December 10, 2025 • 32 mins
Welcome to Radio Better Offline, a tech talk radio show recorded out of iHeartRadio's studio in New York City. Ed is joined in-studio by CNN Tech Editor Lisa Eadicicco to talk about the state of consumer electronics, Samsung’s Vision Pro competitor, and why every phone kind of looks the same.
https://www.cnn.com/profiles/lisa-eadicicco
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Also media.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Enter the twisted mind of ed Zitron. This is better offline.
Speaker 3 (00:18):
That's right.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
We're here in New York City, New York State, and
we've got a great guest, Lisa Atichico from CNN. Thank
you so much for joining us, Lisa on this horrible
wet day, truly truly one of the ugliest days in
New York history. But nevertheless, we're going to talk about
consumer tech to then and everyone says, oh, Ed, you've
got to be nicey, you've got to be like things more.
But what's a gadget you've actually liked this year? Like,
(00:43):
what's what's the stuff you've been enjoying?
Speaker 4 (00:46):
Yeah, And it's it's kind of funny because I feel
like when I think about gadgets, I think about them
two ways. There's one like the gadgets I would actually
buy and that I actually use every day, and then
two the ones that are I think interesting for what
they say about the industry or that have been fun
to write about and fun to cover, and for the
things that I have enjoyed using this year.
Speaker 1 (01:07):
I would say it's a lot of the.
Speaker 4 (01:08):
Things you'd expect, like the Nintendo Switch to is a
fun one. This year, the new Apple Watch, because I'm
a big Apple Watch user, things like that, And then
there's the other category of things that I think have
been really fun to write about, and for that, I
would say the Galaxy x are definitely stands out.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
So what is the Galaxy So that's the Vision prone too, right, Yes,
So how comfortable is it? Stop there?
Speaker 4 (01:33):
I would say, I mean, none of these things are
super comfortable, to be honest. It's still this thing that's
bigger than a pair of glasses, bigger than something you're
used to wearing on your face, so it's always going
to be a little bit uncomfortable. I do think the
Galaxy XR was like very easy to adjust and get
to fit correctly for me. I feel like a lot
of these headsets usually are a little too big for
(01:55):
me or might like fall off my head.
Speaker 2 (01:57):
The Vision Crow I have a giant Bonce, giant giant
head and that thing. Try to get that thing on
was like balancing a cup of tea on.
Speaker 1 (02:05):
My head exactly. It's never it's never that comfortable. It's
kind of weird. Yeah, I do feel like it was
easy to adjust.
Speaker 4 (02:11):
It wasn't the most comfortable thing to wear, but I only,
and I only wore it for like maybe about twenty
minutes at a time, So I do feel like wearing
it for extended use cases, the kinds of things that
Samsung and Google think you'll use it for, like productivity
and entertainment. I think that's I don't know how comfortable
it would be to wear it for, like, you know,
if I'm working on a project or watching a movie
or something.
Speaker 2 (02:31):
To say, you wouldn't do like your actual work inside it, I.
Speaker 1 (02:34):
Would try it.
Speaker 4 (02:35):
I think it would just take some time to get
used to, you know, wearing that thing for like an
hour or longer.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
Because as like a vision pro truth and I think
I mentioned this in person previously, but I can't use
my vision pro right now. I can use it, but
I can't update it unless you keep it on your
head during the update, which is one of the most
insane ideas ever. But I genuinely like that. When I
was trying it, I was so tall because eighty five
(03:01):
percent of the time, I fucking hate it. I just
I really I was just like mad at it because
like it would something would like my cat would brush
my head and that it would be out of focus.
But there were these times on getting it and be like,
this is actually really cool. I'm like writing, I wrote
a whole thing on it, like it was back in
the earlier days of the show. I was like, I
really like, this's got some music in the background. And
(03:22):
then again like Babu my cat would knock me in
the head because he's very affectionate cat to do now
he's a lovely affectionate cat, massive part of the show.
And then I'd need to readjust it and then I
would start to get a headache. Did you did you
find that the software was good on the Galaxy one?
Like how was it in comparison?
Speaker 4 (03:39):
Yeah, So there's a couple of big things that stand
out to me. I think the Gemini integration is really good,
and it should be because that's the one thing that
Google and Samsung are kind of pitching as setting this
apart from the Vision Pro and previous attempts at mixed
reality and VR, but the idea that you can just
look at something and ask a question about it. Like
in my demo from October, I was looking at photos
(04:00):
and Google photos, and yes, it's cool that you can
look at them on a giant screen and everything, But
for me, what felt like the new thing that this
is bringing to the table is being able to look
at that photo and be like, oh, where in the
world those types of trees usually grow and can like
that combination of like knowing what you're looking at without
having to really specify. I do think the vision Pro
is better at certain things like media for example, right,
(04:23):
I mean some of the like spatial videos that have
been created for the vision Pro are.
Speaker 1 (04:28):
Just like breathtaking when you look at them.
Speaker 4 (04:30):
But I don't I don't know that I would buy
a vision Pro for that reason, but it is very impressive.
Speaker 2 (04:35):
It is the thing like even with both of them,
they have the same problem where it's like this is
a cool idea, like oh, I know where that tree
is now, like great, but it's like practically within my
life when am I sitting down being like when where's
that tree from? Like where is the Yeah, where's the
practical uses in With the vision Pro, it's like great,
I can put this on my head and walk around
(04:56):
with it. I can kind of see who is this for?
Speaker 1 (04:59):
Yeah, I think that's the big question.
Speaker 4 (05:01):
And I feel like that's kind of at least for
me when I try to look at Okay, what new
products have been successful and did actually start a category
and catch on with consumers, and.
Speaker 1 (05:11):
Which ones haven't.
Speaker 4 (05:12):
And the thing that I've kind of noticed is the
ones I haven't or when you really try to kind
of force a user behavior that isn't there. And sometimes
I feel like that's what's happening with these headsets, is
that the technology is very, very cool, it's very advanced,
but it always feels like it's a step towards something
more natural that we haven't gotten to yet. And you
could say that about the Oculis Drift that came out
(05:34):
more than ten years ago. In some cases, even the
headsets today. I still feel that way about.
Speaker 2 (05:38):
And the Steam. Have you seen the Steam frame? We
just add the valve.
Speaker 1 (05:43):
I haven't tried it. I've seen I don't think.
Speaker 2 (05:45):
I don't. I think I just had stay from games.
Next is on and he tried it a bit. But
it's with all these things, it's like I wish that
have waited four years. Yeah, I wish that wait because
there are those moments like you mentioned with the special video,
where it's like, holy shit, like this is actually really cool.
Like I watched like a basketball game on the Vision
promo I'm like, this is this is actually.
Speaker 1 (06:05):
Hard until you try it right.
Speaker 4 (06:07):
And that's the things I don't feel like that many
people are gonna have the opportunity to really try it
at length, to work it into their lives. But yeah,
the idea of like, oh my god, it really does
feel like I'm sitting courtside right, Yeah, that's very cool.
Speaker 2 (06:17):
And the other thing is that even if it's just
a big TV, that is cool. The problem is is
you can just sit down and watch a television. He
just turned the bloody thing on. I have. I have
this Nebular X one projector, which I fucking like. It's
like Anchor, It's so good soundpoll now, and I just
got like a nice screen I pull up and that
just even that it's like two or three minutes to
(06:38):
diddling around. But I now have one hundred inch screen
in my apartment. That's so much less work than the
vision Pro because the vision pro is like constant maintenance,
and I feel like if they waited, I don't know,
it may in case a friend of the show, he
suggests that this will just never happen. I honestly don't
necessarily know if I disagree with him on this one,
but it's like, I really hope it does. If it
(07:00):
was just something like maybe out no, like a hat
that just worked, that would be cool. But we're like, no,
not even.
Speaker 1 (07:08):
Close right exactly.
Speaker 4 (07:10):
And I think that's kind of why a lot of
these companies are kind of working towards these smart glasses instead.
Speaker 1 (07:16):
Because they are natural.
Speaker 4 (07:17):
They do feel like something you would wear, whether there
was tech in them or not. But again, I feel
like convincing people that this is something that's actually going
to be more convenient might be difficult.
Speaker 1 (07:29):
Although I don't know.
Speaker 4 (07:30):
I mean, people who wear glasses might say, hey, I
need new glasses anyway, and that looks cool.
Speaker 1 (07:34):
Maybe I'll try it.
Speaker 2 (07:34):
The thing is with the smart glasses is I just
have to wonder about the social problem because I know
if one of my friends other than like Victoria Suga,
came on wearing them, if someone was wearing them when
I was like at a bar, I wouldn't want to
look at them. I have to wonder how most people
would feel about that.
