You had the bunt. You had to
do everything right. And every pitcher in the Niggro League
wanted to stay in the game just as long as
they could, and I wanted to stay in the game.
I could lay down a bun. I could hit the
right field behind the runner. I could hit. Not as
(13:37):
good as some of the other hitters that was at
the plate every day, but I could hit the ball.
We had to play everything if we wanted to stay
on the team.
Speaker 1 (13:49):
Again, we hear from pitcher Dennis Bittle.
Speaker 7 (13:52):
Back when I played. I could run real fast, I
could really hit. I bet it switch on the left
on the right side. I would more value but to
the team than some guy that was just an average player.
Because Octor played many positions. Ain'tybody that could play that
(14:14):
way in the Negro League with more value but to
the team. Because of that.
Speaker 1 (14:20):
For many, the opportunity to enter the league came down
to injury in the need of a team to immediately
fill the position. His second basement Nate Dancing.
Speaker 4 (14:30):
Okay. The first time that I got introduced to the
Negro League was in mississ Tennessee the Red Sox and
then the manager was the Goose Curry. Mister goose Curry
and my brother played first base for the Red Sox,
and I went over to see him play, and the
shortstop got hurt, so they didn't have nobody else to play,
and my brother and my father. My brother told her
(14:52):
the manager, say, my little brother said he was playing field,
and he said he was right here. He say, sending
his stand. But he came over and asked me he
lived danced. What was it you play? I said, I played,
take a basic short start anywhere in the infield and outfield.
I just I played baseball, so yes, to keep playing
a short stop, I said, sure, I could play, okay,
and and uh after when that first happened, I got
(15:15):
a chance to play. He said, you got a glove like, yes,
I got my glove ray, I had a twitch up
in back in my back pocket. So he come right
and they gave me some uniform. Gave me a uniform.
I dressed, and the dug out and went right on
the field started playing. And the first time I got up,
I hit a single off the middle and turned it
to turn singing into the double. And they saw me say, oh,
you run too, and then they exciting play. I remember
(15:40):
because the guy hit a baseball hitter hit a shot
in the hole and I'm back hainted and turned the
guy out at first meet and then all the people
in the stand just stood up and applaud me. And
every since then I was I really was too young
to be playing, but uh, mister Curry got it. My
friends decided to consent for me to play. And that's
how I got the red side again.
Speaker 1 (16:02):
We hear from pitcher Dennis Bill.
Speaker 7 (16:04):
A lot of time the Negro leg player would get injured,
the manager will try that player is not gonna use
for the for the team, the team that we're playing against.
And we played a lot of local team. This is
how the Negro League was made up. A local team.
(16:25):
They called it bombs, don't it. But that was a
way of life for the Negro Baseball League and some
of those teams. And I can truth the sentence because
I was there. Some of those teams we played local
were just as good as we were, but they couldn't
leave home and travel like we did. But if a
player got hurt on our team, the manager will try
(16:52):
the players from the other team. The best player they
assumed he was the best player of the player they liked,
they would try to get him to come over and
travel and play with the Negro league team. This is
how a lot of player had the opportunity to play
in a Negro baseball league. This is how I was done.
(17:16):
A lot of time, a player would get hurt, he's
no good to the team anymore that year, so they
would contract another player from the other team that we
were playing against to play in a Negro baseball lead.
Speaker 1 (17:33):
Others like pitcher Kank Mason got their chance, but lacked
perspective on how talented they were until they played.
Speaker 10 (17:40):
And I didn't think that I was a caliber or
baseball player that could play with the Kansas City Monarchs.
And after I got there, you know, when I went there,
I was a third baseman, and a pretty good one
at that. And he told me, he said, he hit
(18:02):
me some balls down to third base and he said, now, listen, Hank,
I've got a good third basement. Is it anything else
you can do? And I said, yeah, I can pitch some.
He said, okay, then I want you to go down
in the bullpen and get loosen up real good, and
I'll be down there a little bit. I said, okay.
(18:23):
So I went down and I got my arm loosen
up real good, and he came down and I threw
him a couple of fastballs about ninety five miles an hour,
and he said, you got anything else. I said, yeah,
I got a curveball, slider, change up. And I threw
him a slider and a curveball, and he said, hey,
(18:44):
do you think you can be up here tomorrow at
ten o'clock because we're going south. I said I think so.
He said, well, I want to take you with me. Oh,
that's the first time I met Buck O'Dell.
Speaker 11 (18:57):
One of the things that surprises me, Hank, about what
you just said. Had you been a picture before, because
you said that you were a third baseman, but yet
you had an array of pitches. Where did you develop
those pitches if indeed you were not a pitcher?
