October 9, 2025 • 44 mins
Bernie Brown met a charming man from a powerful UK family. Their romance had to stay secret. But Bernie would soon learn, the real secret was far more dangerous.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey, Betrayal fans, I have exciting news to share. Season
three of Betrayal is now a docuseries on Hulu. It's
the gripping story of Stacy Tyler and the doctor who
betrayed them. See the voices you've come to know in
Betrayal Under his Eye, streaming now on Hulu.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
So we sat down and he was like, he doesn't
believe in NDA, so he's not going to ask for
one of them. And I was just like, what the
hell is going on here? Like what is happening? And
he was like, oh, do you know what? I think?
I need to tell you a little bit about my
family history.
Speaker 1 (00:52):
I'm Andrea Gunning and this is Betrayal, a show about
the people we trust the most and the deceptions that
change everything. Today, I want to introduce you to Bernie Brown.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
My entire life's being paycheck to paycheck. I'm just very
clever with it. I've cut my own hair for the
past twenty years and colored it because I'm like, well,
if somebody else can do that, why can't I do that.
Speaker 1 (01:19):
While growing up in London, Bernie experienced a difficult upbringing.
Speaker 2 (01:24):
My childhood was very rough. My mum was extremely strong,
but she was going through massive domestic violence with my
dad at one point, very very seriously, we're talking like hospitalization.
Speaker 1 (01:42):
Bernie witnessed his dad's violence at a young age.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
I do remember one time walking into the kitchen and
he had her up by a knife. I actually still
remember to this day the layout of the room. I
remember it very very vividly. She would be the punctioning
bag to make or that we were never harmed.
Speaker 1 (02:05):
His mom was a pillar of strength.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
My mother. Everything I do and the person that I
am now is because of who she was and what
she showed me.
Speaker 1 (02:16):
What Bernie remembers most about his mom was how she
always made everyone feel at home.
Speaker 2 (02:23):
She was always very house proud, always cleaning. When I
hit school, my friends would come over to see her.
She was very much an open door. The door was
never locked, which was probably unsafe, but anyone knocked on
the door, anyone who needed help, regardless of whether she
had it or not, it would always be yes. And
(02:46):
she was very very well known for that.
Speaker 1 (02:49):
When Bernie came out as.
Speaker 2 (02:51):
Gay, my family were lovely with I was very very
very lucky that enabled me to actually be proud and
celebrate it.
Speaker 1 (03:01):
He began to explore the queer scene in London.
Speaker 2 (03:04):
When you first come out as being gay, you've got
the big clubs, you know, the Jyre Storia, which has
closed down now. I spent many a happy even in there.
Shall we say.
Speaker 1 (03:16):
Bernie was living his best life. It was a fun
and exciting time, but deep down he was looking for
real partnership.
Speaker 2 (03:25):
I really wanted to find somebody to settle down with.
I just wanted that one on one connection. I don't
remember actually witnessing a stable relationship, and I think that's
why I so desperately needed one.
Speaker 1 (03:45):
At age eighteen, Bernie found what he was looking for.
Speaker 2 (03:49):
I met my first real boyfriend at the time in London.
We moved to Newcastle, we bought a house, we had
two dogs and two cars, and we had that life.
I must have been twenty two twenty three, and it
wasn't legal in the UK to get married at that point.
(04:11):
So what we did we for a party and we
legally changed our names, so we kind of had our
little version of a wedding and it was just going amazingly.
Speaker 1 (04:20):
He had everything he wanted and it was great for
about eight years, but.
Speaker 2 (04:25):
Then it just didn't work. When that failed. We were
actually very close friends for about ten years after. I
was best man at his wedding.
Speaker 1 (04:37):
After their relationship ended, Bernie's mother's health started to decline.
At the age of forty six, she died of heart failure.
Speaker 2 (04:46):
We had that time to say goodbye, which rarely do
people get. I could actually process it there and then,
and we both said what we felt and you know
what she wanted from us in life.
Speaker 1 (04:59):
Now, Bernie felt truly out on his own. He was
newly single and starting over in this city.
Speaker 2 (05:06):
I was in London. Of course I had flings and
you know all of them that come with it. But
every single time I would never see somebody or sleep
with somebody and instantly just disregard. There would always be
an element of could disco further.
Speaker 1 (05:27):
He was a romantic, but Bernie knew he had to
prioritize himself and his career. After years of working in retail,
Bernie wanted to start a brand of his own, so
he started saving everything he could to start his own
clothing brand.
Speaker 2 (05:42):
I've never never had money at all, but I've always
worked very, very hard for the money that I do have.
I've always wanted to work for myself, not answer to
any one. So I started a clothing T shirt business,
like my own prints and sell them online. And I
was like, it's my time. Let me build something that's
(06:04):
my own.
Speaker 1 (06:07):
Even though Bernie was working a lot, he still wanted
to have a good time.
Speaker 2 (06:11):
I don't need the relationship at the minute, but you know,
you need the physical side of it.
Speaker 1 (06:16):
So he went on Grinder, the dating app for gay men.
Speaker 2 (06:20):
So I was using it happily. I'd actually met some
quite good friends. Now. I actually do still remember the
message come through because I had a glass of wine
and I was sat with a glass of wine and
I got the famous I remember that there was something intriguing.
It was very well written and not the usual first
(06:42):
opening message that you get on that kind of app
in a forward. Do you know it's a nice breath
of fresh air. There's nothing on her. I'll just entertain it.
Speaker 1 (06:52):
His name was Leo, and Bernie had never seen him
on the app before.
Speaker 2 (06:57):
I've not seen you around here before, and it's like, no,
I live in central London by Hyde Park, just around
the corner from Harrod Toe and the other. Instantly I
was like, well hold on there, like twenty pounds.
Speaker 1 (07:08):
Bernie didn't know anyone with a house in Hyde Park.
That was a completely different world.
Speaker 2 (07:14):
Bearing in mind it's grinder. You instantly just think, okay,
all right, this fictional whatever, so you entertain and I
was like, oh, lovely fine.
Speaker 1 (07:26):
Leo was quick to ask him on a date.
Speaker 2 (07:32):
He was like, I'm not big talking on these apps.
I'm around the corner. Why didn't you come over? Nothing untoward.
It was like, just you know, let me cook you
some dinner and we'll just have a glass off wine.
And I then was like, oh, this is very sweet.
He's very well spoken.
Speaker 1 (07:48):
In addition to his apartment in London, Leo also had
a luxury trailer, an airstream that he kept at a
high end campground.
Speaker 2 (07:58):
They've got their own unique garden and plots and all
of these. It's beautiful. So I was like, okay, this
is nice. And there's this big, beautiful white range Rover
that was sat next to it. He was very articulate,
and he did speak Queen's English. It's very smooth, that
(08:20):
pronounces every word as intended by her Majesty the Queen.
I was like, oh my god, I need to, like,
you know, I need to up it a notch.
Speaker 1 (08:30):
Leo made a delicious dinner.
Speaker 2 (08:33):
Instantly, I was taken in just his charm. I've never
met anybody with that smooth charm that isn't patronizing. It
just was focused on me and we had an amazing meal.
Speaker 1 (08:50):
Bernie was really enjoying himself. He liked talking to Leo
and they bonded over cars.
Speaker 2 (08:57):
He went through his picture gallery and he had all
of these cars. We had the Bentley's, we had Aston Martin's,
we had quite a few range Rovers, some old classics,
and he was just flicking through and he was like,
this is my pride and joy, I love cars and
this and the other.
Speaker 1 (09:15):
The pictures also showed that Leo had serious money, a
lot of it.
Speaker 2 (09:21):
You can kind of tell when somebody's got old money
or new money. New money is very much the designer
head to toe, and all of this old money is
you can't really tell if they've got money. They're the chinos,
the nice shirt, the neck tie, that kind and that's
how he was.
Speaker 1 (09:39):
But Bernie didn't understand why he asked him to come
to his trailer instead of his London apartment.
Speaker 2 (09:46):
At that point, he just said he was from a
very influential family within the UK, and because of his family,
he can't be out, he can't be gay, so to
escape all of the craziness, he needs somewhere to get away.
And he said, nobody knows about this caravan, like his
family don't know, security doesn't know. So for him, it's
(10:09):
just his little getaway to just be himself. So I
was like, okay, fine, but at that point I didn't
know who his family was.
Speaker 1 (10:20):
Bernie ended up staying and hanging out with Leo for hours.
Speaker 2 (10:24):
It got dark, it must have been around about eleven
to twelve o'clock at night. It was like, oh, let's
go inside, Let's go in the caravan, and we sat
in the sofa area and just had a conversation were
there's something very weird that happened. It was like, do
you mind if I ask you to do something? Can
you just undress in front of me. I won't touch,
(10:46):
I won't do anything like that buried in way. I
probably had a bottle of wine. So I did and
I got naked and he didn't and it was like
just turn around for me and that was it, and
I was like, okay, you can get dressed now. I
was like what was all that about. It was just like,
I've not been with many men, so I'm a little
(11:09):
bit nervous. Instantly, I was like, oh, that's so sweet.
Speaker 1 (11:18):
They kissed good night, and Bernie got a taxi home.
