September 9, 2025 • 34 mins
In today's episode, Sarah and Laura share things they've learned in their 40s -- a decade people don't necessarily look forward to, but one that they are both definitely enjoying!
They also give a round-up of quotes they've found themselves spouting on numerous occasions, from "People are a good use of time" (by Laura!) and several more.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:09):
Hi.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
I'm Laura Vanderkamp. I'm a mother of five, an author, journalist,
and speaker.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
And I'm Sarah hart Hunger, a mother of three, practicing physician, writer,
and course creator. We are two working parents who love
our careers and our families.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Welcome to best of both worlds. Here we talk about
how real women manage work, family, and time for fun,
from figuring out childcare to mapping out long.
Speaker 3 (00:33):
Term career goals.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
We want you to get the most out of life.
Speaker 3 (00:41):
Welcome the best of both worlds. This is Laura.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
This episode is airing the second week of September twenty
twenty five. This episode is going to be about things
that surprised us in our forties, and originally we thought
we would also do some motivational quotes. At the end
we are like, well, well, this will be a compound
episode of things that's us in our forties and our
favorite motivational quotes. And then we had a realization, Sarah,
(01:04):
neither of us are all that into motivational quotes, are
we No?
Speaker 1 (01:08):
Not really Like there are certain phrases I find myself
repeating all the time from certain wise people, but motivational
quotes also kind of make me think of those posters
with like the cats on them from the nineties, and
they're kind of funny sometimes more than they are actually inspirational.
Speaker 2 (01:24):
Yeah, one of my favorite Instagram follows is disappointing Affirmations,
and it's just hilarious. It's like those pictures, right, not
the cats necessarily, but like beautiful mountain landscapes. And then
it's something terrible, right, like I wish I'd looked at
this right before because now I'm thinking about it. But
(01:45):
and he had one the other day that was like
a heap of discarded toys and it was something like
we all wind up on the discarded heap of once
loved things. So terrible, little dark, it's dark. So that's
a nice little motivational quote for you. If your humor
ten's more toward mine, you might want to go follow
(02:06):
disappointing affirmations. But yeah, so I also have a feeling
that a lot of motivational quotes are misattributed. I worked
as a fact checker for a year, and I can
tell you when I would go try to check a quote,
it was pretty much invariably wrong or attributed to the
wrong person. That's a pretty common thing that happens, and
(02:31):
I guess I also just don't understand why something is
more profound if somebody famous said it.
Speaker 1 (02:36):
Well, they must know everything. They're famous.
Speaker 3 (02:39):
Do they know everything because they're famous? I don't know.
It doesn't seem to me like they do, but I
guess some people get into it. If you do, that's exciting.
We're happy for you. We love that for you. But
moving on to things that.
Speaker 2 (02:51):
Surprised us in our forties, Sarah, how old are you
are we sharing ages?
Speaker 1 (02:59):
Sure? I am forty five or quaranta y Sinkle. I
probably said that wrong. I was helping Cameron with the
Spanish homework yesterday. Yeah, I am forty six. So we're
both right in our mid forties as we are listen this.
So we've been in the forties for a few years now.
I guess we get to be experts on our forties
at this point.
Speaker 2 (03:19):
But things that are surprised us, I will go with one,
so that it turns out that your fertility does not
necessarily fall off a cliff at age thirty five. Do
you remember reading When was it that this all was
being made a big deal about it? I feel like
it was when we were very young like but not children,
but like like twenty or something that there was suddenly
a huge amount in the news about thirty five, is
(03:42):
it or something.
Speaker 1 (03:44):
Definitely I had that idea. I mean for me, it
was like the medical being medical as well. At one point,
I think I did say I wanted to have all
my kids before I turned thirty five, and I wanted
three kids, and I had a plan to have them
at like twenty nine and whatever, and then I couldn't
get pregnant at twenty nine, so you know that plan.
Speaker 2 (04:00):
Was already ruined.
Speaker 1 (04:02):
So yeah, I mean, you're right. I definitely think that
was the trope, was that like scary things can happen
to women who even manage to get pregnant in their
late thirties.
Speaker 2 (04:14):
Yes, And so I was always like, oh, I hate
everything about this because first it's always like, oh, you
can't prioritize your career in your twenties because you need
to prioritize finding a man and getting pregnant, as if
the two cannot like happen at the same time. It's
like a a lot of people meet their spouse through
work related type stuff or through education related things.
Speaker 3 (04:35):
There's a lot of people.
Speaker 2 (04:37):
At MBA programs marrying each other, for instance. So if
you were like, Ooh, I shouldn't go get an MBA
because I should prioritize finding a man and starting a family, like, well,
that was maybe not the best idea then, because that's
one of the sort of sorting things that people do,
is marrying people in similar professions and stuff. But you know, again,
like these things can happen at the same time. It's
(04:59):
not like you you only can do one. So I
felt like a lot of this, like your fertility is
going to fall off. The cliff was trying to get
people not to have career ambitions, which I.
Speaker 3 (05:07):
Think is stupid.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
Also, I could just tell you from personal experience, it
doesn't seem to happen. You know, it may be a
gradual decline at some point.
Speaker 1 (05:16):
Well there is a decline in decline, but it's just
not an off the cliff.
Speaker 2 (05:20):
Yeah, you do not wake up at age thirty five
and one day no longer able to have children, especially
if successfully had a child at let's say thirty four,
And then my guess is you're going to probably have
pretty much the exact same experience in trying to get
pregnant at thirty six, thirty seven, thirty eight, probably thirty nine, forty.
(05:44):
You know, at some point in your early forties maybe
that starts to change. But I had two of my
children after age thirty five. You had Genevieve after thirty five, or.
Speaker 1 (05:53):
Yes I did. Yeah. It's much easier to get pregnant
with Genevieve than it was to get pregnant with Nnebelle.
So there you go.
Speaker 3 (05:59):
So what that.
Speaker 2 (06:00):
All is, you know, is if you thought, like, hello,
I'm forty, I don't need to use birth control anymore,
you should rethink that.
Speaker 1 (06:09):
Definitely rethink that.
Speaker 2 (06:10):
Don't believe the people who told you your fertility would
fall off a cliff if that is not in your plants.
Speaker 3 (06:15):
Obviously, I am thrilled to have two children. That is
not me.
Speaker 2 (06:18):
But if somebody is listening to that and had that thought,
you should, yeah, maybe not have that idea.
Speaker 1 (06:24):
Yes, all right, number two, sah number two, number two.
Speaker 2 (06:30):
Okay, Well, I was gonna say metabolism does change. And
this is not to say that you can't be thin
in your forties or whatever. There's plenty of people who are,
but at least for me, my experience is that I
used to be somebody who didn't have to think about it,
and at some point in my forties, if I want
(06:51):
to be not gaining a lot of.
Speaker 3 (06:54):
Weight, I do need to think about it.
Speaker 1 (06:56):
And maybe that's the difference here because I'm going to
be like very real, say, like I've always thought about it.
I thought about it when I was thirteen, I thought
about it when I was twenty five. I'm still thinking
about it at forty five. Not in like a toxic,
scary way, but like I don't think I was ever
of the naivete that like I'll just see whatever and
like look however I want, because that's not what we're
surrounded by, Like we're not surrounded by foods that really
enable that relationship with food. This is a big soapbox
(07:19):
for an episode, but I think that probably does underpin
where I'm like, I didn't have this realization because maybe
I always had it.
Speaker 2 (07:26):
Yeah, Okay, Well, I mean I look back because I
know I'm not doing anything differently, like I look back
before this episode on like my step trackers, which is
you know, on my phone, and I'm walking way more
now than I.
Speaker 3 (07:41):
Was, say, eight years ago.
Speaker 2 (07:44):
I pay more attention to what I eat than I
did certainly in my twenties, probably well into my thirties,
and I still weigh significantly more than I did when
I was in my twenties and up to my late thirties,
and I would say turning forty, it was all after that.
So to me, that was why I have this metabolism realization.
(08:10):
And again not to say people can't be thin, and
therefore there are many people who are. It's just for me,
it would take a lot more effort to be at
that same size that I was then.
Speaker 1 (08:19):
Got it. There are some ladies with some banging bods
in their six years in Bloody's class right now. So
I don't know. I think there's a lot of I mean,
I agree with what you're saying.
