Musicians Mash Up: Jake Paul, Gabbie Hanna, and Macy Kate

In this mashup episode, we highlight top digital influencers, Jake Paul, Gabbie Hanna, and Macy Kate, who have all successfully made the transition from YouTube to mainstream music. These influencers used the platforms they built online to help launch their careers as artists. While each has a very different story, they all share similar qualities. Jake and Macy talk about moving to LA to get their careers started, Jake and Gabbie talk about the hate they received from decisions in their past, and they share stories of their transitions from the digital world into music.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to Behind the Influence, a production of I Heart
Radio and t DC Media. Hey what the fuck did

(00:21):
I just say that? Oh my god? I feel stupid.
Am Mostly I think I made to stop drinking. I
got people blaming me for ship they did to me,

(00:43):
lots of people shaming me for ship they didn't see.
So want the thing and pull the drink and throw
them off. Your chick, you'll get your season. I've been sinking,
coping at my heart broken. I don't know why. I've
been thinking, get hoping. Can we leave it open? I
just need time, I just need time. But why even try,

(01:10):
I'm saying. I think with entertainers, though, it's interesting because
a lot of entertainers I talked to are actually introverts,
and I think that you are actually like you are
this ball of energy. Yeah, you know, I don't think
it's a show, right, No, for sure. I've always been
the class clown, like I was always getting in trouble
with my teachers, always drawing attention to myself, and I've

(01:30):
always just been that person. To me, it's like fun
and I like to create that energy because I think
life's fucking boring. I think life's so boring. Like if
you think about it, like the only thing that matters
is a conversation and human interaction when you boil it
down at the end of the day, and like how
other people make you feel. And to me, it's like
I was like sitting in class, or I would be

(01:50):
like sitting in like an assembly or at football practice,
and everyone's just going through the motions of life, just
like we're here, We're sitting here, this is what we
have to do. And I was or is the person like, no,
let's make this fun. Let's make jokes, let's talk about ship,
let's like prank people, let's spice this up a little bit.
You have six point five a million subscribers if not more,
on YouTube, and then you have almost four million followers.

(02:13):
I did have four million at one point, and then
Instagram did their sweep and then I was a meme
and then I lost the bunch, and then we're basically
bribing Brian here to play Macy's single that she just
played for me, cry for Help. It is so good.
Such a departure, not in it. I'm not saying that
other stuff wasn't good, but such a departure from your

(02:35):
other music. Yeah, it's so different, and like I want
people to recognize that I think too. I mean, opening line,
it's different than anything I've ever heard. And if you
don't know what I'm talking about, go check out it's right,
it's it's already been released. Go check out the song.
You will not regret it, you guys. It's Yeah, it's
definitely a shocker. It's a shocking opening line. I mean,

(02:57):
like I thought of it as like I would want
to listen to the rest of the song. You move
out to l A, everybody's eyes are on you, but
then sometimes you're getting in trouble, right, But it's because
you're creating your own I guess, non boring life, right, Yeah, exactly.
It's kind of like just doing what you want because
you don't care what other people think. And yeah, like

(03:18):
I've kind of always been like the problem child. Why
do you think I think for that reason, Like because
I literally get bored, Like we were in the we
we were I just an interview and like we're in
the green room and we're just in this room. There's
like a TV. I was like started to like I'm
just like yo, like what's going on here? Like like
we need to do something like I get bored super easily.
I think that's where it stems from. And I have

(03:39):
a lot of energy and a d h D like
we were talking about for and and I like adrenaline
and stuff, so I think, like a lot of the
ship I do like involved as adrenaline and like just
being outside of the box. And yeah, I always I
kind of start to find myself in trouble, but I'm
ex controversial now, no more trouble. Yes, You're branding is
a very clean as of now. Yes, great. So on

(04:02):
that point, you are one of the most talked about
people digitally and even mainstream media, one of the most
talked about people, and I think there's a lot of
power in that. But I also think that there's got
to be downsides to it too, because when something goes wrong,
then on top of everybody's celebrating you one minute, they're
celebrating you, the next minute, everyone's shooting on you. So
there's pros and cons, right, and You've had days when

(04:24):
you've woken up and there's news outlets reporting on you,
people who don't know anything about you assuming things. Yeah,
I think the biggest most annoying thing that I deal
with is misconception and people misunderstanding like who I am,
because at the end of the day, like I have
a reputation, and there's a reputation and there's like who
you actually are. And for the past to three years,

(04:46):
I've had like kind of a notorious reputation. Who I
am as a person is like very different from how
the world perceives me. Like partially a lot of it's
my own fault. I don't like some of the old
ship that I did. I don't like my old self.
I don't like some of the videos that I would do.
But there's a reason I did it, and in the moment,
it was what I was doing and it got me
to where I am today. But I definitely had to

(05:07):
grow and learn from that. But I think the biggest
thing is when your reputation doesn't match who you are
as a person, and that is really hard to deal
with and an annoying because you're just like yo, like
I'm not that, Like I'm not this person, I'm not
like I'm not an asshole. I'm not like doing all
these like dumb things like it may look like this,
but like what's my side of the story. And a

(05:29):
lot of the times because I am Jake Paul and
I have a target on my back. People don't want
to hear that side of the story, and people just
will like just add to like the Jake Paul like
oh he's doing that, Oh he's doing that, Like it's
so easy to just like it's too easy. Yeah, And
they put your name in their titles, and then they're
they're getting views off of talking about you. And that's
what I hate is like those haters will watch like
other people making up about my reputation, but they don't

(05:52):
ever care to like go in and figure out for themselves,
which I understand and I'm not like but her, but
it's like that is the most annoying thing to deal
with in the entertainment industry. But also if there's somebody
who cares enough about me to follow me because they
hate me and they want to see if I'm going
to say or do something dumb, then I mean there's
still a fan. Actually, you probably have way more than
a six point five million subscribers, because you know, people

(06:14):
watch the videos and just don't subscribe. Yeah. I actually
thought about that the other day because I was trying
to think about how many people in the world don't
know me yet, because obviously it's a massive number of
people who don't know me. But then I was like, well,
six point five, probably only about one percent of people
who have seen me subscribe. So that's scary too, to
think about how many people have seen you in passing.
And that's not even including like uploaded content that Facebook

