Marc Spears | Between Bites Podcast with Nina Compton & Larry Miller S2E5

On episode five of the Between Bites podcast, Nina Compton and Larry Miller are joined by Marc Spears, senior NBA writer for ESPN and Andscape and the executive producer of The Conversations Project on Hulu.

Marc talks about his desire to be an NBA star and how a junior high career day helped shift his perspective and define his path into journalism. The 2023 Curt Gowdy Media Award winner discusses his Naismith Memorial Basketball Hall of Fame honor, his love of New Orleans and some of the highs and lows of the sports journalism world.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:07):
Pro would.

Speaker 2 (00:13):
Hello again season two between bites with NNA Company and
Larry Miller. We're brought to you by Caesar's New Orleans
and today we are joined by everyone's favorite writer, Mark Spearsy.

Speaker 3 (00:28):
Hey, Welcome, Welcome.

Speaker 2 (00:30):
I feel like saying welcome home because it feels like
New Orleans is home to you.

Speaker 1 (00:36):
It is definitely my second home. I could say choppatolists
and know how to get down. But my mom has
connected me to this city since I was a little boy.

Speaker 4 (00:48):
So tell us about that.

Speaker 5 (00:51):
You know, my mom's from uh the Seventh.

Speaker 1 (00:54):
War and uh my late uncle, uh Giller, I mean
we call him squeak Squeak our Mont, Joe Armont. They
went to Carver High School. He always said, we didn't
go to Harvard. We went to call every time to
make a mistake on something. But you know, my mom

(01:14):
was like a book kids, smart kid, wanted to be
a nurse and she actually was trying to go to
nursing school. She was like a straight a student high school.
And this is a deep story, so I don't know
I should be started with this.

Speaker 4 (01:30):
Yeah, please, She.

Speaker 1 (01:33):
Went with the you know, the priest of her Catholic school.

Speaker 5 (01:39):
I mean church.

Speaker 1 (01:39):
And he's like, well, I got this nice, young, bright
lady that we want to bring into the Catholic hospital
getting to learn to be a nurse.

Speaker 5 (01:50):
And they basically this nun said no because she was black.

Speaker 1 (01:57):
Hospital, right, they said no in a US in late fifties,
early sixties, early sixties. So she had a cousin in
Saint Louis who basically was like, hey, there's a black
nursing school here.

Speaker 5 (02:13):
You could come to school here.

Speaker 1 (02:15):
So she left New Orleans for the first time in
her life, went to this nursing school called Homer G.
Phillips Legendary Black Nursing School. And in Saint Louis, father
passes away while she's there, so it's tough, but she
meets my dad, has me graduates from the nursing school.
And the way we ended up ended up going to

(02:36):
the Bay Area was she got a job at Stanford Hospital.

Speaker 5 (02:38):
So that's how we end up in the Bay Area.
But every summer, every summer I'm in New Orleans. I'm
in New Orleans. I mean gunboat.

Speaker 3 (02:45):
I was going to say, how much weight did you
put on in the you know?

Speaker 5 (02:48):
Coming here? It was great because my sister.

Speaker 1 (02:51):
And I didn't have any family where we lived, so
we yearned for these summers coming to New Orleans and
hanging out at Bunny Friend Park and getting the huck
of pucks and going to the little Corner store and
just just being a part of family right and the
family reunions we had. I remember going to the nineteen
eighty four World Festival was here. But in two thousand

(03:15):
and two, my dad retired and he's like, hey, let's
move back to New Orleans.

Speaker 5 (03:21):
I'm I'm, you know, out of college. I'm doing my
own thing.

Speaker 1 (03:23):
By then, my sister went to Diller and so they
moved back here. And my mom then, you know, like
big time nurse, extraordinary. She gets offered this job at
this hospital in New Orleans, and she takes the job.

Speaker 5 (03:41):
She's a big time executive.

Speaker 1 (03:42):
All of a sudden, she goes into this office and
it looks kind of feels familiar, and she doesn't understand
why it feels familiar, and she starts asking a lady
who hired her, like, okay, tell.

Speaker 5 (03:55):
Us tell me about this room. Something about this room.

Speaker 1 (03:57):
She's like, oh yeah, this this is used to be
like this Catholic church and none. This was her office
and she realized that, like this was the same office
she got down at eighteen, go to nursing school, and.

Speaker 5 (04:12):
Now this is her office.

Speaker 3 (04:13):
That's pretty cool.

Speaker 1 (04:15):
And she ends up like getting on her knees when
the lady left the room, broke down crying.

Speaker 5 (04:19):
Can you believe this?

Speaker 1 (04:20):
Like, after all these years she comes back and she
gets the office in the room she got turned down
as a as a team that's wild.

Speaker 4 (04:29):
But always comes around.

Speaker 2 (04:31):
I'd have found that none.

Speaker 3 (04:34):
Yeah, well I know.

Speaker 5 (04:39):
She was going at that time.

Speaker 2 (04:41):
So growing up, did you have any idea? Obviously probably
loved sports, Yeah, everybody did growing up. But when did
you decide that it was something that maybe I want
to go into journalists?

Speaker 5 (04:53):
Seventh grade? Wow, I knew. When did you know you
want to be a chef? What agent?

Speaker 4 (05:00):
Sixteen seventeen?

Speaker 5 (05:01):
I knew in the seventh grade.

Speaker 1 (05:03):
I actually as a kid, I read Sports Illustrated, Like
I begged my dad to give me a subscription. I
read the Santes Mercury News every day. I watched There
was no ESPN at the time, so I'm watching the
late sports news every you know, consuming everything, And I
saw a stat in Sports Illustrate because I wanted to

(05:24):
play in the NBA. I knew I was going to
be a basketball star, right, but I was a realistic kid.
And the stat said less than two percent of all
college basketball players make it to the NBA.

Speaker 5 (05:36):
And that struck a chord with me. That hit me.
I'm like, dang, it's that tough.

Speaker 1 (05:41):
Yeah, only two percent make it, like and I was
like stats were real to me, Like really, I'm.

Speaker 5 (05:47):
Like, I'm good, but I want to be that good, right.

Speaker 3 (05:51):
Yeah, it was cool.

Speaker 1 (05:52):
And so there was a career day at my junior high,
someone don Junior High in San Jose, and I would like,
this is just a quick side note. If there was
a way that I could help build a program to
get career days in every public school in the country,
every urban school in the country, I would love to
do that because that changed my life. Yeah, a guy

(06:13):
from the Golden State Warriors came San Jose's like forty
minutes from Oakland when he must have been.

Speaker 5 (06:20):
Dating one of my teachers.

Speaker 1 (06:21):
I don't know why here, right, but he came and
talk to us. I'm like, I'm gonna get some free tickets.
I'm gonna get a T shirt or something. He ain't
give us nothing, but he gave us knowledge, and for
some reason he said to me and everybody in this session,
he said to me, what do you want to do
when you grow up? I'm gonna play for y'all. I
want to play for you guys. I was so excited.

(06:43):
And he goes, well, what if you get hurt? What
if you know you can't play forever? What if you
play five years? And I was like, that stat hit
me that I read. I'm like, less than two percent.
I'm like, oh man. He goes, well, let me give
you some advice. If you don't not sure what you
want to do, if you can combine what you'd love

(07:03):
most in life with what you do best in school,
you'll find a career you could be happy with every day.

Speaker 5 (07:10):
Perhaps the best advice I've got in my life.

Speaker 1 (07:12):
Yeah, told me that in the seventh grade. So the
next day I was in this program for like creative
learning called Horizons, and my teacher Ms. Thompson says, all right,
you guys got to write a letter to somebody in
a field that you're interested in. So I wrote this
guy from the Sounds in Mercury News by the name
of Mark Purty.

Speaker 5 (07:33):
It's legendary sports.

Speaker 1 (07:34):
Comments, and he wrote me back basically tell me everything
I needed to do from seventh grade through college.

Speaker 5 (07:43):
To be a sports writer.

Speaker 4 (07:44):
Wow.

