CES 2026: Part Two (Tuesday)

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Also media, you are bearing witness to a great becoming.
We're back.

Speaker 2 (00:07):
It's better offline.

Speaker 1 (00:21):
That's right. It's our second day of coverage of the
Consumer Electronics Show here in beautiful, scenic, rustic Las Vegas,
and we're here for two two hour long episodes today,
this being the first, of course, and I am, of
course your host ed Zeitron and the King of Pigs,
the Dale Cooper of podcasting. We've got an open barb,
we've got tacos and places to relax with journalists and
good lord, have we all seen some cramp. Our first

(00:41):
contestants are the remarkable Edward On Guaser of the Tech
Bubble newsletter ed Hello, And of course we've got ed Niedermayer,
the author, and of course he's the co host of
the autono Cast. Howdy, And we've got Gay Davis. It
could happen here. Yeah, how are you doing?

Speaker 3 (00:54):
The only non ed present.

Speaker 1 (00:56):
Yeah, We've got three ads and one gear and I
think that that the mathematics works there. I was at
the convention center today. I power walk through two holes
in the space of a morning. I pray for death,
but I'm going to start with the fact that I
think smart glasses are evil. I tried several ones of them,
and there was one where I put them on and
it's meant to be you meant to look at your

(01:17):
photos in there, you meant to listen to music and
all this, and it was blur. I just go, yeah,
it's really blurring, and go goes yeah and just looks
at me. I'm like, you know, He's like yeah, you know.
I'm like, how much is it twelve hundred dollars. I'm like,
oh great. He's like yeah, but that's with discounts, And
it's just like, who the fuck. I know that there's
the whole thing about assistive technologies that's cool nor but

(01:37):
it's like, who the fuck is this actually for? I'm
just kind of lost.

Speaker 4 (01:41):
I had a similar feeling. There is a lot of
times I would come across assistive tact that I'd be like,
this is interesting, and then I get introduced to the
rest of the ecosystem, which itself is dubious, or there
are other there are other additions or features that don't
really seem to need to be grafted on. I mean,

(02:02):
I think similarly with smart glasses, you know, I feel
like the only ones I saw that I was interested
in were some that allowed you to hear better and
functioned as like a hearing aid, but then almost yeah,
it's like, you know, okay, if you if you really
don't want to wear a hearing aid, you know, if
you're really self conscious about that, even though we have
invisible on ones. But I saw these eating there's an

(02:24):
app and the and an ecosystem you have to get
locked into.

Speaker 1 (02:27):
The worst ones I saw and I hate to chit
talk specific company. When they were is the even G
two a's and what the word you put them on
and they had like a look like the pit boy.
It was like green and black. Yeah, and I had
this ring yet to put a ring on and control them,
and the ring didn't work, like you had to like
violently smack your smack your finger like you you can't

(02:48):
see this, you're listening to a podcast. But I'm just
like smashing my aura ring with my thumb and it
wasn't working. And I turned to them went yeah, it's
not really working. They just went, yeah, you know, it's
just it rocks about technology. We're just like a mate,
you know, it just fucking so, I don't know, mate,
what to tell you.

Speaker 5 (03:05):
But like technology is not cutting edge unless it's janky, right,
I mean that's kind of part of the deal. Like,
like cutting edge has become this term that we think
of as just like good, but really the definition of
it is that it's like not fully developed.

Speaker 1 (03:18):
Yeah, and it's it used to be. Maybe I'm just
I'm having some nostalgia here. Maybe it's not true, but
it felt like about ten years ago CS you'd see
something here and then when it came out, it'd be complete.
Now it's just they release everything in alpha. Yeah, we're
living in the world that that Elon must create. I
mean wasctive, but I was literally gonna say, you're an
Elon musk head, a big a big Elons Elon stan Yeah,

(03:41):
and yeah he really has in the ear of just bullshit.

Speaker 5 (03:45):
Yeah, Like like I mean, if we live in a
world where you can promise, you know, specifically, like your
car will be able to do level five attime, this
is like a very specifically you know, defined thing and
you can get away with We're saying end of the
year ten years in a row, which is where we're
at now, it'll be it'll actually be the tenere anniversary
in the fall. That's nice, Like these are things people

(04:06):
people see these things happen and they're like, well, why
not me?

Speaker 1 (04:10):
Yeah, why should I fucking bother? So, Ed, you've been
on the floor. What you see today? What kind of
what kind of cramp? I mean?

Speaker 4 (04:16):
I saw a lot of stuff that was uh categorized
around let's say age tech. You know. So the so
the goal here is you have AI companion bots or
chatbots that you speak to. You have smart homes and
surveillance systems that constantly log your information and give people

(04:38):
away from you, Yeah, insight into your home. You're generating
as much data as possible to feed into something that
can analyze it.

Speaker 1 (04:46):
I saw this tech I still like a Boston Dynamics
looking ass dog right boat thing, and it was by
this very I think you should leave style thing of
like a guy you'd fallen out of a hospital bed.
I'm gonna pull this up just so you can see this.
So if you like, this guy has fallen out of
his bed and the dog is just looking at him,
and it says, de cloak brain, He's just just lying
on the floor. Now, I get that there's probably a

(05:08):
reason like this, but are you saying that every hospital
is just gonna be stalked by Boston Dynamics stocks going, yes,
he's dead, he's fallen out of it. Is that cheaper
than a person? I am? So?

Speaker 5 (05:20):
Is this is this being aimed at hospitals or is
that like costs?

Speaker 1 (05:23):
It was not clear because there were tons of other
use cases as well that were very vague, like old person,
a neighborhood. Watch, what's that dog gonna do to me?
I'll kick it so hard it flies, Yeah, well I'll
send it to hell. Yeah.

Speaker 5 (05:36):
I mean, like the whole thing of selling robots to
consumers is really interesting because you know, all of the
successful robots that that exist really are are not consumer facing.
They exist in factories, these very like controlled environments. They
do the same task over and over and over again.

Speaker 1 (05:50):
We know how to make straight forward right, yeah.

Speaker 5 (05:53):
Exactly, And like a human home is not, you know,
a constraint. I mean it's constrained, right, but like a
lot of random stuff happens, they're relative to say a factory,
and like a rumba is something that you can kind
of work if all your floors are perfectly flat and
you don't have transitions, and you know, but even that,
like that's a successful product class relatively speaking, and it's

(06:14):
really the only one in in consumer facing robots and
actually a robot went went under, So.

Speaker 4 (06:20):
Right, why do you think why is there this constant
term to reinvented or to reh you know, rediscover this
path that ends and that goes down to dead end.

Speaker 5 (06:29):
So well, so I think what the reason the reason
that that robots are being sold to consumers is because
they know that consumers don't understand them. I think, you know,
you mentioned all this age tech like selling sophisticated data
driven technology to old people. Why do you do that? Yes,
there there are some needs there, but also you know,
wealthy people will will buy it without really thinking too

(06:50):
too hard about it.

Speaker 4 (06:51):
Yeah, when I talked with them, they were you know,
with a lot of these firms, they're like, well, actually
it's supposed to only be sold to like nursing homes
and larger business U. But yeah, sometimes people buy them
individually because they're really concerned about their family members. So
I think, so, yeah, that's similar dynamic where it's like,
you know, if you know it, and also if you
want to take advantage of you probably just can't buy

(07:12):
one for your you know, for your home. For your grandparent.

Speaker 1 (07:15):
Okay, did you see any robots, any anything robotic tap?

Speaker 6 (07:18):
I walked past the robot that you showed. But I've
not really been looking for products and show floor but
mostly been going back and forth to panels and keynotes.

Speaker 1 (07:26):
What'd you say? Tell me about some panels?

Speaker 6 (07:28):
I went to the like the ct A is a
super technology association.

Speaker 1 (07:33):
Sure, I'm a professional. And I also don't know.

Speaker 3 (07:36):
I know, I know who runs this convention.

Speaker 4 (07:38):
I went.

Speaker 3 (07:38):
I went to their keynote this morning, and they.

Speaker 6 (07:40):
Brought on like a few like CEOs from other other
other companies, like they had They had Navidia guy on
at the end.

Speaker 1 (07:47):
What he's anything interesting or is it just like a
lot of woods Low? No, he was.

Speaker 6 (07:51):
He was talking with the CEO of I'm going to
say Siemens. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I And they were talking
about like digital, uh, the use of digital trends and
manufacturing for like like these large these large like the
complex simulations.

Speaker 4 (08:10):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (08:11):
So they talked a bit.

Speaker 6 (08:13):
They were also talking a lot about the movement towards
quantum how this is this is, this is the next thing,
because we're kind of getting tired with the AI stuff, right,
So quantum is where they're going to be moving to,
like the new hype thing. I'm guessing next CES we're
going to see a lot more quantum stuff. But they
have this CEES Foundry event space to set up specifically

(08:34):
about merging AI and quantum and then that opens on Wednesday,
so we're gonna have to check that out. But no,
they they did mention smart glasses during the ye One
of the few one of the few products that the
actual like the CEES like guy like Gary I think
is the name who like actually mentioned was a persona
smart glasses for tutoring. And like I've tried on smart

(08:56):
glasses at this show before, I haven't tried not this
year yet. Like the auto translation ones were always kind
of interesting.

Speaker 1 (09:03):
Those ones always seem like useful, but it's like you
never really fucking see them in real life.

Speaker 6 (09:07):
They're very limited. You don't see them in real life.
They're usually the resolution is pretty low. These things are
gonna get better over time. But there was another CEO
that they they brought on and I apologize I can't
remember his name, but it was during the first keynote
Tuesday morning, and talking a lot about how wearable tech
is gonna make a big is gonna make a big
comeback because all of these wearables are now smart enabled

(09:29):
and you're gonna have the AI in your ring, in
your glasses, in everything you're you're wearing your watch, these
you're gonna start learning more about your life and those
AIS are gonna learn about how the real world actually works,
which allows them to be smarter and more useful and
help us out in a whole bunch of new ways.
And so they were talking about how, like you know,
fit bit first was the cees like you know, a
thing years ago, and wearables since then, you know, some success,

(09:53):
but have kind of kind of become has kind of
been more gimmicky. And they're talking about how wearables are
gonna become like a major, major, a major thing now
with with that's with the smart enabled stuff, right, But yeah,
and it's the other thing that both both Gary, the
the CTA guy and the and the Semens guy reiterated
on a lot was like electricity defined the last last generation,

(10:18):
that fucking AI will illuminate the next.

Speaker 3 (10:21):
And this was this was I've heard this a lot
this morning.

Speaker 1 (10:24):
So electricity defined the lost generations.

Speaker 6 (10:26):
Like like like the lastic century, like the last hundred years,
like innovation was was was because of technic electricity. This
was this was like the thing, right, the next thing
is is AI And the coolest thing happened during during
this the Semens opening keynote where he was like, you know,
one hundred and twenty or however many years ago, there

(10:47):
was no electricity and then all the lights in the
convention center like turned off like for for the for
the show. Everything went black, including they didn't think about this,
including the telepropters.

Speaker 3 (11:00):
So it was this like real, like big dramatic. It
was this big dramatic moment.

Speaker 6 (11:04):
And like and then he like paused for like thirty
seconds because he didn't know what to say next, and
someone ran on stage with a binder of his script
so he could read the paper as he introduced how
electricity like entered the world and like illuminated everything. And
then the lights came back on and it was just this,

(11:25):
It was this beautiful CES moment.

Speaker 1 (11:28):
See, I would have just if I was there with you,
I would have been like, quick, I'm gonna lie on
the ground. I need you to scream at the top
of your lungs. He's dead, he's been murdered. Who did
this locked the doors. There's a murder. That's that's really
good though, And no one thought this through. Yeah, it
wasn't even remember the fucking fifteen words he needed to.

(11:50):
He's I just and I love I love that.

Speaker 5 (11:53):
It also just proved that, right that, like electricity is
still actually quite important. It's very important. Also, the AI
is gonna keep as.

Speaker 3 (12:00):
Useful as all these AI things are. Sometimes you need
a binder with paper on it.

Speaker 1 (12:05):
Also, I just can't cannot remember what you have to
say next. It's not like it's not like you was
saying anything that matted. It's just you. He went on.
Electricity defined the next generation AI will.

Speaker 3 (12:18):
This is the industrial AI revolution ed.

Speaker 4 (12:21):
Uh huh, physical AI, right, he.

Speaker 6 (12:23):
Said that that's what there is is like a mobiles.
This is one of the interesting things though. Actually I'm
seeing is beyond beyond like the you know, lofty things
about quantum We are seeing I think a movement back
towards the material in the way that AI is being
talked about here, because like the past two years, AIS
was what was much much more speculative. Now that in
some ways they kind of had this cultural dominance. You use,
you have this emphasis on like manufacturing and this is

(12:47):
something that like the CTA guys like I talked about
during their keen out, is like this for the first
for the first time in a few years, we're really
emphasizing like the manufacturing side of things and trying to
like bring this these like lofty AI things pretty down
to earth on like house is actually gonna help on
like like industrial like these.

Speaker 1 (13:02):
Cases and could they explain an, well.

Speaker 6 (13:06):
See that's the beautiful thing about c Yes, that's something
that we get to all discover together throughout this WEEKND.

Speaker 1 (13:10):
And that's just the this world model ship, the.

Speaker 6 (13:14):
Digital twins thing that that that's that's really like, that's
really what they were talking about specifically with like the
Navidia and Siemens, like a conversation between their two guys
specifically about the digital what is.

Speaker 4 (13:24):
Spurring the is spurring the interest in world models, this
idea that Okay, there are limits to LMS, even if
we are a savior are fanatics and we think it's
going to save the world, we need to find another
way to embody it without embodying. Yeah.

Speaker 5 (13:38):
Essentially, so Yan Lacun's whole thing is is like yeah,
like language is not like sufficient to create real general intelligence.
Like the whole thing is animated by the idea that
a GI is is a thing that we can achieve
and and and that basically lms have proven that like
language alone can can create a like a similar acrium
of intelligence up to a certain point, but like child

(13:59):
understand and the world around it, which is not just
made up of language.

Speaker 4 (14:03):
It's so interesting that in the response to being like, oh,
we reached all these milestones that we thought would open
up the doors, the solution isn't that we raga, we
need to radically rethink, and it's like, actually, we need to.
We just need a little bit more juice.

Speaker 1 (14:17):
Well, here's the thing. I think this world model bullshit.
In the digital I've been hearing so great thing about
running pr from in texcause you hear a lot of
terms repeatedly. I've had world models for ten years. I've
heard sorry, not world models. Digital twins. Digital twins was
like and like it was a simulation thing kind of yeah,
But then then during the metaverse time, it was just like,

(14:38):
it's a space that's the same. World models are just
they're a scam. Like I just like faith a Lee.
Everyone talks very fondly about her spatial intelligence and all that. Well,
the fuck it, Like, where's her product, where's the thing
she's done? Because World Models the reason they're pushing these
in digital twins is because it's another use for GPOs.
Was talking to an analyst.

Speaker 3 (14:58):
Oh yeah, that's that's in the video.

Speaker 1 (15:00):
Was on stage. Please God, keep buying the GPUs, please God.
And Jensen one needs another leather shiny.

Speaker 3 (15:11):
It was so shin.

Speaker 6 (15:12):
So he had the shiny and it was firm skills,
Yeah it was.

Speaker 3 (15:16):
It was the skilly one.

Speaker 5 (15:16):
It was.

Speaker 3 (15:17):
It was very hard looking.

Speaker 1 (15:19):
Yeah, it's yeah. It's just very sad as well, because
they're not saying that though, because with with other lambs,
they're like GPUs, we need more of these, we need
more power. With world models, they're just like digital twin
copy simulation. And then the Information mentioned this. Yes, they
put out a story saying that M Video's omniverse software.
Yeah I love saying it. That it was not making

(15:41):
much money and they had to shut down the cloud
because nobody wanted it and the software sucked, and it's
just like they're running, they're out of ideas, but they're
just getting up. It's like watching a pair of parents
stay together for the kids. Like, yeah, we all love
world models. Digital twins. Yeah, that's those are good, right,
we both know what this means. Yeah, we could model

(16:02):
a warehouse, couldn't we miss the same And.

Speaker 6 (16:04):
They modeled an HD HUNTI shipyard.

Speaker 5 (16:07):
Yeah. So in the auto industry end is microft.

Speaker 3 (16:10):
Every nutt and bolt.

