May 13, 2025 • 41 mins
In today's episode, Meagan chats with Laura about launching kids into the real world (timely!), and they also pivot to talking all things fun and leisure.
Meagan's book, The Last Parenting Book You'll Ever Read: How to Let Our Kids Go and Embrace What's Next is out this month and available wherever books are sold. Find lots more from Meagan at meaganfrancis.com .
In the Q&A, Laura and Sarah discuss life skills kids should know as they head off to college.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
Hi. I'm Laura Vanderkamp. I'm a mother of five, an author, journalist,
and speaker.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
And I'm Sarah hart Hunger, a mother of three, practicing physician, writer,
and course creator. We are two working parents who love
our careers and our families.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
Welcome to best of both worlds. Here we talk about
how real women manage work, family, and time for fun.
From figuring out childcare to mapping out long term career goals.
We want you to get the most out of life.
Welcome to best of both worlds. This is Laura. This
episode is airing in early to mid May of twenty
(00:46):
twenty five. I am going to be interviewing Megan Francis.
She is the author of the new book, The Last
Parenting Book You'll Ever Read. We also know her for
as a longtime host of The Mom Hour, which is ending,
but they are launching a new podcast about midlife lady pursuits,
which is certainly a topic we cover in the interviews. So, Sarah,
(01:08):
you are a longtime listener of The Mom Hour.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
Correct, Yes, many many years of listening to Megan and
Sarah talk about parenting and all kind of parenting adjacent topics.
Speaker 3 (01:18):
So when they.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
Announced that their podcast was coming to a close. I
was so sad, but then immediately thrilled that they're going
to be coming up with a kind of new one
with new life, so exciting.
Speaker 1 (01:28):
Well, they sort of realized that their kids had aged
out of this time, you know that people were coming
to the mom Hour, I think as she talked about
expecting to hear about like baby products, like what's new
in this and all that, and it's just they're not
in that mind space anymore, and they wanted to just
make a clean break and start something new, which I get.
But Megan's book is all about, you know, when your
(01:49):
kids get older and they're launching out into the real
world and sort of the emptying nest and how that
goes as a parenting phase and also is figuring out
who you are in the absence of sort of these
day caretaking responsibilities. So it's it's a phrase. I'm starting
to enter it. I've got a while to go because
I still have a five year old.
Speaker 2 (02:07):
But your nests, well you can take the part of
the advice about the like launching part and yeah, your
nest isn't gonna be empty, tell after mine's empty.
Speaker 1 (02:14):
Sorry, you got a while nah. Yeah, Well, Sarah, do
you have any midlife lady leisure pursuits.
Speaker 2 (02:20):
I'm really like in the market for some because running
was my big midlife lady pursuit. I mean, I it
was so fun and it took up a lot of
mental even when it wasn't running, I was like thinking
on running, like the following running, but I had.
Speaker 1 (02:32):
A whole thing with it, like you were buying the
shoes and you were listening to the running podcasts and
all that.
Speaker 2 (02:36):
Yes, yeah, yeah, so I feel like I'm actively looking
for some subs. I do feel like I could be
a yoga lady, like that could be part of it,
But then I also want something that's not physical specifically.
Speaker 1 (02:47):
Okay, I kind.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
Of like feel like cooking might be a thing maybe,
but like.
Speaker 1 (02:53):
How would you make that sort of hobbyish versus like
I need to cook dinner for my family.
Speaker 2 (02:57):
Yeah, so I thought about maybe like cooking through a
cookbook again, which is something I've done before, and choosing
one that's kind of like has a cooking school feel
to it, like how to make the perfect egg, how
to make this. Now I wouldn't be able to do
this every night, but it could be like a fun
weekend activity that I like look forward to during the
week and like maybe read about the techniques and then
I like do them.
Speaker 1 (03:14):
So yeah, have you ever thought about actually taking like
an in person cooking class or something.
Speaker 2 (03:20):
I might, but I don't like to leave the house
at night very often.
Speaker 4 (03:23):
I know.
Speaker 1 (03:24):
But if it's a weekend activity already, I mean, then
it could be a Saturday afternoon sort of thing, right,
It's true, Okay, I wouldn't rule it out. Yeah, all right,
what about you? Well, I guess singing is sort of
my midlife lady leisure pursuit. You know. I'm now into
two choirs. This is sort of humorous because many years ago,
when I first moved to New York City, I was
like in three choirs right when I was just on
(03:45):
my own and like self employed, so I wasn't seeing
people like during the day, and so I wound up
joining three choirs to have things to get me out
of the house at night, and then slowly that dwindled
down to one. After I got married and started a family.
Sang in the Young New Yorker's Chorus for many years,
and then we left New York and I was not
there for a while, and then I started up singing
(04:07):
with my church choir here in Pennsylvania about almost eight
years ago, and it was great. I enjoyed it. I'm
still doing that and I've gotten to Jasper join us
for some of our singing, which has been fun as well.
But then I also was like, well, you know, I
could do more, and I sang with a different choir
(04:28):
to do the B Minor Mass over the holidays this
year as something off my bucket list, and I was like, well,
my fun to keep singing with them. So I happened.
So now I'm back into two choirs and so that's
my Monday and Thursday nights now. But I think I
do think there's one of her, like midlife lady leisure
pursuit things is like a lot of it's kind of
tinkering or like fitting in spaces of time, and so
(04:51):
I've been pondering with that. I mean, maybe my puzzles
are that. Do you think that counts?
Speaker 2 (04:55):
I think that counts, especially if they're I mean, the
only thing with puzzles is it's not really like a
lot of growth element unless you're doing harder and harder
puzzles or something.
Speaker 1 (05:06):
Maybe because there needs to be a growth element. I
can't just like maybe there doesn't bread and let it
go and like enjoy the bread and then keep making it.
I don't know that there's growth in everything. I don't know.
Speaker 2 (05:16):
I really growth appeals to me a lot, even if
it's like really minor growth, like oh, I'll learn one
new yoga pose, or like I'll learn a cooking technique
I didn't know before. Like it doesn't have to be
fancy growth or like winning. I do you feel like
there's some sort of like progression that makes hobbies more
fun for me? But maybe that's a mean thing.
Speaker 1 (05:35):
Well, I would say there probably has been some progression
on the puzzle front. I can tell you I'm better
at them than people who've like never done puzzles before.
Like they're picking up and like what do I do
with this piece? Is like I mean I cannot do
quickly like I know how, I have a strategy. Oh
so then I think, yeah, I think it totally counts. Yeah, okay,
all right, I can not.
Speaker 2 (05:52):
Even do a twenty piece puzzle while you did like
a five hundred piece puzzle.
Speaker 1 (05:55):
Like I'm not kidding, there is a certain but yeah, yeah, okay,
Well then there we go. Although I don't like to
come up with ones that are too challenging because then
it is kind of my late night brainless sort of thing.
So yeah, there are some that's like all blue, and
I'm like, no, no, no, I will not be doing that.
I need lots of kitschy art in.
Speaker 2 (06:18):
It to make it to a blue puzzle that's like
all punishment is a punishment.
Speaker 1 (06:21):
I wouldn't want to do that. All right, Well, let's
se what Megan Francis has to say. Well, Sarah and
I are delighted to welcome Megan Francis to the show.
So Megan, introduce yourself to our listeners.
Speaker 4 (06:34):
Hello, Hello, So yeah, I'm Megan Francis. I'm a mom
of five. I'm a podcaster co host of the mom
Our podcast. We've been in production for ten years, and
I know that we've done some cross interviews with you guys.
I can't remember which group of us was on which show.
I feel like you were on The mom Hour with
me and Sarah, my co host, was on Best of
(06:55):
Both Worlds with yours Sarah.
Speaker 1 (06:57):
That is quite possible, Okay, I'd have to look through
the archive.
Speaker 4 (07:01):
I and you and I go way back in the
world of freelance writing. I've been a parenting writer primarily
for gosh, over twenty years now.
Speaker 3 (07:10):
So yeah, we go way back.
Speaker 4 (07:12):
And I have a lot going on in my life
where my kids are getting older. I got a divorce,
I got remarried, I now have step children, I have
a step grand baby, Laura.
Speaker 1 (07:22):
I'm in that world something.
Speaker 4 (07:24):
It's something, so yeah, that's kind of me in a nutshell.
I live here in Michigan and I'm always loving to
I don't know, just be trying new things.
Speaker 1 (07:34):
Yeah. Yeah, And Megan has a brand new book called
The Last Parenting Book You'll Ever Read, which is a
wonderful title, by the way. And you said you didn't
really want to write another parenting book, and yes, here
you are. Yes, So what happened what led you to this? Well,
you know how.
Speaker 4 (07:51):
Kids get senior writis And I know this because I
went through this last year. My fourth son was a
high school senior and I feel like he has the
worst scenior writers I've ever seen.
Speaker 3 (08:01):
And he was a very good student. And at some
point I.
Speaker 4 (08:03):
Thought, oh, this is just like how I feel about
writing about parenting. Like I'm ready. It's been a great run.
I'm ready to be done. Can we just move on?
So I actually had a book proposal all about midlife
and kind of like mid life reinvention, and I was
pitching that and my agent, you know, kept getting rejected.
(08:25):
And my agent said, I hate to be like this,
but don't you think you have something to say about
parenting in this stage? I was like, yeah, but I
don't want to, you know. It was kind of like
a little bit of resistance to revisiting themes that I've
been talking about now for so long on the podcast
and for so long in other writing I've done, which
(08:46):
has included other parenting books, that I thought, do I
have anything left to say? Is there really do I
even want to even inhabit this time of my life
or do I just want to jump forward? And I
think what I decided is that I don't get to
jump forward, like I'm still in it. My daughter, who's
the last kid in my house, she's a sophomore. I'm
still very much in it for the next two and
(09:07):
a half three years with a kid in the house,
and I am living this right now.
Speaker 3 (09:11):
I don't just get to jump to the next thing.
Speaker 4 (09:14):
I actually have a lot to say about the transition
that I'm in.
Speaker 3 (09:17):
So I got over it.
Speaker 4 (09:19):
I had an attitude adjustment once I decided that for me,
it wouldn't be meaningful to write about midlife if I
didn't include the transition of my motherhood story as part
of it, which has been such a big part of
my life. In your life and the content we create
in all of.
Speaker 1 (09:34):
That, Yeah, so I think you called it lame duck parenting.
At some point, it's like the last year of a
presidential administration, Like you know it's going to be over,
but you still have to run things.