Speaker 2 (08:28):
But it probably takes a lot of work to maintain that,
That's what I'm saying, Yes, yes, Whereas if you are
twenty five, it may take less work to maintain that.
Speaker 3 (08:38):
It may be that.
Speaker 2 (08:39):
You can eat a lot of pizza and beer and
still have a very spelt figure, and that may be
less the case.
Speaker 3 (08:47):
As you get older.
Speaker 2 (08:49):
All right, Well, I'm a barrel full of laughs today
and I.
Speaker 3 (08:55):
You got to come up with one.
Speaker 1 (08:56):
Sarah All right, Well, this one's more in you too.
Oh okay, I'm we're just skip ahead to mine. Okay.
I used to think that, like when you were a season,
I would see seasoned parents, Like I'd see parents with
kids that are my kid's age, for example, and be like,
that person clearly knows what they're doing. They have all
the parenting secrets. They must be confident with all the
choices they're making. We're obviously I'm standing here making things up.
(09:18):
Guess what, You're always making things up because every kid
is different, and like, no matter how old your oldest
kid is, like that kid's still going to enter a
new stage that you're trying to figure out. Plus whatever
you use to apply to kid number one, like when
kid number three comes around, you may have a whole
new set of circumstances that you just did not deal
with with kid number one for whatever reason, And so
the amount of feelings seasoned and like you know what
(09:41):
you're doing, at least in my parenting experience, Like, stop
waiting for that because it's probably not coming.
Speaker 2 (09:47):
Yeah, there are certain things that you probably know a
little bit more how to do, Like I would say,
registering Henry for kindergarten.
Speaker 1 (09:56):
Yes, lotistical things.
Speaker 3 (09:58):
I've done that a few times.
Speaker 1 (10:00):
Those are not like the hard the hard things. Yeah,
I was good at registering for things like before I
even had kids.
Speaker 3 (10:09):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I agree.
Speaker 2 (10:12):
I mean you're always figuring out this stuff and it's
going to be interesting. I was thinking about it, like
going into the kindergarten meet and greet on Thursday, that
this is the fifth time starting a child at this school,
and so there's a fair amount of things that you
you figure out with it, and some things that you, yeah,
(10:32):
feel very comfortable with later in your parenting journey. But
then there's other things that who knows, it's something new
that your kid is different than you.
Speaker 1 (10:43):
Didn't have to worry about Jasper, like using AI to
do his third grade homework, but you will have to
worry about Henry.
Speaker 3 (10:48):
That's true. He may already be.
Speaker 2 (10:50):
He was asking for some AI download the other day
and like, really, really, I don't think that's a game
you need to be playing.
Speaker 3 (10:57):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (10:58):
At age sixty or five.
Speaker 3 (11:00):
And a half, kids are crazy these days.
Speaker 2 (11:03):
All right, Well, we're going to take a quick ad
break and then we'd be back with more of things
that surprised us in our forties. So we are back
talking things that surprised us in our forties. We were
(11:24):
having a discussion of older kids versus younger kids. I
gotta say, I think I don't know if you had
this experience, since you are the oldest kid in your family, Sarah,
But sometimes the oldest kid feels a little bit like
because their parents were figuring things out with them, they
may have experienced some of the mistakes that later kids
(11:44):
don't have to suffer from.
Speaker 3 (11:46):
I don't know, did you have that experience.
Speaker 1 (11:48):
I think is more like strictness that parents maybe realize
like didn't have to be so strict, And like, my
favorite example of this is I really really wanted contact
lenses because I had really embarrassing glasses, and for some
reason it was like, no, you can't get them till
you're in eighth grade or thirteen, like there was some
arbitrary number. And I finally got them, and my life
(12:09):
did actually improve, like markedly. Okay, because bullying is real
and like whatever, it's not any fun. So then my
sister wanted glasses, and they saw that it wasn't really
that our contacts that big a deal to like switch
your kid from if a kid's motivated to have contacts,
like they're going to do fine with them, which I did,
and she got them earlier, and I was so mad
(12:30):
about it because like obviously I suffered. So I mean,
that's not a very good attitude.
Speaker 2 (12:34):
But you see what yeah, yeah, now I remember, I
mean I'm the middle child, so it's not I mean,
I'm sure my older brother had like ten times as
strict as I did. But then, like I remember, I
was not allowed to watch Seinfeld because it was deemed inappropriate,
which it probably is, but let's leave that at there.
Speaker 3 (12:52):
So I was watching it. My mom was like, this
is terrible, we have to turn her off. Whatever.
Speaker 2 (12:55):
And then I come home from college and I find
my mom and my little brother watching Seinfeld to gather
like laughing over it.
Speaker 1 (13:04):
Just like what that is really funny?
Speaker 3 (13:08):
Not fair? So but yeah, I mean we've experienced this too.
Speaker 2 (13:13):
I mean there's certain things like knowing to take biology
over the summer before you go into freshman year of
high school, because then that frees up space in your
schedule to take more of the advanced science classes later on,
which could be helpful for college admissions. If you have
multiple ap science classes, and especially if you have taken
(13:35):
them before your senior year, because it tends to be
your junior year. That is a lot of the college
stuff is based on. And now we knew that Sam
has gotten through a lot of that stuff earlier, and
we did not know that for Jasper. But of course
kids are different because Ruth is like not excited about
the idea of taking biology over the summer. So we
will see if that actually happens or if she just
(13:55):
carves her own path completely.
Speaker 3 (13:58):
So kids do what they want to do.
Speaker 1 (14:00):
Yes, all right, Chronic pain, You should talk about this one.
Speaker 2 (14:05):
Well, you know, there's always the joke about your body
falling apart once you hit middle age, and there is
some truth to that. I mean, people wide up with
more aches and pains, little annoyances, and obviously I know
many people have had bigger health scares as Sarah can
talk about, for sure. But you can also become something
(14:26):
of an expert in your own body, which is that
you can experiment with things and try things and research
things and see what works. And sometimes people do that
in conjunction with health professionals, and sometimes they do it
on their own, but you can in fact solve many problems,
which has been something that surprised me. So, for instance,
(14:49):
a couple of years ago, I was really suffering from
chronic sore throat issues, and between strictly limiting dairy products
and taking anti reflex medication, I have managed to mostly
solve that problem, which has been incredible. I try to
pause and note that I'm like not feeling pain, which
(15:11):
is the absence of pain isn't something you necessarily think about,
but it's like, whoh, that's a lot better than it was.
I still get an episode every like two to three
weeks that's bad, and then I'm like, oh yeah, I remember,
and then back pain. Longtime listeners know that I had
a couple of I had some bad back issues about
(15:32):
a year and a half ago, and one way or another,
things have gotten better.
Speaker 3 (15:39):
You know.
Speaker 2 (15:39):
I took the steroids at the time to probably calm
some inflammation that had been building up for a while.
But I think strengthening certain muscles, and it wasn't even
sure which ones it were. I think for me it
was like my hip flex or muscles of all things.
Other people it might be their abdominals, Like my abs
still aren't that great, but I've been working on my
hip flexers and that seems to have.
Speaker 3 (16:01):
Really helped with the back.
Speaker 2 (16:03):
But who knew, right, Like, you try different things, and
it turns out that by stretching and then strengthening your
hip flexers, you can take pressure off your back, and
so for me that seemed to have helped a lot.
Speaker 1 (16:14):
I feel like I'm still getting my PhD, and like
I haven't really experienced a lot of that kind of
like discomfort pain type stuff. And when I used to
experience that, it was usually because of like high mileage running,
and then I went straight from that to like vtex. So, yeah,
my experience has been a little bit different. But I
guess I will say my forties, I and more recently
(16:36):
I like questioned like the things that you need to
do to stay healthy, Like do you need to do
a ton of cardio? I used to think you did.
I definitely. I read so many times that you don't
need to. But until I was actually forced to not
do it and be like, oh, life is fine, I
wasn't entirely convinced. And that does actually kind of go
with what you said, like you have to experiment on yourself,
you have to try things and see what work and
(16:56):
see what feels good, and some of that is going
to be found in PubMed and medical expertise. And then
sometimes and I'm not even saying this in any kind
of anti medical way, but every person is unique, and like,
you're not going to find a paper that's just about
your very very specific issues, and so you're gonna have
to try things within reason. But certainly cutting out dairy
(17:18):
or only doing strength training like those are safe things
to give a whirl and see what happens.
