March 18, 2020 • 21 mins
Meet Jack Conte: talented artist and founder of Patreon. He's the man who's work has allowed countless influencers to monetize off their creations. Jack sat down with us to talk about why and how he started the platform that changed the game for so many people. We discuss why monetizing is so hard, and how important it is for creators to be able to focus on the art rather than how they are going to survive. You'll also hear about Jack's own musical background and process as a creator. Aspiring artists, don't miss this one!
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to Behind the Influence, a production of I Heart
Radio and t DC Media. Having spent ten grand on
this thing that's going to reach a million people. It's
not like I'm a starming artist and I'm like, I
can't find an audience. Like I found my crew on
the people who like what I have to say, and
I put that on the web and then I get
a millions. I've reached a million people around the world
(00:21):
and I get paid a hundred and fifty bucks. Like,
what the fun kind of system if we built? It's bullshit,
That's not what. That's not why you're valuable in the
world because you make T shirts. You're valuable because you
tell stories that people love that resonate with your fans.
If you have ten thou people who listen to your show,
that's a basketball stadium full of humans who love what
(00:41):
you have to say. Like, in what world should that
not be enough to make a living? Jack Conti's in
the house. Hello, you are so in the house finally, Right, Wait,
a little bit of a snaffo this afternoon, and I'm
totally fine to talk about it. But you know it's cool,
it's a holiday. We just show up. I are we
got in despite the fact that there's nobody else in
(01:03):
this building, but somehow we've got in. Forty one minutes
and fifteen seconds later. Jack is already one of my
favorite people on Earth because when this snaphoo occurred, he
was like, I'm cool, I'm chill, and he actually was,
and you were like, the happiest kill this person ever happen.
I just repeated it so clearly, which ship happens? You
(01:25):
see what I did? Drop dropped an f on. So
Jack Conte has started a small platform called Patreon. We
all know it. We all want to be on it.
Not all of us are cool enough to be honest,
just kidding, we all are, but it's the reason so
many creators are able to create. And you are such
(01:45):
an inspiration because I was telling Jack this before the interview.
As you guys know, behind the influence is all about
people who are literally behind the influence, the people who
create the platforms that allow social media influencers to be
social medi The influencers are creators, and Jack also happens
to be very musically talented and has a creator passed
(02:07):
and present. So you fall on two sides of the coin.
How does that like how do you even balance the two?
It's really hard. The first five years of the company,
I didn't nail it. So actually that was a real
struggle for me. And actually it was probably a little
bit of there was some darkness there for me trying
to figure out how to balance it because I felt like,
oh God, I'm giving up my creative career and I
love being a creator, and so it was really hard
(02:29):
because you know, I was becoming like a you know,
an operator and building a company and I actually kind
of had to stop creating for a couple of years.
So that was that was pretty rough. But then in
the last three years, I've really found a way to
to still be prolific and make things. I fly down
to l a once a month now and I do
four music videos with one band, four with another band,
and then we you know, I'm at this point now
(02:49):
I'm releasing eight music videos a month. So that's a lot.
How do you find the time and you're the founder
of a massive, massive platform that you're very much involved in.
It's not like you've just stepped aside. Now that's super successful. Yeah,
I mean I'm I'm there, you know, of course, every
single day and I'm working more than every day, you know,
on on the making Patreon a thing. Yes, starting a
(03:12):
company is a is a triple time job. It's not
the kind of thing you can just kind of not
to because you can't have asked these things. No, it's
you can't. And yeah, it's been you know, I've I've
worked more in my life, you know, on Patreon that
I've worked ever on it. I mean it's been so intense,
So so yeah, that has been you know, rewarding hard.
(03:34):
Recently being able to in the last three years, being
able to combine it with being a creator again has
made me feel like so I feel like I got
my pilot light, you know, turned back on. You know,
it feels nice. You know how some artists become managers
of other artists and they're like, now, where's where's my moment,
where's my stage? You know, like I would imagine that
(03:55):
it could be hard to see other people creating when
you really want to create, but you're also creating something
but on a different level. Absolutely. Yeah, Before I figured
out a way to kind of be a creator and
do the business, well, let's see, the secret was amazing
working with amazing people and letting go a little bit
(04:15):
of all the details. It was really hard because as
a creator, as an artist like I, you know, when
we when pap Mouse originally was making music, I was,
you know, doing all the instrumentation, all the mixing, all
the mastering. You know. Um, it was still a partnership
with Natalie, but but I had full I had my hands.
