July 8, 2025 • 40 mins
In today’s episode, Sarah interviews Marcy Syms, former CEO of an apparel corporation and current founding trustee and president of the Sy Syms Foundation. Marcy believes that clothing is a form of self-respect, and a powerful PR tool. She discusses why it makes sense to invest time and money into our wardrobes, and how to do so effectively, with some surprisiing suggestions about where and how to shop!
Marcy’s book, Leading with Respect: Adventures of an Off-Price Fashion Pioneer, is out in August.
In the Q&A, a listener who is not yet making significant earnings (though her partner is) wonders how to navigate the younger-kid years from a financial perspective.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
Hi. I'm Laura Vanderkamp. I'm a mother of five, an author, journalist,
and speaker.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
And I'm Sarah hart Hunger, a mother of three, practicing physician, writer,
and courtse creator. We are two working parents who love
our careers and our families.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
Welcome to best of both worlds. Here we talk about
how real women manage work, family, and time for fun.
From figuring out childcare to mapping out long term career goals.
We want you to get the most out of life.
Welcome to best of both worlds. This is Laura. This
episode is airing in July twenty twenty five. Sarah is
(00:46):
going to be interviewing Mercy Simms, who's was the CEO
of SIMS Corporation, which is sell designer and brand name
apparel and housewares. She's also currently the founding trustee and
president of the Si Sims found But they're going to
be talking all about clothing as a form of self care. Sarah,
what do you think that maybe you can elaborate a
(01:09):
little bit on that.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
Yeah, I like the idea of clothing as a form.
She uses the word self care and self respect, so
I guess respecting ourselves elevating ourselves by making sure that
what we have on the outside reflects how awesome we
are on the inside. And that's not always the default
mindset of everyone. Some people might even say the opposite, Oh,
it's the inside that counts. But I do say I
(01:32):
do feel like, especially as I've gotten older, it does
matter to me to feel good in what I'm wearing. Yeah,
do you feel like has your approach evolved with wearing
clothing that you feel like respects you or makes you
feel elevated in some way, or do you feel like
things have been more the same over time?
Speaker 1 (01:51):
You know, it's so hard. I do generally want to
have clothes that are nice and comfortable, and I don't
want to say spend too much time thinking about it,
either putting together the outfits or purchasing the outfits, which
means that if I like a piece of clothing, I
want it to last forever, which unfortunately tends not to
be the case. I really wish it were, and I
(02:14):
try to buy repeats of anything I love before it
wears out. I've had some luck buying on Etsy or Poshmark,
not Etsy, eBay sorry and Poshmark when things disappear, but
sometimes even the same thing will fit differently. I don't know.
It's just people rework cuts, and I don't know. I
would love to pay more for stuff that would last forever,
(02:34):
but my feeling is a lot of stuff, even nice stuff,
doesn't last forever, and that makes me sad. But you know,
so I go back and forth on this. If I
knew something would last forever, I would be happy to
pay for it, But since many things do not last forever,
I do wind up buying some sort of like more
affordable stuff, knowing it will only get a year of
(02:55):
use out of it. But sometimes the nice stuff only
gets a year of use out of it too.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
It's true, and that can be really disappointing. I feel
like I will spend out to get like the right fit,
the right drape, the right fabric. And it's not always
a get what you pay for a situation, But I think,
within reason, it can be. If I've decided a certain
store is like within my reach, I actually have gotten
to the point where I don't pay as much. I mean,
I'm spending my own allowance, which is like a limited
(03:21):
set of funding, but I try not to look at
sales or pay a lot of attention to price tags. Now,
there are certain stores that are absolutely not within my reach,
like Veronica Beard gorgeous stuff, but like if I go
to the website, I'm just like, I can not, I
cannot pay this much money. But within brands that it's
like within reach, I don't look. I just look at
like this is going to fit my body, This looks
(03:41):
like it will last, This looks like it's made out
of good quality. And that's definitely something that has changed.
I also have really elevated my workout where I mean,
I'm working on it. I have some items that still
could I just identify that. I feel like I need
a whole new set of sports spras, which is fine,
but yeah, that and my lounge wear has definitely gotten
(04:03):
a slow upgrade over time, and I've gotten to the
point where I don't really want to feel super schlovey,
even if I'm just sitting at home. So I'm super
excited for this conversation.
Speaker 1 (04:12):
Yeah, it's right. My workout wear is one of the
few places where I feel like I have found something
that lasted a long time. My athleta running tights their
capris and they have big pockets on the side, which
is good because you can put like your keys in
or your phone in. But the problem is I can't
find that exact one anymore. I don't know they stopped
(04:33):
making them, which is too bad. I have several but
and they've lasted for more than ten years, probably fifteen
years now, but it's sad that I can't seem to
find them. So if anyone has favorite, you know, running
capris that have big pockets, let me know. I'd love
to love to know about this. Do you have a
(04:53):
favorite professional outfit?
Speaker 3 (04:54):
Sarah?
Speaker 2 (04:55):
Lately, I've been using this rap dress by a brand
called Percifour, which it got while working with Real Life
Styles Lannie Inlander as a stylist, and I've worn into
multiple talks and I love that it's like v neac
but there's no like bra issues and it's a rap
dress so it just fits super well. But the brand
went out of business, so I can't replicate this dress.
Speaker 1 (05:16):
This is he might have to wear it until it
wears such Mark orybe for another one of those. Yeah,
I've I Actually I wear these Beta brand black pants,
you know, the yoga dress pants. Yes, but unfortunately that's
what I bought, like another pair of the pants because
they're getting old.
Speaker 3 (05:33):
Now.
Speaker 1 (05:34):
I've had them for like five six years and the
cut is different. I don't know. It's the exact same size,
it's the same thing, and the cut is completely different.
So I don't understand, but you know, it is what
it is. I tend to wear a colorful top of
some sort and then a black rap. That's my speaking outfit.
Speaker 2 (05:53):
I love it. Yeah, all right, Well, I'm excited to
hear from Marcy. So I am so excited to be
here today with Mark Sims. She was CEO of sims Core,
which was operating in sixteen states selling designer and brand
name apparel and housewares to educated consumers, and we'll talk
about that. And currently she is a social entrepreneur, philanthropist,
(06:14):
and the new author of Leading with Respect, Adventures of
an Off price Fashion Pioneer. So welcome Marcie to the show.
Speaker 3 (06:23):
Thank you. I'm so happy to be here. I think
you're terrific and I've enjoyed catching up with some of
your most recent podcasts in order to be with you
here today.
Speaker 2 (06:36):
Oh that makes me so happy. That is excellent. Will
you fit right in as you probably figured out as
we are all about ways to make work in life
fit together, and you are an expert on all things workware,
so I am so excited to dive in. Even if
I do, I am a physician and usually were scrubs
to work, but still there are other times when I
need to look good. So this is going to be
(06:57):
personally useful as well as I'm sure for our audience. Okay,
So I am super curious because in your tagline it
talked about your company catering to educated consumers, and I
just want to know what is your take on that, Like,
what is an educated consumer exactly?
Speaker 3 (07:15):
Well, it's someone who doesn't get ripped off basically. So
when you go shopping, what is your most reliable indicator
of the value that you can expect to get. What's
the promise of value? Usually that's tied in with the
brand name, but we have gone very much into generic
(07:38):
or private label clothing, so you have to be even
more educated. You have to on your own understand the
value of fibers, the value of cutmake and trim, how
something is put together. And lastly, especially in our moment,
you also have to be aware of taxes and how
(08:01):
much is added on to the price tag you're paying
because of tariffs.
Speaker 2 (08:07):
Super interesting. So it's a whole layer and tariffs aren't
new obviously, but obviously the scope of them may go
up and down, and that can change how much that
influences the price tag.
Speaker 3 (08:17):
That's a really interesting point, if I may, because when
I first entered the business, tariff's was a really big
deal in how we negotiated. They were bartered. Tariffs were
bartered between countries. Tariffs were negotiated at the customs, at
the ports whenever, whether it was LA or New York
(08:37):
in our case where most of the apparel comes through
this country, and it was a pain, let me tell you,
it took a lot of administrative time. Now we might
be able to brush this off on AI and have
AI do tariffs, but I really doubt that because so
much might depend on whether there is embroidery around the zipper,
(09:02):
is the zipper plastic, is the hook metal? What are
the different really minute characteristics of every garment, and how
is each part tariffed.