Speaker 1 (07:45):
And he was like, write on the school paper or
write on the school yearbook in junior high. So I
wrote on the school paper immediately in the seventh grade.
My pen name is Mark J.

Speaker 5 (07:56):
Spears.

Speaker 1 (07:57):
That was the seventh grader's decision that I still use. Well,
it's important I picked up the seventh grade. You were
fortunate enough. Yeah, you were fortunate enough to nail it
at uncovered a flag eighth grade flag football team. So
when people say, hell, long you've been covering team seventh grade,
he said, when you get to college, you know, take
all the typing classes you have, can take top English

(08:22):
and school paper, yearbook.

Speaker 5 (08:23):
I did all those things.

Speaker 1 (08:25):
Then he said in college school paper, get as many
internships as possible.

Speaker 5 (08:30):
I did that.

Speaker 1 (08:31):
So by the time I graduated from college, my college basketball.

Speaker 5 (08:34):
Career was not extraordinary.

Speaker 1 (08:37):
I wasn't among the two percent, but I felt like
a first round pick and turn of journal journalism because
I was ahead of everybody else. I had three internships.
I had wrote on the school paper. I wrote for
the Sounds and Murpury News covering high school basketball stories
as like making getting paid for a while, I was ahead.

Speaker 5 (08:56):
I was ahead of everybody.

Speaker 1 (08:58):
And you know, so my first job, even though it
wasn't paid a lot, I was covering to University Arkansas
football and basketball team. Usually you get it's making nineteen
thousand before taxes, so I want to get paid nothing.
But I was covering that sec which people here know
is a big deal. So you know, I got into
the journalism world way ahead of the game.

Speaker 2 (09:19):
I mean that's exciting, lucky. And it has to do
with the skill you had. Obviously, as you're going through
doing the internships in college while you're also taking your
journalism classes, was there a difference? Could you see that
they were actually together or did you Were you able

(09:40):
to see that this is the real world and this
is the theory that I'm learning here in school?

Speaker 5 (09:46):
Well, it was certainly a challenge. I mean, like.

Speaker 1 (09:50):
The school learning was really good. It was the school
papers were all different, and junior college paper was okay.
I went to HBCU called University DC. Their paper was terrible,
being honest. Then I went to Santos State was excellent.
But I think the thing that I did was I
wanted it bad. I went to the San Jose Metro

(10:11):
after my sophomore year. It's a weekly newspaper. I said, hey,
you guys don't have any sports stories. Can I entern
for free for the summer. You have to pay me anything.
I just want to write sports stories for you during
the summer because you guys don't have any sports stories
weekly newspaper in San Jose. They're like, yes, that was
my first internship, and so like when I saw these

(10:33):
stories about you have to get paid as it intern,
why you weren't about getting paid, good experience, get your
foot in the door.

Speaker 5 (10:39):
Worry about that later, that first one.

Speaker 1 (10:41):
And so then I also joined the National Association of
Black Journalist, which was super key for me because that
next year I applied for like twenty internships and everybody
said no, Wow, But I got one through the National
Association of Black Journalists. It must have been the last straw,
cause I got set to Grand Rapids, Michigan. But I

(11:04):
covered a young wrote a story about a young boxer
by the name of Floyd Mayweather Junior.

Speaker 5 (11:08):
But the time was eighteen.

Speaker 1 (11:10):
Wow, I got to cover a Chicago Cubs game. I
got to go to a Detroit Lions practice. I got
to cover some major minor league baseball. So now after
I leave that and the National Association of Black Journalists
flew me to their convention, had me right on the
convention paper. Now I'm like big time after that, and
that was the only internship I had offered.

Speaker 5 (11:30):
Wow, graduate from Santos State.

Speaker 1 (11:33):
Now the LA Times, Washington Post, Dallas Morning News, San
Franchischool Chronicle, or going into Portland. Now all of a sudden,
they want me. Nobody wanted me a year ago one place.
So I think it was because I was aggressive, you know,
because I was creative, Like I thought, like I think

(11:53):
about it now, like what made me just go into
this newspaper say can I help for free? And I
just wanted it bad. I wanted to be this bad
and I had to figure out a way to make away.
So I kind of laugh at athletes now who want
advice from me, and they're like, well, I don't have
time to be an intern. Bro. I was an intern

(12:16):
and I wrote free lance, right, and internships like I'm
not trying to hear that, right, Like you don't want
it that bad? Like I wanted it bad and I
knew ill it was gonna be one of the two percent.
But the way I looked at it was like, if
I can't play in the NBA, if I can't play
in the NFL, if I can't play Major League Baseball,
next best thing is to be there and.

Speaker 4 (12:37):
Not get hurt.

Speaker 6 (12:38):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I think that's a that's a very
important thing that we don't discuss, is what if you
don't make it because there's so many people that make
it to the league and then they're on the bench,
they get injured, and.

Speaker 4 (12:55):
They never play. Yeah, and then what do you do?

Speaker 5 (12:57):
And I say, nothing is guaranteed. No matter what your pick.

Speaker 6 (13:00):
Nothing is guaranteed. And also what is your There's always
an end to it. It's what's the end game?

Speaker 1 (13:07):
You think they're going to play the fifty The average
career is four years, So even if you do that, yeah,
maybe twenty six.

Speaker 6 (13:15):
It's another example for us because on everybody's Lebron and
Kobe that.

Speaker 5 (13:19):
That's the two.

Speaker 4 (13:21):
Yes, exactly.

Speaker 6 (13:22):
So I think that then needs to be more of
a discussion of where you investing your money, how are
you spending your money, how are you.

Speaker 4 (13:29):
Because any day your career.

Speaker 1 (13:32):
Can be over and I think these guys, this generation
is so much smarter, Like this is my twenty fifty
year covering NBA.

Speaker 4 (13:39):
Wow.

Speaker 1 (13:41):
But I remember year one it was mostly guys that
were coming from tough homes. You know, a lot of
them may not had a had a father figure in
their life. And Lamborghinis, you know by mama house. Yeah,
stand and I saw a podcast recently, were paying me

(14:01):
to hear this. But I think the generation twenty years ago,
it was like it wasn't about saving money to get
generational wealth.

Speaker 5 (14:11):
It was like, I promise mom, I'm gonna get her house. Right.

Speaker 1 (14:14):
So now instead of having generational wealth, you're buying your
mama house, you're buying these cars, five six, seven cars.

Speaker 5 (14:21):
You don't need to drive one at a time. Right.

Speaker 1 (14:24):
But these guys now usually aren't first generation college they're
like maybe thirds right right. Their agents are being better
about getting them financial help.

Speaker 5 (14:36):
So I don't see.

Speaker 1 (14:37):
I think the good thing is now they're like a
lot of these dudes ain't hard luck stories.

Speaker 5 (14:42):
That I'm seeing now. These kids are much more educated.

Speaker 1 (14:45):
And you know, you guys around the Pelicans a little bit,
they don't seem like some they seem like they got
their lives together, right, right, And.

Speaker 6 (14:52):
I think the biggest thing for me, I'm seeing a
lot of people dabble into the wine industry.

Speaker 4 (14:58):
So you look at Dwayne Wade.

Speaker 6 (14:59):
Look at Jim mcculluen, Carmelo, Anthony, all these people are
doing things that are.

Speaker 1 (15:05):
Can I tell you something about Carmelo, Tell me about it.
I'm the reason why he drinks wine.

Speaker 3 (15:09):
Hello, this is important.

Speaker 1 (15:12):
And he could hear me say this when Carmelo was
in Denvor. I guess we could tell the truth now fast,
all right. I used because I was younger than we're
a few years removed. But he used to get into
the clubs and he used to be walking around holding
a whole bottle.

Speaker 5 (15:29):
Yeah, like this. But I was always drinking wine.

Speaker 1 (15:35):
So I help a friend of mine get a job
with the Nuggets as basically the babysitter for all the players.

Speaker 5 (15:41):
I'm sure they didn't get in trouble.

Speaker 1 (15:43):
And he drank wine because I drank wine, and he
fell in love with wine because of me. I got
a wine fridge. He got a wine fridge right twenty
years ago. So one day Mellow kept seeing him drink
wine at their dinners. He's like man, what you're drinking
that stuff? Man, that grape juice stuff.