I was sculpting the whole thing, from the video to
(04:37):
the editing to everything. And um, now Papa Mouse is
like fifteen contractors right and like, and we've slowly let
go of like, Okay, we're letting go to the video editing. Okay,
We're letting go to the audio mixing. Okay, we're letting
go to the mastering. Okay, now we're gonna let go
some of the production. And like, one step at a time,
you kind of take a step back, but you still
get to do the things that are exciting to you
(04:57):
as an artist and that give you a voice as
an art So I still feel like, you know, before
we were able to do that, I kind of felt
like I didn't have vocal chords anymore. I was like,
oh ship, like somebody took my vocal ques. I can't
speak anymore. And now I feel like I got my
vocal chords back, and even though my voice is a
little different than it used to be in some ways,
it's like even more exciting and more beautiful and more
fun because it combines the creativity of other people too.
(05:19):
It's not just my soul vision. It's like the vision
of this wonderful group of fifteen people, and they get
to be creative and do their thing. So it's been
really wonderful. You are a very talented musician. What came first,
the music or the startup? Oh gosh, the music came.
I mean, yeah, I've been playing music since I was six.
I newly answer to that. By the way, You're like,
(05:41):
you're not one of these people who's like, oh, I
have a platform, let me just do whatever. This is
something you've been doing for a very long time. Well,
I mean Patreon came about because I was a full
time professional career. I mean I bought a house off
of MP three sales from from pample News. You know,
we came out with records all the time, and put
up YouTube videos and built a studio from our from
(06:01):
our you know, our our music income. So it was
a professional, full time creator until Patreona Patreons my first job.
I've never had a job before, so this is my
first time like going on an office or kind of
a little wild and crazy too because I have zero context.
So I'm just kind of you know, I'm I'm I'm
(06:23):
trying to do all this for the first time. It
is sense. You were living it because you this was
something that was missing from your life. You didn't just
create Patreon because you were like, oh, this is a
really cool idea that you'll see like on some home
shopping network that you thought was some great invention. This
was something that would affect your life directly. Yeah, I
as an as a creator. Um, I had just finished
(06:47):
a music video that I spent about ten thousand bucks on.
I drained my savings account. I maxed out to credit
cards to make time. I was twenty eight. Were you
married at the time. Now, I wasn't married. So it's
a video called Pedal and it's on my personal YouTube channel.
You will love this. Stephen Steven, our camera guy DP
master of all Things. But yeah, it's awesome. It's it's
(07:09):
a wild video. Yeah. I literally built by hand. I
built a replica of Lennium Falcon cockpit to be the
set for the video. I mean, like I built the
whole thing like hot gluing things, and like it took
me three months. I mean I was working nineteen hour days.
My hands were like cracked and bloody and painted, and
like I was, I mean, I was all in on
this video. It's a lot of money for I'm thinking
(07:31):
about when I was twenty eight dropping ten stacks on
something like that's insane. It was insane. I it was
not a good idea. I mean it was it worked out,
It worked out. It was illogical, though, and I knew
that going in. I was like, you know what, I'm
going to be illogical right now, because yeah, my life
just lets there you go. I was like going to
(07:53):
home Depot and Joann's Fabrics and like it was a
crazy time. Not sponsored, but the idea something. I mean,
the old reason that Patreon came up was because I
was about to post this video that I like poured
my soul into. When I posted videos at that time,
they got about a million views. So I knew I'd
get about a million views and I came with this
video and I'd get my ad revenue check for me
to be a hundred and fifty bucks, and I couldn't
(08:15):
stomach the idea of having spent ten grand on this
thing that's gonna reach a million people. It's not like
I'm a starming artist, and I'm like, I can't find
an audience, Like I found my crew on the people
who like what I have to say, and I put
that on the web and then I get a million.
I've reached a million people around the world and I
get paid a hundred and fifty bucks. Like what the
funk kind of system? It's bullshit? And that that was
(08:39):
the thing. I thought, There's got to be a better
way here. There's gotta be a way, like if you
involve fans, fans want to help, they want to support,
you know, you know that I've sort of sketched out
this idea for a membership platform like k qe ed
or you know, um a w B e Z in
Chicago or sf Moment where people, you know, the fans
of a thing can pay five bucks a month or
ten bucks a month in exchange for exclusive access or whatever.
(09:02):
And uh and it worked, and here we are and
here we are. So I've interviewed a ton of YouTubers
who are wanting to leave YouTube, and they're very very
honest about it. And it's because of what you just said.
They put their heart and soul into these the content
that they make, and content is getting really good. You know,
(09:23):
people are putting a lot of money into their content.
