June 7, 2023 • 19 mins
Negro League baseball was drawing huge crowds due to its fast action style of play and its fan base. Major League baseball took notice and financial reasons were a large part of the breaking of the color barrier. As players started to migrate to Major League baseball so did the fans, and young talent in the Negro Leagues were signed to major and minor league contracts, marking the beginning of the end for Negro League baseball.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
Hi, I'm Bill Overton. Welcome to Behind the Barrier Voices
from the Negro Leagues. In today's episode, we discussed how
the breaking of the color barrier was very much financially
motivated due to the popularity of the Negro leagues. The
unique style of play and entertainment value had fans flocking
(00:26):
to the stadiums to watch Negro League baseball. However, as
the color barrier was broken and black players were entering
both the major and minor league systems, the majority of
those fans began to cross over to watch integrated play,
and with that migration, along with no compensation to teams,
we began to see the downfall of Negro league baseball.
(00:51):
Here is pitcher Dennis Biddle discussing the attraction of the
different style of play in Negro League baseball.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
The game was a different and they don't want to
talk about the difference. The game was different than that
of the Major league. It was more darian and more excited. Therefore,
thousands of thousands of people would come and watched the
Negro league team play because of that.
Speaker 1 (01:16):
Dennis and Professor Leslie Heavy both point out the economic
interest that major league owners first rejected but then came
to realize due to the success of the Negro leagues.
Speaker 2 (01:29):
The mere thought of Jackie Robinson had nothing to do
with the Major League ready to integrate. It was economics.
Those owners went to those major league parks, huh, and
rented those parks for those team to play in when
the major League team was out of town. That was
(01:51):
the meal thought of Jackie Robinson, simply because the Negro
League teams drew more fans in the league park in
the major league team. That was a mere thought of
Jackie Robinson. They don't talk about it. It's not pretty.
These men honored was out to make money, and they
made money. They put together All Star games against the
(02:15):
Black All Stars and the White All Stars, and they
packed the stadiums, and the Black All Stars a lot
of time beat the major league team. It's in the
record books.
Speaker 3 (02:30):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (02:31):
A lot of those players that they later years put
in the Hall of Fame played in those games against
those players. The white player that was in the put
in the Hall of Fame.
Speaker 4 (02:44):
So many of the Major League teams rented out their
stadiums to the Egal League teams and they made a
lot of money because you know, we see it today,
when stadiums sit empty for a whole week, you're you're paying,
you're paying for it, still you're not making any money.
So the Eagle League teams were a huge source of
income to Major League teams. So the fear was on
the opposite side. If the Negro League teams start to
(03:08):
decline or disappear, then we're going to lose that rental income.
Speaker 1 (03:14):
Dennis goes on to discuss how the Negro leagues ultimately
became a farm system from Major League Baseball.
Speaker 2 (03:19):
The major leagues broke up the Negro Baseball League, Mister
brass Ricky, he knew what he was getting ready to
do was going to be a devastating blow to that league.
He knew that, but he had a long range goal.
He put forth that when it does happen, we're going
to use the Negro League as a minor league system
(03:42):
for the major league. That's what it really was with
Doctor Credibility. When he went to set up that idea
of years the owners refused, and they refused because they
were making more money.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
Leslie Heffy points out that fielding the best players is
the way to bring in.
Speaker 4 (04:04):
The fans, so they're certainly the recognition, and Ricky and
mcphale and all the Veack and all the other owners
are certainly businessmen, right, so they are looking to put
the best team on the field because the best team
is going to win, the best team is going to
bring in the fans, and you are going to then
consequently make money off of that.
Speaker 1 (04:24):
When players were signed, former Indianapolis Clowns infielder Reggie Howard
points out that no revenue went to the Negro League
or the teams.
Speaker 5 (04:33):
As an example, the Kansas City Monarchs, Jyl Wilkinson, Town
Barry White owners did not receive one penny for Jackie Robson.