Speaker 5 (16:00):
And he's like.

Speaker 1 (16:01):
Well, try it, right, you keep talking about it. Have
you had it? No, he tried it and fell in
love with it. So I feel like my influence on
my friend influenced Carmelo and he still hasn't sent me
a bottle.

Speaker 2 (16:16):
Come on, mellow, step up, if you're listening, If you are,
yes now, it could also be, as you were telling
that story, there are some parallels between the not being
offered internships and being where you are now to your
mother not getting that job at the Catholic hospital, coming

(16:38):
back and being the boss now that that has to
be kind of a neat feeling. Now, maybe it's just
that you've known all along inside of you that you
had it and you just had to get it in
front of the right people to be picked up and
progress in your career. But you have also reached a
level in sports journalism that is, of all the people

(17:04):
to have this kind of longevity through all the tumultuous
times that media has gone through over the last ten years.
What has that been like for you seeing the old
days of a typewriter. But also now you can basically
look at your phone and it knows what you're thinking.

Speaker 5 (17:24):
I mean, I made and I'm not flexing. I'm just
answering your question.

Speaker 1 (17:28):
Yeah, I made the Naseant Memorial Basketball Hall of Fame
as a writer. That's nuts, as a writer, not as
a player. I never made one basket in the NBA.
And I joke with Steph Curry a couple of weeks ago,
I said, I made the Hall of Fay before you did,
but like to make it as a writer, to make

(17:50):
it because of my brain, because of my writing contributions.
Like I still haven't had a moment because it's happened
in August to kind to like sit and reflect on
it and like what it actually means to have your
name in this the greatest basketball building right forever.

Speaker 4 (18:07):
Like it's in there.

Speaker 5 (18:10):
I saw it.

Speaker 1 (18:10):
I took a picture of it my mom, Like it's
it's in there, and it's it's.

Speaker 5 (18:16):
Beautiful to me.

Speaker 1 (18:17):
Like anytime I hear somebody say hall of Famer like that,
that just means something really special to me. And you
know that the industry has changed so much, and I think,
like you know, the legendary Duct Tatum is here. We
worked in newspapers together, and I saw it about twenty
years ago that it was changing. Like I was at

(18:38):
the Denver Post and I saw it was a two
paper town that like one of the papers was going
to survive. Now one of the papers has survived, but
it's barely surviving. Then I went to the Boston Globe,
and I remember my dad like, you're leaving the Boston
Globe to go to a Yahoo, Like what are you doing?

Speaker 5 (19:01):
Like because he you know that generation the Boston Globe.

Speaker 3 (19:05):
That big boys, that was a serious.

Speaker 1 (19:08):
Bostlo, New York Times, Washington Post like that's the three right,
And I'm at the Boston Globe, And he was like
confused by it, but he didn't understand how the industry
was changing. And so I was able to get into
the internet space. Like looking back, and I love to
hear it off when Doug thinks about this, The biggest
mistake the newspapers made was not monetizing it in the

(19:30):
beginning when the internet boom started, Like they didn't figure
it out and they should. All they had to do,
I think was charged like ten dollars a month, right,
you know, got people like used to paying ten dollars
a month to reading it. Online or even five dollars
and just think about how much money they would be
making it.

Speaker 5 (19:50):
And it just ended up.

Speaker 1 (19:51):
They just didn't have the great foresight on it and
destroyed the newspaper industry.

Speaker 5 (19:56):
And now the internet like all newspapers leading online.

Speaker 4 (20:01):
Everything's one.

Speaker 5 (20:02):
I love grabbing newspapers when I can find.

Speaker 4 (20:04):
Them, So my morning is it can be hectic.

Speaker 6 (20:11):
And I told Larry one of my goals was to
get the New York Times delivered to the house. He's like,
why I just read read on your phone. I said no,
because there's just something about I think because a lot
of people get I know, but I'm just saying for
me to sit down and take the time.

Speaker 3 (20:30):
Your goal is to take the time, to take the.

Speaker 6 (20:32):
Time to slow down my morning, sit outside and read
the New York Times.

Speaker 4 (20:37):
And Larry's like, read on your phone. I said, it's
not the same it's not the same time.

Speaker 1 (20:42):
You know, I'm going to get a San Francisco Chronicle
subscription at home now because I've been debating it, but
I feel like I'm half the time I'm not there
is gonna pile up.

Speaker 4 (20:51):
That's okay, I mean that happened to me where you know,
I'll be trappling. I'll come back and it all stacked up.

Speaker 2 (20:57):
But I but when you're home, it's something about it.
There's this sound.

Speaker 3 (21:03):
There's a sound of feeling.

Speaker 2 (21:05):
There's a feeling, there's a lot of I think, do
you feel like.

Speaker 5 (21:09):
You read more? Yeah, for sure than if you looked
on your phone.

Speaker 4 (21:12):
Yeah, because it's just soly, just just to skim through.

Speaker 6 (21:15):
But for me, I'm like, I was reading about what
was the We have a fun fact where I'm like, oh,
didn't because they have like the facts of interest and
I'd read all these things and he's like, oh, I
didn't know that that happened. And it's we did the
real estate thing where we play the game.

Speaker 3 (21:32):
Of what you can get for what amount of money?

Speaker 6 (21:35):
So it would be like different states like U this
Sunday was Tennessee, upstate New York. And then I think
what can you get for one point eight million? So
what can you get for one point eight million in
Upstate New York? And you'd be like, you know, four
to four on one point two acre? And I'm like, nope,

(21:56):
you can get a to two.

Speaker 4 (21:57):
You know, we just go down the line. It's kind
of fun because it's it's interaction.

Speaker 5 (22:02):
You know, I always laugh at those things.

Speaker 1 (22:03):
Is Yeah, it might be cheaper to live in Mississippi,
but then you still gotta live in Mississippi to.

Speaker 5 (22:11):
Find Yeah, yeah, I love in my area. Man.

Speaker 2 (22:15):
We want a farm or a camp out there.

Speaker 4 (22:17):
Yeah.

Speaker 6 (22:18):
Every time we go to the country, he's just like,
think about his nice little country home and we'll have
a camp and we can go fishing and hunting.

Speaker 4 (22:25):
And said, Larry, what are we gonna find that.

Speaker 2 (22:29):
The so you are a young hot shot. No, no, no,
this is back. Then we're going to.

Speaker 5 (22:38):
Take that comp and his baby face.

Speaker 2 (22:39):
You decide you want to go to graduate school?

Speaker 3 (22:42):
How did that? How did that come about?

Speaker 2 (22:43):
Did you feel like he needed to go or it
was suggested to you or is something you want?

Speaker 1 (22:49):
Well, my sister and my mom have master's degrees, so
that was part of it.

Speaker 5 (22:53):
Like this, you know, stay alongside them. They wouldn't have
one up on me.

Speaker 1 (23:01):
But there was a coach from the Nugget years ago
who had a great saying and I love it. You
guys can steal it if you like it's called. He
used to say, Oh, name's Jeff Bazdelic, And he said,
I'm always trying to stay two steps.

Speaker 5 (23:11):
Ahead of the posse. And I love that.

Speaker 1 (23:16):
I don't know why that saying captured me, and that's
always stayed two steps ahead of the posse.

Speaker 5 (23:22):
And so.

Speaker 1 (23:24):
Like ESPN pays for me to go to school, it's free,
thank you, like they paid for it. And I've been
wanting to go to grad school. And I always felt
like there were some of my colleagues who were getting
jobs with NBA teams, front office jobs, right, And I

(23:45):
always felt like having that master's feather in your cap
could help, you know, because I was I thought about
like some people's like, man, you're the fact that you
know the media game but you know basketball the way
you can't could be very valuable to a team. I mean,
so I thought maybe if I got my master that
could help in that regard.

Speaker 5 (24:05):
The more realistic thing in my mind was.

Speaker 1 (24:09):
At some point, they're going to tap me on the
shoulder and maybe say, hey, we don't want you to
write anymore.