And then so many of them has have said to me,
that's why I put content on Patreon. I put my
quality content there. It's like their entrepreneurs of their own world.
And that's why companies like Patreon work. That's why companies
like fan Joy work. Which I interviewed Chris who is
the founder of fan Why am I stuttering? So I
(09:46):
interviewed Chris, the founder of fan Joy. That's why it's
hard founder of found they founder, Yes, nailed it, Okay,
that's basically was his business model too. Like, these creators
are making more money selling T shirts and hoodies than
they are on YouTube, which is like, what the hell
(10:08):
year are we in and what what system of converting
content into paychecks for the people who make the content
have we built and deployed globally such that your best
chance at making it as a creator is freaking putting
your logo on a T shirt and selling a T
shirt that's not what That's not why you're valuable in
the world because you make T shirts. You're valuable because
(10:28):
you tell stories that people love that resonate with your fans. Like,
we should have a system where the stories that creators
tell that resonate with their fans, where that is their
business and you don't have to do all the other
extraneous bullshit to kind of cobble together a living. That's
a dumb system. And unfortunately that's the reality for creators
right now. I mean, at the end of every YouTube video,
(10:50):
it's like swipe up for this merch It's like that's
how Joejoe's bows for Jojo Siwa, and like all the
hoodies that Jake Paul sells, that's how they're making their money.
And I think what we've essentially, yeah, the the kind
of state of the industry that we're in right now
is we've figured out, you know, in order to zooming
way out for a second, in order to kind of
put up the first phase of the web, we basically
(11:12):
made the web free, right we said, the web is free.
You pay with your attention and with your privacy. Because
what we essentially do to we track every movement you
make on the web, and then we sell information about
you aggregated, but we sell information about you two people
who want to change your behavior, advertisers. You know, Um,
I don't know how deep I can get, but that's
(11:37):
essentially what I just described as the economic engine that
drives the production of content on the web. Right now,
consumers pay with their privacy and with their personal information
and with their attention, and that gets converted into the
paycheck for creators. But it turns out that essentially that's
a very inefficient system and it takes millions of people, millions,
(11:57):
because advertisers are interested in reaching millions of people. It
takes millions of people in order to convert to a
paycheck for a creator. Whereas if you have ten thou
people who listen to your show, that's a basketball stadium
full of humans who love what you have to say. Like,
in what world should that not be enough to make
a living like that? We need a system on the
(12:18):
web where ten people is enough. And that system is
more like a consumer payment system. It's more like heck
freaking Disney is doing it now. Disney plus New York
Times is doing it. They have a subscription portion of
New York Times, which is now bigger than their advertising business.
So consumer payments is you know, going back to what
I said before, you know, in terms of phases of
(12:40):
the web, that initial phase of the web where the
primary economic driver is this advertising model. We're shifting to
a new phase. I think over the next you know,
decade or two, ten to twenty years, we're going to
see consumer payments start to be Yeah, I think that's
gonna happen. I mean, it's already happening. It is, it is,
and your want of the driving forces in that, So
(13:01):
you should be really happy about that. Yeah. For people
who don't understand how Patreon works, would you mind us
giving a high level explanation of the platform. Yeah. So
the way Patreon works is a fan can pay five
bucks a month, ten bucks a month, hunter bucks a
month at honestly, whatever the tiers the creator creates. Fan
can pay a subscription pledge to a creator in exchange
(13:24):
for exclusive community, early access, extra episodes, behind the scenes, interviews,
extra photos, basically extra content and community and interaction. Um
and Patreon is the system that allows creators flexibility to
build and run whatever membership they want if they want
to have, you know, five dollar, ten dollar, hundred dollar
if they want to have twenty five fifty two D
(13:46):
and then you can load whatever benefits you want into
those tiers early access, exclusive access, exclusive community. We have
integrations with community platforms, all this kind of stuff, so
you can kind of do whatever you want to do
as a creator, and for creators, it's an amazing way
to essentially build a super close fan base. You own
your audience as a creator, Like you get their email addresses,
(14:07):
like on what other platform you get the email addresses
of the people that are actually like fans of you,
and you make so much more money than you would
buy ad revenue. We have creators making literally fifty to
two times what they make through ad revenue by just
letting their fans contribute five bucks a month for an
extra episode these tears, do you guys control them in
(14:27):
any way? Like you can't have Let's say somebody wants
to do something kind of salacious for like, do you
guys have any type of because I would imagine just
in this world and the culture we live in, that
there might be some scandal, right, how do you control that?
