July 15, 2025 • 35 mins
In today’s episode, Laura interviews Kristen Holmes, a senior White House correspondant for CNN who just had her second child in Janaury (meaning she spent most of the presidential campaign last year pregnant!). She shares her strategies for combining pregnancy, early parenthood, and work while on a big public-facing career track.
In the Q&A, a listener asks about age spacing - is there any particular challenge (or upside) to having kids farther part, such as an age gap over 4 years?
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
Hi.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
I'm Laura Vanderkamp. I'm a mother of five, an author, journalist,
and speaker.
Speaker 3 (00:15):
And I'm Sarah Hart Hunger, a mother of three, practicing physician, writer,
and courtse creator. We are two working parents who love
our careers and our families.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Welcome to best of both worlds. Here we talk about
how real women manage work, family, and time for fun.
From figuring out childcare to mapping out long term career goals.
We want you to get the most out of life.
Welcome to best of both worlds. This is Laura. This
episode is airing in July of twenty twenty five. I
(00:46):
am going to be interviewing Kristin Holmes, who is a
senior White House correspondent for CNN. She just had her
second child in January of twenty twenty five, which means
she has spent most of the presidential campaign last year
into his on their road covering that pregnant. And that's
obviously an interesting angle of combining work in life. People
(01:08):
often talk a lot about combining parenthood and work, but
combining pregnancy work is its own special version of this,
particularly if you have a fairly intense job with irregular
hours or a lot of travel or things like this.
I mean, so Sarah, you're in a traditional job during
your pregnancies, you have strategies that helped you with managing this.
Speaker 3 (01:31):
Yeah, I mean, pregnancies vary, right, and I definitely think
the kind of pregnancy you have is greatly going to
impact how much you have to adjust your work or
how much is going to impact you. I really only
had bad first trimesters. And as I say bad, I
mean I think I vomited like once each pregnancy, So
not that bad, and that's really really lucky. So for me,
(01:55):
I didn't really have to do very much. There was
so much more I had to I mean the postpartum
and the pumping phase that I could do a whole
episode on how incredibly hard it was and the things
I did to get through and how stressful and everything.
But the pregnancy time itself, I didn't really make any
specific concessions that I remember. And in fact, even during
(02:16):
like the nausea months, I was like, ooh, distraction, Like
the more I focus on something else that's not my nausea, like,
the better off I actually am. Even though I might
feel like I'm dragging myself through the day sitting on
the couch wasn't any more pleasant.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
But again, I've.
Speaker 3 (02:29):
Had residents that have had complicated pregnancies. Some people have
a ton of pain with their break So this is
all your mileage may vary.
Speaker 2 (02:37):
I do have fond.
Speaker 3 (02:37):
Memories of leading a tour group of residents when I
was thirty nine weeks and two days pregnant and being
like anything could happen today, And like when I've spoken
to those people years down the road, they remember it
kind of fondly as well.
Speaker 1 (02:50):
So there can be bright spot.
Speaker 2 (02:53):
Yeah, Well, remembering back to my last one, which was
in twenty nineteen. At this point, but I was doing
a lot of speaking. This was right before COVID. We
didn't know that COVID was coming. But in twenty nineteen
happened to be a very speaking heavy year, which was
also when I was pregnant with him, so I was
doing a lot of traveling. I remember one May speech
(03:14):
when I was like newly pregnant or just found out,
I mean, almost fainting on my way up to the stage.
It was a hot day in New York City. I
was woozy, woozy, woozy, and it was not good, but
I did it. I remember eating a lot of cinnabon
in airports like I was. That was something that didn't
(03:34):
turn my stomach, and so I was like, I'm going
to eat a lot of cinnabon. I not nutritious necessarily,
but if you can keep it down and not feel
like it's terrible. I also remember lying in hotel bedrooms
watching TV, like being very, very tired at the end
of the day because you sort of manage your energy
(03:55):
to do what you have to do and then just
kind of collapse at the end of it. I was like, Okay,
I could just watch the NBA playoffs. I can watch
the home renovation shows here lying on my bed and
then getting in the aisle seat on the plane. I
remember once I for some reason, did not have an
(04:16):
aisle seat. I had a window seat, and I was terrible.
I had to get up multiple times in the course
of this flight. The people were very understanding, or one
person next to me. It was one person next men.
He's very understanding. He'd like kept being like, oh yeah, yeah,
he would like hop up every time I got up,
even though there's enough space for me to get past,
you know.
Speaker 3 (04:33):
But it was a yeah, that's what it was. Easier
to be visibly pregnant because you're last. Please feel bad
for me.
Speaker 2 (04:39):
Feel bad for me. Cinnabon's interesting for me.
Speaker 3 (04:41):
It was like salty, like ramen and chips, And yeah,
I do think you should honor whatever it is because
whatever it is probably a reason.
Speaker 2 (04:49):
Maybe or just I mean, cinnabons are good. So there's
that too. You need a little reward for getting yourself
through the day. All right, Well, we'll hear what Chris
Holmes has to say. So Sarah and I are excited
to have Kristen Holmes with us today. So Kristin, welcome
to the show.
Speaker 1 (05:07):
Thank you for having me. I'm so excited to be here.
Speaker 2 (05:09):
Yeah, we are excited to have you as well. So
why don't you tell our listeners a little bit about yourself.
Speaker 4 (05:14):
I am the senior White House correspondent at CNN, and
I am the mother of two. We have a three
and a half year old boy and a five month old,
almost five month old little girl.
Speaker 2 (05:27):
Awesome. So she was born in what January?
Speaker 1 (05:30):
Maybe is that one January fourteenth?
Speaker 2 (05:32):
Exactly? Are you back at work now? Are you back
from eternity?
Speaker 4 (05:35):
Least? I've been back about a month, so still getting
my sea legs, even though a month seems like a
lot of time, but it's definitely not.
Speaker 2 (05:42):
No, of course, of course, And so maybe you could
talk a little bit about your career and how you
got started into this. So what drew you to journalism.
Maybe I saw you did the official Northwestern and Columbia
combo for school, right.
Speaker 1 (05:58):
Yeah, So I really did know what I wanted to
do from it early.
Speaker 4 (06:01):
You know, it doesn't seem like that if you look
just at my resume, but I wasn't sure. And my
mom had been a journalist, and she kind of put
the idea in my head that I was really good
at speech and debate and I could turn that into
a career in some way, and we started looking at
broadcast TV. And I actually spent two years after college
(06:22):
going and doing Teacher.
Speaker 1 (06:23):
For America in Chicago.
Speaker 4 (06:25):
So that was part of the reason I went back
to school, was because I knew if you wanted like
an entry level job, some of these jobs you really
needed connections to get and I felt like the best
way to do that was actually going down to a
journalism school and meeting people who were coming adjunct professors
and various people. And that's actually how I got the
job at CNN. I met at the time the executive
(06:46):
producer of Peers Morgan's show in an elevator. He was
with his son, who was adorable, and I just started
talking to his son.
Speaker 1 (06:54):
I had no idea who he was.
Speaker 4 (06:55):
He was there for a career fair, but I hadn't
spoken to him, and by the end of the elevator ride,
he asked me if I had any interest in interning
for the show, and I said yes, and that turned
into me starting at an entry level position producing in
New York for Piers Morgan. And I just really wanted
to get down to DC and I didn't know what
(07:17):
to do. And I'm not really a risky person, like
I don't take a lot of leaps.
Speaker 1 (07:22):
I married someone.
Speaker 4 (07:22):
Who takes a lot of leaps, so I feel like
it balances out, but I do not. So I didn't
have a formal job in DC at CNN, and I
met with the woman who's actually now running MSNBC, Rebecca Cutler,
and she was at CNN at the time. Just asked
her like what she thought I should do, and she
said to take the risk.
Speaker 1 (07:40):
That it will all line up.
Speaker 4 (07:43):
So I had like a very preliminary freelance booking offer
from CNN, and I just took it, and I decided
I would live with my parents for a little bit.
Speaker 1 (07:53):
They had moved to DC.
Speaker 4 (07:54):
I was raised in Oklahoma, but they had moved to
DC and I stayed with them. And then I really
wanted to transition to doing on air stuff and it's
obviously very difficult.
Speaker 1 (08:04):
It was also a whole different world done.
Speaker 4 (08:06):
I mean, now we do a lot of stuff where
we promote reporters who are print background and then put
them on TV.
Speaker 1 (08:11):
That wasn't really happening at that time.