Speaker 5 (24:14):
But so what am I going to do?

Speaker 1 (24:17):
And I thought like one of the few professions that
as you get older, being a chef could be one
of them where you're more respected as you get older, right,
is teaching so if I got my masters, I could
teach on the college level. And so I looked at
different schools, and I've always loved LSU Louisiana Louisiana State University,

(24:43):
Like I kind of tapped into that and they kind
of recruited me back. It kind of a surprising like
we want you, we want you to you know, to
have this connection. We want you to be And I
think there's sports business, like a lot of my journalism
friends went and got their masters, and journalism for what
you could teach the class, right, like getting you getting

(25:05):
your master's and cooking, like what you should.

Speaker 5 (25:09):
Teach the class, right. I don't need to learn more
about journalism. I want to learn, but we talk a
lot about sports business. I want.

Speaker 1 (25:15):
So I got my LSU had a great sports business
management program, applied for that guy in and it's two
years and I got my masters in twenty nineteen.

Speaker 2 (25:27):
Do you were there things that you got to graduate
school and even having worked on the journalism side of
sports that you're that were eye opening that you learn
there or you think it just kind of.

Speaker 1 (25:40):
Just accentuated, like my open my brain up to like now,
I like the way I talk about this business and
sports is different the way I see it. Like when
you I tell people all the time, like, Okay, if
they're paying sign fifty million.

Speaker 5 (25:55):
Dollars, what are they making? Right?

Speaker 1 (25:58):
You don't pay somebody that much unless you're making money
off of them, right, I don't do that. Like I'm
like pay attention when you go into the Smoothie King Center, right,
all the different advertising. Like someone told me that the
USC football coach, I think it makes around ten million dollars.
They pay him off the parking at the stadium because

(26:20):
the place seats like one hundred thousand people, like twenty
five thousand parking spots fifty bucks a pop. That's not
VIP parking via park is probably two hundred. Like they
could pay his salary just off the parking. You know,
sports is a major, big business, And so I just
wanted to just strengthen. I knew a lot of it already,
but it just helped me strengthen in that regard and

(26:42):
kind of understand.

Speaker 5 (26:43):
Things even on a higher level. And so I have
San Jose State and.

Speaker 1 (26:49):
I got my doctorate honorary doctor from Langston University and
Arizona State. Some schools have been like recruiting me to
teach there now the States, trying to be like putting that.
Ay man, you're Alma minor, you know, LSU didn't ask me,
but yeah, yeah, but I'm glad I did it. It

(27:11):
was it was actually really funny today. I went to
the I did it online, but myself, my wife and
my mom we went to the graduation twenty nineteen before
the pandemic, right, so it was probably like the last
graduation before the pandemic. My mom has a handicapped parking spot,
so we parked right outside Tiger Stadium.

Speaker 5 (27:31):
Right. This guy.

Speaker 1 (27:34):
And he's gonna be I hope he doesn't hear this
because I forgot his name. But he's an amazing guy.

Speaker 5 (27:38):
He said.

Speaker 1 (27:38):
I met him when the All Star Game was in
New Orance, so it was really nice to him. And
he was working and with a football team. He's like, man,
congratulations I heard your graduate. I'm like, yeah, thanks, man.
You want to take pictures in the locker room. I'm
like yeah, so I'm my cap and gown on. He
brought me into the locker room. There were right recruits there.
They're probably in the NFL. And I took a picture

(27:58):
in the locker room, up and down these amazing pictures
in the football locker room.

Speaker 5 (28:03):
He goes, oh, you're not going to hit the wind
bar and go on the field.

Speaker 3 (28:08):
Hello, sure, yeah, right, So that I went and.

Speaker 5 (28:12):
Slapped the wind bar, went on the field.

Speaker 1 (28:14):
I'm gonna take tiger Sta by myself in my cap,
and like, I gotta get this dude's name because I
think he actually works for us. Now I own like
the biggest bottle one. So we take these pictures. We
come back inside and then it's coach. Oh oh, charm
was there, so we meet him. He didn't know who

(28:34):
I was, but I took a picture with him and
my mom's first time ever heard her lie. She goes, Coach, I.

Speaker 5 (28:43):
Pray for you, Like why you lie? You do not fall?
I do? You don't watch the game? She might watch
the women's team down like that she is not watching.
I don't know. She told the man that.

Speaker 1 (28:58):
Next thing, you know, he put his arm around her,
just talking about Joe Holstein.

Speaker 5 (29:02):
They walking on the field having this conversation about religion.
I like, I gotta go graduate. I had to leave
them go into the graduation line.

Speaker 1 (29:12):
Man.

Speaker 3 (29:12):
That's awesome. That's a good story.

Speaker 4 (29:16):
That is good.

Speaker 2 (29:19):
Yeah, every game that was before the last National championship.

Speaker 3 (29:25):
She should have gotten a ring. It's all I'm saying.

Speaker 5 (29:27):
I think it was okay a couple of months.

Speaker 3 (29:30):
She needs to she should have been.

Speaker 2 (29:33):
Hey, that's the only reason there were no Yeah, yeah,
there were no other moms in Division one praying out
there throughout your career, obviously you've gotten to meet some
really interesting people and.

Speaker 3 (29:47):
Some who were duds.

Speaker 2 (29:48):
Who's the worst person to interview or try and pull
anybody out of.

Speaker 5 (29:54):
The worst first, I gotta put somebody out there.

Speaker 2 (29:58):
I mean, you can't do that, say Danny.

Speaker 5 (30:01):
I love Danny, but he looked like he was the toughest.

Speaker 3 (30:06):
Interviewing as a player.

Speaker 5 (30:07):
It seems like you know who.

Speaker 1 (30:09):
I thought was a jerk and he ended up being
a good friend of mine with Kobe Bryant. Really but
Kobe Bryant and this has a Katrina connection to it,
So I'll tell her to try to be quick on
this story. Kobe, and I'm not no rush. I don't
know how long these podcasts are. I have nothing else
to do for a while. But Kobe Afro Kobe was

(30:30):
like a jerk, right, God rest his soul I'm gonna
tell this whole story.

Speaker 5 (30:35):
Don't make sense.

Speaker 1 (30:38):
He had the situation in Colorado, we don't have to
relive that. And I had to do a story on him.
I was in Denver, obviously it happened in Colorado, and
I went to interview him, and he didn't He kind
of dodged the questions. A day before that game back
in Denver took place, and I was like, man, I
just had a couple of questions and he took off
and slammed the door in my face.

Speaker 5 (30:59):
I just wrote it. That's what happened.

Speaker 1 (31:01):
When I asked a question, he refused to answer and
slammed the door, right, And so I was just like, man,
this dude's pompous Eric guy.

Speaker 5 (31:10):
Blah blah blah.

Speaker 1 (31:12):
Fast forward to after Katrina. They had a charity game
for Katrina in Houston. All the NBA stars came out,
like Lebron, Mellow, Dwayne Wade, Shaq Iverson, Kobe, Lebron, everybody
was there. I get a tap on my shoulder at
the game, and I'm like a little emotional because I

(31:36):
went to this convention center in Houston and saw like
and somebody listening to this might have been involved in
this a thousand mats with people just had their belonging
next to the mats that were displaced, and my parents
and a couple of my other family members got displaced
to Dallas for like six months before they came back.

(31:59):
So I was like pretty emotional at this game. It
was a fundraiser game. Somebody tsked me on the shoulder.
I turned around as Kobe, how's your family doing. I'm like,
excuse me. He goes, How's how's your mom and dad doing?
How's your family doing? I'm like, how you know about that?
Kind of looked at me like, how's your mom and
dad doing?

Speaker 5 (32:19):
Man?

Speaker 1 (32:20):
So I started talking to him about it, telling him
what was going on. They like genuinely cared. It was
like one of the few there's this old thing. Somebody
told me, He's like, you're waiting for a hug from
an NBA player, You're wasting your time. Like he like
basically like genuinely cared about my family and would continue
to ask me about him and then me.

Speaker 5 (32:40):
You know, you obviously had a report on him.