Speaker 5 (16:11):
Yeah, but like this is not the problem is is
that is that these digital twins for manufacturing, like you
only there's only so much demand for it exactly right,
Like when you design a factory, like that's a big
effort and you take one and then you usually you know,
reproduce it, and so you're not doing that design like
a bunch, right. You want to get it right the
first time because the tooling is.

Speaker 1 (16:29):
But they say to answer actually a question, you aren't
with robots, that what their thing is. And they kind
of showed it with the Nvidia Press yesterday where it's like, oh,
you could put the robot in the digital simulation and
then you could do that, and then they stop talking.
They just stop describing because they're like, and then the
robot will be smart and able to deal with the
real world. They don't really seem to link those two

(16:50):
things together so precisely though they talked a.

Speaker 6 (16:52):
Little bit about that specifically for the manufacturing though, and
being one of the uses for the for the digital
twins stuff is that, and and even putting AI in
all the wearables, and once they have enough data both
in the digital manufacturing, the as will know how to
do it enough that we can make them run all
physical manufacturing. And you have AIS building robots, who are

(17:13):
building robots and like all all of that. That's sort
of like automation stuff, right, is kind of how they
referred to it, but it wasn't something that they like emphasized.

Speaker 4 (17:21):
Also to your point, I hadn't thought about this until
you said it, But yeah, what is actually the composition
of demand going to look like? Where it's like, yeah,
I actually just need to do it once because these
are highly like I need to know how to my
robot should operate in this specific circumstance. I need to
know what the factory looks like, and then after that
I'll just copy and past it. Why should I use
the software more than.

Speaker 1 (17:39):
But that's actually a good point, Like what happens when
you program the road? Surely once the robots done, bam,
programmed did they have.

Speaker 5 (17:46):
So that's that's the whole point with with with the
humanoid thing. The whole idea behind the humanoid thing is
that you create a physical embodiment that that has the
versatility that a human body has, and then you can
continuously evolve the software for it so that it can
eventually do anything. Really in a lot of ways, it's
it's a way to write, like you know, with LLMS,
people find the limits of what right, the hall hallucinations,

(18:09):
the unreliability, all those problems. This is a way of
sort of repackaging the dream of universal capability. But like
in this physical.

Speaker 1 (18:15):
Form, it's a dream though, it's it's a dream.

Speaker 5 (18:17):
Yeah, general general robotics is not a thing. Generalized robotics
is a big talking point right now, and like robots
are getting more generally capable.

Speaker 3 (18:26):
But like people again, you know, that's how they're talking
about it.

Speaker 6 (18:29):
It's like how do you how do you get like
AI driven innovation? Like how how can AI like find
new solutions that we wouldn't think of without the hallucination problem?
And specifically using these models are like if when when
when these models run long enough, they'll be able to
improve how these like factories are shipyards function in ways
that LMS simply like can't as adjust to language models.

Speaker 1 (18:49):
It always seems like it's just they will like it's
there because I feel like we've heard this robot just
a twin thing for a while. I feel like we've
heard about robots. Everyone's shifting to robots now. Even China
just actually was Hong Kong, Mate, is the Hong Kong
How Yeah? I know, just yeah, I'm gonna get killed
by someone. No, they just delayed a robot ipo ing

(19:12):
over there because there's a bubble growing. The ship hasn't
even launched, and they're like, yeah, mate, were already at
a bubble. We speed around this one. Motherfucker. I just
think I saw the LG robot and they wouldn't they
didn't have the demo ready, And they showed this video
of this woman being like, hey, robot, how are you doing?
Because I'm great, you should work out. It was just

(19:33):
and it was like thank you, thank you, Glaubo or
whatever it was called.

Speaker 2 (19:38):
No, No, it was funny.

Speaker 1 (19:39):
It was like it walked over with like two pound
dumbbells and it was like, yeah, you should do see
these lately. Yeah, it was close and she was like, oh,
if I didn't have you, I just laying around all day.

Speaker 6 (19:51):
Should I order more laze potato chips for you?

Speaker 1 (19:53):
You? Oh hog, you look new, sweaty hog, Get up
off your app And then it was doing the squats
with it was like a little bit more depth and
it's just I swear there is regulation against lying like that,
and LG is a public company, but it's just what
the fuck are you do? Like when is this thing
kind of come out?

Speaker 4 (20:13):
What is the plan with it? And also it's a
forward looking vision.

Speaker 1 (20:16):
It's it's what we talk about Yesterday's like who the
fuck actually needs this? If I had a robot walk
up to me in my house and go, you need
to lift some weights, I beat the ever living shit
out of it. I'm not a violent person, but if
like a machine decided to impose its will upon me
with pathetic two pound dumbbells, I'm at fives and just yeah,
it was so strange. And I tried to talk to

(20:38):
someone over there about it and they didn't really have
any answers, and they couldn't even tell me when the
demo would start. Very sad well, I.

Speaker 5 (20:45):
Mean, I don't think it's a coincidence that like the
leading sort of seller of right again, Elon Musk with optimists,
like as a South African and a racist, and like
he's selling the idea of slavery, Like like that's that's
literally the vision, right, It's that that we create these things,
the software evolves to the point where it's human. It's
essentially a mechanical human and it just does everything for

(21:05):
us and it transforms our economy and everything, and like
it's like you are just this is this is slavery.
I wonder how much of sort of the political tides
that are happening right now or are sort of are
sort of hided to this.

Speaker 1 (21:16):
I feel like, what with the AGI conversation, no one
ever wants to talk about the fact that it is
just slavery.

Speaker 3 (21:20):
It's like what if we had except they're not people?

Speaker 6 (21:23):
Yeah exactly, I mean I will, I'll be like yeah,
but like they are people though.

Speaker 1 (21:27):
Yeah no, It's like if you make a conscious being,
well yeah, but it's not conscious. But if they made
a conscious being with AI, event eventually they can't do it.
But if you ever mentioned this to a GI people
that get really upsex like it's not slavery. I'm like,
you trapped a conscious being and bent it to your will?
What do you what would you call that? And they're
like computer and but with robots, I just think that

(21:48):
they're just starting shit at the wall. They're just like
I guess because the actual robot you'd want is something
that can handle anything, which is an impossible idea. And
also I will train it to be articulate and competent
like a human. Have you met more than one person?
Because people vary in their abilities to do stuff humanoid
the humanoid form is also not particularly efficient for the

(22:08):
every task.

Speaker 5 (22:09):
No, and like creating a human I mean, like the
engineering of a human hands, which is where we get
a lot of our versatility from, is like absolutely insane.

Speaker 1 (22:17):
Well, I mean I have a coordination disability dyspraxia. And
it's like, yeah, I don't know if you're doing a
bunch of training data, which they are like, oh, that's
how we're gonna do it. Training data. Great. Are you
gonna make what's a perfect human? Are you gonna get
like eugenics level data?

Speaker 4 (22:30):
Like what the fuck?

Speaker 1 (22:31):
How do you get perfect day? Or are you going
to get very day? Or what is good data, and
no one ever asks these questions at the panels, and
no one ever gives an answer anyway, I.

Speaker 5 (22:39):
Think I think the way to think about like the
consumer market or like the attempt to develop a consumer
market for humanoid but other other robots in general is
like slop because like it the whole thing with ro
it's really hard to sell a robot to a car company.
Like I went to Toyota and I went to the
place where they test all of their robotics. There is
a few years ago now, but like they're like, yeah,

(23:01):
we buy every time a company comes out with a
new robot whatever, almost any kind, like we test the
shit out of it. Yeah. And the thing is is
that they think and I'm just like, like, how many
robusts you adopt? They're like, well, not that many, really,
I said why? And there's like, well, once you start
a car factory operating, if something breaks down, one piece
breaks down, like the whole thing just stops all of
a sudden, you're burning like millions of dollars a second,

(23:22):
and then you have to fly someone from the other
side of the word. So like robustness, to get value
out of automation, it has to be really really robust,
and you know that's why it's really hard to sell
this stuff to companies is because they don't want to
come depending on something that's just going to break down
and then they can't operate for like days. With a consumer,
you can sell them slop because if part of it
is the spectacle, the prestige. I'm an early adopter. I

(23:45):
have the new tech thing, the fact that it's jinking,
it doesn't work. This is exactly what's happening with Tesla autopilot.
It's something that looks self driving and has this pristide,
but it doesn't actually deliver the robustness and safety that
you know you need to like take a nap in
the backseat.

Speaker 6 (23:59):
This is the real, the real tension of the consumer
electronics showcase because you have half of it trying to
be directed you know, for for industries, right, a lot
of these lot of like you know, AI automation stuff
is like for manufacturing, but it's it's the other side
is the consumer electronics part where they're selling kind of
kind of janki things that don't work to a little
bit like gullible people or people who want to believe

(24:20):
in this, like Jetson's vision, and you have both these
things kind of working in tandem, and when they rub
up against each other, it creates these like these like
cognitive frictions.

Speaker 4 (24:30):
Yeah. One thing that's also been interesting this year and
last is seeing the stuff that would not be able
to snap past the sniff test for business to business
or even regulatory oversight that is sold to consumers with
almost you know, like we're getting up to the edge
of what might be a therenose in the sense that
they're saying, Okay, with digital information, we can approach the

(24:53):
limits of what's physically impossible and deliver that to you
with a little bit of analytics, with a little bit
of artificial intelligence, instead of relying on really sophisticated technology
that are biomedical tech that we just don't have.

Speaker 1 (25:04):
I just think it's funny though, because if the robots
did what they said it they did, it'd be kind
of cool. I'd love a robot butler. I think I
think we can all agree. I just want to robe
what that brings me a diet coke and be honest,
but like.

Speaker 3 (25:16):
You could have a regular butler.

Speaker 1 (25:18):
I don't want to, like, like that's the thing we
get into the AGI conversation. I just want to I
just want to wrote, But even then it's like it's
even an.

Speaker 3 (25:27):
Aristonta black butler.

Speaker 1 (25:29):
Not that. Oh no, I have actually seen black butler. Yeah, yeah,
I would love you know what, a butler that would
kill people for being people out for me, that'd be
fucking sick. Yeah, and specially didn't expect me to have
seen black butler. I think we baby, But this is
the thing as well. It's like, even though I'm like
joking and oh that'll be fun, it's like not really,
I can get I can get off my arse and
grab it that. Oh no, I've got a vacuum. It

(25:51):
will take me fucking five minutes.

Speaker 5 (25:52):
Is not that bad.

Speaker 4 (25:53):
There's something I was seeing on the floor. It felt
like a lot of use cases that people were offering
for agents were actually oh you know, it was just
like convenience via a chat thought interface. You know, we
talk to people. They'd be like, this is ai agentic cooking,
and it's like, what's the part of it? Not you,
but I know that's what I said. You know, I
was like, what's the agentic part? And they're like, oh, well,

(26:16):
like it had you know, there's a camera inside and
it can see what food you have there, and then
you have a list of recipes. I'm like, that's not
an agent, but worried. Okay, Uh, you know we have
other agents that are saying we do you know, agentic
health analysis. And it's like, what's the agent part. Well,
it's like, well, you can talk to it about different things.

Speaker 6 (26:30):
It's like, oh, that's not the I will I will
not be happy until there's an AI in my vitamics
that tells me how to make this movie, what this
mooth is gonna.

Speaker 3 (26:38):
Do to my body? Yeah, and what ingredients I need
to get from I.

Speaker 1 (26:40):
Need a robot to tell me I'm fat. I saw this.
My mind doesn't do that already.

Speaker 4 (26:45):
So one of my mortal enemies, well or recent mort enemies,
it's you know, the makers is the omnipod and what's
the omni pod?

Speaker 1 (26:51):
Uh?

Speaker 4 (26:51):
It's it's for it's a diabetes piece of a wearable
tech that you know pomp uh yeah, insulin. And they
were you know, they didn't off, they didn't say, you know,
we got AI in here. They were just there to
advertise themselves, right. But you know one reason I hate them,
But I also think of them in contrast with everyone
else is you know, my partner's diabetic, and I see

(27:15):
up close how often the device fails every single.

Speaker 1 (27:18):
Fucking day, And that feels like a thing that we
know about and should be able to solve.

Speaker 4 (27:23):
But it's also like I, as far as I can tell,
they are never going up and saying with AI, we
can make it a little bit better. It's nice, you know,
but with every single other you know, not not to
be a fucking insolent show, but you know, with almost
every single piece of biomedical tech I saw this year
so far and last year, I mean, I'm saying, well, yeah,
you know, like there are a lot of inaccuracies. There

(27:43):
are a lot of physiological limitations. There's some physical limits,
there's some chemical limits. But with artificial intelligence and with
enough data collection, we can transcend those.

Speaker 1 (27:53):
That's the thing. How much data? How much that next time,
like if you all listening to this in you're at
CS or any of you, and next time someone says
with enough data, ask them how much and ask them
to get specific because they don't have a fucking answer,
And the answer is they also don't know what day
they need, well.

Speaker 5 (28:09):
So and the amount of data that you have is
only part of it. The other part is constraining the
problem space. And we know that from the autonomous vehicle space,
right like where Tesla says, well, this is gonna work everywhere,
and we have all this data from all these cars
and so it's gonna wear and people buy it. It's a
narrative that makes intuitive sense.

Speaker 1 (28:22):
It makes sense to a person even though it's not true.

Speaker 5 (28:24):
But it really isn't. Whereas you know at Zookes, they're
now last year, I got a ride on the strip
and yeah, and now they're like all over the place,
and they do they're able to do that because they
constrain the operating space. And especially with driving where it's
like safety critical, like you have to be able to
validate that safety to like a high degree. And if
it's just operating everywhere, how do you do that? Like,
you can only do it by constraining the level of complexity,

(28:46):
by constraining the problem space, and so and so like
for all of these AI things, the question to ask
is like, right, like if someone is saying like we're
just gonna solve all the problems, you can solve it none, right,
And and for me, like The test of any AI
product is like how focused are you?

Speaker 1 (29:01):
And that's the thing. You can't really you can't solve
every problem with every the Nvidia thing yes day, the
panel whether go is like one one robot for all things.

Speaker 4 (29:09):
I mean yeah, like we were talking about with these
generalizer robots.

Speaker 1 (29:11):
And you can't generalize anything unless, of course you're listening
to the following advertisement. This will solve every single problem
you have ever faced. Don't be mad at me if
it doesn't, be mad at them. All right, we're back

(29:36):
and we've got of course, the great Edward Geislo Junior
of the Tech Bubble newsletter, Ednia Meyer of the Autono Cast, Hello,
and Geah Davis. If it could happen here, now here's
the thing. I was also seeing some terrifying AI children's products.

Speaker 3 (29:52):
Oh I love those, Yeah, I love those.

Speaker 1 (29:54):
There was one. I'm just gonna pull this up because
there was one that just all I could think of
it was kicking. You know, aim Land, you.

Speaker 3 (30:02):
Should put a AI in child into your search.

Speaker 4 (30:05):
Bar right now.

Speaker 1 (30:06):
I'm not, No, I'm not. I don't use egg for some.

Speaker 3 (30:09):
Great news stories.

Speaker 1 (30:11):
AI plus love a live AI me can listen, speak
and thing powered by advanced AI. Its senses, your voice
and presence, reacts to emotion and learns through real interaction.
Over time, sometime something begins to grow inside am Aime,
tiny feelings, gentle awareness, and thought shape by the world
it shares with you. Until Aime starts to feel alive.
Brackets lean in and listen to Aime's in a voice.

(30:32):
I could not get close enough to one of them,
but I would love it if they just sit and
they go fucking kill you, just like muttering, cereal, I
will kill them all. And I watched the demo of
this woman and they were doing they were really like
the hogs watching be like ooh, because the woman just
did this demo that was so It's like, wow, how

(30:52):
did you remember that? That happened so long ago? And
it's just again, I thought I saw that last year.
Pretty sure. We saw a lot of this stuff. And
it's just this idea of handing a child in l
M is insane as a parent. And also there was
the one we talked about yesterday, was like, it's like
saying that Taiwan isn't part of China. It gets upset.

Speaker 5 (31:14):
It's it's so fucking yeah, exactly it's like teaching your
child poisons.

Speaker 1 (31:19):
It's just and they keep saying these things like, oh,
it will grow over time.

Speaker 3 (31:23):
They won't, especially if the company is defunct.

Speaker 1 (31:27):
When they run out of money in a month, they
spend it all on.

Speaker 4 (31:30):
The booth, letting your kids just talk to themselves and
their little figurine. I'm curious about how they offer.