Speaker 2 (11:21):
Next morning, I woke up and of course there was
the most beautiful message that was on my phone and
he was like, look, I really want to see you again.
I can't get you out in my mind, this and
the other, and we just had normal conversation through the day.
I just started feeling a bit warm. I was just like,
is this really happening.
Speaker 1 (11:41):
They decided on a second date.
Speaker 2 (11:43):
So again I went over. We had something to eat.
The conversation was effortless, the subjects, it was just it
was so smooth. It was as if I'd known him
for years. It was so easy. And then we started
kissing and this, that and the other. And then he
(12:05):
I remember, he started coughing, and I was like, oh,
is everything okay? And I was like, yeah, it's fine.
I'm just I'm very, very nervous. So I was like, listen,
let's just sit take it slow, and you know, see
where we go. Nothing has to happen. And then we
went back to it and with things were happening, and
(12:28):
then he kind of had a coughing fit and he
actually got really serious that. I was like, I'll get
you a glass of water. So I got in my
glass of water and he would not stop coughing. So
I was like, I'm just going to step outside because
by this point he was bringing things up. It was
not romantic at all. And I was outside for about
(12:50):
about ten minutes and all you could hear was this
hacking up. And at that point I stood there and
I was like, what do I do? Do I go do?
I just like to leave, but then my car keys
are in there. This is really awkward. So then he
called me back in and we had this conversation and
he just apologized. And that's when he said that he's
got a few health issues and it's like he's getting
(13:12):
them checked up and it's nothing too serious to worry
about at the minute. And he was like so apologetic.
I was like, honestly, it's fine, let's just watch something.
Calm down. I was like, it's generally not a big deal.
Speaker 1 (13:29):
After Leo recovered from his coughing fit, Bernie stayed and
they ended up having a really lovely evening.
Speaker 2 (13:36):
We had a few dates at that point. It was like,
can I come to yours? So I was like, do
you know what, Yes, come to mine. I will cook
us a nice meal. And then that's the first time
that he came round and he brought the Bentley. This
Bentley Continental white thing pulled up and I was like,
(13:58):
what the hell is this.
Speaker 1 (14:00):
Bernie had seen the pictures of Leo's cars, but he
was skeptical that Leo really owned all of them.
Speaker 2 (14:06):
All the way up until that point, and that was
a few weeks in. I took everything with a pinch
of salt. And then I think that was the first
time when the Bentley pulled up, I'm like, but hold on,
if this is true.
Speaker 1 (14:17):
The Bentley was impressive.
Speaker 2 (14:20):
I'd never even been close to a Bentley jorna ride,
so I was like yes, I was like, come on,
So I got in and we went for a drive
and oh my god, it goes fast, beautiful car.
Speaker 1 (14:32):
Later that night, when they were deep in conversation.
Speaker 2 (14:36):
It slipped in and I was like, oh, I've got
to go down to the Castle today for whatever event
I have to. I'm being dragged down and I was like, Castle,
what's this and it was like, oh, do you know
what I think? I need to tell you a little
bit about my family history.
Speaker 1 (15:14):
Bernie was really enjoying getting to know Leo, a guy
he met on Grinder. He knew Leo came from money,
and after a few dates, he confided in Bernie about
his family's backstory.
Speaker 2 (15:26):
So he sat down and he was like, right, he
doesn't believe in NDA, so he's not going to ask
for one of them. And I was just like, what
the hell is going on here?
Speaker 1 (15:35):
Like what is happening a non disclosure agreement? Bernie wasn't following,
but then.
Speaker 2 (15:43):
He opened up with do you know who the Norfolks are?
And I said no, I have no idea who that is.
So then he went through the family history. So it
was like, my dad's brother is the Duke of Norfolk.
I didn't know who that was. He was like, the
Duke of Norfolk is the highest peerage in the UK
outside of the Royal family. So it's literally the royal family,
(16:06):
then the estate of the Duke of Norfolk. They're bloodline royals,
they're just not direct in line to the front. Obviously.
I had a little look on Google and you can
see on his profile, who the Duke of Norfolk and
the immense responsibility that he has within Britain. So I
was like, okay, fine, so that's your dad's brother. He
(16:28):
was like yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:30):
And Leo's title.
Speaker 2 (16:32):
He was Viscount Norfolk.
Speaker 1 (16:34):
The second and the castle he'd mentioned offhand was a
Rundel Castle, a thousand year old architectural masterpiece in the
south of England.
Speaker 2 (16:44):
And it was like, let me show you something, because
at that point he'd brung an overyebag and he had
this Cartier box, quite slim and opened. It was a
crest with flower spikes all around it, circular shape with
the Saint George's cross in the middle, then had some
(17:06):
inscriptions on it and it had the House of Norfolk
and fitz Allen, and he said, we have to carry
this everywhere we go, badges and emblems and crests because
if somebody passes they need it instantly for a sign
of respect and all this. I held it. It was
so heavy and I was just like, what is going
on in my life? Ride this minute in time? You know,
(17:27):
I've got somebody here that is amazing and like so
into me. But at the same time, also with the
Bentley upfront and I'm sitting here holding this big royal crest.
Speaker 1 (17:48):
Bernie couldn't wrap his mind around it, and I was.
Speaker 2 (17:51):
Like, I don't know what to say. And it was like,
it's fine, It's like, just ask any questions that you
have and I was like, I literally don't have questions,
Like my mind his blank.
Speaker 1 (18:01):
This was really big. Leo came from a very important
and complicated world. Bernie didn't know what it would mean
for his relationship with Leo.
Speaker 2 (18:13):
He was like, I want to keep us separate. You
know that I have to do this with you. I
want to do and he was like, until we figure
out how or if we can mix this, let's just
try it. So I was like, look, I'm fine with that.
I'm not here and I never have been impressed by money. Obviously,
I'm impressed by the Bentley, but I'm not here for
(18:35):
anything other than you.
Speaker 1 (18:37):
This was a pivotal moment. The conversation deepened their connection.
Speaker 2 (18:42):
That was then the first day that he had opened
up and he trusted me. He trusted me with his
secret and his family and his line. I think that
was the first time that I was like, yeah, he
really likes me.
Speaker 1 (18:57):
Leo let Bernie into his inner circle, but he made
it clear privacy and discretion was critical.
Speaker 2 (19:07):
The first few months after that, it was amazing. He
really genuinely wanted to see me happy and to take
care of me.
Speaker 1 (19:20):
Bernie and Leo were spending more and more time with
each other.
Speaker 2 (19:23):
He pretty much moved in. I think that was about
a month and a half in. I gave McKey and
I literally just said, you know, use it whenever you want.
Speaker 1 (19:33):
Leo never missed a moment to make Bernie feel loved.
Speaker 2 (19:36):
If I was on a late shift, I would finish
ten eleven o'clock at night, and then he would be
there with dinner with flowers. At that minute in time,
I had felt the happiest, settled and loved. Then I
would probably say bar my mom than I had ever
(19:57):
felt in my life.
Speaker 1 (19:59):
Even though Leo came from a wealthy background, he worked
hard and had a career he was passionate about.
Speaker 2 (20:07):
He knew about watches, he was a horologist, he had
been to Switzerland, studied at the best places. He absolutely
knew everything. He had space to do a little studio.
He was taking all of these rolexes apart and in
front of me, putting them back together, and then he
was like, I'm licensed by Rolex to do that.
Speaker 1 (20:27):
It was a very competitive certification. But luxury watches were
Leo's life.
Speaker 2 (20:33):
He always had Rolex Flip on his arm.
Speaker 1 (20:37):
Within a few months, they were spending almost every night together.
They were exclusive. Bernie was starting to think that Leo
could be the one. There was only one big concern,
and that was Leo's health. It was there from the beginning,
but Bernie was seeing his symptoms worsen. Leo wasn't just coughing,
(20:59):
he was now throwing up.
Speaker 2 (21:03):
He went silent for I want to say two days. Now.
By that point, please realize that two days, when I
am now fully into this, fully into the emotion, is
like two weeks.
Speaker 1 (21:20):
During those two days, Bernie was desperate to hear from Leo.
While he waited, his mind began to spin.
Speaker 2 (21:27):
What have I done? Have I said something? I went
back through WhatsApps and this is only two days of
no conversation. I went through WhatsApps to find out what
I've said that he could possibly take offense with anyway.
He eventually came back and basically apologized for not being
in contact with me over the two days.
Speaker 1 (21:47):
Leo had a good reason for being out of touch.
He'd been in the hospital.
Speaker 2 (21:52):
He was like, I can't say anything over the phone,
but I just need to get out of London my
family going into a panic, and try to keep this maintained,
you know, make sure that it doesn't go to any press.
He was like, can I just come to yourselves? Like absolutely.
At that point, he told me that he was suffering
from brain cancer and they've given him a year to live,
(22:17):
and obviously he had a lot of process and that
he needed to do.
Speaker 1 (22:23):
Bernie was devastated. He wanted to be there for Leo
any way he could.
Speaker 2 (22:28):
I'm just going to sit here and be quiet. You
talk to me, you vent me, you get your frustrations out,
anything that is in your mind. I was like, you
literally throw them at me. This is what I'm here
to do. And he did, and he got upset, he
got angry, he was crying, and then he got to
the US conversation and he said, I can't really see
(22:50):
you anymore.
