May 6, 2025 • 42 mins
In today’s episode, Sarah interviews Dr. Tiffany Moon, anesthesiologist and reality TV start (Real Housewives of Dallas)! They chat about Tiffany’s unique life and career journey, Tiffany’s hybrid career, handling negativity as a public figure, and weaponized professionalism.
Dr. Tiffany Moon’s new book, Joy Prescriptions: How I Learned to Stop Chasing Perfection and Embrace Connection is out today wherever books are sold.
Find more at joyprescriptions.com or @tiffanymoonmd on social media.
In the Q&A, a listener asks for date ideas (both home and out!) that aren’t dinner and a movie.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
Hi.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
I'm Laura Vanderkamp. I'm a mother of five, an author, journalist,
and speaker.
Speaker 3 (00:15):
And I'm Sarah Hart Hunger, a mother of three, practicing physician, writer,
and courtse creator. We are two working parents who love
our careers and our families.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Welcome to best of both worlds. Here we talk about
how real women manage work, family, and time for fun.
From figuring out childcare to mapping out long.
Speaker 1 (00:33):
Term career goals.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
We want you to get the most out of life.
Speaker 1 (00:41):
Welcome to best of both worlds. This is Laura.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
This episode is airing in early May of twenty twenty five.
Sarah is going to be interviewing Tiffany Moon, who some
people may know from her appearances on the Real Housewives
of Dallas. However, she also has a career as a physician,
done a lot of other interesting, fascinating things that she
(01:03):
writes about in her new memoir, Joy Prescriptions. So we're
very excited to talk to Tiffany. But Sarah, you were
not a regular Real Housewives of Dallas viewer prior to this.
Speaker 1 (01:16):
Correct.
Speaker 3 (01:17):
No, I really haven't spent much time watching Real Housewives
in general, and so I didn't necessarily know what to
expect I knew that she would probably be super glamorous,
but when I read her memoir, actually, like, I was
really drawn in by just how interesting her entire life
story and the trajectory and how The Real Housewives was
(01:37):
like one piece of her history. But definitely, once I
was finished, I was like, well, that does not define
Tiffany Moon. So yeah, some people are probably coming at
this from like knowing her from the show, and I
can't came at it from a different angle, but I
kind of think her story is probably fascinating from either.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
Yeah, what I should say, It was funny you guys
were having such a challenging time coming up with the
time to make the interview work because you are both
still seeing patients.
Speaker 1 (02:00):
I mean she sees patients a couple of days a week.
Speaker 3 (02:02):
Correct, Well, they're actually the opposite days, so her like, oh,
our days are my like podcasting days, and vice versa.
So it actually turned out that the day that our
family left on a spring break trip, I had taken
off and was like a Thursday, which is not a
day like usually I'm clinically, So it was like, woo,
the stars aligned. I think we moved it like three
(02:22):
times and it worked out, and it was my fault
that we were moving it like not the Real Housewife.
Speaker 2 (02:27):
Like, yeah, well I should tell people Sarah's so conscientious
that we got when I got the text that Sarah
was like in the hospital with her cardiac event, She's
also like R and I can't dinner view Tiffany because
I'm here, and I'm like, huh, okay, well they'll probably understand.
Speaker 1 (02:43):
They did.
Speaker 3 (02:43):
They were so nice, like they really were the whole team.
Speaker 1 (02:47):
So are you much?
Speaker 2 (02:48):
I mean you don't really watch You've watched some reality TV,
haven't you read that?
Speaker 3 (02:51):
Fun to do a little rundown of like some of
our favorite reality shows over the years, So Dance Moms
with Annabelle mostly, But yeah, is it cake is one
that my kids enjoy?
Speaker 1 (03:03):
Is it cake? I don't even know what this is.
Speaker 3 (03:06):
Oh, they make a cake or maybe it's not a cake,
and you have to guess if it's cake or not
because some of these things look so life like. And
then they get a knife and like if it cuts
and opens in the cake, then it was cake.
Speaker 1 (03:18):
Laura, You've got to check this out or feel like
you would do all right? Somehow I have my kids
like is it cake cultural phenomenon.
Speaker 3 (03:24):
Really really old shows that I really loved were The
Glee Project, which was a spin off of the show Glee,
but they were like trying to find the next cast member,
so it was like a performance reality show. I did
watch The Real World for a few seasons, like twenty
years ago, American Idol of course, and then a sleeper
hit in my family has been Shark t Ooh okay, yeah,
(03:46):
like we'll watch that weirdly at like hotels.
Speaker 1 (03:48):
Yeah yeah, well, you know, it comes on. It's interesting.
I'm sure.
Speaker 3 (03:52):
Yeah, sure, it's like always on and everyone likes it,
like all five of us, so great.
Speaker 1 (03:57):
It works about you, it works not that many.
Speaker 2 (03:59):
I mean I did watch the season finale of the
first season of Survivors, so I had that Richard Hatch
cultural point there, that cultural reference point.
Speaker 1 (04:08):
I haven't really watched it since.
Speaker 2 (04:10):
I do like remodeling and renovation shows, which I don't
know if that counts as reality TV, but they are
real he does.
Speaker 1 (04:17):
Usually you get their hunting for houses or something. I
don't know.
Speaker 2 (04:21):
I like the design and renovation stuff and seeing what
people are able to do with the space and like
what can be in vision and often people are able
to stay in their homes that they thought they couldn't
stay in their homes.
Speaker 1 (04:34):
It's just it needed to be renovated, and once.
Speaker 2 (04:35):
It was, it's like they don't actually want to sell it,
which is amazing.
Speaker 1 (04:40):
I always love seeing that.
Speaker 2 (04:42):
But we're excited to hear what Tiffany has to say,
so let's move to the interview.
Speaker 3 (04:49):
Well, I am so excited to welcome doctor Tiffany Moon
to the show. This is such an honor to have her.
I think she and her story are going to resonate
so much with our listeners. She is definitely the first
TV reality star we have had on the show. So
with that, welcome, doctor Tiffany Moon.
Speaker 4 (05:06):
Hi, thank you for having me.
Speaker 3 (05:09):
So can you share. Let's just start from the beginning.
And I actually really enjoyed reading your origin story. And
I don't know that you need to get into all
of that now, although we may revisit some of it,
but give our listeners if they are not familiar with
your TV career or your kind of hybrid creative and
professional career, give us the story in like the three
(05:30):
minute version.
Speaker 4 (05:31):
Okay, So I immigrated to the United States when I
was six years old from China. I didn't speak a
word of English. I had to go to ESL. I
was a super huge nerd my entire life. We moved
very frequently, and so it was hard for me to
make friends, and so I found a lot of solace
(05:53):
in reading and doing schoolwork. I ended up graduating from
high school at the age of fifteen, going to college,
moved out of my parents' house, lived in a dorm.
So I graduated from college when I was nineteen, went
straight into medical school, graduated from medical school when I
was twenty three, got married a few years later, and
(06:16):
then by the time I turned thirty, I had two
kids because I had twins. And then somewhere like in
my mid thirties, about seven years into being a full
time academic antithesiologist, I sort of had this like is
this all there is? Moment? Not that I was ungrateful
(06:37):
or that anything was wrong, but I just felt like
I had worked so hard my entire life to get
to this place that was supposed to be the summit
of this great mountain I had been climbing for all
my life, and it just wasn't all that I lacked laughter,
I lacked creativity, I lacked connection, and I just felt
(07:00):
like I went to the operating room at six thirty
every day, got off sometime between four to five pm,
missed all the mommy and me things that my kids preschool.
Sometimes I would have a sick child at home and
my nanny was taking care of my sick child while
I went to the operating room to take care of
(07:21):
my patients, and I just felt torn all the time.
So I decided to go part time at work, which
then opened up a lot of new opportunities for me,
such as going on the Real Housewives of Dallas, trying
my hand at stand up comedy, becoming a social media influencer,
(07:43):
and then writing my book. My husband jokes that I
went part time with my anesthesia job, but then I
just picked up like three new jobs.
Speaker 3 (07:52):
So that's kind of where I am now, which is amazing,
and listeners to this podcast can appreciate that I have
a far less glass version of that in my own life.
Talk a little bit about your decision to go part time,
because the way you just described it is not quite
the order you talked about it in your book. You
really really struggled with that, Yeah, Can you share how
(08:16):
that played out?
Speaker 4 (08:17):
Yes. In my department at work, I had seen a
couple of women go part time before, either because they
wanted to be more present with their families, and sometimes
it was because they got sick and they needed to
have time off to go to their appointments and stuff.