Speaker 4 (08:14):
So I beg beg begged for a job at the
local affiliate here in DC, weekend cable access station. And
first they're like, we have nothing, and then I was like,
I will work literally any hours. And I was still
freelancing at CNN, and they were like, okay, well we
don't have someone at five am on Saturdays and Sundays.
Speaker 1 (08:36):
So for roughly a year, at five.
Speaker 4 (08:39):
Am, I would go into ABC seven, but it wasn't
even ABC seven, like it wasn't good enough to be
ABC seven.
Speaker 1 (08:45):
It was like their cable access channel.
Speaker 4 (08:48):
And I would take a camera out and I would
go to crime scenes and just kind of try to piece.
Speaker 1 (08:53):
The story together.
Speaker 4 (08:55):
And eventually I had this really awesome producer who there
who was like, you're not technically allowed to go live,
but we really need somebody, so why don't we just
like not tell anybody because no one's watching anyway, so
you can go.
Speaker 1 (09:12):
And that really started everything.
Speaker 4 (09:13):
So I was working seven days a week, half at CNN,
half there, and then CNN told me that they wanted
to eventually pursue possibly a career in broadcast, but if
to do so, they wanted me to go to the
White House and be a producer there, and that I
couldn't do any of the on air stuff anymore because
I had to be full time. So I did it,
and shortly after I went on the campaign in twenty sixteen,
(09:34):
and they CNN really followed through. I mean, I broke stories,
I was a producer, I was of the top correspondent Benjabacosta,
and I did kind of hits some one else wanted
to do on TV the weird hours the week, early mornings,
and that parlayed into the on air stuff where I
(09:55):
went to what we have affiliate program called News Source
that's really meant to like def up your on air skills,
and I got to cover really cool stuff, like I
went to Guam when there was the threat of a
nuclear attack from North Korea. I went to the Royal wedding,
Megan and Harry's wedding. I did a lot of like
very awesome stuff that I'm probably never going to do again.
Speaker 1 (10:14):
I always say, like, this is the only person who
does that, like that many cool things with Anderson Cooper
so like, but it was really fun and now I am.
Speaker 4 (10:24):
Since then, it's transitioned and I have absolutely loved it,
and I've loved covering politics and did the campaign the
last cycle and I covered Donald Trump and then they
made me the senior.
Speaker 1 (10:35):
White House correspondent.
Speaker 2 (10:36):
Amazing. Well, I want to back up a little bit
to this teach for America stint in here, because you
were middle school in Chicago. Is that what you were?
Speaker 1 (10:44):
It was like middle school, elementary school in Chicago.
Speaker 2 (10:46):
Okay, I'm very curious if you learned any skills from
that that have been helpful in your life.
Speaker 4 (10:51):
Now, I will tell you that there is no job
that I've ever done that was harder than that.
Speaker 1 (10:56):
And I remember afterwards, I mean I cried a lot.
I cried a lot, and.
Speaker 4 (11:00):
I didn't have any I mean, when I was twenty two,
I didn't have any experience other than babysitting.
Speaker 1 (11:06):
I had some kids who were amazing and wonderful.
Speaker 4 (11:09):
But also very difficult, like behaviorally, and I didn't have
a lot of experience with that. But the one thing
that I learned from that job that has really taken
me through the rest of my life is patience. And
I think that I did not have an extraordinary amount
of patience. My parents didn't really have an extraordinary amount
(11:30):
of patience when I was growing up and everything was.
Speaker 1 (11:33):
Supposed to be go, go go.
Speaker 4 (11:34):
And I still remember like the moment that I kind
of like changed in my head and I was with
these kids that we were in thirteen fifth graders and
they didn't know how to tell time. And I was
staying after school every day with these kids to tutor
them because they're super behind in a bunch of different things.
But all of a sudden, I realized they didn't understand clocks.
(11:56):
And we sat there one day for like three hours
and it just wasn't getting through. And I just remember
being like, Okay, let's try it again, and it was
just like this moment of like there is nothing I
can do in the second to change what is going
on other than to keep trying. And I can't get
mad because it's no one's fault and I just need
(12:19):
to come up with a new strategy to try and
make this work for these kids. And I did, and
I just kept at it, and it was like this
kind of bulb switched off in my head that was
like there's no other option but to be patient. And
that has just carried through because it's just we live
these lives that are so high stress, high intensity, and
(12:42):
you sometimes just have to take a moment and be like, Okay,
we got to be patient.
Speaker 1 (12:46):
We got to see what the future holds.
Speaker 4 (12:49):
Maybe this is not where we really want to be
right now, but like, you got to be patient. And
that was the skill set, the greatest skill set I
took away from that experience absolutely.
Speaker 2 (12:57):
All Right, Well, we're going to take a quick ad
break and then I'll be back with more from Kristen Holmes. Well,
I am back talking with Kristin Holmes, who is the
senior White House correspondent for CNN. So, Kristin, we have
(13:21):
a lot of people who listen to the show who
are professional women who are raising young kids. I'm getting
very much the sense that being a on air correspondent
is not exactly a nine to five sort of Monday
through Friday kind of job, which we're going to get
to doing that job while during your second pregnancy here,
(13:43):
but you also have a three year old, so you
were doing all this. You've been doing this job with
a young child. You said your husband is also I
believe at CNN, so he probably doesn't have normal hours either.
Speaker 1 (13:58):
He's actually at.
Speaker 4 (13:59):
The fire department now he is the chief Yes, he's
a chief communications officer for the firearms, so he was.
Speaker 2 (14:04):
He was primarily, but he has moved to a different
job now. But still none of this is.
Speaker 1 (14:07):
Like straight regular hours.
Speaker 2 (14:10):
So how have you guys managed that? Like the logistics
of child Karen, who's with your son, Like, well, you're
out doing random hours and he is as well.
Speaker 4 (14:22):
So this has been like an ongoing evolution and we're
still not there. I mean, I feel like I had
this realization now with two that this is going to
continue to be the evolution of our lives, Like we're
never going to have anything that is like a routine
for quite some time, maybe when they're a little older,
but definitely not for the next couple of years. So
(14:42):
what we have decided to do, and this was my
husband's idea after I've been on the campaign trail for
basically a year traveling and he was spent a lot
of time alone as solo parenting, which I am grateful
to him every second. Four so they know it wasn't
easy that you would get a no pair and it
has changed our lives.
Speaker 1 (15:04):
She's not even our primary childcare, but she is a
We kind of.
Speaker 4 (15:09):
View her as a mommy's helper, but also she is
literally like a sibling to our kids. It has made
me feel like I can pay attention to both of
my kids and do my job. I feel like it
has been a game changer for us in terms of
being able to still pay attention to our three and
(15:30):
a half year old, who is very demanding, who is
just learning and growing every second and I don't want
to miss a thing, but also not feel like I've
abandoned my newborn, which I know is a common feeling
that we have as women because there's so much focus
on your older kid and it's like, am.
Speaker 1 (15:47):
I doing enough?
Speaker 4 (15:48):
And so for us, this has been the solution, and
right now it's working again. I don't know what works forever,
but at this point it took a long time to
get here.
Speaker 1 (16:00):
But having her kind.
Speaker 4 (16:02):
Of be able to hold a baby while the baby's
still in the room when I can be home, or
also be able to run off and take a call
when I need to and not feel like my kids
are just sitting there, and I'm anxious that for us
has been the way that we've really figured out how
to manage this and it's been a positive solution.
Speaker 1 (16:24):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (16:24):
Absolutely. I mean we often talk on the show about
layering childcare, so I assume me you have something like
daycare or primary nanny, like for normal we do business hours.
Speaker 4 (16:34):
Yeah, her normal business as we have a primary nanny
and my son goes to a school, and with my
new hours at work, I am trying to take him
to camp this summer, but then school so that I
can work until eight pm. And because generally now I'm
not leaving the White House until eight pm, which means
I generally am going to miss the baby, which was
a hard realization, but like I've mentally gotten there, but
(16:57):
it took some time before she goes to bed, but
I will get that's I'm with my son. So we
have the primary nanny who will be with the baby
during the day as well as my son goes to
school camp, and then for the off hours in the
evening and the weekends we have and no pair.
Speaker 2 (17:13):
Excellent. Well that's what you have to do. And it's
like when people often start on their parenting journey, they
think like, okay, well one should work, but if you
have either parent working different hours, then you need more
than one layer.
Speaker 4 (17:27):
It was impossible for us, and really, honestly, I had
a conversation with CNN and with my husband and when
they offered me the job. They offer me the job
right after the campaign, and I said, in order to
be able to do this job the way that you're
going to want me to do it the way that
I want to do it, and be good at it
and enjoy it but also enjoy my children, like these
(17:47):
are the things that I'm going to have to do.
