April 22, 2025 • 40 mins
Author and designer Whitney English chats with Laura in this episode about organizing and decorating, which she recommends always doing in that order! First, Sarah and Laura chat about Whitney's planner creations, and delve into their own organizing projects. In the Q&A segment, a listener writes in asking for bathing suit recommendations!
Whitney's book Organize First, Decorate Second: How to Go from Clutter to Creativity is out April 29th.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
Hi.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
I'm Laura Vanderkamp. I'm a mother of five, an author, journalist,
and speaker.
Speaker 3 (00:15):
And I'm Sarah Hart Hunger, a mother of three, practicing physician,
writer and course creator. We are two working parents who
love our careers and our families.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Welcome to best of both worlds. Here we talk about
how real women manage work, family, and time for fun.
From figuring out childcare to mapping out long.
Speaker 1 (00:33):
Term career goals.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
We want you to get the most out of life.
Speaker 1 (00:41):
Welcome to best of both worlds. This is Laura.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
This episode is airing in mid to late April of
twenty twenty five. I am going to be interviewing Whitney English,
who is an entrepreneur an author. She has a brand
new book coming out later this month called Organized First,
Decorate Second. That's obviously a certain worldview that I guess
she wants us to follow there. So we're very excited
(01:03):
to have Whitney on the show.
Speaker 3 (01:05):
I'm very excited for you to talk to her, just
because I've known her name for so long. She created
the day Designer and then she pivoted to her own
line of planners, and you used one for a while,
So did you guys talk about that at all.
Speaker 2 (01:18):
Well, we didn't really talk about it that much because
it planners was not the major.
Speaker 1 (01:22):
Focus of our time.
Speaker 2 (01:24):
We've been talking more like organizing and spring cleaning and
things like that. But yeah, I was introduced to the
Whitney English line of products because I was a guest
on a certain show called Best Laid Plans many years ago,
when Sarah was doing her planner matchmaking. Do you remember that,
I should do it again? Yeah, Well, she matched me
up with a Whitney English week on a page I
(01:47):
believe it was called planner, and.
Speaker 1 (01:49):
So I had those for two to.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
Three years, and then she transitioned out of making those
with specific dates because.
Speaker 1 (02:00):
I mean, I for reasons.
Speaker 2 (02:02):
I think you've looked into the economics of this too,
Like if one is going to sell a planner, the
issues of making a very nicely created, good paper, well
bound planner. They are expensive and if they have a
specific year's date on them, they become totally obsolete by
about two three months into the year, when people aren't
buying yearly planners anymore. So she'd be on selling one
(02:25):
that doesn't have dates. But you know, I kind of
wanted to have the dates. I don't know that she's
going to be selling those long term either, because she's
a fascinating pushing there's a lot of different directions you
can tell talking to her. She's so creative, and she
I think has kept her business fresh and exciting by
being willing to pivot frequently, and I think that's really cool.
Speaker 1 (02:47):
Totally cool.
Speaker 3 (02:48):
Interestingly, the only way to get around that dated issue,
which not that I'm planning on launching a planner anytime soon,
but is that you only sell on pre order. So
you tell your people, you're like, this planner doesn't even
exist yet, to order it like four months in advance,
and then once you've ordered it, I will print it
for you for you, versus I have stacks of the
expensive twenty twenty six planner lying around. That is a
(03:10):
pure liability for me if they don't sell well.
Speaker 2 (03:12):
And I wound up going recently in the past few
years then with plum papers, notes and days, I think
is what it's called, and that's something to you pay
to have it printed for you. It is custom designed,
and so that's obviously its own business model as well.
But we talked more about organizing and decorating, which Sarah,
I would like to ask, how is your home organization
(03:34):
project going. I mean, I know you've had other things
going on this year.
Speaker 3 (03:38):
Yeah, No, I haven't done much. I feel like I'm
ready to like make a very non aggressive list of
things that I'd like to get organized over the next
few months, like very specific, doable things. And especially because
maybe I do have a little bit more time since
(03:59):
I am not spending as much time running and I'm
looking for things to do, I think I could get
around that. But no, I'm not like even feeling ready
to be like I want to organize my whole home
or anything like that.
Speaker 4 (04:11):
I don't.
Speaker 3 (04:12):
I can't decide if I even ever need that.
Speaker 2 (04:16):
Well, I'm sort of I'm thinking I should try to
channel I mean, I don't know.
Speaker 1 (04:20):
April is like ridiculous.
Speaker 2 (04:21):
This month is totally ridiculous and may will be too,
So I don't maybe this is going to be a
later project. I had this like spring cleaning energy. I'm
just massively short on time. But there's certain things I
want to do, like clean out the mudroom because as
we're moving the coats to storage for summer, we could
go through the bins of shoes. Many of which have
(04:43):
shoes from like two years ago, because kids grow out
of shoes and they get new ones and then the
old ones are in the bin still and they're never
going to wear the shoes from two years ago.
Speaker 1 (04:50):
So I don't know why we still have them sitting there.
Speaker 2 (04:53):
Tidying up the porch, I mean, we start hanging out
on the porch a little bit more, doing chalk on
the driveway and all that, and stuff just accumulates there.
Still have stuff from last summer that's overwintered there on
the porch and it is looking a little rougher as a
result of having overwintered outside on the porch.
Speaker 1 (05:11):
I also want to clean out my car. It's time, Sarah.
That's a twice a year activity for us.
Speaker 3 (05:17):
These days, we've moved from the once a year to
twice a year, and it's oooh, it's about right.
Speaker 2 (05:20):
It's about right. Yeah, No, I think it could really
use it. So I think of maybe a calling one
of those services as they come to your driveway and
like detail the whole car.
Speaker 1 (05:27):
I think, I think maybe I'll do that. You can
totally do that a little treat for myself.
Speaker 2 (05:31):
All right, We're delighted to have Whitney English joining us again,
the author of Organized First, Decorate Second, which will be
out later this month.
Speaker 1 (05:39):
So let's hear what Whitney has to say.
Speaker 2 (05:41):
Well, Sarah and I are delighted to welcome Whitney English
to the show. So Whitney, could you introduce yourself to
our listeners.
Speaker 5 (05:49):
Hi, thanks for having me. I'm excited to be here.
My name is Whitney English. I am an author and
artist and designer, and I and a wife and a mom.
I have three kids, ages fifteen, fourteen, and twelve. You
have to do the math on that every time I
feel it. And my second book is coming out on
(06:13):
April twenty ninth. I think we're going to talk about
that some and so anyway, that's the short version.
Speaker 2 (06:20):
Yeah, awesome. I have a couple kids around those ages too.
My middle ones are fifteen and thirteen and ten, so
appreciate how.
Speaker 1 (06:30):
That goes with the household.
Speaker 2 (06:31):
But yeah, let's talk about the book because you have
a new one out called Organize First, Decorate Second, which
seems to imply a certain worldview of how we should
be doing things, what order we should be doing things.
So I'm very curious why you decided to spread the
message about that to order in which we should tackle things.
Speaker 4 (06:53):
That is a great question.
Speaker 5 (06:56):
Also, you've written several books as well, right, yes, a
couple of which I've read.
Speaker 1 (07:03):
Oh well, well that's exciting.
Speaker 4 (07:05):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (07:06):
So there's nothing like a little intimidation factor realizing that
I'm talking to an author who's written about productivity. So
I have adhd I talk about this in the book.
I know that that is a different experience for everyone.
And I also love stuff, and stuff loves me. I
(07:26):
am a magnet to stuff. I come by hoarding in
a hereditary sense, I mean both sides. It's a strong gene.
And I was just petting around the house one day,
just tidying stuff up, and I thought to myself, it
was that internal monologue that most women have, that just
you're talking to yourself. You're telling yourself you can do this,
(07:49):
or you're telling yourself you don't want to do it,
or whatever it is. And I just thought to myself, organized,
first decorate, second Whitney. And then as a writer, you're
like that, that's a catchy ring to it. I don't know,
and maybe that could be a book title. And then
my editor said, give me some ideas and I threw
that one out there and she said, yeah, let's explore this.
(08:10):
I said, do you realize that I'm not naturally organized
at all? And she insisted that that was the reason
why I needed to write the book.
Speaker 4 (08:16):
So here we are.
Speaker 1 (08:18):
Here we are.
Speaker 2 (08:19):
Yeah, so you have learned to organize first and decorate second.
Speaker 1 (08:22):
Well, I wonder if you could talk a little bit
about that.
Speaker 2 (08:24):
I mean, what does ADHD do in terms of trying
to create household systems and organize a home and run
a family. I'm curious how exactly that plays out in
terms of the challenges one might experience, how.
