August 27, 2024 • 40 mins
Happy birthday to the podcast! Laura and Sarah share their memories from the very beginnings of BOBW, and then reminisce and discuss favorite episodes from the past. They share their biggest surprises, favorite guest eps, favorite conversation eps, and then Laura ends with a piece on the "why" behind the podcast -- illustrating how women can love their jobs AND their families, and truly enjoy doing both.
In the Q&A, a listener writes in with job dilemma - choose the one with more flexibility or the one that sounds more enticing overall?
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
Hi.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
I'm Laura Vanderkamp. I'm a mother of five, an author, journalist,
and speaker.
Speaker 3 (00:15):
And I'm Sarah hart Hunger, a mother of three, practicing physician, writer,
and course creator. We are two working parents who love
our careers and our families.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Welcome to Best of Both Worlds. Here we talk about
how real women manage work, family, and time for fun.
From figuring out childcare to mapping out long term career goals.
We want you to get the most out of life.
Speaker 1 (00:41):
Welcome to Best of Both Worlds. This is Laura.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
This episode is airing in late August of twenty twenty four,
which is approximately seven years since our first episode of
Best of Both Worlds was launched. So happy seventh birthday, Sarah.
Happy seventh birthday. Now we're like in second grade. This
podcast has gone to elementary school. It's losing its teeth. Like,
this is all very exciting in terms of its development. Yeah,
(01:07):
we launched what was it you said? August twenty first,
twenty seventeen. Is that the official date?
Speaker 3 (01:12):
Well, now I'm calling all my statistics into questions. So
I used the podcast database listen notes to search for
best of Both Worlds and got some possibly inaccurate data
about numbers of episodes, so maybe the date is wrong
as well, but I know it was August of twenty seventeen, So.
Speaker 1 (01:29):
Yes, it was late August of twenty seventeen.
Speaker 2 (01:31):
And because I remember we were getting things going while
I was at the beach that year, same house, same thing,
We repeat the cycle of life over and over again.
But yeah, we were launching this, and so there have
been we were counting. We think there are three hundred
and sixty nine episodes.
Speaker 1 (01:49):
We could be.
Speaker 2 (01:50):
Slightly off on this, but that means that if you
are just joining us now and you are hoping to
get caught up on best of both worlds, you could
listen to an episode a day for a year and
then be joining us roughly at the present. I guess
you would have to keep listening to ones that got
released every Tuesday, but yeah, every Tuesday, seven years.
Speaker 3 (02:10):
I don't know whether I would recommend that.
Speaker 1 (02:15):
Come on, Sarah, I have a little faith in our content.
Speaker 3 (02:18):
I mean, you listen to Bach every day, and other
people could listen to an episode of this podcast every
single day. I mean, let us know if you try it.
But I'm also fine if you skip around and check
out maybe some of the old classics, but maybe not every
single one.
Speaker 2 (02:35):
Yeah, well, I'm sure it's interesting to hear how our
lives have changed, how we're talking about people.
Speaker 1 (02:39):
Of course, when we began this.
Speaker 2 (02:41):
Podcast, Genevieve was on her way but not yet with us,
and Henry was just a twinkle in my eye. So yeah,
we've grown our families at the same time this podcast
has grown and been able to watch them grow and
watch everything else change as well. So, Sarah, when we
launched this, we were told to launch with more than
(03:03):
one episode, if I remember.
Speaker 3 (03:04):
Correctly, yes, and if you are interested in starting a podcast.
Apparently this is really good practice because that way, when
you launch, I guess your initial download numbers are better
than they would be if you'd only had one episode.
I kind of wonder about that a little bit, because
when you're a very brand new podcast, how great are
the number is going to be anyway? Right, But Laura
(03:25):
was already super famous, I was slightly famous, so we
were very lucky to have some listeners that did begin
right at the start, and so we did.
Speaker 1 (03:36):
Do you want to hear the three topics? I would
love to hear the three topics? What did we decide
to launch with all.
Speaker 3 (03:40):
Right, we launched with number one, crafting the right work
life balance, not vigor all topic number two, why we
decided to have more than two kids? Also a favorite
number three, the second shift evenings with your kids. See,
we were obsessed with the Golden Hours even.
Speaker 2 (03:58):
Then, long before they branded as such. Yeah, now I
remember that we were also launching three episodes at the beginning,
shows that you're a little bit more committed to it.
I think a lot of people, if they're wondering should
I listen to this, if it looks like there's more
than one episode, then it looks like the person has
thought it through a little bit. It's not a fly
(04:19):
by night sort of thing. So certainly, if you are
thinking of starting a podcast, launching three on your launch
day and then having one a week later or whatever
your cycle is going to be, the rhythm that you
released them is.
Speaker 1 (04:30):
Probably a good idea.
Speaker 2 (04:33):
But yeah, so, I mean, we've told the origin story
of this podcast before. But Sarah and I were reading
each other's blogs. By the way, Sarah, congratulations on twenty
years of blogging.
Speaker 3 (04:45):
Twenty years of blogging. I definitely would not have expected
that when I set out to start my blog at
the age of twenty four.
Speaker 1 (04:54):
When you were medical lost and all alone. Could I
say that.
Speaker 3 (04:58):
Yeah, was lost and all alone dot blogspot dot com
of course, because who would have their own who was
their own urlis? And I thought it was just going
to be like a month long project.
Speaker 1 (05:11):
But apparently I started reading.
Speaker 2 (05:12):
So Sarah made the decision to start using capital letters
in twenty fourteen, so ten years after launching. But I
started reading before the capital letters era. I know I
was reading you twenty twelve, twenty thirteen, somewhere in there,
I think is when it happened.
Speaker 3 (05:30):
That's a new baby era. Is the new baby era
for sure as to my blog. And that's good. You
missed some really wild stuff, regretable eras.
Speaker 2 (05:41):
Not only were there no capital letters, there were regrettable
things posted on the blog.
Speaker 3 (05:47):
I don't know, it's been a fun adventure, but yeah,
it's through lots and lots of milestones recently. Okay, so
you've been reading for a very long time, and I
started reading yours and I think, I mean, I think
I left to comment on your blog maybe once, never
expecting to hear back. And then when you left one online,
I was like Oh, she's.
Speaker 1 (06:03):
A real person. How incredibly cool is that?
Speaker 3 (06:05):
And then we started commenting as one does on each
other's blogs, and then we decided to meet in person
and we had a really fun time. We didn't talk
about the podcast at that dinner, though, right.
Speaker 1 (06:17):
No, we met in person once before that.
Speaker 2 (06:19):
I don't know if you remember, because your family lives
here in Philadelphia, so I believe it was the summer
of twenty fourteen, so shortly after the Capitol letters began
that you came to visit your family and we went
for a run together.
Speaker 3 (06:34):
Yes, and you, I think had just gotten some news
of your own. I don't remember if you shared it
during that run or not.
Speaker 2 (06:41):
Did I I may have shared it because I was
pregnant with Alex. I was about three months pregnant with
Alex at the time, because I believe it was probably July.
That tends to be a time you come to visit here.
But yeah, we were running, and I guess maybe I
wanted to explain why I was so slow.
Speaker 1 (06:57):
Maybe that was why I felt I should spit the beans.
Speaker 3 (07:00):
You definitely hadn't announced it anywhere public, so it was
like a very exciting surprise. And yeah, it might have
been like, uh, go easy on me.
Speaker 2 (07:07):
Be careful, it's hot, she's going fast. Sarah's always been
faster than me, but has been willing to run with
me on occasion, which is nice.
Speaker 1 (07:16):
And then in the.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
Late spring, early summer, I want to say of twenty seventeen,
Sarah was also in town and we went out for
a fun dinner at Tallulah's Garden Secret supper Club, which
is a sort of side restaurant in their little I
don't know, it's hard to describe. So Tulua's Garland is
this nice restaurant downtown and they were running a set
(07:43):
menu called Secret Supper Club at a location right next door,
and we had dinner.
Speaker 1 (07:49):
It was good, We enjoyed it, we enjoyed chatting.
Speaker 2 (07:52):
And so then later in the summer, Sarah floated an idea.
Speaker 3 (07:59):
Sometimes I that sometimes I do that, wondering if maybe
the universe will like throw something back at me.
Speaker 1 (08:05):
And it did. It did, Laura wrote.
Speaker 3 (08:08):
Me an email, I'm not going to read the whole thing,
but I'm going to quote a little piece of it.
We said chat, I have been thinking of doing podcasts
or I suppose more Facebook alive too. There may be synergies,
and then she wrote, you're looking to start a new
project going into kid number three smiling face. So yes,
I was looking to start a new project going into
(08:29):
kid number three.
Speaker 1 (08:31):
I guess I figured, hey, i'd have maybe a little
extra time on maternity leave. Perhaps or I just felt
the pull.
Speaker 3 (08:37):
And I'm so glad I did, because I said, yes,
I actually had written you something like, oh, I have
a couple other inquiries, but you're the best.
Speaker 1 (08:44):
And we talked on the phone and made it happened. Yeah,
we did, We did.
Speaker 2 (08:49):
And I remember I was actually on an editing retreat
for Off the Clock. I had a manuscript of the
book that became Off the Clock, and I was needing
to as I often do toward the end of a manuscript,
I really want to sit down and edit it without
having to stop, without having to like go pick anyone up,
without having to make or even eat dinner, or put
(09:10):
anyone to bed. I want to just go through it.
And so I had gone off to Bear Creek Mountain,
which is a ski resort, but it was the summer, so.
Speaker 1 (09:20):
Stay there for a couple of days.
Speaker 2 (09:22):
And it was while I was there that I saw
this posted on Sarah's blog, and so yeah, a lot
of things came out of that few days away.
Speaker 1 (09:29):
It's good to be thinking a little bit more expansively.
Speaker 2 (09:32):
I actually don't think that is a coincidence, because I
don't know would I have reached out and suggested it
if I was like skimming through stuff because I was
back at life and not doing anything else.