Speaker 4 (07:53):
I think there's that that's an important part. I also
feel like the interaction element is going to be weird
socially because you're out, let's say, we're sitting here talking
or we're at a cafe and we're talking about something
and I'm like, oh, let me go look that up
on my phone. If instead I were to say, I
can just ask gem and I in my glasses.
Speaker 2 (08:10):
We're just staring dead eye right exactly. Well that Victoria's
some from the virtual Tradition was showing, It's like when
you're looking, it is this weird kind of dead eye,
this dead eyed step, because you're just your eye is
staring at the corner. And I just wonder, like, as
cool as it is, what's the point of the smart
glasses as well? Like I can I see the Vision
pro as a more and even the Galaxy one as
(08:33):
a more fundamentally sound idea than the glasses, because at
some point it's like, okay, if I'm wearing glasses, like
I need guidance where I'm going, I guess that's useful,
But like, am I just putting this on versus Okay,
I'll put on a helmet and watch a sports game.
Speaker 4 (08:50):
I think the way that icy glasses, if they do
take off, the reason why I would almost think of
them as like kind of like the way you think
of AirPods and wireless earbuds like some that's on you.
You can use it to listen to music, to take
calls as you're walking, and then it also has that
optional displays you can, you know, see where you're going
or look at directions or whatever you might want to
(09:12):
look at, like the time whatever. So kind of like
bridging together like what you would use a smart watch
for and what you would use wireless ear buds for.
Speaker 2 (09:20):
Yeah, I see that, and I just wonder as well,
will Apple even bother will Google even like actually, if
Google does it again, I have to respect them. After
the whole Google Glass debacle, are they still around Google Glass?
(09:43):
I want, I can't remember.
Speaker 1 (09:44):
I don't know where the latest on Google Glass stands.
Speaker 4 (09:47):
I don't think they are. I know they kind of
pivoted to enterprise.
Speaker 2 (09:50):
Yeah, that's why I wasn't That's why I wasn't sure
if they'd done away, because I know Microsoft is basically
killed HoloLens, but they have a very small enterprise division. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (10:00):
I mean at this point with I feel like I
don't know for sure. I can't speak for Google, but
it would make sense for them to I feel like
focus more on Android x are and the future of
that platform at this point, well, for me, take.
Speaker 2 (10:11):
It a slight change. The one thing I will say
is this is an unpopular opinion. That can have my
house for this one. I love the iPhone AS and
I heard that they're delaying the next one to like
twenty thirty seven. I'm very disapoint I'm very upset by this.
I love the iPhone A.
Speaker 1 (10:25):
I do like it to me for it, no, I
think it's a good phone.
Speaker 4 (10:29):
And for Apple, I feel like they don't you know,
that's all they need is a good iPhone.
Speaker 1 (10:33):
People will buy it right.
Speaker 4 (10:34):
It doesn't have to reinvent the wheel every single time
they come out with a new phone. I do think
where Apple can struggle sometimes is when you have these
in between models that are like not too different in
price from whatever. The cheapest iPhone and the most expensive
iPhone is like that. For whatever reason, this is just
again my own observation, Apple's audience has a hard time
(10:55):
latching onto like whatever that like in between models, whether
it's the Plus or the Mini Air, it seems like
it's hard for them to generate demand.
Speaker 2 (11:03):
It does kind of feel like a weird if I wonder.
I hope, because the whole thing. It feels like I
didn't think of it as an in between as well,
because you're right, it feels like they would naturally try
and make the main ones this thing, because that's the
whole reason I like it. It feels like a smaller It
feels like an in between between an iPad madia and
an iPad. But I love I love the iPad Pro.
I love having a very thin device, and every phone's
(11:25):
getting fatter. It feels like, yeah.
Speaker 4 (11:27):
And I think we're at the point also where people
aren't super wowed by how thin technology can get because
we've been there for a while. So I don't think
this premise of an iPhone Air really hit the same
way the iPad Air did the way the MacBook Air did,
And I think it's just kind of for that reason
that we're desensitized to it. And I think Apple shoppers
(11:48):
tend to fall into two categories. Either I had an
iPhone for years and I'm not even thinking about what
phone I have. I'm just going to get the next
iPhone whenever my current one dies. And then you have
the people that do get except about new iPhones, and
those people do care about things like maybe not having
an extra camera or you know, the best battery life
or whatever.
Speaker 2 (12:08):
It's source of the camera's pretty bad. It's I've gotten
around it, but yeah, it sucks.
Speaker 4 (12:13):
Yeah, it's I mean like I'm not I'm the person
that takes casual photos all the time, and I think
the camera's fine. I haven't been blown away by it
in my own just you know, usage here and there.
Speaker 2 (12:24):
It does feel like we're approaching peak phone, though.
Speaker 1 (12:26):
Oh I feel like we've been there for a while.
Speaker 2 (12:28):
Like the iPhone seventeen, PROMACX whatever, it's just it's the
same phone exactly.
Speaker 4 (12:35):
I feel like we've been at peak phone for a while.
And I do feel like that's part of what Apple's
trying to do here with the iPhone, airs show that
it can make something that's different, that's unexpected, that's not
just the same phone repackaged, and then.
Speaker 2 (12:46):
People hate it so now that now they don't know
what to do.
Speaker 4 (12:50):
I do feel like, and this is a common argument,
but I do feel like it's a step towards a foldable.
Speaker 1 (12:55):
iPhone, at least in my what I want. The technology
needs to be.
Speaker 4 (12:59):
They need to engineer the phone differently for it to
be foldable. It's not just about the crease and all that,
but you have to think about the battery, the components
and that, Like engineering wise, that was a big step
forward with the iPhone error.
Speaker 2 (13:10):
I have to wonder as well if the reason they've
jumped on the foldables is they're still very experimental Jerry
Riggs everything. There was someone who did a review of
a foldable and they made it like one of the
Google ones that set on fire, and it just from
like bending it too much. It's like, if we're still there,
Apple doesn't want to touch this with a fifty foot pall.
Speaker 1 (13:30):
Yeah, I feel like foldables have gotten really good.
Speaker 4 (13:32):
I feel like Samsungs in particular, like because they have
been doing this for so long, it's finally gotten to
the point where the fold feels like a regular phone
and that's really cool. But I do feel like it's
still a subset of the phone market.
Speaker 1 (13:47):
Most people just want a new phone.
Speaker 4 (13:48):
But I agree, I feel like the minute there is
a foldable iPhone, I'm going to buy one, mostly out
of curiosity, but also because I really do enjoy using
foldable phones and it does make the experience feel a
little different. And this like the iPhone Air to me
as soon as I picked it up, I was like,
this just feels like a z flip that doesn't fold
in half the shape the Galaxy Oh yeah, that's like
(14:10):
the Galaxy flip phone one.
Speaker 1 (14:12):
And then of course Motorola has one as well.
Speaker 2 (14:14):
Yeah, I know Michael Fisher missed Mauvel himself loves those things,
and that's like the trifold ones as well. I love
these crazy Chinese phones where it's like three giant things
that you unfold probably breaks me.
Speaker 1 (14:26):
Just announced there was like last night.
Speaker 2 (14:28):
Yeah, yes, I want more weird phone me too.
Speaker 1 (14:32):
I want phones to be weird again.
Speaker 4 (14:33):
I had a Microsoft Kin back in the day, like
the Samsung Juke.
Speaker 1 (14:37):
I had all these weird phones.
Speaker 2 (14:38):
Tell me about what what is the Microsoft Kin? I
remember the name, but I don't remember what it was.
Speaker 4 (14:43):
So this was and this was like way before I
was writing about phones. I was just like, this thing's weird.
I want it. It was their social media phone.
Speaker 2 (14:50):
Oh my god.
Speaker 4 (14:51):
Yeah, so like your front screen now look at it.
Speaker 1 (14:55):
Yes, that was like peak weird phone.
Speaker 4 (14:57):
It like had this cover screen that would look like
your Facebook and then you would open it up and
there would be a keyboard on the inside. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:03):
I had the second generation one, so that one looked
a little bit.
Speaker 2 (15:06):
More like every one that looks like an egg.
Speaker 1 (15:08):
No, not the egg one, the other one that yeah
that first time.
Speaker 2 (15:10):
Yeah, they so they had one one that looked like
a palm pre it looks like, and then one that
kind of looked like a normal phone twenty ten as well. Yeah,
what a what a classic twenty ten decision?
Speaker 1 (15:23):
Exactly. I loved it. I thought it was so cool,
but it was so glitchy. And that's why I ended
up getting rid of it.
