March 11, 2025 • 42 mins
Note: If you have differently-abled children, you might want to skip this episode if a discussion of typically-timed childhood milestones would be triggering to you.
The counterpoint to the classic "Just You Wait . . ." adage, this episode discusses lots of positive aspects of kids growing older, more verbal, and independent -- from baby and toddler milestones to Laura's (positive!) experiences with teens.
In the Q&A, a listener writes in asking about WHEN personal/family tasks get done.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
Hi. I'm Laura Vanderkamp. I'm a mother of five, an author, journalist,
and speaker.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
And I'm Sarah hart Hunger, a mother of three, practicing physician, writer,
and course creator. We are two working parents who love
our careers and our families.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
Welcome to best of both worlds. Here we talk about
how real women manage work, family, and time for fun.
From figuring out childcare to mapping out long term career goals.
We want you to get the most out of life.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
Hi, this is Sarah. Before we start with this episode,
Laura and I talked about it and we want to
provide a little bit of a trigger warning. This episode
talks about kids advancing in milestones and some of the
fun things about that as parents that many parents do
look forward to in their parenting journeys. However, we recognize
that not every kid progresses at a linear fashion. We
(01:01):
know that many children out there have maybe uncertainty around
their progress in various milestones, and listening to this kind
of content could be really triggering if you're dealing with
a kid who's not progressing in perhaps typical or expected ways.
So if that does apply to you and you feel
like listening to more typical celebrations of kid milestones is
going to be difficult for you. I definitely suggest skipping
(01:24):
this episode and we'll be back in your feed next week.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
Thank you so much. Welcome to Best of both Worlds.
This is Laura. This episode is going to be all
about parenting milestones. We sort of joked about calling it
just you wait, because that is one of our least
favorite phrases that people use about parenting. But we think
there's actually a lot of positive milestones as kids get
(01:48):
older that we want to talk about in this episode.
So first, Sarah, that phrase just you wait, that makes
every hair on your head stand up, right.
Speaker 2 (01:58):
Yeah, I really don't like it. And to be clear,
I don't like it when it's like, oh hah, you're
like upset about not pumping enough. Well, just you wait
till they're teenagers, you'll really find out what parenting challenges
are about. Like I don't know, like Seasoned, there was
this trope of like Seasoned parents like laughing off the
trials and tribulations of parents with young kids because that's
(02:20):
like little problems or like not really worth stressing about
and it's just so belittling.
Speaker 1 (02:27):
Yeah, or just the idea that like, oh, if you're
happy now, you won't be in the future. Like if
you're finding this particular time of parenting fun, like just
you wait, because the heavens will strike you down or something.
I don't know, it just people have a lot of
negativity that then now I will admit that. There's sometimes
like people have not like had children yet there's someone
(02:50):
pregnant and they're like, oh, I'm getting all these like
cashmere baby outfit, like I'll be able to pass down
to my grandchildren.
Speaker 2 (03:01):
I mean sometimes in those baby sizes, they wear them
only one time, so.
Speaker 1 (03:05):
It's they might be right. Maybe I would never say
just you wait. I'd be like, oh, that's great. I
can't wait to see it. I mean that would be yeah.
And see, you wouldn't say it.
Speaker 2 (03:16):
You might say it in your head, but you don't
need to say that out loud or like I mean,
I've even had it with like oh you're running, well,
just you wait, your knees are gonna hate you in
a decade.
Speaker 1 (03:24):
I'm like, well, maybe they won't. Like I was running
a decade ago and they haven't hated me yet. And
why do I need to plan from.
Speaker 2 (03:31):
In my inevitable demise like, yeah, I know about aging
and mortality, Like you don't need.
Speaker 1 (03:36):
To I have medical credentials. Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 3 (03:40):
No.
Speaker 1 (03:40):
Well, there's a couple other phrases that are also ones
that we hate, like a savor every moment, Sarah, are
you enjoying every moment? I hate? Just you wait?
Speaker 2 (03:48):
And then these two I thought were so you like,
savor every moment? And then zone defense zone defense?
Speaker 1 (03:54):
Yes, well, so you cannot enjoy every moment, and that
is absolutely ridiculous because that just heaps like suffering on
top of the misery of the current moment, like that
I'm supposed to be feeling good about this time. That
is pretty miserable. And there's nothing really that fun about
three kids screaming in the grocery store. So the person
(04:15):
telling you to enjoy every moment is not really.
Speaker 2 (04:19):
I'd be like, you want to take take one of
them joy moment too, the.
Speaker 1 (04:24):
One who's screaming loudest at the moment they can be yours. Yeah,
or zone defense just we've joked about a lot of
because it's a sports metaphor. We've heard this from a
number of gentlemen who their family maybe having their third
child and they do like, oh, we're switching from man
to man to zone defense, and that seems to imply
(04:44):
that this person has never had both two children with
them on their own, because they would have already been
doing zone defense if they were had had this situation
occur before. So you know, and the truth is that
that might actually be true, might be true. Like their ideas,
it's man to man because the only times that they
have their kids, their wife is there too, and so
they can split them. But it is what it is, Like,
(05:07):
we know that many people have done zone defense before
the third child arrives, and so we just want to
honor those who have juggled many children on their own
and adding a third is just one more to the mix.
Speaker 2 (05:24):
But we're not gonna be negative in this episode.
Speaker 1 (05:26):
Can we gonna be positive?
Speaker 3 (05:28):
Yay?
Speaker 2 (05:29):
One of our potential titles was just you wait, it's
gonna be great? Yes, So just because those positive parenting milestones,
things that maybe we didn't even like know that we
were going to look forward to, that have like made
parenting maybe easier, maybe more fun, more rewarding, things that
if you are pregnant right now or you have really
(05:50):
literly little kids, we're gonna give you some fun stuff
to look forward to.
Speaker 1 (05:53):
Yeah, so, Sarah, why don't you go first?
Speaker 2 (05:55):
I try to go kind of in age order, but
well not exactly edge order, but we're gonna start with
babyish stuff. So when they can buckle their own car seat,
it's amazing, Like they don't even have to be able
to like fully like get in themselves. But even if
they can kind of like help buckle it, or they
get to the point maybe when they used to fight
you in buckling it and they'll cooperate, Like when that
hole getting in the car thing becomes easier, it is
(06:18):
definitely something to celebrate.
Speaker 1 (06:20):
Yeah, Yeah, getting in the car independently is a huge milestone.
It just makes getting out the door that much easier
with that. Switching from like the full on car seats
to a booster seat. When you can do that, it's
each of day around four in a lot of states,
is huge because it's just something that's more portable and
(06:40):
then you can take a portable one with you or
like rent it or buy one even if you need
to in a destination. I mean, it's just so much
easier than a huge car seat that you have to
deal with when they don't need a booster seat at all.
Even more so, you're like, any car is ours. We
can get in any car. It is wild.
Speaker 2 (07:00):
Like Annabel is like fully my height, and I think
almost done growing. And now she sits in the front seat,
which is legal where we live, and it's like wow,
Like if I can sit in the front seat, she
can sit in the front seat, and it's kind of amazing. Okay,
Now I'm like nervous about car safety people, so please
look up your local laws, weigh your pros and cons.
But when you feel it is safe and it is legal,
(07:24):
it is really nice when your kids graduate from one
step of protection in the car to.
Speaker 1 (07:28):
The next one. Yeah, well, if they are your size
one would hope. I mean, we don't have laws against
like small women driving cars, like at least not yet.
Speaker 3 (07:36):
Not yet.
Speaker 2 (07:37):
I hope I don't have to give up my driving privileges. Sorry,
you're not five three, You're done? All right, next one, Sarah,
all right? When they can talk and express their frustration,
this one is amazing. And I mean, obviously it's not
going to be hit at the same time for every kid.
We had some kids that were talking at eighteen months
and others that were like three, so you know your
(07:58):
mileage is going to vary. But man, once they can
kind of say what they want and not like turn
into like a puddle of tears because they can't express that,
like they want the cheese slices instead of the peanut
butter or something like that, then just makes everything so
much easier.
Speaker 1 (08:14):
Yeah, like when the kids don't just cry because I mean,
when you got a little kid, you'll be in a
car trip and they start crying because they're uncomfortable or
they are want to get out of the car, and
you do too, but you can't cry like that. So
it's just the crying is something you didn't have to
deal with because people, especially if you're in public, people
(08:34):
don't like to listen to it, and it just makes
every situation more stressful. There's a five year old cries
for very specific reasons, right. They cry if they're upset
about something, they cry if they fell down, but they
don't just randomly cry. And I think that moment is
parenting milestone we don't necessarily talk about quite as much,
(08:56):
but it's there. It's as much as taking those first steps.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
Yeah, no, and it can't happen a little bit gradually,
but then you'll kind of realize, like, we don't have
the sound of crying frequently in our house anymore.
Speaker 1 (09:08):
And that's awesome.
Speaker 2 (09:09):
And I'm not knocking any babies who cry like that
is a perfectly appropriate and acceptable response, pre communication, et cetera.
But man, it's nice to not have that be the
dominant soundtrack.
Speaker 1 (09:21):
I will throw one in here, which is when the
child can actually follow a video woo. And I'm sure
there's all sorts of stuff about like putting kids on screens,
and I'm not saying that, you know, you want to
have your babies watching Teletubbies or whatever the thing is
for them now, but like when a three year old
could actually watch an episode of Dora and get it,
(09:44):
like what's happening, and so it actually entertains them. This
like opens up the possibility that you can like cook
dinner without a kid on your leg or something like that.
It just gives you a little bit of space, and
so I think that's a milestone that is worth celebrating too. Totally.
Speaker 2 (10:03):
That's a good one and related because I think sometimes
it can be helpful for them to sit and watch
when you're in this phase. Is that like magic moment.
Speaker 1 (10:11):
It's somewhere like.
