March 6, 2023 • 20 mins
In our first episode we look at the importance of the church and it's role in Negro League baseball. The church was important as a community center, a financial supporter, and a place to physically play baseball. The church was also was also a reason to dress in your Sunday best and head to a ballgame as long as the preacher finished in time!
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:13):
Hi, I'm Bill Overton. Thank you for listening to behind
the barrier voices from the Negro Leagues. Before we get
into our first episode, the producers of this podcast would
like to not a few details that help frame the
episodes you're about to hear. We are here to celebrate
and share the voices and experiences of the players from
(00:36):
the Negro Baseball League. As of today, there are only
one hundred living players from the Negro League era. This
is not a historical project meant to tell the complete
history of Negro League baseball, but instead our project to
allow the player's voices to be heard on topics that
many of them share their thoughts and memories from. Through
(00:58):
the incredible work broadcasting legend Ron Barr and Sports Byline,
we were able to access over fifty interviews of Negro
League players into Sports Byline Library. Ron has made it
a point to find and interview as many living players
as possible for a Sports Byline radio show. We were
(01:19):
lucky enough to go through these interviews and find some
common themes from the interviewed players that allow us to
hear what topics meant the most of the players themselves
in their own voices. We have audio from Hank Aaron,
Willie Mays, Eugene Scruggs, Russell Patterson, Dannis Biddle, and many more,
(01:41):
as well as contributions from renowned baseball historian Professor Leslie Heavy,
and other authors and historians. We hope you enjoyed this
series and that it gives you a perspective and some
knowledge of one of the greatest sporting leagues in our
country's history. Episode one, The Church and Baseball. The church
(02:10):
was central to the development and nurturing of Negro League baseball.
The church most importantly offered a safe place for boys
and men to gather and play baseball. The church had land,
and most public park or recreational areas excluded African Americans
from using much less letting a group assemble and play baseball.
(02:31):
The churches often had baseball leagues and helped the most
qualified players or local teams with funding to continue to
play the game of baseball. The church also helped turn
baseball games into cultural events. The biggest games of the
week weren't Sundays, and patrons of the church not only
dressed up service, but also dressed up in their Sunday
(02:53):
best to go to the games and celebrate. Baseball games
were a place to be seen, a play sticks, wrush
yourself in, a place to see the most popular sport
in Ammica. Here's Ron Barr from Sports Byline USA who
points out the relationship with the church in baseball.
Speaker 2 (03:12):
I remember talking to Mudcat Grant one time and we
were talking about the Nigro legs and the importance of
baseball to the black community, and I told him I
was driving to the airport in South Florida one time
and I looked over to my right and there was
a little white church out in the middle of a field,
and behind it were a group of African Americans and
they were playing baseball. They were in their white shirts,
(03:33):
they still had their ties on from church and everything,
and that was such a vivid picture in my mind.
And he told me about how important it was for
black people to be able to have something that they
could call their own.
Speaker 3 (03:48):
And usually you could find a baseball ground right behind
the church. I couldn't remember, just like we was getting
ready to go back there and play right now. And
this kind of was the beginning of lots of the
parent who really wasn't that interested in baseball, but it
(04:10):
was kind of the beginning of them getting to like
baseball and they saw that their kids were stayed out
of trouble the one that I was engaged in baseball.
So it began to grow just from that. The churches,
(04:33):
you know, having the space in the back, and that
enabled us to play and we had some pretty good
I remember just a little boy, but we had some
good teams back there.
Speaker 1 (04:48):
That was Negro League pitcher Leo Westbrook recounting his days
as a child in the church. Kent State professor Leslie
Heffey weighs in on the importance of the role of
the church support.
Speaker 4 (05:01):
It's that support side of things, I think. So you
have Black church often in some communities, particularly smaller communities,
being that centerpiece and so h sometimes providing the actual
monetary support for local teams for kids to get their starts.
(05:22):
It was a place where the community went to sort
of start their day.
Speaker 1 (05:29):
Picture Eugene Scruggs remembers his days of playing at the
church baseball fields.