Speaker 10 (19:09):
You know, I really don't know. I guess it was
just a gift from God. I played third base for
the Marshall Bluesox most of my life, and then when
they didn't have a picture, they would say, hey, can
you pitch the day? I said, yeah, so I pitched
the day, you know, and another guy named George Walker,
(19:34):
he would teach me, you know, some things about pitching,
but I think it was just a gift from God.
Speaker 1 (19:42):
Pitcher Dennis Bid ends our episode with an antidote memorializing
and older mentor. They call it cool Papa Bell.
Speaker 7 (19:50):
I remember one game and I saw this fifty three
mister James Bell. They called it, oh Papa Bell. Now
he was fifty years old and he was training us
hot around the base at ol Kamisk Park en Chicago.
I'll never forget him. He was in an exhibition game.
(20:14):
We had it somewhere and he he stole sucking and
then he stole first again just to prove how fast
he was. But this was just clouding in the game.
But the man was known as the fanciest human to
play baseball. And he told me, he said, you heard
that lie such a page said about me. He called
(20:35):
me kid too, All of them called me kids. I said, no,
he said, Sacha told her lie about it. Come on,
he could. I was so fast that you could turn
the lad out in the room and I could be
in the bed before it ever got done, he said.
But I was faster than that. He said, I'm the
only baseball player that can hear a line drive over
(20:57):
sucking and then get called out when the ball hit
me in the back When I round.
Speaker 6 (21:02):
The side.
Speaker 1 (21:04):
Behind the barrier, voices from the Negro leagues. Is narrated
by Bill Overton, produced by Taylor Haber. Executive producers are
Jason Wykelp, Darren Peck, and Ron Barr. Please check out
our next episode as well as the episodes in this series.
This series is distributed by Sports Byline USA and the
(21:25):
eight Side Network
Hi, I'm Bill Overton, and we continue our series with
our second episode, which centers around how players from the
Negro leagues developed into professional baseball. Some players were able
to take advantage of organized baseball in high school or
organized league play in the cities they grew up in.
Most of though, use their athletic skill and love of
(00:30):
the game to reach professional levels in their teenage years.
Imagine playing professional baseball when you were fifteen or sixty
eight years old, a combination of mostly self taught skills,
love of the game, and advice and knowledge from older
players with the building blocks of the professional Negro league players.
(00:55):
Here's Ron Barr from Sports Byline USA talking with pitcher
Linio Westbrook about his early years playing baseball.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
Willie Mays is a friend of mine, and I remember
talking to Willie about the Negro Legs and he was
saying he was sixteen years old and he was playing
professional baseball with the Birmingham Black Bearons at that particular time,
and I'm just wondering, that's amazing to think that all
these players when they were sixteen, seventeen, even younger fifteen
years old, were playing professional baseball.
Speaker 3 (01:24):
You know, I was playing with lots of full grown
men at the age of probably fourteen and fifteen years old,
and we were it was a mixture of thirteen and
fourteen year old kids like myself, my brother and others
that was playing, like I said, playing with these grown
(01:46):
up someonem probably in their thirties and maybe forties, and
they were very good ball players. But we was able
to compete. And I remember when I came here at
seven team it was uh in the Chicago area. It
was almost like a class A double A baseball.
Speaker 4 (02:08):
You know.
Speaker 3 (02:09):
And immediately after I got here, it was a team
by the name of the Chicago Cardinals, mister Thomas. And as
soon as I got here and he had me to
go out and pitch, and I wondered, I said, well,
I'm not sure how I'm going to fare out here,
because these guys probably have much more experience than I have.
(02:31):
But I was able to go out there and compete,
and it turned out that I ended up being his
number one pitcher.
Speaker 1 (02:40):
Former catcher and pitcher Ernest Fan remembers that they would
do anything to find a way to play baseball.
Speaker 5 (02:46):
When he was young, we didn't have any day, a
short paint, barefood, won't think of the tennon ball or
whatever kind of stick we can shape like a bat,
and we would be out there all day on a Saturday.
We couldn't go out there on sunny because my mother
lad us go to church. But that's how I learned
(03:11):
how to play baseball.
Speaker 1 (03:13):
Pitcher Don Woods recalls that the talent level was extremely
high even when he was young.
Speaker 6 (03:20):
Well, I tell you what happened, especially with the players
of my age. We were the players that played day
and night. We went out on the summertime, played early
in the morning all the way into the evening. In
the community in which I lived. I felt that quite
a few of them were very athletic and possibly possibly
(03:42):
could have been a focal point in the Major League
and trying to make their niche into the baseball game.