Speaker 2 (10:12):
Three ish fourish, Like I'm fuzzy on exactly what it is,
but when you're like, I don't have to follow this
kid around to prevent them from self harm because they're
gonna fall and hit their head or put something in
their mouth or like, I never had a perfectly babyproofed
house in part because I felt like, you can never
have a perfectly baby proof house, So what's the point
of having a mostly babyproof house and then like realizing
(10:32):
it's not perfect and having like I just felt like
we had to rely on like a lot of supervision
for a really long time. But when you don't have
to follow them around, it is magical. And I think
most of us can kind of like sense when that
moment has been reached.
Speaker 1 (10:45):
Yeah, yeah, And it's unclear exactly when it is, And
if you went to somebody else's house, you might still
need to follow them around for a while, but there
is a moment, like when you can bring your kids
to someone's house and like if you're going for a
play date and you like that parent, like the two
of you could sit and talk in another room, right
and you don't have to be there right on top
of them, supervising the whole time. Yeah, that's a pretty
(11:08):
magical moment when that happens too, totally. Well, we're going
to take a quick break.
Speaker 2 (11:12):
We're so enthusiapatistic about these moments, we're living all these
positive milestones. We will be right back with some more.
Speaker 1 (11:30):
Well, we are back talking about positive parenting milestones. Things
you can be looking forward to if you have tiny
children who need constant supervision right now. Things that will
make your future feel bright. Just you wait, because it's
going to be great. So, Sarah, that wonderful world of
toilet independence. You guys achieved that at some point.
Speaker 2 (11:52):
Oh yeah, when they can go to the bathroom on
their own, that is miraculous. And I'll even add when
we got to some point and this is gender specific
because like I'm talking more in public, but we got
to a point where like if I was like, had
all the kids and we were shopping and then Genevieve's
like I have to go to the bathroom, I can
ask Annabel to take her rather than like stopping all
the shopping and I'm checking out and like it's like no,
(12:14):
so or at a restaurant, maybe I'm like, oh, do
you guys both have to go and I can just
stay seated. Like, if you can have your older kid
help your younger kid go to the bathroom, that's like
an intermediate milestone before the complete independence.
Speaker 1 (12:26):
Yeah, I thought you were talking about, like actually helping
a small child in the bathroom. My older kids are
not that big about doing although in babysitting it has
happened that they have needed to help Henry with being
in the bathroom. But he's five now, so he's pretty
much there almost Sometimes it's more supervision rather than active. Yeah,
(12:48):
he wants supervision and like making sure that he washes
his hands and stuff like that. But yeah, when or
when you don't even know when your kids are going
to the bathroom like that is huge. And I was
laughing about this because we have all our pediatrician appointments
coming up in swift succession over the next month, and
one of the questions they always ask them is about
(13:09):
their bathroom habits. And some of the kids, like at
age nine or whatever, will turn to me and I'm like,
I can't answer that, Like I have no idea what's
going on? You have to answer that, which is kind
of fun when you're not really aware of what is
going on totally.
Speaker 2 (13:25):
And I will admit I know to ask the kids,
like I've learned as a clinician, like the parents don't know,
and sometimes crazy stuff is uncovered when you actually asked.
Speaker 1 (13:35):
Well, okay, then find out who even knows what's what's
going to find out? But yes, if I guess, well,
you probably would know if your kid was going to
the bathroom like twelve times a day. Super would be
something that might come up in the course of your
day to day life. Okay, So restaurants though, like you
talked about having two kids go to the bathroom together
in a restaurant, even being in that restaurant is a milestone.
Speaker 2 (13:58):
Right, yes, and not having ask for a special seat
and then lug the seat around the restaurant. But everyone
just going to sit down at a regular table, And yeah,
that moment when you're like, oh, going out to dinner
is fun again.
Speaker 1 (14:11):
Yeah, somebody is just holding a baby who might be crying.
You have to walk around with them, or somebody's you know,
anxious to get out of the away from the table.
I mean, the older kids in my family are fun
to go out to eat with. Alex just doesn't eat,
so it's kind of not I mean, you know, he
won't be ordering something, so I sort of have to
just make sure he has eaten before we go, and
(14:32):
then I guess he can be on the iPad or
I can try to get him to talk or whatever,
but if he's not participating in the meal, that's sort
of its own thing. Henry is still a bit of
a loose cannon. So that's that's the reality of a
five year old. But it's getting better, Like we can
in fact sit in a restaurant and if we do
not eat immediately, it's not the end of the world.
Speaker 2 (14:51):
Yes, they don't have to bring the you know something
out right away now. I think I remember a time
in our lives when we had I think both a
single stroller and a double stroller in the foyer of
our like not very big house in Miami Beach, and
I was like, someday these will not be taking up
half of our house. So I think it's really exciting
when you really can't imagine a use case for a
(15:12):
stroller anymore and you can give them away.
Speaker 1 (15:14):
Yeah. I always remember as Henry was like three and
a half or four, and the stroller sort of migrated
from the front porch to the garage and never came
back out, and it was like, oh, okay, that's kind
of cool. Now, I'm not saying he always moves under
the power of his own ambulation, like Michael will carry him.
In various situations where he has declared that he does
(15:36):
not wish to walk anymore, he winds up up on
Michael's shoulders. So I could see a use case for
a stroller, but we tend not to take it with us.
We just rely on the fact that he's gonna walk,
or in that scenario he will wind up being carried
for a short distance, and at.
Speaker 2 (15:51):
A certain point you're just gonna be like it would
be ridiculous, like seven, it would look crazy.
Speaker 1 (15:57):
Like yeah, I mean like Michael can't carry Alex, Like
that doesn't work. Like maybe you could, but there'd be
like some back injuries coming out of it, And Michael's
going to tell me I guldgur him if I had to,
But yeah, no, it's like a small child yes, a
bigger child no. And there is a point where there
is no way you would ever be walking around with
the stroller because it would just be embarrassing for everyone involved.
Speaker 2 (16:17):
Next one is when they can read without it being
an onerous chour.
Speaker 3 (16:20):
And we're not.
Speaker 2 (16:21):
Totally there yet with everybody in the family, but we
are so close. And you know, reading isn't fun when
you're still sounding out every word. It's just like your
kid's not going to lose themselves in a book when
it takes a minute to like you have to ask
for help with every third word. So this is when
I'm not we're not quite there, but I'm very much
looking forward to and I've seen it happen with my
(16:41):
big kids, so I know it can.
Speaker 1 (16:44):
Yeah, and even just when kids can read in general,
because then they can deal with like the world on
its like there are things that come with instructions, or
there are things that sign a sign, or if you're
turning on a television, seeing what the thing is that
it says on there, or you know, there's just reading
is obviously useful. Literacy is a helpful skill. That's why
(17:06):
we learn it. But it's just one other way that
they can entertain themselves. And I think one of the
reasons small kids wind up on screens a lot is
because they can watch a show and can't read, whereas
there becomes a point when they're six, seven, eight that
they start to become a more fluid reader, and then
things that are printed become as interesting as some of
(17:28):
the shows, and so it can wind up being a
bit more of a balance, and you may not have
to build up more of that habit if they have
developed more of an interest in shows and movies and
things like that. But I think it's doable. And one
of the things we do is they carve out time
in the evening where people can't have their screens and
so they can stay up if they want, but they're
going to be reading, and hopefully that helps build the habit.
Speaker 2 (17:51):
Yes, well here is a fun one when they can
take their own shower and or wash their own hair.
Speaker 1 (18:00):
Yeah, this is I mean, and there's It's an interesting
thing what age like kids stop wanting you to be
involved with it at all. And we talked about this
in another episode of It, being around ten or eleven,
that they like actually start really not wanting you anywhere
near them while they are bathing or taking care of
other personal things, whether that's changing or something else. And
so it's interesting to watch that as a milestone. But
(18:23):
what that also means is that you're not involved in
the bathing process. Now, that can be a double edged sword,
because my experience is that some tween boys are good
about deciding to shower on a regular basis. Some just
don't think it needs to be a priority, and so
wouldn't if you were not more actively involved in making
(18:45):
sure it happens. So you know, you need to go
in and tell them to do it, even if you
are not actively supervising the process.
Speaker 2 (18:53):
I feel like your problem is you don't live in
a hot enough climate with kids that play sports outside,
because it's like you could not poss I don't know.
Speaker 1 (19:01):
I feel like there are I mean just from being
around other tween boys too. You know that, like not everyone,
it's not a natural thing. Like the overlap of when
you need to shower daily and when you decide to
shower daily is not always immediately. You know, those milestones
don't actually happen at the same time all the time.
Oh my goodness.
Speaker 2 (19:21):
And even before they don't want you in there, there's
a point where you can send them like it's so
much nicer to be on vacation and be like Genevieve,
go take a shower. Versus like, Okay, I'm gonna have
to micromanage this shower like you, especially when they don't
have a tub or something like that in a hotel room.
Speaker 1 (19:35):
It's just nice. Yeah, no, very very true. And with
that doing their own hair, I mean this is less
of a thing for me. I guess you have multiple girls, yeah,
do not do her own hair.
Speaker 2 (19:46):
So like I have one kid who is like Annaba
broke her finger and I had to do her hair
and I was like, wow, I really haven't done this
in many, many years, Like I don't know when this happened,
but I have not been doing your hair. And she
does her hair quite nice, so you probably better than
I do. So yeah, that that one's big because that
can be time consuming and sometimes not the most quality
time you're spending with your kid because you're trying to.
Speaker 1 (20:05):
Brush out knots, and not everybody enjoys that. So yeah, yeah,
Well I have four boys who have chosen to wear
their hair more on the shorter side. If somebody wanted
to wear their hair longer, I would be all right
with that, but you know, they've generally been fine with
it being on the shorter side, which means there's never
been any doing the hair. I mean, you know, I
wash Henry's hair in the bath when he takes one,
(20:27):
And that's about the extent of my hair involvement.
Speaker 3 (20:29):
Now.
Speaker 1 (20:29):
Obviously Ruth was at some point a smaller girl with
longer hair, but I guess I was never really that
kind of mom. Her hair is pretty fine, as these
says they say us.
Speaker 2 (20:42):
The hair type thing, because my kid's hair would be
like in a big snarl, that would like we'd have
to cut it off their head.