Speaker 5 (05:34):
Yeah, we played. We played there growing up and from
I'd say from like a teen years old Huai's in school,
we played on the same field and we played on
the field after we got got grown enough to play.
Speaker 1 (05:53):
Sambo Baseball Hall of Fame manager and first Basement Buck
O'Neil remembers the rivalries but between the churches during.
Speaker 6 (06:02):
That era, most churches now this is this is Semipo,
you know, just all towns. They had baseball, but they
had they had church. The Methodist against the bet.
Speaker 7 (06:19):
And what had to get out of the country.
Speaker 1 (06:21):
Right.
Speaker 4 (06:24):
The church in the black community is really this and
has long been, so it's not unique to the time
period you're talking about the mid twentieth century. The centerpiece
of many of the black communities, the place that they
turned to for both the spiritual side of things but
also community and support. Right, so often the only place
(06:47):
that historically in this country, black communities could turn to
where it was the church. And so the church, you know,
became that place where people found a safe haven, place
to find others that they could connect with. And so
it really was and that's why the black preacher, right
(07:10):
has played such a central role historically for the black community.
It's one of those very often educated individuals who people
could turn to for advice and help and somebody who
understood their experiences in a way. Obviously that going to
a white church even though the religious side is the same,
isn't going to get the experiences. The black church was
(07:32):
often the place where you not only went to go
to church, but you went for meals, you went for
Bible studies, you went the church often supported other community
events and things like that. And so now it was
also the place. And Kansas City is a good place
to see this. We have a lot of discussion in
(07:55):
Kansas City of the idea of the black church being
the place. For example, on Sunday go to church and
then you leave straight from there to go to the
to go to the baseball park and to watch them.
And so it was a chance to dress up. It
was a chance to show off, and that was important
as well. Weren't necessarily off and lots of places to
do that, so the church certainly played that role.
Speaker 1 (08:18):
Picture Eugene Scruggs remembers the crowds attire and likens it
to a religious happening.
Speaker 5 (08:23):
Well, you know back in the day that back in
the days the people would always come to they to
leave church and come to the ball game. They have
the hat and their suits and whatever they had to wear.
It that were all smoded and dressed up uh. And
they would come out to the game and you would
(08:44):
think you would be at a baptism somewhere, but but
it was, you know, that's the type of that's how
they either cared to say back then you would go
to the game and leave church and go and come
straight to the ballpark.
Speaker 1 (09:00):
Catcher and relief pitcher Ernest Fan remembers how baseball changed
the way that shirt sermons would deliver it.
Speaker 8 (09:07):
If you look at it from a true crew point
of view, that's all we had baseball. That's all black
African maren had with baseball. That's the reason those certain
parts and then that will pop that on Sunday, the
shortest sermon the preacher would preach, it's when it's trying
to play baseball.
Speaker 1 (09:30):
Baseball Hall of Fame manager and first basement Buck O'Neil
remembers how baseball was a common ground for social activity.
Speaker 6 (09:39):
Oh well, and oh man that the the black culture
that Nigo League was something. It was actually quite an event.
It was not on the sports. It was a social event.
Uh huh. And you know when when actually the the
(10:01):
influx of blacks and uh, World War One, when they
first came up to work in the pactress. Then uh,
then they organized the Negro leagues and the people played,
and then coming up with World War two, same thing.
And uh, actually Negro league were just about everything. I
(10:23):
pickause just say Washington, DC. At the the people that's
coming up from the South, some of them with more
or less a lot of 'em was the literate coming
out off of the cotton fields and all. And in Washington, DC,
the black bouge war. Well, and these people couldn't hang
(10:44):
with them, so but they knew baseball. So that was
the the Pittsburgh Colfridge, the Homestead, Greese, Baltimore, Eli Johns,
New Eagles. Well, they just blocked these ball games New
York Black Yaghis and oh it was quite a sight.
And you should have seen them. Everybody looked good. It
(11:08):
wasn't actually it was for people getting together. People getting together.
It was a social affair. And it wasn't too many
places that that that that the black folks could go
that joined themselves other than church, and uh maybe church
(11:33):
and jazz. So the big they just got to the
baseball park.