So when I put in my asks for you, I
need you to understand that it's coming from a place
of not living any kind of lavish lifestyle or anything
like that.
Speaker 1 (18:00):
I am literally looking.
Speaker 4 (18:02):
At this and thinking, how can my husband and I
make this work and raise two kids and let me
be good at my job. And that was the plan
and how we came up with it, and I felt
like I went to work with it and I said
this is what I'm I need and they were receptive.
Speaker 2 (18:18):
Yeah, well, it's it's kind of job where Yeah, I mean,
you say you're working till eight pm, but it's not
like you know that the news will be done by
eight pm, like coming out of the White House, and
what we could see, it could happen any hour of
the day with this.
Speaker 1 (18:30):
Particular calls to be made.
Speaker 4 (18:31):
I might not be physically there, but I mean over
the weekend, we were at an event and the National
Guard was brought into California and that required me to
make a series of phone calls that I was with
my kids and I had to step away.
Speaker 1 (18:48):
And that this whole.
Speaker 4 (18:50):
Environment that we've created is the only way that I
can do that without putting all of the burden on
my husband all the time, who also has a full
time job, which is hard.
Speaker 2 (18:59):
Yeaholute No, that's what we talk about on this show
all the time.
Speaker 1 (19:03):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (19:04):
And so you have a young baby now who's born
in January, and so a lot of people saw you
covering the presidential campaign over the last year. When did
you find out you were expecting a kid? Number two?
Speaker 4 (19:18):
There March March of twenty twenty four, and I actually
did not tell anyone for quite some time.
Speaker 1 (19:29):
It was easier to.
Speaker 4 (19:31):
Do because I was on the road so much that
like no one was looking at me, but I had
this was really my dream job before I got the
White House. Covering the campaign was my dream job. And
you know, as a woman who got pregnant and was
going to deliver in January right after the election, I
(19:51):
was concerned that.
Speaker 1 (19:53):
It might impact something, even just to put it out
there that I was pregnant.
Speaker 4 (19:57):
And I really was worried about that because again, like
I worked for this job, like it really was like
one of the greatest things I've ever done in my
whole life, but it was also probably the hardest thing
I've ever done.
Speaker 2 (20:10):
Well, I'm curious, what was your concern that people be like, well,
we don't want to see someone pregnant on the era
that you're gonna be do you know? It was danger
from anything.
Speaker 1 (20:18):
It was a timeline issue.
Speaker 4 (20:19):
It was a time show, so it was like, so okay,
So for example, I gave birth a week My initial
due date was inauguration day, twenty twenty five.
Speaker 1 (20:29):
So like it's Trump won, which we didn't know in
March what was gonna happen.
Speaker 4 (20:32):
But if he won, even if he didn't, what if
I wanted to cover the inauguration.
Speaker 1 (20:41):
What if they thought of me that way, or what.
Speaker 4 (20:43):
If for some reason they thought, well, she's not gonna
be able to travel after a certain time, so we
should just scheduling early. By the way, they were wonderful
when I told them they were wonderful. It was fine,
and there was none of all that was put to
the side. But in my mind, my concern was I
just to make it through November, right, And if they
(21:03):
think I can't make it through there because I'm too
pregnant to go on the road or I'm too pregnant
to keep doing this job and I might needed to
be home, that might impact even the way they subconsciously
think about me, And so I just that was my concern,
was that I just wanted to wait as long as
possible to where it was like, Okay, there's not really
any at that point.
Speaker 1 (21:20):
There was no way to like change the dynamics.
Speaker 2 (21:23):
Yeah, you already knew that Kristin was on the air covering,
so we're going to see Kristin through it to the end.
Speaker 4 (21:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (21:29):
Well, I don't know about you, but pregnancy for me
has never been a high energy time, So I'm curious
how you managed your schedule of flying around seeing the
various candidate events. I mean, it's presidential campaigns are grueling,
not only for the people who are doing them, but
obviously the people who are covering them too.
Speaker 1 (21:45):
I truly don't know.
Speaker 4 (21:47):
I look back on that time and I feel like
I was two different people. I feel like I was
the Kristin that was covering the campaign and also the
Kristin was pregnant with her second child. I compartmentalize, which
I don't know if it's healthy or not, but I did,
and it was the.
Speaker 1 (22:03):
Only way that I could get through it.
Speaker 4 (22:07):
When I stopped traveling the month before after the election,
but the month before she was born, it was like
my body just shut down. It was like I couldn't
I stopped being able to get up in the morning,
and I started like it was like I had taken
nine months of exhaustion and just powered through it. And
it just hit me like the second that I couldn't
(22:28):
get on a plane anymore. And I remember saying that
to my bosses and just saying like, I'm just so tired,
and they were like, you've been going one hundred miles
per hour for the last nine months.
Speaker 1 (22:38):
Of course you're tired.
Speaker 4 (22:40):
But I think that there was a part of me
that was like I promised my husband that at the
end of the campaign, I knew it was going to
be a really hardier that we would assess what my
next job was, no matter what they offered me, and
that I was not going to openly take any job
without a full blown discussion about childcare and our.
Speaker 1 (22:57):
Lives and all of that. So for me, it was
like the end of this is the election.
Speaker 4 (23:03):
It is or the inauguration and this baby being born,
because after that is a question mark still until we
see what the layout looks like and until we have
this conversation.
Speaker 1 (23:12):
So it was like I was able to just like look.
Speaker 4 (23:14):
At this timeframe and be like this, I have to
get through this. But like I said, like I toltally,
like the month before she was born, I was like
a wreck.
Speaker 1 (23:22):
I was sure done. I was done. I was done.
I was going about at like seven o'clock.
Speaker 2 (23:26):
I was like, it was like, all right, well, We're
gonna take one more quick ad break and I'll be
back with more from Kristen Holmes. Well, I am back
talking with Kristin Holmes, senior White House correspondent for CNN,
(23:49):
who has been talking about having a three year old
and also being pregnant on the campaign trail this last year.
But I've said, one of the things you have mentioned
is that you can't wait to tell your daughter about
some of the experiences you had to gather. I guess
because she was, of course with you the whole time
on the campag troot. I wonder if you have a
highlight or two that you can share with us.
Speaker 4 (24:09):
So I had this amazing producer on the campaign trail
who started with me right before I got pregnant, and
I always say that like she's part of the reason
that my daughter is still alive, like because she took
such good care of me, and like obviously, as you know,
it takes a village. And so we took photos of
me at like every stage of pregnancy in different places,
(24:30):
and the really fun one for us was in California.
Speaker 1 (24:36):
Trump went to go do a press conference, and it.
Speaker 4 (24:38):
Was the first time I was showing and we still
it was still like our secret the two of us.
I'm obviously my husband, but on the road from work,
and it just as this moment where we took all
these pictures of me like pregnant. I felt pregnant for
the first time, and we were kind of embracing it
because so much of it had been like go go, go,
go go, and we a little photo shoot and it
(25:01):
just was such a fun moment. And then I think
it was really cool on election night when we were
down there and just that we'd made it on like
she and I, my daughter and I had made it
on this journey, and that we were there standing there
waiting for the results and it was still like what's
going to happen tonight, but it was like that was
(25:22):
the finish line, and I just like we took pictures
there of me standing there and it was just, I
don't know, it was a really cool experience to be like, girl,
we made it together, Like here we are, it's the end,
Like we crossed the finish line.
Speaker 1 (25:36):
And those are probably the two biggest experiences.
Speaker 2 (25:38):
Yeah, I was just saying, it was funny, you're really
you're getting yourself to election day. There was at the
time some discussion like whether it would go on for
a long time, but it turned out it was quick.
It was that night.
Speaker 4 (25:49):
Yeah, yeah, yes, so and that was that was actually
great in the sense that we just we knew what
would happened, and then it was time to move.
Speaker 2 (25:56):
It was time to move on exactly. So how are
you or organizing things down newly back from maternity leave.
I know that's a big adjustment for people as well.
Speaker 1 (26:06):
I'm not You're not, okay, Yeah, I'm not. I bought
a planner. I was actually looking at it before I
came in here.
Speaker 2 (26:11):
How's the planner working for you?
Speaker 4 (26:13):
It's in the box, Okay, I'm taking out today.
Speaker 1 (26:15):
Okay.
Speaker 4 (26:17):
My biggest issue that I've had, I had the same
problem with my son, is that I do not have my.
Speaker 1 (26:23):
Full I still a foggy brain.