Speaker 4 (09:44):
You're still do run things, and nobody cares that you're
there anymore. That's how it feels like. My kids are
just they don't know what they don't know about life.
They have no idea how dumb they are about life
right now, and it's my job to help them figure
it out while also help them feel like they're the
ones figuring it out, do you know what I mean,
Like to help them feel a little smarter than they
(10:04):
actually are.
Speaker 1 (10:06):
YEA, Yeah, Well, a lot of random texts about like
things that maybe should be obvious or should not be obvious,
like how do I pay at the dentist's office. I
believe that was one of the ones you got.
Speaker 4 (10:15):
Yes, yes, yes, like so many random texts and questions,
and in some ways it's flattering. I'm like, wow, you
really I'm still the center of your world in a way.
You really still think of me as this person who
knows everything? And then I'll think, is it possible that
I just missed an opportunity to teach you this? But actually,
look back at your life when you were eighteen or nineteen,
(10:36):
you didn't know anything. I didn't know anything at eighteen
or nineteen. I just I conveniently forget how much my
parents were still guiding me through things at that stage.
Speaker 1 (10:46):
To a degree. I mean, although we couldn't reach able
as easily.
Speaker 3 (10:49):
It's very very true. So I guess they just went
undone a lot of the time.
Speaker 1 (10:53):
So if you had a question in the dentist office,
you were kind of stuck.
Speaker 3 (10:56):
That is very true.
Speaker 1 (10:57):
Unless the receptionist was going to call your mom, which
seemed probably.
Speaker 3 (11:01):
A little talk. Then I know, no, they probably would.
Speaker 4 (11:04):
Honestly, they probably would be like, wait, why are you
here without your mommy?
Speaker 3 (11:08):
You're only twenty Yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:10):
Exactly exactly. It does stretch out the growing up process
a little bit. But you know you have to grow
and change too. I think you talk a little bit
in the book about rewriting some of that mom muscle memory. Yeah, right,
Like there are various things you discover are have changed
just because life has changed. I mean, even like going
to the mall.
Speaker 4 (11:29):
Right, yeah, the example I gave of going to the
mall was like something I thought was fun until my
second child was like old enough to climb out of
the stroller. And then by the time I had the third, no,
thank you, I do not want to shop recreationally ever again.
And so I didn't darken the doors of the mall
for a really long time. And then a couple of
years ago, when I just was down to two kids
(11:51):
in the house and one was in driver's training and
I was having to let him drive me about the
countryside as it goes, he said, well, let's go to
the mall. And I was like, oh, the mall. And
then I thought, well, wait, this is great. I have
two teenagers, they can just go do whatever. I can
hang out in Barnes and Noble and get a pretzel.
Speaker 3 (12:12):
Nothing could be better.
Speaker 4 (12:13):
But in my mind I still had that like the
back of my neck tensed up because I thought, oh,
this is going to be awful. There's going to be
you know, a three year old running around and bumping
into the mannequins and feeling them up and stuff. And
none of that happened because I don't have a three
year old anymore. Dinner time, getting dinner on the table
is not a hassle anymore. It's a pleasure now. And
I've had to sort of rewire the way I approached
(12:37):
things that once would have been really stressful or hard
or impossible to say.
Speaker 3 (12:41):
Like, what's possible now? What's actually stressful?
Speaker 1 (12:43):
Now?
Speaker 4 (12:43):
Some of these things that I just think are stressful aren't.
And yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:48):
Although it's funny, I think about this with larger families
and having a lot of kids, because your older two
kids got to go to the mall, and now your
younger two kids got to go to the mall. Number three,
I guess just is at the parenting experience where there
was no.
Speaker 4 (12:59):
Mall, no pictures, you know, poor kid. He also was
my middle was at the time when digital photography was
becoming in but it was awful.
Speaker 1 (13:09):
And yes, yes there's no pictures either. Pictures I have.
Speaker 3 (13:13):
So many photos of him.
Speaker 4 (13:14):
They're just lost of time, or they're just grainy, like
pixelated junk on a hard drive somewhere.
Speaker 3 (13:19):
So yeah, they just get it, don't they, or they
don't they.
Speaker 1 (13:22):
Do or they don't. Yeah, no, I know, I looked
at it. We have a bunch of printed photos of
my oldest because that was still when you were printing
up photos. And then of course the youngest has had
every day documented through you know iPhone that I still have, Yeah,
my iCloud photos that I could look at tomorrow or
today right in like two seconds. But yeah, the middle ones,
it's sort.
Speaker 3 (13:42):
Of like, oh, you know, we're here, right, I do,
we were here.
Speaker 1 (13:45):
I don't know the second one, in particular, there may
be very few photos of the babyhood, so yeah, no
reminding or even just how much stuff you buy in
the grocery store, right, yeah, Oh my gosh.
Speaker 3 (13:58):
I was just thinking about this the other day.
Speaker 4 (13:59):
I went to Aldie and I was in and out
in fifteen minutes, and I had an entire weeks with
the groceries that fit in one bag. And even I
think I mentioned this in the book, I even find
myself eyeballing the half loaves of bread, which I once
would have thought were like for senior citizens, you.
Speaker 3 (14:16):
Know, like people with low appetites.
Speaker 4 (14:19):
But now sometimes if I buy a whole loaf of
bread or a gallon of milk, it just sits there
and we really have to work hard to go through
the food that escalated and de escalated so quickly. It
was such a focus, and you're probably still really in
that like high calorie consumption, like the peak getting a
(14:40):
meal on the table, You're thinking mass, You're thinking what
quantities can I get? How do I cook many things
at once or batch? Because not because box and a
half apostas, iast like no normal portions ever going to
make it for your family, You're going to have to
double or triple. I remember really coveting like a double
wall of an plus arrange with the doublop, and I thought,
(15:02):
if I could just do that, then I could have
everything going at once that I could feed everyone. And
now it's like, oh, I really don't have to think
about food much at all. I'm kind of shifting to
where I want to because it's fun because I had
the time in the space to do it so differently
than I did, and that's been hard too. Because I
(15:22):
got a divorce eight years ago. So the year that
I got divorced, my oldest was just graduated from high
school and my youngest was seven. So suddenly the kids
were going to their dads every other week, and so
it was like every other week I still had to
be super on and cook huge meals, but then the
alternate week it was like me and leftovers from going
(15:43):
out to the restaurant, and so then it was like okay,
So finally got used to that, and then the kids
started leaving. But then they came back, Laura, because it
was COVID.
Speaker 3 (15:52):
They all came back. They all came back.
Speaker 1 (15:54):
It was like, I don't know what to do.
Speaker 4 (15:56):
I'm it's up, it's down, It's all over the place.
Now I'm on a definite down words swing though, where
you know, I'm coming into a busy time of my life.
And I told my daughter the other day, Clara, I'm
just gonna need you to just handle your own meals
for a while. So I put a list on the
instead of filling out the little meal thing that I
still have on the fridge, even though I don't really
(16:16):
need that anymore, kinds of comfort thing. It's like from
that younger stage of motherhood. Instead of filling that out
like I usually would, I just posted a little piece
of paper on the fridge that just said ideas for you,
because what I don't want is her coming to me and.
Speaker 3 (16:31):
Being like, let's see you for dinner.
Speaker 1 (16:33):
What should I make?
Speaker 3 (16:34):
I don't know.
Speaker 4 (16:34):
So I just have everything I think she can handle
more or less on her own, and I'm just like,
pick one, Just go pick one one.
Speaker 1 (16:41):
Yep, they can't feed them. So that's true. That's true. Well,
we're going to take a quick ad break and I
will be back with more from Megan Francis. Well, I
am back talking with Megan Francis, who is the author
(17:03):
of the new book, The Last Parenting Book You'll Ever
read for many years, Megan, you've also been running a podcast, yeah,
called The Mom Hour, and that is, you know, as
we're reinventing ourselves and transitioning, that is transitioning as well.
What's going on with that?
Speaker 4 (17:20):
Yeah, Well, sort of along the same lines of me
not wanting to write another book about parenting at some point.
Sarah and I have Sarah Powers as my co host.
She lives in California. I live in Michigan. So we've
been doing this long distance for a really long time,
and I have more older kids than her, but the
younger ones hers aren't that much further behind me.
Speaker 3 (17:40):
She's got her three or so into the roof.
Speaker 4 (17:42):
But teenagers an on their way onto whatever's next, and
the two of us now are on our way to
whatever's next. And I think what we kind of have
been circling around for a while is it's not just
that we don't want to make content that we would
have ten years ago that would appeal to young mom
of little kids. It's like, we can't. We don't have
(18:03):
our fingers on that pulse anymore. I don't know what
moms of new babies like, what strollers they're buying or what.
I kind of keep an eye on it, but sort
of in a in a way don't care anymore either,
which is a good sign it's time to move on.
So for a little while, the solution was sort of like, well,
on the podcast, let's just talk about that, Let's talk
about what this stage of parenting looks like, and talk
(18:25):
about our teens as much as we're comfortable talk about
how things are changing. And then you kind of run
out of things to say about that. I mean, you know,
as a podcaster sometimes you really have to dig deep
to find something fresh to talk about. And I think
where we finally wound up is someone had asked us
if we would do a podcast episode about things we
(18:47):
wish we had done differently with our teens, and I said,
I can't do that episode because A if I told
you the truth, then it would be very unhelpful, like
it would actually probably make people feel really bad. But
if I didn't tell the truth, I'd be lying, like
it wouldn't be real. And if I didn't tell you everything,
it would gloss over the hard stuff. So much about
parenting teenagers and then the shifting relationship into young adulthood
(19:11):
is not really about me or what I did or
didn't do, so there's no advice to give. Like I
did it, It's done, and do I wish I would
have done some things different, Sure, but I couldn't have
told you then what those things were. And some are
very surprising even to me now. And it's my kid's story,
so don't want to talk about it. And so I
think we finally came to a stage where we thought
it's just time to bring that to an end. So
(19:32):
that podcast is ten years old, turned ten last month
actually in March, and now we're going to be winding
it down and so at the end of June, which
kind of coincides with my book which is out in May,
it's going to be done, like we're ceasing publication. You'll
still be able to find the archives. We have hundreds
and hundreds of episodes, so that'll still be there indefinitely.
Speaker 3 (19:55):
But we just wanted to put kind.
Speaker 4 (19:58):
Of a clean cap on that and it, yeah, called
the mom Our. There's not really a lot of other
places we.
Speaker 1 (20:04):
Could go with.