Speaker 3 (20:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:47):
No, I mean as long as it was washed fairly
regularly and then brushed, and then you know, you could
put it in a ponytail or whatever. I don't have
the skill to braid things extensively. We've had a few
you nanny's and babysitters over the years who have much
better expertise in that area, and they've done some cool
things with her hair. But that's one thing where I
(21:08):
could just admire other people's skills. And when she's with me,
it's in a ponytail. But now she's old enough she
does her own things. Obviously she's thirteen, she's been doing
her own hair for years. Love it.
Speaker 2 (21:19):
How about when they can engage in conversation and you're like,
this is like a fun dinner party, Like I'm actually
having like a real thoughtful conversation and valuing your interesting perspectives.
Speaker 1 (21:31):
Oh yeah, when you could talk to your kids and
it's not like you're talking to a kid, like you're
actually having a conversation with a person. Yeah, Yeah, that's
a milestone that kind of sneaks up on you and
you realize, like, hey, we're hanging out in the kitchen
having a conversation, like two normal people having like this.
You know, I was cooking with Ruth the other daily baking.
(21:52):
I'm sort of like this is almost like, you know,
if I had a girlfriend here baking something with me.
I mean, obviously we're still parent a child, but you're
just having a fun conversation with each other, enjoying the time.
And yeah, that can kind of sneak up on you too. Now,
some children are more introverted than others, so it could
be harder to engage some people in a conversation than others.
(22:14):
But you know, if it's a topic they like, and
so if you do the work to figure that out,
then you can have a really cool conversation with them too.
Speaker 2 (22:21):
Yeah, or they may know a lot more about something
than you do all of a sudden, and you're like, oh,
I will learn from this tween or teen, like that's amazing.
Speaker 1 (22:29):
Yeah, that's awesome. All right, Well let's take one more
quick ad break and then we'll be back with some
more positive parenting milestones. We'll be all right back to
the kitchen. Yeah, yeah, back to the kitchen, Sarah. What
(22:51):
else is a milestone for you in the kitchen?
Speaker 2 (22:53):
Yeah, when they can cook and they like it legitimately
is good. Cameron is like the omelet master in our house. Actually,
to be honest, he's surpassing. But I think in terms of,
like she's going to a cooking camp this summer, so
I don't know, like like.
Speaker 1 (23:08):
You can have them compete this summer. You could be
the happy beneficiary of that exactly. Yeah. No, I mean
I have enjoyed, like Ruth will do baking projects and
things like that. But even just when the kids are
able to produce their own food when they are hungry
and it doesn't have to involve you, Now, for some
(23:28):
children this would lead to only eating crackers. So even
if they are technically old enough to be producing some
of their own food, you sort of have to monitor it.
But yeah, like if you know your teenage boys get
hungry all the time, there's just like I don't know,
it's like six meals a day or something, but they
I don't have to be responsible for most of them.
(23:49):
You know, if you get hungry, you just scramble yourself eggs,
or you make yourself mac and cheese, or you start
the oven and make a pizza. I mean, there's just
all sorts of things you can do on your own,
and that milestone is excellent. I still cooking family dinners
a lot of time, but yeah, other extra meal food
is not necessarily your concern.
Speaker 2 (24:11):
No, It's true, like on the weekends, I don't necessarily
know what the bigger kids eat for lunch. Yeah yeah,
but genevieb iy do and it takes work and it's fine.
But like, yeah, interesting to know that that changes, all right?
Speaker 1 (24:22):
Driving double edged sword, Yeah, well that's that's kind of
a ways beyond all of these just I mean, because
of the laws on it, and I think in a
lot of states it's more graduated licensing. So even if
so in some places people can get their license at sixteen,
in some other states you can get Like in Pennsylvania,
(24:42):
you can get a permit at sixteen, and then you
have to have six months of driving experience before you
can get your license, So it winds up happening a
little bit later than it might have elsewhere. But yeah,
I mean, just having another driver opens up another dimension.
Often I think of the schedules of many people and
going lots of places being somewhat like chess here you
(25:04):
have to like think through the various moves. But when
you have another driver, it just opens up another angle
that you can take. And so it's like having a
kid who can stay home alone, or a kid who
can stay home with a younger sibling. It just adds
a level of flexibility that makes the game a lot
easier to figure out. And so like when Michael and
(25:27):
I were going out for something on a Friday night
and we had left Michael and Ruth and no not
my sorry, Jasper and Ruth and Alex were at home,
and now Henry was off he has a Friday night sitter,
but they were off at her place, right, so, and
Sam was off at something and I was like, well,
(25:49):
are we going to make it back from this thing
where we are at at a time, and then I'm like,
but we don't have to be I could send Jasper
out to get Sam and Ruth would still be there
with Alex. It's like I have the babysitter and I
have the driver and it's all good. Like it's new vistas.
New vistas have opened up in terms of figuring out
everyone's schedule. Of course, I mean that the driving can
(26:12):
go wrong. I mean, knock on woods. I know people
have had many things happen obviously, you know, scary things.
They're even just like somebody hitting your mailbox, like let's
you know, there's many many options that can happen with
a new drivers. But it is a milestone, and it
is if you have a well trained and safe driver,
which hopefully you are encouraging your young drivers to be
(26:34):
so in working with them to become so it does
open up some possibilities as a milestone.
Speaker 2 (26:40):
So kind of like on that note, teens in general,
I can't comment much having no teens officially yet although
very soon, but you have a bunch, so.
Speaker 1 (26:49):
Yeah, I love teenagers. I think they're great, and it's
not just because they're my kids, like I actually really
kind of like their friends too. I mean you know,
they're just good kids that have chosen friends well for
the most part. But I think it's like there are
a lot of really cool young people out there in
the world, and it's so exciting to get the see
them develop their own personalities and figure out their way
(27:12):
in the world and what they want to do. And
they're not quite as jaded as older people in Cynical
and so that's sort of fun. And yeah, they had
still their lives in front of them, and I really
enjoy that. And I think this is a key thing
because a lot of the just You Wait is about
how teenagers are going to be terrible, and I think
(27:33):
in some ways I've really lucked out. I also really
make a point, and this is more conscious of not
getting upset about little things, and I think that can
help a lot if you want to enjoy the teenage
years more like getting upset about dishes. Being in a bedroom,
for instance, might not be really worth getting upset about.
(27:57):
Or I'm trying to think of other things. It wouldn't
be so specific here, but you know, like one bad
grade is not the end of the world, or if
somebody if you have booked something wonderful for the child
and the first phrase out of their mouth is not
thank you, wonderful mother. I am so appreciative of this.
(28:18):
It's sort of more of a grunt because they're still
focused on something else. You don't need to fly off
the handle about that either. You can just trust that
in a little bit they'll be more excited about it,
and you just wait for that. Life with teenagers is great.
Speaker 2 (28:30):
Another major game changer has been the moment when I
feel like I can leave the kids at home without
getting a babysitter, even just for like a short like oh,
I'm dropping one kid off it sports practice, and I
can leave the other two home. And that's been relatively
recent for us, and I've been surprised at how life
changing and freeing it feels. And as someone who has
a lot of childcare already, I can only imagine it
(28:51):
being amazing when you don't have someone that you're hiring
full time.
Speaker 1 (28:57):
Yeah, I mean this is it's certainly been something for us.
It probably took me longer to get to this point.
And I don't know if it's just because, well, partly,
Jasper turned sort of babysitting age during COVID, so we
weren't really going as many places during that time as
we might have anyway, for like the first two years
until I was like fourteen, fifteen years old, and then
(29:17):
I hadn't really and we still had a very little
kid at that point, and so I'm not sure. You know,
a lot of teenage babysitters did not that big on
following a toddler everywhere and changing diapers and things like that.
But once Henry was potty trained, I was like, oh wait,
I actually have at this point three babysitters in the house,
(29:37):
and especially if they trade off, it is much more
feasible for them to do even reasonable stretches of time.
And we haven't been gone that long with them just
because of we're still getting our heads around the idea.
But so I would say the max was like Michael
and my going out to dinner for a while, and
(29:58):
then huge, but that was cuge. You know, we'd go
local in case we needed to get home, but it
was like a major milestone. And then like this winter,
We're taking Sam with us to go to one of
the Eagles games, and I had booked a sitter because
I was like, Okay, well it's gonna be six hours,
Like that's kind of a long time to ask the
other kids, so you know, especially it's their weekend like it.
(30:21):
But then she got sick and I was like, Okay,
what do I do? And so I was like, okay, guys,
you too, split it. Jasper and Ruth, you guys can
split it so you could both go do something else
if you want to during the other three hours, and
I will pay you like a good going rate for
a sitter. And so they did it and it was fine,
(30:42):
Like it was absolutely fine, and you know, I checked
in with them by phone on occasion, but you know,
we were able to be gone for that amount of
time and Henry was fine and he even got dinner.
They made him dinner, so like, yay, yeah, it worked.
It worked.
Speaker 2 (30:59):
I mean because they're definitely old enough to babysit other kids.
Speaker 1 (31:03):
We were sitting it totally be higher. I was babysitting
for all sorts of people and like by seventeen, yeah,
I mean, that's like definitely old enough to do. But
I don't know, it's just like you don't have your
own mindset of that, and then you realize, oh, yeah,
they are like definitely old enough to be doing this.
That is awesome.
Speaker 2 (31:20):
How about sleeping in on weekends.
Speaker 1 (31:22):
Oh my goodness, we don't get to a milestone. You
should definitely, although we joke about this because I feel
like a lot of adults, just as your children starts
sleeping in on the weekend, like you become unable to
sleep in anymore. Like you are.
Speaker 2 (31:37):
I could sleep in still, like, because I get up
so early the rest of the time if I want
to sleep in, And when I say sleep in, I
mean like eight yeah, But I mean don't don't you
have to.
Speaker 1 (31:47):
Like go to the bathroom after like seven and a
half hours?
Speaker 3 (31:51):
No.
Speaker 2 (31:52):
I mean I feel like sometimes I would go to
about them earlier so I could really fall back asleep.
But I guess what I'm getting at is we're not
there because Genevieve always wakes up like.