Speaker 1 (03:51):
Down was one of the few who was able to
rise and organize the youth leagues.
Speaker 6 (03:56):
It was pretty popular where I was. They had a
a Woodland Boys Club who had a league and there
were maybe eight or nine teams who competed at the
high school level. There was a teams from different sections
of the city who competed for a city wide championship
(04:17):
and went on to represent Chicago and various other entities
throughout Chicago Land area.
Speaker 1 (04:25):
Many others had to learn the game to unorthodox needs,
especially in the South. Here again is Leo Westbrook.
Speaker 3 (04:34):
Was able to do things with the white kids and adults.
And I'll tell you this story real quick. We lived
in the country, you know, a good while early on,
and the first football, baseball, and basketball I ever touched
(04:54):
was a young white boy that lived u over from us.
His parents own the plantation, and his mother and father
they allowed us to come over and play. Jim Corter,
and his sister was Kate. They allowed us to come
over and play with uh with him anytime we wanted to,
(05:16):
and we was able to.
Speaker 4 (05:18):
We had was at liberty to do whatever we wanted
to do as long.
Speaker 3 (05:23):
As we've been what young kid's supposed to do.
Speaker 6 (05:27):
And I never forget.
Speaker 3 (05:28):
This is the thing I remember the most. We had
played outside for quite a while and it was hot
and we Jim said, well it's time for us get
a break. Let's go in and get some something cold
to drink. He said, We said, okay, So we headed
to the back door. He said, where are you all going?
He said, We're going to the back to he said,
(05:50):
I know for what we told him. Said, well, Jim,
we don't know that. You know, it's proper for us
to come to He said, Look, Leo and Joe, as
long as you are here playing with us, this is
totally appropriate. And I don't ever want to see you
guys heating to the back door, not here. So uh,
(06:14):
and I tried to look him up and let him
know how things, what he'd done, what part had played
with my brother and I, what we'd done after we
left the South. So because he became he didn't play
professional baseball, but he became a lieutenant police force and
(06:35):
a chief of police in a small town in the
suburbs of Dalton. So I just wanted him to know
that what he'd done for us didn't go to waste.
You know, in the country we played, there were what
they called sandlot baseball teams around the country, and that
(06:58):
was the height of a baseball playing in the South.
So from what I understand that, uh, some businessman's got
together and put together some teams that turned out to
be the Messag's Red Sox at Birmingham Black Barons and
(07:19):
Cancer City monox On and on and from that baseball, Uh,
began to grow, and we didn't have no coaches of
managers that had any experience in baseball, but we was
able to get our knowledge from some of the older
guys that I guess they just kind of learned it
(07:41):
on their own. And and that's how we really got started.
And that was the pretty much a big thing, you
know down there that uh satellite baseball playing out in
those pastures and different wherever they did enough land.
Speaker 1 (08:03):
As Leo mentioned, many of the players relied on the older,
more experienced players to teach them the finer points of
the game and about life. He is Dennis Biddle, former
pitcher in head of yesterday's Negro League Baseball Players organization,
remembering the influence of the older players.
Speaker 7 (08:22):
I looked back and I said, we were like the kids.
They were the dun We were like see the bus
were like home and they were and we did something wrong,
we got yelled at, and uh and and and and
so many times the older guy would would put us
(08:43):
in position where we had to make decisions that would
help us later on in life. And I appreciate appreciation
for to this day. Yes, I did a lot of
a thing that because I was I had to, but
(09:06):
I considered learning life learning about life. When I look
back over my life in those years, I'm thankful to
those old men who took us young men under their
wings and prepared us for life.
Speaker 1 (09:25):
Professor Leslie Heffy, baseball historian, discusses the impact of the
older players providing leadership and advice to the young players.
Speaker 8 (09:35):
It's a fascinating thing to think about, because I think
on the one side, for the young the young guys
coming up right getting that chance to meet not just
meet players that they had heard about, right the Satchels,
the Josh Gibson's of the world. But now they're getting
to play alongside and to learn from. And so there's
(09:57):
that sense of all sense of you're joining something that
is clearly important, that clearly is something to be proud
of that you're and so therefore there's an expectation of behavior,
et cetera, et cetera, that you hope to learn from
(10:19):
these players because you recognize that your participation in the
negro leagues is something that your families are proud of,
your communities are proud of. They're going to look to you,
and so how do you learn those kinds of things
and so looking to these older players to provide some
of that. And then on the reverse side, you know,
(10:39):
you've got Jackie Robinson, right, who, Yeah, when he enters
the major leagues is twenty seven years old, right, but
he's also encountering Satchel Paige and others who are certainly
older than he is. And that year when he's with
the Kansas City Monarchs, the whole idea that he's there
to learn and that they're going to provide guidance for
(11:00):
not just on the field, but in life. And so
there's a lot of that that goes on as well,
because you know, Willie Mays when he's seventeen, sixteen, seventeen
years old, is experiencing a world he's never experienced. So
who does he learn from? Who does he turn to
to watch to ask questions to learn to grow up? Right,
it's going to be these other players who've had these
(11:22):
long standing and have had these experiences for many, many years.