(06:36):
pages have taken my compilations and put them, and those
have a hundred million views. And that's just people that
have no idea who I. It's crazy to think about, yeah,
and scary, weird and gross. So on the topic scary
of all these people with their eyeballs on you, Have
you ever had a situation that is actually been scary
with a fan? Yeah, I actually currently have a stalker,

(06:58):
which I guess I shouldn't say too much about because Ascerbaby,
I didn't mean to show up. I can't believe you
started this whole podcast. This is unreal. I've never been
in a situation. No, I actually had been in a
situation where I felt really actually scared and I had
to get um a security guard to follow me around
while I was in New York. It was the first

(07:19):
time I was in New York for MTV and there
was somebody, can we swear on here? What's the I
think we can. Let me get some clear because he
was saying some really vulgar stuff, saying like, next time
you're in New York, you better beef up your security
because you will be dead next time I see you,
and then talking about like burying up my dead grandma
and like fucking her skull, and like like killing and

(07:39):
raping my baby sister. Like it was dark. And this
was right after the Vegas shootings, and I was like,
oh my god, I'm gonna be in Times Square and
this guy is telling Manny to beef up my security
and he's gonna kill me, and he's clearly very angry.
So that was really scary. Like walking around in New
York that weekend, I had my eyes peeled. And then
my phone got hacked that same weekend, like drastically hacked,
Like they stole my phone number, put their SIM card

(08:01):
on their phone, so I lost my phone numbers, so
they were getting all my two step verifications and I
was like, is this the same guy? Is this the
attack the same guy? Know, it was just very harmless hacker.
So everyone always puts digital personalities in one box, and
then traditional celebrities like a Tom Cruise in a different box.
You guys probably have I mean, you definitely do. Their statistics,

(08:22):
have more fans than a lot of these traditional celebrities.
And also there's this other layer of people. They have
more access to you guys because a lot of you,
especially you, you're very real on there. You let people
into your real lives. So now all of a sudden,
if you do have a sick grandma, or you have
like a little brother, whatever it is, they know their names,
they know Yeah, they're very invested. Yeah, and they know

(08:42):
details that maybe you wouldn't know about. You know, a
Naomi Watts or something like that, who chooses to put
nothing out there. You have to guard and shield certain
elements of your life just to protect your family. Absolutely.
A lot of people ask me because I kind of
allude a lot to some of the stuff that I
write about with my childhood and my parents and my
relationship with my family, and people really want details, like

(09:04):
what happened to you. I'm open about my mental illness
and see PTSD and anxiety and stuff like that, so
people want to know, like what is your PTSD from?
And it's like I can't share that much. I would,
but it's not just my story. So people need to
realize that people in my life aren't just an extension
of me. They are their own person, and other people
share that story with me. So I can't tell my
story without also exposing the personal lives of my siblings

(09:26):
and my family and my aunts and my uncle's and
that's not fair to them. And then also, if I'm
dating somebody, I'm very very careful to keep it under
wraps because if something goes wrong, I don't want them
to get hate. I don't want to have to deal
with a breakup publicly, so very personal things I keep
to myself. But if it has to do with me
and me only, I'm pretty open about it. Yes. So
Layla is my best friend from college. We've been best

(09:46):
friends forever, and her daughter is my god daughter, Isabelle
obsessed with Macy. Macy had this bob out. It was
like a s it was vibe right or is it?
It was fine? It's because I always want to say
kill my vibe, but it's just vibe. And my goddaughter
would dance this forever, and I'm like, oh, Macy's coming
out with a new song. I'm going to play it
for her, and then I hear the first line of

(10:07):
this song, I'm like, yeah, Isabel will not be dancing
to this song. Not yet. There actually is a clean version. Okay,
so what is it? Hey want to play chess? It's
I mean, it's it's just it's like bleeped out, like
it's just what everyone knows, right right, But yeah, there's
actually whenever I do it live, I have to like

(10:30):
do a clean version for you know, all of the
general public. Yes, so what is the do you just
not say I say, hey, want to love or like,
you know that's cute. Yeah, yeah, the difference she's like
a love let's I tried to figure out like replacement
words like want to hug or like want to hook

(10:52):
up or something. I think love is fine. Yeah, it works,
is natural. Yeah. So, for those of you who are
not familiar, Macy is a very very talented female artist
who actually caught her start on YouTube and when it
makes perfect sense for this show behind the influence of
millions of subscribers on your YouTube channel. When I first

(11:13):
discovered Macy, she was doing covers. But before that you
did have a legit music career. You just kind of
like went solo, decided to do your own thing and
start your YouTube channel. And that's when I saw all
of her amazing covers, which if you guys haven't seen those,
go check out her YouTube channel because your voice is insane.

(11:33):
And then the reason we thought this would be a
great tie in for the show is you actually were
able to leverage your fan base on YouTube and digital
on through Instagram, Twitter, to them launch a really successful
which is still up and common. It's still happening, it's
growing and still absolutely growing, and so let's talk about

(11:54):
that a little bit. When you first started the channel,
was your motivation or was the game plan to always
do what ended up happening. When I started it, no,
I was like twelve, and I was like just wanting
to do covers. I just found out I could sing.
I wasn't I wasn't seasoned in writing or producing yet

(12:15):
at all. So starting the channel, it was more for
fun doing covers, and then once it started taking off,
I started going into original stuff and writing. But even
before I started the channel, I was already touring and
doing stuff, you know, live and everything. It's a little

(12:35):
backstory just for people who don't know the story. You
were into music prior to launting the music account. Yeah,
I actually moved to Atlanta when I was like twelve,
and I was in a girl group in Atlanta, and
that was where we had full artist development, which now
is like really not a thing. I'm so glad I
went through it those especially at such a young age

(12:57):
where you could actually be like okay, because nobody knows
they aren't twelve like at all. So you go, You're
getting all the great training that you needed that could
probably help you. And honestly, like, I feel like I
have some sort of advantage because I had artist development
to handle things under pressure and you know, to be
juggling so much and and you know, like having interviews