Speaker 1 (22:51):
Leo didn't want to be a burden.
Speaker 2 (22:54):
He was like, look, I can't promise you anything. If
this is how my life is going to end, there's
bits may not be pretty, and I was like, look,
I really don't care. I was like, if I have
to be a complete secret, even if we have to
break up, just I want to be your friend. It
wasn't about any of the sex or the relationship for me.
It was this person that was in front of me.
Speaker 1 (23:16):
To Bernie's surprise, Leo even brought up as well.
Speaker 2 (23:20):
He was like, obviously he can't change that because if
he put my name in there, they all questions will
come up with who. And I was like, I really
do not care. I was like, I literally do not
care about any of that. I was like, if you
get to that point, I will be here as much
as you need me to.
Speaker 1 (23:40):
Leo couldn't come out to his family, so in order
for Bernie to stay in his life, he suggested Bernie
pretend to be his assistant or driver. It was the
kind of arrangement Bernie wouldn't have agreed to under normal circumstances,
but he was willing to do anything to make sure
he could care for Leo.
Speaker 2 (23:56):
So he agreed, and I meant it one hundred percent,
not a second guess in my mind.
Speaker 1 (24:04):
So Bernie immediately focused on helping Leo make sense of
his diagnosis.
Speaker 2 (24:09):
I went online. I researched the hell out of it
down to all different methods, and I mean I did
go crazy with it, to be honest. I was there
for at least an entire twenty four hours googling research
and what this meant experimental drugs, and like, I just
went to town with everything that I could find out.
Speaker 1 (24:31):
But Leo had already accepted that he didn't have much
time left.
Speaker 2 (24:36):
He was talking about that he might not actually go
for chemo because he just wants to just end it
on his terms in Switzerland. That was a conversation that
we had. And then that's when we went onto a
conversation about I think I need to start living my
life while I've got it, and I was like, right, okay,
so let's do that.
Speaker 1 (24:53):
For Leo, living his life to the fullest meant finally
launching his own watch restoration business that would be his legacy.
He had a collection of incredible luxury watches and he
couldn't take them with him.
Speaker 2 (25:08):
One day he said to me, I've got all of
these watches. I might just start selling them because I
kind of like swap in a buying trade on this site.
And He's like, I kind of want to build something,
so instantly I kicked in. I was like, I can
build you a website. Let's register this company, and I did.
We had quite a few business meetings on how the
logo is going to look, what it's called, setting up
(25:30):
all of the social media for it, and I sat
on my little photoshop and I'd done the logo and
the company was called The Vintage Crown.
Speaker 1 (25:40):
Leo wanted Bernie to list all of his watches and
post them online, so he brought his entire collection to
Bernie's house.
Speaker 2 (25:48):
We came up and he literally had about two three
trunks of watches. I mean, I've got all the pictures
on my phone. Still, there was countless Rolelexes. There was
the tet Feliks, there was Van Kleef and Urpools. They
were stunning. There must have been i'd say close to
(26:08):
one hundred one hundred watches in my lounge on this table.
And there was this very very old Rolex. The gloss,
the watch face was quite rounded.
Speaker 1 (26:19):
Bernie picked up the watch. It was heavy and ornate.
Speaker 2 (26:24):
It was like, this is probably the most expensive watch
that I own, and I was like, well, how much
is it worth? It was like you check it out.
So it's like, go on the Rolex website, turn the
watch over. I typed in the cerial number and it
came in at one point two million. At that point,
I probably had aboute hundred pound in my bank account,
so I'm like one point two million. It was just
(26:47):
insane to think of the money that was sat right
in front of me.
Speaker 1 (27:12):
Leo had a staggering collection of luxury watches, and as
Bernie helped Leo launch his new watch business, Bernie got
a taste of that world. Like when Bernie came with
him to run errands at high end London department.
Speaker 2 (27:25):
Stores and whenever we walked into Harold's, they knew of him.
They addressed him by his name, talking about previous purchases
that he had made, and full conversations.
Speaker 1 (27:37):
He even asked Bernie to go to Selfridges, another luxury
department store in London for an exclusive event.
Speaker 2 (27:45):
It's a private party of VIP, but it would be
quite nice if you can come with me just to
experience a bit of that lifestyle. And I was like, oh,
like absolutely yeah, I'll come out. So we got dressed,
made away into central London, walk into Selfridges and it
was red carpet, all of that.
Speaker 1 (28:04):
This event was a big deal, and Leo was a
big deal. There. Everyone greeted him by name and immediately
people were vying for his attention.
Speaker 2 (28:15):
So he went into this private VIP area through the door.
Speaker 1 (28:20):
Leo was there to look at a specific.
Speaker 2 (28:22):
Watch, and then he sent me a message and was like, Okay,
we've kind of done with the finance side, do you
want to come in? So I was absolutely so I
went in and it was a private room with a
head of European sales. The room was gorgeous. We had
or dirves that were laid out and the watches were
laid out in front of me. These ridiculous, I mean
the price of a house, these watches in front of us,
(28:44):
and it was just this woman, Leo and me.
Speaker 1 (28:51):
Leo bought two watches that day as gifts for family members.
With Bernie's help, Leo's watch business got off the ground,
and as a thank you, he would let Bernie borrow
some of the pieces.
Speaker 2 (29:03):
If we'd go for dinner, he'd give me a Rolex
or a a tech Philippin. He then called one day
and he said, this Rolex has come my way for
me to recondition and to sell. It's just a Sa Mariner.
I've got quite a few of them anyway. But he
was like, I thought of you.
Speaker 1 (29:20):
Leo was making him an offer.
Speaker 2 (29:23):
He was like, look, you buy it off of me
for twenty thousand. I will recondition it, I'll make it
look as good as new, i will polish it, I
will have it back up. And it's usually worth about
thirty to forty thousand.
Speaker 1 (29:38):
Twenty grand up front. It would be a huge investment
for Bernie. And then Leo would resell it at a
profit of at least ten thousand pounds.
Speaker 2 (29:48):
Of course, it would be amazing. That extra ten ground
for me at this minute in time would open up doors.
I've never had just a ten thousand pounds sum in
my account.
Speaker 1 (29:58):
But Bernie didn't have twenty thousand pounds just lying around.
Speaker 2 (30:02):
And I was all right. I was like at the
first I just don't have anywhere near that money whatsoever. Literally,
I think for my entire life it's been paycheck to paycheck.
I'm just very clever with it. Nowhere do I have
that kind of money.
Speaker 1 (30:16):
Leo had an idea, what about Bernie's clothing business. It
wasn't as successful as the watch sales.
Speaker 2 (30:24):
So he said, well the clothes was like, you know,
it's taking too much of your time. Is it really
doing anything? And I was like, it's getting a bit tiring,
And so I said, look, why don't you just sell
sell all of the clothes just in bulk. Somebody will
buy it it, sell the website off, like, sell the business,
get this watch, and then use that lump sum for
(30:44):
how whatever you want to do your next project.
Speaker 1 (30:48):
Bernie had a few ideas for new businesses he wanted
to start. The investment in the watch represented a new chapter,
so he started crunching the numbers.
Speaker 2 (30:58):
I was like, look, I can take this money out
of all of my credit cards. But if I do
that with my bills, my wage in retail will it
won't even cover half of all them repayments in one
go by maxing out them cars. So he said, look,
once I've got the money, it will take about a
week for the watch to get here. So I will
(31:20):
recondition it, I'll get it sent to you. You'll sell
it before you next get paid if I get it.
But I'd never do anything to hurt you. This is
for your benefit. Look, if it's too much then you
know what, let's just not do it. Let's just just
forget about it completely. And by that point I was like,
I'd already kind of imagined if I sell all of
this stuff and I take from these credit cards, by
(31:42):
the end of it, I could have ten to twenty
thousand pounds, which is just mine to do with. So
I was like, right, okay, I trust him one hundred percent,
let's just do this. Bernie was in So I sold
the website off and then I think that only got
about half of it, maybe a little bit more. And
then I did have a few credit cards, so I
(32:03):
got rid of the final bits of the clothes, took
out from every credit card that I had, maxed it out,
and gave it him.
Speaker 1 (32:15):
Bernie got fifteen thousand pounds from maxed out credit cards.
For the rest of the money, he took out an
incredibly high interest loan.
Speaker 2 (32:24):
These payday loans, the interest rate is seventy nine percent
per month, and that's more than what you've borrowed.
Speaker 1 (32:32):
Bernie was putting everything on the line. He sent Leo
the twenty thousand, and Leo ordered the watch.
Speaker 2 (32:39):
It'd been delivered to his Hyde Park address.
Speaker 1 (32:43):
But it was the week of Christmas and Leo wasn't home.
He was at the castle.
Speaker 2 (32:49):
He has responsibilities around the UK, so he was up
there doing official business and he will get.
Speaker 1 (32:54):
To it with the holidays. It could be a week
before Leo got to the watch. That meant weeks before
they could resell it.
Speaker 2 (33:02):
That's when I started panicking because at that point there
is absolutely no way that I am going to be
able to cover that next payment. And I told him
that I am getting nervous because I know the tsunami
that's coming if this isn't paid.