Speaker 3 (17:24):
See what happens.
Speaker 2 (17:25):
Yeah, Yeah, I think we've both found that your forties
can be a very cool time professionally, partly because you've
just been doing whatever you're doing at this point, unless
you've switched careers. But if you've been doing whatever you've
been doing for long enough that you develop certain efficiencies
and so it takes a lot less time to get
the same things done. I know from my time logs
(17:48):
that I am working fewer hours now than I probably
was ten years ago, and that's I mean, sometimes I
want to work more hours. It's been hard with very
active kids, but I can't claim that I'm not getting
as much done as I did during those years before
It's just like, if I need to talk to somebody
(18:09):
about something, I probably know the person to call or
can get to that person through some part of my network.
Speaker 1 (18:16):
Those things build up over time totally. I feel like
your forties, you've become really really efficient at the things
that you do, and that's actually really like satisfying feeling.
And you might not even notice it until you see
people maybe newer to the game, and you watch them
and you're like, oh, yeah, I used to be like that.
And I see that in medicine a lot. I mean,
my younger colleagues are the best, but it definitely takes
(18:38):
them longer to do certain things that for me are
just very second nature now and with the same results.
So it's fun to see yourself progress. Or like when
I interview someone and they say you're a great interviewer
and I'm like, I'm new at this, and I'm like, no,
I'm not new at this. I've done this for like
eight years now. I guess I know how to do this.
So that is fun to have mastery, and I think
(18:59):
a lot of us do into that into our forties. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (19:02):
I had the funny experience of this.
Speaker 2 (19:03):
I was interviewing someone a couple months ago for Before Breakfast.
Before Breakfast has been running for six years now, I
mean Best of Both Worlds has been running for eight years.
I've done a lot of interviews, obviously, for all sorts
of journalism things over the years. And I just started
adding an interview portioned to Before Breakfast in September of
last year. And so that is what somebody had told
(19:26):
this person I was interviewing, is like, it's like a
new show, a new interview show or whatever. And so
if I interview this woman and she gets off and
she's like, are you really new at this?
Speaker 1 (19:41):
You're like, I'm a savant.
Speaker 3 (19:43):
I just I've never done this before. How did it go?
Speaker 2 (19:48):
So I quickly told her that she was not, in fact,
the first person I had ever interviewed.
Speaker 1 (19:53):
That's awesome. Yeah, yeah, see that feels good. And I'm
sure lots of you listening to this are there as well.
So give yourself your own on the back for getting
to a more efficient place in your career time.
Speaker 3 (20:03):
Absolutely absolutely.
Speaker 2 (20:05):
I would also say I've learned that older kids are
very cool. I love the mid to lateeen stage. I
know I've been lucky in this regard. My kids are awesome,
but it is still cool to watch who they become
and how they think about their lives. And I feel
like there's so much negative stuff about teenagers out there,
(20:28):
and I don't know, I think it's not inevitable. I
think that it can be a really cool, fun time
of parenting and of family life.
Speaker 3 (20:38):
So I'll throw that out there too.
Speaker 1 (20:40):
Oh I'm not quite there yet, but I am also
enjoying the stage I'm in, and it's been interesting lately.
I feel like I've run into a bunch of people
in their forties who have like an old kid and
a young kid like you, but even maybe like a
three year old and a seventeen year old or something
like that. And I don't know. Every stage is interesting.
Every stage goes fast, and it happens once.
Speaker 2 (21:00):
So yeah, I will say I am not thrilled about
being woken up in the middle of the night in
my mid forties.
Speaker 1 (21:07):
Oh, I would not like that. Well, I don't like
that for work, and I wouldn't like.
Speaker 2 (21:10):
That for yes, one of my my baby may still
be having a little bit of trouble on the sleeping
front sometimes, and that is a bit frustrating because not
that it was fun when you're twenty something, but it
is sometimes to get.
Speaker 1 (21:25):
Back to seal with it.
Speaker 3 (21:26):
Yeah, yeah, there's that.
Speaker 2 (21:28):
But anyway, all right, well we're going to take a
quick ad break and then we'll be back with the
next part of this episode.
Speaker 3 (21:46):
So we are back the first part of this episode.
Speaker 2 (21:48):
We were talking are things that surprised us in our forties.
We were going to do a section on motivational quotes
before we realize that Sarah doesn't really do motivational quotes
and I disappointing affirmations, So we were not really the
sort of people who are penning motivational quotes to our
bulletin boards. So we thought we'd do maybe some of
(22:09):
the things that we say over and over again that
we are kind of our favorite greatest hits that we do. So, Sarah,
what are you telling people over and over again?
Speaker 1 (22:21):
Oh?
Speaker 2 (22:22):
Man?
Speaker 1 (22:22):
I mean sometimes I tell people like this is from
the planning side of things, to like control your inputs
because people are so overwhelmed at what's coming at them,
but they forget that, like you can put on that
do not disturb, and you can you know, decide when
you're going to look at your email, and you can
have people contact you in a different way if they're
bothering you in an asynchronous form or synchronous form of
communication when they should be using an asynchronous form, et cetera.
(22:43):
So that's something I find myself like repeating a lot.
I do repeat David Allens, your brain is for having ideas,
not holding them. So that's also kind of like write
it down, like, don't expect yourself to have so many
things going on in your head for planning. I'm always
telling people to have one source of truth or one
master so fun fact, it was one source of truth
in my book, but it got changed to one master calendar,
(23:05):
and now I'm like, master, is this like a gentry anyway? Whatever?
At just one place where you look that you can
trust to find all of your time specific engagements. I
say that a lot, and then this was kind of
going to go with the other point. But you know,
not everybody has to like you. That's like everyone's an
acquired taste kind of a thing. That's not a saying necessarily,
(23:26):
but I feel like it's something that I have to
repeat to myself. But I have ingrained over time and
definitely within the last decade. Yeah, what about your quotes?
You have so many great quotes.
Speaker 2 (23:37):
If somebody wants to make you a lot quote cards
with these on uh with images of mountain streams behind them. Well,
one of my favorite is people are a good use
of time. So whenever you find yourself trying to be
more efficient with like having a conversation with someone, you
can kind of pause and note that whatever this is
(23:58):
that is cementing the relationship can probably be deemed a
good use of time, even if you probably would have
made that point in fewer words.
Speaker 3 (24:08):
Going to bed early is how grown up sleep in.
Speaker 2 (24:11):
That's another favorite one because a lot of times adults
have to wake up at set times for work or
family responsibilities. So if you would like to have that
sort of luxurious sense of getting all the sleep you want,
you kind of have to do it on the other
side of the day. So go to bed on time
I don't have time means it's not a priority.
Speaker 1 (24:33):
I love that one. It's so true and people love
to use that, and like sometimes it's tempting, you know,
when someone says that, you're like, you want to say it,
but you can also just say it in your mind.
Speaker 3 (24:44):
Like it's true.
Speaker 2 (24:46):
I tend not to say that to somebody if they're
like telling me I don't have time to do this,
I'm like, well, I hear that it's just not a priority,
because that's usually.
Speaker 3 (24:57):
Not what people want and people are a good use
of time.
Speaker 2 (24:59):
But with ourselves we can often say that, like, would
you do this if somebody were paying you a million
dollars to do it? Well, okay, you probably would, Now
how would you find the time in that situation?
Speaker 1 (25:12):
Right?
Speaker 2 (25:12):
And is there anything from that that you could make
happen now, even in the absence of a million dollars,
But that might be a strategy that you would employ
and could make it work with that open space invites
opportunity in a way a cluttered calendar can't.
Speaker 3 (25:32):
I don't know about you, Sarah.
Speaker 2 (25:33):
I always feel like I am so not willing to
take on new stuff around the start of the school
year or around the holidays. Like if an opportunity came
to be that, people are like, well, we could have
a conversation about this, maybe it'll lead to something, because
opportunities tend not to come gift wrapped, Like I mean,
maybe if you're really famous and have a ton of influence,
(25:54):
they do. But for most of us they don't like
you kind of have to track them down and talk
to a couple people and see where they go. And
I'm just not willing to do that at a time
when every minute feels spoken for, which tends to be
the case when you're figuring out new schedules at the
start of the school year and like over the holidays
where there's events every night, and so it's just something
to keep in mind. If you can keep open space
(26:16):
in your calendar, then you don't feel so resentful when
somebody's like, hey, we should have a conversation about that. No,
no conversation, Yeah, no, you might and then see where
it goes.
