September 16, 2025 • 35 mins
In today's episode, Sarah and Laura open talking about the upcoming elementary school year, and then Laura interviews Alyssa Blask Campbell, head of Seed and Sew, an organization devoted to raising emotionally intelligent children.
Alyssa can be found at seedandsew.org and @tinyhumansbigemotions on IG.
In the Q&A, a listener writes in asking for advice as a beginning runner.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:09):
Hi.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
I'm Laura Vanderkamp. I'm a mother of five, an author, journalist,
and speaker.
Speaker 3 (00:15):
And I'm Sarah hart Hunger, a mother of three, practicing physician,
writer and course creator. We are two working parents who
love our careers and our families.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Welcome to best of both worlds. Here we talk about
how real women manage work, family, and time for fun.
From figuring out childcare to mapping out long.
Speaker 4 (00:33):
Term career goals.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
We want you to get the most out of life.
Welcome the best of both worlds. This is Laura. This
episode is airing in mid September of twenty twenty five.
I'm going to be interviewing Alyssa Black Campbell, who's the
author of Big Kids, Bigger Feelings about life with kids
in the elementary school years. She runs an organization called
(00:57):
Seed and Sow, which is devoted to raising emotionally intelligent children,
which is certainly something I think we are all interested
in doing. What it is fascinating Sarah and I were
talking about this. We are starting to age out of
the elementary school years as parents, although we do still
have two our two little people who were born in
(01:18):
the course of this podcast existing Henry is five, and
a half and is starting kindergarten this year.
Speaker 4 (01:23):
And Genevieve is seven, right.
Speaker 3 (01:25):
Sarah, Yes, she is seven and she's in second grade
this year.
Speaker 4 (01:30):
Yeah, I think about this.
Speaker 2 (01:31):
I will have had an elementary school aged child from
twenty twelve to twenty thirty.
Speaker 4 (01:39):
That is just quite the span.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
It is quite the span, but we are definitely on
the back half of it at this point.
Speaker 3 (01:44):
So that's sort of no bat, there's always been someone
in elementary school that's amazing.
Speaker 4 (01:50):
Yeah, it kind of is.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
But well, what are you excited about? Was second grade
this year? I mean, what's on the docket for second grade?
Speaker 3 (01:56):
Yeah, I feel like Genevieve's gonna maybe like find her
like thing. I mean, I'm very excited. She can read
well now, which is great. I think she's interested in
maybe doing some singing, and I've always been excited to
have somebody in my family sing since things to sing,
so that's.
Speaker 4 (02:12):
Kind of fun. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (02:13):
I just feel like she's coming into her own in
terms of like before when you're little, you're just sort
of doing things to try things, and now not that
she's like committing to some path for life, but maybe
finding things that she's more passionate about and maybe eliminating
some things that she's less passionate about.
Speaker 4 (02:28):
We'll see.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
Yeah, absolutely, no, I can't wait for Henry to learn
to read. I think it's highly likely it will happen
in the course of the year, just from my sort
of judgment of where he is currently on his letter
and word recognition and his interest in it.
Speaker 4 (02:46):
He really enjoys being read to.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
He and I have been working through the Magic Tree
House books, which is fun because we pretty much own
the whole set from Jasper was really into it back
in twenty twelve. So we are reading through those all again,
although some have mysteriously gone missing. That's slightly annoying that
I'll like, have eleven in a row and then number twelve.
Speaker 3 (03:08):
Is gone eBay Amazon, Yeah, you're got are hoping.
Speaker 4 (03:13):
Out with those?
Speaker 1 (03:14):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (03:14):
Yeah. And then we have a new series that we
are reading that I can highly recommend for people who
have either young readers or children who enjoy being read to,
which is called The Dragon Masters. So some people who
had kids this age had recommended those to me, and
I'll pass that along because I also think they're really
well done. I think, especially if you have somebody who's
(03:35):
like a kindergartner or first grader who is reading pretty
fluently but not quite at like Harry Potter level or whatever.
They're still exciting and they're magical and they're about eight
year old kids doing heroic things, and so we've really
enjoyed reading through those. I think we're a book like
sixteen in the series now. And then Michael's reading all
(03:57):
the Roald Dahl books.
Speaker 4 (04:00):
Oh those are fun.
Speaker 3 (04:01):
Yeah, Danevieve is just stuck in Diary of a Wimpy
Kid lamb.
Speaker 4 (04:04):
But later they really do absorb her.
Speaker 3 (04:06):
I mean she'll sit on the couch for like hours
and it's the cutest thing.
Speaker 2 (04:10):
Yeah, that one of my children was talking to me
about Ronald Dahl and I realized, yeah, rolled is.
Speaker 4 (04:16):
A funny name.
Speaker 2 (04:17):
And I'm sure that in their minds they just substituted
the end because it looked like a typo and that's
what they've been calling him.
Speaker 1 (04:23):
Right.
Speaker 3 (04:23):
I don't think that kid is the first one to
make that mistake, ye, exactly exactly.
Speaker 4 (04:28):
We're also starting music this fall.
Speaker 2 (04:29):
He's going to be doing the junior choristers at church
and I just signed him up for piano lessons, so
that's exciting. We actually have the person who's gonna be
teaching him is the same person who teaches sam alto
saxon both saxophone and piano.
Speaker 4 (04:45):
So that's exciting.
Speaker 1 (04:47):
That's great. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (04:48):
Well, anyway, we're gonna you have our episode here with
Alyssa Black Campbell talking about big kids and bigger feelings.
Speaker 4 (04:56):
Well, Sarah and I.
Speaker 2 (04:57):
Are delighted to welcome Alyssa Blast Campbell to the show. So, Melissa,
why don't you say hello to our listeners.
Speaker 1 (05:04):
Hello, I'm jazz to be here with you.
Speaker 4 (05:07):
Yeah, why don't you tell us a little bit about yourself?
Speaker 1 (05:10):
Sure? Yeah, I'm a mom of two humans. We live
in Burlington, Vermont. I have a little boy and a
little girl who could not be more different from each other.
It's fine. In addition to the parenting journey in too,
have like two very different humans. And I grew up
in Western New York. I have a master's degree in
Early childhood ED and I did research in building emotional
(05:32):
intelligence and kids. And now I have the privilege of
sharing that information with the world.
Speaker 4 (05:38):
Yeah, how old are your kids now?
Speaker 1 (05:40):
My daughter's a year and a half and my son
is four and a half.
Speaker 4 (05:43):
Okay, so still a little guys, Yeah, a little one
at this point. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (05:46):
Well, so I guess that raises the obvious question. In
your new book, you've been tackling the elementary years.
Speaker 4 (05:51):
What led you to that topic.
Speaker 1 (05:54):
Yeah, we do the bulk of our work at Seed
and so I founded Seed and So to share this
work of raising mostly intelligent humans. The bulk of our
work is in elementary schools. So we're doing this with
teachers and families in the day to day at work.
And after I published Tiny Humans, Big Emotions, which is
my first book, we got so many comments from folks
(06:17):
who were like, this is so helpful. Also, why is
my nine year old a teenager? Like what do I
do with them? And as we were doing all this
work in school systems and with families and then receiving
that information from folks after the first book published, we're like,
all right, it seems like there's a missing resource here
for middle childhood, and so we dove in and wrote it.
Speaker 2 (06:37):
Yeah, well, what are the most common challenges with kids
this age?
Speaker 1 (06:41):
Sure, we we start to really see in this age
is a real shift into identity of like who am
I outside of the home? Who am I? In my
peer group. What am I interested in? All of a sudden,
They're like, no, I want this pair of shoes, not
that one, I want to do this thing. I'm interested
in that I want to hang out with these people.
And there's this real shift away from the home where
(07:04):
they are coming into who they are, and with that
comes a lot of other shifts and changes. We're going
to see some hormonal shifts and changes that start in
this age range and that pull away from away from
home and into who they are and who they are
(07:24):
kind of trying on for size sometimes. And the thing
that we get the most questions about is the like
defiant disrespect, those eye rolls, the throwing the backpack on
the floor, the slamming the door. They're like, no, I'm
not going to do that, or I hate you, or
you're the worst mom, And really like, how do we
(07:45):
respond to that disrespect in defiance and continue to nurture
our relationship with this child? A lot of folks are like, wait,
where did my sweet little kid go?