And do you at all? Or are you like free
the nipple, who cares? So I mean so, uh, we
(14:51):
actually do allow on nudity on Patreon, but we don't
allow porn, and so yes, we have to be very
careful about that. And um, it's amazing how the internet
will surprise you with new types of anything. Um. And
so it requires quite a few people. Actually ten percent
of Patreon's employees are people devoted to the problem that
you just talked about. It's like, hey, how do we
(15:13):
define what is allowed and what is not and be
really thoughtful about it because we're talking about a person's
income here, Like it's we're not talking about you know,
posting pictures. We're talking about your paycheck as a human.
So that's a lot of responsibility that we have to
take very seriously and really put our money where our
mouth is to make sure we're making good, thoughtful decisions.
We have no automated takedowns. Humans make every single decision.
(15:36):
They're right twelve page reports before they do anything like that.
To make sure that we're being really like a creator
friendly put a lot of red tape involved in making
a decision like that, as as there should be from
from my perspective as a creator, because you have a
flight to catch to maybe do a music video or ten.
(15:57):
What advice would you give someone who wants to go
on and pay drown and be a successful creator on
the on the site. Step one is make great stuff
that your fans love. Um, if you don't quite have
a fan base yet, uh, Patreon doesn't work as well
for you. Um. It's really a membership platform. It works
(16:18):
great for creators who are who have already kind of
found what they want to make and then seeing that
reach people. So this isn't like a throw ship to
the ceiling and see what stick. This is like a
come with your audience. Yeah, exactly. And it's not, Um,
it's not that we don't care about solving that particular problem,
or it's not that we don't want to help folks
find fans. It's just we're being at a startup. You
(16:39):
have to prioritize and so we're saying, Okay, you know
the problem we're gonna solve versus. So you're getting a
bunch of views on YouTube, but you're not making any money.
That's the problem Patreons focused on. And we're going to
tackle other problems like the ones you just mentioned eventually
in our life as a company. But um, but yeah, advice,
make great stuff that you love, that your fans are
(17:00):
passionate about um, and just make it awesome. And then
when you when you're proud of it, and when you
see it resonating with other folks, start a Patreon page,
and honestly, at that point, just be be yourself, be honest,
tell your fans what's going on, invite them in on
the journey. UM. The creators who love their fans and
whose fans love them back, they do the best on
(17:21):
the platform. I love that, Jack CONTI everyone my new
best friends. Thanks for having me. Of course I wish
this could have been longer, but again snafus, it happens.
But I do want to have you come back because
I want to do an entire thing on music. If
that works for you. Cool sounds great, of course, it's cool.
You're the personalized All right, we'll have a safe flight.
(17:42):
I got you out of here at one seconds. I
was keeping an eye on it. That is with a
k pro level time management right there. All right, Well,
we'll see you soon. Okay, thanks, thanks you are you
are you? I hate your friends and made me too.
(18:07):
I'm through. I'm through. I'm thro this ak Obama anthem,
turn it up and don't attendrum this a ourck obama
and them turn it up and throw attendroom this, I
throw up in your broken bag. Look up with someone
man know this that social aqua too, aside that byr
lips and bio lights house where she had a membership,
(18:28):
hit different when it stays in my dad, I try
about music every day like the cheet me do they
and my Friensillandinois, but go down here we go stupid
this I think on the table just so we can
be secluded. And the faker came to loot it one
more out on sober human bob You and you and
you I ain't your friends and they ain't me to
(18:52):
unt I'm through anto this a ack obama anthom turn
it up and throw a dantroom fun. You and you
and you I ain't good friends and they hate me
to fuck you and you and you with this our hyprobama,
(19:12):
and I'm hurt it up and go attention this hyprobama
dou Sif they can't box me in, I'm blue as
this that truth that's one of my quotions can fit
me in the children out of pocket, but I'm always
in my back. Yeah, that's so open. Who's all that
I'm pulling up with an email trick? That's back in
this psychia Trumbo music. Every day that we get me
(19:33):
do think and my friends are all annoying, but we
go down here, we go through with the second on
the table just so we can be suppluted. And the
pocket came eluted one more. I'm so forging buck you
and you and you. I hate your friends and they
hate me too. I'm through. I'm through. I'm through this
(19:57):
hypro Obama and I'm burning up and going tend to
bok you and you and you. I hate your friends
and may hate me to suck you and you and
you do this apple Bama and them turn it up
and throw attention. Suck you, Sucu and you and you
(20:33):
do I hate your friends and they hate me? Do
not do I'm do I'm dou his ePRO Boma and
them burn it up and go atten your walk you
and you and you. I hate your friends and they
hate me. Do bucku? You and you and you DEI
(20:57):
no Boma and them burt it up. The don't work man,
fuck you. Behind the influence of the production of I
Heart Radio and TDC Media
Welcome to Behind the Influence, a production of I Heart
Radio and t DC Media. Having spent ten grand on
this thing that's going to reach a million people. It's
not like I'm a starming artist and I'm like, I
can't find an audience. Like I found my crew on
the people who like what I have to say, and
I put that on the web and then I get
a millions. I've reached a million people around the world
(00:21):
and I get paid a hundred and fifty bucks. Like,
what the fun kind of system if we built? It's bullshit,
That's not what. That's not why you're valuable in the
world because you make T shirts. You're valuable because you
tell stories that people love that resonate with your fans.