(13:20):
and shows and stuff all while you know a bunch
of stuff behind the scenes are happening. So that was
a great way for me to really figure out the industry.
I think too. I was trained by like amazing people
in Atlanta, so it was great. After the girl group,
I kind of took those producers and writers that I
had worked with in the girl group and just made
connections through there. Then was managed by another uh female,

(13:44):
strong female her names Amber Grimes, and she helps me
throughout the industry in Atlanta and producers and writers who
now funny enough are all out here doing amazing things
and like writing hits first Beyoncation. I'm just going to
continue to do me. Hopefully they'll see like, oh that
kid isn't as bad as we thought he was, or
all that kid was just young and he made stupid
mistakes like justin Bieber, like me jumping on a news van,

(14:06):
like you know, me lighting a pool on fire, Like
it's all that dumb ship. That's like lighting people on fire,
said people. I was like, damn interview over, Um, you
have to grow as a person. And I think the
world has seen even me and my brother do that
in front of their eyes. Hopefully. I think there's definitely
still a target on our back. But well that's never

(14:28):
going to change, right as long as you're relevant and
people are talking about you, you have to know that
that's what you signed up for, right, Yeah, And it's
like that sucks. Yeah, I honestly, I think that's really
evolved of you to think that way and to say that.
But putting myself in your shoes, I mean, somebody makes
fun of you, you you feel horrible, like one person you
have to have such thick skin and such a good

(14:48):
head on your shoulders to keep it moving, because I
remember when a lot of controversies were happening, you kept
it moving and you just kept doing your thing. That
has to be hard, and I feel like you probably
have a really strong community around you. Ever saying, I
think my support system is awesome. My parents, my brother,
even I was there for him when he needed me,
and he's been there for for me when I needed him.

(15:10):
And the way we look at it is just different.
And we almost joke about people hating on us because
we just know it's not fucking true and we know
who we are. It's like we deal with things with
comedy a lot of the times, and I'm not going anywhere,
so it's like these people can hate on me all
they want, but like, I'm smarter than that to like
let that drag me down. I know what I'm doing

(15:32):
in this industry, and this industry is literally a game,
and when you figure out like how to play it
and be smart about it, you pretty much secure a
spot in the industry. And me and my brother have
already done that. And it's like we've gone through the
most amount of hate already that we possibly can. Like,
I don't see how it could go any worse or
be any stronger than what it's already been. Like we

(15:55):
were at one point in January early January two, that
was eighteen, my brother and I were the most hated
people probably on the internet, and we rose about that.
Here we are. I feel better than ever. I feel
more knowledgeable than ever, same with my brother, and we
are making bigger moves than we've ever done before. And
it doesn't necessarily just involve like making vlogs or like

(16:16):
YouTube stuff. It's just like business. So I actually have
a lot of really close friends in the YouTube world
because we understand each other in a way that nobody
else can. I'm just not posting about it, so people
think that I'm not hanging out these people, but I am.
It's crazy. And do you notice there's a clickiness in
the YouTube space? Yeah, because, as you know, I've worked
on YouTube platforms. I don't know if you've heard of

(16:37):
Clever TV, but like where I got my start, we're
working as a network, but we're not individuals trying to
get more followers and get more views. And you can
hear all these stories about you know, people that were
once friends and then this person got more followers, and
then there was jealousy, and there's like all this random
stuff that happens. It seems like clicks are always shifting,
and yeah, I mean, I'll be the first to say
that in the beginning, I definitely dealt with that too,

(16:58):
because it's so hard when say, like you're the person
who everyone's like, oh my god, I want to be
that person's friend, and then they start to get bigger
than you. Of course you're going to feel some type
of jealousy until you learn how to check yourself and
balance that, and then of course you're happy for your friends,
but then there's like, oh, well they got the brand
deal over me, or YouTube is recommending them over me now.
And that's why I like to keep it separate, because

(17:18):
I found myself getting jealous of people and resenting helping
and just it's an ugly place to be. And I
was an ugly person at that time. It's like four
or five years ago. But I see a lot of
people now not being able to check themselves and recognize
themselves and then trying to bury each other because of
those things. It honestly is so scary and that's why

(17:38):
I'm so excited to get more into music and other projects,
because YouTube causes me so much anxiety. Me too, And
I'm not even a YouTube I go on YouTube and
it's like my response to so and so, and I'm
just oh god, yeah and so out. I think the
thing that is the worst about YouTube now and just
the culture in general, is I've never in my life

(18:00):
saying so many people celebrate the destruction and downfall of people,
whether you think somebody did something awful or not. When
I see people doing live streams of people losing subscribers
and making memes of everybody's celebrating that people are losing subscribers,
It's like, this is somebody's life. This is somebody's career.
Whether you're fifteen, thirty, fifty, I don't know how whatever
the rest of your life, this is going to follow them.

(18:22):
And I don't think anybody deserves the amount of hate
from millions and millions and millions of people. And no
matter what you call it, it is bullying. Whether you
think that person deserves what they're getting or not, then
sit back and say, you know what, this person deserves
to lose their subscribers. Fine, but to get online and
make videos putting their faces a thumbnail, putting memes next
to them, making full videos saying how they're a horrible

(18:42):
person and like laughing and showing their social blade. It's
disgusting and I just can't, like, I just can't get
behind it. And maybe that's just me, but I just
wish that the world was a little bit more compassionate
for people, even people that they believe deserve punishment. I
just felt like I was boxed in in Atlanta in
a way. So I was like, I feel like I
need to like figure out how to get to l A.

(19:06):
And I was like, I'll just start auditioning for reality shows.
So I auditioned for reality shows like what kind of
reality shows, American Idol, The Voice, all of that, and
also all while I was doing that, I also had
my YouTube channel happening, so I had reality shows contacting
me as well to audition because reality shows are not

(19:27):
always stand in line an audition. It's like you'll get
called in and be like, hey, can you come audition.
So I ended up planning this reality shows called Rising Star,
which brought me to l A. And I was out
here for three months, staying and they put us in
this amazing hotel is called the SLS and and it
was just like, that's pretty fancy for a show. We're
literally living there for like three months. That's insane. And yeah,

(19:51):
I was at the pool. How old are you? I
was like, I had to be, like fourteen fifteen. You're
living at the fucking s l S as a fifteen
year old. My mom was loving it too, she was
I mean, I was a minor, so I had to
have my parents' hilarious. Yeah, we were like, we're just valent.
So yeah, it gave us like a weekly allowance was great.