Speaker 1 (11:26):
Pitches Eugenie Scruggs and Dennis Biddle remember the opportunity to
play with some of the biggest stars in baseball.
Speaker 9 (11:34):
Well, it was you know, I used to playing maybe
once a week, But when I got to the point
where I was playing every day. It was a whole
lot different. Baseball had come into a grown man game.
Speaker 6 (11:46):
Then.
Speaker 9 (11:47):
You know I would get a boy. You know it
was you had hard You had some heavy hitters on
them teams at that time.
Speaker 4 (11:55):
You know, get like.
Speaker 9 (11:57):
Herman green one.
Speaker 7 (11:59):
So you know, I'm seventeen years old, I'm traveling with
these old superstars. I'm listening to them talk about what
has happened out year. I'm I consider I was learning
(12:21):
about life. My mom and daddy raised me. I left
home to go to play in the Negro baseball There
here I am in this mean world. I'm learning about
life from these old, living legends.
Speaker 1 (12:38):
Although the younger players lacked experience, their athletic ability and
their prowess to play multiple positions made them ideal players
in the Negro leagues. His picture Hank Mason.
Speaker 10 (12:50):
I think the talent that we had, we could do
almost anything on the baseball field. You know, there was
some guys that could catch, could play first base, could
play second base, but I think I could pitch and
play third base and outfield and everything like that. Because
(13:12):
if you were going to stay in a game, you
had to hit. You had the bunt. You had to
do everything right. And every pitcher in the Niggro League
wanted to stay in the game just as long as
they could, and I wanted to stay in the game.
I could lay down a bun. I could hit the
right field behind the runner. I could hit. Not as
(13:37):
good as some of the other hitters that was at
the plate every day, but I could hit the ball.
We had to play everything if we wanted to stay
on the team.
Speaker 1 (13:49):
Again, we hear from pitcher Dennis Bittle.
Speaker 7 (13:52):
Back when I played. I could run real fast, I
could really hit. I bet it switch on the left
on the right side. I would more value but to
the team than some guy that was just an average player.
Because Octor played many positions. Ain'tybody that could play that
(14:14):
way in the Negro League with more value but to
the team. Because of that.
Speaker 1 (14:20):
For many, the opportunity to enter the league came down
to injury in the need of a team to immediately
fill the position. His second basement Nate Dancing.
Speaker 4 (14:30):
Okay. The first time that I got introduced to the
Negro League was in mississ Tennessee the Red Sox and
then the manager was the Goose Curry. Mister goose Curry
and my brother played first base for the Red Sox,
and I went over to see him play, and the
shortstop got hurt, so they didn't have nobody else to play,
and my brother and my father. My brother told her
(14:52):
the manager, say, my little brother said he was playing field,
and he said he was right here. He say, sending
his stand. But he came over and asked me he
lived danced. What was it you play? I said, I played,
take a basic short start anywhere in the infield and outfield.
I just I played baseball, so yes, to keep playing
a short stop, I said, sure, I could play, okay,
and and uh after when that first happened, I got
(15:15):
a chance to play. He said, you got a glove like, yes,
I got my glove ray, I had a twitch up
in back in my back pocket. So he come right
and they gave me some uniform. Gave me a uniform.
I dressed, and the dug out and went right on
the field started playing. And the first time I got up,
I hit a single off the middle and turned it
to turn singing into the double. And they saw me say, oh,
you run too, and then they exciting play. I remember
(15:40):
because the guy hit a baseball hitter hit a shot
in the hole and I'm back hainted and turned the
guy out at first meet and then all the people
in the stand just stood up and applaud me. And
every since then I was I really was too young
to be playing, but uh, mister Curry got it. My
friends decided to consent for me to play. And that's
how I got the red side again.
Speaker 1 (16:02):
We hear from pitcher Dennis Bill.
Speaker 7 (16:04):
A lot of time the Negro leg player would get injured,
the manager will try that player is not gonna use
for the for the team, the team that we're playing against.
And we played a lot of local team. This is
how the Negro League was made up. A local team.