And the unsaid thing at my work was that if
(08:39):
you go part time, you sort of fall off the
rising star trajectory in terms of having leadership positions, committee roles, teaching, mentoring,
that kind of stuff. And they would call it going
on the quote unquote mommy trap, like that was what
going part time was. And I had worked so hard
(09:03):
my entire life. I went into the best anesthesia program
in the country. I graduated at the top of my
medical school class. I was running multiple clinical trials and
writing manuscripts. I mean I was breastfeeding one of my
twins and literally typing a manuscript with the other hand
on a laptop like it was wild. I had that
Bobby Pillow thing, and I was so scared that if
(09:28):
I went part time, I would fall off that growth
curve and drop down. And I just didn't want to
sacrifice all the hard work that I had spent to
get there, only to then be relegated to the mommy track,
and so I was like full force ahead. And I
also wanted to do everything for my twin girls. So
(09:52):
if I wasn't at the hospital, I was at home
trying to make them homemade food, take them to mommy
and me like jimboree and swim classes and music and
all that stuff. And I quite frankly burned myself out
because I was trying to be everything for everyone all
(10:13):
at once.
Speaker 3 (10:14):
And I think now that i've I mean, this can
be common, but your story is even more nuanced, because
I think it's very interesting how much you even though
you had a good amount of financial security, although obviously
that can always change, but you could have gone part
time earlier. You had an influencer career that was probably
(10:34):
growing at that time already, and yet you stopped yourself.
I wonder, and this is kind of in the book.
I'm like reading between the lines, but you can tell
me with some of that more like answering to your
family's expectations or sort of like your concept of what
being good kind of meant and how did you reckon
with that?
Speaker 4 (10:54):
It was both You're right that none of this was
about money. I mean I don't want to sound inconsiderate,
but like I didn't need to work right and certainly
not work that hard and be full time running clinical trials,
taking overnight trauma call and liver transplant call like I
was doing like way more. I think this is the
(11:17):
crux of it that I've come to, this realization after
lots of therapy, is that growing up as a child,
the only time that I ever felt worthy was when
I was doing something and helping other people and or
making money. So I think a lot of this comes
from my family upbringing. My parents were very strict, typical
(11:43):
Asian immigrant parents, you know, like a ninety six was
not good enough. They would ask me like, oh, why
did you get a ninety six, Like you missed a problem.
Let me see that, Like how could you miss that?
That's such an easy problem, you know, that kind of thing.
And so even as a young adult, even now in
my forties, I still struggle with my worth and I
(12:05):
keep taking on more tasks in order to prove how
strong and capable I am. And here I wrote an
entire book about finding joy. But I still have moments
where there's this little nagging voice in the back of
my head that tells me if I don't continue to
(12:29):
achieve and do things, that I won't be seen as worthy.
And I have to remind myself all the time. It's
not like I just figured it out and I'm healed. Now.
Speaker 3 (12:41):
That's interesting that you still consider it like a work
in progress. Yeah, is it something you talk about like, well,
you've mentioned therapy and then I guess like with family
members and your husband.
Speaker 4 (12:52):
And yes, I think therapy has been so helpful because
I had so many complicated feelings about my childhood that
I kind of swept under the rug. In my family,
we didn't talk about feelings or problems, Like even when
my parents were fighting, they would just not speak to
each other for days at a time. And I saw
this as a child. It was very weird. So I
(13:17):
credit a lot of my personal growth the last five
to ten years to therapy. Also working with an executive coach.
I used to make fun of women who had coaches
because I'd be like, what are they coaching you for?
Like you don't know how to be an adult? But
like I've now swung the other way, and I tell
everybody that they need a coach, no matter what line
(13:40):
of work. You're in. And I think the third thing
probably was learning to set healthy boundaries, because I grew
up in a home where there were no boundaries, and
I grew up wanting to be perfect and people please
and always do more. And when I learned to set
healthy boundaries and enforce them, I really feel like that
(14:04):
changed my life.
Speaker 3 (14:05):
I love that We're going to take a quick break
and we'll be back talking a little bit more about
some of the lessons that you share in your book.
All right, we are back, And one of the chapters
(14:27):
that I really enjoyed was you talking about your college
experience and then your med school experience. Maybe I enjoyed
those because I followed somewhat of a similar path, although
I did not do my college in two years the
way you did. But then you came to a conclusion
that I think you regretted some of the way you
approached college. And talk a little bit about the concept
(14:49):
of enjoying the process. Can you share how that played
out and maybe some of the ways in which you
feel like you're better able to enjoy the process today
or what that might look like.
Speaker 4 (14:58):
Yes, So I always thought that there was a finish
line and the faster I got to the finish line
than I would win, but life is not a race.
And because I went to college so early, like I
never went to senior prom, I never had like that
(15:21):
first crush experience, like I was basically in high school
and then I moved out of my parents' house to
go to the dorm and had to grow up very
quickly with it in like a several months. And then
I went to Cornell after my program in Texas, and
I was just studying all the time. I was taking
like seventeen to nineteen credits a semester. I was taking
(15:45):
organic chemistry and physics and studying for the MCAT at
the same time. Because god forbid I take a gap
year between undergrad and medical school, Like no, I needed
to go straight through. And that was just too much
of a course load for someone, you know, So I
missed out on a lot of those rich college experiences
(16:08):
that other people talk about because I was just straight
up going to class and study like that was all
college was for me. I went to Cornell a total
of four semesters, no summer school, no whatever, and basically
just packed it all in. But because there was so
much emphasis on like academic achievement and finishing early. I
(16:32):
didn't get to study abroad. I don't really have besties
from college because you need to spend time with people
in order to nurture those deep friendships, and I just wasn't.
I was like in the library studying all the time.
And when I graduated, I was nineteen. So I tell
people how I look at my life, my medical school
(16:54):
was my college because when I was in medical school,
I was nineteen to twenty three years old. That's more
college age. And I'm telling you, like, those four years
were probably the most fun years of my life, which
when I tell normal people that, they're like, oh my god,
this girl's such a dork, like she loved medical school
(17:15):
so much. But my two best friends from this very
day until this very day were my tank mates from
Cadaver Lab, Lisa and Michelle. And so I think I
replaced my college experience with my medical school experience. But
I do wish that I could have just slowed down
a little bit and enjoyed and stopped to smell the roses,
(17:39):
because I was just a one track horse with blinders
on focus at the finish line. And then the sad
thing is you think it's going to be like confetti
and streamers at the finish line. And you get there
and it's kind of like meh, like, what's the next thing? Oh,
I guess we'll start med school. Now, you know, what's
the next thing? I need to do residency fellowship. Then
(18:02):
I got to get a prestigious academic job. Like the
finish line always moves, there's always another target. And so
what I tell people now is like the joy is
in the journey and not in the destination.
Speaker 3 (18:16):
And that that's true now, right, Like, cause I'm sure
as you were doing Real Housewives it was like, okay, this, well,
it didn't sound like you loved every minute of that,
but you enjoy it.
Speaker 4 (18:25):
There was not a whole lot of joy in Housewives.
There was a lot of drama, a lot of fighting,
a lot of stupidity, but like joy not so much.
Speaker 3 (18:36):
And then not, well, that process might have been more
tough to enjoy. But I guess even with something like that,
which for some people might have been like the pinnacle
of what they were aiming for, not necessarily you, but
for some people they're still what's next? Now it's the book? Okay,
the book's done. Now, what's next, and even with less
glamorous things in their lives. I think a lot of
our listeners can relate to that. How do you go
(18:58):
about like enjoying your now as it is every day,
mundane day to mundane day.
Speaker 4 (19:04):
Yes, So okay, these are like the three pillars that
I try to focus on. It's connection, gratitude, and laughter,
And that's what I have in the book as well,
like each of the chapters that ends with the joy prescription.
So connection is so important to me because I used
to feel like I live life like on the very
surface of the water, but never going deep enough to
(19:27):
make those actual connections. It's you know, like passing by colleague, surgeons,
nurses in the army like oh, hey, how is your weekend?
Like where'd y'all go for spring break? It was just
all very like surface level, and I was like, I'm
not going to do that anymore. I'm going to like
choose some people to interact with in a more deep
and meaningful manner, you know, like we would have a
(19:47):
new faculty on board, and after they settled in a
little bit, I'd be like, hey, next time you're in
between surgeries or whatever, like let me buy you a
coffee and let's go sit and talk, and I'd be like,
where are you from? Why did you come to Dallas?
Why did you pick this job? And just get to
know people a little bit better, Like I really feel
like for many years I didn't have rich, deep connections.