Speaker 2 (07:55):
Yeah, well, what are some good ways to connect with
kids in the sage?
Speaker 1 (07:59):
Sure? Well, we talk a lot about in big kids,
bigger feelings. It's not a one size fits all. As
I said at the beginning, I have two very different
humans that I'm raising, and connection with both of them
looks very different. With one of them, connection looks like
focus time with me, and as kids get older, humans
like this might really love things like being able to
(08:22):
text you back and forth, or write a journal back
and forth, or leave notes back and forth, or have
time where you're driving in the car and it's just
the two of you kind of chatting where they don't
have to look at your face to process how you
feel about something, but they can share stuff and kind
of have that connection time. We have some kids like
(08:43):
my daughter who is a big connection seeker, and for
her she's fulfilled. She's also a sensory seeker, so she's like,
give me like a hang, I want to be in
a group. Hang, I want music going on, I want
to have a dance party. Like I don't need the
focused one to one time as much as I need
(09:04):
to be around other humans more consistently, really getting that
connection bucket filled. I think the most important thing we
can do, no matter who you're raising in this season
is to embrace curiosity that for so many of us
we have our own experience of childhood that's going to
(09:26):
lead us into what we think our kids should do,
shouldn't do, should be interested in, shouldn't be interested in?
Who they should hang out with? What should matter? And
when we can recognize what's coming up for us from
our childhood, really get curious about who is the kid
in front of me, what are they into, and move
(09:48):
out of a place of judgment and decision making on
our side and into a place of like, tell me
more about what is coming up for you, or why
you want to hang out with this person, or what's
really appealing about this thing for you? And moving into
curiosity is one of the greatest gifts we can give
ourselves and our kid in terms of relationship in the season.
Speaker 2 (10:10):
Absolutely, all right, Well, we're going to take a quick
ad break and then I'll be more back with more
from Alyssa Blast Campbell. Well, I am back talking with
Alyssa Blast Campbell, who is the author of the book
(10:31):
Big Kids, Bigger Feelings about the elementary years. And you
were just talking about trying to not grasp onto whatever
you had going on as a kid and what you
were as a kid, because obviously your kids are entirely
different people.
Speaker 4 (10:45):
Than you are.
Speaker 2 (10:47):
But with that, a lot of the in the book,
you often have sort of scripts of people talking or
things that they've been saying with their kids, and sometimes
people are telling stories from their childhood like oh yeah,
I used to think this and did this with Grandma,
or I did this or I felt this. I'm curious,
how does one gauge when it's right to bring in
something from your own life and when that risks coming
(11:10):
across as well?
Speaker 4 (11:11):
And I was your age, I did.
Speaker 1 (11:12):
You know this? Sure, sure, sure, I appreciate this question.
So when we're doing it from a place of this
is right or this is wrong because this is what
I experience, that's much different than sharing with our kids,
Ah yeah, I remember when I was a kid and
this came up for me too, and sharing a story
(11:33):
with them about your experience rather than I'm parenting from
a place of this is what is right or what
is wrong because it's what I've experienced. Sharing stories with
our kids about our experience can be so powerful for
them to know that they're not alone, They're not the
first person to ever experienced this. And if it's really
(11:54):
from a place of connection of like, oh yeah, I
know what that feels like or I remember going through
something like that too, And different kids receive this differently,
and you start to learn that real young before they
are five years old, you already know if you have
shared with your kid and to like, no, that's not
what it's like for me, or you don't understand at all,
then this is not an approach I would use with
(12:14):
this child. This is not a way that they feel connected.
We talk about the connection blueprint in this book, and
part of that is really observing when you are trying
to connect with your child. Is it something that they
receive as connection or do they pull away from you?
Speaker 2 (12:32):
All right, well, let's talk about One thing that makes
kids pull away from you is when they suspect that they.
Speaker 4 (12:39):
Are in trouble.
Speaker 2 (12:40):
Sure, and so one of the helpful phrases in Big Kids,
Bigger Feelings is you're not in trouble, So explain why
you're not in trouble is a bit of a magic
phrase for opening up.
Speaker 1 (12:52):
Yeah. Well, I mean, if you imagine if I come
into a room and you're doing something, maybe it's something
you know you're not supposed to do, and I came in,
I'm like, what are you doing in here? And I
come in with this like power over tone, body language.
What happens on a neurobiological level for you is that
your nervous system says, WHOA, I'm not safe with this person.
(13:13):
I'm gonna put my guard up right. Do not let
your guard down because you're not safe with this person.
Don't be vulnerable with them. Don't share your honesty, your
truth with them. You might get in trouble for it.
It is then worth it often to lie, because if
you tell the truth, you're going to get in trouble.
When we come in and I say, man, I just
(13:33):
got off the phone with your teacher and she called
to say that you haven't been turning in your homework,
I'm not mad at you. You're not in trouble. I
want to help you figure this out. That I know
that there are things that you want to do, and
that some of those things require you passing this class.
(13:55):
You wanted to play basketball, and in order to play basketball,
you have to and grades for it. So I want
to help you figure this out, not mad at you.
I know that you want to make a kind choice,
or the choice that's going to be right for you,
and it seems like that's hard, right now, let's figure
it out together. In that then kids are safe to
be honest with you, be vulnerable, say like yeah, when
(14:16):
I'm in class, I'm not understanding anything she's saying, I
can't do the homework, I'm not getting it, and be
able to open up and share with you, Versus if
they're going to be in trouble for something, it is
not worth it for them to share with you, to
be honest with you. It's more worth it for them
to lie.
Speaker 2 (14:33):
Yeah, and you said that lying is because lying is
another thing that happens frequently with kids in this stage,
but that's often a function more of a self regulation
than it is of being malicious, at least in this
sort of five to ten year old age group.
Speaker 1 (14:47):
Yeah, it can serve both purposes. It could serve the
purpose of like self protection, right in a few different
ways of like I don't want to feel embarrassed. Right
If somebody's like did you far and you're like in
a few pats and they're like, oh yeah, yeah exactly,
like they're like no, not me, then it's worth it
for them to lie even if they did. Right. So
there's times where it might be self preservation in that
(15:08):
terms of like am I going to feel embarrassed by this?
Is this something? Or is this something that's gonna get
me in trouble? And when we're looking at malicious lying,
I don't believe in it actually across the board, to
be honest, I think it always serves a purpose that
we lie for a reason. And it might be to
try and get something that they're hoping to have so
(15:29):
that they could feel included in a group. It might
be because they're exhausted and you're like, did you brush
your teeth? And they're like yes, and they didn't, And
they're really just saying I'm so exhausted and spent from
the day that I don't have the capacity to go
brush my teeth. But when we can get curious about
like why would they be lying here? What's driving that?
(15:52):
There's always a reason driving that life.
Speaker 4 (15:54):
Well, let's talk about that exhaustion thing.
Speaker 2 (15:56):
Because you have an acronym, I believe facts of the
thing that you could try going through. If a child
is having a self regulation issue, if they're having a meltdown,
what the things that might be to blame at the moment,
or what they might need.
Speaker 1 (16:10):
Yeah, we can dive into the facts, and it's both
reactive and proactive. So if you're like, Hi, I want
to make sure my kid is set up for success,
whether it's going to school or going to do homework
after school, or it's going into any sort of social situation,
you're like, I'm going to make sure they're set up
for success from a regulation standpoint, that they're basically as
resourced as possible. We're going to go through the facts
(16:32):
proactively and then reactively in the moment when they're having
that hard time, I'm going to start with the facts.
What we're looking at here is how's their nervous system doing?
What do they need? So we kickstart with food. When
it was the last time they had food that's going
to nurse their body? Are they angry right now? Are
they coming home from school and they like need a
snack and instead of being like I'm hungry, they are
(16:55):
doing things to their sibling that's annoying, or they're throwing
their backpack on the floor, they're rolling their eyes that
you really they just need a snack. So are they hungry?
When was the last time they had food that nourishes them?
A activity? When was the last time they moved their
body or had access to activity that's regulating for them.
We have a QR code in the book that you
(17:17):
can scan and it goes to seed quiz dot com.