Speaker 1 (32:02):
Well, and a lot of people sort of circadian rhythms
shift as they become older. That's why we joke about
like senior citizens having dinner at four thirty because they're up,
you know, early in the morning, so the day is
like over by seven pm. But it's true, like your
circadian rhythms do shift, and so around the time that
your kids are sleeping in, you develop like you can't
sleep in anymore, and it's sort of annoying that is,
(32:23):
I can still sleep till about like eight. Yeah, I
can make it to eight, and your kids do too.
That kids do too, So on a weekend morning, if
we don't have to be anywhere early, which is its
own thing, like there are all sorts of ridiculous like
tournaments that start at seven thirty in the morning. But
if we don't have to be somewhere and I don't
set an alarm, like I will probably wake up on
(32:44):
my own and it won't necessarily be a kid that's
waking me up, Like I will probably be up before
anyone else in the household, and that's kind of huge,
or even just during the week, like the fact that
I'm setting an alarm, like there was definitely a time
in my life where the alarm was kind of a
superfluous extra check on the morning to make sure that
we didn't completely miss school work whatever. But like Alex
(33:04):
was up at five point forty five in the morning
for years, and now he is not. He's definitely not
up five, or if he is, he can go get
his own iPad and deal with it himself, Like it's
not my problem.
Speaker 2 (33:14):
This is oh my gosh, in those baby days, Like
the first day that you get woken up by your
alarm instead of the baby, that is like so sweet.
Speaker 1 (33:21):
Well, I heard a milestone from somebody who like actually
missed work, like maybe I were late to work one
morning because the first time it happened, like they were
just not prepared for that reality that it could ever happen, right,
you know that the kids had been waking up for
so long, and then they're like and probably like, you
know what worth it? I'm seven thirty train. Yeah, so
(33:42):
it can happen. It will happen to you at some point,
so you know, eventually you do need to start setting
the alarm. But it's pretty sweet, all right.
Speaker 3 (33:51):
Media, Like when kids shows don't stink when they want
to watch stuff that you actually want to watch, and
you're not just compromising because you know it'll keep every
kid happy, but you're actually legit interested in the TV
show or movie or whatever.
Speaker 1 (34:06):
Yeah, because you guys all liked Wicked, for instance, right,
I mean I love that.
Speaker 2 (34:11):
I mean maybe that's a more kid angled one, but
I mean I legit wanted to see that, and legit
wanted to see it again, so that's a great example, yeah.
Speaker 1 (34:20):
For us. The upside is that when the kids have
gotten old enough to watch stuff with Michael that I
definitely do not want to watch, which is great because
then he can go to a superhero movie with somebody
who is not me, and if he wants to watch
Game of Thrones, which I really did not want to watch.
I don't like violence and stuff like that anyway. So
(34:41):
there have been teenage boys watching Game of Thrones with
him and they can all get into it and it's
not anything I need to deal with. So that's a
wonderful parenting milestone too, totally.
Speaker 2 (34:51):
And for the record, I have not watched Game of
Thrones either. Oh no, okay. I have one last one
that I'm adding on, which is that you get to
a point when your kid will be like, I'm sick
on a school day and you're like, okay, because they
can stay home either by themselves or with you. And
that's spawned by the fact that Cameron is right now
homesick and I am sad that he's coughing, and I
(35:12):
feel bad, but I'm able to do the things I
need to do, versus back in the day i'd have
to call in more childcare. I mean, our nanny would come,
but like I didn't even have to bother her.
Speaker 1 (35:24):
It's like we're fine. Yeah, yeah, when older kids can
stay home, and I mean if they're not like a
death store. I mean, obviously, if somebody is like very
very ill, you probably want to be checking on them.
But yes, a cough or you know, sleeping off, tummy
troubles the day before is something that an older kid
can kind of deal with. On another OWD, and with that,
I would point out that there comes a point where
(35:46):
a child recognizes that they are about to be sick.
And that is a beautiful moment too. As we talk
about the wonder of winter and the winter germs and
the Nora virus thing that goes through your whole household,
some children are able to recognize that's about to happen,
get themselves to a bathroom, and there's a lot less mess,
(36:07):
and that is wonderful.
Speaker 2 (36:08):
Yes, absolutely one of the best milestones there.
Speaker 1 (36:11):
Are those best milestones there possibly could be with parenting.
All right, So on that note, Sarah, moving on, we
can go ahead and get to our question for the week.
Do you want to read this? Do you want me to? Sure?
Speaker 2 (36:27):
So this person, I'll summarize, right, they were listening to
our airtight task management episode. I wanted to know when
we get our personal and family task done, Like if
you had a task that might take a bunch of
hours to complete, is this and after kids are in
bed on weekends kind of situation. This person's just kind
of wondering where to fit that in.
Speaker 1 (36:46):
So Laura, yeah, well, this is definitely a problem for
It's a different answer if you have sort of flexible
job versus if you don't have a very flexible job.
And so I can tell you what I do, which
is I just put the bigger tasks on my priority
list for the and I just assigned them a time. So,
since I work for myself and it is often easier
to do these things when you are sitting at your
(37:07):
desk with your laptop, with your planner, with your phone,
I will probably do them during my work hours. I
try to choose time that's not my peak focused creativity time.
Like when I had to send invitations to a kid's
birthday party and I had to look up a lot
of email addresses to get them on the paperless post invite.
I did that at like three thirty pm on an afternoon, right, like,
(37:30):
that was something I carved out time to do that for.
Then I keep a running punch list and I try
to get through those sometimes on Friday. Lately, I'm not
sure what's been happening. My Fridays have been had stuff
and they've been shorter than they should be, So I
don't know what's happening with that, but I will do
at some other point. I have my running punch list,
or even make myself a weekend to do list and
(37:51):
say there's you know, I'm going to do an hour
of work on this. If you have a less flexible job,
obviously you cannot just you know, be like I'm going
to stop seeing patients at three thirty and do my
personal punch list, or I'm going to stop driving this
bus at four o'clock and do my personal punch list. Like, yeah,
obviously there's many things that this is not going to work.
But I think it's important to recognize that it is
(38:13):
work and it does take time. So you do need
to build some time into your life so as you're
planning your week, you can kind of triosh keep a
running list and triosh what has to happen during business
hours and what does not. If there's something that doesn't
have to happen during business hours, you might try carving
out like thirty forty five minutes two evenings a week
or on the weekend when you're trading off with your
partner or whatever, that you do it. Then if it
(38:34):
does need to be during business hours, either dedicate a
lunch to it, or if your business hours don't entirely
overlap with like eight to five, Like maybe you start
work at nine, maybe you could do eight to nine
one morning a week where you get through some of
that stuff. Or if you work eight to four but
you can pick up your kids as late as five
thirty at daycare, maybe you carve out one day a
(38:56):
week where you do it from four to five thirty.
And you can't necessarily do it on your employer's equipment, right,
Like I'm not saying you have to do it on
your work computer, but like go somewhere, like go to
a coffee shop with your phone and your planner and
make it happen. That's what you can do.
Speaker 2 (39:10):
Yeah, I mean, I my schedule is definitely less flexible,
even on my flexible days, I think because I don't
have very many flexible days. My flexible days become really
unflexible really fast, because I booked.
Speaker 1 (39:21):
Every interview and every thing and I can't move it.
Speaker 2 (39:24):
I do a lot of opportunists, and I feel like
the more urgent the thing is, the more I will
find a pocket time to get it done in. Sometimes
that's a weekend, like a weekend afternoon. It doesn't mean
we're only doing drudgery. There's still time to do fun
stuff and also get some work done. Sometimes it's lunchtime
at work. Sometimes a patient will know show. So there
are probably equivalents to that, and whatever your industry is,
(39:45):
where you just have a pocket of time. Someone cancels
a meeting and you know what, if you work on
that home thing for thirty minutes, probably you know it
wouldn't impact anything. And we know from our Patreon group
that many full time, very corporate working women spend some
of that work time.
Speaker 1 (40:00):
I'm doing these personal things, so sometimes that will work.
Your mileage maybury.
Speaker 2 (40:03):
And then also other pockets are like, oh, you're picking
up a kid at seven from dance, but you have
to drive across town and you don't want to go
home first. You're gonna be stuck in the car, so
like what can you get done? So looking for those
windows of opportunity and always kind of knowing what is
the most urgent so you can triage effectively.
Speaker 1 (40:21):
Yeah, all right, Sarah Love of the Week, What is
your love this week?
Speaker 2 (40:26):
Well, this one is inspired by the topic, which is
that I love it when you're well.
Speaker 1 (40:31):
We had a great playground birthday party.
Speaker 2 (40:33):
Not we we didn't throw it, but we attended one
where a I knew all the parents because the kids
have been together for years and be the kids are
all old enough that we could just let them entertain
themselves and they did and it was just.
Speaker 1 (40:44):
Like super relaxing. Yeah, no, that's great. There's certain things
that make teen independence easier than others. Obviously, it's harder
if you're not in a walkable area because then they
have to drive in order to get around. So you
still providing rides places until they're sixteen and a half
or something, and so that sort of postpones things a
(41:06):
little bit. But one thing I have found makes it
convenient for kids to go places on their own if
they need to pay for stuff is Apple Pay like
on their phones, just that you can put a credit
card on their phone. If they need it for something,
they can use it. And maybe there are things you
agree that they pay you back for, but they have
access to a payment tool at a time that they
(41:27):
might need it, So then you're not constantly asking do
you have cash on you? Like where kids don't like
to carry wallets or purses. I don't know what it
is kids these days, but so they don't have like
where are you putting your money? Like where would you
put your drivers? I said, I don't know anyway, But
that said, they at least have a way to pay
without a credit card falling out of their pocket or
(41:49):
cash falling out of their coat pocket or getting left
in the car wherever. So yeah, it's a benefit of it.
Love it all right? Well, this has been best of
both worlds. We are talking positive parenting milestones because just
you wait, it's gonna be great. We will be back
next week with more on making work and life fit together.
Speaker 2 (42:09):
Thanks for listening. You can find me Sarah at the
shoebox dot com or at the Underscore Shoebox on Instagram,
and you.