If you have ten thou people who listen to your show,
that's a basketball stadium full of humans who love what
(00:41):
you have to say. Like, in what world should that
not be enough to make a living? Jack Conti's in
the house. Hello, you are so in the house finally, Right, Wait,
a little bit of a snaffo this afternoon, and I'm
totally fine to talk about it. But you know it's cool,
it's a holiday. We just show up. I are we
got in despite the fact that there's nobody else in
(01:03):
this building, but somehow we've got in. Forty one minutes
and fifteen seconds later. Jack is already one of my
favorite people on Earth because when this snaphoo occurred, he
was like, I'm cool, I'm chill, and he actually was,
and you were like, the happiest kill this person ever happen.
I just repeated it so clearly, which ship happens? You
(01:25):
see what I did? Drop dropped an f on. So
Jack Conte has started a small platform called Patreon. We
all know it. We all want to be on it.
Not all of us are cool enough to be honest,
just kidding, we all are, but it's the reason so
many creators are able to create. And you are such
(01:45):
an inspiration because I was telling Jack this before the interview.
As you guys know, behind the influence is all about
people who are literally behind the influence, the people who
create the platforms that allow social media influencers to be
social medi The influencers are creators, and Jack also happens
to be very musically talented and has a creator passed
(02:07):
and present. So you fall on two sides of the coin.
How does that like how do you even balance the two?
It's really hard. The first five years of the company,
I didn't nail it. So actually that was a real
struggle for me. And actually it was probably a little
bit of there was some darkness there for me trying
to figure out how to balance it because I felt like,
oh God, I'm giving up my creative career and I
love being a creator, and so it was really hard
(02:29):
because you know, I was becoming like a you know,
an operator and building a company and I actually kind
of had to stop creating for a couple of years.
So that was that was pretty rough. But then in
the last three years, I've really found a way to
to still be prolific and make things. I fly down
to l a once a month now and I do
four music videos with one band, four with another band,
and then we you know, I'm at this point now
(02:49):
I'm releasing eight music videos a month. So that's a lot.
How do you find the time and you're the founder
of a massive, massive platform that you're very much involved in.
It's not like you've just stepped aside. Now that's super successful. Yeah,
I mean I'm I'm there, you know, of course, every
single day and I'm working more than every day, you know,
on on the making Patreon a thing. Yes, starting a
(03:12):
company is a is a triple time job. It's not
the kind of thing you can just kind of not
to because you can't have asked these things. No, it's
you can't. And yeah, it's been you know, I've I've
worked more in my life, you know, on Patreon that
I've worked ever on it. I mean it's been so intense,
So so yeah, that has been you know, rewarding hard.
(03:34):
Recently being able to in the last three years, being
able to combine it with being a creator again has
made me feel like so I feel like I got
my pilot light, you know, turned back on. You know,
it feels nice. You know how some artists become managers
of other artists and they're like, now, where's where's my moment,
where's my stage? You know, like I would imagine that
(03:55):
it could be hard to see other people creating when
you really want to create, but you're also creating something
but on a different level. Absolutely. Yeah, Before I figured
out a way to kind of be a creator and
do the business, well, let's see, the secret was amazing
working with amazing people and letting go a little bit
(04:15):
of all the details. It was really hard because as
a creator, as an artist like I, you know, when
we when pap Mouse originally was making music, I was,
you know, doing all the instrumentation, all the mixing, all
the mastering. You know. Um, it was still a partnership
with Natalie, but but I had full I had my hands.