Speaker 1 (09:44):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (09:45):
It's an interesting question. I'm happy we did well. The
stars aligned and it worked as stars aligned. All right, Well,
let's take a quick ad break and we will be
back talking a little bit more about our seven year journey.
Speaker 1 (10:08):
Well we are back talking all things, best of both worlds.
Speaker 2 (10:11):
I guess this is a little navel gazing of an episode,
but you know, forgive us, we've been around seven years,
which is very old and podcasting years. I don't know,
like dog years. I guess like forty nine or whatever
the equivalent is. I mean, initially this was just a
fun project really, I mean for both of us. But Sarah,
you'd notice that there was a bit of a hole
(10:33):
in the market in terms of podcasts that we're out there.
Speaker 3 (10:36):
Yeah, I've been a very long time podcast listener. I
think it has a lot to do with running, because
I discovered that music kind of got old. So like
I was listening to this American life on my like
iPod back in like I don't know, the mid Auts
and stuff like that, and people are like, what are
you doing?
Speaker 1 (10:52):
And I'm like, this is so cool.
Speaker 3 (10:54):
And podcasts started to get a little bit more popular,
and I started to notice that there were more sort
of aimed at women, but they were they all seem
to be stay at home moms, and they all kinda
I don't know. They talked about things that were interesting
to me. But at the same time, I was like, ah,
but my lifestyle just doesn't look like this. I'm like,
where are all the working moms And I'm like, oh, right,
they're working.
Speaker 1 (11:13):
They don't have time to do a podcast.
Speaker 3 (11:16):
Yes, And so I was like, you know, I think
I might have just enough time. I think I was
working point eight or point nine or something, I think
point eight at the time, and I was like, I
could probably in that little bit of time be that
working person and provide that needed perspective. And I think
when Laura reached out, I was like, well, this is
perfect because I have a much more structured job. She
(11:38):
has a much more like entrepreneurial, like flexible job, but
both of us have big jobs and so not only
will we cover work and parenthood, but like different kinds
of work.
Speaker 1 (11:49):
Yeah, no, it's true, there's definitely.
Speaker 2 (11:52):
I mean, it's obviously the issue with people only have
so much time, and I know I've been saddened over
the years many of the working mom blogs that I
have read have kind of disappeared because people get busy,
and if you have a couple of kids and a
big job, it's always the thing that can go.
Speaker 1 (12:09):
And so I mean, among the reasons, I'm.
Speaker 2 (12:10):
Impressed that Sarah has been able to do this for
twenty years, but as we all know, she's very good
at planning.
Speaker 3 (12:17):
No, and I also obviously really love it, like it's
it's something I'm drawn to do, rather than something I'm
like putting on my list to get to grind out
or something like that, or also wouldn't be doing it.
But yeah, I mean, I'm still drawn to podcasts like
with from this perspective, and I still don't feel like
there are definitely more than there were, but there still
aren't a ton because the truth is, like once a
(12:38):
podcast is getting big and elaborate. The hosts need to
have a lot of time.
Speaker 2 (12:44):
Yeah, yeah, but you know, Sarah's still seeing patients, so
we are legit here as she has a normal in
the office required to be their job. So we're always
trying to stay true to at least some of that perspective,
even as she has launched some more entrepreneurial unsures herself
as well. So another fun fact courtesy of my Yahoo inbox.
(13:06):
It told me the other day as I was hunting
for an email from Sarah that you and Sarah hart
Unger appeared to gather on four thousand, nine hundred and
sixty seven messages between February twenty twenty and July twenty
twenty fours. That's not even all of it by any
means whatsoever. There were fourteen messages from last week and
on average eleven point six messages per week for last
(13:27):
Year's a lot.
Speaker 1 (13:31):
I know.
Speaker 3 (13:31):
When people are like, how much time does a podcast take,
it's like, well, not that much, but also a lot like.
Speaker 2 (13:38):
Because well it's yeah, the focus time may not be
that much, but there's always the constant communication back and forth.
I mean, we text each other too, But again, it's
hard to separate out. What is that, like the split
between business related stuff and like you want to show
the new outfit we just got, so yeah, I.
Speaker 3 (13:57):
Mean it's a mix yep. The text there, oh to
redo that ad or like my kid gotta new whatever.
But no, a lot and a lot of communication, that's funny.
I actually, yeah, that sounds about right. Five thousand in
the last four years, I could.
Speaker 2 (14:10):
See sending fourteen messages away. That's like two emails a day.
That's not that out of line. Maybe are they all
for me? I don't know, no, if.
Speaker 1 (14:18):
They're not.
Speaker 2 (14:21):
So once you been your biggest surprise with doing this
for lo these many years, Sarah.
Speaker 1 (14:26):
Yeah, how many.
Speaker 3 (14:27):
Like I ERL people I have met and how many
like true real life connections have happened that feel like
a result of this podcast, And like I saw that
in person when we had Best Line Plans Live, which
was not officially a best of Both Worlds event, but many, many,
many of the participants came to know me through Best
of Both Worlds and many were listeners, and then like
(14:50):
they started branching off and making their own friendships to
the point where like now some of them traveled together
and I'm.
Speaker 1 (14:55):
Like oh my god.
Speaker 3 (14:56):
It all started with best of both worlds, Like how
amazing is that? I mean some of it started with
Laura's books and stuff like that, but still, I think
just the fact that like this online thing became a
physical reality and his like true friendships have come from
it has been super super fun and a surprise.
Speaker 2 (15:16):
Yeah. I mean it's been great just people we've met
through this, and we launched our Patreon community a few
years ago, which has been a lot of fun to have.
I mean it's not since it's a paid community. People
tend to be on their best, most helpful behavior, and
it's their real names and everything, and I think that's
something that's often missing in a lot of social media.
(15:39):
I know, people get at it through doing like closed
Facebook groups for instance, that you need to apply to join,
and that's an option as well for people to do
if they're looking to create something like this in their life.
But we've really had great discussions and a lot of
people sort of meeting up on their own or giving
each other advice or connections or anything like that. So
I've really appreciated seeing how that has happened, being able
(16:00):
to meet people in person when it's possible has also
been wonderful and Sarah has you know, I mean, you
listened to a ton of podcasts before doing this, but
you hadn't really done much interviewing people for producing content
before doing a podcast.
Speaker 1 (16:16):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (16:16):
I also put on my surprise list that I was
surprised how much I grew to enjoy interviewing other people,
like not just our conversational episodes, which felt pretty natural
from the beginning, but also interviewing people where I would
read the book and do a little bit of research
and then put together my questions and actually got like
a random not random, but like a compliment from someone
I just interviewed, where afterwards she was like, Wow, you
(16:38):
really know what you're doing. This felt so much more
like a conversation than a list of questions. And I
was like, well, I'm still feel like I'm pretending at
this because I don't have any like official She's like, no,
get over it, Like you're fine, and that's just super cool.
Like I didn't know that there'd be like growth personal
growth for me out of this venture, but I feel
like there has been.
Speaker 2 (16:57):
We all learn new skills, which is one I mean
speaking into a microphone. I mean you are speaking, but
it's like there's things associated with it too. I think
we also had a breakthrough when we started using recording
software where we can see each other. So there was
a point a few years in where we switched software
providers for that. We've always had stuff where we can
(17:19):
record a local track and then mix it together because
that tends to make the sound quality better. But now
we're using one where we can see each other, and
it just facilitates the conversation because I know I would
like start talking to you know, step On Sarah's trying
to say something, because we wouldn't be sure if the
other person was coming in. So I think that's been
really helpful too, given that we aren't in the same place.
Speaker 3 (17:39):
Definitely, I think it makes it more fun too, Like
there's something about stereot a blank screen that's a little weird.
And I had an interview a while back where they're like, no,
we don't do video, and it really did feel odd.
Speaker 2 (17:51):
So yeah, I'm really glad we can see each other. Yeah,
I mean even places that don't record the video. I mean,
because we're not recording the video, where's just that we
want to Yeah, I definitely prefer now when I can
see the person who is interviewing me or that I'm
interviewing them as well. All right, Sarah, so let's say
some favorite episodes. What have been some of your favorite
(18:11):
episodes over the past three hundred and sixty nine.
Speaker 3 (18:15):
Well, the fun Facts episode from March twenty twenty four
was definitely a highlight. I just had so much fun
doing it. And I'll say, any like Q and a
mail Bag where we're in the same room is just
extra fun, just I don't know, like there's something nice
to be recording together and actually being able to be
in the same room, read each other's body language, et cetera.
(18:36):
So I'll say, and I like Q and A's anyway,
it's fun to answer questions what about you?
Speaker 2 (18:40):
Yeah, No, The March twenty twenty four one was, I mean,
I tend to listen to most of these episodes afterwards,
sort of just general quality control. I want to make
sure that I'm listening to whatever our listeners are listening
to as well. But I listened to that one several
times because it was just so funny between the Cornflight
Girl theme. So we had come up with a list
(19:03):
of fun Fact getting to know You questions sitting at
the bar the night before and then went and recorded
in a hotel room in Naples, and yep, it was
a banner episode. So if you have not listened to
that one, please go back and do that.
Speaker 1 (19:21):
We'll have to try to link that one so they
can find it. Sarah. Of course, I was saying, you
also love our goals episodes.
Speaker 3 (19:28):
I do. I love doing them, I love having done them.
I love being able to go back and listen to
them after the fact and be like, what did I say?
Speaker 1 (19:34):
I do that? But yeah, those are so.
Speaker 3 (19:37):
Much fun to do, and I enjoy hearing them afterwards
as well.
Speaker 2 (19:42):
So some favorite guest episodes, Sarah had a particular request
early on for a guest that we were able to land.
Speaker 1 (19:50):
You want to talk about that one?