Speaker 1 (32:43):
But we built a nice little bond friendship, respectful working
relationship where I still asked some tough questions.

Speaker 5 (32:51):
And he expected me to. He was a pro like that.

Speaker 1 (32:56):
He got mad at me for some of these questions
I asked sometimes, but he respected me doing my job
and he used to always take care of me, like
give me special time interviews and stuff like that. One
time was real funny was he had left the Adidas
go to Nike and I showed up the interview him
in all Adida sweats and Adidas shoes, a whole lot

(33:18):
of nice sweatsuit. See me, I'm a tall, big guy,
three xlt. It fit me good. I didn't have a
lot of sweatsuits that fit me good. He's like, I
ain't doing an interview. I'm like, what do you mean?
He goes, I'm not doing it?

Speaker 5 (33:31):
Why? Like what you got on?

Speaker 4 (33:32):
Man?

Speaker 5 (33:33):
While you disrespected me like that, I said, what do
you want me to do? Get NECKI no, this is
what you're gonna do. And I think he was tested too.

Speaker 1 (33:41):
You're gonna go home, you're gonna throw it away. You're
gonna film that you've thrown this away and send me
the video. If you agree to that, I'll do the interview.
And I was like all right, and I did it,
and I think he like, all right.

Speaker 5 (33:55):
He's cool.

Speaker 4 (33:57):
That was the circle of trust that he lets you into.

Speaker 1 (34:00):
Yeah, and then after that, I mean, we built a
great bond. And I used to email him and say, Hey,
I'm coming to town. I need some time with you,
and he always would give me time. And I remember
Spike Lee did a documentary on him, and I actually
had a one on one conversation with Kobe in the
training room, which I'd never been in a training room
until he let me in. And I wish I could

(34:21):
get that video from Spike Lee to hear it out there.
I love to get that conversation. But I was kind
of telling him that I was trying to leave Yahoo
and get somewhere else, and because he asked me now,
because I was telling him, he was like, something seems
off about you, right. So I get to another the
job and I sent him an email telling him thank you. Hey,

(34:42):
I got this new job, and he's like, you're going
to be amazing.

Speaker 5 (34:44):
Let me know what you need. So I have this video.

Speaker 1 (34:48):
It's really really special to me where he got his
jersey retired, and this tells you about his person he is.
He's walking out and he sees me out the corner
in his eye go big Spears. Big Spears comes back,
gives me a hug and goes man, really proud of you, man,
you're doing a great job. The ESPN and Undefeated and

(35:09):
Escape and all that, well Escape it was called undefeated
at the time, Like, dude, this is your day.

Speaker 5 (35:14):
Why are you talking about me? He got your jersey retired.
This is your day. But that was the kind of
guy he was.

Speaker 1 (35:20):
And that was the last conversation we had, and somebody
videotaped it and I have the video and I'm still
you know, it's kind of still hard for me to watch,
you know, videos of him, and because I think he
would have made this world so much a better place
than it is right now.

Speaker 5 (35:38):
He had a ali kind of impact, the.

Speaker 1 (35:40):
Payley impact, where he's of a mixed his children of
mixed race.

Speaker 5 (35:45):
So he was doing stuff and a lot of books.

Speaker 1 (35:48):
He wrote a book about superheroes that world mixed race,
like who does that?

Speaker 5 (35:52):
Right?

Speaker 1 (35:52):
And he won an award for an animation he did
deer Basketball. I mean, he was somebody that could have
been like, hey, this is wrong, this isn't good, and
people that might have had a stone heart might have
listened to him. And so I'm painful to note not
only what happened to him, but and everybody else involved

(36:13):
in his daughter, but what he could have been, could
have been a major beacon alike.

Speaker 5 (36:18):
For this this country and this world.

Speaker 4 (36:19):
I think so. I think he was gone too soon.
I think he was. He has such an impact on
so many people and touched so many. Yeah, still to
this day, I see I still.

Speaker 6 (36:30):
See videos pop up of him. I stopped for that
second just to watch it. And it was actually he
went to a game with his daughter and Kevin Hart
was there. He tells, Kevin Hart, can't take a picture
with my daughter. So there's Kobe on the court taking
a picture. But He's just like, yeah, it's it's He's

(36:52):
just very down to earth and very approachable.

Speaker 4 (36:56):
And I think that's why people connected with him.

Speaker 5 (36:59):
You know.

Speaker 1 (36:59):
The thing that I kind of like learned from him too,
was he was an iron sharpens iron guy.

Speaker 5 (37:05):
Right.

Speaker 1 (37:06):
So if I actually sent him to Commander's Palace and
told him, you have to, you know, go check out
this even like the New Orleans and y'all are here yet,
and I sent him there and he was like, yeah,
he tried to turtle soup.

Speaker 5 (37:21):
That was the first time he tried.

Speaker 1 (37:22):
But he's like, but he would come in here and
be like asking you guys a thousand questions about what
makes you great, what makes you a great chef?

Speaker 5 (37:31):
What makes you guys great owners? Like how did you
do it?

Speaker 1 (37:34):
Because he wanted to get better, and so I would
see him like these people would come talk to him
after games, nervous, but they were something something excellent in
whatever they did, and he would flip it and make
it about them because he was trying to gain knowledge
from him.

Speaker 5 (37:52):
And so he was always trying to sharpen his iron.

Speaker 6 (37:56):
That's that's great because it's I think that's a true
gift when you make somebody feel it's about you.

Speaker 4 (38:02):
Yeah, and he has that gift.

Speaker 5 (38:04):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (38:05):
Has there ever been so?

Speaker 5 (38:07):
I don't know. I answer, I don't know.

Speaker 2 (38:09):
It wasn't but I thought that was you just dodging
it and I was gonna let you go. Has there
ever been a story, an idea for a story, a
person that you wanted to write about and you haven't
for whatever reason.

Speaker 5 (38:23):
I would love some time with Michael Jordan.

Speaker 1 (38:26):
It's really hard, Yeah, it's really difficult, and doesn't need
a spotlight, doesn't want the Spotlight. They had All Star
Game in Charlotte, I think twenty nineteen, and he had
an impromptu press conference because he was supposed to have
one the day before all the media arrived, just you know,

(38:46):
the day before we were.

Speaker 5 (38:47):
All flying in.

Speaker 1 (38:49):
Oh, I'm gonna be available at eleven, so we didn't
get to talk to him, like I would love time
with him. I find him pretty fascinating already fascinating what
he went through. I can only imagine if social media
was around at that time, but his level of greatness,

(39:09):
the pressure that he faced to overcome that to like
Kobe embodied a lot.

Speaker 5 (39:14):
Of that too, Like I wish I could. I wish
I could just get a day with him.

Speaker 4 (39:22):
Hey Michael, if you're listening, But there's.

Speaker 5 (39:25):
A long list of people that want that.

Speaker 4 (39:27):
Yeah, now he is.

Speaker 1 (39:28):
He is.

Speaker 4 (39:30):
Captivating.

Speaker 2 (39:31):
How often do you think people like that, like MJ,
like Kobe come along.

Speaker 5 (39:39):
And Lebron steph cur Yeah, but I.

Speaker 2 (39:42):
Mean, who was it before Jordan? I mean doctor j
was well Magic and Larry Yeah, yeah, there was right before.
But I'm saying AA generation ten twelve years before you.

Speaker 5 (39:54):
Had Will Dream, Will kareem Oscar.

Speaker 3 (39:59):
How do we get lucky enough to get who's the next?

Speaker 5 (40:03):
Yes? Or how do you?

Speaker 3 (40:04):
How do you get to be the next?

Speaker 2 (40:06):
Is it? I don't even know? Well, like those guys
are born with it, like something inside of Mike that
he wasn't playing in ninth grade.

Speaker 3 (40:14):
He didn't make a well.