Speaker 1 (26:25):
Yeah. I think for me the default is stuff gets filled.
But there are some days where I just really I
will make a note to like protect them, and it's
almost like I have to cultivate the open space. But
then when it's there, I'm always so so thankful that
it's me.
Speaker 2 (26:38):
Yeah, things that can happen whenever happen when never. That
was one from Tranquility by Tuesday, just the idea that
people are like, Okay, yeah, I need more me time,
and then they're like, Okay, I'm going to have more
bubble baths. But the problem is your bathtub is not
going anywhere, and so you could do it whenever. And
(27:02):
so if you say, like even if you put it
on your calend, like ooh, I'm going to take a
bubble bath at seven o'clock on Wednesday, then somebody wants
you to drive them to the mall at seven o'clock
on Wednesday, or there's some work thing that could happen Wednesday,
and you know, so you do it, and then you
don't have your bubble bath. It just winds up not happening.
Whereas if things have a specific time, and in many
(27:24):
cases involve a commitment to other people, that they tend
to happen. So, for instance, my choir practice happens at
seven o'clock on Thursday nights. That's not really a negotiable time.
So I tend to protect seven o'clock on Thursday nights
in a way that I wouldn't if I was just like, oh,
I'm just going to go sing sometime. So I encourage
people to choose something that involves all that.
Speaker 1 (27:46):
I like that.
Speaker 2 (27:48):
Sarah, did I forget to Oh wait, do I forget
to include a question in this show?
Speaker 3 (27:52):
Notes?
Speaker 1 (27:54):
Possibly? Can I give my other quote, I can't. I
really like my other quote, which is perspective things. I
think that just applies to so much, like, you know,
you can be really sad about something, It's okay to
be sad, but also like perspective is everything, right, Like
there's going to be a time after this, there's been
other people that are suffering, like you're not the only one,
and like there's so many things to be grateful for.
(28:16):
I feel like it's tied to that. So now we're
getting all cheesy. We could see a cat poster with
that on it, but it's an Amy man lyric and
I just love it. If I was going to get
a tattoo, which I'm not, it might say perspective is everything.
Speaker 2 (28:27):
That's not one thing you're going to do in your
forties get a tattoo.
Speaker 1 (28:31):
I guess it's not on any bucket list or anything
I plan on doing in my forties.
Speaker 2 (28:35):
No, Well, our love of the week is sort of
related then with our perspective as everything, because Sarah, you
had a couple of things go wrong over the last week.
Speaker 1 (28:43):
Correct, Oh my gosh, things way worse than forgetting a
Q and A in a podcast transcript. So we're recording
this a couple of weeks after the fact. But our
nanny actually took a trip that wasn't going wrong, that
was planned. It was not the best timing, like I
knew I was going to be on call and it
was the first full week of school, so really not ideal,
but it was something really special to her. As I said, yes,
(29:03):
so we're going into that. I'm going into that like
with baited breath, like I'm so anxious. And then immediately immediately,
the dryer breaks and my husband's car breaks, like breaks forever,
like it's never Maybe it'll live again, but it's not
gonna be our car probably again, because the breaks failed,
and like you know, you know, breaks fail, We're done.
It's a twenty eleven prius too. It was time, but
like that was not it was not the time. And honestly,
(29:24):
the dryer was more disruptive than the car because he
promptly runted a car. But we like had to, I
don't know, like scramble to have clean clothes every day
until we figured out that the local wandromat had a
washing fold service. We dropped off tons of laundry and
then the next day picked it up. All nice and
beautifully folded, and it was just a lifesaver. So that
is my love of the week, and also just a
(29:46):
reminder that sometimes a bunch of stuff is gonna happen
all at once. But you know, perspective is everything.
Speaker 3 (29:53):
We got through it. Yeah, washing fold services are great.
Speaker 2 (29:55):
I mean, I know, so when I lived in New
York City, I used one all the time because my
first apartment didn't have a laundry facilities, but there was
a commercial laundry out across the street, and I quickly
figured out it's like, okay, you could go spend hours
going in and out on a Saturday, like tending your
clothes and moving them to the dryer, or you could
just pay a very small amount, I mean, because it's
(30:17):
so competitive because they were one on every block to
get them to do it, and they would, and then
you just pick it up again the next day and
it's all beautiful, or sometimes they even deliver it if
you wanted that.
Speaker 3 (30:27):
But it was across the road, so I didn't really
need that.
Speaker 2 (30:30):
But yeah, like you don't do that in a suburban
house where you have a huge laundry facility. Thing, but
might be worth it as a special treat sometime when
you just can't get your head around doing the laundry totally.
It was a lifesaver, lifesaver, well, my love of the week.
I thought I was going to be totally done with
it when we were recording this, but it turned out
(30:51):
there was one more chapter that I had not counted.
I'm reading Anna Karina, so Tolstoy's novel, and this year
I have been reading it at a pace of one
chapter a day, and I knew there were approximately two
hundred whatever we are two hundred and forty chapters.
Speaker 3 (31:08):
We've gotten through of.
Speaker 2 (31:09):
Eight months of the year, and so I read one
chapter a day and we are coming to the end.
Tomorrow will be the last chapter. Well, the thing is
Tolstoy is irritating this way, both in War and Peace
and Anakarnina, and that one of the main things that
happens like to end the book is then like sixty
(31:29):
pages from the end, you have sixty pages of like
nothing wrapping it up. And so I'm in that right
now and just okay, we're going to learn all about
the Serbian cause that the various Russian freelance fighters were
going to do.
Speaker 1 (31:47):
And I was like, have you read any commentary about
why he did this, like did he have a whole plan?
But then he had to meet a word count.
Speaker 3 (31:54):
I wonder because it's serialized. It was like there are
five serial like there's five.
Speaker 2 (31:57):
Books, right, and so maybe he like not spoiler alert here,
but Anna has already been under the train here. So
that happened like fifty pages ago. And I guess his
readers still wanted stuff or he well, he was more
interested in Levin Constantin, Levin the other character, sort of
big character, and it's his alter ego, it's Tolstoy's alter ego.
(32:18):
And so I guess he found him more fascinating and
his spiritual journey and all that, And so we get
sixty more pages on Levin's spiritual journey.
Speaker 1 (32:27):
You know, someone listening has written their thesis on those
sixty pages.
Speaker 3 (32:31):
I'm sure they have, like why did he just keep going?
Speaker 1 (32:34):
So let us know.
Speaker 2 (32:37):
Our Russian literature experts, and why he did it with
Warren Peace too. The epilogue is like all the it's
like one hundred pages on his great men theory of history,
on how we need to recognize that it's not the
great men of history that are moving things, all right.
Speaker 1 (32:49):
You're not selling these books to me.
Speaker 2 (32:52):
Well, okay, I like them, and I like to I've
read them and I think they've either fascinating. But I yeah,
if you're reading probably two hundred and fifty page contemporary novels,
you'd have to work to get through this, because it's
there's some slow, very slow.
Speaker 1 (33:13):
We'll see. Not on my Sunday maybe list just yet.
Speaker 2 (33:16):
No, not on your list of one hundred dreams from
our previous episode. Oh well, well, anyway, this was actually
I meant to get at this of the forties versus
what you do, because I read Anakarinana when I was
twenty two years old, and I remember some of it,
but I didn't remember all of this stuff, and so
it was kind of nice to read it my forties
(33:38):
and see some of the absurdity of some of it,
but also just at this slow of a pace, because
I think I went through it a lot faster the
first time and missed a lot, and so I've experienced
all of it.
Speaker 1 (33:52):
So cool, right, all right, Well, that was just as
good as a Q and I we weave back next
week with a great question.
Speaker 2 (33:59):
Next week we'll have it all well, all right, well,
this has been best of both worlds. We've been talking
things that we learned in our forties, some of our
favorite quotes from our own things we're telling people all
the time, and we will be back next week.
Speaker 3 (34:11):
With more on making work and life fit together.
Speaker 1 (34:15):
Thanks for listening. You can find me Sarah at the
shoebox dot com or at the Underscore Shoebox on Instagram.