Speaker 4 (26:24):
Yeah and so, and I know this happens to everybody,
and I feel like, look, it'll come back in some sense,
maybe not fully, but I'll be able to remember things
in a way that I can't right now. And so
being organized is not really I need to figure out
a system for that.
Speaker 1 (26:40):
And I think the planner will help.
Speaker 4 (26:42):
But also we keep a calendar, a skylight calendar, and
that has been the most amazing thing we've ever done.
It's in our kitchen on the side, and that at
least like keeps us kind of vigilant and also aware
of what's going on, because neither my husband and I
are organized people. Just to be clear, we're that's not
our specialty, and so that has really helped as well.
(27:06):
I think the other thing I think about a lot,
and I'm sure every mom does, is you know how
I'm going to balance when my baby is not just
a baby right like, right now, our lives are about
our son, and the baby is someone we bring with
us to what our son is doing. And I spend
a lot of time thinking about how like best practices
and I still don't know the answer obviously, but of
(27:28):
how I can make sure that I figure out how
to live for two people and two different events and
all the stuff.
Speaker 1 (27:36):
Right now. It's it. It felt like.
Speaker 4 (27:38):
We finally got a handle on it with the three
year old, and now it's like that's just gone, like
we're starting we're starting over now. So it's yeah, So
the like long story long is that I don't have
a way to organize other than the Skylight calendar.
Speaker 1 (27:52):
And now I'll let you know how the planner goes.
Speaker 2 (27:54):
I hope it's a good planners behind this. Yeah, that's
the one perfect planner.
Speaker 1 (28:00):
It's going to change everything exactly.
Speaker 2 (28:01):
But we also do. But you know, it's honestly the
thing like, if you have more than one kid, you're
juggling between the two of them constantly anyway, And there's
this whole narrative about like, oh, well, work is on
the opposite side of kids, and I'm juggling that. But
it's like often the kids themselves. It's requiring you to
split the attention.
Speaker 4 (28:18):
Oh yeah, And I do want to say, is the
one thing about like the work versus kids?
Speaker 1 (28:22):
And I think this is something that.
Speaker 4 (28:24):
I feel like the younger generation is starting to do
and I'm trying to embrace this too, and I've tried
to with my son and now my daughter.
Speaker 1 (28:34):
Is this idea that like.
Speaker 4 (28:35):
It's okay to be a working mom. And I feel
like for my mom's generation, it was like, you don't
want to talk about the fact that you have kids,
because if you talk about the fact that you've kids.
Speaker 1 (28:46):
And people see you differently. And I'm of the mind
that none of us can.
Speaker 4 (28:50):
Actually do this without bringing up the fact that we
have kids. So if it means that I'm working until
nine pm, that might mean that my husband brings my
son to the office and we spend an hour together
and order dinner and sit there, and then he goes
home and goes to bed. And I don't really want
to live in a world in which I'm embarrassed or
(29:11):
nervous about that hour somehow impacting the way that other
people view me and my work product, because my work
product is really great and I'm trying to keep it going.
And so I really feel like we this generation need
to keep doing that for the younger women as well,
to be like, it's okay to have kids, It's okay
(29:33):
that your life is divided. It doesn't mean you're any
like any worse at your job or doesn't mean that,
oh my god.
Speaker 1 (29:38):
It just means you have a full life.
Speaker 4 (29:41):
And I just feel like it was really hard for
at least like in my mom's dinners.
Speaker 1 (29:44):
I mean, she even has said stuff to me. Well,
She's like, well, don't bring up the kids factor, and
it's like, but that is the factor. That's my whole thing.
Speaker 4 (29:52):
Like I'm a mom and I want to be a mom,
and I want it to be a mom and so
if I'm gonna do that, then like everybody should know
that that's what I'm doing as well as doing my job.
Speaker 2 (30:01):
Absolutely well, that's what we're we're all about here. Gant
aimen to that, well, Christ we always end with a
love of the week. You're saying your planner made me
think of my custom plumb planner. I love it. I
love it. I have like a planner stack. My co
host is massively into planners, by the way. But it
(30:22):
was a tie between that and Sweethearts, because I like
so love Sweethearts and I got a box that's amazing
and I'm just so happy to be snacking on that.
But what are you really enjoying this week? What's your
love of the week.
Speaker 4 (30:34):
We started solas this week, Oh excitly, And I got
to tell you that I did something that I'd never
done with my son, which does I need food for
like from scratch for the baby, which made me feel.
Speaker 1 (30:45):
Like I was super mom. By the way, You're like.
Speaker 2 (30:46):
Pioneer woman here.
Speaker 1 (30:47):
Exactly know.
Speaker 4 (30:48):
I was like in net shurning the butter No, and
so I think my love this week is just like
reliving that moment of because like we're so far beyond
it now with our three year old of what it's
like for her try things for the first time.
Speaker 1 (31:02):
And then obviously I'm hoping that my love of the
week will be my planner once I take it out
of the box and bring it to work today. That's
my second thing that will change my life completely.
Speaker 2 (31:09):
It'll change your life absolutely, the little notebook that's going
to change our lives exactly. What iful. Well, Kristin, thank
you so much for joining us.
Speaker 1 (31:17):
Thank you. I really appreciate it. It was really fun.
Speaker 2 (31:20):
All right, Well we are back. I was interviewing Kristin
Holmes from CNN about combining work and life. So this
week's question also comes from a listener who is This
is a common question we get about family spacing, but
this person says, I'm hoping to have another kid, but
probably won't be for another year or two due to
family circumstances. Are there any particular challenges or upsides to
(31:44):
having kids further apart like four or more years? What
would you say, Sarah.
Speaker 3 (31:50):
Yeah hhmm, this is a hot take. Maybe I think
it's generally easier if they're closer, if you're like ready
to have another one. And that's a big if, because
I will say, once you get past the like tyler
baby stage, and that's like a big don't discount that
because that part's really hard. It's easier when they share
(32:10):
more common activities, friends, they're at the same school for longer,
et cetera. So for us, like I was ready to
have another one pretty quickly. I mean, we didn't really
plan Cameron's timing, but I wasn't against it at all either,
So it was like, great, this, this is so convenient.
But there's no way I was ready to have a third.
Speaker 2 (32:26):
So even if it might.
Speaker 3 (32:27):
Have been nicer later on, and I'm sure it would
have been if they for example, if we had kept
the pattern of two years and Genevieve was in i
don't know, finishing third grade this year instead of first grade,
certain things might have been a little bit easier. But
it just we weren't there. So you just got to
do what works for you. And I don't know that
(32:48):
you can plan ahead because you don't know how it's
going to feel in your household to have kids of
different ages.
Speaker 2 (32:54):
Yeah, I would say you can talk yourself into anything.
Speaker 1 (32:57):
I think.
Speaker 2 (32:58):
I think for health reasons probably you don't want to
have them too close together, but especially if you start
your family on the earlier side, there's absolutely no reason
you couldn't like string it out for longer. And I mean,
I've found having Henry at five easier than having some
(33:19):
of my other children be five, partly because I have
so many older kids and so there's more close to
adult people around the house to help with him. They
can drive in one case, I have three built in babysitters.
It's just I kind of like having that bigger gap.
But I don't know if I would have starting like
(33:41):
age twenty seven, Laura saying this is the ideal time
for me to have my kids over the next fourteen years. Like, no,
I don't know that you can really even think about it.
So if it works for you to have a bigger
gap between your kids, like great, you're gonna love having
a bigger gap between your kids. And you're gonna love
having a big kid who doesn't view the baby so
much as a rival but as like some cool, like
(34:04):
almost pet like thing that has been added to the family.
Whereas a two year old might be trying to hit
the baby because it's like viewed as totally just a
bad thing that happened.
Speaker 3 (34:15):
No, you're right, that's a good point. I didn't really
think about those sibling relationships. But again, that can go
both ways because sometimes siblings are so happy to be
so close in age and oh if I didn't really
get to know my sister because they were a decade
old or whatever. But like same, they also could fight
when they're close and like love being the little mascot.
So maybe just let it happen how it happens, and
(34:35):
not overthink it too much.
Speaker 2 (34:37):
Yeah, don't overthink it if the timing that is good
for your family, because you know right now is a
really bad time, Like in a couple of years will
be a better than great.
Speaker 1 (34:45):
That's awesome.
Speaker 2 (34:47):
You'll have a wonderful family dynamic whatever it happens to be.
All right, Well, this has been best of both worlds.
I have been talking with Kristen Holmes from CNN. We
will be back next week with more on making work
in life fit together.
Speaker 3 (35:02):
Thanks for listening. You can find me Sarah at the
shoebox dot com or at the Underscore shoebox on Instagram
and you.