Speaker 1 (31:39):
I'm curious about shareholder value.

Speaker 6 (31:43):
This is the this is this is that. That's the
kind of upsetting to me though, because like in the
conversation about how AI is getting get into all these wearables,
like these people really want AI basically in every action
figure they want. They want like agentic AI in every
single toy, so that like it becomes like a normal
thing that you're not. You're not just going to get
like a bare piece of plastic.

Speaker 1 (32:03):
Ever again, they can subscribe you.

Speaker 4 (32:06):
They won't mind if my cards talk to me.

Speaker 1 (32:09):
The thing though, it's like it's device is made for
people that don't use stuff Like here's the thing I
use my ur ring. I have an Apple Watch, I've
got fucking eight sleep bed and I've got like things
that measure my sleep. I have years of sleep data
and I cannot tell you anything, just more data. No,
but it's just that's the thing.

Speaker 7 (32:34):
It's like.

Speaker 1 (32:37):
All of this time, they're like, well, when we get
all this date, we'll be able to do this. When
motherfucker I have the data now, can you not tell
me when my best sleep times are? Can you not
tell me how what I could do? Differently, Like, I'm
not sure what to do with this information? And then like,
what with the power of AI you could do something?
I'm like, what is it? Uh No, we're not there yet.

(32:57):
The apparently Aura is here showing something off and it's
like and Luna and Luna, It's just like and all
these rings, it's what could you do with them? We're
having victorious song on later and she put it where
it's like, yeah, if you use an LLLM connected to it,
you can sometimes get a useful out. Just fucking just
stop stop stop pretending.

Speaker 4 (33:15):
I asked them. I was like, what is the different
are there are few rings? I stop by, and I
was like, what is the difference between me collecting all
this data myself with a bunch of jinky things and
I'm putting it into some literally and then asking a
chap out about it, versus whatever you guys are doing.
They're like, well, well, you know, like we have other
people's data that we are look.

Speaker 6 (33:36):
Like that.

Speaker 4 (33:36):
I don't know if that's there, so you should.

Speaker 5 (33:38):
Have told me.

Speaker 1 (33:39):
But it's also like human bodies are varied things. Certain
things work for different people. I imagine that there should
be trends within workout data that could do nothing, nothing,
nothing that I would love it if they could tell
me what would be the most effective workout, what would
be the best.

Speaker 5 (33:54):
But like, but see, this is why you make products
for children, and they don't ask questions.

Speaker 4 (33:59):
Why isn't it worth?

Speaker 1 (34:00):
Yeah, they're like, what.

Speaker 5 (34:02):
Your data is not providing enough actionable insights.

Speaker 4 (34:05):
It's time your kid says that your data does not
work for the father.

Speaker 1 (34:11):
I fix it, father, the analytics father, father, my analytics. Papa, Papa,
Please can I have some have.

Speaker 4 (34:18):
Enough actionable insights before I go to bed?

Speaker 1 (34:21):
It just feels like I really think they're just trying
to work out ways to give us subscriptions to everything. Yeah,
I can't play just Pokemon regularly. I got a subscribe
to Pokemon Plus.

Speaker 4 (34:31):
I mean, oh my god, I forgot with the AI
agentic kitchen or oven. One thing they added it's not
just an oven. You can't actually get it to just
cook the food. You have to have a delivery subscription.

Speaker 1 (34:44):
You are, Oh yes, is that sov? That's one of
those During during COVID I had father, No, I really
shouldn't say, briskets off.

Speaker 4 (35:00):
Terrible s E.

Speaker 1 (35:01):
Oh yeah, I'm just going to look up this company.
Oh one hundred and fifty thousand articles. I yeah, that's
fucking good. I bet that's one thing you can't cook
it in.

Speaker 4 (35:12):
But then I also asked them, who are your delivery partners?
I said, are We're not there yet? Are you?

Speaker 1 (35:16):
Are you? Are you?

Speaker 4 (35:21):
That was so sick. I said, okay, it's.

Speaker 1 (35:25):
Just like I do wonder why there is no legal
recourse with people going to this, Like its just like
you get lied to for several days.

Speaker 4 (35:34):
Market is the legal recourse. You don't go to market
if you don't. So true, So true.

Speaker 1 (35:39):
I also think we need less electronics and things as well.
I still, I know Matt Bender likes the Lego Brick,
and I can see it's it's like, I don't need
a fucking market trip in the Lego brick. Yeah, I know,
if it needs to go, you can just do that
with your mouth.

Speaker 4 (35:51):
I don't want my extra visors to talk to me.
Part of the fun is as a kid was talking
for them. Absolutely, you know.

Speaker 3 (35:57):
We're gonna spoil the next generation of voice actors.

Speaker 1 (36:00):
It's really devastating what we're gonna turn to. Like I
I'm like wishy washy when it comes to how bad
scream Time is. But you know what, I actually think
it is bad making every single toy and some individualized
autonomous a even though that's complete bullshit, some LLM driven bullshit,
and like they make the noises for you because it's
like one of the joys of being a job was

(36:21):
like having an imagination, and it's like, I don't know what,
like they want to take that way so they can
put subscription into it. But it gets back to the
thing we're saying yesterday as well, where it's like these
are just products made by people don't interact with anyone.
It's like one of my biggest problems. Fuck, my kid
keeps want to talk to me.

Speaker 5 (36:38):
I was gonna say, what better way to tell your
kid that you hate them? Giving them a chap pop?

Speaker 6 (36:43):
I mean, like this makes sense because like they're they're
selling it to people who are like upper middle class,
upper class. They don't have time to spend with their
kids like these. That's these products are targeting, is is
you know, both parents are working, they probably have some
kind of like living nanny. The kids probably relatively isolated
like that. That's what these it's really for. It's it's
it's it's it's for these like relatively wealthy parents to

(37:04):
buy for their kids because they don't spend time with
their kids.

Speaker 1 (37:06):
Right Like, that's like.

Speaker 6 (37:07):
Because people who are like working class aren't aren't buying these,
can't afford them because they're insanely expensive.

Speaker 3 (37:14):
Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 5 (37:15):
One of the most unexpected use cases for autonomous vehicles
actually now is people putting their kids in waymos No. Yeah,
and like.

Speaker 4 (37:21):
This is this is a real thing and a whole
thing for this super and left now right, Yeah, they
have advertising but now you can just send your kid
off and they're safe.

Speaker 1 (37:30):
Your kid will be safe.

Speaker 4 (37:31):
But they had to massively market safety passengers.

Speaker 6 (37:36):
Goodness, No, we need we need, we need like a
new q Andon to shut this thing. Yeah like way
far like wayfair trafficing children in way most.

Speaker 1 (37:47):
The right wing is just like that, we need to.

Speaker 5 (37:49):
They're straight to.

Speaker 3 (37:53):
They're setting these kids in waymos tomorrow ago.

Speaker 1 (37:55):
Take it to Comet pizza. Like, yeah, it's so it's
oh wait wait okay completely off ces for a seconds.
So you put your child in the autonomous vehicle, at
which point your child is alone in a car and
it drives around. Yeah, what if something goes wrong?

Speaker 5 (38:11):
That's a great, great question. This is for you know.

Speaker 3 (38:15):
Like aren't you a journalist. You should you should be
asking these questions.

Speaker 1 (38:18):
Yeah, I am among the podcast.

Speaker 5 (38:20):
I mean I think I think the magic of of
like cs and and stuff is that like technology does
make people turn their brains off. Like people are so
conditioned to believe that a machine is somehow better than them.
We're so surrounded by machine, like you know, the and
and I think this is like a perfect example, right,
like like why pay someone who is like trained to

(38:41):
take care of your child when like a robot will
be just as fine.

Speaker 1 (38:44):
Yeah, you know, I still think we need My big
socialist thing is I think we need to create like
a state funded nanny system and like for like working
families and just make it the best paid things.

Speaker 4 (38:54):
Yes, I agree adible economy because it's a good one on.

Speaker 6 (39:00):
Well, hopefully they'll do that in New York. But like
you're you see you see parts of the tech industries
Seese that kind of want but they want to fill
it with with like agentic childcare or whatever.

Speaker 4 (39:13):
Right. I mean that's also the thing with the age
dech Right. I mean it's like, okay, so look, we
have a large scale problem in our society where a
lot of people aging, they don't have support infrastructure. A
lot of ways we can handle this. How are we
gonna handle it? Well, since we don't really do technological innovation,
we're gonna do the lowest bottom denominator thing, which is,
you know, we let the private financiers drive the development

(39:36):
of what the care infrastructure is gonna be. Yeah, and
a lot of that just means bullshit so that they
can scale up to then get into some other business model. Right.
So it's just not it's just it's same with the childcare,
same with the elderly care. All of this shit sucks.
And it's also not even seen as the end point.
It's like a stepping stone so that they can get
into some real business. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (39:55):
Thing is I don't think that there's as much intention
behind it, is My thing. I don't I don't think
there's a master plan. I just think they're like, fuck,
what my biggest problem My old fucking dad keeps calling
me my kid claude, won't stop asking me for things.
My home is sometimes dirty between the eight cleaners, What
do I do?

Speaker 5 (40:16):
What?

Speaker 1 (40:16):
What a robot? What do people deal with in regular life?

Speaker 5 (40:19):
Dirt and old And by the way, I mean, Japan
has been, you know, because of their demographic situation, the
aging population, they've been and you know, technological prowess. They've
been developing robots for seniors and various kinds of you know,
aging assistants. And the reality is is that, like, despite
huge investment and huge support from the government and like
everything that they could possibly want, the results are not

(40:42):
like that impressive basically.

Speaker 1 (40:43):
Because the ultimately, you know what helped my poor grandmother
once she passed, like ten or eleven years ago, nine
four year old Granite Palse Marion, she liked being called
on the telephone people. Yeah, it's like someone's my dad
going and visiting her. Like it's like, what's gonna help
your talking to them and asking questions or if they're
curious about something, you can use Google, but you can

(41:06):
talk to them about it.

Speaker 5 (41:09):
And there's another piece too. I saw you in the
past life. I was actually a caregiver for development too
disabled people, and you know, it's one of those jobs
where like there's a lot of time where you just
sort of sit there, you know, and there's just like
nothing happening, and then there will be you know, I mean,
like I had a client who would you know, smear
pieces every once in a while, right, and then you
had then and that was when you were really you know,

(41:29):
earning earning the pay. The point I'm getting at is that,
you know, the majority of work, of the value of
the work that people do, especially in service type jobs
like that, is in what you would call an edge case, right,
you know. And and again like following the autonomous vehicle
space has been really useful for understanding this stuff where
ninety percent of driving is just like boring and just
sit there and anyone could do it. And what what

(41:51):
makes someone a good driver is how you deal with
it when shit goes sideways, right, yeah, which is very
rare and very sudden and very challenging to negotiate. It's
the same thing with a lot of consumer customer service
jobs and then other kinds of just like service caregiving
type jobs. The value is created in when when things
start to break down, and that's when automation doesn't work,

(42:13):
and and and no matter like no amount of like
large large models is going to change that because ultimately,
like as soon as you see something out of out
of distribution, right out of your training set, you know
it's it's useless. Yeah, and that again, that's where caregivers
like make earn their money.

Speaker 1 (42:29):
Right, Yeah, it's it's just deeply sad as well, because
there are very straightforward problems that people have. It's just
you can't really solve them with technology. Oh well, we
have the ede cases in customer service You want to
know what increases customer service calls? The fact that products
fucking suck Now, the products aren't very good, that they
get released in alpha or beta stages, the fact that
they require a subscription for certain features, or the support

(42:53):
documents of dog shit, or the guide to put them
together is dog shait. It's like, the actual problems are
the companies are fucking things up regularly, and they're like, well,
if we had more customs, well no, no, no, no, no,
actually that would involve paying someone. What if we just
had an AI. I guess maybe it could say it
slower occasionally, but sometimes it could even answer a question.

Speaker 5 (43:14):
SoftBank had a robot called Pepper, called Pepper that was
are you familiar with Pepper?

Speaker 1 (43:19):
No? I just love soft so and.

Speaker 5 (43:20):
You're supposed to call it Yeah, of course anything they touched,
but Pepper was this. It was a customer service robot
and it was like, you know, sort of vaguely humanoid,
but it sort of rolled around our wheels and they
use it in like shopping centers and stuff. Anyway, I
don't remember how much money SoftBank sunk into this. I
think it was a French company or something. It didn't
it did like, it did not work. I loved it

(43:42):
because everyone expects the headlines of like the robots are
taking their jobs, and like every everywhere this Pepper robot went,
it would lose its job. It was like the headline
was always like robot fired, replaced by humans because and
again it's because customer service is fundamentally about helping people, right,
like if everything is in its right place on the shelf,
you know, maybe and certainly badly like laid out in
large stores, maybe someone needs a little bit of assistance

(44:04):
finding like where the section is, where their thing is.
But for the most part, like when people have a
problem that they require customer service help with, like it's
because something has gone wrong, the shelf is not stopped
like something is bad. And and again like if it's an
abnormal set of circumstances, the robot is almost never and

(44:24):
like that's where that's where the value should be created
and the rubbles can't do it.

Speaker 6 (44:28):
I saw this good post on x the Everything app Lately,
which was.

Speaker 5 (44:35):
This could go so many directions.

Speaker 6 (44:37):
Well, good engineers are building like an AI bar and
they program every single possibility for someone ordering drinks at it,
at the bar, ordering other things at the bar, ordering
a horse that bar. They have everything everything figured out
for for for people to to go to this bar,
and then a customer walks in and they ask where

(44:57):
the bathroom is and the whole model breaks.

Speaker 1 (44:59):
Yeah, that's the thing. Though, I love the idea of
also a robot bartender. No bars are about ambiance and
available diet cokes for me, and it's like I like
how it feels, and I like there being a person there.
You have like a no conversation or some conversation. Each
bar is a different bartender. That's part of the joy
of going to a bar. I don't need a fucking
robot arm to go here.

Speaker 5 (45:20):
You go well, and then and then the other failure
mode is right. It's like did you see the Wall
Street Journal thing where they have the vending machine.

Speaker 1 (45:26):
With random Everyone's I love Johannaston. I think she did
a good job. But the whole thing is like, why
are we not just like straight up saying this is
broken dog ship? Why do we have to couch everything with?
But it might work in the.

Speaker 5 (45:42):
No, yeah, no, the idea is right, you put it,
you put a agentic yeah, Claude sort of on the.

Speaker 1 (45:47):
You know agent, it's nell.

Speaker 5 (45:51):
But but right then, like oh, this will just magically
cover all the edge cases. Well it sort of did,
but like people were able to get it too, like the.

Speaker 1 (45:57):
Buy yeah, like make everything.

Speaker 5 (46:00):
It basically just like burned all this money because people
were able to say, like, just get me this thing.

Speaker 1 (46:04):
I would have literally just stood by it all day.
I would have I would have had that thing.

Speaker 3 (46:08):
This is a physical vending machine, yes.

Speaker 4 (46:10):
With this software on. I mean I remember what one
of the part they already perfect.

Speaker 3 (46:14):
Perfect machine.

Speaker 1 (46:19):
Just go to Tokyo it's perfect go to like a guess
station some type Like.

Speaker 4 (46:24):
What was the rationale actually for.

Speaker 1 (46:27):
Yeah, what if we invented the machine that could vend
things Like it's just like what if you could service
things using like queens and cash?

Speaker 4 (46:34):
Again, you know, I would have kind of expected to
do like surveillance pricing, Like what if we were able
to make something like yeah, it would a little bit
and then figure out how much you.

Speaker 5 (46:45):
Like, it's the search for like surely there must be
some use and you know.

Speaker 6 (46:51):
I mean it's it's part of like we're trying to
like ground quote unquote AI into these like physical things
now now that it's not just hype, and then yeah,
you can see stuff like yes for like they're trying,
but it's like, yeah, come on, and.

Speaker 5 (47:02):
It's a convenient bandy to slap on something, right, you
can sort of develop a robot to do certain things
and and it's like, okay, well, as soon as we
get out of you know, out of our training set,
we'll just have an LM just sort of swoop in
and sort of magically solve it. And the reality is
is that either it can't often or or it solves
it in ways they create like other totally unexpected problems.

Speaker 1 (47:20):
Like the idea of them being like what if we
did Oh yeah, it doesn't work, just like obviously broken
doesn't work. And this is the second time Anthropics done this.
They did a store and the way they wrote it
was like I'm doing air quotes because it was like,
we had it run a store. Could it work?