(20:14):
But anyways, yeah, that was an amazing experience as well.
I mean, I think when you're in when you get
into the reality show world and the TV side of things,
it's a lot different than like traditional music industry. It's
like very staged and all of that. I definitely found
myself through reality shows, I think too, a lot of

(20:36):
like experiences that I experienced at a really young age
to you know, be documented and comparing like where I
am where I was when filming those and then where
I am now is just like really dope to look at.
So yeah, once I went through the reality show it
kind of gave me like a another platform on top
of YouTube to like bounce off of. And then at

(20:58):
the same time, I was still just trying to like
figure out how to get in touch with the executives
and all that. So I was going I was going
to music conferences as well. So in Florida and Atlanta,
there are a lot of music conferences and a lot
of executives that are there, so I would pull up
I would like try and make relationships, and I ended
up making this really dope relationship with Reverb Nation and

(21:20):
the owner of Reverb Nation, and he was like, oh,
we had a band cancel on this opening night of
this conference was called Driven Music Conference, and he was like,
do you want to come perform for like all the
executives at the executive dinner? And I was like duh,
And I ended up performing there that night. Florida's A
and R was at the executive dinner. I ended up
leaving super fast because I had to show the next day.

(21:43):
So he apparently was trying to find me after the dinner.
Ended up not connecting at all, and he had sent
someone out to like go to my show the next day.
This girl came to my show and was like Florida's
A and R has been trying to like find you
for like, was that the craziest thing to Yeah, because
I'm like, when you're doing stuff, you feel like nobody's watching,

(22:05):
when really there are people in silence watching you at
all times. And that was like a crazy moment because
I'm like I was feeling like no one was like
getting what I was doing. At the time, I was like,
I feel like run down. I was like sixteen seventeen,
and I had been doing this for like not super long,
but like five years felt like a long time for me,

(22:27):
And especially when you're so young, it's like your whole
high school career basically, so you've given up normal high
school things to pursue this passion. So yeah, that does
seem like a really long time. Yeah, so that hindsight,
it's not that long of a career of somebody, but
for that age, yes, I was like getting impatient and

(22:50):
and then to hear that was like, Wow, this is
like it's really dope to have recognition. Finally, we feel
like we are just starting. We feel like we haven't
even scratched the service of like what we're able to accomplish,
and we learned a lot I think in the past
like four to five years since you we were talking
about like off camera, like since I first moved here

(23:12):
and when we met, like I'm so much a different
person from that person to who I am now, and
so I can only imagine where like the next four
years ago, we just I feel like we have so
much more to offer than like what we are coined as,
which is like YouTubers. Do you not like the term YouTubers?
I don't know how to say. I don't want to
say it's a bad thing to be called. But you
are an actor as well, you are getting into music,

(23:35):
you do a lot of stuff. We have pages and
pages on things I want to talk about with you,
and we will not have enough time because you have
so much going on. So yeah, I hate the term YouTuber.
And like I'm a professional boxer now, I'm literally a
licensed professional boxer. We need to talk about So okay,
I don't I can't categorize myself into one thing because
I was trying to figure out there's so many different

(23:56):
angles with you, right, and I was like, Okay, what
are we going to focus on his business angle? Because
he's made people millions of dollars. He's made people famous
from literally being nobody's. He has boxed real boxers. He
makes music videos and spends more on budget for production,
probably than Nicki Minaj. So let's discuss all these things.
I feel like you go hard, and not only do

(24:18):
you go hard in all these areas, but you dominate
all these areas. Why do you think you've been given
this superpower? You're not. Oh, I want to become a
boxer and then take a class at box Union. You
fucking train and like you get the best trainers and
you actually do televised events boxing, And when did you
decide to do this two years ago and now you're

(24:38):
an actual boxer. Yeah. I think it goes back to
a couple of things, one being the goal of becoming
the best at whatever I do, or at least giving
my one effort into becoming the best at that, which
goes back to like my roots being in Ohio, and
like my work ethic, which like my parents installed in me.

(25:00):
Like I had a landscaping company when I was like
fifteen sixty, and I wanted it to be like the
best landscaping company. I want to have the most clients,
and I just always like worked hard, and I think
hard work in this industry beats everything. And then beyond that,
it's like the team that I surround myself with. We
have an amazing team smart people above as smart advisors, UM,

(25:20):
great relationships. So if I'm new into something or UM
not as good at something like you know, boxing for example,
it's how do we put ourselves around the best people
to be able to make us the best in that
category and teach us the most amount of ship. Yeah,
the content that gets shared is the stuff that's making

(25:44):
fun of people, Like whenever the whole monster meme thing
happened where everybody was just making fun of me because
of a clip in one interview which was explained very like,
but there was a logical explanation for exactly everything that happened.
But regardless of whether or not I hit the no,
I didn't hit the note, I can sink, I can't
sing whatever. There were these channels who are making videos
who are like get a hundred thousand views of video maybe,

(26:07):
and they were making these hate videos about me where
they're saying I just can't sing and then making up
musical terms that don't exist and then those videos are
getting three million views on this channel that gets not
that many views, So then that gets shared over and
over and over and everybody's rallying in that. But then
the same people once I put out Medicaid, we're making
videos being like this song is amazing, like I think
she's an actual artist and she really found her voice,

(26:28):
and those have a hundred thousand views. Again, so nobody
cares if somebody's doing great. Nobody cares if somebody's succeeding
or creating something beautiful. They just want to join in
on hating. And I don't know where that came from.
It's a toxic mentality, but I think people like to
see people who have it all have a bad day.
And I think people thrive off of watching a train wreck. Yeah,

(26:49):
it's it's a weird thing. It's not even just watching
a train wreck at this point though, it's celebrating a
train wreck. That's what's so scary. It's really really scary.
And those people who are posting those videos are getting
celebrated for it. So what are they going to do?
They're going to continue to find things Exactly why do
you think that happened? Like it feels like a trend
that's very new. I think so too. And that's what