It's a free questionnaire for any age human including adults,
can take it. You take as many times as you want,
and what it does is help you understand your unique
nervous system that what's regulating for one human is not
necessarily regulating for the other. For instance, I am regulated
by properceptive input. This is like big body play or
(17:39):
deep pressure. I love a workout class like kickboxing or
something where I can run or jump or kick or hit.
I love that pressure. I love a massage. I love
having like a kid on my back for like a
piggyback ride. Those are regulating things for me. My husband
is regulated by vestibular input. This he sits in like
(18:00):
a swivel chair for work, so he can move throughout
the day in a way that's regulating for him. I
get motion sickness or nauseous if I'm sitting in that
swivel chair for too long. So the activity piece is
really customized to that human. And you can go to
seed quiz dot com and learn more about your unique
nervous system or your kids to know when was the
last time they had activity that was regulating for them?
(18:22):
See is connection? Are we providing them connection in a
way that they receive it? So we talked a little
bit about that connection blueprint, really looking at how do
they feel connected. Are they a human who's like, yes,
sit and talk to me, or like, let's go to
this event together and We're hanging out with all these
people and I leave and I'm like, oh, my connection
(18:43):
cup is so full? Or are they a human who's
more of a like one to one kind of smaller,
quieter time connection person. And maybe you're like, yeah, we
just like hung out and went shopping for an hour
and a half and your child's like, yeah, don't. Then
we get home and they're like, mom, watch this, Mom,
can you come see this? I just spent an hour
and a half with you and they don't feel filled
(19:06):
by that. So really helping you understand like how does
your unique child receive connection? And then we have twoe out.
Tune out is where we are taking a break from stimuli.
It's giving our nervous system. Even one minute is so
powerful it would mean all screens away and in a
space where we don't have like background noise happening, just
(19:28):
giving your brain and body a break from processing all
the stimuli around you. Imagine like I definitely have felt
this is a mom so many times where I'm like,
I just want to lay in a dark room where
noone's talking to me or touching me, or needing anything
for me, say in my name, and just to be
for a minute. Even one minute of this is powerful.
(19:48):
And then we look at sleep. Are they just tired?
Are we trying to have them do things and they're
like I can't, I'm spent and I just need to
go to sleep. And we're going to see this in
times of transition. This could be back to school, it
could be a new classroom. It could also be shifts
into a new activity or club or sport or new
(20:09):
friend group and they're working so hard all day long
that they don't have much left to give and they're
just exhausted.
Speaker 2 (20:17):
Yeah, well, sleep is something that makes a lot of
us krabby. If we are not getting enough. I wonder
we could talk and pivot to some scripts that we
can help children use if other people are doing things
to them, like peers are doing things that are mean
to them if they don't like a situation at school,
rather than just sort of lashing out to what are
(20:39):
some scripts we can teach them.
Speaker 1 (20:41):
Yeah, so we can teach them to be really direct.
We have kids like beating around the bush with things,
and what we have found so successful in our work
with kids is having them say things like I don't
like when you do that, or when you are all
together in this group chat and I'm not invited, I
feel left out. Often when kids are really direct about
(21:03):
their feelings, I feel this other kids are really receptive
to it, that they will say things like, oh, we
didn't mean to leave you out that. Of course, we
walk through the world, and especially in this middle childhood
time where we think everyone's looking at us and thinking
about us all the time. Right, we just were at
(21:24):
a like hang with some new folks recently we left
and I was like, oh my god, I said the
stupidest thing and like replaying it in my head, and
my husband was like, that person probably doesn't even know
you exist anymore, Like they're not thinking about you. And
same with our kids right that, like they are thinking
that everything is happening to them because everyone's thinking about
(21:45):
them and so when they can say things like I
feel left out. When this happens, often what we hear
is other kids saying things like, oh, I'm sorry, we
didn't mean to leave you out, or yeah, we'd love
for you to come join, or yeah, well when you
were saying X, Y and Z to this kid, they
didn't like that, so we didn't include you. They get
more to what's actually going on when we can give
(22:07):
them those direct scripts to say with I feel language.
Speaker 4 (22:11):
Yeah, well that's a good idea for an adult as well.
We'ren take one more quick.
Speaker 2 (22:15):
Ad break and I'll be back with more from Alyssa
Blast Campbell. Well, I am back talking with Alissa Blast Campbell,
who's the author of Big Kids, Bigger Feelings, which is
(22:35):
a book looking at the elementary year sort of roughly
ages five to ten, eleven, twelve. But before we get
to the whole teenagerdom and all that might involve, I
think a lot of parents, especially when you think about
what kind of kids they're trying to raise, what they say,
I would really like to raise a kind person. So
I wonder what are some practical strategies we can do
(22:59):
in our daily lives to teach kids about kindness, sympathy,
things like that.
Speaker 1 (23:03):
Yeah, the most powerful thing you can do is model
it that they are always listening all the time, whether
they are in conversation with us or not, they're hearing.
How do we talk about people who are not in
the room. What do we do in our everyday life?
He shared a story in this Book of Time where
I was leaving the grocery store with my child and
(23:26):
there's this mom who was just in it. She's got
three kids, everyone's melting about different things, and my son
and I just I said, come on, bud, let's go
help her. And we popped over and we helped her,
and we took some groceries, took kids, we tagged, teamed
basically this whole situation with her. And on the way home,
(23:48):
he asked why I did that? Why did we stop
and help them? And I got to tell him, because
nobody's doing this alone, that everybody helps each other and
it's one of the ways that we're kind in this world.
I could tell him to do things all day long
that are kind for other humans. The most powerful thing
I can do is to be kind to other humans,
(24:10):
to hold that door, to say thank you to somebody,
to be accountable for my own actions, to say like,
oh man, I was having a hard time earlier and
I lost my cool with you, and I'm really sorry
that wasn't okay for me to do. Having accountability for
our actions is one of the kindest things we can
do for the humans around us, And if we want
(24:32):
to teach that to kids, we've got to model it.
When we treat them and others around us with kindness,
they start to treat others with kindness. That a kid
is not going to be respectful and kind if they've
been disrespected and we're not kind to and around them.
So the greatest thing to do is to practice it.
Speaker 4 (24:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:52):
Absolutely, So this is an age where I mean, people
are starting to get sort of the executive functions to
start thinking a little bit more about the future versus
what is right exactly in front of them. I wonder
if there's ways you can think about, especially as kids
are in school and trying to think about longer term
things like a weekly assignment, for instance, or maybe a
(25:17):
quiz that the teacher has said is coming up in
a couple days. What are some ways to sort of
help support them as they begin to think about time
on a longer time horizon.
Speaker 1 (25:27):
Yeah. I mean time management is such a valuable skill
in life, and it's not something that necessarily just comes right.
It's not like, oh, you're old enough, now you have
time management skills. I know a lot of adults that
don't have time management skills. You don't just hit a
certain age and get it. So really being able to
what we call scaffold them through this where if you
(25:47):
think of a building where you're building it and they
put scaffolding up until that part of the building is done,
they keep that scaffolding up and then they pull it
back when the building can stand on its own. That's
what we're looking at here is how can we build
in scaffolding them. How can we give them tools? Like, Hey,
I noticed that you have this assignment due next week,
this paper you're working on. Let's sit down and look
(26:09):
at the calendar and we can together right in where
you're going to work on it? What times are you
going to work on it? Oh, it looks like we
have music class after school on Tuesdays, so that probably
isn't a great night for it. And then we were
going to that soccer game on Saturday morning. That's probably
not a great time for it. Let's look at the
(26:30):
calendar together and think about, hmmm, when are you going
to have time to work on this so that it's
not Monday night and you're like, oh shoot, I forgot
to do this, mom, like I need your help now,
and feeling overwhelmed. So really modeling this for them of
let's look ahead, let's look at our week ahead. We
can also again and model this in our everyday life
(26:51):
of okay, you know what, we're going to sit down
and meal plan or do our grocery order for the
week and figure out we have what happening on what nights,
what are we going to eat for the week. How
do we plan for that ahead of time? It's all
away to model time management and then giving them those
visual cues of are there post it note reminders, are
there visual schedules? Are there calendars that are being used?