Speaker 2 (09:14):
It's a pain fascinating because I of course just assumed
it was just like whatever percent and oh it sounds
so much more complicated than that much very interesting. Well,
how do you get that education, I guess is my
first question.
Speaker 3 (09:29):
Well, I got it the honest way. I was born
into it. When I was about ten, just before my
tenth birthday, my father opened his first retail store and
he had really become a retailer again the honest way
with his father, and he was doing discounting. Now, discounting
(09:52):
is when you pay the wholesale price and then you
take a shorter markup to the consumer. So let's say
you buy something for fifty dollars and you only mark
it up fifty percent, so you mark it seventy five dollars.
But let's say the other retailers that mark it up
one hundred percent are now going to sell it for
(10:15):
one hundred dollars, so double the fifty. Well, my father
didn't do that. He decided he was going to do
what he and he really anointed off price. An off
price for us meant and we had to educate people
about this. Off price meant below whostsale. So if it
(10:35):
was a fifty dollars hostsale at the end of the
season or approaching the end of the season, the manufacturer
knows what they're not going to be able to sell,
and they would negotiate with us for a certain percentage
below what their wholesale price was. So we like to
say that we would like to purchase within fifteen to
(10:56):
twenty five percent of cost, and then we would mark
up within ten percent of the wholesale price, so the
consumer would always get an incredible bargain.
Speaker 2 (11:09):
So incredibly slim margins, yes, but overall kind of getting
the same stuff. Maybe not the first round of picked stuff,
but like the second round of pick stuff curt a
much much, much lower price.
Speaker 3 (11:20):
We'd like to say that if purple were the hot
collar of the season, an umpire, or let's say capri
pants with a hot look of the season, we might
not get them combined, but you'd be able to buy
Caprice in green or yellow, and you'd be able to
buy purple in something else.
Speaker 2 (11:43):
Totally makes sense. Okay, Well, I didn't even know that
definition of off price, but in your opinion, off price
is kind of like fashion's best kept secret. Would you
say that's still true?
Speaker 3 (11:54):
I would say that there are some areas, yes, And
I would say that there are some areas and some
retailers today, to my mind, the best value right now
is really in resale shops. Really really, I mean I
saw the growth of this start in twenty fifteen and
it has just taken off. I mean before that time,
(12:15):
it was goodwill, right, but as we went through the
time where designer merchandise was not as plentiful, and really
it was second and third tier designer. So you have
Ralph Lauren, and then you have Ralph, and then you
have Larin and then you know, you have all of
these iterations around a designer. The idea of real designer clothing,
(12:38):
the best value is to buy something someone else owned.
Speaker 2 (12:42):
And hopefully didn't wear very much and took very good
care of. Probably from a sustainability perspective, also a very
wonderful thing to be doing.
Speaker 3 (12:51):
Fascinating absolutely because fast fashion, which is one of the
things that actually brought designer to its knees, fashion is
a terrible thing for our planet.
Speaker 2 (13:04):
Totally makes sense. So getting to that the idea that
people should invest and whether that's investing extra time because
finding things on the resale market can definitely be a
little bit more time consuming or investing extra money because
you're getting a high end label, even if it's a discount,
that still might not be a low amount of money.
(13:26):
One of your slogans is that workware is self worthware,
so that that time or money is worth it. Can
you unpack that a little bit.
Speaker 3 (13:34):
Well, just think about how many hours a week you
spend working and in order to feel really at the
top of your game, which is always an asset. Whether
it's just a sense of organization or a sense of
preparation or a sense of you know, I'm going to
just kill this. A lot of that has to do
(13:58):
with what looks back at you when you look in
the mirror, and just simplistically, that has to do with
what's on your body. Certainly it helps to have a
good body image, but we'll use that with a wellness episode.
But just looking at yourself, what colors do you feel
(14:20):
look good on you, What silhouettes look good on you,
What fabrics don't bother you. I know a lot of
people who just can't stand wearing polyester or viscos or
having anything like that, or a label in the neckline.
Make sure all of those things are taken care of
before you take off for an appointment or a podcast
(14:44):
or going to work.
Speaker 2 (14:45):
I can see that. I mean, there's definitely a huge
difference when you find yourself in something. I think you
notice it, especially when you're wearing something that doesn't work, like, oh,
this is so distracting, and I don't feel like my
best self and I'm adjusting something all day long and
oh my God, versus almost not thinking about it or
just kind of feeling this sense of confidence. You might
not even be thinking about your outfit, but it's like there,
(15:07):
and it's related.
Speaker 3 (15:09):
And so much of that too, has to do with
the fit. I happen to be someone with short arms,
I'll never be able to box with God. And so
everything that I purchase, I have to shorten the arms.
Even a petite I have to shorten by about an
inch and a half. And I know when I wear
(15:29):
something that I haven't gone that extra step. How when
I enter the room, can they see how long my
sleeves are? So it's so psychological, the feeling of preparation
and being at your best.
Speaker 2 (15:45):
That makes sense. Well, we're going to take a quick
break and we are going to be back talking about
ways to shop. All right, we are back, and we've
kind of mentioned fast fashion a little bit and some
(16:08):
of the problems there, and one big trend is obviously
people buying a lot of stuff online, and that can
even be true in the pre owned market because there's
you know, lots of websites for that now as well
as going to, you know, an in person store. I
personally have gotten to a point where I am sort
of tired of online shopping in general, because I'm five
(16:29):
foot one and none of the models are five foot one,
and it's like, unless it's a brand that I just
know that they fit me, it's too boring because I
know that there's a significant chance of sending it back.
And then I recently learned that when you send stuff
back often they throw it away, which made me just ill.
So anyway, what are your thoughts on in person versus online,
(16:55):
whether that applies to kind of like an off price retailer,
or even best practices for looking for pre owned.
Speaker 3 (17:02):
My rule of thumb in using the internet actually for emergencies,
it's great if you can get something delivered the next day. Okay,
So we're not going to be talking about that specifically
because that's a unique situation that's an emergency, and that's
(17:23):
on the side here, but in general, if you're buying
something that you've owned before, in other words, an undergarment,
a bra a pante something that you know the brand,
you know how it's going to fit, you know it's
right for you. Use the internet. It's a real time saver.
It's not always the least expensive, and certainly if you
(17:46):
don't get free shipping it it can really add up,
but it does save time and it is dependable usually right,
usually always.
Speaker 2 (17:57):
I've wondered the same size of something and then I'm like,
this should be the same, and it's not even the same.
Speaker 3 (18:02):
This is true, this is true, and that's happened to
me also. So maybe I shouldn't say it's good for emergencies,
but it can be, but it can be. But I
would say for fashion, if you have not been able
to see yourself in something and feel yourself move in something,
(18:24):
it's not just enough to put it on and a
virtual and avatar wears it. You've got to know how
your butt feels in it, how your arm feels you
know your armpits move in it, and that you can
only do in person. And I would say pick your
favorite one or two stores, and don't make it a
(18:47):
visit when you must get something, make it a visit
when there's a change in season. Go in there. Have
an hour and a half, buy yourself a coffee and
some personal time, and and try on and don't feel
any pressure. You might find a new look for this
season that you hadn't worn before and it's just right
(19:10):
for you for now.
Speaker 2 (19:12):
I love that, And because I definitely don't do enough
of that, And I think there's this story we tell
ourselves that we could just everything's online now and this
is like the new modern way to shop, and I
just I'm personally kind of disappointed in it after doing
it for a while. So and yet I don't think
we give ourselves permission to just go in a store,
(19:32):
which thankfully still exists, by the way, they won't if
we don't go to them. Yes, and to go with
no pressure every once in a while, just like okay,
change of season. All right, let's see if there's stuff
that I need or that that fits my needs. I
guess because and you know what.