Speaker 1 (33:19):
But Leo was calm. He handled deals like this all
the time.
Speaker 2 (33:24):
He just kept reassuring me, saying, look, there's a little
bit of a delay. I've got a buyer. I've got
somebody that's interested. As soon as I can get my
hands down to this watch. It will take me one
day to recondition it because it's in very good quality,
and I will literally have a buyer for you within
twenty four hours.
Speaker 1 (33:45):
After that, Leo seemed to change. The loving calls and
texts started dwindling.
Speaker 2 (33:52):
The communication with me and him went very sparse. The
morning messages, which by this point had constantly continued If
I had even to the point if he was staying
at mine and I woke up at four in the
morning to go to work, when he woke up, I
would still get that morning message.
Speaker 1 (34:10):
And now those techs stopped coming. Their connection started to
feel less like a romantic relationship and more like a
business partnership.
Speaker 2 (34:19):
It went from loving and just amazing conversations to all
about the watch.
Speaker 1 (34:30):
For Bernie, this cold shoulder really hurt. Obviously he was
concerned about the watch, but that wasn't what he really
cared about.
Speaker 2 (34:42):
I am fully in depth, I am fully in love
with him.
Speaker 1 (34:48):
In seven months, Leo had become the center point of
his life.
Speaker 2 (34:52):
He was my world at that point, and there was
nothing else that I was concentrated on. I had stopped
talking to my friend, even my best friend. I'd stopped
talking to my family, and all of a sudden, this
person is completely disregarding me. I was panicking then. I
was then going back to that state. What have I done?
(35:13):
What have I said? I know it's Christmas. I don't
want to contact him too much because I know that
he's working and he's probably with people with his family.
But at the same time, I'm panicking because I'm not
getting that response. Then comes Christmas Eve and he kind
of goes silent a little bit, and then I get
Christmas Eve. I get a few messages, very cold, and
(35:38):
it was like I'm with people, I can't talk. I
was like, okay, I just wanted to wish you a
merry Christmas.
Speaker 1 (35:45):
It was important for Leo to spend time with his
family because he had so little time left. Maybe the
reality of his diagnosis was finally hitting him. Bernie understood
why Leo might be pulling away, but it still starts.
Speaker 2 (36:00):
Next morning, I did actually get quite a nice message.
It's just like Merry Christmas, handsome and blah blah blah
blah blah. I instantly my mood I was uplifted. I
was like, oh, it's okay. What's your plans for today?
It was I went straight into that puppy mode like
(36:22):
he could do no wrong. And he said, I'm with
my family all day. I won't be able to contact
you for the next two days. I was like, Okay,
that's absolutely fine. I get it. It's Christmas, you are
supposed to spend that with your family.
Speaker 1 (36:34):
Bernie spent that Christmas alone waiting for a message from Leo.
But that day Bernie noticed something strange.
Speaker 2 (36:44):
It seemed like.
Speaker 1 (36:45):
Leo was actually spending Christmas Day with another man, someone
Bernie had never seen before.
Speaker 2 (36:54):
There was a picture on his WhatsApp update. It was him,
but there was somebody else in the background. There was
this guy just walking towards the camera, looking directly in
the camera as if he was going to say something,
and it was the inside of a church, and it
just bugged me.
Speaker 1 (37:13):
For a few days, Bernie stared at the photo, practically
memorizing every detail.
Speaker 2 (37:18):
Anyway, So on the twenty seventh, heet messaged. I was like, sorry,
I've not been I've been with family, this and the other.
I was like, okay, how was your Christmas to check
up to so much? And he was like, no, we
just really stayed around the castle and then we didn't
really do anything. I was like, oh, what about the church?
I was like, what church? And then it was just
like I was like, oh, I just saw your update
on your WhatsApp and it was a picture of a church.
(37:41):
I was like, I don't know what you're talking about.
You didn't see anything.
Speaker 1 (37:44):
But Bernie had looked at the photo over and over
he knew what he saw and I.
Speaker 2 (37:50):
Was like, no, it was I didn't do an update.
That was no update. And then he got into such
denial he was adamant and quite nasty with it that
I completely made it up. I did not see it.
There was nothing on his profile.
Speaker 1 (38:08):
It was the first time Leo had acted like this.
He was defensive and angry over something so small. He
knew it meant Leo might be hiding something. So Bernie
pulled back a bit.
Speaker 2 (38:21):
I kind of slowed down message in him. I don't
get a call again quite late at night, and it's
like I've just had a massive argument with my family.
Speaker 1 (38:30):
On the other end of the phone, Leo was hysterical.
Speaker 2 (38:34):
And he's like, Bernie, I can't take this. I can't
take this life anymore, the stress that I've been under.
I just don't like my family. I don't want to
do this anymore. Can you come and get me? So
of course I've then said yes instantly. Where are you?
Calm down, stay on the phone with me.
Speaker 1 (38:52):
Leo sent an address. It was a five hour drive
from London, so Bernie got in the car and stayed
on the phone with Leo while he drove through the
night to meet him. At two am, he picked up
Leo and brought them to a hotel.
Speaker 2 (39:07):
We stayed the night. We had a long conversation about
his stress levels and he's sorry that he's been distant
and he doesn't how to cope with this as well
as his diagnosis. And at the end of this he'll
get the watch. He's going to go down, he'll get it,
and if he hasn't got it by this point, he
will give me the money and then sell it on himself.
And I just felt seeing and he was in tears.
(39:30):
He went asleep and I was stroking his hair. It
was as if this guy was broken, broken with life.
Speaker 1 (39:39):
There in the hotel room, Bernie finally fell close to
Leo again. Leo needed him, and Bernie would do anything
to make him happy. The next morning, Leo seemed renewed,
back to his old self. He confessed to Bernie that
he had been hiding something. Now he was finally ready
(40:02):
to talk about it.
Speaker 2 (40:03):
It's like, so, I've got a serious question that I
need to ask you, and I've been thinking about this
with everything that's been going on, and I was like, okay,
and it was like I've had enough of this entire
life that I have to do and I'm done with it.
I want to move away. And he was like, I
(40:23):
want to move somewhere in Scotland. Would you come with me?
And I was like sorry, I was like what. I
was like, I've seen this house. I've been thinking about
this for a long time and I was going to
go on my own. And that's why I've been distant
because I didn't know what I was going to do.
But I want you to come with me.
Speaker 1 (40:43):
Leo was dead serious. He was ready to put in
an offer on a house.
Speaker 2 (40:48):
I was like, I've already contacted the estate agent. This
house was a full on castle in the Scottish Islands.
When you think the quintessence English castle. It was exactly that.
Speaker 1 (41:04):
They looked at the listening together and started imagining a
new life there. They wouldn't have to hide from Leo's
family or the press. Bernie could take care of Leo
as his cancer progressed, and whatever came next, they could
face it together.
Speaker 2 (41:20):
It's like, I just wanted to be me and you
and I was like yes. And it's difficult now to
really kind of explain exactly how it felt, because his
world at certain points starts to crumble and he has
(41:41):
to get what he can do and run to create
another life for himself. But in the end it was
all a lie.
Speaker 1 (41:55):
On the next episode of Betrayal Weekly, I emailed Arundel Cars,
which is the official residence of the Duke of Norfolk.
Speaker 2 (42:04):
There was absolutely no record of Leo Howard, Leo Bosehoward
or absolutely anything. So then I started doing my own research.
This person, this Leo Howard, there was absolutely no trace.
Speaker 1 (42:25):
Before we end the episode, I have some exciting news.
Betrayal will be doing our first ever live show as
part of the Virgin Voyage's True Crime Cruise. We'll be
answering listener questions and discussing them live on stage with
Stacey and Tyler from Betrayal season three, as well as
Caroline from season four. So if you have a question
(42:46):
for us, please email us at betrayalpod at gmail dot
com with the subject line listener question and if you
want to join us on the Caribbean cruise, there are
still spots available search Virgin Voyages dot com true Crime.
If you would like to reach out to the Betrayal
team or want to tell us your Betrayal story, email
(43:09):
us at Betrayalpod at gmail dot com. That's Betrayal Pod
at gmail dot com, or follow us on Instagram at
Betrayal Pod. You can also connect with me on Instagram
at It's Andrea Gunning. To access our newsletter, view additional content,
and connect with the Betrayal community, join our substack at
(43:29):
Betrayal dot substack dot com. We're grateful for your support.
One way to show support is by subscribing to our
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review Betrayal five star reviews go a long way. A
big thank you to all of our listeners. Betrayal is
a production of Glass Podcasts, a division of Glass Entertainment
Group and partnership with iHeart Podcasts. The show is executive
(43:52):
produced by Nancy Glass and Jennifer Fason, hosted and produced
by me Andrea Gunning, written and produced by Olivia Hu
and Monique Leboard, also produced by Ben Fetterman. Associate producers
are Caitlin Golden and Kristin Melcuri. Casting support from Curry Richmond.