Speaker 6 (47:35):
No?

Speaker 1 (47:35):
It made up meetings, it made up this, it did that,
and it was just like, yeah, guess this doesn't work.
But if it did, we'd have a vending machine.

Speaker 4 (47:42):
There are also people who like will use. They take
all the models that pay for the premium uses of
them and they let them loose on the stock market,
and they're like that, this is great, let's see who
does best eat shit.

Speaker 1 (47:55):
We already had that with night Capital in twenty twelve.

Speaker 4 (47:57):
I think it was they had.

Speaker 5 (47:58):
I mean algorithmic trainings thing. For a while, I haven't
I have not heard about the l M trading terrifying.

Speaker 1 (48:05):
I love that idea.

Speaker 4 (48:06):
It does not work.

Speaker 1 (48:09):
Well. It's it's because most stock advice online is bullshit.
In fact, almost all stock advices bullshit, because if you
actually knew what you were talking about, you wouldn't ship it.

Speaker 3 (48:18):
Would not be talking about it, would just trade.

Speaker 1 (48:21):
Yeah, it's just it's really good that they're working on
ways to to do vending machines.

Speaker 4 (48:25):
Jesus. Do you guys feel over the past two or
even three years that you're also seeing a lot of
times there's a product that actually has maybe some interesting
improvement and how it functions and and it's and and
maybe and how a consumer can use it, But they
just feel I cannot actually get people interest in this
unless I say there's AI and to graft it onto this.

(48:46):
I've been trying to understand because I feel like I
keep seeing products where it's like, I don't actually understand
what the AI here is. I talk to you, you
don't really seem to.

Speaker 1 (48:55):
Have televisions TV. That's my answer.

Speaker 3 (48:59):
Yeah, the smart TV thing.

Speaker 1 (49:01):
Every I've been walking around, it's like, oh, does it
help with the picture? No? No, No. If you ask
it what what the capital of Washington state is, it
can sometimes answer it's like great. Anything else, like could
it control the TV's funk? Oh? God, No, you can't
turn the volume up, And even if it could, it
would be like volume up, volume messed up.

Speaker 6 (49:20):
It's honestly, I think that the thing for me actually
to circle back to where we started maybe the smart glasses.

Speaker 3 (49:26):
Yeah, smart glasses were kind kind of kind.

Speaker 6 (49:29):
Of the same like three four years ago, and they're
now trying to keep selling them by by framing them
as you know, AI powered smart glasses, when the practical
functionality is almost identical and you have you had that
one like New York startup, it was like that cheating
smart glasses clearly clearly Oh yeah right, So like they're

(49:49):
trying to find these these ways to like make smart glasses,
to like find fine find ways to convince people to
tactually buy these things.

Speaker 1 (49:57):
It's just like what freak would use them?

Speaker 3 (50:00):
And that's the problem.

Speaker 6 (50:01):
And the only the only thing that's actually think got
people to buy the smart glasses is the covert recording.
That's the only thing that's actually gotten people to like
buy and wear these things is that you can secretly
record people.

Speaker 3 (50:13):
And that's that, more than the AI thing has actually
been the thing that sold these glasses.

Speaker 5 (50:18):
I wonder if there's gonna be more. I mean, like
I remember, I'm old enough to remember the glass backlash.

Speaker 3 (50:23):
How is that not New York people break them?

Speaker 1 (50:26):
Yeah, there was this amazing video of someone on the
subway and he's got just like exactly the kind of
white guy know you're going to do something you can do,
And the woman is just staring dead eyed at the
camera just kind of like come over here, see what happens.

Speaker 4 (50:42):
Doesn't got in trouble?

Speaker 1 (50:43):
They should they should get the key to the city,
Donnie Caliphate should elevate them.

Speaker 4 (50:49):
Yeah, we're looking into it.

Speaker 1 (50:50):
No, it's I just also like who is walking around?
I was saying, It's just like who's walking around being
like what the fuck is going on? What the fuck?
What is that? It's good? Who was sitting around being
like what kind of tree?

Speaker 3 (51:02):
That would be a great? That would be a great?
Tim Robinson care that is just what the fuck is
going on?

Speaker 4 (51:10):
A friend of the show case Newton once, I think,
promoted something about how it was like this AI thing
you could talk about and ask questions as you were
on a drive about like maybe you're driving over a
bridge and you're asking like, okay, like how old is
the bridge?

Speaker 1 (51:24):
What does it mean?

Speaker 4 (51:25):
And so I was like, well you also can just
like ask yourself those questions or look it up.

Speaker 6 (51:30):
Or like yeah, it's taking away the American the American
right to be driving while scrolling on your phone.

Speaker 4 (51:38):
It's not, which is also funny because they sold it
as like a safety thing. I feel like it would
be have better standing than Actually, haven't you ever just
want looked at something? How are they not going on there?

Speaker 6 (51:51):
How are they not marketing it as like a safety
thing for like for like how like like a you know,
like hands free enabled like like search while driving.

Speaker 4 (51:57):
You want to ship post while you're driving?

Speaker 5 (52:00):
It has Yeah, they have to do that.

Speaker 1 (52:01):
I just don't walk around thinking things like that. Like
I don't do walk around and be like walk maybe
if I'm like in a botanical god, right, what kind
of flowers that?

Speaker 3 (52:11):
But I mean, I I do.

Speaker 5 (52:12):
I just I just write the Wikipedia all day.

Speaker 3 (52:15):
I write I working around, you know, I I do.

Speaker 6 (52:20):
I just would either remember to look it up later
or like or take down notes to it because so
I can enjoy the thing in person when I'm there
and then if I want.

Speaker 4 (52:27):
To, Yeah, I don't want to disembodied being like if I.

Speaker 6 (52:30):
Want to learn about it, I can get like a
coffee somewhere and like look it up. And that's that's
like a separate, a separate experience.

Speaker 4 (52:34):
It's just what And it's a good one too. It's
also good, I think, like the thing I'm always surprised
by is they're always trying to paint any non AI
mediated experience as a bad, inefficient, inferior experience, and that
actually what you really want, which you don't really know
you want, is you want to have an interlocutor that
is not real.

Speaker 6 (52:54):
This reminds me of the very first product that I
I that was mentioned during the ct A keynote. And
this is something that I have not found on the
show floor yet, and I I have to.

Speaker 3 (53:05):
I have to look it up.

Speaker 4 (53:06):
I have to.

Speaker 3 (53:06):
I have to find it and talk.

Speaker 4 (53:07):
To these people.

Speaker 3 (53:09):
It is you're you're love to set.

Speaker 6 (53:11):
Yeah, it is an AI holographic wind shield display for
your car.

Speaker 1 (53:17):
Wait wait, wait, let's talk about it. So I know,
I'm actually not going to be as syne as you expect,
because this is a fairly standard thing like BMW has
that look like heads up heads up display, which is.

Speaker 6 (53:31):
It's it's it's it's a digital interface on on the windshield.

Speaker 3 (53:35):
So it kind of already got those on the windshield.

Speaker 6 (53:38):
So the whole thing, all across the whole thing, Oh
my god.

Speaker 3 (53:42):
Yeah, And so you have, you have like you have.

Speaker 6 (53:44):
Like you know weather, you have maps, you have all
all these random things. If you could you compare it
with some kind of smart glasses that you can search
and you can see results there. God, And so I
need to actually find the company. I need to find
the companies like location and they ask them about it,
and like to expect like the you know, the obvious
like safety problems of like if something goes wrong and
the screen gets blocked.

Speaker 3 (54:04):
But but yeah, it's.

Speaker 4 (54:05):
It's it's so funny.

Speaker 1 (54:06):
Is led by the car crash industry, like you.

Speaker 6 (54:09):
Said, like there is there is versions of this thing
which which kind of work. I think keeping it away
from the windshield probably a good idea. Keep keep the
display on like the dashboard, but having it directly on
like on like the borders and emerging onto the center
of the entire y and.

Speaker 1 (54:24):
Your eye level, so you take your off the road.

Speaker 6 (54:28):
And you have to look to the courner and specific
on the on the because there was like one picture
of it during the keynote, and they have information like
all across the board.

Speaker 3 (54:34):
So yeah, your eyes are gonna be darting to the.

Speaker 6 (54:36):
Other side to like the corner of the road to
read some kind of like pop up thing on the screen.

Speaker 1 (54:42):
I love being on my phone. I want to be kid.
I love the computer so much. I have so many screens,
but I don't know. When I'm driving, I quite enjoy
not having that. I enjoy I can listen to a
podcast drive back from girl friend. Listen to last podcast
on the Left the other day that was lovely and
all about Casey Anthony, horrible, truly awful stuff. Didn't get
that in England. But it's like that, and like the
time when I was just facing forward and listening and

(55:03):
spending some quality time with someone I love. Like when
I'm driving on my own, I get chruts to listen
to podcasts or listen to music.

Speaker 4 (55:09):
I don't want to bleep, I don't what's.

Speaker 1 (55:11):
The way Like I can look at the window and
I imagine I sound like fucking Dennis Larry.

Speaker 4 (55:15):
Like driving it's a beautiful road up state, and you
get and you get an intrusive thought, what year did
Genghis comment? And you ask it and you and the
screen lights up like someone threw a flash bang inside,
because every surface gets illuminated with information.

Speaker 1 (55:34):
Genghis Calm was born in nineteen eighty two twelve fifty eight.

Speaker 5 (55:38):
For ten years, though, like the auto industry has been
coming to CEOs and trying to do what I think
like all of these AI companies are trying to do,
which is ultimately either replaced like Google or really like
your phone as like the portal to the digital realm. Yes,
and there was and and like to to this day,
there's still this like battle inside these OEMs of like

(55:58):
of there's factions believe like that car should be cars
and they're actually sort of you're seeing sort of like
physical buttons come back. That pendulum is swinging back, and
I think that's because the reality is is that your
phone is still the best way to do all this stuff.

Speaker 1 (56:12):
But they're working on making that was I will say
it was exciting when it was at the Renaissance Hotel.
I saw Faraday Future. Oh they're still here. Yeah, They've
got like these weird like dad wagons. Now, so that's
a lot and story. Tell me if I'm wrong. Faraday
Future is a company that sometimes makes cars but sometimes
goes bankrupt.

Speaker 5 (56:34):
So they've managed amazing. They're one of these companies that
like no one is quite sure how they haven't gone.

Speaker 1 (56:40):
Bankrupt they did. I'm thinking of Fisco.

Speaker 5 (56:42):
Yeah, Fiskers. We've gone through two Fiskers. Yeah yeah, No,
there's a lot of different ones to one.

Speaker 4 (56:49):
They've gone bank wept and then they're like we're back.

Speaker 5 (56:51):
It was this guy started a second company sick I
think was.

Speaker 1 (56:56):
The one with all the weird Chinese money market.

Speaker 5 (56:57):
Yeah. So, well so the first one was one that
was sort of like it was like a kind of
like sexier model s sort of it, but it was
like a hybrid, so it wasn't quite like that electric.
So that was sort of you know, twenty thirty fourteen
fifteen something that went bankrupt, and then he came back
and made this car, the Fisker Ocean Boy Future though,
the fair Day Future. Okay, so it's like it's like
this Chinese I think money laundering operation. I'm really you know,

(57:20):
I'm not entirely sure. I'm not comfortable calling them an automaker.

Speaker 1 (57:24):
Well, they have costs them and they have like three screens.

Speaker 4 (57:27):
No, I remember they have a car.

Speaker 5 (57:29):
I think was it twenty seventeen that they there was
a there was a they they were one of the
in the peak sort of like post or sort of
like Tesla fueled like car car hype era. They had
like a legendarily them it was them an Eco. I
get the two of them mixed up, but there were
both of them had like legendarily like like bad but

(57:52):
like expensive and massive like spectacles.

Speaker 1 (57:54):
Here that like did not go well my kind of call.

Speaker 5 (57:56):
And then like the next year they were like they
didn't even have a booth, but they would just sort
of like brought their car and just sort of like
parked it on the curb and people would see it.
And like I think they have they're supposed to have
a factory here that I think there's like three different
places where they're spposed to have factories. We're supposed to
be one in southern California and one here, and then
I feel like they pivoted to AI at some point
there too. But I genuinely like there's only so much

(58:17):
you can pay attention to.

Speaker 3 (58:18):
So it's the it's the Hoyundai mobis Mobius.

Speaker 6 (58:22):
I guess it's more holographic windshield display, which is a
transparent display system that transforms the vehicles windshield into a
digital interface.

Speaker 1 (58:31):
I don't I want to win.

Speaker 6 (58:33):
The technology enables to display of navigation, driving data, and
digital content while maintaining cockfit openness invisibility.

Speaker 1 (58:42):
Someone's watching Porno on that immediately.

Speaker 6 (58:44):
Just my uber drive for being projected onto onto the windshield.

Speaker 1 (58:48):
Nice, I mean I already like everything we do it.

Speaker 5 (58:52):
Guys, look at the road. Have you seen the size
of screens in modern cars too?

Speaker 1 (58:55):
Like you.

Speaker 3 (58:59):
Like why you can see? Why?

Speaker 6 (59:00):
Why are they projecting a fucking movie on the on
the right side of the windsheet avatar.

Speaker 1 (59:06):
It gets where like these people don't have human experiences
because these people all get car service one hundred. You
think these people like getting in that car to drive
other than like the.

Speaker 4 (59:17):
So you think they're trying to be like, how do
we create what you want from first?

Speaker 1 (59:21):
No, it's like what do those fucking pigs who drive
around all day?

Speaker 5 (59:24):
I don't.

Speaker 1 (59:25):
I don't look at my driver, but like when he drives,
he seems to be looking at that transparency.

Speaker 6 (59:31):
He's just looking off into nothing. Yeah, he should be
maximizing his efficiency.

Speaker 1 (59:34):
What if he was maxim what if he was content max.

Speaker 3 (59:37):
Why don't we have linked in on the windshield?

Speaker 6 (59:41):
But like you know, they did like parts of this,
like like having having like the navigation map like right
above the steering wheel. Maybe not a bad idea, maybe
not a terrible idea, kindly happening having a movie having
digital content displayed on the right side of the windshield.

Speaker 5 (59:55):
Like why, well, so, I'll tell you I think that
I'm guessing. Knowing the auto industry sort of the the
thinking behind this is probably that this is like a
software addressable thing, right, so, in the same way that
Tesla took all of these controls that used to be
with knobs and buttons and dials and menus and this
and that and put it all onto basically like an iPad,
this is sort of the next generation of that, where
then you have you're no longer constrained to one's screen.

(01:00:16):
You can create like almost infinite variety. If it's sort
of a projection based system, that's projection. That's how I
so so. And again it's you know, I think you
know in the auto industry, you know, you want to
make an investment in in in hardware that you can
then maximize over a lot of time. And so you know,
software addressability is like the or software defined. Software defined
vehicle is like the buzzword, right yeah, And and the

(01:00:37):
idea is that you can do what Tesla has done,
which nobody in the industry thought was possible, which is
make the same car for ten fucking years and just
you know, throw throw the plubs some like fresh software
updates every every six months or so, high.

Speaker 6 (01:00:49):
High brightness, full color images directly onto the glass.

Speaker 1 (01:00:54):
I love this, and we have to cut this up. Well,
we're cutting this the you said minutes. The next for
us is from Glunt, the slot for hogs. What if
you hear anything else, it's for Glunt, I promise you,
But yeah, catch you in a minute. We are back

(01:01:20):
on the show. It's the Consumer Electronics Show. I am,
of course ed Zitron. I didn't identify myself from the
last ones, but you know, I think you worked. Start
by now we've got ed Niedermyer of the Autonic Cast, Hello,
and Edward on Greater so Junior of the Tech Puble newsletter.
I'm a joined by Henry Casey CNN Underscore. Henry, thank
you so much for joining us again.

Speaker 7 (01:01:39):
And thank you for having me with here.

Speaker 1 (01:01:41):
So I actually I'm going to start off by saying
I saw something I kind of liked. Maybe it's kind
of like there's a specific use case for this, like
show flows whatever. I saw a company that's doing wireless TVs,
like it's a wireless bracket. You put the TV on
it and charges that you can charge it, and they
sell their on TVs. I thought it was cool. I
thought it was fun that somebody did something new. And

(01:02:03):
maybe this is just how beaten down I am from
years of CS. I'm like, what if a TV was wireless?
I guess, and it's like, yeah, I saw that. I
talked to them for longer than I think they expected
and then just walked off. And I think they expected
I was gonna get a business cards. I didn't.