Speaker 4 (11:42):
Now today we go to the game and we wear
our jeans and T shirts and things, and we wear
the colors of the team. That wasn't the way most
fans went to see a game through the forties. Certainly
by the fifties that starts to change. But everybody dressed
up in a way that because it was an event
no matter when you went right, it was something that
you were that was outside the norm. It was something
(12:03):
you were paying for. It was something where you and
you knew you were going to be seen. And so
that's part of it. And you're representing your community, and
particularly within the black community, that idea of representation, I
think is is very significant as well. And so didn't
Yes Sunday maybe added that extra layer to it because
you're already going to church. But that was also true
(12:25):
on other days as well, particularly if a big team
was coming to town, you know, one of the the
Crawfords or the Grays or somebody like that, as opposed
to well, it's just the local community playing. You're still
going to go out and support, but it's not quite
the same thing as you want to. You want to
put it on the good display. You want to make
sure that those out of towners know that you were
(12:46):
you are supporting your community, You're supporting your boys.
Speaker 1 (12:49):
Here is pitcher Dennis Biddle, the youngest living Negro League
Baseball player and president and CEO of Yesterday's Negro League
Baseball Players. The organization helped support the surviving members of
the Negro League Baseball teams to defend their economic interest.
Dennis remembers when a game was in town, you could
(13:10):
leave church.
Speaker 7 (13:12):
All you have to do is look at some of
the old films, old pictures of the Negro League game
games they played on Sundays. If you look at the stands,
you will see people with necktime, women had had some
(13:35):
and you will say why they come to a game
all dressed up? They was coming from church. The minister
would turn church out early on Sunday so the members
to go to church. This happened time and time again and.
Speaker 4 (13:54):
So on Sundays. As a good example, again using Kansas City,
one of the things that we saw happening was people
go to church, they get all dressed up, and the
minister knew that the Kansas City monarchs were going to
be in town, for example, this Sunday, and so you
weren't going to go over in terms of me because
nobody was going to stay and literally wouldn't and so
(14:16):
it affected something as simple as how long is your
sermon going to be? Because you knew that everybody was
there and expected to head out to join the parade,
and that would often lead the players to the game.
And so that was not an uncommon So you know,
one Sunday, your sermon might be forty five minutes because
the Monarchs are and the next Sunday it might be
(14:36):
twenty five because the Monarchs are in town. And often
there would be references to the game and to going
out there and supporting the team appropriately and giving that
you know, kind of support to it. And so that's
one of the I think one of the best examples
of some of that, as you say, intersection between is
(14:58):
just thinking about literally what happened on a Sunday morning
in the recognition in Chicago, in Kansas City and some
of the bigger cities, that hey, if your team's in town,
that's where everybody is planning them going, so you better
not interfere with that.
Speaker 1 (15:12):
Author and Negro League baseball researcher Ken Perrin discusses the
popularity of Negro League baseball, but.
Speaker 9 (15:19):
The Negro League had at a large stan base going
back to the thirties and forties, they would get more
people to come to their All Star game than the
Major League. It was the third largest black business in
the country. People would go to the games. If you
look at old video clips, people would be dressed in
their Sundays best at these games and it was really
just a great community.
Speaker 1 (15:40):
Pitching Eugene Scruggs and author Don Roguson discuss how not
every church community felt the same way about playing baseball.
Speaker 5 (15:48):
On Sundays well, and read Mabottom that we didn't you know,
my parents, my grandmother and they thought he was a
sin see baseball on Sundays, and so we didn't play
on Sunday. We uh, we would play on there that
instead of the Sunday. But it was black up in
(16:10):
the way up in the foldays before we started playing
on Sunday, because that that was something that they think
you should go to churchill Sunday. And it wasn't no
baseball back yere in Alabama at that time.
Speaker 10 (16:25):
So there was a feeling that in some of the
black churches, you don't you don't play ball on Sunday.
And of course Sunday was an important day off, so
you get it both ways. For example, Satchel page Uh says,
you know, his mother never saw him play. She didn't
(16:47):
approve of playing on Sunday, and so I think it
cuts both both ways. It was an entertainment, you know,
in the days before air conditioning particularly, and before back
basketball became big, baseball was everything.