Speaker 1 (42:17):
Can find me Laura at Laura vandercam dot com. This
has been the best of both worlds. Podcasts. Please join
us next time for more on making work and life
work together.
Hi. I'm Laura Vanderkamp. I'm a mother of five, an author, journalist,
and speaker.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
And I'm Sarah hart Hunger, a mother of three, practicing physician, writer,
and course creator. We are two working parents who love
our careers and our families.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
Welcome to best of both worlds. Here we talk about
how real women manage work, family, and time for fun.
From figuring out childcare to mapping out long term career goals.
We want you to get the most out of life.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
Hi, this is Sarah. Before we start with this episode,
Laura and I talked about it and we want to
provide a little bit of a trigger warning. This episode
talks about kids advancing in milestones and some of the
fun things about that as parents that many parents do
look forward to in their parenting journeys. However, we recognize
that not every kid progresses at a linear fashion. We
(01:01):
know that many children out there have maybe uncertainty around
their progress in various milestones, and listening to this kind
of content could be really triggering if you're dealing with
a kid who's not progressing in perhaps typical or expected ways.
So if that does apply to you and you feel
like listening to more typical celebrations of kid milestones is
going to be difficult for you. I definitely suggest skipping
(01:24):
this episode and we'll be back in your feed next week.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
Thank you so much. Welcome to Best of both Worlds.
This is Laura. This episode is going to be all
about parenting milestones. We sort of joked about calling it
just you wait, because that is one of our least
favorite phrases that people use about parenting. But we think
there's actually a lot of positive milestones as kids get
(01:48):
older that we want to talk about in this episode.
So first, Sarah, that phrase just you wait, that makes
every hair on your head stand up, right.
Speaker 2 (01:58):
Yeah, I really don't like it. And to be clear,
I don't like it when it's like, oh hah, you're
like upset about not pumping enough. Well, just you wait
till they're teenagers, you'll really find out what parenting challenges
are about. Like I don't know, like Seasoned, there was
this trope of like Seasoned parents like laughing off the
trials and tribulations of parents with young kids because that's
(02:20):
like little problems or like not really worth stressing about
and it's just so belittling.
Speaker 1 (02:27):
Yeah, or just the idea that like, oh, if you're
happy now, you won't be in the future. Like if
you're finding this particular time of parenting fun, like just
you wait, because the heavens will strike you down or something.
I don't know, it just people have a lot of
negativity that then now I will admit that. There's sometimes
like people have not like had children yet there's someone
(02:50):
pregnant and they're like, oh, I'm getting all these like
cashmere baby outfit, like I'll be able to pass down
to my grandchildren.
Speaker 2 (03:01):
I mean sometimes in those baby sizes, they wear them
only one time, so.
Speaker 1 (03:05):
It's they might be right. Maybe I would never say
just you wait. I'd be like, oh, that's great. I
can't wait to see it. I mean that would be yeah.
And see, you wouldn't say it.
Speaker 2 (03:16):
You might say it in your head, but you don't
need to say that out loud or like I mean,
I've even had it with like oh you're running, well,
just you wait, your knees are gonna hate you in
a decade.
Speaker 1 (03:24):
I'm like, well, maybe they won't. Like I was running
a decade ago and they haven't hated me yet. And
why do I need to plan from.
Speaker 2 (03:31):
In my inevitable demise like, yeah, I know about aging
and mortality, Like you don't need.
Speaker 1 (03:36):
To I have medical credentials. Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 3 (03:40):
No.
Speaker 1 (03:40):
Well, there's a couple other phrases that are also ones
that we hate, like a savor every moment, Sarah, are
you enjoying every moment? I hate? Just you wait?
Speaker 2 (03:48):
And then these two I thought were so you like,
savor every moment? And then zone defense zone defense?
Speaker 1 (03:54):
Yes, well, so you cannot enjoy every moment, and that
is absolutely ridiculous because that just heaps like suffering on
top of the misery of the current moment, like that
I'm supposed to be feeling good about this time. That
is pretty miserable. And there's nothing really that fun about
three kids screaming in the grocery store. So the person
(04:15):
telling you to enjoy every moment is not really.
Speaker 2 (04:19):
I'd be like, you want to take take one of
them joy moment too, the.
Speaker 1 (04:24):
One who's screaming loudest at the moment they can be yours. Yeah,
or zone defense just we've joked about a lot of
because it's a sports metaphor. We've heard this from a
number of gentlemen who their family maybe having their third
child and they do like, oh, we're switching from man
to man to zone defense, and that seems to imply
(04:44):
that this person has never had both two children with
them on their own, because they would have already been
doing zone defense if they were had had this situation
occur before. So you know, and the truth is that
that might actually be true, might be true. Like their ideas,
it's man to man because the only times that they
have their kids, their wife is there too, and so
they can split them. But it is what it is, Like,
(05:07):
we know that many people have done zone defense before
the third child arrives, and so we just want to
honor those who have juggled many children on their own
and adding a third is just one more to the mix.
Speaker 2 (05:24):
But we're not gonna be negative in this episode.
Speaker 1 (05:26):
Can we gonna be positive?
Speaker 3 (05:28):
Yay?
Speaker 2 (05:29):
One of our potential titles was just you wait, it's
gonna be great? Yes, So just because those positive parenting milestones,
things that maybe we didn't even like know that we
were going to look forward to, that have like made
parenting maybe easier, maybe more fun, more rewarding, things that
if you are pregnant right now or you have really
(05:50):
literly little kids, we're gonna give you some fun stuff
to look forward to.
Speaker 1 (05:53):
Yeah, so, Sarah, why don't you go first?
Speaker 2 (05:55):
I try to go kind of in age order, but
well not exactly edge order, but we're gonna start with
babyish stuff. So when they can buckle their own car seat,
it's amazing, Like they don't even have to be able
to like fully like get in themselves. But even if
they can kind of like help buckle it, or they
get to the point maybe when they used to fight
you in buckling it and they'll cooperate, Like when that
hole getting in the car thing becomes easier, it is
(06:18):
definitely something to celebrate.
Speaker 1 (06:20):
Yeah, Yeah, getting in the car independently is a huge milestone.
It just makes getting out the door that much easier
with that. Switching from like the full on car seats
to a booster seat. When you can do that, it's
each of day around four in a lot of states,
is huge because it's just something that's more portable and
(06:40):
then you can take a portable one with you or
like rent it or buy one even if you need
to in a destination. I mean, it's just so much
easier than a huge car seat that you have to
deal with when they don't need a booster seat at all.
Even more so, you're like, any car is ours. We
can get in any car. It is wild.
Speaker 2 (07:00):
Like Annabel is like fully my height, and I think
almost done growing. And now she sits in the front seat,
which is legal where we live, and it's like wow,
Like if I can sit in the front seat, she
can sit in the front seat, and it's kind of amazing. Okay,
Now I'm like nervous about car safety people, so please
look up your local laws, weigh your pros and cons.
But when you feel it is safe and it is legal,
(07:24):
it is really nice when your kids graduate from one
step of protection in the car to.
Speaker 1 (07:28):
The next one. Yeah, well, if they are your size
one would hope. I mean, we don't have laws against
like small women driving cars, like at least not yet.
Speaker 3 (07:36):
Not yet.
Speaker 2 (07:37):
I hope I don't have to give up my driving privileges. Sorry,
you're not five three, You're done? All right, next one, Sarah,
all right? When they can talk and express their frustration,
this one is amazing. And I mean, obviously it's not
going to be hit at the same time for every kid.
We had some kids that were talking at eighteen months
and others that were like three, so you know your
(07:58):
mileage is going to vary. But man, once they can
kind of say what they want and not like turn
into like a puddle of tears because they can't express that,
like they want the cheese slices instead of the peanut
butter or something like that, then just makes everything so
much easier.
Speaker 1 (08:14):
Yeah, like when the kids don't just cry because I mean,
when you got a little kid, you'll be in a
car trip and they start crying because they're uncomfortable or
they are want to get out of the car, and
you do too, but you can't cry like that. So
it's just the crying is something you didn't have to
deal with because people, especially if you're in public, people
(08:34):
don't like to listen to it, and it just makes
every situation more stressful. There's a five year old cries
for very specific reasons, right. They cry if they're upset
about something, they cry if they fell down, but they
don't just randomly cry. And I think that moment is
parenting milestone we don't necessarily talk about quite as much,
(08:56):
but it's there. It's as much as taking those first steps.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
Yeah, no, and it can't happen a little bit gradually,
but then you'll kind of realize, like, we don't have
the sound of crying frequently in our house anymore.
Speaker 1 (09:08):
And that's awesome.
Speaker 2 (09:09):
And I'm not knocking any babies who cry like that
is a perfectly appropriate and acceptable response, pre communication, et cetera.
But man, it's nice to not have that be the
dominant soundtrack.
Speaker 1 (09:21):
I will throw one in here, which is when the
child can actually follow a video woo. And I'm sure
there's all sorts of stuff about like putting kids on screens,
and I'm not saying that, you know, you want to
have your babies watching Teletubbies or whatever the thing is
for them now, but like when a three year old
could actually watch an episode of Dora and get it,
(09:44):
like what's happening, and so it actually entertains them. This
like opens up the possibility that you can like cook
dinner without a kid on your leg or something like that.
It just gives you a little bit of space, and
so I think that's a milestone that is worth celebrating too. Totally.
Speaker 2 (10:03):
That's a good one and related because I think sometimes
it can be helpful for them to sit and watch
when you're in this phase. Is that like magic moment.
Speaker 1 (10:11):
It's somewhere like.
Speaker 2 (10:12):
Three ish fourish, Like I'm fuzzy on exactly what it is,
but when you're like, I don't have to follow this
kid around to prevent them from self harm because they're
gonna fall and hit their head or put something in
their mouth or like, I never had a perfectly babyproofed
house in part because I felt like, you can never
have a perfectly baby proof house, So what's the point
of having a mostly babyproof house and then like realizing
(10:32):
it's not perfect and having like I just felt like
we had to rely on like a lot of supervision
for a really long time. But when you don't have
to follow them around, it is magical. And I think
most of us can kind of like sense when that
moment has been reached.