Speaker 7 (01:02:17):
So it has like a battery packing of it on
a charge. Again, you pull it somewhere else, or how
wireless is it?

Speaker 1 (01:02:22):
You have to You can put any TV on the thing,
you click it in and it powers the TV and
they o their own ones as well. I thought it
was fun. I thought it was fun, And now now
saying it out loud, I see the kind of dead
eyes of everyone looking at me. I'm like, maybe maybe
I slightly had more fun with this than anyone else.
Ever will it.

Speaker 5 (01:02:41):
Sounds like it would kill with those people who are
like obsessive about cable management.

Speaker 1 (01:02:44):
No, they did. They also may have did. They didn't
laugh when I said this, even though I thought it
was very I was like, they were like, oh, yeah,
you got the you can do one hundred and ten
inch with four TV screens and they were like yeah,
sort of like trade shows. I'm like, yeah, that's useful.
Or you could be like one of those insane gambling
guys with TVs. And the woman just stared at me,
just fucking I'd love to watch four sports games I love,

(01:03:05):
like that's part of the fun of Vegas.

Speaker 7 (01:03:07):
Or the Oultimate Mario Kark Tournament.

Speaker 1 (01:03:09):
Marricot Tournament, Land Party Brothers, Smash Brothers. I did also see. Actually,
and this is a genuinely good thing. It was a
company called aura At a Mini Led four K TV.
It was eighty five inches fifteen one five hundred ninety
nine dollars, sorry, fifteen hundred dollars, and it came with
the soundbar built into it. That's nice, Mini led big TV. Again,

(01:03:31):
we're describing the things like it's just the thing that exists,
but slightly better.

Speaker 4 (01:03:34):
It's all big as outdoor TV. Or it was one
hundred hundred I mean, I don't know it felt like
one hundred inches, but I have no idea how large
it was. But at the same time, I do think
that when I saw the marketing and outdoor TV, I
was like, I think they should be illegal for an
individual to buy it, but maybe we can let the businesses,
you know, they let them buy these outdoor TVs.

Speaker 1 (01:03:53):
I mean, if you've got you have a TV in
the garden.

Speaker 4 (01:03:56):
For the have the garden in the hot tip, the
garden of.

Speaker 1 (01:04:01):
The hospitals, you want to have to smoke outside.

Speaker 7 (01:04:04):
You don't think there would have been an outdoor television
but side Tony Sopranos Pool like, come.

Speaker 1 (01:04:08):
On, they also had them for a long time.

Speaker 4 (01:04:13):
I'm just saying, I'm coming in from New York. We're
we're looking into it, and we're gonna ban them into
mom Donnie Telephant, Okay, we're looking into outdoor television.

Speaker 1 (01:04:22):
Donnie's struggle sessions for outdoor TV. Hey, listen, we're starting
there for landlords. It's the good Ship, Henry. What have
you seen at the show? Now that now that my
two things I like to bummed.

Speaker 7 (01:04:32):
Well bounce off the wireless TV stuff. It's not exactly wireless.
You can see the one wire connection going to it.
But LG's new Wallpaper TV is their new kind of
take on what if an art TV was also an
old led TV. Art TV is for the uninitiated. Samsung's
frames you can put this is like an old ledge,
So you don't really want to have a static image

(01:04:53):
because you're gonna ruin your television that was burning. Instead,
you can have a slideshow mode of your art, but
it's it's like a nine millimeters thick and there's one
power coming out of the back corner. You can hide it.
And Samsung has been doing similar with the Frame Pro.
But the thing I'm most excited about is it an
eighty dollars ten thousand million power bank from Nimble. It

(01:05:15):
breaks in half and one half has a USB connectors
that unfolds. The other half has a USBC cable. So
my best friend when we go out, he never brings
a portable charger. I do now share the wealth, don't
have to sit next to each other. And it's like
actually solving a problem, which is like the CES question
of like is this solving a shareholder dilemma and capitalism

(01:05:38):
growth or is it doing something that like my parents
will really like because one of them will remember to
bring it and the other one will never remember.

Speaker 1 (01:05:45):
Yeah, that's the thing. Like, oh look I saw an
LG thing where it was again another wireless team. There's
a few of these things, but it was basically you
have the TV in one plug and then you could
plugle the hdmi shit into it. It was low latency,
no latency. That's cool. But again it's like every we're
describing doesn't feel like the future. Like I'm just I'm
saying these things out loud. I'm like, yay, what if
something was like uh, but that's right.

Speaker 5 (01:06:06):
That's like the bifurcation of the show is that it's
either right these like small iterations that are actually useful,
or it's these like wild behind the sky that will never.

Speaker 1 (01:06:14):
Apply, just don't work.

Speaker 5 (01:06:15):
Yeah, and you kind of have to have both for
a show.

Speaker 1 (01:06:18):
I mean, do you know what I actually you don't
have to have the vapor West stuff. It would be
nice if because I don't know, maybe we're just out
of ideas, but I don't I know that it may
seem like I'm a huge synic. I would love to
be wowed. I would love to be amazed, and I
would love to see stuff that maybe go, Wow, new
thing that I like.

Speaker 7 (01:06:38):
I'll be the positive guy again because okay, vaporware that
becomes actual product and it wasn't vape word to begin with.
We see the words concept product a lot of Yes.
I think I might have mentioned last year that Lenovo
had a laptop that would rotate it screen to try. Yeah,
that's actually going to be for sale. They announced they
showed off the finished version of it this year. That
much the price escapes me. I'm not even sure, but

(01:07:02):
that's the thing.

Speaker 1 (01:07:03):
That's the thing they I.

Speaker 7 (01:07:04):
Didn't write the article. My coworker CNN underscored he's got
a video on it. We but no, it's it's it's
like you knock on the lidden. It opened up on
its own, and if you're in the kitchen and you're
wanting to watch to read a recipe on your laptop
screen and you're moving your head around, I could see
that being useful also, content creators, Twitch people like all

(01:07:25):
the sorts of people there is like it's a weird,
you're gonna figure out who needs this, But it's something
that was seemed like vaporware one year and actually is
on sale and it's gonna come to sale the next
So it's sort of like saying, hey, I don't think
Cees is just for the next version of the humane human,
the friend pendent like stuff like that.

Speaker 1 (01:07:43):
You have you seen any friend pendants? Though I'm looking,
I'm looking for anything like that. I won't I want Oh.

Speaker 4 (01:07:51):
I think I saw, I saw. I did not get
to go to the pendant. But there's there's a pendant
on the Venetian Expo floor that I have to I
have to chat with them about. I was a little
too taken with all the biomeds.

Speaker 1 (01:08:01):
To Okay, No, I I really want to. I want
more AI. That's hostile towards you. I want Look when
Victoria was on a few months ago, where it was
just like, no, that's not true. Just gaslight me. It's like,
fuck me up, because you know what, stop pretending this
is gonna be my friend, because I know it won't be. Yeah,
I mean.

Speaker 4 (01:08:19):
I do love when they're like, hey, you know, like
we're gonna have robots in these workplaces and they're just
gonna be your buddy. Yeah, I'm not gonna be your worker,
You're not gonna be your colleague. They're gonna be your slave.
They're gonna be your buddy.

Speaker 1 (01:08:29):
So I was going through my photos as well, trying
to find something useful. But I did find a booth
where I could not work out what they did. It
was just called wow Now and the tagline was make
your inside outside, Make your inside outside.

Speaker 7 (01:08:42):
David Cronenberg.

Speaker 4 (01:08:45):
Thinks, but actually that is actually the plot of Shrouds.

Speaker 7 (01:08:49):
It's one of the best movies of the year.

Speaker 4 (01:08:51):
Yes, yes, exactly.

Speaker 1 (01:08:52):
It's a defense against fairies when you turn your clothes
inside out. That's the only way they don't get.

Speaker 4 (01:08:58):
We will talk about that after.

Speaker 1 (01:08:59):
I saw a comebody called Palm where the logo kind
of looked like you said, pawn. That was nice. Yeah,
it's I really, I really did. Look. I've been looking
for stuff. I saw a company called Zeus that was
claiming they had the only GPUH designed for high performance workloads.

Speaker 4 (01:09:12):
And it's like they got love sense again, what's love sense?
Sex toys? That's nice, but a little you know, maybe yeah, yeah,
just got some software power hat, power hat.

Speaker 1 (01:09:27):
You put the hound it's like and it gives you
power one of those floppy hats. It connects to like
a solar charger. I guess. Yeah, And dual USB A
and jew USB seaports. You know what's a bit that's
that is the only permissible one is like if you're
like long distance hiking or a fisher. But the people
buying this might maybe they'll be outdoors people like Robert Evans,

(01:09:49):
I know, does a bunch of a bunch of like
so I think he's done solo stuff where he's just
like when he goes into the woods for a few months,
like to hunt the Sasquatch. I'll ask him about that later,
but it's like that makes sense, But I just I
see this. I'm like, I want to believe man, but
probably I.

Speaker 4 (01:10:04):
Believe them when they do a solar bonnet when they
do from my people, then I know this series about this.

Speaker 7 (01:10:12):
The Solar par Real Canadian mouthy hat. He's always gonna
be the Brandon Bastard every other year, Like come on.

Speaker 1 (01:10:19):
That big ass hack could probably fit fit PlayStation five
on there.

Speaker 7 (01:10:23):
We won't get granted six anytime soon.

Speaker 1 (01:10:25):
But you know, will we get another pop banger like Happy? Well,
not like we're getting any this year. Oh Fly or
Die is a perfect album and he never made anything
better than it. Farrel Williams come on my show and
talk specifically about two thousand and five's Fly or Die
Classic album. Great album. You should all listen to it.
Email me if you've listened.

Speaker 4 (01:10:44):
We're talking about his beef with the Neptunes.

Speaker 1 (01:10:47):
No, not interested, just the album, and then he can
explain to me why he hasn't made anything good like that.

Speaker 4 (01:10:52):
Since you don't think the Lego movie soundtrack was gonna
be good.

Speaker 1 (01:10:56):
I think the Despicable meath had a pretty good soundtrack.
I'll give it. I will give him the fact that
Despicable Me despoakable me too. And to speak, three, no
banana fucking. I had not thought about nano banana all day.

Speaker 5 (01:11:11):
It's not my fault. So one of the going the
things that that makes this like absurd stuff so so
interesting and so extra absurde to me is that there
is like legitimate technological innovation going on right now. Like
one of the big announcements is not kind of arguably
the bigges announcement in the mobility space as this company
called Donut Lab, and they're they're basically beat all the
major automakers and battery companies to the punch on a

(01:11:34):
or at least they say they have to a solid
state battery and this something that means yeah, it just
means so. Uh, it just means that it's it's solid.
So it's a completely the rather than using a liquid
or gel in the in the anode. It's it's just
the whole battery is solid state.

Speaker 1 (01:11:53):
Yes, so just to be stupid, because I really don't know.
Regular batteries are full of like liquids.

Speaker 5 (01:11:58):
Yes, I know, it's a it's a an electrolt yeah,
fluid electrolyte.

Speaker 1 (01:12:02):
And and the solid state is just a break of something. Yeah,
that's cool.

Speaker 5 (01:12:06):
It is, and and it has like really specific advantages.
So like they claim four hundred water hours per kilogram,
like you know, not much denser than like modern you know, uh,
like the current state of the art. But they say
you can charge it in five minutes. I think what
they said, like.

Speaker 1 (01:12:22):
Oh that's why the liquid ones charge slow. Yeah.

Speaker 5 (01:12:24):
So and what happens too is with the liquid ones,
like they form dendrites and things, and so it's it's
not it's I know, I get I get above my
own pay grade really fast with this battery. Technology is
like really complex, but basically you can think of it
as like sort of almost like crystalline structures.

Speaker 1 (01:12:39):
Okay, so things full insight and slow them down.

Speaker 5 (01:12:41):
Yeah, and and and it creates friction and heat and
then fire the solid the solid state does not have
that issue. So it's like unaffected by temperature cool and
and you can charge it really really that's actually.

Speaker 4 (01:12:55):
Like really good. And that unlocks does that unlock new
to use cases? Then if it's like you don't have
to worry about the internal temperature, maybe you can run
it a little bit hotter than well.

Speaker 1 (01:13:03):
I mean it would it would be.

Speaker 5 (01:13:05):
It's so, I mean, I like, ideally, this is this
is the future, right, and and so like all the
major automakers are are doing this, and they all make
kind of somewhat similar claim. So like right they say, like, uh,
you fully charge in ten minutes, sixty kilometers will combined
range per minute of charging and up to see six
hundred kilometers on a single sorry for the metrics.

Speaker 1 (01:13:24):
No, No, this is great. No.

Speaker 5 (01:13:26):
So I think like it's this is something that that right,
Toyota has been working on talking about for a long time.
Hyundai's doing it, like the Chinese battery supplies as well.
I think this is like a little British consulting firm
and their first use case is a motorcycle, so it's
a little questionable show it. Yeah, so apparently the motorcycles
are going to be shipping this year so like or

(01:13:47):
like first quarter of this year.

Speaker 4 (01:13:48):
So they should have a guy just doing the six
hundred klometers around.

Speaker 5 (01:13:52):
Well, and with all this stuff anything automotive you got
evalidated over so many miles, and the idea that they're
going to be able to build this at at the
quality and then and carelessness.

Speaker 7 (01:14:02):
Yeah, but this is the city of traffic and the
frustration beating around. How you talk to any journalists doing
ces this year, you will see somebody who has been
frustrated about how long it takes an uber. Yeah, and
that is the kind of thing where hands on or
hands off demos are the thing that would really sell
it and have like even.

Speaker 1 (01:14:20):
Like an e bike would be Yeah.

Speaker 5 (01:14:22):
Yeah, I just read about it. I wasn't at their
event or anything. I haven't been in touch with them,
so they may be getting down something. But I think
that what I've read about it, like there's a little
bit of like how are these guys like kind of the.

Speaker 1 (01:14:32):
First that's my first thought, Like it's a little British consultancy,
never ever trust the British and also just is Britain
a hub for battery technology?

Speaker 5 (01:14:43):
It has been more so?

Speaker 1 (01:14:44):
Okay, yeah, so like I don't want this to be fake,
I want this to be real.

Speaker 5 (01:14:47):
No, no, like there are incredible British engineering outfits, especially
in the odd motive space. So like a lot of
Formula one engineering work takes place in the UK, right
of course, yeah and so, and that's all heavily electrified
now and becoming more so with the new twenty twenty.

Speaker 1 (01:15:03):
You were in the car section as well, right, do.

Speaker 5 (01:15:05):
You see anything just very briefly unfortunately, Yeah, I had
to go to uh I've listened to the then administrator
uh talk, which is how was that? I mean, honestly,
like for this administration, it was like sort of surprising.

Speaker 1 (01:15:19):
That's the National Highway.

Speaker 5 (01:15:21):
Traffic Safety Administration.

Speaker 1 (01:15:23):
Yeah, I remembered all those words. Yeah, but anything good
or just well.

Speaker 5 (01:15:28):
From that conversation, it was like a much higher level
of sophistication than I expected from someone who works for
Sean Duffy. Okay, yeah, this was like a pleasant, pleasant
surprise and and like clearly like, uh, you know, I
think I think the administration wants to be seen as
doing something to help autonomous vehicles. Right, The problem is
that like regulation is not actually preventing autonomous vehicle deployment,

(01:15:51):
Like that's not it's.

Speaker 1 (01:15:52):
Kind of like AI. It's like they're like, oh, we
need less regulations around AI. It's like that is we
don't have those. Yeah, oh we got one guy think
that fuck off. The problem is you don't have enough power,
and no one wants to pay for a dickhead with
the problems, cause it seems like the problem is the
edge cases, like you were mentioning, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 5 (01:16:07):
So he was talking and this is interesting. So kind
of the big challenge with avs is that, right, like
you can't just create a right, we have a driver's test, Right,
you go out and you do some basic things and
you prove that you have the sort of like general
capability and they sign off you didn't almost kill anyone,
and you can be a driver. Now that doesn't work
with this technology because all you do is train for

(01:16:27):
the test, yeah, right, and then you get vehicles to
train for the test, and then they pass the test
and they go out and they're like totally useless in
the real world. So this is actually like a non
creating regulation for a V is actually much less trivia
of a problem than people think it's.

Speaker 1 (01:16:40):
Right.