Speaker 5 (08:42):
It manifest itself. I think it's different for everyone. But
for me, and I have not measured the chemicals in
my brain, I don't even know if that's possible, not
a neuroscientist, but for me, it feels like a lack
of dopamine. The reason I say that is because whenever
I do start getting stuff done, even if it's just
(09:05):
small things, I notice a momentum that kind of picks up,
that starts to feel like maybe we were going someplace
here instead of just sitting here doing nothing or thinking
I really need to go change the laundry. Or I
really need to go prune the rose bushes. So sometimes
(09:26):
I feel like exercising that mental muscle. I don't talk
about this in the book, but I think, I mean,
I think that the whole conversation is And really that's
another reason for writing a book, because you're interested in something.
You're like, I want to have a conversation about this
and see if there are other people out there that
want to talk about it too, even if their experiences
might be different than mine. But in our house, several
(09:50):
people have ADHD and it just ends up creating a
lot of clutter over time. You know, kids drop their
shoes by the back door. You can put a laundry
basket right there, but they will drop the laundry right
beside the laundry basket. And I do the same thing.
So really, in writing it, I hope that people get
(10:11):
the message that you just have to figure out what
works for you. Yeah, and hack your own systems. That's
really the crux of it.
Speaker 4 (10:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:21):
Well, it's so interesting because I think a lot of
adult women realize at some point that they have ADHD or.
Speaker 1 (10:29):
Some other sort of neuro non typical wiring. Yeah, and it.
Speaker 2 (10:34):
Wasn't diagnosed when they were young because they're not a
little boy jumping around in class, So it's not it
doesn't manifest in the sort of stereotypical ways.
Speaker 5 (10:46):
Right, Yeah, I was diagnosed as an adult. In looking back,
it made a lot of sense. I struggled as a student,
just couldn't. Like there were just certain classes I could not.
I think that's why I majored into your design. I
think that's why I went into a creative field. It
is because I'm like, I can do a project. I
could stay up until four am and color pictures of
(11:09):
interiors and paint things and craft things. But passing the
marketing test was really tough for me, getting anything about
a seventy six. I remember, I tried so hard. I
just knew if I applied myself, I could do it,
because I'm not dumb. But it's just really it was
a big challenge.
Speaker 1 (11:29):
Yes, yeah, Well, so let's dive into this a little bit.
Speaker 2 (11:34):
You know a lot of people wind up with that
kind of spring cleaning energy at this time of year
when this is airing and when as your book is
coming out. So you've recasted getting organized. Part of this
is decluttering. But you say you prefer the word editing.
So I love editing myself when it comes to words.
But why is editing the right way to think about
(11:56):
our homes and our spaces.
Speaker 5 (11:58):
Yeah, that's a great question. So I have two stories
on that. A few years ago, we were in a
different spot in life. I'm just gonna I'm gonna shorten
the story, and I needed some help with my house,
and so I reached out to a local interior designer.
Even though I consider myself to be a designer, different
(12:19):
designers have different skill sets. I don't like doing bookshelves.
She liked doing bookshelves. Okay, you want to do my
bookshlves do my bookshelves. And she said, okay, let's put
together a Pinterest board. And we just started throwing things
together and at one point in time, I can't remember
how it came up, but she said, it really is
just all about the edit. And I kind of let
(12:40):
that sink in. She was a talented designer. I really
appreciated her point of view and just the idea of
reviewing these images and looking at them and editing the
images to create a visual story. I mean, it's similar
to using to editing words. We're creating a visual story
on a private Pinterest board that tells us the direction
(13:04):
that the story's going to go. So that resonated with
me before that, and I do talk about this story
in My mom I also say in the I grew
up in a museum. We can talk about.
Speaker 4 (13:19):
We can talk about that too, if you want to
unpack that.
Speaker 5 (13:21):
But I've unpacked that with my therapist a lot over
the course of writing the book. But my mother came
to visit me. I was living in Dallas. It was
right after I had graduated from college, and I was
working at a retail furniture sales job. And she left
and I had gone to work that morning, and when
(13:43):
I came home from work, she had left little tent
cards all around my apartment on tabletops that said edit
in big capital perfect handwriting letters.
Speaker 4 (13:56):
And it's funny.
Speaker 5 (13:57):
When I was writing that story, I told a few people,
a couple of friends, and they were like, oh, my.
Speaker 4 (14:02):
Gosh, I would have been so offended.
Speaker 5 (14:04):
But I think the thing with my mom is you
just can't get offended if you want a relationship with her,
And so I didn't take it that way. I took
it as Okay, someone loves me. They know that I
have aspirations to have a beautiful home in a beautiful space,
and she just means well by encouraging me to not
(14:25):
have so many knickknacks lying around. I've noticed that in
my own home, like if things start to feel too decluttered,
I mean really, it's just going through and being like,
does this serve me anymore? In picking and choosing and
letting go of what doesn't.
Speaker 1 (14:41):
Absolutely well, it makes sense.
Speaker 2 (14:43):
I mean with editing a story, editing a visual story,
we were always just trying to remove what shouldn't be
there in order to have the truth shine through.
Speaker 1 (14:51):
Well, We're going to take a quick ad break and I.
Speaker 2 (14:53):
Will be back with more from Whitney English. Well, I
am back interviewing Whitney English, who is the author of
the brand new book called Organized First, Decorate Second. She
(15:14):
also has a great website, Whitney English, where you can
find various wonderful things. I've purchased some planners off of
there in the past, which.
Speaker 1 (15:21):
We could talk about later.
Speaker 2 (15:23):
But let's say that somebody is about to you know,
they've got this spring cleaning energy, and yet they're like, well, okay,
everything's a mess.
Speaker 1 (15:33):
I don't know where to start. Where should they start.
Speaker 5 (15:36):
You've heard that phrase eat that frog. I am not
a fan of eating frogs.
Speaker 2 (15:41):
We're not eating frogs. And okay, I like, we're not
eating frogs today. Okay, what are we doing?
Speaker 5 (15:46):
We are doing the easiest thing first. We are looking
for the path of least resistance. You've probably also read
Stephen Pressfield. He talks about the resistance capital R like
that thing that creatives struggle against. And it's for me,
back to the ADHD. It's all about just getting that
dopamine going, just priming the pump, so to speak. And
(16:10):
so if people pre order the book, the book comes
on April twenty nine, but part of our pre order
campaign is an email sequence. If someone goes to my
website and orders the book, they will get added to
an email sequence where I have recorded seven goofy videos.
My twelve year old daughter edited them for me, so
(16:33):
be prepared for goofiness. I mean, she did a good job,
but it looks like it's just cute, you know. And
we start with easy things. I am walking through a house,
a maximalist house. I mean, you're going to see a
basket of laundry in the hallway. In these videos, it's
not perfect by any stretching the imagination. I'm trying to
(16:55):
let people know that it doesn't have to be that
it is totally. I think, you know, this day and age,
with so much social media and so much perfection, I
think theory. I think that especially with the rise of AI,
we're going to be looking for signs from influencers that say, Okay,
(17:16):
this person's real. I really think that those are going
to become hallmarks. The fact that I totally have a
ZiT on the side of my nose right now, a.
Speaker 2 (17:30):
Laundry in the hallway, yeah, walking through, and we're just
doing the easiest stuff.
Speaker 1 (17:35):
I mean, that's what it sounds like right wherever you.
Speaker 5 (17:37):
Guys start, Yes, I was a rabbit trailing there. Yes,
if you're getting there yet, yes, the easiest thing first.
And I want to show people that that it is
okay to have a basket of laundry in your home
and still talk about organization and decoration. I would not
consider myself to be an organization expert. Now, my friends
do call me when they need help cleaning out a closet,
(17:59):
and I'll go and ask them questions and help them
get that stuff done. But I also kind of need
someone to come do that for me sometimes too. So, yeah,
it's so intimidating to think that someone's gonna think I'm
the next Marie Condo or something.
Speaker 4 (18:15):
Definitely not.
Speaker 1 (18:17):
Well. I mean, you talk a little bit about it.
Speaker 2 (18:21):
I guess the way you put is more like gentle decluttering, right, Like,
we're doing a gentle approach to this, And you actually
have a couple of tips for making it more gentle, like,
for instance, setting a time limit for any given day
of how much temporal space you are devoting to organizing
your home. What if you can talk a little bit
(18:41):
about those ways of making it a little gentler on ourselves.
Speaker 5 (18:44):
Yes, So I learned that I did hire someone at
one point in time to help me organize, and we
were in my garage going through files. She was a
nurse part time. She was kind of doing this organization
thing on the side, and I was younger. I was
this is probably twenty years ago. I got frustrated, and
(19:07):
she wisely recognized she said, Okay, you're just tired, like
your brain has made a bunch of decisions. We're done
for the day. That story stuck with me because I
learned something in that moment, this idea that if I
push myself too hard, I'm going to burn out but
in an afternoon, and I need to stop and rest
(19:27):
and renew and find that balance. I think one of
the things that the book talks about is the tension,
like we live in an era of surplus, surplus of everything.