(16:25):
They called it bombs, don't it. But that was a
way of life for the Negro Baseball League and some
of those teams. And I can truth the sentence because
I was there. Some of those teams we played local
were just as good as we were, but they couldn't
leave home and travel like we did. But if a
player got hurt on our team, the manager will try
(16:52):
the players from the other team. The best player they
assumed he was the best player of the player they liked,
they would try to get him to come over and
travel and play with the Negro league team. This is
how a lot of player had the opportunity to play
in a Negro baseball league. This is how I was done.
(17:16):
A lot of time, a player would get hurt, he's
no good to the team anymore that year, so they
would contract another player from the other team that we
were playing against to play in a Negro baseball lead.
Speaker 1 (17:33):
Others like pitcher Kank Mason got their chance, but lacked
perspective on how talented they were until they played.
Speaker 10 (17:40):
And I didn't think that I was a caliber or
baseball player that could play with the Kansas City Monarchs.
And after I got there, you know, when I went there,
I was a third baseman, and a pretty good one
at that. And he told me, he said, he hit
(18:02):
me some balls down to third base and he said, now, listen, Hank,
I've got a good third basement. Is it anything else
you can do? And I said, yeah, I can pitch some.
He said, okay, then I want you to go down
in the bullpen and get loosen up real good, and
I'll be down there a little bit. I said, okay.
(18:23):
So I went down and I got my arm loosen
up real good, and he came down and I threw
him a couple of fastballs about ninety five miles an hour,
and he said, you got anything else. I said, yeah,
I got a curveball, slider, change up. And I threw
him a slider and a curveball, and he said, hey,
(18:44):
do you think you can be up here tomorrow at
ten o'clock because we're going south. I said I think so.
He said, well, I want to take you with me. Oh,
that's the first time I met Buck O'Dell.
Speaker 11 (18:57):
One of the things that surprises me, Hank, about what
you just said. Had you been a picture before, because
you said that you were a third baseman, but yet
you had an array of pitches. Where did you develop
those pitches if indeed you were not a pitcher?
Speaker 10 (19:09):
You know, I really don't know. I guess it was
just a gift from God. I played third base for
the Marshall Bluesox most of my life, and then when
they didn't have a picture, they would say, hey, can
you pitch the day? I said, yeah, so I pitched
the day, you know, and another guy named George Walker,
(19:34):
he would teach me, you know, some things about pitching,
but I think it was just a gift from God.
Speaker 1 (19:42):
Pitcher Dennis Bid ends our episode with an antidote memorializing
and older mentor. They call it cool Papa Bell.
Speaker 7 (19:50):
I remember one game and I saw this fifty three
mister James Bell. They called it, oh Papa Bell. Now
he was fifty years old and he was training us
hot around the base at ol Kamisk Park en Chicago.
I'll never forget him. He was in an exhibition game.
(20:14):
We had it somewhere and he he stole sucking and
then he stole first again just to prove how fast
he was. But this was just clouding in the game.
But the man was known as the fanciest human to
play baseball. And he told me, he said, you heard
that lie such a page said about me. He called
(20:35):
me kid too, All of them called me kids. I said, no,
he said, Sacha told her lie about it. Come on,
he could. I was so fast that you could turn
the lad out in the room and I could be
in the bed before it ever got done, he said.
But I was faster than that. He said, I'm the
only baseball player that can hear a line drive over
(20:57):
sucking and then get called out when the ball hit
me in the back When I round.
Speaker 6 (21:02):
The side.
Speaker 1 (21:04):
Behind the barrier, voices from the Negro leagues. Is narrated
by Bill Overton, produced by Taylor Haber. Executive producers are
Jason Wykelp, Darren Peck, and Ron Barr. Please check out
our next episode as well as the episodes in this series.
This series is distributed by Sports Byline USA and the
(21:25):
eight Side Network
Host
Bill Overton
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
New Heights with Jason & Travis Kelce
Football’s funniest family duo — Jason Kelce of the Philadelphia Eagles and Travis Kelce of the Kansas City Chiefs — team up to provide next-level access to life in the league as it unfolds. The two brothers and Super Bowl champions drop weekly insights about the weekly slate of games and share their INSIDE perspectives on trending NFL news and sports headlines. They also endlessly rag on each other as brothers do, chat the latest in pop culture and welcome some very popular and well-known friends to chat with them. Check out new episodes every Wednesday. Follow New Heights on the Wondery App, YouTube or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to new episodes early and ad-free, and get exclusive content on Wondery+. Join Wondery+ in the Wondery App, Apple Podcasts or Spotify. And join our new membership for a unique fan experience by going to the New Heights YouTube channel now!