Speaker 3 (19:48):
You could also. I mean what I do is there
are pieces that I've kept for many, many years, and
those pieces can be incorporated in next seasons or the
new look or whatever. And I can't tell you what's
satisfaction it is to take something that I wore twenty
two years ago and make it look brand new because
(20:10):
it's with a different scar, or it has a different top,
or you know, the color combinations look zippy for today.
So there can be satisfaction in that.
Speaker 2 (20:22):
Absolutely. I found this sweater from like definitely over solid,
maybe fifteen years old, and interestingly I didn't wear it
because back then I felt like it was too cropped.
But that was before all the pants were high waisted,
and now it actually looks better and more modern than
it did that and I'm like, I'm so glad I
kept this special piece because now I like it even more.
Speaker 3 (20:42):
Yeah, I love when that happens. It just makes you
feel really smart.
Speaker 2 (20:48):
Exactly. Well, speaking of smart and buying things that are
smart and will have longevity in her closet, there have
been notes about several wardrobe essentials that if you are
building your or drove from scratch or looking for just
sort of like the most important pieces and you're just
maybe you've took a break from work and you're going back.
(21:09):
We definitely have listeners who had kids and took some
time off and now they're back and they're back in
person and they're like, oh my gosh, I have to rebuild.
What are some essentials that you would start with.
Speaker 3 (21:18):
I would immediately ask you what is your foundational color?
For me, my foundational color is black or navy blue. Okay,
so every piece that I purchase in my essential wardrobe
and this can help you with packing for trips as well.
(21:39):
Pick your essential color and have things that coordinate with that.
Pieces that you want to have. You talk about black.
You never have enough black shoes or black pants, just
like never. And then you want to have a black
summer jacket which is one hundred percent cotton, and you
(21:59):
want to have a black winter jacket. And I'm not
talking at exterior jackets. I'm talking well, there's too much
air conditioning, or I'm going outside to meet someone for
coffee jacket that's like a blazer looking kind of thing.
So those would be to start with you. You have
to have those basic solid color the foundational color of
(22:25):
your wardrobe pieces. And then white, whether it's navy or
green or red, whatever your it shouts out at me,
this is who I am. Color is white is always
a compliment to that, so accent or accessory pieces, whether
it's a basic white blouse, it is a white and
(22:48):
design scarf that you can use in the spring and
summer season, or a black background color scarf that you
can use in the all in winter season. These are
really essentials. I mean you can actually use those maybe
four pieces, the pants, the jacket, the white blouse, let's
(23:11):
say a skirt, the black skirt, or the black simple dress.
You can actually build on that as a foundation for
any wardrobe pretty much today, in any country, pretty much today,
in any climate.
Speaker 2 (23:27):
That makes sense because I'm in South Florida where it's warm,
but that does not protect us from aggressive air conditioning,
and it also does not protect us from wanting to
have some sort of seasonality to just how we want
to look. So it makes sense that that applies because
so much.
Speaker 3 (23:41):
Of clothing I think is also mood. It does create
a mood not only within you but around you. And
so what mood do you want to create? We get
fifteen seconds. Actually that's a little long, I bet you
today it's three seconds in order to make an impression.
(24:02):
So what mood are you going to create in those
three seconds?
Speaker 2 (24:06):
And I can imagine that's especially important as you're meeting
new people in a new role.
Speaker 3 (24:11):
Absolutely, yeah, you're.
Speaker 2 (24:13):
All of a sudden projecting this image, and probably once
who've projected that initial image, it's hard to go back.
Speaker 3 (24:20):
It's really hard to change what people think. Change is
one of those things humans just don't like too much.
Speaker 2 (24:29):
Yeah, well, we're going to take another break, and when
we're back, we're going to talk a little bit about
multitasking garments that might take us from work to everything else.
(24:50):
All right, we're back, and I can already picture this
beautiful work wardrobe of like high end but discounted our
secondhand designer jackets, a skirt and a pair of pants
that fits perfectly in the right kind of fabric. But
let's say someone also is like, listen, I don't love
spending money on clothes, so if I do, I want
(25:10):
it to do double duty. I want to be able
to go to brunch or you know, maybe wear it
to like a party or something. What do you feel
like are the best multitaskers out there?
Speaker 3 (25:19):
I happen to really like not denim. I like non
blue colored denim, like black, Yeah, black denim. Really in
a black denim jacket, you know, I'm just a black bit.
You know, I love black, but black regular cut pants
(25:40):
instead of the gene cut, using that denim look that
can go from work just put on a necklace or
a sum sparkly top. There's so much sequenting now that's
really fun to wear. There are so many sequins, know,
just T shirts that you can put on underneath a
(26:03):
denim jacket. They really if you put a sparkly T
shirt in your day bag, just put it on in
the bathroom and you're a night baby.
Speaker 2 (26:14):
I love it taking your work pants. And that's so true,
like a structured black denim that you can't even really
tell is denim. Could I had a pair of Genes
once that I used to I don't think we were
allowed to wear gens technically, and I still wore these
for like years because I was like, yeah, they're close enough,
and they were. They were a nice brand and they
fit really well. And yeah, so that I now.
Speaker 3 (26:33):
Because denim has become so an artisan kind of item
with tears and embroidery and painting, et cetera, there is
the more conservative look denim, and the more you know,
I'm out there going to the flea market this weekend, denim.
Speaker 2 (26:53):
I love it. Okay, so jeans, any other specific pieces
that you would say are great for again, going from
that to brunch.
Speaker 3 (27:01):
Maybe I like cotton their oblong scarves. Cotton oblong scarves.
They can be used around your neck. I have many
in different colors. My favorite, of course, is black with
small specks of white stars like it. Yeah, so, and
(27:25):
it goes because it's cotton, and because of the size,
it can act as a showl. It can act as
just something around your neck, as something that amplifies your outfit,
or just you wanting to keep warm, or you're transitioning
from daytime to the cool of night. But because of
(27:45):
its size, it can just be thrown over your shoulders,
or it can be just thrown around your neck or
tied around your neck. It can even be used around
your hips or your waist. So it's a very adaptable
accessory that I think comes in handy, particularly for travel.
Speaker 2 (28:04):
Makes sense something to have around as a kind of
a catch all, kind of morph your outfit or change
the mood of it and use in different ways. Awesome. Well,
here's a fun question. Any common mistakes you see people making.
They're rushing to get their work wardrobe together or to
update it, and you know they do some things wrong.
Maybe they're investing in the wrong types of things. Maybe
(28:26):
they are buying too much too soon, Maybe they are
just sort of changing themselves. I don't know, what do
you see in terms of some of the most common mistakes.
Speaker 3 (28:34):
To me, the most common mistake that really goes across
all societal income, every group really comes down to fit.
Because there are those that walk out of the house
and because they can't see the back of themselves, don't
(28:55):
realize that those pants really are unattractive if you look
at the back of you, and they might be fine
in the front, but in the back. Probably one of
the most common in America right now is the whole
midriff area, whether it's for men or women, that somehow
(29:17):
we think everything's a headshot, everything's you know, above the shoulders,
but the in between between your waist and your you know,
above your midsection, we tend to put on weight there,
particularly past a certain age, and for those who don't
understand that that means you need more material. I think
(29:41):
it's a little embarrassing. You know, I don't really want
to see your belly button coming over the bottom of
your pants. Yeah, I mean at your waist. Those most
embarrassing things are to me fit because very honestly, I
have a very broad tolerance for different decisions in design
(30:04):
and color, but I don't infit because that's taking the
time to know your body, to figure out what work
needs to be done on the item before you walk
out wearing it.
Speaker 2 (30:16):
And to be fair, this is I think what you're
saying is not overweight. People should not show their bodies.
It's not that if people are wanting this is more
the unintentional of they're not meaning to. Their outfit just
does not actually contain them properly, and they're probably not
even comfortable.