Speaker 4 (20:05):
It's not the kind of thing where we could just
shift our focus. So we're starting a brand new podcast
called Midlife Lady Leisure Pursuits and that is going to
be all about the things that we like to do
as middle aged ladies.
Speaker 1 (20:19):
Awesome, and we're going to talk about that in a minute.
Good But I'm yeah, I'm kind of curious about this
because of course Sarah and I are thinking about this too.
Our youngest children are five and seven, so we still
have a fair we're still relevant, so fastic. Well yeah,
I mean, but this is the thing, I mean, and
certain we don't have babies or toddlers anymore, and a
(20:39):
lot of people find us they are like, it's recommended
that they listen to our show as they are going
back to work after maternity. Yes, right, And so we've
been pounder it like how do we keep serving up
relevant content for people in that stage of life?
Speaker 4 (20:57):
So I don't know, yeah, and I think with something
like best of both worlds, like there is a place
to take that into any stage that you're in. But
you're right, it's tricky when people find you, like on
a specific topic and that episode. We've had people email
us before and say, hey, I'm looking for this resource
or something you mentioned in episode one hundred and we're like,
I mean, we forgot about that episode seven years ago.
(21:19):
I don't even remember of the episode we recorded two
weeks ago, let alone that long ago. But people don't
know exactly where you are, and then they realize.
Speaker 3 (21:26):
Oh, this is really old content. It is really a
tricky thing.
Speaker 4 (21:31):
And sometimes I think a rebrand isn't necessary, but sometimes
it's helpful to like put a container around the thing
that was and start a brand new thing that can
be what you want us to be.
Speaker 1 (21:41):
So interesting, just something to think about, something to think
about or maybe we just have frequent guests with young
kids or figure that or that or that. Yeah, and
you know, you've also been reinventing yourself. I mean we
mentioned you got remarried, yeah, in twenty twenty three. I'm
very curious how being a midlife newlyywed is different from
being I mean, you were what like twenty.
Speaker 3 (21:59):
The first Yeah, Oh my gosh.
Speaker 4 (22:02):
Well, first of all, we're so much smarter when I
got married the first time around. And I think that's
true whether you get married for the first time when
you're twenty or thirty or you know, and wherever. I
just think there's so much you don't know about what
marriage is, and now we know those things. I think
the thing that has been most interesting that I didn't
(22:23):
really see coming as a challenge is that I got
really used to being alone, like living singly as a
grown up, a straight up grown up with grown children.
Speaker 3 (22:34):
I got really used to that.
Speaker 4 (22:35):
I got used to making all my own decisions about
how I was going to spend my money, or what
TV show I was going to watch or not watch,
like how I was going to decorate the living room,
whatever it was. It was all mine to decide for
kind of a long time. I was single for gosh,
I don't know I was. He and I have been
together for five years, but we just got married two
years ago, and I was divorced. I was probably like
(22:56):
totally on my own for six is years, and that
was just enough time to kind of dig in. So
another nice thing, though, is it's really fun because we're
on the other side of all that family building, life building,
career building.
Speaker 3 (23:09):
We're coasting now.
Speaker 4 (23:10):
We're not doing all that hardcore career building anymore. We're
not we're not raising a young family. So we have
a lot of leisure time and we have a lot
of time to just say, Okay, here's what we've done,
here's what we've built. Now what like, what does this
next stage of our lives look like? And we get
to do it together without that baggage from the past,
which is really nice and very lovely. So it's been
(23:31):
mostly mostly really positive, with a few times of me going,
oh my gosh, I need some space, like where do
I go?
Speaker 3 (23:37):
I got a room of my own?
Speaker 1 (23:39):
Well, and you get to try out the grandma life, right.
Speaker 3 (23:41):
Actually, yes, I have.
Speaker 4 (23:43):
So by the time Eric and I got married, his
son oldest son. He's got a son and a daughter.
The oldest had been remarried and then they had a baby,
like a few months after we got married. So I
get to be a grandma, which is I was not
ready for that.
Speaker 3 (24:00):
And now it could be like any of my older
kids could procreate at any moment.
Speaker 1 (24:05):
I mean, could happen.
Speaker 3 (24:07):
That would be surprising to me right now, but it
could happen.
Speaker 1 (24:10):
It could happen.
Speaker 4 (24:11):
But I just didn't see it coming quite so. Like
it was like a few months, you know, it was like, oh,
here I am marrying into this family where there's already
this baby on the way, and it's been lovely, Like
being at Grandma's kind of the best. It's actually, I
think being in a blended family the grandma that's not
the biological ties even better because I just get to
(24:32):
truly show up and play with the baby. But I
have no baggage, Like however they raise this baby.
Speaker 1 (24:38):
It has nothing to do with you, to do with me.
Speaker 4 (24:41):
It's not reflective of anything I did. It doesn't feel
like a rejection of my parenting. And I actually kind
of jive with a lot of what they're doing anyway,
which is great.
Speaker 3 (24:50):
But even if I didn't, I'd be like, eh, whatever,
it's their life, so do they do that.
Speaker 4 (24:53):
They do them, and I just get to show up
and play and it's lovely. Oh my gosh, she's talking now.
We decided he's going to call me Meme because I
kind of wanted a cute grandma name. And yeah, yeah,
he's already got two grandma's and two grandpa's, so it's like,
all right, well, who can I be this a little
bit different?
Speaker 3 (25:10):
And I just decided.
Speaker 4 (25:12):
I looked it up and it said it's a fun,
loving and sessey grandma name or something, and I thought, oh,
I like that, Let's just do it.
Speaker 1 (25:19):
Maybe I'll go for there. Maybe that'll be my grandma name. Someday.
We'll see to think about that.
Speaker 4 (25:23):
But you have some on ramp because they don't come
out talking, so you don't have.
Speaker 3 (25:26):
To worry about it for a little bit.
Speaker 1 (25:27):
To worry about that later. Yeah. All right, Well, we're
gonna take one more quick ad break and then I'll
be back with more from Megan Francis. Well, I am
back talking with Megan Francis, who is the author of
(25:48):
the brand new book The Last Parenting Book You'll Ever Read.
She's been talking about transitioning The Mom Hour out to
ending publication of that and launching her new podcast about
mid life Lady Pursuit. So I want to talk about
midlife lady pursuits. I think you have a phrase in
the book that creativity is the new fertility. Yes, what
(26:11):
is a midlife lady pleisure pursuit? How is this?
Speaker 4 (26:14):
Well, here's the thing, Sarah and I my co host Sarah,
we have a theory that in their forties, you know,
unless they have like a newborn in their forties, in
that case, you're probably pushing it off.
Speaker 1 (26:25):
Yeah, yeah, we had that for it. Yes, well, my
midlife lady pleleisher pursuits are gonna be a little bit lurterer.
Speaker 3 (26:31):
Yeah yeah, yeah.
Speaker 4 (26:31):
So at some point in midlife, all women either take
up yoga, start getting puppies, like fancy puppies, I chicken chickens.
Speaker 3 (26:42):
I've got those two.
Speaker 4 (26:44):
They get really into something, right, they garden, We could
think of the watercolor painting whatever. We could think of
a million stereotypes and they're kind of true. And a
lot of that is because we now have our hands free,
we have the ability to dabble again. All of that
heart not that we're not still career building, but it
doesn't have that say, I don't know. I can't speak
(27:06):
for you, Laura, but for me, the energy I had
behind building a career, say twenty years ago or even
ten years ago, it's a very different energy now, I
would say now it's more like a sustained yet like
restrained energy. Maybe that's the right way to put it,
Like I'm going to try this. I'm going to see
(27:26):
if it works. If it doesn't, great, I still want.
Speaker 3 (27:29):
To be productive. I still want to be doing things.
Speaker 4 (27:31):
I love to work, but I don't feel that burn
to make a mark anymore that I once did. And
so it's lovely. It opens up a lot of mental
space and the ability to kind of take a step
back and say, like, how do I want to spend
the next two three four decades of my life? What
(27:51):
do I want to try that I haven't gotten around to,
Maybe because my kids were too little, Maybe because I
thought it was sort of frivolous and dumb, and like,
why there's so much talk right now about nervous systems.
I'm not a wellness buru. I don't know, but I
do sometimes look back and think, Man, I put my
nervous system through a lot when I had so many
little kids, and I was trying to do so much,
(28:14):
so intensely, and I just don't want to.
Speaker 3 (28:17):
Do that right now. I want some leisure pursuits.
Speaker 4 (28:20):
So for me that yes, I have chickens, and I
talk to my chickens and I call them my little babies.
Speaker 3 (28:27):
And I don't cuddle them. They're not cuddle chickens. Sit
in pan.
Speaker 4 (28:30):
They didn't touch them in lovely chickens. No, I didn't
touch them enough when they were babies. But that, for me,
is a leisure pursuit. Writing in some ways, even though
it's been a career for so long, can become a
leisure pursuit if I come at it with that mindset.
I took up embroidery. I love embroidering, like using my hands.
I'm making sour dough bread, I make yogurt and cheese.
Speaker 1 (28:53):
I feel like I know it's all one baby cliche.
Speaker 4 (28:56):
I know I am the cliche. But cliches are there
for a reason.
Speaker 3 (29:00):
Right.
Speaker 1 (29:01):
Well, let's say somebody doesn't know what part of the
cliche they want to be. Yah, how does one go
about figuring this out?
Speaker 4 (29:07):
I think you have to just try things on. And
for me, it really felt like going back to before
I had kids. And sometimes it's hard before you were
a teenager too, because teenager kind of throws you into
a you're not quite yourself, you know what I mean?
Like during that time of life, for me, it was
like going back to being eight years old and thinking
(29:29):
what gave me pleasure? What was I fascinated by. I
remember my mom had all these embroidered pillowcases and I
would just run my finger along the embroidery, and I
was so fascinated. I was never quite as fascinated by
the way with knitted things, which probably explains why knitting
I'm like, eh, you know, I'd like to take it
up at some point just to see if I could
(29:50):
do it. But I wasn't, as I guess, enamored with
that as I was decorative stitches. And so what does
that tell me about how I might want to spend
my time now? Same thing with when I used to
make art. Before I thought I was bad at making art.
I used to love to paint and put paint on paper,
and then I got the idea, wasn't any good at it?
Speaker 1 (30:10):
Now?
Speaker 3 (30:10):
Was I good at it?
Speaker 4 (30:11):
No? I'm not good at it, but it doesn't matter.
I'm not doing it to be good at it. I'm
not trying to build a side hustle. It's just leisure.