Speaker 3 (19:52):
Yes, I think I've never celebrated so much is when
you were like, we got Manouche Summarodi and I was like, yes,
because she it had like an NPR series that I
was obsessed with, and I just love her voice, and
I love the way she does journalism, and I just
think she's awesome. And I think she'd come up with
a book that I enjoyed around that time, and so
having her was thrilling. And then I'm gonna cheat and
(20:13):
say I loved having my relatives on the podcast. So
my sister in law was episode thirty one, Josh was
episode eighty five, and I couldn't find the number, but
my sister was on in September of twenty twenty.
Speaker 2 (20:25):
Yeah, that was awesome when she was talking about your
niece and her.
Speaker 1 (20:30):
Journey with that, which was so much fun to hear.
Speaker 2 (20:33):
And I mean I got to see though, like Sarah
and her sister next to each other, which is just
a hilarious They're obviously not exactly like each other, but
they are also somewhat there's a resemblance, so let's put
it that way.
Speaker 1 (20:48):
And there's a lot of mannerisms in common.
Speaker 2 (20:50):
So yeah, it was like and of course they've known
each other for forty years and so it's like they're
just immediately feeding off each other in a certain way,
which was just hilarious. Fun fact, my husband has refused
to be a guest.
Speaker 3 (21:03):
We might still win him over, but I'm not holding
my breath.
Speaker 2 (21:07):
Yeah, I don't know if we're still doing this when
he retires. Maybe it's possible, possible. Well, some of my
favorite guest episodes, I mean, are the ones that people
that we've had on more than once. I guess there's
an obvious relation between that of the people we've had
on more than once, So we ran through that. Some
of the people who we've had on more than once.
Emily Auster has been on multiple times. kJ del Antonia
(21:29):
she has been on multiple times. Jillian Goddard also been
on multiple times for those who read a Hot Flash,
which is also part of the Emily ost Parent Data Empire.
And Gretchen Rubin has also been on more than once.
So I was thinking about it. Those four people in us, Sarah,
that would be quite a fun dinner party. I mean,
(21:50):
can we do that?
Speaker 3 (21:51):
I feel like we're all busy, but I would people
are pretty busy, but to fly out to somewhere to
go to that.
Speaker 1 (21:57):
That would be I would be totally at that party.
That would be a highlight for sure.
Speaker 2 (22:03):
So let's take one more quick ad break and then
we'll come back with a little bit more on highlights
and such of the past three hundred and sixty nine episodes. Well,
(22:23):
we are back talking all things best of both Worlds
and our journey over the last seven years. So one
of our earliest episodes is what we call the hurricane episode. So,
Sarah Lis, this is one of the weirdest episodes we
have ever put out. Would you want to describe the
hurricane episode, Sarah.
Speaker 3 (22:40):
Well, we just started the podcast because we must have,
because that hurricane was like a month after this podcast inception,
and we did not know at that point the art
of like having extra episodes in the hopper. And there
was a big, big hurricane that was going to hit
South Florida. Well it did hit South Florida. It was
Hurricane Irma. I was about thirty one thirty two weeks
(23:01):
pregnant at the time, and we had two little kids,
and we were like, okay, not staying in Miami Beach,
which was fully evacuated, and so we started driving and
driving and driving and driving, and I was like, I
don't think I'm gonna be able to record, you know,
it's not gonna happen. So laur I was like, well,
we could just like get on the mic and do something.
So from my sister's carpet in North Carolina, where we
(23:23):
had eventually landed, we did an episode. I don't think
it was long. I don't think I was in the
mental state to do anything very much of substance, but
I would actually be interested in listening to that.
Speaker 1 (23:34):
Probably pretty historical, and I didn't.
Speaker 3 (23:37):
Put this in the list, but I'm sure there's some
weird episodes around when COVID was hitting, like I'm not
sure how to handle no one knew, like we didn't know, well,
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (23:46):
I mean, it's hilarious because we had I mean, there's
always a trade off between recording ahead of time so
you have things ready, but then the news can come
back to bite you in ways that you can't run.
The episodes we've had and this has happened a few
times with different things, but COVID was an obvious one
where this happened because I think like our episode that
(24:09):
was for maybe the Tuesday after March thirteenth, when everything
truly shut down, so like that's the fourteenth, the seventeenth,
Like let's say March seventeenth was about getting out the
door in the morning, right, like getting your kids out
the door in the morning, which is, of course right
when nobody was getting their kids out the door in
the morning and would not be doing so for at
(24:29):
least the next two or three months. As it turned out,
so we had to shelf that one and.
Speaker 1 (24:37):
Do some other stuff. Yeah, we didn't air it. I
don't know what we did air. I don't really want
to know. Well, at the time, we thought it was
so temporary.
Speaker 2 (24:44):
I mean, I thought I believed our governor when he
said we're canceling school for two weeks, and then next
thing you know, we're out for months and months.
Speaker 1 (24:51):
So so it.
Speaker 2 (24:52):
Goes many things that we learned during that. But Sarah,
I'm very curious you listed under weirdest episodes headline here
on your note Laura interviews Sarah and Sarah interviews Laura.
Speaker 1 (25:03):
So what were so weird about? No, I didn't go
back and re listen.
Speaker 3 (25:07):
I just thought the concept was kind of weird, Like,
I mean, they hear so much about us all the
time that like, what could we have possibly been like
delving interesting?
Speaker 1 (25:16):
Again, Sarah, we need an episode here. I know how
we can get two episodes.
Speaker 3 (25:22):
It might have been a little bit like that. So sorry,
well we won't repeat that series.
Speaker 1 (25:28):
Yeah, but I gotta say.
Speaker 2 (25:29):
I mean, the more you come up with ideas, the
more you come up with ideas, And I feel like,
even though we've been doing this for three hundred and
sixty nine ideas. It's easier to get ideas now than
it was when we had only done fifteen or twenty
of them. There's something about you just get in the
mindset of what could make an episode and go.
Speaker 3 (25:50):
With it, and you also figure out what makes a
really good recurring episode and what might not or like
we did a series, we did like a screen Time
series once. But you're right, well, this us to our
next point, which is our retreats, and they are one
of my favorite parts of doing this, which is that
a couple times a year, Loaur and I like will
go somewhere and we'll record a bunch of episodes and
usually do a lot of planning type of stuff. And
(26:11):
I always feel like that is when we like get
a whole slew of ideas, like we're able to just
capture them, write them all down, and then we can
live off of that for the next six months.
Speaker 1 (26:21):
Yeah, or at least three months or so.
Speaker 2 (26:23):
I mean, we've tried to do this three times a year, roughly,
I think two or three times a year, and which
on some level, as this podcast has evolved and is
a business now, I mean it's not that it's supporting
either of us or our families, but it is a business.
The fact that we are running a business together and
only see each other in person a couple times a
(26:45):
year is kind of crazy if you think about it, Like,
there's not that many.
Speaker 1 (26:52):
Where people do that.
Speaker 2 (26:53):
So I mean we probably should get together more. And
that's I recognize on me because I'm the one who
has the job where you can do that and get
on the plane more easily. So I do promise Sarah,
I will get myself down to Florida.
Speaker 3 (27:09):
Well, I feel like with our retreats, but also like
as long as I try to capitalize on some Laura
time when I see my family, Yes, we're able to
add some bonus stuff because a lot of times I'm
there around like Christmas. Well this year, I'm going to
be there for Thanksgiving. I saw you fourth of July,
so that actually might fill in the gaps a little bit.
Speaker 1 (27:27):
Yeah, that's true. That was going to be now both
in the same place. It's great.
Speaker 2 (27:30):
Yeah, yeah, no, so it was well placed. That turned
out that I live fifteen minutes from Sarah's entire extended family,
but not really planned when we started this, but yeah, yeah, no,
we love that.
Speaker 1 (27:44):
We love our retreats. Highlights always when we find.
Speaker 2 (27:47):
Out about a guest that we'd love to have on
and then the person agrees to come on. Certainly, we
loved Best Laid Plans Live when I was able to
hang out with a lot of people were there for
Sarah's podcast, but also tended to listen to best of
both worlds. And we also love getting emails from listeners.
I mean, certainly if somebody's found a useful tip in
(28:11):
the podcast and has been able to use that in
their life, that's always like we feel like we've gotten
a little gold star, like.
Speaker 1 (28:17):
Woo was all about that. They're really helpful because I'm
not gonna lie.
Speaker 3 (28:23):
Sometimes we'll get a negative email that's a little random,
like I don't know, like you don't have to say them. Well,
there's really comment but don no, no, this is fine.
There's one I think I shared this, but like there's
a comment on our ratings thing that says like you
let your kids play in a trampoline park, and I'm like,
you knows.
Speaker 1 (28:42):
In fact, I might get.
Speaker 3 (28:44):
An email like that and feel like, oh my god,
this person hates me. Everyone hates me, So it's really
nice sometimes to get those emails that are, like, this
podcast is really fun and like, you know, maybe I
didn't find immense value in every word that was spoken,
but maybe I got something good out of it, or
it just made me smile today, and like hearing that
is so wonderful. So thank you to anyone who has
(29:05):
ever sent a positive email. Feel free to send more.
Speaker 2 (29:08):
Yeah, you can tell us you were listening to this
podcast in the car on the way to the trampoline park,
and we will be right there with you, celebrating the
existence of said parks. For Rainy Stormy Snowy said days.
All right, best of both worlds.
Speaker 1 (29:22):
Future.
Speaker 2 (29:22):
People sometimes ask us about this, I don't have any
concrete plans, maybe, Sarah us.
Speaker 3 (29:30):
I don't know, no concrete plans. It's fun. We still
have lots of ideas. We know our kids are getting older,
but I mean lots of people have older kids too,
so I'm not like super feeling panicky about that. I
feel like there's still a lot of opportunity to search
for the best of both worlds when you have school
age kids, tweens, teens, and I don't think I've totally
forgotten those baby and toather years yet so hopefully we
(29:51):
can still share valuable perspectives there as well.