Speaker 3 (30:32):
So that's right. Yeah, that's a huge point. How could
that be comfortable? I must say that being a manager,
it was really we were very strict about how someone
was going to be dressed in the store, and particularly
in the area of men's suit or men's suits department
(30:53):
and the outerwear department where tailoring was so important, and
it was something to teach people who who weren't used to,
who were really used to wearing stretches to come in
and put a wardrobe together with suits and ties and
et cetera. Not so much ties anymore, but at least
(31:13):
that notch collar.
Speaker 2 (31:16):
And it is very true that when you see someone
in clothing that just fits them very very well. No
matter what the body type, it looks better and that
does sometimes require tailoring. As a short person, like a
lot of times for me, I can't just buy something
and expect it'll look sort of silly. And it's annoying
to have that extra expense. But I see how it
makes sense.
Speaker 3 (31:36):
It is. I always resent it, and as I told you,
I need to do it all the time whenever I
buy something. So but it really makes a difference.
Speaker 2 (31:46):
Awesome. Well, this has been so fun. I feel like
a more educated consumer after this conversation. And I had
promised that we were going to share a love of
the week this week, like we do every week, and
I'll go first to give you time to get your
thoughts together. Okay, but my love of the week is
that you know, when you go on a trip and
you want to have a souvenir and you want to
(32:07):
get something, but like you don't want something that is
going to just clutter up your house and be ultimately garbage.
We have decided that the perfect souvenir for our household
on most trips is a mug, because you know, mugs
do ultimately not last forever, forever, And I wouldn't say
I want to buy one on every single trip because
then they might accumulate. But buying a nice mug and
(32:28):
then being like, oh, my morning coffee and a reminder
of like New Hampshire where we just went, it's just
so fun and it's actually useful. So I am into
the nice souvenir mug. That's my love of the week.
Speaker 3 (32:41):
I don't want to be a copycat, but you do
make me think that I just came back from a
trip and I hadn't been away for a really long time,
like a year, and I because I was finishing up
the book and all that. But I went to Santa
Fe for the first time and there were ow much
beautiful pottery, and yes, I did buy a mug, but
(33:05):
also I saw something I had never seen before that
was done by one of the native tribes who was
the longest lived Adobe community, and they were showing their
wares outside their Adobe homes, and we took a day
to visit and I fell in love with this piece
(33:28):
of pottery that had to be shipped because it was
too big for me to carry it. And it was
called the Friendship Bowl, and it had small people on
the top of the opening of the bowl and they
were holding hands. So there was a circle of these
little tiny clay creatures that were all holding hands around
(33:51):
the bowl. And it just came. It just arrived on Friday,
and I opened it and I loved it. And when
I was looking at it, similar to what you did,
said and was told that if you buy something like this,
you will have a story always about your visits to
Santa Fe. And that's a good way to buy souvenirs,
(34:12):
something that gives you a story to.
Speaker 2 (34:14):
Tell and that makes you happy every time you look
at it, which it sounds like this definitely does. And
I'm so glad it made the trip because it sounds
incredibly delicate, so like it really was.
Speaker 3 (34:24):
I was nervous taking the bubble wrap off.
Speaker 2 (34:27):
Like please, every person has to be intact. Yes, that's awesome,
because tell our listeners where they can find you, and
remind us one more time about your book.
Speaker 3 (34:36):
So right now on Amazon leading with respect, it Ventures
of an Off Price Fashion Pioneer by me Marcy Simms
can be ordered. I think the drop date is August
twenty six, So anyone who's listening please pre order because
(34:58):
it really makes a difference, they tell me.
Speaker 2 (35:00):
And it sounds like it will be a very fun read,
hopefully lots of like cool history, but also learning. Oh yes,
I want to learn more now.
Speaker 3 (35:08):
Yes, it's all about sharing experience and wisdom.
Speaker 2 (35:13):
Awesome, Thank you so much for coming on, Marci.
Speaker 3 (35:15):
Thank you. It was fun.
Speaker 1 (35:18):
Well, that was great learning about how style and clothing
can be a form of self care and self respect,
matching how awesome we are on the inside to how
we look on the outside. So this question comes from
a listener who says, your podcast seems to be geared
toward higher earning couples, and I am a few years
away from joining your target audience. My husband is already
(35:40):
in that bucket. He's a physician and has been for
several years now, but this particular listener is still twoish
years out from finishing her PhD. Until then, I make
a fairly meager stipend after graduation. It might take me
a few years to sort of work up to what
i'd consider a robust salary. She says, you've both had
life stages with lower incomes and to set your sites
(36:00):
on multiple kids. What advice would you give to me
for context? They have a two and a half year
old and a baby. They're hoping to have at least
a third kid in a couple of years. So Sarah,
what would you say.
Speaker 2 (36:11):
Well, the five people probably won't like this, but when
we were both residents or we were actually fellows by
the point that we were having Annabelle, we just didn't
save anything, and in fact, we kind of like dipped
into the savings that we had in order to pay
for daycare and get the highest quality care we could get,
and we knew that was going to be very expensive,
but we also knew it was going to be temporary.
(36:33):
So I do think there's like the mindset that certain
years are just like investment years in your future. You're
investing money and raising your child, well, you're investing money
in your future career, and your particular circumstance sounds less
extreme than ours, because hey, you already have one partner
who's earning well, so you may not even need to
go into debt. It just may mean being a little
(36:53):
bit more I don't know, like treading water for a
few years rather than putting lots away. But I definitely
want you to make sure you're not thinking, oh, well,
I'm not earning, so somehow the child cares all my
responsibility and how can we be spending on that, because
I mean, you have to look at this as like
one big picture. These are your kids together and in
(37:16):
the end, you earning is going to also benefit the
whole family. So I actually don't even know how much
mental gymnastics you need to just say, make sure you
use his salary to make things work as well as
possible when the kids are little, especially if it sounds
like you want multiple young kids back to back.
Speaker 1 (37:33):
Yeah. Absolutely, I mean there's no magic time to have kids,
so I wouldn't worry about that. You can have the
kid whenever you have your third, when you wish to
have your third, have a fourth when you wish to
have your fourth. But if your husband is currently earning
a good living, then use that to purchase the support
you need to launch your career. And over time, I
(37:54):
guess is that you will make a good salary too,
and so it will have been a wise financial move
for you to stay and finish this degree and get
your big job later on. And I agree with Sarah
like compounding is awesome. I love the idea of putting
small amounts away over time, and the you know, the
longer you're in, the better. But the thing is, like
(38:17):
when we're putting small amounts in, you have to understand
that even at a sort of robust rate of return,
like the doubling, time is a couple of years here, right,
Like if you're getting nine percent interest, which is high.
Speaker 2 (38:30):
The BA is this the investment podcast, so you can
tell total time is eight years?
Speaker 1 (38:34):
Okay, there's the rule of seventy two. So the money
you put in now, if you put in at nine
percent interest, will double in eight years. Now, if it's
going to be absolutely painful for you to save x
amount now and it would be far less painful for
you to save two x eight years from now, don't
worry about it. But don't worry about it, right, Like
(38:54):
if you know, as Sarah and Josh knew that they
were going to be working as physicians in a couple
of years and they would both be earning good salaries
that they would be able to save more, then like,
figure you will two x or three x what you
could save now when it would be painful to save
versus in eight years when it will be far less
painful to save now. Obviously you have to do that.
You have to trust that your future self will be
(39:15):
willing to save the money to catch up from this time.
But if you believe that is the case, and it
sounds like by that time you will be earning a
lot of money and your kids will be in school,
so your childcare bills will probably fall, then that's fine.
It's okay to look at this all over a longer
period of time.
Speaker 2 (39:32):
Yeah, and math wise, I mean, assuming that you are
putting this money into your career and you do end
up with a higher earning salary, I can't imagine the
math not working out in your favor. Yeah, you know,
even if whatever you're saving doubles. I mean, if it's
at the expense of you getting and enjoying life, earning
more later down the line, I don't I don't think
it would work out.
Speaker 1 (39:53):
Yeah, it's almost you. Yeah, enjoy life. That's our takeaway
from this listener question. All right, So this episode, Sarah
has been interviewing Marcia Simms about clothing and style as
a form of self care and self respect. We will
be back next week with more on making work and
life fit together.