The New York Eagles did not received one penny for
don Nuco That was a Vanessa megle CAUs a wife's
team and the home state grade mister sonny Man, Jackson
(04:55):
and Couban and Pole on the Graves. They didn't get
one penny for Johnny Wright. Johnny Right, the first player
signed first picture signed from the Negro League shortly after Robinson,
maybe like twenty four months after Robinson. Find the Blacks
didn't get as much as they should have gotten out
of it by just taking one in and then second
(05:15):
these players off which ultimately destroyed the league.
Speaker 1 (05:19):
Picture. Leo Westbrook discusses the contribution of the players who
broke the barrier and what it meant to the major leagues.
Speaker 6 (05:26):
The contribution uh that uh that Negroes made to baseball
is a big time up tip in an attendance. And
that's what branch Ricky was was thinking about.
Speaker 1 (05:43):
You know when he.
Speaker 6 (05:44):
Jackie asked him why didn't he why why did he
sign him? And he rubbed his fingers together. He was
told him the truth money and uh so, uh more
of blacks began to show up at baseball games because
you had the likes of you know, uh went after Jackie,
(06:06):
Don Dukum and all those guys.
Speaker 1 (06:08):
Pitcher Hank Mason tells the story of the difference in
attendance of the Negro league games versus the major leagues
and the innovative reasons for the large audience.
Speaker 7 (06:18):
We played in Kansas City at Blues Stadium. Now, let
me tell you something. In nineteen fifty two, when I
pitched sixteen innings to beat the Philadelphia Stars three to two,
we had something like maybe fourteen thousand fans in the stand.
(06:41):
Saint Louis Cardinals was playing the Cincinnati Reds in Saint Louis,
which is about two hundred and forty miles away from
Kansas City, and they had three thousand fans. Now, what
do you think. Why do you think that branch Ricky
(07:02):
signed Jackie Robinson because they they wanted to see a
different brand of baseball. You see the Negro League. The
Negro League players, they invented the double steal, They invented
the drag bunch. They invented a whole bunch of things
(07:24):
that the major league players wasn't doing that was excited
to fans. And let me tell you another thing. The
Negro League was the first league that played night baseball.
And the Kansas City Monocks invented nice base to night
(07:46):
baseball because they had trucks hauling the transformers from one
town to another. And that's what invented night baseball.
Speaker 1 (08:00):
Dennis Biddle also points out how the major leagues studied
the style of the Negro League players.
Speaker 2 (08:06):
The Negro League, Ah, it was, it was different than
that of the major leagues. The play, the style, and
the technique was different many time. And this we passed
down many time. They said the owners of those white
(08:26):
teams were sneaking the game and studied their techniques and
take it back to the major league and implements. There's
a lot of plays there they're doing in the major
leagues today. Came from the Negro Baseball.
Speaker 1 (08:40):
Infield of Nate Dancy remembers how many people showed up
to a Kansas City Monarchs game.
Speaker 8 (08:45):
We had my white man do. We had African America
because we traveled see and everywhere we go. When they
find out that they can't sit the when us was coming,
I mean they had they had the roam feels off
for the.
Speaker 5 (08:56):
People coming in.
Speaker 8 (08:58):
It was just so exciting and we said that sometimes
we said that for thirty minutes hours before the games
out just signed autographs. They were they were so excited
to see us play because we always put on a
pretty good show. Fun we put on it, like the
infield of the infield was excited, and when we had
a game, we had people to get to the party
really to see us do the infield and patt in practice.
(09:19):
So that was really really excited to the game.
Speaker 1 (09:21):
Also, Hall of Fame manager Buck O'Neill talks about how
the Nego League All Stars often beat the major league
teams and how the major leagues were not superior due
to the style of the play.