(27:09):
I've been trying to figure out because I don't know
if it's just like who I am as a person.
I don't want to see anybody upset, whether you fucked
up really bad or not. Like when James Charles, like
even when everything looked the worse for him, when I
was like watching him be destroyed, I was just like, Okay,
if all of these allegations are true, that's horrible and
he needs to be punished, and like you can remove
your support, But why do you have to make a
million videos about it? Why do you have to like

(27:31):
try to rally the troops to everybody attack this person.
To me, I just don't get it, Like where did
it come from? I think it's a lot of people
who have time on their hands. So happened? You know?
That's that's a definite thing. Nobody's ever really publicly aired
their grievances the way that people so freely air their
grievances now, because before that, it's like, oh, I'm not

(27:52):
friends with this person anymore. I'm just gonna stop filming
with them. People are going to ask questions, and that's
my business. I'm going to answer it. But now it's
people coming out being like, these are everything that I
don't like about this person, and then people have the
opportunity to take a side, and then it's a fun
game because that is kind of human nature, is just
to find your wolf pack and the strongest survive, and
we naturally gravitate into clicks on platforms of sixteen and

(28:14):
a half million people, James had. Now there's very public,
All right, what team are you on? It's so weird
the way that it went on, from Totti being like
I need to get this off my chest to him
responding to other YouTubers taking sides. I genuinely felt bad
for him. I feel bad for everybody involved, because the
thing is I loved Totti. I think she's an amazing person.

(28:35):
She's always been so kind to me. When I went
to her launch party for Halo Beauty, she was giving
her speech about her products, and she stopped her speech
to be like, and I just want to talk about
Gabby and her music, and I'm so proud of her, Like,
this is unreal. This is your moment, this is your event.
These people are here for you, and you're talking about
my music. So I love Totti and I don't really
have an opinion because I know there's so much information

(28:56):
that's not out, and I know there's so many feelings involved. Okay,
James Charles in one day lost a million subscribers, that
is one six of his audience. He lost in one day,
and then he put out a video and he gained
a million subscribers back. And to me, it's just like,
how can you guys flip flop your opinion so either
that you're literally just clicking. I support he's canceled, just kidding,
he's not, and I'm like, guys, come on, at least

(29:18):
have an opinion. Don't just follow what everybody's telling you
to do, because that's what it comes down to, is
just this herd mentality of I want to do what's
cool and right now. It's cool to hate James right now,
it's cool to hate Totti right now, it's cool to
hate Jeffrey, and it's just just support who you want
and then be quiet about it, in my opinion, So
I ended up meeting with the n R after the

(29:39):
conference and he brought me to the studio flow heard
me live on the piano as well. I didn't have
any original music at the time because I was doing
covers on YouTube and I think I had like five
six thousand followers at that point. He signed me on
the spot, and then two weeks later I was on
tour with him, which was crazy. Was on tour with
him for two years after that. It was the most

(30:02):
influential time of my career. I think even when as
I grow, I think that will still be the most
influential time was being on tour with him because I
literally learned I was his like guinea pig the entire tour,
like I was his shadow. I was watching his interviews,
his you know, performances, as rehearsals. I mean even in
the studio, like when we had time off, I would

(30:22):
be in l A with him as well, just in
the studio with the whole team and watching you know
him take meetings at Atlantic and like movie meetings, like
behind the scenes stuff. And I was like, this is
so crazy, Like it's literally preparing me for what It's
just kind of priceless, Like you can't pay for that
type of training, I feel like, and and he wasn't

(30:42):
even considering it training, but in my head, I was like,
this is like boot camp for me because he had
made it and he were basically able to see every
aspect of it, from media training and being able to
do a proper interview to the amount of hours he
probably put into rehearsal. What was a common misconception that
maybe you had at the time something you thought about

(31:02):
the music industry that after being with Flow change your
perspective on it. I think it was his ability to
always like be on. In my head, I didn't realize
like when you are that known. He had just released
My House and it went straight to number one, like
at the time that I was on tour with him,

(31:24):
So he always constantly had to be on like all
the time. So when we were walking out in l a,
like I would be in like sweats and like a
sweatshirt and he would like be like, you have to
go change because, like I'm going to tell you, like,
this is not how you have to always be dressed
looking ready like all the time. And it was true
because every time, even when we were just trying to

(31:45):
go for breakfast, like he was constantly being like stopped
or you know, like taking meetings like in the middle
of the day. It was just like stuff like that
where I had no idea. I was like, I really,
you know, you really need to be on at all times.
In a way though, I do think it's important to
be real with your audience as well though, But he

(32:06):
was definitely a really like nope person to be around
when you know, he was like constantly being pulled and
pushed in different directions, but he always was like dressed
ready to go all the time. The industry of like
YouTube has a ceiling, has a ceiling. For sure, you
can only get to a certain point. YouTube starts to

(32:27):
limit your views. YouTube starts to limit like how many
people your video is getting pushed out to. When you
get to a certain point after two years, like YouTube
wants to just like put on the next creator. They're
kind of in control of everything when and there's a ceiling.
My brother and I have reached that ceiling, and we're
at the ceiling, and it's like, come on, let us
up through. And you think you're at the ceiling right now.

(32:48):
You're still getting a lot of views, for sure, but
the most out of us possible. But as far as
like excelling, you're already at the top. You're saying, so
where where else could you go exact too. It's a
it's a dead end. What am I gonna do vlog
every single day and just keep on making videos and
keep on getting views, and like, yes, my fan base

(33:08):
will grow, but like when does that end? When does
it end for you? I think it already has. I
think like I've definitely like pulled myself away from YouTube
in the past six months, you know, And I still
I love making videos. I'll always make videos, but I
think there's a difference between being a YouTuber and like
I post on Tuesdays and Thursdays and Sundays and I

(33:28):
post every other day, Like that's being a YouTuber versus
you kind of just make videos when you want. The
videos I'm currently making there just a lot higher production
and I want them to be as best as they
possibly can be. I think a lot of YouTubers like
cut corners and their videos now and they just like
kind of post whenever. I'm just over that cycle and
that doesn't excite me anymore. I want to make like

(33:51):
really high quality content. YouTube is great, and I'll always
do it, but it's like, what is like, what are
the big YouTubers now? They're just they're just gonna keep
on making videos unless there's some smart ones, you know,
who branch out and are building businesses. But that's like
two people that I know of, and the rest of
it is just like they're just gonna die on YouTube.