Speaker 1 (40:15):
I think the thing that Steph Curry is so unique
is he didn't have Michael Jordan or Lebron James, or
Wilt Chamberlain's or Shacks or Kobe's physical gifts. He's six ' three.
He ain't catching on Ali you right, not dunking on anybody.
If you kind of look at it, you can make
an argument that Steph Curry pound for pound, is the
greatest basketball player ever. For him to be six three, slight, skinny,

(40:41):
doing what he's doing, oring like crazy, having influenced a
game of basketball. Now where to me the three pointers,
the little man's dunk like like all these kids are
like shooting shots. They shouldn't be taking me out because
of him. I saw when I moved back to the
Beary in two thousand and nine he was a so
we kind of moved back at the same time. There

(41:03):
was no way I would have guessed that he would
have become this. So a lot of times you can't
see the goats when they're babies. They grow into that.
Sometimes you think the goat's gonna be goats and they
end up being a goat, right, Yeah, I mean I
do think the next Like obviously, I think New Orleans

(41:24):
thought Zion was going to be this icon, right, Who knows,
maybe he ends up being that way. Time will tell, right,
maybe if he gets to his health out, we'll have
a lot to do with it.

Speaker 5 (41:35):
But I think like what I.

Speaker 1 (41:36):
Saw from Victor Womangana. I don't know if you're familiar
with him, seven five seven three. I've seen him play
a few times.

Speaker 3 (41:44):
I mean that's he can handle the ball.

Speaker 5 (41:46):
He can. I think he's the next guy that's gonna
like change.

Speaker 2 (41:50):
Is he going to change it in that coaches now
want to put a seven footer at the three or four.

Speaker 1 (41:57):
I just think that the same way Curry influenced smaller
kids to shoot and to get their dribbling skills down,
same way. Now all a sudden're gonna see these guys
coming from Africa. He's seven for athletic guys with skills
and shooting. You see this guy when they come here

(42:19):
you need to go to the game the Pelicans. I'm
telling you, Pelicans, when the Spurs come, you need them
to go to the game.

Speaker 3 (42:25):
We beat them down again.

Speaker 2 (42:27):
I don't care how tall you are, you don't come
to New Orleans.

Speaker 5 (42:30):
Yah, y'all better beat them. You should beat them.

Speaker 1 (42:32):
But when you have to see him, That's what I
tell If you have to see it, forget television. It's
like auto racing. You you can't appreciate auto racing unless
you're there. You can't appreciate your food unless.

Speaker 5 (42:44):
You taste it.

Speaker 1 (42:45):
How many Instagram photos you see, your videos with Victor Womanyon,
you have to You're you're gonna sit there in awe
like this dude is seven foot three, dribbling through his legs,
spinning around three pointers, taking one step outside the basket,
you know, ten feet from the basket and dunking it,

(43:06):
you know, dunking on his tippy toes.

Speaker 5 (43:08):
You have to see it. So I think he's the
next thing, the next.

Speaker 4 (43:13):
Next prediction. We'll keep our eyes out for that. So
you have your show, tell us about it.

Speaker 5 (43:21):
Yeah, show. I'm proud of this show. You know.

Speaker 1 (43:25):
The show is called a Conversations Project. It's on Hulu
came out in August, and I'm a sports writer, always
will be a sports writer. But at ESPN's Ndscape a
couple of years ago, then Boss Rina Kelly, She's like, Hey,
we're gonna have a connection with Hulu.

Speaker 5 (43:45):
If any of you guys have some TV ideas, let
us know. Don't tell me that I don't like you.
Gotta remember that seventh grade boy.

Speaker 1 (43:55):
I ain't that person. He like, don't make a offer
you can't keep right. Yeah, So I'm like, squeaky wheel,
get the oil. All you could say is no. So
me and a friend of mine named Chef David Lawrence
shout out to Chef David, we came up with a
television concept that was actually bringing athletes to vineyards where
I would interview them in the vineyard. I would interview
them in a tasting room, the barrel room, and then

(44:17):
he would bring him into the kitchen, cook a meal
based on them as people, and then we get to
a table and have a big dinner with the food
and the wine they like, and invite some of our
friends to dinner and have a big discussion. So we
did a pilot with Terrence Man from the Clippers, and
they ended up liking the dinner. Who will end up

(44:38):
a landscape like the dinner, so they may decided to
do a dinner all black. Iron Shopping's Iron Dinner show
called The Conversations Project with chef myself and Elaine Walter
Roth who's on Project Runway in teen Vogue, and basically
the concept of the show is we have three courses appetizer,
main course, and the dessert, but they're all topics. We

(44:59):
also show case of black wine. Every show six episodes.
Some amazing guests, some have celebrity names, and then some
are just big time in what they do, which I
like it because it makes you feel like you could
be at the table right. It doesn't feel too hoity toity,
it doesn't feel too elite. And it's a show that

(45:21):
was like Top twenty five.

Speaker 5 (45:24):
Hulu.

Speaker 1 (45:25):
It was a most search television show the first week
it was on Hulu and trying to get a second season,
and it's you know, it's not all the everybody in
the show was black, but I implore everybody to watch it.
And apparently there was a white man who was sixty
five with total producers. I learned more about black people
in six episodes and I've learned my whole life.

Speaker 5 (45:45):
Wow, And so I'm very proud of the show.

Speaker 1 (45:49):
It might have been harder than me making the Hall
of Fame to get that going, but we're shooting for
hopefully a second season. And it was cool, like I
could say I'm executive producer and a host of a
television show and had nothing to do with sports.

Speaker 6 (46:03):
Yes, well, congrats, because I think that is a much
needed show.

Speaker 5 (46:10):
I'm glad you watched it.

Speaker 6 (46:12):
Yes, And it's very instrumental on what we need now
in our day to day because I think a lot
of people, you know, we run restaurants and when you
think about we were talking about black winemakers.

Speaker 4 (46:24):
They're not They're not out there. They exist, but they're
not highlighted. So I think shows like this.

Speaker 6 (46:33):
Gives them, you know, put them in the forefront, which
we need to have more conversations about food and history
and make it more comfortable, not where people like I
don't want to touch that subject, but it all comes
out and they need to air these things out.

Speaker 1 (46:48):
And I think the thing that was important to me
was like I remember as a kid watching The Cosby Show,
and let's separate Bill Cosby, right, let's stay with the
concept for the Cosby Show. One thing I loved about
The Cosby Show, I was like, it's a black doctor
was married to a black lawyer, a female black lawyer,

(47:10):
great family, good kids, got regular American problems, and it
was just a beautiful show. And I just remember the
stories at the time were like it's not possible for
a black doctor to be married to a black female lawyer.

Speaker 5 (47:24):
That's like, I'm like, why can't that be white?

Speaker 1 (47:27):
I me my mom and my dad always introduced me
to very educated, well to do people of all races, right,
and so I just think that there's so much negative
stuff in this world right now, especially towards African Americans,
especially like the programming, and you know, I this was
a reality show, I'd be throwing water on him right now,

(47:51):
knocking the table over, or we're selling drugs or running
guns or like yeah, or just being athletes or entertainers,
like we have brains, right, And I think this show
really shows Black people in a very strong, positive, educated
smart and if you're watching the show, like the conversations

(48:15):
deep now, like don't come sit at the table if
you're not ready for it.

Speaker 6 (48:22):
Again, I think the more that we talk about these things.
The more we exercise it, the more comfortable people will be.
But we need to continue conversation.

Speaker 5 (48:31):
Yeah, so it's.

Speaker 1 (48:35):
You know, if we don't get a second season, I'm
a speaking of existence that we will.

Speaker 5 (48:38):
But I'm very proud of what we did and.

Speaker 1 (48:43):
I hope people see it, and especially like, I want
somebody in West Virginia who's not around black people to
all to watch the show and say, like, oh, they
are really smart, educated black people like this.

Speaker 4 (48:57):
It ain't just like what I'm seeing on stereotypes. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (49:00):
Yeah, And now we're also in fifty five countries internationally
on Disney Plus. So hopefully when I go to Paris
next summer for the Olympics.

Speaker 3 (49:10):
You'll be mobbed.

Speaker 5 (49:12):
I want somebody, you know.

Speaker 1 (49:14):
I haven't got it yet, but I've had people compliment
me on the show, but I want somebody to say
they know me about the show, not from being.