Speaker 3 (09:33):
It was our spending. Really, it was our spending because actually,
you know, we want the majority of the ball game
that we played the major leaguers, that the Bay Root
the Bay Roots All Stars against the sach of Page
All Stars. H bart Feller All Stars sat to Page
All Stars, and uh the Disitan All Stars sat to
(09:56):
Page All Stars. Now we won the majority of the
ball game, not that we were better than the major leagues,
but what actually happened is the you know, the world
said the best baseball in the world was Major League baseball,
and we had we wanted to prove a point that
(10:17):
they weren't superior because they were major leagues and we
weren't into because we were Negro league. So we stretched
that singing into double, doubled into a triple. We stole home.
We did these things. See Jackie Robinson took Negro league
baseball to Maga leagues. That was Negro league baseball, fast, quick,
(10:40):
lot of action.
Speaker 1 (10:41):
Pitcher Gilbert Black also remembers how competitive the play was
between the black and white teams when they faced each other.
Speaker 9 (10:48):
Well, I I during the time I played I played
at the end of h at the end of the
Negro League. I didn't play during the during the heydays,
and I talked to many players because we had guy
on the team named Johnny Williams who played played in
the Negro League, and he was he was a bus
driver and chaperone, and I used to ask him a
(11:11):
lot of questions about it. And he told me that
if during the barnstorming after the season was over, the
white teams would get together stand usual and the rest
of them and the black ball players would get together
and they played each other barnstorming around the country, and
one team would not outshine the other one, no matter,
(11:34):
no matter you know who was playing. The black team
had just as much of an hatcher on the white
team as the white team had on the black team.
Speaker 1 (11:43):
Hall of Fame Outfield of William Mays discusses how Negro
League players changed the game of the major leagues.
Speaker 10 (11:49):
I think, I think when we came into the league,
we changed the game. We changed the game from running.
Speaker 3 (11:55):
For throwing lace I thought I did.
Speaker 10 (12:00):
I didn't think anybody could beat me doing anything when
I came in, Like I was just a little cocker kid,
came along, twenty year old kid. I didn't know that
I went forward to catch these kind of balls they're
talking about people couldn't catch. I didn't. I didn't know
I was. I went about to throw runners out like
I did, hit home runs. I just didn't feel nobody
could beat me doing anything. And that's the way I
(12:20):
played when I came into high school, when I came
with the Barons, I was just one of those kids that, hey,
when the ball went up, catch it and throw it
and hit it. So I did all those things before
I even came to the Giants. It's just the Giants
was organized a little more and everybody started reading the
paper about what's going on.
Speaker 1 (12:39):
So outfielder Sam Allen discusses the style of play and
the unique show put on by the Indianapolis Clowns to
entertain their fans.
Speaker 11 (12:48):
This was before Jack Robinson went to the Dodge. You
look forward to see they grow, their teams come to town.
I mean they played, They played a different brand of ball.
Speaker 7 (12:58):
They ran and stole bases.
Speaker 11 (13:01):
And hit long home runs, you know, and it was
entertaining because see they had like the Clowns, and some
of the teams had had little as you know with
uh clyn Nez was like an acrobat, but it was,
it was, it was entertaining.
Speaker 1 (13:19):
Author camp Paren discusses how the Negro League games were
a place to be for black sports and how the
focus of the fans began to shift after Jackie breaks
the barrier.
Speaker 12 (13:30):
I mean, the Negro Leagues was, you know, there was
no other sports league, you know, of all black athletes.
The Negro League was, you know, the place to be
in in black sports. And so, you know, people would
keep up with their favorite players in the newspaper. You
had newspapers like the Chicago Defender, the Afro American, and
(13:53):
they would they would cover you know, all these games,
and people kept up with their top stars. And then obviously,
when you know, Major League Baseball started coaching players like
Jackie Robinson, some of that sandom kind of you know
started to slip away as the top talent started to
drift towards.
Speaker 9 (14:09):
The Major league.
Speaker 12 (14:10):
And with that, you know, the fans would rather see
you know, Jackie Robinson play on the Brooklyn Dodgers and
go and see a New York Black Yankees game.
Speaker 1 (14:19):
Professor Leslie Heffey also discusses the shift of the audiences
to the major leagues as black players entered the league.