Speaker 1 (10:45):
Yeah, yeah, And it's unclear exactly when it is, And
if you went to somebody else's house, you might still
need to follow them around for a while, but there
is a moment, like when you can bring your kids
to someone's house and like if you're going for a
play date and you like that parent, like the two
of you could sit and talk in another room, right
and you don't have to be there right on top
of them, supervising the whole time. Yeah, that's a pretty
(11:08):
magical moment when that happens too, totally. Well, we're going
to take a quick break.
Speaker 2 (11:12):
We're so enthusiapatistic about these moments, we're living all these
positive milestones. We will be right back with some more.
Speaker 1 (11:30):
Well, we are back talking about positive parenting milestones. Things
you can be looking forward to if you have tiny
children who need constant supervision right now. Things that will
make your future feel bright. Just you wait, because it's
going to be great. So, Sarah, that wonderful world of
toilet independence. You guys achieved that at some point.
Speaker 2 (11:52):
Oh yeah, when they can go to the bathroom on
their own, that is miraculous. And I'll even add when
we got to some point and this is gender specific
because like I'm talking more in public, but we got
to a point where like if I was like, had
all the kids and we were shopping and then Genevieve's
like I have to go to the bathroom, I can
ask Annabel to take her rather than like stopping all
the shopping and I'm checking out and like it's like no,
(12:14):
so or at a restaurant, maybe I'm like, oh, do
you guys both have to go and I can just
stay seated. Like, if you can have your older kid
help your younger kid go to the bathroom, that's like
an intermediate milestone before the complete independence.
Speaker 1 (12:26):
Yeah, I thought you were talking about, like actually helping
a small child in the bathroom. My older kids are
not that big about doing although in babysitting it has
happened that they have needed to help Henry with being
in the bathroom. But he's five now, so he's pretty
much there almost Sometimes it's more supervision rather than active. Yeah,
(12:48):
he wants supervision and like making sure that he washes
his hands and stuff like that. But yeah, when or
when you don't even know when your kids are going
to the bathroom like that is huge. And I was
laughing about this because we have all our pediatrician appointments
coming up in swift succession over the next month, and
one of the questions they always ask them is about
(13:09):
their bathroom habits. And some of the kids, like at
age nine or whatever, will turn to me and I'm like,
I can't answer that, Like I have no idea what's
going on? You have to answer that, which is kind
of fun when you're not really aware of what is
going on totally.
Speaker 2 (13:25):
And I will admit I know to ask the kids,
like I've learned as a clinician, like the parents don't know,
and sometimes crazy stuff is uncovered when you actually asked.
Speaker 1 (13:35):
Well, okay, then find out who even knows what's what's
going to find out? But yes, if I guess, well,
you probably would know if your kid was going to
the bathroom like twelve times a day. Super would be
something that might come up in the course of your
day to day life. Okay, So restaurants though, like you
talked about having two kids go to the bathroom together
in a restaurant, even being in that restaurant is a milestone.
Speaker 2 (13:58):
Right, yes, and not having ask for a special seat
and then lug the seat around the restaurant. But everyone
just going to sit down at a regular table, And yeah,
that moment when you're like, oh, going out to dinner
is fun again.
Speaker 1 (14:11):
Yeah, somebody is just holding a baby who might be crying.
You have to walk around with them, or somebody's you know,
anxious to get out of the away from the table.
I mean, the older kids in my family are fun
to go out to eat with. Alex just doesn't eat,
so it's kind of not I mean, you know, he
won't be ordering something, so I sort of have to
just make sure he has eaten before we go, and
(14:32):
then I guess he can be on the iPad or
I can try to get him to talk or whatever,
but if he's not participating in the meal, that's sort
of its own thing. Henry is still a bit of
a loose cannon. So that's that's the reality of a
five year old. But it's getting better, Like we can
in fact sit in a restaurant and if we do
not eat immediately, it's not the end of the world.
Speaker 2 (14:51):
Yes, they don't have to bring the you know something
out right away now. I think I remember a time
in our lives when we had I think both a
single stroller and a double stroller in the foyer of
our like not very big house in Miami Beach, and
I was like, someday these will not be taking up
half of our house. So I think it's really exciting
when you really can't imagine a use case for a
(15:12):
stroller anymore and you can give them away.
Speaker 1 (15:14):
Yeah. I always remember as Henry was like three and
a half or four, and the stroller sort of migrated
from the front porch to the garage and never came
back out, and it was like, oh, okay, that's kind
of cool. Now, I'm not saying he always moves under
the power of his own ambulation, like Michael will carry him.
In various situations where he has declared that he does
(15:36):
not wish to walk anymore, he winds up up on
Michael's shoulders. So I could see a use case for
a stroller, but we tend not to take it with us.
We just rely on the fact that he's gonna walk,
or in that scenario he will wind up being carried
for a short distance, and at.
Speaker 2 (15:51):
A certain point you're just gonna be like it would
be ridiculous, like seven, it would look crazy.
Speaker 1 (15:57):
Like yeah, I mean like Michael can't carry Alex, Like
that doesn't work. Like maybe you could, but there'd be
like some back injuries coming out of it, And Michael's
going to tell me I guldgur him if I had to,
But yeah, no, it's like a small child yes, a
bigger child no. And there is a point where there
is no way you would ever be walking around with
the stroller because it would just be embarrassing for everyone involved.
Speaker 2 (16:17):
Next one is when they can read without it being
an onerous chour.
Speaker 3 (16:20):
And we're not.
Speaker 2 (16:21):
Totally there yet with everybody in the family, but we
are so close. And you know, reading isn't fun when
you're still sounding out every word. It's just like your
kid's not going to lose themselves in a book when
it takes a minute to like you have to ask
for help with every third word. So this is when
I'm not we're not quite there, but I'm very much
looking forward to and I've seen it happen with my
(16:41):
big kids, so I know it can.
Speaker 1 (16:44):
Yeah, and even just when kids can read in general,
because then they can deal with like the world on
its like there are things that come with instructions, or
there are things that sign a sign, or if you're
turning on a television, seeing what the thing is that
it says on there, or you know, there's just reading
is obviously useful. Literacy is a helpful skill. That's why
(17:06):
we learn it. But it's just one other way that
they can entertain themselves. And I think one of the
reasons small kids wind up on screens a lot is
because they can watch a show and can't read, whereas
there becomes a point when they're six, seven, eight that
they start to become a more fluid reader, and then
things that are printed become as interesting as some of
(17:28):
the shows, and so it can wind up being a
bit more of a balance, and you may not have
to build up more of that habit if they have
developed more of an interest in shows and movies and
things like that. But I think it's doable. And one
of the things we do is they carve out time
in the evening where people can't have their screens and
so they can stay up if they want, but they're
going to be reading, and hopefully that helps build the habit.
Speaker 2 (17:51):
Yes, well here is a fun one when they can
take their own shower and or wash their own hair.
Speaker 1 (18:00):
Yeah, this is I mean, and there's It's an interesting
thing what age like kids stop wanting you to be
involved with it at all. And we talked about this
in another episode of It, being around ten or eleven,
that they like actually start really not wanting you anywhere
near them while they are bathing or taking care of
other personal things, whether that's changing or something else. And
so it's interesting to watch that as a milestone. But
(18:23):
what that also means is that you're not involved in
the bathing process. Now, that can be a double edged sword,
because my experience is that some tween boys are good
about deciding to shower on a regular basis. Some just
don't think it needs to be a priority, and so
wouldn't if you were not more actively involved in making
(18:45):
sure it happens. So you know, you need to go
in and tell them to do it, even if you
are not actively supervising the process.
Speaker 2 (18:53):
I feel like your problem is you don't live in
a hot enough climate with kids that play sports outside,
because it's like you could not poss I don't know.
Speaker 1 (19:01):
I feel like there are I mean just from being
around other tween boys too. You know that, like not everyone,
it's not a natural thing. Like the overlap of when
you need to shower daily and when you decide to
shower daily is not always immediately. You know, those milestones
don't actually happen at the same time all the time.
Oh my goodness.
Speaker 2 (19:21):
And even before they don't want you in there, there's
a point where you can send them like it's so
much nicer to be on vacation and be like Genevieve,
go take a shower. Versus like, Okay, I'm gonna have
to micromanage this shower like you, especially when they don't
have a tub or something like that in a hotel room.
Speaker 1 (19:35):
It's just nice. Yeah, no, very very true. And with
that doing their own hair, I mean this is less
of a thing for me. I guess you have multiple girls, yeah,
do not do her own hair.
Speaker 2 (19:46):
So like I have one kid who is like Annaba
broke her finger and I had to do her hair
and I was like, wow, I really haven't done this
in many, many years, Like I don't know when this happened,
but I have not been doing your hair. And she
does her hair quite nice, so you probably better than
I do. So yeah, that that one's big because that
can be time consuming and sometimes not the most quality
time you're spending with your kid because you're trying to.
Speaker 1 (20:05):
Brush out knots, and not everybody enjoys that. So yeah, yeah,
Well I have four boys who have chosen to wear
their hair more on the shorter side. If somebody wanted
to wear their hair longer, I would be all right
with that, but you know, they've generally been fine with
it being on the shorter side, which means there's never
been any doing the hair. I mean, you know, I
wash Henry's hair in the bath when he takes one,
(20:27):
And that's about the extent of my hair involvement.
Speaker 3 (20:29):
Now.
Speaker 1 (20:29):
Obviously Ruth was at some point a smaller girl with
longer hair, but I guess I was never really that
kind of mom. Her hair is pretty fine, as these
says they say us.
Speaker 2 (20:42):
The hair type thing, because my kid's hair would be
like in a big snarl, that would like we'd have
to cut it off their head.
Speaker 3 (20:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:47):
No, I mean as long as it was washed fairly
regularly and then brushed, and then you know, you could
put it in a ponytail or whatever. I don't have
the skill to braid things extensively. We've had a few
you nanny's and babysitters over the years who have much
better expertise in that area, and they've done some cool
things with her hair. But that's one thing where I
(21:08):
could just admire other people's skills. And when she's with me,
it's in a ponytail. But now she's old enough she
does her own things. Obviously she's thirteen, she's been doing
her own hair for years. Love it.