There's marketing messages and all this stuff constantly coming at us,
and we need to create space, both mental, emotional and
(19:48):
physical space to let our eyes rest and our brains rest.
But a little bit at a time, you know, you
have to start somewhere. How do you eat an elephant?
And by this time, yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:00):
We're eating elephants. No frogs today, though, that's right, but
oh good one.
Speaker 2 (20:05):
Yeah, well yeah, so no, a little bit at a time,
you know, like one drawer at a time or one
shelf at a time, and eventually it all adds up,
which is interesting because I think a lot of people
have trouble sticking with things. And that was another topic,
I mean, you know, addressed through this lens of perhaps
ADHD or other things. And sometimes people are like, you know,
(20:25):
I'm disorganized. They need a system. I need a new system,
and then tomorrow they need another system. And a week later,
it's going to be a third system. And you know,
whereas sometimes the problem is like, no, you just need
to finish whatever you started. Like whatever system is fine
as long as you see it through to the end.
And what I loved is you actually had a chart
figuring out which flavor of chaos we were dealing with.
(20:47):
Is this something that is from personal experience?
Speaker 5 (20:51):
I take it, yes, one hundred percent. I mean, as
a creative, my world is full of half finished projects.
I am sitting here looking at a painting that's halfway done.
I mean, and there's nothing wrong with that, But I
think that I've also discovered that that finishing things creates momentum.
(21:13):
That's part of the dopamine hack, is finishing things creates momentum.
Speaker 2 (21:18):
Yeah, okay, so maybe so we try finishing a few
things and then see if we still need a new system.
Speaker 4 (21:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (21:26):
You also talk a little bit about a lot of
people after we've organized and we're going to start decorating,
I guess as the second step in the book title process.
Speaker 1 (21:35):
Mm hmm, A lot of people don't know their style.
Speaker 2 (21:39):
And I think people who are very creative or who
are oriented toward creating beautiful spaces. Trying that a little
hard to believe, and people don't know where to start.
And what I love is you actually gave people like
a list of like five things you could buy as
a basic styles starter and then figure it out from
there to the idea of a basic couch. Right.
Speaker 5 (22:02):
Yes, yes, So I love the design part of thinking.
I mean, I think that's that's why I wrote the book.
I want people to have like this access to these
great design tips and these things that you can do
that add so much beauty to the minutia that ordinary,
even half finished projects are beautiful in their own right.
(22:27):
That starter style was It's just something that came to
my mind as I called through pictures and think about design.
And I actually got a lot of these tips from
a friend of mine, an interior designer named Holly Mathis.
Speaker 4 (22:42):
I talked about her in the book.
Speaker 5 (22:44):
She's a dear friend and she has a talented eye,
and she was again helping me. We were just talking
back and forth about how stuff and she's like, well,
you need a white flip covered sofa. I mean, that's
just it, like just start there. And she recommended Ikea.
(23:05):
Now I actually recommend a different sofa in the book
rather than Ikea, but for completely different reasons. I've learned
that the back cushions on sofas floped down, especially with children,
and so in the book, I say, you need a
sofa with tight back, no crack by like one. Anyway,
there is a perfect sofa out there. And then she
(23:29):
taught me, you know a lot of designers say pick
the rug first, but she said, go with a neutral rug,
like go with the sisile or a seagrass rug. And
then if you find cute little antique wool rugs, you
can layer those on top of that rug. And that's
a lot less expensive than going and buying a huge
(23:50):
wool oriental rug from Pottery Born or whatever. And there
are a few more tips for the starter style in there,
and I really do love it when for a while
on Instagram people were sending me pictures of their rooms
and I was taking my iPad and drawing on top
(24:11):
of them and showing them.
Speaker 4 (24:13):
What they could do.
Speaker 5 (24:14):
And there are so many little things that people can
do that elevate and what I don't know and what
I wonder and what I hope the conversation around this
book leads to is there's a certain I think education
of the eye that happens when you start to notice
(24:35):
these things and then when you choose to go buy
the sofa or use that strategy for decorating.
Speaker 4 (24:42):
I also talk a lot about lighting in the book.
Speaker 5 (24:46):
How is that changing things in a very subtle the
ordinary can become sacred kind of way.
Speaker 4 (24:53):
That's what beauty does for me.
Speaker 5 (24:55):
Yeah, so it'll be interesting to hear what other people
have to say about that.
Speaker 2 (24:59):
Too, particularly when you start with neutrals in for the
basic big stuff. Then you could put in a lot
of personality with smaller and perhaps more inexpensive items. So
that's throw pillows or antiques or something interesting to put
on the wall. Yes, you actually recommend, like shopping your
own house. I'm really curious if you've had something like
(25:19):
you've completely repurposed from one space to another that you
felt like, oh, yeah, that was a big win.
Speaker 5 (25:24):
Oh I one hundred percent. Let me think I am
constantly moving stuff around. I actually have an antique booth,
and so things get shuffled back and forth quite frequently
between the hanging hanging on the wall behind me was
at the shop and it hadn't sold, and I didn't
(25:44):
have anything hanging over my bed, and I thought, oh,
I'll just hang that up there. So constantly shuffling things,
I'm trying to think if there's a.
Speaker 4 (25:55):
One thing, one.
Speaker 5 (25:57):
Very repurpose space. We have a long, skinny room behind
our kitchen. We call it the pantry, but it's a
really big pantry for a pantry. We were going to
have custom cabinet try put in there when we moved in.
We moved in during twenty twenty, but we ended up
putting in a septic tank instead.
Speaker 2 (26:16):
Not fun, not fun, but necessary, yeah, very and so
the custom cabinet tree stalled out.
Speaker 5 (26:23):
So that room has never been finished, but little by
little we have cobbled together different pieces. So somebody on
Facebook Marketplace was giving away an entertainment center, you know
those old big wall unit ones that nobody uses anymore.
Speaker 4 (26:38):
I was like, yeah, I will take that. It was
like in three pieces.
Speaker 5 (26:41):
We put one piece here, one piece here, and there's
a metal wire. It's organized. There is a spot for everything,
including the kids' shoes. They drop them right there when
they walk in the door. There's a cabinet for them.
Why they there's a cabinet. And then I actually the
other day. I just I bought a shelf off Tu
whatever it is. It's in the garage. I walked past
(27:03):
it yesterday and looked down. I thought, why did I
put a shelf there? There are no shoes on that shelf.
But anyway, you try and try, and so yeah, our
whole pantry has been a situation of repurposed and if
I find something else that works better, I'll shuffle it out,
re sell those pieces on Facebook, marketplace, things like that.
Speaker 4 (27:27):
One thing that never fails me is.
Speaker 5 (27:30):
And I picked up on this, I think by looking
at people's Instagram photos, I like things, and I think
we all like things that aren't plastic. I think we
are drawn to natural wood. I mean, it could be
pain and wood, but it's wood. It's just it's not
for Mica, you know, it's not. And so that's another
(27:50):
thing that I've noticed that gives things an enduring and
repurposable value is if they're glass or organic in a sense.
And those things actually sort of make up the basis
of what I call starter style. This idea of somebody
was actually a friend of mine that was a photographer
(28:11):
was photographing my kitchen one day and she was like,
how is your kitchen so photographable?
Speaker 4 (28:17):
Like you didn't do anything to it?
Speaker 5 (28:19):
And I just said, there's no plastic in it, Like
everything that's on the counter is glass, or like a
sitting in a metal tray, or there's no plastic. Yeah, anyway,
that's an interesting thought for listeners.
Speaker 2 (28:36):
All right, Well, we're going to take one more quick
ad break and then I will be back with more
from Whitney English. Well, I am back talking with Whitney English,
who is the author of the new book Organized First,
(28:57):
Decorate Second. But you've also had the whole business of
selling planners and things along those lines, like notepads to
help you organize your life.
Speaker 1 (29:07):
I wonder if you could talk a little bit about.
Speaker 2 (29:10):
Like when you're coming up with planner concepts and all that,
what are you thinking about, I mean, designing a planner.
Speaker 1 (29:18):
What is it really supposed to do for people that
you need to get at in the design?
Speaker 5 (29:24):
So I created a planner called day Designer. Since sold
that company, don't own it anymore, and then went out.
It was really fun. We got it into Target. The
company that licensed it for Target actually ended up purchasing it.
I still work with them, still do some designs for
them nowadays had a three year contract with them. When
the non compete was up. After my consulting contract was over,
(29:46):
I thought, you know what, I know how to make planners.
I'll just make a planner again. I'll make a few
refinements and adjustments. I think one of the interesting things
about making a planner was that I like things to evolve.
That when you build a customer base that's used having
things one way, they don't like things to evolve. So
starting another planner company felt like an opportunity to let
(30:08):
the product evolve. And we're actually not going to be
making planners anymore. I am licensing with different partners and
still working in that space. But when I create a
day designer, I used a wire rings notebook like just
(30:30):
that student would use in college or high school or whatever.