Speaker 2 (35:10):
Can find me Laura at Laura vandercam dot com. This
has been the best of both worlds podcasts. Please join
us next time for more on making work and life
work together
Hi.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
I'm Laura Vanderkamp. I'm a mother of five, an author, journalist,
and speaker.
Speaker 3 (00:15):
And I'm Sarah Hart Hunger, a mother of three, practicing physician, writer,
and courtse creator. We are two working parents who love
our careers and our families.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Welcome to best of both worlds. Here we talk about
how real women manage work, family, and time for fun.
From figuring out childcare to mapping out long term career goals.
We want you to get the most out of life.
Welcome to best of both worlds. This is Laura. This
episode is airing in July of twenty twenty five. I
(00:46):
am going to be interviewing Kristin Holmes, who is a
senior White House correspondent for CNN. She just had her
second child in January of twenty twenty five, which means
she has spent most of the presidential campaign last year
into his on their road covering that pregnant. And that's
obviously an interesting angle of combining work in life. People
(01:08):
often talk a lot about combining parenthood and work, but
combining pregnancy work is its own special version of this,
particularly if you have a fairly intense job with irregular
hours or a lot of travel or things like this.
I mean, so Sarah, you're in a traditional job during
your pregnancies, you have strategies that helped you with managing this.
Speaker 3 (01:31):
Yeah, I mean, pregnancies vary, right, and I definitely think
the kind of pregnancy you have is greatly going to
impact how much you have to adjust your work or
how much is going to impact you. I really only
had bad first trimesters. And as I say bad, I
mean I think I vomited like once each pregnancy, So
not that bad, and that's really really lucky. So for me,
(01:55):
I didn't really have to do very much. There was
so much more I had to I mean the postpartum
and the pumping phase that I could do a whole
episode on how incredibly hard it was and the things
I did to get through and how stressful and everything.
But the pregnancy time itself, I didn't really make any
specific concessions that I remember. And in fact, even during
(02:16):
like the nausea months, I was like, ooh, distraction, Like
the more I focus on something else that's not my nausea, like,
the better off I actually am. Even though I might
feel like I'm dragging myself through the day sitting on
the couch wasn't any more pleasant.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
But again, I've.
Speaker 3 (02:29):
Had residents that have had complicated pregnancies. Some people have
a ton of pain with their break So this is
all your mileage may vary.
Speaker 2 (02:37):
I do have fond.
Speaker 3 (02:37):
Memories of leading a tour group of residents when I
was thirty nine weeks and two days pregnant and being
like anything could happen today, And like when I've spoken
to those people years down the road, they remember it
kind of fondly as well.
Speaker 1 (02:50):
So there can be bright spot.
Speaker 2 (02:53):
Yeah, Well, remembering back to my last one, which was
in twenty nineteen. At this point, but I was doing
a lot of speaking. This was right before COVID. We
didn't know that COVID was coming. But in twenty nineteen
happened to be a very speaking heavy year, which was
also when I was pregnant with him, so I was
doing a lot of traveling. I remember one May speech
(03:14):
when I was like newly pregnant or just found out,
I mean, almost fainting on my way up to the stage.
It was a hot day in New York City. I
was woozy, woozy, woozy, and it was not good, but
I did it. I remember eating a lot of cinnabon
in airports like I was. That was something that didn't
(03:34):
turn my stomach, and so I was like, I'm going
to eat a lot of cinnabon. I not nutritious necessarily,
but if you can keep it down and not feel
like it's terrible. I also remember lying in hotel bedrooms
watching TV, like being very, very tired at the end
of the day because you sort of manage your energy
(03:55):
to do what you have to do and then just
kind of collapse at the end of it. I was like, Okay,
I could just watch the NBA playoffs. I can watch
the home renovation shows here lying on my bed and
then getting in the aisle seat on the plane. I
remember once I for some reason, did not have an
(04:16):
aisle seat. I had a window seat, and I was terrible.
I had to get up multiple times in the course
of this flight. The people were very understanding, or one
person next to me. It was one person next men.
He's very understanding. He'd like kept being like, oh yeah, yeah,
he would like hop up every time I got up,
even though there's enough space for me to get past,
you know.
Speaker 3 (04:33):
But it was a yeah, that's what it was. Easier
to be visibly pregnant because you're last. Please feel bad
for me.
Speaker 2 (04:39):
Feel bad for me. Cinnabon's interesting for me.
Speaker 3 (04:41):
It was like salty, like ramen and chips, And yeah,
I do think you should honor whatever it is because
whatever it is probably a reason.
Speaker 2 (04:49):
Maybe or just I mean, cinnabons are good. So there's
that too. You need a little reward for getting yourself
through the day. All right, Well, we'll hear what Chris
Holmes has to say. So Sarah and I are excited
to have Kristen Holmes with us today. So Kristin, welcome
to the show.
Speaker 1 (05:07):
Thank you for having me. I'm so excited to be here.
Speaker 2 (05:09):
Yeah, we are excited to have you as well. So
why don't you tell our listeners a little bit about yourself.
Speaker 4 (05:14):
I am the senior White House correspondent at CNN, and
I am the mother of two. We have a three
and a half year old boy and a five month old,
almost five month old little girl.
Speaker 2 (05:27):
Awesome. So she was born in what January?
Speaker 1 (05:30):
Maybe is that one January fourteenth?
Speaker 2 (05:32):
Exactly? Are you back at work now? Are you back
from eternity?
Speaker 4 (05:35):
Least? I've been back about a month, so still getting
my sea legs, even though a month seems like a
lot of time, but it's definitely not.
Speaker 2 (05:42):
No, of course, of course, And so maybe you could
talk a little bit about your career and how you
got started into this. So what drew you to journalism.
Maybe I saw you did the official Northwestern and Columbia
combo for school, right.
Speaker 1 (05:58):
Yeah, So I really did know what I wanted to
do from it early.
Speaker 4 (06:01):
You know, it doesn't seem like that if you look
just at my resume, but I wasn't sure. And my
mom had been a journalist, and she kind of put
the idea in my head that I was really good
at speech and debate and I could turn that into
a career in some way, and we started looking at
broadcast TV. And I actually spent two years after college
(06:22):
going and doing Teacher.
Speaker 1 (06:23):
For America in Chicago.
Speaker 4 (06:25):
So that was part of the reason I went back
to school, was because I knew if you wanted like
an entry level job, some of these jobs you really
needed connections to get and I felt like the best
way to do that was actually going down to a
journalism school and meeting people who were coming adjunct professors
and various people. And that's actually how I got the
job at CNN. I met at the time the executive
(06:46):
producer of Peers Morgan's show in an elevator. He was
with his son, who was adorable, and I just started
talking to his son.
Speaker 1 (06:54):
I had no idea who he was.
Speaker 4 (06:55):
He was there for a career fair, but I hadn't
spoken to him, and by the end of the elevator ride,
he asked me if I had any interest in interning
for the show, and I said yes, and that turned
into me starting at an entry level position producing in
New York for Piers Morgan. And I just really wanted
to get down to DC and I didn't know what
(07:17):
to do. And I'm not really a risky person, like
I don't take a lot of leaps.
Speaker 1 (07:22):
I married someone.
Speaker 4 (07:22):
Who takes a lot of leaps, so I feel like
it balances out, but I do not. So I didn't
have a formal job in DC at CNN, and I
met with the woman who's actually now running MSNBC, Rebecca Cutler,
and she was at CNN at the time. Just asked
her like what she thought I should do, and she
said to take the risk.
Speaker 1 (07:40):
That it will all line up.
Speaker 4 (07:43):
So I had like a very preliminary freelance booking offer
from CNN, and I just took it, and I decided
I would live with my parents for a little bit.
Speaker 1 (07:53):
They had moved to DC.
Speaker 4 (07:54):
I was raised in Oklahoma, but they had moved to
DC and I stayed with them. And then I really
wanted to transition to doing on air stuff and it's
obviously very difficult.
Speaker 1 (08:04):
It was also a whole different world done.
Speaker 4 (08:06):
I mean, now we do a lot of stuff where
we promote reporters who are print background and then put
them on TV.
Speaker 1 (08:11):
That wasn't really happening at that time.
Speaker 4 (08:14):
So I beg beg begged for a job at the
local affiliate here in DC, weekend cable access station. And
first they're like, we have nothing, and then I was like,
I will work literally any hours. And I was still
freelancing at CNN, and they were like, okay, well we
don't have someone at five am on Saturdays and Sundays.
Speaker 1 (08:36):
So for roughly a year, at five.