Speaker 4 (14:27):
The newspapers are going to play an interesting role in
all of this, because as soon as Jackie and then
Larry and others h entered major white major league baseball, right,
you're going to see the black newspapers starting to devote
an increasing amount of their coverage to following the black
players that are now playing in the white major leagues,
(14:47):
right instead of league league teams, and so literally pushing
the audience towards and in fact, there's going to be
discussion in some of the papers as some of the
black journalists are going to in the papers essentially take
to task. Some of the black fans were saying that
they were deserting right the black baseball teams to go
(15:10):
watch these and that they needed to come back in
and so definitely seeing this much larger audience that you
could draw in because you've brought in Sachel, Larry, Monty,
Willie Mays, Ernie Banks, et cetera.
Speaker 1 (15:25):
Pitcher Dennis Biddle discusses how the major leagues started to
use the coaches and scouts from the negro leagues to
contract players to the major and minor leagues.
Speaker 2 (15:36):
The Negro League got nothing from preparing Jackie Robinson. But
what they did they signed all the younger players the
long binding contracts. So if a Major League were if
a team were interested, they knew they were going to
be internship because Jacket opened the door and they knew
(15:58):
they would be looking for Tell these men that I
talked about that fell through the crack that prepared us,
this was their livelihood preparing us. They would scout us
in high school, colleges and playground. They would bring us
in those that could go and prepare, and we had
(16:22):
to sign along. Behind the contracts, the Major League started
going to the same sources that the Negro League team
were going to get Tellor. That's why a lot of
the black ball players that played in the fifties and
sixties and seventies never never played in the Negro Baseball
(16:43):
because the Major League went to the college, the playground,
and high schools. This is where the Negro League team
got telling. When the Major league teams started doing this,
the Negro League team sir connect them beats. So by
nineteen six three, that was the end of the Negro
Baseball League.
Speaker 1 (17:04):
Author cam Parent and professor Leslie Heffey discuss how the
clout of Major League Baseball and their system fooled both
the players and fans from the negro leagues.
Speaker 12 (17:17):
You know, I think at the end of the day,
you could ask this to former Major League baseball players themselves,
is they are former Negro league baseball players themselves, as
they you know, always just wanted to play in the
major leagues. So you know, if you have a Negro
league team and then you have a Major League team
with only one or two black players, the fans and
(17:38):
the players who you know, were one of one of
the two black ball players on the now major league team,
they they would go there instead. So I think the
clout of Major League Baseball was really just the end
goal for everybody to go towards.
Speaker 4 (17:58):
Unfortunately, it limits the opportunities because so few get the
chance to make that transition. And you think, okay, so
that means the rest of them are just going to
stay in the negro leagues, right, Well, no, Unfortunately they
went to Canada, they went into the white minor leagues.
And so the consequence is the door opens instead of
(18:22):
opening fully wide, let's say it opened a quarter of
the way, right, and so players slip through and that
does have an impact on the Negro leagues, even if
there's still plenty of players, because the fans, right, who
are your economic base, are going to start to go
watch the Brooklyn Dodgers because they want to see Jackie play.
(18:43):
They want to see Larry Dobe play, they want to
see satchel, and they want to see them playing against
the white Major leaguers. They want to see them do well.
And so consequently, Negro league teams, that's part of their decline.
It's not so much that they're losing huge numbers of players, right,
they are losing their economic base. They're losing their support
and so as a business venture they have to shut down.
(19:04):
Every time a Negro league team shuts down, one of
those players maybe got to go to the majors, But
what happened to the fourteen others? Suddenly they have nowhere
to play. That's the true consequence. Where do they go?
There is nowhere for them to go.
Speaker 13 (19:23):
Behind the barrier Voices from the Negro Leagues is narrated
by Bill Overton, produced by Taylor Haber. Executive producers are
Jason Wyckhelp, Darren Peck, and Ron Barr.