Speaker 5 (01:16:41):
People are very quick to say, oh, we'll just regulate it. Well,
when you get into the weeds of how to do it,
it's actually quite complex. And again I was shocked that
that the guy at NITZA is actually has like a
an ar secular level. Yeah, and like a kind of
a sophisticated sense of like, Okay, you need to have
a test, but you can't have it be some static thing,
and and like the fact is like you know, we
have this sort of self certification system anyway, and that

(01:17:02):
like if you're faking compliance with the safety standard that
that's sort of illegal already and stuff. So it was
like sort of encouraging. The problem is is that is
that this is also being used as like a paragraph
at the federal level because states, right, so like historically
cars are regulated by the federal government, drivers are regulated
by the state the state DMV. Well, so that's a

(01:17:26):
huge problem, right, Like the av companies absolutely do not
want the patchwork of regulation, and so they're trying to
get a test at the federal level so that they
can kind of preempt the state's right to regulate interesting systems.

Speaker 1 (01:17:41):
I guess it's regulating technology, but kind of regulating a
driver as well.

Speaker 5 (01:17:45):
These two separate things have become one, and in a
real sense it is much more of regulating a driver.

Speaker 1 (01:17:51):
Calculates something when you have the because from my understanding
with these autonomous cars, you actually have an overlord watching
is what you have a customer service rep. How does
that play into them?

Speaker 5 (01:18:01):
So, yeah, this is one of the most misunderstood and
you know, different companies do things differently. Different companies have
different levels of transparency around this, so you know, no
one description is going to be true true of everything.
But like for example, with way Mo, what they say
and I think that have like pretty good credibility on it,
is that right, Like for a vehicle to be autonomous,
and this is sort of the established like you know,

(01:18:24):
engineering view of and for a vehicle to be autonomous,
when it encounters something that it cannot deal with, it
has to perform what's called fallback autonomously. It has to
return to what's called a minimal risk condition. And this
is like not a defying thing. It just means the
safest place to sort of pull over and if you're
not doing that autonomously. It's not autonomous. And so like

(01:18:46):
Tesla's are not autonomous because when they fail, the human
has to step in and intervene. A lot of people
believe that, because there there is this link that every
av has to either a remote operator or the ability
to send new guidance to the vehicle, that that is
somehow remotely intervening to prevent a crash.

Speaker 1 (01:19:06):
That's that's physically not it's not possible. That's what's not
possible because I didn't imagine they had the joystickers.

Speaker 5 (01:19:11):
Yeah, I mean, I'm sure that folks have tried it,
and it's it just doesn't work. So so what happens
is that right system, when counter something you can't deal with,
it performs a fallback autonomously. The new guidance is just
to sort of get it through.

Speaker 1 (01:19:25):
You have to get it out of that little.

Speaker 5 (01:19:27):
And then and then it takes back over it.

Speaker 1 (01:19:28):
Okay, so changing gears, Henry, What if if you see
anything interesting laptop wise, and you mentioned a concrete keyboard,
which sounds good for hitting people.

Speaker 7 (01:19:36):
Yeah, key kron actually is doing really fun stuff with
the materials that they're keyboards, wireless keyboards are made out
of There was one that was porcelain like in one
of those concrete. I was thinking, even the most angry
redditors won't be able to move this by typing, Like
you might use it for self defense if you're that
kind of person, but like I was, but you were.
What I was just talking about that made me really

(01:19:58):
think was building some for the test. And while okay,
laptop said, yes, there is a big story sort of
happening with Dell and pricing, but did people see the
LG laundry folding robot thing?

Speaker 1 (01:20:13):
No, it I saw the robot. I didn't see it
fold anything.

Speaker 7 (01:20:16):
I didn't see it folding anything. I thought moving one
thing to another. And I was like, is this being
designed to beat the to do the test of the conventions?

Speaker 1 (01:20:24):
Yeah?

Speaker 7 (01:20:25):
And then do every sound like SU's why. I'm just like,
it's also doing at the slowest the It's the the
sloth in the Zutopia Like, I'm like, so that's the thing.
But so in laptops. One of the most interesting things
is a year ago Dell said the XPS brand was dead.
It was replacing Dell XPS fourteen with Dell Premium fourteen

(01:20:45):
and Tech journalsts everywhere were like, what are you doing?

Speaker 5 (01:20:48):
I love my XPS, people love it.

Speaker 7 (01:20:51):
And then this year they literally an exact came out
and said, I owe you an apology. You guys were right,
and then they released the dogs ps' is back. And
here's the weird thing. Though they got rid of all
the things we hated about it. The function keys are
actually physical keys. Again that had a weird capacitive touch thing. God,
but it was light up. It wasn't no let like

(01:21:12):
the touch bar on the Max. But the problem is
that I believe, let me just check me. I believe
it's they had a last second price change on it,
and I believe it's gonna be two thy fifty for
the starting price at first for the fourteen inch XPS. No,
and it's gonna in February. There will be lower price,

(01:21:35):
much lower price under two thousand dollars versions. And they
didn't say why this is. We can all assume one
of two things. What is it tariffs or memory shortage?

Speaker 1 (01:21:43):
Yeah, the RAM thing is fucking everything up. I don't
know if you've talked to anyone else at the show,
but I've been hearing from quite a few people that
this is just fucking up everything now because of AI.
That is just smart for the Samsung mentioned they're going
to raise the price of phones because of because of
fucking AI and RAM kill me.

Speaker 7 (01:22:01):
People are saying that the iPhone eighteen not coming until
next year supposedly is due to that because Apple wants
to wait for the lowest costing phone. They want to
wait to wait out this freaking memory shortage problem, because
that's the rumor at least right they're moving to a
spring year cadence for the main phone. But like it's
laptops from here on out, we're a little bit concerned

(01:22:23):
about what if there's gonna be a good amount of RAM,
or it's gonna be overpriced. Like it's yeah, I'm glad
I have my m one fourteen inch MacBook Pro and
that's gonna last me forever, perfully, But.

Speaker 1 (01:22:34):
It kind of feels like it's gonna price people out
of electronics soon because Tariff's already raised things and now
RAM is gonna raise things. Also that we can generate
sexy of wifus, I guess like it's very strange and
I don't think I've never seen anything like it in
the history of tech, Like we've seen shortages around COVID
and then post COVID, but I don't remember. Just like

(01:22:56):
the I remember the price of everything going out. The
thing's becoming hard. It's to get in general, but not
like one thing within the computing world.

Speaker 5 (01:23:02):
And to be fucking up a business that makes money
in order to build a business that doesn't.

Speaker 1 (01:23:08):
Well, this is making tons of money, sure, yeah, but
every other business. That's That's when I'm saying, like devices
broadly are going to take a hit because of the
PC sales already down.

Speaker 7 (01:23:16):
I think I did not keep track of that, thankfully.

Speaker 1 (01:23:20):
Yeah, it's just it's I just ah, I keep coming
to the show expecting the future, but it just kind
of feels dystopian, but not in like the cyberpunk way,
but just in a everything's more expensive and slowing down way. Yeah.

Speaker 7 (01:23:35):
Well, okay, this is the funniest part of all things.
I never expected to get faster. Amazon's revealed that the
fire TV interface is getting an update and it's getting faster.

Speaker 1 (01:23:44):
They're making you find a TV's Amazon store.

Speaker 7 (01:23:46):
They're just updating the OLS basically, and they've updated a
couple of things. But they showed I was watching it
today and it was loading smoothly and it looked a
little cleaner.

Speaker 1 (01:23:55):
Yeah, if you use these TVs, they off fuck it.
It's like you you hit the button, it takes like
three seconds for the post to move.

Speaker 4 (01:24:02):
For five years. That broke only because I was I
had a bunch of people in my room and one
of them rammed up into it because it was getting routed.
Then it smashed into the floor. Indestructible.

Speaker 1 (01:24:14):
Otherwise, yeah, you you what you mean is you were
wearing your freezer costume, ballowy and the tail and I may.

Speaker 4 (01:24:20):
Have been a little lit and then yeah, yeah, and.

Speaker 7 (01:24:26):
It gets worse if you just bought the Prime day
cheapest fire TV stick and who knows how low powered
that is trying to run whatever. But they said every
one they they showed it off on a demo on
a regular TV that was running their fire os, and
I was just like watching going. I've been recommending Roku
to my parents and for a lot of people for

(01:24:46):
a while. It's simple and it's easy for people just
want a grid of tiles like nobody can afford. Not
everybody can afford Apple TV. I wish they could, and
I think a lot of people think Google TV is
content overload?

Speaker 6 (01:24:57):
It is?

Speaker 7 (01:24:57):
And it's like you're just getting U Black Mirror episode two?
I think?

Speaker 1 (01:25:03):
Is that is? Is there a black mirror of time?

Speaker 4 (01:25:06):
But that? Or no?

Speaker 7 (01:25:06):
Just see all the ads? No, I remember it's the
million credits episode and not Uh, I wouldn't.

Speaker 1 (01:25:13):
Seen any of it. Sorry, Charlie, Charlie does readmore. I'm sorry, Charlie,
but yeah.

Speaker 7 (01:25:17):
No, Amazon actually is answering the critic I've been writing
in for a year. It's like, why is this so
slow and stuttery? And so I can't wait to update
the Nike shoe box of streaming six I have at
home because I've been reviewing this stuff for how many
years now? I've collected everything just to make sure I
can cross reference in back reference.

Speaker 1 (01:25:35):
Do you see anything you really like though, Anything exciting?
Anything good?

Speaker 7 (01:25:38):
Okay, I don't have the space for it in my home.
But if you're a projector nerd watching stuffy, Samsung's Freestyle
Plus that keeps auto adjusting to whatever space you put
it on. It projected against curtains and c It was
clear first of all, but it took a second you
saw it like ripple, and then it auto corrected around
to a rectangle on top of the curtain.

Speaker 1 (01:25:57):
That's actually cool.

Speaker 7 (01:25:59):
But it gets better because they had two different size
projector screens that it was on, and if you moved
it from one to the other, it recognized the black
outline of the projection screen and it really automatically like
it automatically resized.

Speaker 1 (01:26:14):
I like that.

Speaker 7 (01:26:15):
And then they did it on a three corner corner
of a wall and it resized like I would go
to Samsung's villa of its forever first look every year.
It's like they have a minor city almost if you
think Caesar's is a state, this Vegas, this is a
minor city, and like the Freestyle plus projector is the
thing that was.

Speaker 1 (01:26:32):
Like, whoa again, how much?

Speaker 7 (01:26:33):
Though I don't even if they have announced pricing because
a lot of the stuff the don announce pricing. But
the other weird thing from Samsung and I'm still trying
to get to the bottom of it. In the corner
of their experience, there was this s ninety five h
o led TV that their claiming is can be an
art TV and a regular but they had one static
image on it for the entire multiple hours I was there,

(01:26:56):
and I was like asking everybody, did you guys beat Burnin?
What is going on here? How is this happening? I
haven't gotten an answer yet. I don't know if it
was just for the show of it all, like showing
it can do it, but if they've somehow done it
and they were quietly not explaining it. I have more
questions for their PR team and that the process than
I do their technical team.

Speaker 1 (01:27:15):
Good luck on those though, because they don't look from
what I hear that piant and they're not particularly helpful
with answers the question.

Speaker 7 (01:27:21):
They're responsive to email there. They're nice group of people.

Speaker 1 (01:27:24):
Okay, maybe they've changed over the years, but.

Speaker 7 (01:27:26):
No, everybody's had trouble with different PR, a different outlet.
It's not that's it all depends on who's your history
of who.

Speaker 1 (01:27:32):
But that's the thing though, with these AUNT TVs, they're
always a lovely idea, but it's like, I don't fucking
know if I want some AUNT on my wall, I
just put up ah And even I saw one of
these e INC things as well, and to show there
was like an entire hole of e INC things that
just broke. It's just it's very artistic. Actually, it's like, yeah,

(01:27:53):
that's yeah, it's just it's like a nice idea that
you're like, okay, but again at the club last night, Yeah,
that was just too late for you. No, it's really
it's frustrating as well, because some of these ideas are like,
all right, that's a nice one. How much, Oh, just
out of the range of most people. Oh, an e
ink screen? Okay, I guess, but how much? Hundreds of dollars?

(01:28:13):
Fucking I just they should have a cheap section. They
should literally have a cheap section of this show, like
a below three hundred bucks.

Speaker 5 (01:28:20):
I looked up the projector that I think they typically
have cost around nine hundred bucks that they haven't announced.

Speaker 1 (01:28:26):
It's not particular worst I've heard for a projector. Yeah,
I mean like the Nebula X one pro, the toll
things like five grand and the X one little boxes
like and yeah, it's.

Speaker 7 (01:28:37):
Like a small tube like like it is a cute
looking I want to call it pixar esque, but like, yeah,
he is a nicely designed I was like, this is
fun to use. I just haven't I have a TV
and I don't care that it's a black rectangle something else.
I'm not the audience for the art TV. I'm not
really a projector audience. But while we were watching this

(01:28:57):
freestyle plus and doing, I was like, Okay, this is cool.
This is the article headline, this is like the actual.

Speaker 1 (01:29:03):
But also that's something you could use in an apartment
potentially because it adapts to any surface. Finally, something that
sounds useful.

Speaker 5 (01:29:11):
Yeah, well I think Also it's like a I think
a little bit of a premium thing too. I feel
like screens TVs have gotten so cheap and so big
that it's like having your TV like having it be
either like disguised as art or like hidden as a
projector like it's sort of like a I'm too good
to even have a t TVs er for like.

Speaker 1 (01:29:28):
Yeah, yeah, I did see like the most limped stories
like Amazon's used TVs have rounded corners. I'm just like
at this at this point, they just just don't. You
don't need to post about it, mate, who cares? It's
got round Corners's nice? Yeah, it's just like and also
I went and look, they look pointy. They looked, they
looked actually pointing. Not a circular TV around, Give me
a circular to Yeah, I want to round. I want

(01:29:50):
I want a re a rhomboid television.

Speaker 5 (01:29:54):
Everything has to be filmed at the Fish Islands.

Speaker 1 (01:29:56):
Yeah. I just though, if you want to do something weird, great,
send it my way. Don't pretend like it's for everyone.
If you just want to This is for perverts. The
pervert section's Pervert TV, pervert TV. I think we have that.
I think we have perverts.

Speaker 5 (01:30:13):
Television.

Speaker 1 (01:30:13):
Perfect you from YouTube.

Speaker 4 (01:30:17):
My name is ryand Upalm. I've been watching pervert TV
even the past forty years. I'm proud to induce it
to CES. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:30:24):
I was gonna make a liquid television joke, but that
could get gross real quick. Well, we're going to wrap
up this thirty minutes and semens Yeah, there we go,
semens Ai Television, pervert television, it's physical coming up next,
and ad from Pervert Television, new streaming service by perverts
for perverts. And if you're the advertiser that comes next,
I am very sorry. I'm very sorry. And if this

(01:30:45):
is one of the ones where it's my voice recorded,
that's even better. I'm not I'm not running pervert TV,
I swear. And we're back, and we're back with an

(01:31:06):
incredible group of people. Ledward on Gueizo, Junior of the
tech Bubble newsletter Edniedamyer of the Autonocast and Henry Casey
of CNN Underscored, And we've just been looking at fake
stuff for a few minutes because I wanted to talk
briefly about this thing called the pickle. Now, the pickle,
the Pickle is yet more fucking smart glass bullshit. But
what it is is it? They call it a soul computer,

(01:31:27):
and I think just I think we can start at
this point. If you call anything a soul computer, straight
to jail, straight to jel, just to fucking write down
you go. But what's great is this thing? Is this?
It is these glasses that project images across the across
the glasses, the transparent o leads, and then it has
some mystical AI in it that remembers everything. I'm just

(01:31:50):
gonna read this. For a better life in every dimension,
we need an intelligence that sees with you, remembers your life,
and learns to understand you. And you saw you soul.
It talks to you. It can teete like guitar stuff,
and it claims it has like memories of stuff you've
seen before. Now this has caused some sort of scandal online.
First of all, because it's blatantly fucking fake. And there's

(01:32:10):
Matt Doward I think has gone completely nuts about it.
It's just like this fucking fake And now the CEO
of Pickle is now arguing with him. I love that.
I just got to say, the CEO of Pickle, why
is the company called Pickle? I don't fuck it to
be extra special annoying? And Alex Heath was like, it's
completely fake, it's stupid, it's wrong. But wouldn't it be
cool if it was real?

Speaker 5 (01:32:28):
What if your soul was a pickle?