And I used pretty much a page a day. I mean,
it was kind of like I would write down, this
is my schedule, this is my to do list. It
wasn't necessarily formalized like that. And I had always wanted
to create a planner, and I work in all the
(30:51):
Adobe Suitet products, So I laid something out in design
and was just playing around with it. One thing led
to another on a short story because the development of
Datasigner happened over probably the course of three years.
Speaker 4 (31:07):
At first it.
Speaker 5 (31:08):
Was a weekly planner, and then I started realizing there
were a ton of weekly planners on the market, and
I really started thinking, I'm a very analytical creative. I
can pick something apart figure out why it doesn't work.
But I was standing in staples and I realized that
what I needed was a daily planner. That's how I
was using my viral notebook. And so middle of the
(31:32):
night I was pregnant, went home, drew this thing out,
took it in the next day to my production manager
Anna and said, Okay, I need you to print this.
Speaker 4 (31:44):
And she did some.
Speaker 5 (31:45):
Amazing math and came back and said, if I print this,
people are going to be carrying around a phone book.
Whitney like, you're going to have to take some stuff
out of it. And I mean it was a lot
of math. We were like, okay, so it can't be weekly.
We have to We wanted the paper to be a
certain quality. We actually reverse engineered this. I mean, it's
(32:09):
not just like sitting down and drawing gridlines on paper.
That's the short version. The long version is we sourced
covers in the United States. We sourced binding in the
United States. We handmade those puppies for a solid year
before we started producing in China. So it's actually interesting,
(32:30):
especially with tariffs and stuff. Now I've been thinking about this.
I'll just put this out there. But if anybody wants
to make a planner and is trying to figure out
how to make in the United States, I can tell
you how to do that pro tip, right, so reach
out or whatever.
Speaker 4 (32:46):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's.
Speaker 1 (32:48):
Such a challenge.
Speaker 2 (32:49):
No, I mean to have the good paper, but like, yeah,
the thing people have with dailyes is, of course there's
three hundred and sixty five days in a year exactly,
which is a lot of paper, right, it.
Speaker 1 (32:59):
Is, it is.
Speaker 5 (33:00):
And so we ended up doing a combined weekend page. Yeah,
and then we I realize now, in hindsight, if it
had been a weekly and a daily together, it would
have been too much. It really would have been too much.
I talk a little bit about this in the book too.
Different seasons call for different systems. There are times in
(33:22):
life when I need a daily promoting The book right
now is one of them that I am filling a
page to day. There are times when I need a
weekly spread and I just need to look at my
week and see the three things that I have to
do every day and mark those off. So I actually
still have one planner idea that I've never executed on
(33:44):
that I would love to execute on. I was thinking
about this yesterday. I need to There's a few companies
that I just need to reach out and be like,
let's do this.
Speaker 4 (33:54):
Come on, we just need it.
Speaker 1 (33:56):
No, it's doing it. What's the whole of the market.
I'm very curious just kind of.
Speaker 5 (34:01):
A weekly that I've never we've done. We still have
a little bit of inventory on ours. People can still
order them. We have dailies, and then we have a
format called a week on one page, which is a
fun format. It just it hasn't been sustainable. I'm really
proud of the product that week on one page format.
Speaker 4 (34:23):
Anyway.
Speaker 5 (34:23):
We did some really neat stuff with it where people
could reuse the outer spine and there's just some cool features.
But when you have to order fifteen hundred and you're
only selling like two hundred on launch day, it just
doesn't work to have a dated product that I mean,
it's been pretty sad to throw away all that.
Speaker 2 (34:45):
Yeah, I notice that you switch to an undated one
yet probably that you could keep selling at least for
a few years. And in terms of inventory management, yeah, no,
it's a rough business. I've been fascinated watching it. My
co host has a particular interest in planners, so oh
really know it's the whole market, but yeah, yeah, we
(35:07):
always love to see what people do to make themselves
stand out.
Speaker 1 (35:10):
So wait, we always end with a love of the week.
Speaker 2 (35:15):
I can go first to I need give you a
second to think about it, so I'm going to say
online scheduling, like for anything, like for doctor appointments, for haircuts,
for you know, if you can choose when the cable
guy is coming, like anything where you don't have to
(35:36):
go through a phone system, like you can actually just
sit there like while you're waiting in line somewhere else,
or do it at two am if you need to.
Speaker 1 (35:43):
It's just so much better. I wish everywhere had online scheduling.
What's your love of the week.
Speaker 4 (35:49):
I'm gonna go yesterday.
Speaker 5 (35:52):
I just really wanted a Slurpee from seven to eleven
mm hm, and I wanted doctor pepper and cherry, you know,
mixed together that the Doctor Pepper the cherry route still
not frozen all the way so we can have them.
So we might have to try again today, might.
Speaker 1 (36:09):
Have to try again. Yeah, that is a good combination.
Speaker 2 (36:12):
That's a you know, it's always sad when wait, we
have wah wah around here. My kids go in and
try and get their version of it, and like you know,
if the red or the blue is like not in
the proper texture, it's just a sad moment, not.
Speaker 4 (36:25):
Ready to go.
Speaker 1 (36:26):
It's not ready to go.
Speaker 4 (36:28):
Yeah, you have to.
Speaker 2 (36:29):
Go around to different wallwas but yeah, Well, Whitney, thank
you so much for joining us.
Speaker 1 (36:34):
Where can people find.
Speaker 5 (36:35):
You at my website Whitney English dot com, on Instagram
at Whitney English, and then more and more these days,
I am really loving substach and I am Whitney English
over there as well.
Speaker 1 (36:49):
Awesome, Well, Whitney, thank you so much for joining us.
Speaker 4 (36:51):
Thank you for having me.
Speaker 2 (36:53):
Well, that was great, so exciting to have Whitney English
on the show. I know Sarah and I have followed
her career for a long time and we're fascinated to
see what she's up to these days. So today's question,
as we are coming into summer. We have somebody asking
bathing suit ideas help Sarah.
Speaker 3 (37:12):
Yes, a perennial challenge for all of us. I think
I will share a few of my favorite brands. I
really like Athleta. They're kind of like my go to
because they just have a ton of different cuts, including
my favorite, which is like a two piece like but
with shorts because you can then put a swim jacket
over that if you want to and be just totally
(37:33):
covered up, if you're like chasing k it not that
you have to be, but if you want to be
you just don't feel like having your body beyond display
at like a kid's birthday party, it's just great.
Speaker 1 (37:41):
You're in like a workout outfit.
Speaker 3 (37:42):
You're good, and then if you want to show a
little bit more, you take the jacket off, like whatever.
Like I just think it's a nice happy medium and
there's some like really different forgiving cuts there. I also
did some browsing and Summersault is a brand I've ordered
from before, and I saw this one piece that has
like to me, it looked very well engineered, like there
was a cut out, but it was like right in
the right place, And I think that's a really popular
(38:04):
brand for people kind of in their thirties, forties and beyond.
And then another brand that I've heard a lot of
about is Andy. One of my favorite fashion bloggers talks
about this brand and I love that. When I went
on their website, they actually have a category called chasing
a Toddler and there are all these one pieces that
are supposed to like stay in place. So I'm like,
I'm here for that category.
Speaker 1 (38:23):
That is good.
Speaker 3 (38:24):
And then my final note is that if you want
to go two piece, but you're like, I don't want
to show that much, there's a lot of high waisted
stuff out there these days, and that can be a
lot easier to pull off. I think a lot of
people are comfortable showing their skin like above their waist
kind of versus like something really low slung.
Speaker 1 (38:41):
That's a look I'm going for these days.
Speaker 2 (38:46):
Yes, or too much flesh on the bottom of it,
or many things that just don't need to be seen.
So I wear the I have no great advice in this.
I wear these speedo they're kind of rooshed rushed.
Speaker 1 (38:59):
How are you say that? Are U?
Speaker 2 (39:01):
C h eed at one pieces? And I am sure
they are not the world's most stylish things. That they're
a little stylish than your average more stylish than your
average Speedo because I mean it's not for racing competitions.
Speaker 1 (39:12):
I think it's just more for wearing. But they don't move.
Speaker 2 (39:15):
I mean they stay put wide enough straps that they
don't go anywhere, and the leg holes are at a
place that is not going to reveal anything that you
do not wish to reveal, so you might look into those.
Speaker 3 (39:30):
Speedo is an iconic classics swimbler brands, So I think, yeah,
can't really go wrong, can't.
Speaker 2 (39:35):
Go wrong, can't go wrong? All right, Well, this has
been best of both worlds. I have been interviewing Whitney English.
We will be back next week with more on making
work and life fit together.
Speaker 1 (39:47):
Thanks for listening.
Speaker 3 (39:48):
You can find me Sarah at the shoebox dot com
or at the Underscore Shoebox on Instagram, and you.