(20:12):
The second thing is gratitude, because I think we're all
so busy and the world is a crazy place, and
sometimes I would catch myself like just being complaining or
woe is me? Things aren't going the way I wanted. Oh,
I was supposed to go home at three pm, but
they just put an ad on case in my room
and I'd be all cranky about it. And I started
(20:33):
like doing a lot of mindset work. I read so
many self help books, listen to all the podcasts, and
I started telling my brain that when things happen, that
I get to do something, not I have to do something,
you know, like when my alarm goes off at five
and I'm supposed to go to the gym before I
(20:53):
go to ther I'm like ugh. But then I just
tell myself like, Nope, it's a privilege, Like I get
to go to the jim you know, my body is able,
and I'm working on not having sarcipedia when I'm older
in osteoporosis, so I'm doing like weight bearing exercise, and yeah,
it's a pain in the ass, it really is, especially
at five point thirty in the morning. But like, I
(21:15):
think it's a privilege, not a punishment. And I was
listening to a podcast about a year ago and the
woman on there said some people would take your problems
and call them blessings, and I was like, oh, like,
(21:35):
you're right, Like I've come so far, and sometimes I
just catch myself complaining about the stupidest things. But then
when I think about that line, it kind of like
humbles and grounds me. And then the last thing is laughter.
My twin girls are ten now, so they're not as
goofy as they were when they were like three, four
(21:56):
or five, and I could do silly things, but sometimes
before get to laugh, or we just take ourselves so seriously,
And anesthesia's not exactly like a fun funny specialty. I
have like really sick people on the table, and so
now I try to like intentionally cultivate laughter, whether that's
(22:16):
like watching a one hour Netflix special, doing something silly
with my kids, running around like just trying to find
the funny in life's situations versus being like pissed off
and annoyed.
Speaker 3 (22:30):
So it's a really interesting reframe. I'm like picturing you
and the well, there could be things to make fun
of in the oar. I could see my war.
Speaker 4 (22:36):
It's pretty serious. The laughter part actually doesn't really go
in the or. You know, some of the surgeons they
don't like my jokes, or the patients they're like, are
you gonna put me to sleep? And I'm like, uh huh,
maybe I'll even wake you up and they're like they're
like that, No, we leave the jokes outside the.
Speaker 3 (22:55):
Or oh my gosh. Well, we're going to take another
break and then we're going to talk about something I
loved that you brought up, which is weaponized professionalism. All right,
we will be right back. All right, we are back.
(23:20):
And I was so fascinated by you talking about how
you know, if I met you at work, I would
be like, that is the coolest thing ever. She is
like doing it all. She's so fashionable, she's so cool,
Like let me follow her around, let me try to
get surgery. So anyway, I would be very excited to
work with you, and like in awe of all you've accomplished,
but then you've noted that in some spheres, doing things
(23:45):
that might be seen as more feminine, maybe maybe more superficial,
are sort of like used against you. And I think
the phrase from your book was weaponized professionalism, and I
was like, ooh, and I do feel like this is
something that disproportionately impacts I'm in. It might even disproportionally
impact people of color, different ethnicities, And I'd love to
(24:06):
know kind of what you've seen with this and then
how you have learned to handle it.
Speaker 4 (24:11):
Yeah, I've dealt with a lot of that. I think whenever,
as a female professional, someone else doesn't like something you're doing,
they weaponize the word professionalism against you. Oh, that's unprofessional.
So several years ago, like twenty twenty, actually, COVID Times
(24:31):
is when I really started being more active on social media.
Before that, I would just like look at other people's
social media and maybe like some stuff, but I never
posted anything on my page. And then in twenty twenty,
because of the pandemic and all the elective surgeries at
work had been canceled, we were only doing like cancer
and trauma surgeries. I had more time on my hands,
(24:54):
and so I started posting just really as a way
to relieve my boredom and try to engage with a
their human beings. And I got called into my supervisor's
office at the hospital and I was told that some
of my social media content was unprofessional. That was the
(25:14):
word they used. I remember it very clearly. My male
supervisor said, stop by my office when you get a chance.
I'm like, ret row. So I go and I'm like, hi, sir,
you wanted to talk to me and he's like, yeah,
have a seat. So there's been some concern from some
of our colleagues that some of your recent social media
(25:37):
posts aren't professional. And I was like, okay, do you
care to elaborate? He was very vague. He wouldn't tell
me which post who brought. I was like, is someone concerned?
Like have I offended someone? And he was like, well,
you know, it's just not a good look because were
(26:01):
supposed to be, you know, professionals, and people look up
to us. And I'm like, okay, I'm dancing. I'm posting
about skincare, beauty fashion. I had made this thing called
quarantine fashion, and I pretended like the hallway of my
house was a runway and then we made different outfits
using like trash bags, toilet paper, like weird stuff, and
(26:23):
it was a quarantine fashion show. Like it was all
in good fun. It was all filmed during off time.
It's not like I was engaging in dangerous or legal
activities or whatever. And I just sat there in his
office like absolutely flabbergasted that one people were watching me
enough to care and then two like screenshotting it and
(26:48):
sending it to him. Because I was like kind of upset,
and I was like, look, unless you have a specific
thing that I did, like giving me this blanket, your
social media is unprofessional, like doesn't help me. Like I
don't know what should I just stop posting altogether? And
I was like, also, who told you this? Because he
was like, oh, well, I'm not even on social media,
(27:11):
so I don't really understand what's going on. And I
was like, well, did you actually see any of the posts?
And he said, well, some people screenshoted some stuff and
texted it to me, and I was like, you know what,
these people need something better to do. Obviously they're following
and watching me, you know, and then they don't like
something I'm doing and then they like report it under
(27:31):
the guise of like, I'm concerned this may reflect poorly
on our department, and I was like, get out of here.
Like people like that, I can't stand them.
Speaker 3 (27:42):
There's something a little sinister about specifically, I don't know,
targeting like more feminine, you know, because if it was
a guy like picturing showing his like monster truck hobby
and his fishing, like I just don't think the conversation,
like no one would have minded right, Like.
Speaker 4 (27:58):
No guys are doing like that. You're chugging thing with
the hose or whatever, and like having a con it's
like a frat party, you know what I mean, and
everybody thinks it's funny. But then like I model a
dress made out of toilet paper and that's unprofessional, you
know what I mean. It's a double standard for sure.
Speaker 3 (28:18):
But ultimately you you must have worked it out. So
did you tell them that, like, hey, let's pretend this
was some other topic, Like what specifically do you have
an issue with? Like how were you able to resolve things?
Speaker 4 (28:32):
I don't know that I resolved them. I basically said,
unless you have more specific and constructive feedback for me,
I don't know what more else I can do. And
that was basically it, and I thought, Okay, there's a
fork in the road here. I can either play small
and tone down my social media because apparently I've made
(28:56):
some people uncomfortable with it. But also I'm like, stop watching,
Like if you don't like my content, you know, there's
this whole button that says like block or unfollow or something,
you know, like why keep watching my content? But then
like report it to get me in trouble. That's so lame.
And the other side of the fork of the road
(29:17):
was like, hey, how about I just keep being myself
and posting the things that I like and this is
my life and I will not shrink or dim my
light because it's a little too bright for you. And
I went with that. I was like, I'm not going
to play small. So in many ways, I kept doing
(29:38):
what I was doing, and in many ways I doubled
down and made even more content because I was like,
I don't know it kind of like whenever people challenge me,
I'm like, watch this. So I made even more content.
I started getting brand partnerships, my follower count started going
up and up. I was like getting invited to go
(30:00):
to dinners at new restaurants, that were opening in town
just because they wanted some people to go and post
about it. And I was like, this is kind of
a cool side gig, Like I'm so glad that I
didn't decide to play small when all these losers were
complaining about me, because now look at all these opportunities
that I have.
Speaker 3 (30:18):
I think it's awesome. You said a boundary and then
you went for it, and you're like, if you have
feedback for my anesthesia performance, please let me know. I
would love to hear about that.
Speaker 4 (30:27):
Yes, the funniest thing that ever happened was it was
actually a woman. It's funny. There's like man on women badness,
and then there's like women on women badness. One of
my female physician colleagues screenshotted something that I posted, and
I guess she meant to send it to someone else,
(30:49):
but she sent it to me, talking crap about me
like it yeah, oops, right, Like this was like before
the days of like I think you can unsend an
I message Now I don't really know how that works,
but I screenshoted it anyway, and I have it like
forever in my camera role. And then she tried to backtrack.
(31:09):
She was like oh, I didn't mean, and I was like,
you can't. You cannot backtrack from that. So I became
very acutely aware that there were people in my department
like actively trying to take me down. And that was
a crappy feeling. But I have screenshots so if this
ever goes anywhere, like, I have a whole folder of
(31:29):
receipts on stuff like this.
Speaker 3 (31:33):
Oh my goodness, And you shared the acronym haters having
anger towards everybody reaching success. Hadn't heard that before?