Speaker 8 (19:35):
Please check out our.
Speaker 13 (19:36):
Next episode as well as the episodes in this series.
This series is distributed by a Sports Byline USA and
the Eight Side Network
Hi, I'm Bill Overton. Welcome to Behind the Barrier Voices
from the Negro Leagues. In today's episode, we discussed how
the breaking of the color barrier was very much financially
motivated due to the popularity of the Negro leagues. The
unique style of play and entertainment value had fans flocking
(00:26):
to the stadiums to watch Negro League baseball. However, as
the color barrier was broken and black players were entering
both the major and minor league systems, the majority of
those fans began to cross over to watch integrated play,
and with that migration, along with no compensation to teams,
we began to see the downfall of Negro league baseball.
(00:51):
Here is pitcher Dennis Biddle discussing the attraction of the
different style of play in Negro League baseball.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
The game was a different and they don't want to
talk about the difference. The game was different than that
of the Major league. It was more darian and more excited. Therefore,
thousands of thousands of people would come and watched the
Negro league team play because of that.
Speaker 1 (01:16):
Dennis and Professor Leslie Heavy both point out the economic
interest that major league owners first rejected but then came
to realize due to the success of the Negro leagues.
Speaker 2 (01:29):
The mere thought of Jackie Robinson had nothing to do
with the Major League ready to integrate. It was economics.
Those owners went to those major league parks, huh, and
rented those parks for those team to play in when
the major League team was out of town. That was
(01:51):
the meal thought of Jackie Robinson, simply because the Negro
League teams drew more fans in the league park in
the major league team. That was a mere thought of
Jackie Robinson. They don't talk about it. It's not pretty.
These men honored was out to make money, and they
made money. They put together All Star games against the
(02:15):
Black All Stars and the White All Stars, and they
packed the stadiums, and the Black All Stars a lot
of time beat the major league team. It's in the
record books.
Speaker 3 (02:30):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (02:31):
A lot of those players that they later years put
in the Hall of Fame played in those games against
those players. The white player that was in the put
in the Hall of Fame.
Speaker 4 (02:44):
So many of the Major League teams rented out their
stadiums to the Egal League teams and they made a
lot of money because you know, we see it today,
when stadiums sit empty for a whole week, you're you're paying,
you're paying for it, still you're not making any money.
So the Eagle League teams were a huge source of
income to Major League teams. So the fear was on
the opposite side. If the Negro League teams start to
(03:08):
decline or disappear, then we're going to lose that rental income.
Speaker 1 (03:14):
Dennis goes on to discuss how the Negro leagues ultimately
became a farm system from Major League Baseball.
Speaker 2 (03:19):
The major leagues broke up the Negro Baseball League, Mister
brass Ricky, he knew what he was getting ready to
do was going to be a devastating blow to that league.
He knew that, but he had a long range goal.
He put forth that when it does happen, we're going
to use the Negro League as a minor league system
(03:42):
for the major league. That's what it really was with
Doctor Credibility. When he went to set up that idea
of years the owners refused, and they refused because they
were making more money.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
Leslie Heffy points out that fielding the best players is
the way to bring in.
Speaker 4 (04:04):
The fans, so they're certainly the recognition, and Ricky and
mcphale and all the Veack and all the other owners
are certainly businessmen, right, so they are looking to put
the best team on the field because the best team
is going to win, the best team is going to
bring in the fans, and you are going to then
consequently make money off of that.
Speaker 1 (04:24):
When players were signed, former Indianapolis Clowns infielder Reggie Howard
points out that no revenue went to the Negro League
or the teams.
Speaker 5 (04:33):
As an example, the Kansas City Monarchs, Jyl Wilkinson, Town
Barry White owners did not receive one penny for Jackie Robson.