Speaker 1 (01:32:30):
What if? What if you Well, first of all, if
you make a company called Pickle with a fake device,
you probably don't have a soul.

Speaker 4 (01:32:35):
I have such a negative association with pickles because I
had a roommate who would buy so many pickles and
I touched them that they would fill up the fridge
and it broke all the shelves.

Speaker 1 (01:32:46):
Just the compound weight of pickles.

Speaker 4 (01:32:49):
Yes, they opened the door and it's like an apple
literally literally, and the and then glass also and pickle juice.

Speaker 1 (01:32:55):
What was the justification for purchasing so many of them?

Speaker 4 (01:32:57):
I like pickles, but would get so fucking how they again,
all the pickles and how do you forget? You smoke
a lot of weed, and then you go onto our basement,
very spacious basement, right, and you smoke more weed and
you just you get to the pickle dispensary, your fridge
and you see your pickles. Splend No not your mind

(01:33:18):
was like also one of their pickle.

Speaker 5 (01:33:20):
The answer is he didn't have a smart device.

Speaker 1 (01:33:22):
Remember, you don't need to buy more pickles. You have
more pickles than you can ever desire. Yeah, but this
is now a scandal because basically everyone's saying this is
fake and bullshit and the guy is just on X
the Everything app just fucking going to town with people.
It's so cool. I'm fine with that that this existing.
But he has the post is it? Is?

Speaker 5 (01:33:42):
It sort of like a people are trying to do
like a Marcus Browne with what was the device that
he sort of like the human pin human pin.

Speaker 2 (01:33:48):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:33:49):
The reason I bring this up though, is I like
that every last two CS is we've had oh no,
maybe it was twenty twenty four. We had the Rabbit
all one.

Speaker 7 (01:33:57):
That was twenty four, Yeah, twenty four Rabbit.

Speaker 4 (01:33:59):
That show is there?

Speaker 2 (01:34:00):
That one?

Speaker 1 (01:34:00):
No? It was before better Offline. I was a much
largest sad of person. So I didn't really have as
much fun as I could with it. But that was
the one where like everyone fell for it because it
was kind of real, and it's just like that company
is still rolling around in its own filth.

Speaker 7 (01:34:14):
Didn't get acquired by like HP or somebody.

Speaker 1 (01:34:18):
Oh no, that was the Human pand HP bought another
company to put it with the Palm Prex. I guess like,
like it's just really I think every year we need
a fake thing. We need we need something that's like aggressively.

Speaker 4 (01:34:32):
Just got handed a bunch of handed fake that.

Speaker 1 (01:34:36):
What's you got there there? It just look like boxes.

Speaker 4 (01:34:38):
Yeah, they're boxes that hold things that remind me now
that you said they look like the rabbit agents that
can they AI agents, but they're in cardboard cardboard boxes
that look like fridge magnets.

Speaker 1 (01:34:52):
Well you got in there because I'm quite curious to
know what's in this box. And there's an AI agent.

Speaker 5 (01:34:57):
In that looks as a visual medium.

Speaker 1 (01:35:00):
Okay, I see some paper, I see I see it.

Speaker 4 (01:35:03):
There's two boxes and I'm also one right now.

Speaker 1 (01:35:06):
This is it's like a little green box.

Speaker 4 (01:35:07):
Little green magnet. I said, what is the it's an
agentic Ai, I said, what's the agent? Party is like, oh,
you know, if you want a girlfriend? Can I see this?
Can I see this? Thank you? Ai Pie.

Speaker 1 (01:35:17):
Okay, this is just a box with a connector on it.

Speaker 7 (01:35:20):
That is the memory.

Speaker 1 (01:35:24):
This is just a battery. Man, I'm gonna be no,
it is. There's no agent in that. Well, I'm disappointed
down now. The rabbit R one was an NFT project
that I wrote like a huge piece about because they're
fucking fake and te thing, but I like that we
have we should have you. If you want to do fake,
you have to go all the way because this is
Fickle has the most glossy website. It's like the most

(01:35:46):
like sheen Field website. It looks so professional on mobile.

Speaker 5 (01:35:50):
It just keeps going, Yeah, it's an.

Speaker 1 (01:35:52):
Endless and they're just like yeah, it'll do everything now
if you fucking pig. But it's it just made me
look at it. You look at that, like, wow, this
looks very.

Speaker 4 (01:36:02):
This is another again and there's just there's something.

Speaker 1 (01:36:07):
It looks like another battery, but it's blue. It's got
a screen. Tiny. Okay, so this thing is I'm just
going to describe this to it, says X.

Speaker 4 (01:36:18):
X origin Origin.

Speaker 1 (01:36:20):
Yeah, Origin, they're calling its z origin. There's zurrigein. Okay.
I hit the button and it's like flashing blue and
it is doing nothing else.

Speaker 4 (01:36:31):
Oh, you have to you have you gotta put them together.

Speaker 1 (01:36:34):
I put them together.

Speaker 4 (01:36:35):
Okay, you put them together. And then when A P
I A I P I, when the AI pie AI
pie is connected only to the battery module, pressed the
power button briefly.

Speaker 1 (01:36:45):
Okay. I pressed the power button briefly, and after the
white light turns on, white light turns on. Okay, So
this is great for a audio medium, I realize. But
the thing is about this is it's like this is
just two It looks.

Speaker 4 (01:36:57):
Like we're playing with smart legos. Yeah, which is a thing.

Speaker 5 (01:37:03):
Hard to describe, how underwhelming it is, just like a.

Speaker 1 (01:37:07):
It's just the crap show now because but when you
read about the pickle, it's funny, especially after a day
of looking at actual smart glasses where everything is just blurry.
And the guy was like, oh, what are you seeing?
And it was I think, what were those ones? Where
is that the TCL booth? I think I saw them
because that one was it was like twelve hundred dollars
and it didn't really work very well. You had to

(01:37:29):
control it by these people don't use products, I think,
because it's like, yeah, you just like rub your finger
across the top right part of it, and it was
like a picture of Leonardo da Vinci and it's like
photos and you could take video with it. And I
had to walk away because all I could think of
the back of evers, I just want to ask him
what the fucking point of any of this is. But

(01:37:50):
I think I would have turned into Werner Herze and
make Peo put this device on my face and it
takes me away from humanity and then you steal my
money for it. But I was just decided not to
do the bit there. It's just I'm I'm really this
whole time, I've been trying to rack my brains of
why I would ever want because I like the idea
of a heads up display. I think the idea of
walking around being able to pull one up. But all

(01:38:11):
of these things seem to run into the same thing,
which is they want to be constantly on. They don't
want to they don't seem to want to be like
things you briefly look at. They want to absorb your
attention fully and it just doesn't feel like any device
does that other than the phone, and the phone doing
it doesn't seem to be for good reasons either or
with good results.

Speaker 7 (01:38:31):
Yeah, so I've been using the x real one sel. Okay,
it's the newest and it's good. It's what I like
about it is it will meet you where your posture is,
especially if you're a pasture is Like let's say I'm
in my hotel and I might want to play a
video game on my like whatever portable. The lead didn't
go s demos, But I don't want to hold this thing.

(01:38:51):
So I was just going to flight for a while,
right tired. But I put these glasses and I.

Speaker 1 (01:38:55):
Have and it's just a TV screen effectively.

Speaker 7 (01:38:57):
It puts the screen above you and you can move
it and you can just have the controller in your hands.
And sure, I feel like I'm in Wally's Origin stories
at that point. But in that case, and if I
had managed to pack it correctly on the airplane, which
I couldn't because everybody goes to see s overpacks, it's
the problem. But like no, I think x Rayal is
one of these companies and they're doing a bunch of

(01:39:18):
different partnerships. They're working with seemingly everybody possible, which you
sort of want if like you want cross compatibility, right.

Speaker 4 (01:39:25):
I wouldn't.

Speaker 1 (01:39:26):
But I went to the X Real booth and I
was I was kind of excited to go over there
because I thought these are just gonna be glasses that
little TV's in your eyes, and I'm like, way less.
There are way more offensive things on the show. And
I get there and there's just a fucking thing that
says Vibe agent. And I try and they're like, you
could book a demo. I'm like, you don't want to
see you don't want to put me in a box
with this fucking thing. Only one of us is I

(01:39:48):
don't know.

Speaker 7 (01:39:49):
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (01:39:50):
It's a Vivans Vivan's agent. It's a Vivan's agent. I
take metal Fen today and it's fine. I'm trying to
find this thing because it was so bizarre to me
that they're just putting these words to It's like vibe
description at this boy like AI agent glasses, fucking fucking
slap and.

Speaker 5 (01:40:08):
Then it's just take slop.

Speaker 1 (01:40:10):
And I saw a guy, one of the demo guys,
very overly eager fella was like yeah. I call these
my Tony Stark glasses, and I tried to use them
as like, sir, there's a line, and there was like
a twenty five person line. I'm just like, oh god,
this is just I don't lining up for anything feels
deranged here. And I always think the same thing, which
is if you had double the amounts of these, you

(01:40:31):
would be fine. Maybe they're trying to do like they're
trying to make it so that scarcity is that you're like, oh,
why is everyone lining up for this? Maybe they're just
trying to put friction between people and the products they
They just don't fucking work that well. Is there?

Speaker 5 (01:40:44):
Right?

Speaker 1 (01:40:44):
There must be AI shit in this, I said agents No.

Speaker 7 (01:40:47):
No, I wonder was there were there? Where was this?
Because were there two.

Speaker 1 (01:40:52):
Boots in the It was in the what's it called
the South Hall?

Speaker 7 (01:40:58):
I believe because I've been going, because I've been that's
affair like they are. I will say the words a
slab as many times as I feel like it, and
I don't think i've seen that much AI. If any ready.

Speaker 1 (01:41:10):
Reddit thread here saying the instant translation the Visual Assistant
Object Recognition Productivity BOO boost quickly access shots remind us
or instructions while you do something else.

Speaker 7 (01:41:21):
Yeah, it's and it's an ex real product.

Speaker 1 (01:41:23):
Here we go, Project Aura. It feels like tomorrow. Jesus
fucking Christ. It's on Android x A hands free control tomorrow.

Speaker 7 (01:41:33):
Oh yeah, I see it. Yeah, it's an unlocked early access. Yeah,
this is not something I have gotten my hands on yet.

Speaker 4 (01:41:40):
Why didn't they say it looks like tomorrow?

Speaker 1 (01:41:42):
I don't know.

Speaker 4 (01:41:44):
Wouldn't that be.

Speaker 7 (01:41:45):
Because feel is something you feel.

Speaker 4 (01:41:47):
Yeah, I see, looks could be deceiving, Yes, it might
not look like tomorrow.

Speaker 7 (01:41:52):
And then also look is the signature weasel word when
you're not really able to commit to anything yet. Yeah,
it looks like it open, it looks like it could
be a company that isn't lying to us.

Speaker 4 (01:42:02):
But then why doesn't feel that?

Speaker 1 (01:42:04):
It's just like I keep seeing this thing of like this,
they have this imaginary person who's just looking around, going
what's that? What's that? What's that? What's that? Dude? What's that?
What's that object? What's that?

Speaker 4 (01:42:15):
But then you come here and you do see that person,
but the person is on the floor.

Speaker 5 (01:42:19):
Or hordes of that that photo that post of of
just like the Horde trying to like break in at
ten A.

Speaker 4 (01:42:26):
M Oh my god, yeah did I did I send
you guys a picture like that?

Speaker 5 (01:42:30):
You posted the photo of the people like trying to
break into the show floor.

Speaker 1 (01:42:33):
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:42:35):
The same thing. I was like, is it always like this?

Speaker 1 (01:42:38):
No? I and I said out, I'm like, what are
you so excited about?

Speaker 4 (01:42:41):
I saw a crowd, the largest crowd I've seen yet
in any CS around a room a new roomba device
that wasn't a room but like a room room but
s and I was like, what the.

Speaker 1 (01:42:54):
At least that's approving party, Like you said, that is
something that works every year, and like last year. I
didn't check out the robot vacuums this year, but I
remember last year they were like, we've got little arms
that can pick stuff up. I did. That actually led
me to one of the funniest things. I'm sure that
this was for like legitimate reasons. There's a robot vacuum
company where you could pick up a cleaning struggle. It said, one,

(01:43:15):
pick your struggle to drop your coin. Three get your magna.

Speaker 4 (01:43:19):
You're a now entering the cleaning struggles.

Speaker 1 (01:43:21):
And then it just had a dust always hides under
low furniture. Hair always gets tangled in the brush. Too busy,
no time to clean, Cleaning requires too much disassembly. I
there are times when I want to know more, and
there are times when I just read something. I'm like, yeah,
that's all I need, you know.

Speaker 5 (01:43:35):
But I like, this is the issue is that you
can fully automated task, but like the robot will need
to be maintained.

Speaker 1 (01:43:40):
Yeah, like do you want to?

Speaker 5 (01:43:41):
You're sort of trading one thing for the other. And
again with like consumers, people will buy the thing because
they're like, oh, I'm lazy, I don't want to.

Speaker 1 (01:43:47):
I don't wanna you know.

Speaker 5 (01:43:48):
I totally get that, but they don't think that what
they're doing is they're trading like the occasional sweep or
vacuum of their floor for like, you know, maintaining this
complex machine.

Speaker 1 (01:43:58):
With like light ar and like I have a fucking
robo rock. If you're listening from robo Rock, your shit sucks.

Speaker 4 (01:44:05):
That's what it was. It was robo rock. It was
a big giant black and red pavilion.

Speaker 1 (01:44:10):
Yeah yeah, yeah, I have a quite expensive robo rock.
And the dust that that ship doesn't pick up, I
undo that ship with a fucking sweat the fact I
have to clean up after my robot at this point.
Just make it through little turds. Make it a game.

Speaker 4 (01:44:22):
Some an AI lawnmower.

Speaker 1 (01:44:24):
An AI lawn mower isn't that interesting. See, that's one
where I'm like, I could almost imagine the industrial applications
if you just take AI away, because robotics has been
doing AI for a while. That's fine.

Speaker 4 (01:44:35):
Another one of the things where it's like, you know,
what might be an interesting innovation that I could be
sold into A pitched the AI onto it, and then
I'm like, I don't know, yeah, I even.

Speaker 1 (01:44:46):
Though it was already out because if you already had
like ey rob doing like anything Gutta cleaners and ship
you know, yeah.

Speaker 5 (01:44:52):
I mean any anything like that, whether it's a like
the lawmowers or like pool cleaners and another classes like
actually useful robot now that they were I mean that's
that was AI before.

Speaker 1 (01:45:04):
Yes, they just didn't have to they didn't have to
say words.

Speaker 4 (01:45:08):
Yeah, So hearing aids that were just they were literally
just hearing as and they made some improvements and they
are throwing AI. But then you ask them about it
and it's like the technology that like you said, last generation,
they're already using. Yeah, you know, I grew systems to
try to improve your ability to hear things.

Speaker 1 (01:45:23):
At this sense, it's just like I'm now thinking, you
just chop the word AI off and it would be fine.
But did you see any robot vacuums? So I'm gonna
have to chase these fuckers down myself.

Speaker 7 (01:45:34):
I am not the one covering the robo vacuum on
a team. I just saw the dancing a GI robot.

Speaker 1 (01:45:40):
Yeah, okay, talk to me about this goddamn thing poop.

Speaker 7 (01:45:44):
Dance like me at my the first wedding I ever
went to when I was ten years old, and it
was unfortunately named a g I bot And I'm like, no,
this isn't Actually this is doing a pre rehearsed routine,
like why are we words have meaning, or at least
they should.

Speaker 1 (01:45:58):
So it's like, I will that thing so hard it flies.

Speaker 7 (01:46:01):
There were two of them, so they might try to
come at you from.

Speaker 1 (01:46:03):
Both, and I've been boxing for years. I'll take those
fuckers out, no problem. Me and my weapons.

Speaker 4 (01:46:09):
Yeah, robots don't have weapons.

Speaker 1 (01:46:11):
Robots don't have weapons, and they don't have friends.

Speaker 5 (01:46:13):
They don't have dance moves apparently.

Speaker 7 (01:46:15):
But the Boston Dynamics people have made people afraid, which
is the whole thing where this.

Speaker 1 (01:46:19):
That's the way most some people afraid.

Speaker 4 (01:46:21):
Well, no, that's the.