Speaker 2 (29:54):
And that's something we might try to round out with
guests and things like that to people focused a little
bit more on the early years as Sarah and I
age out of that. So if you are just coming
to us, as often happened somebody's bit our podcast has
been recommended to someone as they are coming back from
maternity leave, for instance, don't worry. We will have plenty
(30:14):
of young kid related podcasting content for the foreseeable future
because we know that that is relevant and useful to
a lot of our listeners. And of course, as people
come along with us in the journey and their kids
are now seven years older than when they started it,
we will have content for older kids as well.
Speaker 3 (30:34):
All right, well, we have one more segment of today's episode, well,
in addition to our Q and a segment Laura, go ahead,
go ahead, just go yeah.
Speaker 2 (30:44):
I first called this my rant, but I'm not going
to rant.
Speaker 1 (30:46):
I'm not going to rant. You know.
Speaker 2 (30:48):
It's more the why behind this podcast, and Sarah mentioned
some of it of like they're not being anything out
there for people who were working moms, but particularly those
in more traditional all jobs who were still needing to
commute to an office and do things at certain times
that they didn't always have complete control over. And we're
(31:10):
trying to build the best of both worlds with a
big career and a big family.
Speaker 1 (31:14):
Even with that in mind, and so of course we
wanted to do that.
Speaker 2 (31:17):
But as our podcast has evolved and I've thought about
it a lot, I mean a big part of the why,
we just really have a different perspective than you'd get
from a lot of different places.
Speaker 1 (31:26):
I Mean, we.
Speaker 2 (31:27):
Were both really really into kids, Like we love kids,
we love raising them. We're raising a ton of them.
I mean, we love family life. We love being very
intentional about it, creating a happy home, thinking about like, ooh,
how can we have a summer where you know, the
kids are having adventures and we're having adventures with them
(31:48):
and doing all these cool things like how can we
make great family travel, you know? Or are the kids
doing the right mix of activities, like how can we
have a great family meeting so everything's organized. We'd spent
a ton of time I'm thinking about this, and we
also spend a ton of time thinking about our jobs,
Like we are really into building our careers and you know,
I mean, obviously I'm more on the entrepreneurial side, but
(32:10):
Sarah and many of our listeners have more traditional jobs,
and there is plenty of space for both. There's plenty
of space to be in love with your career and
all that you can do for the universe with your
talents that you've been given, and all the wonderful things
you can do with your family. That there is zero
(32:30):
contradiction between these two things. And I think this puts
us at odds with a lot of other messaging and
messaging from all over the map. I mean, this is
not political, but it comes from every side that in
every perspective you could think of. I mean there's definitely
some anti family, anti kids stuff out there. I mean
jobs that are unnecessarily inflexible, or think of all the
(32:52):
jobs you can work from home now that you couldn't
before COVID, Like what you have to fight to work
from home on Friday. There was zero reason for that
other than the people.
Speaker 1 (33:00):
Weren't doing it.
Speaker 2 (33:01):
We're like, oh, I need to see my people here
to know they're working. Like it's just ridiculous. I mean
this was anti family in a way. It just didn't
have to be. We both found, of course, that many
things are not set up for bigger families either, Like
a lot of the world assumes that you only have two,
and you know that's how it's going to be.
Speaker 1 (33:22):
So we've got that pushing that way.
Speaker 2 (33:25):
But unfortunately, a lot of the people who sort of
build themselves as pro family or pro bigger family are
kind of spouting a lot of old fashioned patriarchal nonsense
about how a good mother prioritizes motherhood over career, as
if the two cannot be done at the same time,
as if we cannot walk and choose gum chew gum.
(33:46):
There's like message, what's that, Yeah, we can choose love
that My message is that like childcare is bad and
so somehow you are failing if you use childcare, which
the result, given that the vast majority of mothers do
work for pay and many of them do not have
partners who are home with their kids full time, I
mean that childcare is part of it. And then people
feel bad about something that's a reality and for no reason.
(34:09):
So then people are doing silly things like trying to
wake up to work at four am so that they
can minimize their use of childcare because childcare.
Speaker 1 (34:15):
Is bad and it's not.
Speaker 2 (34:17):
It's not I mean, you know, or the softer versions
of like oh everyone knows you can't do this or
or whatever.
Speaker 3 (34:25):
I just I feel like it's the softer stuff that
sometimes stings more because it sort of sounds reasonable, but
then there's like a layer under it that's like, well,
you're just saying like that what I'm doing is like
the lesser option or something like that, or yes, all
these like you can't have this and this. It's like, well,
maybe I can have my version of this in this
and I'm enjoying it, and now you're making me feel
(34:46):
weird about it, Like yeah, yeah, I think I love
that you called this out, and I love that we
have this podcast to kind of show that a lot
of it isn't true.
Speaker 1 (34:57):
Yeah, it is not true.
Speaker 2 (34:58):
You can have an absolutely wonderful, happy home life with
a big family if that's what you want, and have
a big career and be totally kicking butt in that
and achieving your ambitions. And if people tell you that's
not possible, that's because maybe they don't think it's possible
for them. That that has absolutely nothing to do with you.
(35:21):
So this podcast is here cheering you on and has
been doing so for seven years, and we hope to
continue to do so for at least the next little bit,
and we hope you will.
Speaker 1 (35:33):
Stay with us.
Speaker 2 (35:33):
We're glad you are long for the journey, and thank you,
Thank you for being thank you journey, Thank you for that.
All right, So we always do a question, so we
will get to that. I will summarize this one. This
person has a couple different jobs she's choosing out. She's
been freelancing for many years, but has reached the point
in her life where she would really like healthcare benefits,
(35:54):
so she is looking to go back into the more
traditional workforce. Is one should I choose a job primarily
based on flexibility.
Speaker 1 (36:04):
She's looking between two different jobs.
Speaker 2 (36:05):
The first job she loves the position, loves the department,
loves the benefits, thinks it is a little bit more
of a as she puts it, butts in the seat position.
They say the hours are eight to four thirty. It
could be shifted slightly so, for instance nine to five thirty,
but not much beyond that. They do offer generous vacation,
personal days six days, and after ninety days she can
(36:26):
work remote one day a week, so these people are
perhaps stuck in twenty nineteen, but whatever, and then a
second job is way way more flexible, but she is
a little bit less excited about it. It doesn't seem
to be quite as good a match, but she is
pretty sure she will be able to set whatever hours
she wants work from home whenever she wants. So she says,
(36:46):
I think I would prefer the first job, but I
also think it would annoy me to have to ask
for a half personal day for say a thirty minute
vacation Bible school show for a kid, or a kid
event at four pm, when in theory I could have
just worked from home that day and shifted my hours somewhat. So,
she says, should I choose a job primarily based on flexibility? Sarah,
(37:07):
what do you think?
Speaker 1 (37:08):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (37:09):
Reading this, I mean, first of all you have to
wonder about, like, is what is being offered on paper
like actually reality? Because maybe the reality is that you
could adjust your You know, they don't want to say
you can adjust your hours, but if you really just
needed to leave thirty minutes early, you could just like
work through lunch, especially again, once they've gotten to know
you as an employee, and what your contributions are and
(37:30):
how reliable you are, and that you get your stuff done.
I just wonder if maybe things are not as strict
as it sounds. Plus the amount of personal vacation time
is true, like, Okay, maybe it would be annoying to
ask for that flexibility for that, but maybe you could
see it as like, well, I have plenty of personal days.
Let me take half a day, get a massage, and
then go to the vacation Bible show, Like it might
(37:51):
not be like the worst thing ever. So if I
think that one excites you more, I think I would
go for it, and then you can always try for
If it doesn't work out, then like you could.
Speaker 1 (38:02):
Go for the other.
Speaker 3 (38:02):
But I feel like, but the other you're always going
to regret, Like I should have gone with that first one.
The culture fit me so well and I was so
excited about it, and I didn't know if it would work,
but like, maybe it would work. It doesn't sound totally crazy.
Speaker 2 (38:13):
Yeah, I mean I tend to say you can't like
live on balance alone, like you have to like the
substance of your job. And so if you are legitimately
more excited about job number one than job number two,
then it is on you to then negotiate to get
the equivalent conditions to job number two. At job number one.
I mean, things are very, very rarely totally set in stone.
(38:35):
And if job number one lets people work remotely one
day a week after ninety days, then they are not
zero flexibility, which means it's all just on a scale
of what you are going to be able to negotiate.
So when you are offered officially job number one, be like,
I am so excited about this job.
Speaker 1 (38:53):
I really want to do it.
Speaker 2 (38:55):
I need to have a conversation with you because I
have an offer from this other place that lets you
work from home wherever and set your hours. And I
understand maybe the culture is a little bit differently here,
but I want to know that I'm going to be
able to do and then list whatever your conditions are x,
Y or Z, and I'm pretty sure if that manager
really wants you, they'll be like, yeah, well we don't
(39:17):
officially do that, but you know you're working with me.
I'm not going to report you for not being here,
and you'll be able to make it work. I mean,
if you're going back into the normal working world, I
think you want to make it worth it for you,
like you want a job that you are actually excited about.
Speaker 3 (39:33):
Yeah, and if you get a really really rigid or
off response that I guess that tells you something about
the company and maybe you would rethink things.
Speaker 1 (39:41):
Then go with job number two because you have that.
Speaker 2 (39:43):
So then you've learned something about job number one that
probably it isn't quite as exciting to you as it
might have been. So love of the week, I mean,
what can we say this podcast of course and.
Speaker 3 (39:55):
Our listeners and our listeners, we love that you guys
tune in and we love doing it. Hope to keep
it up and be back in year eight with another report.
Speaker 2 (40:05):
Yes exactly, well, as we always say, we will be
back next week starting our eighth year of this with
more on making work and life fit together.
Speaker 1 (40:15):
Thanks for listening.
Speaker 3 (40:16):
You can find me Sarah at the shoebox dot com
or at the Underscore Shoebox on Instagram, and you.