Our iHeart team is Ali Perry and Jessica Krincheck. Audio
(44:14):
editing and mixing by Matt del Vechio. Additional audio editing
by Tanner Robbins, betrayal's theme composed by Oliver Bains. Music
library provided by mob Music and for more podcasts from iHeart,
visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get
your podcasts
Hey, Betrayal fans, I have exciting news to share. Season
three of Betrayal is now a docuseries on Hulu. It's
the gripping story of Stacy Tyler and the doctor who
betrayed them. See the voices you've come to know in
Betrayal Under his Eye, streaming now on Hulu.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
So we sat down and he was like, he doesn't
believe in NDA, so he's not going to ask for
one of them. And I was just like, what the
hell is going on here? Like what is happening? And
he was like, oh, do you know what? I think?
I need to tell you a little bit about my
family history.
Speaker 1 (00:52):
I'm Andrea Gunning and this is Betrayal, a show about
the people we trust the most and the deceptions that
change everything. Today, I want to introduce you to Bernie Brown.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
My entire life's being paycheck to paycheck. I'm just very
clever with it. I've cut my own hair for the
past twenty years and colored it because I'm like, well,
if somebody else can do that, why can't I do that.
Speaker 1 (01:19):
While growing up in London, Bernie experienced a difficult upbringing.
Speaker 2 (01:24):
My childhood was very rough. My mum was extremely strong,
but she was going through massive domestic violence with my
dad at one point, very very seriously, we're talking like hospitalization.
Speaker 1 (01:42):
Bernie witnessed his dad's violence at a young age.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
I do remember one time walking into the kitchen and
he had her up by a knife. I actually still
remember to this day the layout of the room. I
remember it very very vividly. She would be the punctioning
bag to make or that we were never harmed.
Speaker 1 (02:05):
His mom was a pillar of strength.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
My mother. Everything I do and the person that I
am now is because of who she was and what
she showed me.
Speaker 1 (02:16):
What Bernie remembers most about his mom was how she
always made everyone feel at home.
Speaker 2 (02:23):
She was always very house proud, always cleaning. When I
hit school, my friends would come over to see her.
She was very much an open door. The door was
never locked, which was probably unsafe, but anyone knocked on
the door, anyone who needed help, regardless of whether she
had it or not, it would always be yes. And
(02:46):
she was very very well known for that.
Speaker 1 (02:49):
When Bernie came out as.
Speaker 2 (02:51):
Gay, my family were lovely with I was very very
very lucky that enabled me to actually be proud and
celebrate it.
Speaker 1 (03:01):
He began to explore the queer scene in London.
Speaker 2 (03:04):
When you first come out as being gay, you've got
the big clubs, you know, the Jyre Storia, which has
closed down now. I spent many a happy even in there.
Shall we say.
Speaker 1 (03:16):
Bernie was living his best life. It was a fun
and exciting time, but deep down he was looking for
real partnership.
Speaker 2 (03:25):
I really wanted to find somebody to settle down with.
I just wanted that one on one connection. I don't
remember actually witnessing a stable relationship, and I think that's
why I so desperately needed one.
Speaker 1 (03:45):
At age eighteen, Bernie found what he was looking for.
Speaker 2 (03:49):
I met my first real boyfriend at the time in London.
We moved to Newcastle, we bought a house, we had
two dogs and two cars, and we had that life.
I must have been twenty two twenty three, and it
wasn't legal in the UK to get married at that point.
(04:11):
So what we did we for a party and we
legally changed our names, so we kind of had our
little version of a wedding and it was just going amazingly.
Speaker 1 (04:20):
He had everything he wanted and it was great for
about eight years, but.
Speaker 2 (04:25):
Then it just didn't work. When that failed. We were
actually very close friends for about ten years after. I
was best man at his wedding.
Speaker 1 (04:37):
After their relationship ended, Bernie's mother's health started to decline.
At the age of forty six, she died of heart failure.
Speaker 2 (04:46):
We had that time to say goodbye, which rarely do
people get. I could actually process it there and then,
and we both said what we felt and you know
what she wanted from us in life.
Speaker 1 (04:59):
Now, Bernie felt truly out on his own. He was
newly single and starting over in this city.
Speaker 2 (05:06):
I was in London. Of course I had flings and
you know all of them that come with it. But
every single time I would never see somebody or sleep
with somebody and instantly just disregard. There would always be
an element of could disco further.
Speaker 1 (05:27):
He was a romantic, but Bernie knew he had to
prioritize himself and his career. After years of working in retail,
Bernie wanted to start a brand of his own, so
he started saving everything he could to start his own
clothing brand.
Speaker 2 (05:42):
I've never never had money at all, but I've always
worked very, very hard for the money that I do have.
I've always wanted to work for myself, not answer to
any one. So I started a clothing T shirt business,
like my own prints and sell them online. And I
was like, it's my time. Let me build something that's
(06:04):
my own.
Speaker 1 (06:07):
Even though Bernie was working a lot, he still wanted
to have a good time.
Speaker 2 (06:11):
I don't need the relationship at the minute, but you know,
you need the physical side of it.
Speaker 1 (06:16):
So he went on Grinder, the dating app for gay men.
Speaker 2 (06:20):
So I was using it happily. I'd actually met some
quite good friends. Now. I actually do still remember the
message come through because I had a glass of wine
and I was sat with a glass of wine and
I got the famous I remember that there was something intriguing.
It was very well written and not the usual first
(06:42):
opening message that you get on that kind of app
in a forward. Do you know it's a nice breath
of fresh air. There's nothing on her. I'll just entertain it.
Speaker 1 (06:52):
His name was Leo, and Bernie had never seen him
on the app before.
Speaker 2 (06:57):
I've not seen you around here before, and it's like, no,
I live in central London by Hyde Park, just around
the corner from Harrod Toe and the other. Instantly I
was like, well hold on there, like twenty pounds.
Speaker 1 (07:08):
Bernie didn't know anyone with a house in Hyde Park.
That was a completely different world.
Speaker 2 (07:14):
Bearing in mind it's grinder. You instantly just think, okay,
all right, this fictional whatever, so you entertain and I
was like, oh, lovely fine.
Speaker 1 (07:26):
Leo was quick to ask him on a date.
Speaker 2 (07:32):
He was like, I'm not big talking on these apps.
I'm around the corner. Why didn't you come over? Nothing untoward.
It was like, just you know, let me cook you
some dinner and we'll just have a glass off wine.
And I then was like, oh, this is very sweet.
He's very well spoken.
Speaker 1 (07:48):
In addition to his apartment in London, Leo also had
a luxury trailer, an airstream that he kept at a
high end campground.
Speaker 2 (07:58):
They've got their own unique garden and plots and all
of these. It's beautiful. So I was like, okay, this
is nice. And there's this big, beautiful white range Rover
that was sat next to it. He was very articulate,
and he did speak Queen's English. It's very smooth, that
(08:20):
pronounces every word as intended by her Majesty the Queen.
I was like, oh my god, I need to, like,
you know, I need to up it a notch.
Speaker 1 (08:30):
Leo made a delicious dinner.
Speaker 2 (08:33):
Instantly, I was taken in just his charm. I've never
met anybody with that smooth charm that isn't patronizing. It
just was focused on me and we had an amazing meal.
Speaker 1 (08:50):
Bernie was really enjoying himself. He liked talking to Leo
and they bonded over cars.
Speaker 2 (08:57):
He went through his picture gallery and he had all
of these cars. We had the Bentley's, we had Aston Martin's,
we had quite a few range Rovers, some old classics,
and he was just flicking through and he was like,
this is my pride and joy, I love cars and
this and the other.
Speaker 1 (09:15):
The pictures also showed that Leo had serious money, a
lot of it.
Speaker 2 (09:21):
You can kind of tell when somebody's got old money
or new money. New money is very much the designer
head to toe, and all of this old money is
you can't really tell if they've got money. They're the chinos,
the nice shirt, the neck tie, that kind and that's
how he was.
Speaker 1 (09:39):
But Bernie didn't understand why he asked him to come
to his trailer instead of his London apartment.
Speaker 2 (09:46):
At that point, he just said he was from a
very influential family within the UK, and because of his family,
he can't be out, he can't be gay, so to
escape all of the craziness, he needs somewhere to get away.
And he said, nobody knows about this caravan, like his
family don't know, security doesn't know. So for him, it's
(10:09):
just his little getaway to just be himself. So I
was like, okay, fine, but at that point I didn't
know who his family was.
Speaker 1 (10:20):
Bernie ended up staying and hanging out with Leo for hours.
Speaker 2 (10:24):
It got dark, it must have been around about eleven
to twelve o'clock at night. It was like, oh, let's
go inside, Let's go in the caravan, and we sat
in the sofa area and just had a conversation were
there's something very weird that happened. It was like, do
you mind if I ask you to do something? Can
you just undress in front of me. I won't touch,
(10:46):
I won't do anything like that buried in way. I
probably had a bottle of wine. So I did and
I got naked and he didn't and it was like
just turn around for me and that was it, and
I was like, okay, you can get dressed now. I
was like what was all that about. It was just like,
I've not been with many men, so I'm a little
(11:09):
bit nervous. Instantly, I was like, oh, that's so sweet.
Speaker 1 (11:18):
They kissed good night, and Bernie got a taxi home.
Speaker 2 (11:21):
Next morning, I woke up and of course there was
the most beautiful message that was on my phone and
he was like, look, I really want to see you again.