Speaker 2 (39:54):
Can find me Laura at Laura vandercam dot com. This
has been the best of both worlds podcasts. Please join
us next time for more on making work and life
work together.
Hi.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
I'm Laura Vanderkamp. I'm a mother of five, an author, journalist,
and speaker.
Speaker 3 (00:15):
And I'm Sarah Hart Hunger, a mother of three, practicing physician,
writer and course creator. We are two working parents who
love our careers and our families.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Welcome to best of both worlds. Here we talk about
how real women manage work, family, and time for fun.
From figuring out childcare to mapping out long.
Speaker 1 (00:33):
Term career goals.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
We want you to get the most out of life.
Speaker 1 (00:41):
Welcome to best of both worlds. This is Laura.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
This episode is airing in mid to late April of
twenty twenty five. I am going to be interviewing Whitney English,
who is an entrepreneur an author. She has a brand
new book coming out later this month called Organized First,
Decorate Second. That's obviously a certain worldview that I guess
she wants us to follow there. So we're very excited
(01:03):
to have Whitney on the show.
Speaker 3 (01:05):
I'm very excited for you to talk to her, just
because I've known her name for so long. She created
the day Designer and then she pivoted to her own
line of planners, and you used one for a while,
So did you guys talk about that at all.
Speaker 2 (01:18):
Well, we didn't really talk about it that much because
it planners was not the major.
Speaker 1 (01:22):
Focus of our time.
Speaker 2 (01:24):
We've been talking more like organizing and spring cleaning and
things like that. But yeah, I was introduced to the
Whitney English line of products because I was a guest
on a certain show called Best Laid Plans many years ago,
when Sarah was doing her planner matchmaking. Do you remember that,
I should do it again? Yeah, Well, she matched me
up with a Whitney English week on a page I
(01:47):
believe it was called planner, and.
Speaker 1 (01:49):
So I had those for two to.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
Three years, and then she transitioned out of making those
with specific dates because.
Speaker 1 (02:00):
I mean, I for reasons.
Speaker 2 (02:02):
I think you've looked into the economics of this too,
Like if one is going to sell a planner, the
issues of making a very nicely created, good paper, well
bound planner. They are expensive and if they have a
specific year's date on them, they become totally obsolete by
about two three months into the year, when people aren't
buying yearly planners anymore. So she'd be on selling one
(02:25):
that doesn't have dates. But you know, I kind of
wanted to have the dates. I don't know that she's
going to be selling those long term either, because she's
a fascinating pushing there's a lot of different directions you
can tell talking to her. She's so creative, and she
I think has kept her business fresh and exciting by
being willing to pivot frequently, and I think that's really cool.
Speaker 1 (02:47):
Totally cool.
Speaker 3 (02:48):
Interestingly, the only way to get around that dated issue,
which not that I'm planning on launching a planner anytime soon,
but is that you only sell on pre order. So
you tell your people, you're like, this planner doesn't even
exist yet, to order it like four months in advance,
and then once you've ordered it, I will print it
for you for you, versus I have stacks of the
expensive twenty twenty six planner lying around. That is a
(03:10):
pure liability for me if they don't sell well.
Speaker 2 (03:12):
And I wound up going recently in the past few
years then with plum papers, notes and days, I think
is what it's called, and that's something to you pay
to have it printed for you. It is custom designed,
and so that's obviously its own business model as well.
But we talked more about organizing and decorating, which Sarah,
I would like to ask, how is your home organization
(03:34):
project going. I mean, I know you've had other things
going on this year.
Speaker 3 (03:38):
Yeah, No, I haven't done much. I feel like I'm
ready to like make a very non aggressive list of
things that I'd like to get organized over the next
few months, like very specific, doable things. And especially because
maybe I do have a little bit more time since
(03:59):
I am not spending as much time running and I'm
looking for things to do, I think I could get
around that. But no, I'm not like even feeling ready
to be like I want to organize my whole home
or anything like that.
Speaker 4 (04:11):
I don't.
Speaker 3 (04:12):
I can't decide if I even ever need that.
Speaker 2 (04:16):
Well, I'm sort of I'm thinking I should try to
channel I mean, I don't know.
Speaker 1 (04:20):
April is like ridiculous.
Speaker 2 (04:21):
This month is totally ridiculous and may will be too,
So I don't maybe this is going to be a
later project. I had this like spring cleaning energy. I'm
just massively short on time. But there's certain things I
want to do, like clean out the mudroom because as
we're moving the coats to storage for summer, we could
go through the bins of shoes. Many of which have
(04:43):
shoes from like two years ago, because kids grow out
of shoes and they get new ones and then the
old ones are in the bin still and they're never
going to wear the shoes from two years ago.
Speaker 1 (04:50):
So I don't know why we still have them sitting there.
Speaker 2 (04:53):
Tidying up the porch, I mean, we start hanging out
on the porch a little bit more, doing chalk on
the driveway and all that, and stuff just accumulates there.
Still have stuff from last summer that's overwintered there on
the porch and it is looking a little rougher as a
result of having overwintered outside on the porch.
Speaker 1 (05:11):
I also want to clean out my car. It's time, Sarah.
That's a twice a year activity for us.
Speaker 3 (05:17):
These days, we've moved from the once a year to
twice a year, and it's oooh, it's about right.
Speaker 2 (05:20):
It's about right. Yeah, No, I think it could really
use it. So I think of maybe a calling one
of those services as they come to your driveway and
like detail the whole car.
Speaker 1 (05:27):
I think, I think maybe I'll do that. You can
totally do that a little treat for myself.
Speaker 2 (05:31):
All right, We're delighted to have Whitney English joining us again,
the author of Organized First, Decorate Second, which will be
out later this month.
Speaker 1 (05:39):
So let's hear what Whitney has to say.
Speaker 2 (05:41):
Well, Sarah and I are delighted to welcome Whitney English
to the show. So Whitney, could you introduce yourself to
our listeners.
Speaker 5 (05:49):
Hi, thanks for having me. I'm excited to be here.
My name is Whitney English. I am an author and
artist and designer, and I and a wife and a mom.
I have three kids, ages fifteen, fourteen, and twelve. You
have to do the math on that every time I
feel it. And my second book is coming out on
(06:13):
April twenty ninth. I think we're going to talk about
that some and so anyway, that's the short version.
Speaker 2 (06:20):
Yeah, awesome. I have a couple kids around those ages too.
My middle ones are fifteen and thirteen and ten, so
appreciate how.
Speaker 1 (06:30):
That goes with the household.
Speaker 2 (06:31):
But yeah, let's talk about the book because you have
a new one out called Organize First, Decorate Second, which
seems to imply a certain worldview of how we should
be doing things, what order we should be doing things.
So I'm very curious why you decided to spread the
message about that to order in which we should tackle things.
Speaker 4 (06:53):
That is a great question.
Speaker 5 (06:56):
Also, you've written several books as well, right, yes, a
couple of which I've read.
Speaker 1 (07:03):
Oh well, well that's exciting.
Speaker 4 (07:05):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (07:06):
So there's nothing like a little intimidation factor realizing that
I'm talking to an author who's written about productivity. So
I have adhd I talk about this in the book.
I know that that is a different experience for everyone.
And I also love stuff, and stuff loves me. I
(07:26):
am a magnet to stuff. I come by hoarding in
a hereditary sense, I mean both sides. It's a strong gene.
And I was just petting around the house one day,
just tidying stuff up, and I thought to myself, it
was that internal monologue that most women have, that just
you're talking to yourself. You're telling yourself you can do this,
(07:49):
or you're telling yourself you don't want to do it,
or whatever it is. And I just thought to myself, organized,
first decorate, second Whitney. And then as a writer, you're
like that, that's a catchy ring to it. I don't know,
and maybe that could be a book title. And then
my editor said, give me some ideas and I threw
that one out there and she said, yeah, let's explore this.
(08:10):
I said, do you realize that I'm not naturally organized
at all? And she insisted that that was the reason
why I needed to write the book.
Speaker 4 (08:16):
So here we are.
Speaker 1 (08:18):
Here we are.
Speaker 2 (08:19):
Yeah, so you have learned to organize first and decorate second.
Speaker 1 (08:22):
Well, I wonder if you could talk a little bit
about that.
Speaker 2 (08:24):
I mean, what does ADHD do in terms of trying
to create household systems and organize a home and run
a family. I'm curious how exactly that plays out in
terms of the challenges one might experience, how.
Speaker 5 (08:42):
It manifest itself. I think it's different for everyone. But
for me, and I have not measured the chemicals in
my brain, I don't even know if that's possible, not
a neuroscientist, but for me, it feels like a lack
of dopamine. The reason I say that is because whenever
I do start getting stuff done, even if it's just
(09:05):
small things, I notice a momentum that kind of picks up,
that starts to feel like maybe we were going someplace
here instead of just sitting here doing nothing or thinking
I really need to go change the laundry. Or I
really need to go prune the rose bushes. So sometimes
(09:26):
I feel like exercising that mental muscle. I don't talk
about this in the book, but I think, I mean,
I think that the whole conversation is And really that's
another reason for writing a book, because you're interested in something.