Speaker 2 (40:15):
Thanks for listening. You can find me Sarah at the
shoebox dot com or at the Underscore Shoebox on Instagram,
and you.
Speaker 1 (40:23):
Can find me Laura at Laura vandercam dot com. This
has been the best of both worlds podcasts. Please join
us next time for more on making work and life
work together.
Hi. I'm Laura Vanderkamp. I'm a mother of five, an author, journalist,
and speaker.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
And I'm Sarah hart Hunger, a mother of three, practicing physician, writer,
and courtse creator. We are two working parents who love
our careers and our families.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
Welcome to best of both worlds. Here we talk about
how real women manage work, family, and time for fun.
From figuring out childcare to mapping out long term career goals.
We want you to get the most out of life.
Welcome to best of both worlds. This is Laura. This
episode is airing in July twenty twenty five. Sarah is
(00:46):
going to be interviewing Mercy Simms, who's was the CEO
of SIMS Corporation, which is sell designer and brand name
apparel and housewares. She's also currently the founding trustee and
president of the Si Sims found But they're going to
be talking all about clothing as a form of self care. Sarah,
what do you think that maybe you can elaborate a
(01:09):
little bit on that.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
Yeah, I like the idea of clothing as a form.
She uses the word self care and self respect, so
I guess respecting ourselves elevating ourselves by making sure that
what we have on the outside reflects how awesome we
are on the inside. And that's not always the default
mindset of everyone. Some people might even say the opposite, Oh,
it's the inside that counts. But I do say I
(01:32):
do feel like, especially as I've gotten older, it does
matter to me to feel good in what I'm wearing. Yeah,
do you feel like has your approach evolved with wearing
clothing that you feel like respects you or makes you
feel elevated in some way, or do you feel like
things have been more the same over time?
Speaker 1 (01:51):
You know, it's so hard. I do generally want to
have clothes that are nice and comfortable, and I don't
want to say spend too much time thinking about it,
either putting together the outfits or purchasing the outfits, which
means that if I like a piece of clothing, I
want it to last forever, which unfortunately tends not to
be the case. I really wish it were, and I
(02:14):
try to buy repeats of anything I love before it
wears out. I've had some luck buying on Etsy or Poshmark,
not Etsy, eBay sorry and Poshmark when things disappear, but
sometimes even the same thing will fit differently. I don't know.
It's just people rework cuts, and I don't know. I
would love to pay more for stuff that would last forever,
(02:34):
but my feeling is a lot of stuff, even nice stuff,
doesn't last forever, and that makes me sad. But you know,
so I go back and forth on this. If I
knew something would last forever, I would be happy to
pay for it, But since many things do not last forever,
I do wind up buying some sort of like more
affordable stuff, knowing it will only get a year of
(02:55):
use out of it. But sometimes the nice stuff only
gets a year of use out of it too.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
It's true, and that can be really disappointing. I feel
like I will spend out to get like the right fit,
the right drape, the right fabric. And it's not always
a get what you pay for a situation, But I think,
within reason, it can be. If I've decided a certain
store is like within my reach, I actually have gotten
to the point where I don't pay as much. I mean,
I'm spending my own allowance, which is like a limited
(03:21):
set of funding, but I try not to look at
sales or pay a lot of attention to price tags. Now,
there are certain stores that are absolutely not within my reach,
like Veronica Beard gorgeous stuff, but like if I go
to the website, I'm just like, I can not, I
cannot pay this much money. But within brands that it's
like within reach, I don't look. I just look at
like this is going to fit my body, This looks
(03:41):
like it will last, This looks like it's made out
of good quality. And that's definitely something that has changed.
I also have really elevated my workout where I mean,
I'm working on it. I have some items that still
could I just identify that. I feel like I need
a whole new set of sports spras, which is fine,
but yeah, that and my lounge wear has definitely gotten
(04:03):
a slow upgrade over time, and I've gotten to the
point where I don't really want to feel super schlovey,
even if I'm just sitting at home. So I'm super
excited for this conversation.
Speaker 1 (04:12):
Yeah, it's right. My workout wear is one of the
few places where I feel like I have found something
that lasted a long time. My athleta running tights their
capris and they have big pockets on the side, which
is good because you can put like your keys in
or your phone in. But the problem is I can't
find that exact one anymore. I don't know they stopped
(04:33):
making them, which is too bad. I have several but
and they've lasted for more than ten years, probably fifteen
years now, but it's sad that I can't seem to
find them. So if anyone has favorite, you know, running
capris that have big pockets, let me know. I'd love
to love to know about this. Do you have a
(04:53):
favorite professional outfit?
Speaker 3 (04:54):
Sarah?
Speaker 2 (04:55):
Lately, I've been using this rap dress by a brand
called Percifour, which it got while working with Real Life
Styles Lannie Inlander as a stylist, and I've worn into
multiple talks and I love that it's like v neac
but there's no like bra issues and it's a rap
dress so it just fits super well. But the brand
went out of business, so I can't replicate this dress.
Speaker 1 (05:16):
This is he might have to wear it until it
wears such Mark orybe for another one of those. Yeah,
I've I Actually I wear these Beta brand black pants,
you know, the yoga dress pants. Yes, but unfortunately that's
what I bought, like another pair of the pants because
they're getting old.
Speaker 3 (05:33):
Now.
Speaker 1 (05:34):
I've had them for like five six years and the
cut is different. I don't know. It's the exact same size,
it's the same thing, and the cut is completely different.
So I don't understand, but you know, it is what
it is. I tend to wear a colorful top of
some sort and then a black rap. That's my speaking outfit.
Speaker 2 (05:53):
I love it. Yeah, all right, Well, I'm excited to
hear from Marcy. So I am so excited to be
here today with Mark Sims. She was CEO of sims Core,
which was operating in sixteen states selling designer and brand
name apparel and housewares to educated consumers, and we'll talk
about that. And currently she is a social entrepreneur, philanthropist,
(06:14):
and the new author of Leading with Respect, Adventures of
an Off price Fashion Pioneer. So welcome Marcie to the show.
Speaker 3 (06:23):
Thank you. I'm so happy to be here. I think
you're terrific and I've enjoyed catching up with some of
your most recent podcasts in order to be with you
here today.
Speaker 2 (06:36):
Oh that makes me so happy. That is excellent. Will
you fit right in as you probably figured out as
we are all about ways to make work in life
fit together, and you are an expert on all things workware,
so I am so excited to dive in. Even if
I do, I am a physician and usually were scrubs
to work, but still there are other times when I
need to look good. So this is going to be
(06:57):
personally useful as well as I'm sure for our audience. Okay,
So I am super curious because in your tagline it
talked about your company catering to educated consumers, and I
just want to know what is your take on that, Like,
what is an educated consumer exactly?
Speaker 3 (07:15):
Well, it's someone who doesn't get ripped off basically. So
when you go shopping, what is your most reliable indicator
of the value that you can expect to get. What's
the promise of value? Usually that's tied in with the
brand name, but we have gone very much into generic
(07:38):
or private label clothing, so you have to be even
more educated. You have to on your own understand the
value of fibers, the value of cutmake and trim, how
something is put together. And lastly, especially in our moment,
you also have to be aware of taxes and how
(08:01):
much is added on to the price tag you're paying
because of tariffs.
Speaker 2 (08:07):
Super interesting. So it's a whole layer and tariffs aren't
new obviously, but obviously the scope of them may go
up and down, and that can change how much that
influences the price tag.
Speaker 3 (08:17):
That's a really interesting point, if I may, because when
I first entered the business, tariff's was a really big
deal in how we negotiated. They were bartered. Tariffs were
bartered between countries. Tariffs were negotiated at the customs, at
the ports whenever, whether it was LA or New York
(08:37):
in our case where most of the apparel comes through
this country, and it was a pain, let me tell you,
it took a lot of administrative time. Now we might
be able to brush this off on AI and have
AI do tariffs, but I really doubt that because so
much might depend on whether there is embroidery around the zipper,
(09:02):
is the zipper plastic, is the hook metal? What are
the different really minute characteristics of every garment, and how
is each part tariffed.