Speaker 4 (15:29):
Was that, like the operating system just crashed one day
and I just couldn't use it anymore. And this is
before I really knew how to like troubleshoot things, and
before I was really even interested in technology, and I
just got it. I think at that point I finally
switched to a smartphone. But yeah, I mean phones were
weird back then and it was really cool and I
kind of missed that. But I feel like foldable phones,
(15:49):
to your point, are filling that void because if you
look at the common thread between weird phones is that
they're all trying to be some kind of like hybrid device. Yeah,
like those phones of the twenty tens were like, oh,
you still kind of want to use your keyboard, but
you also want something that feels like a smartphone.
Speaker 2 (16:04):
And you know, my favorite was so I definitely the
BlackBerry Storm. I don't know if you remember that as
far as there was that weird generation when everyone was
just trying something weird and there was this horrible, horrible
BlackBerry where it was like haptic but it just felt
like pressing into fudge. Yeah, so cool. But I just
looked this up Samsung Juke What the looked like a
(16:27):
key ring.
Speaker 4 (16:29):
Yeah, it was supposed to be like an MP three
player slash phone. It was weird, but also it came
out at the point where you could already store your
music on a regular phone. But I don't know, I
thought it was cool and weird and it was so tiny.
Speaker 1 (16:42):
Yeah, it was so kind.
Speaker 2 (16:43):
Of love how small it is. It looks like a
chocolate bar. Yeah, yeah, it like swings open. I I
miss when we were doing weird shit with Fun. There
was that weird there were.
Speaker 1 (16:53):
Just everyone Everything just looks like this now.
Speaker 2 (16:56):
Yeah everything's a brick, yes, And it's a shame. It
feels like everything is just kind of normalizing around it
when we need more weird shit. But I guess we've
now seen what happens when you're actually, no, the iPhone
at wasn't weird enough. That's the problem exactly.
Speaker 4 (17:09):
I think that that's you know, when I talk about
those like in between phones, and I think what makes
it hard to kind of really create a lot of
demand for those phones is that they're not different enough.
Speaker 1 (17:20):
They're just in between, and they're not that different in price.
Speaker 4 (17:22):
And I think that's you know, a big part of
what can make it difficult to kind of sell somebody
on that it's not that much less expensive than the Pro,
but it's thinner, so like do you it's and.
Speaker 2 (17:32):
Also there's still like one thousand dollars. These are not.
Speaker 1 (17:35):
Cheap, No, not at all.
Speaker 4 (17:37):
No, it's meant to be like a Pro that's thinner,
I think, except you know, hardware is different obviously, and
it's pretty fast.
Speaker 2 (17:43):
I like it a lot. It's just I'm annoyed because
the camera is it's just shit enough. It's not that
it's bad, it's like just a little bit worse. Like
it can't really zoom. You have to digital zoom.
Speaker 4 (17:54):
Yeah, it doesn't have a lot of zoom even digitally,
it doesn't zoom in that far.
Speaker 2 (17:57):
Yeah, it's weird how little has happened with Apple in
the last year as well, because they tried the Vision
Pro and then they just went, uh.
Speaker 3 (18:04):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (18:05):
I don't know.
Speaker 4 (18:05):
I feel like the Vision Pro is one of those
things that it's gonna I don't know. I feel like
people were expecting it for a long time. The expectations
were really high, and I think for Apple there especially
high because they have this history of creating not necessarily
being the first, but being the first to get people
excited about a new category and show yeah yeah, and
(18:26):
like show how this should be done, like with the
smart watch, Like the Apple Watch was not the first
smart watch by any means, but it.
Speaker 1 (18:32):
Was the first one that got kind of popular or
popular enough.
Speaker 2 (18:35):
And they were smart enough to treat as a fashion item, which.
Speaker 4 (18:38):
Right, although that's not what it is at all now
and it's so funny to see how that's not that
they don't hear.
Speaker 2 (18:44):
Yes, the Multure was like a Vanity Vogue spread and
they were really there was a ten thousand dollars Amaze one.
Speaker 1 (18:50):
Yes, Oh my god, I repect that.
Speaker 2 (18:52):
But I love that they tried that and they just
walked away, just like, yeah, that's the sports thing now.
Speaker 4 (18:57):
And that's the thing is like, when you create a
new category, it's really hard to predict to what people
are actually going to use it for or what they're
going to gravitate towards.
Speaker 2 (19:06):
I think they were doing it just for the marketing.
I think it was literally just to get people to
write about it.
Speaker 1 (19:10):
But also smart watches were so ugly back then.
Speaker 4 (19:13):
That's the other thing, is that the reason why there
was the Pebble which I loved so much. Honestly, it looked, yes,
they are back, you know. The original Pebble watch didn't
look like anything special, but it was like yeah, yeah,
it was.
Speaker 1 (19:30):
Like funky and weird.
Speaker 4 (19:31):
It was like had a monochrome display and I just
loved And it's funny because I'm not usually this person
like that cares about customizing things. But you could customize
the watch face to be like literally anything you want
and talk about like weird gadgets like I feel like
that was also like not weird, but they had such
a fun community around it that would develop all these
custom watch faces and things like that, and it was
(19:53):
just really it was a cool little device.
Speaker 2 (20:09):
I feel like that era was great. I realized there
was a lot of fraud on Indiegogo and Kickstarter, but
there was also just weird shit. And now that's all
in China. Yeah, it's just GP you play with any
GPD stuff You ever seen them? No, they just make
gaming PCs, but the handhelds and they all cost they
have one. It's cool, but it's also your like, you
wacky sons of bitch. They're doing a handheld one where
(20:32):
you have an external battery. It's just like, sure, why not,
It's at that point why not? And they always make
four million dollars on Kickstarter. I hope all of that
money is not from criminal enterprises, and not suggesting it is,
but every time. But it's just I wish that there
was I'm sure that there are economic reasons. For sure.
Someone was to shoot me an email about this. I
wish we had more American firms willing to try share
(20:53):
because it's toll right now. It's boring out.
Speaker 4 (20:56):
Yeah, it's things have looked the same for a long time,
and you had like a brief moment in like the
mid twenty tens, like twenty sixteen, twenty seventeen, when Alexa
was just starting to become really popular, and then everyone thought.
Speaker 1 (21:09):
The smart home was going to take off in a
way that it never did.
Speaker 2 (21:11):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (21:12):
That yeah, that I'm thinking about like these.
Speaker 4 (21:13):
Different phases of like everyone's like, oh, this is gonna
be the next big thing after phones, and like we
still have not reached them.
Speaker 2 (21:19):
Well don't you haven't it? I mean to the point
of everything being the same as well, it's like you
buy you buy a Google device, it's called Gemini on it.
You buy an Apple device, it's called Apple Intelligence. You
immediately turn it off. It's just everything kind of feels
and looks the same. And yeah, you watch a commercial,
it's just more fucking Gemini. I don't know if you
use Gemen. I still don't know why Gemini three has
(21:41):
caused so much.
Speaker 4 (21:42):
It's the same, yeah, I mean it's like a sure,
it's like a better version of the same.
Speaker 1 (21:46):
I've used it here and there. You know, I don't.
Speaker 4 (21:49):
I use AI a lot in like my like personal
life or whatever, just to get things done. But it's
not like I don't think we're at the point yet where,
at least in my personal usage, I don't see that
much of a difference between chat, GPT and Gemini in
terms of what.
Speaker 1 (22:06):
I use them for.
Speaker 4 (22:07):
And I think it's that's one interesting thing I feel
like about AI compared to a lot of the other
products in our lives. Like when you have a phone
or a computer, you're like, okay, I'm a Mac or
a PC person, I'm iOS or Android. I feel like
with AI, people do use different models for different things.
I don't feel like people are loyal to just one
all the time.
Speaker 2 (22:24):
I also think that it's the you know how I
feel about AI, But it's also it's not clear what
makes one different from the other, like with A I
guess that's the case with phones as well, except phones
don't just burn money every time you turn them on.
But it's it's strange because this Gemini thing has really
taken off stock market. You got people right, and you
wrote this piece about like Google is the new leader
(22:46):
in AI. No, it's good, but it's just like why,
And I think it comes down to they mostly do
the same. It makes me think people gonna love this.
I think that like the only company that will even
do llm's long term is Google, and then they'll just
make it. They'll pull back the prices. But it's like, no,
one can really explain what the difference is, and thus
no one actually has any brand power.
Speaker 3 (23:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (23:08):
I think for Google it's an extension of like their
business model. Naturally, like people use Google Search to find
information and do things, and now people have started using
llms for that, so of course it makes sense for
them to do that, and they have an advantage in
that sense. I think Google has that advantage, right that
you have all these people that don't even know about
AI are just going to naturally start using their product
(23:30):
because it's Gemini and their models are now baked into
almost everything, right, AI mode, everything else, you know, Open AI.