The New York Eagles did not received one penny for
don Nuco That was a Vanessa megle CAUs a wife's
team and the home state grade mister sonny Man, Jackson
(04:55):
and Couban and Pole on the Graves. They didn't get
one penny for Johnny Wright. Johnny Right, the first player
signed first picture signed from the Negro League shortly after Robinson,
maybe like twenty four months after Robinson. Find the Blacks
didn't get as much as they should have gotten out
of it by just taking one in and then second
(05:15):
these players off which ultimately destroyed the league.
Speaker 1 (05:19):
Picture. Leo Westbrook discusses the contribution of the players who
broke the barrier and what it meant to the major leagues.
Speaker 6 (05:26):
The contribution uh that uh that Negroes made to baseball
is a big time up tip in an attendance. And
that's what branch Ricky was was thinking about.
Speaker 1 (05:43):
You know when he.
Speaker 6 (05:44):
Jackie asked him why didn't he why why did he
sign him? And he rubbed his fingers together. He was
told him the truth money and uh so, uh more
of blacks began to show up at baseball games because
you had the likes of you know, uh went after Jackie,
(06:06):
Don Dukum and all those guys.
Speaker 1 (06:08):
Pitcher Hank Mason tells the story of the difference in
attendance of the Negro league games versus the major leagues
and the innovative reasons for the large audience.
Speaker 7 (06:18):
We played in Kansas City at Blues Stadium. Now, let
me tell you something. In nineteen fifty two, when I
pitched sixteen innings to beat the Philadelphia Stars three to two,
we had something like maybe fourteen thousand fans in the stand.
(06:41):
Saint Louis Cardinals was playing the Cincinnati Reds in Saint Louis,
which is about two hundred and forty miles away from
Kansas City, and they had three thousand fans. Now, what
do you think. Why do you think that branch Ricky
(07:02):
signed Jackie Robinson because they they wanted to see a
different brand of baseball. You see the Negro League. The
Negro League players, they invented the double steal, They invented
the drag bunch. They invented a whole bunch of things
(07:24):
that the major league players wasn't doing that was excited
to fans. And let me tell you another thing. The
Negro League was the first league that played night baseball.
And the Kansas City Monocks invented nice base to night
(07:46):
baseball because they had trucks hauling the transformers from one
town to another. And that's what invented night baseball.
Speaker 1 (08:00):
Dennis Biddle also points out how the major leagues studied
the style of the Negro League players.
Speaker 2 (08:06):
The Negro League, Ah, it was, it was different than
that of the major leagues. The play, the style, and
the technique was different many time. And this we passed
down many time. They said the owners of those white
(08:26):
teams were sneaking the game and studied their techniques and
take it back to the major league and implements. There's
a lot of plays there they're doing in the major
leagues today. Came from the Negro Baseball.
Speaker 1 (08:40):
Infield of Nate Dancy remembers how many people showed up
to a Kansas City Monarchs game.
Speaker 8 (08:45):
We had my white man do. We had African America
because we traveled see and everywhere we go. When they
find out that they can't sit the when us was coming,
I mean they had they had the roam feels off
for the.
Speaker 5 (08:56):
People coming in.
Speaker 8 (08:58):
It was just so exciting and we said that sometimes
we said that for thirty minutes hours before the games
out just signed autographs. They were they were so excited
to see us play because we always put on a
pretty good show. Fun we put on it, like the
infield of the infield was excited, and when we had
a game, we had people to get to the party
really to see us do the infield and patt in practice.
(09:19):
So that was really really excited to the game.
Speaker 1 (09:21):
Also, Hall of Fame manager Buck O'Neill talks about how
the Nego League All Stars often beat the major league
teams and how the major leagues were not superior due
to the style of the play.
Speaker 3 (09:33):
It was our spending. Really, it was our spending because actually,
you know, we want the majority of the ball game
that we played the major leaguers, that the Bay Root
the Bay Roots All Stars against the sach of Page
All Stars. H bart Feller All Stars sat to Page
All Stars, and uh the Disitan All Stars sat to
(09:56):
Page All Stars. Now we won the majority of the
ball game, not that we were better than the major leagues,
but what actually happened is the you know, the world
said the best baseball in the world was Major League baseball,
and we had we wanted to prove a point that
(10:17):
they weren't superior because they were major leagues and we
weren't into because we were Negro league. So we stretched
that singing into double, doubled into a triple. We stole home.