Speaker 2 (34:22):
And you can find me Laura at Laura vandercam dot com.
This has been the best of both worlds podcasts. Please
join us next time for more on making work and
life work together.
Hi.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
I'm Laura Vanderkamp. I'm a mother of five, an author, journalist,
and speaker.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
And I'm Sarah hart Hunger, a mother of three, practicing physician, writer,
and course creator. We are two working parents who love
our careers and our families.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Welcome to best of both worlds. Here we talk about
how real women manage work, family, and time for fun,
from figuring out childcare to mapping out long.
Speaker 3 (00:33):
Term career goals.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
We want you to get the most out of life.
Speaker 3 (00:41):
Welcome the best of both worlds. This is Laura.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
This episode is airing the second week of September twenty
twenty five. This episode is going to be about things
that surprised us in our forties, and originally we thought
we would also do some motivational quotes. At the end
we are like, well, well, this will be a compound
episode of things that's us in our forties and our
favorite motivational quotes. And then we had a realization, Sarah,
(01:04):
neither of us are all that into motivational quotes, are
we No?
Speaker 1 (01:08):
Not really Like there are certain phrases I find myself
repeating all the time from certain wise people, but motivational
quotes also kind of make me think of those posters
with like the cats on them from the nineties, and
they're kind of funny sometimes more than they are actually inspirational.
Speaker 2 (01:24):
Yeah, one of my favorite Instagram follows is disappointing Affirmations,
and it's just hilarious. It's like those pictures, right, not
the cats necessarily, but like beautiful mountain landscapes. And then
it's something terrible, right, like I wish I'd looked at
this right before because now I'm thinking about it. But
(01:45):
and he had one the other day that was like
a heap of discarded toys and it was something like
we all wind up on the discarded heap of once
loved things. So terrible, little dark, it's dark. So that's
a nice little motivational quote for you. If your humor
ten's more toward mine, you might want to go follow
(02:06):
disappointing affirmations. But yeah, so I also have a feeling
that a lot of motivational quotes are misattributed. I worked
as a fact checker for a year, and I can
tell you when I would go try to check a quote,
it was pretty much invariably wrong or attributed to the
wrong person. That's a pretty common thing that happens, and
(02:31):
I guess I also just don't understand why something is
more profound if somebody famous said it.
Speaker 1 (02:36):
Well, they must know everything. They're famous.
Speaker 3 (02:39):
Do they know everything because they're famous? I don't know.
It doesn't seem to me like they do, but I
guess some people get into it. If you do, that's exciting.
We're happy for you. We love that for you. But
moving on to things that.
Speaker 2 (02:51):
Surprised us in our forties, Sarah, how old are you
are we sharing ages?
Speaker 1 (02:59):
Sure? I am forty five or quaranta y Sinkle. I
probably said that wrong. I was helping Cameron with the
Spanish homework yesterday. Yeah, I am forty six. So we're
both right in our mid forties as we are listen this.
So we've been in the forties for a few years now.
I guess we get to be experts on our forties
at this point.
Speaker 2 (03:19):
But things that are surprised us, I will go with one,
so that it turns out that your fertility does not
necessarily fall off a cliff at age thirty five. Do
you remember reading When was it that this all was
being made a big deal about it? I feel like
it was when we were very young like but not children,
but like like twenty or something that there was suddenly
a huge amount in the news about thirty five, is
(03:42):
it or something.
Speaker 1 (03:44):
Definitely I had that idea. I mean for me, it
was like the medical being medical as well. At one point,
I think I did say I wanted to have all
my kids before I turned thirty five, and I wanted
three kids, and I had a plan to have them
at like twenty nine and whatever, and then I couldn't
get pregnant at twenty nine, so you know that plan.
Speaker 2 (04:00):
Was already ruined.
Speaker 1 (04:02):
So yeah, I mean, you're right. I definitely think that
was the trope, was that like scary things can happen
to women who even manage to get pregnant in their
late thirties.
Speaker 2 (04:14):
Yes, And so I was always like, oh, I hate
everything about this because first it's always like, oh, you
can't prioritize your career in your twenties because you need
to prioritize finding a man and getting pregnant, as if
the two cannot like happen at the same time. It's
like a a lot of people meet their spouse through
work related type stuff or through education related things.
Speaker 3 (04:35):
There's a lot of people.
Speaker 2 (04:37):
At MBA programs marrying each other, for instance. So if
you were like, Ooh, I shouldn't go get an MBA
because I should prioritize finding a man and starting a family, like, well,
that was maybe not the best idea then, because that's
one of the sort of sorting things that people do,
is marrying people in similar professions and stuff. But you know, again,
like these things can happen at the same time. It's
(04:59):
not like you you only can do one. So I
felt like a lot of this, like your fertility is
going to fall off. The cliff was trying to get
people not to have career ambitions, which I.
Speaker 3 (05:07):
Think is stupid.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
Also, I could just tell you from personal experience, it
doesn't seem to happen. You know, it may be a
gradual decline at some point.
Speaker 1 (05:16):
Well there is a decline in decline, but it's just
not an off the cliff.
Speaker 2 (05:20):
Yeah, you do not wake up at age thirty five
and one day no longer able to have children, especially
if successfully had a child at let's say thirty four,
And then my guess is you're going to probably have
pretty much the exact same experience in trying to get
pregnant at thirty six, thirty seven, thirty eight, probably thirty nine, forty.
(05:44):
You know, at some point in your early forties maybe
that starts to change. But I had two of my
children after age thirty five. You had Genevieve after thirty five, or.
Speaker 1 (05:53):
Yes I did. Yeah. It's much easier to get pregnant
with Genevieve than it was to get pregnant with Nnebelle.
So there you go.
Speaker 3 (05:59):
So what that.
Speaker 2 (06:00):
All is, you know, is if you thought, like, hello,
I'm forty, I don't need to use birth control anymore,
you should rethink that.
Speaker 1 (06:09):
Definitely rethink that.
Speaker 2 (06:10):
Don't believe the people who told you your fertility would
fall off a cliff if that is not in your plants.
Speaker 3 (06:15):
Obviously, I am thrilled to have two children. That is
not me.
Speaker 2 (06:18):
But if somebody is listening to that and had that thought,
you should, yeah, maybe not have that idea.
Speaker 1 (06:24):
Yes, all right, number two, sah number two, number two.
Speaker 2 (06:30):
Okay, Well, I was gonna say metabolism does change. And
this is not to say that you can't be thin
in your forties or whatever. There's plenty of people who are,
but at least for me, my experience is that I
used to be somebody who didn't have to think about it,
and at some point in my forties, if I want
(06:51):
to be not gaining a lot of.
Speaker 3 (06:54):
Weight, I do need to think about it.
Speaker 1 (06:56):
And maybe that's the difference here because I'm going to
be like very real, say, like I've always thought about it.
I thought about it when I was thirteen, I thought
about it when I was twenty five. I'm still thinking
about it at forty five. Not in like a toxic,
scary way, but like I don't think I was ever
of the naivete that like I'll just see whatever and
like look however I want, because that's not what we're
surrounded by, Like we're not surrounded by foods that really
enable that relationship with food. This is a big soapbox
(07:19):
for an episode, but I think that probably does underpin
where I'm like, I didn't have this realization because maybe
I always had it.
Speaker 2 (07:26):
Yeah, Okay, Well, I mean I look back because I
know I'm not doing anything differently, like I look back
before this episode on like my step trackers, which is
you know, on my phone, and I'm walking way more
now than I.
Speaker 3 (07:41):
Was, say, eight years ago.
Speaker 2 (07:44):
I pay more attention to what I eat than I
did certainly in my twenties, probably well into my thirties,
and I still weigh significantly more than I did when
I was in my twenties and up to my late thirties,
and I would say turning forty, it was all after that.
So to me, that was why I have this metabolism realization.
(08:10):
And again not to say people can't be thin, and
therefore there are many people who are. It's just for me,
it would take a lot more effort to be at
that same size that I was then.
Speaker 1 (08:19):
Got it. There are some ladies with some banging bods
in their six years in Bloody's class right now. So
I don't know. I think there's a lot of I mean,
I agree with what you're saying.
Speaker 2 (08:28):
But it probably takes a lot of work to maintain that,
That's what I'm saying, Yes, yes, Whereas if you are
twenty five, it may take less work to maintain that.