Speaker 4 (08:39):
Am, I would go into ABC seven, but it wasn't
even ABC seven, like it wasn't good enough to be
ABC seven.
Speaker 1 (08:45):
It was like their cable access channel.
Speaker 4 (08:48):
And I would take a camera out and I would
go to crime scenes and just kind of try to piece.
Speaker 1 (08:53):
The story together.
Speaker 4 (08:55):
And eventually I had this really awesome producer who there
who was like, you're not technically allowed to go live,
but we really need somebody, so why don't we just
like not tell anybody because no one's watching anyway, so
you can go.
Speaker 1 (09:12):
And that really started everything.
Speaker 4 (09:13):
So I was working seven days a week, half at CNN,
half there, and then CNN told me that they wanted
to eventually pursue possibly a career in broadcast, but if
to do so, they wanted me to go to the
White House and be a producer there, and that I
couldn't do any of the on air stuff anymore because
I had to be full time. So I did it,
and shortly after I went on the campaign in twenty sixteen,
(09:34):
and they CNN really followed through. I mean, I broke stories,
I was a producer, I was of the top correspondent Benjabacosta,
and I did kind of hits some one else wanted
to do on TV the weird hours the week, early mornings,
and that parlayed into the on air stuff where I
(09:55):
went to what we have affiliate program called News Source
that's really meant to like def up your on air skills,
and I got to cover really cool stuff, like I
went to Guam when there was the threat of a
nuclear attack from North Korea. I went to the Royal wedding,
Megan and Harry's wedding. I did a lot of like
very awesome stuff that I'm probably never going to do again.
Speaker 1 (10:14):
I always say, like, this is the only person who
does that, like that many cool things with Anderson Cooper
so like, but it was really fun and now I am.
Speaker 4 (10:24):
Since then, it's transitioned and I have absolutely loved it,
and I've loved covering politics and did the campaign the
last cycle and I covered Donald Trump and then they
made me the senior.
Speaker 1 (10:35):
White House correspondent.
Speaker 2 (10:36):
Amazing. Well, I want to back up a little bit
to this teach for America stint in here, because you
were middle school in Chicago. Is that what you were?
Speaker 1 (10:44):
It was like middle school, elementary school in Chicago.
Speaker 2 (10:46):
Okay, I'm very curious if you learned any skills from
that that have been helpful in your life.
Speaker 4 (10:51):
Now, I will tell you that there is no job
that I've ever done that was harder than that.
Speaker 1 (10:56):
And I remember afterwards, I mean I cried a lot.
I cried a lot, and.
Speaker 4 (11:00):
I didn't have any I mean, when I was twenty two,
I didn't have any experience other than babysitting.
Speaker 1 (11:06):
I had some kids who were amazing and wonderful.
Speaker 4 (11:09):
But also very difficult, like behaviorally, and I didn't have
a lot of experience with that. But the one thing
that I learned from that job that has really taken
me through the rest of my life is patience. And
I think that I did not have an extraordinary amount
of patience. My parents didn't really have an extraordinary amount
(11:30):
of patience when I was growing up and everything was.
Speaker 1 (11:33):
Supposed to be go, go go.
Speaker 4 (11:34):
And I still remember like the moment that I kind
of like changed in my head and I was with
these kids that we were in thirteen fifth graders and
they didn't know how to tell time. And I was
staying after school every day with these kids to tutor
them because they're super behind in a bunch of different things.
But all of a sudden, I realized they didn't understand clocks.
(11:56):
And we sat there one day for like three hours
and it just wasn't getting through. And I just remember
being like, Okay, let's try it again, and it was
just like this moment of like there is nothing I
can do in the second to change what is going
on other than to keep trying. And I can't get
mad because it's no one's fault and I just need
(12:19):
to come up with a new strategy to try and
make this work for these kids. And I did, and
I just kept at it, and it was like this
kind of bulb switched off in my head that was
like there's no other option but to be patient. And
that has just carried through because it's just we live
these lives that are so high stress, high intensity, and
(12:42):
you sometimes just have to take a moment and be like, Okay,
we got to be patient.
Speaker 1 (12:46):
We got to see what the future holds.
Speaker 4 (12:49):
Maybe this is not where we really want to be
right now, but like, you got to be patient. And
that was the skill set, the greatest skill set I
took away from that experience absolutely.
Speaker 2 (12:57):
All Right, Well, we're going to take a quick ad
break and then I'll be back with more from Kristen Holmes. Well,
I am back talking with Kristin Holmes, who is the
senior White House correspondent for CNN. So, Kristin, we have
(13:21):
a lot of people who listen to the show who
are professional women who are raising young kids. I'm getting
very much the sense that being a on air correspondent
is not exactly a nine to five sort of Monday
through Friday kind of job, which we're going to get
to doing that job while during your second pregnancy here,
(13:43):
but you also have a three year old, so you
were doing all this. You've been doing this job with
a young child. You said your husband is also I
believe at CNN, so he probably doesn't have normal hours either.
Speaker 1 (13:58):
He's actually at.
Speaker 4 (13:59):
The fire department now he is the chief Yes, he's
a chief communications officer for the firearms, so he was.
Speaker 2 (14:04):
He was primarily, but he has moved to a different
job now. But still none of this is.
Speaker 1 (14:07):
Like straight regular hours.
Speaker 2 (14:10):
So how have you guys managed that? Like the logistics
of child Karen, who's with your son, Like, well, you're
out doing random hours and he is as well.
Speaker 4 (14:22):
So this has been like an ongoing evolution and we're
still not there. I mean, I feel like I had
this realization now with two that this is going to
continue to be the evolution of our lives, Like we're
never going to have anything that is like a routine
for quite some time, maybe when they're a little older,
but definitely not for the next couple of years. So
(14:42):
what we have decided to do, and this was my
husband's idea after I've been on the campaign trail for
basically a year traveling and he was spent a lot
of time alone as solo parenting, which I am grateful
to him every second. Four so they know it wasn't
easy that you would get a no pair and it
has changed our lives.
Speaker 1 (15:04):
She's not even our primary childcare, but she is a
We kind of.
Speaker 4 (15:09):
View her as a mommy's helper, but also she is
literally like a sibling to our kids. It has made
me feel like I can pay attention to both of
my kids and do my job. I feel like it
has been a game changer for us in terms of
being able to still pay attention to our three and
(15:30):
a half year old, who is very demanding, who is
just learning and growing every second and I don't want
to miss a thing, but also not feel like I've
abandoned my newborn, which I know is a common feeling
that we have as women because there's so much focus
on your older kid and it's like, am.
Speaker 1 (15:47):
I doing enough?
Speaker 4 (15:48):
And so for us, this has been the solution, and
right now it's working again. I don't know what works forever,
but at this point it took a long time to
get here.
Speaker 1 (16:00):
But having her kind.
Speaker 4 (16:02):
Of be able to hold a baby while the baby's
still in the room when I can be home, or
also be able to run off and take a call
when I need to and not feel like my kids
are just sitting there, and I'm anxious that for us
has been the way that we've really figured out how
to manage this and it's been a positive solution.
Speaker 1 (16:24):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (16:24):
Absolutely. I mean we often talk on the show about
layering childcare, so I assume me you have something like
daycare or primary nanny, like for normal we do business hours.
Speaker 4 (16:34):
Yeah, her normal business as we have a primary nanny
and my son goes to a school, and with my
new hours at work, I am trying to take him
to camp this summer, but then school so that I
can work until eight pm. And because generally now I'm
not leaving the White House until eight pm, which means
I generally am going to miss the baby, which was
a hard realization, but like I've mentally gotten there, but
(16:57):
it took some time before she goes to bed, but
I will get that's I'm with my son. So we
have the primary nanny who will be with the baby
during the day as well as my son goes to
school camp, and then for the off hours in the
evening and the weekends we have and no pair.
Speaker 2 (17:13):
Excellent. Well that's what you have to do. And it's
like when people often start on their parenting journey, they
think like, okay, well one should work, but if you
have either parent working different hours, then you need more
than one layer.
Speaker 4 (17:27):
It was impossible for us, and really, honestly, I had
a conversation with CNN and with my husband and when
they offered me the job. They offer me the job
right after the campaign, and I said, in order to
be able to do this job the way that you're
going to want me to do it the way that
I want to do it, and be good at it
and enjoy it but also enjoy my children, like these
(17:47):
are the things that I'm going to have to do.
So when I put in my asks for you, I
need you to understand that it's coming from a place
of not living any kind of lavish lifestyle or anything
like that.
Speaker 1 (18:00):
I am literally looking.