(27:14):
We use those as adults all the time. We joke
could see that if it's not in my calendar, it's
not real, it does not exist. I will not just
remember it. And so to expect a kid to just
remember that they have this test coming up without a
visual support tool is kind of blockers that were like
you have to remember it. I won't ever remember these
things because there's so much floating in librad but you
(27:36):
should just remember without giving them visual tools is not
an appropriate expectation. So really looking at what can we
put into place for them structurally to help scaffold some
of those skills.
Speaker 2 (27:48):
Yeah, although with kids this sage, I find that they
remember the funniest things.
Speaker 4 (27:51):
That's why that show are you Smarter than a fifth grader?
Is even a thing?
Speaker 1 (27:54):
Right?
Speaker 2 (27:56):
Remember the order of like all forty presidents or something,
Because they don't have to remember that I have a deadline.
Speaker 1 (28:02):
Like the same. I can't remember that my child is
a dentist appointment next weekend unless it's in my or
next week. This is in my calendar. But I can
tell you some random facts of things that don't deserve
to have life in my brain.
Speaker 2 (28:14):
The lyrics from US from late nineteen ninety six.
Speaker 4 (28:17):
Yes exactly.
Speaker 2 (28:18):
All right, well listen, this has been great. We always
end our interviews with a love of the week, so
something that is just exciting or fun for you.
Speaker 4 (28:27):
Mine is so random.
Speaker 2 (28:28):
But you know, we play a lot of I have
a bunch of little boys, so there's a lot of
video games going on around here. But one of my
kids has been playing this game Grow a Garden that
happens to have the background nice. Is this like calm,
lovely classical music. I'm like, love, why don't you just
keep playing that one?
Speaker 1 (28:52):
That background music is superior to the others.
Speaker 4 (28:54):
Much superior to Oh he's playing that. It's like nice
in the car and so it's like dog dong dong.
It's like no, Yeah, I think like Vivaldi. So I'm
a big fan. How about you.
Speaker 1 (29:05):
I love the My love of the week right now
is Amy Polar's podcast Good Hang with Amy Polar. In fact,
I was just saying the other day there's like a
big push for like watching podcasts on YouTube whatever, Like
there's never a world in which I'm watching a podcast
except for Amy Polars, which I watch on Spotify, And
it's like my pleasure. I at the end of the night,
(29:26):
kids are in bed and I'm like doing the dishes,
like prop my phone up and just watch it while
I'm doing the dishes and loving it. She's so funny
and it's like the perfect light thing for the week.
Speaker 4 (29:36):
Yeah, well makes doing the dishes better, I guess not.
Speaker 2 (29:39):
Thanks Amy, Thanks Amy, So, Alyssa, where can people find you?
Speaker 1 (29:43):
Yeah, seedns sew dot org is our mothership. If anyone's
interested in bringing any of this work to their child's school,
there's tools and resources on our website for how to
do that and connect us to the school and we
can see if there's an interest there, and then you
can snag Big Kids, Bigger Feelings wherever books are sold.
And I read the audio book if that's of interest
(30:05):
to you too.
Speaker 2 (30:06):
All right, well, Lyssa, thank you so much for joining us.
Speaker 1 (30:09):
Thank you, Well, we are back.
Speaker 2 (30:11):
I was just interviewing Alyssa Black Campbell, author of Big Kids,
Bigger Feelings. So today's question was posted on our Patreon page.
One of our community members says she is a new
runner and is looking for advice on how to get started. So, Sarah,
I'm curious what your advice was for her.
Speaker 4 (30:31):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (30:31):
I mean, I think if you're a very brand new
beginning runner, checking out a training plan that's really simple
is a great idea like couch to five K is
an excellent place to start, or a similar other beginner plan,
because it's just nice to have some structure around, Like, Okay,
how am I even supposed to go about doing this.
There is a sort of social media of running called Strava,
which a lot of people enjoy. If you choose to
(30:52):
partake and you are a newer runner, just try not
to get caught in the comparison trap, because you're going
to see people who are fast and who've been doing
this for many, many years. And if you have a
positive attitude like oh, that's inspiring and cool, then it's great.
But I think some people also are like, oh that's
you know, I'm so much slower. No one cares, like
none of us are pros. I mean you can follow
some pros. That's actually really fun and it puts everyone
(31:14):
else in perspective because if you're if you're following like
Connor Mantz or something like that, and you see his
like four fifty whatever, four thirty splits on his long run,
then you're like, okay, like he you know, I'm just
with all the other normal people, because that's so far
of up social runs. Don't say no to social runs
because you're scared you can't keep up. Like most people
don't care what pace they run, and a social run
(31:36):
always is just so much fun, like you can make
some wonderful friendships through running, and I think some people
get intimidated to try it, especially when they're newer.
Speaker 4 (31:44):
If it makes you feel better.
Speaker 3 (31:45):
I used to run with someone that was so much
faster than me, Like literally, her half marathon race pace
was like two minutes per mile faster than mine. She
used to run collegiately. She didn't care because we had
great talks and we had a great time. So if
she could run with me, you can run with whoever,
and then be grateful that you can do it, because
not everyone can do it.
Speaker 4 (32:03):
It's not the end'll be all.
Speaker 3 (32:04):
You don't have to be able to do it, but
just getting out and being going for a run is
a gift, so try to appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (32:10):
Yeah, I was going to say I never used any
of the running apps, and I'm trying to think back,
like when I was starting, I had to start a
couple times, like it took a while before I really
started running regularly, And I think when I finally did
it was because I went slow and went for just
a little bit and then tried it again, and then
(32:31):
eventually you can do it a little bit longer. But
it's not any sort of thing where you need to
be aiming to do a lot right at the beginning,
and you don't have to do it structured either. I mean,
I know that now because there is stuff like couch
to five k A lot of people do follow that.
Speaker 4 (32:48):
But you can just put on shoes and.
Speaker 2 (32:52):
Run slowly for a little bit, see how it goes,
and then you're a runner. There's no barrier to entry
from that perspective. Walk brakes are allowed, by the way, yeah,
and walk breaks are allowed, and you can go very
very slow, like there's no reason to like paul out
and then not be able to keep going or anything
(33:14):
like that. So but we were having this discussion on
Patreon because people are like mapping out runs and things
like that, and I'm like, I don't think I've ever
mapped out of run.
Speaker 4 (33:23):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (33:24):
Even when I was training for races, I would sort
of have a time that I was intending to go,
but I wouldn't even always do that. I think a
lot of us, you know, it's always been a fly
by the seat of my pants sort of thing for me.
Speaker 3 (33:34):
If you're running somewhere unfamiliar and you just need like
a safe path, that's a great reason to like that's
when I've mapped out around I'm traveling, and I'm like,
where am I not going to like run into I
don't know, like a place where I feel unsafe. And
then yeah, looking at a path and mapping it out
can be super helpful. It's also fine to run loops,
like there's no rule against that.
Speaker 4 (33:54):
That's true. That's true. Loops are totally good. I like loops.
Speaker 2 (33:58):
I like the loops, although you should know that you
may not do a second loop like you may.
Speaker 4 (34:04):
Some people loop and be like, yeah, I have done.
Speaker 3 (34:06):
My husband has that issue, like he feels like he
has to map out a route that's not a loop
because all the rise will fill tup to the stop.
Speaker 4 (34:12):
I honestly never had that problem when I ran. But yeah,
you're mile loache Mayberry.
Speaker 2 (34:17):
Yeah, I once did a loop where I because I
was it was like a two and a half mile
track or a loop with like a set trail, like
this is just a nature chill that's two and a
half miles and I was trying to do ten miles,
so I was gonna have to do it four times.
So I would stop about one hundred yards before I
could get like see my car, and I would reverse
(34:39):
and then go the other way and then I stop
again before the edit would reverse.
Speaker 3 (34:43):
This is why I think you're like an upholder rebel
sometimes like that's fascinating.
Speaker 4 (34:47):
Well, you know it worked, it worked, I did it.
Speaker 1 (34:52):
All right.
Speaker 2 (34:52):
Well, this has been best of both worlds. I was
interviewing Alyssa Black Campbell. We will be back next week
with more on making work and life fit together.
Speaker 3 (35:01):
Thanks for listening. You can find me Sarah at the
shoebox dot com or at the Underscore Shoebox on Instagram,
and you.