Speaker 1 (17:03):
Pitchers Leo Westbrook and Dennis Biddle discussed how the popularity
of the New Negro League started to make some changes
on Sundays.
Speaker 3 (17:12):
You know, I was playing with lots of full grown
men at the age of probably fourteen and fifteen years old,
and they will come to I can remember them coming
to our home and begging my mother to let us
come out and play, and it included playing on Sundays.
(17:34):
And my mother rejected to that, but they were so
insistent that eventually she said, well, as long as you
all go to church and you know, come to church
in the morning, I'll let you play in the afternoon.
So that's you know, that was the breaking point, and
we were it was a mixture of thirteen and fourteen
(17:57):
year old kids like myself, my brother and the others
that was playing, Like I said, playing with these grown
up someone probably in their thirties and maybe forties.
Speaker 7 (18:11):
When I was growing up, The last punishment I got
was going to play baseball. The city team offered me
seventy five cents to pitch for them. They was playing
a game and I was supposed to have been at
(18:31):
Sunday school church. But for seventy five cents, I went
to the ball game and I was pitching when my
daddy came in and got me off the field. It
took me back to church. That was embarrassment to me
(18:51):
for my daddy to do that, but I had disobeyed
something I was supposed to have done, to do what
I wanted to do. The next Sunday, I sneaked off.
We went to Spring here, Louisiana, and I sneaked off
and went with the teens because I had pitched a
(19:15):
couple of dings and I asked my seventy five cent.
They said, you didn't pitched the game. So the next
time I went losing and I did get paid my
seventy five cents. But that was and my daddy never
said anything else to me about playing. Uh, even though
(19:38):
I was you know, I grew up in the church,
but I knew there was something I wanted to do.
I'm getting the aids now and uh he uh overlooked it.
Speaker 1 (19:56):
Behind the Barrier voices from the Negro Leagues. Is now
rated by Bill Overton, produced by Taylor Haber. Executive producers
are Jason Wykelt, Darren Peck, and Ron BArch. Please check
out our next episode as well as the episodes in
this series. This series is distributed by Sports Byline USA
(20:16):
and the eight Side Network
Hi, I'm Bill Overton. Thank you for listening to behind
the barrier voices from the Negro Leagues. Before we get
into our first episode, the producers of this podcast would
like to not a few details that help frame the
episodes you're about to hear. We are here to celebrate
and share the voices and experiences of the players from
(00:36):
the Negro Baseball League. As of today, there are only
one hundred living players from the Negro League era. This
is not a historical project meant to tell the complete
history of Negro League baseball, but instead our project to
allow the player's voices to be heard on topics that
many of them share their thoughts and memories from. Through
(00:58):
the incredible work broadcasting legend Ron Barr and Sports Byline,
we were able to access over fifty interviews of Negro
League players into Sports Byline Library. Ron has made it
a point to find and interview as many living players
as possible for a Sports Byline radio show. We were
(01:19):
lucky enough to go through these interviews and find some
common themes from the interviewed players that allow us to
hear what topics meant the most of the players themselves
in their own voices. We have audio from Hank Aaron,
Willie Mays, Eugene Scruggs, Russell Patterson, Dannis Biddle, and many more,
(01:41):
as well as contributions from renowned baseball historian Professor Leslie Heavy,
and other authors and historians. We hope you enjoyed this
series and that it gives you a perspective and some
knowledge of one of the greatest sporting leagues in our
country's history. Episode one, The Church and Baseball. The church
(02:10):
was central to the development and nurturing of Negro League baseball.
The church most importantly offered a safe place for boys
and men to gather and play baseball. The church had land,
and most public park or recreational areas excluded African Americans
from using much less letting a group assemble and play baseball.
(02:31):
The churches often had baseball leagues and helped the most
qualified players or local teams with funding to continue to
play the game of baseball. The church also helped turn
baseball games into cultural events. The biggest games of the
week weren't Sundays, and patrons of the church not only
dressed up service, but also dressed up in their Sunday
(02:53):
best to go to the games and celebrate. Baseball games
were a place to be seen, a play sticks, wrush
yourself in, a place to see the most popular sport
in Ammica. Here's Ron Barr from Sports Byline USA who
points out the relationship with the church in baseball.