Speaker 2 (49:21):
A sports right, it'll happen. There's something weird about television
when you're going over there for the Olympics.

Speaker 3 (49:29):
What are you covering?

Speaker 1 (49:32):
Or I covered Olympics once two thousand and eight in Beijing,
which was amazing. I haven't got that far yet, you're
coming with a legendary writer for we're both representing ESPN's Ndscape,
which is a site devoted to racing culture in sports.
And Bill Roden, who I don't know if you've heard

(49:53):
of him. He's I call him mister Roden. You yeah, yeah,
So it's like, what does mister Rohodon want to write
a first? Right? But if this is the Olympics is
probably the coolest thing I've ever covered. So I'm like,
as much as I want to do a lot of basketball,
which would be easy, I'd like to stretch a little bit,

(50:14):
you know.

Speaker 2 (50:15):
The Olympics give you that stuff. Yea, Oh my god,
I love four man rowing right for this one afternoon watch.

Speaker 5 (50:22):
Just I just want the good story. You know.

Speaker 1 (50:24):
Last time I got to see Michael Phelps seventh gold
medal out of eight, I got to see Venus and
Serena in the doubles match, waiting to see because I
was with the Globe at the time a tennis player
from Boston play. But before it was Venus and Serena
in doubles, right, just playing with playing around with these

(50:48):
two poor ladies from some Eastern Bloc country or yeah,
we went to it was funny. I had to do
some USA women's volleyball and the men players are always
it just seemed like the Brazilian national team will be
playing before the men's basketball players were at the Brazilian
guy right, women volleyball games, right.

Speaker 5 (51:08):
So it's just it was cool to jump around at
different things.

Speaker 2 (51:12):
When you got your first press pass, yeah, do you
still have it? Even though it was like school, I
don't think it was a past.

Speaker 1 (51:19):
I remember the first event I covered that a three
on three basketball tournament and it was at the time
it was three Warriors legends were there, Chris Mullen, Tim Hardaway, and.

Speaker 5 (51:33):
Metrichmond, who are all in the.

Speaker 1 (51:34):
Hall of Fame now, and Chris Mullen claims that he
remembers me coming up to it asked of a question like,
there's no way you remember I was in college, like
you never know.

Speaker 3 (51:45):
Yeah, but I was like, there's also not a lot
of six.

Speaker 5 (51:48):
Six and I was just really nervous.

Speaker 1 (51:51):
But I was like, I remember that was like the
first like professional event as a professional that I covered. Yeah,
but I do remember the first time I covered the
NBA Finals. It was Lakers Philly and everything in LA
can be sterile at times. But when the when the
series moved to Philly, I remember, like I was trying

(52:13):
to cry during the National ANFL the lights were kind
of dark, and like, dang, I'm covering the NBA Finals,
Like wow, this is this is pretty big. You know,
kind of had a moment, you know, And I never
stopped telling myself I write about basketball for a living,
like and like I get to go to every game.

(52:36):
I'll go to the Pelicans game tomorrow, like come on, man,
like the paint me to write about, Like, well, Mark,
what do you think? Well? How could they fix their problems?
And I'm like, wow, you know, people actually care what
I think. You know, Yeah, it's pretty.

Speaker 2 (52:50):
Cool at with this many we won't say this many years,
this much experience covering the.

Speaker 5 (52:57):
Game, twenty five years coming to the NBA, I'll take
it absolutely. Do you ever I'm still here.

Speaker 2 (53:03):
When when you look at the spheres of influence or
spheres of thought around the league, there are people who
paid a lot of money to say, oh, there's Nina,
We're going to take her with the number one pick.
There's coaches to say I can get Nina that mid
range shrump are working in a year and a half,
and that'll figure intwards. Do you guys sit back and say,

(53:25):
look at these morons taking this pick or running this offense?

Speaker 5 (53:31):
How much excluding how much.

Speaker 2 (53:36):
Of the knowledge of the game becomes with you observing
everything and seeing many different combinations of what of how
I'm going to use this team or this player, or
even from GM level down, why I'm going.

Speaker 5 (53:54):
To take this coach?

Speaker 1 (53:56):
And actually, in ninety seven ninety eight, I covered Major
League baseball for two years. I was at a game,
an Angels game, and I always remember this. There was
a guy who was calling pitches. What I mean by
that is somebody threw a pitch and he'd be like,
that was a screwball, that was a changer, change up,

(54:16):
that was a curve ball, like and I turned to
him and I'm like, how do you know all the pitches?
And he said because I played college baseball.

Speaker 5 (54:26):
And then it dawned on me. I'm like, why am
I covering baseball?

Speaker 1 (54:30):
I played college basketball. I love basketball, like I need
to cover what I'm I know right, And I think
having played, even though I just played on the college level,
having played basketball, I see the game differently than probably
most writers do, like because it's different I've been in
the huddle.

Speaker 5 (54:50):
I fouled somebody before. I know what it feels like
to be in the locker room.

Speaker 1 (54:54):
And so I remember my first couple of years and
Denor Nuggets had a player named Antonio mcdyce, and he said,
I could tell you used to play by the questions
you asked.

Speaker 5 (55:02):
You asked different questions.

Speaker 1 (55:03):
Now, Kobe Bryant also said, you asked doctor Seuss ask
questions to.

Speaker 5 (55:07):
Tell me that. I don't know. I think that was
a compliment.

Speaker 1 (55:12):
I see the game went to Alabama, right, Antonio mcdic, Yeah, yeah,
he has.

Speaker 3 (55:17):
He has no place even making it exact.

Speaker 1 (55:21):
Well, no, that was Kobe, I said, doctor Susan, that's fine,
But no, I went to cover basketball for a reason,
like I knew it, and I kind of watch what
I'm like, I've been told I have a really good eye,
like I predicted Damian Lillard, Clay Thompson, Paul George. I

(55:44):
was telling Victory people about Victim and Bianna before Victim,
you know, yeah, and and even some of the players.

Speaker 5 (55:53):
Now, I'm like, why did they take him so? Why? Right?
He was really good?

Speaker 1 (55:58):
Like they didn't Why didn't they see what I see?
Like there's some rookies playing now or I'm like that
dude was really paying these people a lot of money
to give their opinion and they're making mistakes.

Speaker 2 (56:09):
But uh, well here in town, Jose Alvarado undrafted, Yeah,
comes in Integra.

Speaker 5 (56:14):
I saw him playing college. I thought he was an
interesting player.

Speaker 3 (56:17):
Where did he play?

Speaker 5 (56:18):
Georgia Tech? That's right, that's where you went. Yeah, okay,
I didn't play. Is that why you brought him up?
That's a guy.

Speaker 2 (56:23):
Well, I mean, I'm a Pelicans guy and Georgia Tech
Georgia Tech.

Speaker 5 (56:27):
But it was I gotta I gotta have Marbury come
to the come to see you.

Speaker 3 (56:32):
That would be great.

Speaker 5 (56:33):
He's a character, he's a good guy there.

Speaker 2 (56:36):
We do need to discuss one thing on ESPN. When
he announced that he was going Georgia Tech. There's some
uh names of the school.

Speaker 3 (56:45):
He got a little wrong, but it was all right.
He said g Tech.

Speaker 2 (56:48):
It's a g tech, g Tech g Tech instead that
Georgia Tech. We had never heard g Tech, but.

Speaker 4 (56:55):
We appreciated that that year he gave maybe he's onto something.

Speaker 3 (56:59):
Maybe it didn't stick.

Speaker 1 (57:01):
It's like people coming to the Bay and saying San
Fran like we hate that.

Speaker 2 (57:05):
Yeah, New Orleans.

Speaker 5 (57:08):
What's the New Orleans that's the one. They don't like it?
N Islands's.

Speaker 2 (57:12):
Yeah, I don't know.

Speaker 3 (57:14):
I'm not going to go anywhere near that.

Speaker 2 (57:16):
That's like me telling you that Nina's gumbo is the
best gumbo, but it's only served at our house.

Speaker 4 (57:23):
I like to have some next time, next time. What's
your favorite gumbo?