Speaker 2 (35:09):
Can find me Laura at Laura vandercam dot com. This
has been the best of both worlds podcasts. Please join
us next time for more on making work and life
work together.
Hi.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
I'm Laura Vanderkamp. I'm a mother of five, an author, journalist,
and speaker.
Speaker 3 (00:15):
And I'm Sarah hart Hunger, a mother of three, practicing physician,
writer and course creator. We are two working parents who
love our careers and our families.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Welcome to best of both worlds. Here we talk about
how real women manage work, family, and time for fun.
From figuring out childcare to mapping out long.
Speaker 4 (00:33):
Term career goals.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
We want you to get the most out of life.
Welcome the best of both worlds. This is Laura. This
episode is airing in mid September of twenty twenty five.
I'm going to be interviewing Alyssa Black Campbell, who's the
author of Big Kids, Bigger Feelings about life with kids
in the elementary school years. She runs an organization called
(00:57):
Seed and Sow, which is devoted to raising emotionally intelligent children,
which is certainly something I think we are all interested
in doing. What it is fascinating Sarah and I were
talking about this. We are starting to age out of
the elementary school years as parents, although we do still
have two our two little people who were born in
(01:18):
the course of this podcast existing Henry is five, and
a half and is starting kindergarten this year.
Speaker 4 (01:23):
And Genevieve is seven, right.
Speaker 3 (01:25):
Sarah, Yes, she is seven and she's in second grade
this year.
Speaker 4 (01:30):
Yeah, I think about this.
Speaker 2 (01:31):
I will have had an elementary school aged child from
twenty twelve to twenty thirty.
Speaker 4 (01:39):
That is just quite the span.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
It is quite the span, but we are definitely on
the back half of it at this point.
Speaker 3 (01:44):
So that's sort of no bat, there's always been someone
in elementary school that's amazing.
Speaker 4 (01:50):
Yeah, it kind of is.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
But well, what are you excited about? Was second grade
this year? I mean, what's on the docket for second grade?
Speaker 3 (01:56):
Yeah, I feel like Genevieve's gonna maybe like find her
like thing. I mean, I'm very excited. She can read
well now, which is great. I think she's interested in
maybe doing some singing, and I've always been excited to
have somebody in my family sing since things to sing,
so that's.
Speaker 4 (02:12):
Kind of fun. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (02:13):
I just feel like she's coming into her own in
terms of like before when you're little, you're just sort
of doing things to try things, and now not that
she's like committing to some path for life, but maybe
finding things that she's more passionate about and maybe eliminating
some things that she's less passionate about.
Speaker 4 (02:28):
We'll see.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
Yeah, absolutely, no, I can't wait for Henry to learn
to read. I think it's highly likely it will happen
in the course of the year, just from my sort
of judgment of where he is currently on his letter
and word recognition and his interest in it.
Speaker 4 (02:46):
He really enjoys being read to.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
He and I have been working through the Magic Tree
House books, which is fun because we pretty much own
the whole set from Jasper was really into it back
in twenty twelve. So we are reading through those all again,
although some have mysteriously gone missing. That's slightly annoying that
I'll like, have eleven in a row and then number twelve.
Speaker 3 (03:08):
Is gone eBay Amazon, Yeah, you're got are hoping.
Speaker 4 (03:13):
Out with those?
Speaker 1 (03:14):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (03:14):
Yeah. And then we have a new series that we
are reading that I can highly recommend for people who
have either young readers or children who enjoy being read to,
which is called The Dragon Masters. So some people who
had kids this age had recommended those to me, and
I'll pass that along because I also think they're really
well done. I think, especially if you have somebody who's
(03:35):
like a kindergartner or first grader who is reading pretty
fluently but not quite at like Harry Potter level or whatever.
They're still exciting and they're magical and they're about eight
year old kids doing heroic things, and so we've really
enjoyed reading through those. I think we're a book like
sixteen in the series now. And then Michael's reading all
(03:57):
the Roald Dahl books.
Speaker 4 (04:00):
Oh those are fun.
Speaker 3 (04:01):
Yeah, Danevieve is just stuck in Diary of a Wimpy
Kid lamb.
Speaker 4 (04:04):
But later they really do absorb her.
Speaker 3 (04:06):
I mean she'll sit on the couch for like hours
and it's the cutest thing.
Speaker 2 (04:10):
Yeah, that one of my children was talking to me
about Ronald Dahl and I realized, yeah, rolled is.
Speaker 4 (04:16):
A funny name.
Speaker 2 (04:17):
And I'm sure that in their minds they just substituted
the end because it looked like a typo and that's
what they've been calling him.
Speaker 1 (04:23):
Right.
Speaker 3 (04:23):
I don't think that kid is the first one to
make that mistake, ye, exactly exactly.
Speaker 4 (04:28):
We're also starting music this fall.
Speaker 2 (04:29):
He's going to be doing the junior choristers at church
and I just signed him up for piano lessons, so
that's exciting. We actually have the person who's gonna be
teaching him is the same person who teaches sam alto
saxon both saxophone and piano.
Speaker 4 (04:45):
So that's exciting.
Speaker 1 (04:47):
That's great. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (04:48):
Well, anyway, we're gonna you have our episode here with
Alyssa Black Campbell talking about big kids and bigger feelings.
Speaker 4 (04:56):
Well, Sarah and I.
Speaker 2 (04:57):
Are delighted to welcome Alyssa Blast Campbell to the show. So, Melissa,
why don't you say hello to our listeners.
Speaker 1 (05:04):
Hello, I'm jazz to be here with you.
Speaker 4 (05:07):
Yeah, why don't you tell us a little bit about yourself?
Speaker 1 (05:10):
Sure? Yeah, I'm a mom of two humans. We live
in Burlington, Vermont. I have a little boy and a
little girl who could not be more different from each other.
It's fine. In addition to the parenting journey in too,
have like two very different humans. And I grew up
in Western New York. I have a master's degree in
Early childhood ED and I did research in building emotional
(05:32):
intelligence and kids. And now I have the privilege of
sharing that information with the world.
Speaker 4 (05:38):
Yeah, how old are your kids now?
Speaker 1 (05:40):
My daughter's a year and a half and my son
is four and a half.
Speaker 4 (05:43):
Okay, so still a little guys, Yeah, a little one
at this point. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (05:46):
Well, so I guess that raises the obvious question. In
your new book, you've been tackling the elementary years.
Speaker 4 (05:51):
What led you to that topic.
Speaker 1 (05:54):
Yeah, we do the bulk of our work at Seed
and so I founded Seed and So to share this
work of raising mostly intelligent humans. The bulk of our
work is in elementary schools. So we're doing this with
teachers and families in the day to day at work.
And after I published Tiny Humans, Big Emotions, which is
my first book, we got so many comments from folks
(06:17):
who were like, this is so helpful. Also, why is
my nine year old a teenager? Like what do I
do with them? And as we were doing all this
work in school systems and with families and then receiving
that information from folks after the first book published, we're like,
all right, it seems like there's a missing resource here
for middle childhood, and so we dove in and wrote it.
Speaker 2 (06:37):
Yeah, well, what are the most common challenges with kids
this age?
Speaker 1 (06:41):
Sure, we we start to really see in this age
is a real shift into identity of like who am
I outside of the home? Who am I? In my
peer group. What am I interested in? All of a sudden,
They're like, no, I want this pair of shoes, not
that one, I want to do this thing. I'm interested
in that I want to hang out with these people.
And there's this real shift away from the home where
(07:04):
they are coming into who they are, and with that
comes a lot of other shifts and changes. We're going
to see some hormonal shifts and changes that start in
this age range and that pull away from away from
home and into who they are and who they are
(07:24):
kind of trying on for size sometimes. And the thing
that we get the most questions about is the like
defiant disrespect, those eye rolls, the throwing the backpack on
the floor, the slamming the door. They're like, no, I'm
not going to do that, or I hate you, or
you're the worst mom, And really like, how do we
(07:45):
respond to that disrespect in defiance and continue to nurture
our relationship with this child? A lot of folks are like, wait,
where did my sweet little kid go?
Speaker 2 (07:55):
Yeah, well, what are some good ways to connect with
kids in the sage?