Speaker 2 (03:12):
I remember talking to Mudcat Grant one time and we
were talking about the Nigro legs and the importance of
baseball to the black community, and I told him I
was driving to the airport in South Florida one time
and I looked over to my right and there was
a little white church out in the middle of a field,
and behind it were a group of African Americans and
they were playing baseball. They were in their white shirts,
(03:33):
they still had their ties on from church and everything,
and that was such a vivid picture in my mind.
And he told me about how important it was for
black people to be able to have something that they
could call their own.
Speaker 3 (03:48):
And usually you could find a baseball ground right behind
the church. I couldn't remember, just like we was getting
ready to go back there and play right now. And
this kind of was the beginning of lots of the
parent who really wasn't that interested in baseball, but it
(04:10):
was kind of the beginning of them getting to like
baseball and they saw that their kids were stayed out
of trouble the one that I was engaged in baseball.
So it began to grow just from that. The churches,
(04:33):
you know, having the space in the back, and that
enabled us to play and we had some pretty good
I remember just a little boy, but we had some
good teams back there.
Speaker 1 (04:48):
That was Negro League pitcher Leo Westbrook recounting his days
as a child in the church. Kent State professor Leslie
Heffey weighs in on the importance of the role of
the church support.
Speaker 4 (05:01):
It's that support side of things, I think. So you
have Black church often in some communities, particularly smaller communities,
being that centerpiece and so h sometimes providing the actual
monetary support for local teams for kids to get their starts.
(05:22):
It was a place where the community went to sort
of start their day.
Speaker 1 (05:29):
Picture Eugene Scruggs remembers his days of playing at the
church baseball fields.
Speaker 5 (05:34):
Yeah, we played. We played there growing up and from
I'd say from like a teen years old Huai's in school,
we played on the same field and we played on
the field after we got got grown enough to play.
Speaker 1 (05:53):
Sambo Baseball Hall of Fame manager and first Basement Buck
O'Neil remembers the rivalries but between the churches during.
Speaker 6 (06:02):
That era, most churches now this is this is Semipo,
you know, just all towns. They had baseball, but they
had they had church. The Methodist against the bet.
Speaker 7 (06:19):
And what had to get out of the country.
Speaker 1 (06:21):
Right.
Speaker 4 (06:24):
The church in the black community is really this and
has long been, so it's not unique to the time
period you're talking about the mid twentieth century. The centerpiece
of many of the black communities, the place that they
turned to for both the spiritual side of things but
also community and support. Right, so often the only place
(06:47):
that historically in this country, black communities could turn to
where it was the church. And so the church, you know,
became that place where people found a safe haven, place
to find others that they could connect with. And so
it really was and that's why the black preacher, right
(07:10):
has played such a central role historically for the black community.
It's one of those very often educated individuals who people
could turn to for advice and help and somebody who
understood their experiences in a way. Obviously that going to
a white church even though the religious side is the same,
isn't going to get the experiences. The black church was
(07:32):
often the place where you not only went to go
to church, but you went for meals, you went for
Bible studies, you went the church often supported other community
events and things like that. And so now it was
also the place. And Kansas City is a good place
to see this. We have a lot of discussion in
(07:55):
Kansas City of the idea of the black church being
the place. For example, on Sunday go to church and
then you leave straight from there to go to the
to go to the baseball park and to watch them.
And so it was a chance to dress up. It
was a chance to show off, and that was important
as well. Weren't necessarily off and lots of places to
do that, so the church certainly played that role.
Speaker 1 (08:18):
Picture Eugene Scruggs remembers the crowds attire and likens it
to a religious happening.
Speaker 5 (08:23):
Well, you know back in the day that back in
the days the people would always come to they to
leave church and come to the ball game. They have
the hat and their suits and whatever they had to wear.
It that were all smoded and dressed up uh. And
they would come out to the game and you would
(08:44):
think you would be at a baptism somewhere, but but
it was, you know, that's the type of that's how
they either cared to say back then you would go
to the game and leave church and go and come
straight to the ballpark.