I think their advantage has been that they were, you know,
chatchipt kind of became a household name pretty quickly, so
it's hard to kind of once any brand has that
(23:51):
kind of like has made that kind of impression, I
feel like it's hard to compete with that, or you know.
Speaker 1 (23:57):
I feel like that's why I see so.
Speaker 4 (23:58):
Much consolidation in the tech industry in particulars, because it's
really hard to be that third, right, you have like
one or two that are really big, and then being
that third is really challenging.
Speaker 2 (24:07):
It's also there's little I feel like there's not really
much reward for being first with this is what or
even being the household name. You just burn a bunch
of money. There was a story in the information that
came out this week who this will run now a
week after that, but where it's like open ay zone
code read because of Gemini. It's like, and you read
the article, it's really funny because there's a bit where
it's just like step one, make Chad GPT's ans as better,
(24:30):
Step two, make it able to do more, Step three
make people like it. It's like, what have you been doing?
What have you been doing the last six months? Honestly
that maybe what Gemini three is. It's just that they said,
I went what would make people use this more?
Speaker 4 (24:46):
Well, what's interesting is like you have kind of the
opposite Like open ai and Google are in the opposite scenarios.
They're like the inverse of each other. Like Google is
already playing in so many different areas from search to
owns to all these other products that shopping right, all
of these things that we do every day online, and
(25:06):
because they have that in place already, they can just
kind of sprinkle AI into things as they go along.
Open Ai had the opposite where they had this one
like breakout AI service and now they're you know, kind
of in this mode where they're like, hey, we're not
just this one thing, We're the next big Internet company. Right.
That's kind of what they're projecting based on all of
these areas that they're trying.
Speaker 1 (25:26):
To expand into. So I think it's kind of interesting.
Speaker 4 (25:29):
Back years ago, the New York Times had that piece
where Google was saying, we're in a code es GPT
and now open AI, according to that article, is you know,
facing that moment of its own.
Speaker 2 (25:40):
I just I also think that no one knows what
to do with large language, but I just don't. I
think at this point, so much money's going and you
can't get a straight answer about out of any of
them as to why you're using them, like in your
personal life. I imagine brainstorming stuff or like looking stuff up.
Speaker 1 (25:54):
Like right, like stuff that I would probably use Google
for exactly.
Speaker 2 (25:58):
Yeah. And it's like if this ends with just Google
managers to pull in the customers the open A I
had and then ends up probably making it putting some
of this away because it's too expensive, it's just like,
of course, if this is that actually is probably how
it ends with just like a large company destroying a
startup and nothing happening. I hope so the sooner the better.
(26:19):
I mean, it's it is three years and we've not
really had a proper use case beyond better search. It's strange,
it's everywhere.
Speaker 4 (26:28):
Yeah, I would agree in that, Like I do think
it's moving fast in terms of like it started out,
you know, the shift from just being able to answer
simple questions to being able to like reason and whatever
and think of these questions more.
Speaker 1 (26:45):
But to your point, that's not the use case. That's
the technology.
Speaker 2 (26:47):
It's also just it's also just more search, Like it
really is just knowledge search on instead of web search, right,
And sometimes it gets it well, I'm.
Speaker 4 (26:56):
Sure, I'm sure you've heard this term more times than
you would like. I even hate saying it because I
feel like it's become such a nonsense buzzword.
Speaker 1 (27:03):
You could probably guess what I'm going to say.
Speaker 4 (27:05):
But AI agents are supposedly going to be the next
step whenever this AI.
Speaker 2 (27:11):
I love this. Well, It's funny when you go and
look at the term agent, it just means like chat.
It really does just mean chato. Oh. Even you go
back to twenty twenty three. That's so open a I
defined it, yeah, but I loved I saw the statistics
just like eleven percent it was AI agents. It's like, no,
it wasn't. If you're just considering AI search agent, that's
just search engines and that. I keep reading about these
(27:34):
shopping integrations as well, but I can never make them
work because I come and try, I go and try
the Walmart with work. I managed to make it do
something in Canva right, but it's like I could have
just done that in Canva right.
Speaker 4 (27:47):
And that's the thing that's I think for me where
a lot of the skepticism comes in is that I
feel like we've been talking about these agents for years,
two points since chat gipt came out.
Speaker 1 (27:56):
They're like, this is what it's going to These things
are going to go and do stuff right.
Speaker 4 (27:59):
These things are going to do stuff for you, And
I do think that could be really helpful, honestly, But
I also have a lot of skepticism and concerns about,
like I don't know, handing over anything that I remotely
care about being done the right way to an AI agent,
Like I'm skeptical that people are going to trust it
enough to handle things well.
Speaker 2 (28:17):
It's also it doesn't seem to be able to do
it is my big thing. But even when you looked
at like the AI browsers from like, yeah, there's was
a comment from perplexity in Atlas from open ai or whatever.
When you look there's like this thing of the prompt
injection attacks. I don't know if you've seen this. Yes,
I could just get with just the website. If you
use them on a website, the website could attack you.
(28:38):
What I love, though, is the people who are innovating
appear to just be criminals. The people who are like
actually finding AI innovations are like Cambodian pig butchering operations.
North I was North Korean. I heard this story the
other day from a mate where it's North Korean people
are using like in like hacker groups are applying to
(29:00):
and getting American jobs. Oh really use and using deep
called deep fakes for the know your customer stuff and
like it's really fucking grow.
Speaker 4 (29:10):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (29:10):
It's just like no, everything I read is just like, man,
there is innovation crime. Well, actually, Robert Evans of cool
Zone Meter in twenty twenty four said that was the
actual innovation. We're walkingto a restaurant. He said, no, that's
where it is. It's like fraud, massive fraud.
Speaker 4 (29:25):
No, I mean, and I feel like anytime you have
a new technology, the bad guys always find a way
to make use of it before, you know, faster than
the good guys.
Speaker 2 (29:33):
Do you think they are the only ones? Yeah, they're
making I will say North Korean hacker groups, I'm pretty
sure are making more profit than open Ai, which is cool.
I think that that's cool. I think I think that
that's the world we deserve, honestly, and I think that's
where we're heading towards. Because when you create a technology
that you're not really sure what it does, of course
somebody malign is going to use it to your own point, right,
(29:55):
It's like, of course they're going to find a way
around it. All right, As we wrap up, is there
anything you're actually looking forward to in the tech industry though?
Is there anything you're anything on the on the horizon?
It's okay if there isn't.
Speaker 4 (30:07):
Honestly, there isn't really just one thing right now. I
feel like, you know, all of this AI stuff is
a little dizzying, and there's a lot of skepticism about it.
But I will say, as someone who's been covering this
industry for like a little more than ten years and
a lot of that just being the same, I feel
like it's been fun to write about something that it
does feel new, whether for better or for worse, it
(30:28):
is something that feels new and different. What am I
looking forward to? I want weird phones again, That's what
I'm looking forward to. I hope that phones get weird
to get.
Speaker 2 (30:36):
I want things with hand cranks some. I mean, that's
the play Date console, but I mean even the Nintendo
Switch To was kind of safe.
Speaker 3 (30:45):
It's good.
Speaker 4 (30:45):
I like it a lot, but it's weird for Nintendo
to do that. I feel like like doing.
Speaker 2 (30:51):
I love it.
Speaker 4 (30:52):
No, I have like almost every Nintendo console, but yeah,
I feel like coming out with more of the same
is not usually in their playbook. But the switch was
so successful that they kind of had to people. Could
you imagine if the Switch Too was entirely different and
wasn't a better version of the same console.
Speaker 2 (31:08):
I feel like I do wonder if we're going to
get a pushback on this eventually though, if people are
just gonna we need some weird shit again, that's what
That's what the energy I'm putting into the universe today.
Speaker 1 (31:18):
Yes, me too.
Speaker 2 (31:19):
So where do people find you?
Speaker 4 (31:20):
You can find me on I'm on X Blue Sky
and threads at least said Chico, and you can also
find my work of course at CNN dot.
Speaker 2 (31:28):
Com wonderful, and you can find me at Better Offline
dot com. Subscribe to the newsletter, email me on my
web verse. Thank you for listening, Love you.
Speaker 3 (31:35):
All, Thank you for listening to Better Offline.
Speaker 5 (31:46):
The editor and composer of the Better Offline theme song
is Metasowski. You can check out more of his music
and audio projects at Matasowski dot com, M A T
T O S O W s ki dot com. You
can email me at easy at Better Offline dot com,
or visit Better Offline dot com to find more podcast
links and of course, my newsletter. I also really recommend
(32:08):
you go to chat dot where'soead dot at to visit
the discord, and go to our slash Better Offline to
check out I'll Reddit.
Speaker 2 (32:14):
Thank you so much for listening.