It's a way to use my hands and chill my
brain out a little bit and create in a way
that doesn't have a lot of strings attached.
Speaker 1 (30:26):
Yeah, when you shift to this moment of trying to
fill time, yeah, as opposed to constantly grasping.
Speaker 4 (30:33):
At Absolutely there is something to that idea of like, wow,
I have time, and I could stare at a screen,
or I could try to cook up another business idea,
which I'm too good at.
Speaker 3 (30:44):
I need less of that in my life sometimes.
Speaker 4 (30:47):
Or you know, I could just sit here and like
while away an hour just because I want to, just
because I could just be. And that was a hard
place for me to get to, you know, as a
mom of many, many kids and doing all these other things,
and especially working from home, Like you don't look at
time as something that is abundant. Often you look at
(31:08):
it as things you break down into small chunks. I
remember when I had lists all over my office of
things I could do in five minutes, ten minutes, fifteen minutes,
because then if I found myself with five minutes, I'd
be like, ooh, what can I do?
Speaker 3 (31:22):
Okay, jump into that.
Speaker 4 (31:23):
Now I've already used up ten seconds, so I've only
got four minutes and fifty seconds now. I don't have
to think like that really hardly ever, And it's quite lovely.
Speaker 1 (31:32):
Actually, it's a different world entirely exactly exactly. Although I've
been pondering with figuring out how to incorporate older children
into things right like that, It'd be great if somebody
wanted to travel with you, but you don't know that
they'd be available. I mean, I guess you just have
to be a little bit more flexible with the planning
(31:52):
on things like that.
Speaker 4 (31:54):
Yeah, I actually was just thinking about that because I
feel like with my older sons, not my oldest, but
my second and third, I feel like I sort of
missed a window. There was a lot of chaos happening
when they were of the age where we might have
gotten some time to do things like that. And I think, gosh,
it would be really nice to go someplace with them individually,
(32:15):
each each kid, and get that alone time that I
really didn't get. But they're going to have to kind
of direct that I think, and that's hard. Like I
would like to say, hey, let's pick a week and
let's do this in this and they've got their own
they're doing the young twenties thing, and that might not
work with their work schedule or their school schedule, or
(32:35):
their life or their girlfriends or whatever, like whatever they're doing.
So I think I have to kind of hold on
to those goals. I once like those ideals just with
a loose script because some of them might not happen.
And when you're the manager of your home, it's up
to you if it happens, and you're good at making
stuff happen, Laura, So like it's really hard to let
(32:57):
go when you're like, now it's I can't make them
show up for this. I can't make them care. They
don't live here anymore, so they get to decide, and
that is emotionally. That's been a little bit tough for
me at the holidays, especially like that every Christmas for
the last three or four years, I've thought, is this
it is this the last one where we all show
up because next year someone might be in a different
(33:18):
country or have a significant other and decide they don't
want to come home.
Speaker 3 (33:23):
And any Christmas.
Speaker 1 (33:24):
It could be any Christmas, it could be one anyone
exactly exactly. Well, so Megan, we always end with a
love of the week. Okay, So I mean I could
go first, Well, what I would say? I really like
the small world of writing? Because guys, I got it.
You know. I have an advanced copy of Megan's book
(33:47):
and the three blurbs on the cover are like all
from friends with mine and I'm like, hey, I like
we could. We should have a party for all these people.
Speaker 3 (33:56):
Let's do it.
Speaker 1 (33:57):
I like that idea. How about you? What's good for
you this week?
Speaker 3 (34:03):
Well?
Speaker 4 (34:03):
I have to tell you I have been using my
library a lot lately, and we're recording this a little
bit ahead of time, and I actually just wrote a
blog post about how much I love my library, so
I'm kind of in that mental mode. But one of
the reasons I love it is that I decided that
I'm gonna have a different attitude about paying fines. I
am now going to pay my library fine with a
(34:24):
smile on my face because they support the library, and
it's like a rental. It's like, I like this book
so much I couldn't return it in time. So there
you go, Yes, there you go.
Speaker 1 (34:34):
They're usually not too terrible in terms.
Speaker 3 (34:37):
Of well, I mean there have been times that might
have gotten since like.
Speaker 1 (34:41):
Nineteen eighty yeah yeah yeah, or.
Speaker 4 (34:43):
You have a whole bunch of kids at home who've
hoarded books and then you lost til I've been there,
but I'm not there anymore.
Speaker 3 (34:48):
Different stage of life.
Speaker 1 (34:49):
So different stage okay, good good, I love it. Well.
The library it's a good midlife lady pursuer as well.
It's spending time there. I love my library as well well. Meggan,
thank you so much for joining us. Where can people
find you? So?
Speaker 4 (35:01):
The best place to find me probably these days is substack.
I'm really not doing social media hardly at all right now.
I mean I'm doing a little bit more for the
book launch because you kind of have to, but you
have to.
Speaker 3 (35:11):
I'm not there very much.
Speaker 4 (35:12):
So if you want to find me, I have a
podcast and a substack, like a written substack. It's at
Meganfrancis dot substack dot com. And that's Megan with two
a's M E A T G A N not the first.
There is an e in there too, right right, Megan? No,
actually I do again, I too think that is one
of the many spellings of Megan, but mine's m e
(35:33):
ah g A nh N.
Speaker 1 (35:36):
Got it, got it all right, Megan, thank you so
much for joining us.
Speaker 3 (35:39):
Thanks Laura, this has been fun.
Speaker 2 (35:40):
All right, we are back always fun hearing from Megan.
So our question comes from a listener who would like
to know what life skills should kids know as they
head off for college. Laura, is that something you've started
to think about?
Speaker 1 (35:53):
I definitely have. There's been a couple of fascinating books
about this over the last few years, about you know,
adulting and sort of the skills somebody life skills people need,
and I think all of those are probably good to
like look through, because there's definite blind spots for anything.
I mean, just like life things you don't know, like
that you should have some cash in a hotel to
(36:16):
leave as a tip in the room, like good people
know that. I don't know. That's not the kind of
thing that like, you know, spring from the womb knowing,
and especially in our world where we people don't even
use that much cash anymore, it's the kind of thing
that somebody wouldn't think about. So I, you know, was
sending my boys off to a competition where they were
staying in a hotel rooms. I was like thinking about that.
I like, oh, yeah, usually I should take this because
(36:36):
that's an expectation. But we're probably like, okay, basic laundry, right,
doing your own laundry, I think in such a way
that it will not ruin your clothes. So I guess
the basic skills involved in that. Some cooking. I mean,
even if people are mostly in a cafeteria for the
first year or two, it might be helpful at least know,
(36:56):
like you know that down the dorm kitchen, like you
can make yourself some mac and chooes if you want.
But also basic nutrition, like that you can't just eat
cereal from the cafeteria and expect it to work. I
mean maybe maybe for some people, or you're gonna wind
up like with scurvy or something.
Speaker 2 (37:16):
I think Josh talked about how like he used to
live on just like spaghetti, sauce and spaghetti, like no protein,
no nothing. I'm like, after a certain point, you just
start to not feel good.
Speaker 1 (37:26):
I think, yeah, one would think I mean that you're
like digesticist. I assure people have like horrible you know,
constipation or something. Eventually you learn you learn, but hopefully
they don't always have to learn through harsh trial and error.
Let's see what else, Okay, basic planning and scheduling, I mean, Sarah,
maybe this is something we should put together, like basic
(37:48):
young adult how to schedule your life kind of thing.
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (37:53):
Yeah, that would actually be really fun to put together,
like planning for I mean, Annabelle has talked about having
her own plan podcasts. I don't know where is she
going to come up with that.
Speaker 1 (38:02):
Idea, but yeah, who knows.
Speaker 2 (38:04):
Yeah, No, I do feel like some basics are needed,
although I think as these productivity techniques kind of enter
like the social media's like guyst maybe they've been exposed
to more of them, like I feel like TikTok and
god knows what. But you're right some of them probably
have blind spots there. And you mentioned financial I could
use that big time when I headed to college.
Speaker 1 (38:24):
Yeah. Well, even if you plan to be paying most
of the bills for a kid in their first few years,
but there's probably some amount that you're planning on providing them,
like per month or per week or whatever it is,
and so then they need to think about how to
make that cover the things that they will have, you
(38:44):
know that, Like if I'm going to need to buy
both books and food out of this, maybe I shouldn't
like go out for a huge dinner like right after
getting it. If my parents are not like incredibly amenable
to the idea of like giving me more just because
I ran through it, So that would be something to
talk about. It's even just like how to pay right,
like the mechanics of paying at a restaurant, paying for
(39:09):
gas in a car, paying for bus fairs, for instance,
Like there's often ways to think that. You know, they're
smart kids. Obviously they'll probably figure it out, but it
might help to have a little bit of discussion on it.
And then basic health like Sarah used send kids who
often have chronic conditions off on their own, Like how
do you even approach that?
Speaker 2 (39:29):
Yeah, we definitely like make a point to discuss that.
Like I feel like I have a whole like going
to college speech for my type one diabetes patients because
it's like, you need to have your supplies, this is
what alcohol will do to you, and this is how
to be safe and like all kinds of stuff, and
I think it's, yeah, it's important for teens to have
a plan of like how to access their medical record
(39:50):
and be connected to the like online portals so that
they could contact their doctor for something, or to make
sure they're sharing the access with their parents now that
they're not a minor, to know how they're going to
be getting their prescriptions up in college. Do you know
what to do in an emergency or like what an emergency?
Speaker 1 (40:05):
Actually it is an emergency?
Speaker 2 (40:06):
Yeah, yes, Like you want to teach them about what
men and you don't want to scare them, but like, okay,
bad neck pain and high fever, like you go to.
Speaker 1 (40:14):
The er, but even that you have a fever, Like
how do they know that they have a fever? Right? Like?
How many kids are walking around with a thermometer? So
you have to like say, do you have a thermometer
like a first aid kit or something with you like
that that might be something to check. You know, I'm
not sure that my kids have ever on their own
taken their temperature, so totally. Yeah, many life skills to concern.
(40:35):
So anyway, we're really in this with you right now.
We're figuring though, So if listeners who do have older
children who have launched children have anything to add to
this list, please send it to us, we will share
it as well. But yeah, so we've been talking with
Megan Francis on the last parenting book You'll ever read.
(40:55):
We will be back next week with more on making
work and life fit together.
Speaker 2 (41:00):
Thanks for listening. You can find me Sarah at the
shoebox dot com or at the Underscore Shoebox on Instagram,
and you can.