Speaker 4 (31:40):
Yes, I didn't come up with that. I borrowed it
from a podcast or something else that I read. But
that's how I think of haters. I do social media
coaching for female physicians and other business leaders. I basically
audit their social media page and look at what's working,
what's not, give them content, ideas and just strategies to
(32:03):
elevate their brand presence on social media. And often it
comes up with my clients that when they post and stuff,
there's always some haters in the comments, and so this
is when I use that, and I'm like, haters stands
for having ancher towards everyone reaching success, because anytime you
kind of like come out of your lane a little
(32:25):
bit and put yourself out there. There's going to be negativity. Like,
that's how human nature works. So the way I explain
it is like, say you play small, you go to work,
you go to church, your kids have some parents that
are your friends. So you have like one hundred people
in your sphere of influence, right, and like five or
(32:47):
ten of them you just don't care for. You don't
get along, You generally try to avoid each other. The
problem is when you start putting yourself out there, especially
on social media, and now your sphere of influence grows
from let's say one hundred to a thousand or ten
thousand people now fifty to one hundred or five hundred
(33:09):
to one thousand people don't care for you. It's the
same exact proportion, but it's much more people. And we
as humans always have a negativity bias, right, And so
a lot of my clients, once they start getting the
hater comments, I'm like, that's.
Speaker 1 (33:26):
Great, babe.
Speaker 4 (33:28):
That means you're doing something, that means you're growing. And
they're like, doesn't feel great, and I'm like, no, trust me, Like,
if you have haters, that means you are doing something right.
It means you're putting yourself out there and not everyone
agrees with everything. You don't agree with everything you hear,
you don't like everybody that comes across your feet, and
(33:48):
it's fine. So my goal, I tell my clients, I'm like,
your goal is to get more haters, because that means
you're growing. I mean, it's kind of a joke, but
I want to normalize the fact that there will always
be naysayers and we should not let that detract us
from following our passion and continuing to put ourselves out there.
(34:10):
If I had let all that stuff at work happen,
I would have like not kept posting on social media.
And now that's like one of my actual jobs and
it's so fun and it gives me way more flexibility
than working in the operating room, and it allows me
to flex my creativity and laughter, which there's not much
(34:34):
creativity or laughter in the operating room. So it's really
enriched my life. And had I listened to the haters,
I wouldn't even be here. So the lesson to the
listeners here is like, do not listen to the haters.
Speaker 3 (34:46):
I love it, I love it, love it. I love
that you're still doing the hybrid. I love that you
are working full time in different ways while still enjoying
your time with your kids. This has been so much
fun and I absolutely recommend your bo especially because I
really feel like you share so much and it reads
like a juicy memoir, not like Self Help to Me,
(35:06):
which I thought like was a good thing. Before we
wrap up, I forgot to warn you, but we always
share one thing that we love on the show. Just
anything making you happy this week.
Speaker 4 (35:16):
Now.
Speaker 3 (35:16):
I remember your gratitude list from your book, which was
kind of funny. So you could do something like what
you put on there, or just anything. It could be
like the weather, it could be like a product, anything.
I'm going to start us off to give you time
to think, and I'm just going to share. My love
of the week is that I got to take my
thirteen year old shopping for her birthday. And I don't know,
(35:37):
I feel like that was one of those kind of
things you envision when your kids are little, like, oh,
my kid's gonna be a teen and we're gonna go
shopping together. There's gonna be fun. And it really really
was fun. We mostly got like ath leisure like Lulu
and Alo, and it was great. I had a wonderful time.
Speaker 4 (35:50):
So what is so sweet?
Speaker 3 (35:52):
So what is your love of the week.
Speaker 4 (35:53):
Okay, well we just got a new dog. He's right here,
let me see if oh, well your people can't see there.
Speaker 3 (36:01):
That's so exciting.
Speaker 4 (36:02):
We got a new dog. His name is Custom. He's
laying on the floor next to me right now. He's
such a sweet boy. He is a Belgian malinoaw. I
don't know if you know what that is. It's people
think he's a German Shepherd. They look similar, but it's
not exactly the same. But he's so sweet. I haven't
My other dog is like seven. And if Custom is new,
(36:25):
you forget. It's like having a child, Like how hard
it is in the beginning, you know, because he's like
chewing everything and having accidents and all this kind of stuff.
But I don't know, he's like my son. I love
him so much and I don't know what it is,
but like, I just love animals. I just have away
with animals. My friend calls me snow white because animals
(36:48):
just gravitate towards me. I'm like the dog whisper, not
so much with people, but but with dogs. Yes, So
my obsession right now is my new dog.
Speaker 3 (37:00):
I love it. So just remind our listeners the name
of your book and where they can find you.
Speaker 4 (37:06):
Yes, the name of my memoir is Joy Prescriptions. It's
available anywhere where books are sold, or on joyprescriptions dot com,
where before May sixth you can get over three hundred
dollars worth of pre order bonuses. And if you guys
want to follow me along on all my unprofessional antics,
(37:29):
I'm across all the social media platforms at Tiffany Moon MD.
Speaker 3 (37:34):
Amazing. Thank you so much for coming on, Tiffany.
Speaker 4 (37:36):
Thanks for having me. Sarah, Well we are back.
Speaker 1 (37:39):
That was great.
Speaker 2 (37:40):
Sarah interviewing Tiffany Moon, author of the brand new book
Joy Prescriptions. So our question this week comes from someone
who says her husband and she have agreed to do
more date nights, but seem to tire of the typical
dinner and we cannot stay up for a movie. Other ideas,
including even home dates, are welcome. So, Sarah, what are
you thinking would be fun in the offbeat date night category?
Speaker 4 (38:05):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (38:05):
So, I always feel like a low key sport can
be good, meaning like bowling, mini golf, something where there's
a little like competition to keep it spicy, and I
top golf is like a new thing. I mean that's
like a specific chain, but like that's sort of like
regular golf, but can be gamified, which would I think
be fun on a date. I think anything that could
be gamified, like even a museum, Like, okay, let's go
(38:28):
to a museum together and then decide if we can
each find like guess each other's favorites in a given room.
Or my other idea was night of hedonism where you
get massages and then go out for ice cream.
Speaker 1 (38:40):
Interesting and at home you had some ideas for at home? Yes,
at home.
Speaker 3 (38:45):
Someone told me about this, I think in a Patreon maybe.
But virtual wine tasting is a thing where you can
get a box sent to you and then like they
do a zoom and then you and your partner like
taste wines like in together, but like with a like
a Somelier leading.
Speaker 1 (39:00):
Interesting. This that's interesting. Huh yeah. Yeah, it's not like
how do you virtually drink wine? I'm not sure. No,
you drink the real drink the real wine. Okay, that's good.
That makes for a better date. Yeah, that's sounds fun.
Speaker 2 (39:12):
I think one idea is you know if it sounds
like people are tired at this could be a problem.
Like you've gotten through the work weekends, like Friday night
is date night, but then like everyone's so tired they
kind of want to go to bed. I wonder if
you could get out of the idea of night or
maybe like move your regular date time. Maybe for your family,
it would work better if you hired a sitter for
like four hours on Saturday afternoon, and you could go
(39:32):
out to lunch, or go to the gym together, or
go to an art museum, or go play top golf
for whatever, but at a time when you would have
a lot more energy. Or as we heard in our
Cheap It Hot episode a few weeks ago, you could
also hire that sitter to take your children out of
your house and then you could do whatever you want
(39:52):
in your house during that time on Saturday afternoons. I
would also just suggest pro sports is a a different thing.
If you've got any or minor league sports would work
in major league, minor league, whatever. If you are in
a reasonable size city, there might be something you can do.
It turns out places have a lot of different teams.
We've been doing the tour of Phillies Professional sports institutions,
(40:15):
and that's made for a couple of fun activities for us.
Speaker 3 (40:19):
And that's a great one because like you have entertainment
but on like a play or a movie, like, there's
plenty of time to talk to each other.
Speaker 1 (40:25):
So yeah, yeah, I like it.
Speaker 2 (40:26):
But you know it might be helpful just to brainstorm
ideas too, Like we could treat this as something of
a project for the two of you instead.
Speaker 1 (40:33):
Of because I think sometimes this gets to the well,
we have this center for Friday, like we have a
regular Friday setters that what are we supposed to do?
I don't know what do you want to do?
Speaker 2 (40:40):
So just some other time, like both of you, like
brainstorm a short list separately, and then you come together
and compare your lists and brainstorm together to add no
more to the list.
Speaker 3 (40:50):
This would be a fun date night activity.
Speaker 1 (40:52):
Well that's true. You could make that into a date
night activity as well. Let's play on our next date. Right,
we're not doing anything tonight, but here's what we might
do at our next time. We do this.
Speaker 3 (41:01):
Combine it with your virtual wine tasting.
Speaker 2 (41:03):
Yes, that's true, that could work as well, or just
forget the tasting, just pour a glass of wine it's
all good, yeah, and who knows what you might come
up with, but I think you know it's worth spending
some time and then you'll have a couple ideas for
there on Thurne Well, this has been best of both worlds.
Sarah has been interviewing Tiffany Moon, author of the book
Joy Prescriptions, also known for her appearances on Real Housewives
(41:25):
of Dallas. We will be back next week with more
on making work and life fit together.
Speaker 3 (41:31):
Thanks for listening. You can find me Sarah at the
shoebox dot com or at the Underscore Shoebox on Instagram,
and you.