Speaker 3 (32:17):
Better Offline is a production of cool Zone Media.
Speaker 5 (32:19):
For more from cool Zone Media, visit our website cool
Zonemedia dot com or check us out on the iHeartRadio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Also media.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Enter the twisted mind of ed Zitron. This is better offline.
Speaker 3 (00:18):
That's right.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
We're here in New York City, New York State, and
we've got a great guest, Lisa Atichico from CNN. Thank
you so much for joining us, Lisa on this horrible
wet day, truly truly one of the ugliest days in
New York history. But nevertheless, we're going to talk about
consumer tech to then and everyone says, oh, Ed, you've
got to be nicey, you've got to be like things more.
But what's a gadget you've actually liked this year? Like,
(00:43):
what's what's the stuff you've been enjoying?
Speaker 4 (00:46):
Yeah, And it's it's kind of funny because I feel
like when I think about gadgets, I think about them
two ways. There's one like the gadgets I would actually
buy and that I actually use every day, and then
two the ones that are I think interesting for what
they say about the industry or that have been fun
to write about and fun to cover, and for the
things that I have enjoyed using this year.
Speaker 1 (01:07):
I would say it's a lot of the.
Speaker 4 (01:08):
Things you'd expect, like the Nintendo Switch to is a
fun one. This year, the new Apple Watch, because I'm
a big Apple Watch user, things like that, And then
there's the other category of things that I think have
been really fun to write about, and for that, I
would say the Galaxy x are definitely stands out.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
So what is the Galaxy So that's the Vision prone too, right, Yes,
So how comfortable is it? Stop there?
Speaker 4 (01:33):
I would say, I mean, none of these things are
super comfortable, to be honest. It's still this thing that's
bigger than a pair of glasses, bigger than something you're
used to wearing on your face, so it's always going
to be a little bit uncomfortable. I do think the
Galaxy XR was like very easy to adjust and get
to fit correctly for me. I feel like a lot
of these headsets usually are a little too big for
(01:55):
me or might like fall off my head.
Speaker 2 (01:57):
The Vision Crow I have a giant Bonce, giant giant
head and that thing. Try to get that thing on
was like balancing a cup of tea on.
Speaker 1 (02:05):
My head exactly. It's never it's never that comfortable. It's
kind of weird. Yeah, I do feel like it was
easy to adjust.
Speaker 4 (02:11):
It wasn't the most comfortable thing to wear, but I only,
and I only wore it for like maybe about twenty
minutes at a time, So I do feel like wearing
it for extended use cases, the kinds of things that
Samsung and Google think you'll use it for, like productivity
and entertainment. I think that's I don't know how comfortable
it would be to wear it for, like, you know,
if I'm working on a project or watching a movie
or something.
Speaker 2 (02:31):
To say, you wouldn't do like your actual work inside it, I.
Speaker 1 (02:34):
Would try it.
Speaker 4 (02:35):
I think it would just take some time to get
used to, you know, wearing that thing for like an
hour or longer.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
Because as like a vision pro truth and I think
I mentioned this in person previously, but I can't use
my vision pro right now. I can use it, but
I can't update it unless you keep it on your
head during the update, which is one of the most
insane ideas ever. But I genuinely like that. When I
was trying it, I was so tall because eighty five
(03:01):
percent of the time, I fucking hate it. I just
I really I was just like mad at it because
like it would something would like my cat would brush
my head and that it would be out of focus.
But there were these times on getting it and be like,
this is actually really cool. I'm like writing, I wrote
a whole thing on it, like it was back in
the earlier days of the show. I was like, I
really like, this's got some music in the background. And
(03:22):
then again like Babu my cat would knock me in
the head because he's very affectionate cat to do now
he's a lovely affectionate cat, massive part of the show.
And then I'd need to readjust it and then I
would start to get a headache. Did you did you
find that the software was good on the Galaxy one?
Like how was it in comparison?
Speaker 4 (03:39):
Yeah, So there's a couple of big things that stand
out to me. I think the Gemini integration is really good,
and it should be because that's the one thing that
Google and Samsung are kind of pitching as setting this
apart from the Vision Pro and previous attempts at mixed
reality and VR, but the idea that you can just
look at something and ask a question about it. Like
in my demo from October, I was looking at photos
(04:00):
and Google photos, and yes, it's cool that you can
look at them on a giant screen and everything, But
for me, what felt like the new thing that this
is bringing to the table is being able to look
at that photo and be like, oh, where in the
world those types of trees usually grow and can like
that combination of like knowing what you're looking at without
having to really specify. I do think the vision Pro
is better at certain things like media for example, right,
(04:23):
I mean some of the like spatial videos that have
been created for the vision Pro are.
Speaker 1 (04:28):
Just like breathtaking when you look at them.
Speaker 4 (04:30):
But I don't I don't know that I would buy
a vision Pro for that reason, but it is very impressive.
Speaker 2 (04:35):
It is the thing like even with both of them,
they have the same problem where it's like this is
a cool idea, like oh, I know where that tree
is now, like great, but it's like practically within my
life when am I sitting down being like when where's
that tree from? Like where is the Yeah, where's the
practical uses in With the vision Pro, it's like great,
I can put this on my head and walk around
(04:56):
with it. I can kind of see who is this for?
Speaker 1 (04:59):
Yeah, I think that's the big question.
Speaker 4 (05:01):
And I feel like that's kind of at least for
me when I try to look at Okay, what new
products have been successful and did actually start a category
and catch on with consumers, and.
Speaker 1 (05:11):
Which ones haven't.
Speaker 4 (05:12):
And the thing that I've kind of noticed is the
ones I haven't or when you really try to kind
of force a user behavior that isn't there. And sometimes
I feel like that's what's happening with these headsets, is
that the technology is very, very cool, it's very advanced,
but it always feels like it's a step towards something
more natural that we haven't gotten to yet. And you
could say that about the Oculis Drift that came out
(05:34):
more than ten years ago. In some cases, even the
headsets today. I still feel that way about.
Speaker 2 (05:38):
And the Steam. Have you seen the Steam frame? We
just add the valve.
Speaker 1 (05:43):
I haven't tried it. I've seen I don't think.
Speaker 2 (05:45):
I don't. I think I just had stay from games.
Next is on and he tried it a bit. But
it's with all these things, it's like I wish that
have waited four years. Yeah, I wish that wait because
there are those moments like you mentioned with the special video,
where it's like, holy shit, like this is actually really cool.
Like I watched like a basketball game on the Vision
promo I'm like, this is this is actually.
Speaker 1 (06:05):
Hard until you try it right.
Speaker 4 (06:07):
And that's the things I don't feel like that many
people are gonna have the opportunity to really try it
at length, to work it into their lives. But yeah,
the idea of like, oh my god, it really does
feel like I'm sitting courtside right, Yeah, that's very cool.
Speaker 2 (06:17):
And the other thing is that even if it's just
a big TV, that is cool. The problem is is
you can just sit down and watch a television. He
just turned the bloody thing on. I have. I have
this Nebular X one projector, which I fucking like. It's
like Anchor, It's so good soundpoll now, and I just
got like a nice screen I pull up and that
just even that it's like two or three minutes to
(06:38):
diddling around. But I now have one hundred inch screen
in my apartment. That's so much less work than the
vision Pro because the vision pro is like constant maintenance,
and I feel like if they waited, I don't know,
it may in case a friend of the show, he
suggests that this will just never happen. I honestly don't
necessarily know if I disagree with him on this one,
but it's like, I really hope it does. If it
(07:00):
was just something like maybe out no, like a hat
that just worked, that would be cool. But we're like, no,
not even.
Speaker 1 (07:08):
Close right exactly.
Speaker 4 (07:10):
And I think that's kind of why a lot of
these companies are kind of working towards these smart glasses instead.
Speaker 1 (07:16):
Because they are natural.
Speaker 4 (07:17):
They do feel like something you would wear, whether there
was tech in them or not. But again, I feel
like convincing people that this is something that's actually going
to be more convenient might be difficult.
Speaker 1 (07:29):
Although I don't know.
Speaker 4 (07:30):
I mean, people who wear glasses might say, hey, I
need new glasses anyway, and that looks cool.
Speaker 1 (07:34):
Maybe I'll try it.
Speaker 2 (07:34):
The thing is with the smart glasses is I just
have to wonder about the social problem because I know
if one of my friends other than like Victoria Suga,
came on wearing them, if someone was wearing them when
I was like at a bar, I wouldn't want to
look at them. I have to wonder how most people
would feel about that.
Speaker 4 (07:53):
I think there's that that's an important part. I also
feel like the interaction element is going to be weird
socially because you're out, let's say, we're sitting here talking
or we're at a cafe and we're talking about something
and I'm like, oh, let me go look that up
on my phone. If instead I were to say, I
can just ask gem and I in my glasses.