We did these things. See Jackie Robinson took Negro league
baseball to Maga leagues. That was Negro league baseball, fast, quick,
(10:40):
lot of action.
Speaker 1 (10:41):
Pitcher Gilbert Black also remembers how competitive the play was
between the black and white teams when they faced each other.
Speaker 9 (10:48):
Well, I I during the time I played I played
at the end of h at the end of the
Negro League. I didn't play during the during the heydays,
and I talked to many players because we had guy
on the team named Johnny Williams who played played in
the Negro League, and he was he was a bus
driver and chaperone, and I used to ask him a
(11:11):
lot of questions about it. And he told me that
if during the barnstorming after the season was over, the
white teams would get together stand usual and the rest
of them and the black ball players would get together
and they played each other barnstorming around the country, and
one team would not outshine the other one, no matter,
(11:34):
no matter you know who was playing. The black team
had just as much of an hatcher on the white
team as the white team had on the black team.
Speaker 1 (11:43):
Hall of Fame Outfield of William Mays discusses how Negro
League players changed the game of the major leagues.
Speaker 10 (11:49):
I think, I think when we came into the league,
we changed the game. We changed the game from running.
Speaker 3 (11:55):
For throwing lace I thought I did.
Speaker 10 (12:00):
I didn't think anybody could beat me doing anything when
I came in, Like I was just a little cocker kid,
came along, twenty year old kid. I didn't know that
I went forward to catch these kind of balls they're
talking about people couldn't catch. I didn't. I didn't know
I was. I went about to throw runners out like
I did, hit home runs. I just didn't feel nobody
could beat me doing anything. And that's the way I
(12:20):
played when I came into high school, when I came
with the Barons, I was just one of those kids that, hey,
when the ball went up, catch it and throw it
and hit it. So I did all those things before
I even came to the Giants. It's just the Giants
was organized a little more and everybody started reading the
paper about what's going on.
Speaker 1 (12:39):
So outfielder Sam Allen discusses the style of play and
the unique show put on by the Indianapolis Clowns to
entertain their fans.
Speaker 11 (12:48):
This was before Jack Robinson went to the Dodge. You
look forward to see they grow, their teams come to town.
I mean they played, They played a different brand of ball.
Speaker 7 (12:58):
They ran and stole bases.
Speaker 11 (13:01):
And hit long home runs, you know, and it was
entertaining because see they had like the Clowns, and some
of the teams had had little as you know with
uh clyn Nez was like an acrobat, but it was,
it was, it was entertaining.
Speaker 1 (13:19):
Author camp Paren discusses how the Negro League games were
a place to be for black sports and how the
focus of the fans began to shift after Jackie breaks
the barrier.
Speaker 12 (13:30):
I mean, the Negro Leagues was, you know, there was
no other sports league, you know, of all black athletes.
The Negro League was, you know, the place to be
in in black sports. And so, you know, people would
keep up with their favorite players in the newspaper. You
had newspapers like the Chicago Defender, the Afro American, and
(13:53):
they would they would cover you know, all these games,
and people kept up with their top stars. And then obviously,
when you know, Major League Baseball started coaching players like
Jackie Robinson, some of that sandom kind of you know
started to slip away as the top talent started to
drift towards.
Speaker 9 (14:09):
The Major league.
Speaker 12 (14:10):
And with that, you know, the fans would rather see
you know, Jackie Robinson play on the Brooklyn Dodgers and
go and see a New York Black Yankees game.
Speaker 1 (14:19):
Professor Leslie Heffey also discusses the shift of the audiences
to the major leagues as black players entered the league.