Speaker 2 (09:14):
It's a pain fascinating because I of course just assumed
it was just like whatever percent and oh it sounds
so much more complicated than that much very interesting. Well,
how do you get that education, I guess is my
first question.
Speaker 3 (09:29):
Well, I got it the honest way. I was born
into it. When I was about ten, just before my
tenth birthday, my father opened his first retail store and
he had really become a retailer again the honest way
with his father, and he was doing discounting. Now, discounting
(09:52):
is when you pay the wholesale price and then you
take a shorter markup to the consumer. So let's say
you buy something for fifty dollars and you only mark
it up fifty percent, so you mark it seventy five dollars.
But let's say the other retailers that mark it up
one hundred percent are now going to sell it for
(10:15):
one hundred dollars, so double the fifty. Well, my father
didn't do that. He decided he was going to do
what he and he really anointed off price. An off
price for us meant and we had to educate people
about this. Off price meant below whostsale. So if it
(10:35):
was a fifty dollars hostsale at the end of the
season or approaching the end of the season, the manufacturer
knows what they're not going to be able to sell,
and they would negotiate with us for a certain percentage
below what their wholesale price was. So we like to
say that we would like to purchase within fifteen to
(10:56):
twenty five percent of cost, and then we would mark
up within ten percent of the wholesale price, so the
consumer would always get an incredible bargain.
Speaker 2 (11:09):
So incredibly slim margins, yes, but overall kind of getting
the same stuff. Maybe not the first round of picked stuff,
but like the second round of pick stuff curt a
much much, much lower price.
Speaker 3 (11:20):
We'd like to say that if purple were the hot
collar of the season, an umpire, or let's say capri
pants with a hot look of the season, we might
not get them combined, but you'd be able to buy
Caprice in green or yellow, and you'd be able to
buy purple in something else.
Speaker 2 (11:43):
Totally makes sense. Okay, Well, I didn't even know that
definition of off price, but in your opinion, off price
is kind of like fashion's best kept secret. Would you
say that's still true?
Speaker 3 (11:54):
I would say that there are some areas, yes, And
I would say that there are some areas and some
retailers today, to my mind, the best value right now
is really in resale shops. Really really, I mean I
saw the growth of this start in twenty fifteen and
it has just taken off. I mean before that time,
(12:15):
it was goodwill, right, but as we went through the
time where designer merchandise was not as plentiful, and really
it was second and third tier designer. So you have
Ralph Lauren, and then you have Ralph, and then you
have Larin and then you know, you have all of
these iterations around a designer. The idea of real designer clothing,
(12:38):
the best value is to buy something someone else owned.
Speaker 2 (12:42):
And hopefully didn't wear very much and took very good
care of. Probably from a sustainability perspective, also a very
wonderful thing to be doing.
Speaker 3 (12:51):
Fascinating absolutely because fast fashion, which is one of the
things that actually brought designer to its knees, fashion is
a terrible thing for our planet.
Speaker 2 (13:04):
Totally makes sense. So getting to that the idea that
people should invest and whether that's investing extra time because
finding things on the resale market can definitely be a
little bit more time consuming or investing extra money because
you're getting a high end label, even if it's a discount,
that still might not be a low amount of money.
(13:26):
One of your slogans is that workware is self worthware,
so that that time or money is worth it. Can
you unpack that a little bit.
Speaker 3 (13:34):
Well, just think about how many hours a week you
spend working and in order to feel really at the
top of your game, which is always an asset. Whether
it's just a sense of organization or a sense of
preparation or a sense of you know, I'm going to
just kill this. A lot of that has to do
(13:58):
with what looks back at you when you look in
the mirror, and just simplistically, that has to do with
what's on your body. Certainly it helps to have a
good body image, but we'll use that with a wellness episode.
But just looking at yourself, what colors do you feel
(14:20):
look good on you, What silhouettes look good on you,
What fabrics don't bother you. I know a lot of
people who just can't stand wearing polyester or viscos or
having anything like that, or a label in the neckline.
Make sure all of those things are taken care of
before you take off for an appointment or a podcast
(14:44):
or going to work.
Speaker 2 (14:45):
I can see that. I mean, there's definitely a huge
difference when you find yourself in something. I think you
notice it, especially when you're wearing something that doesn't work, like, oh,
this is so distracting, and I don't feel like my
best self and I'm adjusting something all day long and
oh my God, versus almost not thinking about it or
just kind of feeling this sense of confidence. You might
not even be thinking about your outfit, but it's like there,
(15:07):
and it's related.
Speaker 3 (15:09):
And so much of that too, has to do with
the fit. I happen to be someone with short arms,
I'll never be able to box with God. And so
everything that I purchase, I have to shorten the arms.
Even a petite I have to shorten by about an
inch and a half. And I know when I wear
(15:29):
something that I haven't gone that extra step. How when
I enter the room, can they see how long my
sleeves are? So it's so psychological, the feeling of preparation
and being at your best.
Speaker 2 (15:45):
That makes sense. Well, we're going to take a quick
break and we are going to be back talking about
ways to shop. All right, we are back, and we've
kind of mentioned fast fashion a little bit and some
(16:08):
of the problems there, and one big trend is obviously
people buying a lot of stuff online, and that can
even be true in the pre owned market because there's
you know, lots of websites for that now as well
as going to, you know, an in person store. I
personally have gotten to a point where I am sort
of tired of online shopping in general, because I'm five
(16:29):
foot one and none of the models are five foot one,
and it's like, unless it's a brand that I just
know that they fit me, it's too boring because I
know that there's a significant chance of sending it back.
And then I recently learned that when you send stuff
back often they throw it away, which made me just ill.
So anyway, what are your thoughts on in person versus online,
(16:55):
whether that applies to kind of like an off price retailer,
or even best practices for looking for pre owned.
Speaker 3 (17:02):
My rule of thumb in using the internet actually for emergencies,
it's great if you can get something delivered the next day. Okay,
So we're not going to be talking about that specifically
because that's a unique situation that's an emergency, and that's
(17:23):
on the side here, but in general, if you're buying
something that you've owned before, in other words, an undergarment,
a bra a pante something that you know the brand,
you know how it's going to fit, you know it's
right for you. Use the internet. It's a real time saver.
It's not always the least expensive, and certainly if you
(17:46):
don't get free shipping it it can really add up,
but it does save time and it is dependable usually right,
usually always.
Speaker 2 (17:57):
I've wondered the same size of something and then I'm like,
this should be the same, and it's not even the same.
Speaker 3 (18:02):
This is true, this is true, and that's happened to
me also. So maybe I shouldn't say it's good for emergencies,
but it can be, but it can be. But I
would say for fashion, if you have not been able
to see yourself in something and feel yourself move in something,
(18:24):
it's not just enough to put it on and a
virtual and avatar wears it. You've got to know how
your butt feels in it, how your arm feels you
know your armpits move in it, and that you can
only do in person. And I would say pick your
favorite one or two stores, and don't make it a
(18:47):
visit when you must get something, make it a visit
when there's a change in season. Go in there. Have
an hour and a half, buy yourself a coffee and
some personal time, and and try on and don't feel
any pressure. You might find a new look for this
season that you hadn't worn before and it's just right
(19:10):
for you for now.
Speaker 2 (19:12):
I love that, And because I definitely don't do enough
of that, And I think there's this story we tell
ourselves that we could just everything's online now and this
is like the new modern way to shop, and I
just I'm personally kind of disappointed in it after doing
it for a while. So and yet I don't think
we give ourselves permission to just go in a store,
(19:32):
which thankfully still exists, by the way, they won't if
we don't go to them. Yes, and to go with
no pressure every once in a while, just like okay,
change of season. All right, let's see if there's stuff
that I need or that that fits my needs. I
guess because and you know what.
Speaker 3 (19:48):
You could also. I mean what I do is there
are pieces that I've kept for many, many years, and
those pieces can be incorporated in next seasons or the
new look or whatever. And I can't tell you what's
satisfaction it is to take something that I wore twenty
two years ago and make it look brand new because
(20:10):
it's with a different scar, or it has a different top,
or you know, the color combinations look zippy for today.