I was sculpting the whole thing, from the video to
(04:37):
the editing to everything. And um, now Papa Mouse is
like fifteen contractors right and like, and we've slowly let
go of like, Okay, we're letting go to the video editing. Okay,
We're letting go to the audio mixing. Okay, we're letting
go to the mastering. Okay, now we're gonna let go
some of the production. And like, one step at a time,
you kind of take a step back, but you still
get to do the things that are exciting to you
(04:57):
as an artist and that give you a voice as
an art So I still feel like, you know, before
we were able to do that, I kind of felt
like I didn't have vocal chords anymore. I was like,
oh ship, like somebody took my vocal ques. I can't
speak anymore. And now I feel like I got my
vocal chords back, and even though my voice is a
little different than it used to be in some ways,
it's like even more exciting and more beautiful and more
fun because it combines the creativity of other people too.
(05:19):
It's not just my soul vision. It's like the vision
of this wonderful group of fifteen people, and they get
to be creative and do their thing. So it's been
really wonderful. You are a very talented musician. What came first,
the music or the startup? Oh gosh, the music came.
I mean, yeah, I've been playing music since I was six.
I newly answer to that. By the way, You're like,
(05:41):
you're not one of these people who's like, oh, I
have a platform, let me just do whatever. This is
something you've been doing for a very long time. Well,
I mean Patreon came about because I was a full
time professional career. I mean I bought a house off
of MP three sales from from pample News. You know,
we came out with records all the time, and put
up YouTube videos and built a studio from our from
(06:01):
our you know, our our music income. So it was
a professional, full time creator until Patreona Patreons my first job.
I've never had a job before, so this is my
first time like going on an office or kind of
a little wild and crazy too because I have zero context.
So I'm just kind of you know, I'm I'm I'm
(06:23):
trying to do all this for the first time. It
is sense. You were living it because you this was
something that was missing from your life. You didn't just
create Patreon because you were like, oh, this is a
really cool idea that you'll see like on some home
shopping network that you thought was some great invention. This
was something that would affect your life directly. Yeah, I
as an as a creator. Um, I had just finished
(06:47):
a music video that I spent about ten thousand bucks on.
I drained my savings account. I maxed out to credit
cards to make time. I was twenty eight. Were you
married at the time. Now, I wasn't married. So it's
a video called Pedal and it's on my personal YouTube channel.
You will love this. Stephen Steven, our camera guy DP
master of all Things. But yeah, it's awesome. It's it's
(07:09):
a wild video. Yeah. I literally built by hand. I
built a replica of Lennium Falcon cockpit to be the
set for the video. I mean, like I built the
whole thing like hot gluing things, and like it took
me three months. I mean I was working nineteen hour days.
My hands were like cracked and bloody and painted, and
like I was, I mean, I was all in on
this video. It's a lot of money for I'm thinking
(07:31):
about when I was twenty eight dropping ten stacks on
something like that's insane. It was insane. I it was
not a good idea. I mean it was it worked out,
It worked out. It was illogical, though, and I knew
that going in. I was like, you know what, I'm
going to be illogical right now, because yeah, my life
just lets there you go. I was like going to
(07:53):
home Depot and Joann's Fabrics and like it was a
crazy time. Not sponsored, but the idea something. I mean,
the old reason that Patreon came up was because I
was about to post this video that I like poured
my soul into. When I posted videos at that time,
they got about a million views. So I knew I'd
get about a million views and I came with this
video and I'd get my ad revenue check for me
to be a hundred and fifty bucks, and I couldn't
(08:15):
stomach the idea of having spent ten grand on this
thing that's gonna reach a million people. It's not like
I'm a starming artist, and I'm like, I can't find
an audience, Like I found my crew on the people
who like what I have to say, and I put
that on the web and then I get a million.
I've reached a million people around the world and I
get paid a hundred and fifty bucks. Like what the
funk kind of system? It's bullshit? And that that was
(08:39):
the thing. I thought, There's got to be a better
way here. There's gotta be a way, like if you
involve fans, fans want to help, they want to support,
you know, you know that I've sort of sketched out
this idea for a membership platform like k qe ed
or you know, um a w B e Z in
Chicago or sf Moment where people, you know, the fans
of a thing can pay five bucks a month or
ten bucks a month in exchange for exclusive access or whatever.
(09:02):
And uh and it worked, and here we are and
here we are. So I've interviewed a ton of YouTubers
who are wanting to leave YouTube, and they're very very
honest about it. And it's because of what you just said.
They put their heart and soul into these the content
that they make, and content is getting really good. You know,
(09:23):
people are putting a lot of money into their content.
And then so many of them has have said to me,
that's why I put content on Patreon. I put my
quality content there. It's like their entrepreneurs of their own world.