Speaker 4 (14:27):
The newspapers are going to play an interesting role in
all of this, because as soon as Jackie and then
Larry and others h entered major white major league baseball, right,
you're going to see the black newspapers starting to devote
an increasing amount of their coverage to following the black
players that are now playing in the white major leagues,
(14:47):
right instead of league league teams, and so literally pushing
the audience towards and in fact, there's going to be
discussion in some of the papers as some of the
black journalists are going to in the papers essentially take
to task. Some of the black fans were saying that
they were deserting right the black baseball teams to go
(15:10):
watch these and that they needed to come back in
and so definitely seeing this much larger audience that you
could draw in because you've brought in Sachel, Larry, Monty,
Willie Mays, Ernie Banks, et cetera.
Speaker 1 (15:25):
Pitcher Dennis Biddle discusses how the major leagues started to
use the coaches and scouts from the negro leagues to
contract players to the major and minor leagues.
Speaker 2 (15:36):
The Negro League got nothing from preparing Jackie Robinson. But
what they did they signed all the younger players the
long binding contracts. So if a Major League were if
a team were interested, they knew they were going to
be internship because Jacket opened the door and they knew
(15:58):
they would be looking for Tell these men that I
talked about that fell through the crack that prepared us,
this was their livelihood preparing us. They would scout us
in high school, colleges and playground. They would bring us
in those that could go and prepare, and we had
(16:22):
to sign along. Behind the contracts, the Major League started
going to the same sources that the Negro League team
were going to get Tellor. That's why a lot of
the black ball players that played in the fifties and
sixties and seventies never never played in the Negro Baseball
(16:43):
because the Major League went to the college, the playground,
and high schools. This is where the Negro League team
got telling. When the Major league teams started doing this,
the Negro League team sir connect them beats. So by
nineteen six three, that was the end of the Negro
Baseball League.
Speaker 1 (17:04):
Author cam Parent and professor Leslie Heffey discuss how the
clout of Major League Baseball and their system fooled both
the players and fans from the negro leagues.
Speaker 12 (17:17):
You know, I think at the end of the day,
you could ask this to former Major League baseball players themselves,
is they are former Negro league baseball players themselves, as
they you know, always just wanted to play in the
major leagues. So you know, if you have a Negro
league team and then you have a Major League team
with only one or two black players, the fans and
(17:38):
the players who you know, were one of one of
the two black ball players on the now major league team,
they they would go there instead. So I think the
clout of Major League Baseball was really just the end
goal for everybody to go towards.
Speaker 4 (17:58):
Unfortunately, it limits the opportunities because so few get the
chance to make that transition. And you think, okay, so
that means the rest of them are just going to
stay in the negro leagues, right, Well, no, Unfortunately they
went to Canada, they went into the white minor leagues.
And so the consequence is the door opens instead of
(18:22):
opening fully wide, let's say it opened a quarter of
the way, right, and so players slip through and that
does have an impact on the Negro leagues, even if
there's still plenty of players, because the fans, right, who
are your economic base, are going to start to go
watch the Brooklyn Dodgers because they want to see Jackie play.
(18:43):
They want to see Larry Dobe play, they want to
see satchel, and they want to see them playing against
the white Major leaguers. They want to see them do well.
And so consequently, Negro league teams, that's part of their decline.
It's not so much that they're losing huge numbers of players, right,
they are losing their economic base. They're losing their support
and so as a business venture they have to shut down.
(19:04):
Every time a Negro league team shuts down, one of
those players maybe got to go to the majors, But
what happened to the fourteen others? Suddenly they have nowhere
to play. That's the true consequence. Where do they go?
There is nowhere for them to go.
Speaker 13 (19:23):
Behind the barrier Voices from the Negro Leagues is narrated
by Bill Overton, produced by Taylor Haber. Executive producers are
Jason Wyckhelp, Darren Peck, and Ron Barr.
Speaker 8 (19:35):
Please check out our.
Speaker 13 (19:36):
Next episode as well as the episodes in this series.
This series is distributed by a Sports Byline USA and
the Eight Side Network
Host
Bill Overton
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