Speaker 2 (41:39):
Can find me Laura at Laura vandercam dot com.
Speaker 1 (41:43):
This has been the best of both worlds podcasts.
Speaker 2 (41:46):
Please join us next time for more on making work
and life work together.
Hi.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
I'm Laura Vanderkamp. I'm a mother of five, an author, journalist,
and speaker.
Speaker 3 (00:15):
And I'm Sarah Hart Hunger, a mother of three, practicing physician, writer,
and courtse creator. We are two working parents who love
our careers and our families.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Welcome to best of both worlds. Here we talk about
how real women manage work, family, and time for fun.
From figuring out childcare to mapping out long.
Speaker 1 (00:33):
Term career goals.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
We want you to get the most out of life.
Speaker 1 (00:41):
Welcome to best of both worlds. This is Laura.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
This episode is airing in early May of twenty twenty five.
Sarah is going to be interviewing Tiffany Moon, who some
people may know from her appearances on the Real Housewives
of Dallas. However, she also has a career as a physician,
done a lot of other interesting, fascinating things that she
(01:03):
writes about in her new memoir, Joy Prescriptions. So we're
very excited to talk to Tiffany. But Sarah, you were
not a regular Real Housewives of Dallas viewer prior to this.
Speaker 1 (01:16):
Correct.
Speaker 3 (01:17):
No, I really haven't spent much time watching Real Housewives
in general, and so I didn't necessarily know what to
expect I knew that she would probably be super glamorous,
but when I read her memoir, actually, like, I was
really drawn in by just how interesting her entire life
story and the trajectory and how The Real Housewives was
(01:37):
like one piece of her history. But definitely, once I
was finished, I was like, well, that does not define
Tiffany Moon. So yeah, some people are probably coming at
this from like knowing her from the show, and I
can't came at it from a different angle, but I
kind of think her story is probably fascinating from either.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
Yeah, what I should say, It was funny you guys
were having such a challenging time coming up with the
time to make the interview work because you are both
still seeing patients.
Speaker 1 (02:00):
I mean she sees patients a couple of days a week.
Speaker 3 (02:02):
Correct, Well, they're actually the opposite days, so her like, oh,
our days are my like podcasting days, and vice versa.
So it actually turned out that the day that our
family left on a spring break trip, I had taken
off and was like a Thursday, which is not a
day like usually I'm clinically, So it was like, woo,
the stars aligned. I think we moved it like three
(02:22):
times and it worked out, and it was my fault
that we were moving it like not the Real Housewife.
Speaker 2 (02:27):
Like, yeah, well I should tell people Sarah's so conscientious
that we got when I got the text that Sarah
was like in the hospital with her cardiac event, She's
also like R and I can't dinner view Tiffany because
I'm here, and I'm like, huh, okay, well they'll probably understand.
Speaker 1 (02:43):
They did.
Speaker 3 (02:43):
They were so nice, like they really were the whole team.
Speaker 1 (02:47):
So are you much?
Speaker 2 (02:48):
I mean you don't really watch You've watched some reality TV,
haven't you read that?
Speaker 3 (02:51):
Fun to do a little rundown of like some of
our favorite reality shows over the years, So Dance Moms
with Annabelle mostly, But yeah, is it cake is one
that my kids enjoy?
Speaker 1 (03:03):
Is it cake? I don't even know what this is.
Speaker 3 (03:06):
Oh, they make a cake or maybe it's not a cake,
and you have to guess if it's cake or not
because some of these things look so life like. And
then they get a knife and like if it cuts
and opens in the cake, then it was cake.
Speaker 1 (03:18):
Laura, You've got to check this out or feel like
you would do all right? Somehow I have my kids
like is it cake cultural phenomenon.
Speaker 3 (03:24):
Really really old shows that I really loved were The
Glee Project, which was a spin off of the show Glee,
but they were like trying to find the next cast member,
so it was like a performance reality show. I did
watch The Real World for a few seasons, like twenty
years ago, American Idol of course, and then a sleeper
hit in my family has been Shark t Ooh okay, yeah,
(03:46):
like we'll watch that weirdly at like hotels.
Speaker 1 (03:48):
Yeah yeah, well, you know, it comes on. It's interesting.
I'm sure.
Speaker 3 (03:52):
Yeah, sure, it's like always on and everyone likes it,
like all five of us, so great.
Speaker 1 (03:57):
It works about you, it works not that many.
Speaker 2 (03:59):
I mean I did watch the season finale of the
first season of Survivors, so I had that Richard Hatch
cultural point there, that cultural reference point.
Speaker 1 (04:08):
I haven't really watched it since.
Speaker 2 (04:10):
I do like remodeling and renovation shows, which I don't
know if that counts as reality TV, but they are
real he does.
Speaker 1 (04:17):
Usually you get their hunting for houses or something. I
don't know.
Speaker 2 (04:21):
I like the design and renovation stuff and seeing what
people are able to do with the space and like
what can be in vision and often people are able
to stay in their homes that they thought they couldn't
stay in their homes.
Speaker 1 (04:34):
It's just it needed to be renovated, and once.
Speaker 2 (04:35):
It was, it's like they don't actually want to sell it,
which is amazing.
Speaker 1 (04:40):
I always love seeing that.
Speaker 2 (04:42):
But we're excited to hear what Tiffany has to say,
so let's move to the interview.
Speaker 3 (04:49):
Well, I am so excited to welcome doctor Tiffany Moon
to the show. This is such an honor to have her.
I think she and her story are going to resonate
so much with our listeners. She is definitely the first
TV reality star we have had on the show. So
with that, welcome, doctor Tiffany Moon.
Speaker 4 (05:06):
Hi, thank you for having me.
Speaker 3 (05:09):
So can you share. Let's just start from the beginning.
And I actually really enjoyed reading your origin story. And
I don't know that you need to get into all
of that now, although we may revisit some of it,
but give our listeners if they are not familiar with
your TV career or your kind of hybrid creative and
professional career, give us the story in like the three
(05:30):
minute version.
Speaker 4 (05:31):
Okay, So I immigrated to the United States when I
was six years old from China. I didn't speak a
word of English. I had to go to ESL. I
was a super huge nerd my entire life. We moved
very frequently, and so it was hard for me to
make friends, and so I found a lot of solace
(05:53):
in reading and doing schoolwork. I ended up graduating from
high school at the age of fifteen, going to college,
moved out of my parents' house, lived in a dorm.
So I graduated from college when I was nineteen, went
straight into medical school, graduated from medical school when I
was twenty three, got married a few years later, and
(06:16):
then by the time I turned thirty, I had two
kids because I had twins. And then somewhere like in
my mid thirties, about seven years into being a full
time academic antithesiologist, I sort of had this like is
this all there is? Moment? Not that I was ungrateful
(06:37):
or that anything was wrong, but I just felt like
I had worked so hard my entire life to get
to this place that was supposed to be the summit
of this great mountain I had been climbing for all
my life, and it just wasn't all that I lacked laughter,
I lacked creativity, I lacked connection, and I just felt
(07:00):
like I went to the operating room at six thirty
every day, got off sometime between four to five pm,
missed all the mommy and me things that my kids preschool.
Sometimes I would have a sick child at home and
my nanny was taking care of my sick child while
I went to the operating room to take care of
(07:21):
my patients, and I just felt torn all the time.
So I decided to go part time at work, which
then opened up a lot of new opportunities for me,
such as going on the Real Housewives of Dallas, trying
my hand at stand up comedy, becoming a social media influencer,
(07:43):
and then writing my book. My husband jokes that I
went part time with my anesthesia job, but then I
just picked up like three new jobs.
Speaker 3 (07:52):
So that's kind of where I am now, which is amazing,
and listeners to this podcast can appreciate that I have
a far less glass version of that in my own life.
Talk a little bit about your decision to go part time,
because the way you just described it is not quite
the order you talked about it in your book. You
really really struggled with that, Yeah, Can you share how
(08:16):
that played out?
Speaker 4 (08:17):
Yes. In my department at work, I had seen a
couple of women go part time before, either because they
wanted to be more present with their families, and sometimes
it was because they got sick and they needed to
have time off to go to their appointments and stuff.
And the unsaid thing at my work was that if
(08:39):
you go part time, you sort of fall off the
rising star trajectory in terms of having leadership positions, committee roles, teaching, mentoring,
that kind of stuff. And they would call it going
on the quote unquote mommy trap, like that was what
going part time was. And I had worked so hard
(09:03):
my entire life. I went into the best anesthesia program
in the country. I graduated at the top of my
medical school class. I was running multiple clinical trials and
writing manuscripts. I mean I was breastfeeding one of my
twins and literally typing a manuscript with the other hand
on a laptop like it was wild. I had that
Bobby Pillow thing, and I was so scared that if
(09:28):
I went part time, I would fall off that growth
curve and drop down. And I just didn't want to
sacrifice all the hard work that I had spent to
get there, only to then be relegated to the mommy track,
and so I was like full force ahead. And I
also wanted to do everything for my twin girls. So
(09:52):
if I wasn't at the hospital, I was at home
trying to make them homemade food, take them to mommy
and me like jimboree and swim classes and music and
all that stuff. And I quite frankly burned myself out
because I was trying to be everything for everyone all
(10:13):
at once.