And that's why companies like Patreon work. That's why companies
like fan Joy work. Which I interviewed Chris who is
the founder of fan Why am I stuttering? So I
(09:46):
interviewed Chris, the founder of fan Joy. That's why it's
hard founder of found they founder, Yes, nailed it, Okay,
that's basically was his business model too. Like, these creators
are making more money selling T shirts and hoodies than
they are on YouTube, which is like, what the hell
(10:08):
year are we in and what what system of converting
content into paychecks for the people who make the content
have we built and deployed globally such that your best
chance at making it as a creator is freaking putting
your logo on a T shirt and selling a T
shirt that's not what That's not why you're valuable in
the world because you make T shirts. You're valuable because
(10:28):
you tell stories that people love that resonate with your fans. Like,
we should have a system where the stories that creators
tell that resonate with their fans, where that is their
business and you don't have to do all the other
extraneous bullshit to kind of cobble together a living. That's
a dumb system. And unfortunately that's the reality for creators
right now. I mean, at the end of every YouTube video,
(10:50):
it's like swipe up for this merch It's like that's
how Joejoe's bows for Jojo Siwa, and like all the
hoodies that Jake Paul sells, that's how they're making their money.
And I think what we've essentially, yeah, the the kind
of state of the industry that we're in right now
is we've figured out, you know, in order to zooming
way out for a second, in order to kind of
put up the first phase of the web, we basically
(11:12):
made the web free, right we said, the web is free.
You pay with your attention and with your privacy. Because
what we essentially do to we track every movement you
make on the web, and then we sell information about
you aggregated, but we sell information about you two people
who want to change your behavior, advertisers. You know, Um,
I don't know how deep I can get, but that's
(11:37):
essentially what I just described as the economic engine that
drives the production of content on the web. Right now,
consumers pay with their privacy and with their personal information
and with their attention, and that gets converted into the
paycheck for creators. But it turns out that essentially that's
a very inefficient system and it takes millions of people, millions,
(11:57):
because advertisers are interested in reaching millions of people. It
takes millions of people in order to convert to a
paycheck for a creator. Whereas if you have ten thou
people who listen to your show, that's a basketball stadium
full of humans who love what you have to say. Like,
in what world should that not be enough to make
a living like that? We need a system on the
(12:18):
web where ten people is enough. And that system is
more like a consumer payment system. It's more like heck
freaking Disney is doing it now. Disney plus New York
Times is doing it. They have a subscription portion of
New York Times, which is now bigger than their advertising business.
So consumer payments is you know, going back to what
I said before, you know, in terms of phases of
(12:40):
the web, that initial phase of the web where the
primary economic driver is this advertising model. We're shifting to
a new phase. I think over the next you know,
decade or two, ten to twenty years, we're going to
see consumer payments start to be Yeah, I think that's
gonna happen. I mean, it's already happening. It is, it is,
and your want of the driving forces in that, So
(13:01):
you should be really happy about that. Yeah. For people
who don't understand how Patreon works, would you mind us
giving a high level explanation of the platform. Yeah. So
the way Patreon works is a fan can pay five
bucks a month, ten bucks a month, hunter bucks a
month at honestly, whatever the tiers the creator creates. Fan
can pay a subscription pledge to a creator in exchange
(13:24):
for exclusive community, early access, extra episodes, behind the scenes, interviews,
extra photos, basically extra content and community and interaction. Um
and Patreon is the system that allows creators flexibility to
build and run whatever membership they want if they want
to have, you know, five dollar, ten dollar, hundred dollar
if they want to have twenty five fifty two D
(13:46):
and then you can load whatever benefits you want into
those tiers early access, exclusive access, exclusive community. We have
integrations with community platforms, all this kind of stuff, so
you can kind of do whatever you want to do
as a creator, and for creators, it's an amazing way
to essentially build a super close fan base. You own
your audience as a creator, Like you get their email addresses,
(14:07):
like on what other platform you get the email addresses
of the people that are actually like fans of you,
and you make so much more money than you would
buy ad revenue. We have creators making literally fifty to
two times what they make through ad revenue by just
letting their fans contribute five bucks a month for an
extra episode these tears, do you guys control them in
(14:27):
any way? Like you can't have Let's say somebody wants
to do something kind of salacious for like, do you
guys have any type of because I would imagine just
in this world and the culture we live in, that
there might be some scandal, right, how do you control that?