Speaker 1 (40:23):
Can find me Laura at Laura vandercam dot com. This
has been the best of both worlds podcasts.
Speaker 2 (40:30):
Please join us next time for more on making work
and life work together.
Hi.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
I'm Laura Vanderkamp. I'm a mother of five, an author, journalist,
and speaker.
Speaker 3 (00:15):
And I'm Sarah hart Hunger, a mother of three, practicing physician, writer,
and course creator. We are two working parents who love
our careers and our families.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Welcome to Best of Both Worlds. Here we talk about
how real women manage work, family, and time for fun.
From figuring out childcare to mapping out long term career goals.
We want you to get the most out of life.
Speaker 1 (00:41):
Welcome to Best of Both Worlds. This is Laura.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
This episode is airing in late August of twenty twenty four,
which is approximately seven years since our first episode of
Best of Both Worlds was launched. So happy seventh birthday, Sarah.
Happy seventh birthday. Now we're like in second grade. This
podcast has gone to elementary school. It's losing its teeth. Like,
this is all very exciting in terms of its development. Yeah,
(01:07):
we launched what was it you said? August twenty first,
twenty seventeen. Is that the official date?
Speaker 3 (01:12):
Well, now I'm calling all my statistics into questions. So
I used the podcast database listen notes to search for
best of Both Worlds and got some possibly inaccurate data
about numbers of episodes, so maybe the date is wrong
as well, but I know it was August of twenty seventeen, So.
Speaker 1 (01:29):
Yes, it was late August of twenty seventeen.
Speaker 2 (01:31):
And because I remember we were getting things going while
I was at the beach that year, same house, same thing,
We repeat the cycle of life over and over again.
But yeah, we were launching this, and so there have
been we were counting. We think there are three hundred
and sixty nine episodes.
Speaker 1 (01:49):
We could be.
Speaker 2 (01:50):
Slightly off on this, but that means that if you
are just joining us now and you are hoping to
get caught up on best of both worlds, you could
listen to an episode a day for a year and
then be joining us roughly at the present. I guess
you would have to keep listening to ones that got
released every Tuesday, but yeah, every Tuesday, seven years.
Speaker 3 (02:10):
I don't know whether I would recommend that.
Speaker 1 (02:15):
Come on, Sarah, I have a little faith in our content.
Speaker 3 (02:18):
I mean, you listen to Bach every day, and other
people could listen to an episode of this podcast every
single day. I mean, let us know if you try it.
But I'm also fine if you skip around and check
out maybe some of the old classics, but maybe not every
single one.
Speaker 2 (02:35):
Yeah, well, I'm sure it's interesting to hear how our
lives have changed, how we're talking about people.
Speaker 1 (02:39):
Of course, when we began this.
Speaker 2 (02:41):
Podcast, Genevieve was on her way but not yet with us,
and Henry was just a twinkle in my eye. So yeah,
we've grown our families at the same time this podcast
has grown and been able to watch them grow and
watch everything else change as well. So, Sarah, when we
launched this, we were told to launch with more than
(03:03):
one episode, if I remember.
Speaker 3 (03:04):
Correctly, yes, and if you are interested in starting a podcast.
Apparently this is really good practice because that way, when
you launch, I guess your initial download numbers are better
than they would be if you'd only had one episode.
I kind of wonder about that a little bit, because
when you're a very brand new podcast, how great are
the number is going to be anyway? Right, But Laura
(03:25):
was already super famous, I was slightly famous, so we
were very lucky to have some listeners that did begin
right at the start, and so we did.
Speaker 1 (03:36):
Do you want to hear the three topics? I would
love to hear the three topics? What did we decide
to launch with all.
Speaker 3 (03:40):
Right, we launched with number one, crafting the right work
life balance, not vigor all topic number two, why we
decided to have more than two kids? Also a favorite
number three, the second shift evenings with your kids. See,
we were obsessed with the Golden Hours even.
Speaker 2 (03:58):
Then, long before they branded as such. Yeah, now I
remember that we were also launching three episodes at the beginning,
shows that you're a little bit more committed to it.
I think a lot of people, if they're wondering should
I listen to this, if it looks like there's more
than one episode, then it looks like the person has
thought it through a little bit. It's not a fly
(04:19):
by night sort of thing. So certainly, if you are
thinking of starting a podcast, launching three on your launch
day and then having one a week later or whatever
your cycle is going to be, the rhythm that you
released them is.
Speaker 1 (04:30):
Probably a good idea.
Speaker 2 (04:33):
But yeah, so, I mean, we've told the origin story
of this podcast before. But Sarah and I were reading
each other's blogs. By the way, Sarah, congratulations on twenty
years of blogging.
Speaker 3 (04:45):
Twenty years of blogging. I definitely would not have expected
that when I set out to start my blog at
the age of twenty four.
Speaker 1 (04:54):
When you were medical lost and all alone. Could I
say that.
Speaker 3 (04:58):
Yeah, was lost and all alone dot blogspot dot com
of course, because who would have their own who was
their own urlis? And I thought it was just going
to be like a month long project.
Speaker 1 (05:11):
But apparently I started reading.
Speaker 2 (05:12):
So Sarah made the decision to start using capital letters
in twenty fourteen, so ten years after launching. But I
started reading before the capital letters era. I know I
was reading you twenty twelve, twenty thirteen, somewhere in there,
I think is when it happened.
Speaker 3 (05:30):
That's a new baby era. Is the new baby era
for sure as to my blog. And that's good. You
missed some really wild stuff, regretable eras.
Speaker 2 (05:41):
Not only were there no capital letters, there were regrettable
things posted on the blog.
Speaker 3 (05:47):
I don't know, it's been a fun adventure, but yeah,
it's through lots and lots of milestones recently. Okay, so
you've been reading for a very long time, and I
started reading yours and I think, I mean, I think
I left to comment on your blog maybe once, never
expecting to hear back. And then when you left one online,
I was like Oh, she's.
Speaker 1 (06:03):
A real person. How incredibly cool is that?
Speaker 3 (06:05):
And then we started commenting as one does on each
other's blogs, and then we decided to meet in person
and we had a really fun time. We didn't talk
about the podcast at that dinner, though, right.
Speaker 1 (06:17):
No, we met in person once before that.
Speaker 2 (06:19):
I don't know if you remember, because your family lives
here in Philadelphia, so I believe it was the summer
of twenty fourteen, so shortly after the Capitol letters began
that you came to visit your family and we went
for a run together.
Speaker 3 (06:34):
Yes, and you, I think had just gotten some news
of your own. I don't remember if you shared it
during that run or not.
Speaker 2 (06:41):
Did I I may have shared it because I was
pregnant with Alex. I was about three months pregnant with
Alex at the time, because I believe it was probably July.
That tends to be a time you come to visit here.
But yeah, we were running, and I guess maybe I
wanted to explain why I was so slow.
Speaker 1 (06:57):
Maybe that was why I felt I should spit the beans.
Speaker 3 (07:00):
You definitely hadn't announced it anywhere public, so it was
like a very exciting surprise. And yeah, it might have
been like, uh, go easy on me.
Speaker 2 (07:07):
Be careful, it's hot, she's going fast. Sarah's always been
faster than me, but has been willing to run with
me on occasion, which is nice.
Speaker 1 (07:16):
And then in the.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
Late spring, early summer, I want to say of twenty seventeen,
Sarah was also in town and we went out for
a fun dinner at Tallulah's Garden Secret supper Club, which
is a sort of side restaurant in their little I
don't know, it's hard to describe. So Tulua's Garland is
this nice restaurant downtown and they were running a set
(07:43):
menu called Secret Supper Club at a location right next door,
and we had dinner.
Speaker 1 (07:49):
It was good, We enjoyed it, we enjoyed chatting.
Speaker 2 (07:52):
And so then later in the summer, Sarah floated an idea.
Speaker 3 (07:59):
Sometimes I that sometimes I do that, wondering if maybe
the universe will like throw something back at me.
Speaker 1 (08:05):
And it did. It did, Laura wrote.
Speaker 3 (08:08):
Me an email, I'm not going to read the whole thing,
but I'm going to quote a little piece of it.
We said chat, I have been thinking of doing podcasts
or I suppose more Facebook alive too. There may be synergies,
and then she wrote, you're looking to start a new
project going into kid number three smiling face. So yes,
I was looking to start a new project going into
(08:29):
kid number three.
Speaker 1 (08:31):
I guess I figured, hey, i'd have maybe a little
extra time on maternity leave. Perhaps or I just felt
the pull.
Speaker 3 (08:37):
And I'm so glad I did, because I said, yes,
I actually had written you something like, oh, I have
a couple other inquiries, but you're the best.
Speaker 1 (08:44):
And we talked on the phone and made it happened. Yeah,
we did, We did.
Speaker 2 (08:49):
And I remember I was actually on an editing retreat
for Off the Clock. I had a manuscript of the
book that became Off the Clock, and I was needing
to as I often do toward the end of a manuscript,
I really want to sit down and edit it without
having to stop, without having to like go pick anyone up,
without having to make or even eat dinner, or put
(09:10):
anyone to bed. I want to just go through it.
And so I had gone off to Bear Creek Mountain,
which is a ski resort, but it was the summer, so.
Speaker 1 (09:20):
Stay there for a couple of days.
Speaker 2 (09:22):
And it was while I was there that I saw
this posted on Sarah's blog, and so yeah, a lot
of things came out of that few days away.
Speaker 1 (09:29):
It's good to be thinking a little bit more expansively.
Speaker 2 (09:32):
I actually don't think that is a coincidence, because I
don't know would I have reached out and suggested it
if I was like skimming through stuff because I was
back at life and not doing anything else.
Speaker 1 (09:44):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (09:45):
It's an interesting question. I'm happy we did well. The
stars aligned and it worked as stars aligned. All right, Well,
let's take a quick ad break and we will be
back talking a little bit more about our seven year journey.