Speaker 1 (07:59):
Sure? Well, we talk a lot about in big kids,
bigger feelings. It's not a one size fits all. As
I said at the beginning, I have two very different
humans that I'm raising, and connection with both of them
looks very different. With one of them, connection looks like
focus time with me, and as kids get older, humans
like this might really love things like being able to
(08:22):
text you back and forth, or write a journal back
and forth, or leave notes back and forth, or have
time where you're driving in the car and it's just
the two of you kind of chatting where they don't
have to look at your face to process how you
feel about something, but they can share stuff and kind
of have that connection time. We have some kids like
(08:43):
my daughter who is a big connection seeker, and for
her she's fulfilled. She's also a sensory seeker, so she's like,
give me like a hang, I want to be in
a group. Hang, I want music going on, I want
to have a dance party. Like I don't need the
focused one to one time as much as I need
(09:04):
to be around other humans more consistently, really getting that
connection bucket filled. I think the most important thing we
can do, no matter who you're raising in this season
is to embrace curiosity that for so many of us
we have our own experience of childhood that's going to
(09:26):
lead us into what we think our kids should do,
shouldn't do, should be interested in, shouldn't be interested in?
Who they should hang out with? What should matter? And
when we can recognize what's coming up for us from
our childhood, really get curious about who is the kid
in front of me, what are they into, and move
(09:48):
out of a place of judgment and decision making on
our side and into a place of like, tell me
more about what is coming up for you, or why
you want to hang out with this person, or what's
really appealing about this thing for you? And moving into
curiosity is one of the greatest gifts we can give
ourselves and our kid in terms of relationship in the season.
Speaker 2 (10:10):
Absolutely, all right, Well, we're going to take a quick
ad break and then I'll be more back with more
from Alyssa Blast Campbell. Well, I am back talking with
Alyssa Blast Campbell, who is the author of the book
(10:31):
Big Kids, Bigger Feelings about the elementary years. And you
were just talking about trying to not grasp onto whatever
you had going on as a kid and what you
were as a kid, because obviously your kids are entirely
different people.
Speaker 4 (10:45):
Than you are.
Speaker 2 (10:47):
But with that, a lot of the in the book,
you often have sort of scripts of people talking or
things that they've been saying with their kids, and sometimes
people are telling stories from their childhood like oh yeah,
I used to think this and did this with Grandma,
or I did this or I felt this. I'm curious,
how does one gauge when it's right to bring in
something from your own life and when that risks coming
(11:10):
across as well?
Speaker 4 (11:11):
And I was your age, I did.
Speaker 1 (11:12):
You know this? Sure, sure, sure, I appreciate this question.
So when we're doing it from a place of this
is right or this is wrong because this is what
I experience, that's much different than sharing with our kids,
Ah yeah, I remember when I was a kid and
this came up for me too, and sharing a story
(11:33):
with them about your experience rather than I'm parenting from
a place of this is what is right or what
is wrong because it's what I've experienced. Sharing stories with
our kids about our experience can be so powerful for
them to know that they're not alone, They're not the
first person to ever experienced this. And if it's really
(11:54):
from a place of connection of like, oh yeah, I
know what that feels like or I remember going through
something like that too, And different kids receive this differently,
and you start to learn that real young before they
are five years old, you already know if you have
shared with your kid and to like, no, that's not
what it's like for me, or you don't understand at all,
then this is not an approach I would use with
(12:14):
this child. This is not a way that they feel connected.
We talk about the connection blueprint in this book, and
part of that is really observing when you are trying
to connect with your child. Is it something that they
receive as connection or do they pull away from you?
Speaker 2 (12:32):
All right, well, let's talk about One thing that makes
kids pull away from you is when they suspect that they.
Speaker 4 (12:39):
Are in trouble.
Speaker 2 (12:40):
Sure, and so one of the helpful phrases in Big Kids,
Bigger Feelings is you're not in trouble, So explain why
you're not in trouble is a bit of a magic
phrase for opening up.
Speaker 1 (12:52):
Yeah. Well, I mean, if you imagine if I come
into a room and you're doing something, maybe it's something
you know you're not supposed to do, and I came in,
I'm like, what are you doing in here? And I
come in with this like power over tone, body language.
What happens on a neurobiological level for you is that
your nervous system says, WHOA, I'm not safe with this person.
(13:13):
I'm gonna put my guard up right. Do not let
your guard down because you're not safe with this person.
Don't be vulnerable with them. Don't share your honesty, your
truth with them. You might get in trouble for it.
It is then worth it often to lie, because if
you tell the truth, you're going to get in trouble.
When we come in and I say, man, I just
(13:33):
got off the phone with your teacher and she called
to say that you haven't been turning in your homework,
I'm not mad at you. You're not in trouble. I
want to help you figure this out. That I know
that there are things that you want to do, and
that some of those things require you passing this class.
(13:55):
You wanted to play basketball, and in order to play basketball,
you have to and grades for it. So I want
to help you figure this out, not mad at you.
I know that you want to make a kind choice,
or the choice that's going to be right for you,
and it seems like that's hard, right now, let's figure
it out together. In that then kids are safe to
be honest with you, be vulnerable, say like yeah, when
(14:16):
I'm in class, I'm not understanding anything she's saying, I
can't do the homework, I'm not getting it, and be
able to open up and share with you, Versus if
they're going to be in trouble for something, it is
not worth it for them to share with you, to
be honest with you. It's more worth it for them
to lie.
Speaker 2 (14:33):
Yeah, and you said that lying is because lying is
another thing that happens frequently with kids in this stage,
but that's often a function more of a self regulation
than it is of being malicious, at least in this
sort of five to ten year old age group.
Speaker 1 (14:47):
Yeah, it can serve both purposes. It could serve the
purpose of like self protection, right in a few different
ways of like I don't want to feel embarrassed. Right
If somebody's like did you far and you're like in
a few pats and they're like, oh yeah, yeah exactly,
like they're like no, not me, then it's worth it
for them to lie even if they did. Right. So
there's times where it might be self preservation in that
(15:08):
terms of like am I going to feel embarrassed by this?
Is this something? Or is this something that's gonna get
me in trouble? And when we're looking at malicious lying,
I don't believe in it actually across the board, to
be honest, I think it always serves a purpose that
we lie for a reason. And it might be to
try and get something that they're hoping to have so
(15:29):
that they could feel included in a group. It might
be because they're exhausted and you're like, did you brush
your teeth? And they're like yes, and they didn't, And
they're really just saying I'm so exhausted and spent from
the day that I don't have the capacity to go
brush my teeth. But when we can get curious about
like why would they be lying here? What's driving that?
(15:52):
There's always a reason driving that life.
Speaker 4 (15:54):
Well, let's talk about that exhaustion thing.
Speaker 2 (15:56):
Because you have an acronym, I believe facts of the
thing that you could try going through. If a child
is having a self regulation issue, if they're having a meltdown,
what the things that might be to blame at the moment,
or what they might need.
Speaker 1 (16:10):
Yeah, we can dive into the facts, and it's both
reactive and proactive. So if you're like, Hi, I want
to make sure my kid is set up for success,
whether it's going to school or going to do homework
after school, or it's going into any sort of social situation,
you're like, I'm going to make sure they're set up
for success from a regulation standpoint, that they're basically as
resourced as possible. We're going to go through the facts
(16:32):
proactively and then reactively in the moment when they're having
that hard time, I'm going to start with the facts.
What we're looking at here is how's their nervous system doing?
What do they need? So we kickstart with food. When
it was the last time they had food that's going
to nurse their body? Are they angry right now? Are
they coming home from school and they like need a
snack and instead of being like I'm hungry, they are
(16:55):
doing things to their sibling that's annoying, or they're throwing
their backpack on the floor, they're rolling their eyes that
you really they just need a snack. So are they hungry?
When was the last time they had food that nourishes them?
A activity? When was the last time they moved their
body or had access to activity that's regulating for them.
We have a QR code in the book that you
(17:17):
can scan and it goes to seed quiz dot com.
It's a free questionnaire for any age human including adults,
can take it. You take as many times as you want,
and what it does is help you understand your unique
nervous system that what's regulating for one human is not
necessarily regulating for the other. For instance, I am regulated
by properceptive input. This is like big body play or
(17:39):
deep pressure. I love a workout class like kickboxing or
something where I can run or jump or kick or hit.