And do you at all? Or are you like free
the nipple, who cares? So I mean so, uh, we
(14:51):
actually do allow on nudity on Patreon, but we don't
allow porn, and so yes, we have to be very
careful about that. And um, it's amazing how the internet
will surprise you with new types of anything. Um. And
so it requires quite a few people. Actually ten percent
of Patreon's employees are people devoted to the problem that
you just talked about. It's like, hey, how do we
(15:13):
define what is allowed and what is not and be
really thoughtful about it because we're talking about a person's
income here, Like it's we're not talking about you know,
posting pictures. We're talking about your paycheck as a human.
So that's a lot of responsibility that we have to
take very seriously and really put our money where our
mouth is to make sure we're making good, thoughtful decisions.
We have no automated takedowns. Humans make every single decision.
(15:36):
They're right twelve page reports before they do anything like that.
To make sure that we're being really like a creator
friendly put a lot of red tape involved in making
a decision like that, as as there should be from
from my perspective as a creator, because you have a
flight to catch to maybe do a music video or ten.
(15:57):
What advice would you give someone who wants to go
on and pay drown and be a successful creator on
the on the site. Step one is make great stuff
that your fans love. Um, if you don't quite have
a fan base yet, uh, Patreon doesn't work as well
for you. Um. It's really a membership platform. It works
(16:18):
great for creators who are who have already kind of
found what they want to make and then seeing that
reach people. So this isn't like a throw ship to
the ceiling and see what stick. This is like a
come with your audience. Yeah, exactly. And it's not, Um,
it's not that we don't care about solving that particular problem,
or it's not that we don't want to help folks
find fans. It's just we're being at a startup. You
(16:39):
have to prioritize and so we're saying, Okay, you know
the problem we're gonna solve versus. So you're getting a
bunch of views on YouTube, but you're not making any money.
That's the problem Patreons focused on. And we're going to
tackle other problems like the ones you just mentioned eventually
in our life as a company. But um, but yeah, advice,
make great stuff that you love, that your fans are
(17:00):
passionate about um, and just make it awesome. And then
when you when you're proud of it, and when you
see it resonating with other folks, start a Patreon page,
and honestly, at that point, just be be yourself, be honest,
tell your fans what's going on, invite them in on
the journey. UM. The creators who love their fans and
whose fans love them back, they do the best on
(17:21):
the platform. I love that, Jack CONTI everyone my new
best friends. Thanks for having me. Of course I wish
this could have been longer, but again snafus, it happens.
But I do want to have you come back because
I want to do an entire thing on music. If
that works for you. Cool sounds great, of course, it's cool.
You're the personalized All right, we'll have a safe flight.
(17:42):
I got you out of here at one seconds. I
was keeping an eye on it. That is with a
k pro level time management right there. All right, Well,
we'll see you soon. Okay, thanks, thanks you are you
are you? I hate your friends and made me too.
(18:07):
I'm through. I'm through. I'm thro this ak Obama anthem,
turn it up and don't attendrum this a ourck obama
and them turn it up and throw attendroom this, I
throw up in your broken bag. Look up with someone
man know this that social aqua too, aside that byr
lips and bio lights house where she had a membership,
(18:28):
hit different when it stays in my dad, I try
about music every day like the cheet me do they
and my Friensillandinois, but go down here we go stupid
this I think on the table just so we can
be secluded. And the faker came to loot it one
more out on sober human bob You and you and
you I ain't your friends and they ain't me to
(18:52):
unt I'm through anto this a ack obama anthom turn
it up and throw a dantroom fun. You and you
and you I ain't good friends and they hate me
to fuck you and you and you with this our hyprobama,
(19:12):
and I'm hurt it up and go attention this hyprobama
dou Sif they can't box me in, I'm blue as
this that truth that's one of my quotions can fit
me in the children out of pocket, but I'm always
in my back. Yeah, that's so open. Who's all that
I'm pulling up with an email trick? That's back in
this psychia Trumbo music. Every day that we get me
(19:33):
do think and my friends are all annoying, but we
go down here, we go through with the second on
the table just so we can be suppluted. And the
pocket came eluted one more. I'm so forging buck you
and you and you. I hate your friends and they
hate me too. I'm through. I'm through. I'm through this
(19:57):
hypro Obama and I'm burning up and going tend to
bok you and you and you. I hate your friends
and may hate me to suck you and you and
you do this apple Bama and them turn it up
and throw attention. Suck you, Sucu and you and you
(20:33):
do I hate your friends and they hate me? Do
not do I'm do I'm dou his ePRO Boma and
them burn it up and go atten your walk you
and you and you. I hate your friends and they
hate me. Do bucku? You and you and you DEI
(20:57):
no Boma and them burt it up. The don't work man,
fuck you. Behind the influence of the production of I
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