Speaker 1 (57:29):
Well, my favorite was my aunt Cheryl's, and she's no
longer here. I like seafood gumbo, you know. It's to me,
it's people that can't make gumbo like that think they
can make so gumbos. Anybody is too confident about their
gumbo typically can't make it.

Speaker 5 (57:47):
And I called it marty grass soup. Oh, that's what
I call it.

Speaker 1 (57:52):
I've had so much bad gumbo in my life and
outside of New Orleans. Any restaurant you go to that
serves gumbo, I'll order it just to get mad right.

Speaker 6 (58:01):
It's a tricky thing and if you do it.

Speaker 4 (58:06):
Wrong, they'll let you know.

Speaker 1 (58:08):
Yes, there's a big difference to me between like New
Orleans gumbo and Cajun gumbo, right, Like Cajun was more smoky,
a lot of yeah, and or maybe even more gamey
in some places, but I I love both of them
really yeah.

Speaker 2 (58:27):
If they're made well, I'll I'll take anybody's version. But
it is disappointing when you get all excited and.

Speaker 5 (58:33):
Then it's I don't anymore. But I just order it
just to tell them, like, this is terrible? Are you?

Speaker 2 (58:40):
You are unafraid in a restaurant just to say I
don't like this, this is going back. When's the last
time you sent something back?

Speaker 5 (58:48):
And do it?

Speaker 2 (58:51):
If they don't cook it correctly, I mean everybody makes mistakes.

Speaker 5 (58:56):
What I'll do is if they have gumbo right, I'll say,
you stand behind us?

Speaker 1 (59:06):
Or can I taste it? Could I get a taste
of the gobble first? Like my gumbo palate is really strong.

Speaker 3 (59:13):
Yeah, what's your favorite food city?

Speaker 2 (59:18):
Come on now, I don't know you've lived in some
good ones.

Speaker 5 (59:21):
I think New Orleans is first.

Speaker 1 (59:24):
San Francisco's be arius barious second, And I'm probably people like,
oh yeah, bias, No, I'm not. LA is not a
good food city in my opinion, but there's an La
Bay rivalry that might be part of it.

Speaker 5 (59:41):
I'm trying to think who's third.

Speaker 2 (59:42):
Like to me, that's like one, two and when you travel.
I think New York's three How hard New York is strong?
How hard is it for you when you're not hard?
I mean, this is a wonderful thing.

Speaker 3 (59:54):
To have to decide.

Speaker 2 (59:55):
But say you have your favorite restaurant in New York
but you're only there for two days. Do you go
back to that same restaurant that you love or do
you look and talk around to people?

Speaker 5 (01:00:08):
And my wife is on me about not going to
the same place all the time. But it's tough. But
if I like it, I mean, are how many times
y'all seen me here? A few? I am?

Speaker 6 (01:00:23):
I am a creature of habit because there's so many
times that we travel on And I was like, should
we find somewhere in you?

Speaker 4 (01:00:29):
And I'm like, no, I want to go back to
that Russian that I had a great meal.

Speaker 5 (01:00:32):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:00:33):
I have a pizza place in New York and my
friends was an investor in it. It's called Emmetts.

Speaker 3 (01:00:41):
With that which neighborhood.

Speaker 5 (01:00:45):
I just know the address. I think. I think it's
not far from.

Speaker 1 (01:00:52):
Don't get me lying, but it's in Manhattan, okay, Okay, yeah,
not far from meat packing okay. And it's just.

Speaker 5 (01:01:00):
Good ass pizza, like the way they cook it.

Speaker 1 (01:01:03):
They have the you know, the big ovens and it's
really thin and I like really thin. It's not greasy,
but it has a vibe like your restaurant has a vibe.
It has a vibe and they have great wine there.
So it's like a bougie ass like round table pizza,
right is like Pizza Hut. It's a real pizza place,

(01:01:26):
but it's it's gorgeous.

Speaker 5 (01:01:30):
Yeah. So that's like I tend to That's the only
pizza place I go to in the country.

Speaker 1 (01:01:36):
Yeah, like where I'm not orderant to the house right,
like where I'm actually gonna go in, right, and that's
in New York. So I always tend to go there.
And then Soho House just because Soho House is consistent.

Speaker 6 (01:01:49):
Tell us more about Okay, take us out with three
wines that people have to have a wine makers that Okay,
that are hidden gems that everybody should know.

Speaker 4 (01:02:04):
Let's take us out with that.

Speaker 1 (01:02:06):
First is Jay Moss. It's a black owned it's a NAPA.
It's not a fancy place, just has a tasting room.
It's not a vineyard. But James Moss is from like Dallas, Okay,
and his caps like, you guys, gotta get that on

(01:02:27):
the menu. It's outstanding. I'm a cab person. I think
that's a Bay Area thing. I'm a big cat person.
Verge Osbury associate ID and.

Speaker 5 (01:02:39):
L s U.

Speaker 1 (01:02:40):
He took care of me for some tickets for Texas
A and M. I sent him a Magnum bottle. I
gotta send you guys. One from J Moss.

Speaker 5 (01:02:50):
Another one I love is Marritson. This is I'm gonna
just go all straight. Yes, yes, yes, this is Heals Bird.

Speaker 1 (01:02:57):
So chef David what did the show with? He has
a restaurant called Good Nights in Hillsburg. And so a
friend of mine, Clayed Merits, and he actually played football Oregon.
His family sold grapes forever right in Hillsburg, and he
hated just being in the grape industry, and his dad
told him he had to have a job when he

(01:03:18):
comes home from the summer from school. So he went
and worked from a winery and ended up fall in
love with wine making and he made its own. So
he uses the family grapes to make his wine and
it's called Moritzen.

Speaker 5 (01:03:34):
So that's fantastic. One more that I really really like
you know what I'm gonna say. Frank family.

Speaker 3 (01:03:48):
Do a nice job.

Speaker 5 (01:03:49):
Frank family has a little bit of everything.

Speaker 3 (01:03:53):
We've got a couple of their peanuts.

Speaker 5 (01:03:55):
Yeah, I mean very wine.

Speaker 1 (01:03:56):
I could go on and on, and you know, the
McBride's sisters are starting to do bigger things there.

Speaker 3 (01:04:03):
Daryush, you're getting real fancy. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:04:08):
But there's also I would say, there's a lady named
Miss Theo, not Miss Cleo Leo, and she has another
black wine I want you to get. It's called Theopolis.
She's in Mendocino County. I have not been to Mendocino County.
It's probably like an hour past Napa Valley and she
lives in Oakland, but she bought land in Mendocino County

(01:04:31):
and she has some really good red wine too, mister.

Speaker 4 (01:04:34):
Theopolis, thank you for sharing that.

Speaker 5 (01:04:37):
I think it's sad.

Speaker 1 (01:04:38):
I know all this about wine, right Lovenaissance brother.

Speaker 2 (01:04:43):
It's an important part of a meal to us, the
way it plays with the food.

Speaker 1 (01:04:48):
And can I add one quick thing that I'm late.
I was laid on. I'll give him credit. My brother,
big brother Brand from Marsalis put me on the sons there. Okay,
So I'm not a big white wine fan, but summer
I'm a big If there's a son.

Speaker 4 (01:05:03):
There, holy cool you right off.

Speaker 5 (01:05:08):
He got me onto that and they got of that,
soho house. I always get it there nice.

Speaker 2 (01:05:12):
Don't get it at the Four Seasons and Aspen.

Speaker 3 (01:05:15):
But that's another story. Don't Nina gave me a sticker shock.

Speaker 4 (01:05:21):
Twenty twenty twenty seven. A glass?

Speaker 2 (01:05:27):
Oh that's not it's not too bad except for what
was in that glass.

Speaker 5 (01:05:32):
Oh it wasn't worth it. Okay, all right, Well, thank y'all.

Speaker 3 (01:05:38):
Thanks for having Mark.

Speaker 2 (01:05:40):
Big wait wait, yeah, big wait, big way, big way back.

Speaker 3 (01:06:00):
Everybody left while so wrong, you'll stay upwar