I love that pressure. I love a massage. I love
having like a kid on my back for like a
piggyback ride. Those are regulating things for me. My husband
is regulated by vestibular input. This he sits in like
(18:00):
a swivel chair for work, so he can move throughout
the day in a way that's regulating for him. I
get motion sickness or nauseous if I'm sitting in that
swivel chair for too long. So the activity piece is
really customized to that human. And you can go to
seed quiz dot com and learn more about your unique
nervous system or your kids to know when was the
last time they had activity that was regulating for them?
(18:22):
See is connection? Are we providing them connection in a
way that they receive it? So we talked a little
bit about that connection blueprint, really looking at how do
they feel connected. Are they a human who's like, yes,
sit and talk to me, or like, let's go to
this event together and We're hanging out with all these
people and I leave and I'm like, oh, my connection
(18:43):
cup is so full? Or are they a human who's
more of a like one to one kind of smaller,
quieter time connection person. And maybe you're like, yeah, we
just like hung out and went shopping for an hour
and a half and your child's like, yeah, don't. Then
we get home and they're like, mom, watch this, Mom,
can you come see this? I just spent an hour
and a half with you and they don't feel filled
(19:06):
by that. So really helping you understand like how does
your unique child receive connection? And then we have twoe out.
Tune out is where we are taking a break from stimuli.
It's giving our nervous system. Even one minute is so
powerful it would mean all screens away and in a
space where we don't have like background noise happening, just
(19:28):
giving your brain and body a break from processing all
the stimuli around you. Imagine like I definitely have felt
this is a mom so many times where I'm like,
I just want to lay in a dark room where
noone's talking to me or touching me, or needing anything
for me, say in my name, and just to be
for a minute. Even one minute of this is powerful.
(19:48):
And then we look at sleep. Are they just tired?
Are we trying to have them do things and they're
like I can't, I'm spent and I just need to
go to sleep. And we're going to see this in
times of transition. This could be back to school, it
could be a new classroom. It could also be shifts
into a new activity or club or sport or new
(20:09):
friend group and they're working so hard all day long
that they don't have much left to give and they're
just exhausted.
Speaker 2 (20:17):
Yeah, well, sleep is something that makes a lot of
us krabby. If we are not getting enough. I wonder
we could talk and pivot to some scripts that we
can help children use if other people are doing things
to them, like peers are doing things that are mean
to them if they don't like a situation at school,
rather than just sort of lashing out to what are
(20:39):
some scripts we can teach them.
Speaker 1 (20:41):
Yeah, so we can teach them to be really direct.
We have kids like beating around the bush with things,
and what we have found so successful in our work
with kids is having them say things like I don't
like when you do that, or when you are all
together in this group chat and I'm not invited, I
feel left out. Often when kids are really direct about
(21:03):
their feelings, I feel this other kids are really receptive
to it, that they will say things like, oh, we
didn't mean to leave you out that. Of course, we
walk through the world, and especially in this middle childhood
time where we think everyone's looking at us and thinking
about us all the time. Right, we just were at
(21:24):
a like hang with some new folks recently we left
and I was like, oh my god, I said the
stupidest thing and like replaying it in my head, and
my husband was like, that person probably doesn't even know
you exist anymore, Like they're not thinking about you. And
same with our kids right that, like they are thinking
that everything is happening to them because everyone's thinking about
(21:45):
them and so when they can say things like I
feel left out. When this happens, often what we hear
is other kids saying things like, oh, I'm sorry, we
didn't mean to leave you out, or yeah, we'd love
for you to come join, or yeah, well when you
were saying X, Y and Z to this kid, they
didn't like that, so we didn't include you. They get
more to what's actually going on when we can give
(22:07):
them those direct scripts to say with I feel language.
Speaker 4 (22:11):
Yeah, well that's a good idea for an adult as well.
We'ren take one more quick.
Speaker 2 (22:15):
Ad break and I'll be back with more from Alyssa
Blast Campbell. Well, I am back talking with Alissa Blast Campbell,
who's the author of Big Kids, Bigger Feelings, which is
(22:35):
a book looking at the elementary year sort of roughly
ages five to ten, eleven, twelve. But before we get
to the whole teenagerdom and all that might involve, I
think a lot of parents, especially when you think about
what kind of kids they're trying to raise, what they say,
I would really like to raise a kind person. So
I wonder what are some practical strategies we can do
(22:59):
in our daily lives to teach kids about kindness, sympathy,
things like that.
Speaker 1 (23:03):
Yeah, the most powerful thing you can do is model
it that they are always listening all the time, whether
they are in conversation with us or not, they're hearing.
How do we talk about people who are not in
the room. What do we do in our everyday life?
He shared a story in this Book of Time where
I was leaving the grocery store with my child and
(23:26):
there's this mom who was just in it. She's got
three kids, everyone's melting about different things, and my son
and I just I said, come on, bud, let's go
help her. And we popped over and we helped her,
and we took some groceries, took kids, we tagged, teamed
basically this whole situation with her. And on the way home,
(23:48):
he asked why I did that? Why did we stop
and help them? And I got to tell him, because
nobody's doing this alone, that everybody helps each other and
it's one of the ways that we're kind in this world.
I could tell him to do things all day long
that are kind for other humans. The most powerful thing
I can do is to be kind to other humans,
(24:10):
to hold that door, to say thank you to somebody,
to be accountable for my own actions, to say like,
oh man, I was having a hard time earlier and
I lost my cool with you, and I'm really sorry
that wasn't okay for me to do. Having accountability for
our actions is one of the kindest things we can
do for the humans around us, And if we want
(24:32):
to teach that to kids, we've got to model it.
When we treat them and others around us with kindness,
they start to treat others with kindness. That a kid
is not going to be respectful and kind if they've
been disrespected and we're not kind to and around them.
So the greatest thing to do is to practice it.
Speaker 4 (24:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:52):
Absolutely, So this is an age where I mean, people
are starting to get sort of the executive functions to
start thinking a little bit more about the future versus
what is right exactly in front of them. I wonder
if there's ways you can think about, especially as kids
are in school and trying to think about longer term
things like a weekly assignment, for instance, or maybe a
(25:17):
quiz that the teacher has said is coming up in
a couple days. What are some ways to sort of
help support them as they begin to think about time
on a longer time horizon.
Speaker 1 (25:27):
Yeah. I mean time management is such a valuable skill
in life, and it's not something that necessarily just comes right.
It's not like, oh, you're old enough, now you have
time management skills. I know a lot of adults that
don't have time management skills. You don't just hit a
certain age and get it. So really being able to
what we call scaffold them through this where if you
(25:47):
think of a building where you're building it and they
put scaffolding up until that part of the building is done,
they keep that scaffolding up and then they pull it
back when the building can stand on its own. That's
what we're looking at here is how can we build
in scaffolding them. How can we give them tools? Like, Hey,
I noticed that you have this assignment due next week,
this paper you're working on. Let's sit down and look
(26:09):
at the calendar and we can together right in where
you're going to work on it? What times are you
going to work on it? Oh, it looks like we
have music class after school on Tuesdays, so that probably
isn't a great night for it. And then we were
going to that soccer game on Saturday morning. That's probably
not a great time for it. Let's look at the
(26:30):
calendar together and think about, hmmm, when are you going
to have time to work on this so that it's
not Monday night and you're like, oh shoot, I forgot
to do this, mom, like I need your help now,
and feeling overwhelmed. So really modeling this for them of
let's look ahead, let's look at our week ahead. We
can also again and model this in our everyday life
(26:51):
of okay, you know what, we're going to sit down
and meal plan or do our grocery order for the
week and figure out we have what happening on what nights,
what are we going to eat for the week. How
do we plan for that ahead of time? It's all
away to model time management and then giving them those
visual cues of are there post it note reminders, are
there visual schedules? Are there calendars that are being used?
(27:14):
We use those as adults all the time. We joke
could see that if it's not in my calendar, it's
not real, it does not exist. I will not just
remember it. And so to expect a kid to just
remember that they have this test coming up without a
visual support tool is kind of blockers that were like
you have to remember it. I won't ever remember these
things because there's so much floating in librad but you
(27:36):
should just remember without giving them visual tools is not
an appropriate expectation. So really looking at what can we
put into place for them structurally to help scaffold some
of those skills.