Speaker 4 (18:02):
At this and thinking, how can my husband and I
make this work and raise two kids and let me
be good at my job. And that was the plan
and how we came up with it, and I felt
like I went to work with it and I said
this is what I'm I need and they were receptive.
Speaker 2 (18:18):
Yeah, well, it's it's kind of job where Yeah, I mean,
you say you're working till eight pm, but it's not
like you know that the news will be done by
eight pm, like coming out of the White House, and
what we could see, it could happen any hour of
the day with this.
Speaker 1 (18:30):
Particular calls to be made.
Speaker 4 (18:31):
I might not be physically there, but I mean over
the weekend, we were at an event and the National
Guard was brought into California and that required me to
make a series of phone calls that I was with
my kids and I had to step away.
Speaker 1 (18:48):
And that this whole.
Speaker 4 (18:50):
Environment that we've created is the only way that I
can do that without putting all of the burden on
my husband all the time, who also has a full
time job, which is hard.
Speaker 2 (18:59):
Yeaholute No, that's what we talk about on this show
all the time.
Speaker 1 (19:03):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (19:04):
And so you have a young baby now who's born
in January, and so a lot of people saw you
covering the presidential campaign over the last year. When did
you find out you were expecting a kid? Number two?
Speaker 4 (19:18):
There March March of twenty twenty four, and I actually
did not tell anyone for quite some time.
Speaker 1 (19:29):
It was easier to.
Speaker 4 (19:31):
Do because I was on the road so much that
like no one was looking at me, but I had
this was really my dream job before I got the
White House. Covering the campaign was my dream job. And
you know, as a woman who got pregnant and was
going to deliver in January right after the election, I
(19:51):
was concerned that.
Speaker 1 (19:53):
It might impact something, even just to put it out
there that I was pregnant.
Speaker 4 (19:57):
And I really was worried about that because again, like
I worked for this job, like it really was like
one of the greatest things I've ever done in my
whole life, but it was also probably the hardest thing
I've ever done.
Speaker 2 (20:10):
Well, I'm curious, what was your concern that people be like, well,
we don't want to see someone pregnant on the era
that you're gonna be do you know? It was danger
from anything.
Speaker 1 (20:18):
It was a timeline issue.
Speaker 4 (20:19):
It was a time show, so it was like, so okay,
So for example, I gave birth a week My initial
due date was inauguration day, twenty twenty five.
Speaker 1 (20:29):
So like it's Trump won, which we didn't know in
March what was gonna happen.
Speaker 4 (20:32):
But if he won, even if he didn't, what if
I wanted to cover the inauguration.
Speaker 1 (20:41):
What if they thought of me that way, or what.
Speaker 4 (20:43):
If for some reason they thought, well, she's not gonna
be able to travel after a certain time, so we
should just scheduling early. By the way, they were wonderful
when I told them they were wonderful. It was fine,
and there was none of all that was put to
the side. But in my mind, my concern was I
just to make it through November, right, And if they
(21:03):
think I can't make it through there because I'm too
pregnant to go on the road or I'm too pregnant
to keep doing this job and I might needed to
be home, that might impact even the way they subconsciously
think about me, And so I just that was my concern,
was that I just wanted to wait as long as
possible to where it was like, Okay, there's not really
any at that point.
Speaker 1 (21:20):
There was no way to like change the dynamics.
Speaker 2 (21:23):
Yeah, you already knew that Kristin was on the air covering,
so we're going to see Kristin through it to the end.
Speaker 4 (21:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (21:29):
Well, I don't know about you, but pregnancy for me
has never been a high energy time, So I'm curious
how you managed your schedule of flying around seeing the
various candidate events. I mean, it's presidential campaigns are grueling,
not only for the people who are doing them, but
obviously the people who are covering them too.
Speaker 1 (21:45):
I truly don't know.
Speaker 4 (21:47):
I look back on that time and I feel like
I was two different people. I feel like I was
the Kristin that was covering the campaign and also the
Kristin was pregnant with her second child. I compartmentalize, which
I don't know if it's healthy or not, but I did,
and it was the.
Speaker 1 (22:03):
Only way that I could get through it.
Speaker 4 (22:07):
When I stopped traveling the month before after the election,
but the month before she was born, it was like
my body just shut down. It was like I couldn't
I stopped being able to get up in the morning,
and I started like it was like I had taken
nine months of exhaustion and just powered through it. And
it just hit me like the second that I couldn't
(22:28):
get on a plane anymore. And I remember saying that
to my bosses and just saying like, I'm just so tired,
and they were like, you've been going one hundred miles
per hour for the last nine months.
Speaker 1 (22:38):
Of course you're tired.
Speaker 4 (22:40):
But I think that there was a part of me
that was like I promised my husband that at the
end of the campaign, I knew it was going to
be a really hardier that we would assess what my
next job was, no matter what they offered me, and
that I was not going to openly take any job
without a full blown discussion about childcare and our.
Speaker 1 (22:57):
Lives and all of that. So for me, it was
like the end of this is the election.
Speaker 4 (23:03):
It is or the inauguration and this baby being born,
because after that is a question mark still until we
see what the layout looks like and until we have
this conversation.
Speaker 1 (23:12):
So it was like I was able to just like look.
Speaker 4 (23:14):
At this timeframe and be like this, I have to
get through this. But like I said, like I toltally,
like the month before she was born, I was like
a wreck.
Speaker 1 (23:22):
I was sure done. I was done. I was done.
I was going about at like seven o'clock.
Speaker 2 (23:26):
I was like, it was like, all right, well, We're
gonna take one more quick ad break and I'll be
back with more from Kristen Holmes. Well, I am back
talking with Kristin Holmes, senior White House correspondent for CNN,
(23:49):
who has been talking about having a three year old
and also being pregnant on the campaign trail this last year.
But I've said, one of the things you have mentioned
is that you can't wait to tell your daughter about
some of the experiences you had to gather. I guess
because she was, of course with you the whole time
on the campag troot. I wonder if you have a
highlight or two that you can share with us.
Speaker 4 (24:09):
So I had this amazing producer on the campaign trail
who started with me right before I got pregnant, and
I always say that like she's part of the reason
that my daughter is still alive, like because she took
such good care of me, and like obviously, as you know,
it takes a village. And so we took photos of
me at like every stage of pregnancy in different places,
(24:30):
and the really fun one for us was in California.
Speaker 1 (24:36):
Trump went to go do a press conference, and it.
Speaker 4 (24:38):
Was the first time I was showing and we still
it was still like our secret the two of us.
I'm obviously my husband, but on the road from work,
and it just as this moment where we took all
these pictures of me like pregnant. I felt pregnant for
the first time, and we were kind of embracing it
because so much of it had been like go go, go,
go go, and we a little photo shoot and it
(25:01):
just was such a fun moment. And then I think
it was really cool on election night when we were
down there and just that we'd made it on like
she and I, my daughter and I had made it
on this journey, and that we were there standing there
waiting for the results and it was still like what's
going to happen tonight, but it was like that was
(25:22):
the finish line, and I just like we took pictures
there of me standing there and it was just, I
don't know, it was a really cool experience to be like, girl,
we made it together, Like here we are, it's the end,
Like we crossed the finish line.
Speaker 1 (25:36):
And those are probably the two biggest experiences.
Speaker 2 (25:38):
Yeah, I was just saying, it was funny, you're really
you're getting yourself to election day. There was at the
time some discussion like whether it would go on for
a long time, but it turned out it was quick.
It was that night.
Speaker 4 (25:49):
Yeah, yeah, yes, so and that was that was actually
great in the sense that we just we knew what
would happened, and then it was time to move.
Speaker 2 (25:56):
It was time to move on exactly. So how are
you or organizing things down newly back from maternity leave.
I know that's a big adjustment for people as well.
Speaker 1 (26:06):
I'm not You're not, okay, Yeah, I'm not. I bought
a planner. I was actually looking at it before I
came in here.
Speaker 2 (26:11):
How's the planner working for you?
Speaker 4 (26:13):
It's in the box, Okay, I'm taking out today.
Speaker 1 (26:15):
Okay.
Speaker 4 (26:17):
My biggest issue that I've had, I had the same
problem with my son, is that I do not have my.
Speaker 1 (26:23):
Full I still a foggy brain.
Speaker 4 (26:24):
Yeah and so, and I know this happens to everybody,
and I feel like, look, it'll come back in some sense,
maybe not fully, but I'll be able to remember things
in a way that I can't right now. And so
being organized is not really I need to figure out
a system for that.
Speaker 1 (26:40):
And I think the planner will help.