Speaker 3 (10:14):
And I think now that i've I mean, this can
be common, but your story is even more nuanced, because
I think it's very interesting how much you even though
you had a good amount of financial security, although obviously
that can always change, but you could have gone part
time earlier. You had an influencer career that was probably
(10:34):
growing at that time already, and yet you stopped yourself.
I wonder, and this is kind of in the book.
I'm like reading between the lines, but you can tell
me with some of that more like answering to your
family's expectations or sort of like your concept of what
being good kind of meant and how did you reckon
with that?
Speaker 4 (10:54):
It was both You're right that none of this was
about money. I mean I don't want to sound inconsiderate,
but like I didn't need to work right and certainly
not work that hard and be full time running clinical trials,
taking overnight trauma call and liver transplant call like I
was doing like way more. I think this is the
(11:17):
crux of it that I've come to, this realization after
lots of therapy, is that growing up as a child,
the only time that I ever felt worthy was when
I was doing something and helping other people and or
making money. So I think a lot of this comes
from my family upbringing. My parents were very strict, typical
(11:43):
Asian immigrant parents, you know, like a ninety six was
not good enough. They would ask me like, oh, why
did you get a ninety six, Like you missed a problem.
Let me see that, Like how could you miss that?
That's such an easy problem, you know, that kind of thing.
And so even as a young adult, even now in
my forties, I still struggle with my worth and I
(12:05):
keep taking on more tasks in order to prove how
strong and capable I am. And here I wrote an
entire book about finding joy. But I still have moments
where there's this little nagging voice in the back of
my head that tells me if I don't continue to
(12:29):
achieve and do things, that I won't be seen as worthy.
And I have to remind myself all the time. It's
not like I just figured it out and I'm healed. Now.
Speaker 3 (12:41):
That's interesting that you still consider it like a work
in progress. Yeah, is it something you talk about like, well,
you've mentioned therapy and then I guess like with family
members and your husband.
Speaker 4 (12:52):
And yes, I think therapy has been so helpful because
I had so many complicated feelings about my childhood that
I kind of swept under the rug. In my family,
we didn't talk about feelings or problems, Like even when
my parents were fighting, they would just not speak to
each other for days at a time. And I saw
this as a child. It was very weird. So I
(13:17):
credit a lot of my personal growth the last five
to ten years to therapy. Also working with an executive coach.
I used to make fun of women who had coaches
because I'd be like, what are they coaching you for?
Like you don't know how to be an adult? But
like I've now swung the other way, and I tell
everybody that they need a coach, no matter what line
(13:40):
of work. You're in. And I think the third thing
probably was learning to set healthy boundaries, because I grew
up in a home where there were no boundaries, and
I grew up wanting to be perfect and people please
and always do more. And when I learned to set
healthy boundaries and enforce them, I really feel like that
(14:04):
changed my life.
Speaker 3 (14:05):
I love that We're going to take a quick break
and we'll be back talking a little bit more about
some of the lessons that you share in your book.
All right, we are back, And one of the chapters
(14:27):
that I really enjoyed was you talking about your college
experience and then your med school experience. Maybe I enjoyed
those because I followed somewhat of a similar path, although
I did not do my college in two years the
way you did. But then you came to a conclusion
that I think you regretted some of the way you
approached college. And talk a little bit about the concept
(14:49):
of enjoying the process. Can you share how that played
out and maybe some of the ways in which you
feel like you're better able to enjoy the process today
or what that might look like.
Speaker 4 (14:58):
Yes, So I always thought that there was a finish
line and the faster I got to the finish line
than I would win, but life is not a race.
And because I went to college so early, like I
never went to senior prom, I never had like that
(15:21):
first crush experience, like I was basically in high school
and then I moved out of my parents' house to
go to the dorm and had to grow up very
quickly with it in like a several months. And then
I went to Cornell after my program in Texas, and
I was just studying all the time. I was taking
like seventeen to nineteen credits a semester. I was taking
(15:45):
organic chemistry and physics and studying for the MCAT at
the same time. Because god forbid I take a gap
year between undergrad and medical school, Like no, I needed
to go straight through. And that was just too much
of a course load for someone, you know, So I
missed out on a lot of those rich college experiences
(16:08):
that other people talk about because I was just straight
up going to class and study like that was all
college was for me. I went to Cornell a total
of four semesters, no summer school, no whatever, and basically
just packed it all in. But because there was so
much emphasis on like academic achievement and finishing early. I
(16:32):
didn't get to study abroad. I don't really have besties
from college because you need to spend time with people
in order to nurture those deep friendships, and I just wasn't.
I was like in the library studying all the time.
And when I graduated, I was nineteen. So I tell
people how I look at my life, my medical school
(16:54):
was my college because when I was in medical school,
I was nineteen to twenty three years old. That's more
college age. And I'm telling you, like, those four years
were probably the most fun years of my life, which
when I tell normal people that, they're like, oh my god,
this girl's such a dork, like she loved medical school
(17:15):
so much. But my two best friends from this very
day until this very day were my tank mates from
Cadaver Lab, Lisa and Michelle. And so I think I
replaced my college experience with my medical school experience. But
I do wish that I could have just slowed down
a little bit and enjoyed and stopped to smell the roses,
(17:39):
because I was just a one track horse with blinders
on focus at the finish line. And then the sad
thing is you think it's going to be like confetti
and streamers at the finish line. And you get there
and it's kind of like meh, like, what's the next thing? Oh,
I guess we'll start med school. Now, you know, what's
the next thing? I need to do residency fellowship. Then
(18:02):
I got to get a prestigious academic job. Like the
finish line always moves, there's always another target. And so
what I tell people now is like the joy is
in the journey and not in the destination.
Speaker 3 (18:16):
And that that's true now, right, Like, cause I'm sure
as you were doing Real Housewives it was like, okay, this, well,
it didn't sound like you loved every minute of that,
but you enjoy it.
Speaker 4 (18:25):
There was not a whole lot of joy in Housewives.
There was a lot of drama, a lot of fighting,
a lot of stupidity, but like joy not so much.
Speaker 3 (18:36):
And then not, well, that process might have been more
tough to enjoy. But I guess even with something like that,
which for some people might have been like the pinnacle
of what they were aiming for, not necessarily you, but
for some people they're still what's next? Now it's the book? Okay,
the book's done. Now, what's next, and even with less
glamorous things in their lives. I think a lot of
our listeners can relate to that. How do you go
(18:58):
about like enjoying your now as it is every day,
mundane day to mundane day.
Speaker 4 (19:04):
Yes, So okay, these are like the three pillars that
I try to focus on. It's connection, gratitude, and laughter,
And that's what I have in the book as well,
like each of the chapters that ends with the joy prescription.
So connection is so important to me because I used
to feel like I live life like on the very
surface of the water, but never going deep enough to
(19:27):
make those actual connections. It's you know, like passing by colleague, surgeons,
nurses in the army like oh, hey, how is your weekend?
Like where'd y'all go for spring break? It was just
all very like surface level, and I was like, I'm
not going to do that anymore. I'm going to like
choose some people to interact with in a more deep
and meaningful manner, you know, like we would have a
(19:47):
new faculty on board, and after they settled in a
little bit, I'd be like, hey, next time you're in
between surgeries or whatever, like let me buy you a
coffee and let's go sit and talk, and I'd be like,
where are you from? Why did you come to Dallas?
Why did you pick this job? And just get to
know people a little bit better, Like I really feel
like for many years I didn't have rich, deep connections.
(20:12):
The second thing is gratitude, because I think we're all
so busy and the world is a crazy place, and
sometimes I would catch myself like just being complaining or
woe is me? Things aren't going the way I wanted. Oh,
I was supposed to go home at three pm, but
they just put an ad on case in my room
and I'd be all cranky about it. And I started
(20:33):
like doing a lot of mindset work. I read so
many self help books, listen to all the podcasts, and
I started telling my brain that when things happen, that
I get to do something, not I have to do something,
you know, like when my alarm goes off at five
and I'm supposed to go to the gym before I
(20:53):
go to ther I'm like ugh. But then I just
tell myself like, Nope, it's a privilege, Like I get
to go to the jim you know, my body is able,
and I'm working on not having sarcipedia when I'm older
in osteoporosis, so I'm doing like weight bearing exercise, and yeah,
it's a pain in the ass, it really is, especially
at five point thirty in the morning. But like, I
(21:15):
think it's a privilege, not a punishment. And I was
listening to a podcast about a year ago and the
woman on there said some people would take your problems
and call them blessings, and I was like, oh, like,
(21:35):
you're right, Like I've come so far, and sometimes I
just catch myself complaining about the stupidest things. But then
when I think about that line, it kind of like
humbles and grounds me. And then the last thing is laughter.