(34:13):
They're just they're just gonna keep on going and going
and going and making videos until people just don't care anymore.
And to me, it's like I'm not only bored with
the platform and like making the videos, but I'm bored
with making videos like consistently, like when I like need
to upload at a certain time and a certain uncertain
days and push push push and forced content out on
board of that, I think it's like I don't want
to like be that person that dies on the platform,

(34:35):
and I think a lot of YouTubers do and they
don't even realize it, and then they try to like
come back and hate on the new people. I mean,
I've been through different situations like this, but that last
one was the first time I've ever seen subscriber loss
and people for people who don't know what we're talking about,
the monster me, yeah, But then it became more from that.
So it started with I did an interview with Genius
and then they did some weird cut with the audio,

(34:58):
and then people made it into a meme. You were singing,
I actually really like thank you. I still love that song.
I'll always love it very much. It just got memed
over and over and over and went insanely viral, which
was fine. I think there's funnier memes. Like there was
some that were like, so genuinely hilarious, and then some

(35:18):
were just like, I'm like, how does this have this
many views? I'm abused, but um yeah. It was fine
and it was just a joke. But then once my
face became clickable, then it became people starting rumors and
pulling things up where I'm bullying my fans. I'm scamming
my fans. I am capitalizing on mental illness for my
own profit, and I don't actually care about depression. I
just talked about it for money. It is scam my young,

(35:39):
vulnerable fans. I'm just like, come on, guys like you.
Guys loved me in August. In August, everybody who was
rallying behind me because I was the underdog who had
the number one song on iTunes and number two at
the same time. It was like massive, And then I
got a little bit too big, and then people wanted
to tear me down. So then your face is clickable,
and now it's just what story can I spend with her?
And I hear my name coming up in context that

(35:59):
I don't them belonging, but they know that if they
say my name, they can put it in a thumbnail.
You know, on one hand, I really am that bitch, huh,
But like, like, on the other hand, come on, like
I'm a human and let me live. My contract just ended.
It was a mutual thing. He was an artist and
you know, had to do his own thing. Was just
so busy, and I was like, I just really need
to focus on my stuff. I learned so much from

(36:21):
him and that experience. You know, a lot of things
in between as well. There were good times, bad times,
but at the end of the day, I feel like
I learned so much from that situation. I ended up
moving on. Was it independent for like a year and
a half after that, um, And that's when I met you, right, Yes,
So I finally got to release my own music. It

(36:41):
was crazy because that through that whole deal, I hadn't
released anything, which was really frustrating for me. I was
learning so much and I felt you know, like I
was on tour touring Wembley Stadium, like the biggest crowds
I've ever been in front of ever, and I just
hadn't released anything, and I was still feeling like I

(37:02):
hadn't shown or gotten to prove myself to anyone. Not
that that was the goal, but I just was feeling
like I needed to speak my mind. And that's frustrating.
I mean, especially you, it's your passion to be an artist,
and you're of course you're learning and it's invaluable, but
you're seeing someone else put content out and music out
and you're just like, I want to do that too, exactly. So.

(37:24):
And then even the artists we were doing shows with
it was like up and coming artists as well, and
you know he was also watching, you know, the way
that they were doing things as well for my career
as well. So so yeah, after that, was independent for
a while, released my own music, you know, through my
channel and stuff. I ended up petting like a million
subs during that point. That's that's crazy, by the way,

(37:47):
to have a million subscribers, It's really hard to get
to that point on YouTube. I feel like that's the
threshold once you hit a million, It's like, Okay, you're
legitimately you have a presence on YouTube. How was that
for you? Well, I mean it took all that time,
from like when I was in Atlanta all the way
until the beginning of this year. What do you think
helps your YouTube channel grow? What was there a spike

(38:10):
in growth? It wasn't a slow and steady climb. It
was a slow and steady climb. Like there was no
like of course there were like the viral cover videos
and like, because my main content was cover music. It
was always the main source of content was music, which
I'm really proud that I stuck with that, like my
entire YouTube career, because now I'm like, they're wanting original

(38:34):
stuff because of the renditions that I would make, they
were so different from the originals. They almost sounded like
they totally different. So they're like, we need the original stuff.
And sometimes it's hard for cover artists to stray away
from covers because the audience is so used to hearing
renditions of songs and stuff. But luckily my audience was like,

(38:55):
so for me, putting out original content music is like
huge for me. Love. I love music, I love making music,
I love the music industry just in general, and it
was kind of something like it was. It's kind of
weird for me because I grew up listening to like
rap all the time, and listening to the Little Wayne
and Drake and like watching the Little Wayne documentary without

(39:18):
my mom's permission because she didn't want me to see
it because like he was a bad influence and did
drugs and all this stuff. So I've always like loved music,
but for whatever reason, I never thought that I could
do it, and then got sucked in Divine and Disney
and YouTube and building businesses and so on and so forth,
and I did music like YouTube music like every day
bro and like comedy songs and just like joking around.

(39:41):
But then when I sat down one day and I
was like, I went in the studio and I was
like actually trying to make a good like song. It
turned out good, and I realized that, wait, I can
do this and like take it seriously and I'm good
at it and I'm good at writing. That was like
a huge eye opener for me, and I think I
had to grow as an individual and kind of grow
off of just being a YouTuber to fully believe in

(40:03):
myself to the point where like now I know I'm
a good musician and great artists, and I have a
dope team of people that I can work with in
the music space to be able to launch into the
music space and actually be taken seriously. You mean for
real launch into the music space. You know, the music
industry is like the hardest industry to break into, more

(40:26):
than anything I think. I actually think a lot of
YouTubers become introverts. Yeah, well a lot of them start
off that way because I've always been shy. But it's
when you start, first of all, exhausting so much energy
for the public in very short periods of time, Like
if you go on a tour and you meet, you know,
six people a day for a month straight, you stop

(40:49):
wanting to talk to people because that's what you do
for a living. But also you start getting a little paranoid,
Like if you're out in public and I'm at a
bar and I know that a lot of my audience
is over twenty one, so I know that there could
be people watching, right, and then just fearing judgment and
then just having been attacked so many times, you start
to feel more insecure and you start kind of hiding