So there can be satisfaction in that.
Speaker 2 (20:22):
Absolutely. I found this sweater from like definitely over solid,
maybe fifteen years old, and interestingly I didn't wear it
because back then I felt like it was too cropped.
But that was before all the pants were high waisted,
and now it actually looks better and more modern than
it did that and I'm like, I'm so glad I
kept this special piece because now I like it even more.
Speaker 3 (20:42):
Yeah, I love when that happens. It just makes you
feel really smart.
Speaker 2 (20:48):
Exactly. Well, speaking of smart and buying things that are
smart and will have longevity in her closet, there have
been notes about several wardrobe essentials that if you are
building your or drove from scratch or looking for just
sort of like the most important pieces and you're just
maybe you've took a break from work and you're going back.
(21:09):
We definitely have listeners who had kids and took some
time off and now they're back and they're back in
person and they're like, oh my gosh, I have to rebuild.
What are some essentials that you would start with.
Speaker 3 (21:18):
I would immediately ask you what is your foundational color?
For me, my foundational color is black or navy blue. Okay,
so every piece that I purchase in my essential wardrobe
and this can help you with packing for trips as well.
(21:39):
Pick your essential color and have things that coordinate with that.
Pieces that you want to have. You talk about black.
You never have enough black shoes or black pants, just
like never. And then you want to have a black
summer jacket which is one hundred percent cotton, and you
(21:59):
want to have a black winter jacket. And I'm not
talking at exterior jackets. I'm talking well, there's too much
air conditioning, or I'm going outside to meet someone for
coffee jacket that's like a blazer looking kind of thing.
So those would be to start with you. You have
to have those basic solid color the foundational color of
(22:25):
your wardrobe pieces. And then white, whether it's navy or
green or red, whatever your it shouts out at me,
this is who I am. Color is white is always
a compliment to that, so accent or accessory pieces, whether
it's a basic white blouse, it is a white and
(22:48):
design scarf that you can use in the spring and
summer season, or a black background color scarf that you
can use in the all in winter season. These are
really essentials. I mean you can actually use those maybe
four pieces, the pants, the jacket, the white blouse, let's
(23:11):
say a skirt, the black skirt, or the black simple dress.
You can actually build on that as a foundation for
any wardrobe pretty much today, in any country, pretty much today,
in any climate.
Speaker 2 (23:27):
That makes sense because I'm in South Florida where it's warm,
but that does not protect us from aggressive air conditioning,
and it also does not protect us from wanting to
have some sort of seasonality to just how we want
to look. So it makes sense that that applies because
so much.
Speaker 3 (23:41):
Of clothing I think is also mood. It does create
a mood not only within you but around you. And
so what mood do you want to create? We get
fifteen seconds. Actually that's a little long, I bet you
today it's three seconds in order to make an impression.
(24:02):
So what mood are you going to create in those
three seconds?
Speaker 2 (24:06):
And I can imagine that's especially important as you're meeting
new people in a new role.
Speaker 3 (24:11):
Absolutely, yeah, you're.
Speaker 2 (24:13):
All of a sudden projecting this image, and probably once
who've projected that initial image, it's hard to go back.
Speaker 3 (24:20):
It's really hard to change what people think. Change is
one of those things humans just don't like too much.
Speaker 2 (24:29):
Yeah, well, we're going to take another break, and when
we're back, we're going to talk a little bit about
multitasking garments that might take us from work to everything else.
(24:50):
All right, we're back, and I can already picture this
beautiful work wardrobe of like high end but discounted our
secondhand designer jackets, a skirt and a pair of pants
that fits perfectly in the right kind of fabric. But
let's say someone also is like, listen, I don't love
spending money on clothes, so if I do, I want
(25:10):
it to do double duty. I want to be able
to go to brunch or you know, maybe wear it
to like a party or something. What do you feel
like are the best multitaskers out there?
Speaker 3 (25:19):
I happen to really like not denim. I like non
blue colored denim, like black, Yeah, black denim. Really in
a black denim jacket, you know, I'm just a black bit.
You know, I love black, but black regular cut pants
(25:40):
instead of the gene cut, using that denim look that
can go from work just put on a necklace or
a sum sparkly top. There's so much sequenting now that's
really fun to wear. There are so many sequins, know,
just T shirts that you can put on underneath a
(26:03):
denim jacket. They really if you put a sparkly T
shirt in your day bag, just put it on in
the bathroom and you're a night baby.
Speaker 2 (26:14):
I love it taking your work pants. And that's so true,
like a structured black denim that you can't even really
tell is denim. Could I had a pair of Genes
once that I used to I don't think we were
allowed to wear gens technically, and I still wore these
for like years because I was like, yeah, they're close enough,
and they were. They were a nice brand and they
fit really well. And yeah, so that I now.
Speaker 3 (26:33):
Because denim has become so an artisan kind of item
with tears and embroidery and painting, et cetera, there is
the more conservative look denim, and the more you know,
I'm out there going to the flea market this weekend, denim.
Speaker 2 (26:53):
I love it. Okay, so jeans, any other specific pieces
that you would say are great for again, going from
that to brunch.
Speaker 3 (27:01):
Maybe I like cotton their oblong scarves. Cotton oblong scarves.
They can be used around your neck. I have many
in different colors. My favorite, of course, is black with
small specks of white stars like it. Yeah, so, and
(27:25):
it goes because it's cotton, and because of the size,
it can act as a showl. It can act as
just something around your neck, as something that amplifies your outfit,
or just you wanting to keep warm, or you're transitioning
from daytime to the cool of night. But because of
(27:45):
its size, it can just be thrown over your shoulders,
or it can be just thrown around your neck or
tied around your neck. It can even be used around
your hips or your waist. So it's a very adaptable
accessory that I think comes in handy, particularly for travel.
Speaker 2 (28:04):
Makes sense something to have around as a kind of
a catch all, kind of morph your outfit or change
the mood of it and use in different ways. Awesome. Well,
here's a fun question. Any common mistakes you see people making.
They're rushing to get their work wardrobe together or to
update it, and you know they do some things wrong.
Maybe they're investing in the wrong types of things. Maybe
(28:26):
they are buying too much too soon, Maybe they are
just sort of changing themselves. I don't know, what do
you see in terms of some of the most common mistakes.
Speaker 3 (28:34):
To me, the most common mistake that really goes across
all societal income, every group really comes down to fit.
Because there are those that walk out of the house
and because they can't see the back of themselves, don't
(28:55):
realize that those pants really are unattractive if you look
at the back of you, and they might be fine
in the front, but in the back. Probably one of
the most common in America right now is the whole
midriff area, whether it's for men or women, that somehow
(29:17):
we think everything's a headshot, everything's you know, above the shoulders,
but the in between between your waist and your you know,
above your midsection, we tend to put on weight there,
particularly past a certain age, and for those who don't
understand that that means you need more material. I think
(29:41):
it's a little embarrassing. You know, I don't really want
to see your belly button coming over the bottom of
your pants. Yeah, I mean at your waist. Those most
embarrassing things are to me fit because very honestly, I
have a very broad tolerance for different decisions in design
(30:04):
and color, but I don't infit because that's taking the
time to know your body, to figure out what work
needs to be done on the item before you walk
out wearing it.
Speaker 2 (30:16):
And to be fair, this is I think what you're
saying is not overweight. People should not show their bodies.
It's not that if people are wanting this is more
the unintentional of they're not meaning to. Their outfit just
does not actually contain them properly, and they're probably not
even comfortable.
Speaker 3 (30:32):
So that's right. Yeah, that's a huge point. How could
that be comfortable? I must say that being a manager,
it was really we were very strict about how someone
was going to be dressed in the store, and particularly
in the area of men's suit or men's suits department
(30:53):
and the outerwear department where tailoring was so important, and
it was something to teach people who who weren't used to,
who were really used to wearing stretches to come in
and put a wardrobe together with suits and ties and
et cetera. Not so much ties anymore, but at least
(31:13):
that notch collar.