You're like, I want to have a conversation about this
and see if there are other people out there that
want to talk about it too, even if their experiences
might be different than mine. But in our house, several
(09:50):
people have ADHD and it just ends up creating a
lot of clutter over time. You know, kids drop their
shoes by the back door. You can put a laundry
basket right there, but they will drop the laundry right
beside the laundry basket. And I do the same thing.
So really, in writing it, I hope that people get
(10:11):
the message that you just have to figure out what
works for you. Yeah, and hack your own systems. That's
really the crux of it.
Speaker 4 (10:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:21):
Well, it's so interesting because I think a lot of
adult women realize at some point that they have ADHD or.
Speaker 1 (10:29):
Some other sort of neuro non typical wiring. Yeah, and it.
Speaker 2 (10:34):
Wasn't diagnosed when they were young because they're not a
little boy jumping around in class, So it's not it
doesn't manifest in the sort of stereotypical ways.
Speaker 5 (10:46):
Right, Yeah, I was diagnosed as an adult. In looking back,
it made a lot of sense. I struggled as a student,
just couldn't. Like there were just certain classes I could not.
I think that's why I majored into your design. I
think that's why I went into a creative field. It
is because I'm like, I can do a project. I
could stay up until four am and color pictures of
(11:09):
interiors and paint things and craft things. But passing the
marketing test was really tough for me, getting anything about
a seventy six. I remember, I tried so hard. I
just knew if I applied myself, I could do it,
because I'm not dumb. But it's just really it was
a big challenge.
Speaker 1 (11:29):
Yes, yeah, Well, so let's dive into this a little bit.
Speaker 2 (11:34):
You know a lot of people wind up with that
kind of spring cleaning energy at this time of year
when this is airing and when as your book is
coming out. So you've recasted getting organized. Part of this
is decluttering. But you say you prefer the word editing.
So I love editing myself when it comes to words.
But why is editing the right way to think about
(11:56):
our homes and our spaces.
Speaker 5 (11:58):
Yeah, that's a great question. So I have two stories
on that. A few years ago, we were in a
different spot in life. I'm just gonna I'm gonna shorten
the story, and I needed some help with my house,
and so I reached out to a local interior designer.
Even though I consider myself to be a designer, different
(12:19):
designers have different skill sets. I don't like doing bookshelves.
She liked doing bookshelves. Okay, you want to do my
bookshlves do my bookshelves. And she said, okay, let's put
together a Pinterest board. And we just started throwing things
together and at one point in time, I can't remember
how it came up, but she said, it really is
just all about the edit. And I kind of let
(12:40):
that sink in. She was a talented designer. I really
appreciated her point of view and just the idea of
reviewing these images and looking at them and editing the
images to create a visual story. I mean, it's similar
to using to editing words. We're creating a visual story
on a private Pinterest board that tells us the direction
(13:04):
that the story's going to go. So that resonated with
me before that, and I do talk about this story
in My mom I also say in the I grew
up in a museum. We can talk about.
Speaker 4 (13:19):
We can talk about that too, if you want to
unpack that.
Speaker 5 (13:21):
But I've unpacked that with my therapist a lot over
the course of writing the book. But my mother came
to visit me. I was living in Dallas. It was
right after I had graduated from college, and I was
working at a retail furniture sales job. And she left
and I had gone to work that morning, and when
(13:43):
I came home from work, she had left little tent
cards all around my apartment on tabletops that said edit
in big capital perfect handwriting letters.
Speaker 4 (13:56):
And it's funny.
Speaker 5 (13:57):
When I was writing that story, I told a few people,
a couple of friends, and they were like, oh, my.
Speaker 4 (14:02):
Gosh, I would have been so offended.
Speaker 5 (14:04):
But I think the thing with my mom is you
just can't get offended if you want a relationship with her,
And so I didn't take it that way. I took
it as Okay, someone loves me. They know that I
have aspirations to have a beautiful home in a beautiful space,
and she just means well by encouraging me to not
(14:25):
have so many knickknacks lying around. I've noticed that in
my own home, like if things start to feel too decluttered,
I mean really, it's just going through and being like,
does this serve me anymore? In picking and choosing and
letting go of what doesn't.
Speaker 1 (14:41):
Absolutely well, it makes sense.
Speaker 2 (14:43):
I mean with editing a story, editing a visual story,
we were always just trying to remove what shouldn't be
there in order to have the truth shine through.
Speaker 1 (14:51):
Well, We're going to take a quick ad break and I.
Speaker 2 (14:53):
Will be back with more from Whitney English. Well, I
am back interviewing Whitney English, who is the author of
the brand new book called Organized First, Decorate Second. She
(15:14):
also has a great website, Whitney English, where you can
find various wonderful things. I've purchased some planners off of
there in the past, which.
Speaker 1 (15:21):
We could talk about later.
Speaker 2 (15:23):
But let's say that somebody is about to you know,
they've got this spring cleaning energy, and yet they're like, well, okay,
everything's a mess.
Speaker 1 (15:33):
I don't know where to start. Where should they start.
Speaker 5 (15:36):
You've heard that phrase eat that frog. I am not
a fan of eating frogs.
Speaker 2 (15:41):
We're not eating frogs. And okay, I like, we're not
eating frogs today. Okay, what are we doing?
Speaker 5 (15:46):
We are doing the easiest thing first. We are looking
for the path of least resistance. You've probably also read
Stephen Pressfield. He talks about the resistance capital R like
that thing that creatives struggle against. And it's for me,
back to the ADHD. It's all about just getting that
dopamine going, just priming the pump, so to speak. And
(16:10):
so if people pre order the book, the book comes
on April twenty nine, but part of our pre order
campaign is an email sequence. If someone goes to my
website and orders the book, they will get added to
an email sequence where I have recorded seven goofy videos.
My twelve year old daughter edited them for me, so
(16:33):
be prepared for goofiness. I mean, she did a good job,
but it looks like it's just cute, you know. And
we start with easy things. I am walking through a house,
a maximalist house. I mean, you're going to see a
basket of laundry in the hallway. In these videos, it's
not perfect by any stretching the imagination. I'm trying to
(16:55):
let people know that it doesn't have to be that
it is totally. I think, you know, this day and age,
with so much social media and so much perfection, I
think theory. I think that especially with the rise of AI,
we're going to be looking for signs from influencers that say, Okay,
(17:16):
this person's real. I really think that those are going
to become hallmarks. The fact that I totally have a
ZiT on the side of my nose right now, a.
Speaker 2 (17:30):
Laundry in the hallway, yeah, walking through, and we're just
doing the easiest stuff.
Speaker 1 (17:35):
I mean, that's what it sounds like right wherever you.
Speaker 5 (17:37):
Guys start, Yes, I was a rabbit trailing there. Yes,
if you're getting there yet, yes, the easiest thing first.
And I want to show people that that it is
okay to have a basket of laundry in your home
and still talk about organization and decoration. I would not
consider myself to be an organization expert. Now, my friends
do call me when they need help cleaning out a closet,
(17:59):
and I'll go and ask them questions and help them
get that stuff done. But I also kind of need
someone to come do that for me sometimes too. So, yeah,
it's so intimidating to think that someone's gonna think I'm
the next Marie Condo or something.
Speaker 4 (18:15):
Definitely not.
Speaker 1 (18:17):
Well. I mean, you talk a little bit about it.
Speaker 2 (18:21):
I guess the way you put is more like gentle decluttering, right, Like,
we're doing a gentle approach to this, And you actually
have a couple of tips for making it more gentle, like,
for instance, setting a time limit for any given day
of how much temporal space you are devoting to organizing
your home. What if you can talk a little bit
(18:41):
about those ways of making it a little gentler on ourselves.
Speaker 5 (18:44):
Yes, So I learned that I did hire someone at
one point in time to help me organize, and we
were in my garage going through files. She was a
nurse part time. She was kind of doing this organization
thing on the side, and I was younger. I was
this is probably twenty years ago. I got frustrated, and
(19:07):
she wisely recognized she said, Okay, you're just tired, like
your brain has made a bunch of decisions. We're done
for the day. That story stuck with me because I
learned something in that moment, this idea that if I
push myself too hard, I'm going to burn out but
in an afternoon, and I need to stop and rest
(19:27):
and renew and find that balance. I think one of
the things that the book talks about is the tension,
like we live in an era of surplus, surplus of everything.
There's marketing messages and all this stuff constantly coming at us,
and we need to create space, both mental, emotional and
(19:48):
physical space to let our eyes rest and our brains rest.
But a little bit at a time, you know, you
have to start somewhere. How do you eat an elephant?