My twin girls are ten now, so they're not as
goofy as they were when they were like three, four
(21:56):
or five, and I could do silly things, but sometimes
before get to laugh, or we just take ourselves so seriously,
And anesthesia's not exactly like a fun funny specialty. I
have like really sick people on the table, and so
now I try to like intentionally cultivate laughter, whether that's
(22:16):
like watching a one hour Netflix special, doing something silly
with my kids, running around like just trying to find
the funny in life's situations versus being like pissed off
and annoyed.
Speaker 3 (22:30):
So it's a really interesting reframe. I'm like picturing you
and the well, there could be things to make fun
of in the oar. I could see my war.
Speaker 4 (22:36):
It's pretty serious. The laughter part actually doesn't really go
in the or. You know, some of the surgeons they
don't like my jokes, or the patients they're like, are
you gonna put me to sleep? And I'm like, uh huh,
maybe I'll even wake you up and they're like they're
like that, No, we leave the jokes outside the.
Speaker 3 (22:55):
Or oh my gosh. Well, we're going to take another
break and then we're going to talk about something I
loved that you brought up, which is weaponized professionalism. All right,
we will be right back. All right, we are back.
(23:20):
And I was so fascinated by you talking about how
you know, if I met you at work, I would
be like, that is the coolest thing ever. She is
like doing it all. She's so fashionable, she's so cool,
Like let me follow her around, let me try to
get surgery. So anyway, I would be very excited to
work with you, and like in awe of all you've accomplished,
but then you've noted that in some spheres, doing things
(23:45):
that might be seen as more feminine, maybe maybe more superficial,
are sort of like used against you. And I think
the phrase from your book was weaponized professionalism, and I
was like, ooh, and I do feel like this is
something that disproportionately impacts I'm in. It might even disproportionally
impact people of color, different ethnicities, And I'd love to
(24:06):
know kind of what you've seen with this and then
how you have learned to handle it.
Speaker 4 (24:11):
Yeah, I've dealt with a lot of that. I think whenever,
as a female professional, someone else doesn't like something you're doing,
they weaponize the word professionalism against you. Oh, that's unprofessional.
So several years ago, like twenty twenty, actually, COVID Times
(24:31):
is when I really started being more active on social media.
Before that, I would just like look at other people's
social media and maybe like some stuff, but I never
posted anything on my page. And then in twenty twenty,
because of the pandemic and all the elective surgeries at
work had been canceled, we were only doing like cancer
and trauma surgeries. I had more time on my hands,
(24:54):
and so I started posting just really as a way
to relieve my boredom and try to engage with a
their human beings. And I got called into my supervisor's
office at the hospital and I was told that some
of my social media content was unprofessional. That was the
(25:14):
word they used. I remember it very clearly. My male
supervisor said, stop by my office when you get a chance.
I'm like, ret row. So I go and I'm like, hi, sir,
you wanted to talk to me and he's like, yeah,
have a seat. So there's been some concern from some
of our colleagues that some of your recent social media
(25:37):
posts aren't professional. And I was like, okay, do you
care to elaborate? He was very vague. He wouldn't tell
me which post who brought. I was like, is someone concerned?
Like have I offended someone? And he was like, well,
you know, it's just not a good look because were
(26:01):
supposed to be, you know, professionals, and people look up
to us. And I'm like, okay, I'm dancing. I'm posting
about skincare, beauty fashion. I had made this thing called
quarantine fashion, and I pretended like the hallway of my
house was a runway and then we made different outfits
using like trash bags, toilet paper, like weird stuff, and
(26:23):
it was a quarantine fashion show. Like it was all
in good fun. It was all filmed during off time.
It's not like I was engaging in dangerous or legal
activities or whatever. And I just sat there in his
office like absolutely flabbergasted that one people were watching me
enough to care and then two like screenshotting it and
(26:48):
sending it to him. Because I was like kind of upset,
and I was like, look, unless you have a specific
thing that I did, like giving me this blanket, your
social media is unprofessional, like doesn't help me. Like I
don't know what should I just stop posting altogether? And
I was like, also, who told you this? Because he
was like, oh, well, I'm not even on social media,
(27:11):
so I don't really understand what's going on. And I
was like, well, did you actually see any of the posts?
And he said, well, some people screenshoted some stuff and
texted it to me, and I was like, you know what,
these people need something better to do. Obviously they're following
and watching me, you know, and then they don't like
something I'm doing and then they like report it under
(27:31):
the guise of like, I'm concerned this may reflect poorly
on our department, and I was like, get out of here.
Like people like that, I can't stand them.
Speaker 3 (27:42):
There's something a little sinister about specifically, I don't know,
targeting like more feminine, you know, because if it was
a guy like picturing showing his like monster truck hobby
and his fishing, like I just don't think the conversation,
like no one would have minded right, Like.
Speaker 4 (27:58):
No guys are doing like that. You're chugging thing with
the hose or whatever, and like having a con it's
like a frat party, you know what I mean, and
everybody thinks it's funny. But then like I model a
dress made out of toilet paper and that's unprofessional, you
know what I mean. It's a double standard for sure.
Speaker 3 (28:18):
But ultimately you you must have worked it out. So
did you tell them that, like, hey, let's pretend this
was some other topic, Like what specifically do you have
an issue with? Like how were you able to resolve things?
Speaker 4 (28:32):
I don't know that I resolved them. I basically said,
unless you have more specific and constructive feedback for me,
I don't know what more else I can do. And
that was basically it, and I thought, Okay, there's a
fork in the road here. I can either play small
and tone down my social media because apparently I've made
(28:56):
some people uncomfortable with it. But also I'm like, stop watching,
Like if you don't like my content, you know, there's
this whole button that says like block or unfollow or something,
you know, like why keep watching my content? But then
like report it to get me in trouble. That's so lame.
And the other side of the fork of the road
(29:17):
was like, hey, how about I just keep being myself
and posting the things that I like and this is
my life and I will not shrink or dim my
light because it's a little too bright for you. And
I went with that. I was like, I'm not going
to play small. So in many ways, I kept doing
(29:38):
what I was doing, and in many ways I doubled
down and made even more content because I was like,
I don't know it kind of like whenever people challenge me,
I'm like, watch this. So I made even more content.
I started getting brand partnerships, my follower count started going
up and up. I was like getting invited to go
(30:00):
to dinners at new restaurants, that were opening in town
just because they wanted some people to go and post
about it. And I was like, this is kind of
a cool side gig, Like I'm so glad that I
didn't decide to play small when all these losers were
complaining about me, because now look at all these opportunities
that I have.
Speaker 3 (30:18):
I think it's awesome. You said a boundary and then
you went for it, and you're like, if you have
feedback for my anesthesia performance, please let me know. I
would love to hear about that.
Speaker 4 (30:27):
Yes, the funniest thing that ever happened was it was
actually a woman. It's funny. There's like man on women badness,
and then there's like women on women badness. One of
my female physician colleagues screenshotted something that I posted, and
I guess she meant to send it to someone else,
(30:49):
but she sent it to me, talking crap about me
like it yeah, oops, right, Like this was like before
the days of like I think you can unsend an
I message Now I don't really know how that works,
but I screenshoted it anyway, and I have it like
forever in my camera role. And then she tried to backtrack.
(31:09):
She was like oh, I didn't mean, and I was like,
you can't. You cannot backtrack from that. So I became
very acutely aware that there were people in my department
like actively trying to take me down. And that was
a crappy feeling. But I have screenshots so if this
ever goes anywhere, like, I have a whole folder of
(31:29):
receipts on stuff like this.
Speaker 3 (31:33):
Oh my goodness, And you shared the acronym haters having
anger towards everybody reaching success. Hadn't heard that before?
Speaker 4 (31:40):
Yes, I didn't come up with that. I borrowed it
from a podcast or something else that I read. But
that's how I think of haters. I do social media
coaching for female physicians and other business leaders. I basically
audit their social media page and look at what's working,
what's not, give them content, ideas and just strategies to
(32:03):
elevate their brand presence on social media. And often it
comes up with my clients that when they post and stuff,
there's always some haters in the comments, and so this
is when I use that, and I'm like, haters stands
for having ancher towards everyone reaching success, because anytime you
kind of like come out of your lane a little
(32:25):
bit and put yourself out there. There's going to be negativity. Like,
that's how human nature works. So the way I explain
it is like, say you play small, you go to work,
you go to church, your kids have some parents that
are your friends. So you have like one hundred people
in your sphere of influence, right, and like five or
(32:47):
ten of them you just don't care for. You don't
get along, You generally try to avoid each other. The
problem is when you start putting yourself out there, especially
on social media, and now your sphere of influence grows
from let's say one hundred to a thousand or ten
thousand people now fifty to one hundred or five hundred
(33:09):
to one thousand people don't care for you. It's the
same exact proportion, but it's much more people. And we
as humans always have a negativity bias, right, And so
a lot of my clients, once they start getting the
hater comments, I'm like, that's.