Speaker 4 (26:42):
But also we keep a calendar, a skylight calendar, and
that has been the most amazing thing we've ever done.
It's in our kitchen on the side, and that at
least like keeps us kind of vigilant and also aware
of what's going on, because neither my husband and I
are organized people. Just to be clear, we're that's not
our specialty, and so that has really helped as well.
(27:06):
I think the other thing I think about a lot,
and I'm sure every mom does, is you know how
I'm going to balance when my baby is not just
a baby right like, right now, our lives are about
our son, and the baby is someone we bring with
us to what our son is doing. And I spend
a lot of time thinking about how like best practices
and I still don't know the answer obviously, but of
(27:28):
how I can make sure that I figure out how
to live for two people and two different events and
all the stuff.
Speaker 1 (27:36):
Right now. It's it. It felt like.
Speaker 4 (27:38):
We finally got a handle on it with the three
year old, and now it's like that's just gone, like
we're starting we're starting over now. So it's yeah, So
the like long story long is that I don't have
a way to organize other than the Skylight calendar.
Speaker 1 (27:52):
And now I'll let you know how the planner goes.
Speaker 2 (27:54):
I hope it's a good planners behind this. Yeah, that's
the one perfect planner.
Speaker 1 (28:00):
It's going to change everything exactly.
Speaker 2 (28:01):
But we also do. But you know, it's honestly the
thing like, if you have more than one kid, you're
juggling between the two of them constantly anyway, And there's
this whole narrative about like, oh, well, work is on
the opposite side of kids, and I'm juggling that. But
it's like often the kids themselves. It's requiring you to
split the attention.
Speaker 4 (28:18):
Oh yeah, And I do want to say, is the
one thing about like the work versus kids?
Speaker 1 (28:22):
And I think this is something that.
Speaker 4 (28:24):
I feel like the younger generation is starting to do
and I'm trying to embrace this too, and I've tried
to with my son and now my daughter.
Speaker 1 (28:34):
Is this idea that like.
Speaker 4 (28:35):
It's okay to be a working mom. And I feel
like for my mom's generation, it was like, you don't
want to talk about the fact that you have kids,
because if you talk about the fact that you've kids.
Speaker 1 (28:46):
And people see you differently. And I'm of the mind
that none of us can.
Speaker 4 (28:50):
Actually do this without bringing up the fact that we
have kids. So if it means that I'm working until
nine pm, that might mean that my husband brings my
son to the office and we spend an hour together
and order dinner and sit there, and then he goes
home and goes to bed. And I don't really want
to live in a world in which I'm embarrassed or
(29:11):
nervous about that hour somehow impacting the way that other
people view me and my work product, because my work
product is really great and I'm trying to keep it going.
And so I really feel like we this generation need
to keep doing that for the younger women as well,
to be like, it's okay to have kids, It's okay
(29:33):
that your life is divided. It doesn't mean you're any
like any worse at your job or doesn't mean that,
oh my god.
Speaker 1 (29:38):
It just means you have a full life.
Speaker 4 (29:41):
And I just feel like it was really hard for
at least like in my mom's dinners.
Speaker 1 (29:44):
I mean, she even has said stuff to me. Well,
She's like, well, don't bring up the kids factor, and
it's like, but that is the factor. That's my whole thing.
Speaker 4 (29:52):
Like I'm a mom and I want to be a mom,
and I want it to be a mom and so
if I'm gonna do that, then like everybody should know
that that's what I'm doing as well as doing my job.
Speaker 2 (30:01):
Absolutely well, that's what we're we're all about here. Gant
aimen to that, well, Christ we always end with a
love of the week. You're saying your planner made me
think of my custom plumb planner. I love it. I
love it. I have like a planner stack. My co
host is massively into planners, by the way. But it
(30:22):
was a tie between that and Sweethearts, because I like
so love Sweethearts and I got a box that's amazing
and I'm just so happy to be snacking on that.
But what are you really enjoying this week? What's your
love of the week.
Speaker 4 (30:34):
We started solas this week, Oh excitly, And I got
to tell you that I did something that I'd never
done with my son, which does I need food for
like from scratch for the baby, which made me feel.
Speaker 1 (30:45):
Like I was super mom. By the way, You're like.
Speaker 2 (30:46):
Pioneer woman here.
Speaker 1 (30:47):
Exactly know.
Speaker 4 (30:48):
I was like in net shurning the butter No, and
so I think my love this week is just like
reliving that moment of because like we're so far beyond
it now with our three year old of what it's
like for her try things for the first time.
Speaker 1 (31:02):
And then obviously I'm hoping that my love of the
week will be my planner once I take it out
of the box and bring it to work today. That's
my second thing that will change my life completely.
Speaker 2 (31:09):
It'll change your life absolutely, the little notebook that's going
to change our lives exactly. What iful. Well, Kristin, thank
you so much for joining us.
Speaker 1 (31:17):
Thank you. I really appreciate it. It was really fun.
Speaker 2 (31:20):
All right, Well we are back. I was interviewing Kristin
Holmes from CNN about combining work and life. So this
week's question also comes from a listener who is This
is a common question we get about family spacing, but
this person says, I'm hoping to have another kid, but
probably won't be for another year or two due to
family circumstances. Are there any particular challenges or upsides to
(31:44):
having kids further apart like four or more years? What
would you say, Sarah.
Speaker 3 (31:50):
Yeah hhmm, this is a hot take. Maybe I think
it's generally easier if they're closer, if you're like ready
to have another one. And that's a big if, because
I will say, once you get past the like tyler
baby stage, and that's like a big don't discount that
because that part's really hard. It's easier when they share
(32:10):
more common activities, friends, they're at the same school for longer,
et cetera. So for us, like I was ready to
have another one pretty quickly. I mean, we didn't really
plan Cameron's timing, but I wasn't against it at all either,
So it was like, great, this, this is so convenient.
But there's no way I was ready to have a third.
Speaker 2 (32:26):
So even if it might.
Speaker 3 (32:27):
Have been nicer later on, and I'm sure it would
have been if they for example, if we had kept
the pattern of two years and Genevieve was in i
don't know, finishing third grade this year instead of first grade,
certain things might have been a little bit easier. But
it just we weren't there. So you just got to
do what works for you. And I don't know that
(32:48):
you can plan ahead because you don't know how it's
going to feel in your household to have kids of
different ages.
Speaker 2 (32:54):
Yeah, I would say you can talk yourself into anything.
Speaker 1 (32:57):
I think.
Speaker 2 (32:58):
I think for health reasons probably you don't want to
have them too close together, but especially if you start
your family on the earlier side, there's absolutely no reason
you couldn't like string it out for longer. And I mean,
I've found having Henry at five easier than having some
(33:19):
of my other children be five, partly because I have
so many older kids and so there's more close to
adult people around the house to help with him. They
can drive in one case, I have three built in babysitters.
It's just I kind of like having that bigger gap.
But I don't know if I would have starting like
(33:41):
age twenty seven, Laura saying this is the ideal time
for me to have my kids over the next fourteen years. Like, no,
I don't know that you can really even think about it.
So if it works for you to have a bigger
gap between your kids, like great, you're gonna love having
a bigger gap between your kids. And you're gonna love
having a big kid who doesn't view the baby so
much as a rival but as like some cool, like
(34:04):
almost pet like thing that has been added to the family.
Whereas a two year old might be trying to hit
the baby because it's like viewed as totally just a
bad thing that happened.
Speaker 3 (34:15):
No, you're right, that's a good point. I didn't really
think about those sibling relationships. But again, that can go
both ways because sometimes siblings are so happy to be
so close in age and oh if I didn't really
get to know my sister because they were a decade
old or whatever. But like same, they also could fight
when they're close and like love being the little mascot.
So maybe just let it happen how it happens, and
(34:35):
not overthink it too much.
Speaker 2 (34:37):
Yeah, don't overthink it if the timing that is good
for your family, because you know right now is a
really bad time, Like in a couple of years will
be a better than great.
Speaker 1 (34:45):
That's awesome.
Speaker 2 (34:47):
You'll have a wonderful family dynamic whatever it happens to be.
All right, Well, this has been best of both worlds.
I have been talking with Kristen Holmes from CNN. We
will be back next week with more on making work
in life fit together.
Speaker 3 (35:02):
Thanks for listening. You can find me Sarah at the
shoebox dot com or at the Underscore shoebox on Instagram
and you.
Speaker 2 (35:10):
Can find me Laura at Laura vandercam dot com. This
has been the best of both worlds podcasts. Please join
us next time for more on making work and life
work together
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