Speaker 1 (09:00):
Catcher and relief pitcher Ernest Fan remembers how baseball changed
the way that shirt sermons would deliver it.
Speaker 8 (09:07):
If you look at it from a true crew point
of view, that's all we had baseball. That's all black
African maren had with baseball. That's the reason those certain
parts and then that will pop that on Sunday, the
shortest sermon the preacher would preach, it's when it's trying
to play baseball.
Speaker 1 (09:30):
Baseball Hall of Fame manager and first basement Buck O'Neil
remembers how baseball was a common ground for social activity.
Speaker 6 (09:39):
Oh well, and oh man that the the black culture
that Nigo League was something. It was actually quite an event.
It was not on the sports. It was a social event.
Uh huh. And you know when when actually the the
(10:01):
influx of blacks and uh, World War One, when they
first came up to work in the pactress. Then uh,
then they organized the Negro leagues and the people played,
and then coming up with World War two, same thing.
And uh, actually Negro league were just about everything. I
(10:23):
pickause just say Washington, DC. At the the people that's
coming up from the South, some of them with more
or less a lot of 'em was the literate coming
out off of the cotton fields and all. And in Washington, DC,
the black bouge war. Well, and these people couldn't hang
(10:44):
with them, so but they knew baseball. So that was
the the Pittsburgh Colfridge, the Homestead, Greese, Baltimore, Eli Johns,
New Eagles. Well, they just blocked these ball games New
York Black Yaghis and oh it was quite a sight.
And you should have seen them. Everybody looked good. It
(11:08):
wasn't actually it was for people getting together. People getting together.
It was a social affair. And it wasn't too many
places that that that that the black folks could go
that joined themselves other than church, and uh maybe church
(11:33):
and jazz. So the big they just got to the
baseball park.
Speaker 4 (11:42):
Now today we go to the game and we wear
our jeans and T shirts and things, and we wear
the colors of the team. That wasn't the way most
fans went to see a game through the forties. Certainly
by the fifties that starts to change. But everybody dressed
up in a way that because it was an event
no matter when you went right, it was something that
you were that was outside the norm. It was something
(12:03):
you were paying for. It was something where you and
you knew you were going to be seen. And so
that's part of it. And you're representing your community, and
particularly within the black community, that idea of representation, I
think is is very significant as well. And so didn't
Yes Sunday maybe added that extra layer to it because
you're already going to church. But that was also true
(12:25):
on other days as well, particularly if a big team
was coming to town, you know, one of the the
Crawfords or the Grays or somebody like that, as opposed
to well, it's just the local community playing. You're still
going to go out and support, but it's not quite
the same thing as you want to. You want to
put it on the good display. You want to make
sure that those out of towners know that you were
(12:46):
you are supporting your community, You're supporting your boys.
Speaker 1 (12:49):
Here is pitcher Dennis Biddle, the youngest living Negro League
Baseball player and president and CEO of Yesterday's Negro League
Baseball Players. The organization helped support the surviving members of
the Negro League Baseball teams to defend their economic interest.
Dennis remembers when a game was in town, you could
(13:10):
leave church.
Speaker 7 (13:12):
All you have to do is look at some of
the old films, old pictures of the Negro League game
games they played on Sundays. If you look at the stands,
you will see people with necktime, women had had some
(13:35):
and you will say why they come to a game
all dressed up? They was coming from church. The minister
would turn church out early on Sunday so the members
to go to church. This happened time and time again and.
Speaker 4 (13:54):
So on Sundays. As a good example, again using Kansas City,
one of the things that we saw happening was people
go to church, they get all dressed up, and the
minister knew that the Kansas City monarchs were going to
be in town, for example, this Sunday, and so you
weren't going to go over in terms of me because
nobody was going to stay and literally wouldn't and so
(14:16):
it affected something as simple as how long is your
sermon going to be? Because you knew that everybody was
there and expected to head out to join the parade,
and that would often lead the players to the game.