Speaker 1 (41:08):
Find me Laura at Laura vandercam dot com. This has
been the best of both worlds podcasts. Please join us
next time for more on making work and life work together.
Hi. I'm Laura Vanderkamp. I'm a mother of five, an author, journalist,
and speaker.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
And I'm Sarah hart Hunger, a mother of three, practicing physician, writer,
and course creator. We are two working parents who love
our careers and our families.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
Welcome to best of both worlds. Here we talk about
how real women manage work, family, and time for fun.
From figuring out childcare to mapping out long term career goals.
We want you to get the most out of life.
Welcome to best of both worlds. This is Laura. This
episode is airing in early to mid May of twenty
(00:46):
twenty five. I am going to be interviewing Megan Francis.
She is the author of the new book, The Last
Parenting Book You'll Ever Read. We also know her for
as a longtime host of The Mom Hour, which is ending,
but they are launching a new podcast about midlife lady pursuits,
which is certainly a topic we cover in the interviews. So, Sarah,
(01:08):
you are a longtime listener of The Mom Hour.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
Correct, Yes, many many years of listening to Megan and
Sarah talk about parenting and all kind of parenting adjacent topics.
Speaker 3 (01:18):
So when they.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
Announced that their podcast was coming to a close. I
was so sad, but then immediately thrilled that they're going
to be coming up with a kind of new one
with new life, so exciting.
Speaker 1 (01:28):
Well, they sort of realized that their kids had aged
out of this time, you know that people were coming
to the mom Hour, I think as she talked about
expecting to hear about like baby products, like what's new
in this and all that, and it's just they're not
in that mind space anymore, and they wanted to just
make a clean break and start something new, which I get.
But Megan's book is all about, you know, when your
(01:49):
kids get older and they're launching out into the real
world and sort of the emptying nest and how that
goes as a parenting phase and also is figuring out
who you are in the absence of sort of these
day caretaking responsibilities. So it's it's a phrase. I'm starting
to enter it. I've got a while to go because
I still have a five year old.
Speaker 2 (02:07):
But your nests, well you can take the part of
the advice about the like launching part and yeah, your
nest isn't gonna be empty, tell after mine's empty.
Speaker 1 (02:14):
Sorry, you got a while nah. Yeah, Well, Sarah, do
you have any midlife lady leisure pursuits.
Speaker 2 (02:20):
I'm really like in the market for some because running
was my big midlife lady pursuit. I mean, I it
was so fun and it took up a lot of
mental even when it wasn't running, I was like thinking
on running, like the following running, but I had.
Speaker 1 (02:32):
A whole thing with it, like you were buying the
shoes and you were listening to the running podcasts and
all that.
Speaker 2 (02:36):
Yes, yeah, yeah, so I feel like I'm actively looking
for some subs. I do feel like I could be
a yoga lady, like that could be part of it,
But then I also want something that's not physical specifically.
Speaker 1 (02:47):
Okay, I kind.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
Of like feel like cooking might be a thing maybe,
but like.
Speaker 1 (02:53):
How would you make that sort of hobbyish versus like
I need to cook dinner for my family.
Speaker 2 (02:57):
Yeah, so I thought about maybe like cooking through a
cookbook again, which is something I've done before, and choosing
one that's kind of like has a cooking school feel
to it, like how to make the perfect egg, how
to make this. Now I wouldn't be able to do
this every night, but it could be like a fun
weekend activity that I like look forward to during the
week and like maybe read about the techniques and then
I like do them.
Speaker 1 (03:14):
So yeah, have you ever thought about actually taking like
an in person cooking class or something.
Speaker 2 (03:20):
I might, but I don't like to leave the house
at night very often.
Speaker 4 (03:23):
I know.
Speaker 1 (03:24):
But if it's a weekend activity already, I mean, then
it could be a Saturday afternoon sort of thing, right,
It's true, Okay, I wouldn't rule it out. Yeah, all right,
what about you? Well, I guess singing is sort of
my midlife lady leisure pursuit. You know. I'm now into
two choirs. This is sort of humorous because many years ago,
when I first moved to New York City, I was
like in three choirs right when I was just on
(03:45):
my own and like self employed, so I wasn't seeing
people like during the day, and so I wound up
joining three choirs to have things to get me out
of the house at night, and then slowly that dwindled
down to one. After I got married and started a family.
Sang in the Young New Yorker's Chorus for many years,
and then we left New York and I was not
there for a while, and then I started up singing
(04:07):
with my church choir here in Pennsylvania about almost eight
years ago, and it was great. I enjoyed it. I'm
still doing that and I've gotten to Jasper join us
for some of our singing, which has been fun as well.
But then I also was like, well, you know, I
could do more, and I sang with a different choir
(04:28):
to do the B Minor Mass over the holidays this
year as something off my bucket list, and I was like, well,
my fun to keep singing with them. So I happened.
So now I'm back into two choirs and so that's
my Monday and Thursday nights now. But I think I
do think there's one of her, like midlife lady leisure
pursuit things is like a lot of it's kind of
tinkering or like fitting in spaces of time, and so
(04:51):
I've been pondering with that. I mean, maybe my puzzles
are that. Do you think that counts?
Speaker 2 (04:55):
I think that counts, especially if they're I mean, the
only thing with puzzles is it's not really like a
lot of growth element unless you're doing harder and harder
puzzles or something.
Speaker 1 (05:06):
Maybe because there needs to be a growth element. I
can't just like maybe there doesn't bread and let it
go and like enjoy the bread and then keep making it.
I don't know that there's growth in everything. I don't know.
Speaker 2 (05:16):
I really growth appeals to me a lot, even if
it's like really minor growth, like oh, I'll learn one
new yoga pose, or like I'll learn a cooking technique
I didn't know before. Like it doesn't have to be
fancy growth or like winning. I do you feel like
there's some sort of like progression that makes hobbies more
fun for me? But maybe that's a mean thing.
Speaker 1 (05:35):
Well, I would say there probably has been some progression
on the puzzle front. I can tell you I'm better
at them than people who've like never done puzzles before.
Like they're picking up and like what do I do
with this piece? Is like I mean I cannot do
quickly like I know how, I have a strategy. Oh
so then I think, yeah, I think it totally counts. Yeah, okay,
all right, I can not.
Speaker 2 (05:52):
Even do a twenty piece puzzle while you did like
a five hundred piece puzzle.
Speaker 1 (05:55):
Like I'm not kidding, there is a certain but yeah, yeah, okay,
Well then there we go. Although I don't like to
come up with ones that are too challenging because then
it is kind of my late night brainless sort of thing.
So yeah, there are some that's like all blue, and
I'm like, no, no, no, I will not be doing that.
I need lots of kitschy art in.
Speaker 2 (06:18):
It to make it to a blue puzzle that's like
all punishment is a punishment.
Speaker 1 (06:21):
I wouldn't want to do that. All right, Well, let's
se what Megan Francis has to say. Well, Sarah and
I are delighted to welcome Megan Francis to the show.
So Megan, introduce yourself to our listeners.
Speaker 4 (06:34):
Hello, Hello, So yeah, I'm Megan Francis. I'm a mom
of five. I'm a podcaster co host of the mom
Our podcast. We've been in production for ten years, and
I know that we've done some cross interviews with you guys.
I can't remember which group of us was on which show.
I feel like you were on The mom Hour with
me and Sarah, my co host, was on Best of
(06:55):
Both Worlds with yours Sarah.
Speaker 1 (06:57):
That is quite possible, Okay, I'd have to look through
the archive.
Speaker 4 (07:01):
I and you and I go way back in the
world of freelance writing. I've been a parenting writer primarily
for gosh, over twenty years now.
Speaker 3 (07:10):
So yeah, we go way back.
Speaker 4 (07:12):
And I have a lot going on in my life
where my kids are getting older. I got a divorce,
I got remarried, I now have step children, I have
a step grand baby, Laura.
Speaker 1 (07:22):
I'm in that world something.
Speaker 4 (07:24):
It's something, so yeah, that's kind of me in a nutshell.
I live here in Michigan and I'm always loving to
I don't know, just be trying new things.
Speaker 1 (07:34):
Yeah. Yeah, And Megan has a brand new book called
The Last Parenting Book You'll Ever Read, which is a
wonderful title, by the way. And you said you didn't
really want to write another parenting book, and yes, here
you are. Yes, So what happened what led you to this? Well,
you know how.
Speaker 4 (07:51):
Kids get senior writis And I know this because I
went through this last year. My fourth son was a
high school senior and I feel like he has the
worst scenior writers I've ever seen.
Speaker 3 (08:01):
And he was a very good student. And at some
point I.
Speaker 4 (08:03):
Thought, oh, this is just like how I feel about
writing about parenting. Like I'm ready. It's been a great run.
I'm ready to be done. Can we just move on?
So I actually had a book proposal all about midlife
and kind of like mid life reinvention, and I was
pitching that and my agent, you know, kept getting rejected.
(08:25):
And my agent said, I hate to be like this,
but don't you think you have something to say about
parenting in this stage? I was like, yeah, but I
don't want to, you know. It was kind of like
a little bit of resistance to revisiting themes that I've
been talking about now for so long on the podcast
and for so long in other writing I've done, which
(08:46):
has included other parenting books, that I thought, do I
have anything left to say? Is there really do I
even want to even inhabit this time of my life
or do I just want to jump forward? And I
think what I decided is that I don't get to
jump forward, like I'm still in it. My daughter, who's
the last kid in my house, she's a sophomore. I'm
still very much in it for the next two and
(09:07):
a half three years with a kid in the house,
and I am living this right now.
Speaker 3 (09:11):
I don't just get to jump to the next thing.
Speaker 4 (09:14):
I actually have a lot to say about the transition
that I'm in.
Speaker 3 (09:17):
So I got over it.
Speaker 4 (09:19):
I had an attitude adjustment once I decided that for me,
it wouldn't be meaningful to write about midlife if I
didn't include the transition of my motherhood story as part
of it, which has been such a big part of
my life. In your life and the content we create
in all of.
Speaker 1 (09:34):
That, Yeah, so I think you called it lame duck parenting.
At some point, it's like the last year of a
presidential administration, Like you know it's going to be over,
but you still have to run things.
Speaker 4 (09:44):
You're still do run things, and nobody cares that you're
there anymore. That's how it feels like. My kids are
just they don't know what they don't know about life.