And by this time, yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:00):
We're eating elephants. No frogs today, though, that's right, but
oh good one.
Speaker 2 (20:05):
Yeah, well yeah, so no, a little bit at a time,
you know, like one drawer at a time or one
shelf at a time, and eventually it all adds up,
which is interesting because I think a lot of people
have trouble sticking with things. And that was another topic,
I mean, you know, addressed through this lens of perhaps
ADHD or other things. And sometimes people are like, you know,
(20:25):
I'm disorganized. They need a system. I need a new system,
and then tomorrow they need another system. And a week later,
it's going to be a third system. And you know,
whereas sometimes the problem is like, no, you just need
to finish whatever you started. Like whatever system is fine
as long as you see it through to the end.
And what I loved is you actually had a chart
figuring out which flavor of chaos we were dealing with.
(20:47):
Is this something that is from personal experience?
Speaker 5 (20:51):
I take it, yes, one hundred percent. I mean, as
a creative, my world is full of half finished projects.
I am sitting here looking at a painting that's halfway done.
I mean, and there's nothing wrong with that, But I
think that I've also discovered that that finishing things creates momentum.
(21:13):
That's part of the dopamine hack, is finishing things creates momentum.
Speaker 2 (21:18):
Yeah, okay, so maybe so we try finishing a few
things and then see if we still need a new system.
Speaker 4 (21:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (21:26):
You also talk a little bit about a lot of
people after we've organized and we're going to start decorating,
I guess as the second step in the book title process.
Speaker 1 (21:35):
Mm hmm, A lot of people don't know their style.
Speaker 2 (21:39):
And I think people who are very creative or who
are oriented toward creating beautiful spaces. Trying that a little
hard to believe, and people don't know where to start.
And what I love is you actually gave people like
a list of like five things you could buy as
a basic styles starter and then figure it out from
there to the idea of a basic couch. Right.
Speaker 5 (22:02):
Yes, yes, So I love the design part of thinking.
I mean, I think that's that's why I wrote the book.
I want people to have like this access to these
great design tips and these things that you can do
that add so much beauty to the minutia that ordinary,
even half finished projects are beautiful in their own right.
(22:27):
That starter style was It's just something that came to
my mind as I called through pictures and think about design.
And I actually got a lot of these tips from
a friend of mine, an interior designer named Holly Mathis.
Speaker 4 (22:42):
I talked about her in the book.
Speaker 5 (22:44):
She's a dear friend and she has a talented eye,
and she was again helping me. We were just talking
back and forth about how stuff and she's like, well,
you need a white flip covered sofa. I mean, that's
just it, like just start there. And she recommended Ikea.
(23:05):
Now I actually recommend a different sofa in the book
rather than Ikea, but for completely different reasons. I've learned
that the back cushions on sofas floped down, especially with children,
and so in the book, I say, you need a
sofa with tight back, no crack by like one. Anyway,
there is a perfect sofa out there. And then she
(23:29):
taught me, you know a lot of designers say pick
the rug first, but she said, go with a neutral rug,
like go with the sisile or a seagrass rug. And
then if you find cute little antique wool rugs, you
can layer those on top of that rug. And that's
a lot less expensive than going and buying a huge
(23:50):
wool oriental rug from Pottery Born or whatever. And there
are a few more tips for the starter style in there,
and I really do love it when for a while
on Instagram people were sending me pictures of their rooms
and I was taking my iPad and drawing on top
(24:11):
of them and showing them.
Speaker 4 (24:13):
What they could do.
Speaker 5 (24:14):
And there are so many little things that people can
do that elevate and what I don't know and what
I wonder and what I hope the conversation around this
book leads to is there's a certain I think education
of the eye that happens when you start to notice
(24:35):
these things and then when you choose to go buy
the sofa or use that strategy for decorating.
Speaker 4 (24:42):
I also talk a lot about lighting in the book.
Speaker 5 (24:46):
How is that changing things in a very subtle the
ordinary can become sacred kind of way.
Speaker 4 (24:53):
That's what beauty does for me.
Speaker 5 (24:55):
Yeah, so it'll be interesting to hear what other people
have to say about that.
Speaker 2 (24:59):
Too, particularly when you start with neutrals in for the
basic big stuff. Then you could put in a lot
of personality with smaller and perhaps more inexpensive items. So
that's throw pillows or antiques or something interesting to put
on the wall. Yes, you actually recommend, like shopping your
own house. I'm really curious if you've had something like
(25:19):
you've completely repurposed from one space to another that you
felt like, oh, yeah, that was a big win.
Speaker 5 (25:24):
Oh I one hundred percent. Let me think I am
constantly moving stuff around. I actually have an antique booth,
and so things get shuffled back and forth quite frequently
between the hanging hanging on the wall behind me was
at the shop and it hadn't sold, and I didn't
(25:44):
have anything hanging over my bed, and I thought, oh,
I'll just hang that up there. So constantly shuffling things,
I'm trying to think if there's a.
Speaker 4 (25:55):
One thing, one.
Speaker 5 (25:57):
Very repurpose space. We have a long, skinny room behind
our kitchen. We call it the pantry, but it's a
really big pantry for a pantry. We were going to
have custom cabinet try put in there when we moved in.
We moved in during twenty twenty, but we ended up
putting in a septic tank instead.
Speaker 2 (26:16):
Not fun, not fun, but necessary, yeah, very and so
the custom cabinet tree stalled out.
Speaker 5 (26:23):
So that room has never been finished, but little by
little we have cobbled together different pieces. So somebody on
Facebook Marketplace was giving away an entertainment center, you know
those old big wall unit ones that nobody uses anymore.
Speaker 4 (26:38):
I was like, yeah, I will take that. It was
like in three pieces.
Speaker 5 (26:41):
We put one piece here, one piece here, and there's
a metal wire. It's organized. There is a spot for everything,
including the kids' shoes. They drop them right there when
they walk in the door. There's a cabinet for them.
Why they there's a cabinet. And then I actually the
other day. I just I bought a shelf off Tu
whatever it is. It's in the garage. I walked past
(27:03):
it yesterday and looked down. I thought, why did I
put a shelf there? There are no shoes on that shelf.
But anyway, you try and try, and so yeah, our
whole pantry has been a situation of repurposed and if
I find something else that works better, I'll shuffle it out,
re sell those pieces on Facebook, marketplace, things like that.
Speaker 4 (27:27):
One thing that never fails me is.
Speaker 5 (27:30):
And I picked up on this, I think by looking
at people's Instagram photos, I like things, and I think
we all like things that aren't plastic. I think we
are drawn to natural wood. I mean, it could be
pain and wood, but it's wood. It's just it's not
for Mica, you know, it's not. And so that's another
(27:50):
thing that I've noticed that gives things an enduring and
repurposable value is if they're glass or organic in a sense.
And those things actually sort of make up the basis
of what I call starter style. This idea of somebody
was actually a friend of mine that was a photographer
(28:11):
was photographing my kitchen one day and she was like,
how is your kitchen so photographable?
Speaker 4 (28:17):
Like you didn't do anything to it?
Speaker 5 (28:19):
And I just said, there's no plastic in it, Like
everything that's on the counter is glass, or like a
sitting in a metal tray, or there's no plastic. Yeah, anyway,
that's an interesting thought for listeners.
Speaker 2 (28:36):
All right, Well, we're going to take one more quick
ad break and then I will be back with more
from Whitney English. Well, I am back talking with Whitney English,
who is the author of the new book Organized First,
(28:57):
Decorate Second. But you've also had the whole business of
selling planners and things along those lines, like notepads to
help you organize your life.
Speaker 1 (29:07):
I wonder if you could talk a little bit about.
Speaker 2 (29:10):
Like when you're coming up with planner concepts and all that,
what are you thinking about, I mean, designing a planner.
Speaker 1 (29:18):
What is it really supposed to do for people that
you need to get at in the design?
Speaker 5 (29:24):
So I created a planner called day Designer. Since sold
that company, don't own it anymore, and then went out.
It was really fun. We got it into Target. The
company that licensed it for Target actually ended up purchasing it.
I still work with them, still do some designs for
them nowadays had a three year contract with them. When
the non compete was up. After my consulting contract was over,
(29:46):
I thought, you know what, I know how to make planners.
I'll just make a planner again. I'll make a few
refinements and adjustments. I think one of the interesting things
about making a planner was that I like things to evolve.
That when you build a customer base that's used having
things one way, they don't like things to evolve. So
starting another planner company felt like an opportunity to let
(30:08):
the product evolve. And we're actually not going to be
making planners anymore. I am licensing with different partners and
still working in that space. But when I create a
day designer, I used a wire rings notebook like just
(30:30):
that student would use in college or high school or whatever.