Speaker 3 (08:38):
It may be that.
Speaker 2 (08:39):
You can eat a lot of pizza and beer and
still have a very spelt figure, and that may be
less the case.
Speaker 3 (08:47):
As you get older.
Speaker 2 (08:49):
All right, Well, I'm a barrel full of laughs today
and I.
Speaker 3 (08:55):
You got to come up with one.
Speaker 1 (08:56):
Sarah All right, Well, this one's more in you too.
Oh okay, I'm we're just skip ahead to mine. Okay.
I used to think that, like when you were a season,
I would see seasoned parents, Like I'd see parents with
kids that are my kid's age, for example, and be like,
that person clearly knows what they're doing. They have all
the parenting secrets. They must be confident with all the
choices they're making. We're obviously I'm standing here making things up.
(09:18):
Guess what, You're always making things up because every kid
is different, and like, no matter how old your oldest
kid is, like that kid's still going to enter a
new stage that you're trying to figure out. Plus whatever
you use to apply to kid number one, like when
kid number three comes around, you may have a whole
new set of circumstances that you just did not deal
with with kid number one for whatever reason, And so
the amount of feelings seasoned and like you know what
(09:41):
you're doing, at least in my parenting experience, Like, stop
waiting for that because it's probably not coming.
Speaker 2 (09:47):
Yeah, there are certain things that you probably know a
little bit more how to do, Like I would say,
registering Henry for kindergarten.
Speaker 1 (09:56):
Yes, lotistical things.
Speaker 3 (09:58):
I've done that a few times.
Speaker 1 (10:00):
Those are not like the hard the hard things. Yeah,
I was good at registering for things like before I
even had kids.
Speaker 3 (10:09):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I agree.
Speaker 2 (10:12):
I mean you're always figuring out this stuff and it's
going to be interesting. I was thinking about it, like
going into the kindergarten meet and greet on Thursday, that
this is the fifth time starting a child at this school,
and so there's a fair amount of things that you
you figure out with it, and some things that you, yeah,
(10:32):
feel very comfortable with later in your parenting journey. But
then there's other things that who knows, it's something new
that your kid is different than you.
Speaker 1 (10:43):
Didn't have to worry about Jasper, like using AI to
do his third grade homework, but you will have to
worry about Henry.
Speaker 3 (10:48):
That's true. He may already be.
Speaker 2 (10:50):
He was asking for some AI download the other day
and like, really, really, I don't think that's a game
you need to be playing.
Speaker 3 (10:57):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (10:58):
At age sixty or five.
Speaker 3 (11:00):
And a half, kids are crazy these days.
Speaker 2 (11:03):
All right, Well, we're going to take a quick ad
break and then we'd be back with more of things
that surprised us in our forties. So we are back
talking things that surprised us in our forties. We were
(11:24):
having a discussion of older kids versus younger kids. I
gotta say, I think I don't know if you had
this experience, since you are the oldest kid in your family, Sarah,
But sometimes the oldest kid feels a little bit like
because their parents were figuring things out with them, they
may have experienced some of the mistakes that later kids
(11:44):
don't have to suffer from.
Speaker 3 (11:46):
I don't know, did you have that experience.
Speaker 1 (11:48):
I think is more like strictness that parents maybe realize
like didn't have to be so strict, And like, my
favorite example of this is I really really wanted contact
lenses because I had really embarrassing glasses, and for some
reason it was like, no, you can't get them till
you're in eighth grade or thirteen, like there was some
arbitrary number. And I finally got them, and my life
(12:09):
did actually improve, like markedly. Okay, because bullying is real
and like whatever, it's not any fun. So then my
sister wanted glasses, and they saw that it wasn't really
that our contacts that big a deal to like switch
your kid from if a kid's motivated to have contacts,
like they're going to do fine with them, which I did,
and she got them earlier, and I was so mad
(12:30):
about it because like obviously I suffered. So I mean,
that's not a very good attitude.
Speaker 2 (12:34):
But you see what yeah, yeah, now I remember, I
mean I'm the middle child, so it's not I mean,
I'm sure my older brother had like ten times as
strict as I did. But then, like I remember, I
was not allowed to watch Seinfeld because it was deemed inappropriate,
which it probably is, but let's leave that at there.
Speaker 3 (12:52):
So I was watching it. My mom was like, this
is terrible, we have to turn her off. Whatever.
Speaker 2 (12:55):
And then I come home from college and I find
my mom and my little brother watching Seinfeld to gather
like laughing over it.
Speaker 1 (13:04):
Just like what that is really funny?
Speaker 3 (13:08):
Not fair? So but yeah, I mean we've experienced this too.
Speaker 2 (13:13):
I mean there's certain things like knowing to take biology
over the summer before you go into freshman year of
high school, because then that frees up space in your
schedule to take more of the advanced science classes later on,
which could be helpful for college admissions. If you have
multiple ap science classes, and especially if you have taken
(13:35):
them before your senior year, because it tends to be
your junior year. That is a lot of the college
stuff is based on. And now we knew that Sam
has gotten through a lot of that stuff earlier, and
we did not know that for Jasper. But of course
kids are different because Ruth is like not excited about
the idea of taking biology over the summer. So we
will see if that actually happens or if she just
(13:55):
carves her own path completely.
Speaker 3 (13:58):
So kids do what they want to do.
Speaker 1 (14:00):
Yes, all right, Chronic pain, You should talk about this one.
Speaker 2 (14:05):
Well, you know, there's always the joke about your body
falling apart once you hit middle age, and there is
some truth to that. I mean, people wide up with
more aches and pains, little annoyances, and obviously I know
many people have had bigger health scares as Sarah can
talk about, for sure. But you can also become something
(14:26):
of an expert in your own body, which is that
you can experiment with things and try things and research
things and see what works. And sometimes people do that
in conjunction with health professionals, and sometimes they do it
on their own, but you can in fact solve many problems,
which has been something that surprised me. So, for instance,
(14:49):
a couple of years ago, I was really suffering from
chronic sore throat issues, and between strictly limiting dairy products
and taking anti reflex medication, I have managed to mostly
solve that problem, which has been incredible. I try to
pause and note that I'm like not feeling pain, which
(15:11):
is the absence of pain isn't something you necessarily think about,
but it's like, whoh, that's a lot better than it was.
I still get an episode every like two to three
weeks that's bad, and then I'm like, oh yeah, I remember,
and then back pain. Longtime listeners know that I had
a couple of I had some bad back issues about
(15:32):
a year and a half ago, and one way or another,
things have gotten better.
Speaker 3 (15:39):
You know.
Speaker 2 (15:39):
I took the steroids at the time to probably calm
some inflammation that had been building up for a while.
But I think strengthening certain muscles, and it wasn't even
sure which ones it were. I think for me it
was like my hip flex or muscles of all things.
Other people it might be their abdominals, Like my abs
still aren't that great, but I've been working on my
hip flexers and that seems to have.
Speaker 3 (16:01):
Really helped with the back.
Speaker 2 (16:03):
But who knew, right, Like, you try different things, and
it turns out that by stretching and then strengthening your
hip flexers, you can take pressure off your back, and
so for me that seemed to have helped a lot.
Speaker 1 (16:14):
I feel like I'm still getting my PhD, and like
I haven't really experienced a lot of that kind of
like discomfort pain type stuff. And when I used to
experience that, it was usually because of like high mileage running,
and then I went straight from that to like vtex. So, yeah,
my experience has been a little bit different. But I
guess I will say my forties, I and more recently
(16:36):
I like questioned like the things that you need to
do to stay healthy, Like do you need to do
a ton of cardio? I used to think you did.
I definitely. I read so many times that you don't
need to. But until I was actually forced to not
do it and be like, oh, life is fine, I
wasn't entirely convinced. And that does actually kind of go
with what you said, like you have to experiment on yourself,
you have to try things and see what work and
(16:56):
see what feels good, and some of that is going
to be found in PubMed and medical expertise. And then
sometimes and I'm not even saying this in any kind
of anti medical way, but every person is unique, and like,
you're not going to find a paper that's just about
your very very specific issues, and so you're gonna have
to try things within reason. But certainly cutting out dairy
(17:18):
or only doing strength training like those are safe things
to give a whirl and see what happens.
Speaker 3 (17:24):
See what happens.