They have no idea how dumb they are about life
right now, and it's my job to help them figure
it out while also help them feel like they're the
ones figuring it out, do you know what I mean,
Like to help them feel a little smarter than they
(10:04):
actually are.
Speaker 1 (10:06):
YEA, Yeah, Well, a lot of random texts about like
things that maybe should be obvious or should not be obvious,
like how do I pay at the dentist's office. I
believe that was one of the ones you got.
Speaker 4 (10:15):
Yes, yes, yes, like so many random texts and questions,
and in some ways it's flattering. I'm like, wow, you
really I'm still the center of your world in a way.
You really still think of me as this person who
knows everything? And then I'll think, is it possible that
I just missed an opportunity to teach you this? But actually,
look back at your life when you were eighteen or nineteen,
(10:36):
you didn't know anything. I didn't know anything at eighteen
or nineteen. I just I conveniently forget how much my
parents were still guiding me through things at that stage.
Speaker 1 (10:46):
To a degree. I mean, although we couldn't reach able
as easily.
Speaker 3 (10:49):
It's very very true. So I guess they just went
undone a lot of the time.
Speaker 1 (10:53):
So if you had a question in the dentist office,
you were kind of stuck.
Speaker 3 (10:56):
That is very true.
Speaker 1 (10:57):
Unless the receptionist was going to call your mom, which
seemed probably.
Speaker 3 (11:01):
A little talk. Then I know, no, they probably would.
Speaker 4 (11:04):
Honestly, they probably would be like, wait, why are you
here without your mommy?
Speaker 3 (11:08):
You're only twenty Yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:10):
Exactly exactly. It does stretch out the growing up process
a little bit. But you know you have to grow
and change too. I think you talk a little bit
in the book about rewriting some of that mom muscle memory. Yeah, right,
Like there are various things you discover are have changed
just because life has changed. I mean, even like going
to the mall.
Speaker 4 (11:29):
Right, yeah, the example I gave of going to the
mall was like something I thought was fun until my
second child was like old enough to climb out of
the stroller. And then by the time I had the third, no,
thank you, I do not want to shop recreationally ever again.
And so I didn't darken the doors of the mall
for a really long time. And then a couple of
years ago, when I just was down to two kids
(11:51):
in the house and one was in driver's training and
I was having to let him drive me about the
countryside as it goes, he said, well, let's go to
the mall. And I was like, oh, the mall. And
then I thought, well, wait, this is great. I have
two teenagers, they can just go do whatever. I can
hang out in Barnes and Noble and get a pretzel.
Speaker 3 (12:12):
Nothing could be better.
Speaker 4 (12:13):
But in my mind I still had that like the
back of my neck tensed up because I thought, oh,
this is going to be awful. There's going to be
you know, a three year old running around and bumping
into the mannequins and feeling them up and stuff. And
none of that happened because I don't have a three
year old anymore. Dinner time, getting dinner on the table
is not a hassle anymore. It's a pleasure now. And
I've had to sort of rewire the way I approached
(12:37):
things that once would have been really stressful or hard
or impossible to say.
Speaker 3 (12:41):
Like, what's possible now? What's actually stressful?
Speaker 1 (12:43):
Now?
Speaker 4 (12:43):
Some of these things that I just think are stressful aren't.
And yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:48):
Although it's funny, I think about this with larger families
and having a lot of kids, because your older two
kids got to go to the mall, and now your
younger two kids got to go to the mall. Number three,
I guess just is at the parenting experience where there
was no.
Speaker 4 (12:59):
Mall, no pictures, you know, poor kid. He also was
my middle was at the time when digital photography was
becoming in but it was awful.
Speaker 1 (13:09):
And yes, yes there's no pictures either. Pictures I have.
Speaker 3 (13:13):
So many photos of him.
Speaker 4 (13:14):
They're just lost of time, or they're just grainy, like
pixelated junk on a hard drive somewhere.
Speaker 3 (13:19):
So yeah, they just get it, don't they, or they
don't they.
Speaker 1 (13:22):
Do or they don't. Yeah, no, I know, I looked
at it. We have a bunch of printed photos of
my oldest because that was still when you were printing
up photos. And then of course the youngest has had
every day documented through you know iPhone that I still have, Yeah,
my iCloud photos that I could look at tomorrow or
today right in like two seconds. But yeah, the middle ones,
it's sort.
Speaker 3 (13:42):
Of like, oh, you know, we're here, right, I do,
we were here.
Speaker 1 (13:45):
I don't know the second one, in particular, there may
be very few photos of the babyhood, so yeah, no
reminding or even just how much stuff you buy in
the grocery store, right, yeah, Oh my gosh.
Speaker 3 (13:58):
I was just thinking about this the other day.
Speaker 4 (13:59):
I went to Aldie and I was in and out
in fifteen minutes, and I had an entire weeks with
the groceries that fit in one bag. And even I
think I mentioned this in the book, I even find
myself eyeballing the half loaves of bread, which I once
would have thought were like for senior citizens, you.
Speaker 3 (14:16):
Know, like people with low appetites.
Speaker 4 (14:19):
But now sometimes if I buy a whole loaf of
bread or a gallon of milk, it just sits there
and we really have to work hard to go through
the food that escalated and de escalated so quickly. It
was such a focus, and you're probably still really in
that like high calorie consumption, like the peak getting a
(14:40):
meal on the table, You're thinking mass, You're thinking what
quantities can I get? How do I cook many things
at once or batch? Because not because box and a
half apostas, iast like no normal portions ever going to
make it for your family, You're going to have to
double or triple. I remember really coveting like a double
wall of an plus arrange with the doublop, and I thought,
(15:02):
if I could just do that, then I could have
everything going at once that I could feed everyone. And
now it's like, oh, I really don't have to think
about food much at all. I'm kind of shifting to
where I want to because it's fun because I had
the time in the space to do it so differently
than I did, and that's been hard too. Because I
(15:22):
got a divorce eight years ago. So the year that
I got divorced, my oldest was just graduated from high
school and my youngest was seven. So suddenly the kids
were going to their dads every other week, and so
it was like every other week I still had to
be super on and cook huge meals, but then the
alternate week it was like me and leftovers from going
(15:43):
out to the restaurant, and so then it was like okay,
So finally got used to that, and then the kids
started leaving. But then they came back, Laura, because it
was COVID.
Speaker 3 (15:52):
They all came back. They all came back.
Speaker 1 (15:54):
It was like, I don't know what to do.
Speaker 4 (15:56):
I'm it's up, it's down, It's all over the place.
Now I'm on a definite down words swing though, where
you know, I'm coming into a busy time of my life.
And I told my daughter the other day, Clara, I'm
just gonna need you to just handle your own meals
for a while. So I put a list on the
instead of filling out the little meal thing that I
still have on the fridge, even though I don't really
(16:16):
need that anymore, kinds of comfort thing. It's like from
that younger stage of motherhood. Instead of filling that out
like I usually would, I just posted a little piece
of paper on the fridge that just said ideas for you,
because what I don't want is her coming to me and.
Speaker 3 (16:31):
Being like, let's see you for dinner.
Speaker 1 (16:33):
What should I make?
Speaker 3 (16:34):
I don't know.
Speaker 4 (16:34):
So I just have everything I think she can handle
more or less on her own, and I'm just like,
pick one, Just go pick one one.
Speaker 1 (16:41):
Yep, they can't feed them. So that's true. That's true. Well,
we're going to take a quick ad break and I
will be back with more from Megan Francis. Well, I
am back talking with Megan Francis, who is the author
(17:03):
of the new book, The Last Parenting Book You'll Ever
read for many years, Megan, you've also been running a podcast, yeah,
called The Mom Hour, and that is, you know, as
we're reinventing ourselves and transitioning, that is transitioning as well.
What's going on with that?
Speaker 4 (17:20):
Yeah, Well, sort of along the same lines of me
not wanting to write another book about parenting at some point.
Sarah and I have Sarah Powers as my co host.
She lives in California. I live in Michigan. So we've
been doing this long distance for a really long time,
and I have more older kids than her, but the
younger ones hers aren't that much further behind me.
Speaker 3 (17:40):
She's got her three or so into the roof.
Speaker 4 (17:42):
But teenagers an on their way onto whatever's next, and
the two of us now are on our way to
whatever's next. And I think what we kind of have
been circling around for a while is it's not just
that we don't want to make content that we would
have ten years ago that would appeal to young mom
of little kids. It's like, we can't. We don't have
(18:03):
our fingers on that pulse anymore. I don't know what
moms of new babies like, what strollers they're buying or what.
I kind of keep an eye on it, but sort
of in a in a way don't care anymore either,
which is a good sign it's time to move on.
So for a little while, the solution was sort of like, well,
on the podcast, let's just talk about that, Let's talk
about what this stage of parenting looks like, and talk
(18:25):
about our teens as much as we're comfortable talk about
how things are changing. And then you kind of run
out of things to say about that. I mean, you know,
as a podcaster sometimes you really have to dig deep
to find something fresh to talk about. And I think
where we finally wound up is someone had asked us
if we would do a podcast episode about things we
(18:47):
wish we had done differently with our teens, and I said,
I can't do that episode because A if I told
you the truth, then it would be very unhelpful, like
it would actually probably make people feel really bad. But
if I didn't tell the truth, I'd be lying, like
it wouldn't be real. And if I didn't tell you everything,
it would gloss over the hard stuff. So much about
parenting teenagers and then the shifting relationship into young adulthood
(19:11):
is not really about me or what I did or
didn't do, so there's no advice to give. Like I
did it, It's done, and do I wish I would
have done some things different, Sure, but I couldn't have
told you then what those things were. And some are
very surprising even to me now. And it's my kid's story,
so don't want to talk about it. And so I
think we finally came to a stage where we thought
it's just time to bring that to an end. So
(19:32):
that podcast is ten years old, turned ten last month
actually in March, and now we're going to be winding
it down and so at the end of June, which
kind of coincides with my book which is out in May,
it's going to be done, like we're ceasing publication. You'll
still be able to find the archives. We have hundreds
and hundreds of episodes, so that'll still be there indefinitely.
Speaker 3 (19:55):
But we just wanted to put kind.
Speaker 4 (19:58):
Of a clean cap on that and it, yeah, called
the mom Our. There's not really a lot of other
places we.
Speaker 1 (20:04):
Could go with.
Speaker 4 (20:05):
It's not the kind of thing where we could just
shift our focus. So we're starting a brand new podcast
called Midlife Lady Leisure Pursuits and that is going to
be all about the things that we like to do
as middle aged ladies.