And I used pretty much a page a day. I mean,
it was kind of like I would write down, this
is my schedule, this is my to do list. It
wasn't necessarily formalized like that. And I had always wanted
to create a planner, and I work in all the
(30:51):
Adobe Suitet products, So I laid something out in design
and was just playing around with it. One thing led
to another on a short story because the development of
Datasigner happened over probably the course of three years.
Speaker 4 (31:07):
At first it.
Speaker 5 (31:08):
Was a weekly planner, and then I started realizing there
were a ton of weekly planners on the market, and
I really started thinking, I'm a very analytical creative. I
can pick something apart figure out why it doesn't work.
But I was standing in staples and I realized that
what I needed was a daily planner. That's how I
was using my viral notebook. And so middle of the
(31:32):
night I was pregnant, went home, drew this thing out,
took it in the next day to my production manager
Anna and said, Okay, I need you to print this.
Speaker 4 (31:44):
And she did some.
Speaker 5 (31:45):
Amazing math and came back and said, if I print this,
people are going to be carrying around a phone book.
Whitney like, you're going to have to take some stuff
out of it. And I mean it was a lot
of math. We were like, okay, so it can't be weekly.
We have to We wanted the paper to be a
certain quality. We actually reverse engineered this. I mean, it's
(32:09):
not just like sitting down and drawing gridlines on paper.
That's the short version. The long version is we sourced
covers in the United States. We sourced binding in the
United States. We handmade those puppies for a solid year
before we started producing in China. So it's actually interesting,
(32:30):
especially with tariffs and stuff. Now I've been thinking about this.
I'll just put this out there. But if anybody wants
to make a planner and is trying to figure out
how to make in the United States, I can tell
you how to do that pro tip, right, so reach
out or whatever.
Speaker 4 (32:46):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's.
Speaker 1 (32:48):
Such a challenge.
Speaker 2 (32:49):
No, I mean to have the good paper, but like, yeah,
the thing people have with dailyes is, of course there's
three hundred and sixty five days in a year exactly,
which is a lot of paper, right, it.
Speaker 1 (32:59):
Is, it is.
Speaker 5 (33:00):
And so we ended up doing a combined weekend page. Yeah,
and then we I realize now, in hindsight, if it
had been a weekly and a daily together, it would
have been too much. It really would have been too much.
I talk a little bit about this in the book too.
Different seasons call for different systems. There are times in
(33:22):
life when I need a daily promoting The book right
now is one of them that I am filling a
page to day. There are times when I need a
weekly spread and I just need to look at my
week and see the three things that I have to
do every day and mark those off. So I actually
still have one planner idea that I've never executed on
(33:44):
that I would love to execute on. I was thinking
about this yesterday. I need to There's a few companies
that I just need to reach out and be like,
let's do this.
Speaker 4 (33:54):
Come on, we just need it.
Speaker 1 (33:56):
No, it's doing it. What's the whole of the market.
I'm very curious just kind of.
Speaker 5 (34:01):
A weekly that I've never we've done. We still have
a little bit of inventory on ours. People can still
order them. We have dailies, and then we have a
format called a week on one page, which is a
fun format. It just it hasn't been sustainable. I'm really
proud of the product that week on one page format.
Speaker 4 (34:23):
Anyway.
Speaker 5 (34:23):
We did some really neat stuff with it where people
could reuse the outer spine and there's just some cool features.
But when you have to order fifteen hundred and you're
only selling like two hundred on launch day, it just
doesn't work to have a dated product that I mean,
it's been pretty sad to throw away all that.
Speaker 2 (34:45):
Yeah, I notice that you switch to an undated one
yet probably that you could keep selling at least for
a few years. And in terms of inventory management, yeah, no,
it's a rough business. I've been fascinated watching it. My
co host has a particular interest in planners, so oh
really know it's the whole market, but yeah, yeah, we
(35:07):
always love to see what people do to make themselves
stand out.
Speaker 1 (35:10):
So wait, we always end with a love of the week.
Speaker 2 (35:15):
I can go first to I need give you a
second to think about it, so I'm going to say
online scheduling, like for anything, like for doctor appointments, for haircuts,
for you know, if you can choose when the cable
guy is coming, like anything where you don't have to
(35:36):
go through a phone system, like you can actually just
sit there like while you're waiting in line somewhere else,
or do it at two am if you need to.
Speaker 1 (35:43):
It's just so much better. I wish everywhere had online scheduling.
What's your love of the week.
Speaker 4 (35:49):
I'm gonna go yesterday.
Speaker 5 (35:52):
I just really wanted a Slurpee from seven to eleven
mm hm, and I wanted doctor pepper and cherry, you know,
mixed together that the Doctor Pepper the cherry route still
not frozen all the way so we can have them.
So we might have to try again today, might.
Speaker 1 (36:09):
Have to try again. Yeah, that is a good combination.
Speaker 2 (36:12):
That's a you know, it's always sad when wait, we
have wah wah around here. My kids go in and
try and get their version of it, and like you know,
if the red or the blue is like not in
the proper texture, it's just a sad moment, not.
Speaker 4 (36:25):
Ready to go.
Speaker 1 (36:26):
It's not ready to go.
Speaker 4 (36:28):
Yeah, you have to.
Speaker 2 (36:29):
Go around to different wallwas but yeah, Well, Whitney, thank
you so much for joining us.
Speaker 1 (36:34):
Where can people find.
Speaker 5 (36:35):
You at my website Whitney English dot com, on Instagram
at Whitney English, and then more and more these days,
I am really loving substach and I am Whitney English
over there as well.
Speaker 1 (36:49):
Awesome, Well, Whitney, thank you so much for joining us.
Speaker 4 (36:51):
Thank you for having me.
Speaker 2 (36:53):
Well, that was great, so exciting to have Whitney English
on the show. I know Sarah and I have followed
her career for a long time and we're fascinated to
see what she's up to these days. So today's question,
as we are coming into summer. We have somebody asking
bathing suit ideas help Sarah.
Speaker 3 (37:12):
Yes, a perennial challenge for all of us. I think
I will share a few of my favorite brands. I
really like Athleta. They're kind of like my go to
because they just have a ton of different cuts, including
my favorite, which is like a two piece like but
with shorts because you can then put a swim jacket
over that if you want to and be just totally
(37:33):
covered up, if you're like chasing k it not that
you have to be, but if you want to be
you just don't feel like having your body beyond display
at like a kid's birthday party, it's just great.
Speaker 1 (37:41):
You're in like a workout outfit.
Speaker 3 (37:42):
You're good, and then if you want to show a
little bit more, you take the jacket off, like whatever.
Like I just think it's a nice happy medium and
there's some like really different forgiving cuts there. I also
did some browsing and Summersault is a brand I've ordered
from before, and I saw this one piece that has
like to me, it looked very well engineered, like there
was a cut out, but it was like right in
the right place, And I think that's a really popular
(38:04):
brand for people kind of in their thirties, forties and beyond.
And then another brand that I've heard a lot of
about is Andy. One of my favorite fashion bloggers talks
about this brand and I love that. When I went
on their website, they actually have a category called chasing
a Toddler and there are all these one pieces that
are supposed to like stay in place. So I'm like,
I'm here for that category.
Speaker 1 (38:23):
That is good.
Speaker 3 (38:24):
And then my final note is that if you want
to go two piece, but you're like, I don't want
to show that much, there's a lot of high waisted
stuff out there these days, and that can be a
lot easier to pull off. I think a lot of
people are comfortable showing their skin like above their waist
kind of versus like something really low slung.
Speaker 1 (38:41):
That's a look I'm going for these days.
Speaker 2 (38:46):
Yes, or too much flesh on the bottom of it,
or many things that just don't need to be seen.
So I wear the I have no great advice in this.
I wear these speedo they're kind of rooshed rushed.
Speaker 1 (38:59):
How are you say that? Are U?
Speaker 2 (39:01):
C h eed at one pieces? And I am sure
they are not the world's most stylish things. That they're
a little stylish than your average more stylish than your
average Speedo because I mean it's not for racing competitions.
Speaker 1 (39:12):
I think it's just more for wearing. But they don't move.
Speaker 2 (39:15):
I mean they stay put wide enough straps that they
don't go anywhere, and the leg holes are at a
place that is not going to reveal anything that you
do not wish to reveal, so you might look into those.
Speaker 3 (39:30):
Speedo is an iconic classics swimbler brands, So I think, yeah,
can't really go wrong, can't.
Speaker 2 (39:35):
Go wrong, can't go wrong? All right, Well, this has
been best of both worlds. I have been interviewing Whitney English.
We will be back next week with more on making
work and life fit together.
Speaker 1 (39:47):
Thanks for listening.
Speaker 3 (39:48):
You can find me Sarah at the shoebox dot com
or at the Underscore Shoebox on Instagram, and you.
Speaker 2 (39:54):
Can find me Laura at Laura vandercam dot com. This
has been the best of both worlds podcasts. Please join
us next time for more on making work and life
work together.
Popular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com