(41:11):
within yourself. I've always been shy, but I definitely got
more shy and introverted after the Internet. That's the thing
about judging people online too, is you're just seeing these
snippets of essentially a character that you're putting on. Because
at the end of the day, if I sat and
did full length YouTube videos at my regular energy level, yeah,
a lot of a lot of people like it, I'm sure,
but not the amount of people who are like, oh,

(41:31):
this is an interesting charismatic person, because once you get
to know me, it's fun to sit and watch me
be chill like That's what my Patreon is is me
just talking very normally to them like this. If you're
trying to get people to remember you, you can't just
be a chill person. The biggest adjustment I think was
really being open to other people's opinions on things. When

(41:54):
I was independent, it was like me and my management
R and R, who have been with me forever, us discussing,
you know, what I wanted, and then now it's like, okay,
well I have to Now I have a team which
I value so much and love and respect. Now it's like, okay,
well we want to try this and do this and

(42:15):
do this, and then I'll oversee it and I'll make
a couple of comments and stuff, and that was that
was kind of the biggest adjustment I think was really
having so many people, you know, so many cooks in
the kitchen, but like I definitely they let me have
the final say of things. But I'm just I think
that was the biggest adjustment, was having a lot of

(42:35):
other people involved, which is an amazing thing. I'm still like,
I'm still figuring it out. Like that's what I'm saying,
I'm green in the music industry. I'm just sorry now
I'm still learning about it. I'm learning, like I'm figuring
out that strategy to come into it. And I'm being
patient as well, because I don't think it's something to rush.

(42:56):
And there's a lot of people I put music out,
put music out, Oh the song is this songs? Dope?
But I really want to have a button up strategy
and and the right like the perfect team in place
so that when it goes, it goes. And I think
I have the capability to do that. I know I
have the capable. You have the eyeballs, that's for sure,
and you definitely have the people that are going to

(43:17):
look at what you're doing. That's what it comes down
to at the end of the day. You asked earlier,
like what's the strategy or whatever. What it all boils
onto is like the music being good. They really have
to be like, wait, who is this? If they're just
listening for the first like, wait, who is this? I
think I'm sure you've heard some renditions of what you've
worked on. If somebody did not know that it was you,
would they know it's you? They wouldn't know based on
like the tone, the sound exactly. Yeah, I so my

(43:41):
what I have, like some of my friends do, because
they're almost some of the friends that like help me
with the music or the producers or whatever that Like,
after I make a song, they will go and play it.
They'll play it for their friends and just like have
it on in the studio and they're other like friends
or pop friends or whatever. They'll be like jamming to it,
and then they'll be like, Yo, that was Jake Paul
and everyone will be like what, like, no, that's not

(44:02):
that's not Like, no, it's not I don't believe you, bro,
I don't believe you. And they'll be like, yeah, that
is and they'll play it again and the big wow,
that's good. Like whenever the whole monster thing happened, I
knew that that was the universe giving me a sign
that I needed. I don't belong in YouTube anymore. This
isn't my platform, this isn't where I'm supposed to be.
And I was still doing really really well and growing
very quickly on YouTube. So the universe said, stop, why

(44:23):
aren't you writing music? And why aren't you writing the
music you're supposed to be writing. So there was this
big scandal where I can't sing and all this stuff,
and it forced me to write my best song yet
at the time, which was Medicaid, which was very like
respected and a lot of people in the community talked
about it as if like this, she's a real artist. Now.
That's when people said that, and that song would have
never happened if I wouldn't have been too hurt by

(44:47):
YouTube to even open the app. I couldn't even open
it because it was so painful. So I wrote and
then after I put that out, I said, why the
funk am I not writing music? And then I wrote
A Holy Pie And now here we are. So I've
been working with a lot of great producers, one of
which is boy Wanda. We're great friends and that's like
how the relationship started. And he's been kind of like

(45:08):
helping me out, giving me advice, sending me like beats
and stuff like that, which is which is really dope
because he's done countless amount of hits from Drake's God's
Plan to like started from the bottom. He's been with
Drake is a whole career. Drake is like my biggest
inspiration in the music space. So that's really awesome to
be able to work with him. And I'm so lucky
and fortunate to work with him and have a song

(45:30):
with a couple of different artists, one of which is
n Ellie Choppa. He's blowing up in the rap industry
right now. Again, same thing. We were friends, like everything
started friends. We made a song together, we shot the
music video. So I think that might be the song
that I dropped November eighth, but I might. Yeah, I
have a couple of songs. I'm just trying to figure
out like which one to drop in like which order.
And also, like the thing about it for me is

(45:51):
I'm very competitive and I'm very judgmental of myself and
so I'll make a song and I'm like, I love
that song. I love that song so much, and then
two weeks later, I'm like, I can do better. Is
that the constant problem with you? Though? You can always
do better? Right? So you probably have that issue in
every area of your life. So you just have to
drop the song right now right now. I am very

(46:16):
hands on with my visuals. I came from the video world.
I felt like I literally went through school just by
like being a YouTuber because you learned so much about
editing and and audio and visuals and like different like
hidden things and videos, and it's just it's it's a
really cool thing to go through as a YouTuber. So
when it comes to my original stuff, I am very

(46:38):
very hands on the creative process. So you already have
all these people ready for your EP, excited for your EP.
What can they expect from your music? Is it going
to be Is it going to be the same type
of music you've released in the past. Is there some evolution,
cultures evolution? I hope that there's always evolution in my work,

(46:58):
but I would say that this is more so in
the vein of Medicaid, where it's not as punk. The
first track is a little bit punk rocky. It's kind
of Marina and the Diamonds vibes, actually, I would say,
but it's kind of alternative pop. But it really tells
a full cohesive story. And I sent it to a
lot of my producer friends and writer friends and just
general friends, and they said, this is a body of work.