Speaker 1 (20:19):
Awesome, and we're going to talk about that in a minute.
Good But I'm yeah, I'm kind of curious about this
because of course Sarah and I are thinking about this too.
Our youngest children are five and seven, so we still
have a fair we're still relevant, so fastic. Well yeah,
I mean, but this is the thing, I mean, and
certain we don't have babies or toddlers anymore, and a
(20:39):
lot of people find us they are like, it's recommended
that they listen to our show as they are going
back to work after maternity. Yes, right, And so we've
been pounder it like how do we keep serving up
relevant content for people in that stage of life?
Speaker 4 (20:57):
So I don't know, yeah, and I think with something
like best of both worlds, like there is a place
to take that into any stage that you're in. But
you're right, it's tricky when people find you, like on
a specific topic and that episode. We've had people email
us before and say, hey, I'm looking for this resource
or something you mentioned in episode one hundred and we're like,
I mean, we forgot about that episode seven years ago.
(21:19):
I don't even remember of the episode we recorded two
weeks ago, let alone that long ago. But people don't
know exactly where you are, and then they realize.
Speaker 3 (21:26):
Oh, this is really old content. It is really a
tricky thing.
Speaker 4 (21:31):
And sometimes I think a rebrand isn't necessary, but sometimes
it's helpful to like put a container around the thing
that was and start a brand new thing that can
be what you want us to be.
Speaker 1 (21:41):
So interesting, just something to think about, something to think
about or maybe we just have frequent guests with young
kids or figure that or that or that. Yeah, and
you know, you've also been reinventing yourself. I mean we
mentioned you got remarried, yeah, in twenty twenty three. I'm
very curious how being a midlife newlyywed is different from
being I mean, you were what like twenty.
Speaker 3 (21:59):
The first Yeah, Oh my gosh.
Speaker 4 (22:02):
Well, first of all, we're so much smarter when I
got married the first time around. And I think that's
true whether you get married for the first time when
you're twenty or thirty or you know, and wherever. I
just think there's so much you don't know about what
marriage is, and now we know those things. I think
the thing that has been most interesting that I didn't
(22:23):
really see coming as a challenge is that I got
really used to being alone, like living singly as a
grown up, a straight up grown up with grown children.
Speaker 3 (22:34):
I got really used to that.
Speaker 4 (22:35):
I got used to making all my own decisions about
how I was going to spend my money, or what
TV show I was going to watch or not watch,
like how I was going to decorate the living room,
whatever it was. It was all mine to decide for
kind of a long time. I was single for gosh,
I don't know I was. He and I have been
together for five years, but we just got married two
years ago, and I was divorced. I was probably like
(22:56):
totally on my own for six is years, and that
was just enough time to kind of dig in. So
another nice thing, though, is it's really fun because we're
on the other side of all that family building, life building,
career building.
Speaker 3 (23:09):
We're coasting now.
Speaker 4 (23:10):
We're not doing all that hardcore career building anymore. We're
not we're not raising a young family. So we have
a lot of leisure time and we have a lot
of time to just say, Okay, here's what we've done,
here's what we've built. Now what like, what does this
next stage of our lives look like? And we get
to do it together without that baggage from the past,
which is really nice and very lovely. So it's been
(23:31):
mostly mostly really positive, with a few times of me going,
oh my gosh, I need some space, like where do
I go?
Speaker 3 (23:37):
I got a room of my own?
Speaker 1 (23:39):
Well, and you get to try out the grandma life, right.
Speaker 3 (23:41):
Actually, yes, I have.
Speaker 4 (23:43):
So by the time Eric and I got married, his
son oldest son. He's got a son and a daughter.
The oldest had been remarried and then they had a baby,
like a few months after we got married. So I
get to be a grandma, which is I was not
ready for that.
Speaker 3 (24:00):
And now it could be like any of my older
kids could procreate at any moment.
Speaker 1 (24:05):
I mean, could happen.
Speaker 3 (24:07):
That would be surprising to me right now, but it
could happen.
Speaker 1 (24:10):
It could happen.
Speaker 4 (24:11):
But I just didn't see it coming quite so. Like
it was like a few months, you know, it was like, oh,
here I am marrying into this family where there's already
this baby on the way, and it's been lovely, Like
being at Grandma's kind of the best. It's actually, I
think being in a blended family the grandma that's not
the biological ties even better because I just get to
(24:32):
truly show up and play with the baby. But I
have no baggage, Like however they raise this baby.
Speaker 1 (24:38):
It has nothing to do with you, to do with me.
Speaker 4 (24:41):
It's not reflective of anything I did. It doesn't feel
like a rejection of my parenting. And I actually kind
of jive with a lot of what they're doing anyway,
which is great.
Speaker 3 (24:50):
But even if I didn't, I'd be like, eh, whatever,
it's their life, so do they do that.
Speaker 4 (24:53):
They do them, and I just get to show up
and play and it's lovely. Oh my gosh, she's talking now.
We decided he's going to call me Meme because I
kind of wanted a cute grandma name. And yeah, yeah,
he's already got two grandma's and two grandpa's, so it's like,
all right, well, who can I be this a little
bit different?
Speaker 3 (25:10):
And I just decided.
Speaker 4 (25:12):
I looked it up and it said it's a fun,
loving and sessey grandma name or something, and I thought, oh,
I like that, Let's just do it.
Speaker 1 (25:19):
Maybe I'll go for there. Maybe that'll be my grandma name. Someday.
We'll see to think about that.
Speaker 4 (25:23):
But you have some on ramp because they don't come
out talking, so you don't have.
Speaker 3 (25:26):
To worry about it for a little bit.
Speaker 1 (25:27):
To worry about that later. Yeah. All right, Well, we're
gonna take one more quick ad break and then I'll
be back with more from Megan Francis. Well, I am
back talking with Megan Francis, who is the author of
(25:48):
the brand new book The Last Parenting Book You'll Ever Read.
She's been talking about transitioning The Mom Hour out to
ending publication of that and launching her new podcast about
mid life Lady Pursuit. So I want to talk about
midlife lady pursuits. I think you have a phrase in
the book that creativity is the new fertility. Yes, what
(26:11):
is a midlife lady pleisure pursuit? How is this?
Speaker 4 (26:14):
Well, here's the thing, Sarah and I my co host Sarah,
we have a theory that in their forties, you know,
unless they have like a newborn in their forties, in
that case, you're probably pushing it off.
Speaker 1 (26:25):
Yeah, yeah, we had that for it. Yes, well, my
midlife lady pleleisher pursuits are gonna be a little bit lurterer.
Speaker 3 (26:31):
Yeah yeah, yeah.
Speaker 4 (26:31):
So at some point in midlife, all women either take
up yoga, start getting puppies, like fancy puppies, I chicken chickens.
Speaker 3 (26:42):
I've got those two.
Speaker 4 (26:44):
They get really into something, right, they garden, We could
think of the watercolor painting whatever. We could think of
a million stereotypes and they're kind of true. And a
lot of that is because we now have our hands free,
we have the ability to dabble again. All of that
heart not that we're not still career building, but it
doesn't have that say, I don't know. I can't speak
(27:06):
for you, Laura, but for me, the energy I had
behind building a career, say twenty years ago or even
ten years ago, it's a very different energy now, I
would say now it's more like a sustained yet like
restrained energy. Maybe that's the right way to put it,
Like I'm going to try this. I'm going to see
(27:26):
if it works. If it doesn't, great, I still want.
Speaker 3 (27:29):
To be productive. I still want to be doing things.
Speaker 4 (27:31):
I love to work, but I don't feel that burn
to make a mark anymore that I once did. And
so it's lovely. It opens up a lot of mental
space and the ability to kind of take a step
back and say, like, how do I want to spend
the next two three four decades of my life? What
(27:51):
do I want to try that I haven't gotten around to,
Maybe because my kids were too little, Maybe because I
thought it was sort of frivolous and dumb, and like,
why there's so much talk right now about nervous systems.
I'm not a wellness buru. I don't know, but I
do sometimes look back and think, Man, I put my
nervous system through a lot when I had so many
little kids, and I was trying to do so much,
(28:14):
so intensely, and I just don't want to.
Speaker 3 (28:17):
Do that right now. I want some leisure pursuits.
Speaker 4 (28:20):
So for me that yes, I have chickens, and I
talk to my chickens and I call them my little babies.
Speaker 3 (28:27):
And I don't cuddle them. They're not cuddle chickens. Sit
in pan.
Speaker 4 (28:30):
They didn't touch them in lovely chickens. No, I didn't
touch them enough when they were babies. But that, for me,
is a leisure pursuit. Writing in some ways, even though
it's been a career for so long, can become a
leisure pursuit if I come at it with that mindset.
I took up embroidery. I love embroidering, like using my hands.
I'm making sour dough bread, I make yogurt and cheese.
Speaker 1 (28:53):
I feel like I know it's all one baby cliche.
Speaker 4 (28:56):
I know I am the cliche. But cliches are there
for a reason.
Speaker 3 (29:00):
Right.
Speaker 1 (29:01):
Well, let's say somebody doesn't know what part of the
cliche they want to be. Yah, how does one go
about figuring this out?
Speaker 4 (29:07):
I think you have to just try things on. And
for me, it really felt like going back to before
I had kids. And sometimes it's hard before you were
a teenager too, because teenager kind of throws you into
a you're not quite yourself, you know what I mean?
Like during that time of life, for me, it was
like going back to being eight years old and thinking
(29:29):
what gave me pleasure? What was I fascinated by. I
remember my mom had all these embroidered pillowcases and I
would just run my finger along the embroidery, and I
was so fascinated. I was never quite as fascinated by
the way with knitted things, which probably explains why knitting
I'm like, eh, you know, I'd like to take it
up at some point just to see if I could
(29:50):
do it. But I wasn't, as I guess, enamored with
that as I was decorative stitches. And so what does
that tell me about how I might want to spend
my time now? Same thing with when I used to
make art. Before I thought I was bad at making art.
I used to love to paint and put paint on paper,
and then I got the idea, wasn't any good at it?
Speaker 1 (30:10):
Now?
Speaker 3 (30:10):
Was I good at it?
Speaker 4 (30:11):
No? I'm not good at it, but it doesn't matter.
I'm not doing it to be good at it. I'm
not trying to build a side hustle. It's just leisure.
It's a way to use my hands and chill my
brain out a little bit and create in a way
that doesn't have a lot of strings attached.
Speaker 1 (30:26):
Yeah, when you shift to this moment of trying to
fill time, yeah, as opposed to constantly grasping.