Speaker 2 (08:10):
We're just staring dead eye right exactly. Well that Victoria's
some from the virtual Tradition was showing, It's like when
you're looking, it is this weird kind of dead eye,
this dead eyed step, because you're just your eye is
staring at the corner. And I just wonder, like, as
cool as it is, what's the point of the smart
glasses as well? Like I can I see the Vision
pro as a more and even the Galaxy one as
(08:33):
a more fundamentally sound idea than the glasses, because at
some point it's like, okay, if I'm wearing glasses, like
I need guidance where I'm going, I guess that's useful,
But like, am I just putting this on versus Okay,
I'll put on a helmet and watch a sports game.
Speaker 4 (08:50):
I think the way that icy glasses, if they do
take off, the reason why I would almost think of
them as like kind of like the way you think
of AirPods and wireless earbuds like some that's on you.
You can use it to listen to music, to take
calls as you're walking, and then it also has that
optional displays you can, you know, see where you're going
or look at directions or whatever you might want to
(09:12):
look at, like the time whatever. So kind of like
bridging together like what you would use a smart watch
for and what you would use wireless ear buds for.
Speaker 2 (09:20):
Yeah, I see that, and I just wonder as well,
will Apple even bother will Google even like actually, if
Google does it again, I have to respect them. After
the whole Google Glass debacle, are they still around Google Glass?
(09:43):
I want, I can't remember.
Speaker 1 (09:44):
I don't know where the latest on Google Glass stands.
Speaker 4 (09:47):
I don't think they are. I know they kind of
pivoted to enterprise.
Speaker 2 (09:50):
Yeah, that's why I wasn't That's why I wasn't sure
if they'd done away, because I know Microsoft is basically
killed HoloLens, but they have a very small enterprise division. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (10:00):
I mean at this point with I feel like I
don't know for sure. I can't speak for Google, but
it would make sense for them to I feel like
focus more on Android x are and the future of
that platform at this point, well, for me, take.
Speaker 2 (10:11):
It a slight change. The one thing I will say
is this is an unpopular opinion. That can have my
house for this one. I love the iPhone AS and
I heard that they're delaying the next one to like
twenty thirty seven. I'm very disapoint I'm very upset by this.
I love the iPhone A.
Speaker 1 (10:25):
I do like it to me for it, no, I
think it's a good phone.
Speaker 4 (10:29):
And for Apple, I feel like they don't you know,
that's all they need is a good iPhone.
Speaker 1 (10:33):
People will buy it right.
Speaker 4 (10:34):
It doesn't have to reinvent the wheel every single time
they come out with a new phone. I do think
where Apple can struggle sometimes is when you have these
in between models that are like not too different in
price from whatever. The cheapest iPhone and the most expensive
iPhone is like that. For whatever reason, this is just
again my own observation, Apple's audience has a hard time
(10:55):
latching onto like whatever that like in between models, whether
it's the Plus or the Mini Air, it seems like
it's hard for them to generate demand.
Speaker 2 (11:03):
It does kind of feel like a weird if I wonder.
I hope, because the whole thing. It feels like I
didn't think of it as an in between as well,
because you're right, it feels like they would naturally try
and make the main ones this thing, because that's the
whole reason I like it. It feels like a smaller It
feels like an in between between an iPad madia and
an iPad. But I love I love the iPad Pro.
I love having a very thin device, and every phone's
(11:25):
getting fatter. It feels like, yeah.
Speaker 4 (11:27):
And I think we're at the point also where people
aren't super wowed by how thin technology can get because
we've been there for a while. So I don't think
this premise of an iPhone Air really hit the same
way the iPad Air did the way the MacBook Air did,
And I think it's just kind of for that reason
that we're desensitized to it. And I think Apple shoppers
(11:48):
tend to fall into two categories. Either I had an
iPhone for years and I'm not even thinking about what
phone I have. I'm just going to get the next
iPhone whenever my current one dies. And then you have
the people that do get except about new iPhones, and
those people do care about things like maybe not having
an extra camera or you know, the best battery life
or whatever.
Speaker 2 (12:08):
It's source of the camera's pretty bad. It's I've gotten
around it, but yeah, it sucks.
Speaker 4 (12:13):
Yeah, it's I mean like I'm not I'm the person
that takes casual photos all the time, and I think
the camera's fine. I haven't been blown away by it
in my own just you know, usage here and there.
Speaker 2 (12:24):
It does feel like we're approaching peak phone, though.
Speaker 1 (12:26):
Oh I feel like we've been there for a while.
Speaker 2 (12:28):
Like the iPhone seventeen, PROMACX whatever, it's just it's the
same phone exactly.
Speaker 4 (12:35):
I feel like we've been at peak phone for a while.
And I do feel like that's part of what Apple's
trying to do here with the iPhone, airs show that
it can make something that's different, that's unexpected, that's not
just the same phone repackaged, and then.
Speaker 2 (12:46):
People hate it so now that now they don't know
what to do.
Speaker 4 (12:50):
I do feel like, and this is a common argument,
but I do feel like it's a step towards a foldable.
Speaker 1 (12:55):
iPhone, at least in my what I want. The technology
needs to be.
Speaker 4 (12:59):
They need to engineer the phone differently for it to
be foldable. It's not just about the crease and all that,
but you have to think about the battery, the components
and that, Like engineering wise, that was a big step
forward with the iPhone error.
Speaker 2 (13:10):
I have to wonder as well if the reason they've
jumped on the foldables is they're still very experimental Jerry
Riggs everything. There was someone who did a review of
a foldable and they made it like one of the
Google ones that set on fire, and it just from
like bending it too much. It's like, if we're still there,
Apple doesn't want to touch this with a fifty foot pall.
Speaker 1 (13:30):
Yeah, I feel like foldables have gotten really good.
Speaker 4 (13:32):
I feel like Samsungs in particular, like because they have
been doing this for so long, it's finally gotten to
the point where the fold feels like a regular phone
and that's really cool. But I do feel like it's
still a subset of the phone market.
Speaker 1 (13:47):
Most people just want a new phone.
Speaker 4 (13:48):
But I agree, I feel like the minute there is
a foldable iPhone, I'm going to buy one, mostly out
of curiosity, but also because I really do enjoy using
foldable phones and it does make the experience feel a
little different. And this like the iPhone Air to me
as soon as I picked it up, I was like,
this just feels like a z flip that doesn't fold
in half the shape the Galaxy Oh yeah, that's like
(14:10):
the Galaxy flip phone one.
Speaker 1 (14:12):
And then of course Motorola has one as well.
Speaker 2 (14:14):
Yeah, I know Michael Fisher missed Mauvel himself loves those things,
and that's like the trifold ones as well. I love
these crazy Chinese phones where it's like three giant things
that you unfold probably breaks me.
Speaker 1 (14:26):
Just announced there was like last night.
Speaker 2 (14:28):
Yeah, yes, I want more weird phone me too.
Speaker 1 (14:32):
I want phones to be weird again.
Speaker 4 (14:33):
I had a Microsoft Kin back in the day, like
the Samsung Juke.
Speaker 1 (14:37):
I had all these weird phones.
Speaker 2 (14:38):
Tell me about what what is the Microsoft Kin? I
remember the name, but I don't remember what it was.
Speaker 4 (14:43):
So this was and this was like way before I
was writing about phones. I was just like, this thing's weird.
I want it. It was their social media phone.
Speaker 2 (14:50):
Oh my god.
Speaker 4 (14:51):
Yeah, so like your front screen now look at it.
Speaker 1 (14:55):
Yes, that was like peak weird phone.
Speaker 4 (14:57):
It like had this cover screen that would look like
your Facebook and then you would open it up and
there would be a keyboard on the inside. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:03):
I had the second generation one, so that one looked
a little bit.
Speaker 2 (15:06):
More like every one that looks like an egg.
Speaker 1 (15:08):
No, not the egg one, the other one that yeah
that first time.
Speaker 2 (15:10):
Yeah, they so they had one one that looked like
a palm pre it looks like, and then one that
kind of looked like a normal phone twenty ten as well. Yeah,
what a what a classic twenty ten decision?
Speaker 1 (15:23):
Exactly. I loved it. I thought it was so cool,
but it was so glitchy. And that's why I ended
up getting rid of it.
Speaker 4 (15:29):
Was that, like the operating system just crashed one day
and I just couldn't use it anymore. And this is
before I really knew how to like troubleshoot things, and
before I was really even interested in technology, and I
just got it. I think at that point I finally
switched to a smartphone. But yeah, I mean phones were
weird back then and it was really cool and I
kind of missed that. But I feel like foldable phones,
(15:49):
to your point, are filling that void because if you
look at the common thread between weird phones is that
they're all trying to be some kind of like hybrid device. Yeah,
like those phones of the twenty tens were like, oh,
you still kind of want to use your keyboard, but
you also want something that feels like a smartphone.