Speaker 1 (10:08):
Well we are back talking all things, best of both worlds.
Speaker 2 (10:11):
I guess this is a little navel gazing of an episode,
but you know, forgive us, we've been around seven years,
which is very old and podcasting years. I don't know,
like dog years. I guess like forty nine or whatever
the equivalent is. I mean, initially this was just a
fun project really, I mean for both of us. But Sarah,
you'd notice that there was a bit of a hole
(10:33):
in the market in terms of podcasts that we're out there.
Speaker 3 (10:36):
Yeah, I've been a very long time podcast listener. I
think it has a lot to do with running, because
I discovered that music kind of got old. So like
I was listening to this American life on my like
iPod back in like I don't know, the mid Auts
and stuff like that, and people are like, what are
you doing?
Speaker 1 (10:52):
And I'm like, this is so cool.
Speaker 3 (10:54):
And podcasts started to get a little bit more popular,
and I started to notice that there were more sort
of aimed at women, but they were they all seem
to be stay at home moms, and they all kinda
I don't know. They talked about things that were interesting
to me. But at the same time, I was like, ah,
but my lifestyle just doesn't look like this. I'm like,
where are all the working moms And I'm like, oh, right,
they're working.
Speaker 1 (11:13):
They don't have time to do a podcast.
Speaker 3 (11:16):
Yes, And so I was like, you know, I think
I might have just enough time. I think I was
working point eight or point nine or something, I think
point eight at the time, and I was like, I
could probably in that little bit of time be that
working person and provide that needed perspective. And I think
when Laura reached out, I was like, well, this is
perfect because I have a much more structured job. She
(11:38):
has a much more like entrepreneurial, like flexible job, but
both of us have big jobs and so not only
will we cover work and parenthood, but like different kinds
of work.
Speaker 1 (11:49):
Yeah, no, it's true, there's definitely.
Speaker 2 (11:52):
I mean, it's obviously the issue with people only have
so much time, and I know I've been saddened over
the years many of the working mom blogs that I
have read have kind of disappeared because people get busy,
and if you have a couple of kids and a
big job, it's always the thing that can go.
Speaker 1 (12:09):
And so I mean, among the reasons, I'm.
Speaker 2 (12:10):
Impressed that Sarah has been able to do this for
twenty years, but as we all know, she's very good
at planning.
Speaker 3 (12:17):
No, and I also obviously really love it, like it's
it's something I'm drawn to do, rather than something I'm
like putting on my list to get to grind out
or something like that, or also wouldn't be doing it.
But yeah, I mean, I'm still drawn to podcasts like
with from this perspective, and I still don't feel like
there are definitely more than there were, but there still
aren't a ton because the truth is, like once a
(12:38):
podcast is getting big and elaborate. The hosts need to
have a lot of time.
Speaker 2 (12:44):
Yeah, yeah, but you know, Sarah's still seeing patients, so
we are legit here as she has a normal in
the office required to be their job. So we're always
trying to stay true to at least some of that perspective,
even as she has launched some more entrepreneurial unsures herself
as well. So another fun fact courtesy of my Yahoo inbox.
(13:06):
It told me the other day as I was hunting
for an email from Sarah that you and Sarah hart
Unger appeared to gather on four thousand, nine hundred and
sixty seven messages between February twenty twenty and July twenty
twenty fours. That's not even all of it by any
means whatsoever. There were fourteen messages from last week and
on average eleven point six messages per week for last
(13:27):
Year's a lot.
Speaker 1 (13:31):
I know.
Speaker 3 (13:31):
When people are like, how much time does a podcast take,
it's like, well, not that much, but also a lot like.
Speaker 2 (13:38):
Because well it's yeah, the focus time may not be
that much, but there's always the constant communication back and forth.
I mean, we text each other too, But again, it's
hard to separate out. What is that, like the split
between business related stuff and like you want to show
the new outfit we just got, so yeah, I.
Speaker 3 (13:57):
Mean it's a mix yep. The text there, oh to
redo that ad or like my kid gotta new whatever.
But no, a lot and a lot of communication, that's funny.
I actually, yeah, that sounds about right. Five thousand in
the last four years, I could.
Speaker 2 (14:10):
See sending fourteen messages away. That's like two emails a day.
That's not that out of line. Maybe are they all
for me? I don't know, no, if.
Speaker 1 (14:18):
They're not.
Speaker 2 (14:21):
So once you been your biggest surprise with doing this
for lo these many years, Sarah.
Speaker 1 (14:26):
Yeah, how many.
Speaker 3 (14:27):
Like I ERL people I have met and how many
like true real life connections have happened that feel like
a result of this podcast, And like I saw that
in person when we had Best Line Plans Live, which
was not officially a best of Both Worlds event, but many, many,
many of the participants came to know me through Best
of Both Worlds and many were listeners, and then like
(14:50):
they started branching off and making their own friendships to
the point where like now some of them traveled together
and I'm.
Speaker 1 (14:55):
Like oh my god.
Speaker 3 (14:56):
It all started with best of both worlds, Like how
amazing is that? I mean some of it started with
Laura's books and stuff like that, but still, I think
just the fact that like this online thing became a
physical reality and his like true friendships have come from
it has been super super fun and a surprise.
Speaker 2 (15:16):
Yeah. I mean it's been great just people we've met
through this, and we launched our Patreon community a few
years ago, which has been a lot of fun to have.
I mean it's not since it's a paid community. People
tend to be on their best, most helpful behavior, and
it's their real names and everything, and I think that's
something that's often missing in a lot of social media.
(15:39):
I know, people get at it through doing like closed
Facebook groups for instance, that you need to apply to join,
and that's an option as well for people to do
if they're looking to create something like this in their life.
But we've really had great discussions and a lot of
people sort of meeting up on their own or giving
each other advice or connections or anything like that. So
I've really appreciated seeing how that has happened, being able
(16:00):
to meet people in person when it's possible has also
been wonderful and Sarah has you know, I mean, you
listened to a ton of podcasts before doing this, but
you hadn't really done much interviewing people for producing content
before doing a podcast.
Speaker 1 (16:16):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (16:16):
I also put on my surprise list that I was
surprised how much I grew to enjoy interviewing other people,
like not just our conversational episodes, which felt pretty natural
from the beginning, but also interviewing people where I would
read the book and do a little bit of research
and then put together my questions and actually got like
a random not random, but like a compliment from someone
I just interviewed, where afterwards she was like, Wow, you
(16:38):
really know what you're doing. This felt so much more
like a conversation than a list of questions. And I
was like, well, I'm still feel like I'm pretending at
this because I don't have any like official She's like, no,
get over it, Like you're fine, and that's just super cool.
Like I didn't know that there'd be like growth personal
growth for me out of this venture, but I feel
like there has been.
Speaker 2 (16:57):
We all learn new skills, which is one I mean
speaking into a microphone. I mean you are speaking, but
it's like there's things associated with it too. I think
we also had a breakthrough when we started using recording
software where we can see each other. So there was
a point a few years in where we switched software
providers for that. We've always had stuff where we can
(17:19):
record a local track and then mix it together because
that tends to make the sound quality better. But now
we're using one where we can see each other, and
it just facilitates the conversation because I know I would
like start talking to you know, step On Sarah's trying
to say something, because we wouldn't be sure if the
other person was coming in. So I think that's been
really helpful too, given that we aren't in the same place.
Speaker 3 (17:39):
Definitely, I think it makes it more fun too, Like
there's something about stereot a blank screen that's a little weird.
And I had an interview a while back where they're like, no,
we don't do video, and it really did feel odd.
Speaker 2 (17:51):
So yeah, I'm really glad we can see each other. Yeah,
I mean even places that don't record the video. I mean,
because we're not recording the video, where's just that we
want to Yeah, I definitely prefer now when I can
see the person who is interviewing me or that I'm
interviewing them as well. All right, Sarah, so let's say
some favorite episodes. What have been some of your favorite
(18:11):
episodes over the past three hundred and sixty nine.
Speaker 3 (18:15):
Well, the fun Facts episode from March twenty twenty four
was definitely a highlight. I just had so much fun
doing it. And I'll say, any like Q and a
mail Bag where we're in the same room is just
extra fun, just I don't know, like there's something nice
to be recording together and actually being able to be
in the same room, read each other's body language, et cetera.
(18:36):
So I'll say, and I like Q and A's anyway,
it's fun to answer questions what about you?
Speaker 2 (18:40):
Yeah, No, The March twenty twenty four one was, I mean,
I tend to listen to most of these episodes afterwards,
sort of just general quality control. I want to make
sure that I'm listening to whatever our listeners are listening
to as well. But I listened to that one several
times because it was just so funny between the Cornflight
Girl theme. So we had come up with a list
(19:03):
of fun Fact getting to know You questions sitting at
the bar the night before and then went and recorded
in a hotel room in Naples, and yep, it was
a banner episode. So if you have not listened to
that one, please go back and do that.
Speaker 1 (19:21):
We'll have to try to link that one so they
can find it. Sarah. Of course, I was saying, you
also love our goals episodes.
Speaker 3 (19:28):
I do. I love doing them, I love having done them.
I love being able to go back and listen to
them after the fact and be like, what did I say?
Speaker 1 (19:34):
I do that? But yeah, those are so.
Speaker 3 (19:37):
Much fun to do, and I enjoy hearing them afterwards
as well.
Speaker 2 (19:42):
So some favorite guest episodes, Sarah had a particular request
early on for a guest that we were able to land.
Speaker 1 (19:50):
You want to talk about that one?
Speaker 3 (19:52):
Yes, I think I've never celebrated so much is when
you were like, we got Manouche Summarodi and I was like, yes,
because she it had like an NPR series that I
was obsessed with, and I just love her voice, and
I love the way she does journalism, and I just
think she's awesome. And I think she'd come up with
a book that I enjoyed around that time, and so
having her was thrilling. And then I'm gonna cheat and
(20:13):
say I loved having my relatives on the podcast. So
my sister in law was episode thirty one, Josh was
episode eighty five, and I couldn't find the number, but
my sister was on in September of twenty twenty.