Speaker 7 (01:46:22):
Thing where most people engage with the idea of like
the robot that will do anything? Is it one social VideA?
They solve a bost Dynamics thing three years ago, right,
and then that's informed them to think, ah, shit, I
gotta be careful about everything from now on. Yeah, but
when you look at it's like, oh, it's trying to
serve a press demo.

Speaker 5 (01:46:38):
Yeah, those are all highly as well.

Speaker 1 (01:46:40):
What's it the demo for? What is the purpose of
the dancing robot?

Speaker 4 (01:46:44):
It to disarm you, I'll.

Speaker 7 (01:46:46):
Impressing you and getting your money to invest in it.

Speaker 5 (01:46:49):
So the very first chatbot was created in the in
the sixties and Eliza, Yeah, and so there's Eliza effect.
I think so much of what we see here is
driven by sort of different versions of that, which is
where you show people something doing a task that they've
only ever seen a human do before, whether I'm dancing
or mowing a lawn or whatever else. And because like

(01:47:10):
our only metaphor for intelligence is humans we automatically leap to.
This must be a human level of intelligence, right, this
is what this is what has fuel Tesla's autopilot.

Speaker 1 (01:47:20):
Does that makes sense that Yeah, it's like if we
make it seem human adjacent, they'll just fill in the gaps.

Speaker 5 (01:47:25):
That's what they've done with LMS and exactly right. And
what this does is this it locks you into this mode. Again,
We've seen ten years of this with Tesla autopilot, where
it's like it's getting better, it's getting better, it's getting better,
it's getting better, it's getting better, but like what's getting
better is the illusion? Yes, and what is completely like
left out of this entire framework for engaging with with

(01:47:47):
any kind of automation technology is the is the fact
that at some point it becomes actually useful, there's actually
real value. And with the autonomous vehicles, it's really simple.
When that point is it's when the company says we
take legal responsibility for this system.

Speaker 1 (01:48:00):
And they never will.

Speaker 5 (01:48:02):
Well, WAYMO does did.

Speaker 1 (01:48:03):
They actually take that?

Speaker 5 (01:48:04):
Of course?

Speaker 1 (01:48:05):
There's no.

Speaker 5 (01:48:06):
Yeah, there's no, there's no there's no human in them.
I mean the zukes is that are running around the strip,
and and the waymos that are all over the Bay.
There's no there's no human in them to take responsibility.

Speaker 1 (01:48:15):
It's it's oh, I suppose that's right. Yeah, I mean
what about the robotex season in Austin. They still got
people in them.

Speaker 5 (01:48:22):
Those have someone in the in the passenger seat. But no,
I mean in Texas, like those are technically considered to
be autonomous vehicles.

Speaker 1 (01:48:28):
By Texan autonomy laws.

Speaker 5 (01:48:31):
Yeah, which are essentially non existing.

Speaker 1 (01:48:32):
Nice, that's good, that's really It's.

Speaker 5 (01:48:34):
Funny when you actually pull up the Tesla Robotaxi app,
it says if your ride is in Texas is autonomous.
If you're ride is in California, it's not.

Speaker 1 (01:48:43):
And it's the same experience.

Speaker 5 (01:48:45):
I mean, it's the same thing.

Speaker 1 (01:48:46):
Yeah, very fucking Have you used Zekes Yeah, so I'd
ride with Zokes a year ago at CES, right, So
I haven't so so that was cool, But I was,
you know, it.

Speaker 5 (01:48:55):
Was with with the ct Yeah, it's like the start
of a whole thing. H And to be perfectly honest,
at the time, I was like this, it's a very
It's it's the only product that you can kind of
ride in right now that is designed from the ground
up to not just be a car.

Speaker 1 (01:49:07):
Yeah, because it's like an empty room with wheels. Yeah,
and so that's good. That's kind of cool the Docklands
light railway, and.

Speaker 5 (01:49:12):
It's perfect for the strip. And like for a long
time the AV space was like like AV companies were like,
we can't like market on the novelty of this because
it's like such a serious thing. We're going to conquer
the world. And and like one of the cool things
that's happened is that there's been so much like struggle
to get this stuff to market that now it's sort
of like, well, fuck it is. It is novelty, right,
Like this is just a cooler way to ride down

(01:49:32):
the strip to the club or to the you know,
the casino, or to this.

Speaker 1 (01:49:36):
That to the guns shop.

Speaker 5 (01:49:37):
Yeah, And like I think that's fine. I don't know,
I don't know how they're making money doing it, and
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (01:49:41):
That's actually are any of these companies making any money?

Speaker 5 (01:49:44):
No, the robot taxi companies are not yet making money.

Speaker 1 (01:49:47):
Why are they bleeding so much?

Speaker 5 (01:49:48):
Well, because it's extremely expensive. I mean each one of
these well so each one of the vehicles. So like
you know, we work with estimates, but you know, best
estimates for a WEIMA is you know, two to three hundred.

Speaker 1 (01:49:59):
Thousand dollars of vehicle, right.

Speaker 5 (01:50:01):
And then the operating costs are very high. We don't
we know very little about like how many how many
miles can they go? Right, because they're these electric vehicles
and they're powered by you know, they're powering not just
the drive but also all this light, ar and radar
and compute and all these other things. So like the utilization,
how many rides can it give.

Speaker 1 (01:50:19):
Before they must just go back and charge.

Speaker 5 (01:50:21):
Well, I mean, apparently they're they're burning somewhere on the
order of two billion dollars a year.

Speaker 1 (01:50:26):
Jesus fucking Christ. Is that that from purchasing more of them?

Speaker 5 (01:50:31):
That is, they're scaling very aggressively, and they're also they're
continuing to use most of the So they were ready
to sort of start bringing in this vehicle from China
which was using fewer sensors and so really bringing the
cost down, and then of course tariff screwed that up.
I think they've got that back on track based on
my conversations here, so you know, I think they're Look,
I think WEIMA will get to a point where where

(01:50:53):
they will you know, have a viable business. I think
they're racing. I've heard fifteen billion dollars right now to
get to.

Speaker 1 (01:50:58):
IPO running out of money. We're running out of money.
I swear to We're gonna run out liquidity.

Speaker 5 (01:51:03):
And twenty twenty six is gonna be wild, because yeah,
WEIMO is not the only company that needs to raise money.
There's huge I PO is, SpaceX.

Speaker 1 (01:51:10):
Open AI, Open AI is not going to fucking I
p O.

Speaker 5 (01:51:14):
I don't know any of them.

Speaker 1 (01:51:15):
An I think SpaceX could.

Speaker 5 (01:51:19):
I'm I'm pretty. I'm pretty. I mean we'll see, like
better than I would prove me wrong. I mean, look,
you know, I think I think SpaceX, like Tesla, has
the kernel of a real business there with the with
the Falcon nine launch program, it's the most cost effective
way to get into orbit. The basic critique that I have.
And again, like you know, make the numbers public, I go.
I hope they go public because we'll see the numbers.

Speaker 1 (01:51:40):
Actually, this is why I want to. I want Anthropic
and open Ai to go public so bad. No to
just find I mean, look, I just know, let me
look onto the hood, let me let me see how
much you're burning. Because I bet it's a lot. Well.
I mean I was talking to you about this off
off air, but there's two Chinese ai companies that go
in public, Zoogi and Mini Mac. They called forget show

(01:52:01):
someone on the man sa I'm wrong on that one,
but they I think one of them makes like thirty
five million dollars in revenue a month and spends two
hundred billions or two hundred million even sorry, Yeah, and
that you've got to spend money to lose money, I guess.
But I think that you know what, if this is
the year when we finally get some clarity over that,
I'd be really happy.

Speaker 5 (01:52:21):
Well, and I mean just in terms of elon Musk,
I mean like Xai burned what like fourteen billion thirteen billion, Yeah,
and like he's made this whole his whole thing work
for a long time by you know, he's really good
at raising money.

Speaker 1 (01:52:34):
But then also today did they Yeah that's nice. Yeah.

Speaker 5 (01:52:38):
I think the level of burn has that that Xai itself,
which has no profitable business to it, is like dramatically higher.
Tesla has always lost or not always but almost always
lost money. Yeah, but like they could mitigate that loss
and they can kind of string it along and Goo
a couple of years between raising rounds, but this is, yeah,
ten plus billion dollars year. Elon's empire is really fragile

(01:53:05):
even without that kind of cash burn. And so I
think twenty twenty.

Speaker 1 (01:53:08):
Six, Yeah, they raised twenty billion dollars. Si Vela Equity
Partners steps, Yeah, Fidelity, Fidelity Management fell through it again award,
Qatar Investment Authority, MGX, and Barren Capitol Group among other
key partners. Investors in the round include Nvidia and Cisco.

(01:53:28):
We're doing the dot We're doing the dog coom boom again, folks.
We love the dog coom boom.

Speaker 5 (01:53:33):
Okay, Well, so they gotta love raising money and then
a couple of years of burn now and.

Speaker 1 (01:53:37):
Guess what do they maybe twenty billion dollars A Data
Centers XI continues to expand its decisive compute advantage, world's
largest day I super computers at Colossus one barely built
and Colossus two not built at all, ending the year
with over a one million, h one hundred GPU equivalents. Now,
for the non technical audience, that's just a lot of
GPUs so they can generate c SAM I guess, but

(01:53:58):
my favorite part of this is rock Force series. Our
frontier language models are built on the best in class
training infrastructure powered by Colossus. They've pushed reinforcement learning training
to unprecetated levels, refining Grock's intelligence reasoning. An agency using
pre training scale compute, what do you train on? You've
been trainerating child porn?

Speaker 5 (01:54:17):
I mean no, that's the But what's the product? What's
the revenue?

Speaker 1 (01:54:23):
Oh? Sorry, they don't have that here. They don't have that.
They will say that our reach spans approximately six hundred
million monthly active users across the X and CROC apps.
Bull fucking ship.

Speaker 5 (01:54:33):
Getting skills easy when it's free.

Speaker 1 (01:54:34):
Also, Twitter doesn't fucking gap that many users like I
genuinely don't think they've they've done that.

Speaker 5 (01:54:41):
Are you suggesting that Elon must might be.

Speaker 1 (01:54:42):
Like I know ed, I know you're a big Elon
Musk fan.

Speaker 5 (01:54:45):
I mean it's hurtful. It's hurtful to have his credibility questions.

Speaker 4 (01:54:49):
Yeah, charding a path that will spread the light of
civilization on our planet. Yeah, I I wish the listener
could see everyone face is what I said?

Speaker 1 (01:55:01):
That even a drink when you said that, it's I
just feel like this is a year of reckonings. I
think that that's the thing, because sure they built twenty
billion dollars, but he needs to build fucking Colossus and
Colausus too.

Speaker 4 (01:55:14):
I mean it goes to that or we're gonna get
getting blitzed and in December being like it's all fucking fraud.

Speaker 1 (01:55:21):
But the thing is, as I've been saying, we're running
out of money. Yeah, like we're running at twenty billion dollars.

Speaker 5 (01:55:27):
He wouldn't be talking about a SpaceX IPO if he
wasn't desperately. Yeah, he's the value also, the thing that
he dangles out in the deep future. And like the
mart he said so many times, it's like a really
important part of the fanboy orthodoxy that like the mission
to Mars is so important that we cannot compromise it
by allowing, you know, shareholder value.

Speaker 4 (01:55:49):
To become an issue.

Speaker 5 (01:55:51):
Yeah, and as long as Eland is the richest guy
in the world. Like that was totally, Like that worked.
The moment he started is fascinating because the vibe has
been wrecked in the in the Tesla subreddits for like
years now for a number of reasons. The SpaceX ones
really fell this this last year, and the I p
O they were. They were crumbling already, just the number
of times Starship was exploding. Yeah, but the I p

(01:56:13):
O news was the thing that really I saw these
forums start to like actually melt down, because the whole
point of all of this is now like Elon can't
guarantee it, right, like if he turns space ex over
to shareholders, there's no guarantee that the mission happens.

Speaker 4 (01:56:28):
I mean, because it was, I wonder how they react
also because you know, didn't he said they weren't also
doing this series he fund raising round. Yeah, he said,
this isn't happening. But it's also an upside around. Now
it's you know, it's even bigger than before. So I wonder,
but it's that big.

Speaker 1 (01:56:43):
Nvidia DA sent a deal though the the SPV, but
that was going to do a special purpose vehicle. We
don't talk about that SPV ship.

Speaker 4 (01:56:50):
Talk about previous deal. You don't need to.

Speaker 2 (01:56:52):
Valor the value.

Speaker 1 (01:56:53):
The value Yeah it was No, it's the twenty billion
dollar two billion from Nvidia.

Speaker 5 (01:56:57):
Yeah, valor was the middleman or they're doing the least
back or something. But it's all private, so you don't.

Speaker 1 (01:57:02):
Know, like, yeah, but they they did it close.

Speaker 5 (01:57:05):
I I think so.

Speaker 1 (01:57:06):
Yeah, but that's the thing like this or just getting
back into my regular bullshit. There's a eight billion dollar
deal the Oracle has been talking about doing for months
that's disappeared off the thing. I just think the banks
are running out of money.

Speaker 4 (01:57:18):
It's so sick also that that deal was talked about
so loudly. It's like, this is going to be a
cornerstone of the coming overbuild for Compute. This allow us
to be able to put ourselves in the lead and
ahead of any other competitor.

Speaker 5 (01:57:31):
When I remember people from from banks saying after the
Twitter deal that like that dead debt that they weren't
able to get off the books was really starting to
impact their ability to fund like like new deals, and
it was really starting to sound like the especially with
banks that have been historically very close. I won't name
any names, but but with Elon, it sounded like the
magic was was sort of over. But it seems like they're, yeah, there's.

Speaker 1 (01:57:54):
Still it's stay a cent as bullshit like it really,
it's just the everyone's so Google for data centers these
days that they're just like, what if he builds more.
It's also so funny to close this the same week
as the fucking see Sam thing. You're like, like, I
don't know if I'm a business journalist, I have any
chance fasking anything. I'm like, hey, Fidelity, are you investing

(01:58:20):
in the data centers or the child born? Because that's
the thing. It's like, I'm not even being like, I'm
not trying to be crash. It's a fucking question. Like
Bryce Elder Legend from the Ft did a great piece
today where it's like, oh, it's like the pornography generator
connects to a social network and it was just a
list of all the staff at X but with clown makeup.

Speaker 7 (01:58:41):
On FT.

Speaker 1 (01:58:43):
Drice Elder Alphavil legends. No, it's it's very funny watching this,
and he doesn't usually do anything at CS. I wish
he never. I wish he did. I wish the big
companies would fuck this place up a little bit more,
just to make it more chaotic.

Speaker 4 (01:58:58):
Listen one year you to notice that there's gonna be
a South Africa section and you're gonna see all your
fa all the stars, Peter thel all the all the
famous South Africa Mark Andresen is not South Africa, all right,
It's it's the other motherfucker that I Oh, my god,
the other bold motherfucker always forget his name will come

(01:59:20):
to me.

Speaker 1 (01:59:20):
I'm sure. I'm sure the listeners can fill in the gaps.
Grumple Shieldtz, that's his name.

Speaker 4 (01:59:25):
I'm calling him that, but I'm gonna look him up.

Speaker 1 (01:59:27):
Now.

Speaker 4 (01:59:27):
It's gonna bother me, all right.

Speaker 1 (01:59:29):
I think we're gonna wrap it there though. Now we've
talked about Elon Musk a little bit. This has been
such a lovely episode. Thank you all for listening. Edon
Graso Junior of the Tech Bubble Newsletter, Edniamyer of the
Autono Cast, and of course Henry Casey of CNN Underscored
And as ever, please donate to the Pediatric Epilepsy Research
Consortium in honor of Sean Paul Adams, who is a

(01:59:50):
wonderful friend of the Sweet Shawan Paul's son is epileptic,
and his founder deeply appreciate it. Thanks so much for
everyone for listening. We will be back in a few hours.
Thank you for listening to Better Offline. The editor and
composer of the Better Offline theme song is Matasowski. You

(02:00:11):
can check out more of his music and audio projects
at Matasowski dot com, M A T T O S
O W s ki dot com. You can email me
at easy at better offline dot com or visit better
offline dot com to find more podcast links and of
course my newsletter. I also really recommend you go to
chat dot Where's youreed dot at to visit the discord,

(02:00:32):
and go to our slash Better Offline to check out
our reddit. Thank you so much for listening.

Speaker 8 (02:00:38):
Better Offline is a production of cool Zone Media. For
more from cool Zone Media, visit our website cool Zonemedia
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Speaker 2 (02:01:02):
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