Speaker 2 (31:16):
And it is very true that when you see someone
in clothing that just fits them very very well. No
matter what the body type, it looks better and that
does sometimes require tailoring. As a short person, like a
lot of times for me, I can't just buy something
and expect it'll look sort of silly. And it's annoying
to have that extra expense. But I see how it
makes sense.
Speaker 3 (31:36):
It is. I always resent it, and as I told you,
I need to do it all the time whenever I
buy something. So but it really makes a difference.
Speaker 2 (31:46):
Awesome. Well, this has been so fun. I feel like
a more educated consumer after this conversation. And I had
promised that we were going to share a love of
the week this week, like we do every week, and
I'll go first to give you time to get your
thoughts together. Okay, but my love of the week is
that you know, when you go on a trip and
you want to have a souvenir and you want to
(32:07):
get something, but like you don't want something that is
going to just clutter up your house and be ultimately garbage.
We have decided that the perfect souvenir for our household
on most trips is a mug, because you know, mugs
do ultimately not last forever, forever, And I wouldn't say
I want to buy one on every single trip because
then they might accumulate. But buying a nice mug and
(32:28):
then being like, oh, my morning coffee and a reminder
of like New Hampshire where we just went, it's just
so fun and it's actually useful. So I am into
the nice souvenir mug. That's my love of the week.
Speaker 3 (32:41):
I don't want to be a copycat, but you do
make me think that I just came back from a
trip and I hadn't been away for a really long time,
like a year, and I because I was finishing up
the book and all that. But I went to Santa
Fe for the first time and there were ow much
beautiful pottery, and yes, I did buy a mug, but
(33:05):
also I saw something I had never seen before that
was done by one of the native tribes who was
the longest lived Adobe community, and they were showing their
wares outside their Adobe homes, and we took a day
to visit and I fell in love with this piece
(33:28):
of pottery that had to be shipped because it was
too big for me to carry it. And it was
called the Friendship Bowl, and it had small people on
the top of the opening of the bowl and they
were holding hands. So there was a circle of these
little tiny clay creatures that were all holding hands around
(33:51):
the bowl. And it just came. It just arrived on Friday,
and I opened it and I loved it. And when
I was looking at it, similar to what you did,
said and was told that if you buy something like this,
you will have a story always about your visits to
Santa Fe. And that's a good way to buy souvenirs,
(34:12):
something that gives you a story to.
Speaker 2 (34:14):
Tell and that makes you happy every time you look
at it, which it sounds like this definitely does. And
I'm so glad it made the trip because it sounds
incredibly delicate, so like it really was.
Speaker 3 (34:24):
I was nervous taking the bubble wrap off.
Speaker 2 (34:27):
Like please, every person has to be intact. Yes, that's awesome,
because tell our listeners where they can find you, and
remind us one more time about your book.
Speaker 3 (34:36):
So right now on Amazon leading with respect, it Ventures
of an Off Price Fashion Pioneer by me Marcy Simms
can be ordered. I think the drop date is August
twenty six, So anyone who's listening please pre order because
(34:58):
it really makes a difference, they tell me.
Speaker 2 (35:00):
And it sounds like it will be a very fun read,
hopefully lots of like cool history, but also learning. Oh yes,
I want to learn more now.
Speaker 3 (35:08):
Yes, it's all about sharing experience and wisdom.
Speaker 2 (35:13):
Awesome, Thank you so much for coming on, Marci.
Speaker 3 (35:15):
Thank you. It was fun.
Speaker 1 (35:18):
Well, that was great learning about how style and clothing
can be a form of self care and self respect,
matching how awesome we are on the inside to how
we look on the outside. So this question comes from
a listener who says, your podcast seems to be geared
toward higher earning couples, and I am a few years
away from joining your target audience. My husband is already
(35:40):
in that bucket. He's a physician and has been for
several years now, but this particular listener is still twoish
years out from finishing her PhD. Until then, I make
a fairly meager stipend after graduation. It might take me
a few years to sort of work up to what
i'd consider a robust salary. She says, you've both had
life stages with lower incomes and to set your sites
(36:00):
on multiple kids. What advice would you give to me
for context? They have a two and a half year
old and a baby. They're hoping to have at least
a third kid in a couple of years. So Sarah,
what would you say.
Speaker 2 (36:11):
Well, the five people probably won't like this, but when
we were both residents or we were actually fellows by
the point that we were having Annabelle, we just didn't
save anything, and in fact, we kind of like dipped
into the savings that we had in order to pay
for daycare and get the highest quality care we could get,
and we knew that was going to be very expensive,
but we also knew it was going to be temporary.
(36:33):
So I do think there's like the mindset that certain
years are just like investment years in your future. You're
investing money and raising your child, well, you're investing money
in your future career, and your particular circumstance sounds less
extreme than ours, because hey, you already have one partner
who's earning well, so you may not even need to
go into debt. It just may mean being a little
(36:53):
bit more I don't know, like treading water for a
few years rather than putting lots away. But I definitely
want you to make sure you're not thinking, oh, well,
I'm not earning, so somehow the child cares all my
responsibility and how can we be spending on that, because
I mean, you have to look at this as like
one big picture. These are your kids together and in
(37:16):
the end, you earning is going to also benefit the
whole family. So I actually don't even know how much
mental gymnastics you need to just say, make sure you
use his salary to make things work as well as
possible when the kids are little, especially if it sounds
like you want multiple young kids back to back.
Speaker 1 (37:33):
Yeah. Absolutely, I mean there's no magic time to have kids,
so I wouldn't worry about that. You can have the
kid whenever you have your third, when you wish to
have your third, have a fourth when you wish to
have your fourth. But if your husband is currently earning
a good living, then use that to purchase the support
you need to launch your career. And over time, I
(37:54):
guess is that you will make a good salary too,
and so it will have been a wise financial move
for you to stay and finish this degree and get
your big job later on. And I agree with Sarah
like compounding is awesome. I love the idea of putting
small amounts away over time, and the you know, the
longer you're in, the better. But the thing is, like
(38:17):
when we're putting small amounts in, you have to understand
that even at a sort of robust rate of return,
like the doubling, time is a couple of years here, right,
Like if you're getting nine percent interest, which is high.
Speaker 2 (38:30):
The BA is this the investment podcast, so you can
tell total time is eight years?
Speaker 1 (38:34):
Okay, there's the rule of seventy two. So the money
you put in now, if you put in at nine
percent interest, will double in eight years. Now, if it's
going to be absolutely painful for you to save x
amount now and it would be far less painful for
you to save two x eight years from now, don't
worry about it. But don't worry about it, right, Like
(38:54):
if you know, as Sarah and Josh knew that they
were going to be working as physicians in a couple
of years and they would both be earning good salaries
that they would be able to save more, then like,
figure you will two x or three x what you
could save now when it would be painful to save
versus in eight years when it will be far less
painful to save now. Obviously you have to do that.
You have to trust that your future self will be
(39:15):
willing to save the money to catch up from this time.
But if you believe that is the case, and it
sounds like by that time you will be earning a
lot of money and your kids will be in school,
so your childcare bills will probably fall, then that's fine.
It's okay to look at this all over a longer
period of time.
Speaker 2 (39:32):
Yeah, and math wise, I mean, assuming that you are
putting this money into your career and you do end
up with a higher earning salary, I can't imagine the
math not working out in your favor. Yeah, you know,
even if whatever you're saving doubles. I mean, if it's
at the expense of you getting and enjoying life, earning
more later down the line, I don't I don't think
it would work out.
Speaker 1 (39:53):
Yeah, it's almost you. Yeah, enjoy life. That's our takeaway
from this listener question. All right, So this episode, Sarah
has been interviewing Marcia Simms about clothing and style as
a form of self care and self respect. We will
be back next week with more on making work and
life fit together.
Speaker 2 (40:15):
Thanks for listening. You can find me Sarah at the
shoebox dot com or at the Underscore Shoebox on Instagram,
and you.
Speaker 1 (40:23):
Can find me Laura at Laura vandercam dot com. This
has been the best of both worlds podcasts. Please join
us next time for more on making work and life
work together.
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