I can't get you out in my mind, this and
the other, and we just had normal conversation through the day.
I just started feeling a bit warm. I was just like,
is this really happening.
Speaker 1 (11:41):
They decided on a second date.
Speaker 2 (11:43):
So again I went over. We had something to eat.
The conversation was effortless, the subjects, it was just it
was so smooth. It was as if I'd known him
for years. It was so easy. And then we started
kissing and this, that and the other. And then he
(12:05):
I remember, he started coughing, and I was like, oh,
is everything okay? And I was like, yeah, it's fine.
I'm just I'm very, very nervous. So I was like, listen,
let's just sit take it slow, and you know, see
where we go. Nothing has to happen. And then we
went back to it and with things were happening, and
(12:28):
then he kind of had a coughing fit and he
actually got really serious that. I was like, I'll get
you a glass of water. So I got in my
glass of water and he would not stop coughing. So
I was like, I'm just going to step outside because
by this point he was bringing things up. It was
not romantic at all. And I was outside for about
(12:50):
about ten minutes and all you could hear was this
hacking up. And at that point I stood there and
I was like, what do I do? Do I go do?
I just like to leave, but then my car keys
are in there. This is really awkward. So then he
called me back in and we had this conversation and
he just apologized. And that's when he said that he's
got a few health issues and it's like he's getting
(13:12):
them checked up and it's nothing too serious to worry
about at the minute. And he was like so apologetic.
I was like, honestly, it's fine, let's just watch something.
Calm down. I was like, it's generally not a big deal.
Speaker 1 (13:29):
After Leo recovered from his coughing fit, Bernie stayed and
they ended up having a really lovely evening.
Speaker 2 (13:36):
We had a few dates at that point. It was like,
can I come to yours? So I was like, do
you know what, Yes, come to mine. I will cook
us a nice meal. And then that's the first time
that he came round and he brought the Bentley. This
Bentley Continental white thing pulled up and I was like,
(13:58):
what the hell is this.
Speaker 1 (14:00):
Bernie had seen the pictures of Leo's cars, but he
was skeptical that Leo really owned all of them.
Speaker 2 (14:06):
All the way up until that point, and that was
a few weeks in. I took everything with a pinch
of salt. And then I think that was the first
time when the Bentley pulled up, I'm like, but hold on,
if this is true.
Speaker 1 (14:17):
The Bentley was impressive.
Speaker 2 (14:20):
I'd never even been close to a Bentley jorna ride,
so I was like yes, I was like, come on,
So I got in and we went for a drive
and oh my god, it goes fast, beautiful car.
Speaker 1 (14:32):
Later that night, when they were deep in conversation.
Speaker 2 (14:36):
It slipped in and I was like, oh, I've got
to go down to the Castle today for whatever event
I have to. I'm being dragged down and I was like, Castle,
what's this and it was like, oh, do you know
what I think? I need to tell you a little
bit about my family history.
Speaker 1 (15:14):
Bernie was really enjoying getting to know Leo, a guy
he met on Grinder. He knew Leo came from money,
and after a few dates, he confided in Bernie about
his family's backstory.
Speaker 2 (15:26):
So he sat down and he was like, right, he
doesn't believe in NDA, so he's not going to ask
for one of them. And I was just like, what
the hell is going on here?
Speaker 1 (15:35):
Like what is happening a non disclosure agreement? Bernie wasn't following,
but then.
Speaker 2 (15:43):
He opened up with do you know who the Norfolks are?
And I said no, I have no idea who that is.
So then he went through the family history. So it
was like, my dad's brother is the Duke of Norfolk.
I didn't know who that was. He was like, the
Duke of Norfolk is the highest peerage in the UK
outside of the Royal family. So it's literally the royal family,
(16:06):
then the estate of the Duke of Norfolk. They're bloodline royals,
they're just not direct in line to the front. Obviously.
I had a little look on Google and you can
see on his profile, who the Duke of Norfolk and
the immense responsibility that he has within Britain. So I
was like, okay, fine, so that's your dad's brother. He
(16:28):
was like yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:30):
And Leo's title.
Speaker 2 (16:32):
He was Viscount Norfolk.
Speaker 1 (16:34):
The second and the castle he'd mentioned offhand was a
Rundel Castle, a thousand year old architectural masterpiece in the
south of England.
Speaker 2 (16:44):
And it was like, let me show you something, because
at that point he'd brung an overyebag and he had
this Cartier box, quite slim and opened. It was a
crest with flower spikes all around it, circular shape with
the Saint George's cross in the middle, then had some
(17:06):
inscriptions on it and it had the House of Norfolk
and fitz Allen, and he said, we have to carry
this everywhere we go, badges and emblems and crests because
if somebody passes they need it instantly for a sign
of respect and all this. I held it. It was
so heavy and I was just like, what is going
on in my life? Ride this minute in time? You know,
(17:27):
I've got somebody here that is amazing and like so
into me. But at the same time, also with the
Bentley upfront and I'm sitting here holding this big royal crest.
Speaker 1 (17:48):
Bernie couldn't wrap his mind around it, and I was.
Speaker 2 (17:51):
Like, I don't know what to say. And it was like,
it's fine, It's like, just ask any questions that you
have and I was like, I literally don't have questions,
Like my mind his blank.
Speaker 1 (18:01):
This was really big. Leo came from a very important
and complicated world. Bernie didn't know what it would mean
for his relationship with Leo.
Speaker 2 (18:13):
He was like, I want to keep us separate. You
know that I have to do this with you. I
want to do and he was like, until we figure
out how or if we can mix this, let's just
try it. So I was like, look, I'm fine with that.
I'm not here and I never have been impressed by money. Obviously,
I'm impressed by the Bentley, but I'm not here for
(18:35):
anything other than you.
Speaker 1 (18:37):
This was a pivotal moment. The conversation deepened their connection.
Speaker 2 (18:42):
That was then the first day that he had opened
up and he trusted me. He trusted me with his
secret and his family and his line. I think that
was the first time that I was like, yeah, he
really likes me.
Speaker 1 (18:57):
Leo let Bernie into his inner circle, but he made
it clear privacy and discretion was critical.
Speaker 2 (19:07):
The first few months after that, it was amazing. He
really genuinely wanted to see me happy and to take
care of me.
Speaker 1 (19:20):
Bernie and Leo were spending more and more time with
each other.
Speaker 2 (19:23):
He pretty much moved in. I think that was about
a month and a half in. I gave McKey and
I literally just said, you know, use it whenever you want.
Speaker 1 (19:33):
Leo never missed a moment to make Bernie feel loved.
Speaker 2 (19:36):
If I was on a late shift, I would finish
ten eleven o'clock at night, and then he would be
there with dinner with flowers. At that minute in time,
I had felt the happiest, settled and loved. Then I
would probably say bar my mom than I had ever
(19:57):
felt in my life.
Speaker 1 (19:59):
Even though Leo came from a wealthy background, he worked
hard and had a career he was passionate about.
Speaker 2 (20:07):
He knew about watches, he was a horologist, he had
been to Switzerland, studied at the best places. He absolutely
knew everything. He had space to do a little studio.
He was taking all of these rolexes apart and in
front of me, putting them back together, and then he
was like, I'm licensed by Rolex to do that.
Speaker 1 (20:27):
It was a very competitive certification. But luxury watches were
Leo's life.
Speaker 2 (20:33):
He always had Rolex Flip on his arm.
Speaker 1 (20:37):
Within a few months, they were spending almost every night together.
They were exclusive. Bernie was starting to think that Leo
could be the one. There was only one big concern,
and that was Leo's health. It was there from the beginning,
but Bernie was seeing his symptoms worsen. Leo wasn't just coughing,
(20:59):
he was now throwing up.
Speaker 2 (21:03):
He went silent for I want to say two days. Now.
By that point, please realize that two days, when I
am now fully into this, fully into the emotion, is
like two weeks.
Speaker 1 (21:20):
During those two days, Bernie was desperate to hear from Leo.
While he waited, his mind began to spin.
Speaker 2 (21:27):
What have I done? Have I said something? I went
back through WhatsApps and this is only two days of
no conversation. I went through WhatsApps to find out what
I've said that he could possibly take offense with anyway.
He eventually came back and basically apologized for not being
in contact with me over the two days.
Speaker 1 (21:47):
Leo had a good reason for being out of touch.
He'd been in the hospital.
Speaker 2 (21:52):
He was like, I can't say anything over the phone,
but I just need to get out of London my
family going into a panic, and try to keep this maintained,
you know, make sure that it doesn't go to any press.
He was like, can I just come to yourselves? Like absolutely.
At that point, he told me that he was suffering
from brain cancer and they've given him a year to live,
(22:17):
and obviously he had a lot of process and that
he needed to do.
Speaker 1 (22:23):
Bernie was devastated. He wanted to be there for Leo
any way he could.
Speaker 2 (22:28):
I'm just going to sit here and be quiet. You
talk to me, you vent me, you get your frustrations out,
anything that is in your mind. I was like, you
literally throw them at me. This is what I'm here
to do. And he did, and he got upset, he
got angry, he was crying, and then he got to
the US conversation and he said, I can't really see
(22:50):
you anymore.
Speaker 1 (22:51):
Leo didn't want to be a burden.