Speaker 2 (16:04):
And you know, my favorite was so I definitely the
BlackBerry Storm. I don't know if you remember that as
far as there was that weird generation when everyone was
just trying something weird and there was this horrible, horrible
BlackBerry where it was like haptic but it just felt
like pressing into fudge. Yeah, so cool. But I just
looked this up Samsung Juke What the looked like a
(16:27):
key ring.
Speaker 4 (16:29):
Yeah, it was supposed to be like an MP three
player slash phone. It was weird, but also it came
out at the point where you could already store your
music on a regular phone. But I don't know, I
thought it was cool and weird and it was so tiny.
Speaker 1 (16:42):
Yeah, it was so kind.
Speaker 2 (16:43):
Of love how small it is. It looks like a
chocolate bar. Yeah, yeah, it like swings open. I I
miss when we were doing weird shit with Fun. There
was that weird there were.
Speaker 1 (16:53):
Just everyone Everything just looks like this now.
Speaker 2 (16:56):
Yeah everything's a brick, yes, And it's a shame. It
feels like everything is just kind of normalizing around it
when we need more weird shit. But I guess we've
now seen what happens when you're actually, no, the iPhone
at wasn't weird enough. That's the problem exactly.
Speaker 4 (17:09):
I think that that's you know, when I talk about
those like in between phones, and I think what makes
it hard to kind of really create a lot of
demand for those phones is that they're not different enough.
Speaker 1 (17:20):
They're just in between, and they're not that different in price.
Speaker 4 (17:22):
And I think that's you know, a big part of
what can make it difficult to kind of sell somebody
on that it's not that much less expensive than the Pro,
but it's thinner, so like do you it's and.
Speaker 2 (17:32):
Also there's still like one thousand dollars. These are not.
Speaker 1 (17:35):
Cheap, No, not at all.
Speaker 4 (17:37):
No, it's meant to be like a Pro that's thinner,
I think, except you know, hardware is different obviously, and
it's pretty fast.
Speaker 2 (17:43):
I like it a lot. It's just I'm annoyed because
the camera is it's just shit enough. It's not that
it's bad, it's like just a little bit worse. Like
it can't really zoom. You have to digital zoom.
Speaker 4 (17:54):
Yeah, it doesn't have a lot of zoom even digitally,
it doesn't zoom in that far.
Speaker 2 (17:57):
Yeah, it's weird how little has happened with Apple in
the last year as well, because they tried the Vision
Pro and then they just went, uh.
Speaker 3 (18:04):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (18:05):
I don't know.
Speaker 4 (18:05):
I feel like the Vision Pro is one of those
things that it's gonna I don't know. I feel like
people were expecting it for a long time. The expectations
were really high, and I think for Apple there especially
high because they have this history of creating not necessarily
being the first, but being the first to get people
excited about a new category and show yeah yeah, and
(18:26):
like show how this should be done, like with the
smart watch, Like the Apple Watch was not the first
smart watch by any means, but it.
Speaker 1 (18:32):
Was the first one that got kind of popular or
popular enough.
Speaker 2 (18:35):
And they were smart enough to treat as a fashion item, which.
Speaker 4 (18:38):
Right, although that's not what it is at all now
and it's so funny to see how that's not that
they don't hear.
Speaker 2 (18:44):
Yes, the Multure was like a Vanity Vogue spread and
they were really there was a ten thousand dollars Amaze one.
Speaker 1 (18:50):
Yes, Oh my god, I repect that.
Speaker 2 (18:52):
But I love that they tried that and they just
walked away, just like, yeah, that's the sports thing now.
Speaker 4 (18:57):
And that's the thing is like, when you create a
new category, it's really hard to predict to what people
are actually going to use it for or what they're
going to gravitate towards.
Speaker 2 (19:06):
I think they were doing it just for the marketing.
I think it was literally just to get people to
write about it.
Speaker 1 (19:10):
But also smart watches were so ugly back then.
Speaker 4 (19:13):
That's the other thing, is that the reason why there
was the Pebble which I loved so much. Honestly, it looked, yes,
they are back, you know. The original Pebble watch didn't
look like anything special, but it was like yeah, yeah,
it was.
Speaker 1 (19:30):
Like funky and weird.
Speaker 4 (19:31):
It was like had a monochrome display and I just
loved And it's funny because I'm not usually this person
like that cares about customizing things. But you could customize
the watch face to be like literally anything you want
and talk about like weird gadgets like I feel like
that was also like not weird, but they had such
a fun community around it that would develop all these
custom watch faces and things like that, and it was
(19:53):
just really it was a cool little device.
Speaker 2 (20:09):
I feel like that era was great. I realized there
was a lot of fraud on Indiegogo and Kickstarter, but
there was also just weird shit. And now that's all
in China. Yeah, it's just GP you play with any
GPD stuff You ever seen them? No, they just make
gaming PCs, but the handhelds and they all cost they
have one. It's cool, but it's also your like, you
wacky sons of bitch. They're doing a handheld one where
(20:32):
you have an external battery. It's just like, sure, why not,
It's at that point why not? And they always make
four million dollars on Kickstarter. I hope all of that
money is not from criminal enterprises, and not suggesting it is,
but every time. But it's just I wish that there
was I'm sure that there are economic reasons. For sure.
Someone was to shoot me an email about this. I
wish we had more American firms willing to try share
(20:53):
because it's toll right now. It's boring out.
Speaker 4 (20:56):
Yeah, it's things have looked the same for a long time,
and you had like a brief moment in like the
mid twenty tens, like twenty sixteen, twenty seventeen, when Alexa
was just starting to become really popular, and then everyone thought.
Speaker 1 (21:09):
The smart home was going to take off in a
way that it never did.
Speaker 2 (21:11):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (21:12):
That yeah, that I'm thinking about like these.
Speaker 4 (21:13):
Different phases of like everyone's like, oh, this is gonna
be the next big thing after phones, and like we
still have not reached them.
Speaker 2 (21:19):
Well don't you haven't it? I mean to the point
of everything being the same as well, it's like you
buy you buy a Google device, it's called Gemini on it.
You buy an Apple device, it's called Apple Intelligence. You
immediately turn it off. It's just everything kind of feels
and looks the same. And yeah, you watch a commercial,
it's just more fucking Gemini. I don't know if you
use Gemen. I still don't know why Gemini three has
(21:41):
caused so much.
Speaker 4 (21:42):
It's the same, yeah, I mean it's like a sure,
it's like a better version of the same.
Speaker 1 (21:46):
I've used it here and there. You know, I don't.
Speaker 4 (21:49):
I use AI a lot in like my like personal
life or whatever, just to get things done. But it's
not like I don't think we're at the point yet where,
at least in my personal usage, I don't see that
much of a difference between chat, GPT and Gemini in
terms of what.
Speaker 1 (22:06):
I use them for.
Speaker 4 (22:07):
And I think it's that's one interesting thing I feel
like about AI compared to a lot of the other
products in our lives. Like when you have a phone
or a computer, you're like, okay, I'm a Mac or
a PC person, I'm iOS or Android. I feel like
with AI, people do use different models for different things.
I don't feel like people are loyal to just one
all the time.
Speaker 2 (22:24):
I also think that it's the you know how I
feel about AI, But it's also it's not clear what
makes one different from the other, like with A I
guess that's the case with phones as well, except phones
don't just burn money every time you turn them on.
But it's it's strange because this Gemini thing has really
taken off stock market. You got people right, and you
wrote this piece about like Google is the new leader
(22:46):
in AI. No, it's good, but it's just like why,
And I think it comes down to they mostly do
the same. It makes me think people gonna love this.
I think that like the only company that will even
do llm's long term is Google, and then they'll just
make it. They'll pull back the prices. But it's like, no,
one can really explain what the difference is, and thus
no one actually has any brand power.
Speaker 3 (23:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (23:08):
I think for Google it's an extension of like their
business model. Naturally, like people use Google Search to find
information and do things, and now people have started using
llms for that, so of course it makes sense for
them to do that, and they have an advantage in
that sense. I think Google has that advantage, right that
you have all these people that don't even know about
AI are just going to naturally start using their product
(23:30):
because it's Gemini and their models are now baked into
almost everything, right, AI mode, everything else, you know, Open AI.
I think their advantage has been that they were, you know,
chatchipt kind of became a household name pretty quickly, so
it's hard to kind of once any brand has that
(23:51):
kind of like has made that kind of impression, I
feel like it's hard to compete with that, or you know.
Speaker 1 (23:57):
I feel like that's why I see so.