And so that was not an uncommon So you know,
one Sunday, your sermon might be forty five minutes because
the Monarchs are and the next Sunday it might be
(14:36):
twenty five because the Monarchs are in town. And often
there would be references to the game and to going
out there and supporting the team appropriately and giving that
you know, kind of support to it. And so that's
one of the I think one of the best examples
of some of that, as you say, intersection between is
(14:58):
just thinking about literally what happened on a Sunday morning
in the recognition in Chicago, in Kansas City and some
of the bigger cities, that hey, if your team's in town,
that's where everybody is planning them going, so you better
not interfere with that.
Speaker 1 (15:12):
Author and Negro League baseball researcher Ken Perrin discusses the
popularity of Negro League baseball, but.
Speaker 9 (15:19):
The Negro League had at a large stan base going
back to the thirties and forties, they would get more
people to come to their All Star game than the
Major League. It was the third largest black business in
the country. People would go to the games. If you
look at old video clips, people would be dressed in
their Sundays best at these games and it was really
just a great community.
Speaker 1 (15:40):
Pitching Eugene Scruggs and author Don Roguson discuss how not
every church community felt the same way about playing baseball.
Speaker 5 (15:48):
On Sundays well, and read Mabottom that we didn't you know,
my parents, my grandmother and they thought he was a
sin see baseball on Sundays, and so we didn't play
on Sunday. We uh, we would play on there that
instead of the Sunday. But it was black up in
(16:10):
the way up in the foldays before we started playing
on Sunday, because that that was something that they think
you should go to churchill Sunday. And it wasn't no
baseball back yere in Alabama at that time.
Speaker 10 (16:25):
So there was a feeling that in some of the
black churches, you don't you don't play ball on Sunday.
And of course Sunday was an important day off, so
you get it both ways. For example, Satchel page Uh says,
you know, his mother never saw him play. She didn't
(16:47):
approve of playing on Sunday, and so I think it
cuts both both ways. It was an entertainment, you know,
in the days before air conditioning particularly, and before back
basketball became big, baseball was everything.
Speaker 1 (17:03):
Pitchers Leo Westbrook and Dennis Biddle discussed how the popularity
of the New Negro League started to make some changes
on Sundays.
Speaker 3 (17:12):
You know, I was playing with lots of full grown
men at the age of probably fourteen and fifteen years old,
and they will come to I can remember them coming
to our home and begging my mother to let us
come out and play, and it included playing on Sundays.
(17:34):
And my mother rejected to that, but they were so
insistent that eventually she said, well, as long as you
all go to church and you know, come to church
in the morning, I'll let you play in the afternoon.
So that's you know, that was the breaking point, and
we were it was a mixture of thirteen and fourteen
(17:57):
year old kids like myself, my brother and the others
that was playing, Like I said, playing with these grown
up someone probably in their thirties and maybe forties.
Speaker 7 (18:11):
When I was growing up, The last punishment I got
was going to play baseball. The city team offered me
seventy five cents to pitch for them. They was playing
a game and I was supposed to have been at
(18:31):
Sunday school church. But for seventy five cents, I went
to the ball game and I was pitching when my
daddy came in and got me off the field. It
took me back to church. That was embarrassment to me
(18:51):
for my daddy to do that, but I had disobeyed
something I was supposed to have done, to do what
I wanted to do. The next Sunday, I sneaked off.
We went to Spring here, Louisiana, and I sneaked off
and went with the teens because I had pitched a
(19:15):
couple of dings and I asked my seventy five cent.
They said, you didn't pitched the game. So the next
time I went losing and I did get paid my
seventy five cents. But that was and my daddy never
said anything else to me about playing. Uh, even though
(19:38):
I was you know, I grew up in the church,
but I knew there was something I wanted to do.
I'm getting the aids now and uh he uh overlooked it.
Speaker 1 (19:56):
Behind the Barrier voices from the Negro Leagues. Is now
rated by Bill Overton, produced by Taylor Haber. Executive producers
are Jason Wykelt, Darren Peck, and Ron BArch. Please check
out our next episode as well as the episodes in
this series. This series is distributed by Sports Byline USA
(20:16):
and the eight Side Network
Host
Bill Overton
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