Speaker 2 (22:54):
He was like, look, I can't promise you anything. If
this is how my life is going to end, there's
bits may not be pretty, and I was like, look,
I really don't care. I was like, if I have
to be a complete secret, even if we have to
break up, just I want to be your friend. It
wasn't about any of the sex or the relationship for me.
It was this person that was in front of me.
Speaker 1 (23:16):
To Bernie's surprise, Leo even brought up as well.
Speaker 2 (23:20):
He was like, obviously he can't change that because if
he put my name in there, they all questions will
come up with who. And I was like, I really
do not care. I was like, I literally do not
care about any of that. I was like, if you
get to that point, I will be here as much
as you need me to.
Speaker 1 (23:40):
Leo couldn't come out to his family, so in order
for Bernie to stay in his life, he suggested Bernie
pretend to be his assistant or driver. It was the
kind of arrangement Bernie wouldn't have agreed to under normal circumstances,
but he was willing to do anything to make sure
he could care for Leo.
Speaker 2 (23:56):
So he agreed, and I meant it one hundred percent,
not a second guess in my mind.
Speaker 1 (24:04):
So Bernie immediately focused on helping Leo make sense of
his diagnosis.
Speaker 2 (24:09):
I went online. I researched the hell out of it
down to all different methods, and I mean I did
go crazy with it, to be honest. I was there
for at least an entire twenty four hours googling research
and what this meant experimental drugs, and like, I just
went to town with everything that I could find out.
Speaker 1 (24:31):
But Leo had already accepted that he didn't have much
time left.
Speaker 2 (24:36):
He was talking about that he might not actually go
for chemo because he just wants to just end it
on his terms in Switzerland. That was a conversation that
we had. And then that's when we went onto a
conversation about I think I need to start living my
life while I've got it, and I was like, right, okay,
so let's do that.
Speaker 1 (24:53):
For Leo, living his life to the fullest meant finally
launching his own watch restoration business that would be his legacy.
He had a collection of incredible luxury watches and he
couldn't take them with him.
Speaker 2 (25:08):
One day he said to me, I've got all of
these watches. I might just start selling them because I
kind of like swap in a buying trade on this site.
And He's like, I kind of want to build something,
so instantly I kicked in. I was like, I can
build you a website. Let's register this company, and I did.
We had quite a few business meetings on how the
logo is going to look, what it's called, setting up
(25:30):
all of the social media for it, and I sat
on my little photoshop and I'd done the logo and
the company was called The Vintage Crown.
Speaker 1 (25:40):
Leo wanted Bernie to list all of his watches and
post them online, so he brought his entire collection to
Bernie's house.
Speaker 2 (25:48):
We came up and he literally had about two three
trunks of watches. I mean, I've got all the pictures
on my phone. Still, there was countless Rolelexes. There was
the tet Feliks, there was Van Kleef and Urpools. They
were stunning. There must have been i'd say close to
(26:08):
one hundred one hundred watches in my lounge on this table.
And there was this very very old Rolex. The gloss,
the watch face was quite rounded.
Speaker 1 (26:19):
Bernie picked up the watch. It was heavy and ornate.
Speaker 2 (26:24):
It was like, this is probably the most expensive watch
that I own, and I was like, well, how much
is it worth? It was like you check it out.
So it's like, go on the Rolex website, turn the
watch over. I typed in the cerial number and it
came in at one point two million. At that point,
I probably had aboute hundred pound in my bank account,
so I'm like one point two million. It was just
(26:47):
insane to think of the money that was sat right
in front of me.
Speaker 1 (27:12):
Leo had a staggering collection of luxury watches, and as
Bernie helped Leo launch his new watch business, Bernie got
a taste of that world. Like when Bernie came with
him to run errands at high end London department.
Speaker 2 (27:25):
Stores and whenever we walked into Harold's, they knew of him.
They addressed him by his name, talking about previous purchases
that he had made, and full conversations.
Speaker 1 (27:37):
He even asked Bernie to go to Selfridges, another luxury
department store in London for an exclusive event.
Speaker 2 (27:45):
It's a private party of VIP, but it would be
quite nice if you can come with me just to
experience a bit of that lifestyle. And I was like, oh,
like absolutely yeah, I'll come out. So we got dressed,
made away into central London, walk into Selfridges and it
was red carpet, all of that.
Speaker 1 (28:04):
This event was a big deal, and Leo was a
big deal. There. Everyone greeted him by name and immediately
people were vying for his attention.
Speaker 2 (28:15):
So he went into this private VIP area through the door.
Speaker 1 (28:20):
Leo was there to look at a specific.
Speaker 2 (28:22):
Watch, and then he sent me a message and was like, Okay,
we've kind of done with the finance side, do you
want to come in? So I was absolutely so I
went in and it was a private room with a
head of European sales. The room was gorgeous. We had
or dirves that were laid out and the watches were
laid out in front of me. These ridiculous, I mean
the price of a house, these watches in front of us,
(28:44):
and it was just this woman, Leo and me.
Speaker 1 (28:51):
Leo bought two watches that day as gifts for family members.
With Bernie's help, Leo's watch business got off the ground,
and as a thank you, he would let Bernie borrow
some of the pieces.
Speaker 2 (29:03):
If we'd go for dinner, he'd give me a Rolex
or a a tech Philippin. He then called one day
and he said, this Rolex has come my way for
me to recondition and to sell. It's just a Sa Mariner.
I've got quite a few of them anyway. But he
was like, I thought of you.
Speaker 1 (29:20):
Leo was making him an offer.
Speaker 2 (29:23):
He was like, look, you buy it off of me
for twenty thousand. I will recondition it, I'll make it
look as good as new, i will polish it, I
will have it back up. And it's usually worth about
thirty to forty thousand.
Speaker 1 (29:38):
Twenty grand up front. It would be a huge investment
for Bernie. And then Leo would resell it at a
profit of at least ten thousand pounds.
Speaker 2 (29:48):
Of course, it would be amazing. That extra ten ground
for me at this minute in time would open up doors.
I've never had just a ten thousand pounds sum in
my account.
Speaker 1 (29:58):
But Bernie didn't have twenty thousand pounds just lying around.
Speaker 2 (30:02):
And I was all right. I was like at the
first I just don't have anywhere near that money whatsoever. Literally,
I think for my entire life it's been paycheck to paycheck.
I'm just very clever with it. Nowhere do I have
that kind of money.
Speaker 1 (30:16):
Leo had an idea, what about Bernie's clothing business. It
wasn't as successful as the watch sales.
Speaker 2 (30:24):
So he said, well the clothes was like, you know,
it's taking too much of your time. Is it really
doing anything? And I was like, it's getting a bit tiring,
And so I said, look, why don't you just sell
sell all of the clothes just in bulk. Somebody will
buy it it, sell the website off, like, sell the business,
get this watch, and then use that lump sum for
(30:44):
how whatever you want to do your next project.
Speaker 1 (30:48):
Bernie had a few ideas for new businesses he wanted
to start. The investment in the watch represented a new chapter,
so he started crunching the numbers.
Speaker 2 (30:58):
I was like, look, I can take this money out
of all of my credit cards. But if I do
that with my bills, my wage in retail will it
won't even cover half of all them repayments in one
go by maxing out them cars. So he said, look,
once I've got the money, it will take about a
week for the watch to get here. So I will
(31:20):
recondition it, I'll get it sent to you. You'll sell
it before you next get paid if I get it.
But I'd never do anything to hurt you. This is
for your benefit. Look, if it's too much then you
know what, let's just not do it. Let's just just
forget about it completely. And by that point I was like,
I'd already kind of imagined if I sell all of
this stuff and I take from these credit cards, by
(31:42):
the end of it, I could have ten to twenty
thousand pounds, which is just mine to do with. So
I was like, right, okay, I trust him one hundred percent,
let's just do this. Bernie was in So I sold
the website off and then I think that only got
about half of it, maybe a little bit more. And
then I did have a few credit cards, so I
(32:03):
got rid of the final bits of the clothes, took
out from every credit card that I had, maxed it out,
and gave it him.
Speaker 1 (32:15):
Bernie got fifteen thousand pounds from maxed out credit cards.
For the rest of the money, he took out an
incredibly high interest loan.
Speaker 2 (32:24):
These payday loans, the interest rate is seventy nine percent
per month, and that's more than what you've borrowed.
Speaker 1 (32:32):
Bernie was putting everything on the line. He sent Leo
the twenty thousand, and Leo ordered the watch.
Speaker 2 (32:39):
It'd been delivered to his Hyde Park address.
Speaker 1 (32:43):
But it was the week of Christmas and Leo wasn't home.
He was at the castle.
Speaker 2 (32:49):
He has responsibilities around the UK, so he was up
there doing official business and he will get.
Speaker 1 (32:54):
To it with the holidays. It could be a week
before Leo got to the watch. That meant weeks before
they could resell it.
Speaker 2 (33:02):
That's when I started panicking because at that point there
is absolutely no way that I am going to be
able to cover that next payment. And I told him
that I am getting nervous because I know the tsunami
that's coming if this isn't paid.
Speaker 1 (33:19):
But Leo was calm. He handled deals like this all
the time.