Speaker 2 (17:25):
Yeah, Yeah, I think we've both found that your forties
can be a very cool time professionally, partly because you've
just been doing whatever you're doing at this point, unless
you've switched careers. But if you've been doing whatever you've
been doing for long enough that you develop certain efficiencies
and so it takes a lot less time to get
the same things done. I know from my time logs
(17:48):
that I am working fewer hours now than I probably
was ten years ago, and that's I mean, sometimes I
want to work more hours. It's been hard with very
active kids, but I can't claim that I'm not getting
as much done as I did during those years before
It's just like, if I need to talk to somebody
(18:09):
about something, I probably know the person to call or
can get to that person through some part of my network.
Speaker 1 (18:16):
Those things build up over time totally. I feel like
your forties, you've become really really efficient at the things
that you do, and that's actually really like satisfying feeling.
And you might not even notice it until you see
people maybe newer to the game, and you watch them
and you're like, oh, yeah, I used to be like that.
And I see that in medicine a lot. I mean,
my younger colleagues are the best, but it definitely takes
(18:38):
them longer to do certain things that for me are
just very second nature now and with the same results.
So it's fun to see yourself progress. Or like when
I interview someone and they say you're a great interviewer
and I'm like, I'm new at this, and I'm like, no,
I'm not new at this. I've done this for like
eight years now. I guess I know how to do this.
So that is fun to have mastery, and I think
(18:59):
a lot of us do into that into our forties. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (19:02):
I had the funny experience of this.
Speaker 2 (19:03):
I was interviewing someone a couple months ago for Before Breakfast.
Before Breakfast has been running for six years now, I
mean Best of Both Worlds has been running for eight years.
I've done a lot of interviews, obviously, for all sorts
of journalism things over the years. And I just started
adding an interview portioned to Before Breakfast in September of
last year. And so that is what somebody had told
(19:26):
this person I was interviewing, is like, it's like a
new show, a new interview show or whatever. And so
if I interview this woman and she gets off and
she's like, are you really new at this?
Speaker 1 (19:41):
You're like, I'm a savant.
Speaker 3 (19:43):
I just I've never done this before. How did it go?
Speaker 2 (19:48):
So I quickly told her that she was not, in fact,
the first person I had ever interviewed.
Speaker 1 (19:53):
That's awesome. Yeah, yeah, see that feels good. And I'm
sure lots of you listening to this are there as well.
So give yourself your own on the back for getting
to a more efficient place in your career time.
Speaker 3 (20:03):
Absolutely absolutely.
Speaker 2 (20:05):
I would also say I've learned that older kids are
very cool. I love the mid to lateeen stage. I
know I've been lucky in this regard. My kids are awesome,
but it is still cool to watch who they become
and how they think about their lives. And I feel
like there's so much negative stuff about teenagers out there,
(20:28):
and I don't know, I think it's not inevitable. I
think that it can be a really cool, fun time
of parenting and of family life.
Speaker 3 (20:38):
So I'll throw that out there too.
Speaker 1 (20:40):
Oh I'm not quite there yet, but I am also
enjoying the stage I'm in, and it's been interesting lately.
I feel like I've run into a bunch of people
in their forties who have like an old kid and
a young kid like you, but even maybe like a
three year old and a seventeen year old or something
like that. And I don't know. Every stage is interesting.
Every stage goes fast, and it happens once.
Speaker 2 (21:00):
So yeah, I will say I am not thrilled about
being woken up in the middle of the night in
my mid forties.
Speaker 1 (21:07):
Oh, I would not like that. Well, I don't like
that for work, and I wouldn't like.
Speaker 2 (21:10):
That for yes, one of my my baby may still
be having a little bit of trouble on the sleeping
front sometimes, and that is a bit frustrating because not
that it was fun when you're twenty something, but it
is sometimes to get.
Speaker 1 (21:25):
Back to seal with it.
Speaker 3 (21:26):
Yeah, yeah, there's that.
Speaker 2 (21:28):
But anyway, all right, well we're going to take a
quick ad break and then we'll be back with the
next part of this episode.
Speaker 3 (21:46):
So we are back the first part of this episode.
Speaker 2 (21:48):
We were talking are things that surprised us in our forties.
We were going to do a section on motivational quotes
before we realize that Sarah doesn't really do motivational quotes
and I disappointing affirmations, So we were not really the
sort of people who are penning motivational quotes to our
bulletin boards. So we thought we'd do maybe some of
(22:09):
the things that we say over and over again that
we are kind of our favorite greatest hits that we do. So, Sarah,
what are you telling people over and over again?
Speaker 1 (22:21):
Oh?
Speaker 2 (22:22):
Man?
Speaker 1 (22:22):
I mean sometimes I tell people like this is from
the planning side of things, to like control your inputs
because people are so overwhelmed at what's coming at them,
but they forget that, like you can put on that
do not disturb, and you can you know, decide when
you're going to look at your email, and you can
have people contact you in a different way if they're
bothering you in an asynchronous form or synchronous form of
communication when they should be using an asynchronous form, et cetera.
(22:43):
So that's something I find myself like repeating a lot.
I do repeat David Allens, your brain is for having ideas,
not holding them. So that's also kind of like write
it down, like, don't expect yourself to have so many
things going on in your head for planning. I'm always
telling people to have one source of truth or one
master so fun fact, it was one source of truth
in my book, but it got changed to one master calendar,
(23:05):
and now I'm like, master, is this like a gentry anyway? Whatever?
At just one place where you look that you can
trust to find all of your time specific engagements. I
say that a lot, and then this was kind of
going to go with the other point. But you know,
not everybody has to like you. That's like everyone's an
acquired taste kind of a thing. That's not a saying necessarily,
(23:26):
but I feel like it's something that I have to
repeat to myself. But I have ingrained over time and
definitely within the last decade. Yeah, what about your quotes?
You have so many great quotes.
Speaker 2 (23:37):
If somebody wants to make you a lot quote cards
with these on uh with images of mountain streams behind them. Well,
one of my favorite is people are a good use
of time. So whenever you find yourself trying to be
more efficient with like having a conversation with someone, you
can kind of pause and note that whatever this is
(23:58):
that is cementing the relationship can probably be deemed a
good use of time, even if you probably would have
made that point in fewer words.
Speaker 3 (24:08):
Going to bed early is how grown up sleep in.
Speaker 2 (24:11):
That's another favorite one because a lot of times adults
have to wake up at set times for work or
family responsibilities. So if you would like to have that
sort of luxurious sense of getting all the sleep you want,
you kind of have to do it on the other
side of the day. So go to bed on time
I don't have time means it's not a priority.
Speaker 1 (24:33):
I love that one. It's so true and people love
to use that, and like sometimes it's tempting, you know,
when someone says that, you're like, you want to say it,
but you can also just say it in your mind.
Speaker 3 (24:44):
Like it's true.
Speaker 2 (24:46):
I tend not to say that to somebody if they're
like telling me I don't have time to do this,
I'm like, well, I hear that it's just not a priority,
because that's usually.
Speaker 3 (24:57):
Not what people want and people are a good use
of time.
Speaker 2 (24:59):
But with ourselves we can often say that, like, would
you do this if somebody were paying you a million
dollars to do it? Well, okay, you probably would, Now
how would you find the time in that situation?
Speaker 1 (25:12):
Right?
Speaker 2 (25:12):
And is there anything from that that you could make
happen now, even in the absence of a million dollars,
But that might be a strategy that you would employ
and could make it work with that open space invites
opportunity in a way a cluttered calendar can't.
Speaker 3 (25:32):
I don't know about you, Sarah.
Speaker 2 (25:33):
I always feel like I am so not willing to
take on new stuff around the start of the school
year or around the holidays. Like if an opportunity came
to be that, people are like, well, we could have
a conversation about this, maybe it'll lead to something, because
opportunities tend not to come gift wrapped, Like I mean,
maybe if you're really famous and have a ton of influence,
(25:54):
they do. But for most of us they don't like
you kind of have to track them down and talk
to a couple people and see where they go. And
I'm just not willing to do that at a time
when every minute feels spoken for, which tends to be
the case when you're figuring out new schedules at the
start of the school year and like over the holidays
where there's events every night, and so it's just something
to keep in mind. If you can keep open space
(26:16):
in your calendar, then you don't feel so resentful when
somebody's like, hey, we should have a conversation about that. No,
no conversation, Yeah, no, you might and then see where
it goes.