(47:20):
This tells a full story from beginning to end. And
then it's hard to do and I'm so proud of you,
and that is what I wanted to hear. Every song
is connected, Every single song tells the story. And then
I put interstitials of real voicemails of my X and
I crying to each other in between the tracks to
lead into so it's literally like, this is what happened.
This is what we were saying to each other, and
then I wrote this song. This is what happened, this

(47:42):
is what we said, and then I wrote this song.
It's hard to listen to a little bit. It's weird though,
because I'm like, I get numb to it a little
bit because I'm like listening to my ex say I'm
sorry and I love you, and then I'm listening to
myself crying saying I'm so fucking exhausted, and then to
me it's like, oh, I'm creating art. And then once

(48:03):
it's finished and you're done working on it, and then
you listen to it back as a full body of
work and the deadlines are over and everything, it punches
you in the mouth and you're just like, oh my God,
like that really happened. That really happened, and my heart
is broken. You go a spiral again. Oh wow, that
sounds like worth the weight. I want to use my
brand in that I grow through music to do other things.

(48:27):
So it's like, if if a deal makes sense, then
a deal makes sense. I don't even want to ask
you what your b all end all is because I
don't think that there is a be all end all
for you. I think from what I'm hearing, you've built
an empire and you're just going to continue to do that.
Is that kind of the game plan for you? Just
like anything that you can do to just continue to
build the Jake Paul Empire and whatever is happening in

(48:48):
the time in your life, and you're like, oh, I'm
passionate about this, I'm gonna go do this. Would you
say that's true? Yeah, for sure, you don't have like
an endgame. Like four years ago, if you asked me
where I was going to be four years or not,
I wouldn't be like, yo, I've got tattoos all over
my body and I'm I'm a professional fighter. I would
have never said that, you know. So it's like, I
can't really predict where the future is. But why I

(49:11):
do this, Why I am on this planet, and why
I wake up every single day to do this entertainment industry,
and why I have such a thick skin, and why
I don't give a funk that Nikita Dragons talking shipped
to me on Instagram or whatever it is, like, is
because I'm doing this to die a legend. One piece
of advice that you would give Gabby ten years ago,

(49:35):
make your tragedy as a work of art. Baby, Just
keep embracing that pain because it's going to be really
helpful later. I think it's I think you're doing that
right now. It's working, But I just wish she knew
a little bit sooner. I think that's everybody though. But yeah,
that's that's a really good piece of advice. And I
guess I'll just ask one because I love advice. Piece
of advice for somebody who wants to follow in your footsteps. Oh,

(49:57):
just really just do you, you know, and be authentic,
which is such a corny thing to say, but it's
honestly so true. When you look at the people who
really make a mark on society or art or culture,
it's the people who are truly authentically themselves. And whether
you make it big or you don't, you can be
really proud of the stuff that you've created and you're
going to touch somebody and just worry about that. Don't

(50:19):
worry about the fame or the money. If if it's
meant to be, that will happen. But if that's your focus,
you'll never get there. Love it, love it. Write a
book next. I have one. Oh it's my coltry book
Adult Lessons, available now in Barnes and Noble Target. I
gotta go to Barnes. I would have brought you one. Okay, well,

(50:42):
but yeah, make sure you come back every time you,
you know, release a book, write a movie. Absolutely feel
like you're doing big things. I'm excited to know you're there.
They can find the EP. It's called two a Mirror
and it's everywhere. It's on every streaming platform and the
music videos will be on my YouTube channel and just
you'll find it. So if you could win a world
title or you could get a Grammy for music, I

(51:05):
want to dive deep into like which one you would
pick and why? I think a Grammy from music? I
think that's would you quit it all for music? Like?
Would you? Would you quit everything for music and not
do anything else? That's the goal? I think? Yeah, and
just be an artist. Yeah, that's the goal for sure.
I think there's like these are stepping stones to doing that.
I would never guess that about you. I wouldn't. I

(51:26):
wouldn't quit like business, no businesses in your blood. I
think you'll always be a mogul, right, And I think
I read somewhere that you wanted to be the first
YouTuber to make a billion dollars. How close are we
ten dollars ten dollars having tomorrow? No, not that close.
I mean I meet people who are like, I'm a millionaire.
Then you meet people who are like, I'm a multimillionaire,

(51:47):
and then you meet people who are like, I'm a billion.
Clubs totally different. I'm a billion it's completely different. You
meet a one hundred millionaire and it's like so different
from meeting a billionaire. Guys. I hope you enjoyed this interview.
I shared it well before we leave, I do want
to say I literally met you, like what was it
like two years ago or something like half ago, and

(52:07):
like your support by not even knowing me that well,
Like it's so real, and like I just appreciate you
so much, and like you're like one of the like
literally like the like one of my favorite radio hosts,
and like, to be honest, like not a lot of
people will like hop on the bandwagon and be like
I'm here to support you, and I feel, oh, I
not only hop on I bully people. I was bullying

(52:30):
a big ep at I heart radio to play your ship,
like straight up, like you are just so like supportive
of my career and you don't even know me that well.
It's just like this is so real, Like I just
love it, and you can I feel your vibe and like, well,
let me tell you something about your vibe, honey. The
reason I support you is because not only are you

(52:53):
talent is talented people are everywhere, but you have something
that I hope people can look up to and aspire
to you, like because you work hard. Is are we
going to like wear the tissues? You work hard. You're
really talented, and I think you have a really good
head on your shoulders and you're not above the work
like you put the work in. So I want you
to get the fifty Grammys that we talk about because

(53:15):
they're going to and anyway that I can support you,
whether it's you know, doing some kind of weird ship
with this computer that's in front of me and making
sure that every song he thinks he's playing is not
actually what it is, but it's your song. I will
figure it out. I'll make it happen. But you're gonna
have to come back. I love to what you know.
When you win the Grammy, don't forget us. I would

(53:35):
never I have your number. I always go to remember
you as the person you said I would win a Grammy.
You're going to literally mark my words. Somebody keep this
clip in the future, somebody. When I want a Grammy,
I'm gonna say thank you to my heart and Tatiana.
And when I'm in the front row with the Grammy,
I'll come up and I'm like, so thank you, guys,
it's really because of me. I'll take all the cred Jake.

(53:59):
It was so fun having you on today. I feel like,
literally we didn't even crack the surface. I just want
to say, when you dropped that music, please let us know.
We'll play it on my heart, right, Brian will play
it on my heart. Okay, he just said it. We're
gonna play it on all right, let's do it. Behind
the Influences a production of I Heart Radio and TDC

(54:20):
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