Speaker 2 (20:25):
Yeah, that was awesome when she was talking about your
niece and her.
Speaker 1 (20:30):
Journey with that, which was so much fun to hear.
Speaker 2 (20:33):
And I mean I got to see though, like Sarah
and her sister next to each other, which is just
a hilarious They're obviously not exactly like each other, but
they are also somewhat there's a resemblance, so let's put
it that way.
Speaker 1 (20:48):
And there's a lot of mannerisms in common.
Speaker 2 (20:50):
So yeah, it was like and of course they've known
each other for forty years and so it's like they're
just immediately feeding off each other in a certain way,
which was just hilarious. Fun fact, my husband has refused
to be a guest.
Speaker 3 (21:03):
We might still win him over, but I'm not holding
my breath.
Speaker 2 (21:07):
Yeah, I don't know if we're still doing this when
he retires. Maybe it's possible, possible. Well, some of my
favorite guest episodes, I mean, are the ones that people
that we've had on more than once. I guess there's
an obvious relation between that of the people we've had
on more than once, So we ran through that. Some
of the people who we've had on more than once.
Emily Auster has been on multiple times. kJ del Antonia
(21:29):
she has been on multiple times. Jillian Goddard also been
on multiple times for those who read a Hot Flash,
which is also part of the Emily ost Parent Data Empire.
And Gretchen Rubin has also been on more than once.
So I was thinking about it. Those four people in us, Sarah,
that would be quite a fun dinner party. I mean,
(21:50):
can we do that?
Speaker 3 (21:51):
I feel like we're all busy, but I would people
are pretty busy, but to fly out to somewhere to
go to that.
Speaker 1 (21:57):
That would be I would be totally at that party.
That would be a highlight for sure.
Speaker 2 (22:03):
So let's take one more quick ad break and then
we'll come back with a little bit more on highlights
and such of the past three hundred and sixty nine episodes. Well,
(22:23):
we are back talking all things best of both Worlds
and our journey over the last seven years. So one
of our earliest episodes is what we call the hurricane episode. So,
Sarah Lis, this is one of the weirdest episodes we
have ever put out. Would you want to describe the
hurricane episode, Sarah.
Speaker 3 (22:40):
Well, we just started the podcast because we must have,
because that hurricane was like a month after this podcast inception,
and we did not know at that point the art
of like having extra episodes in the hopper. And there
was a big, big hurricane that was going to hit
South Florida. Well it did hit South Florida. It was
Hurricane Irma. I was about thirty one thirty two weeks
(23:01):
pregnant at the time, and we had two little kids,
and we were like, okay, not staying in Miami Beach,
which was fully evacuated, and so we started driving and
driving and driving and driving, and I was like, I
don't think I'm gonna be able to record, you know,
it's not gonna happen. So laur I was like, well,
we could just like get on the mic and do something.
So from my sister's carpet in North Carolina, where we
(23:23):
had eventually landed, we did an episode. I don't think
it was long. I don't think I was in the
mental state to do anything very much of substance, but
I would actually be interested in listening to that.
Speaker 1 (23:34):
Probably pretty historical, and I didn't.
Speaker 3 (23:37):
Put this in the list, but I'm sure there's some
weird episodes around when COVID was hitting, like I'm not
sure how to handle no one knew, like we didn't know, well,
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (23:46):
I mean, it's hilarious because we had I mean, there's
always a trade off between recording ahead of time so
you have things ready, but then the news can come
back to bite you in ways that you can't run.
The episodes we've had and this has happened a few
times with different things, but COVID was an obvious one
where this happened because I think like our episode that
(24:09):
was for maybe the Tuesday after March thirteenth, when everything
truly shut down, so like that's the fourteenth, the seventeenth,
Like let's say March seventeenth was about getting out the
door in the morning, right, like getting your kids out
the door in the morning, which is, of course right
when nobody was getting their kids out the door in
the morning and would not be doing so for at
(24:29):
least the next two or three months. As it turned out,
so we had to shelf that one and.
Speaker 1 (24:37):
Do some other stuff. Yeah, we didn't air it. I
don't know what we did air. I don't really want
to know. Well, at the time, we thought it was
so temporary.
Speaker 2 (24:44):
I mean, I thought I believed our governor when he
said we're canceling school for two weeks, and then next
thing you know, we're out for months and months.
Speaker 1 (24:51):
So so it.
Speaker 2 (24:52):
Goes many things that we learned during that. But Sarah,
I'm very curious you listed under weirdest episodes headline here
on your note Laura interviews Sarah and Sarah interviews Laura.
Speaker 1 (25:03):
So what were so weird about? No, I didn't go
back and re listen.
Speaker 3 (25:07):
I just thought the concept was kind of weird, Like,
I mean, they hear so much about us all the
time that like, what could we have possibly been like
delving interesting?
Speaker 1 (25:16):
Again, Sarah, we need an episode here. I know how
we can get two episodes.
Speaker 3 (25:22):
It might have been a little bit like that. So sorry,
well we won't repeat that series.
Speaker 1 (25:28):
Yeah, but I gotta say.
Speaker 2 (25:29):
I mean, the more you come up with ideas, the
more you come up with ideas, And I feel like,
even though we've been doing this for three hundred and
sixty nine ideas. It's easier to get ideas now than
it was when we had only done fifteen or twenty
of them. There's something about you just get in the
mindset of what could make an episode and go.
Speaker 3 (25:50):
With it, and you also figure out what makes a
really good recurring episode and what might not or like
we did a series, we did like a screen Time
series once. But you're right, well, this us to our
next point, which is our retreats, and they are one
of my favorite parts of doing this, which is that
a couple times a year, Loaur and I like will
go somewhere and we'll record a bunch of episodes and
usually do a lot of planning type of stuff. And
(26:11):
I always feel like that is when we like get
a whole slew of ideas, like we're able to just
capture them, write them all down, and then we can
live off of that for the next six months.
Speaker 1 (26:21):
Yeah, or at least three months or so.
Speaker 2 (26:23):
I mean, we've tried to do this three times a year, roughly,
I think two or three times a year, and which
on some level, as this podcast has evolved and is
a business now, I mean it's not that it's supporting
either of us or our families, but it is a business.
The fact that we are running a business together and
only see each other in person a couple times a
(26:45):
year is kind of crazy if you think about it, Like,
there's not that many.
Speaker 1 (26:52):
Where people do that.
Speaker 2 (26:53):
So I mean we probably should get together more. And
that's I recognize on me because I'm the one who
has the job where you can do that and get
on the plane more easily. So I do promise Sarah,
I will get myself down to Florida.
Speaker 3 (27:09):
Well, I feel like with our retreats, but also like
as long as I try to capitalize on some Laura
time when I see my family, Yes, we're able to
add some bonus stuff because a lot of times I'm
there around like Christmas. Well this year, I'm going to
be there for Thanksgiving. I saw you fourth of July,
so that actually might fill in the gaps a little bit.
Speaker 1 (27:27):
Yeah, that's true. That was going to be now both
in the same place. It's great.
Speaker 2 (27:30):
Yeah, yeah, no, so it was well placed. That turned
out that I live fifteen minutes from Sarah's entire extended family,
but not really planned when we started this, but yeah, yeah, no,
we love that.
Speaker 1 (27:44):
We love our retreats. Highlights always when we find.
Speaker 2 (27:47):
Out about a guest that we'd love to have on
and then the person agrees to come on. Certainly, we
loved Best Laid Plans Live when I was able to
hang out with a lot of people were there for
Sarah's podcast, but also tended to listen to best of
both worlds. And we also love getting emails from listeners.
I mean, certainly if somebody's found a useful tip in
(28:11):
the podcast and has been able to use that in
their life, that's always like we feel like we've gotten
a little gold star, like.
Speaker 1 (28:17):
Woo was all about that. They're really helpful because I'm
not gonna lie.
Speaker 3 (28:23):
Sometimes we'll get a negative email that's a little random,
like I don't know, like you don't have to say them. Well,
there's really comment but don no, no, this is fine.
There's one I think I shared this, but like there's
a comment on our ratings thing that says like you
let your kids play in a trampoline park, and I'm like,
you knows.
Speaker 1 (28:42):
In fact, I might get.
Speaker 3 (28:44):
An email like that and feel like, oh my god,
this person hates me. Everyone hates me, So it's really
nice sometimes to get those emails that are, like, this
podcast is really fun and like, you know, maybe I
didn't find immense value in every word that was spoken,
but maybe I got something good out of it, or
it just made me smile today, and like hearing that
is so wonderful. So thank you to anyone who has
(29:05):
ever sent a positive email. Feel free to send more.
Speaker 2 (29:08):
Yeah, you can tell us you were listening to this
podcast in the car on the way to the trampoline park,
and we will be right there with you, celebrating the
existence of said parks. For Rainy Stormy Snowy said days.
All right, best of both worlds.
Speaker 1 (29:22):
Future.
Speaker 2 (29:22):
People sometimes ask us about this, I don't have any
concrete plans, maybe, Sarah us.
Speaker 3 (29:30):
I don't know, no concrete plans. It's fun. We still
have lots of ideas. We know our kids are getting older,
but I mean lots of people have older kids too,
so I'm not like super feeling panicky about that. I
feel like there's still a lot of opportunity to search
for the best of both worlds when you have school
age kids, tweens, teens, and I don't think I've totally
forgotten those baby and toather years yet so hopefully we
(29:51):
can still share valuable perspectives there as well.