Speaker 2 (27:48):
Yeah, although with kids this sage, I find that they
remember the funniest things.
Speaker 4 (27:51):
That's why that show are you Smarter than a fifth grader?
Is even a thing?
Speaker 1 (27:54):
Right?
Speaker 2 (27:56):
Remember the order of like all forty presidents or something,
Because they don't have to remember that I have a deadline.
Speaker 1 (28:02):
Like the same. I can't remember that my child is
a dentist appointment next weekend unless it's in my or
next week. This is in my calendar. But I can
tell you some random facts of things that don't deserve
to have life in my brain.
Speaker 2 (28:14):
The lyrics from US from late nineteen ninety six.
Speaker 4 (28:17):
Yes exactly.
Speaker 2 (28:18):
All right, well listen, this has been great. We always
end our interviews with a love of the week, so
something that is just exciting or fun for you.
Speaker 4 (28:27):
Mine is so random.
Speaker 2 (28:28):
But you know, we play a lot of I have
a bunch of little boys, so there's a lot of
video games going on around here. But one of my
kids has been playing this game Grow a Garden that
happens to have the background nice. Is this like calm,
lovely classical music. I'm like, love, why don't you just
keep playing that one?
Speaker 1 (28:52):
That background music is superior to the others.
Speaker 4 (28:54):
Much superior to Oh he's playing that. It's like nice
in the car and so it's like dog dong dong.
It's like no, Yeah, I think like Vivaldi. So I'm
a big fan. How about you.
Speaker 1 (29:05):
I love the My love of the week right now
is Amy Polar's podcast Good Hang with Amy Polar. In fact,
I was just saying the other day there's like a
big push for like watching podcasts on YouTube whatever, Like
there's never a world in which I'm watching a podcast
except for Amy Polars, which I watch on Spotify, And
it's like my pleasure. I at the end of the night,
(29:26):
kids are in bed and I'm like doing the dishes,
like prop my phone up and just watch it while
I'm doing the dishes and loving it. She's so funny
and it's like the perfect light thing for the week.
Speaker 4 (29:36):
Yeah, well makes doing the dishes better, I guess not.
Speaker 2 (29:39):
Thanks Amy, Thanks Amy, So, Alyssa, where can people find you?
Speaker 1 (29:43):
Yeah, seedns sew dot org is our mothership. If anyone's
interested in bringing any of this work to their child's school,
there's tools and resources on our website for how to
do that and connect us to the school and we
can see if there's an interest there, and then you
can snag Big Kids, Bigger Feelings wherever books are sold.
And I read the audio book if that's of interest
(30:05):
to you too.
Speaker 2 (30:06):
All right, well, Lyssa, thank you so much for joining us.
Speaker 1 (30:09):
Thank you, Well, we are back.
Speaker 2 (30:11):
I was just interviewing Alyssa Black Campbell, author of Big Kids,
Bigger Feelings. So today's question was posted on our Patreon page.
One of our community members says she is a new
runner and is looking for advice on how to get started. So, Sarah,
I'm curious what your advice was for her.
Speaker 4 (30:31):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (30:31):
I mean, I think if you're a very brand new
beginning runner, checking out a training plan that's really simple
is a great idea like couch to five K is
an excellent place to start, or a similar other beginner plan,
because it's just nice to have some structure around, Like, Okay,
how am I even supposed to go about doing this.
There is a sort of social media of running called Strava,
which a lot of people enjoy. If you choose to
(30:52):
partake and you are a newer runner, just try not
to get caught in the comparison trap, because you're going
to see people who are fast and who've been doing
this for many, many years. And if you have a
positive attitude like oh, that's inspiring and cool, then it's great.
But I think some people also are like, oh that's
you know, I'm so much slower. No one cares, like
none of us are pros. I mean you can follow
some pros. That's actually really fun and it puts everyone
(31:14):
else in perspective because if you're if you're following like
Connor Mantz or something like that, and you see his
like four fifty whatever, four thirty splits on his long run,
then you're like, okay, like he you know, I'm just
with all the other normal people, because that's so far
of up social runs. Don't say no to social runs
because you're scared you can't keep up. Like most people
don't care what pace they run, and a social run
(31:36):
always is just so much fun, like you can make
some wonderful friendships through running, and I think some people
get intimidated to try it, especially when they're newer.
Speaker 4 (31:44):
If it makes you feel better.
Speaker 3 (31:45):
I used to run with someone that was so much
faster than me, Like literally, her half marathon race pace
was like two minutes per mile faster than mine. She
used to run collegiately. She didn't care because we had
great talks and we had a great time. So if
she could run with me, you can run with whoever,
and then be grateful that you can do it, because
not everyone can do it.
Speaker 4 (32:03):
It's not the end'll be all.
Speaker 3 (32:04):
You don't have to be able to do it, but
just getting out and being going for a run is
a gift, so try to appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (32:10):
Yeah, I was going to say I never used any
of the running apps, and I'm trying to think back,
like when I was starting, I had to start a
couple times, like it took a while before I really
started running regularly, And I think when I finally did
it was because I went slow and went for just
a little bit and then tried it again, and then
(32:31):
eventually you can do it a little bit longer. But
it's not any sort of thing where you need to
be aiming to do a lot right at the beginning,
and you don't have to do it structured either. I mean,
I know that now because there is stuff like couch
to five k A lot of people do follow that.
Speaker 4 (32:48):
But you can just put on shoes and.
Speaker 2 (32:52):
Run slowly for a little bit, see how it goes,
and then you're a runner. There's no barrier to entry
from that perspective. Walk brakes are allowed, by the way, yeah,
and walk breaks are allowed, and you can go very
very slow, like there's no reason to like paul out
and then not be able to keep going or anything
(33:14):
like that. So but we were having this discussion on
Patreon because people are like mapping out runs and things
like that, and I'm like, I don't think I've ever
mapped out of run.
Speaker 4 (33:23):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (33:24):
Even when I was training for races, I would sort
of have a time that I was intending to go,
but I wouldn't even always do that. I think a
lot of us, you know, it's always been a fly
by the seat of my pants sort of thing for me.
Speaker 3 (33:34):
If you're running somewhere unfamiliar and you just need like
a safe path, that's a great reason to like that's
when I've mapped out around I'm traveling, and I'm like,
where am I not going to like run into I
don't know, like a place where I feel unsafe. And
then yeah, looking at a path and mapping it out
can be super helpful. It's also fine to run loops,
like there's no rule against that.
Speaker 4 (33:54):
That's true. That's true. Loops are totally good. I like loops.
Speaker 2 (33:58):
I like the loops, although you should know that you
may not do a second loop like you may.
Speaker 4 (34:04):
Some people loop and be like, yeah, I have done.
Speaker 3 (34:06):
My husband has that issue, like he feels like he
has to map out a route that's not a loop
because all the rise will fill tup to the stop.
Speaker 4 (34:12):
I honestly never had that problem when I ran. But yeah,
you're mile loache Mayberry.
Speaker 2 (34:17):
Yeah, I once did a loop where I because I
was it was like a two and a half mile
track or a loop with like a set trail, like
this is just a nature chill that's two and a
half miles and I was trying to do ten miles,
so I was gonna have to do it four times.
So I would stop about one hundred yards before I
could get like see my car, and I would reverse
(34:39):
and then go the other way and then I stop
again before the edit would reverse.
Speaker 3 (34:43):
This is why I think you're like an upholder rebel
sometimes like that's fascinating.
Speaker 4 (34:47):
Well, you know it worked, it worked, I did it.
Speaker 1 (34:52):
All right.
Speaker 2 (34:52):
Well, this has been best of both worlds. I was
interviewing Alyssa Black Campbell. We will be back next week
with more on making work and life fit together.
Speaker 3 (35:01):
Thanks for listening. You can find me Sarah at the
shoebox dot com or at the Underscore Shoebox on Instagram,
and you.
Speaker 2 (35:09):
Can find me Laura at Laura vandercam dot com. This
has been the best of both worlds podcasts. Please join
us next time for more on making work and life
work together.
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