Speaker 4 (30:33):
At Absolutely there is something to that idea of like, wow,
I have time, and I could stare at a screen,
or I could try to cook up another business idea,
which I'm too good at.
Speaker 3 (30:44):
I need less of that in my life sometimes.
Speaker 4 (30:47):
Or you know, I could just sit here and like
while away an hour just because I want to, just
because I could just be. And that was a hard
place for me to get to, you know, as a
mom of many, many kids and doing all these other things,
and especially working from home, Like you don't look at
time as something that is abundant. Often you look at
(31:08):
it as things you break down into small chunks. I
remember when I had lists all over my office of
things I could do in five minutes, ten minutes, fifteen minutes,
because then if I found myself with five minutes, I'd
be like, ooh, what can I do?
Speaker 3 (31:22):
Okay, jump into that.
Speaker 4 (31:23):
Now I've already used up ten seconds, so I've only
got four minutes and fifty seconds now. I don't have
to think like that really hardly ever, And it's quite lovely.
Speaker 1 (31:32):
Actually, it's a different world entirely exactly exactly. Although I've
been pondering with figuring out how to incorporate older children
into things right like that, It'd be great if somebody
wanted to travel with you, but you don't know that
they'd be available. I mean, I guess you just have
to be a little bit more flexible with the planning
(31:52):
on things like that.
Speaker 4 (31:54):
Yeah, I actually was just thinking about that because I
feel like with my older sons, not my oldest, but
my second and third, I feel like I sort of
missed a window. There was a lot of chaos happening
when they were of the age where we might have
gotten some time to do things like that. And I think, gosh,
it would be really nice to go someplace with them individually,
(32:15):
each each kid, and get that alone time that I
really didn't get. But they're going to have to kind
of direct that I think, and that's hard. Like I
would like to say, hey, let's pick a week and
let's do this in this and they've got their own
they're doing the young twenties thing, and that might not
work with their work schedule or their school schedule, or
(32:35):
their life or their girlfriends or whatever, like whatever they're doing.
So I think I have to kind of hold on
to those goals. I once like those ideals just with
a loose script because some of them might not happen.
And when you're the manager of your home, it's up
to you if it happens, and you're good at making
stuff happen, Laura, So like it's really hard to let
(32:57):
go when you're like, now it's I can't make them
show up for this. I can't make them care. They
don't live here anymore, so they get to decide, and
that is emotionally. That's been a little bit tough for
me at the holidays, especially like that every Christmas for
the last three or four years, I've thought, is this
it is this the last one where we all show
up because next year someone might be in a different
(33:18):
country or have a significant other and decide they don't
want to come home.
Speaker 3 (33:23):
And any Christmas.
Speaker 1 (33:24):
It could be any Christmas, it could be one anyone
exactly exactly. Well, so Megan, we always end with a
love of the week. Okay, So I mean I could
go first, Well, what I would say? I really like
the small world of writing? Because guys, I got it.
You know. I have an advanced copy of Megan's book
(33:47):
and the three blurbs on the cover are like all
from friends with mine and I'm like, hey, I like
we could. We should have a party for all these people.
Speaker 3 (33:56):
Let's do it.
Speaker 1 (33:57):
I like that idea. How about you? What's good for
you this week?
Speaker 3 (34:03):
Well?
Speaker 4 (34:03):
I have to tell you I have been using my
library a lot lately, and we're recording this a little
bit ahead of time, and I actually just wrote a
blog post about how much I love my library, so
I'm kind of in that mental mode. But one of
the reasons I love it is that I decided that
I'm gonna have a different attitude about paying fines. I
am now going to pay my library fine with a
(34:24):
smile on my face because they support the library, and
it's like a rental. It's like, I like this book
so much I couldn't return it in time. So there
you go, Yes, there you go.
Speaker 1 (34:34):
They're usually not too terrible in terms.
Speaker 3 (34:37):
Of well, I mean there have been times that might
have gotten since like.
Speaker 1 (34:41):
Nineteen eighty yeah yeah yeah, or.
Speaker 4 (34:43):
You have a whole bunch of kids at home who've
hoarded books and then you lost til I've been there,
but I'm not there anymore.
Speaker 3 (34:48):
Different stage of life.
Speaker 1 (34:49):
So different stage okay, good good, I love it. Well.
The library it's a good midlife lady pursuer as well.
It's spending time there. I love my library as well well. Meggan,
thank you so much for joining us. Where can people
find you? So?
Speaker 4 (35:01):
The best place to find me probably these days is substack.
I'm really not doing social media hardly at all right now.
I mean I'm doing a little bit more for the
book launch because you kind of have to, but you
have to.
Speaker 3 (35:11):
I'm not there very much.
Speaker 4 (35:12):
So if you want to find me, I have a
podcast and a substack, like a written substack. It's at
Meganfrancis dot substack dot com. And that's Megan with two
a's M E A T G A N not the first.
There is an e in there too, right right, Megan? No,
actually I do again, I too think that is one
of the many spellings of Megan, but mine's m e
(35:33):
ah g A nh N.
Speaker 1 (35:36):
Got it, got it all right, Megan, thank you so
much for joining us.
Speaker 3 (35:39):
Thanks Laura, this has been fun.
Speaker 2 (35:40):
All right, we are back always fun hearing from Megan.
So our question comes from a listener who would like
to know what life skills should kids know as they
head off for college. Laura, is that something you've started
to think about?
Speaker 1 (35:53):
I definitely have. There's been a couple of fascinating books
about this over the last few years, about you know,
adulting and sort of the skills somebody life skills people need,
and I think all of those are probably good to
like look through, because there's definite blind spots for anything.
I mean, just like life things you don't know, like
that you should have some cash in a hotel to
(36:16):
leave as a tip in the room, like good people
know that. I don't know. That's not the kind of
thing that like, you know, spring from the womb knowing,
and especially in our world where we people don't even
use that much cash anymore, it's the kind of thing
that somebody wouldn't think about. So I, you know, was
sending my boys off to a competition where they were
staying in a hotel rooms. I was like thinking about that.
I like, oh, yeah, usually I should take this because
(36:36):
that's an expectation. But we're probably like, okay, basic laundry, right,
doing your own laundry, I think in such a way
that it will not ruin your clothes. So I guess
the basic skills involved in that. Some cooking. I mean,
even if people are mostly in a cafeteria for the
first year or two, it might be helpful at least know,
(36:56):
like you know that down the dorm kitchen, like you
can make yourself some mac and chooes if you want.
But also basic nutrition, like that you can't just eat
cereal from the cafeteria and expect it to work. I
mean maybe maybe for some people, or you're gonna wind
up like with scurvy or something.
Speaker 2 (37:16):
I think Josh talked about how like he used to
live on just like spaghetti, sauce and spaghetti, like no protein,
no nothing. I'm like, after a certain point, you just
start to not feel good.
Speaker 1 (37:26):
I think, yeah, one would think I mean that you're
like digesticist. I assure people have like horrible you know,
constipation or something. Eventually you learn you learn, but hopefully
they don't always have to learn through harsh trial and error.
Let's see what else, Okay, basic planning and scheduling, I mean, Sarah,
maybe this is something we should put together, like basic
(37:48):
young adult how to schedule your life kind of thing.
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (37:53):
Yeah, that would actually be really fun to put together,
like planning for I mean, Annabelle has talked about having
her own plan podcasts. I don't know where is she
going to come up with that.
Speaker 1 (38:02):
Idea, but yeah, who knows.
Speaker 2 (38:04):
Yeah, No, I do feel like some basics are needed,
although I think as these productivity techniques kind of enter
like the social media's like guyst maybe they've been exposed
to more of them, like I feel like TikTok and
god knows what. But you're right some of them probably
have blind spots there. And you mentioned financial I could
use that big time when I headed to college.
Speaker 1 (38:24):
Yeah. Well, even if you plan to be paying most
of the bills for a kid in their first few years,
but there's probably some amount that you're planning on providing them,
like per month or per week or whatever it is,
and so then they need to think about how to
make that cover the things that they will have, you
(38:44):
know that, Like if I'm going to need to buy
both books and food out of this, maybe I shouldn't
like go out for a huge dinner like right after
getting it. If my parents are not like incredibly amenable
to the idea of like giving me more just because
I ran through it, So that would be something to
talk about. It's even just like how to pay right,
like the mechanics of paying at a restaurant, paying for
(39:09):
gas in a car, paying for bus fairs, for instance,
Like there's often ways to think that. You know, they're
smart kids. Obviously they'll probably figure it out, but it
might help to have a little bit of discussion on it.
And then basic health like Sarah used send kids who
often have chronic conditions off on their own, Like how
do you even approach that?
Speaker 2 (39:29):
Yeah, we definitely like make a point to discuss that.
Like I feel like I have a whole like going
to college speech for my type one diabetes patients because
it's like, you need to have your supplies, this is
what alcohol will do to you, and this is how
to be safe and like all kinds of stuff, and
I think it's, yeah, it's important for teens to have
a plan of like how to access their medical record
(39:50):
and be connected to the like online portals so that
they could contact their doctor for something, or to make
sure they're sharing the access with their parents now that
they're not a minor, to know how they're going to
be getting their prescriptions up in college. Do you know
what to do in an emergency or like what an emergency?
Speaker 1 (40:05):
Actually it is an emergency?
Speaker 2 (40:06):
Yeah, yes, Like you want to teach them about what
men and you don't want to scare them, but like, okay,
bad neck pain and high fever, like you go to.
Speaker 1 (40:14):
The er, but even that you have a fever, Like
how do they know that they have a fever? Right? Like?
How many kids are walking around with a thermometer? So
you have to like say, do you have a thermometer
like a first aid kit or something with you like
that that might be something to check. You know, I'm
not sure that my kids have ever on their own
taken their temperature, so totally. Yeah, many life skills to concern.
(40:35):
So anyway, we're really in this with you right now.
We're figuring though, So if listeners who do have older
children who have launched children have anything to add to
this list, please send it to us, we will share
it as well. But yeah, so we've been talking with
Megan Francis on the last parenting book You'll ever read.
(40:55):
We will be back next week with more on making
work and life fit together.
Speaker 2 (41:00):
Thanks for listening. You can find me Sarah at the
shoebox dot com or at the Underscore Shoebox on Instagram,
and you can.
Speaker 1 (41:08):
Find me Laura at Laura vandercam dot com. This has
been the best of both worlds podcasts. Please join us
next time for more on making work and life work together.
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