Speaker 4 (23:58):
Much consolidation in the tech industry in particulars, because it's
really hard to be that third, right, you have like
one or two that are really big, and then being
that third is really challenging.
Speaker 2 (24:07):
It's also there's little I feel like there's not really
much reward for being first with this is what or
even being the household name. You just burn a bunch
of money. There was a story in the information that
came out this week who this will run now a
week after that, but where it's like open ay zone
code read because of Gemini. It's like, and you read
the article, it's really funny because there's a bit where
it's just like step one, make Chad GPT's ans as better,
(24:30):
Step two, make it able to do more, Step three
make people like it. It's like, what have you been doing?
What have you been doing the last six months? Honestly
that maybe what Gemini three is. It's just that they said,
I went what would make people use this more?
Speaker 4 (24:46):
Well, what's interesting is like you have kind of the
opposite Like open ai and Google are in the opposite scenarios.
They're like the inverse of each other. Like Google is
already playing in so many different areas from search to
owns to all these other products that shopping right, all
of these things that we do every day online, and
(25:06):
because they have that in place already, they can just
kind of sprinkle AI into things as they go along.
Open Ai had the opposite where they had this one
like breakout AI service and now they're you know, kind
of in this mode where they're like, hey, we're not
just this one thing, We're the next big Internet company. Right.
That's kind of what they're projecting based on all of
these areas that they're trying.
Speaker 1 (25:26):
To expand into. So I think it's kind of interesting.
Speaker 4 (25:29):
Back years ago, the New York Times had that piece
where Google was saying, we're in a code es GPT
and now open AI, according to that article, is you know,
facing that moment of its own.
Speaker 2 (25:40):
I just I also think that no one knows what
to do with large language, but I just don't. I
think at this point, so much money's going and you
can't get a straight answer about out of any of
them as to why you're using them, like in your
personal life. I imagine brainstorming stuff or like looking stuff up.
Speaker 1 (25:54):
Like right, like stuff that I would probably use Google
for exactly.
Speaker 2 (25:58):
Yeah. And it's like if this ends with just Google
managers to pull in the customers the open A I
had and then ends up probably making it putting some
of this away because it's too expensive, it's just like,
of course, if this is that actually is probably how
it ends with just like a large company destroying a
startup and nothing happening. I hope so the sooner the better.
(26:19):
I mean, it's it is three years and we've not
really had a proper use case beyond better search. It's strange,
it's everywhere.
Speaker 4 (26:28):
Yeah, I would agree in that, Like I do think
it's moving fast in terms of like it started out,
you know, the shift from just being able to answer
simple questions to being able to like reason and whatever
and think of these questions more.
Speaker 1 (26:45):
But to your point, that's not the use case. That's
the technology.
Speaker 2 (26:47):
It's also just it's also just more search, Like it
really is just knowledge search on instead of web search, right,
And sometimes it gets it well, I'm.
Speaker 4 (26:56):
Sure, I'm sure you've heard this term more times than
you would like. I even hate saying it because I
feel like it's become such a nonsense buzzword.
Speaker 1 (27:03):
You could probably guess what I'm going to say.
Speaker 4 (27:05):
But AI agents are supposedly going to be the next
step whenever this AI.
Speaker 2 (27:11):
I love this. Well, It's funny when you go and
look at the term agent, it just means like chat.
It really does just mean chato. Oh. Even you go
back to twenty twenty three. That's so open a I
defined it, yeah, but I loved I saw the statistics
just like eleven percent it was AI agents. It's like, no,
it wasn't. If you're just considering AI search agent, that's
just search engines and that. I keep reading about these
(27:34):
shopping integrations as well, but I can never make them
work because I come and try, I go and try
the Walmart with work. I managed to make it do
something in Canva right, but it's like I could have
just done that in Canva right.
Speaker 4 (27:47):
And that's the thing that's I think for me where
a lot of the skepticism comes in is that I
feel like we've been talking about these agents for years,
two points since chat gipt came out.
Speaker 1 (27:56):
They're like, this is what it's going to These things
are going to go and do stuff right.
Speaker 4 (27:59):
These things are going to do stuff for you, And
I do think that could be really helpful, honestly, But
I also have a lot of skepticism and concerns about,
like I don't know, handing over anything that I remotely
care about being done the right way to an AI agent,
Like I'm skeptical that people are going to trust it
enough to handle things well.
Speaker 2 (28:17):
It's also it doesn't seem to be able to do
it is my big thing. But even when you looked
at like the AI browsers from like, yeah, there's was
a comment from perplexity in Atlas from open ai or whatever.
When you look there's like this thing of the prompt
injection attacks. I don't know if you've seen this. Yes,
I could just get with just the website. If you
use them on a website, the website could attack you.
(28:38):
What I love, though, is the people who are innovating
appear to just be criminals. The people who are like
actually finding AI innovations are like Cambodian pig butchering operations.
North I was North Korean. I heard this story the
other day from a mate where it's North Korean people
are using like in like hacker groups are applying to
(29:00):
and getting American jobs. Oh really use and using deep
called deep fakes for the know your customer stuff and
like it's really fucking grow.
Speaker 4 (29:10):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (29:10):
It's just like no, everything I read is just like, man,
there is innovation crime. Well, actually, Robert Evans of cool
Zone Meter in twenty twenty four said that was the
actual innovation. We're walkingto a restaurant. He said, no, that's
where it is. It's like fraud, massive fraud.
Speaker 4 (29:25):
No, I mean, and I feel like anytime you have
a new technology, the bad guys always find a way
to make use of it before, you know, faster than
the good guys.
Speaker 2 (29:33):
Do you think they are the only ones? Yeah, they're
making I will say North Korean hacker groups, I'm pretty
sure are making more profit than open Ai, which is cool.
I think that that's cool. I think I think that
that's the world we deserve, honestly, and I think that's
where we're heading towards. Because when you create a technology
that you're not really sure what it does, of course
somebody malign is going to use it to your own point, right,
(29:55):
It's like, of course they're going to find a way
around it. All right, As we wrap up, is there
anything you're actually looking forward to in the tech industry though?
Is there anything you're anything on the on the horizon?
It's okay if there isn't.
Speaker 4 (30:07):
Honestly, there isn't really just one thing right now. I
feel like, you know, all of this AI stuff is
a little dizzying, and there's a lot of skepticism about it.
But I will say, as someone who's been covering this
industry for like a little more than ten years and
a lot of that just being the same, I feel
like it's been fun to write about something that it
does feel new, whether for better or for worse, it
(30:28):
is something that feels new and different. What am I
looking forward to? I want weird phones again, That's what
I'm looking forward to. I hope that phones get weird
to get.
Speaker 2 (30:36):
I want things with hand cranks some. I mean, that's
the play Date console, but I mean even the Nintendo
Switch To was kind of safe.
Speaker 3 (30:45):
It's good.
Speaker 4 (30:45):
I like it a lot, but it's weird for Nintendo
to do that. I feel like like doing.
Speaker 2 (30:51):
I love it.
Speaker 4 (30:52):
No, I have like almost every Nintendo console, but yeah,
I feel like coming out with more of the same
is not usually in their playbook. But the switch was
so successful that they kind of had to people. Could
you imagine if the Switch Too was entirely different and
wasn't a better version of the same console.
Speaker 2 (31:08):
I feel like I do wonder if we're going to
get a pushback on this eventually though, if people are
just gonna we need some weird shit again, that's what
That's what the energy I'm putting into the universe today.
Speaker 1 (31:18):
Yes, me too.
Speaker 2 (31:19):
So where do people find you?
Speaker 4 (31:20):
You can find me on I'm on X Blue Sky
and threads at least said Chico, and you can also
find my work of course at CNN dot.
Speaker 2 (31:28):
Com wonderful, and you can find me at Better Offline
dot com. Subscribe to the newsletter, email me on my
web verse. Thank you for listening, Love you.
Speaker 3 (31:35):
All, Thank you for listening to Better Offline.
Speaker 5 (31:46):
The editor and composer of the Better Offline theme song
is Metasowski. You can check out more of his music
and audio projects at Matasowski dot com, M A T
T O S O W s ki dot com. You
can email me at easy at Better Offline dot com,
or visit Better Offline dot com to find more podcast
links and of course, my newsletter. I also really recommend
(32:08):
you go to chat dot where'soead dot at to visit
the discord, and go to our slash Better Offline to
check out I'll Reddit.
Speaker 2 (32:14):
Thank you so much for listening.
Speaker 3 (32:17):
Better Offline is a production of cool Zone Media.
Speaker 5 (32:19):
For more from cool Zone Media, visit our website cool
Zonemedia dot com or check us out on the iHeartRadio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Host
Ed Zitron
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