Speaker 2 (33:24):
He just kept reassuring me, saying, look, there's a little
bit of a delay. I've got a buyer. I've got
somebody that's interested. As soon as I can get my
hands down to this watch. It will take me one
day to recondition it because it's in very good quality,
and I will literally have a buyer for you within
twenty four hours.
Speaker 1 (33:45):
After that, Leo seemed to change. The loving calls and
texts started dwindling.
Speaker 2 (33:52):
The communication with me and him went very sparse. The
morning messages, which by this point had constantly continued If
I had even to the point if he was staying
at mine and I woke up at four in the
morning to go to work, when he woke up, I
would still get that morning message.
Speaker 1 (34:10):
And now those techs stopped coming. Their connection started to
feel less like a romantic relationship and more like a
business partnership.
Speaker 2 (34:19):
It went from loving and just amazing conversations to all
about the watch.
Speaker 1 (34:30):
For Bernie, this cold shoulder really hurt. Obviously he was
concerned about the watch, but that wasn't what he really
cared about.
Speaker 2 (34:42):
I am fully in depth, I am fully in love
with him.
Speaker 1 (34:48):
In seven months, Leo had become the center point of
his life.
Speaker 2 (34:52):
He was my world at that point, and there was
nothing else that I was concentrated on. I had stopped
talking to my friend, even my best friend. I'd stopped
talking to my family, and all of a sudden, this
person is completely disregarding me. I was panicking then. I
was then going back to that state. What have I done?
(35:13):
What have I said? I know it's Christmas. I don't
want to contact him too much because I know that
he's working and he's probably with people with his family.
But at the same time, I'm panicking because I'm not
getting that response. Then comes Christmas Eve and he kind
of goes silent a little bit, and then I get
Christmas Eve. I get a few messages, very cold, and
(35:38):
it was like I'm with people, I can't talk. I
was like, okay, I just wanted to wish you a
merry Christmas.
Speaker 1 (35:45):
It was important for Leo to spend time with his
family because he had so little time left. Maybe the
reality of his diagnosis was finally hitting him. Bernie understood
why Leo might be pulling away, but it still starts.
Speaker 2 (36:00):
Next morning, I did actually get quite a nice message.
It's just like Merry Christmas, handsome and blah blah blah
blah blah. I instantly my mood I was uplifted. I
was like, oh, it's okay. What's your plans for today?
It was I went straight into that puppy mode like
(36:22):
he could do no wrong. And he said, I'm with
my family all day. I won't be able to contact
you for the next two days. I was like, Okay,
that's absolutely fine. I get it. It's Christmas, you are
supposed to spend that with your family.
Speaker 1 (36:34):
Bernie spent that Christmas alone waiting for a message from Leo.
But that day Bernie noticed something strange.
Speaker 2 (36:44):
It seemed like.
Speaker 1 (36:45):
Leo was actually spending Christmas Day with another man, someone
Bernie had never seen before.
Speaker 2 (36:54):
There was a picture on his WhatsApp update. It was him,
but there was somebody else in the background. There was
this guy just walking towards the camera, looking directly in
the camera as if he was going to say something,
and it was the inside of a church, and it
just bugged me.
Speaker 1 (37:13):
For a few days, Bernie stared at the photo, practically
memorizing every detail.
Speaker 2 (37:18):
Anyway, So on the twenty seventh, heet messaged. I was like, sorry,
I've not been I've been with family, this and the other.
I was like, okay, how was your Christmas to check
up to so much? And he was like, no, we
just really stayed around the castle and then we didn't
really do anything. I was like, oh, what about the church?
I was like, what church? And then it was just
like I was like, oh, I just saw your update
on your WhatsApp and it was a picture of a church.
(37:41):
I was like, I don't know what you're talking about.
You didn't see anything.
Speaker 1 (37:44):
But Bernie had looked at the photo over and over
he knew what he saw and I.
Speaker 2 (37:50):
Was like, no, it was I didn't do an update.
That was no update. And then he got into such
denial he was adamant and quite nasty with it that
I completely made it up. I did not see it.
There was nothing on his profile.
Speaker 1 (38:08):
It was the first time Leo had acted like this.
He was defensive and angry over something so small. He
knew it meant Leo might be hiding something. So Bernie
pulled back a bit.
Speaker 2 (38:21):
I kind of slowed down message in him. I don't
get a call again quite late at night, and it's
like I've just had a massive argument with my family.
Speaker 1 (38:30):
On the other end of the phone, Leo was hysterical.
Speaker 2 (38:34):
And he's like, Bernie, I can't take this. I can't
take this life anymore, the stress that I've been under.
I just don't like my family. I don't want to
do this anymore. Can you come and get me? So
of course I've then said yes instantly. Where are you?
Calm down, stay on the phone with me.
Speaker 1 (38:52):
Leo sent an address. It was a five hour drive
from London, so Bernie got in the car and stayed
on the phone with Leo while he drove through the
night to meet him. At two am, he picked up
Leo and brought them to a hotel.
Speaker 2 (39:07):
We stayed the night. We had a long conversation about
his stress levels and he's sorry that he's been distant
and he doesn't how to cope with this as well
as his diagnosis. And at the end of this he'll
get the watch. He's going to go down, he'll get it,
and if he hasn't got it by this point, he
will give me the money and then sell it on himself.
And I just felt seeing and he was in tears.
(39:30):
He went asleep and I was stroking his hair. It
was as if this guy was broken, broken with life.
Speaker 1 (39:39):
There in the hotel room, Bernie finally fell close to
Leo again. Leo needed him, and Bernie would do anything
to make him happy. The next morning, Leo seemed renewed,
back to his old self. He confessed to Bernie that
he had been hiding something. Now he was finally ready
(40:02):
to talk about it.
Speaker 2 (40:03):
It's like, so, I've got a serious question that I
need to ask you, and I've been thinking about this
with everything that's been going on, and I was like, okay,
and it was like I've had enough of this entire
life that I have to do and I'm done with it.
I want to move away. And he was like, I
(40:23):
want to move somewhere in Scotland. Would you come with me?
And I was like sorry, I was like what. I
was like, I've seen this house. I've been thinking about
this for a long time and I was going to
go on my own. And that's why I've been distant
because I didn't know what I was going to do.
But I want you to come with me.
Speaker 1 (40:43):
Leo was dead serious. He was ready to put in
an offer on a house.
Speaker 2 (40:48):
I was like, I've already contacted the estate agent. This
house was a full on castle in the Scottish Islands.
When you think the quintessence English castle. It was exactly that.
Speaker 1 (41:04):
They looked at the listening together and started imagining a
new life there. They wouldn't have to hide from Leo's
family or the press. Bernie could take care of Leo
as his cancer progressed, and whatever came next, they could
face it together.
Speaker 2 (41:20):
It's like, I just wanted to be me and you
and I was like yes. And it's difficult now to
really kind of explain exactly how it felt, because his
world at certain points starts to crumble and he has
(41:41):
to get what he can do and run to create
another life for himself. But in the end it was
all a lie.
Speaker 1 (41:55):
On the next episode of Betrayal Weekly, I emailed Arundel Cars,
which is the official residence of the Duke of Norfolk.
Speaker 2 (42:04):
There was absolutely no record of Leo Howard, Leo Bosehoward
or absolutely anything. So then I started doing my own research.
This person, this Leo Howard, there was absolutely no trace.
Speaker 1 (42:25):
Before we end the episode, I have some exciting news.
Betrayal will be doing our first ever live show as
part of the Virgin Voyage's True Crime Cruise. We'll be
answering listener questions and discussing them live on stage with
Stacey and Tyler from Betrayal season three, as well as
Caroline from season four. So if you have a question
(42:46):
for us, please email us at betrayalpod at gmail dot
com with the subject line listener question and if you
want to join us on the Caribbean cruise, there are
still spots available search Virgin Voyages dot com true Crime.
If you would like to reach out to the Betrayal
team or want to tell us your Betrayal story, email
(43:09):
us at Betrayalpod at gmail dot com. That's Betrayal Pod
at gmail dot com, or follow us on Instagram at
Betrayal Pod. You can also connect with me on Instagram
at It's Andrea Gunning. To access our newsletter, view additional content,
and connect with the Betrayal community, join our substack at
(43:29):
Betrayal dot substack dot com. We're grateful for your support.
One way to show support is by subscribing to our
show on Apple Podcasts and don't forget to rate and
review Betrayal five star reviews go a long way. A
big thank you to all of our listeners. Betrayal is
a production of Glass Podcasts, a division of Glass Entertainment
Group and partnership with iHeart Podcasts. The show is executive
(43:52):
produced by Nancy Glass and Jennifer Fason, hosted and produced
by me Andrea Gunning, written and produced by Olivia Hu
and Monique Leboard, also produced by Ben Fetterman. Associate producers
are Caitlin Golden and Kristin Melcuri. Casting support from Curry Richmond.
Our iHeart team is Ali Perry and Jessica Krincheck. Audio
(44:14):
editing and mixing by Matt del Vechio. Additional audio editing
by Tanner Robbins, betrayal's theme composed by Oliver Bains. Music
library provided by mob Music and for more podcasts from iHeart,
visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get
your podcasts
Host
Andrea Gunning
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