Speaker 2 (21:19):
How about when they can engage in conversation and you're like,
this is like a fun dinner party, Like I'm actually
having like a real thoughtful conversation and valuing your interesting perspectives.
Speaker 1 (21:31):
Oh yeah, when you could talk to your kids and
it's not like you're talking to a kid, like you're
actually having a conversation with a person. Yeah, Yeah, that's
a milestone that kind of sneaks up on you and
you realize, like, hey, we're hanging out in the kitchen
having a conversation, like two normal people having like this.
You know, I was cooking with Ruth the other daily baking.
(21:52):
I'm sort of like this is almost like, you know,
if I had a girlfriend here baking something with me.
I mean, obviously we're still parent a child, but you're
just having a fun conversation with each other, enjoying the time.
And yeah, that can kind of sneak up on you too. Now,
some children are more introverted than others, so it could
be harder to engage some people in a conversation than others.
(22:14):
But you know, if it's a topic they like, and
so if you do the work to figure that out,
then you can have a really cool conversation with them too.
Speaker 2 (22:21):
Yeah, or they may know a lot more about something
than you do all of a sudden, and you're like, oh,
I will learn from this tween or teen, like that's amazing.
Speaker 1 (22:29):
Yeah, that's awesome. All right, Well let's take one more
quick ad break and then we'll be back with some
more positive parenting milestones. We'll be all right back to
the kitchen. Yeah, yeah, back to the kitchen, Sarah. What
(22:51):
else is a milestone for you in the kitchen?
Speaker 2 (22:53):
Yeah, when they can cook and they like it legitimately
is good. Cameron is like the omelet master in our house. Actually,
to be honest, he's surpassing. But I think in terms of,
like she's going to a cooking camp this summer, so
I don't know, like like.
Speaker 1 (23:08):
You can have them compete this summer. You could be
the happy beneficiary of that exactly. Yeah. No, I mean
I have enjoyed, like Ruth will do baking projects and
things like that. But even just when the kids are
able to produce their own food when they are hungry
and it doesn't have to involve you, Now, for some
(23:28):
children this would lead to only eating crackers. So even
if they are technically old enough to be producing some
of their own food, you sort of have to monitor it.
But yeah, like if you know your teenage boys get
hungry all the time, there's just like I don't know,
it's like six meals a day or something, but they
I don't have to be responsible for most of them.
(23:49):
You know, if you get hungry, you just scramble yourself eggs,
or you make yourself mac and cheese, or you start
the oven and make a pizza. I mean, there's just
all sorts of things you can do on your own,
and that milestone is excellent. I still cooking family dinners
a lot of time, but yeah, other extra meal food
is not necessarily your concern.
Speaker 2 (24:11):
No, It's true, like on the weekends, I don't necessarily
know what the bigger kids eat for lunch. Yeah yeah,
but genevieb iy do and it takes work and it's fine.
But like, yeah, interesting to know that that changes, all right?
Speaker 1 (24:22):
Driving double edged sword, Yeah, well that's that's kind of
a ways beyond all of these just I mean, because
of the laws on it, and I think in a
lot of states it's more graduated licensing. So even if
so in some places people can get their license at sixteen,
in some other states you can get Like in Pennsylvania,
(24:42):
you can get a permit at sixteen, and then you
have to have six months of driving experience before you
can get your license, So it winds up happening a
little bit later than it might have elsewhere. But yeah,
I mean, just having another driver opens up another dimension.
Often I think of the schedules of many people and
going lots of places being somewhat like chess here you
(25:04):
have to like think through the various moves. But when
you have another driver, it just opens up another angle
that you can take. And so it's like having a
kid who can stay home alone, or a kid who
can stay home with a younger sibling. It just adds
a level of flexibility that makes the game a lot
easier to figure out. And so like when Michael and
(25:27):
I were going out for something on a Friday night
and we had left Michael and Ruth and no not
my sorry, Jasper and Ruth and Alex were at home,
and now Henry was off he has a Friday night sitter,
but they were off at her place, right, so, and
Sam was off at something and I was like, well,
(25:49):
are we going to make it back from this thing
where we are at at a time, and then I'm like,
but we don't have to be I could send Jasper
out to get Sam and Ruth would still be there
with Alex. It's like I have the babysitter and I
have the driver and it's all good. Like it's new vistas.
New vistas have opened up in terms of figuring out
everyone's schedule. Of course, I mean that the driving can
(26:12):
go wrong. I mean, knock on woods. I know people
have had many things happen obviously, you know, scary things.
They're even just like somebody hitting your mailbox, like let's
you know, there's many many options that can happen with
a new drivers. But it is a milestone, and it
is if you have a well trained and safe driver,
which hopefully you are encouraging your young drivers to be
(26:34):
so in working with them to become so it does
open up some possibilities as a milestone.
Speaker 2 (26:40):
So kind of like on that note, teens in general,
I can't comment much having no teens officially yet although
very soon, but you have a bunch, so.
Speaker 1 (26:49):
Yeah, I love teenagers. I think they're great, and it's
not just because they're my kids, like I actually really
kind of like their friends too. I mean you know,
they're just good kids that have chosen friends well for
the most part. But I think it's like there are
a lot of really cool young people out there in
the world, and it's so exciting to get the see
them develop their own personalities and figure out their way
(27:12):
in the world and what they want to do. And
they're not quite as jaded as older people in Cynical
and so that's sort of fun. And yeah, they had
still their lives in front of them, and I really
enjoy that. And I think this is a key thing
because a lot of the just You Wait is about
how teenagers are going to be terrible, and I think
(27:33):
in some ways I've really lucked out. I also really
make a point, and this is more conscious of not
getting upset about little things, and I think that can
help a lot if you want to enjoy the teenage
years more like getting upset about dishes. Being in a bedroom,
for instance, might not be really worth getting upset about.
(27:57):
Or I'm trying to think of other things. It wouldn't
be so specific here, but you know, like one bad
grade is not the end of the world, or if
somebody if you have booked something wonderful for the child
and the first phrase out of their mouth is not
thank you, wonderful mother. I am so appreciative of this.
(28:18):
It's sort of more of a grunt because they're still
focused on something else. You don't need to fly off
the handle about that either. You can just trust that
in a little bit they'll be more excited about it,
and you just wait for that. Life with teenagers is great.
Speaker 2 (28:30):
Another major game changer has been the moment when I
feel like I can leave the kids at home without
getting a babysitter, even just for like a short like oh,
I'm dropping one kid off it sports practice, and I
can leave the other two home. And that's been relatively
recent for us, and I've been surprised at how life
changing and freeing it feels. And as someone who has
a lot of childcare already, I can only imagine it
(28:51):
being amazing when you don't have someone that you're hiring
full time.
Speaker 1 (28:57):
Yeah, I mean this is it's certainly been something for us.
It probably took me longer to get to this point.
And I don't know if it's just because, well, partly,
Jasper turned sort of babysitting age during COVID, so we
weren't really going as many places during that time as
we might have anyway, for like the first two years
until I was like fourteen, fifteen years old, and then
(29:17):
I hadn't really and we still had a very little
kid at that point, and so I'm not sure. You know,
a lot of teenage babysitters did not that big on
following a toddler everywhere and changing diapers and things like that.
But once Henry was potty trained, I was like, oh wait,
I actually have at this point three babysitters in the house,
(29:37):
and especially if they trade off, it is much more
feasible for them to do even reasonable stretches of time.
And we haven't been gone that long with them just
because of we're still getting our heads around the idea.
But so I would say the max was like Michael
and my going out to dinner for a while, and
(29:58):
then huge, but that was cuge. You know, we'd go
local in case we needed to get home, but it
was like a major milestone. And then like this winter,
We're taking Sam with us to go to one of
the Eagles games, and I had booked a sitter because
I was like, Okay, well it's gonna be six hours,
Like that's kind of a long time to ask the
other kids, so you know, especially it's their weekend like it.
(30:21):
But then she got sick and I was like, Okay,
what do I do? And so I was like, okay, guys,
you too, split it. Jasper and Ruth, you guys can
split it so you could both go do something else
if you want to during the other three hours, and
I will pay you like a good going rate for
a sitter. And so they did it and it was fine,
(30:42):
Like it was absolutely fine, and you know, I checked
in with them by phone on occasion, but you know,
we were able to be gone for that amount of
time and Henry was fine and he even got dinner.
They made him dinner, so like, yay, yeah, it worked.
It worked.
Speaker 2 (30:59):
I mean because they're definitely old enough to babysit other kids.
Speaker 1 (31:03):
We were sitting it totally be higher. I was babysitting
for all sorts of people and like by seventeen, yeah,
I mean, that's like definitely old enough to do. But
I don't know, it's just like you don't have your
own mindset of that, and then you realize, oh, yeah,
they are like definitely old enough to be doing this.
That is awesome.
Speaker 2 (31:20):
How about sleeping in on weekends.
Speaker 1 (31:22):
Oh my goodness, we don't get to a milestone. You
should definitely, although we joke about this because I feel
like a lot of adults, just as your children starts
sleeping in on the weekend, like you become unable to
sleep in anymore. Like you are.
Speaker 2 (31:37):
I could sleep in still, like, because I get up
so early the rest of the time if I want
to sleep in, And when I say sleep in, I
mean like eight yeah, But I mean don't don't you
have to.
Speaker 1 (31:47):
Like go to the bathroom after like seven and a
half hours?
Speaker 3 (31:51):
No.
Speaker 2 (31:52):
I mean I feel like sometimes I would go to
about them earlier so I could really fall back asleep.
But I guess what I'm getting at is we're not
there because Genevieve always wakes up like.