Speaker 2 (29:54):
And that's something we might try to round out with
guests and things like that to people focused a little
bit more on the early years as Sarah and I
age out of that. So if you are just coming
to us, as often happened somebody's bit our podcast has
been recommended to someone as they are coming back from
maternity leave, for instance, don't worry. We will have plenty
(30:14):
of young kid related podcasting content for the foreseeable future
because we know that that is relevant and useful to
a lot of our listeners. And of course, as people
come along with us in the journey and their kids
are now seven years older than when they started it,
we will have content for older kids as well.
Speaker 3 (30:34):
All right, well, we have one more segment of today's episode, well,
in addition to our Q and a segment Laura, go ahead,
go ahead, just go yeah.
Speaker 2 (30:44):
I first called this my rant, but I'm not going
to rant.
Speaker 1 (30:46):
I'm not going to rant. You know.
Speaker 2 (30:48):
It's more the why behind this podcast, and Sarah mentioned
some of it of like they're not being anything out
there for people who were working moms, but particularly those
in more traditional all jobs who were still needing to
commute to an office and do things at certain times
that they didn't always have complete control over. And we're
(31:10):
trying to build the best of both worlds with a
big career and a big family.
Speaker 1 (31:14):
Even with that in mind, and so of course we
wanted to do that.
Speaker 2 (31:17):
But as our podcast has evolved and I've thought about
it a lot, I mean a big part of the why,
we just really have a different perspective than you'd get
from a lot of different places.
Speaker 1 (31:26):
I Mean, we.
Speaker 2 (31:27):
Were both really really into kids, Like we love kids,
we love raising them. We're raising a ton of them.
I mean, we love family life. We love being very
intentional about it, creating a happy home, thinking about like, ooh,
how can we have a summer where you know, the
kids are having adventures and we're having adventures with them
(31:48):
and doing all these cool things like how can we
make great family travel, you know? Or are the kids
doing the right mix of activities, like how can we
have a great family meeting so everything's organized. We'd spent
a ton of time I'm thinking about this, and we
also spend a ton of time thinking about our jobs,
Like we are really into building our careers and you know,
I mean, obviously I'm more on the entrepreneurial side, but
(32:10):
Sarah and many of our listeners have more traditional jobs,
and there is plenty of space for both. There's plenty
of space to be in love with your career and
all that you can do for the universe with your
talents that you've been given, and all the wonderful things
you can do with your family. That there is zero
(32:30):
contradiction between these two things. And I think this puts
us at odds with a lot of other messaging and
messaging from all over the map. I mean, this is
not political, but it comes from every side that in
every perspective you could think of. I mean there's definitely
some anti family, anti kids stuff out there. I mean
jobs that are unnecessarily inflexible, or think of all the
(32:52):
jobs you can work from home now that you couldn't
before COVID, Like what you have to fight to work
from home on Friday. There was zero reason for that
other than the people.
Speaker 1 (33:00):
Weren't doing it.
Speaker 2 (33:01):
We're like, oh, I need to see my people here
to know they're working. Like it's just ridiculous. I mean
this was anti family in a way. It just didn't
have to be. We both found, of course, that many
things are not set up for bigger families either, Like
a lot of the world assumes that you only have two,
and you know that's how it's going to be.
Speaker 1 (33:22):
So we've got that pushing that way.
Speaker 2 (33:25):
But unfortunately, a lot of the people who sort of
build themselves as pro family or pro bigger family are
kind of spouting a lot of old fashioned patriarchal nonsense
about how a good mother prioritizes motherhood over career, as
if the two cannot be done at the same time,
as if we cannot walk and choose gum chew gum.
(33:46):
There's like message, what's that, Yeah, we can choose love
that My message is that like childcare is bad and
so somehow you are failing if you use childcare, which
the result, given that the vast majority of mothers do
work for pay and many of them do not have
partners who are home with their kids full time, I
mean that childcare is part of it. And then people
feel bad about something that's a reality and for no reason.
(34:09):
So then people are doing silly things like trying to
wake up to work at four am so that they
can minimize their use of childcare because childcare.
Speaker 1 (34:15):
Is bad and it's not.
Speaker 2 (34:17):
It's not I mean, you know, or the softer versions
of like oh everyone knows you can't do this or
or whatever.
Speaker 3 (34:25):
I just I feel like it's the softer stuff that
sometimes stings more because it sort of sounds reasonable, but
then there's like a layer under it that's like, well,
you're just saying like that what I'm doing is like
the lesser option or something like that, or yes, all
these like you can't have this and this. It's like, well,
maybe I can have my version of this in this
and I'm enjoying it, and now you're making me feel
(34:46):
weird about it, Like yeah, yeah, I think I love
that you called this out, and I love that we
have this podcast to kind of show that a lot
of it isn't true.
Speaker 1 (34:57):
Yeah, it is not true.
Speaker 2 (34:58):
You can have an absolutely wonderful, happy home life with
a big family if that's what you want, and have
a big career and be totally kicking butt in that
and achieving your ambitions. And if people tell you that's
not possible, that's because maybe they don't think it's possible
for them. That that has absolutely nothing to do with you.
(35:21):
So this podcast is here cheering you on and has
been doing so for seven years, and we hope to
continue to do so for at least the next little bit,
and we hope you will.
Speaker 1 (35:33):
Stay with us.
Speaker 2 (35:33):
We're glad you are long for the journey, and thank you,
Thank you for being thank you journey, Thank you for that.
All right, So we always do a question, so we
will get to that. I will summarize this one. This
person has a couple different jobs she's choosing out. She's
been freelancing for many years, but has reached the point
in her life where she would really like healthcare benefits,
(35:54):
so she is looking to go back into the more
traditional workforce. Is one should I choose a job primarily
based on flexibility.
Speaker 1 (36:04):
She's looking between two different jobs.
Speaker 2 (36:05):
The first job she loves the position, loves the department,
loves the benefits, thinks it is a little bit more
of a as she puts it, butts in the seat position.
They say the hours are eight to four thirty. It
could be shifted slightly so, for instance nine to five thirty,
but not much beyond that. They do offer generous vacation,
personal days six days, and after ninety days she can
(36:26):
work remote one day a week, so these people are
perhaps stuck in twenty nineteen, but whatever, and then a
second job is way way more flexible, but she is
a little bit less excited about it. It doesn't seem
to be quite as good a match, but she is
pretty sure she will be able to set whatever hours
she wants work from home whenever she wants. So she says,
(36:46):
I think I would prefer the first job, but I
also think it would annoy me to have to ask
for a half personal day for say a thirty minute
vacation Bible school show for a kid, or a kid
event at four pm, when in theory I could have
just worked from home that day and shifted my hours somewhat. So,
she says, should I choose a job primarily based on flexibility? Sarah,
(37:07):
what do you think?
Speaker 1 (37:08):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (37:09):
Reading this, I mean, first of all you have to
wonder about, like, is what is being offered on paper
like actually reality? Because maybe the reality is that you
could adjust your You know, they don't want to say
you can adjust your hours, but if you really just
needed to leave thirty minutes early, you could just like
work through lunch, especially again, once they've gotten to know
you as an employee, and what your contributions are and
(37:30):
how reliable you are, and that you get your stuff done.
I just wonder if maybe things are not as strict
as it sounds. Plus the amount of personal vacation time
is true, like, Okay, maybe it would be annoying to
ask for that flexibility for that, but maybe you could
see it as like, well, I have plenty of personal days.
Let me take half a day, get a massage, and
then go to the vacation Bible show, Like it might
(37:51):
not be like the worst thing ever. So if I
think that one excites you more, I think I would
go for it, and then you can always try for
If it doesn't work out, then like you could.
Speaker 1 (38:02):
Go for the other.
Speaker 3 (38:02):
But I feel like, but the other you're always going
to regret, Like I should have gone with that first one.
The culture fit me so well and I was so
excited about it, and I didn't know if it would work,
but like, maybe it would work. It doesn't sound totally crazy.
Speaker 2 (38:13):
Yeah, I mean I tend to say you can't like
live on balance alone, like you have to like the
substance of your job. And so if you are legitimately
more excited about job number one than job number two,
then it is on you to then negotiate to get
the equivalent conditions to job number two. At job number one.
I mean, things are very, very rarely totally set in stone.
(38:35):
And if job number one lets people work remotely one
day a week after ninety days, then they are not
zero flexibility, which means it's all just on a scale
of what you are going to be able to negotiate.
So when you are offered officially job number one, be like,
I am so excited about this job.
Speaker 1 (38:53):
I really want to do it.
Speaker 2 (38:55):
I need to have a conversation with you because I
have an offer from this other place that lets you
work from home wherever and set your hours. And I
understand maybe the culture is a little bit differently here,
but I want to know that I'm going to be
able to do and then list whatever your conditions are x,
Y or Z, and I'm pretty sure if that manager
really wants you, they'll be like, yeah, well we don't
(39:17):
officially do that, but you know you're working with me.
I'm not going to report you for not being here,
and you'll be able to make it work. I mean,
if you're going back into the normal working world, I
think you want to make it worth it for you,
like you want a job that you are actually excited about.
Speaker 3 (39:33):
Yeah, and if you get a really really rigid or
off response that I guess that tells you something about
the company and maybe you would rethink things.
Speaker 1 (39:41):
Then go with job number two because you have that.
Speaker 2 (39:43):
So then you've learned something about job number one that
probably it isn't quite as exciting to you as it
might have been. So love of the week, I mean,
what can we say this podcast of course and.
Speaker 3 (39:55):
Our listeners and our listeners, we love that you guys
tune in and we love doing it. Hope to keep
it up and be back in year eight with another report.
Speaker 2 (40:05):
Yes exactly, well, as we always say, we will be
back next week starting our eighth year of this with
more on making work and life fit together.
Speaker 1 (40:15):
Thanks for listening.
Speaker 3 (40:16):
You can find me Sarah at the shoebox dot com
or at the Underscore Shoebox on Instagram, and you.
Speaker 1 (40:23):
Can find me Laura at Laura vandercam dot com. This
has been the best of both worlds podcasts.
Speaker 2 (40:30):
Please join us next time for more on making work
and life work together.
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