Speaker 1 (33:26):
Great, babe.
Speaker 4 (33:28):
That means you're doing something, that means you're growing. And
they're like, doesn't feel great, and I'm like, no, trust me, Like,
if you have haters, that means you are doing something right.
It means you're putting yourself out there and not everyone
agrees with everything. You don't agree with everything you hear,
you don't like everybody that comes across your feet, and
(33:48):
it's fine. So my goal, I tell my clients, I'm like,
your goal is to get more haters, because that means
you're growing. I mean, it's kind of a joke, but
I want to normalize the fact that there will always
be naysayers and we should not let that detract us
from following our passion and continuing to put ourselves out there.
(34:10):
If I had let all that stuff at work happen,
I would have like not kept posting on social media.
And now that's like one of my actual jobs and
it's so fun and it gives me way more flexibility
than working in the operating room, and it allows me
to flex my creativity and laughter, which there's not much
(34:34):
creativity or laughter in the operating room. So it's really
enriched my life. And had I listened to the haters,
I wouldn't even be here. So the lesson to the
listeners here is like, do not listen to the haters.
Speaker 3 (34:46):
I love it, I love it, love it. I love
that you're still doing the hybrid. I love that you
are working full time in different ways while still enjoying
your time with your kids. This has been so much
fun and I absolutely recommend your bo especially because I
really feel like you share so much and it reads
like a juicy memoir, not like Self Help to Me,
(35:06):
which I thought like was a good thing. Before we
wrap up, I forgot to warn you, but we always
share one thing that we love on the show. Just
anything making you happy this week.
Speaker 4 (35:16):
Now.
Speaker 3 (35:16):
I remember your gratitude list from your book, which was
kind of funny. So you could do something like what
you put on there, or just anything. It could be
like the weather, it could be like a product, anything.
I'm going to start us off to give you time
to think, and I'm just going to share. My love
of the week is that I got to take my
thirteen year old shopping for her birthday. And I don't know,
(35:37):
I feel like that was one of those kind of
things you envision when your kids are little, like, oh,
my kid's gonna be a teen and we're gonna go
shopping together. There's gonna be fun. And it really really
was fun. We mostly got like ath leisure like Lulu
and Alo, and it was great. I had a wonderful time.
Speaker 4 (35:50):
So what is so sweet?
Speaker 3 (35:52):
So what is your love of the week.
Speaker 4 (35:53):
Okay, well we just got a new dog. He's right here,
let me see if oh, well your people can't see there.
Speaker 3 (36:01):
That's so exciting.
Speaker 4 (36:02):
We got a new dog. His name is Custom. He's
laying on the floor next to me right now. He's
such a sweet boy. He is a Belgian malinoaw. I
don't know if you know what that is. It's people
think he's a German Shepherd. They look similar, but it's
not exactly the same. But he's so sweet. I haven't
My other dog is like seven. And if Custom is new,
(36:25):
you forget. It's like having a child, Like how hard
it is in the beginning, you know, because he's like
chewing everything and having accidents and all this kind of stuff.
But I don't know, he's like my son. I love
him so much and I don't know what it is,
but like, I just love animals. I just have away
with animals. My friend calls me snow white because animals
(36:48):
just gravitate towards me. I'm like the dog whisper, not
so much with people, but but with dogs. Yes, So
my obsession right now is my new dog.
Speaker 3 (37:00):
I love it. So just remind our listeners the name
of your book and where they can find you.
Speaker 4 (37:06):
Yes, the name of my memoir is Joy Prescriptions. It's
available anywhere where books are sold, or on joyprescriptions dot com,
where before May sixth you can get over three hundred
dollars worth of pre order bonuses. And if you guys
want to follow me along on all my unprofessional antics,
(37:29):
I'm across all the social media platforms at Tiffany Moon MD.
Speaker 3 (37:34):
Amazing. Thank you so much for coming on, Tiffany.
Speaker 4 (37:36):
Thanks for having me. Sarah, Well we are back.
Speaker 1 (37:39):
That was great.
Speaker 2 (37:40):
Sarah interviewing Tiffany Moon, author of the brand new book
Joy Prescriptions. So our question this week comes from someone
who says her husband and she have agreed to do
more date nights, but seem to tire of the typical
dinner and we cannot stay up for a movie. Other ideas,
including even home dates, are welcome. So, Sarah, what are
you thinking would be fun in the offbeat date night category?
Speaker 4 (38:05):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (38:05):
So, I always feel like a low key sport can
be good, meaning like bowling, mini golf, something where there's
a little like competition to keep it spicy, and I
top golf is like a new thing. I mean that's
like a specific chain, but like that's sort of like
regular golf, but can be gamified, which would I think
be fun on a date. I think anything that could
be gamified, like even a museum, Like, okay, let's go
(38:28):
to a museum together and then decide if we can
each find like guess each other's favorites in a given room.
Or my other idea was night of hedonism where you
get massages and then go out for ice cream.
Speaker 1 (38:40):
Interesting and at home you had some ideas for at home? Yes,
at home.
Speaker 3 (38:45):
Someone told me about this, I think in a Patreon maybe.
But virtual wine tasting is a thing where you can
get a box sent to you and then like they
do a zoom and then you and your partner like
taste wines like in together, but like with a like
a Somelier leading.
Speaker 1 (39:00):
Interesting. This that's interesting. Huh yeah. Yeah, it's not like
how do you virtually drink wine? I'm not sure. No,
you drink the real drink the real wine. Okay, that's good.
That makes for a better date. Yeah, that's sounds fun.
Speaker 2 (39:12):
I think one idea is you know if it sounds
like people are tired at this could be a problem.
Like you've gotten through the work weekends, like Friday night
is date night, but then like everyone's so tired they
kind of want to go to bed. I wonder if
you could get out of the idea of night or
maybe like move your regular date time. Maybe for your family,
it would work better if you hired a sitter for
like four hours on Saturday afternoon, and you could go
(39:32):
out to lunch, or go to the gym together, or
go to an art museum, or go play top golf
for whatever, but at a time when you would have
a lot more energy. Or as we heard in our
Cheap It Hot episode a few weeks ago, you could
also hire that sitter to take your children out of
your house and then you could do whatever you want
(39:52):
in your house during that time on Saturday afternoons. I
would also just suggest pro sports is a a different thing.
If you've got any or minor league sports would work
in major league, minor league, whatever. If you are in
a reasonable size city, there might be something you can do.
It turns out places have a lot of different teams.
We've been doing the tour of Phillies Professional sports institutions,
(40:15):
and that's made for a couple of fun activities for us.
Speaker 3 (40:19):
And that's a great one because like you have entertainment
but on like a play or a movie, like, there's
plenty of time to talk to each other.
Speaker 1 (40:25):
So yeah, yeah, I like it.
Speaker 2 (40:26):
But you know it might be helpful just to brainstorm
ideas too, Like we could treat this as something of
a project for the two of you instead.
Speaker 1 (40:33):
Of because I think sometimes this gets to the well,
we have this center for Friday, like we have a
regular Friday setters that what are we supposed to do?
I don't know what do you want to do?
Speaker 2 (40:40):
So just some other time, like both of you, like
brainstorm a short list separately, and then you come together
and compare your lists and brainstorm together to add no
more to the list.
Speaker 3 (40:50):
This would be a fun date night activity.
Speaker 1 (40:52):
Well that's true. You could make that into a date
night activity as well. Let's play on our next date. Right,
we're not doing anything tonight, but here's what we might
do at our next time. We do this.
Speaker 3 (41:01):
Combine it with your virtual wine tasting.
Speaker 2 (41:03):
Yes, that's true, that could work as well, or just
forget the tasting, just pour a glass of wine it's
all good, yeah, and who knows what you might come
up with, but I think you know it's worth spending
some time and then you'll have a couple ideas for
there on Thurne Well, this has been best of both worlds.
Sarah has been interviewing Tiffany Moon, author of the book
Joy Prescriptions, also known for her appearances on Real Housewives
(41:25):
of Dallas. We will be back next week with more
on making work and life fit together.
Speaker 3 (41:31):
Thanks for listening. You can find me Sarah at the
shoebox dot com or at the Underscore Shoebox on Instagram,
and you.
Speaker 2 (41:39):
Can find me Laura at Laura vandercam dot com.
Speaker 1 (41:43):
This has been the best of both worlds podcasts.
Speaker 2 (41:46):
Please join us next time for more on making work
and life work together.
Popular Podcasts
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com