Speaker 1 (32:02):
Well, and a lot of people sort of circadian rhythms
shift as they become older. That's why we joke about
like senior citizens having dinner at four thirty because they're up,
you know, early in the morning, so the day is
like over by seven pm. But it's true, like your
circadian rhythms do shift, and so around the time that
your kids are sleeping in, you develop like you can't
sleep in anymore, and it's sort of annoying that is,
(32:23):
I can still sleep till about like eight. Yeah, I
can make it to eight, and your kids do too.
That kids do too, So on a weekend morning, if
we don't have to be anywhere early, which is its
own thing, like there are all sorts of ridiculous like
tournaments that start at seven thirty in the morning. But
if we don't have to be somewhere and I don't
set an alarm, like I will probably wake up on
(32:44):
my own and it won't necessarily be a kid that's
waking me up, Like I will probably be up before
anyone else in the household, and that's kind of huge,
or even just during the week, like the fact that
I'm setting an alarm, like there was definitely a time
in my life where the alarm was kind of a
superfluous extra check on the morning to make sure that
we didn't completely miss school work whatever. But like Alex
(33:04):
was up at five point forty five in the morning
for years, and now he is not. He's definitely not
up five, or if he is, he can go get
his own iPad and deal with it himself, Like it's
not my problem.
Speaker 2 (33:14):
This is oh my gosh, in those baby days, Like
the first day that you get woken up by your
alarm instead of the baby, that is like so sweet.
Speaker 1 (33:21):
Well, I heard a milestone from somebody who like actually
missed work, like maybe I were late to work one
morning because the first time it happened, like they were
just not prepared for that reality that it could ever happen, right,
you know that the kids had been waking up for
so long, and then they're like and probably like, you
know what worth it? I'm seven thirty train. Yeah, so
(33:42):
it can happen. It will happen to you at some point,
so you know, eventually you do need to start setting
the alarm. But it's pretty sweet, all right.
Speaker 3 (33:51):
Media, Like when kids shows don't stink when they want
to watch stuff that you actually want to watch, and
you're not just compromising because you know it'll keep every
kid happy, but you're actually legit interested in the TV
show or movie or whatever.
Speaker 1 (34:06):
Yeah, because you guys all liked Wicked, for instance, right,
I mean I love that.
Speaker 2 (34:11):
I mean maybe that's a more kid angled one, but
I mean I legit wanted to see that, and legit
wanted to see it again, so that's a great example, yeah.
Speaker 1 (34:20):
For us. The upside is that when the kids have
gotten old enough to watch stuff with Michael that I
definitely do not want to watch, which is great because
then he can go to a superhero movie with somebody
who is not me, and if he wants to watch
Game of Thrones, which I really did not want to watch.
I don't like violence and stuff like that anyway. So
(34:41):
there have been teenage boys watching Game of Thrones with
him and they can all get into it and it's
not anything I need to deal with. So that's a
wonderful parenting milestone too, totally.
Speaker 2 (34:51):
And for the record, I have not watched Game of
Thrones either. Oh no, okay. I have one last one
that I'm adding on, which is that you get to
a point when your kid will be like, I'm sick
on a school day and you're like, okay, because they
can stay home either by themselves or with you. And
that's spawned by the fact that Cameron is right now
homesick and I am sad that he's coughing, and I
(35:12):
feel bad, but I'm able to do the things I
need to do, versus back in the day i'd have
to call in more childcare. I mean, our nanny would come,
but like I didn't even have to bother her.
Speaker 1 (35:24):
It's like we're fine. Yeah, yeah, when older kids can
stay home, and I mean if they're not like a
death store. I mean, obviously, if somebody is like very
very ill, you probably want to be checking on them.
But yes, a cough or you know, sleeping off, tummy
troubles the day before is something that an older kid
can kind of deal with. On another OWD, and with that,
I would point out that there comes a point where
(35:46):
a child recognizes that they are about to be sick.
And that is a beautiful moment too. As we talk
about the wonder of winter and the winter germs and
the Nora virus thing that goes through your whole household,
some children are able to recognize that's about to happen,
get themselves to a bathroom, and there's a lot less mess,
(36:07):
and that is wonderful.
Speaker 2 (36:08):
Yes, absolutely one of the best milestones there.
Speaker 1 (36:11):
Are those best milestones there possibly could be with parenting.
All right, So on that note, Sarah, moving on, we
can go ahead and get to our question for the week.
Do you want to read this? Do you want me to? Sure?
Speaker 2 (36:27):
So this person, I'll summarize, right, they were listening to
our airtight task management episode. I wanted to know when
we get our personal and family task done, Like if
you had a task that might take a bunch of
hours to complete, is this and after kids are in
bed on weekends kind of situation. This person's just kind
of wondering where to fit that in.
Speaker 1 (36:46):
So Laura, yeah, well, this is definitely a problem for
It's a different answer if you have sort of flexible
job versus if you don't have a very flexible job.
And so I can tell you what I do, which
is I just put the bigger tasks on my priority
list for the and I just assigned them a time. So,
since I work for myself and it is often easier
to do these things when you are sitting at your
(37:07):
desk with your laptop, with your planner, with your phone,
I will probably do them during my work hours. I
try to choose time that's not my peak focused creativity time.
Like when I had to send invitations to a kid's
birthday party and I had to look up a lot
of email addresses to get them on the paperless post invite.
I did that at like three thirty pm on an afternoon, right, like,
(37:30):
that was something I carved out time to do that for.
Then I keep a running punch list and I try
to get through those sometimes on Friday. Lately, I'm not
sure what's been happening. My Fridays have been had stuff
and they've been shorter than they should be, So I
don't know what's happening with that, but I will do
at some other point. I have my running punch list,
or even make myself a weekend to do list and
(37:51):
say there's you know, I'm going to do an hour
of work on this. If you have a less flexible job,
obviously you cannot just you know, be like I'm going
to stop seeing patients at three thirty and do my
personal punch list, or I'm going to stop driving this
bus at four o'clock and do my personal punch list. Like, yeah,
obviously there's many things that this is not going to work.
But I think it's important to recognize that it is
(38:13):
work and it does take time. So you do need
to build some time into your life so as you're
planning your week, you can kind of triosh keep a
running list and triosh what has to happen during business
hours and what does not. If there's something that doesn't
have to happen during business hours, you might try carving
out like thirty forty five minutes two evenings a week
or on the weekend when you're trading off with your
partner or whatever, that you do it. Then if it
(38:34):
does need to be during business hours, either dedicate a
lunch to it, or if your business hours don't entirely
overlap with like eight to five, Like maybe you start
work at nine, maybe you could do eight to nine
one morning a week where you get through some of
that stuff. Or if you work eight to four but
you can pick up your kids as late as five
thirty at daycare, maybe you carve out one day a
(38:56):
week where you do it from four to five thirty.
And you can't necessarily do it on your employer's equipment, right,
Like I'm not saying you have to do it on
your work computer, but like go somewhere, like go to
a coffee shop with your phone and your planner and
make it happen. That's what you can do.
Speaker 2 (39:10):
Yeah, I mean, I my schedule is definitely less flexible,
even on my flexible days, I think because I don't
have very many flexible days. My flexible days become really
unflexible really fast, because I booked.
Speaker 1 (39:21):
Every interview and every thing and I can't move it.
Speaker 2 (39:24):
I do a lot of opportunists, and I feel like
the more urgent the thing is, the more I will
find a pocket time to get it done in. Sometimes
that's a weekend, like a weekend afternoon. It doesn't mean
we're only doing drudgery. There's still time to do fun
stuff and also get some work done. Sometimes it's lunchtime
at work. Sometimes a patient will know show. So there
are probably equivalents to that, and whatever your industry is,
(39:45):
where you just have a pocket of time. Someone cancels
a meeting and you know what, if you work on
that home thing for thirty minutes, probably you know it
wouldn't impact anything. And we know from our Patreon group
that many full time, very corporate working women spend some
of that work time.
Speaker 1 (40:00):
I'm doing these personal things, so sometimes that will work.
Your mileage maybury.
Speaker 2 (40:03):
And then also other pockets are like, oh, you're picking
up a kid at seven from dance, but you have
to drive across town and you don't want to go
home first. You're gonna be stuck in the car, so
like what can you get done? So looking for those
windows of opportunity and always kind of knowing what is
the most urgent so you can triage effectively.
Speaker 1 (40:21):
Yeah, all right, Sarah Love of the Week, What is
your love this week?
Speaker 2 (40:26):
Well, this one is inspired by the topic, which is
that I love it when you're well.
Speaker 1 (40:31):
We had a great playground birthday party.
Speaker 2 (40:33):
Not we we didn't throw it, but we attended one
where a I knew all the parents because the kids
have been together for years and be the kids are
all old enough that we could just let them entertain
themselves and they did and it was just.
Speaker 1 (40:44):
Like super relaxing. Yeah, no, that's great. There's certain things
that make teen independence easier than others. Obviously, it's harder
if you're not in a walkable area because then they
have to drive in order to get around. So you
still providing rides places until they're sixteen and a half
or something, and so that sort of postpones things a
(41:06):
little bit. But one thing I have found makes it
convenient for kids to go places on their own if
they need to pay for stuff is Apple Pay like
on their phones, just that you can put a credit
card on their phone. If they need it for something,
they can use it. And maybe there are things you
agree that they pay you back for, but they have
access to a payment tool at a time that they
(41:27):
might need it, So then you're not constantly asking do
you have cash on you? Like where kids don't like
to carry wallets or purses. I don't know what it
is kids these days, but so they don't have like
where are you putting your money? Like where would you
put your drivers? I said, I don't know anyway, But
that said, they at least have a way to pay
without a credit card falling out of their pocket or
(41:49):
cash falling out of their coat pocket or getting left
in the car wherever. So yeah, it's a benefit of it.
Love it all right? Well, this has been best of
both worlds. We are talking positive parenting milestones because just
you wait, it's gonna be great. We will be back
next week with more on making work and life fit together.
Speaker 2 (42:09):
Thanks for listening. You can find me Sarah at the
shoebox dot com or at the Underscore Shoebox on Instagram,
and you.
Speaker 1 (42:17):
Can find me Laura at Laura vandercam dot com. This
has been the best of both worlds. Podcasts. Please join
us next time for more on making work and life
work together.
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