Speaker 1 (26:25):
Yeah. I think for me the default is stuff gets filled.
But there are some days where I just really I
will make a note to like protect them, and it's
almost like I have to cultivate the open space. But
then when it's there, I'm always so so thankful that
it's me.
Speaker 2 (26:38):
Yeah, things that can happen whenever happen when never. That
was one from Tranquility by Tuesday, just the idea that
people are like, Okay, yeah, I need more me time,
and then they're like, Okay, I'm going to have more
bubble baths. But the problem is your bathtub is not
going anywhere, and so you could do it whenever. And
(27:02):
so if you say, like even if you put it
on your calend, like ooh, I'm going to take a
bubble bath at seven o'clock on Wednesday, then somebody wants
you to drive them to the mall at seven o'clock
on Wednesday, or there's some work thing that could happen Wednesday,
and you know, so you do it, and then you
don't have your bubble bath. It just winds up not happening.
Whereas if things have a specific time, and in many
(27:24):
cases involve a commitment to other people, that they tend
to happen. So, for instance, my choir practice happens at
seven o'clock on Thursday nights. That's not really a negotiable time.
So I tend to protect seven o'clock on Thursday nights
in a way that I wouldn't if I was just like, oh,
I'm just going to go sing sometime. So I encourage
people to choose something that involves all that.
Speaker 1 (27:46):
I like that.
Speaker 2 (27:48):
Sarah, did I forget to Oh wait, do I forget
to include a question in this show?
Speaker 3 (27:52):
Notes?
Speaker 1 (27:54):
Possibly? Can I give my other quote, I can't. I
really like my other quote, which is perspective things. I
think that just applies to so much, like, you know,
you can be really sad about something, It's okay to
be sad, but also like perspective is everything, right, Like
there's going to be a time after this, there's been
other people that are suffering, like you're not the only one,
and like there's so many things to be grateful for.
(28:16):
I feel like it's tied to that. So now we're
getting all cheesy. We could see a cat poster with
that on it, but it's an Amy man lyric and
I just love it. If I was going to get
a tattoo, which I'm not, it might say perspective is everything.
Speaker 2 (28:27):
That's not one thing you're going to do in your
forties get a tattoo.
Speaker 1 (28:31):
I guess it's not on any bucket list or anything
I plan on doing in my forties.
Speaker 2 (28:35):
No, Well, our love of the week is sort of
related then with our perspective as everything, because Sarah, you
had a couple of things go wrong over the last week.
Speaker 1 (28:43):
Correct, Oh my gosh, things way worse than forgetting a
Q and A in a podcast transcript. So we're recording
this a couple of weeks after the fact. But our
nanny actually took a trip that wasn't going wrong, that
was planned. It was not the best timing, like I
knew I was going to be on call and it
was the first full week of school, so really not ideal,
but it was something really special to her. As I said, yes,
(29:03):
so we're going into that. I'm going into that like
with baited breath, like I'm so anxious. And then immediately immediately,
the dryer breaks and my husband's car breaks, like breaks forever,
like it's never Maybe it'll live again, but it's not
gonna be our car probably again, because the breaks failed,
and like you know, you know, breaks fail, We're done.
It's a twenty eleven prius too. It was time, but
like that was not it was not the time. And honestly,
(29:24):
the dryer was more disruptive than the car because he
promptly runted a car. But we like had to, I
don't know, like scramble to have clean clothes every day
until we figured out that the local wandromat had a
washing fold service. We dropped off tons of laundry and
then the next day picked it up. All nice and
beautifully folded, and it was just a lifesaver. So that
is my love of the week, and also just a
(29:46):
reminder that sometimes a bunch of stuff is gonna happen
all at once. But you know, perspective is everything.
Speaker 3 (29:53):
We got through it. Yeah, washing fold services are great.
Speaker 2 (29:55):
I mean, I know, so when I lived in New
York City, I used one all the time because my
first apartment didn't have a laundry facilities, but there was
a commercial laundry out across the street, and I quickly
figured out it's like, okay, you could go spend hours
going in and out on a Saturday, like tending your
clothes and moving them to the dryer, or you could
just pay a very small amount, I mean, because it's
(30:17):
so competitive because they were one on every block to
get them to do it, and they would, and then
you just pick it up again the next day and
it's all beautiful, or sometimes they even deliver it if
you wanted that.
Speaker 3 (30:27):
But it was across the road, so I didn't really
need that.
Speaker 2 (30:30):
But yeah, like you don't do that in a suburban
house where you have a huge laundry facility. Thing, but
might be worth it as a special treat sometime when
you just can't get your head around doing the laundry totally.
It was a lifesaver, lifesaver, well, my love of the week.
I thought I was going to be totally done with
it when we were recording this, but it turned out
(30:51):
there was one more chapter that I had not counted.
I'm reading Anna Karina, so Tolstoy's novel, and this year
I have been reading it at a pace of one
chapter a day, and I knew there were approximately two
hundred whatever we are two hundred and forty chapters.
Speaker 3 (31:08):
We've gotten through of.
Speaker 2 (31:09):
Eight months of the year, and so I read one
chapter a day and we are coming to the end.
Tomorrow will be the last chapter. Well, the thing is
Tolstoy is irritating this way, both in War and Peace
and Anakarnina, and that one of the main things that
happens like to end the book is then like sixty
(31:29):
pages from the end, you have sixty pages of like
nothing wrapping it up. And so I'm in that right
now and just okay, we're going to learn all about
the Serbian cause that the various Russian freelance fighters were
going to do.
Speaker 1 (31:47):
And I was like, have you read any commentary about
why he did this, like did he have a whole plan?
But then he had to meet a word count.
Speaker 3 (31:54):
I wonder because it's serialized. It was like there are
five serial like there's five.
Speaker 2 (31:57):
Books, right, and so maybe he like not spoiler alert here,
but Anna has already been under the train here. So
that happened like fifty pages ago. And I guess his
readers still wanted stuff or he well, he was more
interested in Levin Constantin, Levin the other character, sort of
big character, and it's his alter ego, it's Tolstoy's alter ego.
(32:18):
And so I guess he found him more fascinating and
his spiritual journey and all that, And so we get
sixty more pages on Levin's spiritual journey.
Speaker 1 (32:27):
You know, someone listening has written their thesis on those
sixty pages.
Speaker 3 (32:31):
I'm sure they have, like why did he just keep going?
Speaker 1 (32:34):
So let us know.
Speaker 2 (32:37):
Our Russian literature experts, and why he did it with
Warren Peace too. The epilogue is like all the it's
like one hundred pages on his great men theory of history,
on how we need to recognize that it's not the
great men of history that are moving things, all right.
Speaker 1 (32:49):
You're not selling these books to me.
Speaker 2 (32:52):
Well, okay, I like them, and I like to I've
read them and I think they've either fascinating. But I yeah,
if you're reading probably two hundred and fifty page contemporary novels,
you'd have to work to get through this, because it's
there's some slow, very slow.
Speaker 1 (33:13):
We'll see. Not on my Sunday maybe list just yet.
Speaker 2 (33:16):
No, not on your list of one hundred dreams from
our previous episode. Oh well, well, anyway, this was actually
I meant to get at this of the forties versus
what you do, because I read Anakarinana when I was
twenty two years old, and I remember some of it,
but I didn't remember all of this stuff, and so
it was kind of nice to read it my forties
(33:38):
and see some of the absurdity of some of it,
but also just at this slow of a pace, because
I think I went through it a lot faster the
first time and missed a lot, and so I've experienced
all of it.
Speaker 1 (33:52):
So cool, right, all right, Well, that was just as
good as a Q and I we weave back next
week with a great question.
Speaker 2 (33:59):
Next week we'll have it all well, all right, well,
this has been best of both worlds. We've been talking
things that we learned in our forties, some of our
favorite quotes from our own things we're telling people all
the time, and we will be back next week.
Speaker 3 (34:11):
With more on making work and life fit together.
Speaker 1 (34:15):
Thanks for listening. You can find me Sarah at the
shoebox dot com or at the Underscore Shoebox on Instagram.
Speaker 2 (34:22):
And you can find me Laura at Laura vandercam dot com.
This has been the best of both worlds podcasts. Please
join us next time for more on making work and
life work together.
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